Latest / She’s Smart / Min Santandrea - Founder of Sant M shoes

Transcript

Min Santandrea - Founder of Sant M shoes · She’s Smart

0:00
Okay, I'm so excited you're here. I have to settle down because I'm so happy to see you.
0:04
I just want to jump in. Okay. Like, let's just start. Let's do it.
0:08
So you were born in Korea.
0:10
Yes, I was. And how old were you when you came over to the States?
0:14
I was 10 years old. So you remember growing up there? Yes, very clearly.
0:19
Tell me about it. Tell me about growing up in Korea until you were 10. And I'm glad I did.
0:23
Korea was very different when I was growing up there. Obviously,
0:26
they haven't been industrialized yet.
0:28
They were just starting. I remember one Christmas, my mom got me a pair of shoes.
0:35
And in Korea, you get one gift.
0:37
Not like here. It's one gift. And they leave it above your head, right?
0:41
It's not on a Christmas tree, underneath a Christmas tree.
0:45
Wait, why do they leave it above your head? Because Koreans don't really have a Christmas tree.
0:49
Well, back then, Christmas tree wasn't a thing. Was there a meaning for it?
0:54
No, it was just modernizing.
0:58
So westernizing, I should say.
0:59
And we weren't religious. So my mom changes her religion every decade.
1:04
I love her. She's growing and learning all the time.
1:07
I think she might have been Buddhist back then.
1:11
But anyway, and I got these awesome, not retro, new Nikes.
1:17
Red one with the white swish. Because Korea was just manufacturing Nikes.
1:22
And I was like, what is this? This is the ugliest type of shoes I have seen.
1:28
And then my mom's like yeah i mean people are just saying it's it's
1:31
like the thing and so i was like i wore it and
1:34
when i came to america it was like the biggest thing ever
1:37
it was so yeah it was that what's you know the forest gum one the very simple
1:42
nakey retro yeah everyone's wearing so it was i mean it was great because i
1:46
got to sort of experience that and i still remember it clearly I remember tasting
1:51
this thing called pizza in Korea when I was about nine.
1:55
And it was only made on the U.S. Army restaurant base.
2:02
Yeah, Army-based restaurant. So you had to go to the Army base to get a piece of pizza.
2:06
But you had to have clearance. So you have to be invited.
2:10
So we'll beg my mom, ask uncle or a friend who could go there and get pizza.
2:16
Because there wasn't American fast food in Korea. So I remember tasting my first
2:22
burger on the base, French fries. And what did your parents do?
2:26
My dad was an architect, and my mom was a stay-at-home mom. Okay, an architect.
2:31
Did he do that when you moved to the States, too? He did a little bit.
2:35
It was very, very difficult for him because of the language barrier and also licensing.
2:41
So we did a lot of renovation, more in the Korean community, things like that.
2:46
I want to hear these stories all the time of people who are from other countries,
2:52
and they have these degrees. They're doctors.
2:54
They're architects. They're doctors. They're engineers, and it doesn't translate
2:58
when they move to the United States.
3:00
So they're starting over entirely or having to pivot into something similar
3:05
to what they do, like recertify and all of that when you move here. Yeah.
3:09
Especially then. I don't know when you moved. What was that?
3:12
In like the early 80s? Yeah, 80s. Yeah.
3:15
So probably not easy at all back then. Yeah.
3:18
Probably easier now. Or at least the, do you feel like if you were to move now
3:22
and had this kind of job, there would be an easier path to do it?
3:27
Or do you think it'd still be difficult?
3:29
I think it'll be easier path. Also, even though they teach English in Korea
3:33
starting high school, it's more, it's everywhere, right? It's omnipresent.
3:39
There's the internet, there's movies, there's pop songs. Whereas when my parents
3:43
grew up in Korea, it was actually during the separation, like North and South Korea.
3:49
And so all those things weren't available for them.
3:52
So learning a new language when you're in your 40s is very difficult, even for me.
3:58
But also because Korean is so different than English.
4:02
So until this day, my mom's English is very, very poor. But,
4:06
you know, she gets around.
4:07
Yeah. I'm so curious what religious she is now, if she's even practicing. Yes, she's Catholic.
4:13
Love it. From Buddhist to Catholic. Well, she was atheist in between and a Protestant.
4:20
I want to have her come on and chat with me about everything she's learned about religion.
4:25
She's probably the most well-rounded human being when it comes to that.
4:28
Because she's open-minded.
4:30
Tried everything. She's not against it all.
4:33
She has a purpose and a belief, the system that works for them.
4:37
She has karaoke jam with her priest and fellow churchgoers.
4:42
I love her so much. I want to join the karaoke jam, please.
4:46
Okay. So you moved to the United States when you're 10. Do you speak any English at that point?
4:50
No, I didn't. So you're just being Korean. Oh, wait. Okay.
4:53
And hold on. Wait. I want to go back to when your parents, the separation of North and South Korea.
4:59
How did they end up in the area they were? Like what took them?
5:04
North or South? Like, how did that, well, how was that deterrent?
5:07
They're originally from South, but it was, I mean, from what I hear and what
5:11
I read from history books, it was literally on a random day,
5:16
not a random, but they didn't really announce it. It was like, this is it.
5:20
So people were stuck. If you fled to North, thinking that North was safer,
5:25
like, so there's so many families that have been separated, parents,
5:29
siblings, till this day.
5:31
And obviously, they try to find each other. There are programs,
5:34
but it's on and off because of the political instability with North and South Korea.
5:39
Because you literally cannot cross over. No. You cannot leave.
5:43
Nope. Wow.
5:46
There's very little communication between them.
5:50
Oh, I just got the chills. That's crazy. So they end up in South Korea.
5:54
So they're able to move to the United States. My uncle was sponsored.
6:00
So I guess in the 70s, there was a program in the United States where they invited
6:04
a lot of scholars or people who are in higher education. So my uncle was invited
6:11
to finish his PhD at University of Houston.
6:14
So he had his family there. He settled and he invited us.
6:18
So we actually moved to Houston for two years and then moved to New York when
6:23
I was 12 because my parents, that was also during the recession,
6:28
oil recession, and there was no prosperity.
6:32
So we decided to move to New York at that point. And where did you land in New York?
6:37
Forest Hills, baby. Home of USTA.
6:42
Is it really? Yeah, because I play tennis and still first, the stadium,
6:46
Forest Hill Stadium is where they hosted first USTA, US Open,
6:50
it's grass courts, until they moved it to Flushing Meadow. Oh,
6:54
and that's where Arthur Ashe Stadium is, right?
6:56
Okay. All right. Okay. So you grew up outside of New York.
6:59
Outside of New York. And then you-
7:01
go to high school, and you go to Wesleyan for college. Yes.
7:05
What made you choose Wesleyan? Because I know your daughter is looking at colleges
7:10
now because we had this conversation.
7:12
Yes. Min has two children, Pepina, who's a junior.
7:16
Yes. And then Lorenzo, who is in seventh grade, and he happens to be besties,
7:22
brothers from another mother with my Easton. Yes. And they're hysterical together.
7:27
These seventh grade boys just love each other so very much. I know.
7:30
I love them. And I know Pepina is looking at liberal arts colleges as well.
7:33
So she's, you know, the apple hasn't fallen far from the tree on that one.
7:37
I hope. I don't know. We'll see. We'll see. So tell me about Wesleyan.
7:41
Okay. So it was an accident.
7:44
Asian immigrant, science focused, science, science, science. I did Westinghouse.
7:50
I actually science Olympiad, high school, you know, AP, AP, chem,
7:56
physics, Cal. I did my internship out in UT Austin to get ready for my Westinghouse research paper.
8:04
Back then, MIT had much less female population, so it was easier for women to get into MIT.
8:12
I met all the stats, so I knew I was going to get into MIT.
8:17
And so I only applied to MIT.
8:20
I didn't look at any other schools. I knew I was going to get in there.
8:25
I was so confident. And back then, I don't know if you remember,
8:28
folder application, you had to either- You mailed it in.
8:31
Yeah. Well, you had to call the school or when the school came to visit,
8:36
you have to put your name down and they mail you the application. Yeah.
8:40
And then you have to mail it back. You have to fill it out all by hand. Yes.
8:43
There was nothing, hey, for our younger listeners, there's none of this internet
8:46
going on in the late 90s, mid 90s.
8:53
Early 90s. Early 90s. There was none of that. because I graduated high school in 93.
8:58
You know, my parents weren't very involved. I'm the youngest of three.
9:01
So, you know, they were kind of tired by the time they got to me.
9:05
I didn't really pay attention. So I was like, I'm going to go to MIT.
9:09
This is a school. Apply. I go down to our mail room.
9:12
I get a piece of letter and it's very thin.
9:17
And, you know, how you could tell back then is that if you got a big envelope,
9:22
it means you got in. If you get just a little envelope, it means you got rejected.
9:27
However, I was so delusional, I opened it up and got a rejection letter.
9:34
And I was like, huh, they made a mistake. Because my name is Min Lee,
9:38
which is a very common name, right?
9:40
It's like Jane Smith in Korea, like in Asian culture.
9:44
There are thousands of Minleys. Okay.
9:47
Like, oh, they almost made a mistake. This is a different Min Lee from Forest Hills. Yes.
9:52
I'm like, let me call them and let them know. So I actually called them long distance.
10:00
Mind you, those young listeners, you had to pay a lot of money.
10:03
Like you had to get permission from your parents to call long distance because it was super expensive.
10:08
Remember, it was like a dollar a minute or something. I forget what the thing was.
10:13
Called the admissions and it was like, hi, this is Min. I received this letter.
10:18
I understand you made a mistake. Please re-look at it.
10:22
And they're like, no, no, it's you. your sister's screen number and your birthday
10:26
and everything matches.
10:27
I'm like, are you sure about this? And they're like, yes.
10:31
And I'm like, M-I-T-M-I-N. I belong there.
10:36
I was like, it's born for this. We share almost the same name.
10:41
Devastated. And I was like, I'm not going to college. It's over because by this
10:45
time it was like December, January, everything was out.
10:49
Did your parents know this was happening at this point? No, not really.
10:52
I didn't tell them. And so I'm like, I am not going to college.
10:56
I'm like, this is it. I'm dead. I'm like, my life is over. I was so like, caught off guard.
11:01
And one of my best friends, she's amazing, from since we were best friends since
11:05
sixth grade, got into Harvard.
11:09
She was a little more prepared than me got into harvard and she had she's like
11:15
i went to the school i visited i think you will like it here's the application
11:21
why don't you fill it out and then she gave me her other applications that she
11:25
had so scramble scramble scramble,
11:29
And then handwritten, handwritten, write the essay, handwritten,
11:33
or typed it up, rushed it, applied to all these different schools last minute.
11:38
I did pretty okay based on that.
11:41
Oh, I also applied early to MIT to increase my chance.
11:46
Never visited Wesleyan, never heard of it because they're not science,
11:50
right? So I'm like, I didn't look at it. I looked at Carnegie Mellon.
11:54
I was like, I'll go to Carnegie Mellon, Cornell, like all the science schools.
11:57
And so I actually got a pretty good scholarship there. That's awesome.
12:01
And so I was like, okay, I'll get it. I mean, it was like the best out of all the cards.
12:07
I'm like, oh, I guess I'll go there. I could transfer.
12:10
So I went, chemistry major. And I took an AP art history class in high school and loved it.
12:17
But didn't realize that there was a career.
12:21
It was sort of like, it's fun, but I don't know what to do with it.
12:25
But then I took... American Art History at West's first semester and fell in love with it.
12:33
And so literally after two weeks of school, I'm like, I'm declaring myself art history major.
12:39
And also I couldn't see myself wearing white coat being in a lab.
12:44
It was really what you had to wear. Yeah, I was just like, come on.
12:48
White coat every day. So boring. Yeah. My time is not pretty.
12:52
I tend to put all my eggs in one basket too.
12:57
Again, I never learned from my own lesson. So when I did art history,
13:00
I took almost every single art history class that was available that I could
13:04
fit into my schedule because a Wesleyan doesn't really require,
13:08
doesn't have prerequisite.
13:10
Oh, it doesn't. Yeah, it's one of those, you know, schools where you could take.
13:14
You just get all the credits or the amount of the number of classes in. Exactly.
13:19
Okay. So I got internship at the Whitney, at the Guggenheim.
13:23
I was full on art history. I worked at the Guggenheim Museum and the Whitney
13:29
Museum after I graduated.
13:30
What did you do there? At the Guggenheim, I did development membership.
13:34
So working with high-end members, creating events, programs for them.
13:40
So going to Artist Studio.
13:43
We were just opening Bilbao then. So creating Bilbao trips for the trustees, things like that.
13:50
So did you get to travel quite a bit too? No, I was too junior.
13:56
I was the bottom of the totem pole, so I didn't get to travel,
13:59
but got exposed to a lot of things and how sort of museum worked behind the
14:03
scenes. So cool. So it was great.
14:06
One of the best things to work at a museum is actually roaming around the museum when it's closed.
14:11
Oh, and then you get to experience all the art without anyone there, no crowds.
14:16
Just like your own collection. Yeah, pretty much. Gosh, that'd be very cool.
14:20
It's the best thing. I used to do that when I lived in Italy.
14:23
I used to go to the Uffizi in France every, almost every day.
14:27
Because you're a student, so you had like pass or whatever. You could go every single day.
14:32
And after school, after classes, I would go straight there and just sit in that
14:37
museum. It was my favorite place.
14:40
It's beautiful. Oh, I missed it. I can't wait to go back at some point.
14:43
But I never did a lot of museum touring when we lived in New York,
14:48
though, which is unfortunate.
14:49
I did some of it. One of my best friends did a lot at the Guggenheim,
14:54
like the junior board kind of thing. And then we had First Fridays.
14:58
Yeah, that was at the Guggenheim too, right? Young Collectors Club.
15:01
That's right. I was part of creating that.
15:05
How fun. We would do the First Fridays and I talk about it now.
15:10
And unless you lived in New York, no one really understands what First Fridays are.
15:13
But at the Guggenheim, the first Fridays of each month, they would have like
15:17
this young collector's club.
15:18
And it was a young people who lived in the city working and could go on Fridays
15:23
and enjoy the museum and meet people.
15:26
It was like Tinder for art before the internet.
15:30
It was Tinder? Yes, it was Tinder for art.
15:34
Because it was, I think the cutoff age was 45. It was all young people.
15:41
Which when you're 21, you're like 45. It seems, oh my God, you can't call them young.
15:47
I went on a date with a 40, I was 25.
15:51
And I went on a date with a 40-year-old man.
15:55
And I was like, this feels strange. Oh my God. He was so nice.
16:00
God, he's one of the nicest, like the nicest guys.
16:03
But I've not thought about that in 20 years. But I think about that now,
16:08
the age difference. I don't think it matters. It matters.
16:12
My parents are 14 years apart. I guess it didn't matter then.
16:15
But I think about that now and I was like, I was very young and also like needed to grow up a lot.
16:21
Yeah. I think after 30, I think your maturity level, it doesn't matter.
16:25
But under 30, you still haven't experienced and don't know who you are. Not at all.
16:31
So I think that's the big difference. I think I finally figured out who I was at 40.
16:36
Yeah. I think it took that long. I'm still figuring it out. I might just start
16:40
changing religions, too, like your mom testing the waters.
16:43
I'm really going to go back to that all the time because I'm obsessed with that thought.
16:48
I love that. I love that so much about her. I don't even know her,
16:51
but I want to. I feel like I know she's a hoot. I want to meet her.
16:55
And then what took you from the Guggenheim to Columbia for your master's degree?
17:01
So after Guggenheim, I went to the Whitney as a curatorial assistant because
17:07
as an art history major, everyone wants to be a curator, right?
17:10
That's the path. The goal, right? I loved it.
17:13
I did the Altria Whitney space, which it was an emerging artist space where
17:19
they could do installation.
17:20
So I got to work really close with every single artist because I was helping
17:24
them make their exhibition, the installation. So one was Byron Kim.
17:30
He is a contemporary minimalist painter who was also Korean parents, doctors.
17:37
He went to Yale and he decided he wanted to be an artist. His parents were like, ha ha, funny.
17:44
But obviously, he's a very successful artist. He's in all the top collections.
17:49
You might know him. He does these portraits. And some of them are very small, like four by three.
17:56
The portraits are basically your skin color. Oh, wow.
17:59
So when he does family portraits, he'll do the skin color of each family member.
18:05
So he did an exhibition at the Altria, which was in the ex-Philomoris building.
18:10
And he wanted to paint the room with all the dirt from the building.
18:18
So I had to call the custodian department of Phila Morris and say,
18:22
hey, can I have your vacuum cleaner?
18:25
Because our artist wants to play. So they were very suspicious because Phila
18:31
Morris during that time with all the lobbying and against smoking, they were like, what?
18:36
I don't get it. So we had to get all this clearance, security clearance,
18:39
to get the vacuum, the dirt back from the vacuum.
18:42
Like thinking someone was just going to test all their dirt to see what they
18:44
were doing wrong and it was bad for the environment and stuff.
18:46
When really he just wanted to paint the walls. Exactly.
18:49
So he mixed that with water and he painted the room with that.
18:53
And it was beautiful when he finished because it was just shades of gray.
19:01
And texture everywhere. But stinky for sure.
19:06
So he and I, and I would have to stay with him. So I was sort of like the key keeper.
19:11
And one night we were there very late because obviously he was thinking and
19:15
painting and got into this talk.
19:18
And he told me, if curatorial is the only thing you want to do in your entire life, stick with it.
19:25
Because my boss, she was in her 40s.
19:28
She had published many books.
19:30
She had her PhD from Yale in art history. She's a Robert Smithson expert,
19:36
and she was still an associate curator of
19:39
at the Whitney getting paid $40,000 a year.
19:44
So I was like, Oh, my God. So I'm like, I think I'm interested in fashion,
19:49
thinking that you make a lot more money in fashion. So glamorous. So glamorous. No.
19:53
And he's like, do it. And I was like, Okay, I'll do it.
19:57
So I actually start looking for a job in fashion world. And no one would hire me.
20:03
Because they're like, you didn't go to a typical merchandising or fashion school, FIT Parsons.
20:08
We know girls like you, you'll come, we hire you and you're going to leave in six months.
20:13
And I was like, no, I won't. So they won't hire me. I was like, I'll be a receptionist.
20:17
They're like, no. And then Byron was like, oh, I heard these people,
20:21
they go to this business school to like switch careers.
20:25
And I was like, what? I was like, what is a business school?
20:29
So I started doing my research. I wanted to stay in New York because I was actually
20:33
married by then. I didn't want to move the farm.
20:35
We didn't have kids, but I still thought, and also I'm like, I want to be in fashion.
20:39
So that's why I decided to go to Columbia, got in.
20:43
And when I was at Columbia, I tried to learn as much as possible about business,
20:47
balance sheet, accounting, and oh my God, corporate finance,
20:51
which is actually an art.
20:53
Yes, it is. It is an art. Watch Ben do it. Yeah.
20:56
Every single day when he looks at companies i'm like i'm like
20:59
spinning it's based on assumptions yes
21:02
billions of dollars all statistics i'm like
21:05
wait so it is i'm going to an art school it's
21:09
a performance art very funny so i did that and another crazy story is and i
21:14
tell this story to a lot of young people who are looking for a career you never
21:19
know what's gonna happen and don't take no for an answer so second year at business
21:23
school, everyone's getting these glam jobs.
21:26
McKinsey, Goldman, crazy salary bonus.
21:30
And they actually recruit many, many months in advance.
21:34
So after their internship, they get an offer. So they know like second year,
21:38
they're set, right? All these people have offers.
21:42
Me, I was in retail, so they only hire when you're needed. Yep. Yep.
21:49
And so I was kind of like, oh, my God, I'm going to have student debt.
21:54
I'm going to have no job. My friends are making like crazy six figures.
22:00
What am I going to do? One of my friends who actually got a job at LV.
22:05
She was at Saks before. For those who don't know, LV is Louis Vuitton. So she came from retail.
22:12
She went to business school and she has stayed in retail.
22:14
And so she got a job at the LV internship. It's a one-year internship.
22:19
And she actually was like, hey, this recruiter called me.
22:23
This company is looking for a merchant.
22:26
I'm going to recommend you. I was like, oh, my God, thank you. Wow.
22:30
So I contact the woman and she says, you don't fit the profile. Oh, okay.
22:39
I'm not going to recommend you. I'm not going for a CEO position of this company.
22:44
It's entry level merchant job. I have two years of business school.
22:49
I worked at Prada, Chanel, Vera Wang, coach at this point.
22:54
Like I had a pretty experience. I have experience. But then I knew the job description
22:59
and I knew the company because, you know, I had the description of the job. I was like, Uniqlo.
23:05
I was like, never heard of this company. But you know what?
23:08
If she says she's not going to submit my resume, I'll submit my own.
23:12
Did a little research, got their fax number, got the job.
23:16
While I was negotiating my salary because I knew they were going through a search
23:21
firm and they had a budget for a search firm, I was able to negotiate a higher
23:25
salary because I told them that they're not paying.
23:29
They didn't have to pay the search firm now. And you should put part of that budget into my salary.
23:37
Wow. And I gave a finger to the woman who said no to me.
23:41
Yeah. For not fitting the quote unquote profile. Yeah. Wow.
23:46
Okay. So you're at Uniqlo. Yes. And it's fascinating. And I was going to Japan every month.
23:51
And had you had Pepina yet or were you? No, I didn't. So it was great.
23:55
So I was in Japan almost every month for a week. We would leave.
23:59
With Alejandro, Alejandro Isman's husband. Yes. Would he, hi Alejandro.
24:03
He came, he came. He'd go with you. Yeah, sometimes, not all the time because
24:06
you know, once a month is a little too much. Yeah. So yeah, we would leave Sunday.
24:11
We get there Monday night, Tuesday morning we're in the office.
24:14
We finish Friday. We leave Saturday morning and we land Saturday morning in
24:19
US. And then you're back in the U.S. office on Monday. Yeah.
24:22
How was your health at that point? Oh, I mean, I was so young.
24:25
You were so young. We bounced back so fast. I'm young. Damn it.
24:29
And then I had Pepina, and when she was about six months old,
24:33
that's when I started thinking about getting a new job because it was just too hard.
24:37
Yeah, it's hard when a baby's that little. Yeah.
24:40
So when did you get the idea for Santam?
24:46
Santam. So after Uniqlo, I worked at Walmart doing women's soft accessories.
24:54
So I was pregnant with Lorenzo.
24:56
And I'm short.
24:58
We share that in common, our shortness. And I always love to wear heels.
25:06
And living in Upper East Side, commuting via lovely NYC subway.
25:13
When you have kids, your life changes.
25:16
You carry so much more stuff because you have their stuff.
25:21
And your life, you just need to simplify your life.
25:24
And my bag would weigh, kid you not, like 30, 40 pounds. Because back then you had your BlackBerry.
25:32
You had your regular phone. And laptops were a lot more heavier.
25:36
They were like 18 pounds back then. And then you have all the chargers because
25:39
the batteries only lasted like an hour.
25:42
Yes. And then as a retail buyer, you always have your binder of your sales information.
25:50
So every night I'd be like, I'm going to go through my bag. I'm like, do I need this pencil?
25:55
No. I mean, I literally be like, do I need this lipstick tomorrow?
25:59
No. And I would like just take out everything.
26:04
And I'm like, why am I carrying a pair of shoes? Shoes are supposed to be a
26:08
functional part of your wardrobe.
26:10
Someone make me comfortable heels. So like every six months,
26:13
I would be like Googling comfortable heels, and it would be the most geriatric
26:19
collection of ugliest shoes in the entire world.
26:23
And I'd be like, okay, maybe $500 I could get a pair of shoes.
26:28
And I'd be like, okay, $700.
26:30
Like every season, I'd be like, $1,000. $1,000, everyone, anyone,
26:35
make me a shoe so I could walk on that I don't have to feel like I'm crippling my feet.
26:39
Like it's a Chinese foot binding, right? You're putting your foot into an unnatural
26:45
box, and you're forced to walk.
26:48
Yeah, yeah. It's a modern-day, very expensive Chinese foot binding.
26:51
And I was like, oh, my God.
26:53
Couldn't find it. And we were on vacation in Mexico, Alejandro and I.
26:57
And I think I was shopping for shoes or something.
27:01
And I was like, oh, and I was getting so frustrated. And he was like,
27:04
just make your own shoes. I'm like.
27:07
He's like, you always wanted to start your own business. You have the background.
27:11
Start your own company. And I was like, oh yeah, I forgot about that part of my life.
27:17
It's like, yeah, I'll do it. That's when I started.
27:19
And what was the first shoe that you made?
27:23
Oh, it was a collection. When I thought about the collection,
27:26
it's the merchant mine, right? So I'm like, who is she?
27:30
What's her lifestyle? And what does she need? This is all before COVID, guys.
27:35
So I'm like okay I want
27:39
to dress the professional women who are women
27:42
who have to be on their feet female executives
27:45
consultants lawyers bankers I'm thinking of my friends from business school
27:51
I'm thinking of my circle of my lady friends who still need to look sharp because
27:55
there was they're either presenting
27:57
to c-suite board or on a podium I'm like okay what does she need
28:03
And I did a survey with my friends, a survey monkey.
28:08
I was like, how do you shop for your shoes? They're like, work shoes.
28:12
Not the like, I'm going to a gala. Evening out shoes.
28:16
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or I'm running on weekends. I was like, how do you work shoes?
28:20
Tell me about it. They're like, most of them are like, on Amtrak.
28:25
I'm waiting for Metro North. I'm at a terminal. I look at down my feet.
28:29
I realize I need a new pair of brown shoes. Pumps.
28:33
Are black because now they're like scuffed and disgusting and unpresentable.
28:38
I mean, you need to be polished for these jobs, right? Yes, yes.
28:41
And I go on Zacks or Zappos or Neiman's, pick out five, six pairs. They get shipped to me.
28:50
I try them on at home. One of them sort of works out, but I'm so desperate and
28:55
I don't have time to go to a mall on weekends because now I have small children. I have to run around.
29:00
Okay, so I'm going to design a shoe wardrobe for her. So we did a Monday shoe.
29:04
It's a loafer that she's running it to her terminal with her teammates.
29:09
Because back then wearing sneakers wasn't cool.
29:11
It wasn't part of everyone's wardrobe. It was not what we did.
29:14
And there weren't that many good-looking sneakers.
29:17
And then Tuesday, we made a pump, a block heel, because she's at the client's
29:22
working, and she needs to be comfortable.
29:24
Wednesday, we did a boot just in case her client is in Seattle,
29:28
and it happens to be raining, and she needs a boot.
29:31
She needs a boot, yeah. Thursday, we did sort of a little bit more of a sexy
29:34
heel, because Thursday night happy hour.
29:37
And then Friday, we did another fun shoe for her to land and go to her weekend
29:41
house, more of an espadrille.
29:44
Okay. So that's how I did it. And we actually named it after all my favorite
29:48
towns, actually neighborhoods in Italy, because it's where I picture myself wearing.
29:54
So we have Sanfordiano, Chiaia, Monti, Brera, and Anacapri.
30:03
That's how sort of I merchandised our shoes.
30:05
Oh, I love that. And then you could have one for every day. Correct.
30:08
You have them for different reasons.
30:10
Yeah. I have the boots and I love them. And they're waterproof.
30:13
Yes. and they're a low heel, but they're still a heel because I like my heels.
30:17
I have a problem wearing flats.
30:19
55 millimeter, which is a good slope.
30:22
It's actually the perfect pitch for a lot of human beings because it gives you
30:27
a natural arch because you're lifted and it releases back pain.
30:31
Little plug for Freakonomics. I don't know if you guys listened to Freakonomics.
30:35
There was an episode called These Shoes Hurt Me.
30:39
It was with an anthropologist, podiatrist, and a
30:43
curator from pata museum which is a shoe museum up
30:46
in toronto and basically they were saying that humans were never meant to use
30:53
our heel as a touch point for everyday walking we walked on our toes or lifted
31:01
more of the forefront of your feet,
31:05
Like when you're in bar, like when you're elevated in bar. Okay.
31:08
So if you look at any kind of athlete, they spend very little time on theirs
31:13
because it's actually, it's a very inefficient way of moving, right?
31:16
The conversation started with, why do so many people have plantar fasciitis?
31:21
And the whole thing was because the heel wasn't meant for a contact.
31:26
It was meant for stability and, you know, sometimes balance,
31:30
but it wasn't meant for every step. And we're not supposed to be hard on our
31:34
heels. But there's this thing called shoes.
31:37
Humans made it because they're smart and they want to be comfortable.
31:40
And then all these shoe companies start putting more padding on your feet.
31:44
And so people start using more of the heel because that became more of a natural
31:49
gait when it's not supposed to.
31:50
That's why it's called mismatch disease because it's something that we made, right?
31:55
And so he was like, first of all, he's like, look at how babies start to walk. How do they walk?
32:01
On their toes. He's like, that's the natural way. Last year,
32:05
I met this woman who is a natural gynecologist, and she actually said she makes
32:11
her patients do this exercise where they get on their tippy toes.
32:14
To release their pelvis.
32:16
And then you open up the hips. And then you ovulate more.
32:21
For those of you wanting to get pregnant or not wanting to get pregnant,
32:24
either go on your tippy toes or don't.
32:26
And it sort of then all makes sense, right? It does. Because I'm like,
32:30
if we were naturally supposed to walk on our heels with more open pelvic,
32:35
which makes your ovulation flow much easier.
32:39
I want to listen to this episode. I'm going to link it. Yeah.
32:42
Because this sounds really good to listen to.
32:43
It is. So you have your shoes. We work with a podiatrist who co-taught shoe designing at Parsons.
32:49
He looks at our shoes and sort of corrects it and gives us all the pointers
32:55
to make our shoes ergonomic.
32:56
Our main designer is out of Milan. Yeah.
32:58
And we make everything in Italy. How did you find your factory? I went on a factory tour.
33:03
It's one of the most fascinating, fun part of creating your own brand.
33:07
So you find, you locate factories that you'd want to work with.
33:10
So Italian factories are very weird.
33:13
They're like a little bit of a mafia. Okay. So they're not listed on directory.
33:18
It's really hard to find them. I remember trying to research them when I was
33:21
at the Fashion Institute in San Francisco because we had to do this whole big
33:25
merchandising plan of something we were creating. And I was looking at Italy,
33:30
I couldn't find names of anything.
33:33
This is strange. I mean, you could find Asia, you could find Philippines, you could find Vietnam.
33:39
You could find all those, but you could not find Italy. And now I understand
33:42
why. There are a few things why.
33:44
So I went on a factory tour with my Italian designer who knew pretty much almost
33:50
every single factory in Italy.
33:52
And that's why I needed to get an Italian designer. And one reason is things have changed.
33:59
They're becoming more conglomerates, purchasing them, like the LVs of the world
34:04
are buying up a lot of the factories or VC firms.
34:08
How traditional is that these factories are very, still a lot of them are family owned.
34:12
And their capacity is quite small when you think about it.
34:16
They could average capacity of an Italian factory, shoe factory is about 2,000
34:20
units per week. So, for example, a factory in the Philippines or in Asia,
34:28
millions per week. Yeah.
34:30
And many more people working there, bigger facilities.
34:34
The attention to detail is probably a lot less because in the smaller factories
34:40
with the smaller group of people, you're taking your time. You're watching what you're doing. Yep.
34:45
My dad created things with his hands. He was a machine maker, basically.
34:51
My nonu built things when he came over from Italy, and he and my dad eventually
34:56
opened this business making machinery, and it was just the two of them.
35:01
And it took them a really long time to make it.
35:04
They didn't want anyone else involved. They had a system for how they did it.
35:08
It took a long time, but they were the best machine on the market when they made these.
35:17
It cost a little bit more, but people waited for them to do it because it was so perfectly done.
35:23
And that's how Italians do things. Yes. It takes a long time.
35:27
It's well done. And it lasts forever.
35:30
Yes. And I feel like those are like three of the things that I grew up knowing
35:32
about Italian items, right? A craftsman. Yes. They're artists.
35:37
So I'll tell you what. I mean, again, when I worked at Walmart,
35:42
one of the first questions we asked vendor is what is your weekly capacity?
35:46
If you didn't have that threshold for that category, we say come back when you're there.
35:51
We can't even start a conversation if you cannot make our quantity, right?
35:56
That was like first red flag for us. So think of that in Asia,
36:01
where the factories are like football fields, humongous.
36:05
You got lines, lines, hundreds of people working.
36:08
And these people know how to work a machine.
36:11
So they might have been working at a book bag factory, but today they're making shoes.
36:16
And then their next job might be making socks.
36:20
So they know how to make a machine, but they know how to use a machine,
36:25
but they don't know how to make things, if that makes sense.
36:28
Italians, they make things. They've been working in the shoe industry.
36:33
Their uncle has been there.
36:34
Their father, they grew up in that. It's fourth, third. They don't have to be owners.
36:40
All the workers, they've been in the industry all their lives.
36:44
And then they got the best last maker down the street.
36:48
They have the best tannery down the street. They have the best heel maker down
36:53
the street. So it's this ecosystem of the best of the best living and working together.
36:58
And they take their time. So they don't rush anything. They take their breaks.
37:03
I mean, literally during lunchtime, the light goes off. I'm like, they all go out.
37:10
And they have their lunch. It's amazing. I really enjoy it. A lot of them go
37:14
home. Yes. And have lunch with their family. Their spouse.
37:18
It's really siesta, like siesta time. So when their capacity is so low,
37:23
they don't have to look for a new brand.
37:26
If they get an, not even the whole collection, but if they get one shoe,
37:31
let's say a black loafer from Prada to make for their global market.
37:36
Which is going to be probably 10,000 units, their capacity is done for a month
37:42
and a half or two months, whatever.
37:46
And this is what they mean when they're booked for the month.
37:48
They literally have a shoe they're already making for that month. Correct.
37:52
They can't do yours. They go somewhere else. So they don't need to publicize.
37:57
And we're looking for a new brand or new shoe to make. Because everyone knows
38:00
each other and they're like, I know you make the best loafers.
38:03
Make it for me. They literally open the door like this, and they say, Kiai!
38:08
Yeah! And I'm like, which is, who are you?
38:11
And then, of course, my designers were like, Leopoldo! And they're like,
38:15
and they open the door, and they cap, you know, espresso come out, and it's amazing.
38:20
So that's what we did. And we found a factory in Napoli, which we love.
38:25
So that's who we work with. And then we have the Fulana line that we work with,
38:30
a factory in Puglia and outside of Venice.
38:32
And the Fuliana line is your loaf, the slip-ons, the velvet ones,
38:37
which are so – and they've got the Mary Jane one and the slip-on ones,
38:41
which are super comfortable. Yeah.
38:43
People love walking around. Washable. How did you start actually selling the shoes?
38:47
Knowing the wholesale market, because my factory in Napoli were making Prada, Fendi.
38:52
They were the first ones to make the Chloe Scallop shoes. Mm-hmm.
38:56
Max Mara. I mean, these hens are making these shoes.
38:59
And so I was probably I was not probably I
39:02
was paying more per pair than any of the brands because
39:05
I didn't have the volume yeah which I respect what
39:08
right so the other thing to learn about this if you don't know about
39:11
this environment manufacturing the smaller amount you purchase the higher price
39:15
you pay as you get larger quantities they charge you less yeah so I'm like I
39:20
can't and I can't I can't compete with Jimmy choose of the world yeah and because
39:26
I need me millions of dollars just for branding.
39:29
Or do I want to be another Jimmy Choo? No, not really. So what I did was because
39:33
it was, you know, I made these for my friends who are working with a professional
39:37
woman, we start selling it to.
39:40
We would start having trunk shows at the corporation. So American Express, BCG, McKinsey's.
39:47
We went in, we did a trunk show. But what we did was we also did a networking and learning.
39:52
It wasn't just to sell shoes, but it was about we brought a stylist so women
39:57
knew how to dress for different occasions because business casual was the new thing.
40:03
And they were like, well, is a black jeans business casual?
40:06
Like what is business casual? How do I change my wardrobe here to,
40:09
you know, fit this new environment?
40:11
Yeah. Oh, we did Italian wine tasting, did foot yoga.
40:15
So there was always a learning or networking component on top of selling shoes,
40:19
which I think women appreciated.
40:21
So we started doing that.
40:23
And we actually, and these take a really long time to plan because you have
40:27
to get on the right schedule of these corporations, these large corporations.
40:32
You know, they plan out their calendar almost a year in advance.
40:36
So we had about like six weeks of roadshow planned March 2020.
40:44
As I was driving up to Toronto and was about 30 minutes outside of the border,
40:51
I got a call from American Express saying,
40:54
as of immediately, we're not allowed to have any outsiders come into our building.
41:00
I'm so sorry. We need to cancel your trunk show. Also, had you gone over to
41:05
the Canadian, over the Canadian border, would you have been able to come home? Yes. Okay.
41:11
Because it was like shutting down. Yeah. I was like, you know what?
41:15
I was like, you know, we didn't know how serious this thing was.
41:18
I was like, whatever. I'm 30 minutes. I'm going to cross over.
41:21
We had other trunk shows.
41:23
Did it. It was actually quite successful because everyone was sort of like,
41:26
this might be our last night out.
41:27
This might be our last foray. Let's just do it. Let's go. and then
41:31
Alejandro called me well I was talking to Alejandro he's like
41:33
I think they're shutting the borders I wanna pack up
41:37
and get out of there get out of back home there so that's
41:40
what happened and we had to literally like we had this amazing plan that took
41:44
me months to plan and it got completely wiped out but then you know Italy shut
41:50
down so we weren't even making shoes it felt like did it feel like a pause or
41:54
at that point were you I was like I might not even have a brand it might be done yeah.
41:59
Because we looked at, I was like, okay, let's go to Spain. Let's go to Portugal.
42:02
Let's go to Brazil. So we looked, we were like, how do we start manufacturing
42:06
in other places? But then it was domino effect. So everyone's shutting down.
42:10
The world. Wait, we're going to have to bring Min back because we have more
42:13
to talk about. Oh my God. I have the three questions. Yes.
42:16
That I want to get to. Okay. We have to do a double episode with you.
42:20
Yes. It's too much. Okay.
42:22
First, a question that everyone's going to get when they sit down on the couch with me.
42:25
What's something you've changed your mind about recently? Everything's going
42:28
to be okay. It'll always work out.
42:31
There is a reason for everything. Yes. It all happens for a reason.
42:35
For example, I didn't get into MIT. That's right.
42:40
But then I met my husband at Wesleyan. And the four years of Wesleyan,
42:46
I always say, I want, I decide,
42:50
I don't push Wesleyan and my daughter because the four years at Wesleyan was so incredible.
42:55
I want her to have her own experience like that. Her own incredible.
43:00
And so I'm like, you know, again, I just got the chance. Yeah. I love that.
43:05
Next question. What's the most random thing on your bucket list?
43:08
Okay. I was thinking about this.
43:11
And I always see this. When I lived in Upper East Side and I had to go to Upper
43:16
West Side for work, I used to walk across the park every day.
43:20
And there was this woman, probably in her 80s, she had purple hair, purple track suit.
43:29
She would have her coffee in her mug, like porcelain mug, not even like thermal mug. Yeah.
43:35
A cream cheese bagel and a radio, like a boombox radio with double D batteries.
43:43
She would listen to her NPR every day on a bench, eating her bagel and drinking her coffee.
43:50
You're miserable when you're going to work in the morning. You're like, oh, I'm so tired.
43:54
My kids. And then I'm like, I look at it and I'll be like, I want to be you
43:58
when I grow up. That's my bucket list.
44:01
She didn't give a shit. She didn't have zero Fox given. Yeah.
44:04
He was like, I'm going to listen to my NPR on a loud radio in the middle of Central.
44:09
Hair and outfit. Central Park with my mug and.
44:13
I will come visit you. I will come sit and listen and wear my heels every day.
44:18
All right. If you could give your younger self one piece of advice,
44:22
what would it be? Don't take no for an answer.
44:26
It just means not now. That's right. That's right.
44:31
And I know even our kids, oh, he's going to say no.
44:36
So what? So that's the worst that can happen? Yeah. So they say no. Yeah. Move on.
44:41
That's right. There are 350 million people in the United States.
44:44
I'm sure one of them will say yes to whatever you need.
44:48
I'm so sad you have to go already. I know. This was just a million things to
44:53
talk about. I don't know, just rambling on about it.
44:56
Oh, thank you for being here. It's nothing helpful, but if you want to know
45:01
anything about retail, let me know.
45:02
I know. Men's our go-to. Men's our go-to.