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The Science of Skin Summit Series: A Breakthrough Ingredient for Skin Lightening · The Science of Skin

• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, I'm Dr.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: Patty Ferris.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a board certified dermatologist, and I'm here with my co-host, Dr.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: Ted Lane.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: And this episode of Skin Care Confidentials being brought to you live from the Science of Skin Summit.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: We're really excited today to be speaking about a brand new technology for treating hyperpigmentation from Biersdorf.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: So, Ted, welcome.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm super excited about being here live at the summit and being able to discuss things that are going to be happening right here on site.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's exactly right.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: We get the opportunity at the summit where the future of skin surfaces to talk about the present and also the future.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: And what better brand than Buyer's Door to kind of embody that, right?
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I love this launch for them because, you know, we know treating hyperpigmentation is the bane of the dermatologist's existence.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's a very difficult problem.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: And as we lost 2% hydroquinone in the OTC marketplace, there was a void there that a lot of consumers had picked up products with HQ in it.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: We also, as dermatologists, as you know, are moving away from hydroquinone for all the reasons that everybody's familiar with.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: So this is, I think, one of the most exciting launches in skincare, certainly within the last several years.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my goodness.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely the most innovative and sorely needed, as you say.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: There was a there was a retrospective study on charts that was done by actually, she was a resident in Galveston a couple of years ago.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: And she looked at these, you know, millions of charts from insurance data, and she only looked at whether patients were prescribed hydroquinone or not.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: And those that were prescribed hydroquinone had a higher incidence of non-melanoma skin cancer and melanoma than those that were not.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: Now, certainly, this is a binary decision, right?
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: And there's obviously going to be a lot more factors involved, but it absolutely raised our awareness of the potential of hydroquinone to do harm.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: And we know that hydroquinone has been uh has been, you know, in Europe, it's been banned.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: So uh and the Europeans usually are ahead of us in America with that safety stuff anyway.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I think that in addition to the fact that it's been pulled to the market at 2%, there's this feeling amongst our community that we need to be pulling away from hydroquinone anyway.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: And and in those patients that we do use it, we need the transition products.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that this one really fits the niche.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: So go over a little bit about first of all, how did they find thiamidol at as an active?
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we should probably talk about the product line.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: So this is ucerine radiant tone, okay?
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's available everywhere.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: They've got multiple products within the line.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and uh, you know, multiple studies have been done that I'm sure we'll go over.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: But the active ingredient is novel.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's called thiamidol.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so what Beiersdorf did in in Hamburg is say, you know what, we need to find a molecule that's effective as a tyrosinase inhibitor.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: But tyrosinase inhibition historically has been measured on mushroom tyrosinase.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: But we are not mushrooms.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: And our tyrosinase inhibitor is chemically different, it's structured different.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so they said, before we even start looking for compounds, let's develop our own human tyrosinase model.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: And it took them 10 years, but they did that.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I was gonna say this changed the whole paradigm.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because then they screened, if I'm not mistaken, like 50,000 molecules to find the molecule that was the best inhibitor of human tyrosinase.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: And hence thiamidol was born, I guess.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's exactly right.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: So they did this huge drug development, drug screening process, but applied it to pigment-lightening ingredients, and they found thiamidol.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: And then they said, okay, great, this works in vitro, right?
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: We're seeing some incredible results in vitro in terms of minimum inhibitory concentration of human tyrosinase.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: And they've got this great graph that they show, Patty, where you see the minimum inhibitory concentration of human tyrosinase for thiamidol is almost logarithmically different than that for so many other ingredients.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: And we have to say that we used to think that hydroquinone was a human tyrosinase inhibitor, but they showed that it isn't, actually.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's actually melanocy toxic to melanocytes.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: Melanotoxic, thank you.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's toxic to melanocytes.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that makes me really second-guess.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: That makes you really nervous.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, as are many other skin lightening agents.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: They can all be not all, but many can be melanotoxic.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: So thiamidol has been studied in so many clinical situations.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe starting with some of the studies that were done on post-inflammatory hyperpigmentation, for example, which is a huge problem, especially in our skin of color patients.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes more troubling, I think, on the cosmetic aspect than the things like acne itself.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, PIH is is a huge problem.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: And when you think about PIH, you have to worry about lightening the lesional pigmentation versus the normal pigmentation.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: So the haloing effect that we used to be with hydroquinone.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a major issue because you get that halo or target effect and it makes things look worse.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: And what they were able to do was by what Beyersdorf was able to do is show very clearly uh with multiple different instrumentation analysis that that Diamodolf targets the PIH, but leaves the existing tone alone.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: So we truly get lightning of what we need to lighten.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's a huge advantage.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: Game changer.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, game changer.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: We've all seen that lightning with the Kligman formulation and and other you know potent uh depigmenting compounds.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: So that was a big advance right there.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's huge.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then, of course, they said, well, let's go over the big guy, let's go after melasma, which you and I know is the bane of dermatologists' existence.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: Because you can have epidermal melasma, which is pigment in the top layer of your skin, that if you clear that up, which is quite easy to clear that, it can unveil a darker or more bluish-hued dermal melasma, which is really difficult to lighten.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, first of all, kudos to go after melasma in the first place.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, because melasma is probably the toughest cookie we have to crack, for sure.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so they showed, Patty, they did great studies where they they looked at, you know, a two-it product regimen versus a four-product regimen, looking at how do we truly lighten melasma, and they did hemi-face or split-phase studies to show.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and they compared it to hydroquinone as well.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: And time after time, they were showing modified massy improvements after four, eight, twelve weeks.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: I I was actually surprised, Patty, how fast it worked because I think they even showed two-week data.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: They had very quick uptake.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: The other thing is they compared themselves to 4% hydroquinone, if I'm not mistaken, and they had parity with 4% hydroquinone without the downside of 4% hydroquinone.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: That's another huge advantage.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: Talking about downside in terms of safety, we really haven't seen anything.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: This product is incredibly safe, uh, and it it's it has a longer half-life in the epidermis, so we know that that it's really helping to brighten the skin.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but yeah, it it's time after time we've seen some great novel uh improvement in modified massey.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: And when we say modified with the massey, modified means that they removed the massey is a in a you know melasma area severity index and incorporates multiple different uh measurements or scores.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: And one of those that was removed is called homogeneity of the skin.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: It was such a subjective measurement that caused the massey score overall to really not be validated.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: So they removed that from massey, and that's why it's called modified massey, because they removed the homogeneity scoring from that.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um so when you hear modified, that doesn't mean anything besides something good, honestly.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: In other words, they modified to take out that one parameter.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: They modified it to make it more.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I learned something.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: I always do.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: Also, I think of interest to our listeners is treating UV-induced pigmentation.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: And this has been looked at for lentigenes, it's also been looked at for UVB pigmentation.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: So let's talk a little bit about that.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: Again, this is a huge cosmetic problem.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: We've got patients with photoaging who are more troubled with brown spots and uh uneven skin tone than anything.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's really one of the first things you see with photoaging.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: The data is so compelling to me that I have now incorporated at least the serum, which is used twice a day in every one of my patients' skincare regimen.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because I'm in Austin.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody has UV-induced or PIH or melasma type pigmentation.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm treating pigmentation no matter what in pretty much every patient.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so I know that the serum applied twice a day does some really good things to improve the appearance of these dark spots or the melasma.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I think if if nothing else, that tells you, I mean, I mean, luckily we have access to a lot of different products, but I include this$35 product in every regimen.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's such a great price point.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: Such a great price point.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: I believe they also did a study where they pretreated patients and then they were exposed to light.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: And they didn't get as much hyperpigmentation after UV light.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: So that speaks to your idea of adding it into the skincare regimen because then they've got that on board.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: Should they get inadvertent UV light?
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: And we know that we all do.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's important for us to talk about all the products in the regimen as well.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: So they've got this nice, there's there's there's three.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, they've got this nice gel cleanser that is just a wonderful cleanser that's very that's great for sensitive skin.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and then they've got the serum as we talked about, which is a very lightweight hydrating serum.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: It goes on twice a day.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: Twice a day.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: They've got Patty, this AM product with SPF 30.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and and the nice thing about the sunscreen is that it's got the thiamodol in it.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: And then they've got a PM cream again with the thiamidol plus other ingredients to help lighten and brighten the skin.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really nice.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's really a nice little trio.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you can do this uh serum twice a day, and then you use AM and PM with it.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: And that's just a really nice addition to a skincare regimen.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: It it is, and I use it also in my acne patients quite a bit because I truly believe it helps with the PIH.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I'm sure it does.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a hydrator as well.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: The serum is a hydrator, right?
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so I have them apply the serum, and then if I have them either AM and or PM acne products, and then you've got this wonderful sunscreen and moisturizing cream over it as well.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: So it's now my new acne regimen for my patients because I'm addressing one of the sequelae of acne, right?
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: Which is PIE before it happens.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: Before it happens.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: Right, yeah, right.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's great.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think we've done a pretty good job of covering it.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: I I think so too.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's one other thing that they tested that I thought was interesting and also a bit brave.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: They looked at post-inflammatory hyperpigmentation from laser treatments.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yes, they did.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: And that was a really interesting um approach as well to look at we all know that can be such a huge problem, especially in environments like this in Austin, where we are now.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: And again, it was really helpful for mitigating PIH post-procedure.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: So another interesting use for a great OTC product.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's interesting.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: If if they had just published the melasma study, for me, that probably would have been enough because it's so difficult to reduce melasma that I would have applied that to other pigmentations.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: But buyer's door spent the money and and they the time required to invest in showing the DERM community and patients that this indeed does work for PIH, whether it's laser or UV or post uh post-acne or post-procedure.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: So really places to use it.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I and another thing they did that I thought was super interesting was they took the Kligman formulation, which is hydroquinone, the retinoid tretinoin in this case, and the um dexamephazone, and they substituted thiamidol for the hydroquinone.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: I forgot about that.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: I know what a great study.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: That was done in France.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know whether it was an investigator initiated or they did it, but it was a genius.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: And again, the product worked just as well without the 4% hydroquinone.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I'm so happy you mentioned that study.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: That was Terry Passeron.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: It was in France.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: You're 100% right.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I think there's just so much great data on this.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's a very welcome uh piece of brand new technology into our therapeutic armamentarium.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that dermatologists around the country, hopefully that will listen to this, will embrace it and try it in your patients because it's got a lot of applications clinically that I think the dermatologists will really appreciate.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and I also appreciate that Beiersdorf took a look at at our practice and said, what do patients need?
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what did what did dermatologists need to help treat their patients and what do the patients want and desire?
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: And they they took a product and met a demand.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: Instead of trying to produce a demand with the product, right, they did something really smart.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: And and I'm I'm begging the skincare community to keep doing that because that's what we really need.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: We need to meet demand.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, filling that unmet need is what really makes the cosmetic company come into the dermatologist's office in a meaningful way.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: So that was a great summary, and I hope that everybody enjoys this episode.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: If you like skincare confidential, please subscribe, tell all your friends, and give us a five star rating.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we're on all the podcast platforms now.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: Uh thank you so much for listening.