Latest / Unspoken Career Truths / The Power of Kind Leadership: Practicing Empathy at the Office

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The Power of Kind Leadership: Practicing Empathy at the Office · Unspoken Career Truths

• 0:00
  Welcome to unspoken career truths.
• 0:02
  I'm Cara Wood. And I'm Lauren Levac Gilbert
• 0:05
  and. We're here to be the Co workers
• 0:07
  you can trust. Hey, Cara.
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  Hello, how are you? How?
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  Are you doing? I'm doing good.
• 0:15
  You ready for some more skills to focus on this?
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  March, yes, I'm loving this month so far.
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  Yeah, same here. So friendly reminder, this month
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  we are going to be focusing on the skills that will not be
• 0:27
  going out of style no matter if robots take over the world and
• 0:31
  everything becomes automated. What's really important, what
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  you should think about, what you should hone in on.
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  And this week's skill, we teased it last episode is from world,
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  Please. Empathy.
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  And empathy is a skill that really can turn good managers
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  into great leaders, can bring teams together, can make
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  workplaces feel more than just a workplace and more like a
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  community and a team. It's something that I'm super
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  passionate about. What about you, Karen?
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  I feel like this is the kind of thing that sets the boss that
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  you want to work for versus just the boss you have to work for.
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  When someone is empathetic, it really helps you feel understood
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  and seen, which is just fabulous.
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  And then again, to have empathy yourself, it's really important
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  to make others feel that fabulous.
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  Empathy is definitely something that's really important and
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  we're going to kind of start by defining it right.
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  I feel like empathy's talked about a lot, but like, what
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  actually is empathy? So the actual definition?
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  Empathy is the ability to understand, share, and
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  vicariously experience another person's emotions, thoughts, or
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  perspective. Often described as stepping into
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  their shoes, right? So I don't know if growing up
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  your parents ever said, well, try to walk a mile in their
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  shoes. That was something that I was
• 1:51
  always taught when I was younger, and that's how I kind
• 1:54
  of think about empathy. My mantra from my parents was
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  slightly different, but got a similar thing, which I was often
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  told people are different. And I actually at the surface
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  you're thinking, wait, but you're supposed to feel for
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  everyone. But actually no, realizing that
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  people are different, it's like you have to sort of look for the
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  understanding, like you don't necessarily know right away why
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  someone might do something different from you, or they
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  might be doing the same thing as you but for a different reason.
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  So that helped me think a lot about where other people were
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  coming from, which I think is a big part of empathy.
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  It's funny you say that because it reminded me of a saying that
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  my dad always taught me. And it's one that I like you so
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  much as an adult, and it's you never know the inside of someone
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  else's house. Yeah.
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  And when I was like, I was like, yeah, OK, sure.
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  Like maybe do they take their shoes off or not?
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  Like, you know, like when I was younger, I didn't really
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  understand that. But I like, so fundamentally
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  understand that now. And it's such a good way of
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  thinking about it. Like, you have no idea what's
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  happening in behind closed doors.
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  Like, you're never going to, right?
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  So like, empathy is so important to understand that.
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  Like, everybody has different experiences.
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  I'm just going through something different.
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  And Kara, did you know? Because I didn't know until I
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  started researching this that there's different types of
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  empathy. There's you didn't.
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  How many? How many?
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  I can guess 2. There's 3.
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  Wow. There's cognitive empathy, so
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  understanding how someone feels. There's emotional empathy, which
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  is feeling it with them, OK. And then there's compassionate
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  empathy, which is taking action to kind of help them through
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  your empathy. And I was like, oh, I feel like
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  all three of those make sense, but I wouldn't have been able to
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  define them. I also feel like it's really
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  helpful to segment those out. Yeah, I was aware of the last
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  two. That emotional empathy, I think,
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  is the one that we sort of associate when we hear someone
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  say, like, I'm an empath. I'm feeling, feeling what
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  everyone's feeling. And so that to me is the kind of
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  centerpiece. But I love that I hadn't heard
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  of cognitive empathy, which I feel like is actually key to
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  sort of driving that, like understanding what someone
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  feels. Compassionate empathy.
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  I I have also heard of and, and that makes a lot of sense.
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  You have to do something with it.
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  And I also think a lot about, you know, compassion is you are
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  there with someone like the. Going through it.
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  So yeah, exactly. So you're right there taking
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  action with them. I'm glad you brought up the
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  thing about like some people said, like they're an empath or
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  like this is how I'm feeling and I.
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  Think I think that. Could sometimes get thrown
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  around a lot and sometimes empathy can get like a little
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  bit of a bad rap because either it's like overused in the wrong
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  circumstances or it's thought of as like soft in a way, which is
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  like a negative connotation to it.
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  But it actually it improves the way you communicate and improves
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  the way that you build trust, how you can reduce conflict by
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  again, just like putting yourself in someone else's
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  shoes. And I kind of related to it.
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  It's like you're being more human, right?
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  Like, like you're, you're, you're including all those
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  different people, like in your world and what they're going
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  through into like how you experience life.
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  That makes sense, yeah. And if, if you want to put your
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  most capitalist hat on and say, what's the business value of
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  empathy, you, you said it at the beginning, it makes people more
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  comfortable. And often times people make
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  better decisions or make broader decisions because they are
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  comfortable, they trust one another, they work more
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  efficiently. But another key piece of that is
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  that cognitive empathy that you talked about, where
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  understanding what someone's feeling is key to selling them
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  something, working with them, like all of the other things
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  that businesses businesses look for. 100% totally agree.
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  And the theme of this season is really kind of the future of
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  work, right? And a lot of people are talking
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  about AI and how things are going to get automated.
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  And empathy is something that AI doesn't have.
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  I recently heard someone describe AI as being a
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  psychopath who just like does things without thinking about
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  consequences or like thinking about feelings or empathy in any
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  way. Like the humans bring the
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  empathy, we build the relationships and we kind of
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  piece all these things together. And I don't see a world where
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  that ever goes away or isn't super valuable as a skill.
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  And it's something that like if you cone, you can be the
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  connector to kind of bring all those teams together and it's
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  never going to go out of style. Yeah, agreed.
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  Agreed. And Cara, do you have any
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  examples of where maybe you've been shown empathy or you've
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  shown empathy at work that you want to bring up?
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  Yeah, I'm trying to. I mean, I think it, it shows up
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  in a lot of places. Sometimes it's that first
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  impression, like when you're on an interview with someone or
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  you're interviewing on a company, the amount of empathy
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  that they extend to you, like the HR hiring manager and then
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  the people that you're interviewing with like, do they
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  offer you something to drink? Do they ask you how your commute
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  was? And some of that small talk is
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  like is actually again, showing that they have been in your
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  shoes. And so I feel like there's
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  empathy throughout your entire career, but I love those first
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  moments when you're like getting to see people right away and
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  seeing if they're prioritizing, just understanding how you're
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  feeling. Yeah, no, I love that.
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  And you're very good at that, by the way.
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  Come on. I was one story where I was once
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  like someone was kind of placed on my team and the situation
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  they came from was not great. And I kind of had to kind of
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  understand the situation, understand them, bring them into
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  the fold. And it took a lot of empathy on
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  my end to really understand like, what did they go through
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  in the past role? How are they feeling now?
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  Why were there issues like what can we work on together to make
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  sure like they feel comfortable we can also be a functioning
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  team. And it was really, it was, it
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  was a really good experience for me as a leader because I really
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  had to take a step back and like really seek to understand like
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  what happened without judgement. Because if you're given a
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  scenario that seems negative from the outside, it's sometimes
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  really easy to kind of like roll your eyes and be like, look, I
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  have to deal with this. But like, I tried to really kind
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  of step back and you're like, OK, let me ask questions.
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  Let me seek to understand, let me show empathy for this person
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  who is the one that's being bounced around.
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  And it honestly ended up being an amazing situation.
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  But it was definitely a lot of back and forth in the beginning
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  and a lot of empathy, I think, on both sides.
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  Yeah, it's always great when you connect with someone and you're
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  realizing that you're each trying to understand one
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  another. I feel like that's that's always
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  a powerful situation to be and lucky them that they got to be
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  on a better team with you. Thanks.
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  Also, there's a lot of data behind this.
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  We always like to bring out some stats here, right?
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  So 96% of employees say empathy is important in the workplace,
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  but only half believe their organization demonstrates it.
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  So we talked about this a little bit in the last episode.
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  But empathy is something that you might think everybody knows
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  about, but it's hard to practice.
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  And it's, it's really hard sometimes to find it in leaders
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  at different levels or different organizations.
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  And so empathetic leaders, they, they always have like a higher
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  retention rate, more engagement, more innovation.
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  But it is a skill that needs to be practiced and kind of honed.
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  It's funny, I feel like I'm empathetic by default and it's
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  constantly making my life better.
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  But I I hear what you're saying and I think about all the ways
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  that empathy is dismissed early on, especially when you're being
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  trained as a manager. It's like, what are the
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  efficiency numbers? You know, how fast did someone
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  get something done? Like thinking about quality,
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  thinking about business objectives and empathy helps
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  with all of that. Like I'll bring up, I'm
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  constantly empathetic during my commute.
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  Like I commute on public transportation.
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  There is stuff happening, you know, bonkers stuff happening
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  all the time. Just so many things.
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  You're meeting with people from all over.
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  And there's, again, I'm sort of empathetic by default.
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  So I'm often the one that's like picking up something or making
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  faces at the kid with the Barbie doll or like holding the door
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  for the dude with the stroller, like whatever it is.
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  And we board faster because of that.
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  Everyone feels better on the train because of that.
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  Like it just makes things go smoothly because suddenly you've
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  had some patience for someone and the whole mood is lifted a
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  little bit, even on an early morning commute.
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  So I just say that as like, if anyone's thinking, Oh yeah, it's
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  hard to be empathetic or I actually haven't had time to
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  think about other people's feelings because I have this
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  long To Do List. Like being empathetic to someone
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  is going to then have them run and get you coffee or them offer
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  to type your notes or them share their notes or whatever it is.
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  Like it always makes things smoother.
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  You get what you get, and I have to say that is one of the most
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  beautiful things about you as a human being, Cara.
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  You are so aware of everyone around you.
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  You're so empathetic, and you're always like willing to help her
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  step in no matter what. So I just have to give you kudos
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  for that because you are excellent at showing up to even
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  strangers. Yeah, constantly.
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  I'm like, I'm not to be like I do it by default.
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  So when you were saying it's hard, I was like, I do it by
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  default all the time. You're an amazing human, no?
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  I'm not looking for the compliments.
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  I like. I know there are other people
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  out there like me that are like, I just do it because I actually
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  find that one of the flip sides of it is that Then when someone
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  doesn't extend that same courtesy to me, I'm like, what
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  the actual F Like I get really like like when someone doesn't
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  share their armrests with me. I'm like, this was the simplest
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  of gestures and I'm sure that they don't even know that they
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  haven't shared their armrests with me but.
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  I am the same way. I totally totally get that.
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  So we talk about empathy being super powerful but but why
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  doesn't it always come as second nature?
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  And why is it hard? I think one of the biggest
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  pieces of it is it does require a level of vulnerability, right?
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  Like you have to, you have to ask questions, you have to show
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  like things about yourself. You have to kind of show your
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  energy and what might be going on.
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  You need to ask questions. You have to like take a step
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  back and leave space for someone to share what might be going on
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  in their lives if they're comfortable.
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  And that creates a different kind of environment at work
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  where maybe it's not about the work, but it's about what's
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  going on in their personal life or what happened to them this
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  morning or something like that. So it just requires a level of
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  space for vulnerability, which I think takes some practice.
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  Shout out to Brené Brown, if you've never read her book about
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  vulnerability. It is excellent.
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  And being vulnerable is a superpower.
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  And so I think that's one of the reasons that maybe it's not as
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  it doesn't come as easy to some people.
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  But what do you think, Carl? I think of it as you have it,
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  Empathy requires you just have two head spaces at once.
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  You're holding your own thoughts and then you're holding what
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  someone else might be perceived like what someone else might be
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  feeling. You're perceiving what they
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  might be feeling when you ask them.
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  Then you may get some insight into what they're actually
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  feeling, but you are seeing their reality and yours at the
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  same time. Again, we talked about you're
• 13:45
  holding the two together. So that's how I think about it.
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  And that is, you're making space in your head for someone else.
• 13:51
  Yeah. And it also to that point, car,
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  it requires you to slow down a bit, right?
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  Take a step back and reflect. Sometimes we're going, we're
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  going, we're going and we're at work and we're like trying to
• 14:00
  get things done. Sometimes it takes a minute to
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  just be like, hey, like, are you good?
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  Like let's talk about this. Is something going on?
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  Like it's also one of those things that might not be
• 14:10
  measurable or like necessarily rewarded, but it's something
• 14:14
  that can propel your team forward and can be so impactful.
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  I like to talk about it as like the how, the how things get
• 14:22
  done, the how you manage your team, the how your team
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  interacts and that how is so important for you to achieve the
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  what. Yeah, that's so true.
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  So in terms of what to work on and from an empathy perspective,
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  like what can you practice? Like what are some things that
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  you can start thinking about? We already talked about this in
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  the last episode, but I'm definitely going to double click
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  on it. Active listening, Cara really
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  hit on this point. I think it's super, super
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  important. Practice active listening by not
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  preparing your answer in your head, but actually like
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  listening to what they're saying, taking a breath, then
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  responding emotional resonance. So feeling the same amount of
• 15:04
  happiness or even sadness or even just kind of relating to
• 15:08
  the situation, even if it doesn't personally affect you,
• 15:10
  giving them space and being there for them and allowing them
• 15:13
  to feel their emotions and supporting that as well.
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  And I think Cara, you do that really well.
• 15:17
  Well, I was going to say, I recently have learned the
• 15:21
  importance of being able to sit with someone in negative
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  feelings. I used to think that.
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  I used to downplay that and not think that it was as important
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  because it's pretty uncomfortable when you can't
• 15:34
  solve someone's problem, but they're going through something
• 15:38
  that's often unsolvable. You just want to sort of help.
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  You want to relieve. Like if you think about when
• 15:43
  someone loses someone, you send a casserole, you send the
• 15:45
  flowers, like that feels good. But actually sitting with
• 15:48
  someone in the grief and being like, yeah, I'm going to miss
• 15:52
  them too. Oh, tell me the stories that,
• 15:54
  you know, are reminding you of this person that you lost so
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  similarly, you know, at work. It's like, yeah, that does suck
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  that you like lost that account or, you know, whatever the case
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  may be, sometimes that is what someone needs is that little bit
• 16:08
  of like venting recognition and not being alone with their
• 16:12
  disappointment. I like that to call that feeling
• 16:15
  the feelings feel the feels like allowing someone to feel their
• 16:18
  feelings and being there to support them in that and not
• 16:20
  necessarily fix it. To your point, Carl, the other
• 16:23
  thing is perspective taking. So let's say for example,
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  something happened again in their personal lives or there
• 16:29
  was a family issue. Like especially if you're a
• 16:31
  leader, like allowing flexibility, giving them space
• 16:35
  to come in late or leave early or take a day off, or just
• 16:39
  understanding their situation, being like, hey, these are the
• 16:42
  priorities we need to get to like do what you need to do.
• 16:45
  Like to get there, take some time, work odd hours, like don't
• 16:50
  come on camera, whatever that looks like.
• 16:52
  Just like sharing the perspective of that experience
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  and then allowing them the space to handle it in a way that they
• 16:59
  can process. But also obviously, like you're
• 17:03
  still at work and you still need to get some things done, but
• 17:06
  like making sure that they're in the right space to be able to do
• 17:09
  both. Yeah, and I think perspective
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  taking also can extend in another way where something
• 17:16
  happens at the office or maybe you're in charge and you've
• 17:19
  changed something and you're thinking about all the good
• 17:22
  things that that change is bringing.
• 17:24
  But perspective taking, thinking about it empathetically, often
• 17:29
  times you can look and see like it might be impacting how
• 17:32
  someone else is feeling about their role or how their roles
• 17:34
  are shifted or what their norm was.
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  And sometimes it's things that you wouldn't even know about.
• 17:40
  Like they always start their Mondays looking at the
• 17:43
  newsletter e-mail, but now you've rerouted the newsletter
• 17:46
  e-mail to an AI robot and they don't have that direct feedback
• 17:49
  from the newsletter readers. Like, so if you don't know what
• 17:53
  it is like understanding, hey, do you think this change is
• 17:55
  going to impact you? Or I noticed you were quiet when
• 17:58
  I announced this change. What are you thinking about it?
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  But taking their perspective, even when it comes to like
• 18:04
  business changes or, you know, shifts that your whole team
• 18:09
  might be going through, like, how might that be impacting
• 18:11
  everyone else? The other thing I think that's
• 18:13
  really important is a curiosity over judgment.
• 18:16
  I kind of said this in the beginning, but I try to keep
• 18:18
  seek to understand as like a a sentence that replays in my
• 18:22
  head. So asking good questions and
• 18:25
  really going into any conversation or any perspective
• 18:28
  and just not trying to have a perceived angle or like
• 18:33
  assumption of what it is and just being like, hey, what's
• 18:36
  going on? Like, tell me about this.
• 18:38
  Let me ask you these questions. And then from there kind of
• 18:41
  creating a response or a solution based on the
• 18:47
  understanding in the context of the other person.
• 18:50
  Yeah, I feel like the phrase just say more can do so much and
• 18:53
  you aren't actually brought me this thing that I think about a
• 18:57
  lot where you're like, don't yuck someone's Yum.
• 19:00
  And I I think about that all the time where I'm like, am I
• 19:04
  labeling something early? And without knowing that it's
• 19:08
  someone else, someone else cares about it, you know?
• 19:11
  I'm so glad that that one stuck. Oh yeah.
• 19:15
  Yeah, don't yuck anyone's Yum. Usually that comes up when it
• 19:17
  comes to food, but it is relevant in the business world.
• 19:21
  So what are some good practices that might be helpful to
• 19:25
  practice empathy? So I have a couple in car.
• 19:27
  I'd love to hear your thoughts. The five minute pause before
• 19:31
  responding or or before a tense or emotional like conversation
• 19:37
  or experience. I also kind of take this for
• 19:40
  like going for a walk after something happened or something
• 19:44
  big or you just have a big feelings or reaction to
• 19:47
  something, taking a pause, whatever that looks like before
• 19:51
  responding, before writing the e-mail.
• 19:54
  Sometimes I write the e-mail, walk away, come back to it, just
• 19:56
  like taking that pause to understand what's happening from
• 20:00
  the other person before kind of jumping to conclusions.
• 20:04
  The other one is mirroring back what you hear.
• 20:06
  So if someone said something to you and maybe you had a reaction
• 20:10
  to it and you don't really understand, instead of asking a
• 20:13
  question, you can always say, OK, just to clarify, what I'm
• 20:15
  hearing is this. And then that allows the other
• 20:19
  person to kind of clarify and potentially add more context,
• 20:22
  which allows you to kind of sit back and be like, oh, I now see
• 20:25
  what's happening. OK, let's come to the table to
• 20:28
  cover together to find a solution.
• 20:30
  Carl, what about you? Do you have any kind of good
• 20:32
  empathy? Practices, yeah.
• 20:34
  I think 1 is I like to ask people like, how did that land
• 20:39
  for you? I like that one, especially when
• 20:43
  it is something where you're announcing something new.
• 20:47
  I think another really great phrase is just like, I want to
• 20:50
  understand or I want to, you know, we're on the same team.
• 20:54
  Just reinforcing shared values that you do have or shared
• 20:57
  values that you want to have with the person and seeing how
• 21:00
  they respond to that. Because ultimately empathy
• 21:04
  requires kindness. And I love.
• 21:07
  That Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I was having a friend of mine
• 21:12
  who's from the Midwest was explaining the difference
• 21:14
  between kind and nice to me the other day and I really That's a.
• 21:19
  Good one. Liked that of just being kind as
• 21:23
  you're coming from a good place and you want goodness for other
• 21:26
  people, being nice is sort of a little bit more of a surface
• 21:29
  thing. I'm often kind, but I'm not as
• 21:31
  often nice. I don't always appear nice, but
• 21:35
  I am doing kind things. And so I would say that empathy
• 21:39
  always requires you to be kind. You can do that in a super nice
• 21:41
  way and then you're perceived even better.
• 21:43
  I recommend that for people listening, but empathy has to
• 21:46
  come from a kind place. That is an excellent
• 21:49
  distinction. There is a big difference
• 21:51
  between nice and being kind that every state has a different rap
• 21:56
  in terms of like if they're kind or they're nice or like how they
• 22:00
  how they react to different situations.
• 22:03
  And kindness does it comes from a place of like caring about the
• 22:06
  person and like wanting the best for them.
• 22:08
  And nice can just be like, to your point, surface level and
• 22:11
  it's just like, yeah, I'm just being nice, but like not caring
• 22:14
  deeply about someone. And there's a big difference
• 22:15
  between the two. Yeah.
• 22:18
  So Cara, because of this future of work piece, I really kind of
• 22:21
  want to tie it back to like empathy being a superpower for
• 22:24
  people to hone in on. So let me ask you this, why do
• 22:28
  you think that empathy is going to become even more important in
• 22:32
  the world of AI? Well, you already talked a
• 22:35
  little bit about AI being a a psychopath or a sociopath, and I
• 22:40
  think that's really true. If you think about the way that
• 22:42
  it's making decisions, it's not really factoring in human need
• 22:46
  and emotion. It's working off of a database
• 22:50
  and sort of getting to this aggregate point a lot of the
• 22:54
  time. So it's what makes it good at
• 22:56
  analyzing data, but not good at making critical decisions.
• 23:01
  I go back to, you know, I'm in marketing and empathy is a key
• 23:05
  way for us to sort of understand what motivates people and how
• 23:09
  best to talk to them. And so in the world of AI, where
• 23:15
  things are moving faster, making sure that your baseline is still
• 23:20
  that kind understanding of putting yourself into other
• 23:25
  people's shoes and appreciating their human experience is really
• 23:31
  critical to producing any work that's going to resonate with
• 23:34
  folks or any communication that's going to resonate with
• 23:36
  folks or identifying any future products that people might need
• 23:40
  that speak to their emotional needs.
• 23:41
  So yeah, it's key. And.
• 23:44
  I also think that a lot of the challenge inside an organization
• 23:48
  is also getting different functions or different people to
• 23:52
  work together and talk to each other and like be on the same
• 23:56
  page. And you have to have empathy to
• 23:58
  do that because everybody's coming to the scenario or the
• 24:01
  problem or the product or the consumer, whatever it is, your
• 24:04
  business is from a different place.
• 24:07
  So if you can be that connector, if you can be the one that's
• 24:11
  helping to drive the conversation together, if you
• 24:14
  can pull everyone in and have them understand why it's
• 24:17
  important to be at the table and want to collaborate, that is a
• 24:20
  huge skill set and it is so, so important.
• 24:24
  I like to call it kind of like the quarterback role.
• 24:26
  That is a talent that is no matter what going to be
• 24:31
  beneficial, especially I think in the future world, because
• 24:34
  there's going to be more orchestration versus like hands
• 24:38
  on keyboard work. And orchestration usually means
• 24:41
  multiple people coming together to do the same task, but they
• 24:45
  might have different goals. So again, card to your point,
• 24:48
  like you have to tell the story, you have to get them on board,
• 24:50
  You have to have help them understand why they should
• 24:53
  participate. And that's a really, really
• 24:54
  important skill set. Yeah, I think ultimately people
• 24:57
  like feeling understood, and empathy is a huge tool for you
• 25:02
  to understand people better and make them feel understood.
• 25:06
  I agree. So key takeaways, Empathy is not
• 25:10
  a weakness, it is a huge leadership asset and it can be
• 25:14
  learned and can be practiced. Empathy can help build trust
• 25:20
  faster and create an amazing environment that feels more like
• 25:24
  a community inside your team. So how can you think about
• 25:27
  practicing it as a leader and then also helping your team
• 25:30
  members practice it? So picking one or two different
• 25:33
  things to try to enable more empathy inside of your team.
• 25:38
  And then the people who understand the humans will lead
• 25:42
  the people who understand the machines at the end of the day,
• 25:45
  like the humans are the ones that are orchestrating all of
• 25:47
  this. We will always be the ones
• 25:48
  orchestrating all of this. And the more that you can
• 25:50
  connect people, tell a story and bring everyone together, the
• 25:54
  more important it's going to be for for you and for the
• 25:57
  organization. All right, go out there and be
• 25:59
  kind. Everyone be.
• 26:01
  Kind. That's a wrap.
• 26:03
  Thanks for joining us on Unspoken Career Truths.
• 26:05
  Don't forget to follow us on Spotify and Instagram.
• 26:08
  And if you like this episode, share it with a friend.