Latest / I Am All In with Scott Patterson / I Am All In…Again “That’s Not You Sarah Wayne Callies?” (Season 1 E10 “Forgiveness and Stuff”)

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I Am All In…Again “That’s Not You Sarah Wayne Callies?” (Season 1 E10 “Forgiveness and Stuff”) · I Am All In with Scott Patterson

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I am all in again. Oh, let's just do I
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Am all in again with Scott Patterson and iHeartRadio Podcast.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: Hey everybody, Scott Patterson, I Am all in Podcast, one
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: of them productions. iHeartRadio, iHeart Media, iHeart podcasts. We are
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: doing a one on one interview with a recap of
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: season one, episode ten with none other than Sarah Wayne
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Colli's is this is this the cret CREC? Did I
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: get it?
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: Nailed it? Nailed it.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: I nailed it so happy I didn't even practice. Sarah
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: is and you all know her. She's known for starring
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: as Sarah Tankredi on on Fox's Prison Break, Grimes on
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: AMC's The Walking Dead. You may have heard of these shows,
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: and more recently, as Bertie Nicoletti in ABC's The Company
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: You Keep. She's the creator and voice behind sci fi
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: podcast Aftershock and co host with prison Breaking with Paul Adelstein,
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: a rewatch podcast for prison Break. With season two of
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: prison Breaking on the way, Sarah continues to connect with
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: audiences to orse work both on and off the screen.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: She has appeared as an extra in this episode of
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: Gilmore Girls. Believe It or Not. We had the privilege
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: of working with her it's an extra and in a
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: very first what was not what's not true?
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: I've never been on Gilmour Girls.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: You're not an extra in no, no, this is not you.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: It since the very first hospital scene you can be
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: seen crossing cross the scene.
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: I've I've never done background work unless like I was
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: shooting something else on the same lot. But no, as
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: far as I.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: Know, is that right.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: I mean, you're welcome to show me the scene, but like,
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: I've literally never done background work.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: There's a you know, people, I even have it on
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: my resume. I don't know how it got there that
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: I did stunt work on a couple of things, and
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: I never did any stunt work.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: You know, I had for It took me like five
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: years to get off of my IMDb pro.
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: It said that I had been in an underwear model.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: For a long time because my first job was opposite
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: Travis Fimmel, who was the Calvin Klein underwear model.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: Oh was he?
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: And I think people just but it was like it
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: was like forget. I would get auditions and I was like, Okay,
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: so I think I know what you were expecting. I've
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: got like a degree in women's studies. I'm like I
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: never really took my clothes off it and people take
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: pictures of me. But hey, no judgment to be boo did.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: It's hard to get those things off of your right
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: off of your resume. By the way, I bet you
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: would have been a terrific stump man. You would have
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: killed it.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: I'm sure you know. I'm I really feel like I'm
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: doing that every day anyway.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: So sorry to not have been in Gilmore Girls in
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: Killore Girls.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: This is not you. I have two pictures of you.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: Wait, wait, show me the pictures.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: There is a resemblance, is there. Maybe it's not from
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: Gilmore Girls. Maybe I don't know. I don't know you
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: well enough to know your profile with your hair pinned back,
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: but it kind of looks.
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: Like you, I mean, honestly, Well.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: Let's get to the bottom of this.
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: Well, because this was it was a WB show, right, Yeah,
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: wasn't it?
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Here it is. Can you see it? Is that
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: not you?
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: That's not me?
• 3:43
  Speaker 4: Okay, it's definitely not me, but I can see why
• 3:50
  Speaker 4: somebody might think it was m That is wild.
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: Wait, well who okay, sorry, listen.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: We really want you to be an extra Gilmore gross
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: and the next iteration will you do you please come
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: on and be an extra I am.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: I am promising you right now that if you do
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: another see another show of Gilmore Girls, I will cross
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: as a doctor in the background of any scene where
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: it's not appropriate.
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: That would be great. At least we would be telling
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: a complete lie here. I'm so sorry, We're sorry, we're show.
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: Off the whole premise of this thing.
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: I think you're going to be eligible for some wonderful
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: prizes as a result of our faux pas here.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: Or possibly residuals. Do you know what, No, let's advise
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: the story that is me and I would be grateful
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: for whatever residual rate.
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: Background performers probably don't get it.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: Prepare yourself to get a check that says one penny. Yeah,
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: and we've all we've all gotten those.
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: Do you remember that that bar called Residuals on Ventura
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: in Studio City where if you brought in a residual
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: check for under a dollar, they would give you a
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: free beer.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: Oh, I heard, I heard about this place. I've never been.
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: I've never been.
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: I went a couple of times with friends who you
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: know you you do, like get your fifth residual check
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: for like the one episode you did of numbers back
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: in you know, is.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: It still there? I don't know, because I could. I
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: could roll in with a lot of checks.
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: Man, I honestly, I have not been in like ten years.
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: So sometimes you get the big ones something most of
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: them are medium size, and then you get the tiny ones. Yeah. Yeah,
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: it's it's a lot like life.
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah it is that all right?
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: So you weren't so all of these questions are No,
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: they're irrelevant. Now I can't ask you what it was like.
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: You want to make it up? Yeah, pretend like you
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: were an extra, and.
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: I will say, Okay, So here's where here's where I
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: can hopefully come in with something that feels a little
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: bit like a save. I have so many ties who
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: I'm one degree of separation from, like half the cast
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: of Gilmore Girls. I just directed Jared Padlechi okay and
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: Fire Country. Paul Adelstein that I do the Prison Break
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: Rewatch podcast with was married to Lisa, who Liza Sorry,
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: who played Paris. I played myle event Emilia's sister. You
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: know what I mean? Like, right, Yeah, hit me with
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: the questions and I'll answer them.
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: You were an extra on Gilmore Girls? What was it like?
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: For you, Sarah. You know, I have to say everybody
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: was so nice. I didn't.
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: I was never treated like an extra.
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: I was. I was. Really it felt like I was
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: just treated like one of the family.
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: No, that's how we do it, man, that's how we
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: roll over there.
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: Did you shoot on the Warner Brothers lot?
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you were there. I was. I was.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: I was. I was on the Warner Brothers lot. It
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: was entirely possible that I was walking to ADR.
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: And that's snapped a picture and you were walking to
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: ADR in a nurse nurse's uniform.
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: Well, I did play a doctor on prison Break, so
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: it's possible that. And we did our post on We
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: actually did our post on the Warner Brothers lot, so
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: it's possible that I just kept on the stethoscope and
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: the white coat all the way from where we filmed
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: in Chicago.
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: All right, Since you were never an extra ever in
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: your entire career, how long had you been in the
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: entertainment industry when you stepped on set as an extra?
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: When I stepped on set as an.
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: Extra, how long you've been in it? Yeah?
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: Well this, let's see, this is the second season of
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: your show, so this would have been what two thousand.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: First season?
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: First season? So what's that?
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: Oh, it's two thousand, it's two thousand, two thousand. Well,
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: by episode ten it was probably got oh we started shooting.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: Maybe it would have been earlier one.
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe it would have been earlier one.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, so I was I got on a plane from.
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: Grad school in Denver, flew out to Los Angeles.
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: Who do it? So it would have been officially my
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: first professional television appearance.
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: When you got the call that you never got, yes,
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: you were going to be an extro on Gilmore Girls,
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: How excited were you?
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: Thrilled beyond belief. I literally couldn't believe it was happening.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: Because it didn't happen. It was hard to believe that
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: it did.
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: But it was welfare. But it also, I mean, I
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: gotta say, like, in all seriousness, it was a show
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: that almost every woman I know was talking about because
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: it was a show where women sounded like women, right.
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: And in two thousand and one, there were not a
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: lot of women writing for women. There were not a
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: lot of women's showrunners who, if they wrote for women,
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: wouldn't get rewritten by male showrunners. There were not a
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: lot of shows that routinely passed the Bechdel test. It was,
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: and it wasn't until years later that I started to identify,
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: like I even know what a showrunner was in two
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: thousand and one, right, I've never done anything with theater,
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: but it once I did the math and the tracking
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: and went Amy Sherman, Palladino is doing something that really
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: hadn't been done very much, if at all, which was
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: right women, the way we talk for women, and an
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: honor a very non traditional set of female relationships, which
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: is like, this is the woman who got pregnant super
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: young at a time where we were just coming out
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: of the era of like only terrible girls get pregnant
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: in high school, you know what I mean? And like,
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: here's a whole show basing like it was a kind
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: of feminist revolution, which was a really exciting thing.
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: To see and to hear about. So when I got
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: the call to be an extra.
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: I'm shrilled to be a part of the revolution.
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: It's what I'm saying, right, right, right, Oh.
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: Scott, I'm so sorry. I did not know that the
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: whole premise of this interview was based on me having
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: been in your show. I'm so sorry.
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: But you were on the show you were. Did you
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: learn anything from your Gilmour from the Gilmore set that
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: you still use today.
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: Yes, I learned that you have to talk very quickly
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: certain kinds of shows that there was a because the
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: same way, like okay, in two thousand and one, I
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: was really in grad school the same way we were
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: learning the difference between Shakespeare, Shaw and Moliere. There is
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: a difference between Amy's writing and Shanda's writing, which is
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: don't think, talk and all of your thinking happens on
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: the line, and these sort of more attenuated moody like
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: you get a forty two page script and that's an
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: entire episode, as opposed to you get a sixty page
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: script and that shoots in forty two minutes, which is
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: a totally different way of performing. So yeah, I learned
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: a lot from that.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: It was like Shakespeare, you just had to learn the lines, yeah,
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: and then open your mouth, the words pour out, the
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: meaning reveals itself. Yeah, that's what it was. That's right,
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: that's what it was like.
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: And was that a new way of working for you?
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: No, because I've done Shakespeare before and I know it's
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: really just about and it was similar because it had
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: the same kind of emotional logic, so it was very
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: easy to remember.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: Oh cool.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because when I first tackled Shakespeare, you know, you're
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: always intimidated. But it's like, wait a minute, this is
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: far easier than I realized it was going to be.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: And then after a couple of days you're like, wow,
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: I've got almost half of this down now, So it's
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: odd how quickly it comes. And this is the same.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: This is the same. And when you trust the writer
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: so much, you trust the writing so much, yeah, you
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: don't have to think about how it could be better
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: or what you know, or there's awkward yeah, minds are
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: awkward sentences. There was never any of that. It was
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: just like, okay, let's get this down, say as fast
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: as you can the rest of you know, it'll move
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: you where it needs to take you, both physically and emotionally.
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: Because good writing is easy to learn. Yeah, Like I
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: find now having done this for a while, if I
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: read a script four or five times and I can't
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: learn the lines, I'm still going to learn them and
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: do my job. But in the back of my head,
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I think there's something happening in this scene
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: that like, either my character is being asked to say
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: or do something that doesn't quite a line or that
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: you know, like it's yeah, but good writing, good writing,
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: you learn really quickly.
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's rue.
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: What was it like like you'd worked in television before? Obviously?
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: Did it feel like.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: A totally different experience as you were, because you know
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: episode ten by then, you're probably what like about airing?
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: Like you start, you've got the first nine in the can.
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: The show is about to come out or it's just
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: come out. The world is starting to react and go,
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: oh shit, this is something really new.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: We knew we had something just because the trade papers
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: were lauding it right, very glowing reviews in the Hollywood
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: Reporter and Variety. So we knew we were onto something.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: We knew it. We all knew it. Anyway, when we
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: first read the pilot to prepare for our auditions, Okay,
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: I didn't think I would have a chance. I thought
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: this is not going to happen, and this is too
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: good because film actors were crossing over into TV at
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: that point, you know, they just started doing that. And
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: I said, well, they're going to get a bunch of names,
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: and hey, I'll go in and enjoy myself and much
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: to my surprise. I really have never been so shocked
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: in my life. Yeah. I mean I thought I did
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: a good job, but I was, you know, I was
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: nailing auditions all over the place and not getting the offer.
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: And you're always coming in second or third place or
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: whatever it is. And that's good. Yeah, you know, that's
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: you can build a you build your career and your
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: reputation that way. That's all good stuff. Yeah, for sure,
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: were you aware of the show in two thousand when
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: it came out, you absolutely you saw it and you
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: react and.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: No, I mean, that's that's what I'm saying. Like that
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: every woman I know was having this conversation about like
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: they're doing something over there because there again they're just there.
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: Hadn't been that much.
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: That felt it felt like it was by women about
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: women for women, and that there'd been a few, but
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: they all kind of felt like one offs to me
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: and gilmore girls came along and it started to feel
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: like this is the sharp end of a spear. There's
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: gonna be more of this because getting over that like
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: black death thing.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: Oh right, it's going around.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: Everybody's got it's like proto pneumonia.
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: But for like, even in the beginning of my career.
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: Being a leading lady very often meant your job is
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: to make sure that the arc of the leading man
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: makes sense. So he's got to get from here to here,
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: and they're gonna plug you into scenes to make sure
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: that he gets there. There may or may not be
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: an internal logic to your character. You may be asked
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: to do some things that do or do not fully
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: track for you. Your job is to figure out how
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: to get them to track, to create whatever internal logic
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: you need to so that his journey is complete. Gilmore Girls,
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: being a leading lady meant the show it was your
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: arc that made sense, and two concurrent female arcs were
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: playing out that had their own fully articulated logic. And
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: again it wasn't the first time it happened, But I
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: think it also came an interesting point in kind of
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: you know, our social, political, cultural vibes. You know, the
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: early two thousands, we were at the the beginning of
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: women taking a certain kind of creative and cultural power
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: in a sustainable way, and this show was very much
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: a part of that, which is it's a wild legacy.
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we witnessed that too. With Yeah, I will admit
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: there was a little bit of a tension between Amy
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: and the studio. And I don't think she was really
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: I think she was listening to ideas, but I think
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: her entire being was about this is my show, this
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: is my voice. No, I will not implement this storyline.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: No I will not get them together faster. No. And
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: she she, you know, she voraciously defended her show well,
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: and it was quite something to watch.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: She must have. I imagined she had to because it
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: was it was so new that the the impulse would be, well,
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: if we make it a little bit more like Friends,
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: or a little bit more like the West Wing, or
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: I mean like Warner Brothers back then had this insane
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: catalog of wildly successful television. Yes, and I can only
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: imagine that, you know, you put a lot of money
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: into TV, that there are a lot of folks in
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: the check writing offices going if you just kind of
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: do this and sometimes mean, you know, not for nothing.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: Frank Derbat was the same way with Walking Dead, like
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: he was he was there to.
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: Make his show and it's hard to do.
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: Like Amy, he was right, you know, he was right.
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: And then but then, of course, the tricky thing for
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: the people in the check writing offices. Has got to
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: be that sometimes people I'm sure are just as ferocious.
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: In defense of their vision and they're wrong.
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: I'm sure there are showrunners who you know, we've never
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: heard of because they stamped their feet and said, I'm
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: not going to make any changes, and the audience was like, yeah,
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: we don't like this very much.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: You know, I almost see her and Dan as indie
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: rock stars who don't care about commercial success per se.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: I think they just always want they wrote their songs.
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: This is how we're not changing them. This is who
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: we are. We have to stay true to who we are,
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: and if you don't like it too bad, then don't
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: come to our shows. And they that's they dug in.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: But I never really saw that side of them. You know,
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: you don't see an unpleasant side of them. It was
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: always sort of a carnival. When they would show up
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: on Saturday they were directing an episode. It was always
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: just such an enhanced experience. Not that anybody else was
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: was was terrible or boring. I mean, they had great directors,
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: but I mean when Amy was on set directing an episode,
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: it was a fun eight days. Yeah, I mean it
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: was just filled with stories and laughter. She just brought
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: this energy. She brings this sort she's like a nuclear
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: reactor of comedy. Yeah, she's very she's she's like a
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: volcano of joy, you know what I mean. It's just
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: a it's it's just all of this positive, high volume
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: laughter and stories and yeah, just great, just great stuff.
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: Really miss her, Yeah.
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: Well, And I mean what's interesting is to see the
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: way that she's sort of iterated her work since you know,
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: like she's got this ferociously creative, creative impulse. And I
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: what I love about it is that she articulates female
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: power in ways that are not male power, right, Like
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: I have a pet peeve, And anybody who's ever seen
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: me interviewed about anything, we'll probably know this when somebody
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: decides to write a strong woman and she's just a
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: man and a woman's body, right, meaning like, and I'll
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: be honest, it happened on Walking Dead. Sometimes someone would
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: be like, oh, to fucking kick your ass, and I
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: was like, you won't though, like you won't. And you know,
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: for anybody who's ever been in a fight, like if
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: you get punched in the face by somebody who's forty
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: pounds heavier than you, you go down and it's over,
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: and so that kind of false, like machismo just seemed
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: so it just seemed like a lie to me, because
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: you're like, well, now the guy you're acting opposite has
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: to act scared of you, and quite frankly, that's dumb,
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: and that puts him in a weird position.
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: And that ruins his character, and it.
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: Ruins his character. It makes the whole scene look like
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: a lie. Whereas when female power is humor, is cunning,
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: is intelligence, is shame, is manipulation, is empowerment, is inclusion,
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: is community. When we articulate female power the way women
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: experience power, then all of a sudden, it feels really true.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: And that's the word that I would use. Actually, when
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: I saw the show is it felt true, not like documentary,
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: do you know what I mean. I'm not like, oh,
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: I live in a town just like this and we
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: talked just like this, but it the way female power
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: was articulated, felt true and felt much more. And I
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: saw it on the West Wing too, actually, you know
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: what I mean, like another big Warner Brothers show at
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: the time, Like, yes, this is the way women are powerful,
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: and it was great. It was great to see. And
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: she's still doing it Amy, you know, I mean with
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: what she did with MASL, Like there is an extraordinary
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: articulation of female power there in ways that are familiar
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: to women but often really I think underrepresented or were
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: underrepresented in TV.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: Right. You know, in the beginning, I didn't understand this,
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: and then I gained understanding as we went along that
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: this was a show rooted in female power.
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: That, and that I was in a situation where I
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: was sort of just helping tell these stories, you know
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: what I'm saying, Okay, Yeah, And it was it, It
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: was It was a strange adjustment for me, but but
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: I was used to that. I was. I was always
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: from a man's point of view, and it like like
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: I'm an alpha dude and all that stuff always have been.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: So it was odd being in this environment that I
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: thoroughly enjoyed all of the time and felt it felt
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: really right walking into that room meeting Amy and Gavin
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: Polone and the director and casting it just you know,
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: you walk into a room and it's like, oh, this
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: is this is right, and because because you walk in
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: rooms and it doesn't feel right, and there's all kinds
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: of reasons for that have that have nothing to do
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: with you. But but but this felt like, oh, there,
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: we're connecting very quickly here and this is this this
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: could be nice. But yeah, it was an adjustment for me.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: It didn't take long, but it was an adjustment. It
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: was it was It was not an entirely new experience
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: because I'd worked with all, you know, a lot of
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: the top women in TV, Julia, Louis Dreyfus, Deborah Messing,
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: Sharon Lawrence, and it was perfectly comfortable just serving them,
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: you know, and and being being that supporting actor guy, right, Yeah,
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: and this was this Sometimes this was a little confusing
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: because you know, as I was telling my wife earlier,
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: you know, Amy and Dan put me in situations that
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: all of the that that sort of mimicked all of
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: these great movie moments from the forties and the fifties
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: and you know, the golden era of filmmaking. And Luke
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: was in those situations and having to to realize all
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: that and and act through that, and it was just
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: the greatest gift of my career was doing that role.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: And you know, you wonder why people see you as
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: that character wherever you go, and they get confused when
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: you try to play another character. They don't get it.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: It's like, what are you doing? It's like, can't you
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: just put the hat on and be that guy? But
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: a very special experience to be in the belly of
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: the beast for so long and continually after twenty five
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: years at this groundbreaking show where women did take over
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: and stake their claim, and like, this is far more interesting, nuanced,
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: intelligent storytelling than you have seen before and here and
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: this is what it looks like, like wake up, you know.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: And intergenerationally, I mean, I've noticed when I did Council
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: of Dad's, which was an NBC show in twenty twenty,
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: I'd been in the business for ninety seventeen years, and
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: it was the first time I'd ever had a mother
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: on screen, and it was the first time I ever
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: had a female showrunner. And I was like, oh, that's
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: an interesting Like you know, I'd played I'd played leading
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: ladies more often than not, and nobody ever gave my
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: character a mother, which.
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: Is the central, most complex.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: And foundational relationship in a woman's life. And all of
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: a sudden, I didn't even notice until I read it,
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: and I was like, oh my god, I have a mom.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, it's because Joan Raider is writing this now.
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: But to go back to Luke, this is something that
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: I noticed, especially actually in the episode that we're talking about, right,
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: because there's so much Laura lies in such a precarious position.
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: And one of the things that I think is really
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: cool about watching the dynamic between Laura I and Luke
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: is that you're actually, in some ways modeling like what
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: does it look like to be an alpha dude who's
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: still supporting an alpha lady? Like and I actually kind
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: of hate those terms, because the whole concept of alpha male,
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: I think has been super stump. I just read something
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: yesterday about how like an alpha wolf is actually the
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: wolf who's responsibility it is to like feed the community.
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: Like it's much more anyway, But when you were kind
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: of like there was a level of like, as I
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: was watching it, I found it really moving because I
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: was like, Oh, this is what it looks like for
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: a strong man to show up for a strong woman
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: without diminishing either himself or her right. And that's it's
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: hard to write and it's hard to play, especially in
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: two thousand and one when there's not a ton of
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: that in heterosexual relationships out there. You know, what I mean,
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: like there's will and grace and like two thumbs up.
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: But that's a very kind of that's in a different paradigm.
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: And so I kind of love that while.
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: While there was all this work being done in sort
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: of female identities, in a lot of ways, the work
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: that you were doing model the kind of masculinity that
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: wasn't I didn't see a lot of it in TV.
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I just think that's kind of I
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: think we need a lot of that even now, you
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: know what I mean.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: When I read the pilot, I thought there's only really
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: one anchor here. It needs another one because everything's so
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: light and airy and fun and fluffy if you will, yeah, yeah.
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: And Emily provided that, but I didn't know how much
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: she was going to be represented in the show. And
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: I thought, Okay, this is Luke's job too. Mmm, I've
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: got to I've got to be an anchor. That's it.
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: It's just he's got to be a rock and that's all.
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: That's my job. I tried to understand my job, you know,
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: before I went in, and I said, Okay, I need
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: to communicate. It's not so much about the reading. I
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: know I can do the reading but it's like it's
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: got to be in my body. Yeah, and if I
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: don't communicate that, I'm not going to get the offer.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: I won't have a chance.
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: So how did you put it in your body?
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: Like what were the choices that you were making as
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: an actor to throw away?
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: Throw away, relax, relax, relax, underplay, underplay. But it's an attitude.
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: So I just you know, I went in you know,
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: where I'm from. There's a swagger, there's an attitude, you know,
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: and I just put that on where are you from?
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: I'm from. I was born in Philadelphia but raised in
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: South Jersey. So it's a it's it's a real it's
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: a different type of play. It's I don't know, they
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: kind of call it. There's always a simmering kind of
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: very working class, very unexpressed, not anger so much, but
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: there's an intensity to the people that I grew up around,
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: and they, you know, they call Philadelphia the fighting City
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: for a reason. It's like everybody, everybody's like a hair
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: trigger away from like yeah, okay, let's go, you know,
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: very fast to fight physically, I'm talking. So that's what
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: I grew up with. So that's always simmering and I
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: thought that that's you know that to me is Northeast,
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: that's the East coast, that's the northeastern part of the country,
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: and especially this character. So it kind of.
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: Worked especially I think, and I haven't spent really any
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: time in Philly, like a weekend here and there. I
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: went to school in New Hampshire, and there's this especially
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: in rural communities and in smaller communities, because everybody knew
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: how to do everything, you know what I mean. It's like,
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: even if you're a professor, you're cleaning your gutters and
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: you're patching your roof, and you're fixing the wood stove
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: and you're chopping, like there's a sense of everybody being
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: able to handle themselves, you know, not full Winter's bone,
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: but like there's a there's a touch of like of
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: like I'm really not afraid to get my hands dirty,
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: if that's what it takes. It's funny when you were
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: talking about South South Jersey and some of this I had,
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: I was getting images of Bruce Springsteen in my head.
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: I don't know if that feels it all accurate, but
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: just that like super laid back, like yeah, man, whatever,
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: it might be a rock star.
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: Well, he's a beach guy. You know, that's it. They're different,
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: you know, Okay, he's Asbury Park and he's like, you know,
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: that's that's on the coast.
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: This nuance is totally lost. I grew up in Hawaii,
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: so this you say. Also, when you say beach guy,
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: I'm like.
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: No, shitty serves like.
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: How he was played music. But yeah, he grew up
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: near the ocean. Those ocean city people, and they're different
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: from from from everybody else.
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: Those ocean city people. That fascinating. I just like touched
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: into some like cool New England identity world.
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: But it was but it was a great dynamic because
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: you know, Lauren would come in with all of this
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: glory and power and intelligence and uh, it was a
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: lot of bright lights going off all at the same time,
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: and there was no way to match that. I mean,
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: there's just like, forget it right, you know, you gotta
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: go the other way. Yeah, you got to balance it,
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: you gotta letter shine right. Basically my job was just
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: to stay out of her way, you know.
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: But also I don't know, I totally hear that, but
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: it feels like you're under selling it.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: Well, she was driving most of the scenes, sure, but
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: she was coming, so it's like she's at the wheel d.
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: Percent, Yeah, hundred percent. But like, but it had there
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: has to be contrast in order for it to mean anything, right, Like,
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: I'm always I heard something really interesting in an acting
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: class a bazillion years ago in grad school, and it
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: always stuck with me that you can't take status, you
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: can only give it. And so the queen is not
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: the woman who sits. The queen is the woman who
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: sits while everyone else stands. And one of the things
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: that I see the more I like, I've been mostly
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: directing the last sort of eight years, and what's interesting
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: is when somebody refuses to give up status in a
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: scene where they need to give it up, the scene
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: doesn't work. And what I love is that Luke immediately
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: gives up the status, which gives her the status, which
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: allows those lights to go off, but also then creates
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: an identity for him as someone who doesn't need status.
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: And all of a sudden, you're really curious because it's like, wait, wait,
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: what makes you so secure? How come you're so relaxed
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: about the fact that this woman's going to show up
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: and dazzle and use her cell phone even though there says,
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: no cell phones and all this shit like it creates.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: It creates a really interesting dynamic. And it's almost a
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: little bit of an uptown girl right.
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: A thing right, which is like absolutely, it's it's him
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: feeling like he's not worthy. It's him feeling like that.
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: You know, he melts in her presence because he just man,
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: he loves.
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: Her, but also he knows she needs him, right. And
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: I don't mean needs as in like I want, he
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: needs a man, but like people up there, they need
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: the grounding, you know, like and I don't know if
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: Amy and Dan were that way. I never saw them,
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: but I know so many creative couples my showrunners.
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: You know what, Yeah, they are kind of like that.
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: He is kind of like that.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: Tony and Joan Rader are like that.
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's kind of grounding. He's grounding and calls yeah.
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: All of this energy all like she will tell a
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: story and the entire crew is like right, and then
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: there's Tony just kind of sitting there going there she is.
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: But they are a brilliant like yes, she writes, he directs,
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: she creates, he and it's like it's you have to
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: have that. And so actually I wonder how much you
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: guys were based on Amy and Dan. I've never had
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: that thought before, but like, if there's that sparkle and
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: the grounding, I wonder if there was a little bit
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: of and they never talked about that auto a.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: No, now, I always thought they were Paris and Doyle,
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: oh part of it. But you're right, it could be
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: like they eject themselves in all of these relationships I see.
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: I see a lot of Richard and Emily in them too, Okay,
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: I think there are a lot a lot of people
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: going on inside both.
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: Of them, you know, there must be for them to
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: create them all.
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah.
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: So you've never seen the show before, is that right?
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: Well?
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: I have now, I have now, Yeah.
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but you're watching this for the first time.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: Second time now, first time where we're on our second
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: go round, you're your second go round. Yeah, we've been
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: doing this for three and a half years, almost four
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: years almost Oh wow, yeah wow, yeah, but no, i'd
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: never seen I'd seen the pilot. Obviously. I saw Winter
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: from the Netflix episodes because we went to the premiere
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: and we were forced to watch it. Yeah, but that's it.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: And I've seen little clips here and there, other shows,
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: but I've never I never got into the library of
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: the show, and yeah, I didn't, and it was shocking
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: to me when I first sat down and went through
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: the first season. Absolutely shocking to me.
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: Well, because we're on our prison Break podcast, we're we're
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: on season two right now, and I saw most of
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: season one when it aired because I was just trying
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: to learn how to backed on camera. But a lot
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: of season two is new, and I never I wasn't
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: in season three and then came back for season four.
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: And one of the things that we're noticing, you know,
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: your show was a little bit older than ours, well
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: a lot, I guess, like seven years older, but no,
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: only five. But I am finally able to see myself
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: as a totally different person.
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: Part of why I didn't watch back then was I
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: was like, I don't.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: Need to no, no, thank you, it's all self critical
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: monster inside now, no way. But it's like, looking back,
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: My eldest right now is seventeen and closer to the
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: age I was when I did that than I am
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: to her, and it's kind of cool. I mean, do
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: you enjoy it at all?
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: Like, are you able to look back and go look
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: at it?
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: Guy? He did.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like a completely different person. Yeah, it's I
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: don't recognize him and and uh yeah, it's it's it's
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: it's it's kind of fun, you know. Yeah, it's fun
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: to watch because I just I don't remember virtually all
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: of it. I don't remember really, I don't remember doing
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: the scenes.
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: That's wild. And you guys were on the lot the
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: whole time.
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we had a parking has parking space that's special
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: with our names on it. Yeah, no one else could
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: park there. Yep, that's valuable real estate.
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: Man, that's well, and it's a different feeling. Most of
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: my career was on location, Like Christ and Break and
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: Walking Dead were all on location, right, And I just
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: did a show. The last thing I ever did on
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: the acting side was on the Paramount lot, and man,
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: like driving through the gates of an LA studio, it's
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: good and belonging there, and like I was already twenty
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: some years into the business and I was like, oh,
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: I finally feel like I belong Like it was a wild.
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: Now on the other end of the opposite of that coin,
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: imagine having seven years of that and then going off
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: onto location all the times on all these indie projects.
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: And things. It's like, whoa, it's quite an adjustment.
• 40:29
  Speaker 3: It must be, it must be. Now, I say, here's
• 40:33
  Speaker 3: the thing.
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: What I love about being on location is a cast
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: usually has to get quite close because you don't know
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: anyone else, you know, I mean we part of Walking
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: Dead Magic was season one, no one knew anyone in Georgia,
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: not just Atlanta, like the entire state. And there were
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: only two people who were local Hires and the rest
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: of it in the regular cast and everybody else, like
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: you know, we were all young. A couple of us
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: had brand new kids or whatever. Like you you get
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: really close, So I think there's value in that. But yeah,
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: you know, waking up in your own damn bed and
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: driving to your own parking space and there's a glamour
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: to that. That's pretty cool.
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, six miles away from Warrenbush. I get there in
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: fifteen minutes.
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, did you bike? No?
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: You know Michael Rooker's are friends?
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: Is he?
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah? I love him?
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: Speaking of not remembering, Michael showed up to the table
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: read of I think it was episode two of the
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: first season, walking Down and did his work and he
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: was brilliant because he always is. And I walked up
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: to him and I was like, Michael, hey, it's Sarah
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: and he goes hi and I was like we from
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: from Whisper and he goes honey, and I was like
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: we were in a movie together a couple of years ago.
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: Were we? I lost a lot of years? How was I?
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: And I was like, I don't even talk about it.
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: It's nice to see you again. Laid me. Please give
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: him my love the next time you talk to you.
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: I think I'm gonna I do a lot of conventions
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: and so he's on this. We have the same agent,
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: So I see him sometimes nice and we get to
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: go to dinner and have too much sake and laugh
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: until we're like we burst a blood vessel in our eye.
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: That's a nice thing about conventions, is you get to
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: have with your friends. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. In fact, I
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: think the last time I saw worker was at a
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: convention and he just become a grandfather and I was like,
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: that was not on my Michael Ricker Bingo card. Right, Yeah,
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: he's such a good guy.
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he so is.
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: How do you guys know each other?
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: Did you work together just from the convention circuit?
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: Oh?
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: No way.
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: He wasn't an extro and girl girls is what.
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: You're saying he was, but he doesn't remember.
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, maybe that's what happened to me. No, he
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: maybe it is me.
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: He was never an extra in anything. Let me tell you. Yeah, uh,
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: not that guy.
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: I mean.
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: The whole story of how he started his career is
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: one of the most fascinating stories I've ever heard.
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: Oh, I've never heard it. I'll have to ask you.
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: That you've got Let him tell you. Let him tell
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: you this story. Get him to tell you the story
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: of how he got eight men out. Okay, please, you
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: have to hear this.
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: Okay, I can't wait.
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: Go to dinner, have a couple of drinks, and then
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: and then wind him up and get them going. Man,
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: it'll be just like it's glorious. The story is glorious.
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: He is amazing.
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: He is amazing, absolutely amazing human.
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: He's also in a couple of wild stories. There was
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: a Frank Dermunt had a party at a house in
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: Malibu for I think the beginning of the second season
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: or something. And we were all there and then there's
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: a knock on the door and I opened the door
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: and it's Michael Rooker wearing only a pair of overalls.
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: At a ball cap only no shoes, no shirt, I
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: didn't check, but probably no underwear. Also no wallet, and.
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: We're like, where the fuck did you come from?
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: Like he just materialized. There was no uber at that point,
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: like did he take a tap? But he didn't. There
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: was nothing in his hands. He had no money, and
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: we're like, Michael Rooker can materialize anywhere in the universe.
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: We're like, he's a superhero. Clearly, that is the only
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: explanation for this. And at the end of the night
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: he was like somebody, uh, somebody get me home. We're like, yeah, man, we.
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: Should, we got you.
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: Oh god.
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: The first time I met him, I think we're in
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: Connecticut at Mohegan's son, Okay, and they've got a great
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: you know, you stay in the hotel there, right, you're
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: right there in the in the and the and the
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: space is you know, you walk to it from it's
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: inside that complex and they have this fantastic sushi restaurant
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: right off the lobby. So we all congregated down there,
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: and you know, you don't know how you're gonna vibe
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: with somebody or whatever, but you know, usually it's it
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: goes pretty well. But with him, oh man, I hooked
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: into his world and we were just riffing back and
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: forth until we were on the floor. I mean, he's
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: like a long lost brother or something from another planet.
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: Well, I love that.
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: It's just wild.
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: That means you're nuts. You understand that. Well, that's okay, nuts.
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: So to bring it back to your podcast, if Michael
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: Rooker were to play a character on Gilmour Girls, Yeah,
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: who would he play?
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: He would be Kirk's father.
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: I don't think I know the show that well.
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: Okay, he'd be my father. Now he'd be Kirk's father. Okay,
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: he would be Kirk's father. Or who would be Kirk's uncle,
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: like Uncle Michael or something. Kirk is the guy who
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: had you know, he's the guy who has a million
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: different jobs. He's always inventing a job for himself, okay,
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: not succeeding. Yeah.
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: He's a serious comic relief, the terrific physical comedian and
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: just a great comedic actor.
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: I love the idea of Michael Rooker in Gilmore Girls.
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: There's something so extraordinarily incongruous about that that, oh my god,
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: it's also possible that that's the day that Gilmore Girls
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: turns into like the craziest horror story you've ever seen.
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: It's like that.
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: It'd be the like Friday the Thirteenth meets Gilmore, Girl's
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: episode or something Henry Portrait of a serial Killer comes
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: to town.
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: Oh my god. Oh, I'll never forget the first time
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: I saw that movie.
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: I've never seen it. Actually, I saw the trailer and
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: I was like, I can't I can't thing. Yeah i've heard.
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: I mean, i've heard he's brilliant, but it's too I
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: can't watch. Or I couldn't watch. I couldn't watch Longington.
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: It was too scary, it.
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: Was too real. He made it too real. It was
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: just like whoa. Yeah, anyway, let's talk about the episode
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: a little bit totally.
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we've got we've got seven minutes before I have.
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: The recap episode it. But what what did you think
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: about the episode? You watch the episode, what did you
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: think about? What do you think? I mean, it's a
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: it's a you know, Richard ends up in the hospital. Uh,
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: you know, it's it's it's one of the rare episodes
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: in the entire series where we're dealing with death or
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: the potential of it.
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: That's really interesting.
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it really we really never have to deal with
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: anything this heavy. Usually that's that's sort of the charm
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: of the show. It's like, yeah, but it doesn't deal
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: with the you know, weapons or car chases or deaths
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: or anything like that.
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: In front of my right.
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: That's all I do, ay bad And I've done plenty
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: of that too, and I love it so But we
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: see this bond, this this back and forth between Luca Lorelei. Yeah,
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: what do you think of all that? And the crowning
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: of with the with the blue hat that was a
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: significant moment for guilds. What do you think of all that?
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: I mean, you know, as I said earlier, I think
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: it's a really.
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: Beautiful primer in like, how do you stand up for
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: somebody the way they need you? Two.
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: A lot of times in the hospital, I think.
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: People are at a loss for how to be how
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: to be there for someone who's hurting or who's scared,
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: and often there's nothing you can really do except be there.
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: And I think I think Luke does that really beautifully. Also,
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: I think he has a brilliant intuitive sense that like,
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: you stay out of the dynamics between mothers and daughters,
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: you give that space. I thought, I don't know her name,
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: but the actress who played lorealised mom.
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: Kelly Bishop.
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: I thought she did a marvelous job, like there was
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: something about her work that was super understated and grounded
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: and real. But I don't know, I mean, at least
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: for me. By the end of the episode, I'm sort
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: of screaming at the television like, if you need a
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: man in your life, this is the one, you know.
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: Interesting that they dragged it out for four seasons until
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: Mark No, very very smart, Absolutely the way to go,
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: there's no question. Yeah, but to drop that episode in
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: in the middle of the first season, yeah, like, here's
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: this is what it could be. This is maybe what
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: it should be, but we're not giving it to you
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: for a while.
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: Well, and also maybe it's important that this woman not
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: be paired up for a while, right, you know. I
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: also think that there was and I wonder if this
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: is one of those kind of pushback moments that Amy
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: was working with. When it comes to studio and network notes,
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: I think there's often a drive to get couples paired
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: up early. And I remember on prison Break they wanted
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: us kissing by like episode six or seven or something,
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: and it actually came from us Wentworth and I were like, no,
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: we're not going to do it, because the longer you
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: draw it out, the more interesting saying it becomes, the
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: more it means, and kind of once you get together,
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: there's not as many places to go right when you
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: read it. Did you read it and go, oh, okay, we're
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: getting together in the next episode, or like, what was
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: your sense of it when you well you said you
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: don't remember any of this.
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: No, but I remember those I remember thinking and hoping
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: because I knew that the struggle she was, she was
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: at odds the way you just described. Yeah, I think
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: there was some pressure brought to bear to get those
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: two together sooner.
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: Hmmm. Did you get a lot of it from fans
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: at the time, Like if you'd see fans in the
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: middle of season two, would they be like, just get
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: together already or were they along for the ride to wait?
• 51:52
  Speaker 3: Both okay, okay, fair enough?
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: Oh, both properly split?
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but no, I mean but both at the same time.
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: People feeling that both those ways Okay, they love it
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: and they hate it. I think a given what they want,
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: they go away. I think you're right, you can't do it.
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: If you have something that powerful, Yeah, use it. Just
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: use it, just milk it as long as you can.
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: I think they could have they could have gone another
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: season before they got together, and in true style, a
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: naked Kirk I was running through the middle of it. So,
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: Sarah Wayne Collie's thank you for your time and your insights,
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: and let's do this again.
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: Let's do this again, or we should have you on
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: our podcast. Come on prison Breaking with Sarah and Paul.
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: You can talk about prison Break and we'll talk about
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: your cameo as a prison guard exactly which clearly happened.
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: Actually be very believable. Yeah, it doesn't take much of
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: an imagination. Again, awesome, right, thank you, Sarah, Thank you.
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: You have a good one.
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: All right, take care, Cheers everybody, and don't forget Follow
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: us on Instagram at I Am all In podcast and
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: email us at Gilmore at iHeartRadio dot com.