Latest / APD Pod Squad / Episode 23; Cadet Julian Lanier, Chief Mike Lamb, SPO Debbie LeCroy, and The History Minute with Hannah Silberman

Transcript

Episode 23; Cadet Julian Lanier, Chief Mike Lamb, SPO Debbie LeCroy, and The History Minute with Hannah Silberman · APD Pod Squad

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: This is the APD Pod Squad.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_03: On this episode, July is National Culinary Arts Month.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_03: That is cooking, by the way.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_03: Some of you knew that.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_03: I know someone that did know that, APD Cadet Julian Lanier, he knows a little something about the culinary arts.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_03: Both his parents were chefs, and I guess it kind of rubbed off.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_03: We'll talk to him about that.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_03: Cadet Lanier was a recent A B Tech B L E T graduate, along with 14 others who'll soon be joining our ranks, which is, of course, exciting.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_03: But did you know the next class will be even bigger than that?
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_03: And the next class will be taught exclusively by APD instructors.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_03: Chief Lamb joins me to discuss the Asheville Police Department's first in-house police academy since 2013.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_03: Senior Police Officer Debbie LaCroix with the Community Engagement Division shares the latest and we'll explore her love of horses as July 15th is the little known celebration of the horse day.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_03: And in the History Minute with Hannah Silverman, how good we've got it as we compare current working standards versus those in the 1940s, which may be a little bit shocking to some of you.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_03: It's all coming up in episode 23 of the APD Pod Squad.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_03: Kick of things off today with future officer, recent graduate of basic law enforcement training, and current cadet Julian Lanier.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_03: Julian, thanks for joining me.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, thank you for having me.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_03: Appreciate it.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_03: So you were in the most recent B L E T graduating class.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_03: Congratulations for that.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you very much.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_03: But as I've explained to some some people online that said, geez, that's all they get, just basic law enforcement training.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_03: That is really just the start of a career in which the training is constant, the learning is constant.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_02: 24-7, yeah.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's constant.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, even after basic law enforcement training, at least with Asheville Police Department, we have like a two-month hiatus in between graduation and before we actually hit the road on field training to do refreshers, some in-house policy work.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_03: Aaron Powell It's a long process to be certain.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_03: So where would you say you are right now in the timeline of your law enforcement journey?
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: Uh yeah.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: So the uh in-house training happens or started last week.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it's going to continue until roughly the first week of uh August.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_02: That's when we'll hit field training.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: So we have a little bit more time left.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_03: So we have another ceremony to come where you guys will get, I guess, is it pinned, or is it how has that worked?
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_02: It is our pinning ceremony.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: I actually have my sister coming down to do the pinning on me uh during our pinning ceremony on July 30th.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_02: That's pretty exciting, right?
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: I've I can't wait, honestly.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: I've been uh waiting so long, ever since the full year hiring process here to the sixth month of basic law enforcement training now to the two-month hiatus in between.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_02: And it went by fast, but it is long.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm super ready.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_03: And the family is so important for support along your journey, isn't it?
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I think every instructor throughout basic law enforcement training, every officer I've talked to here at uh Asheville PD is it's constant, you know, reminder hey, make sure your family supports you.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: You know, family does come first, but every officer has mentioned that they've always had support from their family, and that's very, very, very big.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_03: And the longer you're here, I think the more you'll recognize that this is an extended family as well, the Asheville Police Department.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_02: The as people say, brothers and sisters in blue.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's very big camaraderie.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, kind of like some of the other guys that are coming in from the military as well.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_02: They have those friendships for life.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_03: So here's one of the things that I found interesting about you at that recent A B Tech graduation ceremony, and this is the second time I've seen you do it, singing the national anthem.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: I I have some uh vocal background.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: Uh actually in college I was a double major in technical theater production, mainly in the design side of things, but I also did music performance as a tubist.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and somebody dragged me into the choral world and I traveled with that and did that too.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: So that's a new term to me.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: Tubist.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_03: What's what's exactly is a tubist?
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_03: A tuba player.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, okay.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_02: A brass player, yeah.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_03: I thought so, but I wasn't a hundred percent sure.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_03: So that's the term for someone who plays the tuba.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, a tubist.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_03: Is a tubist.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_02: Kind of like a pianist to piano is tuba.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_03: I gotcha.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so you're the first person I've ever known to play a tuba.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: Really?
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_03: I I mean I've known other people playing different instruments.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_03: My wife plays a saxophone, but I've never known a tuba player.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_03: So how did you how'd you choose that one?
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, man, that's way back when uh I started off as a euphonium player, which is a bare tone uh brass player in uh middle school, and I just was infatuated with it.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_02: I just kept going and going and going, and then uh felt like I wanted to do it as a career as a player.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: But being an orchestral tuba player, there's only a handful of orchestras in the world, and if they do have a tuba player, there's only one, and that spot's usually taken for quite a while, so that's why I picked up the technical theater side.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_03: I was gonna say there's just not a whole lot of people doing that professionally.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: Pretty bad job security, honestly.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_03: I would think so.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_03: So that's what that's one thing that maybe some people didn't know about you.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_03: One of the questions is we get to know anyone that sits down in the chair, if you've heard this before, is something that most people don't know about you, and now you can't mention the TUBA thing because we already covered that.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: Or the theater design stuff, yeah.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_03: Or the theater design, so something else.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_02: I was actually a pro video gamer for qu uh quite a while, actually.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_02: Uh not a pro pro, more like a pro am, some online tournaments and then played a little bit in college.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_02: So that was fun.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_02: Did you make some actual money like doing it?
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it's called Game Battles.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's an online tournament type deal.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_02: There's multiple games you can play through it, um, but it's kind of like a server, it's like liaison for the games and stuff.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_02: You could walk out on a random weekend with 500 bucks in your pocket after winning a tournament if you now did you do that all remotely?
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_03: Is that one of the ones you went somewhere in person?
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, I didn't really do mini two in person ones until college.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of it was online with my friends and stuff like that, where we just, okay, I'm gonna bet 25 bucks and it creates a big pool of however many teams throw in how much money and by the end of it, yeah.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: So it was online.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_02: It was more of a high school time frame when I did that, but it was it was fun.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_02: Call of Duty guy, or what's your favorite game?
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, there's so many good games.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: Uh single player games, it'd probably like Final Fantasy games titles, uh, multiplayer games with the uh competitive stuff with was Overwatch at the time when it first came out and Call of Duty, yeah.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_03: I aged out of video games.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_03: Like if so, going back to like the original video games, I had the original Atari, whatever it was, 2600 or whatever the heck it was, where there was a joystick and a button, and you got like Defender and asteroids and all that.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_03: That's what I played growing up.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_03: And as it got a little more complicated, I was still managed to keep up with it, and then at some point it just lost me.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_02: Technology is uh is a crazy thing, it the things have progressed so fast just within 10 years, especially in the gaming world.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's it's different.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_03: I I've been in a room where my buddies are playing like Madden or something, and the graphics are so incredible.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_03: It looks real.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it it's amazing how real it looks.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_02: Some games that come out these days, it's kind of hard to differentiate the two.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: That's why the VR stuff coming into play nowadays as well, where you actually have a headset and you can move physically.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's something else.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_03: Cadet Julian Lanier is with me right now, and uh, so one of the reasons I wanted to talk to you, not just because of being a recent uh graduate at A B Tech of our B L E T program, and with Chief Lamb being next on the show to talk about the next class for the Asheville Police Department being done in-house, which is exciting, is that July is National Culinary Arts Month.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_03: So I started asking around.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, okay, I'm coming up with podcast people.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_03: I go, Do we have anybody that has been a chef or a sous chef or uh had a restaurant history in the past, and your name came up instantly?
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_03: Really?
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_03: So tell me about that.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, well, both my parents, uh my stepfather and my mother are both chefs.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_02: They haven't been in the chef world uh in the past five years, but they did it for quite a long time as it takes a toll on your body, you're just standing up for 14, 20 hour days, depending on it.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember uh it it mainly started with my Japanese grandmother.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, she was from Okinawa, she's real homey, um, a lot of home cooked Japanese meals and stuff.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_02: And that's where I really got my love for food through her being on the kitchen counter with her at like two while my mom and dad were at work, uh, and then transitioned into the uh you know professional world aspect of it.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_02: I started with front of house with my mom and then slowly did cookery and stuff like that, uh, different places such as curate downtown.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, you've cooked a curate.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I was uh what they call Garmajet.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I was in charge of the cold side of where there's like salads and stuff like that at the time uh during my tenure there.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_03: But that includes some sushi, uh creating some of that?
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, curate doesn't really go to sushi.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_03: But I okay, I see I've never been, I've heard it's great.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_03: And I know that you know Katie Button and the whole and all of it, she's James Beard with her and all of that, but I've just that's kind of out of my price range, to be honest with you.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of like a once every six months, maybe special occasion type spot for me as well.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: So I totally understand.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_03: So what's the kind of thing you like to cook?
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_03: What do you like to do?
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, due to my Japanese heritage, uh, I I prefer to do a lot of Asian flavors, but I try to incorporate some of the uh other techniques from like French techniques and other such within the cooking as well.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: So the plating, uh the style, you know, the way it looks coincides with more of the French side, but all the flavors I I generally go toward Asian Japanese flavors personally.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_03: I was always back a house.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_03: I was always in the kitchen.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_03: My first job was at a uh country club, and you were just kind of you had to do everything, right?
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_03: So we had somebody that was making the sauces and doing all this stuff.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_03: When it came to assembling the food and cooking the food, when it came time to that was me.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_03: And I was just in high school at the time.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_03: So that was at least it taught me how to feed myself.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_03: And then in college, I had a chance to take a job at a fancier restaurant.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_03: Now, back then, because we're talking about I don't know what it was, 1990.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not even sure the term sous chef existed.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_03: We were the prep cook, you know.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_03: So I was uh I was helping the chef and doing all the things and stuff like that.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_03: So I was working in this place called Back Bay Lights in Erie, Pennsylvania.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_03: So that also helped me to learn how to cook.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_03: So when I finally, you know, started getting to be an adult, and like you're meeting women, you're like, oh, I'll make dinner for us.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_03: They think you're having hot dogs, and then I could actually cook.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_03: And so that was some of the most valuable stuff that I learned along the way was just how to cook and how food is prepared and and and the timing aspect of it all.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_03: That's the most difficult part.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like the mise en place, as as people say, you know, where you have all your stuff ready ahead of time before you actually start the actual cook, uh, which is again, like you mentioned, the prep work.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, the timing is everything.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_03: That's how you get everything hot at the the right time.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_03: It's like you can't just all of a sudden start at cooking everything at the same time because things finish at different times.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there's a lot of steps to it.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_02: And it takes time to learn that too.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_02: It's not like anybody could just go in a kitchen and just do that right off rip.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_03: It I am the guy that does the Thanksgiving meal though.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_03: Uh every year I do it like beginning to end because I can get everything done at the right time.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, okay, you pull the turkey now, it's got to sit for you know 30, 40 minutes while we're doing that, we're gonna do this, and then all of a sudden everything comes out all hot.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_03: And and so that's always a win for me.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_03: So something else we always ask is where was somebody from?
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_03: Where were you born?
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I was born in Augusta, Georgia, uh, but I say I'm from Colorado right after I was born.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_02: We moved out there for uh for quite a while.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of where I was raised at, toward the uh Aurora Boulder area.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_03: And college you'd mentioned, where was that?
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Newbery College in South Carolina and Newberry, okay, South Carolina.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_03: Augusta, Georgia, Colorado, back to South Carolina.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_03: You've moved around quite a bit.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_02: There's no really particular reason.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_02: Dad just wanted to move around.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: And uh we have family everywhere too, just due to the military.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_02: I have you know family out in California, Colorado.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_02: They kind of just all stayed kind of where they're at now due to the you know, moving around with the military, and they kind of just finally, okay, this is where I'm staying.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_03: So the Asheville Police Department, where did the thought come that you wanted to be a police officer?
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_03: How did that start?
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_02: Well, having a military background within the family.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I never did the military personally, but um seeing that, and then also my my father, my sister, uh, my best friend, you know, military then into law enforcement type stuff.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_02: I've always had, you know, that around me.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_02: I understood the law enforcement side of life, uh being involved with it.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_02: So I always wanted to either do military or police work.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: And kind of like how everybody says, oh, well, stuff happened in life, and then now it's come full circle to where I'm actually living my dream.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_02: Uh as kind of like I mentioned even during the interview process, uh, police work is it's not a job and it's not a career, it's more of a lifestyle.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I I feel like the lifestyle is meant for me.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_03: So you've just been in training for a little while now, and as a cadet for what, uh two, three weeks, I guess or so, like as an official after the B L E T.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_03: Correct, yeah.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_03: So you're just still learning everything, and there's things you haven't even been exposed to yet.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_03: But so far along this process, have you found an area that you're like, you know, I can see myself gravitating towards there at some point?
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I was actually really, really surprised.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_02: I would never have thought just due to all the paperwork and stuff.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: I know we'll have to do within that.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_02: But during the basic law enforcement training, uh Sergeant Pruitt uh was teaching the crash investigations, and then also uh John Derrick uh with the standard field sobriety stuff.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_02: I thought uh I didn't think I would like it at first at all.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I think I really like the crash investigation and the uh SFSTs would be my pick currently.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, my first pick was canine, but I know that's a pipe dream, and there's a s a slew of people waiting for that.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: There's always a big amount of people, and and then being able to specialize later down the road, I don't really have to worry about till three years after after being in for a while.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_02: So I have time to think, uh, but things can change.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_03: Well, congratulations on your B L E T graduation.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_03: Good luck on your pinning.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_03: And then, of course, being on the road solo is what's the time frame for that?
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, if I'm not mistaken, it's like four to six months, depending on how well you do on field training.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_02: So if everything goes well, start FTO August and hopefully on the road by January, it looks like.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, or maybe even an early Christmas present.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_02: Who knows?
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_03: Cadet Julian Lanier, thanks for joining us.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you very much.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_03: Chief Mike Lamb joins me.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_03: It's been a minute since you've been in the seat, so welcome back.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, thank you, Rick.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_03: Exciting times for the Asheville Police Department.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_03: We just spoke with Cadet Julian Lanier, who was part of the most recent class to graduate at A B Tech for B L E T.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe the last class for a while at least, because we've got an exciting announcement for people that haven't heard yet.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_03: Tell us all about it.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, so uh thankfully, and it's a blessing to us, that we have so many cadets that we cannot run the academy class through A B Tech at the Woodfin Training Center.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_05: So for the last several years, each academy class has gone through the B L E T program at A-B Tech Woodfin, and we have so many cadets that we now have to restart our in-house academy.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_05: Uh so we have 21 cadets total, which is uh five times more cadets than we've had for the last five or six years.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_03: That's awesome.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_03: So we just graduated 15 who are now going through kind of in-house training of sorts, getting ready to get out on the streets and FTO training and the whole process that takes about a year from beginning to end.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_03: But they have now passed that graduating from B L E T next into training, and so the next class will be even six more than that.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_03: And so for them, Asheville's Police Academy, which has been how long since we ran it in-house?
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_05: So the last time we ran it in-house was 2013, and that was our last in-house academy class.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_05: And and it started in 2005.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_05: So, like when I went through BLET in 1998, we went to uh BLET at ABTEC on A B Tech campus, and um it is with a variety of instructors.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_05: So you have Asheville Police Department instructors, Buncombe County Sheriff's Office instructors, some instructors from Woodfin Police Department, Black Mountain Police Department.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_05: So you have a range of instructors from different agencies that teach these classes.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_05: And so that was what we had from like the 80s, 90s up to 2005, whenever we had a new chief come in, Bill Hogan, and uh he wanted an in-house academy.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_05: And uh we saw a lot of benefits to having that in-house academy because you had you were here at the agency, you met all of the officers, and most importantly, you understood the culture of the agency.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_05: You know, different agencies have different cultures, they have different expectations.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_05: And so by being part of the in-house academy, you really understood, you know, what the the culture was of the agency.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_05: And you even got to meet some of your supervisors, your FTOs, and you know, you also you learned subject matter experts.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_05: So you met people that were, say, instructors in criminal investigations.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_05: And the reason that was helpful is because when you were out in the field in field training or even after field training as a police officer, you had that connection with an APD instructor who was a subject matter expert who you could call and say, Hey, I've got this problem that I'm trying to figure out.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_05: Can you help me work through this?
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so you've already mentioned some of the advantages of having it in-house.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_03: What would be some of the others?
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_03: I'm guessing it might even be a little bit of a time saving because instead of learning the basic law enforcement training and then the Asheville way, now you're learning basic law enforcement training the Asheville way all at one time.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, yeah, so exactly.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_05: You were you are and you're also learning the geography of downtown because the academy class being at A B Tech campus in in Woodfin, they are primarily going out uh when they're doing stuff in the community.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_05: It's in the town of Woodfin.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_05: When they're going to eat somewhere, they can't go too far because they have to come back to class to restart class after their lunch break.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_05: So it being downtown, they'll get to learn who are the business owners, who are the restaurant owners, you know, what what are the good places to eat?
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_05: Uh they also learn the geography of downtown and it's within a certain radius, and there's more presence.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_05: So you have cadets and officers that'll be in and around the downtown Asheville area.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_05: And also when we do PT training in the morning, most of our PT training are running and doing different obstacles, doing different exercises all throughout downtown Asheville.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_05: So, for an example, we um we did a uh rifle plate run last Friday, you know, and as we're passing people running downtown, we're saying, Good morning, how are you doing?
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_05: Hello.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, what was funny um and uh was great timing was we had two ladies from the League of Municipalities that were downtown doing their walk before they were having a meeting and event at a hotel downtown.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_05: They said, This is this is amazing.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_05: You know, what do you have here?
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_05: And like, well, this is our incoming cadet class, and there's 21 cadets in there, and so we're we're doing a rifle plate run.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_05: And that she was like, This is just so uplifting that you have this many cadets that are here now.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_05: And she took a picture of us and actually used it for her presentation.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_05: So it's it's also community engagement as as we're doing the classes and doing exercises within the city of Asheville.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_03: So already making an impact, and they're not even officers yet, they're just in training, but already out there and being seen by the community, interacting with the community.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so I think sadly, most people's thoughts of the police academy come from a certain Steve Gutenberg movie.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_03: And I think everyone automatically assumes that every police department already does it in-house, like they did in that movie, which was obviously a comedy.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_03: And not much truth to what happened there and what happens in reality.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_03: So I think some people were surprised when it was being done by, say, A B Tech and things of that nature.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_03: Now, you've mentioned a lot of the advantages.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_03: I can't imagine there's too many disadvantages.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_03: Is there anything that we lose a little bit by not doing it with other people that end up going to other departments?
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_05: I think what we lose is the ability to recruit during a BLET class that is run by A B Tech.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_05: So be because we are going to have to focus our instructors on uh the in-house academy, they won't have as much of an opportunity to teach at the Woodfin Campus Academy.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_05: And so that's a potentially 20 or so cadets that are not spoken for, or maybe not not spoken for through other agencies that we can recruit and bring to the department.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_05: So we don't have as much FaceTime with those cadets.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_05: We'll we'll still have instructors that are teaching maybe one or two classes out there, but because of the focus on the in-house academy, uh, we will have less time because uh usually every class will bring a handful of cadets over that have gone through that that A B Tech Academy.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_03: Chief Mike Lamb joins me now.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_03: We're talking about the police academy gonna be in-house with the Asheville Police Department, beginning with the next class.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_03: You were speaking about recruitment there, and so you lose a little bit of an edge there, but do you gain a little bit in the greater recruitment of others that are just looking at this department?
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, they have their police academy in-house.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_03: Is that looked at differently?
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_03: Like a more of a positive for people that are gonna be possible police officers, like, oh, they have their own in-house academy.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, exactly.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_05: And you know, we provide the training facility, we provide all the equipment, they are paid whenever they're going through the academy.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_05: They have all their salary and benefits that are attached.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_05: And whenever we have potential cadets that are coming in for testing, they are seeing the cadets work out.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_05: So an example of that is last week we had applicant testing one of the mornings, and so all of the applicants are waiting out in front of the police department, and they're watching this group of 21 cadets do push-ups together, sit-ups together, squats, and everybody's counting out.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_05: So, you know, ever people aren't doing push-ups on their own.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_05: It's everybody goes down, everybody goes up and says, one, same thing, two, three, you know, and so on and so forth.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_05: So they're seeing this camaraderie, this teamwork with this group all working together.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_05: And you could see like the excitement on these potential cadets' face uh faces whenever they were watching the incoming class do their workout together.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_05: You know, and we also take photos and we uh do interviews and we put stuff out on social media talking about the cadet experiences, like you just did the interview with Cadet Lanier with Julian.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, and speaking of, you know, we we having an in-house academy, the officers, the instructors, the supervisors, everyone learns cadets' names.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_05: So that when we pass them in the hallway, everybody knows, hey, you know, hey Cadet Lanier, hey Julian, how are you doing?
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_05: Um and so we there's there's more of a family atmosphere and a sense of family whenever we have the cadets in-house.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_05: So that relationship building starts early.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, it's it's huge.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_05: And and you know, relationships internally and externally are and communication are such a big part of law enforcement success.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_03: Well, since we're doing it in-house, that means in-house instructors, that means members of the Asheville Police Department.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_03: Let's talk about some of them right now.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_03: Name some of the instructors.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_03: Who are they?
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_05: Oh gosh, and we have uh Lieutenant James Boyce.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_05: He is overall recruitment and career development, he does firearms and he also does SCAT.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_05: SCAT is subject control and arrest techniques or uh defensive tactics, is what it used to be called.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_05: Um we also have McKenzie Gallion.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_05: McKenzie is our first female SCAT instructor.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_03: Brazilian jujitsu.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, she's a purple belt if I remember.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_05: Something she can kick my butt.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_05: I know that one.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_05: She can she can wrap you up in the case.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, she can like a pretzel.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_05: Exactly, yeah.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_05: You know, and she's uh physically it's amazing how strong she is for her size.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_05: She's like five foot tall.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and also um her cardio is just amazing.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_05: Like she can just you know, I think if I remember correctly, she was a cross country or track athlete, athlete in high school, and so just in great shape.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_05: And so, yeah, she, you know, her being our first uh female SCAT instructor, uh, we have a great Depth of firearms instructors as well from Tyler Radford, who was a prior SWAT team commander, Alexander Wall, who is uh a SWAT team leader.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_05: We also have Deputy Chief Jackie Stepp, who's a firearms instructor, and Lieutenant James Boyce as well.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_05: So and then we uh we have Mac Creeson, who is a retired sergeant from the Asheville Police Department, who is our range master.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_05: And Mack has decades of firearms experience.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, he he understands all of the uh the older systems, is an expert in all the new weapon systems for firearms, our pistols we just transferred over to an MOS system.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_05: So we have uh Glock 45s, which is uh basically it's a Glock 17 frame on a Glock 19 slide, and then we have the across our red dot sights.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_05: And every pistol also has a has a light on it as well.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_05: So these these officers have the very top-end firearms gear whenever they're in the academy, whenever they get out on their own.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_05: And so Mac had brings that expertise with him.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um you'd mentioned physical fitness.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_03: We have Matthew Eichmann.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_05: So we have Matthew Eichmann who's leading our physical fitness training.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_05: And Matt is uh has several strength and conditioning certifications, advanced certifications.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_05: He's also got his master's uh in physical education from the uh Citadel and did some training for several departments down in that Charleston area and also for Citadel athletes as well.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_05: So he brings a very high level of expertise to physical fitness training.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_05: Um I'm one of the PT instructors as well.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_05: I go out and do PT every morning with the cadets.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_05: Um I went through basic physical fitness instructor school and then I received my CrossFit Level 1 certification in 2007.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_05: And so we have like uh Josh Hill, Lieutenant Josh Hill, who was a track athlete and cross-country runner in in high school and college, who brings that expertise with him.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_05: Jesse Ramirez, Mike Sorensen, Brandon Morgan, you know, just a good cadre of physical fitness instructors that work on both strength and speed.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_03: What does it mean for the the incoming students of our what to be is the in-house academy?
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_03: I guess you don't know yet, but you've been with the cadets now.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_03: What does it mean for them when the chief of police is not just teaching but training right next to them?
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_05: You know, I think it's that's an example for them.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_05: I think it's I think they see it as motivation because it's uh being the chief, I'm 50 years old, uh, I've been doing this for almost 28 years.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_05: And the importance of maintaining a physical fitness level, especially at least a functional physical fitness level, because in this job, there's times where you have to get in, you know, you have to get in a foot chase, you have to fight somebody, um, you have to stay in post for hours on end sometimes.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_05: And just having t having that basic level of physical fitness truly helps.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_05: And you know, I saw it, especially during Helene, the first week of Helene, when we were in the command post and we were going 24-7, I wasn't able to work out.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_05: And I could I could feel the stress rising up in me.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_05: And so one thing we tell the cadets is like, as far as your mental health goes, you need to work out.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_05: Like you have to get those that cortisol out of your system, get the blood flowing, because physical fitness is also such an important part of an individual's mental health as well.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_03: I remember talking about that with you one time.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_03: We were up in the office, and both of us had like gone, I don't know what it went four, five, six days or whatever without hitting the gym.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_03: And I think we'd both gotten back in the gym about the same time when we had our first chance.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_03: We're like, that feels great.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_03: It does yes, yeah.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_03: You know, so to do that, I don't think people that aren't used to working out, used to exercising, understand the benefits from even that point of view, just the the mental fitness that it creates.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and I think, you know, both of us being in our 50s, we're you understand that motion is the lotion.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_05: Like when I don't work out, that's when I start to my shoulders start to hurt, my hips start to hurt, my knees start to hurt.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_05: But as long as I'm working out on a regular basis, I actually feel healthier and there's less it's like pain management just by movement.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, absolutely.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_03: And some of these kids are gonna be in their 20s and they're like, oh my gosh, I gotta be able to keep up with this guy.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_03: He's 50 years old.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_03: If I can't do that, it's like so it's always a motivator too, I would think, right?
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, yeah, definitely.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_03: We're gonna have some driving instructors, I would imagine, as well, right?
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, everything from just the basic patrol stuff to listen, here's how a high-speed chase goes.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_03: Who are those people?
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_05: Uh we have uh retired Sergeant Scott Pruitt.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_05: He's been teaching it for several years.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and and he he does a great job with it.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_05: He leads that that driving instructor program.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_05: And we have other in-house instructors as well that help out with driving.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_05: And it is driving is so important because that's where oftentimes we lose cadets because they have to be able to navigate the uh the slalom course, they have to be able to uh you know back into certain areas, they have to be able to navigate a curve at high speeds, um, and also to be able to get in engaged in a uh in a vehicle pursuit and be able to do that safely.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_05: And you know, they also help to understand when we can get engaged in a pursuit and when we can't.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_05: So that's different but depending on different agencies.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_05: So you asked the question earlier about why it's important to have an in-house academy.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_05: And when they're doing the driver instructors training, they can understand like the times that we can pursue are limited because of the dangerousness involved in a pursuit and the potential of somebody out in the public getting hurt.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_05: And so that message is also given across during that driver instructor training.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_03: And the multitasking that takes place for anyone that's ever done a ride along, so that some people don't know is this officer's got a computer right there.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_03: So he's not only trying to observe the road, he's listening to his radio, he has his computer and he's trying to see what's going on around him and be observational in that way.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_03: There's a lot that takes place inside a vehicle.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, definitely.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_05: And then anticipating where the fleeing driver is going to go and trying to coordinate the response to have officers ahead, especially if it becomes a jump and run situation.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_05: And now we have another layer in there where we have drone deployment.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_05: So if we're deploying a drone overhead to try to watch the pursuit, and especially if it's a jump and run situation to where the uh the drone can get ahead, track the vehicle, or the suspect who's fleeing so that they can coordinate the officer response.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_03: So this is exciting.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_03: When does this uh this first and next class begin?
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_05: Well, right now we've we're in pre-BLET.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_05: So we're getting them used to their physical conditioning.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_05: We're taking them out to the range to make sure that they at least have firearms familiarity before they shoot a gun for the first time in the academy.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_05: So what we're doing is setting them up for success.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_05: We're also doing policy sign-offs and getting them to get everything out of the way for pre-hire so that they can go through the academy and just focus on the academy.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_05: First official date that they start the academy is in August.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_05: So the first week in August is their first full week of the academy, and then they'll run all the way through January.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_05: We've already started hiring and started doing um interviews for the next cadet class, which will start around probably January or February.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_05: So we're hoping to have uh at least 21 in that one, if not more, for that class.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_03: So are we talking uh two classes per year or maybe three?
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_05: So typically we run two.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_05: So um I think if this first class is very successful and that we have the class space, because you know, we're like right now, we're up in the fire department area doing this interview.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_05: So it's important for us to have enough instructional space to where we can potentially run three academies because it's if we can which we've done in the past, whenever we had our in-house academy from 2005 to 2013, we at times we were running three academies to get cadets in faster.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_03: So how many more classes do we need to get us closer to that fully staffed Asheville police department that we've all been yearning for for well since 19 well I should say since 2020.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_03: Not nineteen.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_03: That's been a long time ago.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_03: Since twenty twenty when we started losing officers.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_03: How many of these do we need to get there?
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_05: So we're 65 down currently.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_05: And with this class of 15 coming out, that takes us down to 50.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_05: And then with the class of 21, and this is assuming that everybody makes it through training.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_05: Let me see, we'd be down to 29, so around 30 after that.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_05: And so we potentially need maybe three more big classes for us to get back up to full staffing.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah too.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_03: So you lose some officers that way.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_03: But so we're probably maybe two years?
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_05: Two years is definitely what we're we're potentially at to be back to full staffing.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_05: And that's exciting because that also allows us to bring back uh specialty units that we we had uh disbanded or paused during 2020.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_05: And you know, that also is a big recruiting tool as well, because like myself, I did five years on patrol, five years in drug investigations, three years in gang investigations, uh like seven years as a detective supervisor.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_05: And so I'm gaining experience from these different roles.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_05: Um, but it's also, you know, you don't get bored because you're constantly switching and doing new things.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_05: So like one of the first things we're going to bring back is traffic safety.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_05: And so there's all as we restaff, there's all these different specialty positions that officers can go and specialize in.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_05: And that that's a big recruiting tool.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it'll be exciting to have have these bigger classes back.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_05: And I think us having the uh city council helping us pass the our new pay ladder or new pay structure is also helping, and it's helping us to get laterals as well.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_05: We've we've had two officers that had just came back, uh, both left to go to different agencies in 2020, and they saw the new pay ladder.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_05: They've heard about the great things going on at APD, the family environment, and the morale, and more support from the public as well.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_05: So they came back from these other agencies.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_05: So it's good to have those two officers back.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_05: And from what I'm hearing, more coming back as well, seeing all the great things that we're doing here.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_03: Exciting times at the Asheville Police Department as we continue growing as a department and adding the in-house police academy is another step.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, exactly.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_03: Chief Mike Lamb, thanks so much for joining us today.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Ruth.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_03: Senior Police Officer Debbie LaCroix with the Community Engagement Division joins me right now.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome back.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_03: Good morning.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_03: Summer in full effect.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_03: I know it's keeping you guys busy.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_03: What is going on?
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_03: What is coming up?
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we've got National Night Out coming up, August 5th, a very fun event.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's a an annual community building campaign designed to heighten crime and drug prevention awareness, to generate support for and participation in local anti-crime programs, to strengthen neighborhood spirit and police community partnerships, as well as send a message to criminals letting them know that neighborhoods are organized and fighting back against them and crime in their neighborhood.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_03: Always the first Tuesday in August.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_03: And what we're looking for is if you're having a local gathering in your neighborhood, a little bit of a celebration, let us know and invite the Asheville Police Department and we'll come out and join you.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: And it can be as uh simple as an ice cream social or some neighborhoods have potlucks, some neighborhoods invite bands, and it's just a really fun night, and we make sure that uh we have officers in the community that are able to attend and participate in the festivities.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_03: I know last year we had them in uh we had one in Shiloh, had a party in Shiloh, we had a party at the Biltmore Park Town Square, that association.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_03: And they did have like a live band and they had like Sunshine Sammies with like ice cream there and a big crowd for that one.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: Food trucks, uh we had uh Bobby Ingalls band.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: I mean it was it was a great, it was a good event.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_03: They were all were so just go to the uh police department website and you'll see there a link where you can invite the Asheville Police Department, and we're accepting those right now because that is coming up here in just a few weeks.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: We already have about four neighborhoods uh signed up, and we anticipate quite a few more to sign up before then.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_03: I've already heard we're gonna get perfect weather for that night.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's the that's great.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's what we want.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: And Officer Cora, it will be out and about attending as many of those events as possible.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_03: We can tell she's uh kind of resting up for that right now.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_03: Officer Cora is in the studio with us.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_03: You will not be hearing much from her.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_03: She is currently checked out uh on the floor.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_03: And uh I guess she's getting ready probably the 4th of July.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_03: You guys are probably gonna be out, I would imagine, by the time this actually airs, it will be post-Fourth of July.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_03: But uh, I know a lot of dogs don't do well with fireworks.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_03: How does Cora do?
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, during her training at Highland K9, they taught her to be comfortable around loud noises.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: She had gunfire and things like that uh around her during her training since she was going to be, you know, with us at the police department.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, she does she does fine.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of dogs do not.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_03: So hey, if you've got like a sensitive dog and this happens all summer long.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_03: Fireworks aren't just for the 4th of July.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_03: People set them off in in neighborhoods and stuff.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_03: There are certain things you can do for your canines to make them more comfortable.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_03: So including training like uh Officer Cora had, I would imagine.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_03: So what else do we got coming up besides the national night out?
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell Well, we've got our police department retiree reunion coming up.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh that's still in the planning phases.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: We're uh this is an event exclusively for retired APD employees, and we hope to see as many of them as possible.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna be a fun night.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna have a cookout, you know, we're gonna celebrate our 150th years of service, and we want to reconnect with the individuals who have helped uh shape the Asheville Police Department.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I saw an announcement on the Asheville Police Department Facebook page, too.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_03: So if you're hearing this right now and you want to get more info, that's a great way to go for it.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_03: It's got like times and locations and things like that.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_03: Just go to the APD Facebook page.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna be um September 6th from 11 to 3 p.m.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: And it's gonna be here at headquarters.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, awesome, like right off back?
• 35:25
  unknown: Yeah.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, fantastic.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_03: Looking forward to that.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: Rain or shine.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_03: Anything else in the world of community engagement?
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: We've got our uh coffee with a cop, our quarterly coffee with a cop uh set up for September 12th.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: We're not sure where that's gonna be yet.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: We're still working on that, but stay tuned for details.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_03: I'll put that on my calendar.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_03: I love coffee.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: I do too.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: Cora likes her pup cups, but you know, yeah, I'm I'm more of the coffee.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_03: So she'll be there as well.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_03: I know that for a fact.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_03: So I speaking of Facebook and social media, I we're friends on Facebook and I've seen your posts with horses.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_03: And uh, I don't know if there's anyone else in our department that has a horse.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_03: But coming up on July 15th is the little known celebration of the horse day.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know the origins of this.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not even sure what you're supposed to do to celebrate a horse on that particular day, but I do know that you have horses, love horses.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_03: So when did that begin?
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, I grew up wanting a horse.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: Every Christmas I would ask my parents for a horse.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_03: If it didn't, every little girl asked for a pony.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and I would get the stuffed horses, the briar horses, things like that, but never got a horse until I was about 12 years old.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: And my parents surprised me with a horse, and it was nonstop.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: I grew up loving horses, riding horses.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: I would go swimming with horses, and there's nothing like it.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: Just being on the back of a horse and riding out in nature, enjoying just the beautiful scenery.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's so therapeutic.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_03: Did you have some land like that where you grew up, or did you have your horse actually stabled somewhere else?
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: Both.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: Uh both at during different times of my teenage years.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: It was we had both.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: I had them boarded somewhere else, and then we also moved to a place that I was able to have horses on our own property.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_03: See, I've never had a horse, but I've ridden a bunch growing up.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_03: We used to go to stables and just, you know, you could rent to time or whatever.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_03: Like you get an hour, you get two hours or whatever.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_03: So that was something we regularly did.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_03: So I really enjoyed that growing up.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_03: So I totally get where you're coming from.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_03: Never had the opportunity to actually have one, but love riding them.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_03: So I get it.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's like there's a freedom there.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, exactly.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_01: And so that was kind of my love for horses.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: My daughter picked up on that.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: And one of my daughter, one of my five children, uh, one daughter, Ashley, she developed that same love, kept asking for a horse, asking for a horse.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: She had a horse birthday where we had someone bring a little pony to her fifth birthday, and it just kind of grew from there.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: She got the stuffed horses, the briar horses.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_01: And then when she was about 12, we bought her her first horse.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_01: And we did board it because we didn't have a place necessarily to keep it at the time.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_01: But her love for horses grew and she competed on a high level uh with Hunter Jumper.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_01: She uh went to the Washington International Horse Show, Pony Finals.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: She went to Devon, she went a lot of different places with she was very good.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_01: She still is good, but we kind of nurtured that.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, she went to Carolina Day at the time, and uh they were very good about letting her be away for her shows as long as she kept up with her grades and in which she did.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: That was one of the things that she had to make good grades and study hard to be away at these shows.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_03: Officer Debbie LaCroix joins me.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_03: We're talking horses as July 15th is the little known celebration of the horse day.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_03: You mentioned your first horse.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_03: What was its name?
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: Dixie.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_03: Dixie.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_03: Can I guess Dixie was uh a Philly?
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_01: She was a chestnut mayor.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_01: Chestnut mayors.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_01: Anybody that knows anything about horses, they are a little persnickety sometimes.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I absolutely adored her, but you know, she took me through electric fences.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_01: She, you know, I thought oh, it'd be a cool thing to start jumping on her, you know, like Indian style.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: You run and jump on her from behind.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_01: And she kicked me a time or two doing that.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_01: So and we went swimming.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_01: She almost drowned me when she went under, I went under, and had a lot of fun experiences.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_01: But that was Dixie.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_03: I I think horses mess with humans like on purpose.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_03: So I think they're a lot smart smarter than people.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_03: So we went to Gatlinburg one time, my wife and I.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_03: And I'd ridden a lot, right?
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_03: And I was no expert, but she had never ridden.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_03: So we go to this, you know, this farm where the horses, and and we explained to her, yes, she's never ridden, so get her one that's you know, used to that.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_03: And I I've ridden a lot, so you can give me more experienced horse.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_03: So as you know, in Gatlinburg, it's these trails go right along the side of these hills, these mountains.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_03: And so this horse that my wife was on, it was messing with her the whole time by getting as close to the edge as possible.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_03: And so she's freaking out, right?
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, honey, the horse doesn't want to go over the side any more than you do.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_03: I go, you just gotta kind of pull the reins a little bit.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_03: I go, you gotta direct them.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_03: I go, you might want to give them a little bit of a kick to the ribs.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you're not gonna hurt them.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_03: They're 2,000 pounds.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_03: But she wouldn't do it.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_03: So she would just she couldn't take control, and the horses know that.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_03: They want to be in charge.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_03: And and they will be if you let them.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: They know, exactly.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: A funny story.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I like to do things with my kids on Mother's Day, whether it's hiking up to Grandfather Mountain, getting them a little out of their comfort zone to everyone going horseback riding.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so we went out to Sandy Bottoms, took all my kids horseback riding, and it was so fun.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, some my boys they like electronics and gaming and stuff.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I turn around and I'm like, you know, I just I'm so happy that we're out in nature.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I turn around and Charlie has his phone and he's, you know, the horse is kind of he's following in behind all the other horses.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_01: But I just I do have a picture of him.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: He's sitting there on his phone, just I was like, Charlie.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_03: How can you be on top of a horse and be playing on your device?
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: No, it was it was cute, but you know, all of my kids did not necessarily like the same thing.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_01: They're you know, that's just how it is.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_03: I've seen pictures of like a mini horse.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_03: Do you have a mini mini horse as well?
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_03: I've seen pictures that you have like you're with a mini horse.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_01: My daughter rescued two miniature horses that were uh slated to be killed.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_01: So she rescued two of her mini horses, and then we have one, another mini horse.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_01: His name is Muffin, and that's my daughter's two and a half-year-old uh son's horse, miniature, and he's tea tiny.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_01: He actually came in my house at Christmas time, uh, was wandering through the house and wondering what he was getting for Christmas.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_03: Because they're only about the size of Cora, right?
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_03: I mean they're they're there's a bit taller than Cora.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_01: Mini donkey.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_01: We they also have a mu well, a mini mule.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh his name is Buzz, and he is about the size of Cora.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_03: What does she do with the donkey and the horse?
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_03: Does she does she kind of wonder what they are almost?
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_01: She uh she does okay.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_01: She's respectful of them.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_01: She doesn't bark, but she doesn't necessarily get right in there.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_01: Uh she respects they're a little heavier, of course, but she doesn't bother them.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_01: Now she'll get in there with the miniature goats.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_01: She does mix it up with them a bit.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_03: But so have you been to the outer banks where they have the horses on the beach?
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_03: The the one that I forget which beach it is, but you know where I'm somewhere out there where the horses run wild.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_03: Have you seen have you been there to see that?
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_01: I've always wanted to go horseback riding on the beach, and I'm never that's on my bucket list.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_03: So is there beaches where you can do that?
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_03: Take your own horse and Yeah.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_01: Well, not necessarily I mean, I guess there are some that you can take your own horses.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_03: But you can just go and like rent and just kind of like pay for the experience.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I I will do that one day.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_01: I that's on my bucket list.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_01: I just haven't done it yet.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, before we go, uh my favorite joke is the horse walks into a bar.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_03: Bartender says, Why the long face?
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_03: Do you get it?
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_03: Because the the horse has even Cora's like, give me the business over here.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_03: My wife hates that joke too.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_03: It's got layers.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_03: Do you get it?
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_03: Because the bartender is always listening to the horse, actually has a long face.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_01: I get it.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_01: Cora didn't much care for that.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_03: No, she didn't.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_03: I heard her give a groan.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_03: She there was an audible groan for that joke.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_03: It's probably deserved.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_03: It's a classic, it's got layers like an onion.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_03: Officer Debbie LaCroix, thanks for joining me.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_03: Time again for another edition.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_03: Of the History Minute with Hannah Silberman.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_03: We're going to call this one How Good We've Got It as we compare working conditions from the 1940s, which really wasn't that long ago, World War II ending, the boys coming back from Europe, versus the working conditions now.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_03: You wouldn't think they would be that different, would you?
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_03: Like right now, we've got the you know pretty standard 40-hour work week, give or take.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_03: You've got paid holidays and sick days for uh just about everybody, I would think, but not the case in the 1940s, Hannah.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_03: What was it like then?
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: So if you were a police officer in the 1940s, you got two days off a month.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_03: So we're not talking weekends off and two days off a month.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_03: You're talking two days off a month.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_03: So seven days a week, then six days a week, then seven days a week, then six days a week.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_03: That was your schedule.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_03: That's crazy.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_03: So what what changed things?
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_03: What happened?
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_00: So in in 1946, in July of 1946, our police union went to city council and said, not only did we want to raise, which would have been the first since 1938, but they um worked 242 hours a month, not including their extra duty assignments.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so they were only given 10 vacation days every year that could only be taken in the winter.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_00: So they said they wanted a few things.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_00: They wanted to add some police officers so they could have at least one day off a week.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_00: So that's working six days a week.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then they wanted to be able to take vacation in the summertime.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_03: So with the numbers you just gave, that's 60-hour work weeks.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_03: Approximately six and a half hour work.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_03: My goodness.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, now we know the benefits of like mental health and fitness and all these things and how you can get quickly worn out by just working too much.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_03: But that's why we entitled this one, How Good We've Got It.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_03: Because I don't want to say we've gotten soft, but I mean, I personally I appreciate the time off because I I've worked a lot of jobs in my my life, and many of them included 50, 60 hour work weeks, and sometimes two and three jobs, and a lot of people are doing that now.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_03: Uh a lot of our officers uh work augment hours or they'll work for a private company being paid extra.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_03: So they're working extra hours, but they're being compensated for it.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_03: Back then, that was just part of the deal.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_03: Doesn't seem fair.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_03: You go back even further.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you've probably seen these pictures of Appalachia way back in the day.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_03: You've got like 10-year-old kids digging for coal in mines in, like, say, West Virginia or something.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_03: Things have obviously improved dramatically since then, but in the 1940s, not that much yet.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Powell Exactly.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_00: And they actually, I have some language from the petition just about being able to take vacation at any time of year.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_00: And they said, quote, a great many of the members of the force are younger men with children still in school, and we feel that our vacation period should come at a time that we can do like other husbands and fathers and go on a vacation with our wife and children, that they may share it with us and us with them.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_00: A vacation to the proper kind of husband and father without his wife and children is not much of a vacation.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_03: Aaron Ross Powell That's the truth.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, really.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_03: Now some people might want to take a vacation without their husband.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_03: That might be advantageous.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_03: But I I know around here, uh one thing that I had to learn when I started this job is people called vacations here.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_03: They called them leave, which is, I guess, more of a military and a thing of that nature.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_03: But I wasn't used to that, so I I'm probably still using the word vacation.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_03: But we have a lot of our uh officers and staff, and they take two weeks at a time.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_03: And everybody needs that recharge.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_03: It actually makes you a more effective worker, a better employee with it.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_03: I know you're a Disney gal.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_03: You go down to those of those theme parks.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we went once.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_03: And they saw how much it cost, and you're like, this is the only time we're coming here.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_03: No, so we're talking about the 1940s, right?
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_03: We're not talking about the 1800s.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_00: No, 1940.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_00: 1940s were not that long ago.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_00: Patrol officers worked generally in these different squads from it varied between 6:30 a.m.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_00: to 2.30 p.m.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then they actually had to rotate each shifts e each month.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_00: So they went from day shift to evening shift to night shift, which is something that we sort of did again in the 1980s, except they never got a day off.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_00: It was just always rolling.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_03: Aaron Powell And did these rules apply to like every department?
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_03: Uh were there detectives then?
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_03: I know there was a motorcycle unit.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Powell Motorcycle officers had an even harder schedule.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_03: Really?
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_03: Even harder.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_00: They worked even more.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_00: Uh in fact, they brought on extra officers every summer to work as motorcycle officers because they dealt with traffic and the traffic got bad in the summers.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_03: So they weren't even like real officers.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_00: They were like kind of Yeah, they just swore in whoever could ride a motorcycle.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_03: Can you ride?
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_03: Can you ride a ticket?
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's like sixteen hours a day and one day off every 10 days was the motorcycle officer schedule.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_03: Aaron Powell What did they think that hey, you get to ride a motorcycle, that's kind of fun, so we're gonna work you harder?
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Powell Well, they spent their ships riding motorcycles, but on Saturdays they were let allowed to patrol in a car.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_03: Aaron Ross Powell Allowed.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_03: You get four wheels today.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_03: It just makes you appreciate at least a little bit of how good we've got it, quite frankly, right now.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, we all work hard here when we would do work, but there's time off.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_03: There's time to recharge, there's time to recoup, we get paid holidays.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_03: Did they get paid holidays?
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_03: Did they get sick days?
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_03: Did they get any of those type things?
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_03: Like maybe you're just you're off on Christmas or something, or any of that, or did you just not get paid?
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Powell I think you just didn't get paid.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_03: Aaron Powell So I know now that basically the Asheville Police Department plays by the same rules when it comes to HR in that universe as the city of Asheville.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_03: So was that the case back then in the 1940s?
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_03: Or would was that just an eventual merge that occurred?
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Powell In the 1940s, the police and fire departments were subject to different rules because of a very specific civil service system that other city employees weren't fully rolled into until later.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_03: Aaron Powell Okay.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_03: So it wasn't the same back then.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_03: Just at some point we all became part of the same kind of overall HR situation.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_03: Which is probably the way to go.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_03: We're all getting paid by the city of Asheville based on tax dollars.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_03: I would guess even back then that was the case.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Powell Yes, absolutely.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_00: But I think federal wage and labor laws started kicking in, and then things like overtime and you know how the pay schedules work applied also to our police officers.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_03: Trevor Burrus Well, we've come a long way.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_00: Trevor Burrus So actually a an a funny twist, they requested that pay raise in July of 1946, but they actually a week later rescinded it and said, whoa, we're so sorry, and we um are gonna suspend our request until until our, quote, very capable city manager can devise ways and means of financing our affairs in such a manner as to grant our reasonable request without having to resort to an unpleasant task of increasing the city taxes.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_03: Somebody must have said something to somebody, because you don't usually get it changed like that.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_00: But in December 1947, which was a year and a half later, um city revenue went up because of the established Asheville Board of Alcoholic Control.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_00: So all of that extra money allowed City Council to approve the changes, and they hired five new police officers to create a second shift so that they could start giving people days off.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_03: Because they started taxing booze.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_03: And of course, that's going to add to the coffers quite a bit, and that's where the money came from.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no, that gave them their salary increase.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't get their day off until August of 1948 when the union had to present a petition signed by 2,500 residents to say that they need a day off, and then the city council let them hire the extra officers.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_03: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_03: So 2,500 people had to sign that petition in a city that at that time the population was way less than it is now.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I don't know exactly what it was, but what probably in the 40 to 50,000 range, maybe?
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_03: Uh so you're talking about you need like 10 to 15 percent of the population.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_03: That's a big number.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Powell Yeah.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_00: And if that union wasn't there advocating, do you think I don't know if those officers would have got the day?
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_03: I could pretty much guarantee those officers wouldn't get the day off.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_03: So good for them for getting that.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_03: The old commercial says, We've come a long way, baby.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_03: I guess it and we have, and that's all of us here at the Asheville Police Department.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_03: So once again, a history minute with Hannah Silberman that almost makes your jaw drop when you consider the conditions then versus the conditions now.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_03: So thank you again, Hannah.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_03: That does it for episode 23.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks for listening to the APD Pod Squad.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_03: And thank you to my guests, Cadet Julian Lanier, Chief Mike Lamb, Senior Police Officer Debbie LaCroix, and Hannah Silberman with The History Minute.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_03: If you like what you hear, make sure you subscribe, like, add to your library or playlist, make it a favorite, and go tell it on the mountain.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_03: Share it on Facebook, Instagram, Reddit, LinkedIn, Tinder, Bumble, eHarmony, or even Silversingles.com, like my friend Mark.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_03: That's how I met his wife.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_03: Let's grow this thing.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_03: If you have a question about, well, almost anything, call 828-250-8800 and ask the chief.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_03: That's 828-250-8800.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_03: Or you can email me at apdpodcastfeedback at ashefilnc.gov.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_03: That is apdpodcastfeedback at ashevillenc.gov.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_03: Same goes if you've just got like a topic suggestion or something you'd like to hear discussed.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_03: Use that same number, call on the phone, leave the voicemail 250-8800, or email apdpodcastfeedback at ashefilnc.gov.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_03: So got an idea?
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_03: Let me know.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_03: I'm Rick Rice, and this is the APD Pod Squad.