Latest / Real Investor Radio Podcast / Ep 68 | From Real Estate to Real Fulfillment: Brad Chandler's Journey to Success and Self-Discovery

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Ep 68 | From Real Estate to Real Fulfillment: Brad Chandler's Journey to Success and Self-Discovery · Real Investor Radio Podcast

• Craig Fuhr (00:00) Craig Fure, Join again by the great Jack Bevere Jack good to see you. Jack BeVier (00:05) Good morning, sir. How you doing? Craig Fuhr (00:07) And I am well today. So excited to talk with you about a bunch of things today and get with our guest Brad Chandler today who I'll introduce in just a minute. Brad, you can feel free to jump in here at any point today. Jack and I usually like to start the show with kind of the topics of goings on. And I would be remiss if we Jack we didn't just visit quickly. What's been going on with the five year Treasury? It just hasn't been a fun time over the last since September the 18th, Jack, when everybody was talking about the big fed rate cut coming, you know, pal in the FOMC come in, drop rate, drop the overnight by 50 bips. And today, about a month and a half later, we are now 80 bips up. on the five year jacket eclipse 4.3 % today, which is not great news for folks who are doing DSCR loans right now as all of those loans are indexed off of the five year bonds. So, Jack, what are your thoughts? I you just attended a couple conferences, you said the you said they had to put the knives away there for fear that folks might start slashing their wrists. I don't know if you actually said that, but you said it was pretty down. Give me something good to think about here on the five year. Jack BeVier (01:27) Yeah, sure. So yeah, been kind of a frustrating past 60 days as the cost of borrowing has gone up 80 basis points for for long term rental investors. Because as the markets started to come around to the idea that Trump was going to win the White House and maybe that the elections may have read a red sweep, which is what we've seen concerns over inflation going back out of control. because of tariffs and potential unchecked spending have really kind of sent the bond rates higher. At the same time, there's probably been a bond sell-off because the market's really excited about a Trump presidency and so equities are going through the roof. So people seem to be selling their bonds, using that to buy equity, buy Bitcoin, and that's made the cost of borrowing go up. All the while, The Fed keeps telling us that inflation is under control, that we're landing this plane nice and soft. last week did another 25 basis point rate drop. And at the moment, markets pricing in another 25 basis point rate drop at the next meeting. So getting a little bit of conflicting messages there, right? The Fed says everything's fine, but the markets don't exactly agree in terms of inflation being quelled. So hopefully this settles out. Cause right now I feel it's like kind of worse to both worlds, right? Like usually, you know, and showings have been down the past 60, 90 days as well. So usually when we've got high interest rate costs, it's because we've got a super strong economy and the, and we've got, and as a result, a strong consumer who's buying houses right now, we have a soft consumer market. where consumer spending is down showings for houses are down and When you if you see if you want to go and refi that property and rent it and live to see another day your costs of borrowing are super high so we're kind of getting it from all sides right now and See at these conferences the the mood was a general mild depression for those reasons with Yeah with the debate being whether this is gonna be a long winter or Craig Fuhr (03:41) bit of a bit of a malaise. Jack BeVier (03:49) that rates are going to start to come back down and that the spring is going to be, you know, daisies and roses. So, that, was generally the, the, the, main topic of conversation. Craig Fuhr (04:01) listening to a interview yesterday with Bill Ackman, famed investor and certainly not a MAGA guy, but really sort of came around at the end of the election there and endorsed Trump. And I was, you know, he's generally fairly reserved in his comments, measured. And I was surprised to hear him say, he said, you know, for the first time in a decade or two, I'm excited to be an American again. And I thought that was interesting from a guy like that who spends his time basically buying crappy companies and, you know, turning around the management, the numbers. I think we have, look, you know, the country is obviously quite divided over the election results. And I think, you know, not standing on any side here, but I think when a new administration comes in, any new administration, there's always there's always that optimistic hope that we can turn the Titanic as you like to say, Jack, and you know, the Titanic, this is the biggest Titanic in the world. And so it takes a while to swing the thing even 25 degrees to some direction. And so I'm excited to see what happens. I think there's a there's a mood of optimism. And so we'll see what that portends for the investing market. Jack BeVier (05:21) Yeah, the- ahead Brad. BradChandler.com (05:21) I'm no economic expert, right? I'm just a guy who buys some houses, but I think that inflation, the huge driver in inflation is transportation costs, right? Fuel costs. And I know when Trump left office, I think we were energy independent for the first time, maybe ever, but in a long time. And so if that comes back, hopefully that's going to be a big driver in the reduction of inflation. Craig Fuhr (05:48) agreed. It's baked into the cost of everything, right? From the apples in the grocery store to the gasoline you put in your car to the BradChandler.com (05:52) Mm. I went and bought my daughter a she wanted to go to Ben and Jerry's I want to go to Baskin Robbins last night so that the the well we compromise I went by Safeway and got her a pint of Ben and Jerry's ice cream like milk and cookies $6 and 79 cents for a pint I'm like I used to get by this couple years ago it's $4 I was like man this is so expensive and now it's almost $7 for a pint of ice cream Craig Fuhr (06:01) Who won? Jack, that brings me back to the comment on the economy, you know, that they've gotten inflation under control. I just don't believe that the average American feels that. I don't believe that when you walk into a store and an onion costs a dollar or, you know, I bought an avocado yesterday and it was $1.89 for one avocado. And so I just don't believe that the average American feels that we've got inflation under control and this thing's going to come in for a smooth landing. In fact, I think most people are predicting a recession next year. I've read countless stories on that. I don't know how you come out of one of the strongest yield inversions ever, I'm sorry, and not get a recession for the first time in history. And so I'm anxious to see how we land this plane. Jack BeVier (07:14) Yeah, like that's the that's a big difference, right? Big distinction between how the Fed is, you know, measuring inflation, which is the pace of increases and how the consumer feels about it. And we've you know, we've recently experienced as far as the US is concerned, you know, some historic inflation levels. so the Fed, but the Fed will tell you like, yeah, but they're not still going up. Right. Like it's yeah, yeah, your ice cream is 680. But it's but it was eight. But it was only 660 last year. And the consumer is like, Craig Fuhr (07:37) Right. Jack BeVier (07:44) But that's all not okay. None of that is okay. Like that is, you know, that does not mean that that is unsustainable levels like that we are that we are constantly unsustainable levels is not good news. And the feds like, No, no, no, we've got it like everything's fine. And the consumer is still draining, you know, bleeding out. So you know, I think you saw that at the polls, you know, frankly, that as a result. Craig Fuhr (08:07) Yeah, it was a historic election indeed. In fact, I just read yesterday that Trump got more votes than any GOP candidate in the history of the country. And so I think that was a resounding mandate, certainly from, you know, mostly every county in the United States, you know, so interesting, interesting night. Jack BeVier (08:32) The point. So the, the appointments that have just started to be announced, the nominations are really like a very, very interesting, right? Like I think you can get to your point of if you're, if you're a Trump policy person, we're gonna, I think everyone agrees, we're gonna see some real changes. Like you didn't, you don't put this cast on the bench and expect business as usual. This is an anything but business as usual cast of characters that he's putting up that he's nominating for, for his cabinet posts. so, yeah, if you're, if you're a Trump policy guy, you've got some optimism right now that he's going to come in here, you know, guns blazing on, on day one. Craig Fuhr (09:11) Quick comment on that. Everybody, all the political pundits have been saying that we need this new era of young and vibrant energy. And as I look at the ages of most of the people that he's already appointed for nomination, I think the average age is like 42. You know, Matt Gaetz is 44. I think the Secretary of Defense, Hegseth is, I he's like 40. know, Elon and Vivek are both 39, 40 years old. So there's a lot of young, vibrant energy. I think a guy like Matt Gaetz knows where all the bodies are buried. And he's probably one of the only guys in the entire in all of Congress that takes no PAC money whatsoever. So he's not really owned by anyone should be an interesting time at the DOJ should be interesting. That guy is like, he's gonna, he's like a flamethrower. So yeah, so let's bring in our guest today. Brad Chandler. Jack BeVier (10:07) It's gonna be, yeah. Craig Fuhr (10:19) of Express Home Buyers and Limitless You. We will talk about both and just really honored to have you on the show, Brad. I think you are one of the great trailblazers in our business. One of the great, great wholesalers of all time. One of the early adopters. I mean, just there's just too many things I like about Brad Chandler to go into now. We'll get into them all on the show today. But welcome to the show, man. Honored to have you. It's great to have you, man. BradChandler.com (10:47) Thank you for having me and thank you for those kind words. Craig Fuhr (10:51) So dude, can't, you know, we could take this conversation in any direction, but let's start off with Express. And then we'll kind of jump into the whole history and sort of, you know, how you've grown it over the years. Express Home Buyers operates out of Northern Virginia. Brad co-founded the company in 2003, And so tell us about like, BradChandler.com (11:15) Yeah. Craig Fuhr (11:18) the how the why you decided to start that business and sort of the trajectory of it over the years. BradChandler.com (11:27) Yeah. So I read a book when I was in ninth grade on how to buy real estate with no money down. And, it was actually Robert Allen. He remember Robert Allen, he's still out there. I actually got to after 30 years, I got to meet him at the family mastermind last year. It was a real honor. So he started me, that book started me on the trajectory of real estate because he made it obvious that there was unlimited income to be made in real estate. So that was the reason I got into real estate. Craig Fuhr (11:36) Absolutely. He's still out there. BradChandler.com (11:55) is to make a lot of money. as the conversation goes on, you'll understand why I wanted to make lot of money. Craig Fuhr (12:01) Did you do deals prior to express or was that the first sort of venture into and was it did you start off like with the mindset of wholesaling or were you were BradChandler.com (12:12) No, it's really, it's actually funny. So I, a neighbor bought my an investor bought my neighbor's house, a local investor in late 2002. And this this house was sitting right next to me, which was a gold mine. It was all messed up. I had no idea that you could buy and fix and sell it. So I went and talked to him after he fixed it up. And he's like, Yeah, I buy houses below market, I fix them up and I resell them. So I decided in late 2002, that's what I was going to do. And my son was born in July. So I was working for this developer at the time and I would come home at six o'clock. I'd spend six to eight o'clock with him, put him to bed. And then I would, I'd spend like eight to 11 every night, whether it was pounding me by houses signs on telephone poles or handing out door hangers or literally I hand addressed hundreds, maybe thousands of envelopes to, you know, sellers. And it took me, I decided in December of 2003, was December of 2002, I was going to do this. It wasn't until July of 2003, I bought my first house. But I worked really hard and I kept going to these meetings, these real meetings. And I saw these wholesalers and I saw these investors and the wholesalers would hold up their checks. And you talk about, you know, making five grand because that's what a good wholesale fee was back in 2003. And so my mind went to, this is my ego, went to wholesalers are the uneducated. Wholesalers are the ones who don't have any money and they need to do this. I can go raise some money. The smart people rehab houses. So from let me finish this story and then I'll get back to the to the rehabbing. didn't start wholesaling until 2017 because I thought you couldn't make any money in wholesaling. thought it was a small fees. So I bought my first house in July, I bought six houses in July and August because of my efforts. It was like a snowball. And then in October, I went to my boss at the time. And I said I quit. And I came home and I told my wife at the time, I just quit and I'm starting express home buyers. And she's like, Hey, have you lost your mind? We have a newborn and I have two kids like you're, you're the sole provider. You're supporting them and you just quit. I didn't even tell her. was like, it'll be fine. And we're not still married, but it was all fine. Cause here we are 20 something years later and 4,500 flips. yeah, that was my story. Craig Fuhr (14:19) Yes. So when you first started off and the snowball got going, were you just doing like direct mail, postcards? What were you doing to get the phone ringing? BradChandler.com (14:39) I had a negative $80,000 net worth from University of Wisconsin MBA. So I didn't have a lot of money. So I was doing everything that didn't cost money, which is, you know, or little money, which is, you know, the we buy houses, signs, direct mail, the door hangers, and then just networking. My first, my first really good deal was a house that I found on a Yahoo listserv. If you're 20 something listening to this, you're like, what the hell is he talking about? There used to be listservs where if you wanted a real estate investment, was basically just a, it was almost like a text group, but an email group. And so I made a, I made this lady an offer on this three four, bedroom house in Manassas park in March of that year. Cause remember I started doing in December. So March, I made her an offer. It was way too high, but I didn't know. And then in July her, just kept in touch with her agent and her agent called me she goes, well, since, since you're a foreclosure expert, I called you because she's five days away from foreclosure. I'm like, no problem. I can handle that. I hung up the phone. I'm like, my God, what have I gotten myself into? So I called the guy that I kept in touch with. I'm a master networker that bought that my neighbor's house, John Peterson, you may know him local investor, and he runs his run a real group for like 25 years, Ernie Kessler. I don't know if that name is an old timer. So he and Ernie were partners. And then Ernie passed away and he took over. So I called him and he goes, here's all you have to do, Brad. Jack BeVier (15:39) Thank Craig Fuhr (15:55) yeah, sure. BradChandler.com (16:03) He goes, if you don't have any money, just give her a couple thousand dollars, put the house in a land trust, take it subject to. And I'm like, those words back then were like, what the hell did you just say? I had no idea what he was talking about, but somehow I pulled it off. And I think I made like $43,000 on that house. Yeah. And, and, and six months later, I was six months prior to that. My job was paying me $60,000 a year. So I made $43,000 on a house and I'm like, Whoa. Craig Fuhr (16:12) speaking in a foreign language. crazy. BradChandler.com (16:32) I just put like five or 10 hours into this. made $43,000. So I was like, I got to get a little bit of money in the bank. So I think I saved up like 60 grand and then I had 60 grand in the bank in October. I still had the negative, the $80,000 worth of debt, but I had 63. And so I felt rich and that's when I quit and move forward. Craig Fuhr (16:44) course. Jack BeVier (16:48) Did that get you off the couch at home from sleeping on the couch that payday? Craig Fuhr (16:48) Jack and I, Jack and I speak. Go ahead, Jack. BradChandler.com (16:54) yeah. I, yeah, I was never on the couch. She, she, she, she never put me on the couch. Craig Fuhr (16:56) Yeah. Jack BeVier (16:59) That's good. That's good. Craig Fuhr (17:00) guest bedroom. He was in the guest bedroom jack. Jack Do you remember the very first house you ever bought with with dominion? Can you go back that far? Come on, man. BradChandler.com (17:04) Haha, yeah. Jack BeVier (17:12) I don't I remember the first I remember my mistakes. I remember my early mistake. I remember the first contract I had to default on because I screwed up. But I can't remember the first house actually the losses are easier to remember than the wins you know. Craig Fuhr (17:23) One of the things I, one of the things I never had a chance to ask you, Jack was, you know, dominion properties buys, quite a few houses at the courthouse steps. And, back when I worked with Jack in 2015, 16, I remember Jack would come into his office every single morning. he would go through all of the auctions in every County. And it was just like, you know, that you went out and took some pictures like BradChandler.com (17:27) Okay. Craig Fuhr (17:51) You were never inside of any of those houses that you bid on at the steps pretty much right jack. Jack BeVier (17:57) well, no, we did a fair amount of breaking and entering, but, fortunately never got any trouble with it. Yeah. We, know, but yeah, you do a lot of, you do a lot of bidding, bidding blind. Craig Fuhr (18:02) for the law enforcement listening right. How many of those, how many of those do you think like percentage wise that like maybe paid too much, you know, just looking at the exterior pictures, like was it always pretty safe or do feel like you overpaid in too many instances? BradChandler.com (18:16) Hmm. Jack BeVier (18:24) I mean, you know, it's like a mining operation, right? So like, and, or, you're, gambling, right? You're gambling based off of interior condition based off all the clues. you're, you know, you're putting together, you know, doing drive by of a house and trying to put a narrative together in your head based off of what you see on the outside. Like, you know, is this a, is this an original grandma house? Was this a, a DIY renovation back in 2006? That's, that's finally defaulted. There's a tenant occupied, you know, out of town landlord, you know, you, put all these narratives in your head when you're looking at the outside to try to guess at the, what the interior condition might be. And sometimes, sometimes you're wrong, right? You just, you get inside and then you realize there's a roof and turns out, Hey, there was a roof leak right in the very middle of the house and you can see up to the sky. And, you know, even though there's, you know, vinyl replacement windows and landlord, you know, yeah, yeah. So. Craig Fuhr (19:15) Right. Brand new condenser outside. BradChandler.com (19:18) Yeah. Jack BeVier (19:20) I mean, sometimes you gamble and lose, but yeah, I think that was kind of the, the idea behind the mentality behind buying houses based off of exterior only is that you, you know, you want to make sure that you're winning more than you're losing, but you need to just be okay with losing from time to time because otherwise you'll be too conservative and you won't buy anything. So, walking that walk in that line is the, that's the art of it. Craig Fuhr (19:45) So one of the things that we don't get a big chance to do here on the show is kind of get the trajectory and the whole story of the, you know, from then till now. And that's one of the things I'm most excited to talk to you about today, is so you buy the first one, you get six more under contract, you're off and running. How's that first year go for you? BradChandler.com (20:10) So in October, I met my partner. So was looking for a partner this whole time, but man, there's a lot of shady people in this business. I mean, I can remember. So you talk about the mistakes. I can remember talking to some partners and one of the partners, my potential partners brought me this house deal and it was like his aunt. And he was like, yeah, I think she'll take this, but I think I'd get her down like 20. He said something, but I was like, dude, this is your aunt. And so I'd been looking for a partner that whole time. and in June, Jack BeVier (20:33) Yeah. BradChandler.com (20:38) of excuse me in October of 2003 is when I met or maybe it was September I met my partner that's still my partner, John Allen. And we I put a we buy houses sign on like the second house I bought the first house that I just told you about. Ron LeGrand or no, Robert Scheman or someone told me to put a we buy houses sign in the front yard. So I did that. And this lady calls me one night on a Friday night and she'd been drinking. And I could tell she'd been drinking. She's like, I'm a truck driver. I just saw that house Manassas Park is at for sale. I go, it's already sold. But Robert Sheen said, you ask everyone this question. Do you know anyone else who wants to sell their house? So I asked her instead of hanging up on her on a Friday night. I asked her she goes, my mom has a house in Arlington. In South Arlington. She wants to sell it. I go how much is how she's like, it's a three bedroom two bath brick rambler. She lives in North Carolina. It's vacant. I was like, how much does she want? said, she goes, I think she wants $220,000. But I think I can get her down. is her mom. So she calls me back and she goes, Yeah, she'll sell it for 185 185 in Arlington. Even then I was just like, I've got something. So that house I put a we buy houses sign. So Judd lives in that neighborhood. He's like, I can't believe you can buy houses in my neighborhood. He's like, I thought you can only buy houses like this in Woodbridge. So he just cold calls me. We go to Edie's this Latino chicken and steak place that has the best chickens, freakin sandwiches in the world. And over lunch. he had a couple thousand dollars and I had zero and I told him my plan to be this national home buying company and I wanted to run TV advertising and I needed money and I wanted a quality life. So we formed a partnership. our partnership actually started in October. So that first year, your question, it was, it was chaotic. It was, were both doing the same exact roles and a couple of months into it, I came in I was like, why are we doing this? Like, hang on, let me handle the acquisitions. Craig Fuhr (22:21) Mm-hmm. BradChandler.com (22:31) you handle the construction and the finance, then that's how it's kind of been for 22 years. He still kind of runs, I don't do a whole lot now, but he's still kind of is on the construction and finance. And then each, we just started hiring just like any company. We hired an admin was our first hire, I think. And then when I got too busy, I hired a home buying specialist and we just started, we were terrible at it, but we started writing systems and processes. Craig Fuhr (22:53) You're one of the first guys I know who started doing television ads. What year was that? And, you know, what was your experience there, man? Because my whole theory on wholesaling is that it's just a big marketing operation, right? It's marketing and follow-up, marketing and follow-up, marketing and follow-up. And I think you've... You've really perfected that, it couldn't have been, it had to be a little rocky at the start and it had to be a massive gamble on your part to be, yeah, I'm going to put a massive chunk of budget down per month on television ads. BradChandler.com (23:31) It really wasn't because we didn't have we didn't have any money. Literally, he had $10,000 to his name because he had done a couple. He actually started a couple months prior to me. He's the guy that actually showed up. He took some real estate program. He didn't even go to a title company to close his first deal. He literally drafted the deed in a library. So yeah, that's Judd. So no, we didn't have any money. I can remember literally buying spots for $15 a spot. Craig Fuhr (23:33) I'm glad to be wrong. Thank you. you BradChandler.com (24:00) back in 2003 or early 2004. So we probably started, my experience was my father in 1980, 80, about 1980 was an attorney and he went to his two partners and somehow he had the idea to TV advertise and his two partners looked at him and said, you can't TV advertise in legal business. That is completely unethical. Like it's like an ambulance chaser and he's like, screw you. So he went and found two partners, Jerry Franklin and Wayne O'Brien. And he started this law firm Chandler Franklin and O'Brien. And in the early eighties, he started advertising and he built a very successful practice on on TV advertising. So I thought, hell, I've never ever seen a TV commercial for selling your house. My dad's been doing it for years. I'm going to call this small little shop that does his stuff in Harrisonburg, Virginia for $1,200. They created the jingle. Maybe the best $1,200 I ever spent in my life. Express Home Buyers will buy your house in seven days. $1,200 that jingle. If you ask 10 people in DC Metro, I bet you six, seven, eight of them will sing that jingle for you. So no, was, it was overnight spots. Some of them we got for 10 bucks, five bucks. And we probably started with like a $2,000 budget. Now, could you do that now in DC? The Metro or any major Metro? No, you're probably looking at a minimum of 15, $20,000 a month. Jack BeVier (25:08) Thank Craig Fuhr (25:24) Yeah. So what year was it that you decided to do the television? so this started happening very, very quickly for you. BradChandler.com (25:29) 2003. I don't it could happen quickly. Like I'm like, let's go. You got $10,000. I'm calling the station. Let's go. Jack BeVier (25:31) It's so early. was so I think it was so early right like when did you start to see other competitors get on TV I remember when you and I met like whatever was like 2012 11 something like there like we were like you're on TV like we were just starting to think about do direct mail just because we lived off the courthouse for so long and we're like these guys are on television already like holy shit Craig Fuhr (25:56) You BradChandler.com (26:02) Yeah, I can't remember to be candid with you. I think one of the local competitors probably started around the same time, but then we didn't see another one for, I mean, a decade. don't know. Jack BeVier (26:14) Yeah, that's wild. Craig Fuhr (26:15) Yeah, I mean, I will tell anybody who's listening that's not in the DC, Maryland, Virginia, the DMV, as we call it. If you're in that area, you know, express home buyers, you there's there's not, you're not going to not know, express home buyers to your credit, Brad. And so the crazy thing is, and Jack, no one would love this more than you, because it's always, you know, Jack will start anything small and build it into something big. and your persistence is incredible. But the just it's never stopped. You know, you've never you've never you never stopped advertising on television since then have you? BradChandler.com (26:53) We never have. mean, look, actually, let me take that back in the 2008 crash. We stopped because we didn't have to in 2000. In February of 2010, I think we bought 24 houses without spending a dime in marketing and we bought them all off MLS bank and properties. Craig Fuhr (26:58) Mm-hmm. All Sure. It was like shooting fish in a barrel back then. BradChandler.com (27:14) But it wasn't long that we were off. And even when we were off, people would call us and they'd be like, I just saw you on TV. And they'd sing our jingle. And we didn't say this, but we like, no, we haven't been on TV in like nine months. Jack BeVier (27:24) persistence in marketing is so like, so important though, right? And like, like you said, it's hard, it's harder and it's harder today to start from scratch, but it's always hard to start from scratch. Right. And people usually, most people give up within the first six months, you know, 90, you know, 95 % give up in the first two years. And then the, the remaining 5 % of the ones that are still left standing after five or 10 year or in your case, 20 plus years. BradChandler.com (27:28) Thank Yeah, it's always hard. Business is hard. I mean, just, just as you guys know this. Craig Fuhr (27:51) So when do things really start to take off for you and now it's becoming like this unwieldy machine that has to be fed and what did the ad spend get up to? BradChandler.com (28:01) hundreds. I mean, years, years later, hundreds of 1000s. I remember in 2005, the first five months of 2005, we on paper netted like a million and a half dollars. And so my ego is like, shit, these people in this business are dumb. They don't know what they're doing. I'm going to be retired here soon. And then in the summer of Craig Fuhr (28:02) or just the marketing budget, I should say. per month. BradChandler.com (28:24) 2005, we bought three development deals and ended up costing us $3 million that we lost. And one of them took us like 10 years to extract ourselves from. Craig Fuhr (28:32) So what that was completely new for you guys, you had never done anything like that before. BradChandler.com (28:36) never done anything. mean, it was it look in hindsight, it's tied into why I said I wanted to make a lot of money. Because my childhood, the meanings I placed on the events from my childhood told me my subconscious told me that I wasn't enough. And then I need I wasn't worthy I needed to prove it. So I thought money was the way to do that. My dad showed his love through money. And there was a lot of turmoil around money in my family growing up. So I thought that, you know, I had to make a lot of money. And so why in the summer of 2005 that I get into three development deals, it was 100 % my past childhood shut. It was It was a house in North Arlington that we could have looked at a title report in 15 minutes and said, we can't subdivide this house. We lost 934,000 hours there. And then we bought two multi units. One, we were just like, we'll just put another level on it. We literally bought the house saying we'll put another level on it without even checking with zoning. And zoning is like, no, you're not. And then we bought a six unit at Adams Morgan to convert it to condos all in like two months. Craig Fuhr (29:33) Ugh. BradChandler.com (29:38) And again, looking back, they were all driven by if you can make this work, if you can even make more, then you'll be worthy. But when you have this underlying limiting belief that so many human beings have that we're not enough, it doesn't matter if you have $10, a million dollars or $100 million in the bank, it doesn't affect that at all. And once you can heal that, which I've been able to do in the last three years, then the chances of you making money actually go up because you're not making money to make yourself feel better. You're making money because you have a purpose or you're trying to impact someone. Craig Fuhr (30:14) You know, when you and I met 2017-ish, I think it was around there, I saw a lot of that in you. You know, I don't think you would verbalize it back then, but... I did see a lot of that. There was this guy who wanted to be the CEO or sort of the owner of the company, hire a CEO to take care of the day to day. And, you know, to be on so that you could be out on your private plane and your big yacht. And it felt like this sort of endless search to find that person. When in fact, I'm not sure anybody would have done done the right job for you back then. You know, BradChandler.com (30:52) for endless search was the key there. you will search the rest of your life. If you think that something outside of yourself is going to bring you joy, peace or happiness. It won't. And so many people hear this and be like, well, you've got money. So it's easy to say, no, in this situation, I'm 100 % right. I don't have to be right. I don't you can keep living your your life the way you you are. But man, do I see it everywhere, especially in the real estate business. These guys get into this business. They don't care about real estate. I never cared about real estate. What I cared about was making a bunch of money. And they think that by making a bunch of money, it's going to change things. It might change things, but not in the way that you think it's going to change them. You're not going to ever find this peace and, and inner happiness and joy from looking at and I looked at everything outside. used to use marijuana on a regular basis. I used to drink on a regular basis. You know, my two marriages didn't work. I had kids with behavioral problems, all as a result of this inner turmoil. And I kept searching for all the answers outside the yacht taken by the yacht when I'm not even never even owned a boat in my life and 60 days later, taking it to the Bahamas, I tried to get it there. And I didn't even know how to read a chart like. But I thought I didn't wake up and say, let me go buy a yacht, because I'll feel better. But my subconscious mind that drives 95 % of our behavior was telling me, if you go buy this and go up and down the coast with some pretty girls and take some pictures, people are going to really think you're something and you're going to feel better about yourself. Well, guess what you don't. Craig Fuhr (32:24) So I want to keep getting into that, but I've been to your offices at Express Home Buyers a lot. just get back to that quickly. Express Home Buyers is there are a lot of wholesalers in this country. And we touched on it earlier in the episode where I think there's this sort of mindset that, or at least there was, that wholesaling was sort of the first rung of the real estate investing ladder. you know, attend a 10 some seminar on a weekend and you can become a wholesaler with next to no money. I think that a lot of that has changed just through the maturation of the industry. But but what you grew there was something really, frankly unique from the marketing that you did. I think you're a marketing genius. And through, you know, just your vision. You know, Express Home Buyers is in a Class A office space in Northern Virginia. You have a lovely office there. The work that you guys do there with the processes and everything that you put in place is truly top notch. And so one of the questions I had was, did you really like, when it's really humming, you know, how many leads are you guys generating a month? You know, what's your conversion rate on that kind of stuff? I think it's interesting to talk about that for guys that are listening who want to scale their wholesaling business. BradChandler.com (33:47) I mean, anywhere from three to 500 leads and you know, we convert. I mean, look, we've been in business for 22 years, right? one out of eight to 10 appointments, leads to appointments or contracts. And I mean, it's probably been, I don't even know because so much, we, had some, we had infusion soft for a long time. That's a CRM. It was so bad that we didn't even track much stuff, but it probably like goes up to 20, 20 leads per contract. Craig Fuhr (34:16) Jack, how does that compare with what Dominion Properties is doing? Jack BeVier (34:20) Yeah, it's super similar. Yeah, it's what one in one in eight to 10 appointments ends up in a contract and then you hope the thing gets to settlement. Yeah, there's not some estate issue or title issue. Yeah, almost the same. Craig Fuhr (34:33) What are you seeing right now, Brad, in the market in Northern Virginia and the areas that you're in, in terms of buyers, showings, prices? BradChandler.com (34:36) Thank I mean, it's just, yeah. Yeah, we haven't seen anything in prices come down yet. But I just went to the office for the first time yesterday in like eight months. And they said things are starting to sit the prices haven't come down yet. But but things listed properties are sitting longer than they were two months ago. Craig Fuhr (34:53) Nice. Yeah, for the folks that are listening, we'd to your comments on what you're seeing in your local markets as well. We're definitely seeing some softening Jack, what are you seeing right now? Jack BeVier (35:13) Yeah. Likewise, the, showing activity for retail properties really started to dry up 60, 75 days ago. And so stuff's building up on the MLS, which is actually interestingly made for some, we, we, we bought a couple off the MLS recently, which was the first time in five years, six years that we've been to do that. But it also means that the wholesale market is a little thinner, right? Cause retail or, flipping besters are seeing that. You know, they're seeing their own inventory build up a little bit or seeing that they only got one offer instead of three. and so they should, and I think they have, you know, the smart ones have started to adjust their as is. But, you know, buying targets down a little bit to accommodate for that, for that extra carry and, and risk. So I'm feeling that the, the as is market has gotten less liquid over the past 60 days, as well. which is leading me to one, you know, like I'm getting out of some stuff as opposed to like, you know, happy to get my deposit back on certain, uncertain buys because you know, we thought we were going to be able to wholesale it for 10, 15 up. And now we're like, you put it out there and it's like, want your deposit back and someone step in your shoes and that's happening from time to time. So I feel a little bit of a slide right now in as is pricing because of that. you know, there's, there's a lot of folks though, who think that this is the worst of it. and that the spring is going to be great and that we're all making a mistake because you know what you should, you should be leaning in right now, right? Like the, you know, the, the concern that I have, you know, smart investors smell blood, right? When people start talking like I'm talking and, sometimes they're right. And they, know, you lean in in those situations. So I understand that perspective for sure. BradChandler.com (36:46) Thank Craig Fuhr (36:57) Are you seeing less competition, Jack, in terms of other investors? Jack BeVier (37:02) Hardly right like it feels like everyone's dropped their prices a little bit on the as is side or like taking a step back and they're doing less because they're not recycling their money as quickly. So like they're all still there like when we go to you you see me mentioned the courthouse like we've always we've gone to the courthouse every day for the past you know 20 22 years but but they're still like 15 20 people there and a lot of stuff is going well over our our buy numbers still so. It's not like we've seen competition fall out. It's just like everyone's just on a relative basis, a a little weaker, a little more timid than they used to be, but they're all still there. So you're not getting like, you know, you're not hitting doubles. Everyone's still like happy with a standup single is for the most part when I'm seeing. Craig Fuhr (37:51) Yeah. Man, I brought I really want to jump into what you're passionate about now. For some who are listening, it might get a little, you know, touchy feely. But I feel like, you know, between the three of us, we've met a lot of guys and gals over the last 20 years of being in the business. And if you're perceptive enough, and you really listen to people, I think you'll find where the real cracks are. without them even telling you. And I just think there's a lot of guys out there who have these very large egos that are being fed by something other than, you know, their love of real estate. And what they find is that exactly what you just said, no matter how big the business gets or how much money they tend to put in their pockets, they're still equally as unhappy if not even more than they were when they started, you know, and, and truth be told, I'm probably one.