Latest / Galaxies and Goddesses: A Sci-Fi & Fantasy Bookcast / Hope, Harmony, and Reflection: A Psalm for the Wild-Built by Becky Chambers
Transcript
- Andrea: I’m Andrea. Elizabeth: And I'm Elizabeth. Andrea: Join us as we chat about sci-fi and fantasy books and beyond. Elizabeth: Looking for a little escape from reality? So are we. Andrea: Welcome to Galaxies and Goddesses. Elizabeth: On this week's episode, we're talking about the novella Psalm for the Wild-Built by Becky Chambers. Andrea: We'll talk about how, although it's set in a completely new world the concepts and struggles of everyday life are still extremely relatable. Elizabeth: We'll also talk about the idea of utopia and hope within a sci-fi world. Andrea: Let's get started. Andrea: I've heard this book described as solarpunk. Have you ever heard of that genre before, Elizabeth? Elizabeth: That is not a term that I've ever heard of before. Andrea: According to Wikipedia, solarpunk is a literary, artistic, and social movement. Closely related to “hope punk” movement that envisions and works towards actualizing a sustainable future interconnected with nature and community. The “solar” represents solar energy as a renewable energy source and an optimistic vision of the future that rejects climate doomerism. The “punk” refers to do it yourself and counterculture, post-capitalist, and sometimes decolonial aspects of creating such a future. I would not have guessed that's what solarpunk meant without looking that up. Elizabeth: Whoa. That was very detailed. Andrea: Yes. That’s from Wikipedia. Elizabeth: That is very specific and niche it seems like. Andrea: Yes. Elizabeth: But it does describe this book perfectly at the same time. Andrea: This was a reread for me, so this is the second time I was reading this book, and I'm really excited to hear what you thought of it Elizabeth. Elizabeth: I really liked it. It defies description almost. It's a real art when an author can create so much within so few words. Elizabeth: To present this well realized world in 150 pages is really an art. Andrea: It was impressive. Elizabeth: And I think it does speak to a strong imagination and a good writer. So many deep philosophical questions within this world. Elizabeth: I thought was really interesting. Elizabeth: It feels light, not only in the fact that it is small, is only 147 pages or something. But also the prose and the feel, the vibe of the story, is light. This hopeful aspect to it. Andrea: The definition of solarpunk being an environmental sustainable future is tied in a lot to the moon that they live on, Panga, it's divided in half between the area left for natural habitat versus the land for humans. Elizabeth: It's almost like a national park or something, for the robots. Andrea: Yes. Andrea: And all the other creatures too. Elizabeth: Like the wild, including the robots. One of my favorite sort of weird Britishisms, the term in the UK or in England for a National Park. Elizabeth: In the UK, instead of them being called National Parks, they're an area of outstanding natural beauty, AONB. So it's shortened to just AONB, it’s one thing between British English and American English is that oftentimes American English, we have a way of saying something that's more concise. Elizabeth: And yeah. That's a good one. Areas of Outstanding Natural Beauty. Anyway, side tangent. Andrea: There's this sort of idea of a respectful separation between nature and humans, but also that nature and technology work together. Humans are no longer mining precious metals or drilling for oil, that human and mankind works in harmony with nature to build bricks out of mycelium and other natural resources that can be regenerated. Andrea: I thought that was just really interesting and there wasn't a whole chapter on world building. It's just mentioned in a few different ways that you get a sense for how this world is built. Elizabeth: That is something that I really respect. Through our Galaxies and Goddesses journey together, the more I think about sci-fi and fantasy and what I like out of sci-fi and fantasy. I like the book like this. That can so simply and without beating you over the head with it can create this world… Andrea: Mm-hmm. Elizabeth: That is so well realized. Elizabeth: That is I think also part of the art. Andrea: Yeah. The setting is really hopeful in that we're working with the environment in a sustainable, respectful, ecological way. Andrea: And then also the way that people treat each other is vastly different than what you would see in a modern social context. So there were so many situations where it could have been a negative outcome, right? Like someone's leaving their job and you expect the boss to like not be very nice. But instead, when Sibling Dex decides to leave the monastery, their boss is like, “Okay, what do you need? How can I help you? What resources can I give you?” And that's not what you would expect in our world. Elizabeth: Yeah. Andrea: And I just found the main character Sibling Dex, to be extremely relatable. This idea of, it's not necessarily mentioned as burnout, but this longing for something else. They're unsatisfied or dissatisfied with their current life. Elizabeth: Yeah. This like sense of restlessness. Elizabeth: Their current situation isn't quite right. trying to figure out, these questions of identity. Who am I? Where do I belong? How do I fit into this society? How can I be productive and part of it? That I think does resonate to a lot of people, a lot of the time of your life honestly. Andrea: I made a little list of all the things that I thought were relatable, like the on the job trading disaster. That's not too much of a spoiler. But in the beginning of the book, when they decide to leave their job and they're like, I'm going to do this thing, I'm gonna be a tea monk, and they set up their table and serve their first cup of tea and it doesn't go so well. Andrea: And it's like, I think the first time you try anything, it’s probably not gonna go very well, but the next chapter skips ahead two years into their career or their new path and they're now the most well renowned in the field of traveling tea monks. And so I like that idea of growth and that is another example of hope that you might mess up initially trying something new, but give it time and practice. And a lot of things take time. Elizabeth: Yeah. Andrea: I also liked how the main character was mentioned to be 29 years old. So, instead of following around an 18-year-old girl. We have a non-binary 29-year-old main character that feels relatable to both men and women, while still being their own unique identity. Andrea: I think everybody can relate to this main character and I really liked that. What did you think about that? Elizabeth: Yeah, for sure. Elizabeth: I would hope that as time goes on, that there is more and more people not paying attention to the gender or the name of the author. Elizabeth: Like the name of the author that might be more traditionally cis female or cis male, for example, like Becky Chambers. Becky is a traditionally female name, so I would hope that wouldn't prevent a cisgender men on the spectrum from reading it because I feel like it does feel very non-gendered, which is cool. Elizabeth: I think that's a really cool aspect of it actually. Andrea: Initially, when I read this. I don't remember when I realized that Sibling Dex was a pronoun, right? Because there's Brothers and Sisters and Siblings. So Sibling is neither Brother or Sister. Elizabeth: Oh yeah. Andrea: And I don't think I realized that in the beginning of the book. Andrea: But reading it a second time, I was like oh, it clicked. It wasn't a job description or a level in society. It was their pronoun in a sense, or an alternative to Brother or Sister, Sibling. Elizabeth: A non-gendered term for a… Andrea: A religious person. Elizabeth: Of course I see what you're saying. The religious term of it. Totally. Andrea: Yes. Elizabeth: I've been doing Spanish on Duolingo and realizing that so many of the terms for groups of people that are similar, has a male gender to it, right? So like padres, abuelos, hermanos, like your brothers, your parents, your grandparents. Elizabeth: It's always like the male, the plural for the male term. Making you realize differences between languages that in English, usually the term for something like that, a group of similar people is going to be gender neutral. So like siblings, like usually we'll use the term siblings when you're referring to plural sibling. Elizabeth: You don’t always talk about, oh, this is my sibling. Andrea: Yeah. Elizabeth: Yeah. But of course there is the singular sibling. So we have these terms that are gender neutral. But going back to your point of Brother Dex, Sister Dex, versus Sibling Dex, I did not put that together. Elizabeth: Now that you say that you're absolutely right. That's cool. I didn't think about that. Andrea: The next one I had on the list was that the main character talks quite frequently about their quality of sleep. I feel like people don't write about it or I don't read that often in fantasy and sci-fi books, but it's true that it has such an impact on your outlook on the day and how you feel the rest of the day. Andrea: And I felt like the fact that it was mentioned multiple times, like how they're sleeping and what their bed is like, I could relate to this. Did that stand out at all? Elizabeth: No. Andrea: No? Elizabeth: Not at all. That didn’t… Andrea: No? Elizabeth: Stand out at all! Andrea: Okay. Maybe I'm not getting enough sleep. Maybe that's just me. Elizabeth: Oh, sorry, Andrea, but I sleep very well and… Andrea: Oh. Elizabeth: I almost always sleep well and I can sleep a very long time. Andrea: That's a good thing! That's great! Elizabeth: Yeah. It’s great. It's my family's superpower because a lot of my family members can sleep pretty well. Elizabeth: Occasionally, there has to be something pretty remarkable and then not sleeping as well. Andrea: If I get a good night's sleep I tend to have a better day. The nights when I don't get a good night sleep because of the kids or the dog, just so many things that could interrupt your sleep. Andrea: I just felt like that was really relatable and not many books talk about that. Andrea: The big question throughout the book, I don't think this is giving anything away. But it's like asking, what do you need? The main character feels like they're lacking something and they're trying so hard to find it. Andrea: The grass is always greener on the other side. And it's like there's always that feel that you need to like justify something to yourself or if you're not satisfied you can find it outside of yourself. It is more about looking within sometimes or taking a break. That it's okay to take a break. It didn't strike me the first time I read it, but reading this again, when I saw the dedication “for anybody who could use a break”, it's just so nice. When this book is described as a hug of a book, that line is a little bit of a hug. Andrea: It's permission to take a break, read this book, and forget about what else is going on in your life just follow this tea monk, while they help other people feel at ease, and maybe have a cup of tea while you do it. It's just a nice little break. Andrea: The first time I read this, when I finished it, I was like, oh, is that it? Andrea: Like it's over? I want more. Luckily there is a second book, but it still says everything. It needs to, even though it's short, it has a very good message, in those short pages. Elizabeth: Yeah, I could see how it could turn into more. Would more be better? Andrea: It’s different. Andrea: It's different questions. I think this could easily be a standalone. After you read this, you want a little bit more. And now it is published as one like novel. They've published it more recently in paperback with the two stories together. Andrea: I did read this in a day. I tried to draw it out, be like, oh, maybe I'll just have a little bit each day. And I was like, no I wanted to read it and I just finished it. Elizabeth: Yeah, I definitely read it in less than 24 hours, so it wasn't all in one single day, one calendar day, but it was within 24 hours for sure. Would I read it again? Maybe I'll have to think about that, but sometimes some books surprise you in the ones that stick and the ones that stay. Elizabeth: There are those that you know are going to stick as you're reading it, and then others that stick with you whether you mean for it to or not. This could maybe stick with me. Maybe I'd come back to it actually. Would I read the second one? Definitely. Andrea: I've heard of this referred to as a utopia, and utopia literally means no place. Andrea: Like the idea is that utopia could never exist. But I think this really does sound like a utopia and because it does sound kind of perfect in a way. Except there's the issue of all the robots left. So some people would say that sounds like opposite of utopia, not being able to have all the technology around you. Andrea: Maybe utopia is subjective. Elizabeth: That's probably true, of what each individual person's definition of utopia would be. It's also post apocalyptic almost, because the whole idea is that robots were built then the robots decided to quit. Andrea: That’s something we haven’t talked about yet, robots. Elizabeth: Yeah! Robots! Andrea: They gained enough sentience to say, “Hey, I don't wanna clean your floors or work in your factories anymore. We're leaving.” Elizabeth: Or be your butler or… Andrea: Right, or drive your car. Elizabeth: Clean for you, or do all the dirty jobs. Andrea: Yeah. Elizabeth: Which, in our current times where robots are still being built and developed, this seems compared to what our world is. It does seem post-apocalyptic. Elizabeth: One thing that I found interesting about this book is it made me ask questions of, “what does it mean to be sentient?” Elizabeth: And probably part of the reason is because just after I finished Psalm for the Wild Built I then started reading Fuzz: When Nature Breaks the Law by Mary Roach. What's fun about Mary Roach's books, I've read two others of hers. She writes nonfiction science instead of science fiction. Her writing style is quirky and funny and she'll have tangents or wormholes that she goes on as she's researching these topics and finds these funny little side stories. Elizabeth: And then she'll often put 'em in these footnotes. I read Fuzz immediately after A Psalm for the Wild-built and the book made me think more about the previous book, because one of the footnotes in Fuzz was describing what sentient means. It says by definition of New Zealand's Animal Welfare Act “sentient applies to any animal with a nervous system that can relay stimuli from sensors around the body to the brain, a brain advanced enough to translate those signals into perceived sensations. That means all vertebrates plus octopus, squid, crab, and lobster. Elizabeth: But not, I'm relieved to report: oysters.” This is, once again, the New Zealand Animal Welfare Act describes it this way. And especially with like artificial intelligence, the way that it's going in our society these days that at what point does something become sentient and could you argue that the robot in the story is sentient? I mean, the robot doesn't have a brain as far as I know. Andrea: Well, it has a way of processing information and a logic system. Elizabeth: Relaying the stimuli from sensors, to the central processing unit, and then translating those signals into perceived sensations. I guess that's maybe hard 'cause you know, do they touch, do they feel, but you would have to be able to adjust the amount of fine motor strength used in order to have something like a claw or a hand to grasp. So does that mean that then a robot, or are these robots sentient? Andrea: I think there definitely exist sentient robots in our world today. You could almost say that a self-driving car is sentient 'cause it has sensors and it gets information through cameras to know about its surroundings. Those are all types of sensors. Andrea: So I think we're definitely within the realm of robot sentience. Can you imagine if you got into your car though and your car said “No, I'm not gonna drive for you today”. Like, Nope. Elizabeth: The vibes are off. Andrea: You need a shower. I will drive you where you wanna go after you go back inside and take a shower. Elizabeth: But first, before I drive you through the drive through, you have to take a shower because you smell so bad that if you stay inside me for long enough, there will be a lingering smell. Andrea: Yeah. Can you imagine? So maybe that's the point where it is sentient, where it can debate you. So maybe we're not at sentience yet. Elizabeth: But definitely, the robot in Psalm for the Wild-built, is definitely sentient. Elizabeth: This takes place before the action of the book. The plot of the book. But presumably in history, the robots gained enough to sentience to say, no, we're not going to do that anymore. Andrea: Right. Andrea: That's what it's called the transition. So there's talked about like pre-transition era is what existed before the robots left. Andrea: Like, yeah, it's just such a short book, but there's so many big ideas and it's just so fun to think about because it is relatable and it feels like, not that this could be our world necessarily, but you could easily see it happening in a world, right? Andrea: Like that there is Panga out there, a moon surrounding another planet inhabited in this way. It feels like a window into another world and that's why I love reading sci-fi books. This type of book makes me excited to read more sci-fi. Elizabeth: Yeah. Andrea: And so, if you like this book I would say definitely check out some of Becky Chambers' other work. Andrea: The Long Way to a Small Angry Planet, takes place in space. It's big on found family and adventure, and was a really fun read. I was at Powell's books in Portland, Oregon, and I saw it on a “if you liked this, you may like this” shelf. And I was like, well, I liked that book. And I've also read another book by Becky Chambers I really like, so I should pick that up. Andrea: I read it. I really liked it, and I haven't read any of the rest of the series. But I'd like to, so I think there's a couple books in the series. Elizabeth: And that’s what she won the Hugo Award for. She won the Hugo award for the Wayfayer series and the Hugo Award for A Psalm for the Wild-built. Elizabeth: Because I have not read that many books off of the Hugo list, so I was like, well, I got another one. Elizabeth: Solarpunk. So I mean, are there other solarpunk books? It's just so specific. Andrea: Very specific. Elizabeth: So specific. Andrea: But it is nice to read a book that's so hopeful and a positive in a time when we really need more of that. Elizabeth: Yeah. Elizabeth: What is it? Seth Myers has a series called That's the Kind of Story We Need Right Now. And that is the kind of story we need right now. Andrea: Psalm for The Wild Built was actually recommended to me by a bookseller. I was at a local indie bookstore and I was just looking for something that was new to me and they recommended this and it's funny because in a sense that's very similar to the journey that Sibling Dex is on. They're just looking for something new and that's what I was looking for too. Work was stressful and it was nice to have a break. So, I'm so glad they recommended this. Who would you recommend this book to Elizabeth? Is there like a type of person or a point in someone's life where you would recommend that they should read this? Elizabeth: I would not hesitate to recommend it to the average reader. If you like reading good books. You don't have to be into sci-fi and fantasy, then I would suggest you read it. Sometimes if people aren't really into science fiction and fantasy, and then you try to recommend a sci-fi/fantasy book to them, it's always kind of like, are they gonna like it? Sometimes books can be, heavy handed with the science fiction and the fantasy, whereas this did not feel that way at all. It felt almost sort of timeless and I think that adds also to that sort of sense of lightness. Elizabeth: Like it doesn't have a lot of, I don't wanna say baggage, but it just feels so light and not heavy handed at all with sci-fi/fantasy kind of stuff. And with these questions that are so deep questions of utopia and hope and all the things we've been talking about you know, who am I and where do I fit in this world and looking for something new. Elizabeth: So, you know, I suppose if, if somebody is not a big, reader and they seem in that part of their life, I probably would recommend that, to them, even if they weren't a big reader. For sure. Andrea: I don't think you have to be a sci-fi or fantasy reader to enjoy this book. Elizabeth: No. Absolutely. To make that clear, I think this is a book that transcends the genre if you're into reading good books I think you should read this book. Andrea: Do you think your sister would read this or do you think she's already read it? Elizabeth: No, my sister has not read this. I can guarantee that and my sister should read it for sure. I think my sister will like it. Andrea: But yeah, I think you could pretty safely recommend this book to a lot of people. I think one of the things that might be a little bit of a trigger warning type thing is the casual sex. I think it came up once in this book. It comes up in the second book again. And I don't think that every reader is gonna be okay with that. Andrea: But I liked the idea that that wasn't a moral issue. It's just something that humans do and everybody likes to do it occasionally. So let's not stigmatize it. Let's not vilify it. Even though this person is part of a religious order, it is not against their creed. Andrea: Could you see this more as a TV show, mini-series, or movie? What format, if this were to be made into some type of adaptation do you think would fit this the best? Elizabeth: Probably could do well as a movie. I feel like with a lot of the world building, it could be done relatively easily, visually, so then you, it you wouldn't require time to explain things or have specific action sequences. You could have a lot of the world building through the set and the production and then the story itself feels like, that could easily be a couple of hours. Andrea: Yeah. Andrea: But I could see it being like an HBO series, where it's a lot of kinda cinematography and seeing these different habitats they've created like the village in the trees. Each episode could go to a different community or setting or even do like a flashback episode to when Sibling Dex is growing up. Andrea: I think it could be really cool, but you needed the right people to support it. Andrea: It'd be nice to have something longer than a movie. Something you could come back to every week for a couple of weeks that'd be really nice to just draw it out a little bit and instead of like an hour where you're trying to pack in the whole story, like just, just let it be a little bit relaxing, have a lot of birds and nature and just relax a little bit. Elizabeth: Birds! Andrea: Yes. Elizabeth: Yeah. Andrea: That’d be quite lovely. Elizabeth: Yeah. And there could always be more character development. You could get involved with different kinds of characters in all these various villages and places that Sibling Dex travels to. And absolutely there could be, the post apocalyptic stuff. Elizabeth: So then you could do the flashbacks. Andrea: They were born after the transition, so I don't know if the pre-transition era stuff would even be covered in a flashback. Elizabeth: TV show creators could probably find a way to create those sorts of backstories. Andrea: Mm-hmm. Elizabeth: And of course there's always like creative license that they could, compress the timeline and have it more like oh, my grandparents lived during the pre-transition. Maybe a limited series. I suppose it probably could be stretched out to a limited series. But as far as the action within the story, the actual story that's actively taking place in the book, maybe there'd be enough for five or six episodes. Andrea: Mm-hmm. Andrea: What would you rate this book, Elizabeth? How many stars would you give it? Elizabeth: I'd give it four stars. Andrea: Okay. Elizabeth: ‘Cause, once again my sort of five star rating. I think I've said before that like a five star book would be unqualified recommendation to anyone, and once again, like even though if my mom gave it a chance, she might like it, but I know she's not gonna read it. It’s got a cartoon robot on the cover. Andrea: Maybe she should give it a chance. I think she should give it a chance. Andrea: The first time I read this, I gave it a four star rating. Elizabeth: Yeah. Andrea: But it has been the type of book that stuck with me. I keep thinking about it and then reading it a second time, I got more out of it. Andrea: I upped my rating to a five star rating. Elizabeth: Ooooh! All right. Andrea: It was as good as I thought the first time and then some. Andrea: And the second time reading this, I felt like I could see a little bit more of maybe the author's experience, particularly when they talked about setting up a table and waiting for people to come for their first tea ceremony type event. Elizabeth: For a cuppa. Andrea: Yes. Andrea: Because when it's your first book or your first event where you're sitting at a table and waiting for people to approach you, it can be so intimidating and stressful. But that's why I think it's nice that they had that struggle in the beginning and overcame it, and it's just nice to see that progress. Andrea: But that wasn't the end. Just because you overcome one thing doesn't mean that you're satisfied. There's still the journey to trying to find that satisfaction. Andrea: I would just recommend that, anybody read this book. They might be exposed to concepts they're not familiar with, but I would challenge them to see it as a positive thing. Andrea: And I think that's what the book tries to do, is show a world where people can treat each other with respect, and space, and acknowledge that it's okay to do what you want and try to live your life the way you want to. Wouldn't it be nice if we did that a little bit more? Andrea: To support our podcast and read this book, go to our Bookshop.org affiliate storefront. Books purchased through the site will contribute to independent bookstores across the US, as well as support the Galaxies and Goddesses podcast. Our page has a running list of the monthly book pics, as well as a few other curated, recommended, or thematic reading lists. Andrea: Check out our show notes for a link and we hope you find something to fuel your reading journey. Elizabeth: Unfortunately, that concludes this week's episode. We have reached the end of another cosmic journey on Galaxies and Goddesses. Andrea: Don't worry. The adventure never really ends. There are always more stories to explore and let's be honest, more bookish tangents for us to go on. Elizabeth: If you loved today's episode, make sure to subscribe, leave a review, and share the magic. Andrea: Stay tuned for our next episode while we be chatting about short books, or novellas, to try to fit in a few more before the end of the year. Elizabeth: Keep your mind fueled by the magic of stories. Andrea: And never stop chasing the world's waiting for you between the pages. Thanks everyone!