Latest / Podcast on the Brink / POTB 539: The 2025-26 Big Ten top 40 players list with Dylan Burkhardt

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POTB 539: The 2025-26 Big Ten top 40 players list with Dylan Burkhardt · Podcast on the Brink

0:18
Speaker 1: Welcome back to a new episode of Podcasts on the Brink, Wednesday,
0:23
Speaker 1: September tenth. One of my favorite Big Ten Hoops writers
0:28
Speaker 1: on this week's episode of Podcasts on the Brink Dylan Burkhart.
0:31
Speaker 1: If you follow the Big Ten, if you follow Michigan,
0:33
Speaker 1: you know him of um hoops dot com. Before we
0:36
Speaker 1: get to Dylan, I wanted to take a quick second
0:39
Speaker 1: ask you kindly to leave us a five star rating
0:43
Speaker 1: review over on Apple Podcasts, over on Spotify. You're watching
0:47
Speaker 1: us over on YouTube like the video. Subscribe to the
0:50
Speaker 1: channel really helps us increase our reach. The YouTube numbers
0:53
Speaker 1: have been going up stebtily. That's great to see. I
0:55
Speaker 1: want to continue that. Dylan A week later. I guess
0:59
Speaker 1: we do this podcast last year. I think we did
1:01
Speaker 1: it the week that we finished the Big Ten list.
1:06
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the show, Dylan, How you doing.
1:08
Speaker 3: I was great to be on.
1:09
Speaker 2: I feel like our list was less controversial this year, hopefully.
1:13
Speaker 2: I don't know if that makes it a better or
1:14
Speaker 2: worse list, but always good to be back on the
1:17
Speaker 2: show and thanks for having me.
1:18
Speaker 3: Yeah.
1:19
Speaker 1: For those maybe who just listen to the podcast, maybe
1:21
Speaker 1: don't check out all of our written content. I think
1:25
Speaker 1: I added it up and included it in this year's
1:28
Speaker 1: right up that this is year thirteen of Dylan and
1:31
Speaker 1: I going through ranking the top players in the Big Ten.
1:35
Speaker 1: What started out as a top twenty five list last
1:39
Speaker 1: year expanded to forty players because the Big Ten obviously
1:42
Speaker 1: added four teams. I think it would have been incredibly
1:45
Speaker 1: difficult to rank twenty five players in an eighteen team league,
1:47
Speaker 1: so been a little bit more work on our end,
1:50
Speaker 1: but we're happy to do it as two sites that
1:53
Speaker 1: primarily well inside the Hall now doing a little football coverage,
1:56
Speaker 1: but Dylan primarily focuses on Michigan basketball.
2:00
Speaker 3: Run.
2:00
Speaker 1: You have hoops, we talk hoops, We do everything in
2:06
Speaker 1: terms of basketball year round. So the list for us,
2:13
Speaker 1: I think, in many ways is away for us in
2:17
Speaker 1: the preseason to kind of get geared up for our
2:20
Speaker 1: preseason content and familiarize ourselves with the rosters in the
2:25
Speaker 1: Big Ten. But more than anything else, the last couple
2:27
Speaker 1: of years, with the transfer portal and all of the
2:29
Speaker 1: movement and the Big Ten, it's kind of become necessary
2:33
Speaker 1: to really dig into to all these teams and all
2:36
Speaker 1: these new players. It's crazy to think of how much
2:42
Speaker 1: the sport has changed in the last four or five years, don't.
2:45
Speaker 1: I mean from when we started doing this list to now,
2:49
Speaker 1: what's maybe been the biggest change in your mind in
2:51
Speaker 1: terms of how we go about this exercise and how
2:54
Speaker 1: we kind of approach this on a year to year basis.
2:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, the sheer size of the league I think
3:00
Speaker 2: plays a big factor. Just in terms of eighteen teams.
3:03
Speaker 2: The idea of even doing a twenty five person list
3:07
Speaker 2: is almost irrelevant. Right You're looking at that'll be the
3:10
Speaker 2: best player on every team and then seven other guys.
3:13
Speaker 3: It's not even that big of a group.
3:15
Speaker 2: And I think what really stands out as we get
3:17
Speaker 2: into this portal era is obviously you can look and
3:21
Speaker 2: many of the top five, top ten, Top twenty players
3:24
Speaker 2: are transfers. A lot haven't played in the big ten.
3:27
Speaker 2: We don't really know how they're gonna fare. I think
3:30
Speaker 2: last year shows how far off we can be when
3:33
Speaker 2: we look at some of these transfers. No one in
3:35
Speaker 2: the world had John Tanji anywhere close to top forty.
3:37
Speaker 2: All of a sudden, He's incredible, and there's just so
3:40
Speaker 2: many players can fall through the gaps in this analysis,
3:44
Speaker 2: and there's definitely I think group think has always been
3:48
Speaker 2: a big part of college basketball in the offseason when
3:51
Speaker 2: it comes to teams and the teams that are crowned
3:54
Speaker 2: the top ten preseason teams in April, right after the
3:59
Speaker 2: Final Four, after the portal, after the draft, like that
4:02
Speaker 2: just becomes accepted. And if you really look back through
4:05
Speaker 2: the years, I know the preseason polls are usually somewhat accurate,
4:09
Speaker 2: but they're not that accurate. And I do think sometimes
4:12
Speaker 2: just taking a step back to think about things that
4:14
Speaker 2: as a hole and reset that without your priors can
4:18
Speaker 2: be really useful. But generally with the list and I
4:22
Speaker 2: think the revenue sharing the nil every Big ten team
4:26
Speaker 2: has a really good player, I would say in a
4:29
Speaker 2: way that maybe they wouldn't have had ten years ago
4:31
Speaker 2: when we were doing this list. Right, it's pretty the
4:34
Speaker 2: amount of top level talent I think in the league
4:38
Speaker 2: is in a good spot, and there are like if
4:42
Speaker 2: you don't like your point guard, well it's your own
4:44
Speaker 2: damn fault because you went out and got it right.
4:46
Speaker 2: Like that's the thing that kind of stands out is
4:48
Speaker 2: it's almost more like an NBA team roster construction, where
4:52
Speaker 2: everyone has a max player, everyone has a second highest
4:55
Speaker 2: paid player, everyone has kind of the same roster breakdown
4:59
Speaker 2: in that sense, So it's hard to be like, you're
5:01
Speaker 2: not just having a really good player used to be
5:04
Speaker 2: enough to maybe put you.
5:06
Speaker 3: Ahead of the rest of the league.
5:07
Speaker 2: And if you didn't have a really good player, if
5:10
Speaker 2: you couldn't get that, if you missed that guy in
5:12
Speaker 2: high school two years ago, your whole season was kind
5:14
Speaker 2: of doomed. I don't think that really applies now, and
5:17
Speaker 2: I think that makes it really interesting at the top
5:19
Speaker 2: of the lists, not to you have a guy who
5:21
Speaker 2: is a top fifteen, top twenty players. Is that guy
5:24
Speaker 2: better than the best guy on Oregon or the best
5:27
Speaker 2: guy in Indiana? And I think the hierarchy of things
5:30
Speaker 2: has really changed and shifted kind of the at least
5:33
Speaker 2: the way I look at the rosters in the offseason.
5:37
Speaker 1: Before we kind of dive into the list. Obviously, we're
5:39
Speaker 1: not going to go player about player because we don't
5:41
Speaker 1: don't have time for that, and I don't think anyone
5:43
Speaker 1: wants to hear a forty player Big Ten Breakdown podcast.
5:46
Speaker 1: But I wanted to ask you something I talked to
5:49
Speaker 1: Jordan Majeski a couple weeks ago on a podcast. Not
5:51
Speaker 1: sure if you listen to it or not. But one
5:54
Speaker 1: thing I'm curious, and I like to pick your brain
5:56
Speaker 1: on this stuff because you study this stuff super close,
5:59
Speaker 1: and I know you're super familiar with the portal, but
6:02
Speaker 1: with all of the up transfers to the Big Ten,
6:04
Speaker 1: and I know Michigan's had its fair share of up
6:07
Speaker 1: transfers even going back before the portal really became what
6:11
Speaker 1: it was what it is now when you look at
6:15
Speaker 1: guys that are moving up from a smaller league, and
6:18
Speaker 1: Jordan kind of talked about, you know how, finishing at
6:22
Speaker 1: the rim and high two point percentage kind of being
6:25
Speaker 1: a red flag for maybe not transferring working for transfers
6:28
Speaker 1: up for reguards specifically. But are there any things, I
6:32
Speaker 1: think anything that you look at statistically or when you
6:34
Speaker 1: watch guys on film and say this could be a
6:37
Speaker 1: red flag this, this does work in terms of transferring
6:39
Speaker 1: up or anything you say that maybe a guy does
6:42
Speaker 1: this that that should work at any level of college basketball.
6:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there's two ways to look at it.
6:48
Speaker 2: For the most part, I think there are some baseline
6:51
Speaker 2: indicators of Okay, is this guy talented enough to play
6:55
Speaker 2: at a higher level, right, whether that's looking at block
6:58
Speaker 2: and steel rate to kind of gauge up the lettuce
7:00
Speaker 2: and whether that's rebounding percentages, whether it's I think finishing
7:04
Speaker 2: at the rim is a great one, like can you
7:05
Speaker 2: finish at the rim? Do you shoot better than fifty
7:08
Speaker 2: percent on twos? Do you have a scalable game? Things
7:11
Speaker 2: like that, But really, I think a lot comes down
7:14
Speaker 2: to role more than anything. I think if you look
7:16
Speaker 2: at you can have a really successful year if you're
7:20
Speaker 2: scaling down your role sometimes or but really just if
7:23
Speaker 2: you're in the right role. And if you need a
7:25
Speaker 2: guy to come in and be your best player and
7:27
Speaker 2: he's a mid major low major up transfer, you might
7:30
Speaker 2: have some issues, right if you want him to do
7:31
Speaker 2: the exact same thing he did, But if you need
7:34
Speaker 2: him to maybe maybe he's the best guy on a
7:37
Speaker 2: Missouri Valley team, but you need him to be your
7:39
Speaker 2: third best guy. Just defend, just shoot threes, just do
7:42
Speaker 2: one or two things. I think then it becomes a
7:45
Speaker 2: lot easier. And this year I think you saw almost
7:51
Speaker 2: like the idea of just an uptransfer. I don't know
7:53
Speaker 2: if it still applies in the sense that there are
7:56
Speaker 2: some up transfers who are.
7:57
Speaker 3: Like mid major league players the year.
8:00
Speaker 2: And that's a lot different than a guy who's maybe
8:03
Speaker 2: like a low major starter or third team All conference guy, right, Like,
8:07
Speaker 2: are you coming from the Asan, are you coming from
8:09
Speaker 2: the Mountain West?
8:10
Speaker 1: Like?
8:11
Speaker 2: We have to really kind of hone into what these
8:13
Speaker 2: leagues are and then also what these players can do,
8:16
Speaker 2: right Like Donovan Dent, Bennett SERTs. These are pretty unique
8:19
Speaker 2: guys who are coming up into the league. At the
8:23
Speaker 2: same time, I think there'll probably be a couple guys
8:25
Speaker 2: coming from low majors that surprise everyone and no one
8:29
Speaker 2: really saw it coming. And I think that's the thing is,
8:32
Speaker 2: it's not that you can't succeed if you're coming up
8:36
Speaker 2: from a thirtieth ranked league on Ken Palm to the
8:38
Speaker 2: Big ten. It's that maybe your chances of this not
8:41
Speaker 2: working or that not working fall through, the fall down
8:44
Speaker 2: a bit lower, and not everyone hits, right, it's just
8:46
Speaker 2: your hit rate that's going to change more than anything.
8:50
Speaker 1: So kind of looking at the top of the list,
8:52
Speaker 1: at least the top ten, the seem to me, I mean,
8:54
Speaker 1: the guard play in the league seems to be really
8:57
Speaker 1: strong this year. No, there was a period going back
9:01
Speaker 1: through four or five years where it was a big
9:04
Speaker 1: man dominant dominated the league yet Trace Jackson Davis, you
9:07
Speaker 1: had Zach Edy. There was others obviously that were really strong,
9:10
Speaker 1: really good front court players. You know, Hunter Dickinson at
9:14
Speaker 1: Michigan was kind of in that class too. This year
9:16
Speaker 1: you look at you know, there's Braydon Smith's you mentioned
9:19
Speaker 1: Sturts and Dat, also Bruce Thornton and Jackson Jackson. Chel
9:22
Speaker 1: said all in our top ten, is this as deep
9:26
Speaker 1: are as talented of a group in terms of big
9:28
Speaker 1: ten point guards that we've seen in quite some time,
9:30
Speaker 1: And in terms of Brayden Smith. I know, for me,
9:35
Speaker 1: I don't want to speak for you, but it was
9:36
Speaker 1: pretty cut and dry for us to kind of go
9:38
Speaker 1: ahead and slot him in at number one on the list.
9:41
Speaker 3: Yeah, Braiden Smith, I think number one.
9:44
Speaker 2: If anyone is making an argument that Braden Smith isn't
9:47
Speaker 2: the preseason number one player in the league, I'm not
9:50
Speaker 2: really sure what that would be other than like maybe
9:53
Speaker 2: he just has enough, he doesn't have to do as much.
9:55
Speaker 2: But I would say he's still like he's tier maybe
9:58
Speaker 2: two tiers above the rest. I would say just in
10:00
Speaker 2: terms of what he's accomplished, he's in the exact same role,
10:04
Speaker 2: and honestly, it's hard to find guys to make an
10:08
Speaker 2: argument to surpass them, right, Like, it's not like there's
10:10
Speaker 2: an obvious number two. I would almost say in a
10:13
Speaker 2: lot of ways, as far as the point guards, I
10:15
Speaker 2: would say it's probably the most point guard heavy the
10:18
Speaker 2: league has been since sort of those Cassius Winston, Xavier
10:22
Speaker 2: Simpson was that, like, not Mellow Trimble who there was
10:26
Speaker 2: just like a group of guards. Anthony Anthony Cowen was
10:30
Speaker 2: in that year. Like there was one year around there,
10:32
Speaker 2: like nineteen twenty where I think there were probably four
10:36
Speaker 2: or five guards in the top eight in the league
10:39
Speaker 2: and there was sort of that point guard crop bubbling,
10:42
Speaker 2: and then it went into the Big Man era with Kofi,
10:45
Speaker 2: with Dickinson, with Edie, with produced bigs, Like it was
10:49
Speaker 2: just over and over where it was just the Big
10:50
Speaker 2: Man League. It's funny, though, because the perception nationally of
10:56
Speaker 2: the Big Ten hasn't really changed. People are still going
10:58
Speaker 2: to say the same things about the Big Ten, and
11:01
Speaker 2: we don't really know.
11:04
Speaker 3: What Bennetts, Starts and Donovan Dent are going to be.
11:06
Speaker 3: Are they going to be all American level point guards
11:10
Speaker 3: in the Big Ten?
11:10
Speaker 2: It'll be interesting to see how that plays out, because
11:13
Speaker 2: I think they're two of the bigger swing pieces in
11:17
Speaker 2: the list where I think they clearly have done everything
11:19
Speaker 2: to be established top five players in the preseason, but
11:23
Speaker 2: I don't think they're The range of outcomes is much
11:26
Speaker 2: wider than some other guys on the list, I would.
11:28
Speaker 3: Say, yeah.
11:29
Speaker 1: But even the thing that kind of stands out to
11:31
Speaker 1: me too going into the bigs, and you mentioned those
11:34
Speaker 1: players that had been in the league formerly, not guys
11:37
Speaker 1: that really were versatile anyway in terms of stretching. The
11:40
Speaker 1: four are being able to do those things. But you
11:42
Speaker 1: look at the list, I mean Nate Biddle Ivisitch of Illinois,
11:46
Speaker 1: Nolan Winner of Wisconsin obviously is more mobile than a
11:50
Speaker 1: lot of bigs, Tyler Billadeau of UCLA, even going down
11:54
Speaker 1: you know to sixteen. Yeah, Yeahkxel. I mean those those
11:58
Speaker 1: are all different than the traditional big man that that's
12:03
Speaker 1: dominated the Big Ten. I think you make a good point.
12:04
Speaker 1: I mean, everyone talks about the Big Ten being this physical,
12:08
Speaker 1: you know, grind grinder league and the paint and there's
12:11
Speaker 1: gonna still be some of that, but I do think
12:13
Speaker 1: it's actually a good thing for the league that they've
12:15
Speaker 1: gotten away from that and become a little bit more
12:17
Speaker 1: versatile and having big zickns spread the flame, it makes it,
12:22
Speaker 1: it makes a more enjoyable product to watch. I would
12:25
Speaker 1: say hopefully.
12:26
Speaker 3: Hopefully, I mean we'll have to see.
12:28
Speaker 2: I mean maybe it all gets bogged down into Big
12:30
Speaker 2: Ten basketball anyways. Like I don't think we know that
12:33
Speaker 2: for sure, right, And a lot of those guys are
12:36
Speaker 2: very good. You also like maybe it's a farrel pain
12:39
Speaker 2: and Mares Johnson and TKR, like those are still guys
12:42
Speaker 2: who are gonna do all their work around the basket.
12:45
Speaker 2: They're gonna punish you. So I do think there's there's
12:48
Speaker 2: a give and take with it. I think everyone wants
12:52
Speaker 2: the skilled bigs to succeed. But I also think what
12:55
Speaker 2: we've learned in the Big Ten, even last year, is
12:58
Speaker 2: the toughest team on the glass and in the paint
13:01
Speaker 2: is usually the one that's gonna win games. And Michigan
13:03
Speaker 2: State will attest to that, right, like they did that
13:05
Speaker 2: last year. And they don't even have bigs on this list,
13:09
Speaker 2: but that high up on this list. But again, like Jackson,
13:12
Speaker 2: Kohler is gonna be there. He's gonna be averaging twelve
13:14
Speaker 2: and eight and doing his thing, like I think it's
13:17
Speaker 2: I don't think there's one way. And honestly, the Big
13:19
Speaker 2: Ten is so spread out and there's just so much
13:23
Speaker 2: diversity in the league in a way that there didn't
13:25
Speaker 2: used to be that.
13:26
Speaker 3: I think any style can work. Right.
13:28
Speaker 2: You're gonna have Iowa playing at the slowest tempo in
13:31
Speaker 2: the country. You're gonna have Michigan trying to play fast.
13:34
Speaker 2: You're gonna have Purdue doing what they do. Ucla their
13:38
Speaker 2: coach and point guard want to go opposite speeds. Who
13:41
Speaker 2: can't wait to see how that plays out. So there's
13:43
Speaker 2: a lot of diversity in the league, which makes it
13:45
Speaker 2: a lot more I think fun to analyze, but maybe
13:49
Speaker 2: harder to predict. Right, Like back in the day, everyone
13:53
Speaker 2: was trying to play the way that Michigan State played
13:56
Speaker 2: or trying like you had to beat that or defeat that.
13:58
Speaker 2: And now you play most teams one time, like it
14:02
Speaker 2: doesn't really matter if they play a different way. You
14:04
Speaker 2: don't have as much It's not like a round robin
14:07
Speaker 2: double play where you have to be able to deal
14:09
Speaker 2: with the same style teams over and over again.
14:12
Speaker 3: So the.
14:14
Speaker 1: One thing that started out to me is we kind
14:16
Speaker 1: of worked through this and the Blue Ribbon College year,
14:19
Speaker 1: but came out over the weekend and I compared our
14:22
Speaker 1: top five to their preseason Big Ten list, and obviously
14:25
Speaker 1: we didn't see that before we did our list.
14:26
Speaker 3: It was the same.
14:27
Speaker 1: So maybe not as much controversy this year in the list.
14:30
Speaker 1: I don't know if we're falling into that group thing
14:32
Speaker 1: that you talked about a little bit earlier. But I
14:36
Speaker 1: felt like we had as I don't want to say
14:41
Speaker 1: as easy, but an easier time this year, maybe putting
14:44
Speaker 1: it together. At least at the top. It seemed to
14:47
Speaker 1: be a little bit more consensus. But the first guy
14:49
Speaker 1: that I want to talk about that we I guess
14:51
Speaker 1: kind of rolled the dice and took a chance on
14:53
Speaker 1: was Nolan Winner at twelve. I think some people, if
14:57
Speaker 1: they were going to try to pick apart our list
14:59
Speaker 1: and say this is a guy that maybe doesn't deserve
15:01
Speaker 1: to be ranked where he is, it would be him.
15:04
Speaker 3: What about what about.
15:07
Speaker 2: No?
15:08
Speaker 3: One?
15:08
Speaker 1: Winner kind of gave you the confidence to put him
15:11
Speaker 1: up there. I'm also high on two, I think in
15:13
Speaker 1: many reasons, in many ways just because I feel like
15:17
Speaker 1: every year we try to like pick apart Wisconsin and
15:21
Speaker 1: figure out a way that they're going to take a
15:23
Speaker 1: slide backwards, and it's happened so long now that to me,
15:27
Speaker 1: it feels like that's just not going to happen. And
15:29
Speaker 1: they continue to develop players, particularly in the front court.
15:34
Speaker 1: Maybe they're a little bit under recruited, maybe that obviously
15:36
Speaker 1: don't have an NBA future, but they end up staying
15:38
Speaker 1: in the program for four even five years in the
15:42
Speaker 1: case of Stephen Krowe with the COVID year and kind
15:45
Speaker 1: of outperform what you would expect and Winner to me
15:48
Speaker 1: kind of seems like the next in line for that.
15:51
Speaker 1: And if you buy Wisconsin as a top four or
15:54
Speaker 1: five Big Ten team going into the season, which I
15:56
Speaker 1: do at least at this point based on what they've
15:58
Speaker 1: done historically, he kind of feels like the guy that's
16:02
Speaker 1: going to take a leap. Is that kind of where
16:03
Speaker 1: you landed in terms of your thoughts on him?
16:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was just the funny part with Wisconsin is
16:11
Speaker 2: it used to always be never bet against the defense,
16:14
Speaker 2: and Greg Gard was a defensive guy. But they've gone
16:17
Speaker 2: to this continuity ball screen and they're just churning out
16:21
Speaker 2: all big ten players on the perimeter that no one
16:24
Speaker 2: really expects to be at that level, and I think
16:26
Speaker 2: what they're doing on offense is a really interesting part
16:30
Speaker 2: of this conversation because like we had Nick Boyd in
16:33
Speaker 2: the last spot in the list, I think we had
16:35
Speaker 2: John Blackwell pretty high overall that in the sense that
16:38
Speaker 2: I think we're high in him, and I think both
16:40
Speaker 2: those guys really fit what they want to do, just
16:43
Speaker 2: like Nolan Winter fits right. Like I think what he
16:46
Speaker 2: showed his ability to finish inside. I think he shot
16:49
Speaker 2: a really high percent, like sixty five plus on twos,
16:52
Speaker 2: he can shoot the three.
16:53
Speaker 3: I think his ability to do.
16:55
Speaker 2: Both of those things and just without crawl there, I
17:00
Speaker 2: think there's gonna be a lot more pressure on him,
17:01
Speaker 2: and I think he was likely to put up a
17:03
Speaker 2: lot more impressive offensive numbers. I know he had some
17:07
Speaker 2: dips in form or consistency at different points last year,
17:10
Speaker 2: but another year a system that I really trust, like
17:14
Speaker 2: the pick and pop three is a big part of
17:16
Speaker 2: what they're able to do within that kind of ball
17:18
Speaker 2: screen action, and they're gonna have They're gonna have the ability.
17:22
Speaker 3: To do that.
17:23
Speaker 2: I think the questions with him are defensively, like Kenny
17:25
Speaker 2: hold Up as the most physical big on the team.
17:28
Speaker 3: Kral was kind of.
17:28
Speaker 2: His enforcer next to him, and it's just a bet
17:32
Speaker 2: on his potential. I think he checks the boxes for
17:35
Speaker 2: what you want.
17:36
Speaker 3: In a kind of developing big man.
17:39
Speaker 2: The concern is, you could probably say some recent Wisconsin biggs,
17:44
Speaker 2: like it used to be everyone's on that Frank Kaminsky
17:47
Speaker 2: curve where you actually go all the way up. You
17:50
Speaker 2: could say someone like Kral kind of tapered off a bit,
17:55
Speaker 2: had some ups and downs. He was there, he logged
17:58
Speaker 2: a lot of games, he had his moments, but it
18:01
Speaker 2: was never maybe quite what you had hoped. And so
18:04
Speaker 2: I think that's maybe the question is can Winter snap
18:06
Speaker 2: that streak? Can he really break out? And I think
18:08
Speaker 2: he has a great chance. I think just playing more,
18:11
Speaker 2: being more involved in the offense, like he's so efficient
18:15
Speaker 2: with his touches already, I think he'll he can scale
18:17
Speaker 2: up nicely for them.
18:19
Speaker 1: One guy that I think we both looked at on
18:22
Speaker 1: second glance and thought, maybe this is too low and
18:25
Speaker 1: this is kind of digging down a little bit deeper
18:27
Speaker 1: in the list. But you look at Farrel Payne of
18:29
Speaker 1: Maryland down at twenty three, and Maryland to me seems
18:33
Speaker 1: like a team that is going to be somewhere category
18:37
Speaker 1: to like an Iowa in Indiana, in the middle of
18:39
Speaker 1: the pack of the league, maybe fighting for an NCAA tournament.
18:42
Speaker 3: Brooke.
18:42
Speaker 1: We have him as the highest ranked Maryland player. He's
18:45
Speaker 1: familiar with the league from his time at Minnesota. He
18:48
Speaker 1: was really good last year at Texas A and M
18:50
Speaker 1: familiar obviously with Buzz Williams, liked it enough to follow
18:54
Speaker 1: him to the college park. To me, he is a
18:58
Speaker 1: guy that I think looking back on this saying he's
19:00
Speaker 1: going to be All Big ten or first or second team,
19:02
Speaker 1: but he could be a guy by seasons in that
19:04
Speaker 1: is thirteam All Big Ten, you know, averaging close to
19:08
Speaker 1: a double double. And we look at back and say,
19:11
Speaker 1: he's someone that we overlooked. Is there anyone else you
19:15
Speaker 1: kind of look at first glance or in the top fifteen,
19:18
Speaker 1: top twenty and say maybe we were too low or
19:21
Speaker 1: even if you want to go too high on that player.
19:24
Speaker 2: Oh, I definitely agree with Pharrell pay mostly just because
19:31
Speaker 2: I think it's probably silly too for me to underrate
19:34
Speaker 2: him when I was at that Sweet sixteen game where
19:36
Speaker 2: he absolutely put it on Michigan or the sorry the
19:39
Speaker 2: second round game where he absolutely put it on Michigan,
19:41
Speaker 2: he put it on Yale. He like the biggest knock
19:46
Speaker 2: on him was that he didn't play that many minutes
19:48
Speaker 2: at Texas A and M last year, which is partially
19:51
Speaker 2: because he follows a lot and whatever else. But he's
19:55
Speaker 2: a beast. I think we overlook he's one of those guys,
19:59
Speaker 2: Like we talk a lot about returning players, but what
20:03
Speaker 2: about the transfer that follows the new coach, right, Like
20:05
Speaker 2: think about Vlad Golden last year.
20:07
Speaker 3: He was just.
20:08
Speaker 2: Incredible for Michigan and we probably underrated him a bit
20:12
Speaker 2: because he was a transfer. But if you're the transfer
20:15
Speaker 2: for your new coach, your new coach is gonna trust you,
20:18
Speaker 2: gonna give you those opportunities. And I think there's a
20:21
Speaker 2: big opportunity for Like if Pain goes from what he
20:23
Speaker 2: did in basically twenty minutes a game to twenty six
20:26
Speaker 2: twenty seven, I think he could easily be an all
20:29
Speaker 2: big ten type of guy.
20:30
Speaker 3: Uh they need him.
20:32
Speaker 2: He fits like that physical, big ten mold like there's
20:35
Speaker 2: just a lot of upside there. I think that's easily
20:38
Speaker 2: a guy we could say that we're too low on.
20:41
Speaker 3: Another guy I would point to would be uh, I'm.
20:45
Speaker 2: A little worried about well, generally, I think someone at Minnesota,
20:49
Speaker 2: like we don't have anyone listed from Minnesota, and I
20:52
Speaker 2: think Nico Medved is a really good coach and someone
20:56
Speaker 2: there is gonna put up big numbers.
20:57
Speaker 3: Now.
20:58
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's enough to be like outrageous
21:00
Speaker 2: that we didn't list them or whatever, but I'm a
21:03
Speaker 2: little worried, Like, Okay, if some like I think it's
21:06
Speaker 2: a what's the kid who's coming with him from Like
21:09
Speaker 2: Jalen Crocker Johnson six' eight played For Nico medved. BEFORE
21:14
Speaker 2: i could see him just also being their best player
21:16
Speaker 2: and being, like this guy's clearly a top thirty player
21:19
Speaker 2: in the league something like. THAT i do worry a
21:21
Speaker 2: little bit there looking through the. List Eric Dailey junior another.
21:26
Speaker 2: GUY i think he is probably top ten player in
21:30
Speaker 2: the league, upside if it all comes. Together he's a
21:33
Speaker 2: proven like he had a really good. Year he was
21:36
Speaker 2: the best on off numbers FOR. Ucla he's a foreign
21:38
Speaker 2: McDonald's All. AMERICAN i worry that we had him in
21:41
Speaker 2: the what like twenty. FIVE i could easily see him
21:45
Speaker 2: surpassing that by a long, shot especially IF ucla is
21:48
Speaker 2: as good as a lot of people expect it can.
21:50
Speaker 3: Be those are two big. ONES i would.
21:53
Speaker 1: Say the other thing THAT i look at just on first,
21:58
Speaker 1: glance AND i think one of these guys will end
22:00
Speaker 1: up being probably much better than the. Other we kind
22:03
Speaker 1: of grouped them together BECAUSE i don't know that we
22:06
Speaker 1: knew what exactly to do with them or how it
22:08
Speaker 1: was going to, work just because of the whole dynamic
22:10
Speaker 1: of both guys playing together at the same school last
22:12
Speaker 1: year and now they transferred to the same, school which
22:14
Speaker 1: is kind of. Weird Wesley yates And Desmond, CLAUDE i
22:18
Speaker 1: think looking back at, that the MORE i read About
22:26
Speaker 1: yates and MORE i FILM i watched on, him he
22:29
Speaker 1: to me seems to have the higher ceiling Than. Claude
22:33
Speaker 1: BUT i wonder just how that pairing is going to.
22:36
Speaker 1: Work and a lot of people are high On washington
22:40
Speaker 1: entering the. Season any thoughts on just that duo playing
22:44
Speaker 1: together and just the oddity of them ending up at
22:47
Speaker 1: the same school after kind of sharing the ball and
22:51
Speaker 1: some of the duties last year on A usc team
22:54
Speaker 1: that admittedly wasn't all that. SUCCESSFUL i know We yates
22:59
Speaker 1: started his, career was That washington so there's some familiarity
23:01
Speaker 1: there with him going, back but then For claude to
23:03
Speaker 1: go there. Too obviously it's An iolor and Revenue shaar
23:06
Speaker 1: related that they're both, there but it's just kind of
23:09
Speaker 1: an odd.
23:09
Speaker 2: Pairing, yeah IF i were in the portal looking for
23:14
Speaker 2: two GUARD i would have been way more interested In Wesley.
23:17
Speaker 2: Yates he's the younger, guy he's the guy who shoots,
23:19
Speaker 2: Threes he's the everything you want at the same, time
23:24
Speaker 2: if you leave them on the same, TEAM i don't
23:26
Speaker 2: know If yates is necessarily going to obviously have a
23:28
Speaker 2: better season Because claude is the, older more, experienced already
23:32
Speaker 2: higher usage, player and GENERALLY i Think washington. Could they're
23:38
Speaker 2: one of the harder teams to predict where they brought
23:40
Speaker 2: in a lot of guys that on paper look. GREAT
23:43
Speaker 2: i don't really have any idea how it's going to fit.
23:46
Speaker 2: Together there's just so many new, names so many new,
23:49
Speaker 2: pieces and clearly a program that needed all new.
23:52
Speaker 3: Pieces like that's great for.
23:53
Speaker 2: Them, Right they needed a complete, restart SO i think that's,
23:57
Speaker 2: Great but it feels like a lot of actual position,
24:01
Speaker 2: battles role battles that need to get sorted out for
24:04
Speaker 2: them WHERE i don't, know Is claude just a like
24:09
Speaker 2: scoring sixth. Man is he the starting point? Guard they
24:12
Speaker 2: have more of like past first point. Guards they Have Hans,
24:15
Speaker 2: steinbeck who's like a really useful big. Man they have
24:18
Speaker 2: all these different. PIECES i don't. KNOW i Like claude And.
24:22
Speaker 2: Yates they both were. PRODUCTIVE i think we Like yates upside.
24:26
Speaker 2: Better claude has probably a higher floor where he's just
24:28
Speaker 2: put up big numbers everywhere he's been in. College guys
24:31
Speaker 2: that do that play that, much shoot that much don't
24:33
Speaker 2: usually stop doing. That it's hard to kind of train
24:36
Speaker 2: that out of them unless they just don't. Play so
24:39
Speaker 2: it's interesting how it fits. Together it's a big year
24:41
Speaker 2: For Danny sprinkle just to just see how everything fits,
24:46
Speaker 2: there because last year he clearly didn't have. Enough this
24:48
Speaker 2: year he tried to make. SURE i think he didn't
24:52
Speaker 2: find himself in that spot. Again but what's it really
24:55
Speaker 2: looked like on the, Floor there's NO i don't think
24:57
Speaker 2: there's an obvious way how that team is gonna work
24:59
Speaker 2: in a way that maybe there are for some other.
25:00
Speaker 1: Teams, Yeah i'm unsure about like their, set like who
25:05
Speaker 1: plays the five for? Them and they were. REALLY i,
25:09
Speaker 1: mean obviously it's a it's a reset for, them but
25:12
Speaker 1: they were they were bad last, year so there's a
25:14
Speaker 1: lot of a lot of ground to make. Up they
25:16
Speaker 1: were uncompetitive a lot a lot of times late in
25:18
Speaker 1: the season, particularly but maybe that part of that was
25:21
Speaker 1: they had given. Up the other thing that was it's
25:23
Speaker 1: kind of interesting we don't have A Michigan state guy
25:25
Speaker 1: in the top twenty. Five we have fears down at twenty.
25:28
Speaker 1: Six we Have Cohen krt thirty, Two Jackson cole at thirty.
25:31
Speaker 1: Five maybe we were a little low On Jackson cole
25:33
Speaker 1: at thirty five because you look at his rebounding numbers
25:36
Speaker 1: last year was one of the better rebounders in all the.
25:39
Speaker 1: League he's coming. BACK i thought he took a significant
25:42
Speaker 1: step forward last. Year but not many years of doing
25:45
Speaker 1: this list THAT i can, remember maybe if, any that
25:48
Speaker 1: we didn't have A Michigan state player in the top twenty.
25:50
Speaker 1: Five is that indicative in your mind of A Michigan
25:53
Speaker 1: state team that's going to struggle this year or do
25:55
Speaker 1: you think it's just more going to be collective effort
26:01
Speaker 1: for them to be a solid and caa tournament team this,
26:05
Speaker 1: Year because you, know you can argue that maybe they
26:09
Speaker 1: deserve somebody, higher but based on what those three guys
26:12
Speaker 1: have accomplished to this, point and you know they've all
26:16
Speaker 1: been in college now for at least a couple of,
26:17
Speaker 1: years it's hard to, say at least right, now based
26:21
Speaker 1: on what we, know that they actually deserve to have
26:23
Speaker 1: anybody higher than Than fears at twenty.
26:25
Speaker 2: Six, yeah it's hard because last year they were the
26:31
Speaker 2: No Star Big ten. Team, obviously Like Jase richardson was a,
26:34
Speaker 2: pro but even he came off the bench most of
26:37
Speaker 2: the year and they won the league by three. Games
26:39
Speaker 2: so it's hard to translate that up a year where
26:43
Speaker 2: anyone returning on that team and all three guys are,
26:45
Speaker 2: returning wasn't in a position to be An All Big
26:48
Speaker 2: ten player last year because they didn't have to, Be
26:50
Speaker 2: and that didn't Mean Michigan state wasn't. GOOD i think
26:53
Speaker 2: that could probably be the best case among any That
26:56
Speaker 2: sometimes how we look at college basketball and the offseason
26:59
Speaker 2: is all wrong because we focus so much on the
27:01
Speaker 2: individuals and the like how many good players you've got
27:04
Speaker 2: in the portal or recruiting or whatever, Else when then
27:06
Speaker 2: it's just once they start playing, games you're looking At, oh,
27:10
Speaker 2: well this team can't, shoot this team turns it, over
27:12
Speaker 2: this team can. Rebound those aren't really the kind of
27:15
Speaker 2: levers that we look at in the. Offseason SO i
27:17
Speaker 2: think that's always a funny part where we go From,
27:20
Speaker 2: okay it's all about individual. Talent, okay, well this team can't,
27:24
Speaker 2: rebound this team can't, shoot this team has no. Spacing
27:27
Speaker 2: so it's just funny to how the lens. Shifts But Michigan,
27:31
Speaker 2: STATE i think they're in an interesting spot BECAUSE i
27:34
Speaker 2: don't know that there's really a case, that like someone
27:38
Speaker 2: on that roster is going to obviously be An All
27:40
Speaker 2: Big ten player just based on what the guys above
27:44
Speaker 2: them are gonna. Do Right, like even If Jeremy fears is,
27:47
Speaker 2: INCREDIBLE i doubt he's gonna put up better stats Than Donovan, dent, Right,
27:51
Speaker 2: like they're just not set up to have that sort
27:53
Speaker 2: of statistical. Production at the same, TIME i do think
27:55
Speaker 2: they'll still be one of the best defensive teams in
27:58
Speaker 2: The Big. TEN i think they'll be a really good
27:59
Speaker 2: reas bonding. Team but they definitely have some questions in
28:03
Speaker 2: a way that maybe THEY i don't. KNOW i don't
28:07
Speaker 2: like bigger holes BECAUSE i don't think they have as
28:10
Speaker 2: much obvious depth on paper this year as they did last,
28:13
Speaker 2: year and that turned out to really be their their sweet.
28:15
Speaker 2: Spot BUT i would say there's still they have three
28:18
Speaker 2: guys on the, list which puts them in the top
28:21
Speaker 2: half of, mentions right like the like there are a
28:25
Speaker 2: lot of. Teams the two teams with, zero there's four
28:29
Speaker 2: teams with, one there's three teams with, TWO i, believe
28:35
Speaker 2: SO i think seeing, that but the difference, is, like
28:38
Speaker 2: the average rank Of Michigan state's ranked players is lower
28:41
Speaker 2: than anyone else with, three, Right Like purdue has way
28:44
Speaker 2: higher average rank because they have one and.
28:46
Speaker 3: Two on the. List things like. That So Michigan, STATE
28:49
Speaker 3: i think.
28:51
Speaker 2: It's one of they're almost like you talked About wisconsin
28:54
Speaker 2: back in the. Day right on, paper it's easy to, say,
28:57
Speaker 2: well they don't have the, dudes they don't have, this
28:59
Speaker 2: they can't, shoot they can't do.
29:00
Speaker 3: That are you really going to bet against Tom izzo
29:04
Speaker 3: and year?
29:05
Speaker 2: Whatever this is not being decent at, LEAST i think
29:08
Speaker 2: it's hard to pull the plug all the.
29:10
Speaker 3: Way.
29:11
Speaker 1: Yeah the OTHER i, mean the other thing with them,
29:13
Speaker 1: IS i, mean none of those guys you look at
29:15
Speaker 1: as like a go to, scorer and a lot of
29:19
Speaker 1: times like how these postseason awards are given right or.
29:25
Speaker 1: WRONG i, mean it's hard to land on one of
29:28
Speaker 1: these lists if you're not like a you, know twelve
29:31
Speaker 1: thirteen to fourteen point per game. Score AND i don't
29:33
Speaker 1: know that any of those guys. ARE i, Mean i'm
29:34
Speaker 1: not saying that they couldn't do, it But fears is
29:38
Speaker 1: more wired to be a past first. Guy Cohen, carr
29:41
Speaker 1: there's obviously questions about he didn't start last, Year he's
29:44
Speaker 1: going to be in a different. Role is he going
29:45
Speaker 1: to be able to do anything besides score and transition
29:48
Speaker 1: and drive and dunk on?
29:50
Speaker 3: People is it? Right is?
29:52
Speaker 1: There is he going to be able to shoot for the?
29:54
Speaker 1: Perimeter And jackson Cole or is not someone you just
29:56
Speaker 1: tole the ball. Into you let them go to, work
29:57
Speaker 1: so they don't really have that obvious like to. Score to,
30:00
Speaker 1: me that's the thing that worries me about them the
30:03
Speaker 1: most is JUST i don't know who picks up that
30:07
Speaker 1: production that was At aikens last year And Jace richardson
30:11
Speaker 1: and they weren't even really a great offensive team much
30:13
Speaker 1: at they won games rebounding and defense and couldn't shoot
30:16
Speaker 1: threes last, Year SO i don't know if they've addressed
30:18
Speaker 1: that either the other team that our group of players.
30:22
Speaker 1: TEAM i just wanted to ask you about BECAUSE i
30:24
Speaker 1: really have no idea what to expect that maybe you
30:26
Speaker 1: have some Thoughts, illinois but there they've kind of doubled
30:31
Speaker 1: down on this international recruiting. Theme they've got some newcomers
30:37
Speaker 1: that we've got one on the list down at thirty Eight,
30:41
Speaker 1: petrovic and obviously they have both Of asch. Brothers Now
30:45
Speaker 1: Kylin boswell is. Back i'm trying to look who else
30:50
Speaker 1: aside Of. Soyakovich so they've got just what seems to
30:56
Speaker 1: be a pretty good amount of. TALENT i wonder how
30:59
Speaker 1: this works from a defensive. Perspective are they gonna just
31:02
Speaker 1: try to outscore? Teams and projecting all of these new
31:07
Speaker 1: pieces in this system was pretty hard for. ME i
31:11
Speaker 1: mean after A, VISITCH i, MEAN i thought you brought
31:14
Speaker 1: up you wrote The toyakovic right up for the top forty,
31:19
Speaker 1: lists and you brought up some good points just in
31:21
Speaker 1: terms OF i think his efficiency in acc games was pretty.
31:25
Speaker 1: POOR i, mean obviously he was on a really bad.
31:26
Speaker 1: Team he shot so, Yeah he's a guy that obviously
31:31
Speaker 1: had stats to put up and he was highly coveted
31:33
Speaker 1: in the. Portal but you, know if he does that,
31:36
Speaker 1: again he's not a top twenty, player so we're kind
31:37
Speaker 1: of betting on him to be better with other pieces surrounding.
31:40
Speaker 1: HIM i, mean just your overall thoughts on The illinois
31:43
Speaker 1: guys on the list and maybe how this all comes.
31:46
Speaker 1: Together are you as high as others are In. Illinois
31:49
Speaker 1: i've seen him picked anywhere from like three or four
31:51
Speaker 1: in the league to the middle of the. Pack it's
31:54
Speaker 1: it's hard to project what they're actually going to.
31:55
Speaker 2: BE i Think petrovich is the swing, piece AND i
32:01
Speaker 2: don't really have a great sense of like if you
32:04
Speaker 2: told me if he locked me in a room and
32:06
Speaker 2: let me out In february and told me he was
32:08
Speaker 2: the best point guard in The big ten or the,
32:10
Speaker 2: worst Like i'd probably be, like, OKAY i can see.
32:12
Speaker 2: THAT i don't really know how to translate this twenty
32:16
Speaker 2: two year old who like great box score numbers and
32:19
Speaker 2: everything playing For mega over there like.
32:23
Speaker 3: He could be.
32:24
Speaker 2: GREAT i don't think he's a, pro, Right he's not
32:27
Speaker 2: gonna Like he's not Like, kasparis where he's like a
32:30
Speaker 2: projected lottery. Pick is he better than these guys who
32:35
Speaker 2: have played point guard in college basketball for years and?
32:38
Speaker 2: Years is there an adjustment? Period it's the whole idea
32:43
Speaker 2: of these international kids coming over is really gonna be
32:46
Speaker 2: one of the fascinating things to. WATCH i think there
32:50
Speaker 2: will be a lot of people that write guys off By,
32:52
Speaker 2: thanksgiving Right, like there's gonna be some of these guys
32:54
Speaker 2: that come for, big high profile teams and they struggle,
32:57
Speaker 2: early but then those same.
33:00
Speaker 3: Might be great In February. March SO i think there
33:02
Speaker 3: is a.
33:03
Speaker 2: Transition Like Franz wagner was one of the best Players
33:07
Speaker 2: i've seen At michigan and Since i've been doing, this
33:10
Speaker 2: and he took basically a year to kind of just
33:12
Speaker 2: figure out how to Play big ten, basketball and now
33:17
Speaker 2: he's one of the best young stars in THE. Nba,
33:20
Speaker 2: Right so even like someone like that has a, year
33:22
Speaker 2: does that change if you're twenty, one twenty two years
33:25
Speaker 2: old like some of these guys. ARE i don't, Know
33:27
Speaker 2: but for, Me illinois is so reliant on the ball.
33:29
Speaker 2: Screen they really trust their guards to get them into that.
33:33
Speaker 2: Stuff And boswell is a really nice, player great, defender
33:36
Speaker 2: BUT i don't really trust him as just like being
33:39
Speaker 2: the guy to play that, role as LIKE dp point,
33:42
Speaker 2: guard and that's WHERE i Think petrovic he's brought in
33:45
Speaker 2: to do. THAT i don't think he was really on
33:46
Speaker 2: campus even most of the, offseason so who knows what
33:50
Speaker 2: that looks like early in the. Year but that's the whole, thing,
33:53
Speaker 2: RIGHT i think great spot to be a ballscreen point
33:56
Speaker 2: guard with a pick and pop big that shoots, threes
33:59
Speaker 2: can finish like it all works If petrovich is.
34:02
Speaker 3: GOOD i don't.
34:04
Speaker 2: KNOW i have no idea where he should be ranked
34:06
Speaker 2: on this. LIST i think we just kind of threw
34:08
Speaker 2: him in the back third of it and hope for the.
34:11
Speaker 3: Best but it could be. Anywhere it really could. Be.
34:13
Speaker 1: YEAH i, Mean i've started to go through these big
34:15
Speaker 1: ten previews THAT i publish a run inside The hall
34:19
Speaker 1: And Penn state was the first one, today and they
34:22
Speaker 1: even they've got a bunch of international. Guys so it's
34:25
Speaker 1: it's not Just. Illinois it's a lot of programs are,
34:29
Speaker 1: RIGHT a lot of programs are beginning to rely on.
34:32
Speaker 1: This and in terms of trying to rank the, players
34:36
Speaker 1: it was hard enough with the, portal and now you've got.
34:39
Speaker 1: Guys when we're watching various levels of film from, overseas
34:44
Speaker 1: it's hard to there's so many different levels of basketball
34:48
Speaker 1: internationally that if a guy's averaging twenty but it's a
34:52
Speaker 1: third tier pro, league that's a lot different THAN i
34:54
Speaker 1: got playing and you, know obviously the highest leagues In
34:57
Speaker 1: europe and being. Productive so that's kind of where we
35:00
Speaker 1: run into the issue with some of these. Guys but
35:03
Speaker 1: the last THING i wanted to just ask you about
35:07
Speaker 1: was The michigan guys on the, list because obviously you Cover.
35:09
Speaker 1: MICHIGAN i don't think either one of us had much
35:13
Speaker 1: of a issue with With lindenborg at number three going
35:21
Speaker 1: down To Morris Johnson, ademara and we also Had elliott
35:25
Speaker 1: could do on the list any of THE i guess
35:29
Speaker 1: two part question of those Four michigan, guys which one
35:32
Speaker 1: do you think has the best chance to outperform in
35:34
Speaker 1: their ranking and which guy of the four maybe has
35:38
Speaker 1: the biggest bus.
35:39
Speaker 2: Potential So Elliott kado is The petrovitch in this situation
35:46
Speaker 2: WHERE i think he could go in any. Direction clearly,
35:49
Speaker 2: talented clearly a great, Passer clearly has a role that
35:53
Speaker 2: he needs to play like he's gonna have the. Ball
35:57
Speaker 2: he's gonna Be michigan's starting point. Guard he's going to
35:59
Speaker 2: be to be the main ball screen. Guy like that's
36:02
Speaker 2: all locked. IN i think he's had his struggles with,
36:06
Speaker 2: turnovers with. Consistency he's kind of scapegoaded for unc season last.
36:12
Speaker 2: Year he's the big swing piece in terms of just
36:16
Speaker 2: how good he actually, IS i, think and a hard
36:19
Speaker 2: one to. Project, again there's a lot of guys in
36:22
Speaker 2: the thirties that they could just swing either way by a,
36:25
Speaker 2: LOT i would, say and he fits in that same
36:28
Speaker 2: kind of category for. Me so if he has the
36:31
Speaker 2: biggest bus potential, potentially but you could say, ALSO i
36:35
Speaker 2: think he has a high floor in terms of he's
36:38
Speaker 2: going to get the. OPPORTUNITIES i don't think There's michigan
36:40
Speaker 2: doesn't really have a clear backup point. Guard so it's
36:43
Speaker 2: like It's cado Or Bus like he's he might be
36:46
Speaker 2: the biggest reason That michigan could bust based on their preseason,
36:49
Speaker 2: expectations or if it, works does he make it look
36:52
Speaker 2: like a genius for plucking a guy who was basically
36:57
Speaker 2: kind of entirely blamed for a Blue blood season going
37:00
Speaker 2: poorly despite the fact that he was a past first point.
37:02
Speaker 3: Guard on a team with No.
37:03
Speaker 2: Biggs LENDEBORG i think is just so productive box score, Wise,
37:10
Speaker 2: LIKE i think he fits pretty nicely in. There whatever
37:13
Speaker 2: his role ends up, being he's gonna get a ton of, rebounds, points, assist, steals,
37:17
Speaker 2: Blocks like that's just what he's done his whole. Career
37:20
Speaker 2: the guys that are really tough for, Me and it's,
37:23
Speaker 2: Honestly michigan's a hard team to predict because they're setting
37:27
Speaker 2: up to be deeper than they've been in a long,
37:30
Speaker 2: TIME i would, Say and there's just a lot of
37:32
Speaker 2: guys on the roster that you look at them and you're, saying,
37:34
Speaker 2: well they're gonna, play they're gonna play a real fifteen
37:38
Speaker 2: to twenty five twenty minute. Role but when you get
37:41
Speaker 2: down to eight nine guys in that, bucket it's it
37:44
Speaker 2: becomes hard to for anyone to have a great year
37:46
Speaker 2: statistically because you're looking at kind of like A Michigan
37:49
Speaker 2: state team last, year AND i think A daimara And Moras,
37:52
Speaker 2: johnson if they were the only five On michigan's, roster
37:57
Speaker 2: you've raised them up higher on the. List, instead they're
38:00
Speaker 2: gonna be in this split situation where they split the
38:04
Speaker 2: minutes at the, five maybe play together, some but even
38:07
Speaker 2: that is limited by the fact That, yaxel the most
38:10
Speaker 2: high profile transfer in the, league basically is gonna mostly
38:14
Speaker 2: play the. Four so there's this minutes crunch. In it's
38:17
Speaker 2: hard to really see how it shakes. OUT i think
38:20
Speaker 2: from a team, Perspective michigan probably feels great about, that,
38:24
Speaker 2: Right like if your big man only has to play
38:26
Speaker 2: twenty two minutes a game and play them hard as
38:28
Speaker 2: hell and is extremely, productive like that's a great.
38:31
Speaker 3: Recipe Michigan state just prove that. Right they, Dominate they
38:34
Speaker 3: wore teams. DOWN i.
38:35
Speaker 2: THINK i think that's What michigan wants to. Do michigan's
38:39
Speaker 2: guards are the same. WAY i Think Namari, Burnette Roddy,
38:43
Speaker 2: Gale trey, McKenney. Lj, cason these guys are all gonna
38:47
Speaker 2: play rotation. Roles it's gonna be hard for any one
38:50
Speaker 2: of them to average double figures and it's just gonna
38:53
Speaker 2: be an INTERESTING.
38:56
Speaker 3: I don't know.
38:57
Speaker 2: Personally LIKE i started this like covering on bline, teams
39:01
Speaker 2: he was very MUCH i want seven and a half
39:03
Speaker 2: guys in my. Rotation everyone plays a. Role get as
39:06
Speaker 2: many minutes with your. STARTERS i don't really think that's
39:09
Speaker 2: What michigan's going to, be and it makes it hard
39:11
Speaker 2: to rank any other guys on.
39:14
Speaker 3: A list like this based on.
39:15
Speaker 2: That, right if someone, struggles someone else could take their,
39:18
Speaker 2: spot and it's kind of like that up and down
39:20
Speaker 2: the roster.
39:22
Speaker 1: As dusty may ever done that though in terms of
39:24
Speaker 1: playing that many, guys BECAUSE i feel, like, yeah every
39:27
Speaker 1: coach talks in the, PRESEASON i want to play nine
39:30
Speaker 1: or ten, guys but do they actually do it when
39:32
Speaker 1: IT i can see doing it In, november but when
39:36
Speaker 1: you get into Like february and you're trying to win
39:38
Speaker 1: The Big, ten historically don't most teams go to seven
39:43
Speaker 1: or eight when it really.
39:44
Speaker 2: Matters, Yeah so it's interesting Because dusty has done that
39:49
Speaker 2: his final four team AT. FAU i think they were
39:52
Speaker 2: ranked like top twenty in bench, minutes and they had
39:56
Speaker 2: a similar guard rotation where Obviously JOHN. L davis And
40:01
Speaker 2: Elijah martin were the best players on that, team but
40:03
Speaker 2: they actually came off the bench all out of the
40:05
Speaker 2: year because they missed a couple of games and they
40:08
Speaker 2: were on a winning. Streak they had kind of this
40:11
Speaker 2: rotation of four other guards that they just played twenty
40:14
Speaker 2: five minutes a, game and it does feel like that's
40:17
Speaker 2: What dusty is going to kind of aim to do
40:20
Speaker 2: with this. Roster and even early last, Year michigan kind
40:24
Speaker 2: of started out playing that, way Like Sam walter's in the,
40:28
Speaker 2: rotation all these guys who kind of fell out or
40:31
Speaker 2: left the, team even for various reasons throughout the, year
40:34
Speaker 2: there were, injuries it just kind of never got to that,
40:37
Speaker 2: point and by the end of the year they were
40:39
Speaker 2: playing six guys essentially late in the, season six to seven,
40:43
Speaker 2: guys and that's not really WHAT i think he wanted to,
40:46
Speaker 2: Do SO i do think he'll aspire to get back to,
40:50
Speaker 2: that AND i think he's shown in the past that
40:53
Speaker 2: he's willing to play that. Way AND i think that's
40:57
Speaker 2: probably what you would Say michigan will try to, do
41:00
Speaker 2: especially just based on how much it's not just that
41:04
Speaker 2: there's depth of, talent it's that there's not separation of, talent, Right,
41:07
Speaker 2: like everyone is a LIKE i could see an argument
41:12
Speaker 2: for a good, player but there's no one that obviously
41:14
Speaker 2: should play ten minutes more than the, rest, Right, like
41:17
Speaker 2: everyone's kind of just so close to each other in
41:19
Speaker 2: that middle.
41:19
Speaker 1: Ground, WELL i said last thing before, that BUT i
41:24
Speaker 1: didn't want to ask you one more thing Because indiana,
41:26
Speaker 1: Fans i'm SURE i want to hear your thoughts going
41:29
Speaker 1: From Mike woodson To Darren. Devrees how much of a
41:35
Speaker 1: change you think it's going to Be frye? Basketball and
41:37
Speaker 1: do you think it's going to be a much better
41:39
Speaker 1: product in terms of what you see on the floor
41:41
Speaker 1: from a basketball.
41:41
Speaker 2: PERSPECTIVE i think it's hard to not be better than
41:47
Speaker 2: kind of what the last couple of years, Were SO
41:49
Speaker 2: i think that's a low. BAR i think the, bar
41:51
Speaker 2: so let's set the bar higher than slightly better basketball
41:54
Speaker 2: than whatever the last two calendar years showed.
41:57
Speaker 3: Us devrees is.
41:59
Speaker 2: Interesting BECAUSE i think he has a pretty solid track,
42:03
Speaker 2: record But i'm not really sure he has this sort
42:07
Speaker 2: Of it's not LIKE i think of him playing a
42:10
Speaker 2: super unique style of. Basketball it's not like A bucky
42:13
Speaker 2: McMillan or whatever At TEXAS a AND m where they're
42:15
Speaker 2: gonna do something. CRAZY i think it's just going to be, modern,
42:19
Speaker 2: consistent like normal, coach and that's that's progress because Whatever
42:23
Speaker 2: indiana was doing before it wasn't. THAT i think it's
42:26
Speaker 2: just gonna be interesting to see how how it scales, up.
42:30
Speaker 2: RIGHT i think we saw what he did At drake
42:33
Speaker 2: and it was really. Good The West virginia seasons just
42:36
Speaker 2: seems sort of like a wash for a lot of
42:38
Speaker 2: weight reasons with the injury and everything. Else this year
42:42
Speaker 2: feels kind of like A Bridge yere on paper Where
42:45
Speaker 2: i'm not completely sure, that like it's not the most
42:49
Speaker 2: talented roster he's gonna have It indiana or anything like.
42:51
Speaker 2: That he didn't go out and Spend Pat kelsey money
42:55
Speaker 2: in the portal will just like highest high, profile high,
42:58
Speaker 2: profile high. PROFILE i think it's a team that should
43:01
Speaker 2: be in THE ncaa. Tournament AND i think if you're a,
43:05
Speaker 2: coach you look at that and you, Say, OKAY i
43:06
Speaker 2: want a team like that every year and then build off.
43:09
Speaker 3: That SO i think it's a good reset of the.
43:11
Speaker 2: Foundation i'm really curious how the kind of low and
43:15
Speaker 2: mid major guards coming in perform for that at that
43:19
Speaker 2: level because a lot of people in the league went
43:23
Speaker 2: bigger splash right like they went and got guys who
43:26
Speaker 2: were all league type of guys at higher. Levels So
43:29
Speaker 2: i'm curious Does indian have enough? There but, also Like
43:33
Speaker 2: tucker is a proven big time. SCORE i think that's
43:36
Speaker 2: gonna it's kind of going overlooked because of the. Injury
43:39
Speaker 2: but if he's, HEALTHY i think that really sets a
43:41
Speaker 2: floor for the season that is pretty.
43:43
Speaker 1: SOLID i always enjoyed the conversation is. DOING i know
43:48
Speaker 1: we're gearing, up but less than two months before the
43:50
Speaker 1: start of hoop. SEASON i know we talk pretty much every,
43:53
Speaker 1: day AND i know in Like april Or, may we're
43:56
Speaker 1: wondering if the season's ever gonna well for is the
44:00
Speaker 1: portal ever gonna? Close and is the portal work ever gonna?
44:03
Speaker 1: Stop and when's the season gonna be? Here but it's
44:06
Speaker 1: not too far, off AND i know you'll be ramping
44:08
Speaker 1: things up soon at you and. Poops hopefully we'll get the.
44:11
Speaker 1: UH i don't want to put you on the, spot
44:13
Speaker 1: But i'm crossing my fingers at the. Podcast we'll be back. Out,
44:18
Speaker 1: okay sounds. Good Thanks thanks, Again del for coming. On
44:22
Speaker 1: always enjoy the. Conversations it's it's crazy we've been doing
44:25
Speaker 1: this for thirteen. YEARS i don't know if we have
44:27
Speaker 1: a thirteen more in us of ranking the Top big ten,
44:30
Speaker 1: players but we'll be here writing About big ten Basketball,
44:34
Speaker 1: Indiana michigan as long as our audience will have, us
44:36
Speaker 1: so thanks for the continued. Support thanks, everybody as always
44:40
Speaker 1: for listening To podcasts on The. Brink AS i, said
44:42
Speaker 1: the top unity of the. Show please, lease use, rating
44:44
Speaker 1: and review over On Apple podcasts Or, spotify and we'll
44:47
Speaker 1: be back soon with another episode of podcast on The
44:49
Speaker 1: break