Latest / The Overland Journal Podcast / Capturing Africa: The Life and Lens of Safari Expert Andy Biggs

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Capturing Africa: The Life and Lens of Safari Expert Andy Biggs · The Overland Journal Podcast

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Overland Journal podcast. I'm your
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: host Scott Brady. My co host Matt Scott is driving
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: around the mountains of Colorado, I believe right now, so
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: he'll be back with us in a couple of weeks.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: But today I've got a good friend of mine, somebody
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: that I've known for almost a decade. He is a
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: certified safari guide, serial entrepreneur, a professional photographer, makes some
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: of the most beautiful images that I've ever seen, extremely
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: striking photographs, and a good friend, fellow g wagon lover.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: And we've traded car We've traded cars back and forth
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: a few times. Andy Biggs. Thank you Andy for being
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: on the show today. Thanks for having me.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: We have spent many hours talking the widest ranges of conversations,
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: from philosophical to safaris in Africa. But what Andy specializes
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: in is the spoke African travel and that is that
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: is where his primary focus is right now. But and
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: you also started Gura Gear, which is a camera bag company.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: You were involved with tam Rack. You've been a sponsored
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: shooter for Phase one. So we've got lots of interesting
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: things to talk about today. But I think it would
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: be fun to start off with. Give us a little
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: background on what shifted you from whatever point in your
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: life that you were living the American dream, doing the
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: day to day thing to becoming an adventurer to becoming
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: the traveler that you are today. What was that shifting
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: point for you? For doing this without a campfire and
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: a beer. That's a problem for me. It actually was
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: in my corporate consulting world. I used to travel and
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: that gets addictive. And you get on a plane and
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: you go somewhere and you experience new new people, new cuisine,
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: just new things, and it's very addictive, it is. And
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: then at some point I reached the end of that
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: kind of corporate world and I went on a six
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: week long African safari. It was a one week Kilimanjaro
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: tract and it was a safari for a few weeks,
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: and it was going to Zanzibar and sitting on the
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: beaches for a week, walking through the narrow streets of
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: stonetown Sanzibar, and then going over to Kenya and then
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: spending more time in the bush.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: And it opened up like this huge world for me
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: because it wasn't just an experiential world. It was one
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: that I could also use with a camera, and so
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: I had a camera with me, and that was the excuse.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: It's the reason to go somewhere. And then now you've
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: got these memories on your memory card that you can
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: tick with you, and then you can sell prints and
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: it just kind of fuels the passion and it keeps going, and.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: It keeps going, and it keeps going. And what was
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: that transition like? So you're a software consultant and you
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: decide this isn't the life for me. You know, we
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: talked a little bit about this earlier today when we
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: were having breakfast, but we talked about this idea of
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: architecting a life. Architecting, I mean, lifestyle is what's commonly
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: referred to, but let's just call it what it is,
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: which is really architecting a life that allows you to
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: see the world and make a living. For those that
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: are listening that would maybe have the same aspirations, what
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: was that process like for you? What did you give
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: up in order to make that transition? What do you
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: think were some of the good decisions that you made
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: along the way that helped facilitate that great questions.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: I think I'm going to start off by saying that
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: a very uniquely North American way of living is driven
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: by income, yeah, and buying things. And I do admit
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: that I love nice things and I do love earning well,
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: but I also recognize that there's a balance. It's hard
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: to find this balance where you can provide for your
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: family and you can save, but you can also live
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: a life of adventure at the same time, And so
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: how do you balance that out? And that's kind of
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: that elusive goal, right, So that's been my goal, is,
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: you know, how can I provide, How can I get
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: that need for travel, that that need for being outdoors.
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: That's really what drives me. I love the African bush,
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: but I also love the rocky mountains and other parts
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: of the world. But I love smelling fresh air. I
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: love being outdoors. There's something so healing about it is
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: It's like there's you know, the two biggest categories of
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: poetry in the world is about love and nature, you know,
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: for a reason. Yeah. Yeah, And so in two thousand
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: and two, I was wrapping up my time in that
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: kind of what I considered be that paycheck driven life,
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: which is like every two weeks, twice a month, you
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: get that hit that dopamine, Like, oh it, my direct
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: deposit hit my account. Ooh awesome, someone values me for
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: my work. Yeah, but at the end of the day,
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: you're still living for the weekends, right, you're still living
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: for the weekends. That I was living out in the
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: San Francisco Bay area, and that, I mean, that was
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: like the best place on earth to fuel that passion
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: for the outdoors because within a two hour drive, three
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: hour drive, you can go a lot of places, very
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: interesting places. Now you can go from the Sierra Nevada Range,
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: but you can go from the ocean to the Sierra
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: Nevada Range. You can go from the desert, you can
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: go to the to the redwood forests, you know, the
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: wine country. Everything you know. And so that taught me
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: from a camera standpoint, to be creative outdoors. And then
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: it just kept going, and it kept going, kept going.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: So if I answer your question, yeah, you did it.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: So you you were you were doing this consulting work
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: and the software work, and you started to shoot images
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: on the weekend. It sounds like, so yeah, so those
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: that are listening that want to make this transition into photography.
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: Obviously a decade later, almost two decades later, from your example,
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: it's a lot more difficult to be a professional photographer,
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: really difficult.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So at the time, though, what are the takeaways
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: that you still think are relevant to today to helping
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: people make that transition from paycheck to paycheck to being
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: an entrepreneur working on their own, maybe even traveling from
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: the road. What were some of the things that you
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: really learned as key steps that allowed you to do that.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: You know, you're still running a business no matter what
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: you do, even if you're just working for yourself, you
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: are your business, and you have to think about everything
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: that you do and all the activities you engage in
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: as being a business, and you have to be professional
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: about it. So you have to be a marketer, you
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: have to be good at sales. Yeah, you have to
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: do your bookkeeping and your accounting work fortunately, and you
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: have to be able to provide that service or that
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: exceeds expectations. You have to do all these things. Well,
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: if if we go way back into the nineties, when
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: I got out of school, I had an accounting degree,
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: so I have this kind of analytical side of my
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: brain which helps, and so everything I do in business
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: is always driven around does it affect The bottom line
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: is that activity that I'm doing is it worthwhile?
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: Should I be doing that? And at some point, you know,
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: when you work for yourself, you never shut it off.
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: You never shut it off. So this whole idea of
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: balance is really this this goal you're always reaching for it. Oh,
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: I want more time off. What do you want time
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: off from from your from your job? Well, guess what
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: you signed up for that. You know. I do miss
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: having a paycheck. I loved that. That was great because
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: it was in some ways a sense of security, But
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: it's a sense of false security, especially like right now
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: we're sitting here in August to twenty twenty and we're
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: still We're five months into a pandemic and so many
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: people have lost their jobs. I have no bookings for
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: the safari world right now, and it just kind of
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: exposes that we're all at risk. We're all at risk
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: of some sort of interruption in our work lives. So
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: who's better off? I don't know. I really don't know.
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: But my recommendation for people who want to work for themselves,
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: try to have Like I say, I'm a photographer, but
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: the reality is I'm more compensated for guiding safaris and
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: setting up custom safaris for people. My photography is that
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: entree into that world, like, come share it with me,
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: let me share it with you, and I'm going to
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: share my knowledge with you that I've accumulated over twenty
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: years in the safari world. But the photography is really
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: kind of a small, small component of income for me.
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: Although the people that I've talked to that of work
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: with you in that regard, there was a there's been
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: a couple of things that they've highlighted that they see
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: as your strengths, and one of those is that you're
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: so personable, and you're so easy to spend time within
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: the field, and that you're a good teacher. So when
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: people are they're spending thirty thousand dollars to go on
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: a safari and they just they just not always that yeah, sure,
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: and they've spent nearly that much on camera gear, right,
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: and they want to capture those images in the field.
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: I think that you know, we talked about this earlier,
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: but when I look at at how you've kind of
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: architected your life, I think you did a couple of
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: things that were I believe important and it reflects also
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: what I experienced in my own transition from professional.
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: Career into my own businesses.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: You were fairly well diversified, So you had photography work
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: that you were doing, and you had some incredible images
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: that were featured throughout all of the Banana Republic stores
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: and I remember seeing them in the stores. Those those
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: images were stunning, and we'll put those in a couple
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: examples of that in the show notes. But beautiful images.
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: So you were drawing an income from those kinds of opportunities.
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: That was also fueling interest in people learning photography from you,
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: which was also fueling the opportunity to lead the safaris,
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: which was also fueling the opportunity to design camera bags
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: for Gura Gear. And do you think that that kind
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: of model still has merit or are things so now
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: so vertical and specialized that that diversification is less possible.
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: Oh that's a really good question. I would say that
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: no matter what business you do, you have to choose.
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: Are am I going to be a specialist and something
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: and own it and get it or am I going
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: to am I just going to become a generalist and
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: really good a lot of different things. Well, for me
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: in my business, I have to have many different incomes
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: to dreams to try to insulate myself from you know,
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: typical business cycles, finicky customers. Sure you know. So, Like,
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: let's say, so, I offer some safaris on my website
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: that are what I call open enrollment safaris. Here, I've
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: put these together. Come join me. We start on this day,
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: we end on that day. And then I set up
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: custom bespoke safaris for people. So let's say they don't
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: want to travel in a group, small group, they want
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: to go on their own. I sell prints, I license
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: photographs for other safari companies that are trying to market
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: their own services. Banana Republic has been a customer of
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: mine in the past. That was a really that was
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: a great that was a great project we did together.
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: But that's been twelve years. Yeah, it's been twelve years.
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: I can't believe it. So the point is that I
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: just have to rely on a lot of different things
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: to get me through right now. For example, travel is
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: dead for the moment, so I'm just concentrating on building
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: a new website. I'm doing some fundraising events selling my
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: images for the benefit of some of the conservation organizations
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: in Africa. I'm staying busy. Maybe they're not doing the
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: best with from an income standpoint, but it's keeping me relevant, visible,
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: maybe recharging yourself a little bit. Yeah, it's actually been
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: nice to be home for a little while. It's very
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: unusual for me normally in a given year, I'm gone
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: on safari fifteen eighteen twenty twenty two weeks out of
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: the year. That's a lot of time in an airplane,
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: a lot of jet lag. But once I get there,
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: it's like, oh that battery levels in one hundred.
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: There's something about landing in Africa that is just so exhilarating.
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: No vest, Yeah, no question. And I think I'm in
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: the same boat too. I mean, I have traveled less
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: this year than in recent memory, probably over a decade,
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: So it's definitely been It's been very very busy for
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: me in other ways too, So it just feels like
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: I was listening Ryan Holidays, really thoughtful author, and he
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: was talking about the pandemic and he was mentioning, is
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: this going to be a live time for you or
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: dead time? And I think a lot of people they
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: have decided that they're going to just plug into Netflix
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: and kind of disconnect for a little bit. And there's
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: nothing wrong with making that decision, but you're not building
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: for when things start to open back up again. And
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: it's for me, it's like, for example, just being able
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: to fully organize this shop and go through all of
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: my gear, and I really like, I've had this for
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: ten years or the batteries are dead in this thing,
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: and it's been it's been very productive. Have you found
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: that kind of that same kind of opportunity. It's been
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: the best five months so far. Not it's not what
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: I would have chosen, right, But every day that I
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: wake up, I try to think of is there something
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: I can learn today? Is there an experience that I
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: miss or haven't done that I want to do? So
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: sometimes that's trying a new grilling or barbecue recipe or
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: new wine, or maybe it's going and going to the
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: gun range and shooting something I haven't shot before, or
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: just hanging out with a friend.
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: Sure socially distanced, of course, but the point is is
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: that I'm now doing the things that I haven't had
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: time to do in a while. It will it's getting
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: long in the tooth now. I'm ready to get going again.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: And so that's actually why I'm here in Arizona, two
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: states away.
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Yeah, starting to get starting to get moving again,
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: which feels good.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. And we just and we just finished
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: a long three and a half week road trip overland
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: trip all throughout Colorado, Moab, the Tetons, the Black Hills,
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: just did a big loop. And you did that with
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: your family.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: Have two kids, right, I've got two boys, twelve and fourteen,
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: and we just we flew into Denver, rented a Jeep,
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: four door Jeep and took off. And when now that
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: you've done that multi week trip with you know, nearly
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: grown kids, what were your takeaway from that? What did
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: you learn about traveling with kids that you think might
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: help somebody else for the same situation. Yeah, Well, they're
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: very active, so they love to wrestle in the back seat.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: And a car that's not that large. It's not like
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: we rented a suburban or something or a big sprinter van.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: I didn't want that. I wanted to be more nimble,
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: be able to go wherever I wanted, however I wanted.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: What I learned is that my kids quickly adapted to
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: a life without electronics and that was really nice.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: So did you put some boundaries in place on how
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: often they could work it?
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: Would play their.
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: Games or just none at all, none at all, Like
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: you can't bring it. That's awesome. Sorry, Now did you
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: do something similar? Did you kind of disconnect a little bit?
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: I did during the day, but when we got back
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: to the cabin at night, I would have to do
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: some Yeah, get caught up on it work. I mean,
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: I'm I'm in the service industry and I can't go
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: off the grid for too long.
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that makes sense. Yeah.
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: And when it comes to safaris, those that are listening,
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: I know in the questions that we've hold our readers
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: and our listeners on, one of the more commonplaces that
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: people want to travel is Africa, And from my perspective,
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of great reasons to do that. To me,
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: it's one of the places on the planet I feel
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: most at home. But if someone is looking to go
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: to Africa, not just from an overland perspective, but to
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: actually have that full Africa experience with wildlife and nature,
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: what are some advice that What's some advice that you
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: would give them around that, like self drive versus versus
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: having a guide? Where what countries should they go to?
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about that.
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: Well, just like any kind of travel. You know, first
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: understand what your needs are, your requirements are, Like what
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: do I want? Do I want a four seasons experience
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: out on the bush? Do you want to be sleeping
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: in a dome tent that you pitched yourself? You know,
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: what is it that you're after? What? What does that
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: experience feel like? And I would say use adjectives to
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: describe to me. If I'm going to plan your safari
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: for you, tell me using simple words, what is it? Yeah?
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: What is it that you want? And then also you
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: have to develop a budget. You know, what is it
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: that you're willing to spend for it? Because I'm going
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: to warn people in advance that once you go to
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: Africa once it's not your last time. It's not so
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: my customers tell me that once they've traveled Africa, they've
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: already done the Western Europe, and they've done Asia, and
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: they've done South America, and they've done other travels, but
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: once they get to Africa, it's in its own bucket. Yeah,
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: there's Africa and everything else, because Africa basically just opens
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: up a new door more opportunities. You know, they're fifty
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: five countries in Africa. Fifty five countries that's quite a bit.
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: Huge continent. Yeah, huge continent in the safari world. My world.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: That's only about ten of them, okay, And there's so
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: much to see just in those ten that I work in,
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: and maybe a Botswana, South Africa, Zambia, Zimbabwe, Tanzania, Kenya,
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: gone to Rwanda, Ethiopia. There's a lot going on. It's
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: a lot going on. So understand what your requirements are,
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: what do you want, and maybe maybe start accumulating photographs
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: of camps of safari experiences because there's a big difference
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: between every style of safari. If you just said, well,
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: here's my budget, you know, pick a number, it's probably
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: gonna not deliver as much as you think it will.
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: It's going to cost you more. So Let's say you
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: choose an overland safari where you do self drive and
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: you drive into Kruger National Park and South Africa. That experience,
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: you're going to have to rent a capable vehicle. You're
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: going to be self catering, which means you're cooking your
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: own meals. You're gonna have to plan for that, so
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: that actually takes more day out of your more more
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: days out of your time allotted. Let's say you want
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: to go for two weeks, you need a few days
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: just to prepare to go grocery shopping, get all ready.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: And that's you know, every day that you're renting a
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: vehicle one hundred and fifty dollars a day for a nice,
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: nicely kidded vehicle with with top ten. And I'm sure
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: you know it starts to add up. It really does.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: And I remember, having done both guided and self drive
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: safaris in Africa. One of the things, with the exception
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: of the Okavanga Delta, which is literally the Garden of Eden,
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: in my.
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: Mind, it's the connoisseur safari. It really is.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: I mean, I couldn't drive twenty feet without seeing game.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: But everywhere else that I've done self drive, if you
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: don't have either a very experienced local or a lot
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: of luck, you don't see that much wildlife. Whereas when
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: I've been on any kind of a guided safari, I
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: mean everything from wild dog to lion, I mean just
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: the most the most incredible experiences. Because these guides they
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: know where the animals are, They're intimately familiar with the environment.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: They communicate well with the other guides in the area
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: so that they can give each other tips on where
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: things can be found, and it's definitely been a lot
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: more rich. And one of the things that I really
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: liked about it was it removed that element of needing
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: to drive and navigate and worry about the vehicle and
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: I could really just kind of soak up and experience
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: that moment in nature with those incredible animals. And I
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: think that that for myself, that was definitely a lesson
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: that it doesn't always have to be self drive.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, as a guide, I will tell you
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: that finding something worth watching or taking photographs of that's
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: probably ten or twenty percent of the work. The rest
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: of the work is basically being a host for the country,
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: for the camp, for the area. We're interpreters of nature.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: We explain everything, and we tried to do it in
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: a way that makes sense you can actually digest it.
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: So we throw out these golden nuggets all day long. Yeah,
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: and it's up to you to pick them up, you
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: know it. Sometimes it just goes up for people's heads.
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: They're like, yeah, I'm not interested in that animal or
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: not that you know that little stat But sometimes people
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: just take it in like a sponge. Yeah, it's great,
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: you know, we have to. We have to entertain people
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: through stories, through knowledge, through teaching throughout the day as
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: we're driving around, and then when we find our subject,
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: then we have to explain a lot about it. For example,
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: you know, what is it? Maybe, what's the scientific name?
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: Why is that scientific name interesting? Why is it relevant?
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: Like the African planes elephant is the losodonta Afrikana loksos is.
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: The word is a Greek word for pointed, donta is too,
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: so it's a pointed tooth. Their mouth basically comes to
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: a point in their mouth and their teeth. And then
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: we explain what the subject is doing, why it's doing that,
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: and then maybe how to photograph it. So we basically
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: repeat this all throughout the day and people just pick
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: it up. And if you're on your own game drive,
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: you can find things, maybe not as much, but you're
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: also missing out on all of those other factoids. So
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: I would say, I'm going back to your original question,
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: is like, how do I advise somebody. I would say,
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: you know, you're figuring out your budget and you're figuring
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: out what do you want out of the experience, And
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: if I had a you know, X dollars to spend
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: I would spend it on trying to line up the
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: best guide I could. It doesn't matter about like the
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: thread count of your linens and your bed and all
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: the other things. Those kind of those become secondary because
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: you're always going to be well cared for. You can
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: be taken care of. All your expectations, you're going to
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: be exceeded. But that safari experience, you're spending so many
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: hours in the day in a vehicle or on foot
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: or both. You want somebody interpreting that for you, you know,
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: And I've heard that too.
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: A couple of people that I've talked to about their
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: African safari experience, the ones that lit up the most
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: were the ones that either or did the guides the
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: guiding on foot or on horseback. Now, ye hate that picture.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: What makes I mean to me, being on foot feels
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: like I moved down the food chain, which is probably
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: what makes it more exciting. But talk a little bit
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: about on foot and on horseback. So on foot, you know,
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: the goal always as a safari guide is to keep
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: people safe, right, and so in order to keep people safe,
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: you have to put in certain protocols to make sure
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: that they are safe. And therefore, you walk a certain way,
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: you have a weapon, you're quiet. But we're also intentionally,
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: intentionally most of the time not taking you on walks
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: in areas that are heavily populated with predators or dangerous animals,
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: not necessarily predator. So it's like Kate buffalo for example,
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: Kate buffalo, elephant, hippo, hippo out of the water, extremely dangerous,
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: But we we want that experience to be interpretive, interesting, thrilling,
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: So we're usually focusing on the smaller things, the scat
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: on the ground, what animal eats what, right, you know,
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: we get into discussions around the difference between grazers and
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: browsers ones mammals that eat grass versus leaves. Right, sure,
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: and so we start start peeling away and telling stories
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: about like specific trees and the ecosystems around those trees.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: And that's usually what you don't talk about when you're
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: driving in a vehicle because everybody's big cat focused. So
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: we try to do the other things while we're on foot.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: Very cool.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And then on a horseback, Oh boy, that that
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: actually is the what I consider to be more dangerous
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: because now you're it's a horse, which is dam well,
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: you're riding. You're riding an animal, right, that might respond
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: differently than your expectations given us situation.
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: Sure, I've been bucked off plenty of horses.
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, not my favorite style, because a lot of people
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: arrive with their own differing experiences with horses. Oh sure.
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: You know the difference between someone who knows how to
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: ride English and the person knows how to ride Western. Well,
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: that's that's a pretty big gap right there. Yeah, right,
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: especially if you show up and it's the wrong saddle.
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that can happen. Yeah. Yeah, so I'm usually
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: not doing that. I'm not a horseman by practice, so
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: it's not my comfort zone. Yeah sure.
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It's just so interesting how many different ways that
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: you can experience Africa, and then even how dramatically the
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: conditions change, Like if you were to compare Zimbabwe with Namibia,
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: I mean it seems like they're two different planets.
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like, you know, every country has a different
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: experience range given a time of the year. For example,
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: the farther the way you get from the equator, your
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: seasons are going to be pronounced. Right, So let's say
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: you make it all the way down to Namibi or
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: South Africa, Botswana. Well, a July winter is very different
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: than a November December summer. Yeah, very different, different the rainfall,
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: the vegetation, migratory patterns. Yeah. And if you read books,
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: will often tell you to avoid rainy seasons. Well, I
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: think that's bad advice because maybe the rainy season actually
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: accomplishes somebody's goal that they want. They want a lush,
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: green safari and a rainy season in Botswana. Remember it's
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: the Kalahari desert. Rainy season in Botswana is very different
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: than a rainy season in Seattle, Washington, right, And so
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: it's not that much rain. We get rain maybe four
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: days a month during the rainy season, maybe six days,
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: and that's usually an hour at a time. It's not
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: that rainy.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: And it seems like some of your most dramatic photographs
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: come from those desert environments.
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I love I'm a desert rat myself. I love
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: the desert, but I love that when the desert comes
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: alive during the rainy times of the year. So photographers
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: kind of going back into photography mode here. But photographers
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: want drama, and we get drama typically from shooting in
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: violent weather situations, the edge of light situations, like right
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: when a storm comes through, or after it's come through,
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: that's what we want. It's when you get the dramatic light. Yeah.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: The thing I think that was so striking about your
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: images is how you'd have an elephant moving through let's
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: call it the Calahari, and you know, the elephant is
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: sharp in focus, a lot of contrast black and white photograph,
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: and then there's this technique that you've used where the
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: background is almost absent and the animal just stands out
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: so starkly in the photograph. What were you typically shooting
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: those photographs with?
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: So all two answers. First of all, if you pay attention,
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: so photography by definition is photography writing with light, So
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: it's light writing. Photography is often like the success of
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: your photographs are usually through your composition, not through how
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: you process it or anything like that. It's how are
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: you assembling the subjects and the shapes into your scene. Well,
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: I would say that one of the best things to
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: do is to separate your shapes, Like, if you want
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: that elephant to show up, make sure that its background
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: and foreground are dissimilar to it in tone and in texture.
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: So look for backgrounds that are really far away so
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: if you use any lens, it doesn't even matter what
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: f stop you're using, it's going to be blurry. Yeah. Right,
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: So the closer vegetation or a background is to your subject,
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: the sharper is going to be no matter what your
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: f stop is. So I would say composition is like
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: the primary driver and all successful photographs, especially black and
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: white ones, because you don't have that color. The color
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: information is not there. Now you're relying all in shapes.
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and those and those images were just I can
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: see why an Anna Republic chose those.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: You know, it's it's thank you. It's interesting. When I
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: was in their ad agency's offices in New York and
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: we were going through my portfolio of photographs, I noticed
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: what they were looking at and moving towards. And they
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: were moving towards non aggressive photographs, non aggressive subjects. So
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: they were not choosing big cats typically. They were moving
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: towards peaceful, harmonious, uplifting, hopeful, heroic looking photographs. And here
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: I'm using some adjectives to describe them, but they were
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: moving towards zebra's, giraffes, elephants. Yeah, they were not moving
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: towards aggressive lines that were yawning or roaring. And it
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: was really helpful for me because it's helped me over
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: the last basically eighteen years since I started this business.
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: It's helped me arrive at a portfolio of photographs that
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: are always consistent because I use these adjectives, this timeless, remote, hopeful, uplifting,
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: heroic approach to photography. And how do I get that?
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: So often photographers are sometimes focusing on the wrong thing,
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: pardon the pun, They're focusing on the things like, you
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: know what subject am I photographing? Well, don't think about
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: the subject, think about the adjectives that you want the
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: subject to be portraying. And if it doesn't exhibit that,
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: don't take the photograph. Point they lend somewhere else. You know,
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: I'm looking for photographs and it doesn't matter if I'm
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: in Africa, Iceland, the Galapagos Islands, it just doesn't matter.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: Always looking for those same kind of curated adjectives all
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: the time. And I wrote about this in an article
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: and a couple of years ago in the Journal, and
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: it just it helps. It helps me take my photographs,
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: not process them. It helps me capture which ones that
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: I want, and I know when I take that image.
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, I know, I'm going to pay attention
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: to that one when I get back to get back home.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And for those that are listening, Andy has contributed
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: on several occasions to Overland Journal, and we'll put a
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: link to some of his articles that was that have
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: been featured in the magazine. We've always appreciated his approach
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: towards the telling of a story visually, and that's what
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: Overland Journal has always attempted to do, is tell that
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: visual story as you turn the pages.
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, photography is storytelling, right that. The challenge
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: is that, you know, photography is a visual activity, and
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: so if you're telling story with photographs, you have to
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: almost assume that there's no dialogue. There's no written dialogue,
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: there's no spoken dialogue to describe what's going on. So
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: everything that you are trying to say in a photograph,
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: you have to communicate it in that photograph. It has
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: to be somewhat apparent. Years ago, a National Geographic photographer
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: that I was, I did some assistant worked for twenty
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: years ago on weekends. He taught me a very very
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: important lesson. He said, Andy, when you go out and
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: take photographs. You have to think in your mind, am
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: I out to capture one photograph to tell a story?
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: Or do I need multiple images to tell a story?
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: You know, the average coffee table book contains around one
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: hundred and thirty photographs, and so somebody like Franz Launting,
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: who's one of my friends and heroes, he uses every
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: page to tell a story. He needs the entire book.
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: And then the guy I used to work for, his
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: name was Galen Rowe. He was after the single photograph
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: and we were sitting there having having lunch barbecue and Bishop, California,
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: and they were telling me their approach. And that was
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: probably the best advice I've had coming my direction as
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: a creative person. What could I use? That was easy
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: to understand. It was this idea of storytelling. Do I
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: want the one photograph above the mantle and the living room?
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: Do I need the book? Well, I'm the one photograph guy.
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: That's what I am, no question, Yeah and so and
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: so I know that. But as a result of being
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: taught that by them, that was really good advice.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: Well, and thanks for sharing that with us today. That's awesome.
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: And you know we do talk technically on this podcast too.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: And I know that beautiful images have been taken with
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: iPhones and incredible images have been taken with hostile blogs
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: and everything in between. Give some some insights, some basic
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: equipment advice if someone's going to go do their African
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: Safari of a lifetime, which, as you said, will end
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: up being, yeah, the first of man, not the old
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: first of many. But what are some it doesn't have
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: to be specific models, but what are some things that
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: people do need to plan for around their equipment for Africa?
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: Rent or buy. That's my first kind of decision matrix
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: right there, because right now you've got in North America,
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: you've got multiple rental outlets. You don't have to buy
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: anything if you don't want to own it and use
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: it after your safari. So I would say, figure out,
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: do I want to own something after my safari? Will
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: I use it?
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: And if the answer is I want to own it,
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: then start building a kit around lenses, not cameras. Lenses
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: are going to be with you for a long time.
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: Invest in really good lenses. Maybe not the long lens
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: for your safari because you might not use it, but
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: the other things, like you're twenty four to seventy kind
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: of focal lengths. You're seventy to two hundreds. The staple,
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: the workhorse lenses, my good quality glass, build your camera
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: around it, and then maybe augment that for your safari
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: with a rented long lens. So I would say that four.
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: Hundred millimeter F two point eight, that's the one you
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: rent right, exactly exactly.
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I always tell people, you know, for your biggest
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: lens on safari, bring the biggest lens that you can afford.
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: Bring the biggest lens you can carry and want to carry. Yeah,
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: you know, because some people say, you know, give me
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: the best. Well, you know, the best is going to
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: weigh fifteen pounds and it's going to cost fifteen grand.
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: Do you really want that? Are you really going to
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: use it after this safari? Can you pick it up?
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: I think every time that I photographed animals in Africa,
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: I've always realized that I didn't have enough focal length
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: and it wasn't fast enough, and that was you know,
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: the bodies are amazing and they shoot in low light
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: better now than they ever have, but I always need
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: you know, if if I had a two hundred milimeter,
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: it was way too short.
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: I really needed a four hundred millimeter. You know what, though,
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: always use whatever lens you have, use it for its benefits,
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: not for its weaknesses. Meaning, let's say I go on
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: so far, my longest lens is two hundred milimeters equivalent. Well,
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: you're not going to be very successful photographing little birds,
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: but you may be successful photographing herds of elephants walking
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: across a field where you've got your clouds are included,
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: your grass is included. You know you're you're telling this
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: story of this bigger place. We all know what a
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: giraft looks like. It's got four legs, it's got a
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: long neck in spots rh and back to scientific names,
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: it's the giraffa chemalo partless camelo partileus camelo. It's a
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: camel and it's pardalis, which is a leopard, so it's
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: a leopard spotted camel in Latin. So the point is
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: that we know what they look like. We don't need
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: to fill the frame with them because our brain fills
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: in all of that information that we know since we
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: were little, tiny kids, what these subjects are and books. Right,
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: So I'd say the biggest, the biggest room for improvement
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: for somebody on their first day out. Safari is to
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: actually zoom out because often people are cutting off tails
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: on the edge of the frame. They're cutting off the hoofs,
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: the bottoms of the legs. They're doing that. They're going
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: in so tight where they're actually forgetting the bigger Picture's
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: great advice. Yeah, So I don't own big cameras. By
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: the way, I sold my longest lens probably five years ago.
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: I had a Cannon two hundred and four hundred. Before that,
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: I had a Canon five hundred prime. I sold them.
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: I don't shoot that way anymore. It's not that it's bad,
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: it's just that I kind of honed in on the
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: storytelling that I wanted to tell. So I use high
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: megapixel Phase one cameras and Canon thirty five milimeter gear.
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: But my intended goal is a really really big print
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: on the wall, which means that my subject can be
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: pretty small in the frame. Right, A tom I printed big,
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: a subject is decent in size. Right, That's my way
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: of telling a story. I would have a very difficult
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: time showing my photographs in a book where they where
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: maybe an image is three by five inches. That makes
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: sense because you're you're taking advantage of all of that data.
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: I mean, you showed me that Phase one camera that
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: you're carrying today. That thing is awesome. I mean that
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: just the just the lens is like a work of
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: mechanical art. Yeah. Yeah, I mean that's a that's a
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: roadstock lens. And the Phase one back, I mean they're
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: made in Denmark and made in Denmark. They're amazing. Yeah.
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: I mean and the and the images.
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: I mean those that are listening, many of you will
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: know this, but buying one hundred thousand dollars camera doesn't
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: give you one hundred thousand dollars image. No, No, it
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: gives you the opportunity to take one hundred thousand dollars image.
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: But certainly, like you said, the composition, the light, the subject.
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: Are you telling a story?
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, My requirements are very different than most people's. You know,
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: remember we're back to multiple income streams. So a print
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: sale for me through an interior designer, for a client
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: that maybe let's say a law practice where they've got
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: three conference rooms, they've got four hallways, they've got a
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: reception area, and they need eighteen to twenty photographs and
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: each of them are at a minimum thirty by forty
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: inches and they want them all around. Well, that puts
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: me in a different need category than someone just looking
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: for one photograph that's ten by fifteen inches. Sure, it's different.
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: It's just a different set of requirements. With that being said,
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: I'm sponsored, so financially this is not been hurtful for me. Yeah, sure, Yeah.
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: That's amazing. Now let's get back to some overlandy stuff.
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: So you you did a big drive across Africa a
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: few years ago, right, you drove all the way up
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: to Kenya, right, you know, we did it from Johannesburg,
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: Pretoria all the way up through and that was that
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: was a lot of fun.
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: What were you driving. We were in a Defender one ten. Oh. Yeah,
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: you were telling me about his shoulders still hurts from
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: that drip. Oh god man. You know we were talking
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: earlier about how it's almost as if they positioned the
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: seat assuming that your windows open, Yeah, because your your shoulder,
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: your arm is going to be hitting against that. Yeah.
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: But that was a great trip. It was a great trip.
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: And that was your first long overland journey. Yeah, you
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: know it's it's probably my first and only long one
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: because most of mine tend to be shorter, a multiple
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: country approach. That's you know, heading up to Zambia, Zimbabwe,
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: Tenzani and Kenya. That's a nice journey, it's a nice,
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: amazing for most people. I would say that's a three
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: to four week trip for most people. Some people can
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: do it faster, some people do it a lot slower.
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: I would like to do one through a gola sometimes. Yeah,
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: that's my opening up. Now, that's my goal, especially southern goal.
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: We got to plan that. Yeah, let's do it. Let's
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: do it. Grab some decker g wagons and go do that.
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: Oh time.
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So that that leads to our next couple questions.
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: So you you have had some interesting vehicles and we've
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: actually traded them back and.
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: Forth a few times. So for those that are listening,
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: I U I.
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: I got a nineteen ninety five long wheelbase range Rover
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: Classic from Andy many years ago, and I did a
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: bunch of work to it, as one does with the
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: range over Classics.
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: That's a continuous thing.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: And I drove it back from his place in Houston,
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: had a wonderful drive through Texas and everything coming back.
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: And then I had the vehicle for maybe three or
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: four years something like that, and then one day you said, hey, Scott,
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: what are you doing with that range over class?
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: I want it back?
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: And then you got the car back and you did
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: a full restoration on.
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: That painful, painful, painful. Yeah. I did a full floorboard replacement,
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: rust mitigation, you name it. And the work that you
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: did on it, and the work that I did on
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: has positioned it really well to sell it auction for
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: its future owner.
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah. But all the work's been done, someone's going to
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: have a great, great, great vivehicle.
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: And you've got a seventy series land Cruiser that you
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: keep available to you and Kenya, And you've also now
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: owned a couple of G wagons. Talk about what your
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: experiences are with a G wagon versus the land Cruiser.
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: What's your what do you see as being the strengths
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: and weaknesses of each.
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: That's a really good question. Well, first of all, one
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: of them has this sense, this the pride of ownership
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: that it just G wagons are so well built. When
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: you close the door, it feels like perfect machinery being closed,
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: closing a bank vault. Yeah, Oh, it's just amazing, it's amazing. Yeah,
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: you don't get tons of articulation you know, that's not
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: the great rock crawler kind of a vehicle, but it's
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: a great go anywhere kind of a vehicle. It's really
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: well built, it's durable, it's not too big. It's pretty
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: heavy though, but it's not too big. And I just
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: I like and appreciate how well built they are. Since
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: nineteen seventy nine, until the latest version that came out,
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: which I think is really unattractive, it didn't change. The
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: outside body panels were the same. I just think it's
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: one of the most beautiful vehicles ever designed. With that
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: being said, I think the range Rover Classic was as well. Yes,
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: for sure. Yeah, but when it comes to Toyota the
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: seventy series, unfortunately we don't have them here in the States.
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: They are just workhorses. They're affordable to maintain, they work
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: really well. There's a lack of passion with them, but
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: you know that every time you turn that key, it's
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: going to turn on and it's going to go.
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: And when you're in the middle of the delta surrounded
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: by fredators, it's nice when that starter kicks off every time.
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's a workhorse that is timeless, but
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: at the same time it does lack that eagerness when
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: you put the key in your hand and you're walking
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: out to the car park to go drive your vehicle.
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: I don't have that with a Toyota or a Lexis product.
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: Sure with a G Wagon you're just like you just
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: ready to get in it. And like my last U Wagon,
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: which was a rust factory but it was my test.
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: Do I want to buy another one? Do I want
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: to try it out? And it's the only vehicle I've
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: ever bought and sold for more money right right. As
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: as the price of new g Wagons go up, it
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: just brings the floor of the news ones up.
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: They're a fairly good investment in general. Yeah, it's become
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: part of pop culture now unfortunately. Yeah, but it's such
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: a capable vehicle. Yeah, they're really there, really are special
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: for sure. And what's next for you? I mean you're
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: you're we're going to be hopefully coming out of this
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: travel restriction and countries are starting to open up. You
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: just mentioned that, Ken you was just opening up. What
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: do you Where do you want to go next? What's
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: your next big adventure for you?
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: Oh? Man, I don't really know, but I think Namibia
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: is in my future. Another Namibia trip, a northern Kenya
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: trip way up to the border of Ethiopia, like Lake
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: Turkana area, Takana. Yeah, I want to make it up there.
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: Pretty wild up there. That's on my list. Southern Angola
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: is on my list. Yeah, photographing some of the cultures
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: there and that. But that's a long term. There are
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: kind of long term things in the next six to
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: twelve months. It's returning back to Safari planning. Maybe some
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: more North American travel, you know, because that's available to
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: us right now, and so I foresee some some some
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: backcountry travel, probably Utah, maybe parts of Nevada, Colorado again
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: this this fall.
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: I'd love to see your big print impressions of southern Utah.
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: That would be incredible, you know. I mean, I've run
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: so many photographic workshops in Utah and I love it there.
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: But my best most the time, that like they go
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: deep into my heart, are usually when I'm by myself
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: or with a friend and you see something and because
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: no one's there with you, you appreciate it more. Yeah, right,
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: and uh so we'll see, we'll see where I'll go.
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: But that's exciting though. Yeah, what about you turning it around?
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: I mean for me, it's it's definitely getting back to
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: Africa and I and do it on a motorcycle. So
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: right now I'm clearing out the things of my life
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: that I can to make it easier for me to
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: travel and also work. So it's the next step we'll
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: be deciding what motorcycle to buy and then getting it
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: ready to cross Africa. So that's going to be hopefully
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: I'll have that done by the time all this stuff lifts.
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: There's no reason not to take advantage of this downtime
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: to prep a motorcycle to ship.
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: But do you want to do one long trip or
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: do you want to do it in segments? It'll need
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: to be in segments. I find that.
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: About six weeks at a time works really well for me,
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: where I can still stay engaged in the business and
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: support my staff is necessary and support the business is necessary.
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: And then so I'll probably travel for about six weeks
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: and then come back for a couple months, and then
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: go and travel for another six weeks. So I think
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: it would be three six week segments across Africa. Yeah,
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: that sounds like a lot of fun. Yeah, I'm really
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: excited about it. I've been wanting to do it for years,
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: and I've been putting it off, and I don't even
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: know why. There's no reason that comes to mind other
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: than I think I've also enjoyed doing some different things
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: for a little while. But now I'm really excited about
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: getting back on a motorcycle and heading out into the
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: to the big unknown. Do you want this to be
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: a solo trip though? If it needs to be, it
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: will be. There's a couple a couple friends that I've
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: invited to come along, and they've all expressed interest, and
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: I think the best way for me to position it
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: with them is this is when I'm leaving. I would
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: love for you to come. I'm leaving on this date.
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: If you can be there, that's great. That way, they
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: don't feel any obligation to go. They can choose, even
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: at the last minute, even that the motorcycle could be
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: in the airport in Johannesburg and they decide not to go.
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: I just don't want to put anybody under that pressure.
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: Because Africa is it's a big endeavor. It's also there's
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: a lot of risk involved. There's a lot of constantly
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: shifting political dynamics and even environmental dynamics than the continent.
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: So these are open invitations to a couple folks and
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: hopefully they come, and if not, it's also totally okay,
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: I'll just do it on my own.
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean there's some places that I think that
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: mode of travel might be more challenging than others. Yeah,
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: you know, for given times of the year, like a
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: rainy time that for a kind that has a lot
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: of mud, Yeah, I could be a little uncomfortable.
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: It'll be really difficult on a bike, and it does
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: need to be timed around that. The motorcycles, especially the
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: bigger bikes, when it gets you get into that real
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: thick clay mud, very very difficult to ride a big
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: bike in those conditions. I experience some of that in
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: the equatorial regions of South America. But every time that
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: I travel on a motorcycle by myself, it is very transformative.
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: I don't typically travel alone, so when I do, you
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: spend a lot of time thinking about life. And I
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: think that's really that's really positive laughing because so many
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: books have been written by people, yeah that have ridden
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: solo on a motorcycle. I think it's really healthy to
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: do that. I don't think it's healthy to do it
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: all the time, I think, at least for myself, I
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: enjoy experiencing the world and adventure with others. But I
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: also have found that anytime that I've traveled alone, especially
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: for long stretches of time, like riding back from Lima,
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: Peru all the way back to Columbia by myself, I
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: learned a lot about myself and I learned a lot
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: about how I wanted my life to be. So I
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: think that those solo times are also really transformative. That
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: quiet time in a helmet just thinking about life is good. Well,
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: if you want someone with four wheels, let me know, Well,
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: there's no reason we shouldn't connect along the way. That
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: would that would make That would certainly make a lot
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: of sense. That would be awesome. Well, Andy, thank you
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: so much for your time today. I really appreciate all
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: of your insights. I've enjoyed our friendship through the years.
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: How do people find out more about you? What's your website?
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: What's your Instagram? How do people follow you?
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: I'm pretty easy to find just my name Andy A
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: and d y b i Ggs Biggs Andy Biggs dot
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: com and I've got an Instagram account it's Andy Big
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: Safaris with underscores in between each where Andy underscore, bigs underscore.
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, get on there and check out his images. They're
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: absolutely stunning And if you're thinking about making a trip
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: to Africa, sounds like Andy would be a good one
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: to reach out to at least get some advice from.
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: And thank you as always for listening and we will
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: talk to you all next time.