Latest / Jeep Talk Show / She Built Rebelle — Then Can't Race It

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She Built Rebelle — Then Can't Race It · Jeep Talk Show

• 0:00
  Audio, boys and girls, it's time for
• 0:02
  another Jeep Talk Show interview.
• 0:04
  We're going to be talking with Emily.
• 0:06
  Emily Miller built the Rebelle rally.
• 0:08
  Built.
• 0:09
  There was nothing there and she built it
• 0:11
  and she didn't use Legos.
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  Well, she may have.
• 0:13
  We'll find out in the interview.
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  The longest competitive off-road rally in
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  the United States and
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  the first woman's off-road
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  navigation rally in the country.
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  No GPS, no phones, skill over speed.
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  She learned under Rod Hall, raced from
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  Baja to Morocco and was
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  the first woman to solo
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  Vegas to Reno off the course.
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  She runs South Soulside.
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  I want to say Southside Soulside network
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  and has coached
• 0:41
  thousands of drivers and this
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  year picked up the Chicago
• 0:45
  auto show automotive alley.
• 0:47
  Is it Ali?
• 0:48
  A-L-L-Y.
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  Alla.
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  What is it?
• 0:51
  Alla.
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  Alla.
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  Alla Award.
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  She's also on the off-road
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  motorsports hall of fame board.
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  You can find out more about the Rebelle
• 1:00
  rally by going to rebellerally.com.
• 1:03
  Please welcome Emily Miller.
• 1:06
  All right.
• 1:06
  Thanks for having me.
• 1:08
  All right, Emily.
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  I've got to ask this question.
• 1:10
  People expect me to ask it and if I
• 1:13
  don't, they'll be very disappointed.
• 1:15
  All right.
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  So you're on the board of the off-road
• 1:18
  motorsports hall of fame.
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  How does a podcast such as the Jeep talk
• 1:23
  show get on the hall of
• 1:25
  flan, get on the off-road
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  hall of fame?
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  Because I'm thinking
• 1:28
  that'd be pretty good.
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  Ah, get in the off-road hall of fame.
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  Ah, well, first of all, come to the
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  awards gala in Vegas right before SEMA.
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  That's all I'm going to do?
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  That's easy.
• 1:41
  No, come check it out.
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  You know, definitely you've had people on
• 1:46
  this podcast that are
• 1:48
  definitely worthy of
• 1:50
  induction into the hall of fame.
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  And I think you guys should come out and
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  do your podcast live
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  from the induction ceremony.
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  You should think about it.
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  You know, when we get rich and famous,
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  the first part is the
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  difficult part is the rich.
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  It's kind of like
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  getting into the rebel rally.
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  You have to have that rich part.
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  Ah, I don't know that.
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  I can't believe the amount of money that
• 2:11
  people have to come up
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  with to be part of this.
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  It's a big deal for
• 2:15
  them to be involved in it.
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  I think what people don't realize is it's
• 2:19
  about $8,500 a person, but that covers 11
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  days.
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  All your meals, your mechanics, getting
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  fuel to you out into the
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  middle of nowhere, building
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  base camps, multiple base camps, it's
• 2:32
  taking care of your
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  lodging, your permitting.
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  It's just hard to even turn on the
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  lights, you know,
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  insurance wise and permitting wise
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  out in, you know, in the desert.
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  And so we actually, the registration fee
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  does not cover the cost
• 2:45
  of the, all the expenses.
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  And you know, fortunately our partners
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  help us, you know, we want to.
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  I didn't realize this.
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  But when you think about it, it's like,
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  um, we wanted to keep
• 2:56
  it priced in a way, like
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  where do you get a motorsport event where
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  all your costs are
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  covered for 11 days for
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  8,000 person that's competitive and
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  covers so much terrain.
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  So when you think about it, um, you know,
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  a safari, a ski trip, a, you know, a surf
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  trip, um, it's all
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  kind of along those lines.
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  Um, just to be able to race a Baja 1000,
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  which is start to finish,
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  you know, you're covering
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  it in a, um, in an under 36 hour period,
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  um, is much more
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  expensive, much more expensive
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  than a rebel rally.
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  And you're not taking care of a race car.
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  You are competing in a
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  stock manufacturer vehicle.
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  You know, the ones that are sitting in
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  our driveway, you know,
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  you just make sure they're
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  ready to go and you're not, you know,
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  you're not prepping a race truck.
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  So, um, we really, uh, well, it sounds
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  like a lot of money.
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  What we haven't done, we've taken all the
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  expenses that you
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  would take, um, to do an
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  adventure like this, like sorting out
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  where your fuel needs to be.
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  There's no way to carry 48 meals, you
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  know, for 11 days without
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  refrigeration, et cetera.
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  You know, it's, that's really hard to do.
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  Um, so kind of taken all those expenses,
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  getting them together and
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  then spread that cost out.
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  So if you looked at, you know, other, um,
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  rallies that are international in nature,
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  that are multiple days, um, the costs are
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  anywhere from three to
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  10, 15 times as expensive.
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  Um, I want to, uh, I like the G talk show
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  million other ideas,
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  and this isn't really
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  another idea of making
• 4:34
  money, but for saving money.
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  I remember back in junior high, and I
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  still don't know why my
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  English teacher was asking
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  us to do this.
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  Um, but he wanted us to write up if we
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  were living on our own and had to feed
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  ourselves to come up with a, a list of
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  food items for a month to feed ourselves.
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  So I was a big chicken pot pie fan back
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  then, and I knew what the cost was.
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  I think they were 35 cents.
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  So I did, I did a month worth
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  of 35 cent chicken pot pies.
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  Now they're more expensive now, but you
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  could just, they're frozen.
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  All you have to do is keep them frozen
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  and maybe you could even
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  put them on a stick and
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  have like a lollipop, heat them up on the
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  stick and they could just
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  eat it while they're driving.
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  Um, that's saving,
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  that's saving real money.
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  You could, you could do that.
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  And if you want to eat 48 pot pies, um,
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  over the course of it, I
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  think it's kill your teammate.
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  Um, the, the,
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  you're wondering why the you're doing
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  this, this interview now.
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  Factor in this deal.
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  Um, yeah, too funny.
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  Um, but you know, we had a number of
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  people, um, we do gift
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  cards and people say,
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  Hey, look, you know, I don't need another
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  thing in my life at Christmas birthday,
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  whatever, um, you
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  know, buy me a gift card.
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  We've had teams that have literally
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  raised the entire
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  registration fee of just asking
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  for people to give what
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  they can in a gift card.
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  And you know, we, it's a, it's amazing.
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  You know, a lot of people also pay it
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  forward, you know, someone
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  helped them do something great.
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  And then, you know, they pay
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  it forward and help out teams.
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  And, um, a lot of teams get sponsored.
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  Also, um, as a rally, we just, we're
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  looking at the stats and I think we've
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  already hit $44,000 in team registration
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  support from some of our partners and
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  companies that have
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  offered programs, you know,
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  such as, um, you know, uh, X number of
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  dollars for running, you know, product et
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  cetera, but across the
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  board, not just picking one team,
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  but everybody involved in the rally who
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  is doing this thing gets money toward
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  their registration fee.
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  So, um, we've actually proactively worked
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  where we, you know, we don't necessarily
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  see that with a lot of organizations that
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  they're trying to actively help.
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  Um, you know, these competitors, you
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  know, get some sponsorship.
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  Sometimes it just takes a little bit of
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  support to start the snowball effect.
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  Sure. Um, so I can well imagine, uh, that
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  you guys have a lot of women that want to
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  be involved in this.
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  So that, that makes it nice.
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  It gives more people more opportunity to
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  be involved in this.
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  I mean, I would, for me personally, if I
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  was a woman, I was looking at doing this,
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  I would see the cost and it would be very
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  daunting and as it would
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  be for, for many people.
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  So even though it's more expensive to do
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  other things, if you can't
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  afford it, you can't afford it.
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  So it's great that you're doing this type
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  thing to help people live their dream.
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  Yeah. And you get to see things that you
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  just would not otherwise see the course
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  is extremely curated.
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  The challenge is extremely curated.
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  You know, we have a staff of, you know,
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  approximately a hundred people and you
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  know, a few are volunteers because it's
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  really hard to produce.
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  It's really hard to get infrastructure
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  into the middle of nowhere.
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  Um, it's, it's this, uh, incredible, uh,
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  production and really a badge of honor.
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  You know, we've, we've seen, um, we've
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  seen women get raises, promotions, job
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  changes, opportunities, um, opportunities
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  to go compete and be
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  involved in other things that
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  Rebelle was this
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  incredible launch pad from.
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  Really? That's interesting. Wonderful.
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  That's going to make you very happy.
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  Yeah. And actually we have a number of
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  vehicle manufacturers and companies that
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  put in their employees, uh, so that, um,
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  they get that teamwork
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  and leadership experience.
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  In fact, one company said, um, their CTO
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  said, there is not a better, uh, bang for
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  your buck for teamwork and leadership
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  training than the Rebelle rally.
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  Because you will spend much more money in
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  training sessions, conferences, uh,
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  challenges than you do in a
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  10 day period in the Rebelle.
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  Because you immediately see your
• 8:55
  strengths, your weaknesses, how you
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  handle pressure, um, how you handle
• 8:59
  exhaustion, fatigue, problems with your
• 9:02
  teammate, problems with others.
• 9:04
  Um, failure, you know, re-examining what
• 9:08
  you define as failure. So it is this
• 9:10
  incredible, it's an incredible pressure
• 9:12
  cooker, but you're given the opportunity
• 9:16
  to learn so much about yourself because
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  it's a true, it's an endurance event.
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  I would call it more an endurance event
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  than any kind of, you know, motorsport
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  event. Um, it is for sure, you know,
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  testing your resilience and the outcomes
• 9:31
  from it are pretty tremendous.
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  So, um, we, people who do the Rebelle
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  never come back and go, gosh, I wish I
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  never spent that money.
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  They look at it as that was the best
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  investment I've ever made in myself.
• 9:45
  Yeah. No, I don't think I agree.
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  I mean, if you can afford it or you can
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  come up with the money, I think it's a
• 9:51
  great idea because
• 9:52
  it's a, it's a challenge.
• 9:53
  And if you like, uh, going off road and
• 9:55
  doing things and showing skill, not just
• 9:58
  how, how hard you can press the, the go
• 10:00
  fast pedal, uh, then
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  it's, uh, I think it's
• 10:02
  it's, it's right up there with great
• 10:04
  things. And it's neat too, that no
• 10:06
  technology other than the mechanics of
• 10:08
  the vehicle, uh, is, is what this thing's
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  about. No GPS, no phone.
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  Um, so there's a question that I want to
• 10:15
  ask you that I didn't want to jump in
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  there with. I'm just going to do it now.
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  So, uh, remind everybody, how long has
• 10:21
  the Rebelle rally been going on?
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  We're in our 11th year and the next rally
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  is October 7th through 17th.
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  Okay. This sounds like this based on what
• 10:31
  you've said, not any other
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  thing that I've heard before.
• 10:34
  This sounds like a very daunting task.
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  When you were coming up with this, you
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  weren't concerned about there's just no
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  way that this is going to require so many
• 10:45
  people and so much stuff to
• 10:47
  do in the middle of nowhere.
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  Why did you come up with this? I mean,
• 10:51
  it's easy to go. You don't want to be
• 10:52
  neat. I mean, we do it all the time.
• 10:54
  And usually it's guys with beers that are
• 10:56
  coming up with what would be
• 10:58
  neat and it doesn't happen.
• 11:01
  So when you came up with this idea,
• 11:03
  weren't you concerned about how am I
• 11:05
  going to put it together?
• 11:06
  Why didn't you just stop and go back to
• 11:07
  doing something else?
• 11:10
  Well, I, that's a great question. I think
• 11:13
  I asked myself that a lot. Um, you know,
• 11:17
  I did not, I own a production company and
• 11:21
  sports marketing company and
• 11:23
  doing hard productions is my forte. It's
• 11:27
  what I love. It's what I've done for a
• 11:30
  long time. And, but also I had the
• 11:32
  competitive experience and I had seen,
• 11:35
  um, you know, international rallies and
• 11:38
  events and a number of events. I knew
• 11:40
  what I liked. I knew what I didn't like.
• 11:42
  I knew what I liked and didn't like in
• 11:44
  scoring, rally scoring and competition.
• 11:48
  I also knew that I wanted something for a
• 11:49
  stock manufacturer vehicle. And I also
• 11:53
  knew that I wanted it to be a platform
• 11:57
  for women that first of all, I had to be
• 12:00
  a world-class car rally, period
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  world-class car rally.
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  And then I wanted it to be for women or
• 12:07
  something that women would not say no to.
• 12:09
  And at the end of the
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  day, it was kind of funny.
• 12:13
  Um, a person from Jeep said, why don't
• 12:15
  you just make this three days? You know,
• 12:18
  we can bring in media, we can bring in
• 12:20
  employees, we can do these things. It's
• 12:21
  going to be much easier to tackle.
• 12:23
  But I knew that if we just made it small,
• 12:28
  short, it would take a long time for us
• 12:32
  to reach the goal. I knew out of the
• 12:34
  gate, we had to surprise people.
• 12:36
  We had to hit people in the face and over
• 12:39
  the head with it and show them that we
• 12:41
  could do this and that we, you know, this
• 12:45
  was serious, you know,
• 12:46
  to be taken seriously.
• 12:48
  And anything and also what I found is an
• 12:51
  endurance. Anybody can do anything for
• 12:52
  three days. You know, it's about that
• 12:54
  point where, okay, I can do it. It's
• 12:57
  three days. And about the third day,
• 12:59
  you're like, oh my gosh, I want out of
• 13:01
  this. Like, let me out.
• 13:02
  But that's about the moment that you
• 13:04
  start to learn the most about yourself.
• 13:07
  It's when you're fatigued. It's when
• 13:08
  you're, um, you've made a couple of
• 13:11
  mistakes. You want to kill your teammate.
• 13:15
  You know, your, your vehicles kind of
• 13:18
  maybe you've pushed it to the ragged edge
• 13:20
  and that's the moment of truth. And so I
• 13:22
  knew it needed to be long. I knew it
• 13:24
  needed to be longer. And then I also knew
• 13:27
  that people would think of it as like
• 13:28
  that little women's car rally.
• 13:30
  I, you know, we wanted it to be something
• 13:33
  that shocked people and surprised people
• 13:36
  and, and was in the leagues of some of
• 13:39
  the great international car rallies, but
• 13:42
  right here on US soil.
• 13:44
  And we didn't see that, you know, we
• 13:46
  didn't see that happening here. And, you
• 13:48
  know, a number of people told me that
• 13:50
  that couldn't happen. You know, there's
• 13:51
  no way we'd pull it off. And
• 13:53
  so I kind of like a challenge.
• 13:57
  You know, the hardest part was figuring
• 13:59
  out the permitting and the funding of it
• 14:03
  to get it off the ground in a way that
• 14:06
  would main be sustainable
• 14:09
  and it could keep going.
• 14:11
  So it was, you know, it was a challenge,
• 14:13
  but I kind of felt to tell you the truth.
• 14:16
  I felt like there was no other
• 14:17
  alternative. It had to be big. It had to
• 14:19
  be bold. It had to be real raw and tough
• 14:24
  and surprise people just know I don't
• 14:26
  think anything else
• 14:28
  even entered into my mind.
• 14:30
  Okay. So you mentioned the women's side
• 14:32
  of this thing. And I, I
• 14:36
  think that the easy way to go.
• 14:40
  Because that's where the eyeballs
• 14:41
  generally go. And you correct me on any
• 14:43
  of the stuff is my opinion.
• 14:44
  I'll go with the men. Men do crazy stupid
• 14:48
  stuff, which is great for the camera.
• 14:51
  It's it's old gee whiz and
• 14:53
  is amazing to the audience.
• 14:55
  You weren't concerned about going the,
• 14:59
  what I think would be the easy way and
• 15:01
  having men do this or a mixture of men
• 15:03
  and women. I mean, a woman's only thing I
• 15:05
  think is more challenging, especially
• 15:07
  from the standpoint of what we're seeing
• 15:09
  in women's only sports.
• 15:10
  Because they're having a tough time
• 15:13
  getting the eyeballs.
• 15:16
  Well, you know, I wasn't, I really wasn't
• 15:19
  concerned. I wasn't
• 15:20
  here to make another event.
• 15:24
  And there are a lot of really great
• 15:27
  events. There are a lot of great
• 15:28
  opportunities. There are a lot of great
• 15:30
  races. And I just, I didn't want to
• 15:32
  necessarily be a promoter. I was fine to
• 15:34
  be a promoter. You know, and I worked
• 15:36
  hard on the king of the hammers and
• 15:39
  helping build king of
• 15:40
  the hammers with Dave Cole.
• 15:42
  And, you know, I really felt like the
• 15:46
  guys, they're covered. They
• 15:49
  have a lot of great things.
• 15:50
  Oh no, I agree with you. It's, it's neat
• 15:51
  going with another direction and that's a
• 15:53
  good idea, but it's got to be scary from
• 15:56
  the standpoint of
• 15:57
  it's a different formula.
• 16:00
  Yeah, it is a different formula, but it's
• 16:02
  also something that hadn't been really
• 16:03
  done here. And so I, I felt like, you
• 16:07
  know, I didn't want to
• 16:08
  enter a saturated space.
• 16:10
  And also, you know, we're in production
• 16:12
  and sports marketing, you know, we knew
• 16:15
  that there was an opportunity and we knew
• 16:18
  that to us, it wasn't about quantity of
• 16:22
  eyeballs. It was about quality of
• 16:24
  eyeballs. You know, we were not as
• 16:27
  concerned about the masses.
• 16:30
  You know, knowing the rebel and just
• 16:32
  being, you know, it's a cerebral game. It
• 16:36
  is not a race for speed.
• 16:39
  And it's, you know, so how do you portray
• 16:41
  that? Well, there are great stories in
• 16:43
  the rebel. And so it is definitely a
• 16:45
  storytelling event. But in terms of just
• 16:50
  It's a strategy based event. It's very
• 16:53
  much strategy and the strategy is hard.
• 16:55
  And it's become harder. The better that
• 16:58
  everybody's gotten at the game, the
• 17:00
  harder we've made the game.
• 17:01
  And you can still compete as a rookie,
• 17:04
  but I still want it to be challenging for
• 17:06
  the people who've competed every year. So
• 17:08
  how do you do that? And then how do you
• 17:10
  show it to the world in a way that they
• 17:12
  can understand it? They know what's been
• 17:14
  fun for us is that we've seen
• 17:18
  A really great group of people emerge
• 17:21
  that are really into the rebel and
• 17:23
  they're not connected to a team.
• 17:26
  But they understand the strategy. They
• 17:28
  follow the live broadcast. They follow
• 17:30
  the live tracking. They follow the point
• 17:33
  scoring and they are addicted to, you
• 17:38
  know, watching these teams and the
• 17:40
  challenge. And I think a lot of them are
• 17:42
  more adventurers, orienteers.
• 17:46
  You know, it explores. And this year,
• 17:51
  thankfully with technology, we are
• 17:53
  launching a new fan experience so you can
• 17:56
  see strategy boards and you can take the
• 17:58
  data and you can do some things with the
• 18:01
  data and, you know, really
• 18:03
  kind of get behind your teams.
• 18:05
  And, you know, we're going to be
• 18:06
  launching some really cool things with
• 18:08
  Jiffy Lube where you can get behind and
• 18:10
  kind of support your, you know, the teams
• 18:12
  you want to follow. And we have a lot of
• 18:15
  manufacturers who will run the live
• 18:17
  broadcast and have
• 18:18
  the scoring all set up.
• 18:19
  And then they'll be running Slack
• 18:21
  channels on, you know, there's their team
• 18:23
  from their manufacturer, but then who's
• 18:25
  the privateer team that they're rooting
• 18:26
  for, you know, in the background. And so
• 18:29
  it's been really fun because the people
• 18:30
  who are getting into it
• 18:32
  have really gotten into it.
• 18:33
  And so we really felt that it was
• 18:35
  important that we had a quality of fan,
• 18:39
  not just the quantity and that over time,
• 18:42
  we would get better at bringing the game
• 18:46
  to the world, if that makes sense.
• 18:49
  So it was a risk, but I have to tell you,
• 18:54
  you look at our masthead, we are so
• 18:56
  fortunate by the partners
• 18:57
  that believe in the rebel.
• 18:59
  And they have seen it too. You know, we
• 19:02
  have a very, we have a loyal audience. We
• 19:07
  have a committed group of people and they
• 19:10
  are the adventurers. They're the ones who
• 19:12
  are going out and, you know, they're
• 19:13
  taking their kids and
• 19:15
  they're getting them out.
• 19:16
  They're taking their, you know, Jeep
• 19:17
  vehicles on the weekend and they are, you
• 19:20
  know, they're almost, they're kind of
• 19:21
  going back and retracing rebel courses
• 19:24
  and, and, you know, really, it's opened
• 19:27
  up a world of adventure.
• 19:29
  A world of adventure to a lot of people.
• 19:30
  And for that, we're really thankful.
• 19:33
  So, um, okay. Well, you've
• 19:36
  been doing this for 11 years.
• 19:38
  Yeah. Um, what year was it when you got
• 19:42
  to the point where you went, Oh, this is
• 19:43
  going to work. It's going to be okay.
• 19:46
  It's not going to die a horrible death. I
• 19:48
  mean, it's kind of like, I'm putting it
• 19:50
  in podcast terms because like when you
• 19:52
  first start a podcast, you go, who's
• 19:54
  going to listen to me?
• 19:55
  Who cares about anything I have to say,
• 19:57
  you know, you have that imposter syndrome
• 19:59
  and then you, if you stick with it and
• 20:01
  you keep at it and then it improves.
• 20:03
  So this had to have been a concern
• 20:05
  because this wasn't a something that had
• 20:07
  been done before. I
• 20:08
  mean, not exactly like that.
• 20:10
  Yeah, I think there were a few pivotal
• 20:12
  moments. The first one was when we just
• 20:14
  opened up registration and we went, here
• 20:17
  we go. Let's see what happens.
• 20:19
  And I was actually out pre running the
• 20:21
  course and you know, we open it up and
• 20:26
  within about two hours, we had 20 teams
• 20:29
  sign up and you know, every few minutes
• 20:32
  we were getting a registration and I
• 20:34
  went, are you kidding?
• 20:35
  How did you get the word out? How did
• 20:37
  they even know about it?
• 20:39
  Well, it doesn't hurt to own a sports
• 20:43
  marketing company and have a really great
• 20:46
  list of people and media outlets.
• 20:50
  That's cheating. I'm sorry. That's
• 20:52
  cheating. I can't do that.
• 20:54
  A little bit. But we also had, you know,
• 20:56
  I had been training and working with a
• 20:58
  lot of women for a long time. You know, I
• 21:02
  own a driving and navigation school.
• 21:05
  We train, you know, 11, 12, 1300 people a
• 21:08
  year in driving and navigating.
• 21:11
  You know, I, it's been a real mission to
• 21:15
  help women get skill, not just get out
• 21:17
  there and do it, but get skill so they
• 21:20
  can be successful and safe and that this
• 21:23
  whole world, you know, because to me,
• 21:25
  whether you do the rebel or not,
• 21:28
  is not as important as that you go and
• 21:31
  you get really good skill and that the
• 21:34
  world is opened up. I mean, I take
• 21:37
  friends, you know, on these crazy fun
• 21:39
  trips, you know, in Africa, I
• 21:41
  did one to New Zealand, etc.
• 21:43
  And I want them to have the skill and
• 21:46
  then invite them. And we literally go and
• 21:48
  rent a Jeep vehicle, you know, from a,
• 21:50
  you know, from an outlet, whether it's in
• 21:53
  Marrakech or whether it's in, you know,
• 21:55
  Christchurch or wherever.
• 21:58
  And we can go on on an adventure. That's
• 22:00
  very, very important to me. And that is
• 22:01
  very much a mission of the rebel. That's
• 22:04
  not just about the rally.
• 22:06
  And so, but back to your
• 22:08
  question, these moments.
• 22:12
  The first one was when we opened up
• 22:14
  registration and I went, okay, we've got
• 22:18
  something here. You know, we knew we had
• 22:19
  something there. We had worked on it for
• 22:21
  about three years because first of all,
• 22:23
  we had to create a format because how do
• 22:25
  you win a rally if you
• 22:29
  aren't racing for speed?
• 22:31
  You know, what's the competition format?
• 22:33
  It literally took about three years to
• 22:35
  develop that. And then how do you score
• 22:38
  it to where it's not
• 22:38
  manual scoring to where,
• 22:41
  you know, how do you do it safely without
• 22:43
  GPS? You know, they don't have their cell
• 22:46
  phones to call in. Like, how do you
• 22:47
  create all these guardrails, handrails,
• 22:51
  but also really legitimate competition?
• 22:54
  How do you make all that happen? It took
• 22:56
  quite some time and quite a bit of
• 22:58
  investment, personal investment. And I'm
• 23:02
  not a crazy, I'm a risk taker, but not,
• 23:04
  I'm not a crazy risk taker.
• 23:06
  And so, but then the second one was,
• 23:08
  okay, we signed up, you know, we had our
• 23:10
  first rally and then we opened up
• 23:13
  registration for the second rally. And
• 23:15
  then the question is, will they sign up
• 23:17
  again? And they did.
• 23:21
  Was that a fluke? Was
• 23:22
  the last time a fluke?
• 23:24
  It was so interesting because people, we
• 23:27
  had a lot of people say, you know, prove
• 23:31
  to us, we don't think you can make it. I
• 23:34
  mean, we really had some naysayers. We
• 23:35
  don't think you can make it. Okay, great.
• 23:38
  Well, you know, you don't know us. Or you
• 23:42
  haven't, that's fine. You just sit back.
• 23:45
  And it was, it was the hold my beer, you
• 23:48
  know, kind of moment and, and they,
• 23:53
  you know, then the second year happened
• 23:56
  and then people were like, Oh, well fine.
• 23:58
  Well, let's see it again. I'm like, okay,
• 24:00
  well, and then, and then at that point,
• 24:02
  you just kind of count people out a bit.
• 24:04
  You know, and you're like, okay, fine.
• 24:06
  That's okay. And we're here, you know, no
• 24:09
  judgment, you know, no, you know, when
• 24:12
  you want to show up, great. And if it
• 24:14
  doesn't work for you, no problem.
• 24:16
  But I will tell you that those first
• 24:17
  couple of years were tough. The third
• 24:19
  year, the third time that was really
• 24:21
  challenging was COVID.
• 24:23
  Oh yeah.
• 24:24
  That was the moment that I realized we
• 24:27
  had the right format because we didn't
• 24:30
  have spectators. We could live broadcast
• 24:33
  this people could sit home and watch our
• 24:35
  content. And we could we're outdoors. We
• 24:40
  did it. We spent a
• 24:41
  lot of money on testing.
• 24:43
  And we just said, we're going to do
• 24:46
  everything we can to stay alive. Because
• 24:47
  if we have to shut down and then try to
• 24:50
  get going again, I don't know if we're
• 24:52
  going to make it, you know, just because
• 24:55
  of the financial cost, because it costs
• 24:57
  so much to produce the rebel
• 25:01
  that I thought if if if we have to shut
• 25:04
  down, we might not be open in back the
• 25:05
  doors again. So, you know, we've been
• 25:08
  very, very fortunate.
• 25:10
  But I'll tell you, you know,
• 25:13
  it was definitely a risk. And it's gotten
• 25:17
  harder. And you know, our the barrier to
• 25:21
  entry is really just on someone's
• 25:24
  expectation of themselves. A lot of
• 25:26
  people now feel like all the rebels so
• 25:28
  hard. I can't do it anymore. Well, it's
• 25:30
  the same format. It's basically the same
• 25:32
  number of days. It's the same mileage,
• 25:35
  etc. It's just that people have these
• 25:37
  expectations that they want
• 25:38
  to show up in year one and win.
• 25:41
  And because the field has gotten very
• 25:43
  competitive. So now we have a rookie
• 25:45
  ranking. So first, second, third, you
• 25:47
  know, ranking and two classes.
• 25:50
  For people who've never done it before.
• 25:52
  But you've got to start somewhere. And so
• 25:55
  the message is, is that, you know, the
• 25:58
  the barrier to entry is either raising
• 26:02
  the money or, you know, being able to
• 26:05
  You know, save, raise money, you know,
• 26:11
  pay the registration fee, and, and then
• 26:14
  start training. And people think you have
• 26:16
  to do all this specialized training.
• 26:18
  Well, every you can,
• 26:20
  every day you drive to work.
• 26:23
  You can think about what heading and
• 26:25
  what's my distance, what's my direction.
• 26:28
  Every time you drive down the road, you
• 26:29
  can practice navigation, you can turn
• 26:31
  your navigation systems off.
• 26:33
  You can practice good eye placement, you
• 26:36
  know, good seating position in your
• 26:38
  vehicle, you know, you can do all these
• 26:40
  things every day. It
• 26:41
  doesn't take as much as much
• 26:46
  expensive specific people think you can't
• 26:48
  train until you get on the dirt. And we
• 26:50
  say that's not true. You know, you can
• 26:52
  train every day. And so
• 26:54
  that's where we're really at is
• 26:56
  you know, fortunately, we're doing a why
• 26:59
  we rebel roundtable. And there are a lot
• 27:03
  of Jeep owners that are on it on
• 27:05
  Wednesday. And I think we have about 110
• 27:09
  women signed up to listen to the women
• 27:12
  talk about why they do it
• 27:14
  and why they keep coming back.
• 27:16
  Is that is that on the rebel rally.com
• 27:18
  website where they
• 27:19
  can find out about that?
• 27:21
  Yes, and on our social media. And so that
• 27:23
  is definitely worth doing. And also on
• 27:25
  the blog, and you'll be seeing additional
• 27:28
  posts today and tomorrow. Because that's
• 27:31
  really, it's kind of anything, isn't it?
• 27:34
  You know, you just make a decision,
• 27:36
  you're going to do something.
• 27:37
  Yeah.
• 27:38
  And then you just execute, you know, and
• 27:42
  you know, you understand the barriers to
• 27:44
  entry and you understand the things that
• 27:45
  can our existential crisis. And, you
• 27:49
  know, the existential crisis now is is
• 27:52
  permitting insurance and permitting and
• 27:57
  insurance. And if people and if people if
• 28:01
  you keep creating something that people
• 28:04
  want to do, you know,
• 28:06
  that's very, very important.
• 28:08
  That's why we have a different course
• 28:10
  every year and we might go to some of the
• 28:12
  same places. But, you know, the course, a
• 28:17
  lot of things extend from the course and
• 28:19
  then the fairness of the competition. And
• 28:22
  those things are, you know, are are
• 28:25
  foundational elements
• 28:27
  that we do not sacrifice.
• 28:30
  Right.
• 28:31
  Courses everything.
• 28:32
  So I was going to ask you about the well,
• 28:35
  all this asked this one. The other thing
• 28:38
  that would have made scared the hell out
• 28:39
  of me about coming up with this idea
• 28:42
  would have been that magic word you just
• 28:44
  said insurance. It doesn't matter how
• 28:47
  many waivers you have people sign.
• 28:51
  There's still something that can come
• 28:53
  back on you. Was was insurance a concern?
• 28:55
  I mean, you've done this stuff before,
• 28:58
  but I would think just finding the right
• 29:01
  company that would say yes.
• 29:04
  Yeah. And it's, you know, it's really
• 29:05
  tough. We're not a race for speed and we,
• 29:09
  you know, we don't we don't sell alcohol.
• 29:12
  We're not a race for speed. We have very
• 29:15
  good safety protocols.
• 29:18
  And it is hard and it is, you know, the
• 29:22
  the cost of the insurance has quadrupled
• 29:27
  without is without the same, you know,
• 29:29
  levels and if not gone up eight times, it
• 29:34
  is really challenging. And honestly,
• 29:38
  it's an existential threat to everything
• 29:41
  to all events, driving events. And that
• 29:46
  is something that I think we need to be
• 29:47
  talking about as an industry together
• 29:49
  because I know businesses that are
• 29:51
  either, you know, they're either
• 29:53
  underinsured or they're stopping doing
• 29:55
  business because they can't get the
• 29:57
  insurance or at a reasonable rate.
• 29:59
  And so, you know, it is
• 30:03
  a few thousand dollars of every, you
• 30:08
  know, piece of registration goes to an
• 30:10
  insurance policy just to even turn on the
• 30:12
  lights. And it's very challenging. But
• 30:17
  also some of those same insurance
• 30:18
  companies, they insure, you know,
• 30:22
  off-road races. But then they say that
• 30:24
  they want insurance
• 30:25
  because we have camping.
• 30:27
  It's like, well, we're not burning man.
• 30:29
  People are sleeping by like nine o'clock
• 30:30
  at night. You know, they're exhausted.
• 30:33
  You know, and oh, we don't insure
• 30:35
  anything off-road, but they insure big
• 30:39
  off-road races. And, you
• 30:40
  know, it's just bizarre.
• 30:41
  That's the trouble, right? Because it's
• 30:43
  something new. So it's unknown. So
• 30:45
  they're going to be scared of it. They
• 30:47
  know what to expect with other races.
• 30:51
  King of the Hammers, for example. I mean,
• 30:52
  that's wild. If you can get if they can
• 30:54
  insure King of the Hammers,
• 30:56
  why can't they insure something that's a
• 30:58
  skill-based race and not a speed-based
• 31:02
  race? So it doesn't make sense. But yeah,
• 31:05
  so I figured you had a couple of hills
• 31:07
  that you had to climb.
• 31:08
  Yeah, that's a hill we have to climb
• 31:10
  every year. And so, you know, I have
• 31:13
  insurance, but every single year I have
• 31:16
  to go back and insure again. In fact, I
• 31:18
  have calls on Friday.
• 31:19
  I bet you hate getting on the phone and
• 31:21
  going through the same thing.
• 31:22
  A year away, you know, I'm working on
• 31:25
  insurance for, you know, to make sure
• 31:27
  that we can keep operating. And so, you
• 31:30
  know, in some of it's going to be some
• 31:32
  meetings with people who we know love
• 31:34
  off-road and they're in
• 31:36
  the insurance business.
• 31:37
  They only can do what they can do. Yeah,
• 31:39
  they've been instructed about how to do
• 31:41
  things. So yeah, it makes sense. It's
• 31:43
  good to have relationships though. So
• 31:44
  it's good that you have that relationship
• 31:46
  for a prior rate relationship.
• 31:48
  You know, it always comes back to that,
• 31:51
  you know, don't burn britches, have great
• 31:54
  relationships, you know, be true to your
• 31:58
  word, and deliver on what
• 32:00
  you say you're going to do.
• 32:02
  You know, we don't offer the number of
• 32:05
  eyeballs and the number of spectators as
• 32:07
  king of the hammers, but we know what the
• 32:09
  strengths of what we do
• 32:10
  well. I have an incredible team.
• 32:13
  You know, we, most people don't realize
• 32:16
  that it's basically a one to one ratio of
• 32:19
  competitor to staff. And that's what it
• 32:22
  takes to do this. And they have to be
• 32:25
  really good. Not just good, they have to
• 32:27
  be great. And it's, but you do, you have
• 32:32
  to have good relationships.
• 32:34
  You know, it's a, it's a small industry.
• 32:36
  It's really small, even though
• 32:38
  automotive, you know, and people say, Oh,
• 32:41
  what you do is really niche. And I go,
• 32:44
  women driving is niche.
• 32:46
  Okay, well, there are about almost 8
• 32:48
  billion people on the planet. You know,
• 32:51
  half of our population are women driving
• 32:52
  cars, you know, people traveling, you
• 32:56
  know, travel, adventure, automotive, you
• 32:59
  know, women's sports,
• 33:01
  you know, that's the whole
• 33:04
  thing.
• 33:04
  And I think you just mentioned it. You
• 33:06
  navigate anytime that you go anywhere
• 33:08
  you're navigating. So the thing is, and
• 33:12
  it's certainly people of my
• 33:14
  generation. And I think yours.
• 33:17
  We had these things called maps, or we
• 33:20
  had these things where we had to pull
• 33:21
  over and ask questions about getting
• 33:24
  directions to go places. Can't do that in
• 33:26
  the rebel rally, but you certainly can
• 33:28
  use a paper map and using a paper map and
• 33:32
  just figure it out where you are.
• 33:33
  It's not the mall. They don't have a, you
• 33:35
  are here, uh, sticker on the, on the map
• 33:37
  you're looking at. So you got to figure
• 33:38
  out where you are and look around. It's,
• 33:41
  it's a wonderful thing to know how to
• 33:43
  navigate. Because if you know how to
• 33:45
  navigate, even if you don't have a map,
• 33:48
  if you know how to navigate, you can make
• 33:51
  it to safety or to help or whatever.
• 33:55
  So I can well imagine when you're
• 33:56
  training people that navigate, it's very
• 34:00
  freeing. It's very a confidence builder
• 34:02
  because it's like, that wasn't that
• 34:05
  difficult. There's stars, there's
• 34:06
  mountains, there's landmarks that I can
• 34:08
  use about where I need to go.
• 34:12
  So, uh, this is something that I think,
• 34:14
  and I'm sure you have all kinds of ages,
• 34:17
  uh, involved in this, but I can well
• 34:20
  imagine that people that are used to GPS
• 34:22
  and not a compass and the other things,
• 34:25
  the manual way of
• 34:26
  navigating, they're blown away.
• 34:29
  Like this really isn't difficult and it's
• 34:32
  very freeing knowing that you don't have
• 34:34
  to have a billion dollars worth of
• 34:36
  equipment to be able to navigate.
• 34:39
  Oh yeah. And it's, it's, it's perfect
• 34:43
  timing, you know, because GPS is
• 34:47
  something that we deal with every day
• 34:49
  now, you know, it wasn't even invented,
• 34:53
  you know, and widely used when we were
• 34:55
  young and now it's everything.
• 34:57
  You know, most people don't know what the
• 34:59
  blue dot on the screen is like how the
• 35:02
  blue dot on the screen get there, you
• 35:03
  know, they don't understand it's a series
• 35:06
  of numbers and symbols.
• 35:10
  And that there are multiple formats that
• 35:12
  that blue dot can be. And what I like
• 35:14
  about the rebel is that
• 35:16
  it is the foundational.
• 35:19
  Um, information for what GPS is built on
• 35:23
  top of and that if you understand if, you
• 35:28
  know, rebels who understand and the
• 35:30
  people who do our training understand
• 35:31
  that foundational information, they're
• 35:33
  going to be that much more effective with
• 35:35
  the GPS that they use.
• 35:36
  And that they can do amazing things with
• 35:39
  the tech and be, um, you know, also
• 35:41
  safer, more effective, more efficient in
• 35:44
  their travel. And if they don't have it,
• 35:46
  then that GPS is a crutch.
• 35:49
  And it's just like anything. It's like,
• 35:50
  you know, it's like AI or whatever. If
• 35:53
  you are an expert at what you do and then
• 35:55
  you can apply great
• 35:57
  technology, technology tools.
• 35:59
  Um, it's the same in a car, you know, we
• 36:02
  have a saying, you know, technique before
• 36:04
  technology. If you have great throttle
• 36:07
  control, great eye placement and great
• 36:10
  line choice, then you aren't relying for
• 36:15
  all the bells and whistles on your car.
• 36:17
  And that people need to have those skills
• 36:20
  and then understand what the technology
• 36:22
  is doing for them and how it helps them.
• 36:25
  But you know what, what it's trying to
• 36:27
  fix if they don't have, you know, those
• 36:30
  skills of, you know,
• 36:31
  great pedal control, etc.
• 36:33
  So it's the same thing, whether it's GPS
• 36:36
  or whether it's the tools in your
• 36:37
  vehicle. So, um, right now, what's
• 36:40
  interesting is we have had young people
• 36:43
  who've now come to class and they've
• 36:44
  never held a map in their hand.
• 36:46
  They've never seen, they've heard about,
• 36:50
  which is pretty cool is they don't have a
• 36:55
  hard time with the mapping. And I think
• 36:58
  the reason why they
• 36:59
  pick it up very quickly.
• 37:01
  Um, they're able to understand what we're
• 37:03
  talking about because they actually use
• 37:05
  maps all the time. Think about it. When
• 37:07
  we were young, you had like a Thomas
• 37:09
  guide or, you know, or maybe you're out
• 37:11
  there and you have a Delorean map guide
• 37:13
  or whatever, but you'd
• 37:14
  only looked at it so much.
• 37:16
  People look at maps now every single day.
• 37:19
  So, and not just every day, they're kind
• 37:22
  of like looking at it all day, every day.
• 37:24
  And if they don't just turn their brain
• 37:26
  off and just hit directions and just
• 37:28
  listen to a voice, they
• 37:30
  actually are used to using it.
• 37:31
  So we tell people take your Google, you
• 37:34
  know, take your Google maps and go up
• 37:36
  into your sandwich menu and turn it to
• 37:38
  terrain. And then it actually looks just
• 37:41
  like a USGS topo map.
• 37:43
  So instead of looking like a satellite,
• 37:45
  which is a bird's eye view flat, you
• 37:48
  know, you have all this terrain and you
• 37:50
  can translate, you know, this digital
• 37:53
  information to where you are on the map
• 37:56
  to actually, you know, a paper map.
• 37:59
  And so, um, I think that's the goal is
• 38:01
  that we make people better at all the
• 38:04
  navigation skills and you're right, you
• 38:06
  know, you can use land formations, etc.
• 38:09
  But people can use like,
• 38:11
  how long have I been driving?
• 38:13
  Oh, I've been driving about 30 minutes.
• 38:15
  Well, which direction have you been
• 38:16
  going? Well, the sun's there. I've been,
• 38:18
  so I'm going north, you know, and I've,
• 38:21
  I've been going about 60 miles per hour.
• 38:24
  Well, you can figure out, you can reduce,
• 38:28
  you know, the bullseye of where you are
• 38:31
  without ever even having a map.
• 38:33
  And we've lost touch
• 38:35
  with those skills, you know,
• 38:36
  Special awareness, knowing
• 38:37
  where you are, approximately.
• 38:40
  Well, and it's great because right now,
• 38:42
  you know, you're seeing these articles
• 38:43
  that talk about, you know, taxi drivers
• 38:45
  in New York City that have to think
• 38:47
  spatially, you know, have a lower rate of
• 38:49
  dementia, you know, like
• 38:51
  there's there this spatial.
• 38:55
  Awareness is something that's really
• 38:57
  built into us. And hopefully we don't
• 39:00
  just step away from that and let the
• 39:02
  computer do everything.
• 39:04
  But I mean, I have a question for you.
• 39:07
  How much, how much do you still keep a
• 39:09
  paper map with you when
• 39:10
  you're out on the trail?
• 39:12
  Nope. Yeah.
• 39:15
  I got in trouble once out on Moab, I got
• 39:18
  stuck on a mountain and I was trying to
• 39:20
  use Google Maps and there was no service.
• 39:24
  I was I was able to talk on the GMRS and
• 39:27
  the other Jeep talk show people that were
• 39:29
  out there were worried for me.
• 39:30
  And I figured the worst that could happen
• 39:32
  is I mean, I'm not coming down off this
• 39:34
  mountain in the dark.
• 39:35
  It's hard enough to see the trail anyway.
• 39:37
  I was just going to stay
• 39:38
  there until it was, you know,
• 39:41
  warning and then I would make it back to
• 39:43
  camp or make it back to Moab. But yeah,
• 39:46
  they were giving me a really hard time
• 39:47
  about not having a paper map.
• 39:49
  But so I still don't have a paper map.
• 39:52
  But downloading online
• 39:53
  maps, you know, at a minimum.
• 39:55
  Yeah, that was exactly the thing is that
• 39:59
  I didn't know that I could have the map
• 40:01
  downloaded and that would happen.
• 40:02
  I still don't think there was any trails
• 40:04
  on that mountain that I would trust.
• 40:06
  And the the whenever I got to free fall,
• 40:09
  it'd be like, oh,
• 40:09
  that was the wrong turn.
• 40:12
  But it was an
• 40:13
  adventure. So it was really neat.
• 40:14
  Yeah, I think that's I think that's the
• 40:19
  lesson is that everybody needs the backup
• 40:21
  in case the tech fails.
• 40:23
  And the best backup is just ourselves
• 40:25
  anyway, you know, which is, you know, I
• 40:27
  tell people like make a mental map, you
• 40:29
  know, when you go out the door and you
• 40:30
  leave, you know, let's say you leave
• 40:32
  Moab, be kind of tracking which
• 40:35
  directions you've turned
• 40:37
  about how far on, you know.
• 40:39
  And that was that was metal masher.
• 40:40
  I just realized that was metal masher and
• 40:42
  shout out to Quadratec because I ran into
• 40:45
  a Quadratec vehicle and
• 40:46
  then they knew how to get back.
• 40:47
  So I followed them anyway.
• 40:49
  I just I don't want to leave anybody in
• 40:51
  the panic. I'm not still
• 40:52
  up there. So it's all right.
• 40:54
  Yeah, it worked out, unfortunately. Yeah.
• 40:58
  Yeah, it really is.
• 41:02
  All right. So this has
• 41:04
  really been a fun conversation.
• 41:05
  I've absolutely asked you no questions
• 41:07
  that are researched, but the screw that
• 41:09
  it's more about the conversation.
• 41:12
  When is the next rebel rally?
• 41:15
  OK, it's October 7th through the 17th. So
• 41:17
  I literally when when we shut down today,
• 41:23
  I'm going to walk out the door and I'm
• 41:24
  headed out to parts unknown that I can't
• 41:26
  say because it's a confidential course.
• 41:29
  And, you know, there's been a lot of rain
• 41:30
  in the desert recently.
• 41:32
  It's kind of monsoon season.
• 41:34
  So I'm going to go back out and check
• 41:35
  locations and make sure everything's OK.
• 41:39
  And yeah, it's we're down to the wire.
• 41:43
  It's the 15th of September.
• 41:45
  Hard to believe. And within what, 32
• 41:48
  days, the rebel rally
• 41:49
  will be on its final day.
• 41:51
  When when do you start getting nervous
• 41:53
  about the event or is it continuous?
• 41:56
  It's continuous.
• 41:58
  It is for sure continuous.
• 42:00
  And I lie awake in bed at night.
• 42:03
  And I one of the things that I do is
• 42:06
  it's, you know, the rebel, we
• 42:07
  call it a moving chess game.
• 42:10
  You know, it's not a race for speed, but
• 42:11
  it is about efficiency.
• 42:12
  It's about good
• 42:13
  decisions about not wasting time.
• 42:16
  You know, you can't waste time out there.
• 42:19
  And I lie awake in bed.
• 42:23
  Designing the course and thinking about.
• 42:26
  Boy, if I don't place a checkpoint here,
• 42:29
  they could drive down
• 42:30
  this one trail and it's going
• 42:31
  to get them into trouble.
• 42:32
  So how do I, you know, make sure every
• 42:35
  trail has been thought about?
• 42:37
  That the that the challenge is is is
• 42:40
  great for the really
• 42:41
  good competitors and doable,
• 42:43
  you know, achievable for the rookies.
• 42:46
  So that starts.
• 42:48
  In January.
• 42:51
  The previous year.
• 42:52
  So I've already been in my mind planning
• 42:56
  the 2027 rally course.
• 43:00
  We're on 2026 and that's usually a 15
• 43:03
  month process of kind of
• 43:06
  pre-designing the route
• 43:09
  in my mind where the base camps will be.
• 43:12
  And then Jimmy Lewis and I and Jimmy's
• 43:14
  legend, our course
• 43:17
  director, he and I then start.
• 43:19
  He tells me what he wants, you know,
• 43:22
  because you want to keep you
• 43:23
  want to keep Jimmy inspired
• 43:25
  by the course.
• 43:26
  So he's going to have
• 43:27
  like I want Jimmy happy.
• 43:30
  Keep me happy.
• 43:30
  Yes.
• 43:31
  Keep Jimmy happy.
• 43:32
  Keep Chrissy happy on the scoring side,
• 43:34
  on the competition component side.
• 43:37
  And we start doing that, you know, early
• 43:39
  on and really thinking about that.
• 43:41
  And January, full scale, full
• 43:44
  court press in February, March.
• 43:47
  And then I start lying awake in bed.
• 43:53
  I would say July 15th.
• 43:59
  Yeah.
• 43:59
  So, but you're enjoying this, right?
• 44:02
  I mean, you're seeing
• 44:03
  quite a bit of success.
• 44:04
  You're getting people out there.
• 44:05
  They're still signing up.
• 44:06
  So you have to be very proud of what
• 44:08
  you've accomplished, you and your team.
• 44:10
  Yeah.
• 44:11
  And, you know, people tell me, oh, you
• 44:12
  shouldn't be out designing the course.
• 44:14
  You know, you should
• 44:14
  let somebody else do that.
• 44:15
  Like I'm like, I love the game.
• 44:19
  You know, I love thinking about, oh gosh,
• 44:21
  after they do this section, you know,
• 44:23
  it's really tough driving.
• 44:25
  The driver needs a break and needs some
• 44:27
  really just fun driving.
• 44:28
  And the navigator here, it's been really
• 44:30
  hard navigationally.
• 44:32
  Now the navigator
• 44:33
  just needs a brain break.
• 44:34
  You know, now their car,
• 44:35
  everybody needs a break.
• 44:37
  They they've got to get on some pavement,
• 44:38
  get down the road, you know, like
• 44:40
  designing that course.
• 44:42
  If if I were just dealing with insurance
• 44:45
  and funding and, you know, and policy,
• 44:50
  I wouldn't do this.
• 44:52
  You know, that it is so fun to design a
• 44:56
  course and it all is so fun to go.
• 44:59
  I'm going to put a blue checkpoint right
• 45:01
  here, because they're going
• 45:02
  to have to get out of their
• 45:03
  car and they're going to have to look at
• 45:05
  this epic reveal on
• 45:07
  this huge mountain pass.
• 45:09
  And they're not going to see anyone else
• 45:12
  except for a rebel
• 45:13
  competitor for two days.
• 45:15
  And they're going to come up to this pass
• 45:17
  and their mind is going to be blown.
• 45:20
  I mean, that gets me fired up.
• 45:23
  Like I, I am not done.
• 45:26
  You know, I am.
• 45:27
  I like saying here on the show that
• 45:29
  having a Jeep is like having superpowers
• 45:33
  because you can go places
• 45:36
  that nobody else can go and you can see
• 45:39
  things that nobody else can
• 45:41
  see unless they have a way
• 45:42
  of getting out there or
• 45:43
  being flown out there.
• 45:44
  So and it's very much the the trip.
• 45:48
  It's not just these
• 45:49
  spots that you look and see.
• 45:51
  It's how you got there, what you went
• 45:53
  through to get there.
• 45:54
  So all this, this is one of the reasons
• 45:57
  why I think a lot of people don't
• 45:58
  understand off-roading.
• 45:59
  It's not just about, you know, having a
• 46:01
  bumpy ride and doing dangerous things.
• 46:04
  It's not overly
• 46:05
  dangerous, but it is dangerous.
• 46:06
  So it's the adventure.
• 46:08
  And I did want to ask you about this
• 46:10
  because I thought about this earlier.
• 46:12
  You have you've created this event.
• 46:14
  It's a very successful event.
• 46:16
  It's doing very well.
• 46:18
  But you're a competitor
• 46:19
  and you're not competing.
• 46:22
  You're you're doing
• 46:24
  this without competing.
• 46:26
  Does that bother you?
• 46:27
  I mean, you get to go and
• 46:28
  you create and do things.
• 46:29
  That's that's one aspect of it, but
• 46:31
  you're not competing.
• 46:32
  Does that just really bother you that
• 46:34
  you're not a competitor?
• 46:37
  Yes, Christy and I say we created the
• 46:40
  rally we wanted to compete in.
• 46:42
  We can't do it.
• 46:43
  Yeah, it actually does a little bit.
• 46:47
  When I did it in 2019, I went over and
• 46:50
  competed in the Carta
• 46:52
  rally in Morocco, which I love.
• 46:55
  And I just needed, you know, I didn't
• 46:56
  really even tell anybody.
• 46:57
  I took one of our interns who is a great,
• 47:01
  you know, young engineer and I trained
• 47:04
  her how to navigate.
• 47:06
  And we went and did this, you know, seven
• 47:09
  day, you know, kind
• 47:11
  of super remote rally.
• 47:13
  And it was just it was
• 47:14
  just what I needed, you know.
• 47:16
  And I have to tell you
• 47:17
  that I'm in that mode again.
• 47:19
  I really need it.
• 47:21
  I think it keeps my brain a little
• 47:23
  settled and it kind of
• 47:24
  feeds that competitive drive.
• 47:26
  But what I've done a number of years is
• 47:29
  I've I've kind of planned
• 47:30
  some kind of mini expeditions
• 47:33
  and I've kind of taken a, you know,
• 47:35
  select group of people
• 47:36
  that I know that I can trust
• 47:37
  and that they're safe.
• 47:38
  And I've kind of planned this kind of fun
• 47:42
  international route.
• 47:44
  And so that helps me.
• 47:46
  But the competition side I like because
• 47:49
  it really tells me how well
• 47:53
  I've prepared for something.
• 47:54
  I think competing helps you when you're
• 47:57
  designing of this event
• 48:00
  because you see things,
• 48:01
  maybe things that you've forgotten, you
• 48:03
  can see things that this is
• 48:04
  all this will make this better
• 48:06
  because I learned this myself firsthand.
• 48:09
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 48:09
  Don't mind the loud train going by.
• 48:12
  You probably heard that.
• 48:14
  Okay, good.
• 48:16
  Yeah, it's really important because you
• 48:19
  need to know what it
• 48:20
  feels like to be a competitor.
• 48:21
  And there's one day on the rally this
• 48:23
  year that our course
• 48:24
  director designed that was very
• 48:26
  interesting and it's really good.
• 48:27
  And we had kind of incorporated some of
• 48:29
  those pieces into I
• 48:30
  started a road rally called
• 48:32
  Trinity Road Rally.
• 48:34
  And it's a four day rally and then it
• 48:36
  it's incredible driving
• 48:38
  and but it also always ends
• 48:39
  on a famous track.
• 48:41
  And we incorporated it there.
• 48:43
  But Jimmy made me go out and run this day
• 48:47
  of the rally and it's long
• 48:49
  and do it as a competitor.
• 48:51
  With no information.
• 48:53
  And it had so much fun.
• 48:55
  And it you know, we try to do that with
• 48:58
  each other and do it in
• 49:00
  a way that we understand
• 49:01
  what that challenge
• 49:02
  is going to feel like.
• 49:03
  So you know, when people, you know,
• 49:06
  think, oh, well, we just
• 49:07
  set these GPS points from,
• 49:09
  you know, from the sky from Google Earth.
• 49:11
  Well, no, I drove to every one of them.
• 49:14
  You know, I time myself, I, you know, ran
• 49:17
  in two wheel drive, I, you know, like,
• 49:19
  I looked at the different scenarios, but
• 49:21
  there's nothing like competing.
• 49:24
  I'm pretty excited because Nora rally,
• 49:27
  not Nora Sonora rally,
• 49:29
  just announced that they're
• 49:30
  going to do a three day format.
• 49:31
  And I think they're going to do some
• 49:33
  things that allow more stock vehicles.
• 49:36
  So that's down in the
• 49:37
  Sonora desert in Mexico.
• 49:39
  I'm pretty excited
• 49:40
  that they're doing that.
• 49:42
  But don't be surprised if in the next
• 49:46
  year, year and a half,
• 49:50
  I like send you a little note and say,
• 49:52
  okay, here's where I'm headed.
• 49:56
  Little dose of competition.
• 49:58
  Oh, very nice.
• 49:59
  All right.
• 49:59
  So we have to wrap up.
• 50:01
  I'm sorry to say very
• 50:02
  interesting conversation.
• 50:04
  But the I've got two things left for you.
• 50:06
  One is, what are you
• 50:08
  going to be driving today?
• 50:10
  I'm actually going to be in someone
• 50:12
  else's Toyota Tacoma.
• 50:14
  That's the only correct answer was Jeep.
• 50:21
  Chaos fabrication is a suspension partner
• 50:25
  and along with, you know,
• 50:26
  Bill Stein is a
• 50:27
  suspension partner as well.
• 50:29
  So I'm going out and meeting somebody
• 50:32
  that I absolutely trust in Dunes.
• 50:34
  So we're going to run
• 50:35
  the Dune course today.
• 50:37
  Hopefully, I think this is I don't know
• 50:38
  when this is airing.
• 50:39
  So nobody's finding anything out to say.
• 50:42
  Yeah.
• 50:44
  So that's what I'm going to be in.
• 50:46
  But I can tell you that, you know, in
• 50:49
  fact, when we started
• 50:51
  when I started the rally,
• 50:53
  Rod Hall and I, I used to rent a fleet of
• 50:56
  Jeep vehicles, Jeep Wranglers for a the
• 51:02
  light truck tire program.
• 51:04
  And we had them, you know, like between
• 51:06
  14 plus weeks out of the year.
• 51:08
  And Rod and I would take off and we would
• 51:13
  just drive these stock
• 51:15
  rented Wranglers to run the
• 51:17
  course. And that was the whole point was
• 51:20
  that I wanted someone to
• 51:21
  be able to take a stock
• 51:23
  unmodified Jeep Wrangler and be able to
• 51:26
  be very successful on this course.
• 51:29
  And that was, you know, it literally
• 51:31
  rented Jeeps were how I set this course.
• 51:35
  And repeatedly, we say repeatedly, you do
• 51:37
  not have to modify a Jeep.
• 51:39
  The only thing that I would recommend is
• 51:40
  some sort of rock slider
• 51:42
  because you don't want to
• 51:42
  take damage on the rockers or the bottom
• 51:44
  of the doors. But other
• 51:45
  than that, just take them out
• 51:46
  there and run. So did Avis know you were
• 51:48
  taking these things off road?
• 51:52
  Actually, they did. And we had a
• 51:54
  enterprise and they were
• 51:56
  fantastic to work with.
• 51:57
  Oh, that's good.
• 51:58
  They knew, but we were good customers.
• 52:01
  But, you know, we I was
• 52:02
  sitting around a campfire.
• 52:03
  There's probably some things that are
• 52:05
  nice to close on. I was
• 52:06
  sitting around a campfire
• 52:07
  with a number of experts. And it was last
• 52:13
  year. And I said, Okay, if
• 52:15
  you were going to pick one
• 52:16
  vehicle that you were going to buy from a
• 52:20
  dealer, not overly modern,
• 52:22
  you know, not a very special
• 52:24
  addition because you needed it to be a do
• 52:28
  all, be all your
• 52:30
  expedition vehicle, like no mods.
• 52:34
  What would it be? And every single person
• 52:37
  sitting around that
• 52:37
  campfire said a Jeep Rubicon.
• 52:42
  Jeep Rubicon. Yeah, yeah. I can see why
• 52:46
  Ford's trying to copy
• 52:47
  him with the Bronco.
• 52:49
  God bless them. All right. So let's wrap
• 52:51
  up with this. You know how
• 52:53
  the kids love the social media.
• 52:54
  We've mentioned rebel rally.com. Where
• 52:56
  else can they follow
• 52:57
  you guys or you personally
• 52:59
  on the social media stuff? Yeah, well,
• 53:02
  rebel rally.com on everything. So on
• 53:06
  Instagram, Facebook,
• 53:09
  also on YouTube. And I would subscribe to
• 53:11
  our YouTube because we
• 53:12
  will have a live broadcast
• 53:15
  starting on the live broadcast will start
• 53:17
  on October 8. And we
• 53:20
  will also have a first show
• 53:21
  that will set up and really explain the
• 53:24
  rebel how to watch it the
• 53:26
  format all the information.
• 53:28
  If you sign up on YouTube, anytime we go
• 53:31
  live, it will send you a
• 53:32
  notification that we are live.
• 53:34
  I would also tell people to sign up for
• 53:36
  our newsletter because we
• 53:38
  have great opportunities
• 53:40
  from our partners. We have the rebel
• 53:42
  ultimate giveaway, which is
• 53:43
  great. I mean, talk about,
• 53:45
  you know, the ability to win great items.
• 53:49
  And, uh, oh, maybe coming
• 53:52
  soon could be TikTok, but
• 53:55
  to be announced, but it will always be
• 53:58
  rally. We're of the age
• 53:59
  where we have to call it TikTok.
• 54:01
  That way it shows that we don't know what
• 54:03
  the hell we're talking about.
• 54:05
  Totally. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And then I'm
• 54:10
  out on Emily off road.
• 54:11
  Um, and you know, the, um,
• 54:15
  I don't post all the time because, you
• 54:17
  know, it's secret where I go, you know,
• 54:20
  I, and so many days,
• 54:22
  um, off road, you know, I, I just a
• 54:25
  tremendous number of days
• 54:26
  and it's kind of fun because I
• 54:28
  don't get to tell anybody where I am. Um,
• 54:30
  or you might see me post
• 54:31
  pictures of like rocks and trees
• 54:33
  and clouds and then everybody goes into
• 54:36
  guessing, you know, like, where's the
• 54:37
  course going? So yeah.
• 54:40
  I'm sorry. Uh, I know we need to go cause
• 54:43
  you have a hard time out.
• 54:44
  Uh, it was so much fun talking
• 54:45
  to you. We'll have to get you back on
• 54:46
  again. It doesn't have to
• 54:47
  be six months. It could be
• 54:48
  whenever you feel like coming on. Cause
• 54:50
  we do an interview. Uh, we post an
• 54:52
  interview every week. So
• 54:53
  love to have you back on. All right. Hey,
• 54:56
  thanks so much. Thank you.
• 54:58
  Be out there. Come visit us.
• 55:01
  You're my friend. You're my new friend.
• 55:04
  The other thing, uh, I was
• 55:05
  going to talk about is the
• 55:07
  Hummers along the line of what the is
• 55:11
  wrong with you. Hummers are
• 55:14
  crap. I'm not going to say this
• 55:16
  on the show, but it's like the, the, the
• 55:18
  original military Hummer
• 55:20
  good vehicle. Nice off road.
• 55:22
  H two H three look cool. They are not off
• 55:26
  road vehicles. And I want to
• 55:29
  disagree about the H three. I thought the
• 55:32
  H three, you know, it was built like on a
• 55:33
  Colorado platform, but that H three was
• 55:36
  really, what was good
• 55:38
  about it is it was very durable
• 55:39
  and it was nimble and it was an inline
• 55:42
  five. So it actually had a,
• 55:44
  you know, it was heavy vehicle,
• 55:45
  but not as heavy as some vehicles now,
• 55:47
  but it actually, what we
• 55:49
  found was so good about it.
• 55:51
  Very durable. And, um, okay. So I'm going
• 55:55
  to, I don't want to, I
• 55:56
  don't want to lose, lose this
• 55:58
  conversation. So I want to stop right
• 55:59
  there. So I'll go ahead and
• 56:00
  ask you about that, but I want
• 56:01
  to give you a heads up. Actually talk.com
• 56:04
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• 56:06
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• 56:07
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• 56:11
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• 56:13
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• 56:15
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• 56:16
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• 56:18
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• 56:20
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• 56:22
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• 56:23
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• 56:25
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• 56:27
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• 56:29
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• 56:31
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• 56:33
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• 56:35
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• 56:41
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• 56:43
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