Latest / The Marketing Brief / Social Fabric Sessions: E13 Meg Wells
Transcript
- Brian: Hello and welcome back to the Marketing Brief Podcast. I am your host, Brian Aquine. And of course, this is the podcast where we talk about marketing. It's kind of what I do, it's what I like to talk about. I like to bring guests on to do it. And this is a special episode, another subset episode called the Social Fabric Sessions. And as it were, we have a social fabric member here, and I'm very excited to introduce Meg Wells. Welcome in, Meg. Meg: Hi, thanks so much for having me. This is gonna be fun. Brian: I think it's going to be fun. We've already been having some fun talking before we started recording. Meg, you do a lot of things. also on your LinkedIn, it says you're a branded entertainment futurist, which I think is awesome. how would you describe? Well, I guess I'm asking you how to describe yourself without saying what you do. So we'll we'll try that one first. How do you describe yourself without saying what you do for a living? Meg: So am I describing myself as a human or am I describing myself as in terms of what I do without using all the words that we use to say what we do? Brian: I think as a human. Let's start there. Meg: okay, as a human, I'm a Libra, I like long walks on the beach, I love dogs. Brian: Nice. Meg: no, in truth, I am Brian: Dating profile. Meg: yeah, no. I think I'm I'm insatiably curious about humans. That that drives obviously the work that I do, but I am I'm an intense observer. There's all kinds of context and personal stories behind that as to the as to the why. But I I really believe it's the things that are unsaid that make us the most interesting and being able to be quiet and hold space for people and their stories is the most amazing gift. And it shows up in in what I do for work and what I do when I'm not working. Brian: That's awesome. I am similarly very interested in humans. the psychology part of marketing is what keeps me going, is what I really love. I love data and research about people because it you can tell a story, you can get a narrative from that, and then strategies are kind of easier to write, I guess, once once you've got that nailed down. Have you always, I guess, have you always known that about yourself? Have you always known that you that you that you were an insight that you had an insatiable? Was it insatiable hunger of of humans or insatiable knowledge? Meg: curiosity, but we can go with that, sure. I Brian: Curiosity. Yeah. Meg: think, you know, it's stay tuned for part two when you have me back, and I'll give you the childhood version of this. But I grew Brian: Nice. Meg: up in an environment that required me to be really observant. I'll give you just kind of the teaser version of that. my grandfather and then of course and and then my dad both became blind. And so I grew up in an environment where observation mattered and Talking about what you saw mattered, listening to your environment mattered. and what I think, I think the gift that that gave me, and it's not something that really is talked about a ton in my family of origin, it's just what influenced me is the gift that that gave me is to be curious first and assumptive last. So When something is removed from your capability set, whether that is your sight or your hearing or any of your other senses, it requires you to be more present in a different way. And it requires you to listen in whatever way is possible for you to do so, just to be able to navigate. And so I think from a very early age, I was hyper aware of what sight. And context and environment and story allowed for relative to the human experience. And it manifests in every single part of what I do now. Like, I think you mentioned data-informed creative. There was a point in time in my career where I thought artistry ruled above everything else. I think that was a malinformed part of my career. I think where I sit now, human motivation matters more than anything else. Human choices. human day parts, human experiences, cultural differences. I did all of my graduate research on cultural differences and storytelling based on the work of, and I'm gonna go down a really nerdy rabbit hole, but Brian: Like it. Meg: based on the work of a researcher named Gert Hofstead who mapped every country in the world on several different cultural dimensions. And his working premise was When you grow up in a society or a culture, there are certain things that you will never be able to remove yourself from, just based on how and where. And there's certain things that you will be able to change based on your lived experience. But it's fascinating to start taking a look at when you can cross-compare cultures and countries, people, motivations, demographics. Like we live in a globalized society and we think there is some sort of one size fits all for stories, and there just isn't. You know, like I'm gonna perceive something very differently than you are, just based on the nature of who we are and where we come from. So what a powerful set of tools to be able to use that to inform the creative. Brian: Absolutely. I really love the curious first assumptive last line. that's a good way to go through life, I think. So good for you for finding that through Meg: Anyone is Brian: gratitude. Meg: One of these days when I get my first ink, maybe it'll be curious first assumpted last but Brian: curious for something else, at least like the the like the the slogan or you know the through line that you use. A agencies are always rebranding themselves that way. That sounds like a very like kind of ad agency approach. Meg: Well, it's it's so funny. I will apologize to all of your listeners and viewers that I'm coming to you from the car. But it is it's funny you mentioned brand. Like anybody that knows me knows that I take nine out of ten of my calls from the car. It's kind of become my brand. So we're in the brand tag right now. Brian: Huh. Nice. Yeah. It's it's like a radio call in Meg from the car. Yeah. Meg: Make from the car. Yeah. The long time listener. Brian: Nice. Well, I love that your environment kind of shaped your curiosity in that way and maybe your approach to kind of story. we've been talking about relationship shaping opportunity. is that something you've kind of had in your career that the people you've met or the people you've connected with have helped you get to the the next step or maybe maybe sent you in a direction? Meg: I mean a hundred percent. Who who amongst us lives in a world by themselves, right? Brian: Yeah, yeah. Meg: It's the I mean, I have I have there it's a double edged sword, right? I think anybody that works in media, Hollywood, TV, myriad of other industries too. I'm just talking about my lived experience. Like it's super cutthroat, there's a ton of pressure, you're only as good as your last show or your last thing. It it feels sometimes very transactional and the way to combat that is to see the people who are you who you're working with and build those relationships, right? I think it took me time to learn that. Like I don't know that I was that person at the beginning. I was just as cutthroat as anybody else I was working with. But I think I have a business coach. You should talk to her sometime. I have a business Brian: Nice. Meg: coach who recently told me, she said the privilege of a career well lived or not a life well, even a life well-lived, but the privilege is the people that will know you and speak your name in a room when you're not around. Because you have Brian: Yeah. Meg: built that connective tissue. And I have an immense amount of gratitude for the people who are in my network, many of whom are in the social fabric. You know, like that's it's currency that's that that exists in a different way. I projects come and go, money come comes and goes, but it's those relationships that are there for you in the good times and they buffer you in the bad times. And People speak your name in rooms and it matters. So yeah, I think that that human element is critical. Brian: my how you learn that as you go on your career, that decisions get made in rooms that you are not in all the time, right? And how you're represented in that room is in is it it can impact your career in in a number of ways. And and like you said, you learn it as you go. Like when I was younger in my career, I had no idea that was happening, right? That people would talk about me when I wasn't there. But now I know it happens all the time. Meg: I mean, I think you're onto something because we're taught to believe that we we proceed through life or we advance based on merit. And that's part of it. But in truth, there's a lot of Brian: Mm-hmm. Like table stakes. Meg: there's a lot of people that do what you and I do. So what's the differentiator? Brian: Mm-hmm. Meg: It's the it's the personality and it's the relationship. It's I can only talk as focus group of one here, but I I mean, the the world's gonna try and beat your best qualities out of you in so many ways. And I think it's a great privilege to be able to say, this is actually who I am as a human. I am transparently honest with you. These are the things that matter to me. I'm gonna live up to those values, and I'm gonna do that even at the expense of ooh, big shiny, because I know that there's a longer runway there. There's a play there that's gonna make sense. It and it's the people that See that and recognize that and all of us that stick around. Brian: Yeah, absolutely. and I'll land this back at the so social fabric, but like I I learned that through my career. I'll shout out Alan Shanzer, who I've had on this podcast, was ran Media Edge when I was there, and then Media Edge became wavemaker and it it you know it got swallowed into all the things, but we had such a great team at Media Edge. And he put me on a pitch one time for Choice Hotels, which is like a a a long tail of of of like motorway and roadway inns. but he told me he's like, people really like you, Brian. And I was like, okay, interesting. And then I saw that as a differentiator, right? Like I was a media planner and there were a ton of media planners. And I looked around New York and there were all media planners and they're all across the country. But I leaned on that because he helped me, or or he saw that in me, and then I saw it because he saw it in me. And I was like, charisma, how I get along with people, that's just as important as nailing the the stats. Or having the strategy or understanding the consumer. So it really helped me get there. and where that was gonna bring me was you, you, you made the comment about the social fabric. That's what we're trying to build, right? That support group that can help you understand how you're seen in the industry, can help you answer questions, can help you navigate events. I guess the question for you, long-winded, What is it about the social fabric? Like what did what what can you take away or what can you give? Like why why is this something you are interested in joining? Meg: So I think my answer is gonna be multifaceted there. the first one the Brian: No problem. It's a long it's a long format. Meg: I think the first part of the answer is so I'm not somebody too much information for all the viewers at home, but I am not somebody that keeps notifications on on my phone. So I I I actively have to choose to look at something because it's for me, that's how I manage my attention and my focus, right? So there will be several intersections during the day where I will open the WhatsApp group and I will feel so much joy in catching up with the posts because it There's a day where that person joined. That's amazing to see them here. This person is doing something else. There are the tactical questions. Who can help with this? How are we all feeling? Like the industry feels like it's on fire. No, no, no, it's okay. You know, it's like it's the space where there's shared awareness and being seen by friends and colleagues. It's being surprised by who's interested in what. it's Finding humor in moments. I mean the Joe Fez, right? Like we just for all of you who haven't seen that, go find the Joe Fez. But like Brian: Joe Epstein. Yeah, absolutely. Meg: it's I think I think there are so many good things that at least for me when I open it and I see that, I'm grateful for being included in that conversation. I think the next layer there is I remember somebody asking me once about competition in our industry. And the question was around. Like, why do you give away jobs to other people? And I s and my answer at the time was like, I d why wouldn't I give away a job to somebody who could do it better? And if I have a trusted group of people that I know and try well, trust twice. If I have a trusted group of people that I'm confident in their skill set, why not share the wealth? There is enough for all of us. We do not need to be in competition with each other. We should be supportive of each other because that comes, it feeds itself and it comes back around. Brian: Yeah, it does. Meg: And I really truly believe that. You know, there is a rising tide that raises all ships. And I think Brian: Hold on. Meg: the social fabric is it's a microcosm of that as as a process, as an idea, you know. Brian: Mm-hmm. I love that. it immediately made me think of coming up in digital media in nineteen ninety-nine, when you know, I was an agency and we were a line item that was like, okay, two thousand dollars for digital media, right? And we were like, Okay, we've got to build this industry. And you couldn't do it alone from the advertising side at the at the agency. You had to you had to work with publishers who were coming up and it was Yahoo and and I don't think Google was even around. yet, but it was like the Yahoos and the Lycos and who was doing research, who knew you know, how to sell this in, And and research as well. So it's like it's like media and research and and creative and sales side all kind of working together. And that's the first time I saw it where it's like, it's not competition. It's we are working to try to get this industry noticed and get it on a get it on a a a media plan so that we can all continue to to work together. And it was very collaborative. And I get the same sense with the social fabric now. It's like that communities I was building back then, early years in New York, that was so much fun. We did you worked really hard, but you had a ton of fun. That's what that's what a lot of people are missing, I think, about community right now. And social fabric is providing that for me. We had our first meetup in LA last week, and it was just so exciting to see faces in real life talking to people, having real conversations with people. And I'm I'm hoping that we can build on that and and continue to build on it. And I know. Atlanta is gonna be a focus for you, which is exciting. Are you excited about that? Yeah. Meg: I am. I mean, there's so much cute stuff happening here. You know, the community in Atlanta is it's interesting. You know, there's the the the native Atlantans that are unicorns and there's all the transplants and all the layers of culture. And, you know, it's I mean it's obviously a big film and T V hub. We've got great tax incentives which pull that here. And there's a lot of migration of the work coming here. so it's just I'm constantly surprised by the level of talent here. in the most positive of ways, you know, and you stumble across somebody who has a really interesting background and experience. And to your point about what the social fabric is, you know, there's I'm I'm not gonna suggest that there isn't value in other social media channels, but so many of them have become so commercialized and monetized that it's not about Brian: Yeah. Yeah. Meg: the humans anymore. You know, you're not asking The the fabric isn't asking members to be engaged in that kind of conversation, which by its very nature makes it more authentic. So I'm appreciative of that. Brian: Yeah, we're now outnumbered by the bots on all social networks. There's more bot traffic than there is human traffic. So is it for us anymore? I mean, these smaller communities seem to be what people are gravitating towards. as they need support, they need ideas, but also just that human interaction that we get from from from from just interacting with another human, which which we all love to do. And sometimes we forget how to do it, like when we go through pandemic but then we come back out and we're like, yeah, that's what I need. That's what I need right now. Meg: And there's also it's a space for, as I I r as I run the risk of sounding like an old lady, there's there's space for multi-generational transfer in there too. I mean that from all stages of career and development and experience. And what a gift that is, right? To be able to ask the group, hey, I'm unfamiliar with this thing, or I don't know about that, or can somebody point me in the right direction, or anybody have a hookup for this? Like just the amount of variety of experience. And, you know, I I had a mentor tell me once, he said, you're gonna get to a point in your career where it is your job to be a curator. And I said, No, no, no, it's not my like I'm I'm always gonna be an artist. He was like, No, you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. It will become your job to pass down knowledge and experience and to lift up. And I can see that happening in real time every time I engage with the WhatsApp, if I go to events, you know, I mean it's Again, what a privilege, right? Brian: Yeah. It's it's funny. It's it's almost like a flip switches, but you get more joy out of that now in whatever stage of the career we're in, of seeing people s succeed. Like I get a lot of joy out of seeing people succeed. And there was a time when I was way more competitive and I was trying to climb myself. But setting people up for success, seeing them have success is certainly some that that's where I am right now in my career. And that's that's really fulfilling to see. Well, I want to ask you the fun question that I've been asking everyone. Do you know the last time you danced, Meg? Meg: I do, and this will hearken back to another interview you've you've done on this podcast. Brian: Okay. Meg: Colleagues who shall remain unnamed. However, we were in a very tense moment trying to create a deliverable for a client, and the tension really needed to be let out of the room. And so in a very serious moment where one might expect the question to be, what do we need to do next? The question was, Do we need a dance break next? And that was the last time. Brian: Yeah. And did you mean it as a dance break or or did you just mean it as a break? Meg: No, a hundred percent a dance break, right? Brian: Nice. Yeah. True. Yeah. And what a simple expression of joy dance is. It's free. You can do it. It doesn't cost anything. I'm sure it really lightened the mood in the room. Meg: It was exactly what was needed. Everybody got out of their little zone and moved their bodies and had a laugh and yeah, Brian: Yeah. Meg: to your point. Brian: Well, you you mentioned your business coach or mentor. Is there anyone that you're kind of thinking of like that you want to bring into the social fabric or even bring into this podcast and kind of have a conversation with me? Is there anyone you want to nominate? Meg: Ooh, is there a limit? Can I just list off a bunch of people? Brian: You can list off a bunch of people, sure. We'll tag when we post it. Meg: I think you should talk to my friend Simon Sikorsky. I Brian: Okay. Meg: think you should talk to a guy named Harvey Cassell. There is an amazing woman named Miranda Mitchell that you should speak with. Brian: Nice. Meg: There is a fabulous DP and cinematographer who just does the most beautiful work and tells the most amazing human stories named Lara Aquel, who you should speak with. and then Jacob Motes of Port O'A should definitely be on the list. Brian: Wow. You definitely mentioned the most people. Congratulations. You are networked. Meg: You're welcome. Brian: You are networked. That's awesome. we'll definitely get in touch with them. Meg: Sounds good. Brian: Thank you so much for being a part of this conversation and calling in from from your car and taking taking some time to talk to us about the social fabric. We really appreciate having you on the podcast. Meg: I really enjoyed it. Thanks for the time. Brian: Awesome. It's great to hear. All right. And to the listeners out there, stay curious. Find your community.