Latest / Bulletproof Screenwriting™ Podcast / BPS 348: First-Time Filmmaking, Oscars & Netflix With Scott Copper

Transcript

BPS 348: First-Time Filmmaking, Oscars & Netflix With Scott Copper · Bulletproof Screenwriting™ Podcast

0:03
You are listening to the IFH podcast Network. For more amazing filmmaking and screenwriting
0:08
podcasts, just go to ifahpodcastnetwork dot com. Welcome to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast,
0:14
Episode number three forty eight. Cinema should make you forget You're sitting in
0:19
a theater Roman Polanski broadcasting from a dark, windowless room in Hollywood when we
0:25
really should be working on that next draft. It's the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast,
0:30
showing you the craft and business of screenwriting while teaching you how to make your
0:34
screenplay bulletproof. And here's your host, Alex Ferrari. Welcome, Welcome to
0:40
another episode of the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast. I am your humble host Alex Ferrari.
0:45
Now. Today's show is sponsored by Bulletproof script Coverage. Now. Unlike
0:50
other script coverage services, Bulletproof Script Coverage actually focuses on the kind of project
0:57
you are and the goals of the project you are. Actually break it down
1:00
by three categories micro budget, indie film, market and studio film. There's
1:04
no reason to get coverage from a reader that's used to reading temp pole movies
1:08
when your movie is gonna be done for one hundred thousand dollars, and we
1:11
wanted to focus on that At Bulletproof Script Coverage, our readers have worked with
1:15
Marvel Studios, CIA, WME, NBC, HBO, Disney, Scott Free,
1:22
Warner Brothers, The Blacklist, and many many more. So if you
1:25
need your screenplay or TV script covered by professional readers, head on over to
1:30
covermiscreenplay dot Com. Well, guys, today on the show, we have
1:38
an amazing filmmaker by the name of Scott Cooper. You may know his work
1:42
from the Academy Award nominated film Crazyheart, which was his first script and his
1:49
first directorial debut, and from there he's done films like Out of the Furnace,
1:55
Black Mass with Johnny Depp, Hostiles with Christian Bale, Antlers, and
2:00
the new film The Pale Blue Eye with Christian Bale and a cast that is
2:06
remarkable on Netflix. Scott and I had a fantastic conversation about how he got
2:12
started, how he made the transition from actor to director, following your dreams,
2:19
how to direct legendary actors. I mean, the casts in his films
2:23
are just I can't even explain it. You have to see it when you
2:27
watch these films. But we had a great conversation. I can't wait for
2:30
you guys to hear it. So without any further ado, please enjoy my
2:32
conversation with Scott Cooper. I like to welcome to the show, Scott Cooper.
2:38
Man. How you doing, Scott great? Thank you, Alex,
2:40
thanks for coming on the show. Man. I'm a fan, man,
2:44
I've been a fan for a while. Man, you're doing some really good
2:46
work. Brother. Seriously, Man, thank you, Thanks Upper and Tougher.
2:51
It's man, I can I was just talking. I was just talking
2:55
to somebody a few minutes ago about how the movie business is changing so dramatically,
3:00
even from when you made Crazy Heart to now getting somebody to the movie
3:06
theater. If Avatar is having a problem, I mean, you know,
3:14
I suspect people go out for that film. I did know. I saw.
3:17
It's one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen in my life.
3:21
Like what what Jim did was, yeah, no problem, It's remarkable.
3:24
But and it's doing well. But people are like, oh, it should
3:28
be doing better. And there's a lot of pressure on a movie like that.
3:30
But other than an Avatar and Top Gun last year, it's tough to
3:35
get people out to the theaters. Man, yeah. Well, in fact,
3:39
maybe that was happening also a little bit before COVID, certainly accelerated during
3:45
COVID. Look, it's expensive to get a center and dinner and parking,
3:50
and then the price of a movie. Maybe for the kind of movies that
3:54
I make and some of my favorite filmmakers, perhaps the ticket prices should be
3:59
lowered and then right will be more likely to come out, because there really
4:04
is nothing like experiencing and in fact, the film will not have the same
4:12
effect on you regardless support it is if you're watching it anywhere but in the
4:16
center. But there's no there's no question, my friend. But but you've
4:20
lived a very interesting life in the film industry. You've you've you came up
4:25
as an actor. So my first question, how did you and why did
4:29
you want to get into this insanity that is the film industry. Well,
4:31
look, it's uh, you don't choose your obsessions. Your obsessions choose you,
4:39
right, very much. So I also spent, uh, I was
4:42
born and spent with a lot of my formive years in this kind of artistic
4:45
crown jewel of Virginia called Avenue, Virginia, where the state theater is also
4:49
a lot of great uh music comes out of that that region, the Mountain
4:54
Empire, as well as a lot of arts and crafts. So the arts
4:57
were always a part of my life. My father would take me to see
5:01
films at a young age at a local college, and then you know,
5:05
when you're young and you're transfixed by that, and you also have spent time
5:10
as an actor. At Christian Bale and I had discussed this that that that
5:15
people who get into the film business aren't meant to have office jobs, and
5:19
I think I realized that at a young age. I also realized at a
5:25
young age that there were actors who were a whole lot better at this vocation
5:30
than I, Especially when you're on the other side of the camera and your
5:34
first film is you know, you're you're recording Jeff Bridges for Posterity and Roberto
5:41
fall And and Maggie Jill at Hank Colin Ferrell. That quickly makes you realize
5:48
that there are people who do it a whole lot better than you. And
5:51
then my second film was Christian Bale and Casey Affleck and Woody Willem Dafoe and
5:58
Sam Shephard and Forrest Whitiker and Zoey Saldana and then I'm like, Okay,
6:01
I'm definitely not going to be an actor again. So but quite honestly,
6:08
Alex, this is I mean, I couldn't imagine a better job than being
6:12
a film writer film director. I mean, I suppose being Mick Jagger or
6:18
Bono Eddie Vedder, you know, someone who's a rock star right and sings
6:24
to eighty one hundred thousand people on certain events. But I love being able
6:30
to express myself as a filmmaker. I love the people that I've met over
6:33
the course of my career. I mean, look, I've been for an
6:39
actor with an unremarkable career, I have been incredibly fortunate as a filmmaker.
6:45
I'll just say that. You know, it's it's interesting because a lot of
6:46
people like you know, everyone could play basketball, you know, generally everyone
6:50
could pick a ball and try to make a shot. But we're not all
6:54
Michael Jordan or Lebron James and well, and that's I think that's where you
6:57
were at. Well sure, I mean, even Robert Duvall, who was
7:01
my mentor and and expressed to me and still does how much he liked me
7:06
as an actor. Jeff Bridge is the same thing but but I just have
7:10
much more fun doing this. And and I never even really had a chance
7:15
to grow as an actor. I wasn't getting the kind of challenging parts that
7:18
that I now write for actors, and I adoor actors and performance is critical
7:25
to me, and and and and and working with actors that I've always uh
7:30
uh admired uh and and you know, also being able to work with actors
7:38
that teach me something, as Jeff certainly has, or Robert duball or or
7:43
Christian or even Johnny Depp. So I'm blessed man. That's that's just the
7:50
truth. So at what point, because I'm assuming as you were going down
7:54
the path as an actor, there might have been some rejection, not much,
7:57
I'm sure, but some rejection. You know, the actor who isn't
8:01
who isn't rejected a lot. Right. So I love Baneler and he started
8:05
twelve, I mean so yeah, he had but he had a good start.
8:09
That's a little Spueberg a independent film thing he did. Yeah. But
8:13
so when you're going so, when you're going through the acting process, at
8:18
what point did you say, you know what, I'm not going to hit
8:22
the All Star team as an actor. I want to jump to the other
8:24
side of the ft, like, what was the point when you decided I'm
8:26
gonna write. I was just auditioning a lot and you know, kind of
8:31
coming a bridesmaid coming in second and uh and and we're and and not getting
8:39
the parts that made me want to become an actor in the first place.
8:41
I think everybody who's you know, a young actor coming up in the nineties
8:46
one you know a career at least I did, like Sean penn or de
8:48
Niro, right or pack Himan a Paccino. So when you're not getting those
8:52
parts and you're going up for leading men and you're not really loving but you
8:58
have to support yourself, it just ultimately the rejection. It's a lot.
9:05
And I mean, look, we all get rejected, certainly in the art
9:07
when you make things that take big risks, for sure. But it was
9:13
really just the continual process of auditioning and films that I would have liked to
9:18
have been in not getting parts in them, whether it would be then Redline
9:26
or Saving Private Ryan. And then I was doing a Western with Duval being
9:31
directed by the great Walter Hill, who was also an mentor of mine,
9:35
and Duvall said you know, you should really write something, And of course
9:43
I ended up. At the time, I had spending a lot of time
9:46
considering writing the film about Merle Haggard. He had too many ex wives.
9:50
Getting the rights were difficult, so I ended up writing We'll be right back
9:56
after a word from our sponsor, and now back to the show, Crazy
10:03
Hart and Duvall was the first person to read it. And and you know,
10:09
Alex, the truth is when Jeff Bridges says yes to your film,
10:13
it changes your life. And that's exactly what happened to me. So is
10:16
that how you got the Because I was going to ask, like, you're
10:18
basically a first time filmmaker at this point. Yeah, you've been on set
10:20
for a long time, but you're about first time writer. That's all right.
10:28
I've never directed a film, I've never directed a commercial, I've never
10:31
directed a high school play. But I know this world and I know that
10:35
by surrounding myself with great collaborators, production designers, costumers, hammermen, women,
10:43
that sort of thing, that I knew that I could tell this story.
10:46
And Jeff, I remember it is though it were yesterday, And Jeff
10:48
says, so this is your first time? Yeah, I said it is,
10:52
he said, I've had a lot of success with first time directors,
10:54
the Fabulous Baker Boys being one of them. Said I'm in And you know,
11:01
Alex at that point that my life is near the same. And so
11:05
I have to ask you. First day on set, you're sitting you're the
11:09
big man on your big man on campus, first day, how do you
11:13
deal with not only the pressure of the first day and making sure that you
11:16
make that first day, but you're looking through the lens and you see Jeff
11:20
Bridges there like, and you're directing a legend, multiple legends by the way,
11:28
in that film. Okay, how how do you deal with that as
11:31
a director? Well, you deal with it by forgetting to call cut.
11:35
In my ad Karen and Chow was looking at me as the scene had finished,
11:39
and I'm trans and this is the truth and I'm transfixed and and she
11:43
looked at me and she said, and I said cut. That was and
11:48
literally it was like, my god, I remember that night that Jeff Bridges
11:52
is taking Dialogue what I have written and taking it to places that I never
11:56
expected. And that's especially because I've written specifically for him. That's the sign
12:01
of a great actor. And now five films later, it's happened in every
12:09
film, thankfully. So the one thing that's so impressive about your work,
12:13
not only the writing and the directing, but the cast that you're able to
12:16
attract is honestly unheard of. I mean, your second film, that list
12:22
of actors, any one of them could have been the star, but a
12:26
lot of them took secondary roles because they wanted to work on the project.
12:31
How do you attract all of these? I mean, and it's film after
12:33
film after film after film. As I'm going through filmography, I'm just like,
12:37
how the hell is this guy grabbing? I know it's the material,
12:41
but like even good material doesn't attract a lot of times because of politics and
12:46
schedules and this or that that is the case. It's difficult too, because
12:50
all the actors that you're referring to, everybody else wants and right trying to
12:54
fit them into a schedule is one of the it's difficult things to do about
13:01
making a film. But I think look, certainly the success of Crazy Hart
13:09
has helped win. When your film, your first film is nominated for free
13:11
oscars and wins a couple that certainly changes the calculus for everybody. Else when
13:16
they see how wonderful Jeff is and Maggie and Colin and d Ball and on
13:22
and on and on right, So that probably doesn't happen if that film doesn't
13:26
have the success that it did. And then Out of the Furnace had kind
13:31
of like a murderer's row of actors that all of whom are you know,
13:35
considered to be favorites of mine. So I think once those two films were
13:43
made, I think actors felt like, you know what, he I can
13:46
feel safe with Scott, because that's the key is to really make an actor
13:52
feel very safe, safe to take big risks, knows that I'm going to
13:56
protect them, not only on the day when we're shooting, but all so
14:00
in the cutting room. I think the actors that we're talking about know that
14:05
I'm more interested in films that push me into an uncomfortable space. I've spoken
14:11
to all of them about the great danger is really doing safe work where all
14:16
of it the edges are sanded off, so that a lot of people will
14:20
like your film, the Academy or people who are voting bodies, right,
14:26
And I think they realize that those don't those concerns don't really concern me.
14:33
So it's all about telling a very honest story, a very authentic story,
14:37
and a story that's not afraid to not let the audience off the hook.
14:46
I think striving for consensus is not something that I tend to do. I
14:52
don't make films out of fear, and certain actors respond to that. And
14:56
so another thing about working with all of these amazing actors is I know that
15:01
all of them have very different processes. So as a director, I mean,
15:07
as a director, how do you handle it when you have, you
15:09
know, four or five different of these actors in a in a scene.
15:13
You can't just yell out direction. You've got to kind of go first.
15:16
I never do that. I owed a direction to actors that nobody hears but
15:20
the actor. I'll make sure that exactly Mixer has turned off all Mike,
15:24
so nobody even sat we'll hear the direction that I give Sam super Right or
15:28
Robert Duval Christian, whomever it is. I think, well, I don't
15:35
think. I know, you have to be very specific with actors. Don't
15:39
talk in the abstract. Uh, It's really about who is your character,
15:43
what does the character want in the scene, what's the subtext? And again
15:48
make them feel safe, safe and free to take big risks. And every
15:52
actor comes at a scene differently. A c Affleck and Willem Devote couldn't be
15:58
more dissimilar in terms of react styles, and you have to on the day
16:03
balance those styles to make sure that all ideas are welcome, but that we're
16:08
all trying to serve the theme of the film and what's the subtext of a
16:15
theme. And then when you cast people up with Willem to Foe who's made
16:17
out of probably one hundred films, or because she who's made fifty to Ball
16:21
has made a hundred, I mean it's like, and I've said this before,
16:23
it's almost as though you're like a jockey at the but I would imagine
16:27
when to be at the Kentucky Derby. You're on the best and it's a
16:30
little bit of guidance here, a little bit of guidance there, shown the
16:34
whip, you know, and then let them run the rest of the work.
16:40
I mean, that's the key, is like not getting in their way
16:41
and helping an asked, Ball would always say to me the key to being
16:45
a successful director of performances, which is what I hope I am is knowing
16:51
how to help an actor and he or she is in trouble. Now with
16:55
Crazy Heart, you, I mean again, you're you're very rare example of
17:00
your first film being nominated for three Oscars. It doesn't happen quite very often.
17:04
How did you man? I got to be here? Yeah, that
17:08
was my question? How did you handle there? Not only the pressure,
17:12
the accolades, the you're the greatest, the ego trips, being in the
17:18
center of that hurricane, and then after winning, you know, the film,
17:21
winning a few a couple of Oscars, and how the town treated you
17:25
because how it was a dangerous place. And and but you already had been
17:30
in town a bit as an actor, so you've seen a few things that
17:33
I'm oh, yeah, So how did you deal with it? Man?
17:37
Well, by making a film that was the complete polar opposite, which was
17:42
Out of the Furnace, which you know, I hope to make as an
17:47
giant prime film, right, that that would remind me of a smaller version
17:52
of The Deer Hunter. Right, And you feel like, okay, well,
17:56
you're definitely not going to sand off the edges. You're not going to
18:00
strive for consensus. You're going to make a film that is as hard hitting
18:04
as the people experience who actually live there. Right. And fortunately that's where
18:11
Christian and I met in Braddock, Pennsylvania Mayor John Fetterman, who's now the
18:18
Senator from Pennsylvania, right, And I know how tough it was to live
18:22
in a place like that probably still is in brad it. So if you're
18:25
being authentic to telling the story, that's really the key, and you don't
18:30
worry about what others will say, You don't worry about what Academy voters will
18:34
say, you don't worry about what critics say. Because if you look at
18:37
most of Stanley Kubrick's films, they were not well received when they first came
18:41
out, all of them, almost I think all of them Unionesty, were
18:45
not well received. And time is what settles the store, right. So
18:51
often you see movies that go on to win Oscars and receive acclaim and you
18:55
watch them two, three or four years later, if not sooner, you've
18:57
been and you realize that they don't really hold up. Right. So if
19:02
you're if you're playing, and these actors that I work with know that you're
19:03
playing for the long game. And really, what what means something to me
19:08
is that when when I hear from people who are also filmmakers who have responded
19:14
to me, whether it's Bogdanovitch with Crazy Heart, whether it was Michael Chimino
19:18
calling me, or or William Freakin after seeing Out of the Furnace. You
19:23
know, Michael Mann, who is has been very kind to me, Mike
19:29
Nichols, like all of these people that I admire who really reach out to
19:33
you after seeing your films and and and continued, you know, applaud you
19:37
to continue to push. How how do you as a I mean, as
19:41
a filmmaker. There's so many traps with that because you know, when you're
19:45
getting your you're basically the people you admire falling you, telling you that you're
19:49
great and to keep going. We'll be right back after a word from our
19:55
sponsor. And now back to the show. The ego has to fall into
20:03
how do you keep that in place, because that's a problem when you have
20:07
so much James the Arc, Yes, and you have to. Of course,
20:12
my wife would disagree with saying that I feel like I have no ego.
20:18
Wife do that, yes, But ultimately it's really about serving the story,
20:23
about telling the stories that that you want to tell. And you and
20:30
Alex, what you try to do is try to keep ego out of any
20:34
decisions that you make, which is often very difficult for artists to do,
20:42
whether you're a painter or whether you position, you know, whether you're a
20:45
filmmaker. Jeff Bridges said to me, I don't care what happens to a
20:51
movie when it comes out in terms of winning awards. That that the reward
20:55
is in the journey for him, and it's the experience and the more movies
20:59
that I make that's the truth. It's when you and a group of gifted
21:03
collaborators are are all striving for the same goal, and I think that's really
21:10
important. I think also I have tended to her to figure out how to
21:15
how to tell the truth about how tragic and unfair life is without losing hope.
21:22
You know, most narratives lie to the audience about how life works out
21:26
and shocking. Yes, and Hollywood does that. No, you're kidding me,
21:33
Yes, So that's their bread and butter, it is. Yeah.
21:37
So for me, really it's it's it's about, you know, working through
21:40
the difficulties in my life by dressing them through art. Fair enough, fair
21:45
enough. Now, the one thing that's not spoken of a lot about in
21:49
the filmmaking space, especially in the film schools and for young filmmakers coming up
21:55
is the politics of the set. As a first time director, you know,
21:59
you have collaborators who you might have chosen wrong, you know, incorrectly
22:03
that you didn't align with what you wanted, or try to enforce their vision
22:07
on top of the director. To have you dealt with any of that,
22:11
and if you have, how did you overcome it? No, frankly I
22:14
haven't because I didn't think so, having not gone to film school. Actually,
22:18
all six of my films have been incredibly harmonious. Now I work with
22:22
the same crew largely over and over because we have a shorthand, and you
22:26
know, my films are not inexpensive, and every moment counts in every minute
22:32
is you know, you can just hear the dollar signs. I think it
22:36
was Kubrick again who who said that. Actually prepping as much easier editing as
22:42
you're much more relaxed, But when you're shooting, it's like you're in this
22:45
cauldron of fire because you have to make so many decisions every day and you're
22:49
dealing with production designers, actors, cameramen and women, sound everything is coming
22:57
together at once. So the key is how do you hire people that see
23:03
the world as you do, who will make push you to become a better
23:06
filmmaker. Because I didn't go to film school, and all of my film
23:08
school is reading as much as I can about film directors watching their movies over
23:15
and over and over with the sound off. How do they move the camera
23:18
most importantly when they don't move it, how they use composition and missle scene
23:23
and lighting staging to help tell a story, And which is more and more
23:30
difficult because we're living in the most impatient of ages, because yes, right,
23:37
and because we're getting our instanment in social media, we're getting instant gratification
23:44
constantly, and that we were no longer patient. We have to really resist
23:48
that when you're making a film, because you want to put an audience today
23:52
in from of two thousand and one, Oh, I do what that was
23:56
Barry Lyndon the Odd Father even and they'd never heard of these actors or seen
24:02
that. People would find it it's painfully slow, boring, and if they
24:07
were watching home, they would turn it off. Not everybody, but a
24:08
lot of people. And you have to resist that. You have to say
24:12
Okay, well this is the story I'm telling. People might find it to
24:15
be a slow burn, but I've said this before. Making you know,
24:18
experiencing a film in a cinema is not like getting an enema. You don't
24:22
want to want it to get over as fast as possible. Luxuriate in Stanley
24:26
Kubrick's world, or in Jane Campion's world or countless other filmmakers that have inspired
24:33
me for years. Right, that's the key. So so it's really about
24:38
trying to essue any ego. Hire people that see the world as you do,
24:45
know their work incredibly well, take meetings with them, and then you'll
24:49
just learn to push one another. I mean, even when you work with
24:52
trusted collaborators, there will be moments on set where there is storm underin.
24:57
As the director and is the and as the producer, you have to be
25:02
able to solve those issues. You also have to be open and realize that
25:06
all ideas are welcome, and that is the key. You can't only just
25:10
say it's my way. You have to very strong vision, but it's clear
25:14
that there are people that you hire who will bring ideas to make you're not
25:18
only a better filmmaker, but makes the film better. Now, how do
25:22
you approach the writing process because your work is so character driven? How do
25:30
you just deal with the writing processes? Quite quite frankly, and I work
25:36
very long stretches from early in the morning through lunch, take a break,
25:41
and then get back at it, because I do kind of what Copola did,
25:45
which is like this vomit draft where you don't go back and edit.
25:48
You literally write the story from page one to page one to twenty however long
25:52
it is, without going back to edit and reading it, and it very
25:56
often will be terrible to see if this is a story that you would want
26:00
to race out to see on Friday night. That's my litmus test. And
26:04
before I became a writer, I would study Robert Town's work. I would
26:07
study Freakin's work. I would study the network, Pattishis whoever, and I
26:15
would try to understand these are all people who write characters. How is it
26:19
that they're telling the story largely through subtext, and they're telling it visually,
26:25
they're telling it with spare dialogue, all these sort of things that you just
26:29
keep writing. Writing is rewriting, and eventually you come to a place where
26:33
we feel like you can share a screenplay with Robert Duval, who was the
26:37
first one to read Crazy Heart. Or now the person who reads all my
26:41
scripts, whether he's in them or notaa's Christian Vale, right. Christiano's been
26:45
making films since he's twelve. He'll tell you if the story of the character
26:49
is working quickly. And it's great to have. And I'm very fortunate to
26:53
have those kind of trusted collaborators who read my things and help guide me,
27:00
because so often and even in the editorial process, you get very snowbarn snowblarn,
27:04
and you can't quite see think things are great. But then there are
27:07
other people who will come in and say this didn't quite land for me,
27:11
this isn't working, this is overstated, this is understated. So all of
27:15
those sort of things. I'm just getting a text from my pow Casey Affleck
27:19
right now speaking so Alex. That's really it, man, It's about how
27:27
do you use other people's ideas. Look at I mean, I can't say
27:33
enough to young filmmakers read great screenplays. See not only what are writers trying
27:41
to express, but what they aren't. So much is left to the unspoken,
27:47
and that will make a real connection with the audience and I tell people
27:51
all the time first time filmmakers tell the truth, write stories that are close
27:57
to you, that you know in person. Similize everything, because then if
28:00
you do it, your theme will become universal and it will speak to most
28:06
everybody because we're all suffering, right, and we all if you deign to
28:10
make the kind of films that I do, and you want to move people
28:12
or you want to challenge people, A great filmmaker who shall remain unnamed,
28:22
once said to me, and this guy's one of the greats. He says,
28:26
scot up, everybody likes your film, it's likely not very good,
28:33
very true. Now do you outline at all? If I'm adapting something,
28:38
if I'm writing an original funny because I use Kubrick again, because I've read
28:44
everything he's ever said, well, me too. My friend to me to
28:48
watch all of his interviews, and he would never direct an original screenplay.
28:52
It always has to be based on existing material, because he says, you
28:55
can sit down in one sitting and tell this is a story that I want
28:59
to tell, this is what I want to spend the next five years of
29:02
my life. Outlining can be really quite helpful if there's existing The pale blue
29:11
eye, very sprawling novel, more characters than I could that I could or
29:15
should explore in a two hour timeframe. Different if you're making a limited series
29:22
something that's longer and more sprawling, you should certainly outline. But our original
29:26
screenplay it helps. It helps to give you guideposts as you're writing, for
29:32
sure. But certainly if you're adapting something and it's really all about finding the
29:41
essence of the novel or nonfiction piece or magazine ricle, whatever it is,
29:47
your adapted podcast, we'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
29:56
and now back to the show, And then it helps to outline that.
30:00
For sure. There's also something very free about not knowing where a narrative is
30:06
going. You had a kernel of an idea, like out of the furnace,
30:10
and off I went and just wrote. And I was doing press for
30:12
Crazy Heart Albums in Pittsburgh, drove over to Braddock, Pennsylvania, wrote very
30:17
specifically for all of these locations, took images out of that king the narrative.
30:22
So I do both. I've just just adapted something that I hope to
30:32
make certainly my next number or the film after that. And I didn't outline
30:37
I'd read the novel four or five times. William Goldman had certainly once he
30:41
realized he was going to read something and read it two or three times.
30:45
Did I like it the second time as much as the first? What are
30:48
the themes? Who are the characters that I'm going to excize? Who the
30:52
characters I'm going to focus on? That's the piece that I just that I've
30:56
just adapted that. When you have someone who's given you a great piece of
31:04
source material, like, for instance, Lewis Bayard and The Pale Blue,
31:11
you can take that and if the author knows and understands that a film is
31:15
very different than a book, you could just use a seed and off you
31:18
go. So what really is is project continuing, whether I outline or not.
31:26
I don't do it always now as directors, there's always that day on
31:30
set where we feel like the entire world's come and crashing down around you.
31:33
The sun's yea every day there is that, But there's that one day that's
31:38
like, oh, I don't think we're going to make it. That day
31:41
that you like, holy cow, what was that day on any of your
31:44
projects? And how did you overcome it? Well? You never have enough
31:48
time ever, Honestly, even though you've got and I've got fifty five days
31:52
to shoot this Jesus, I had twenty four for Crazy Heart, and then
31:56
every day by the time you're finished. There are no easy days on a
32:04
film set. One of them, of course, is is if you have
32:07
to vacate a location because it's a restaurant that you've brought it out, or
32:14
someone's house in the ray to move back in, or it can be because
32:19
you have monsoonal rains coming. And that would have been in Hostiles where I
32:27
was shooting the sequence towards the end of the film where Rory Cochran's character before
32:32
he before he meets his maker, and it's pouring rain and it's I think
32:40
it's probably thirty eight degrees. It's going to be snowing later. Rory is
32:46
dressed only in a very thin shirt, but we hadn't quite gotten the scene,
32:51
but I could tell that he was he was very affected by the weather
32:54
and was starting to hypothermic. I'm not a doctor. I'm supposing I can
33:00
see how it was affecting him. And these monsoonal rains up in the continental
33:05
divide you just can't control. But it was giving me everything that I wanted
33:07
in the scene. So you're trying to balance somebody's health with also trying to
33:12
know that you have to vacate a location vacator location and trying to balance the
33:16
scene. But and I would go to Rory, I would say, listen,
33:20
I think we have this, but I'm also very concerned that you are
33:27
experiencing something now that you shouldn't be. No, Scott, I haven't quite
33:30
gotten it. This is what Rory would say, We're going to keep pushing.
33:34
And then you're sitting behind the monitor next to the lens and you're thinking,
33:37
Okay, man, I've got to stop him because he'll keep going till
33:40
until he falls down, because he's that kind of actor who's so great Rory
33:44
Cotton as I've worked with so scenes like that that really pressure you. Or
33:52
when the monsoon rains and rattlesnakes have come out of the ground they're everywhere,
33:57
but you're still shooting. You know, those sort of things you said about
34:00
really balancing, and you know, if you're eight ten thousand feet above sea
34:04
level and oxygen is very difficult for people. Always trying to balance those sort
34:08
of things, or shooting the Pale Blue Eye and it's eight below zero,
34:15
and those are long days and you want to make certain that the crew are
34:22
well taken care of. But if you're the writer, director, producer,
34:23
and you're on a location and you're focused on that and then but you're also
34:28
concerned about the crew's well being, you know, those are things that you
34:32
really have to juggle as a filmmaker that they certainly don't teach you in film
34:37
school. Having not gone to film st I don't know for sure, but
34:38
I suspect they don't. Elevation. I missed the Rattlesnake Bears suing class when
34:47
I went. At least it wasn't there. It wasn't in the curriculum when
34:51
I went, So right, maybe there should be a class on that.
34:55
I mean, if someone's listening at USC for hell at us to have that
35:01
exactly now. I've talked to so many writers that when they are when they're
35:09
writing, and it happens. It's happened to me, it happens to every
35:13
writer. I think is when you're writing, you you're almost channeling, You're
35:19
almost like it's something flowing through you to what point, to the point where
35:22
after you're done you look at it and you go holy crap who wrote this?
35:25
This is good almost every time, and quite frankly, it comes from
35:30
a very deep, subconscious place. I mean, you're very conscious as you're
35:32
writing it, but you're not questioning it. My wife asks me that all
35:36
the time when she when she reads something like Jesus, where did this come
35:38
from? And you can't quite really understand it. And quite frankly, the
35:43
more films you make and the more experience you can come now as a film
35:47
director, but as a film writer, the more difficult it gets about saying
35:52
less and not over imparting to the audience and trying to give them a numb
36:00
information to keep them satisfied, but not too much information. And that's where
36:07
you become more conscious about it. But generally, as you're writing, if
36:10
you're in that flow and that stream of consciousness and it's coming from the place,
36:14
don't question it and don't stop. So it seems like it's, you
36:17
know, we could call it the other side the ether. Wherever ideas come
36:21
from? I think Spielberg talked about it, and I think Prince and Michael
36:24
Jackson talked about it as well, like where ideas come from? And I
36:29
think Spielberg said in an interview where he's like, if an idea comes to
36:31
me, I know that if I don't act on it, in a week
36:37
or two, I'll hear that Marty got it or someone else got it,
36:40
because the idea needs to be birthed into the world, and they chose you
36:45
first, but if you don't move they'll move on to the next one.
36:47
Look, and those are our three geniuses that you just mentioned. So I
36:51
wouldn't question any of that, but I think he's probably right, and I
36:55
try not to. I try not to question anything honestly in terms of where
37:02
it comes from, because when you make the kind of films that that I
37:07
make, you you have to understand that no two people see the same film,
37:15
right, And which is why I think it's so frankly absurd to rank
37:21
art as we do in America. What's the best? You know? Who
37:25
do you who do you think is a better painter? Side Twomblei or Jackson
37:30
Pollock? You're going to have varying responses right from a number of people when
37:37
you present them with that, or who's better Miles or Coltraining, Right,
37:42
those were things and the fact that we that we rank art is something that
37:45
for whole nother discussion, Alex, But you can't really be concerned with any
37:49
of that when you are making a film or when you write who come from
37:55
don't know? How are people going to receive this? Oh god no,
38:00
I think that No, you have to just let it come out. And
38:04
that's where I think a lot of writers generic and were easily forgotten. One
38:09
thing I've noticed with your work is it seems that there hasn't been a drop
38:15
off, meaning that the level that you were able to set, the bar
38:20
you were able to set with Crazy Heart, you've been able to keep that
38:22
film after film on the level of the writing and the direct and because to
38:27
be honest, and I know you know this as well, there are directors
38:30
who pop. But then they overthink or they and then you could start seeing
38:35
it in their work, their work starts to drop off. Unfortunately. Do
38:38
you think when you wrote Crazy Heart where you were basically there was no pressure
38:43
to write Crazy Heart? Oh? Nobody, No. So it was such
38:47
a freeing experience that you let go. Do you are you able to continuously
38:52
do that with your work or do you start to do you get in your
38:55
own way and stop that flow sometimes from happening? Well, both only because
39:01
my work explores the darker corners of the human psyche, and since Crazy Heart
39:12
have gotten progressively darker. Although Pale Blue Eyes certainly it's not that, I
39:17
mean, that's much more accessible. So you try to guard against that only
39:24
because you know that your films affect people in the ways. I've been to
39:29
countless screenings over the last six movies where people have come out of my films
39:34
as though they were just you know, festivals screenings, as they were just
39:37
hit by a two by four, and you can tell that they're deeply moved
39:43
or deeply angered or upset, whatever it is. So you know, you're
39:50
sometimes mindful of that, like you know, and I never try to make
39:52
the same film twice. You make a music film, you make a gangster
39:55
movie, a western horror, family horror, trauma with antlers, and now
40:00
this we'll be right back after a word from our sponsor, and now back
40:09
to the show. So I never try to repeat myself. But I also
40:15
never let the audience off the hook, and that is something that you sometimes
40:19
have to be reminded of because look, we want, I mean, movies
40:22
are an expensive endeavor, and their investments want their movies at least to break
40:27
even, but they want to make money. You know, it is cliched
40:30
as it is. It is show business and not show art. So I've
40:32
been lucky to make the kind of films that I make. And quite frankly,
40:39
I think actors and other directors, whether they're in my contemporaries or people
40:44
that I have long long admired and became a filmmaker because of them, have
40:49
embraced my work in ways that the public just isn't aware of, and that
40:52
really keeps you going. Walter Hill got an email from Walter today telling me
40:59
how much that he loved Pale Blue Eye and what he thinks is my same
41:04
reason. I bring it up because you just mentioned it and how he's seen
41:06
my career a send. And you know, I think people are thankful when
41:13
directors really really respect the audience and want to give them something that's challenging and
41:20
something that's different and most importantly, something that and I do believe this will
41:24
stand the test of time. Let me, I gotta ask you this question
41:28
because I mean we you and I are both of a generation that remembers all
41:34
those great filmmakers you talked about, all those great movies from the seventies and
41:37
the sixties and the eighties, and I feel like those kind of filmmakers,
41:44
and to be honest, filmmakers like yourself aren't a dangered species right now because
41:49
of what's happening in the in the business. There's it's it's just getting crazier
41:53
and crazier. And if it wasn't for people like Netflix. You know,
41:58
a Pale Blue Eye, which is is your new movie that's not getting a
42:01
theatrical release today, that's not being made today, It just it wouldn't get
42:06
made unless it was with a streamer who wants to do that kind of work
42:12
because the studios. Honestly, if Scorsese is having a problem getting his films
42:17
made and yes to go to Netflix to get we're all in trouble so making
42:24
his new film right exactly. So what do you think about the future of
42:30
where we're going, Because as a film lover, I'm seeing I'm seeing a
42:34
problem. The new generation coming up its problem. I I mean, Christian
42:37
and I just spoke about it today because The Payable Eye is debuting on Netflix.
42:44
It's been in theaters for the last two weeks. I mean, I'm
42:46
eternally grateful that Netflix have allowed this film, should people want to see it
42:52
from the big screen experience, to debut in the top markets all over the
42:55
world. We've got two weeks to see it in a theater if you want
43:00
to see that, and should you want to wait until it comes to your
43:04
house, which is what most people will do to your home theater, that's
43:07
how the majority of people will see my film, then that's how they're going
43:09
to see it. I am eternally grateful that Netflix, Apple, Amazon are
43:16
making films that the legacy studios no longer want to make, because those are
43:22
the films that the reason I became a filmmaker, and the movies that still
43:29
excite me. I mean, I've been asked to do major superhero films or
43:35
the kind of films that guarantee an audience. I've been offered us many times
43:42
and have as of yet elected not to do them because I want to tell
43:45
these stories, stories that make me want to race out to see a film
43:51
on Friday night. It's getting tougher and tougher because if you look at this
43:54
fall in some of my pals, their films that debut ins animals, just
44:00
no one came to see them. And these are excellent films and made the
44:06
highest uh craftsmanship, in great performances, and it's it's a bit terrifying,
44:13
and we're you know, we're heading into uh potentially uh strike here. We
44:21
that's right, potentially could be facing would be facing you know, economic headwinds.
44:30
So all of these things make it more difficult for people to get their
44:34
films made, certainly more difficult than than it does for Scorsese or or or
44:40
the all those land most of myself whoever, are making you know, challenging
44:45
adult dramas. But still it's never easy. And and I fear that uh
44:52
people, until we're really beyond COVID, which we certainly are not. H
45:00
I think an older audience won't come back, and I think ticket price is
45:02
probably going to have to come down to to entice people to come back to
45:06
the cinemas. But I can assure you because if you look around in the
45:08
world, there's such great cinema being made, and those are the films that
45:14
I most respond to. Quite frankly, international filmmakers who've inspired me a great
45:21
deal over the last fifteen twenty years, they're still getting their films made.
45:27
Their home countries sometimes help subsidize them, which we don't quite have here.
45:35
It is getting tougher. But then every year movies come out and you think,
45:37
Okay, great, this is why we love cinema. It's just just
45:43
getting harder and harder, Alex. And it's what I'll call any filmmaker,
45:47
you should make the film you're about to make as though at your last Yeah,
45:54
and it's you know a lot of times. Well, first of all,
45:59
I think what you're said about the foreign films. We're getting access to
46:01
them so much easier now because of streaming services. They're just coming in and
46:07
something like Parasite winning the Oscar and things like that that would have never happened
46:10
ten twenty years ago, which just wouldn't have happened. So that's a good
46:15
Those are good signs. But the younger generation of filmmakers coming out, because
46:19
I teach these filmmakers, they listen to me all the time, and they
46:22
watched the show, and and I see them at festivals and I see them
46:28
at events and I talk to them, and it's just it's so much harder
46:31
now to get stuff off the ground than it was before, and especially to
46:37
tell the kind of challenging stories that you're telling, and I mean, any
46:42
of Kubrick's films, any of them. Try to release them today. Any
46:46
Kubrick film today, release it. It's not even possible. Can you imagine
46:52
the Clockwork Orange I watched the other day, just the first the first twenty
46:58
minutes of that. I'm like, you released that today. It's just not
47:01
in today's environment. You can't release a film like that or Taxi Driver.
47:06
No, are you kidding? Are your students disparited from from following their passions
47:13
or do they just going to be a tougher road to hope? Well,
47:16
this is the thing, man, I think that filmmakers, the younger film
47:21
generation coming up, are still stuck a lot of times in the glory days,
47:24
which in many ways for our generation was the nineties, which was the
47:30
independent film movement, the sun Dance movement, where and I've spoken to a
47:34
lot of these filmmakers, you know, the Ed Burns and the Rober rodriguezz
47:37
and the Tarantinos, these guys that they were legendary stories of what happened in
47:42
the nineties, and they're stuck into that world. And I think that that's
47:45
the path. And I keep yelling from the top of the mountain, this
47:49
is not the way anymore, as you can't. I talked to Ed Burns
47:52
about Brothers McMullen. That movie wouldn't make it today. Clerks wouldn't make it
47:57
today. El Mariachi wouldn't make it today. Flacker wouldn't make it today.
48:01
It's deep there and and they think that that's the path. So then I
48:06
have to kind of break that illusion a bit and then they go, well
48:08
what do I do? And I go, you the game is so different
48:12
now, and it's so much easier to make a film, but it's so
48:16
much harder to get it seen because when when we were coming up, it
48:20
was impossible to make a film because you needed thirty five, you needed sixteen
48:23
if you were lucky. And then you have to really understand technology. You
48:27
really need to understand lighting. Now anyone can make, you know. I
48:30
had Sean Baker on a few a couple times on my show It what he
48:34
did with Tangerine with the iPhone and cameras are so cheap and things look so
48:39
good. Sean's doing it the right way, Sean, No, Sean is
48:43
amazing, and he's you know Red Rocket. I love Red Rocket. I
48:45
saw that in the theater shot at sixteen. It was great, but that
48:50
but that it's it's I think people are starting to get disheartened a bit,
48:53
and I think, what where our generation looked into the nineties, let's say,
49:00
for hope, And of course obviously the seventies and the eighties and the
49:02
sixties and the great filmmakers and the legends were kind of like if you remember
49:07
when everybody wanted to grow up to be a rock star, right then in
49:13
the nineties, everybody wanted to grow up to be a director because Quentin made
49:16
it so cool and Robert made it so cool, and it was just like
49:21
everybody, yeah, Soderberg, everybody was so cool to be a director.
49:24
Now, the younger generation then they want to be content creators. They want
49:30
to be YouTubers to tell their stories, and they're able to monetize there much
49:36
faster than they could with film. And then don't get me started about film
49:38
distribution, which is a whole other world that I'm deep into as far independent
49:43
film distribution. So it's just a difficult, it's so hard man at certain
49:47
levels. Yeah, you're going to get the Ryan Couglers that come out of
49:51
film school and make some great films in your film like crazy heart these but
49:54
these are anomalies. We'll be right back for a word from our sponsor,
50:04
and now back to the show. I mean your stories and anomaly right.
50:09
So, I don't know, I don't know where this conversation is going,
50:13
but I just love to hear your thoughts on where you think from your point
50:15
of view. Well, now you may just crawl up in the fetal position,
50:21
Jesus Alan. Look Gamel del Toro, who writes my film Antlers,
50:28
and yes, who's a great pal of mine. He said, Look,
50:30
you know, if COVID remind us of anything, we know that we need
50:36
food, we need shelter, we need medicines, and we need stories,
50:40
and we will always need films. We will always need long form television,
50:47
whether it's content as you mentioned on YouTube, whether it's short films. People
50:53
need stories. We always have ever since when we go back to cavemen,
50:59
right of course, of course, and cave art in the caves and France
51:05
and elsewhere. So that I'm not concerned about what I am concerned about.
51:08
The economic headwins the difficulty to entry for the marketplace, the marketplace and distribution.
51:16
And my hope is that and I don't know that we're on the tail
51:22
end of COVID. Hopefully I still have it now and it's as bad as
51:28
ever, as intense as ever. Hopefully, once people come back, the
51:34
older audience come back to cinemas, perhaps it will get easier. But I
51:38
don't know that film going is the first choice for eighteen to thirty four year
51:45
olds. I have kids. They love going to the cinema. They try
51:49
to go as often as possible. But it's also because I'm a film director.
51:52
Of course, friends love to go to the movies, but they're also
51:55
on TikTok all the time, and they're on Instagram, and they're on YouTube
52:00
phones YouTube. Yeah, so it's it's, uh, there are many things
52:07
that are challenging our time for movies. It's it's it's it's expensive and time
52:15
consuming to get to the to the cinema. I hope that that changes.
52:19
I hope that that that it will shake out with COVID and the legas.
52:22
Studios now realize that making films like the films that I make, are more
52:27
important. But it's really all about economics, always has been, but you
52:30
know it has but I think that the studios are now run by corporations and
52:36
by boards of directors. Oh, but before they were run by filmmakers,
52:39
you know, you know, I mean arguably, Igor Bob Iger is probably
52:43
the only guy who understands. And look what he's done with Disney, for
52:45
God's sake, and God he's back, and think guy's back. He understood,
52:50
he understands story telling, understands filmmaking. But I remember growing up,
52:55
I worked at the video store and we would have movies like what about Bob,
52:59
you know, and these smaller films not in Virginia home right exactly,
53:02
So, these smaller films with big stars at nice budgets, you know,
53:07
ten million, fifteen million, that there was a shot they'd do ten of
53:12
those and one would pop and the other ones would do okay, and then
53:15
maybe two or three would bomb. But they will all work together. And
53:17
there was more content, more ideas, more things. And that's why we're
53:21
going back to those times to mind those ideas, because everyone's terrified of doing
53:25
that kind of stuff right now, where Netflix and Amazon and Apple aren't scared
53:30
to do that because their business model is different, that's right. And I
53:35
suspect that there are a lot of different streaming platforms which are expensive for people
53:42
to have six or eight of them. I imagine that there will be fewer
53:46
going forward, but those will still be providing great content. And that's of
53:53
course Netflix and Apple and Amazon Disney plus who are well capitalized. But then
54:00
I think you'll probably also see some consolidation and uh, the less buyers,
54:07
the worse off for all of us. Agreed, My friend agreed, that's
54:12
without question. Have companies like Sony Pictures Classics and my good friends at Fox
54:15
Searchlight who a couple of my films, and they and they really are run
54:22
by filmmakers, films a year in and year out. They're great supporters of
54:30
films A twenty four, yeah, twenty four four and uh and now and
54:34
of course Netflix. Netflix has a whole division that will allow you to make
54:37
Roma or Bardo or The Power of the Dog or The Pale Blue Eye or
54:44
on and on and on, and hopefully we can continue to make that because
54:46
there's so many young filmmakers who are listening to this podcast or your podcasts in
54:52
general, who have stories to tell and should be absolutely and if you can,
54:58
and if you have that burning desire that said, this is the only
55:00
thing I can do with my life, which is ultimately what I said,
55:04
then you'll find a way to succeed and tell your story. Amen, brother,
55:07
I think that's the that's the key is it's not and and maybe you
55:12
should maybe you can back me up on this. It's always not about the
55:14
talent, but perseverance, because there's a lot of people who are who are
55:20
around they're like, man, they're they're not the best, but they just
55:22
stuck it out. They just survived. Oh yeah, we all know examples
55:28
of that for sure. Yeah. And that's something they don't teach you in
55:31
film school. It's like, I don't look Michael Jackson, Michael Jackson,
55:35
Michael Jordan got cut from his high school team. Talent wasn't enough, Alan
55:38
wasn't He had to go in hustle and work and build it up and keep
55:42
going. And and that's something that I try to try to yell from the
55:45
top of the mountain here as well. Yeah, Hey, if you have
55:47
my pal Adam Sandler on to talk about Hustle, please, I would love
55:52
to have Adam on the show. Please call him up and let him know
55:54
because I love I don't know why he didn't come on Hustle. I love,
56:00
by the way, I love that movie love that he's a man,
56:04
and he's great in the film and and he's and if you want to talk
56:07
about Adam, and people always ask like, how come Adam keeps getting all
56:09
these this deal on Netflix? And I always say, like, the reason
56:14
why is because when you're on Friday night with your wife sitting on Netflix and
56:19
you're scanning all those thumbnails and you see Adam's face, you go, oh,
56:22
I know what I'm gonna get, and I'm gonna get something that,
56:28
and he's he's either gonna be super funny or when he gets into this dramatic
56:30
stuff, which's so underrated in his dramatic acting, he and he just he
56:36
gets it and he understands his brand, he understands what he's doing. And
56:39
man, he's unlike any other actor. I really he's He's done such amazing
56:45
stuff over the years. Whether you like his film, yeah, whatever you
56:50
like, I don't care if people like his films, and everyone has their
56:52
opinions on stuff, well you can't deny what the man has done and continues
56:58
to do it, keeps knocking it out of the park. I loved Hustle.
57:00
I loved Hustle so good power. I love the guy so let's talk
57:07
about the Pale Blue Eye, you know with Netflix. You know it looks
57:13
beautiful, dude, It's stunning. It is stunningly shot. It almost reminded.
57:17
It almost has a sleepy hollow vibe to it as far as I guess,
57:22
Yeah, that's right, that that has that kind of texture, well,
57:25
color aesthetic for sure. Yeah, it's it's stunning, man. So
57:30
tell me how that that whole thing came to be and and how you were
57:34
able. I mean'm assuming you gave the script to Christian. Christian said yes,
57:36
and then Netflix sid ye, Yeah, yeah, he read it probably,
57:38
Uh oh, I don't know. Ten or twelve years ago after we
57:40
did Out of the Furnace that he was too young to play Augustus Land or
57:45
the World where he Detective was too old to play Edgar Allan Poe. That
57:52
we'd always talked about it, and I've written a lot of things that that
57:54
I think he and I will make at some point. It's all about,
57:58
as we discussed early on in the podcast, all about timing availability, what
58:01
we feel like making. But we both were interested in what drives someone to
58:09
madness, how much pressure has to build before they explode in violence? You
58:15
know, what causes morality and decency to erode and otherwise decent people, right,
58:21
Real horrors seldom have easy explanations, and that's what we wanted to explore
58:25
with the story. In terms of the aesthetic, it was. It was
58:29
a brutal shoot. It's all. My wife thinks I'm a massacres. But
58:34
like I said, it was incredibly cold therese bracing winds coming from the northeast
58:38
are just almost Revenant style. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was.
58:42
It was tough, But that was all in serving kind of this Gothic aesthetic
58:49
and really trying to serve as an Edgar Allan Poe origin story that the two
58:58
Hours will take place in this film motivate Poe to become the writer that we
59:04
know and love, the writer of the macabre, the man who bequeathed to
59:07
us detective and horror fiction, the man who writes about tragedy and death and
59:14
the satanic and the occult and where life ends and death begins, all those
59:20
sort of things that kind of course through this narrative. And I thought that
59:23
again, in trying not to do safe work, Christian stood on that ledge
59:30
with me and we both took the leap and were yeah. So once I
59:36
attached Christian, my agency creative artists took the screenplay out and we got a
59:43
lot of bids from the Legacy studios, a lot of bids from streamers,
59:46
but Netflix made us an offer that we thought was too good to pass up.
59:53
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now back
1:00:00
to the show. In terms of having both theatrical experience and streaming, my
1:00:09
first platform experience, and also, uh, quite frankly, there there their
1:00:15
ranks are filled with great filmmakers who really understood the film and allowed me to
1:00:20
make the film that you see. I hope that people find it, you
1:00:24
know, starting today on the on the streamer, and allow people coming behind
1:00:30
me to make films that are similarly difficult to make in this marketplace. And
1:00:38
you've worked with Christians so many times now, I mean, you guys,
1:00:42
are you're scorses to his DeNiro at this point or to his DiCaprio at this
1:00:46
point. Uh, Christian is one of the greatest actors of his generation.
1:00:51
There's no question, one of the greatest actors of his generation. And his
1:00:55
physical transformations that he's done over the course of his life, which I know
1:00:59
has harmed wealth. Oh yeah, that's the part of myself. And there's
1:01:02
nobody who's ever done anything at that again and again and again and again.
1:01:08
From the Machinist the Batman, You're like, what, how? How?
1:01:14
How? It's really remarkable? What is the what is the biggest lesson you've
1:01:19
learned working with an actor like him? No detail is too small, and
1:01:24
always striving for the truth, always striving for excellence, and realizing that we
1:01:31
can always do better. And you need people like that to make you a
1:01:36
better filmmaker. I've spoken about it publicly. Christians, my closest pal,
1:01:40
my closest collaborator, is a brother to me and uh and I'm thankful that
1:01:45
that. As a director, I've had someone who has served as as a
1:01:49
muse for for the stories that I want to tell, and people continue to
1:01:55
come out and see our work. It won't be the end of it our
1:01:58
collaboration, for sure, but he pushes me to be the best filmmaker I
1:02:01
can be. And and quite frankly, I admired him more off the set
1:02:06
than I do on. He's He's an incredibly devoted father and husband and you
1:02:09
never see Christian in the public eye. You never see him on talk shows,
1:02:14
because he always thinks the less the public knows about him, the more
1:02:17
easily they will believe him as Batman or Dick Cheney or Augustus Land or in
1:02:22
the Pale Brewer where he pumps his gas, who he's partying with, where
1:02:29
he went for holiday. You never see it. Yeah, it's almost a
1:02:34
danielda Lewis vibe too, because when Daniel did, he just wouldn't you doing
1:02:37
nothing? You knew nothing about day. He just show up three ten years
1:02:40
later. I'll do a part now. That's exactly right. And and that
1:02:45
way you're able to be transported with the filmmakers to a world and you never
1:02:49
even question, hold on, is he dating? You're right, You're right,
1:02:53
he's He's brilliant on multiple levels, without question. Yes. And now
1:02:57
I continue to write for him. Now I have a few questions. Ask
1:03:00
all my guests, what advice would you give a filmmaker or screenwriter trying to
1:03:04
break into the business today. Tell personal stories. Tell personal stories that you
1:03:08
know will connect in a very universal way to people in America, people in
1:03:16
Iran, people in Afghanistan, people in Ukraine. All people need stories help
1:03:22
make personal films. What is the lesson that took you the longest to learn,
1:03:27
whether in the film industry or in life. And it's difficult, but
1:03:30
patients and to believe in yourself and to believe in your stories, and to
1:03:37
believe that you'll ultimately cultivate your talent in such a way that it will be
1:03:43
undeniable that people will want to work with you. But it all takes patience
1:03:46
and experience and the toughest question. Of all three of your favorite films of
1:03:52
all time, I would say, even though I have yet to make a
1:04:01
documentary, I love them. I would say Barbara Copple's Harlan County, USA.
1:04:08
That's a great one, something that really has influenced me. The Maze
1:04:11
Old Brothers Salesman. Here's another. I would say, Jean Pierre Melville's Les
1:04:18
Samurai. Nice, very nice, very nice. List. My friend Scott
1:04:25
Brother, I appreciate you coming on the show and sharing all your knowledge and
1:04:29
experience with the audience. Man, and please continue to make a movie great
1:04:31
questions, man, keep it up and please people in all seriousness. Don't
1:04:36
lose faith. Gotta tell stories. I want to thank Scott so much for
1:04:41
coming on the show and sharing his journey and dropping his knowledge bombs on the
1:04:45
Tribe today. Thank you so much, Scott. If you want to get
1:04:47
links anything we spoke about in this episode, including how to watch his new
1:04:51
film The Pale Blue Eye on Netflix, head over to the show notes at
1:04:56
Bulletproof Screenwriting dot tv. Forward slash three forty eight. Thank you so much
1:05:00
for listening to guys as always, keep on writing no matter what. I'll
1:05:03
talk to you soon. Thanks for listening to the Bulletproof Screenwriting podcast at Bulletproof
1:05:09
Screenwriting dot tv.