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Why Digital Literacy Is the New Small Business Skill | Do Small Business like a Big Boss · Do Small Business Like a Big Boss Podcast

• speaker-0: You're gonna pay for it in the end. They're not gonna be ones carrying the bag or the consequences you are. Don't do speaker-1: Hundred percent. So many people treat that as the thing they'll get to later. speaker-0: Culture is very hard to to develop. ⁓ it's a it's a hodgepodge of everyone's opinions and feelings. speaker-1: Your culture is the worst behavior you're willing to tolerate. speaker-0: don't have a well established culture of, you know, hey, this is how we approach things, this is how we do these things and this is how we hold people accountable. It can be very speaker-1: Welcome to Do Small Business Like a Big Boss, where we explore the real stories, hard-earned lessons, and game-changing strategies of entrepreneurs who've moved beyond the side hustle and build businesses that scale with confidence. This show is proudly sponsored by Project Icon. I'm your host, Aisha Jorge Massingil, your small business legal guy. Let's dive in. Hey bosses, welcome to To the latest episode of Do Small Business Like a Big Boss. I am your host, Aisha Jorge Massingill, your small business legal guide. And today I'm excited to be chatting with Ian Kimball. Ian is the co-founder and executive director of Black Tech Philly, a Philadelphia-based community organization focused on expanding access to technology, education, and digital literacy, and critical conversations about how technology impacts our daily lives. Welcome, Ian. speaker-0: Thank you, Aisha. ⁓ it's a pleasure to be here and ⁓ to be talking with you right now. I'm looking forward to our conversation. speaker-1: Awesome. So I want to just talk about how you're sitting in a coffee shop and you meet your co-founder. How does that conversation spark and tell me about that? speaker-0: Yeah. So this was several years ago, ⁓ twenty nineteen, which is like another world ago. ⁓ it's was around a time where I was ⁓ just getting my my feet wet in ⁓ the tech industry. ⁓ and one of the first things ⁓ that you want to do whenever you're, you know, entering a new industry is just try network, connect with people, make f build and make relationships. And so what better place in the coffee shop, right? and one day I was just working on ⁓ just a per small personal project. I look over and I see someone else. ⁓ they're tinkering away, coding. And ⁓ you know, I just kind of made that first move like, Hey, what are you working on? ⁓ that seems cool. And, you know, he was open to having a conversation. ⁓ before you know it, ⁓ he introduced me to something else. There ⁓ there are three co-founders of the program. ⁓ and after, you know, just kind of meeting, gelling with each other, having A lot of similar viewpoints on just expanding and ⁓ meeting more people and more so connecting more people in tech in Philadelphia. ⁓ we decided to develop a program called Black Tech Philly. ⁓ so yeah, that was like the birth in the coffee shop. Just you know, one me just eavesdropping being newsy turned into ⁓ something very special. speaker-1: Awesome. And so just expand a little bit more on what Black Tech Philly is and and what you all are doing over there. speaker-0: Yeah, so Black Tech Philly ⁓ is an educational nonprofit. ⁓ we were founded back in spring of twenty twenty. So ⁓ a wonderful time to start a business. Right. ⁓ but ⁓ as I mentioned, initially we had envisioned it to be more of a ⁓ professional networking program, ⁓ where ⁓ other folks, ⁓ particularly ⁓ people who were not Fully represented in tech could connect, have conversations, ⁓ assist and help each other, you know, pursue and t continue to develop their careers. ⁓ And we would host different sessions ⁓ to you know bring more people together. One of the but one of the things we found was that a lot of people who would come to our sessions in our discussions and talks ⁓ were people who were aspiring to get into technology. ⁓ and so We we found this commonality of, you know, young people ⁓ trying to, you know, branch into this industry. ⁓ people ⁓ who are of working age, ⁓ who are trying to transition from their previous industry into tech. ⁓ and so we sat down, brainstormed and decided pivoted from being ⁓ from the social aspect of it, which is still a component, but more so to the educational ⁓ component. ⁓ that following year, ⁓ we started our first educational cohort ⁓ where we wanted to one, try to provide this education ⁓ in computer science and technology as early as possible to the youth. ⁓ we were in our first school, our partner school, and since then ⁓ we've just kind of expanded that program to ⁓ about four schools in the city. ⁓ we also facilitate ⁓ Town halls. We just wrapped one up ⁓ last week, actually, ⁓ where we again have these conversations where we welcome the computer community ⁓ to Jordan's dialogue about how technology is impacting their lives, ⁓ how to stay safe ⁓ utilizing these tools. ⁓ even ⁓ going so far as ⁓ teaching ⁓ people ⁓ things about their devices that they may not even. been aware of and the software that they use on a daily basis. ⁓ so our program ⁓ is primarily focused on education, ⁓ specifically providing ⁓ curriculum and coursework and work and workshops, discussions on ⁓ computer science, ⁓ career paths and technology, digital safety, digital literacy, and now ⁓ AI safety and AI literacy. So speaker-1: Do you find that the appetite is already there for learning in this area? speaker-0: Absolutely. ⁓ I mentioned that last week ⁓ we wrapped up our fourth and last tech town hall session. So we ⁓ started these, you know, to celebrate the 250 annu anniversary of the country, ⁓ decided to ⁓ blend the civics of the moment with technology, especially at this, you know, really important moment in our history with AI. ⁓ and What we found was that, you know, people are very interested in these topics. ⁓ because these are everyday things. ⁓ this isn't something that is isolated to a device that, you know, maybe you interact with when you have a little bit ti of time after work. ⁓ we are we have supercomputers in our pockets. ⁓ how we ⁓ entertain ourselves, how we educate educate ourselves, how we communicate and everything in between is you know, essentially done through these devices. ⁓ and from people young ⁓ to people advanced in age, especially the elders, ⁓ find that they're very, very interested in this this stuff. And perhaps it's the thing of, you know, seeing their children and their grandchildren, it has that emotional connection to them where they want to pass this information on and, you know, provide that framework for them. Like if I'm the matriarch, patriarch of the family. I wanna make sure that they're gonna be all right. So yeah, I I would say there's a lot of passion and interest in these topics. speaker-1: I I would think also there's a certain amount of accessible or accessibility to the new technology that perhaps wasn't there in the past that drives ⁓ interest. Is that me just making that up or do you think that that's a component of the appetite that people have? speaker-0: Yeah, I think there's ⁓ I think if we might be overloaded with accessibility, barred with accessibility. Again, we have ⁓ devices in our pockets that ⁓ connect us to the entire world, ⁓ not just our neighborhoods anymore, or not just the contacts that we have in our phone books. ⁓ we can build relationships with people that we may have never even met before in person. ⁓ we can form Parasocial relationships with people that don't even know we exist. ⁓ so I would say the access is there and the inform access to that information, ⁓ absolutely. ⁓ the challenge is the media literacy component, right? ⁓ being able to have the discretion and know, okay, this doesn't sound quite right. Maybe I need to ⁓ do some research, right? ⁓ let me try to validate. This information by finding credible sources. And obviously that can be a lot of work. ⁓ but again, having just the small basic tools of understanding something as simple as: hey, this this feed or this ⁓ reel or short video, it's entertaining, but it's disguised as an advertisement, right? and it's designed to keep me on this. particular application to quite possibly get me to purchase something, right? ⁓ so I would say the the appetite for ⁓ getting this information is absolutely there as well. ⁓ it's just I think there's also this thing of the wisdom and the discretion of it. ⁓ and I think that's also ⁓ there. And people want to be able to to discern that. Everyone I think has their own interpretation of what is real nowadays. and again, that's a tricky question, but I think Again, having the media literacy, the digital literacy and and now the AI literacy of being able to discern, hey, this is there's some aspects of this video or ⁓ this piece of media I'm looking at that doesn't has a bit of a uncanny value aspect to it. So speaker-1: Yeah, it's interesting. Since the the Michael Jackson movie came out a couple of weeks ago, there's been such an increased interest. And I know I'm seeing in my timeline a lot more videos of him, especially like the throwback videos. But I saw a video today and I was like, Looks like him, sounds like him. I don't think he said that. ⁓ because it was just the language was just packaged so neatly into a particular narrative. And I was like, I'm gonna go back when I have time and see, like, was he really at that award show and said that? I think he was at that award show. I don't think he said that, but it looked so real. And so this whole idea of the trust but verify made me think about. I don't know if you ever knew the website, Snopes.com. S-N-O-P-E-S. So before all of this other magical stuff, you know, when the rumor mill would happen, you'd go to Snopes and you'd be like, is this true? And he'd be like, No, that's not actually true. Da-da-da-da-da. But there you have to have that little oomph inside of you, that intellectual curiosity to be like, Hey, this is interesting, but let me just go check. Before I forward this to my whole network and embarrass myself, let me go verify it. And it's just even more important now. It used to be that we could see a video, for example, and that would be good enough. Okay, I've I've seen the video now, now I know it's true. Well, now we're we're not even sure that it's true, which is challenging. speaker-0: Yes. Yeah, that absolutely. and it seems like ⁓ this, you know, ⁓ somewhat gray area when it comes to what is true, ⁓ is being in some ways pulled at every lever of our society, even at you know, in the highest forms of government in our country, right? Yeah. Trying to discern what's actually real and what's going on is ⁓ becoming a lot more difficult. speaker-1: Alternative facts. There's a lot of alternative facts out there. speaker-0: Yes. Yeah, right. Goodness. ⁓ But you know, we're we're here about building things up right now, right? speaker-1: That's right. So so wonderful, wonderful segue because you've told me about the town halls and the workshops and all the wonderful things you have, and then the conversations in the coffee house. So what happens with you and your two co-founders w between when you all are meeting and talking in the coffee shop and how you started building building this thing where you've got these town halls and these cohorts and all these wonderful things happening? What were some of the early steps you took? To form your five ⁓ one C three, what were some of the considerations in the early days? speaker-0: Yeah. So ⁓ the first thing was just determining what we wanted to focus on. ⁓ we didn't want to, you know, approach this as this like one stop shop that would be ⁓ you know, this service for everyone, right? Because we're we were a small team and we didn't want to stretch ourselves too thin. ⁓ so one, it was just determining what is it that we want to focus on. At the time when we initially ⁓ launched our program, it was just getting people together, right? Building a community, ⁓ and making tangible ⁓ plans ⁓ and strategies to do that. ⁓ now again, we started around the pandemic, so it was really difficult to get people in person. ⁓ but we would host ⁓ virtual discussions, ⁓ virtual weekend workshops is what we we call them, where ⁓ We would jump on a Zoom call, share the link within our network, and just code out, right? Build things together, talk. ⁓ in some ways try to simulate that experience that we had in the coffee shop. ⁓ where hey, we're all together on this, you know, one call. Let's, you know, have these ⁓ discussions and share what we're building. ⁓ but again, we noticed that a lot of people were. You know, just trying to either transition to it and it became something where it wasn't as much ⁓ building together, but more teaching to build ⁓ and build going about that way. ⁓ the other thing that we focused on early on was the legal aspect. so did a little bit of snooping around. ⁓ there's a program in Philadelphia called Philly VIP. ⁓ they are a ⁓ program of lawyers, ⁓ and other legal ⁓ geniuses, right? ⁓ that help nonprofits and other businesses ⁓ get their five ⁓ one C three, ⁓ get their EIN numbers and pretty much from start to finish help you establish your nonprofit. So that was a really big ⁓ that was a really big help for us starting off because that could be a really, really confusing, very tedious process. ⁓ so that was something that really came in. handy for us. ⁓ once we had that, you know some type of documentation legitimizing us, ⁓ it it just became a lot easier, but also a lot more work ⁓ to just maintain a certain type of culture. I think that was the third thing. ⁓ and culture is very hard to to develop, ⁓ especially when you are a young business and, you know, Your sense of culture ⁓ or work culture is, you know, the your it's a it's a hodgepodge of everyone's opinions and feelings. You wanna, you know, be mindful, but also make sure that things are getting done. So that was the next thing. So I would say, ⁓ understanding what we wanted to do, ⁓ and being very, very specific about it, ⁓ just so that we don't overextend ourselves and burn out. to finding ⁓ the legal assistance for us to ⁓ set our foundation ⁓ and legitimize us. And then I would say the third thing starting off was ⁓ the culture, like trying to establish what is going to be our culture, how are we going to conduct our work. speaker-1: So my lawyer's heart is singing to hear you say that that was such an important for the listeners out there, I promise you I didn't feed Ian that, but so many people treat that as the thing they'll get to later. And so good for you all for figuring that out early on. speaker-0: Yeah, if if you can speak to a lawyer as soon as and I don't know if this is like a shameless plug for you, Aisha, but but ⁓ you know, obviously you have, you know, I'm speaking to a lawyer now and y the listeners out there, wealth of wisdom, not just with this conversation, but ⁓ the conversation that Aisha facilitates, ⁓ you know, provide some legal perspective on it. Don't know if you're able to, you know, provide consultation like in this kind of general manner. But yeah, it it was super helpful. And the earlier you can do that, the better. either you're gonna and again, the program that we worked with, ⁓ they did this pro bono. There's that we didn't have to pay anything, ⁓ which was really great for a nonprofit ⁓ or business in general. ⁓ if you're not gonna do it on the front end, you are gonna pay for it in the back end. ⁓ the speaker-1: Hundred percent. speaker-0: If if you're able to get some legal consultation as early as possible, the sooner the better. speaker-1: And the amount that you pay later is so much greater than what you'll pay on the front end. And I think Ian, you mentioned something real important as a nonprofit that folks may be surprised to hear that a lot of big giant law firms, they do have pro bono programs for nonprofits. It's one of those areas that allows their junior associates to cut their teeth in terms of getting hands-on experience becoming an attorney. But also providing a s a public service. So for those of you out there, particularly in the nonprofit space, you should look into that. I still Google on occasion, but you could also claw it up or chat GPT it up to say, like, hey, which large law firms? I'm a you know, I'm a nonprofit person, you know, which law firms in my area provide pro bono assistance for formation and guidance because a lot of firms do provide that. As a service. The other important thing you mentioned, which is so wonderful to hear that you all thought about this early on, is culture. I just so happened to have done a presentation, ⁓ facilitated a leadership training today. And I always use this quote from one of my old bosses who stole it from someone else. But it says, Essentially, your culture is the worst behavior you're willing to tolerate. And so We always come up with these lofty goals. If you pick any random website, this is who we are as a company. We believe in the following values. And ⁓ and at the end of the day, that's all BS. Your culture is really like when you let the guy or gal who kills it for you but acts like an a-hole, you allow that behavior. That's your culture. So give that to you all for free. That's actually your real culture. It's not the platitudes on your website. If there's a a marriage between the website platitudes and how you all really conduct business, fantastic. But I just say keep that in mind. So I understand though that in terms of when you all really got traction, that someone kind of discovered you and did a LinkedIn share out or something. Can you tell me about that? speaker-0: ⁓ that's I I don't know if I can. someone gave us some LinkedIn shout out. Well, what I can say is that ⁓ we have had a lot of ⁓ support ⁓ on social medias, particularly from LinkedIn. we're just putting our story out there, ⁓ showcasing some of the things that we've done with Philadelphia schools and in different ⁓ community settings. ⁓ and just in those settings, talking with people ⁓ where hey, they took they took notice of us, they want to follow up and shout us out, ⁓ has definitely ⁓ provided a lot of opportunities for us. the reason why I had to I I was stuck for a moment was because ⁓ we've had a lot of those moments. Okay. And I'm sure it ⁓ one of the moments very early on ⁓ when we were developing the educational component, ⁓ it may it may have come through LinkedIn. ⁓ yeah, we've had we've been fortunate to have a lot of moments where ⁓ we've been approached ⁓ for our services and ⁓ you know, we've been more than happy to oblige and you know, kind of build those relationships. speaker-1: So you talked earlier about the importance of networking and then you say now there've been multiple occasions where you've gotten what they call inbound leads, people coming to you. What's been your most successful strategy in terms of attracting attention and then perhaps donors to help, you know, fund and power your programs? speaker-0: Yeah, so the biggest thing I think that's helped us ⁓ is one, our story. So being very conscious of what it is that we're setting out to do, ⁓ being very intentional, but also ⁓ we want to meet people where they are. ⁓ when it comes to our educational service in particular, ⁓ when it comes to reaching out to the community, ⁓ one thing in tech is that And you know, I think a lot of industries are like this. ⁓ we have our own language. And language can is, you know, ⁓ another manifestation of culture, right? and sometimes when you're so embedded in a specific industry culture, you don't always ⁓ keep in mind that not everyone speaks the way you speak. Not everyone understands the things that you understand. and so for us, we like to keep things in plain English. ⁓ we're technical people, but we we w will break things down using sports analogies, ⁓ food, right? ⁓ to drive home the concept that we're trying to teach. ⁓ and I think that's endearing for a lot of people. And ⁓ especially where in those settings, ⁓ a big again, a big part of us is us going out ⁓ and making those connections with people. ⁓ again, to that point about the inbound, contexts. A lot of those contexts are in some ways initiated through the in-person events where ⁓ we met someone and they happen to tell someone else about what we do. And then that person reached out to us. So there's like this three degrees of connection going on. ⁓ so yeah, I would say that ⁓ that's been a big part of it is the story and narrative, ⁓ being authentic and being actually in these places. ⁓ they're especially early for us. We didn't always capture our moments, but we were able to make conversations with people, right? ⁓ where they remembered us. We shared with them our contact and they, you know, reached back out. So being outside, being in the field is ⁓ and and telling your story is the is one of the things. ⁓ I know the you know everything business nowadays conducted online, but ⁓ a lot of it is very much still if you really want to progress, you s you have to go out and and make connections with people. speaker-1: I think that that's a phenomenal point and it's it's becoming a theme in my own business and a theme that I talk about in this show. There used to be this movie, not used to be, it still exists, called Things We Lost in the Fire. And I think the thing that we lost and I think of the fire being COVID, you know, there were so many people who were able to start businesses and and do things remotely, but we did lose that connectivity. And I I think that there's alm I don't want to be over over dramatic, but almost like an aching. that people have in this age of AI to still connect as humans. And so that being outside thing is so important, especially if you're trying to build a business. And then as you say, the storytelling component so that it sticks. You need something to be to be sticky. So even with excuse me, the name of my law firm, for example, shameless plug, but it's a neat story because they're like Cedric Andrews, what who who who are those guys? And I'm like, it's not guys. Cedric Housing Projects, where I learned to play basketball in the Bronx and Andrews Avenue. It's it represents the intersection of the two places that made me. And I haven't told a person yet, told a stor that story yet where people go, That's really good. And it sticks. So whatever it is that you're doing when you're outside is like, what are the stories about your business for people that makes it sticky, sticky for them, you know, as you go along? I am curious because whenever I hear of like a tech startup, most of the times it's like people who want to make it big so that they can package it, series A, series B, raise, sell it, become billionaires. So what what is in your mind and that of your co-founders that said, Hey, we wanna act in public service to folks in terms of this business that we're building? speaker-0: Yeah, so ⁓ I wish my my ambitions were as lofty as being a billionaire. ⁓ I do wanna ⁓ look, I wanna say I don't wanna do well. Right. But ⁓ yeah, in terms of for us, ⁓ it was always community. ⁓ especially right now, ⁓ with the within the past several weeks, you know, facilitating these ⁓ civic town halls. ⁓ I think right now a lot of people Are a bit ⁓ uncertain ⁓ when it comes to, you know, the ⁓ narrative around AI and AI job displacement ⁓ and everything, ⁓ that you know, that's a whole topic in and on itself. ⁓ and also just having a vision for the future, ⁓ where for us how we see it is it's always community. ⁓ if we can make it so that people have the knowledge and the ⁓ skills to thrive. That can be that that raises the, you know, it's one of the things I'm I'm a bit rambling, but ⁓ a rising tide raises all the ships. And that's we want to establish that foundation where, hey, we can make better systems, right? ⁓ where people are still very much involved in these systems, right? The technology is just the tools. ⁓ if we can provide people with the skills to use the tools, ⁓ we believe that that will have beneficial and and expansive outcomes for everyone else. and also for us, right? ⁓ we want to naturally develop opportunities to grow and scale the program, right? The more people we can help and serve, the the bigger and better we can make our program. ⁓ and so for us that's kind of where it starts. ⁓ having a vision and a belief that we can build something better, ⁓ having the intention and a a strategy to try to raise the floor and ⁓ reach out to our communities here in the city, ⁓ and making it scalable, making it tangible so that our program as we continue to explore these new opportunities and provide these resources, ⁓ it kind of comes back t and and helps us build this program to be even better. speaker-1: I love that. ⁓ so I want to circle back a little bit because you, you know, you speak so passionately about tech and accessibility and community, but you actually didn't start in tech. So tell us what were some of the stops you made before getting into tech and then what made you pivot? speaker-0: Yeah, so I've I've lived many lives. I was ⁓ I s went to school to study political science. with emphasis on international relations. So I I guess I always had some element of civic duty, right? ⁓ I also tried engineering, like mechanical engineering. It was a lot of science and a lot of math and it just I was ⁓ I got out of school. I did ⁓ I was a insurance salesperson at one point, licensed s ⁓ insurance agent. ⁓ I was a freelance illustrator at a certain point. And I think that was what really started, you know, kinda gave me a little bit of a ⁓ a little bit of a some experience with the entrepreneurial lifestyle, ⁓ drafting and and getting ⁓ guidance on how to make a contract, how to Chase people down for money when they don't pay you. so yeah, that that gave me a little bit of ⁓ experience there. ⁓ and then especially, you know, in my 20s, just various odd jobs, you know, like anyone else, worked in factories, worked two jobs at the same time, went to school. ⁓ and then around 2017, I decided, okay, ⁓ I want to transition into graphic design. And I Was fortunate to have a mentor ⁓ through a program here in the city. and you know, we we didn't have many conversations, but it the conversations that we did have definitely steered me in the direction that I'm, you know, currently on, where ⁓ the big thing ⁓ was to learn some coding skills. ⁓ this was around the time where, you know, being a graphic designer required you to have some, you know. basic coding skills. ⁓ so I was like, okay, ⁓ I'll I'll look into that and do that. And ⁓ you know, I found that I really enjoy just building things. ⁓ so a little bit of like the engineer, a little bit of the artist, a little bit of the I guess, ⁓ bleeding heart, passionate community person in me. ⁓ kind of really found a lot of enjoyment in just Building things, testing things, breaking things and figuring out why did it break and then rebuilding it again. ⁓ so yeah, that's that's a little bit of background. ⁓ I went to a boot camp to learn the program. ⁓ I I took maybe like six months to like prep myself and bought all the coding books. ⁓ went to a boot camp for about eight months and then hit the ground running. Like I said, I already had some experience ⁓ freelancing. And so it was little bit not as daunting to, you know, just kind of go out there, talk to people, ⁓ see what I can do. had, you know, start networking, had some people where ⁓ they gave me some opportunities to ⁓ manage their ⁓ customer relations ⁓ management systems. ⁓ I had another friend or a friend who was ⁓ who was developing a beauty supply shop, each or e-commerce shop. was able to assist there and just you know, just connecting with people, talking with people and trying to find those opportunities to, you know, continue to build and leverage my skills. So yeah, it did a lot that did a lot of things. speaker-1: A lot of things. So was there was there a moment when you decided like, okay, I'm doing this coding for real? Like I really like what this what I'm doing and this is the way. speaker-0: Yeah. So I think once I really started to immerse myself in the local ⁓ tech community here in in Philadelphia, ⁓ you know, I was pretty confident that this is what I wanted to do. ⁓ I made a lot of friends and a lot of connections and ⁓ things were going pretty well. So and ⁓ yeah, I didn't want to go back to selling ⁓ insurance. Not that there's anything wrong with that. ⁓ certainly didn't want to go back to you know, working, ⁓ you know, how I was. ⁓ 'cause, you know, those experiences definitely shaped, you know, how I look at things and how I, you know, how I approach things in my work ethic. So, ⁓ yeah, once maybe a year in, had some some good mentorship and some some contract work, ⁓ and you know, finally ended my first job, that's when I knew I was like, Yeah, this is this is what I'm gonna do. speaker-1: Awesome. When you think about some of the kind of systems in place that you all may have had, what have you found to be kind of the most important systems maybe that you've had in place from an operational perspective to date in the business? speaker-0: I think having a good sales pipeline is a very, very important piece. ⁓ it is it's almost the important piece. ⁓ where for us ⁓ we you know approach different ⁓ community ⁓ facilities, so community centers, ⁓ centers for aging, ⁓ obviously schools, ⁓ and having, you know, some type of ⁓ framework to do. build a dialogue ⁓ with these stakeholders is really important. ⁓ it's something that took time ⁓ for sure, where ⁓ you know, no two entities, even if they're in the same, you know, field. So no two schools are alike, ⁓ no two neighborhoods, ⁓ community centers are alike. So understanding how to ⁓ you know, speak and approach them, build a rapport and a dialogue with them ⁓ is really important. And having like ⁓ some type of framework to, you know, approach that that was one of the big things that ⁓ really, really was mo monumental for our program overall. speaker-1: I love because it's something you mentioned earlier, but the idea that you're also going to the centers for the aging so that there's this multi-generational, there are these multi-generational touch points with folks, not just focusing on the kids, but as you alluded to earlier, getting that community of people who may want to feel connected with their loved ones, despite whatever distance there may be or whatever, like ev including them is it just sounds really special to me. One thing I wanted to ask you before we we wind down is I understand there was a p a time where you were still holding down a full time gig and then trying to stand this up. Can you talk about what that experience was like for you? speaker-0: ⁓ yeah. So I had worked ⁓ for ⁓ another it was a fintech company, ⁓ nonprofit company, and ⁓ it was at a unique place where we had just wrapped up like our pilot for our ⁓ educational cohorts and you know, were presented with our, you know, first full contract. ⁓ and that was a really, really big moment because I was still working and my colleagues were still working. ⁓ and we wanted to, you know, start bringing in people, interviewing people to help us facilitate these cobars. ⁓ and yeah, one thing I would say, ⁓ you know, to this, ⁓ to this point is, you know, interviewing and finding the right people is certainly a investment of time, but one that is absolutely worth it. ⁓ I I think that a lot of times, ⁓ when it comes to building what and regardless of what stage your business is, ⁓ you wanna, you know, help people and perhaps they're, you know, a loved one, a family member or a friend, and that's all great. But if they aren't capable or suited to do the tasks that you present to them, ⁓ that's you're gonna pay for it in the end, right? They're not gonna be ones left carrying in the bag or the consequences you are. and so that was something where, you know, ⁓ finding the right people to to bring in to help facilitate it was a challenge. And it no that's not so much an indictment on those p individuals ⁓ who would come in and help facilitate those courses. it's more of a just one of those misalignments, right? You don't know what you don't know. and for them, They saw an opportunity, you presented it to them. ⁓ and again, to the point of the culture, if you don't have a well-established culture of, you know, hey, this is how we approach things, this is how we do these things, and this is, you know, how we hold people accountable to doing different things. And, you know, ⁓ it can be very ⁓ it might not end very well, right? ⁓ and but in fairness, there was that was never established, right? If that standard wasn't established. You know, they're they can do what they like. Well, not what they like, but you know what mean. ⁓ so at that time it was really difficult because ⁓ you know, I was kinda going to this the school and going to work and tr trying to balance I don't know if my job ever caught on. But ⁓ yeah, I was trying to balance the two at the same time and it was it was a bit taxing. But it was definitely a lesson learnt in terms of, you know, establishing good culture, ⁓ and you know, finding interviewing and I guess gauging candidates to help build your program, right? Because again, regardless of where you are in your ⁓ your business journey, at some point you're gonna have to scale. Even the best entrepreneurs, you know, you You could probably do a lot of things on your own up to a certain point. ⁓ at which point you're gonna need help. and you know, that was one of those lessons where I'm I appreciate that I had it earlier, ⁓ because now, you know, I know how to maybe engage ⁓ you know, people who work with us, people who may volunteer or people who may bring in and contract for different things. I know how to maybe approach see where their expertise lies. ⁓ and for me, I'm you know, I Believe in people. ⁓ I think if you're passionate and if you have a willingness to ⁓ learn, ⁓ w and you know, you carry yourself a a degree of integrity, ⁓ you know, there's nothing that you can't accomplish, right? Everyone's no one's gonna get things right all the time. Everyone's gonna make mistakes. It's about how you respond to those things and you know, come back from it and improve from it. ⁓ and that's part of the culture that We have at Black Tech Philly. We, you know, especially early on, we understood that we're not going to get things right all the time. ⁓ there are going to be things where there were opportunities that dang, we should have taken that ⁓ opportunity, or we should have followed that person. Or shoot, this this person led us down this road and then they just abandoned us, right? And you know, you got to take the good and the bad. ⁓ but that's but it's about continuing. It's about persevering and pushing on, ⁓ and learning from those experiences because they help inform your next decisions and, you know, your next move. So speaker-1: So speaking of you know informing decisions, tell me about the decision to select the name Black Tech Philly because that's very specific and sounds very intentional. speaker-0: Yes. So the the name we the name was like one of the funny enough, like one of the hardest things starting off. ⁓ you know, for to be transparent. ⁓ there was a lot of like when we when we s shared the name with, you know, different folks, ⁓ you know, people raised concerns about, you know, I don't know if that's going to be the most attractive name to maybe get, you know, different types of support. court and so on and so forth. and that was, you know, that was something that we were aware of. ⁓ but we were confident in it. ⁓ part of our story and our messaging is that we are inclusive. We don't, you know, ⁓ the the name is obviously intentional. ⁓ part of was because black engineers, black technologists make up a very, very small ⁓ demographic within the tech industry. ⁓ and, you know, this isn't ⁓ exclusive to tech. ⁓ one of the goals for us is to is to try to make tech more inclusive because as we can see there's a lot of technology and not a lot of new novel technology ⁓ that's being developed and rushed out. And there aren't a lot of people with diverse backgrounds and experiences informing a lot of decisions that are being made with this technology. ⁓ so we want it to be, you know, disruptive in that. ⁓ And so, you know, the name Black Tech Philly, I think it kinda embodies like all three things, right? We're, you know, a group of African American ⁓ men who founded a program ⁓ that's aimed to be inclusive and welcome to anyone. We don't care what you look like, how old you are, what your background is. we're focused on technology and education and we're from Philly. So there you go. And also It's it's very searchable. It's easy to find. ⁓ I think that's also one of the things that's helped us where, okay, where are some, you know, black tech programs in Philly? Here we are. So yep. speaker-1: And and you know, the I think for folks listening, that is just a calculation that you have to do. There's all kinds of talk about do I niche down, do I stay broad? Will I lose people if I choose a particular name? But sometimes that choice is in fact intentional. And it may you may not want to think about it as that it's repelling people, but it's attracting ⁓ folks that you want to actually work with with great intentionality. So To not run from some of those choices. Okay, Ian. I ask all my guests the following question. When you hear the phrase do small business like a big boss, what does that mean to you? speaker-0: When I hear do small business like a big boss, I get confidence. I get ⁓ someone who is a pioneer who's gonna be outgoing and ⁓ who just ex exudes a certain level of bravado and but more so confidence, right? ⁓ Yeah, that's what I get. I think that a big part of really scaling and and pursuing this entrepreneurial lifestyle and and building something big is that you have to think big. You have and you you need to be bold in that. ⁓ you're gonna take losses, right? ⁓ but that's okay, right? You're you have you're gonna rebound and go, you know, ten times harder. So that's kind of w what I see. It's someone who's has a certain level of ⁓ self-assuredness, right? But isn't, you know, prideful or arrogant, right? Someone who, you know, isn't so much, you know, not To say that they don't have any concerns or fears, but they're willing to, you know, override that because they have a certain level of confidence and faith ⁓ in what they're doing. ⁓ so that's what I hear when I s and I hear like, you know, small biz like a big boss is just confidence. And this is what, you know, again, you're gonna have things that are gonna challenge you mentally, physically, emotionally, ⁓ and you just have to. have that type of faith that you know nothing is permanent, right? The earth is not in the same place it was two minutes ago, right? So everything continues to move and things change. even if things aren't going well right now, if you're actively pursuing it, it's not going to be the same two weeks from now, three weeks from now, right? ⁓ so that's kind of what I hear. speaker-1: I love it. I love it. I'll I'll allow it. All right. And where can the people find you and plug into Black Tech Philly? speaker-0: Yes. So we have a website, ⁓ blacktechphilly.org. ⁓ kind of goes over our story. ⁓ we are going to be releasing a newsletter very soon, ⁓ towards the end of the month. ⁓ we'll be so that's like another two weeks or so. We're gonna have a newsletter ⁓ that's essentially going to be a wrap up ⁓ of our tech town halls, some of our future events that we have coming up, ⁓ as well as LinkedIn, ⁓ Black Tech Philly. speaker-1: All right. All right. Ian, thank you so much for lending your time and your talents to the show today. Appreciate it very much. speaker-0: Thank you very much, Aisha, for the opportunity. This is this is great. speaker-1: Awesome. All right, bosses. That's all we have for today. If you enjoyed this conversation, please remember to like, rate, and subscribe. It really helps the pod grow and it benefits other bosses like yourself. And as always, remember, build the dream messy, build the dream scared, just don't build it small. We'll see you next time.