Latest / The Occult Rejects / The Soap-Maker of Correggio: Murder, Motherhood, and Folk Horror with Weekly Bizarre Podcast

Transcript

The Soap-Maker of Correggio: Murder, Motherhood, and Folk Horror with Weekly Bizarre Podcast · The Occult Rejects

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: You see, something's going to happen.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: What's going to happen? What? Welcome back to the occult rejects.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: Today we're stepping into one of the darkest corners of
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: modern Italian crime, folklore, superstition, motherhood, and madness. The story
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: of Leonardo Chancilly, remembered by history as the soap maker
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: of Coreggio. And this is not just another serial killers story.
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: This is a story about fear dressed up as devotion,
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: murder disguised as ritual, and a woman who believed that blood,
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: sacrifice and human remains could protect the people she loved
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: from death. Chancilly was not some shadowy figure hiding in
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: an abandoned cast or some mythic witch from a medieval
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: trial record. She was a mother, a shoekeeper, a neighbor,
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: a woman people trusted. She read fortunes, she baked cookies,
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: She welcomed the women into her home, and then, according
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: to her own confession, she killed them, dismembered them, rendered
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: their bodies, and transformed them into soap and pastries. This
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: is where the case becomes more than a crime. It
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: becomes folklore. In real time, it becomes the nightmare version
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: of the village wise woman, the maternal protector, the kitchen witch,
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: the fortune teller, and the sacrificial priestess, all twisted into
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: one figure. Chauntilly believed she was cursed from birth. She
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: believed death followed her children. She believed her son's life
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: required offerings. Whether we read that is mental illness, superstition,
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: magical thinking, trauma, or cold blooded manipulation. The result was
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: the same. People entered her world and never left it alive.
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: And to cover this topic, we are joined by the
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: weekly bizarre podcast Jessica and Montana, a show that lives
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: right in the uncomfortable little crossroads where the spooky, the macabre,
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: the strange, and the dark side of humanity all start
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: bleeding into each other. They cover the weird, the dark,
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: the cursed, the haunted, and the stories that make you
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: laugh for a second before you realize how disturbing they
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: actually are. So this is a perfect crossover for a
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: case like this because the soap maker of Coreggio is
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: not clean horror. It is domestic horror. It is kitchen
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: table horror. It is the horror of women who turned
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: the tools of care, food, home, and motherhood into instruments
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: of death and before I introduce the guests and the
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: other co hosts, I also want to remind people about
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: the website. If you're into reading, we have tons of
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: information by multiple contributors, and we got t shirts up
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: on the site if you're interested. Fun fact, the art
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: is all based on the eyeball and possibly coming soon
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: there might be a substack. I'll let everybody know what's
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: going on with that. And now let me get to
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: everybody else and what is going up? Judith, how will you?
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: Fine? Thank you for having me. It's nice to see
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: the ladies from the Weekly Bizarre back on you guys
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: hit some interesting topics and everyone else. You could find
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: me on Speaker YouTube and asks as the Loom.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, thank you very much. And Bennett my man?
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: What is going on? Sir? How will you? Hey?
• 3:25
  Speaker 4: Everybody, it's nice to meet you ladies. Nice to meet
• 3:28
  Speaker 4: you virtually at least. I'm Bennett Tanton from the Broadcasting
• 3:33
  Speaker 4: Seeds podcast. You can find me at Broadcasting Seeds dot
• 3:37
  Speaker 4: com or at Bennett tantonbooks dot com.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, thank you very much for joining us. Bennette
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: and Montana. Please let everybody know what the deal is
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: with you and if you want to have advertised the
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: show before we get to Jessica or whatever. Anything you
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: like to adveratiz.
• 3:56
  Speaker 5: Yeah, weekly but sorry podcast.
• 3:57
  Speaker 6: You can find us on all the social media, yes,
• 4:00
  Speaker 6: and if you want to email us week it is
• 4:02
  Speaker 6: our podcast at gmail dot com.
• 4:04
  Speaker 5: And you basically summed up our show for us perfect.
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: All right, cool, cool, thank you? And Jessica, what's going on? Jessica?
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: Do you want to let everybody know maybe they can
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: find you on social media or something and plug anything
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: you like to do put out there?
• 4:16
  Speaker 7: She said it. We're everywhere. We're on Facebook, We're on YouTube.
• 4:20
  Speaker 7: We do have a YouTube channel if you want to
• 4:22
  Speaker 7: see our lovely faces while we tell our stories, and
• 4:26
  Speaker 7: we're on Instagram. All at Weekly is our podcast, And yeah,
• 4:30
  Speaker 7: you did a pretty good job at telling what we do.
• 4:32
  Speaker 7: We just we cover anything ranging from supernatural to true crime.
• 4:36
  Speaker 7: If that sounds like something you're into, check us out.
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: You have your bloopers rail up on YouTube. I highly
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: suggest people to check that out.
• 4:45
  Speaker 7: Of it, Yeah, putting on our Patreon.
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: But I just thought it was so funny because that
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: even happened to me again recently when I was recording,
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: I was like, Yo, what the fuck? It can't stop burping,
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: and I just thought it.
• 4:59
  Speaker 7: Was right now, So.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: I just find it funny when it chick doesn't even
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: whatever doesn't zero Fox. Ande's like, yeah, we barb, you
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: know it's real nice. So, uh, this this topic was
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: who who came across this? Was this you Jessica, you Montana?
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: Who came across this topic?
• 5:19
  Speaker 7: It was me?
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: Awesome nice?
• 5:22
  Speaker 7: How did you have this? I'm pretty sure I was
• 5:25
  Speaker 7: researching another episode, wasn't. I'm Montana.
• 5:30
  Speaker 6: That's what usually happens. But I think you're going to
• 5:33
  Speaker 6: do an episode. You're like, no, no, no, I found
• 5:34
  Speaker 6: this episode even better. So I think that's how you
• 5:37
  Speaker 6: came across it.
• 5:38
  Speaker 7: I think I don't remember. I think it maybe have
• 5:41
  Speaker 7: would have been the Dollmaker guy. I'm not sure, but anyway,
• 5:45
  Speaker 7: I was looking for cases that were about people who
• 5:48
  Speaker 7: preserved bodies in one way or another and this came
• 5:51
  Speaker 7: up on the list. I was like, oh, what's this,
• 5:53
  Speaker 7: and so the rest is history. I looked into it
• 5:56
  Speaker 7: and I'm like, dang, I did not realize it was
• 5:58
  Speaker 7: going to be like that.
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: Really yeah, So, uh, how do you pronounce a less name?
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: Leonarda Chanchuli? Oh Chanchuli. Okay, it makes sense. It looks
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: like I've.
• 6:11
  Speaker 7: Had a lot of practice with that.
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: Serious. I saw that, and it's funny. Before when I
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: looked at it, I had an idea in my head,
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: and then when I looked at it again, I was like,
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: I don't even know how to say this now.
• 6:21
  Speaker 7: Yeah, Leonarda Chanchuli, I believe If I'm wrong, sorry, guys,
• 6:25
  Speaker 7: but I'm the best.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: And this takes place in Italy and what like the
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: nineteen forties or fifties or something like that.
• 6:31
  Speaker 7: Yep, thirties, forties, mm hmmm.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: Nice.
• 6:35
  Speaker 7: But I will go back a little bit just to
• 6:37
  Speaker 7: kind of give a little brief history of how she
• 6:40
  Speaker 7: ended up being the way she was.
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: Okay, so.
• 6:46
  Speaker 7: Yeah, if you're ready.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, let's do it. Let's go get into Jessica.
• 6:53
  Speaker 7: Okay. So I'm going to go back to Leonarda's mom first,
• 6:58
  Speaker 7: just to give you a little backstore.
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: Blame it on the parents.
• 7:02
  Speaker 7: Blaming it on the parents, Yeah, a lot of it
• 7:04
  Speaker 7: can be blamed on Yeah. Yeah, this is one of
• 7:08
  Speaker 7: those cases where part of you kind of wants to
• 7:11
  Speaker 7: feel sorry for Leonarda, but she's so fushed up that
• 7:17
  Speaker 7: you kind of can't but anyway. So Leonarda's mother was
• 7:21
  Speaker 7: Amelia Danolfi. She was born in the small town of Montella, Italy,
• 7:27
  Speaker 7: and her family was well off. They had a high
• 7:31
  Speaker 7: social status, so they were well to do, they were
• 7:33
  Speaker 7: well respected, and it was their hope that Amelia. Her
• 7:40
  Speaker 7: parents hope that Amelia would land a wealthy man to
• 7:42
  Speaker 7: give her the life that she wanted, just continue to
• 7:46
  Speaker 7: be wealthy, YadA YadA. So she was basically being courted
• 7:51
  Speaker 7: by all her suitors and she was going to parties
• 7:55
  Speaker 7: things like that, and after one specific party, she was
• 8:00
  Speaker 7: leaving to head home and she was alone, and little
• 8:05
  Speaker 7: did she know that she had been being followed by
• 8:08
  Speaker 7: some creepy ass dude who was basically the town drunk
• 8:13
  Speaker 7: and was known for just being a huge loser. He
• 8:17
  Speaker 7: had his eye on her for a while because she
• 8:19
  Speaker 7: was known to be very attractive. He saw her leaving
• 8:23
  Speaker 7: walking home alone, so he snagged her up. And just
• 8:26
  Speaker 7: a little disclaimer trigger warning, there is essay and suicide
• 8:32
  Speaker 7: things like that are all throughout this, so just buckle
• 8:35
  Speaker 7: in and be ready for it. So Mariano, the town drunk,
• 8:40
  Speaker 7: his last name was Chanchuli, if that gives you any
• 8:42
  Speaker 7: idea of where I'm going with this. So he snags
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  Speaker 7: her up, takes her to the side, rapes her, has
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  Speaker 7: his way with her, leaves her there, and she has
• 8:55
  Speaker 7: no idea what the heck just happened to her because
• 8:58
  Speaker 7: she was I mean she was she was only like
• 9:01
  Speaker 7: sixteen years old at this time, so she really and
• 9:05
  Speaker 7: she was very sheltered, so she was like, what what
• 9:07
  Speaker 7: did he do? At first she thought he was just
• 9:09
  Speaker 7: trying to like rob her or something, but then she
• 9:13
  Speaker 7: puts herself together, gets home, goes to bed, realizes the
• 9:17
  Speaker 7: next morning probably what had happened, but she decided not
• 9:21
  Speaker 7: to tell anyone, And so as time goes on, she's
• 9:27
  Speaker 7: not getting her period. She realizes, oh, okay, this is
• 9:31
  Speaker 7: more serious than what I thought, and eventually she couldn't
• 9:34
  Speaker 7: hide it anymore. So she has to tell her parents
• 9:39
  Speaker 7: what happened because one of her little servant made ladies.
• 9:43
  Speaker 7: It's like, I haven't washed your soiled linens in a while.
• 9:47
  Speaker 7: I don't think you're getting your period. I'm telling so
• 9:50
  Speaker 7: she I think they had to as servants back then,
• 9:52
  Speaker 7: it was like their responsibility to go and inform the
• 9:55
  Speaker 7: parents of something like that because they were probably keeping
• 9:58
  Speaker 7: track because they were weird. But so nonetheless, the servant
• 10:03
  Speaker 7: goes tells the parents. They confront Amelia and they suspect
• 10:10
  Speaker 7: that it was probably one of her suitors. So the
• 10:12
  Speaker 7: dad's like, who was it? Who was the guy that
• 10:14
  Speaker 7: did this to you? I'm going to knock on every
• 10:16
  Speaker 7: door if you don't tell me, and I'm going to
• 10:18
  Speaker 7: figure this out. So she was forced to tell them
• 10:21
  Speaker 7: what happened, and this is this part. I'm like, wow,
• 10:26
  Speaker 7: this is pretty fucked up. So after she tells her parents,
• 10:33
  Speaker 7: instead of tracking Mariono down and beating his ass or
• 10:38
  Speaker 7: calling the police or something like that, they instead invite
• 10:43
  Speaker 7: him and his family over for dinner, have a nice
• 10:47
  Speaker 7: little dinner together, and they suggest that the two get
• 10:51
  Speaker 7: married because they feel like this is the only way
• 10:55
  Speaker 7: that they're going to be able to preserve their reputation
• 10:59
  Speaker 7: and they're social standing. So Amelia essentially has no say
• 11:04
  Speaker 7: and what's happening here? And keep in mind, this guy,
• 11:09
  Speaker 7: Mariano is a loser, like he has no job, he
• 11:14
  Speaker 7: has no money, he drinks all the time. So the
• 11:19
  Speaker 7: life that she knows versus the life that she's about
• 11:22
  Speaker 7: to be thrown into is like night and day. But
• 11:27
  Speaker 7: that's the deal. So that's what happens, and they pack
• 11:31
  Speaker 7: her up, they get them married, and send her off
• 11:34
  Speaker 7: to the slums and Montella, and she's pregnant, waiting to
• 11:41
  Speaker 7: have this baby with this man that essentially beats her,
• 11:45
  Speaker 7: rapes her over and over and over again when he's
• 11:48
  Speaker 7: not bored, or when he's bored and not out drinking
• 11:50
  Speaker 7: somewhere else, leaves her home alone all the time. So
• 11:54
  Speaker 7: she's pissed, she's resentful, she hates life. She's like, why
• 11:59
  Speaker 7: is this happening to me? I don't know what's going on?
• 12:03
  Speaker 7: And that spills over into her baby as well, so
• 12:07
  Speaker 7: she starts resenting the baby because she blames her for
• 12:12
  Speaker 7: what's happened to her. And it's really the only controlled
• 12:16
  Speaker 7: I think that she felt like she had, because I mean,
• 12:18
  Speaker 7: she's powerless against her husband, so the next best thing
• 12:23
  Speaker 7: is to take it out on this baby. So that's
• 12:28
  Speaker 7: what she did, and on April fourteenth, eighteen ninety four,
• 12:32
  Speaker 7: she gave birth to Leonarda, and from the moment she
• 12:38
  Speaker 7: was born, there was resentment, violence, emotional neglect, the whole deal.
• 12:43
  Speaker 7: She never wanted her daughter, and she let her know
• 12:47
  Speaker 7: it too, Like Leonarda was well aware that she was
• 12:51
  Speaker 7: not wanted. Her whole childhood was just a living hell
• 12:54
  Speaker 7: from day one. Yeah, very shitty situation. But you know
• 13:00
  Speaker 7: a lot of stories like this start in places like this.
• 13:04
  Speaker 7: You know, it starts in the home, It starts with
• 13:06
  Speaker 7: the parents. What was the upbringing?
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: Like, so very unfortunate.
• 13:16
  Speaker 7: Yeah, we look to depress people if you weren't aware,
• 13:21
  Speaker 7: to go to the dark side and talk about really
• 13:23
  Speaker 7: morbid shit.
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: Sorry, guys, you're good.
• 13:29
  Speaker 7: So by the time that Leonardo was thirteen, she had
• 13:33
  Speaker 7: already tried. Sorry again, she had already tried to commit
• 13:38
  Speaker 7: suicide twice by hanging herself. In both times she failed.
• 13:44
  Speaker 7: She tried to I think it was like a bed
• 13:46
  Speaker 7: sheet or something that she tied up on a post
• 13:49
  Speaker 7: and tried to hang herself, but it kept coming apart
• 13:53
  Speaker 7: and she just tumbled to the floor. And her mom
• 13:56
  Speaker 7: was well aware that she was doing this and didn't
• 13:58
  Speaker 7: give two ships because she was a big bitch.
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: But you know, yeah, she already don't want her anyway.
• 14:06
  Speaker 7: Yeah, until she got older. Until Leonarda got older, and
• 14:13
  Speaker 7: this is when her mom started to take some interest
• 14:17
  Speaker 7: in her. And this is because Leonarda inherited Amelia's good looks,
• 14:23
  Speaker 7: and she thought, you know, my name is tainted, but
• 14:28
  Speaker 7: Leonarda's isn't, and we still have the family name. So
• 14:32
  Speaker 7: maybe I can find her a suitor that can get
• 14:35
  Speaker 7: us out of this situation. So she starts looking on
• 14:39
  Speaker 7: her own. She's on a little vision quest of her
• 14:42
  Speaker 7: own to find a husband for her beautiful daughter, to
• 14:45
  Speaker 7: get her ass out of this situation. And she doesn't
• 14:51
  Speaker 7: tell Leonarda that she's doing this, so Leonarda is completely
• 14:56
  Speaker 7: unaware that her mom is looking for some rich guy
• 14:59
  Speaker 7: to get them out out of their situation. And in
• 15:03
  Speaker 7: the meantime, Leonarda is like, I don't want anything to
• 15:07
  Speaker 7: do with that kind of life. She's looking for her
• 15:09
  Speaker 7: own man who actually cares about her, who actually wants
• 15:15
  Speaker 7: to take care of her in ways that she's never
• 15:18
  Speaker 7: been taken care of before, like emotionally nurture her, things
• 15:23
  Speaker 7: like that. And she found the guy. So this guy's
• 15:28
  Speaker 7: name is Raphael Ponsarti, and he is a good guy
• 15:33
  Speaker 7: through all of this crazy shit. He stands by her
• 15:37
  Speaker 7: side till the very end. It's pretty crazy. He must
• 15:40
  Speaker 7: have loved her. It's crazy, isn't it Montana I love.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, so he was with the why she was
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: slay motherfuckers and everything yep.
• 15:54
  Speaker 7: The whole time. Granted he didn't know, but there's all
• 15:58
  Speaker 7: kinds of other shit going on that he had to
• 16:00
  Speaker 7: deal with that we'll get to in a little bit.
• 16:03
  Speaker 7: But she was not easy. She was not easy.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: Maybe she was a freak. That's what kept to my office.
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: I am that, I am the father of four daughters, okay,
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: and this is some fucked up kid, Like I mean, wow, wow,
• 16:27
  Speaker 4: yo wild. I've been around the world and seeing some
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: wacky ship, but I see this as going, wow, so
• 16:37
  Speaker 4: pretty awesome.
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: Imagine being brought up like made to be like, you know,
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: I didn't even want you, and then when it's time
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: to get married, that motherfucker tells you who to marry too,
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: Like that's such like so fucked that's a mind fuck.
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: I go ahead. Oh did Jessica freeze? I think she's frozen.
• 16:57
  Speaker 5: She looks frozen Froze.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 17:00
  Speaker 5: She's a storyteller too.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: I know I was gonna be like, oh.
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: Shit, I might have missed it. I do have a question. Well,
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: while we get Jessica back, how old was she when
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: the incident happened, because she's talking about thirteen.
• 17:14
  Speaker 4: Well that was the mother, I think.
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I started getting refused. The first story I thought
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: was the lady at first, until I realized I was
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: a malie.
• 17:23
  Speaker 4: The incident with the incident, with the rape and all,
• 17:28
  Speaker 4: that was the mother.
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: Oh so this problem is so this goes back to
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: the grandparents, not even the mother mother.
• 17:36
  Speaker 4: Yeah, well no, this is her mother. So that the
• 17:39
  Speaker 4: woman who turned into this monster, it's her mother was
• 17:43
  Speaker 4: where this all started. Well yeah, but even yes, you're right,
• 17:48
  Speaker 4: the grandparents were all fucked up because they were like, oh, well,
• 17:51
  Speaker 4: what just marry this guy? So you know he you know,
• 17:55
  Speaker 4: he raped you and all this other stuff. But let's let's,
• 17:59
  Speaker 4: you know, save the honor of the family. We're gonna
• 18:03
  Speaker 4: we're gonna betrothe you to this loser that you hate
• 18:07
  Speaker 4: and that raped you. So the woman, the woman that
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: that does all the taint of ship is the daughter
• 18:15
  Speaker 4: of that.
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: So that brings a whole new definition to generational curse trauma.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: Right, among other things, I'm just saying, I think there
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: is actually, well I don't want to jump the gun, Jessica,
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: but I do think like there's a curse that comes
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: into play to at some point.
• 18:32
  Speaker 7: Yes, there is.
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: Oh do you know? Oh, now we lost you? Can
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: we hear you? Can you hear us? Still? We lost
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: your video?
• 18:40
  Speaker 7: Oh my god, I don't even know what we can
• 18:42
  Speaker 7: hear you.
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: That's that's that's the most important thing. We can hear you. This,
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: It's okay. See I shouldn't have told you we were
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: going live.
• 18:49
  Speaker 7: Uh.
• 18:52
  Speaker 5: This happens to us all the time. We're so used
• 18:54
  Speaker 5: to it.
• 18:55
  Speaker 7: It does all the time.
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: Do you know how I want these stories getting out? Yeah?
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: Do you know how old the Leonarda was when she
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: was getting married?
• 19:10
  Speaker 7: She was she was somewhere around her late teens. I
• 19:16
  Speaker 7: believe she was probably around seventeen eighteen.
• 19:20
  Speaker 5: I think that sounds about right.
• 19:22
  Speaker 7: Actually, yeah, yeah, hang on, let me see if I
• 19:27
  Speaker 7: can get my camera back here. I don't know what
• 19:30
  Speaker 7: the hell's going on, But yeah, she was probably around
• 19:38
  Speaker 7: seventeen eighteen.
• 19:40
  Speaker 5: Still a baby, mm hmm.
• 19:43
  Speaker 7: Yeah, but she was ready to get the hell out
• 19:45
  Speaker 7: of Dodge. She was done with her mom's bullshit.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: Oh haven't now got something spinning?
• 20:05
  Speaker 7: Jeez, I guess I'll keep talking while this.
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: Ways.
• 20:13
  Speaker 4: We're just looking at the spinning wheel.
• 20:17
  Speaker 7: That's what it is, the spinning wheel of death.
• 20:22
  Speaker 4: We can't perfect.
• 20:25
  Speaker 7: Oh man, that sucks. So she tells her mom that
• 20:30
  Speaker 7: she's out of there. She's going to be leaving, she's
• 20:34
  Speaker 7: going to be marrying Raphael. And of course Amelia's pissed
• 20:40
  Speaker 7: because she wants to be rich. She wants to get
• 20:43
  Speaker 7: out of the slums and get back to the life
• 20:47
  Speaker 7: that she knew before. But Leonarda stands her ground and
• 20:55
  Speaker 7: stands up to her mom and she's like, it's not happening, mom,
• 20:58
  Speaker 7: I'm out of here. So this is the curse comes
• 21:01
  Speaker 7: into play. And according to Leonarda, her mother said to
• 21:10
  Speaker 7: her that her life would be filled with misery and
• 21:13
  Speaker 7: suffering until the day she died, and that belief would
• 21:18
  Speaker 7: follow her for the rest of her life. And Amelia
• 21:22
  Speaker 7: never spoke to her again after that. She's completely disowned her.
• 21:26
  Speaker 7: She didn't go to their wedding. She just had nothing
• 21:29
  Speaker 7: to do with her. If she saw her around town,
• 21:31
  Speaker 7: she'd act like she didn't see her. So it was
• 21:35
  Speaker 7: a mess. It was a mess. So the reason that
• 21:47
  Speaker 7: she believed in this curse so much is because at
• 21:50
  Speaker 7: this time they're the Romani people. I don't know if
• 21:55
  Speaker 7: you've ever heard of them before, but they were pretty
• 21:58
  Speaker 7: prevalent in the area, so a lot of their traditions
• 22:03
  Speaker 7: and like occult beliefs were passed on to these people,
• 22:09
  Speaker 7: even though they weren't very well liked. It's still kind
• 22:13
  Speaker 7: of overflowed into some of the beliefs of these people.
• 22:17
  Speaker 7: And definitely Leonarda, she was fascinated by the things that
• 22:22
  Speaker 7: they were into. So having those kinds of beliefs, this
• 22:27
  Speaker 7: curse really meant something to her, Like she believed that
• 22:31
  Speaker 7: it was true and that it was going to happen,
• 22:34
  Speaker 7: So it plays a huge part in what happens, like
• 22:39
  Speaker 7: the dark shit that happens in the story.
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: Is that's an influence and like some of the things
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: she does, I'm.
• 22:44
  Speaker 7: Assuming it is, oh big time?
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 22:48
  Speaker 7: Yes.
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: Is that also an influence of the acceptance of the
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: one that she found? I forgot his name, That was
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: her love as well, Rafael? Well, yes, I'm sorry.
• 23:04
  Speaker 7: No, I don't believe it had anything to do with him,
• 23:08
  Speaker 7: but I think he was just along for the ride. Honestly,
• 23:14
  Speaker 7: He's like, Hey, whatever you want to do, all right,
• 23:17
  Speaker 7: I'm a yes man.
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: You didn't want to do that, you didn't want to
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: get killed. He was probably all right, I'm cool, I'm good.
• 23:23
  Speaker 4: I don't want to be eaten as a pastry.
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: Trying to be your next victim. Whatever you want, honey.
• 23:30
  Speaker 4: Nobody needs to ease me as soap.
• 23:35
  Speaker 7: Yeah, what a mess. So, despite all the turmoil surrounding
• 23:41
  Speaker 7: the marriage Raphael, he proved to be loving and supportive
• 23:46
  Speaker 7: this whole time. Like I had said, and without her
• 23:51
  Speaker 7: mother's criticism, Leonarda kind of became her own worst critic.
• 23:56
  Speaker 7: So she she became a huge perfectionist, and she wanted
• 24:01
  Speaker 7: to strive to be the perfect wife. She never felt
• 24:04
  Speaker 7: like she was good enough for anything that she did,
• 24:07
  Speaker 7: and no matter how well she did something, she always
• 24:11
  Speaker 7: thought that she could do better, which comes into play
• 24:15
  Speaker 7: during the murders as well, So keep that in mind.
• 24:20
  Speaker 7: So sorry you guys can't see me.
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah went away again. Yea, before you had the thing up,
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: I thought I might have came back, but no, sorry,
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: it changed again.
• 24:35
  Speaker 7: I'm trying to mess with it while I'm reading. So
• 24:40
  Speaker 7: this took a toll on Leonarda's health, and with all
• 24:45
  Speaker 7: of this worry came anxiety, which ended up causing seizures
• 24:50
  Speaker 7: and things like that like, her health was not great.
• 24:54
  Speaker 7: She struggled with it a lot throughout her life. And
• 24:57
  Speaker 7: it was all really because she wouldn't call the hell
• 25:00
  Speaker 7: down like just chill. But I mean she was kind
• 25:04
  Speaker 7: of conditioned that way from a child to worry about
• 25:08
  Speaker 7: everything and feel like she wasn't doing anything right. So
• 25:13
  Speaker 7: she just puts so much pressure on herself that it
• 25:17
  Speaker 7: wrecked her health completely.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: Was she into uh she did she drink or anything
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: or use drugs? No?
• 25:31
  Speaker 7: Not as not as far as I know, I don't
• 25:34
  Speaker 7: think she did.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: No.
• 25:36
  Speaker 7: No, she wanted more than anything to have a large
• 25:40
  Speaker 7: family with lots of children. She wanted to kind of
• 25:44
  Speaker 7: make up for, you know, what she lost as a child.
• 25:46
  Speaker 7: She wanted to be able to give that back to
• 25:49
  Speaker 7: her kids and also to receive love from her children,
• 25:54
  Speaker 7: which becomes completely unhealthy too.
• 25:56
  Speaker 4: Just side note, I know that you brought up that
• 26:02
  Speaker 4: she comes from like a Romani lineage, right, So did
• 26:09
  Speaker 4: did they talk about how? I mean, because people would
• 26:15
  Speaker 4: know them more as like gypsies today, right, that's that's yeah.
• 26:20
  Speaker 4: So So with that though, comes a lot of spiritual
• 26:24
  Speaker 4: baggage and they have a pretty strict moral code, right,
• 26:30
  Speaker 4: and which is probably part of the reason that they
• 26:33
  Speaker 4: that they were like, Okay, you're going to marry this
• 26:36
  Speaker 4: to her mother, You're going to marry this guy, right,
• 26:40
  Speaker 4: But how I wonder how that has influenced her. Did
• 26:46
  Speaker 4: she rejected or did she embrace that culture? That's you
• 26:50
  Speaker 4: know what I mean.
• 26:53
  Speaker 7: I'm not so certain that it was part of her
• 26:57
  Speaker 7: upbringing per se, like she it was not her lineage
• 27:00
  Speaker 7: as far as I know, I think it was more
• 27:02
  Speaker 7: just she was influenced because it was she was surrounded
• 27:05
  Speaker 7: by it because they would, like all the Romani people
• 27:09
  Speaker 7: would make their camps outside of town, so they were
• 27:12
  Speaker 7: always around. Yeah, always around. She loved throughout the story,
• 27:18
  Speaker 7: she always would go out to their camps and visit
• 27:21
  Speaker 7: with them, and eventually getting ahead of myself a little bit,
• 27:24
  Speaker 7: but eventually they consider her one of their own. That's
• 27:29
  Speaker 7: how close she becomes with them. But I don't believe
• 27:32
  Speaker 7: that it was part of her lineage.
• 27:34
  Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, gotcha. I mean I see where it's going
• 27:39
  Speaker 4: and it explains a lot.
• 27:40
  Speaker 7: But yeah, yeah, it's like the perfect storm, yeah kind of. Okay,
• 27:47
  Speaker 7: I think I might be getting this now, Oh there
• 27:51
  Speaker 7: you are, Okay, So where was I oh around this time?
• 28:01
  Speaker 7: Is when another traveling fortune teller, which was pretty prevalent
• 28:06
  Speaker 7: with the Romani people too. They had a lot of
• 28:08
  Speaker 7: fortune tellers who would read your poems and tarot card
• 28:12
  Speaker 7: readings things like that, and a fortune teller was passing through.
• 28:16
  Speaker 7: So she decides she's gonna have.
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: Her palm read.
• 28:21
  Speaker 7: This goes, well, Oh, this part's so funny because I
• 28:27
  Speaker 7: can just imagine her going up to this fortune teller
• 28:31
  Speaker 7: and apparently she hands her palms over and she's like,
• 28:35
  Speaker 7: just say, you know, I'm already cursed. So if you
• 28:39
  Speaker 7: see anything like that written in my palms, just be
• 28:41
  Speaker 7: aware that I already know. And it's just already a thing,
• 28:46
  Speaker 7: just putting it out there. So yeah, she forewarns her
• 28:51
  Speaker 7: that she's already basically screwed. So this fortune teller is
• 29:00
  Speaker 7: a huge part like this, It's just one thing after
• 29:02
  Speaker 7: another stacking up against her to where she's pretty much
• 29:07
  Speaker 7: doomed with her mindset. So the fortune teller basically tells
• 29:11
  Speaker 7: her that she's going to live a long life, but
• 29:18
  Speaker 7: one of sadness, and she'll outlive all of her children.
• 29:25
  Speaker 7: Worst thing you could possibly tell her, you know, like,
• 29:27
  Speaker 7: oh man, So of course she sees this as an
• 29:33
  Speaker 7: extension of this curse that's already been put on her.
• 29:36
  Speaker 7: She's like, oh no, now it's going to affect my kids,
• 29:39
  Speaker 7: my unborn kids that haven't even had yet. And what's
• 29:43
  Speaker 7: kind of crazy though, is it kind of does happen.
• 29:48
  Speaker 7: Over the course of her trying to have kids. She
• 29:54
  Speaker 7: has seventeen pregnancies, and of those seventeen pregnancies, only war
• 30:00
  Speaker 7: children survive, so tons of loss, miscarriages. Some of the
• 30:09
  Speaker 7: children died in their like between one and five of
• 30:13
  Speaker 7: different illnesses things like that. So she was going through
• 30:18
  Speaker 7: it and it was a mess. But I'm kind of
• 30:23
  Speaker 7: jumping ahead here, But after she lost her first pregnancy,
• 30:26
  Speaker 7: so I think it was like three years into the marriage,
• 30:29
  Speaker 7: she got pregnant, lost the baby, and this, of course
• 30:35
  Speaker 7: reinforced all her sickness stuff, her seizures and all of
• 30:41
  Speaker 7: that got worse again, and eventually they decide to leave
• 30:47
  Speaker 7: Montella and Rafael's see, this is where Raphael is always
• 30:52
  Speaker 7: trying to do what he can to make her life better,
• 30:57
  Speaker 7: and this was one of the things that he's like,
• 30:58
  Speaker 7: let's just let's start over somewhere a new Let's get
• 31:02
  Speaker 7: the hell out of here where you have all these
• 31:04
  Speaker 7: horrible memories. We can start fresh. And they end up
• 31:09
  Speaker 7: moving to Hotenza, which is where Raphael grew up. So
• 31:15
  Speaker 7: all of his family was there, and they sounded like
• 31:19
  Speaker 7: they were great, like they wanted to support them, they
• 31:23
  Speaker 7: wanted to be a part of their growing family, which
• 31:26
  Speaker 7: eventually does happen. And once they're there, Leonardo does find
• 31:30
  Speaker 7: out that she is pregnant and this actually goes well,
• 31:35
  Speaker 7: and she has her first actual born son, Giuseppe, and
• 31:40
  Speaker 7: Giuseppe is the golden boy. Giuseppe is She's obsessed with him. Basically,
• 31:48
  Speaker 7: she is obsessed with keeping him safe. She's obsessed with
• 31:53
  Speaker 7: making sure that he is around her at all times,
• 31:58
  Speaker 7: and really he is the reason that she ends up
• 32:01
  Speaker 7: doing all this heinous shit. It's all for Giuseppe in
• 32:06
  Speaker 7: her mind. So yep, she has him, and then, like
• 32:11
  Speaker 7: I was saying, throughout all of this, she ends up
• 32:14
  Speaker 7: losing all these other pregnancies, which is horrible, and children
• 32:19
  Speaker 7: living children too.
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: Sure she wasn't making pastries back then, not yet, not yet,
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: but she will be soon, don't you worry.
• 32:38
  Speaker 7: Okay, So after they have I'm not sure how many
• 32:41
  Speaker 7: children they have at this point, I'm pretty sure that
• 32:45
  Speaker 7: she's done having kids at this point, so they have
• 32:49
  Speaker 7: more mouths to feed. They're living their life here in
• 32:53
  Speaker 7: Potenza with Raphael's family, and Raphael is like, Nara, you
• 33:01
  Speaker 7: need to get a job. You gotta go to work.
• 33:04
  Speaker 7: I can't make enough money to feed all these kids.
• 33:08
  Speaker 7: Your health's doing better, things are going fine. Even though
• 33:12
  Speaker 7: she was a helicopter mom and she wanted to watch
• 33:14
  Speaker 7: over her kids day and night. Somehow Raphael convinced her.
• 33:18
  Speaker 7: He's like, look, you can be a helicopter mom all
• 33:21
  Speaker 7: day long, and then in the evenings, you can go
• 33:24
  Speaker 7: to work at the bank as a cleaning lady. And
• 33:29
  Speaker 7: I guess he had connections to where he could get
• 33:32
  Speaker 7: her this little part time job. And this was actually
• 33:35
  Speaker 7: perfect for her because she was really type A, so
• 33:39
  Speaker 7: cleaning something was like the perfect gig for her. So
• 33:44
  Speaker 7: he convinced her and she started working there. And then,
• 33:49
  Speaker 7: of course, the worst possible thing could happen when she
• 33:53
  Speaker 7: was at work, one of her children passed away in
• 33:55
  Speaker 7: their sleep. And this was basically the icing on the cake,
• 34:01
  Speaker 7: the tipping point for her, and it broke her. She
• 34:05
  Speaker 7: at this point, she's like, this curse is never It's
• 34:08
  Speaker 7: never going to leave me alone. I feel powerless against it.
• 34:12
  Speaker 7: I have to do something. We need money. We need
• 34:15
  Speaker 7: medical care for my kids. I don't want to lose
• 34:17
  Speaker 7: any more of them. They couldn't afford to pay for
• 34:20
  Speaker 7: a doctor. So she comes up with an idea. She's like, hm,
• 34:25
  Speaker 7: I feel like fortune has favored me because I work
• 34:31
  Speaker 7: at a bank, and banks have money, and I need money.
• 34:39
  Speaker 7: So she attempted to forge a bank account. Like she
• 34:43
  Speaker 7: didn't just steal the money. She tried to forge a
• 34:47
  Speaker 7: bank account, and then she went in to make a withdrawal,
• 34:52
  Speaker 7: and they're like, we know that you don't have this money.
• 34:56
  Speaker 7: You work here, Like what are you doing? So she
• 35:03
  Speaker 7: gets arrested. Obviously, they arrest her, like no, not today, Brenda.
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: It's so funny. It's like, we know who you are.
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: That's not you.
• 35:17
  Speaker 7: I don't even know what she was thinking, because she
• 35:19
  Speaker 7: doesn't seem dumb, but that was just that was pretty dumb,
• 35:24
  Speaker 7: Like I don't know what was going on there. Maybe
• 35:26
  Speaker 7: she was just her mind was so frazzled at that
• 35:29
  Speaker 7: point that she wasn't thinking clearly.
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 35:33
  Speaker 7: But nonetheless, she spent about eighteen months in prison for that,
• 35:39
  Speaker 7: and that that ruined their reputation in the town. So
• 35:43
  Speaker 7: once again, Rafael's got to clean up the mess, and
• 35:47
  Speaker 7: he's like, well we should probably Like once she's released
• 35:50
  Speaker 7: and everything, everything's fallen apart for Rafael. He lost his job.
• 35:55
  Speaker 7: He's like, we got to we gotta get out of here.
• 35:57
  Speaker 7: Even his family was like, yeah, you guys should probably go.
• 36:02
  Speaker 7: So they ended up moving again and they head south
• 36:06
  Speaker 7: to the rural town of Lacedonia. Yeah they move around
• 36:13
  Speaker 7: quite a bit, so yeah, yeah, but I mean it's
• 36:21
  Speaker 7: the life she chose. So so they did pretty well
• 36:26
  Speaker 7: in Lacedonia, and I guess Leonarda loved it there. She
• 36:30
  Speaker 7: was happy, her kids were happy, She felt a little
• 36:34
  Speaker 7: more relaxed than she had in a very long time.
• 36:37
  Speaker 7: And the Romani people were camping outside of the town,
• 36:42
  Speaker 7: so she got to visit with them often. And I
• 36:46
  Speaker 7: guess she learned a lot from them at this time.
• 36:50
  Speaker 7: So this is when she learned how to read poems
• 36:52
  Speaker 7: as well. She learned how to tell fortunes. She was
• 36:57
  Speaker 7: embracing all of their practices. She would put her kids
• 37:01
  Speaker 7: to sleep and head out to their camps after they
• 37:03
  Speaker 7: went to bed, and she'd hang out there with them
• 37:05
  Speaker 7: all night. And then she decided to get her fortune
• 37:11
  Speaker 7: told again, more good news, and that's talking this time.
• 37:23
  Speaker 7: The fortune teller is like, in your right hand, I
• 37:26
  Speaker 7: see prison. In your left hand, I see a mental asylum.
• 37:34
  Speaker 7: But Leonard is like, okay, I can work with this
• 37:38
  Speaker 7: because she didn't mention my kids. It's like, at least
• 37:43
  Speaker 7: she didn't say anything about my children.
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: This guy's an optimist.
• 37:52
  Speaker 7: So throughout the years, she'd spend more and more time
• 37:55
  Speaker 7: with the Romani people. They accepted her fully and as
• 37:58
  Speaker 7: an equal, shared all of their knowledge with her. So
• 38:04
  Speaker 7: through all this knowledge she starts trying to find a
• 38:07
  Speaker 7: way to break the curse through all the things that
• 38:10
  Speaker 7: she's being taught. Then tragedy strikes again. She's in her groove,
• 38:18
  Speaker 7: things are going great, but tragedy strikes again. And in July,
• 38:25
  Speaker 7: on July twenty third of nineteen thirty, the powerful Europeana
• 38:29
  Speaker 7: earthquake devastates parts of Italy, including Lacedonia. And this is
• 38:36
  Speaker 7: pretty crazy because you would think, like I feel like
• 38:39
  Speaker 7: a normal person would look at this as a blessing
• 38:42
  Speaker 7: rather than a curse. So every July in this little town,
• 38:47
  Speaker 7: they would have a wheat festival where everybody would go
• 38:51
  Speaker 7: and harvest the wheat, and it was like a week
• 38:54
  Speaker 7: long thing. They would leave their homes for the entire week,
• 38:58
  Speaker 7: go out into the fields. They'd have like bonfires, music, food,
• 39:03
  Speaker 7: all kinds of stuff, and they would sleep under the
• 39:06
  Speaker 7: stars every night in the fields. And because of this,
• 39:11
  Speaker 7: everybody lived. So had they been in their homes when
• 39:15
  Speaker 7: the earthquake hit, they probably would have died. But Leonarda
• 39:20
  Speaker 7: doesn't see it like, oh, thank god we're out here
• 39:23
  Speaker 7: instead of in the house. We would all be dead.
• 39:25
  Speaker 7: She sees it as once again the curse is taking
• 39:28
  Speaker 7: everything she loves from her, like she was happy her
• 39:32
  Speaker 7: home was there, and it was all taken away from
• 39:35
  Speaker 7: her again and they're forced to start over again. And
• 39:42
  Speaker 7: this is what leads us into Corregio. So all these
• 39:49
  Speaker 7: refugees from Lacedonia are forced to move, and a lot
• 39:54
  Speaker 7: of them head to the north to the town of Corregio,
• 39:58
  Speaker 7: which they're welcome with open arms by everybody, because obviously
• 40:02
  Speaker 7: everybody knows that they're refugees and looking for a new
• 40:05
  Speaker 7: place to live. Rafael quickly landed a job and they
• 40:10
  Speaker 7: ended up buying a little house that was connected to
• 40:13
  Speaker 7: an old general store that was vacant. For the first
• 40:18
  Speaker 7: few weeks, Leonarda was depressed. She was feeling really sorry
• 40:23
  Speaker 7: for herself, but despite that, her kids were thriving, Rafael
• 40:29
  Speaker 7: was doing well. So eventually she snaps out of it.
• 40:32
  Speaker 7: She's like, Okay, maybe this isn't so bad, and slowly
• 40:37
  Speaker 7: she starts to build her new identity. She grew close
• 40:41
  Speaker 7: with the women there, frequently getting together chatting, having coffee,
• 40:47
  Speaker 7: bitching about their husbands, eating some tea cakes. You know,
• 40:55
  Speaker 7: she always had her teacakes at this point, like she
• 40:59
  Speaker 7: was the place to be. Everybody go over to her
• 41:01
  Speaker 7: house to hang out and gossip all day long. And
• 41:08
  Speaker 7: I guess during this time is when she started giving
• 41:12
  Speaker 7: the women helpful advice and eventually the women would start
• 41:16
  Speaker 7: seeking her out for it. Like she was really building
• 41:19
  Speaker 7: trust with all of these village people. Even the men
• 41:23
  Speaker 7: eventually would start to come to her for advice, and
• 41:28
  Speaker 7: she became the wise woman of the neighborhood. So you
• 41:33
  Speaker 7: can see where she had kind of a big influence
• 41:39
  Speaker 7: on these people that she ends up luring into her
• 41:44
  Speaker 7: into her grasp. I guess, so she decides that the
• 41:49
  Speaker 7: little general store that's connected to the house could be
• 41:52
  Speaker 7: used for something, and now that she had this reputation,
• 41:57
  Speaker 7: she felt like she could probably be successful at it.
• 42:01
  Speaker 7: And this is when she decides to use her knowledge
• 42:05
  Speaker 7: that she had gained from working at the bank because
• 42:08
  Speaker 7: she was mixing up soaps and things like that to
• 42:11
  Speaker 7: clean their So she's like, well, I already have this knowledge,
• 42:14
  Speaker 7: why don't I just start making soap? So she starts
• 42:18
  Speaker 7: concocting recipes until she finds the perfect one, and then
• 42:24
  Speaker 7: she she even orders all of her fragrances and stuff
• 42:27
  Speaker 7: from Florence like it's a big deal. So she finally
• 42:31
  Speaker 7: perfects it all, she sends it out to her friends
• 42:34
  Speaker 7: and has them test it out and they're like, wow,
• 42:37
  Speaker 7: this is amazing. This is the best soap ever. So
• 42:40
  Speaker 7: she gets a boost and she's like, Okay, I'm good
• 42:43
  Speaker 7: at this. I'll do this. And actually she did really well.
• 42:46
  Speaker 7: And I guess she did so well that Rafael didn't
• 42:49
  Speaker 7: even have to work if he didn't want to, Like,
• 42:51
  Speaker 7: that's how well she was doing with selling these soaps,
• 42:56
  Speaker 7: and they had more money than they'd ever had before.
• 42:58
  Speaker 7: So she's like, okay, okay, here, we are doing great.
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: It's impressive, though, you know, besides what happened afterwards. I mean,
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: that's interesting to think about it. I mean, she would
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: I mean, like you were saying before, she probably couldn't
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: have been.
• 43:16
  Speaker 7: Stupid, right exactly. That's why I don't know how she
• 43:21
  Speaker 7: ended up doing that with the whole bank situation.
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: But I was gonna ask what was her educational background
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: with her mother the way that she was. Did her
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: mother actually send her to school back then?
• 43:34
  Speaker 7: I think she did, yes, Yes, So as she gained
• 43:44
  Speaker 7: more of a reputation, she decided to start letting the
• 43:49
  Speaker 7: customers know that she had other skills that she could
• 43:53
  Speaker 7: offer them, such as her ability to see into the future,
• 43:57
  Speaker 7: the poem readings, that kind of stuff teacakes made out
• 44:02
  Speaker 7: of dead bodies.
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: No, just kidding, Oh god.
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: Alright, sorry, go ahead.
• 44:17
  Speaker 7: Somebody had to go there perfectly.
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah when you said, was of course with me. So yeah,
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: because she does not to again, not to jump too forehead.
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: She does get into fortune telling herself to or she does.
• 44:35
  Speaker 7: She's actually pretty good at it, like she she's right
• 44:39
  Speaker 7: a lot of the time. So that's why eventually even
• 44:42
  Speaker 7: farmers were coming to her because they're like, Okay, what
• 44:46
  Speaker 7: crop should I plan this year? What's going to be
• 44:48
  Speaker 7: a success, and she nailed it a lot of the time.
• 44:56
  Speaker 7: So I guess even the Romani people at this time
• 44:58
  Speaker 7: would come into town and in trade with her. So
• 45:02
  Speaker 7: she ended up having a really extensive collection of like
• 45:07
  Speaker 7: spell books and tarot cards and things like that. And
• 45:11
  Speaker 7: I'm I don't remember where I saw this, but I'm
• 45:15
  Speaker 7: pretty sure her collection is kept somewhere. I just don't
• 45:19
  Speaker 7: know where I can see that. I can't remember. I
• 45:22
  Speaker 7: should have looked that up. But yeah, so it was
• 45:25
  Speaker 7: a massive collection and she was very proud of it,
• 45:29
  Speaker 7: and of course on her downtime, she was always in
• 45:34
  Speaker 7: the back of her mind trying to find ways to
• 45:37
  Speaker 7: overcome this curse, like that was her really her whole
• 45:40
  Speaker 7: life's purpose, even though she was doing this, you know,
• 45:43
  Speaker 7: to generate an income, and she knew that this curse
• 45:54
  Speaker 7: was made from darkness and to combat it she would
• 45:57
  Speaker 7: have to go to the dark side. So you can
• 46:00
  Speaker 7: kind of see the decline here.
• 46:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah, It's like, okay, it makes sense throughout time, you know,
• 46:09
  Speaker 4: fight dark with dark and light with light. You know,
• 46:12
  Speaker 4: it makes all the sense in the world.
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: But anyway, I'm sorry, this is like, as you're telling
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: the story, you see this train wreck happening.
• 46:20
  Speaker 7: And nobody stopping it. Nobody, But I feel like nobody
• 46:28
  Speaker 7: really understands what's actually going on in her mind. Like outwardly,
• 46:33
  Speaker 7: she probably, I mean, everything I've heard about her, she
• 46:37
  Speaker 7: just seemed like the sweet, little innocent thing that was
• 46:40
  Speaker 7: so helpful and everybody trusted and that's.
• 46:43
  Speaker 4: What she used. She used that trust to just man
• 46:49
  Speaker 4: and it shows you too. It's like a height. It's
• 46:51
  Speaker 4: like a there is like a and I've never looked
• 46:55
  Speaker 4: into the psychological side of this, but it just shows
• 46:58
  Speaker 4: you how trauma can really become this engine of darkness,
• 47:04
  Speaker 4: right that just sure can.
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: And yeah, wow, per chance is there some long lost
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: journals of hers, because I really would like to know
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: where her mind was at this time.
• 47:16
  Speaker 7: She wrote a memoir. Damn Yeah, that's where most of
• 47:20
  Speaker 7: this information comes from. She loves loved talking about what
• 47:26
  Speaker 7: she did. She loved it. So it's it's really weird
• 47:30
  Speaker 7: because on one hand, you're like, I can see why
• 47:33
  Speaker 7: this happened to her, and as we get into the
• 47:36
  Speaker 7: murders and everything, like part of you is like I
• 47:40
  Speaker 7: can kind of see that she because she in her
• 47:43
  Speaker 7: memoir she acts like she didn't want to do it,
• 47:46
  Speaker 7: like she didn't have a choice, she had to do it.
• 47:48
  Speaker 7: But in my opinion, I think she enjoyed it. I
• 47:53
  Speaker 7: really do. I think she enjoyed it. I think she
• 47:55
  Speaker 7: was still playing that little part of I'm this innocent
• 47:58
  Speaker 7: little thing and I felt like I had to do it.
• 48:01
  Speaker 7: But I think she liked it because she loves talking
• 48:04
  Speaker 7: about it. I mean, she wrote a memoir. Eventually, when
• 48:08
  Speaker 7: she's convicted, we'll get there. I'm getting ahead, but she
• 48:12
  Speaker 7: likes to tell her story. I don't know if they
• 48:16
  Speaker 7: can find her memoir.
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: I don't know if her tarot is in this place,
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: but I did look it up in Rome in the
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: Criminological Museum, they do have some of her I guess
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: some of her tools. I don't want to I don't
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: want to give it away. Have some of her tools, yeah,
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: to go look at I.
• 48:33
  Speaker 7: Guess, yeah, yeah, they kept some of her stuff.
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: From just the look at that, you would think like,
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: I think this chick might have liked doing what she
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: was doing. Fuck you know when if he toldally honest too?
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: Which crazy? Sorry No, I was thinking about it before
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: I wanted to say it earlier. It almost sounds like
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: like in a success story like some some chick that
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: you would think had like no shot as a kid,
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: ends up like being able to run its own successful
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: business the husband kid, you know, and then you go
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: fuck it off by killing people like Jesus Christ.
• 49:09
  Speaker 7: Yeah, and see right there too. That just goes to
• 49:12
  Speaker 7: show you enough was never going to be enough for her, Like,
• 49:17
  Speaker 7: yeah she did she over she was having great luck.
• 49:21
  Speaker 7: There's no curse here. I mean, yeah, she lost a
• 49:23
  Speaker 7: lot of kids, so that be really hard on her.
• 49:27
  Speaker 4: But I'm driven too. I mean there ye think about
• 49:31
  Speaker 4: when this was, you know.
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: So.
• 49:35
  Speaker 3: I have to ask though, if she if they didn't
• 49:39
  Speaker 3: discover that she was killing people, would we today look
• 49:42
  Speaker 3: at her as a successful business woman.
• 49:47
  Speaker 7: Probably so, Yeah, And there's no doubt in my mind
• 49:52
  Speaker 7: that she would have kept doing it. I feel like
• 49:54
  Speaker 7: she would have found more excuses to continue on with
• 49:57
  Speaker 7: it because I think it was another thing that she
• 50:01
  Speaker 7: felt in control of that she had to perfect, which
• 50:05
  Speaker 7: we'll get to.
• 50:06
  Speaker 3: But yeah, I I do have a question for you
• 50:12
  Speaker 3: as you're looking at this, I just realized what you
• 50:16
  Speaker 3: just said. Bennet nice touche. Do you think her direction
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: was due to the obception of either just her kids
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: or was it the curse and the third option or
• 50:35
  Speaker 3: how her mom treated.
• 50:36
  Speaker 7: Her all of the about I don't know.
• 50:46
  Speaker 3: The reason why I ask is because first of all,
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: I find it odd that she's obsessed with having kids
• 50:51
  Speaker 3: after her mom treated her that way. Usually someone who's
• 50:54
  Speaker 3: treated that way do not want kids. They're like, I
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: don't want to do with this. Yeah, and that became
• 51:00
  Speaker 3: her purpose. She became the opposite of her mother to
• 51:05
  Speaker 3: commit these crimes, which kind of makes it doesn't make
• 51:10
  Speaker 3: complete sense to me. I don't know.
• 51:13
  Speaker 7: I think at one point she says that the one
• 51:17
  Speaker 7: of the big reasons that she wanted to have kids
• 51:20
  Speaker 7: was so that they would love her.
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: When you said that earlier, I thought that was a
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: sign right there.
• 51:26
  Speaker 7: Yeah, so she's got the wrong idea of the relationship
• 51:31
  Speaker 7: she should be having with these kids. Not that it
• 51:33
  Speaker 7: went in a sexual direction. I don't believe it ever did.
• 51:36
  Speaker 7: It was more of she just wanted to be loved,
• 51:40
  Speaker 7: because she never she wasn't as a child, But she
• 51:43
  Speaker 7: was looking in the wrong places. And I'm like, was
• 51:45
  Speaker 7: it Rafael enough? Like he seemed to love the shit
• 51:48
  Speaker 7: out of you.
• 51:48
  Speaker 3: Come on, That's what I was just thinking as you
• 51:51
  Speaker 3: said that I was like she had love. Yeah, most
• 51:55
  Speaker 3: guys would have walked away after the second time they
• 51:57
  Speaker 3: had a move.
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, between you and your kids. You're getting too expensive now, lady.
• 52:07
  Speaker 7: Having these seizures, you're not going to work. It's a
• 52:11
  Speaker 7: lot going on here. But maybe after seeing her the successful,
• 52:17
  Speaker 7: maybe that's why Raphael stuck around, you know, I mean,
• 52:20
  Speaker 7: she was kicking ass. Really, she's making a lot of money.
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: And sometimes stuff like that could give people the impression
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: all they must have that shit together if they're doing
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: this well. She doesn't necessarily mean anything, but yeah.
• 52:35
  Speaker 7: Yeah, and there too was that whole part of her
• 52:39
  Speaker 7: wanting to be the perfect wife and like obsessing over
• 52:43
  Speaker 7: that too. So maybe maybe Raphael liked that. So back
• 52:51
  Speaker 7: to the part where she feels like she has to
• 52:54
  Speaker 7: combat darkness with darkness. She felt more in control of
• 52:59
  Speaker 7: her faith than ever because now she's armed with all
• 53:01
  Speaker 7: this knowledge to protect her and she wanted more of it.
• 53:10
  Speaker 7: So after things are going well, I mean, even though
• 53:16
  Speaker 7: she's brewing things up in her mind, outwardly things seem
• 53:19
  Speaker 7: pretty normal. But then in nineteen thirty nine, the world
• 53:22
  Speaker 7: was on the brink of World War Two, and all
• 53:28
  Speaker 7: of the Italian guys are enlisting, and Leonarda's greatest fear
• 53:34
  Speaker 7: was about to come true. Her beloved son, Like I
• 53:38
  Speaker 7: said earlier, Giuseppi, the Golden Boy, decided he was going
• 53:41
  Speaker 7: to enlist in the army. And to most people this
• 53:47
  Speaker 7: would be one of those like pride moments back then,
• 53:50
  Speaker 7: but to Leonarda, it was like a death sentence basically,
• 53:57
  Speaker 7: so she she was determined to stop it. But Giuseppi,
• 54:02
  Speaker 7: at this point, he had had enough of his mom,
• 54:05
  Speaker 7: like the helicopter mom thing. I mean, she was so
• 54:08
  Speaker 7: over overprotective of those kids. They weren't allowed to do
• 54:12
  Speaker 7: much of anything, Like, they weren't allowed to be out
• 54:14
  Speaker 7: of her sight. She was constantly watching over them. And
• 54:18
  Speaker 7: he's the oldest and he's done. He's like, I got
• 54:21
  Speaker 7: to find a way to get the hell out of here.
• 54:23
  Speaker 7: I'm done with this shit. Mom's crazy. I gotta go.
• 54:27
  Speaker 7: So he was looking for a way out and this
• 54:29
  Speaker 7: was the perfect opportunity for him in his mind. So
• 54:33
  Speaker 7: he even though he thought she was batshit crazy, he
• 54:37
  Speaker 7: didn't want to hurt her feelings, so he ended up
• 54:39
  Speaker 7: doing this behind her back at first, so that she
• 54:42
  Speaker 7: couldn't stop him. Because she She was a force to
• 54:46
  Speaker 7: be reckoned with when she wanted to be, Like, if
• 54:48
  Speaker 7: she wanted something, she was going to get it, even
• 54:51
  Speaker 7: if it's a super awkward bath, which we'll get into
• 54:54
  Speaker 7: in a minute. I know that was really random, but
• 54:58
  Speaker 7: you'll see in a minute. So word gets out because
• 55:02
  Speaker 7: it's a small town, and I guess these people come
• 55:05
  Speaker 7: up to Leonarda and they're like, congratulations, your son's enlisting.
• 55:10
  Speaker 7: You raise such a good boy. And she's like, what
• 55:12
  Speaker 7: are you talking about? What do you mean? She's like, oh,
• 55:17
  Speaker 7: hell no, you're.
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: Like kid would rather go to Ward and we'll stay
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: home with his mother.
• 55:23
  Speaker 7: That's really staying something, isn't that. Yeah, So she goes home.
• 55:31
  Speaker 7: She's beside herself. She's like, oh God, what am I
• 55:33
  Speaker 7: going to do? These things are about to happen. I
• 55:36
  Speaker 7: have to come up with a game plan to break
• 55:39
  Speaker 7: this curse before he goes or he's going to die.
• 55:43
  Speaker 7: So this is really what this is where shit goes down.
• 55:49
  Speaker 7: So she actually confronts him and she's like, is there
• 55:51
  Speaker 7: any way that you can possibly like get out of
• 55:55
  Speaker 7: this and not go He's like, no, Mom, it's written
• 55:59
  Speaker 7: in stone. I'm going what's done is done, so she's like, okay,
• 56:04
  Speaker 7: and in her mind she's like, I know what I
• 56:07
  Speaker 7: have to do, and I'm going to do it. She's
• 56:11
  Speaker 7: pretty much prepared at this point. And what really turns
• 56:16
  Speaker 7: her to the dark side of this is throughout her
• 56:20
  Speaker 7: searching in her books, she finally found what she thought
• 56:24
  Speaker 7: was the missing piece of the puzzle, and it had
• 56:26
  Speaker 7: to do with alchemy and how alchemists believe that the
• 56:32
  Speaker 7: universe is operated on balance and transformation, so the belief
• 56:37
  Speaker 7: that something must be given up in order for something
• 56:39
  Speaker 7: else to be gained. And this is where she gets
• 56:42
  Speaker 7: the dark idea of human sacrifices to save her son.
• 56:54
  Speaker 7: Fun stuff.
• 56:55
  Speaker 4: Lord, Yeah, it's some dark shit.
• 57:02
  Speaker 7: So she begins plotting how to do this painlessly for
• 57:05
  Speaker 7: the sacrifice, because you know, she doesn't want to hurt anybody,
• 57:11
  Speaker 7: God forbid she heard anybody. And she knew that whatever
• 57:16
  Speaker 7: she was going to do, she would have to carry
• 57:18
  Speaker 7: it out in her shop where all her supplies were,
• 57:21
  Speaker 7: so she'd have everything right there and ready to go.
• 57:24
  Speaker 7: And she figured out who her first sacrifice was.
• 57:27
  Speaker 4: Going to be.
• 57:32
  Speaker 7: And because the women from all over town came to
• 57:35
  Speaker 7: her shop for advice, they all trusted her that was
• 57:39
  Speaker 7: really the foundation of her plan. She's like, well, I
• 57:42
  Speaker 7: already have their trust. This is going to be easy,
• 57:45
  Speaker 7: and really it was, it really was. It's really sad.
• 57:50
  Speaker 7: So the first woman that she targeted was Fostina Seti,
• 57:57
  Speaker 7: and Fostina was a middle aged married woman, so she
• 58:01
  Speaker 7: was known as like the spinster of the town, and
• 58:06
  Speaker 7: she had been visiting Leonarda for more than a year
• 58:09
  Speaker 7: at this point. And this is so messed up, man,
• 58:13
  Speaker 7: this is so messed up. So she was going to
• 58:15
  Speaker 7: Leonarda hoping that she could find her what she had
• 58:19
  Speaker 7: always longed for, a loving husband to live happily ever after.
• 58:23
  Speaker 7: So she would go and talk to Leonardo about this,
• 58:26
  Speaker 7: and Leonardo would try to see if she could find
• 58:32
  Speaker 7: her a husband because she didn't want to be alone.
• 58:34
  Speaker 7: She'd been alone her whole life. And the more Leonardo
• 58:39
  Speaker 7: Leonarda thought about their conversations, the more she realized that
• 58:43
  Speaker 7: Faustina would be the perfect choice because she didn't have anybody,
• 58:47
  Speaker 7: so nobody would miss her if she disappeared, or at
• 58:51
  Speaker 7: least for a while.
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: Anyway, I was thinking that, and you probably would have
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: clients that are like, uh, you know, nobody knows I
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: come here so insane, you know, because it could still
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: be looked at us. Yeah, so you know, to sound
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: like can put myself in the killer's mindset. But those people,
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: I guess would be easy at t Allets be like,
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: nobody even knew they came.
• 59:10
  Speaker 7: Here, And even if people did know that they came there,
• 59:15
  Speaker 7: only the only person that would know their deepest, darkest
• 59:17
  Speaker 7: secrets would be Leonarda. It's not like anybody else would
• 59:21
  Speaker 7: really know why they were going there, which is probably
• 59:24
  Speaker 7: what the case was for Faustina, Like she probably wasn't
• 59:27
  Speaker 7: walking around town being like, oh, you guys, find my
• 59:31
  Speaker 7: long lost love, find the husband so I can be
• 59:34
  Speaker 7: married off and live happily ever after. Leonarda was probably
• 59:38
  Speaker 7: the only one that knew. So she uses this plot
• 59:44
  Speaker 7: to her advantage, which is so messed up. And she
• 59:49
  Speaker 7: tells Faustina that she found her a husband in a
• 59:54
  Speaker 7: far away town of Pola, and she's like, yep, I
• 59:59
  Speaker 7: showed him your foe and he fell absolutely madly in
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 7: love with you, wants to marry you. You just simply
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 7: have to travel there and meet him. And of course
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 7: Faustina is thrilled because I mean, at this point she's
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 7: probably feeling like her time's running out, and finally she
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 7: found somebody, so she's all about it. But there's a catch.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 7: So what leonardo would do with each of these victims
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 7: is she would make them write letters, and Faustina was
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 7: the first. She's like, now you can't tell anybody where
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 7: you're going, but you have to write letters to friends
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 7: and family explaining where you went and why. I'll take
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 7: them to the post office and have them sent out
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 7: after your departure, so it would buy her some more time.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 7: And Fostina believed every word. So she writes the letters,
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 7: she goes home, acts or shit, and heads back to
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 7: Leonarda's shop the morning that she was instructed to. She
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 7: was excited, she was nervous, but she trusted Leonarda. So
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 7: Leonarda suggests before they head out to have a glass
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 7: of wine, and apparently Faustina even made comments about the
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 7: taste of the wine being funny, but drank it all anyway,
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 7: because I mean, she didn't have any reason to suspect
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 7: anything was going on. But Leonarda had drugged the wine,
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 7: and after drinking it, Faustina quickly became unconscious. And this
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 7: is where it gets really disturbing. And that's the thing
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 7: that is so messed up to about this is that
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 7: she was close with these people.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: That is Oh, they tell that she found that her
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: husband is so grimy.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 7: It is so bad. Yeah, so bad.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 4: No sociopathic behavior here or anything.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: I'm just saying, Yeah.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 7: This is the part where I'm like, she had to
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 7: enjoy this, because just the way she goes about the
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 7: whole thing, It's like, this doesn't sound like somebody who
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 7: didn't want to do this. So once once Fostina was unconscious,
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 7: she killed her with an axe. I'm like, if you
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 7: don't want to do it, why would you pick like
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 7: one of the most brutal possible ways to kill somebody.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 7: That doesn't make sense to me. And in her memoir
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 7: she says that as she was doing this, she was
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 7: telling her friend that she was sorry. She was saying,
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 7: I'm sorry, Hack, I'm sorry, Hack. Pretty fucked up. So
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 7: she would carefully dismember the body into multiple pieces. She
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 7: would collect the blood, so like, after she cut the
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 7: body parts up, she would hang them up on hooks
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 7: and let the blood drain out so that she could
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 7: collect the blood.
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I was just going to say, you know how
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: much of a messed that could have been oh m.
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 4: Yep.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 7: So with the dried blood, she would take it and
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 7: put it on like cookie trays, put it in the
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 7: oven and dehydrate it until it was dry. Then she
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 7: would take it out and grind it up into a powder.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she's trying to make cakes of light, yo, what.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 4: I mean? I just don't I don't get the if
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 4: she didn't want to do it, what's the logic right
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 4: behind all of it? It's there's a ritual aspect to this,
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 4: for sure.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 7: Obviously, yes there was, and.
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 4: The most twisted part of it. I don't know, are
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 4: you going to get into that or not?
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 7: Yeah, I can actually throw it in right.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 4: Now, yeah, because I don't want to blow anything up.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 7: So there is a there is a method to all
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 7: this madness. And in her mind this is a two
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 7: step process of protection. So step number one is to
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 7: protect Joseppi from the inside and step number two is
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 7: to protect him on the outside. So that's why she
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 7: makes teacakes and soap. He could eat the teacakes so
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 7: the blessing will be inside him, and she can wash
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 7: him with the soap so that he'll be protected on
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 7: the outside.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 3: Say, did you say he eats the teacakes? So she
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 3: gives this to her son.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 7: She gives him to everyone. She gives them to everybody because.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: Right, so wait a minute, it's a big banishing. It's
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: a big banishing ritual on everybody.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 3: Is tainted, ritualistic cake to save her, all, to save her,
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 3: oh gosh.
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 4: Well to save everyone.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 7: Right, there's a reason she gives. She just gives the
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 7: leftovers out because she's like, I mean, waste not what not?
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yo, let me guess. People are like, yo, that's
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: just the best it's ever been. And she's else like, yo,
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 2: this ship is slaving.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 3: Has anyone ever done a psychological breakdown over her, like
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 3: a complete one?
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 4: Because that's somebody.
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 7: Oh, I'm sure that's not insane.
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 3: Her her logic, her way of oh, I.
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 4: Mean, what makes this pure horror, right, is that like
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 4: this wasn't she wasn't doing this in like a temple
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 4: or like some hidden lodge or something. I mean, she
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 4: straight up used the domestic space for this, like the
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 4: kitchen and the pot and the soap making and the
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 4: bake goods and hospitality.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: Picking like the blue dress with the white polka dots
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 2: on it and all that.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 4: You know, as you think about it, the mother's like
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 4: it's pure freaking horror show. I mean, the mother's kitchen
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 4: becomes the altar. Period.
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: Yo, this is actually really fucked up story.
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 4: I mean the soap pot that's the cauldron. I mean,
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 4: just think about this type of way, like considering the
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 4: name of the show, cal rejects. I'm just saying she.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: Was definitely getting into alchemy.
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 4: I mean, because the victims become the offerings. The hospitality
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 4: is the predation. Motherhood becomes distorted in such a fuck
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 4: fucked up what just in blood sacrifice? Right? Just h
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 4: gives me chills.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 3: Actually, and twice next time you have cake at somebody's house, right, No, I'm.
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 4: Good with that blood red cupcake. Oh it's German chocolate
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 4: blood pudding.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: I'm good.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 4: No it's not. It's velvet.
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: No, hell no, you're done ruin love red velvet. Just
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: saying wow.
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 7: Thing though, for people that do stuff like this, they
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 7: kind of stay in the realm of their comfort zone
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 7: and what they know. So I can remember a case
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 7: I watched one time where the guy ended up killing
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 7: his wife and he owned a restaurant and to dispose
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 7: of her body, he put are in a big old
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 7: pot and boiled her like because that's what he knew.
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 7: So I feel like that.
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: I think it would been making ground beef and burder.
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 4: No, it's smells so good in here. It smells you know.
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 4: I think the scariest part of this part, like is
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 4: it's such an inversion of womanhood, motherhood and in the
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 4: home in general, that this is why this is so
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 4: freaky to me.
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 7: Yeah anyway, yeah, the most unassuming people too.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah, just that's as like evil ship.
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 2: It was a interesting you say that bitter because like
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 2: there was a guy I covered I don't even remember
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: his name anymore a couple of years ago where this
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: dude was like killing people and I'm selling them as
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: hamburgers on the side of the road, and like I
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: thought that was like screwed up we did that. He
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: was his name like Joe something.
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 7: Joe Methane or Joe.
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yoh, wasn't it because you were looking into
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: the mafia. They somehow even came across him and like
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 2: what the fuck is this dude doing? But yeah, like
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: that story screwed up, and I feel like just as
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 2: screwed up as this, But like, yeah, because it's like,
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 2: I guess, so add a character for that type of
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 2: I don't know image to do. It just seems even
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 2: more like twisted.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 7: I think that was the case that I was doing
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 7: when I came across this.
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 2: That would make sense.
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 7: Now that I think about it. Yeah, I think that's
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 7: the one.
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 2: It was.
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 7: Yeah, because he would take like the medius parts from
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 7: his victims and grind him up.
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 6: Into like barbecue whatever, right allegedly.
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 7: Yeah, people think that he was just bragging about it
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 7: and making it all up, But.
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean, that might be sure.
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 4: I can never eat food from a food card again.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 7: Either for ruining everybody's.
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 2: Out there yet Greek.
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 5: I'm like, that's shy stories. Every week.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 7: I bring the demented shed.
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 4: What can I say?
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 7: All right, all right, back to these blood biscuits. So,
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 7: once she makes the powder of the blood, she adds flour, sugar, milk, eggs, chocolate,
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 7: and margarine, and then she baked them into the small
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 7: tea cakes, just another day at the bakery. So, like
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 7: I had previously said, the spell had the two parts
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 7: from the inside and from the outside. So she has
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 7: to do step two and focus on what she's going
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 7: to make for the outside, which is the soap. And
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 7: so she takes all the body part segments that she's
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 7: chopped up throws them in a huge cauldron on the
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 7: stone of ads Lie, which is the caustic chemical commonly
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 7: used in soap making. And she believed that this process
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 7: would break down the flesh and allow her to render
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 7: the body fat, which she intended to use for the soap.
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 7: So she gets all the body parts in there is
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 7: boiling it up and size a sigh of relief. She's like,
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 7: I've done it, It's been done. Everything is going to
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 7: be okay. I did have to kill somebody, but I
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 7: did what I had to do and it's over. But
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 7: then she takes a look at the pot at the cauldron,
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 7: and she did not like what she saw. Instead of
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 7: producing usable fat, the mixture broke down into what she
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 7: considered a thick, dark sludge. And remember she's a perfectionist,
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 7: so this wasn't gonna do. She's like, I'm not putting
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 7: this sludge on Giuseppi, on my goal olden boy. This
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 7: isn't going to protect him. So that means I'm gonna
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 7: have to do this again, because I must have done
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 7: something wrong. With the spell. So yeah, she she from
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 7: square one.
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 2: Again, I'm like, thinking, as a magician, I would ever
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 2: go that, faun, It's like, how do you even do that?
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 7: Like, I don't know, but it again, she has to
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 7: like it, she has to. I feel like there was
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 7: probably not a damn thing wrong with that fact.
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 2: I don't know, but yeah, she says she crossed fingers.
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 2: I hope for the best.
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 7: Yeah seriously, which again leads me to believe that she
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 7: enjoyed it, because why wouldn't you be like, uh, that's
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 7: gonna have to do.
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 4: You bring up the magician part, nick, and it's like
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 4: that it's just this dark arc of you know, first,
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 4: she's told her destiny, right, since she receives prophecy, believes prophecy,
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 4: and then then becomes a false prophet herself by doing
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 4: this nonsense.
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 2: But oh yeah, yeah, well that could even be why
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 2: she even got to the fortune telling herself.
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean she's told her destiny. Then she you know,
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 4: she fears the curse. Then she tries to bargain with
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 4: fate essentially, right.
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 2: I mean, even looking at this, the way this lady
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 2: could be mentally again, like even that's another way of
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 2: control I could tell the people with different Yeah, she's
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 2: so just it's fucking weird. Yes.
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 3: And the odd thing about all this is that she's
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 3: going through all this trouble and her son wants to
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 3: go away. Yeah, he doesn't want nothing to do with her.
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 7: Can't get out of there fast enough.
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 2: I see why. Now she's knocking people little for the
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 2: fucking kid.
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean you feel that, You've got to feel
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 4: that energy, right, that kind of like just yeah, like damn.
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 7: Mm hmmm.
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah. And then you know, at the end of the day,
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 4: she starts sacrificing the poor women, initially poor women, so.
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 7: Damn messed up. So she cleans up the mess, which
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 7: I'm sure was a mess. I can't imagine how long
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 7: that probably took to clean up, especially because it was
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 7: her first attempt, so she was not well practiced that
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 7: she was for the second and third attempts. Yea, yea.
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 3: But she.
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 7: Got rid of all the body parts. She threw them
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 7: in the sewage or like the septic system or something
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 7: like that. And she decided she was going to keep
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 7: the money that Faustina had in her suitcases. She's like,
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 7: why not, I might as well pocket it. She's not
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 7: gonna need it, and then she throws all of her
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 7: belongings in the closet and just leaves them in there,
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 7: and then starts to figure out who she's gonna off next.
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 7: So she goes back to her collection of books and
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 7: tries to figure out what she had done wrong the
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 7: first time, because remember, she's a perfectionist, so she feels
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 7: like it had to be something that she did during
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 7: the process that wasn't the right way and it messed
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 7: things up. But she eventually came to the conclusion that
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 7: she had done everything right and it must have been
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 7: the wrong sacrifice, so it must not have been an
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 7: equal exchange. That's how she rationalized it in her mind.
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 2: Maybe these people have certain values of worth.
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 4: Fuck her parent, all.
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 7: Right, poor Fostina, a little old spinster. She had value.
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 2: One of the boyfriends, for sakes, just wanted late, only
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 2: like thirty years old, to to be considered probably, Yeah,
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: what does that even mean? Sorry? I didn't when you
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 2: said that earlier. I was going to ask, but I
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 2: felt stupid. But fuck it, what's suspinster? I never heard
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 2: that before.
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 7: It's basically an old, washed up an old washed up
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 7: woman who.
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 2: Your thirties to be considered that back.
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 5: Then, probably yeah, nies, I get.
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 2: So young, God damn right, fuck.
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 7: Yep, single, never married? Yeah, too old to really be
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 7: able to have kids at least back then they probably
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 7: felt that way.
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 2: That's said, yeah, all right, So whos the next one
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 2: who gets it now?
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 7: So the next target was Francesca Swavi, which I probably
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 7: butchered that. I'm sorry, don't come for me. But this
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 7: woman she deeply trusted Leonarda as well. There's another one
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 7: of the ladies that came to visit and have teacakes often.
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 7: So Francesca was a school teacher and she was I
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 7: think relatively newly widowed at the time. So she had
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 7: left her teaching position a while ago before this so
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 7: that she could take care of her husband while he
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 7: was dying. And so she also never had any kids.
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 7: So this is why Leonarda picked her. She's like, again,
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 7: she's probably not going to be very missed because her
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 7: husband's dead, she didn't have any kids. She knew that
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 7: she was kind of falling on hard times at this
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 7: point because again she had left her job to care
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 7: for her husband and when she started looking for work again,
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 7: this was something that she came to Leonardo about a lot.
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 7: She was trying to find work again and the jobs
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 7: were very limited because it wasn't a very big town.
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 7: So she knew that she was desperate to find a job,
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 7: so she uses that to her advantage, and just like before,
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 7: she promised a better opportunity elsewhere, and she told Francesca
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 7: that she had heard about an exclusive teaching position at
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 7: an elite girls' school in Piacenza. Did I say that right,
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 7: I don't know, but it was far far away, like
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 7: closer to Bologna and Milan. OK, of course, of course,
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 7: because all these places are far far away. But she
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 7: tells her that because of the family's extreme concern for privacy,
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 7: that the school's location had to remain completely a secret.
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 7: She couldn't tell anybody, but she had to write the
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 7: letters to acquaintances to let them know that where she
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 7: went and why, and that she would make sure that
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 7: they were sent to the post office after she left.
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 7: Once again, and side note her errand boy for these
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 7: letters to be taken to the post office, because she
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 7: did do that so that she could buy herself time.
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 7: So it seemed like they were sending letters here and there.
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 7: She'd sent j SEPPI to do that. She's like, here,
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 7: can you take these to the post office? And it
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 7: was like a specific post office that he was supposed
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 7: to take them to, and he's just like, whatever, it's mom,
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 7: she's weird. I'm just going to do it and just
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 7: not even ask. I don't care. Seemed harmless, So yeah,
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 7: just a little side note there. But of course Francesca
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 7: eagerly agreed. She's like, sounds great, I need work. Let's
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 7: do this, I trust you. So on the morning of
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 7: September fifth, nineteen forty, Francesca arrives at Leonarda's home with
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 7: her bags packed, ready to go. Nervous about leaving everything
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 7: she knew behind, she gratefully accepted that glass of wine
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 7: to take the edge off. And once again she had
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 7: been poisoned, and once again Leonarda struck her with an axe,
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 7: killing her. But according to Leonarda, this time she felt
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 7: more prepared and more in control, and she had placed
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 7: basins around the chair where Francesca sat so that none
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 7: of the blood would be wasted this time. So I
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 7: can just imagine this, like you're.
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 2: This Lady's going to keep doing it exactly.
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 7: She's getting really methodical about it, which is not a
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 7: good sign.
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 2: But she said she felt like she was in control
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 2: right there. That's that's what I think. That's what she
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 2: was looking for. Yep.
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 7: And she just keeps adding like little extra details to
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 7: the mix, which is okay, dexter okay. So yep, she's
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 7: collecting every drop that she possibly can. This time, she
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 7: doesn't want any of it to be wasted, Just to
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 7: be on the safe side. She dismembers the body, separates
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 7: the limbs and everything, and hangs them up on the
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 7: hooks bleeds them out, just like she did the last time.
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 7: And as she's doing this, she notices something she had
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 7: not noticed with Faustina, the first victim. Beneath the skin
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 7: was a visible yellow layer of fat. So this excited her.
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 7: And that's again a big red flag. If you're getting
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 7: excited about this, you enjoy it.
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 2: They're just a product or a commodity at this point.
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 7: Mm hmm. So her first victim, Faustina, had been very thin,
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 7: and Leonardo began to suspect that the lack of fat
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 7: was why the soap experiment had failed. So when she
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 7: sees this layer of yellow fat, she's like, this is it.
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 2: Did even buffalo bill like the thick chicksen uh in
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 2: silence of the limbs. Mm yep.
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 5: He wanted the skin to sag. That's why he would
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 5: starve then, because he wanted.
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 4: To exactly he started out bigger and make it loose.
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 4: Then you know, puts him in the well and she goes.
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 5: Down in the basket.
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 7: Yeahstice again.
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 4: Wow o.
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 7: So she so she does all the same ship again.
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 7: She dries the blood in the oven, makes it into
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 7: a powder, baked it into teacakes, and when the first
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 7: batch came out, she tasted one her self and she
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 7: found a little dry and with a strong iron like taste.
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 8: But.
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 2: From the pots.
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 7: Little irony.
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 2: She ate it herself ye while eating.
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 7: While eating it, she claims that she felt what she
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 7: later described as an electric sensation on her tongue, and
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 7: she knew that this was a sign of magic, and
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 7: she had become convinced that the ritual had finally worked.
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 7: She's like, Oh, I'm getting a zing on my tongue.
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 7: This is it. It's the one.
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 2: Holy crap goes like.
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 7: Yeah, she's she's gone at this point.
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 2: That's Tata, what do you think about this? Lady?
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 6: I heard this story so many times, so many times.
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 5: She's crazy.
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 6: Not to throw to turn crazy out there, but she's crazy.
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 6: And I think what you put out in the universe
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 6: is what you get back. So if you truly believe
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 6: your curse, that's the energy I think you're gonna put
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 6: out there.
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I do to an extent. Yeah, yeah, that is
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 2: very interesting to put it that way. I agree.
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 7: So, after she eats the blood biscuit and thinks it
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 7: tastes delicious, little irony, but still good, and she gives
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 7: her a zing on the tongue, she goes to check
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 7: the pot where the body parts were boiling, and once again,
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 7: the mixture had turned into a thick, dark sludge, basically
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 7: useless to Leonarda, She's not going to use something like
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 7: that because she has to have perfection. So she's like, well,
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 7: I guess I have to do this again.
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 2: Oh come on, I guess.
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 7: I guess I have to dump this shit out and
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 7: start over. But she decided to keep the cakes because
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 7: I mean, she did get that magical zing on her tongue,
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 7: and she's like, well, I might as well save these
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 7: and give them to Giuseppe, because at least in the
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 7: meantime it'll protect him on the inside. So he gets
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 7: home that night, she asks him to pour the batch
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 7: of ruined soap down the septic tank, so he doesn't
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 7: even know what he's doing. He doesn't even know he's
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 7: dumping body parts down into the septic tank. And then
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 7: she's like, here you go, here's some biscuits from leftover
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 7: from the day.
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 2: He's like disposing it in like multiple ways. At this point,
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 2: he's eating it to fucking so wos. It's just the
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 2: mother even doing that is so twisted, Like can your
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 2: kid do that? Shit? Yeah, you fucking boil.
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 7: It just never gets any better. This never gets better.
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 7: At this point, after the murders of Faustina and Francesca,
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 7: Leonarda had lost a moral line that she could never
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 7: return from. And she knew that, but she became convinced
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 7: that of saving her beloved son required more sacrifices. She
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 7: would kill as many people as necessary. And see, this
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 7: is why I'm certain she never would have stopped.
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 2: She needs to get a recipe, correct, that's the fucking problem.
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 7: Damn it. So she returns to her books once again
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 7: to see what the hell she's doing wrong, and she
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 7: began to believe that she'd made a crucial mistake during
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 7: the first two murders. She convinced herself that a sacrifice
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 7: only had power if it truly meant something to her.
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 7: If the act didn't cause her emotional pain, if it
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 7: didn't feel like a real loss, then it wasn't a
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 7: true sacrifice at all. She believed that she needed to
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 7: embrace the grief and sadness, focusing completely on the purpose
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 7: behind the act. Only then could the ritual truly work.
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 7: Demented So this means that Leonarda's third and final victim
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 7: would be very different from the others. Unlike the previous
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 7: women she targeted, Virginia Cauchopo I think was not obscure
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 7: or forgotten. She was well known and admired, so Virginia
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 7: wasn't that kind of an odd name for the time,
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 7: like Leonarda Virginia. But nonetheless, Virginia Cuchopo was a former
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 7: opera singer, so she was well known, and she had
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 7: once performed on respected stages all across Italy. But by
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 7: the time that Leonarda met her, Virginia's life looked very
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 7: different from her glamorous passed and she had moved to
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 7: the little town of Corregio to settle down and live
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 7: a quieter life and leave kind of the stars behind her,
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 7: and they became close. So she was one of the
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 7: women who frequented coming over to see Leonarda, and they
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 7: were like best friends. I guess. They were very close,
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 7: and Leonarda genuinely adored this woman, and vice versa. They
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 7: were kind of the celebrities I guess of the town.
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 7: So Virginia because of her past, and then Leonarda because
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 7: she was like the wise woman that everybody came to
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 7: for advice. So they grew close because of that, I guess.
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 7: And she had Virginia's confidence, so she knew that she
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 7: could convince her, so as she'd done before, she began
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 7: crafting story to lure Virginia in, and I guess sometime
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 7: in their conversations, Virginia had hinted to Leonarda that she
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 7: missed singing and she wanted to go back and try
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 7: to find a gig again and see if she could
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 7: get back into that lifestyle again because she was bored,
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 7: she was unsettled, and I felt like maybe there was
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 7: a way that she could live out the rest of
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 7: her days living her dream and that kind of pissed
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 7: leonarda off because they were best friends and she felt
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 7: like she was going to abandon her. So I feel
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 7: like that probably played a part in this too, where
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 7: she felt like, you're gonna leave me. Oh no, you're not,
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 7: You're not going anywhere. I feel like that had to
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 7: play a role in this in one way or another.
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 7: So that's what she used as her hook, just like
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 7: she did with the other people. So she tells her
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 7: that there's this financier guy who needed someone like Virginia
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 7: to do, like to be his public person, like to
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 7: go to events and things for him, and eventually maybe
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 7: he could get her to a place where she could
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 7: be back on stage. And Virginia, having lived this life before,
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 7: she understood like that you had to be pretty secretive
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 7: about these things, so of course that was part of it.
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 7: She's like, you can't say much. He wants to keep
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 7: his identity private. He doesn't want you telling telling anybody
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 7: who he is. And Virginia's like, oh, I completely understand.
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 7: I remember how those people are. That's fine. So she
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 7: was actually the easiest one to get to write the
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 7: letters because she because of her past, and she's like, oh,
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 7: I get it. I totally get it. So over the following.
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 2: It's amazing that shit she thinks up.
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, she had to be just plotting constantly all
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 7: the time.
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 7: It became a game. It seems like it became a
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 7: game to her. It was probably all she thought about
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 7: day in and day out. So over the following weeks,
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 7: Virginia would repeatedly visit Leonarda and I guess she was
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 7: just sprinkling in details to really convince her that this
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 7: was a real thing. And eventually she knew the full
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 7: story and they started to make plans for her to
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 7: set off for her new life. And this actually Virginia
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 7: was thrilled. She was so excited. I mean, if you
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 7: think about it, it would literally be like two best friends
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 7: hanging out talking about this like they're Probably she was
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 7: probably building her up so much, like, oh my gosh,
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 7: this is so great that you actually found an opportunity
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 7: like this so messed up. So on September thirtieth of
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 7: nineteen forty, Virginia packed her belongings said goodbye to her
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 7: brother and that's who her family. She did have family
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 7: in town, so it was her brother and sister in
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 7: law that she was staying with while she was in Corregio,
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 7: so she says goodbye to them, makes her way to
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 7: Leonarda's home, and unlike the other victims, Virginia I guess
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 7: arrived later in the day, around midday, and when she arrived,
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 7: she noticed it was unusual that the shop was closed,
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 7: because every time, obviously that Leonarda did this, she'd shut
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 7: down the shop for the day. And Virgina's like, what's
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 7: up with that? And leonardo reassured her brush off, handed
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 7: her the glass of wine. Virginia's like, nah, I'm good.
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 7: I want to stay clear headed for the meeting, and
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 7: Leonarda kept persisting that it would help her relax and
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 7: by the time she got there it'd be worn off.
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 7: So after repeated encouragement, Virginia finally drinks the wine and
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 7: we all know where this goes. Not good. So Leonarda
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 7: followed through with the plan, but with a key difference,
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 7: she allowed herself to feel those feelings, the feelings of
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 7: emotional weight of what she was doing in her mind.
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 7: This made the sacrifice more powerful and meaningful. As she
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 7: dismembered the body, she made a discovery that absolutely thrilled her.
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 7: Beneath the skin was that thick layer of fat that
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 7: she'd been looking for. Unlike the previous victims, it was smooth, pale,
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 7: and abundant. Leonarda believed that this was a sign she
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 7: had finally done everything correctly, and in her mind, Virginia
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 7: was the right sacrifice all along. So she goes about
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 7: her little ritual, dismembers the body, makes the tea cakes,
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 7: places the body parts in the caustic soda mixture. But
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 7: there was something not quite right about the smell. So
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 7: determined to fix it, she went through Virginia's belongings, and
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 7: I guess she took her perfume and dumped it into
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 7: the soap mixture, and the room, in Leonarda's words, was
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 7: filled with the pleasant, familiar fragrance of her friend. It
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 7: was nice, It's not so demented. So this was the
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 7: final time she believed that she had finally done it.
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 7: So she goes through with making the soap, and she
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 7: believes the spell had worked, and time was running out
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 7: because the war was drawing near. So this is that
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 7: weird bath that I was talking about earlier. So she's
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 7: got all her soaps ready, She's got her blood biscuits ready,
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 7: and Giuseppe comes home after work one day and she's like, Okay,
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 7: I'm drawing you a bath. Why don't you go get in?
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 7: And he's like thanks, thanks for drawing me a bath.
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 7: And she's like, but I'm gonna wash you. And just
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 7: Giuseppe at this point he's a grown ass man. He's like, no,
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 7: you're not. She's like, yeah, get in the tub, I'm
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 7: gonna wash you. He's like, the hell you are no,
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 7: and she's like, get in, I'm washing you. And finally,
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 7: for whatever reason, he gives in and thus starts the
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 7: most uncomfortable and awkward bath in the history of all bads.
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 7: And she watches. She washes every inch of him, every
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 7: inch has to be covered in her mind to be
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 7: sure that he is fully protected by the spell. And this, essentially,
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 7: I guess this obviously ruined their relationship completely. Like DUCEPPI
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 7: was like, I'm done, there's no more. He hated her
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 7: after this, I guess, like beyond repair. Hated her technically
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 7: technically yep, because he was.
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 3: It was moving him away from the one thing that
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 3: was the most harmful thing.
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 7: Good point, really, good point. Yeah, she was too much,
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 7: so after the bath, she's like, Okay, now I've got
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 7: those teacakes over there. I want you to eat those.
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 7: And he's like, I don't want your fucking teacakes. I'm
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 7: done with you. Like, get away from me, you just
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 7: wash my balls, I'm done, leave me alone. And she's like,
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 7: you're gonna eat the tea cakes, and I guess she
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 7: took one and just shoved it in his mouth. And
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 7: at this point he's like, what in the hell is
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 7: wrong with you? Like, what is going on here?
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 2: Could you imagine that? What like experiencing this? I'd be like, yo,
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 2: what the fuck?
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 7: Well, he probably thought, I mean, he probably knew that
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 7: she was just crazy at this point she had lost
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 7: her mind. Yeah, that's probably the only way that he
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 7: can justify any of it, Like, what in the hell
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 7: is happening here? But she did not care. Leonarda was like,
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 7: if you have to hate me, that's fine, because I
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 7: did what I needed to do. You're protected, you're safe.
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 7: If you have to hate me for the rest of eternity,
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 7: so be it. She didn't care. Her deed was done.
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 7: I do wonder though, if it really would have been done,
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 7: if if she really would.
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 2: Have stopped m hm, did she go ahead? Go ahead?
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 7: I was just going to say. In the following days,
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 7: she gifted the rest of the soap to friends and
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 7: neighbors and they said it was her best batch ever.
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 2: I knew it. That's crazy.
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 7: Yeah, what were you going to say, though?
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 2: Did she get caught? Yeah? I was assume because we
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 2: know about it. Yeah.
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 7: Yeah, she like, I feel like a lot of these
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 7: serial killers do they a little cocky? And that's pretty
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 7: much what she did with Virginia, because Virginia was well known.
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 7: But she's like, I've done this twice. It's fine. But
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 7: it was not fine. And that's eventually how she ends
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 7: up getting caught is Virginia's sister in law, so she
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 7: was there with her brother and sister in law. That's
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 7: where she was staying. Once these letters stopped coming, the
• 1:39:26
  Speaker 7: sister in law is like, this is weird. Something's off.
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 7: This is not like Virginia to just suddenly stop sending
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 7: letters and checking in. It's just not her, and I
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 7: guess they were very close. She was close with her
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 7: sister in law. So her sister in law starts asking
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 7: questions and she starts going around town seeing who Virginia
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 7: had been close to who she had visited last, and
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 7: this led her to Leonarda's shop. So and she starts
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 7: asking her. She's like, I heard that Virginia was here
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 7: the other day. What were you guys doing? Like have
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 7: you seen her since? And Leonarda' is like, oh, no,
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 7: I haven't heard from her since that day. But do
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 7: you want a palm reading? Just nuts? And her sister
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 7: in law is not impressed. She's like, no, I don't
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 7: want to fuck a palm reading? Like are you out
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 7: of your mind? Where is Virginia? So she immediately felt
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 7: like something was wrong here and she left, went over
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 7: and spoke with the neighbors and they told her that
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 7: they had seen Virginia there and she was dressed really
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 7: nicely when she went in, and then they never saw
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 7: her leave. So at this point she's like, okay, something
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 7: something's wrong here. So she goes to the police and
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 7: that's when they start to investigate things. That's when they
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 7: kind of make the connections between all these three women
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 7: that are missing, and they start putting the pieces together,
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 7: which again leads them back to Leonarda's shop. So they
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 7: bring her in for questioning, and this is so funny
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 7: but not they don't believe her, like eventually, after all
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 7: of this, they initially question her, she eventually she lies
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 7: at first, and then they start to suspect Giuseppe because
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 7: they're like, we know that it was at that house,
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 7: we know that it's there's a connection to your shop,
• 1:41:39
  Speaker 7: so if it wasn't you, then it had to be Giuseppe.
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 7: And this is when they figure out that he was
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 7: the one that was taking all of the letters to
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 7: the post office, so they're like, well, we have our
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 7: connection right there. It was him. So they bring them
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 7: in and he's like, what are you talking about. I
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 7: have no clue what's going on here. I've never heard
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 7: about any of this. Of course, he's being genuine, but
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 7: the police are like, this is a more plausible thing.
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 7: A middle aged woman couldn't possibly do this, and she's
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 7: so sweet and innocent. But they go to the shop
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 7: and they find all the women's belongings in the closet
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 7: because that's where she'd stuffed them after she'd killed them.
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 7: So this just further makes them believe that it was Duseeppi,
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 7: so they press him until finally Leonarda goes in and
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 7: she's like, it was me. I did it. He didn't
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 7: have anything to do with this, and they're like, no,
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 7: you didn't. They didn't believe her. They didn't believe that
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 7: she could possibly do something like that. So in order
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 7: for her to prove that she had done this, she's like,
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 7: why don't you take me down to the moor and
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 7: I can show you exactly how I do it. So
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 7: they did. They took her down and they let her
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 7: dismember a body at the morgue to prove that she
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 7: could have indeed done this.
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 2: Before I get them, yep, thought.
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 7: Yep. But in the meantime, when she is confessing to them,
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 7: Giuseppe's in the same room and she's confessing all this
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 7: shit about turning the bodies into soap, baking the tea cakes,
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 7: and he starts vomiting because he's he's realizing what the
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 7: hell happened. He's like, oh my god, she fed me
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 7: this shit. She bathed me in a dead body, so
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 7: he is sick, and he basically is like, she did this,
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 7: she's batshit crazy. I one believe that she's responsible.
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 2: So you just tell her about the show was seating.
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think that's proof enough. This pictures putting
• 1:44:05
  Speaker 2: people in soap yep, oh man.
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 7: So they rest her. She has a trial, and I
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 7: guess the only person in her family that stuck by
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 7: her was Raphael, Like even after this he he stuck
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 7: by her. But after she was arrested, I guess he
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 7: turned to alcohol and ended up dying before the trial
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 7: even started. Oh probably because he was probably so stressed out,
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 7: who knows, but yeah, all of her kids disowned her.
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 7: Giuseppe headed off to war. Her trial was held in Milan,
• 1:44:51
  Speaker 7: and this is where again she loved talking about what
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 7: she'd done, which I mean she had to enjoy it.
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 7: So she was sentenced to thirty years in prison plus
• 1:45:04
  Speaker 7: three years in a mental asylum, which brings back that
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 7: fortune teller where they're like in one hand prison and
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 7: the other hand mental asylum. So that's kind of weird.
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 3: Talk about self fulfilling prophecies, seriously.
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 7: Yeah, So she was sent to Buzuli prison and I
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 7: guess she thrived there because she basically took on the
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 7: same role that she had in Corregio, to where she
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 7: was the confidant for all the other inmates, so they'd
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 7: come to her for advice. She ended up working in
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 7: the kitchens there. I guess.
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 4: That's what I was going to ask. They let her
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 4: make them.
• 1:45:47
  Speaker 7: Yep, she actually this is so weird. In her memoir
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 7: there's a section with all of her recipes in it
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 7: that I guess chefs still use to this day because
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 7: they were so good.
• 1:46:02
  Speaker 4: I don't know, hopefully hopefully.
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you can't meet this shit up.
• 1:46:11
  Speaker 4: I know.
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 7: So her her memoir is the Confessions of an Embittered
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 7: Soul if you want to look into it and read that,
• 1:46:22
  Speaker 7: because I guess it details everything. So there's a little
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 7: a little bit of a poetic justice situation here. So
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 7: after twenty years in prison, she suffered a stroke and
• 1:46:40
  Speaker 7: eventually she was sent to the asylum. They diagnosed her
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 7: with a brain bleed and they suggest that that could
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 7: have been caused from all the fumes from the caustic soda.
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 7: That's that's kind of weird. But she eventually died on
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 7: October fourteenth of nineteen seventy at the age of seventy six.
• 1:47:04
  Speaker 7: Nobody ever claimed her ashes, And like you said, they
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 7: displayed her stuff and where was that then? To me
• 1:47:15
  Speaker 7: the Criminology Museum in Rome, and even her little pot
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 7: is displayed. They got her little cauldron in there if
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 7: you want to go take a look at it.
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 2: See I don't know if you if you have it
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 2: on your end. But like enlicted a few things that
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 2: made me think that she might have used more than
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 2: just an axe on these people. Oh really Yeah, that
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 2: there was a hacksaw something else.
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 7: And I was like, oh, oh no, I didn't see that.
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 7: I saw that there was the cauldron and the axe
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 7: and like the little.
• 1:47:49
  Speaker 4: Ladle Uh.
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, hammer, hacksaw, kitchen knife, axes, hatchet, and tridd connected
• 1:47:57
  Speaker 2: to the case.
• 1:47:59
  Speaker 7: See, she was she had a whole system.
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 2: That's what I was saying. When I saw that, I
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 2: was like, Oh, she knew what she was doing. She
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 2: liked this too. She was too methodical.
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:48:09
  Speaker 7: So after all of this, they lost track of Duceppe,
• 1:48:13
  Speaker 7: Like he was most likely killed in combat. So all
• 1:48:19
  Speaker 7: of this was for nothing. Anyways.
• 1:48:22
  Speaker 2: I was going to ask did he make it back
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 2: from the war? I was going to ask that never.
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 7: Made it back, never made it back. And I'm pretty
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 7: sure all of her kids changed their names so that
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 7: they wouldn't be associated with her. That's that's a wrap,
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 7: that's it messed.
• 1:48:43
  Speaker 4: Up, wacky.
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we never had some crazy true crime ship on
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 2: the show before, but this might be up there. Man,
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 2: this is a twisted case.
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah, twisted for sure.
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 2: Oh you know what the problem is. Though, sometimes Juliet
• 1:48:59
  Speaker 2: will tell you such disturbing stories in such a funny way.
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 2: I don't think it hits you asd But this, yeah,
• 1:49:08
  Speaker 2: this was holy cry screwed up.
• 1:49:14
  Speaker 7: Never at biscuits the same.
• 1:49:18
  Speaker 3: I could see how you could feel sorry for her
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 3: how this story started. But at one point either she
• 1:49:28
  Speaker 3: snapped or she just wouldn't take accountability.
• 1:49:32
  Speaker 6: Mm hmm.
• 1:49:35
  Speaker 3: I have to admit I was afraid that Rafael was
• 1:49:37
  Speaker 3: gonna get it when you were talking about the last victim.
• 1:49:39
  Speaker 7: I was like, oh no, oh, yeah, I'm actually surprised
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 7: that she didn't do that. I wonder if she eventually
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 7: would have. And in my because I'm sorry, I was
• 1:49:52
  Speaker 7: just gonna say, I feel like, had g Seppi gone
• 1:49:55
  Speaker 7: off to war, I wonder if she would have switched
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 7: her focus onto one of her other kids and just
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 7: kept going with it or something true.
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 3: And I think Raphael died of a broken heart because
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 3: he was the only one that truly loved her and
• 1:50:10
  Speaker 3: it was not enough for her.
• 1:50:12
  Speaker 7: Mm hm, oh, yeah, you're probably right.
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 2: I never even thought of looking at it at that angle. Yeah,
• 1:50:21
  Speaker 2: that's gonna be rough twisted. Well, that was a happy Sunday.
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 7: Gosh, it's almost as bad as when I released an
• 1:50:35
  Speaker 7: episode about horrible things happening to children on Mother's Day.
• 1:50:39
  Speaker 7: I'm like, just leave it to me to do that.
• 1:50:48
  Speaker 2: You're funny. Well, thank you. I mean that was awesome.
• 1:50:53
  Speaker 2: That was That was pretty pretty detailed too, Like I
• 1:50:58
  Speaker 2: would have to say, even for a true crime, for
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 2: somebody to come on and talk as much as you
• 1:51:02
  Speaker 2: did and cover as much as you did, that was long. No,
• 1:51:04
  Speaker 2: I'm not an occay was that's actually impressive. I was like,
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 2: holy shit.
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 7: I think you said that to me last time too.
• 1:51:10
  Speaker 7: I'm like, is that a nice way of saying I
• 1:51:11
  Speaker 7: talked too much?
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 2: No? No, no, obviously, I have you back on again.
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 2: I'll have you on again. Yeah, no for real.
• 1:51:20
  Speaker 4: Gives me all kinds of ideas for my podcast. I'm
• 1:51:23
  Speaker 4: just saying, good.
• 1:51:26
  Speaker 2: Oh, I don't know. I don't know if I haven't
• 1:51:28
  Speaker 2: told you before, I bet it. I forgot what was
• 1:51:31
  Speaker 2: that optomic? Oh god, that thing with the shining the
• 1:51:33
  Speaker 2: light in people's brains. Yeah, yeah, it was Damn. I
• 1:51:37
  Speaker 2: forgot the word for it. I am. I was going
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 2: to do a show on it, and I was gonna
• 1:51:42
  Speaker 2: I meant to tell you that. I was like, thank
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 2: you for the idea.
• 1:51:45
  Speaker 4: Damn it, I can't remember.
• 1:51:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, optogenics some.
• 1:51:49
  Speaker 4: Sh we come up with too much.
• 1:51:53
  Speaker 7: Ship, You're talking.
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 2: About flesh and lights on people's brains. I was like, yo,
• 1:51:57
  Speaker 2: I gotta go look into those. Yeah, very interesting, but yeah,
• 1:52:04
  Speaker 2: thank you both. That was again. That was that was
• 1:52:08
  Speaker 2: an impressive show. Thank you very disturbing. Yeah, yeah, no, definitely,
• 1:52:13
  Speaker 2: well definitely, you know, I would definitely love to have
• 1:52:15
  Speaker 2: you on again in the future, so I'm sure we'll
• 1:52:17
  Speaker 2: be talking again about this sick twisted ship. Was this
• 1:52:23
  Speaker 2: one of your like more demented stories, would you there?
• 1:52:31
  Speaker 7: We got a lot of weird ones, Yeah, we do.
• 1:52:34
  Speaker 7: We do.
• 1:52:35
  Speaker 4: It's weird, kind of run of the mill average.
• 1:52:39
  Speaker 7: It's just another day in the office, that's.
• 1:52:41
  Speaker 2: Right, all right. Yeah, we'll definitely get you on in
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 2: the future to cover another one. So I don't mention
• 1:52:48
  Speaker 2: any of the other ones then yet they and you've covered,
• 1:52:52
  Speaker 2: like you've covered some of the crazy ones, Like did
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 2: you have any more coming up in the future that
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 2: you have your your mindset on you.
• 1:53:01
  Speaker 5: The one that we're going to do Sunday.
• 1:53:03
  Speaker 6: We have a Cursed Object series and we're going to
• 1:53:07
  Speaker 6: do Little Bastard James Dean's car.
• 1:53:11
  Speaker 7: That's excited for that one.
• 1:53:13
  Speaker 4: Objects are great, you Cursed objects, Yeah, just in general.
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 6: But I don't know after that because I'm doing that one.
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 6: So I'm not sure the following for Jessica's topic, but.
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 7: I've started so many I need to just pick one
• 1:53:34
  Speaker 7: and finish it. But one of the big ones that
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 7: I'm looking forward to, I know you are too, is
• 1:53:40
  Speaker 7: Lizzie Borden.
• 1:53:42
  Speaker 8: Nice.
• 1:53:43
  Speaker 7: It's probably going to be a multi partyer because it's
• 1:53:46
  Speaker 7: it's a lot, but I like to be thorough, you.
• 1:53:51
  Speaker 2: Know, Jessica. You guys switch off on who comes the
• 1:53:55
  Speaker 2: topics for some reason.
• 1:53:57
  Speaker 5: It allows us to get more detail.
• 1:54:01
  Speaker 6: And two, we have a lot of partners, so we
• 1:54:03
  Speaker 6: like to tell the story kind of from as you
• 1:54:05
  Speaker 6: can see, we have long episodes.
• 1:54:08
  Speaker 5: We like to go into detail with our episodes.
• 1:54:12
  Speaker 2: Nice.
• 1:54:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm gonna read your I'm gonna watch your Skinwalker
• 1:54:16
  Speaker 4: ranch from here.
• 1:54:19
  Speaker 2: Yo. That is such a weird place.
• 1:54:22
  Speaker 7: Dude, Montana did that one?
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 4: No idea?
• 1:54:28
  Speaker 2: All right? Uh, I'll let you ladies, my time, I
• 1:54:30
  Speaker 2: go ahead and plug the show or whatever you like
• 1:54:32
  Speaker 2: to say advertised.
• 1:54:35
  Speaker 6: Oh yeah, so, like the beginning of this is the
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 6: last stuff that we talk about that Nick mentioned, and
• 1:54:41
  Speaker 6: you can find us on all the social media's wherever
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 6: be listening to podcasts like Apple, Spotify, Amazon, Music Weekly,
• 1:54:47
  Speaker 6: Bizarre Podcasts, and email us Weekly Bizarre podcast at gmail
• 1:54:51
  Speaker 6: dot com. I know I've been a little quiet on
• 1:54:54
  Speaker 6: this episode. I have a screaming baby in the background,
• 1:54:56
  Speaker 6: so I didn't want to take from that distraction.
• 1:54:59
  Speaker 5: So but yeah, Jessica, she's a really good storyteller.
• 1:55:03
  Speaker 6: So if you like her stories, you gotta go check
• 1:55:05
  Speaker 6: out our podcast maybe for her.
• 1:55:07
  Speaker 5: So, oh, it's really good at this.
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 6: She hates compliments. Give her all the compliments, thank you.
• 1:55:14
  Speaker 6: Hates it, but she's really good at this.
• 1:55:16
  Speaker 2: So yeah, you know, when I checked out your stuff,
• 1:55:18
  Speaker 2: I actually, Jessica, I thought you did it very well.
• 1:55:20
  Speaker 2: So yeah, that's why I keep it real. I hit
• 1:55:22
  Speaker 2: you guys up. I was like, she tells the story
• 1:55:24
  Speaker 2: very good.
• 1:55:25
  Speaker 6: Even reading stories we've done some Reddit, some really creepy
• 1:55:29
  Speaker 6: Reddit stories.
• 1:55:29
  Speaker 2: She just thought about doing that myself.
• 1:55:32
  Speaker 7: It's fun.
• 1:55:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it looks like it would be just easy fucking
• 1:55:35
  Speaker 2: crazy world ship to pop on Reddit stories.
• 1:55:39
  Speaker 7: Usually if we do that, it's because somebody needed a
• 1:55:42
  Speaker 7: little bit of a break.
• 1:55:43
  Speaker 2: You No, No, I get That's exactly how it. No,
• 1:55:46
  Speaker 2: I get it.
• 1:55:47
  Speaker 5: Research takes time, so I might this might.
• 1:55:50
  Speaker 4: This might have given me the inspiration because jewels, people
• 1:55:56
  Speaker 4: know jewels on this show gave me the idea to
• 1:55:59
  Speaker 4: do Uncle Bennett's creepy bad time stories.
• 1:56:03
  Speaker 2: So you got the voice for it, two of us.
• 1:56:06
  Speaker 4: And that's what I'm saying. And he said uncle Bennett
• 1:56:08
  Speaker 4: because Uncle Bennett's just that's even creepier.
• 1:56:12
  Speaker 2: Right, you gotta do it, dude, You really should.
• 1:56:15
  Speaker 7: You totally should.
• 1:56:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:56:17
  Speaker 4: You guys are bad giving me all kinds of crazy ideas,
• 1:56:22
  Speaker 4: good stuff.
• 1:56:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Jessica, is there anything, uh you want to plug
• 1:56:26
  Speaker 2: or anything? I mean, thank you again for coming on
• 1:56:28
  Speaker 2: and covering the topic. Amazing.
• 1:56:30
  Speaker 7: Thanks for having us anytime. Like I said, we've got
• 1:56:33
  Speaker 7: tons of stuff. Just take your pick and we can
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 7: come back and talk about it. Definitely, I think everybody's
• 1:56:39
  Speaker 7: said everything that needs to be said. Like Montana said,
• 1:56:42
  Speaker 7: we're everywhere weekly BI.
• 1:56:43
  Speaker 2: Is our podcast, and uh, Judith, let everybody know whether
• 1:56:48
  Speaker 2: you can find all your amazing work too.
• 1:56:52
  Speaker 3: First, thank you for having me Nick and ladies. Is
• 1:56:54
  Speaker 3: always a pleasure. You pleasure and everybody else. You can
• 1:57:02
  Speaker 3: find me on speaker, YouTube and x as the loan.
• 1:57:06
  Speaker 2: Thank you very much to I appreciate you and Bennett
• 1:57:09
  Speaker 2: my man. Please let everybody know I'll find all your.
• 1:57:11
  Speaker 4: Amusing broadcasting seeds everywhere where. You can find anything, you know,
• 1:57:16
  Speaker 4: the tube, YouTube, whatever, just type it in it'll come
• 1:57:22
  Speaker 4: so broadcasting seeds dot com and bennettan books dot com
• 1:57:28
  Speaker 4: and yeah, awesome, guys, this is great. Thank you, thank
• 1:57:33
  Speaker 4: you very much. And you definitely go check out his books.
• 1:57:35
  Speaker 4: You've got a couple of them out there.
• 1:57:36
  Speaker 2: He's that big on talking about him too much, but
• 1:57:38
  Speaker 2: go check him out and trying to help you out there. Yeah,
• 1:57:45
  Speaker 2: thank you all for coming on. I really I really
• 1:57:47
  Speaker 2: had a good time. Jessica Montana. Like I said, it's
• 1:57:49
  Speaker 2: always a pleasure having you both on. Hopefully keep getting
• 1:57:51
  Speaker 2: you one in the future to bring us some more weird,
• 1:57:53
  Speaker 2: crazy stories like this. Jadith and Bennett, thank you very
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 2: much for joining us. I had a great time and
• 1:57:59
  Speaker 2: everybody the chat, that's what's up. I appreciate it. That's
• 1:58:02
  Speaker 2: when we go alive and until the next one. Everybody
• 1:58:04
  Speaker 2: be well.
• 1:58:07
  Speaker 8: Close your eyes, look into the darkness, find the blazing star.
• 1:58:17
  Speaker 8: Focus on it. It'll become the eclipse. Don't feel that
• 1:58:27
  Speaker 8: the show will be God.
• 1:58:31
  Speaker 4: And death.
• 1:58:33
  Speaker 3: You sho