Latest / The You Project / #1942 Vapes, Cults & Low-Cost Addictions - David Gillespie

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#1942 Vapes, Cults & Low-Cost Addictions - David Gillespie · The You Project

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Oh good, are you bloody champion? Tiffany Cooks just talking
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: over the top of me as I'm doing an intro
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: as she does, she's not even enough. Well you are
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: an only child? Are you an only child?
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: Oh? I can?
• 0:11
  Speaker 3: I half consider myself that my brother is seven years older,
• 0:14
  Speaker 3: so I feel, oh no, well.
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: That's kind of an only child.
• 0:18
  Speaker 4: And you've got all the benefits right because your mum's
• 0:21
  Speaker 4: bottom had seven years to accumulate the necessary fat to
• 0:25
  Speaker 4: create Wow, that got seriously big brain, you know, so.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: I can't the first sixty seconds you're talking about TIFF's
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: mum's bottom size.
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: Abum was quite a tiny, skinny little thing. Is that
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: why I don't have a big brain?
• 0:45
  Speaker 4: Well, I mean that's where the fat for people's brains
• 0:49
  Speaker 4: comes from. So you know you you kind of one
• 0:53
  Speaker 4: a mum who's accumulated some some brain fat.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: Therefore you I've never heard you backing yourself into a
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: corner life keep going. Usually it's me, keep going.
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: I'm just talking from a biological perspective, you know.
• 1:11
  Speaker 4: You you know there's a reason evolutionarily why the female
• 1:17
  Speaker 4: form being our glass is a preferred shape.
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: Yes, so, and that's because.
• 1:24
  Speaker 4: We're programmed to seek out mates who have the fat
• 1:28
  Speaker 4: for to make the next generation.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: It is well also in a side you do raise
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: a good point, and it is interesting that obviously genetic
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: or biologically women are more are predisposed to have high
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: level of body fats for a range of very functional reasons, but.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: Stored in particular places.
• 1:50
  Speaker 4: So it's not just more fat, it's where it's stored,
• 1:54
  Speaker 4: and the place where it's stored most women don't like
• 1:57
  Speaker 4: very much at all. But from a biological perspective, there's
• 2:03
  Speaker 4: a really good reason to keep it as far away
• 2:06
  Speaker 4: from the heat of the central body as possible because
• 2:09
  Speaker 4: the fats used to build a human brain are those
• 2:12
  Speaker 4: highly oxidizable polyunsaturated fats, so you want them kept cool
• 2:16
  Speaker 4: a long way from the heat of the body.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, if I don't want to overcook this story
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: because we've probably almost thrashed it on the podcast, but
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: I feel like, speaking of female bodies and kind of
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: hormones and things, Golespo's got, she's gone nuts, like can't.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: I don't know the name of the company, but she's
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: been throwing someone under the bloody the blood sugar bust.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: Don't worry about that. Give GILESPO before we talk about
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: our topic, dajure, give gilespo the snapshot of what you've
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: been doing and losing your shit and then you know,
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: having your awakening that you've had.
• 2:56
  Speaker 5: Oh, it's been a ride, Gillespie. Goodness.
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: May I put a continuous blood glucose monitor on a
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: few days ago? Yeah, well both five days ago. Now
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: thought it would be interesting to see what happens when
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: I eat a cookie, you know, and well, no, terrifyingly,
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: it was telling me that I had very low blood shoe.
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: I've got a Type one diabetic client and I was
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: sending data through to her and she was getting very concerned.
• 3:29
  Speaker 5: It was going down to two of the night.
• 3:31
  Speaker 4: Sitting around it would have been giving you alarms NonStop
• 3:35
  Speaker 4: night long.
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: So I had gone into full recovery mode. I've been
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: eating oats before bed every night. I've been doing all
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: of the things. And then yesterday I decided I'd just
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: go and get a fingerprick test from the chemist and
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: just check on the efficacy of this contraption. And it
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: was absolute rubbish.
• 3:59
  Speaker 5: It's not it's giving me misinformation.
• 4:02
  Speaker 4: Don't they say that, They're like they can be ten
• 4:04
  Speaker 4: to fifteen percent out.
• 4:06
  Speaker 5: Well, they bloody shouldn't. This was more than ten.
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: Of this was no, hers was like sixty percent out
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: because when you say you measured, she measured it was
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: three point eight three point.
• 4:17
  Speaker 5: And the actual number was five point two.
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: Well, they're measuring two different things.
• 4:22
  Speaker 4: And like the CGM from memory measures a level in
• 4:29
  Speaker 4: your body fat. That's why we've got to attach it
• 4:31
  Speaker 4: to a fatty part of your body. And the FINGERPRIE
• 4:35
  Speaker 4: is obviously your actual blood sugar. So they're measuring two
• 4:39
  Speaker 4: different things. And depending on how you're built, the accuracy
• 4:44
  Speaker 4: of a fat measurement might be way out. And maybe
• 4:46
  Speaker 4: that might explain it.
• 4:47
  Speaker 5: Megams are too big.
• 4:48
  Speaker 4: Harps too big, too big, too much muscle.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to find a fat spot on her to
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: port a constant glucose monitor.
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: Well, after all these oats, David off about three to
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: four kilos heavier than I was last week.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: There you go, see it'll be more accurate now.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: So what's the upshot? So you've so you've ditched that
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: you're not worrying because you were giving yourself a buddy.
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: I was walken into chronologist. I was about, Yeah, things
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: was grim.
• 5:22
  Speaker 4: If it was really too overnight. Then you were effectively
• 5:25
  Speaker 4: having a hypo every night, which is not a good
• 5:27
  Speaker 4: thing exactly.
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: That's why I I don't know, I'm not conveniently, but
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: that's why I was concerned. The upshot is I can
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: still eat cookies and not worrying. I'm not going to
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: slip into a coma overnight, and I don't need to
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: eat a bowl of oats at nine pm anymore.
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: Glass and milk would do the trick too.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but how boring is that? Now, gillespo there's been
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: I didn't see it. You were telling me before we
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: went live that there's been some interesting news around some
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: of the behaviors of young people around smoking and vaping
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: and all kinds of hazardous habits, that there's been a
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: bit of a turnaround.
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 6:16
  Speaker 4: So, I mean avid readers of my work, and I'm
• 6:20
  Speaker 4: sure there are many of them who are following both
• 6:24
  Speaker 4: very Yeah, broadcast game mum. It's they will have noted
• 6:31
  Speaker 4: that I point out in one of those books about
• 6:35
  Speaker 4: that there's this massive drop off in addictive behavior once
• 6:39
  Speaker 4: the iPad is introduced. So the stats on addictive behavior
• 6:43
  Speaker 4: drug taking, smoking, et cetera are accelerating wildly in the
• 6:47
  Speaker 4: twenty tens, and then the iPad becomes invented and all
• 6:52
  Speaker 4: those things go off a cliff now, and I put
• 6:56
  Speaker 4: forward the theory that an explanation for that might be
• 6:59
  Speaker 4: that perhaps kids are finding easier, cheaper ways to get
• 7:02
  Speaker 4: doth meane highs than you know, taking risks like buying
• 7:06
  Speaker 4: drugs and someone And this is kind of, I guess
• 7:09
  Speaker 4: the latest wave of this. And the Cancer Council in
• 7:13
  Speaker 4: Australia has been doing something I think in four or
• 7:16
  Speaker 4: five years now they've been they do an annual survey
• 7:19
  Speaker 4: of a group of three thousand teenagers and they're just
• 7:24
  Speaker 4: tracking their use of tobacco products, vapes, you know, nicotine pouches,
• 7:31
  Speaker 4: those kinds of things, and seeing what that's looking like.
• 7:35
  Speaker 4: Because it's not that long ago that we would have
• 7:38
  Speaker 4: had every second politician on the news clutching their pearls
• 7:41
  Speaker 4: about you know, all these kids are all vaping, so
• 7:49
  Speaker 4: you know, and and it turns out that that's not
• 7:52
  Speaker 4: actually what's happening. So vaping did sort of have a
• 7:56
  Speaker 4: bit of a run, mostly during COVID when stress reducing
• 8:01
  Speaker 4: behaviors started to be quite a thing. But since then,
• 8:05
  Speaker 4: what this data from the Cancer Council is telling us
• 8:09
  Speaker 4: is it's really been dropping quite rapidly. So their latest
• 8:13
  Speaker 4: set of data that came out today, which is their
• 8:15
  Speaker 4: April twenty twenty five set, shows that in kids aged
• 8:21
  Speaker 4: fourteen to seventeen, it's dropped from seventeen and a half
• 8:25
  Speaker 4: percent of those kids who have ever vaped down to
• 8:29
  Speaker 4: just fourteen point six percent. So that's a pretty significant
• 8:34
  Speaker 4: drop in just a few years, and it suggests that
• 8:38
  Speaker 4: there's a trend here, which is that people will kids
• 8:42
  Speaker 4: not needing to get a dopamine hit by vaping. And
• 8:47
  Speaker 4: you might say, oh, that's because they're probably just smoking instead,
• 8:50
  Speaker 4: but the same thing's happening there too.
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: So if we look at.
• 8:55
  Speaker 4: Similar surveys on that cohort, smoking, never smoked has risen
• 9:01
  Speaker 4: from ninety two percent to ninety four percent of the
• 9:04
  Speaker 4: same period, So there's there's only six percent of kids
• 9:08
  Speaker 4: in that age group who have ever smoked now, and
• 9:13
  Speaker 4: the same sort of things happening in the nicotine pouches
• 9:16
  Speaker 4: as well as dropped. I mean, very fewer people use
• 9:19
  Speaker 4: nicotine pouches anyway, but you know, these are the things
• 9:22
  Speaker 4: people shove up under their you know, their lips and
• 9:25
  Speaker 4: just have it against their gum for the nicotine hit
• 9:28
  Speaker 4: dropped from two point one percent to one point nine
• 9:30
  Speaker 4: percent in the last year, so over overall, nicotines losing
• 9:37
  Speaker 4: its appeal amongst teenagers. Now you're going to remember teenagers
• 9:41
  Speaker 4: is an interesting cohort because the way the human brain works,
• 9:47
  Speaker 4: that's the bit where addiction starts. Everyone who's an addict
• 9:51
  Speaker 4: probably started whatever the addictive behavior is when they're a teenager.
• 9:55
  Speaker 4: Because the way the human brain is architected is the
• 10:00
  Speaker 4: thing that stops you becoming an addict is turned off
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: from the start of puberty to your early twenties. So
• 10:06
  Speaker 4: most people who are adult addicts to something began whatever
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: it is they're addicted to when they are a teenager.
• 10:12
  Speaker 4: So that cohorts really really important to study. You know,
• 10:16
  Speaker 4: there's lots of studies on alcoholism, for example, that bear all.
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: Of that out.
• 10:21
  Speaker 4: But if all of those kids are not getting dopamine hits,
• 10:27
  Speaker 4: not developing addictions to nicotine, and that's what these stats
• 10:30
  Speaker 4: seem to say, then why is that now in the
• 10:35
  Speaker 4: media today. I know you've been tracking it furiously, but
• 10:37
  Speaker 4: in the media today, everyone you know, from Martha to
• 10:40
  Speaker 4: Martha is taking credit for.
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: This, But.
• 10:44
  Speaker 4: I haven't heard any really sound biochemical explanations for why
• 10:49
  Speaker 4: teenagers would suddenly be finding this not appealing. You know,
• 10:53
  Speaker 4: you hear a lot of this psychobabble stuff about, oh,
• 10:55
  Speaker 4: they don't like the smell, or they don't like what
• 10:58
  Speaker 4: it does to their look, or you know whatever.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: But the real.
• 11:02
  Speaker 4: Thing when you're talking about something potentially addictive is decisions
• 11:05
  Speaker 4: aren't made on the basis of that kind of stuff.
• 11:08
  Speaker 4: Decisions are made on the basis of just one theme,
• 11:11
  Speaker 4: which is does this give me a dopamine hit easier, faster, quicker,
• 11:16
  Speaker 4: cheaper than the alternatives. And the reality is, in our
• 11:21
  Speaker 4: society today, a kid can get free dopamine hits that
• 11:25
  Speaker 4: are much more powerful by fishing their phone out of
• 11:28
  Speaker 4: their pocket.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: They don't have to go and buy a vape, they.
• 11:30
  Speaker 4: Don't have to evade all the latest regulations on smoking
• 11:33
  Speaker 4: and vaping and all that sort of stuff.
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: They don't have to worry about any of that.
• 11:37
  Speaker 4: They want a dopamine hit, they get their phone out
• 11:39
  Speaker 4: and they get on insta.
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: It's that simple.
• 11:43
  Speaker 4: We've given every kid in this generation the ability to
• 11:46
  Speaker 4: self medicate huge amounts of dopamine without all the inconvenience
• 11:51
  Speaker 4: of having to be bothered drinking, smoking, vaping, whatever, which
• 11:56
  Speaker 4: is why all those behaviors are dropping in teenagers because
• 12:00
  Speaker 4: we've suddenly, you know, done wonders in convincing kids that
• 12:04
  Speaker 4: they're bad for them. Teenagers don't care about adults telling
• 12:07
  Speaker 4: them that they're doing it because it's easier to get
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: a hit somewhere else.
• 12:14
  Speaker 6: Yeah, that's so true, that kids don't give a fuck
• 12:16
  Speaker 6: about what we tell them. It's like, I'm sure there's
• 12:19
  Speaker 6: someone somewhere going, oh, the you know, the campaign that
• 12:23
  Speaker 6: we launched is really effective, it's really doing well.
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: You know, the numbers are down. What we're doing is
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: working with no actual evidence. That's what they're doing.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: Other than the fact that the numbers are down.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well they go, well, yeah, but that's that's you know, correlation,
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: not causation. But what's going on with booze that young
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: kids just don't start with booze like they used to
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: in the old days.
• 12:50
  Speaker 4: Right, what you have a look when you look at
• 12:53
  Speaker 4: the drinking numbers, you see two distinct trends emerging. So
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: the total amount of alcohol consumed by teenagers is dropping,
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: but the occurrence of binge drinking events is increasing, So
• 13:07
  Speaker 4: it's that overall they're drinking less alcohol, but when they
• 13:13
  Speaker 4: do drink it, it's a significant consumption, which is two
• 13:18
  Speaker 4: really bad pieces of information. Well, the overall drop is
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: a good thing, and it's for the similar reasons I
• 13:24
  Speaker 4: would put forward as the drop in the nicotine as well,
• 13:27
  Speaker 4: which is it's easier to get a hit if you
• 13:29
  Speaker 4: want to minute by a minute dopamine, you don't need
• 13:31
  Speaker 4: to drink to get it. But what's happening is the
• 13:36
  Speaker 4: binge drinking events are happening. They're much worse and they're
• 13:40
  Speaker 4: more frequent, and so whilst that average is out to less,
• 13:44
  Speaker 4: binge drinking is one of the most dangerous things to
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: do because it actually starts to re architect the brain
• 13:50
  Speaker 4: in a teenager to the point where the alcoholism starts
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: in ten years, but actually can't be undone after that
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: because the brain gets used. There's a I should explain this.
• 14:02
  Speaker 4: There's a bit of biochemistry in the brain called gabba gaba,
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: and GABA actually moderates the effect of dopamine and makes
• 14:09
  Speaker 4: it harder for us to become addicted.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: During the teen years.
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: GABA is essentially turned off because one of the many
• 14:16
  Speaker 4: things it does is allow is stop you going into
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: puberty from the moment you're born, and so in order
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: to enter puberty, GABA has to be turned off. So
• 14:26
  Speaker 4: when it's turned off, you're much more easily addicted to
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: dopamine producing events, which is why alcohol and anything else
• 14:34
  Speaker 4: becomes addictive in those years.
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: The interesting thing about.
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: Alcohol is though, that it has a very similar chemical
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: structure to GABBA, and the brain gets used to you
• 14:46
  Speaker 4: supplying GABA as an artificial source rather than it producing
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: it itself. And so by the time you get to
• 14:54
  Speaker 4: your early twenties, if it's been used to you produced,
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: you know, on a regular basis, having large quantities of
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: something that looks like gabbat to the brain, the brain says, oh, okay, well,
• 15:04
  Speaker 4: you're just going to supply this stuff so we won't
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: produce it, and you end up being in that not
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: protected state for the rest of your life, which is
• 15:14
  Speaker 4: why alcoholism is one of the hardest addictions to break,
• 15:17
  Speaker 4: because it actually changes the way the brain is wire permanently.
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: Here's a weird question, right, So you said that, like
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: most addictions start or begin anyway if not take hold
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: in the teen years, what do you reckon. I mean,
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: I don't know how long we're being around. Depends if
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: you go the evolutionarily somewhere around three hundred thousand years
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: or something.
• 15:44
  Speaker 4: Depends what says the start point. I'd go at two
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: fifteen just to be careful.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: All right, when did they two hundred and fifty thousand years?
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: When did When did we start to get addicted? It
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: seems like there's a lot of a lot of options
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: now if you want to get addiction. Did something. We've
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: got more stuff to get addicted to than ever before.
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: Like what were teenagers doing five hundred years ago that
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: they could get addicted to that.
• 16:09
  Speaker 4: Could well, this is kind of this is kind of
• 16:12
  Speaker 4: the hit here is that there wasn't much to be
• 16:17
  Speaker 4: addicted to. So so the brain dialing down the thing
• 16:22
  Speaker 4: that stops you becoming addicted, isn't such a wasn't such
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: a bad thing. There were no giant risks associated with
• 16:29
  Speaker 4: doing that because there just wasn't that much to be
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: addicted to. Now, obviously, one of the oldest addictive things
• 16:37
  Speaker 4: is alcohol. So we first discovered it when we ate
• 16:41
  Speaker 4: a bit of overripe fruit and it made us a
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: bit tipsy, and then we started more intentionally constructing it
• 16:49
  Speaker 4: and because we detected this fabulous effect. So it's been
• 16:56
  Speaker 4: one of the addictions that's been with us right through evolution.
• 17:00
  Speaker 4: It's a strange addiction because the substance itself is actually
• 17:04
  Speaker 4: really poisonous. So not only do we develop an addiction
• 17:09
  Speaker 4: to it, we also evolved the ability to drink it
• 17:11
  Speaker 4: in small quantities and not kill ourselves, which is you know,
• 17:16
  Speaker 4: we can talk about that another day because there's some
• 17:18
  Speaker 4: interesting biological offshoots from that about how we deal with it.
• 17:22
  Speaker 4: But so alcohol is the year original addiction. We only
• 17:28
  Speaker 4: really started to add to that, you know, once we
• 17:32
  Speaker 4: discovered the powers of tobacco and nicotine and things like that,
• 17:36
  Speaker 4: initially nicotine snuff which we just directly snorted and so on.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: But we're really talking very very recent history.
• 17:44
  Speaker 4: So alcohol you might take back tens fifteen twenty thousand
• 17:47
  Speaker 4: years defined when we originally started intentionally producing it, but
• 17:53
  Speaker 4: other products things based on tobacco, is much more recent.
• 17:57
  Speaker 4: It's probably in the only last few hundred years, and
• 18:02
  Speaker 4: to have it at any large scale in the population,
• 18:05
  Speaker 4: and then we really didn't add to that list very
• 18:09
  Speaker 4: much until probably the last fifty years when we started
• 18:14
  Speaker 4: to come up with some well, probably the last one hundred.
• 18:19
  Speaker 4: You know, we certainly got into the opioid things based
• 18:23
  Speaker 4: on the opium plant, those sorts of things towards the
• 18:28
  Speaker 4: end of the nineteenth century, start of the twentieth century,
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: and then developing through the twentieth century.
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: But the twentieth century was.
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: The golden age for substances that could cause addiction. But
• 18:39
  Speaker 4: even then kind of hard to get. You know, It's
• 18:44
  Speaker 4: it wasn't like you were, it just wasn't hard to get.
• 18:47
  Speaker 4: You had to be prepared to hang out in some
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: fairly shady places in order to get access to substances
• 18:54
  Speaker 4: that could cause addiction. And even alcohol wasn't exactly easy access,
• 18:59
  Speaker 4: and smoke weren't either. It's only sort of once you
• 19:04
  Speaker 4: get into the twenty first century that these things start
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: to be where something that could produce a dopamine hit
• 19:11
  Speaker 4: starts to be generally available. We go from a situation,
• 19:14
  Speaker 4: say with pornography, where you had to be prepared to
• 19:17
  Speaker 4: hang out by the phishing magazine section in the newspaper
• 19:21
  Speaker 4: office as store to and you know, just surreptitiously see
• 19:25
  Speaker 4: if you could rip open the sealed section of the
• 19:28
  Speaker 4: Playboy and that was your access to pornography to now
• 19:33
  Speaker 4: you can have videos of anything you can imagine, and
• 19:35
  Speaker 4: probably many things you can't imagine, twenty four hours a
• 19:38
  Speaker 4: day on your phone. And that's in the space of
• 19:41
  Speaker 4: the last twenty years. And it's probably a good example
• 19:47
  Speaker 4: of how far we've gone with everything addictive. We've gone
• 19:51
  Speaker 4: from dopamine producing things being really really rare and really
• 19:57
  Speaker 4: really hard to get hold of to now I've all
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: the time to everybody. And that's a massive transition in
• 20:06
  Speaker 4: just the last twenty years.
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: Do you reckon that cigarettes will be around in twenty
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: years in Australia? I feel like they don't have much
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: of a lifespan.
• 20:15
  Speaker 4: No, no, no, it's not an industry i'd want to
• 20:18
  Speaker 4: be putting my money into. You know. It's between the
• 20:22
  Speaker 4: pharmaceutical industry ripping you off and taking the addictivelopment and
• 20:26
  Speaker 4: selling it in patches instead of you having to sell cigarettes,
• 20:30
  Speaker 4: and in general the public being mostly against the concept.
• 20:34
  Speaker 4: The only people who are still smoking are people who
• 20:36
  Speaker 4: are hardcore addicts. Nobody smokes because they want to smoke.
• 20:40
  Speaker 4: Nobody wants to be treated like a leper.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, when you think you're not allowed to advertise them.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: They've got pictures on the front of the packs of
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: people's faces falling apart. Every second store that sells cigarettes
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: in Melbourne anyway is getting fire bombed. I don't think
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: a lot of young people are taking it up right.
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: Well, no, Well, as you can see from those stats,
• 21:02
  Speaker 4: you know, ninety four percent of teenagers have never tried
• 21:06
  Speaker 4: and don't plan to. I suspect why do that just
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: to get a dopamine hit?
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: You know, do.
• 21:12
  Speaker 4: Something that's that's disgusting and hard to purchase and really
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: really expensive and the government will tax you to death
• 21:17
  Speaker 4: on when you can just go and get it for
• 21:19
  Speaker 4: free from your phone.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: Do you think that some people are genetically more predisposed
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: to become addicted?
• 21:30
  Speaker 4: Well, we all are genetically more predisposed to everything in
• 21:33
  Speaker 4: that as we've sort of I think we've probably talked
• 21:35
  Speaker 4: about before. We're all on a normal curve, you know,
• 21:37
  Speaker 4: the bell shaped curve where you know ninety five percent
• 21:40
  Speaker 4: of us are in the middle, and then there's two
• 21:42
  Speaker 4: and a half percent at either end and so and
• 21:45
  Speaker 4: you can be somewhere down the tail on either side. Well,
• 21:48
  Speaker 4: the same thing applies for addiction. I mean the beauty
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: of you know, DNA and mixing up everyone's genes every
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: time they have sex. Is that you get that protection,
• 22:01
  Speaker 4: which is every possible combination is built into the population.
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: So if something comes along and wipes out ninety five
• 22:07
  Speaker 4: percent of people, there'll still be some who'll survive.
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, this is a bit of a departure. But
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: speaking about the brain and all that stuff, we had
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: a lady on the other day called professor Rebecca Lamov
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: from Harvard. She's an anthropologist but also psychologist and does
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: a whole bunch of stuff, and we spoke about Mkultra.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: Have you heard about Mkultra who the CIA created a
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: program in the sixties and seventies around anyway trying to brainwash,
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: trying to get civilians and brainwashing them to be able
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: to use them as covert operatives doing sneaky shit for
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: the government using psychedelics, specifically LSD. I heard of any
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: of that.
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: The name rings a bell, but I didn't know the
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: tail of it.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: Oh god, yeah, just just have a little when you know,
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: because I know you've got nothing on. You've submitted your
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: book now, so.
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: Probably in the wondering what to do with myself, you're
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: probably in.
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: The jakuzi as we spend That's right, Yeah, m k
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: Ultra and just have a look at have a bit
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: of a read on that. It's so fascinating how they
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: they went down this rabbit hole of trying to essentially
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: mind's control.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: Did it work?
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: Not essentially actually mind control experiments trying to see if
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: they could hijack someone's brain turn into uh no, like
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: but it was all done, you know, it was all
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: government funded but not traceable. But it's it's kind of
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: come out now. But yeah, that that stuff is.
• 23:47
  Speaker 4: That stuff is fascinating when the reality is, if you
• 23:51
  Speaker 4: really wanted to control someone's brain, it would be pretty
• 23:53
  Speaker 4: easy to do. You just hope you're taking notes here.
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: Tif it's got this down.
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: Test.
• 24:02
  Speaker 4: I mean, we see people doing it all the time.
• 24:04
  Speaker 4: You see Donald Trump do it every day of the week.
• 24:07
  Speaker 4: The human brain is very, very susceptible to some very
• 24:11
  Speaker 4: specific manipulations around dopamine feedback loops on oxytocin, which is
• 24:16
  Speaker 4: oxytocin is the thing that makes us feel good when
• 24:19
  Speaker 4: we do things that those around us approve of, and
• 24:22
  Speaker 4: it is a double edged sword because it also makes
• 24:24
  Speaker 4: us hate the outsiders. So it's an in group drug
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: in that when you're part of the in group, it
• 24:31
  Speaker 4: makes the in group draw together stronger and stronger and stronger,
• 24:35
  Speaker 4: and it becomes impervious to facts or truth or anything
• 24:38
  Speaker 4: like that. It just and you would have you know,
• 24:41
  Speaker 4: this is called a cult. But the formula for a
• 24:43
  Speaker 4: cult is really really simple, which is to generate things
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: that make the group believe that that's what everybody else
• 24:54
  Speaker 4: in the group wants to believe. And it doesn't matter
• 24:58
  Speaker 4: how insane thing is. If everybody if enough people believe
• 25:02
  Speaker 4: it within the group, you can just keep winding that
• 25:05
  Speaker 4: harder and harder and harder and harder, and you've effectively
• 25:09
  Speaker 4: gotten control of their minds. Then, and you've seen in
• 25:12
  Speaker 4: the United States, for example, that has been used to
• 25:14
  Speaker 4: seize the presidency. So don't for a minute have anyone
• 25:20
  Speaker 4: suggest to you it's not possible to control human's brains.
• 25:23
  Speaker 4: It's very very possible and very easy, and a very
• 25:26
  Speaker 4: old formula that you can watch being used in real time.
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I've got to do more of that. We need
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: to get the numbers up.
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you just need to create a cult.
• 25:38
  Speaker 4: And I think we've talked about this before, you know,
• 25:41
  Speaker 4: we just need to get a cold going here.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: I don't know that. I'm not. Yeah, I don't reckon
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: be that hard, would it?
• 25:48
  Speaker 4: No, Well it's not. It's formulaic, right, it is formulate.
• 25:52
  Speaker 4: You might have to do some things that you don't
• 25:54
  Speaker 4: agree with, and you might have to abandon your morals,
• 25:59
  Speaker 4: but it shouldn't be a big problem.
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: I've always thought if I was going to start a cult,
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: I'd just call it a cult, so we were open,
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: We'll clear.
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: No, that's last thing. You don't do that.
• 26:10
  Speaker 4: No, you've got to have a higher purpose in mind.
• 26:14
  Speaker 4: You're exposing the conspiracies of the world.
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: That's a good one. That's always a good one.
• 26:20
  Speaker 4: Have people believe that there's a large group of people
• 26:22
  Speaker 4: out there who are trying to destroy their lives, and
• 26:25
  Speaker 4: you've got the solution.
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: My training partner lovingly referred to as the Crab because
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: he looks and moves like a crab, quite often sideways,
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: not forwards or backwards. But he is the biggest conspiracy
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: theorist in my life. He sends me, he sends me
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: probably ten to twenty videos a day. It's something that
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: I absolutely have to watch. You've got to watch this.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: You've got to watch this. You know, there was no
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: moon landing. There no moon landing, and I'm luck and
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: then he goes because humans can't go through the van
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: Allen radiation belt and there's not like all some bullshit.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know. Maybe there was no moon landing.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: I don't know, but every.
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: Day there was a moon landing, they'd be so silly.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: Well, oh but he'll go. But what about the shadows
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: on the surface of the moon. The shadows are all wrong?
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: Oh god, everything everything, well, you know.
• 27:24
  Speaker 4: It's sort of like the thing that like it's really
• 27:26
  Speaker 4: interesting to watch at the moment. I don't know whether
• 27:28
  Speaker 4: you're keeping up with this in the United States, but
• 27:30
  Speaker 4: how they've not released the Epstein lists, right, so the
• 27:36
  Speaker 4: you know that three months ago the Attorney General said
• 27:40
  Speaker 4: she had on the desk and remembering that the release
• 27:44
  Speaker 4: of this information was a large part of why a
• 27:48
  Speaker 4: lot of people voted for Trump. He was going to
• 27:52
  Speaker 4: expose the corruption and the world conspiracy that led to this,
• 27:58
  Speaker 4: and now it's not being released, and in fact, they're
• 28:01
  Speaker 4: now saying it didn't exist at all.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: Sorry, it never existed. And that's hard.
• 28:06
  Speaker 4: That's going to be that's going to cause that reminds
• 28:08
  Speaker 4: me when you read historically about there were these great
• 28:11
  Speaker 4: movements at the end of the nineteenth century that were
• 28:14
  Speaker 4: about the end of the world. Right, end of the
• 28:16
  Speaker 4: world was about to happen, particularly in the wild West
• 28:21
  Speaker 4: in America. There were quite a few religious cults built
• 28:23
  Speaker 4: around this notion that the end of the world will
• 28:25
  Speaker 4: happen on Tuesday, the seventeenth of September.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: Eighteen, the last book in the Bible. Yeah.
• 28:34
  Speaker 4: Now, as you might have figured out by now, it
• 28:36
  Speaker 4: didn't happen. And the people in those cults always had
• 28:41
  Speaker 4: this issue when you got to the point, because it
• 28:44
  Speaker 4: was a very specific point. It was usually a date
• 28:47
  Speaker 4: and a time when it was going to happen, and
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: then it didn't. And often people were heavily committed to this,
• 28:53
  Speaker 4: like they sold off all their assets, they divorced their wives.
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: Or whatever.
• 28:57
  Speaker 4: The requirements of the cult were massive life changing events
• 29:01
  Speaker 4: that required this commitment, and thousands and thousands of people
• 29:05
  Speaker 4: did them, and then it didn't happen. And the interesting
• 29:09
  Speaker 4: thing is what happened to those people. Now, around sixty
• 29:15
  Speaker 4: percent of them walked away when it didn't happen. Forty
• 29:19
  Speaker 4: percent didn't, which for me, is the extraordinary thing they
• 29:24
  Speaker 4: bought into the next layer of Well because of this,
• 29:28
  Speaker 4: that or the other, it didn't happen, and now it's
• 29:30
  Speaker 4: going to happen, you know, you know, in Tuesday, in
• 29:33
  Speaker 4: three months time or whatever it was. The interesting thing
• 29:36
  Speaker 4: is when it doesn't happen, when the thing, when the prophecy,
• 29:39
  Speaker 4: you would think that that should destroy the cult, but
• 29:43
  Speaker 4: it doesn't.
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: No, because logic has nothing to do with it. I mean,
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: I think I told you back in the day, I
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: was in the middle of one of those Like I'm
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: going to say, it was pretty much a cult. It
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: was a Christian church, but it was non denominational, it
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: was evangelical, it was very There was good stuff, but
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: there was also scary stuff. And we were told, I
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: was told in the very early eighties that by the
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: nineties there'd be a one world government and be a
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: cashless society and we shouldn't buy anything, like we shouldn't
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: buy we shouldn't commit ourselves and have like a mortgage
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: or anything. And yeah, we were told that back then.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: That and it was all referenced through the Book of Revelation,
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: and you know, it says, it says that this is
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: the actual King James. It says no man shall buy
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: or sell save he has the mark of the Beast,
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: And it just means that nobody can buy stuff or
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: sell stuff unless they have this mark on the back
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: of their right hand or their forehead. Right And we
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: all believed that. We believed that. I believed it, you know,
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: and then eventually obviously go, well, that didn't happen. But yeah,
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: it's like when you're in the middle of group think
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: and like you said, there's a lot of stosin going on.
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of connection, and you feel like you
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: belong and you feel valued and seen and love connected.
• 31:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's the powerful of this is people sit back
• 31:09
  Speaker 4: and they say, never going to happen to me.
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: I'm way too smart for this rubbish.
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: It's in emotion, like logic goes out the window.
• 31:17
  Speaker 4: It's not even emotion, it's biochemistry. It's it's we have
• 31:22
  Speaker 4: a built in system to make sure we do what
• 31:25
  Speaker 4: other people want us to do.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: And it is a double edged sword. It both gives.
• 31:30
  Speaker 4: Us the power to rule the world in that, unlike
• 31:33
  Speaker 4: any other species on the planet, we can cooperate in
• 31:36
  Speaker 4: large groups of strangers that no other species can do.
• 31:39
  Speaker 4: That but it also the downside to it is that
• 31:43
  Speaker 4: it can be manipulated by bad actors.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, wow covered some territory went from vapes
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: to cults, bloody MK ultra it to brainwashing.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: That's what happens that we've got nothing to talk about.
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: Plenty to talk about. Quickly, What can you tell us,
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: if anything, about your new book that you just pressed
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: the submit button onto your publisher.
• 32:09
  Speaker 4: Well, it's it's look. I mean, we've been back and
• 32:13
  Speaker 4: forth over the title. So the publisher likes the title
• 32:20
  Speaker 4: like something that says something about an attention recovery plan.
• 32:23
  Speaker 4: I initially called it hyper focus that I don't know.
• 32:28
  Speaker 4: I just like the idea of Scatterbrain being somewhere in there.
• 32:30
  Speaker 4: So the idea here is that there is a world
• 32:33
  Speaker 4: out there intentionally trying to destroy our focus, trying for
• 32:39
  Speaker 4: highly profitable means to destroy our focus, and this book
• 32:45
  Speaker 4: is meant to be a guide to protecting yourself and
• 32:50
  Speaker 4: exploiting the fact that everybody else has their focus destroyed
• 32:53
  Speaker 4: to your own benefit.
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: I think Scatterbrain's are great title. I think I like it.
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: I think fuck your publisher, tell him, like really it's like.
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: But I think also it depends a little on the subtitle.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: You know. It's like a friend of mine, Paul Taylor,
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: wrote a book called Death by Comfort. It's a really
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: good book, by the way, and he just took Death
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: by Comfort and he just talks about and when I like,
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: he talks about a lot of stuff I talk about
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: and you've probably spoken about he talks about. And as
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: soon as I heard that title, I went, dude, you
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: killed that title. That is a great title, and it's
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: selling really well and it's quite successful, but I think
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: the title is paramount. Like I won't bore you, but yeah,
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: I So I wrote a very rudimentary book years ago,
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: could Stop Fucking Around, which was thirty Principles for a
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: Better Life. Right, it's really basic, really fundamental. And then
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: Penguin approached me and said, we want you to do
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: a bigger, better version of that. But you know, two
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: hundred and eighty pages, eighty thousand words, blah blah blah
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: blah blah, And then it doesn't even matter. I might
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: have told you this story. But so I wrote a new,
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: a better, bigger book I wrote. I spent eight months
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: writing pretty much eight hours a day, about two hundred
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: and forty days in a row, no days off. Submitted
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: it when I had to way way better book and
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: they wanted to so I thought it was going to
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: be stop fucking around two or I don't know. They
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: wanted to call it pull your finger out. And so
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: I went into this meeting and that the whole thing
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: with the marketing people and the you know everyone. There's
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: like twelve people in a boardroom and me and the
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: new like the book with the title is under it's
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: on an a frame, under a sheet. They pull off
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: the sheet to reveal it to me, the new title,
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: and I go I hate it. To everyone in the room,
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: I go, I hate it, and they're like, oh no,
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: it tested really well. I'm like, it won't sell. And
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: it literally didn't sell. And that was with I would
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: have done at least fifty interviews for that book and
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: the first book I self published, and it outsold the
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: Penguin one by probably seven or eight to one. Wow,
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: it's not as good a book. It's not as good
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: a book. It's just that the title of the second
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: book is shit. So I'm all about having a great
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: title that's going to make people either pick it up
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: physically pick it up and look at it, turn it over,
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: read the back cover, or get their attention, because I mean,
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: you know, right now there's ocean of books.
• 35:37
  Speaker 4: That being said, I'm notoriously bad at titles. So the
• 35:43
  Speaker 4: book that sold the most that I've ever written was
• 35:46
  Speaker 4: my first one called Sweet Poison, and I'm not a title.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: Not my title. I wanted to call it the Fat Monkey.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: So that Oh, there's so many things I could say
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: for the back of that. Yeah, I know that's cool.
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: But also a good title is a good title, and
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: so they came out of the scatter Brain is scatter
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: Brain is a good title?
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: Look, I like it, but I don't know.
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: We'll see, well everyone if you think.
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: But what we don't do not fire people up about this,
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: because I.
• 36:22
  Speaker 4: Don't want to get in for the trouble with my
• 36:23
  Speaker 4: publisher when I'm having delicate negotiations about such things.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: No, fuck it, We're going to fire right up. Don't
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: worry about that. I'm going to there's a call to
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: action going out. No, there's not panic. Not What might
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: the the tagline be or the sub I.
• 36:40
  Speaker 4: Don't know, it'll be something something about I had. I
• 36:44
  Speaker 4: had a few thoughts. One was a strategic plan for
• 36:47
  Speaker 4: reclaiming your mind in an age of distraction or something
• 36:50
  Speaker 4: like that, or a recovery plan or something like that.
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: If you can get that down a word or two
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: or three. But good, really good.
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that kind of thing. Look, I don't know.
• 37:02
  Speaker 4: I'm I'm the first to admit I'm really really bad
• 37:06
  Speaker 4: at marketing. And there are people who have paid a
• 37:08
  Speaker 4: lot of money to be really really good at marketing,
• 37:11
  Speaker 4: So I tend to trust what they say about such things.
• 37:15
  Speaker 4: Although I'm now paying attention to the story you told.
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: Well, I think I think, in general terms, marketing people
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: are better than you and me generally, But I don't
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: think always, and I don't think, you know, not not
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: everything that's you know, most products fail, Most books don't sell,
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: you know, to any significant level. So not every marketing
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: person that comes up with a concept or an idea
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: or a cover or a title nails it. I'd say
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: most don't. So definitely, you know, I would definitely listen,
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: but I wouldn't necessarily discount my own now soolution and judge.
• 37:53
  Speaker 4: You know, of course that the contract that you signed
• 37:56
  Speaker 4: with a publisher, and you no doubt had this pointed
• 37:59
  Speaker 4: out to you when you objected to their title says
• 38:02
  Speaker 4: that they get the final call on such things.
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I get it. I got it, and I was.
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: I mean I was, you know, I was you know
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: they I knew that all the way along. I mean,
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: they paid me up front to write the book. And
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: then you know, then I you know, got a whopping
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: three bucks a book of the thirty bucks that sold
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: for so so that that out of thirty bucks, because
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: you saw that paid for food for three days. So yeah,
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: that set me up for life that bad. So I'm
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: crushing it.
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: That's That's the bit I always love when people say
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: to me.
• 38:37
  Speaker 4: You know you you're just you're writing this for the money.
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: People don't really understand. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I made great to.
• 38:47
  Speaker 4: Say goodbye, But that last bit out if you want
• 38:50
  Speaker 4: to it sounds nice to be boring.
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: Anyway, that was the only time you're any good today.
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: We'll leave it in.
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: A see it later guy.
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: Thanks mate, so yea