Latest / The Spiro Podcast: Managing your Real Estate Photography & Videography Business / Scott Golmic: How to Grow from 0 to 20K in a Month

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Scott Golmic: How to Grow from 0 to 20K in a Month · The Spiro Podcast: Managing your Real Estate Photography & Videography Business

• 0:00
  Coming up on this episode of The Spiro podcast.
• 0:04
  I think as photographers in general, if you get stuck into art mode,
• 0:08
  you start thinking, How can I be better and better and better and better?
• 0:11
  And I think that there's truth in that.
• 0:14
  It's like it's good to always be wanting to improve,
• 0:16
  but if people don't know who you are, it doesn't matter how good your product is.
• 0:20
  And so people need to know who you are first and foremost.
• 0:23
  And so I think that'd be the recommendation
• 0:25
  to anyone getting started or even anyone in business.
• 0:27
  You got to answer the question, Do people know who you are?
• 0:30
  Welcome to the Spiro podcast.
• 0:33
  Managing your real estate photography and videography business
• 0:38
  with your hosts, Todd Kivimaki
• 0:40
  and Craig Magrum
• 0:44
  Hi, and welcome to the Spiro podcast,
• 0:45
  Managing your real estate photography and videography Business.
• 0:49
  Spiro is a software platform that's designed to help you manage
• 0:53
  your day to day real estate media business,
• 0:55
  but really to help it grow and scale as well.
• 0:58
  Welcome back to another week.
• 0:59
  If you're a longtime listener, a viewer, if you're a first time
• 1:02
  guest, well, guest that's the right word.
• 1:06
  First time listener viewer.
• 1:07
  Welcome to the podcast.
• 1:09
  Spiro is all about the business of real estate, photography and videography.
• 1:14
  Todd and I have said many times there's a lot of great resources out there
• 1:18
  on the creative side of what we do as photographers and videographers
• 1:22
  in the realm of of real estate.
• 1:24
  And we encourage you to check those resources out.
• 1:26
  Just do a search on YouTube.
• 1:28
  You'll find all sorts of great videos
• 1:30
  and other podcasts out there, but we really want to help you build
• 1:33
  a strong business to help you achieve the goals that you have in your
• 1:37
  your personal life and in the life of your family
• 1:39
  and and those around you that you're empowering through business.
• 1:42
  So welcome to the podcast along with me each and every week, our
• 1:46
  our co-host and owner and founder of Spiro, Todd Kivimaki
• 1:51
  Craig, happy Friday
• 1:53
  to us for whatever day it is to you listeners.
• 1:57
  And we're getting close to Christmas, so maybe it's already happened,
• 2:00
  but I'm excited the year is coming to an end here.
• 2:03
  Exciting things coming up.
• 2:06
  Let's dive right in.
• 2:07
  Yeah, I had to dress up for the occasion here.
• 2:10
  Todd.
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  Oh, Craig, I didn't even notice.
• 2:13
  So for those of you that are just listening to us,
• 2:18
  for those of you that are just listening,
• 2:20
  it is worth heading over to the YouTube
• 2:23
  and seeing Craig's attire right now, because this is fabulous.
• 2:27
  So I'm not even going to say what it is.
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  It's just worth it.
• 2:30
  Seeing his Christmas cheer right now.
• 2:33
  We were talking that
• 2:34
  Craig is going to go to Vegas next year or wherever the conference is at.
• 2:38
  And I, I feel pretty strongly that Craig
• 2:41
  needs to wear this, wear this outfit.
• 2:44
  So when you go to the YouTube, give it a thumbs up if you can.
• 2:48
  This is no ploy to get you to just give us thumbs up,
• 2:51
  give us thumbs up at this point.
• 2:53
  And we're going to peer pressure, Craig, into wearing not only going
• 2:58
  but wearing this outfit at the conferences next year.
• 3:01
  Todd, you're my employer.
• 3:02
  Do I really have a choice if you tell me to do it,
• 3:06
  Yes, it is.
• 3:07
  It's just by the people.
• 3:08
  It's what I believe in. It's what our country was founded on.
• 3:11
  That’s what I'm sticking to, Craig
• 3:14
  You know, I was telling our guest who we're going to introduce here
• 3:17
  in a little bit that I by nature, I am an introvert, honest, honest.
• 3:23
  And so I'm not really outwardly demonstrative in larger groups of people.
• 3:28
  - But when I'm comfortable, - you are wearing the outfit you have on today.
• 3:32
  And here's why.
• 3:34
  When I'm comfortable with a group, I let loose a little bit.
• 3:36
  You got to have some fun Life short.
• 3:38
  It's Christmas time.
• 3:40
  Yeah.
• 3:40
  Got to spread some Christmas cheer here, right?
• 3:43
  Yes. And I have an idea, Craig.
• 3:45
  So you know how they put blinders on horses so they don't like.
• 3:49
  That's just what it is right now.
• 3:50
  You don't know how many people are looking at you right now.
• 3:53
  Like, not to freak you out.
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  But yes, there's just three of us in this room right now.
• 3:58
  But like, come on, I think we're just going to get you some blinders.
• 4:01
  in Vegas, it'll be good anyway, so you need a lot of blinders on.
• 4:03
  Vegas. It will surprise you purposes.
• 4:06
  Oh, my gosh. Okay, let's.
• 4:08
  - Enough of this. Let's dive in. - Oh, this is fun.
• 4:10
  Let's keep going. I'm getting warmed up now.
• 4:13
  You like to make people uncomfortable, but I guess I brought it on myself anyway.
• 4:17
  All right.
• 4:17
  It is the Spiro podcast.
• 4:19
  We like to always open up the podcast
• 4:21
  with updates on Spiro, the software and what's going on.
• 4:24
  So, Todd, I'm going to turn things over to you.
• 4:28
  Yes, a quick update if you don't want to hear him hit, fast forward
• 4:30
  four times, That'll be a minute and you want to hear me updates.
• 4:34
  So we're redoing the way Dropbox, we're going to host videos with Dropbox,
• 4:39
  so we're going to get rid of Vimeo, which is going to be huge.
• 4:42
  Vimeo was is is great.
• 4:44
  I think it's a great platform.
• 4:45
  They just got really, really expensive since we started using them.
• 4:48
  We're in a grandfather plan.
• 4:50
  Well, we're on an enterprise plan with Wow, which is very expensive,
• 4:53
  but you guys now are having a big expense so we don't like that.
• 4:57
  We don't want that. And you guys already pay for Dropbox.
• 5:00
  It's already integrated. We're going to go to Dropbox.
• 5:02
  We think it's a great solution, so we are excited about that.
• 5:06
  We're going to make a quick update to the way you can add
• 5:09
  additional appointments to give you some more flexibility.
• 5:13
  So this was an update that happened, maybe a month, month and a half ago
• 5:17
  where you can quickly easily send someone back out to shoot the drone
• 5:21
  because it was raining, the reshoot the master bedroom,
• 5:24
  or to send two photographers, one for Twilight, one for non Twilight.
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  So all of those examples of special cases that happen, we're going to give
• 5:32
  a few more flexible options in there for you to quickly
• 5:35
  schedule what you want and mark what you don't want as well.
• 5:39
  So we are excited about that.
• 5:41
  Then coming up, looking into the new year,
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  we have some big ideas
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  and we want to make sure they align with your big ideas.
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  So it is always super helpful for us to know
• 5:52
  what you guys want where there are gaps in your business,
• 5:57
  where do you feel like you need some extra help or
• 5:59
  where do you think software could further streamline your business?
• 6:03
  We've got a great page for that.
• 6:04
  That's the feedback board.
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  Also the Spiro Super User Group.
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  Post them in there on the feedback board.
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  You can upvote other user suggestions,
• 6:15
  kind of see what the most voted on suggestions are.
• 6:18
  That's a great place for us again, by the people.
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  Craig I'm sticking to it.
• 6:22
  This is this is my pitch today.
• 6:24
  But collectively as a group we want to do what's important to you guys
• 6:29
  to bring the most value.
• 6:31
  I'm having a flashback to the Post Malone.
• 6:33
  face tattoo that we had.
• 6:36
  It’s funny you bring this up, Craig.
• 6:37
  Glad you didn't put that up for a vote.
• 6:39
  That that ballot issue has been expired so that
• 6:44
  are we pass our timeline on that
• 6:46
  we are
• 6:47
  Yeah. Statute of limitations on that. Yeah.
• 6:50
  I'm going to have to read that document to see how we can get
• 6:53
  that back on the ballot, because they have a lot of tattoo artists in Vegas.
• 6:57
  - When we take you there and - I bet they do.
• 6:59
  I bet they do. Yeah.
• 7:01
  I was tempted.
• 7:01
  Briefly wants to get a tattoo and then my boss at the time said,
• 7:05
  Do you really want to deal with that when you're 80 years old and
• 7:07
  it's all saggy and
• 7:10
  - it becomes a new thing, - you have a good point.
• 7:12
  You know, my boss's name was back then. Was Todd as well.
• 7:15
  What is it with my bosses and the name Todd?
• 7:18
  Really good name. Yeah.
• 7:19
  Yeah, it's a it's a it's not a very common name.
• 7:23
  Okay.
• 7:26
  I don't know.
• 7:26
  This is good content, y'all.
• 7:28
  Let's. Let's get to some better content, Craig.
• 7:30
  Right, Right.
• 7:31
  So last week we had an awesome, awesome guest,
• 7:36
  Assaf Lowenstein, and shared some great information
• 7:40
  as part of the owner spotlights series on business Continuity.
• 7:44
  I just really enjoyed that episode.
• 7:47
  Todd He he just had some great info.
• 7:50
  And one of the things that we're going
• 7:51
  to be trying to do here at the end of the year and in 2025 is do
• 7:54
  more of those owner Spotlight series type episodes
• 7:57
  because there's a lot of great information out there from other owners
• 8:01
  and other experts in our industry that we want to highlight in and learn from.
• 8:05
  So we have another guest this week that I'm really excited to have on.
• 8:10
  I didn't have the pleasure of seeing his presentation at Rep 2024.
• 8:14
  But Todd, you did you want to introduce our guest this week?
• 8:19
  Yes. This is an individual I've gotten to know and I love his energy.
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  If you guys have ever been around him or talked to him, his energy is
• 8:26
  just incredible, always super positive.
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  I feel like if I'm going to do something
• 8:31
  like I want this guy with me because we're just going to go and do it.
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  We're going to be positive about it all the time.
• 8:36
  We're going to figure out a way.
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  And that is just a really a refreshing, refreshing
• 8:42
  mindset to have, especially as as owners, you know, it's tough.
• 8:46
  We as owners of your company, you're doing something that not many people do.
• 8:51
  So seriously, kudos to all of you.
• 8:53
  It's not easy to own your own business.
• 8:56
  And there's times when our left brain gets in our way and we overthink.
• 9:01
  And as I look back over the last 20 years of being in business,
• 9:06
  you know, I'm like, wow, that was I was kind of a negative time for me.
• 9:10
  And over the years you learn mechanisms to stay positive
• 9:13
  and this individual is just a breath of fresh air to be around.
• 9:18
  I got the pleasure to hang out with him while we were in Vegas.
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  We we went down the Fremont Street.
• 9:24
  Craig, we won't take you there, but we went down the Fremont Street.
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  We walked up and down the lit canopy and just had a good time
• 9:33
  doing that.
• 9:34
  Also, this other end of this individual is very tall as well.
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  So I don't feel like you all come up to me in Vegas.
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  You're like, Wow, you're really tall.
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  Yes, I am. So is this individual.
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  So I feel like he's a he's my brother from another mother.
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  And I don't know where I'm going with that.
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  But anyways, Scott Golmic, y'all, he is on the podcast.
• 9:57
  Many of you know him and love him.
• 9:58
  Scott, welcome to the show
• 10:01
  man.
• 10:01
  It is so cool to be here and listen to the podcast all the time.
• 10:06
  So it's great to get a chance to be on it with you guys.
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  Scott told me before we started recording that he found it
• 10:12
  funny and I'm like, Did he actually mean corny?
• 10:15
  Was corny. The word he was looking for
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  I didn’t get the memo on the dress code.
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  I wish I knew.
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  I agree, Scott.
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  I was I was a bit shocked, too.
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  I just wanted to see what reaction I got out of you during the staff
• 10:32
  meeting this morning, Todd
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  - it worked. - I loved it, Craig.
• 10:35
  I think it's fabulous. Yeah.
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  And in his background, he had a virtual background
• 10:39
  in the staff meeting this morning, and it was Harry and Marv
• 10:41
  and the toy shop, and they were right on each side
• 10:44
  of his head and he was just sitting there as well.
• 10:46
  So it was great. I love it, Craig. I love the festive cheer.
• 10:48
  - Brought a smile to everyone's face. - Good, good.
• 10:51
  That was the point.
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  I'm glad you enjoyed it.
• 10:53
  So, yeah. Welcome, Scott.
• 10:54
  Glad to have you. Don't don't worry about the dress code
• 10:59
  now, Scott, can you for those
• 11:01
  of you that for those listeners that don't know you,
• 11:04
  can you just give us a little bit of background
• 11:06
  about how you got into real estate
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  photography, kind of what your business is doing now,
• 11:12
  and just bring us up to speed with your real estate photography business?
• 11:17
  Sure.
• 11:17
  Here's maybe the the minute recap.
• 11:19
  So for the last ten years had shot professional sports
• 11:23
  while living in Pittsburgh.
• 11:24
  So at NFL stadiums, pirate games, penguin
• 11:27
  games and loved it, we just felt convicted.
• 11:30
  It was time to move and didn't know what work was going to be,
• 11:34
  but it felt like it was the adventure that our family needed to go on.
• 11:38
  And so whenever we listed our house for sale in Pittsburgh,
• 11:43
  we chose our realtor based on the quality of her photos.
• 11:46
  And just with my video background, I wanted somebody that was going to market
• 11:49
  our house well.
• 11:50
  I had no clue that real estate photography was an industry,
• 11:54
  but we legit picked our realtor based on her photos.
• 11:57
  When I met her photographer, that's when I was like,
• 12:00
  I think I can do this, and did the deep dive and learned as much as I could.
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  So we moved to Florida on March 10th, 2023
• 12:09
  and at that point started reaching out to realtors.
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  My first shoot was two weeks later, a free shoot, March 27th,
• 12:16
  and then things escalated pretty quickly and thankful for it.
• 12:20
  That year, about three or four months in did like 10K towards the end of that
• 12:26
  year, about nine months in, hired our first part time photographer.
• 12:30
  And at this point, no. So we're about a
• 12:34
  I don't know, 20 months in or something like that
• 12:36
  just had our first $30,000 a month, which was a huge win for our company.
• 12:41
  - That's amazing. - Oh, that is incredible.
• 12:43
  Scott, I knew some of the background of your story.
• 12:47
  I didn't realize the timeline was so small.
• 12:49
  You've done it so quick.
• 12:51
  I thought you were in business many more years because the way you've
• 12:55
  grown and scaled and just your business mindset, kudos to you.
• 12:59
  That's exciting.
• 13:01
  I appreciate you saying that.
• 13:03
  It has been a whirlwind.
• 13:04
  You know, I feel like as a parent, you hear that line.
• 13:06
  The days are long, the years are short.
• 13:08
  I feel that not only as a parent, but in business as well.
• 13:11
  And so, yeah, it's flown by and excited where we are and excited
• 13:16
  to just imagine where we can be going.
• 13:18
  Scott, a question popped into my head
• 13:21
  immediately when you shared with us how, how fast things grew.
• 13:25
  So you moved to northeast Florida.
• 13:28
  You're in the Jacksonville area, correct?
• 13:30
  Okay.
• 13:31
  So I've got to believe that there was there's quite a few real estate
• 13:35
  photography companies and individuals in that market already.
• 13:38
  So did you find that the market was pretty saturated with other photographers?
• 13:44
  I didn't know or care.
• 13:46
  And to go back to the blinders comment
• 13:49
  the blinders comment that Todd had, I wasn't looking.
• 13:52
  I was just going and trying to introduce myself to as many realtors as possible.
• 13:57
  And I think that's one of the traps that you can get into in this business, is
• 14:01
  you start looking at what others are doing and then you feel bad about yourself.
• 14:05
  It's like in your personal life comparing your life to everyone
• 14:08
  else's, like perfect social media, that's not their perfect life.
• 14:11
  And so it's the same thing in business, just
• 14:15
  not looking.
• 14:15
  And that's what it was. It was just kind of pedal to the metal.
• 14:18
  The other thing is we we moved down there.
• 14:20
  There was no Plan B, so that helped.
• 14:23
  I don't know if I would recommend that to everybody, but we had to work.
• 14:26
  We had to go in.
• 14:27
  So there was an incentive like no other to to get business in.
• 14:32
  So the outreach was there and just trying to become the best known photographer.
• 14:37
  I think there's a lot of value in that,
• 14:38
  just making sure that people know who you are.
• 14:40
  And anyway, yeah,
• 14:42
  I think that that's what attributed to some of the success early on.
• 14:45
  So you just said a couple of things
• 14:47
  that were in your presentation that you just recently did.
• 14:50
  Todd Did you mention that that that's
• 14:53
  yeah, the repp
• 14:54
  conference is where Scott presented at
• 14:56
  I think you mentioned it. Craig Okay.
• 14:58
  Okay.
• 14:59
  See, I'm too close to Christmas and vacation.
• 15:02
  My mind is going into into neutral.
• 15:05
  So Scott, you did, you did a presentation as part of the panel at Repp 2024
• 15:09
  and I was watching your presentation on Eli's channel
• 15:12
  and two of the things that you just said are the notes that I made.
• 15:15
  You made a comment during your presentation
• 15:17
  that the best known photographer is better than the best photographer.
• 15:23
  I'm like, Whoa,
• 15:25
  So can you expound on that a little bit?
• 15:27
  I don't think I could credit for making that up, but I do.
• 15:30
  That was an instrumental point for me and in my business is that
• 15:35
  I think as photographers in general, if you get stuck into art mode,
• 15:39
  you start thinking, How can I be better and better and better and better?
• 15:42
  And I think that there's truth in that.
• 15:44
  It's like it's good to always be wanting to improve,
• 15:47
  but if people don't know who you are, it doesn't matter how good your product is.
• 15:51
  And so people need to know who you are first and foremost.
• 15:54
  And so I think that'd be the recommendation
• 15:55
  to anyone getting started or even anyone in business.
• 15:58
  You got to answer the question, Do people know who you are?
• 16:01
  And if not, how can you find more people to work with you?
• 16:06
  You know, people buy from people they know like and trust.
• 16:09
  And if you're a photographer, trusts you and likes you and knows
• 16:12
  that you represent them well, when you're on that shoot for them,
• 16:16
  there's
• 16:17
  there's most of your success right there.
• 16:19
  Let me tell you about Vegas real quick.
• 16:20
  I've never been so nervous in my life.
• 16:23
  I mean, here you go. I've.
• 16:24
  I enjoy speaking.
• 16:27
  Put me in a brokerage presentation. I'm okay.
• 16:29
  I like that.
• 16:30
  All of a sudden, the lights are down, the stage is lit up.
• 16:34
  You've got 250 people in a room, which
• 16:37
  maybe doesn't sound like a whole lot, but this room was so long.
• 16:40
  I got up there and it was immediate, just like dry mouth.
• 16:44
  Where did everything go?
• 16:45
  And and it was it was wild.
• 16:48
  But I ask Todd the night before, I said, do you have any advice?
• 16:52
  And he said, Just know that everybody in that room is your friend
• 16:55
  and they want to hear what you want to say.
• 16:57
  And that was really helpful.
• 16:58
  So I appreciate that because that was that was a test to take it up on that stage.
• 17:04
  And so thankful for that opportunity and appreciate that encouragement.
• 17:08
  Yeah. Scott,
• 17:10
  if you had that dry mouth, it wasn't apparent.
• 17:12
  I mean, I was engaged the entire time.
• 17:15
  You did a fabulous just a fabulous presentation.
• 17:18
  There are so many gold nuggets in there and truly, like just being yourself.
• 17:24
  And I'm just I've been around Scott a handful of times
• 17:27
  and I've talked to him, We've had conversations, but every time
• 17:30
  I do, I leave going like, Man, today's a great day.
• 17:34
  And that is a quality that I don't know if you understand.
• 17:38
  You have that. Scott, but that's a quality you have.
• 17:40
  And I think the quality that is like I went now,
• 17:43
  I looked inside myself like this. Every time
• 17:47
  is every time that I'm leaving a conversation, do I leave that
• 17:50
  in a better way?
• 17:51
  Does that person does that person understand that
• 17:55
  You know, there's positivity.
• 17:56
  There is you know,
• 17:58
  I share my faith, Craig, And I have shared our faith, you know, is as a Christian.
• 18:01
  That's what our goal is.
• 18:02
  As you know, I want to make sure that they see me as different.
• 18:06
  And Scott, you every time I leave a conversation with you, I'm like,
• 18:09
  he is just the happiest, most positive individual.
• 18:12
  Like he is fun to be around. He's contagious to be around.
• 18:15
  So it's no wonder your business grew so fast,
• 18:19
  you know, once you left.
• 18:21
  Well, I.
• 18:22
  I appreciate you saying that. That means the world.
• 18:25
  Let me tell you your guys podcast.
• 18:28
  I feel like I know you guys
• 18:30
  and I've listened to you in the car the whole time or all the time.
• 18:33
  And so
• 18:35
  the way that you've shared your faith is been very impactful to me.
• 18:39
  And then also just the idea that the tagline at the end
• 18:42
  to just breathe, I feel like every time I hear
• 18:44
  that is the exact right moment, I need to just breathe
• 18:47
  because business is wild and things are going, okay, just breathe.
• 18:51
  Thank you for that reminder.
• 18:53
  Yeah, I have a little bit of a question
• 18:56
  backing up on this idea because I think it's
• 19:00
  just so it's the perfect idea of
• 19:03
  like the best known photographer is better than the best photographer.
• 19:07
  So again,
• 19:08
  the person that has the largest fear and the most friends or connections in
• 19:13
  the industry is better than a photographer who is quality
• 19:18
  wise, art wise, the best photographer out of the group.
• 19:23
  I'm curious, Scott, how
• 19:26
  because your background was shooting very high end, like the idea of shooting,
• 19:31
  you know, NFL professional, you know, sports games like
• 19:35
  that is the idea of how can we do it the best
• 19:39
  and head shots as well.
• 19:41
  You know, I'm sure there is every time
• 19:42
  every headshot you took, you were probably thinking,
• 19:44
  how can I make this next shot, my next best head shot?
• 19:50
  Where did
• 19:52
  so you sell the house, move away.
• 19:55
  And I assume maybe, maybe it's not fair to say you have that mentality.
• 19:58
  Maybe I'm just wrong about what you had done in the past, but
• 20:01
  I'm assuming you were always pushing every day to make the quality better.
• 20:06
  Then you move.
• 20:07
  You kind of burn the ship, so to say, and you had this ability
• 20:11
  to flip the switch and go, Wait a minute, I understand this market's different.
• 20:15
  I what's the most important is being known.
• 20:19
  I have to you know, quality has to be good enough.
• 20:22
  But how did that where did you learn that?
• 20:25
  Have you always had that or how did that how did you flip that switch?
• 20:30
  Truthfully, I heard it from Eli.
• 20:32
  I watched a lot of his content early on and there were a couple of things that
• 20:35
  that helped.
• 20:36
  I think he even made that come just like not getting stuck in art mode.
• 20:41
  And I think that that was really important early on.
• 20:44
  It took me a very long time to shoot a house
• 20:46
  because I was trying to be perfect and have the exact right angle
• 20:50
  that nobody else can see the difference in besides me and us.
• 20:54
  Maybe if we look at it.
• 20:55
  And so
• 20:56
  one of the things that I started to do was to just use a stopwatch
• 21:00
  and just to make sure that I'm on track.
• 21:01
  You know, it was like some
• 21:04
  good pressure on me to get in and get out of the house.
• 21:08
  And I think that this is true for clients.
• 21:10
  It's like, as much as quality is important, so much is time on site.
• 21:16
  You know, you can't be there that long because you're inconveniencing the realtor
• 21:19
  and the homeowner.
• 21:19
  So I think just realizing pretty early on you got to get in and out
• 21:23
  and then the other thing too, was sending media.
• 21:27
  It was a lesson I had to learn of like, okay, the quality is good enough,
• 21:31
  send it and see what happens and everyone continue to say, Hey, it looks good.
• 21:35
  And so yeah, there was definitely a pivot of having to be
• 21:39
  perfect and always striving to be better and also saying
• 21:43
  we need to just get this product out and it's, it's good as is kind of thing.
• 21:46
  Yeah, that's and that's Eli Jones for you
• 21:50
  those you that don't know
• 21:51
  so our good friend Eli Jones you can find him over on YouTube
• 21:55
  I believe he's at it's Eli Jones he he has done a fabulous job
• 22:00
  with putting out again a lot of business information with how to grow a business.
• 22:04
  And so you can find more information there.
• 22:06
  Now, Scott, one thing that I think you also have an uncanny ability is
• 22:12
  you take advice and you go and run with it.
• 22:15
  I know there was another situation where
• 22:18
  I think another you were at a at a conference, right?
• 22:20
  A gathering.
• 22:21
  It was a Eli Jones conference.
• 22:22
  And basically it came down that
• 22:26
  you should stop doing something.
• 22:29
  Do you mind sharing that story?
• 22:31
  Because you did it. You did it right away.
• 22:33
  That seems scary, i’m like. Oh, boy.
• 22:34
  Like to my mind, like, okay, wait a minute, you want to do this?
• 22:36
  And then you saw the benefits from it. Do you mind sharing that?
• 22:39
  - Because I think there's a lot to learn there. - Yeah, absolutely.
• 22:43
  So I was
• 22:44
  around the $20,000 revenue month mark,
• 22:48
  and so I was at a mastermind conference and we were kind of going through all of
• 22:52
  our businesses.
• 22:53
  And Eli at that point said, at this point, shoots are bad.
• 22:57
  Let's like it threw me for a loop. shoots are good,
• 23:00
  shoots are what bring in revenue shoots are great
• 23:02
  And he said you're going to stall and you're going to slow your business
• 23:06
  if you are the one that continues to do the shoots.
• 23:08
  Now, I don't know if they're saying that 20,000 is that number
• 23:10
  for everybody, but just that mindset of like there's
• 23:13
  a tipping point that you can't shoot anymore,
• 23:15
  you're going to stall your business and so you need to have photographers
• 23:18
  on your team and not only have them on your team,
• 23:21
  you need to be sending them first and foremost.
• 23:24
  And so that was such a radical change in, in my mind,
• 23:28
  my business that that night I went home,
• 23:31
  went into Spiro, and I took my name off the list.
• 23:34
  All right.
• 23:34
  If they say don't shoot, I'm ready.
• 23:38
  I'm not going to I'm not going to shoot. I like shooting.
• 23:40
  But if that's what's best for the business.
• 23:41
  And so that night went home and did it and told our team, like,
• 23:45
  all shoots are going to you first.
• 23:46
  Now, it hasn't been perfect.
• 23:48
  I have still shot,
• 23:49
  but I'm in a situation now where I'm more of the emergency shooter.
• 23:52
  Something comes up in our team is booked or not available.
• 23:56
  I can hop in and do it.
• 23:57
  If there's a VIP client and they really want me to shoot,
• 24:00
  I'll still try and point them to the team.
• 24:02
  But if there's any issue that they would go anywhere, great.
• 24:05
  I'm coming in and I'll shoot the property.
• 24:07
  So that's kind of where we are right now.
• 24:09
  And I think that that's one of the biggest things
• 24:11
  that I need to step into next year is more of that owner role admin role
• 24:15
  and continue to hire a team and continue to send the team out.
• 24:19
  And so that was pretty radical
• 24:22
  of a change and I think so in the coaching program, Todd I learned
• 24:25
  so much from you in that program and with all the coaches there,
• 24:29
  I don't get the idea of like not implementing right away.
• 24:32
  To me,
• 24:32
  it just seems like
• 24:33
  if you're going to tell me to do something, you've done it 20 years done,
• 24:37
  I'm going to do it tonight. Like I'm not going to waste any more time.
• 24:39
  And so, yeah, try and just do everything as fast as you can.
• 24:43
  that's the opposite of what our brains tell us
• 24:45
  are left brain tells us.
• 24:46
  So wait a minute. I've never done this before.
• 24:49
  This person's telling me to do it.
• 24:50
  It seems scary because I've never done it before, and the ability
• 24:55
  to just go and do that is is a is a great skill.
• 24:58
  Scott
• 25:00
  There's a difference between knowledge and wisdom.
• 25:02
  Knowledge is just, you know, knowing facts.
• 25:05
  Wisdom is the application of knowledge.
• 25:07
  So if you can take someone else's knowledge and apply it
• 25:10
  to your situation, that's that's operating and wisdom.
• 25:13
  So take yeah take take coaching apply
• 25:17
  that knowledge in and watch what what what it does for you.
• 25:21
  You know Todd you and I have talked about that that tipping point that Scott
• 25:25
  just mentioned of removing yourself and I with my business.
• 25:30
  I didn't want to grow into that larger
• 25:33
  type of business where I stepped back as, as owner
• 25:37
  and took my hands off because I enjoyed the creative process so much.
• 25:40
  And so I stayed small and was more the boutique type of real estate company.
• 25:45
  But now obviously part of Wow video tours, it's
• 25:48
  kind of the best of both worlds.
• 25:49
  I get to still do the business development and the shooting, which I enjoy,
• 25:53
  but now I'm part of an organization, a larger organization that can serve
• 25:58
  our clients even better than I was able to as as a solopreneur, basically.
• 26:03
  So, Scott, would you say it's fair that, you know,
• 26:06
  there's different strokes for different folks?
• 26:08
  Maybe they don't have the goal of growing a larger business
• 26:11
  100%.
• 26:12
  There's no right or wrong.
• 26:14
  It's what is right for you and your goal.
• 26:16
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 26:17
  The point being, take the wisdom.
• 26:19
  You know that from others and apply it to whatever your situation is.
• 26:23
  Yeah, that's perfect.
• 26:25
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 26:26
  I think one of the scary things that can be with that is sometimes
• 26:30
  if we want to grow and be the owner, I would say
• 26:33
  probably a lot of people that listen.
• 26:35
  Most of the people that listen to this podcast probably have that
• 26:39
  that mindset that they want to scale a business,
• 26:41
  otherwise they won't be listening
• 26:43
  this podcast because we're really not that entertaining otherwise.
• 26:46
  So you're getting content that sorry, Craig, almost put your coffee out.
• 26:52
  So so I would say
• 26:54
  most of you out there listening have that mindset.
• 26:57
  The thing I would caution you and doing
• 27:01
  is thinking that your situation is different than Scott’s,
• 27:05
  thinking that your situation is different than mine.
• 27:08
  You're going to say, Oh no, Scott was different
• 27:10
  because he had to do it because he was in a new city.
• 27:13
  He had no other choice.
• 27:14
  I've had this job and I have health care and I have these three other variables.
• 27:19
  No, your situation is not any different or if you go, Todd's done it for 20 years.
• 27:22
  It was way different 20 years ago.
• 27:24
  Yes. The world was black and white 20 years ago, but it was not any different
• 27:28
  than what it is now. Don't.
• 27:31
  That's the biggest thing when I talk to you all is
• 27:34
  I always try to stress whenever I give advice and I.
• 27:38
  I talk about brokerage deals or how to scale.
• 27:42
  It took me a
• 27:44
  long time to do it and there was bumps along the road.
• 27:47
  But the consistency of doing that and I think that's what it boils down
• 27:52
  to a lot, is taking advice, being consistent and not looking back.
• 27:55
  Your situation's not any different.
• 27:58
  It's not any different other than the fact that maybe
• 28:01
  that's a truth to you, but not true in this world.
• 28:05
  So if you want to scale in 2025, you know,
• 28:09
  we're at the time of year that you need to start thinking about 2025.
• 28:12
  As a business owner, what do you want your business
• 28:16
  to do for your family this next year
• 28:19
  and work those goals backwards If you want to scale,
• 28:23
  I would highly suggest you listen to Scott's story
• 28:27
  and you look at making some of the moves
• 28:31
  that he made because they were scary.
• 28:35
  and Scott has those moments.
• 28:37
  He would probably tell you it was a little nerve wracking,
• 28:39
  but I just did it like, I'm going to take the advice.
• 28:42
  But it does work.
• 28:43
  There's tried and true plans that you can run on, and the idea
• 28:47
  of focusing on your business, having the mindset that you doing shoot is bad.
• 28:51
  I loved that from Eli, you doing shoots are bad.
• 28:55
  You know, if you're at 20K a month and you want to get to 30K a month,
• 28:59
  if you do shoot and you're stuck at 20K a month
• 29:04
  over the course of one year when you could be at 30K or more,
• 29:07
  you've just burnt $120,000,
• 29:11
  10K over 12 months, you've just wasted 120,000
• 29:14
  by not making that decision to stop shooting.
• 29:18
  I think that's
• 29:18
  one thing for me next year is I have to get out of the way,
• 29:21
  you know, whether it be a limiting belief or thinking like,
• 29:24
  Oh man, 30 is good, that might be as high as we can go.
• 29:26
  I don't think that I necessarily believe that.
• 29:29
  But there are things that you're
• 29:31
  just talking about right there that are definitely keeping us down
• 29:35
  that I need to eliminate so that we can just grow more next year.
• 29:39
  And it's so cool to be in a community that you see others winning in
• 29:42
  and you get to hear their stories because it does make you think like man,
• 29:46
  I can do this too.
• 29:47
  And so I don't know.
• 29:48
  Do other industries have this great of a community?
• 29:50
  I can't imagine that like there's a plumber community or something
• 29:54
  that has a podcast that everyone listens to.
• 29:56
  This is phenomenal and it's so cool to get to know everybody.
• 30:00
  Yeah, for sure.
• 30:01
  I agree wholeheartedly.
• 30:03
  Scott, can I can I dig a little bit more into your presentation as we're talking
• 30:06
  about business growth?
• 30:09
  Let's dive into some kind of practical.
• 30:11
  So you went from starting a brand new business, $0
• 30:14
  to hiring was it three or four photographers?
• 30:17
  Was it was your presentation
• 30:19
  so that for that person that's getting ready to maybe make that step,
• 30:22
  take that leap of faith and back out, you know, from shooting so much,
• 30:27
  What what is the first step in in even pursuing that?
• 30:30
  How do you hire a photographer?
• 30:31
  Is a photographer the first person you should hire?
• 30:35
  Yes, I do think that a photographer is the first person you should hire.
• 30:39
  And then I love the model of a part time photographer.
• 30:43
  I love that they get paid while they shoot.
• 30:45
  And if there is a slow day or slow week
• 30:47
  that has already been communicated during the interview process
• 30:51
  and they're okay with that, that I don't have the stress that expenses
• 30:54
  are going out as revenue is not necessarily coming in.
• 30:57
  And so to find that person, I think some people feel
• 31:00
  like it's a trap to think that that person doesn't exist.
• 31:03
  But that's not true.
• 31:04
  I've got four great people on my team that that fit that model
• 31:08
  and this is what they wanted to allow them to do some other things.
• 31:11
  So that that model and I think the other trap is people
• 31:14
  thinking that, oh, my clients aren't going to want anyone else to shoot but me.
• 31:18
  I've had like a handful maybe say that, but it hasn't
• 31:21
  been nearly as much of an issue as I thought it would be.
• 31:25
  So I would hire a part time photographer.
• 31:28
  And our first photographer was the is the worship leader at our church.
• 31:33
  He works at the church, but on Fridays he doesn't work.
• 31:36
  And he was looking just to make some extra money to pay off his mortgage.
• 31:39
  He likes cameras.
• 31:41
  Great.
• 31:41
  Like this is ideal, you know, I know the person.
• 31:44
  I trust
• 31:45
  that they are going to treat our clients well or homeowners well, all the things.
• 31:49
  And he already has an interest in cameras.
• 31:51
  I'll show you exactly how we shoot it.
• 31:53
  And there's just so much trust in sending our team out.
• 31:55
  So I think if you can find that person
• 31:59
  for me
• 31:59
  personally, again, this is like it's not right or wrong for me.
• 32:02
  I would much rather hire somebody that is kind of in a circle
• 32:06
  that I know or as a referral from somebody I know as opposed to posting.
• 32:11
  Indeed at least in this stage of business because it's
• 32:14
  just so easy to then trust them and send them out
• 32:18
  there. Yeah, I would.
• 32:19
  I would look there first and Gerri didn't have a ton of availability.
• 32:23
  I mean, he was available Fridays in maybe a morning or two in the week.
• 32:27
  So potentially could be four shoots
• 32:30
  in the grand scheme of things.
• 32:31
  That's terrible availability.
• 32:33
  But in that season of life, in that season of our business for shoots,
• 32:37
  I think I was doing 12 shoots a week.
• 32:38
  Four is huge and he could take somewhat off
• 32:41
  and if I could just buy my morning back on a Friday
• 32:44
  or if I could buy my whole day Friday, that changes.
• 32:46
  And so I would if you're in the spot of hiring and you're
• 32:49
  feeling stuck, man, go find that person that's in your circle.
• 32:53
  Tell them you're looking to hire.
• 32:54
  And if you can find somebody that's willing to do a day or maybe two or week,
• 32:59
  at least get you that rep of interviewing,
• 33:02
  of training, of the whole process, introducing people to finance.
• 33:05
  Now the next person who might have
• 33:07
  a little bit more availability, you've already done it.
• 33:09
  And so then you do it again and it's just get the ball rolling,
• 33:12
  I think is the is the point here instead of waiting and
• 33:15
  and think you have to hire this perfect full time photographer. Yeah
• 33:18
  yeah.
• 33:19
  That was one of the things I left your presentation with, Scott was that
• 33:22
  I was really examined my life as what items was
• 33:26
  I maybe holding back on even subconsciously because I was like,
• 33:29
  I don't know if that's going to work, where it's like this idea of
• 33:33
  progress over perfection.
• 33:35
  Am I trying to be too perfect with something?
• 33:38
  Like you mentioned, you found
• 33:39
  you got rid of the idea that this perfect hire doesn't exist.
• 33:43
  You got that out of your mind.
• 33:44
  Like, let me look for this person.
• 33:46
  You found this person
• 33:48
  and such a great point that this person is someone that's in your sphere.
• 33:52
  So they're going to be a little bit easier to train
• 33:54
  in the fact that you have a relationship with them already.
• 33:57
  You know, you can trust them and they're going to give you
• 34:02
  a little bit of grace because they're the first person you've trained.
• 34:06
  So you're going to learn some things through training
• 34:09
  and then the next time you go, you're going to
• 34:11
  you could potentially be a little bit of a different person.
• 34:14
  You're going to be better at doing it because you've done it already.
• 34:17
  So that that idea of progress over perfection is is something that
• 34:22
  I try to examine every day in our business and what we're doing.
• 34:27
  I would much rather make a decision and then course correct along the way,
• 34:32
  as opposed to waiting on the sidelines, trying to figure out the exact
• 34:35
  perfect situation.
• 34:38
  Yeah, I would rather just go.
• 34:40
  So mistakes are inherent part
• 34:42
  of growing a business and we've all made them.
• 34:46
  So we talked a little bit earlier about knowledge and wisdom.
• 34:49
  So the mistakes that you've made, Scott, what what knowledge
• 34:53
  have you gained from those that you could pass on to somebody else
• 34:56
  that maybe isn't at that point yet but could avoid those mistakes?
• 35:00
  What what wisdom would you share with them?
• 35:02
  Yeah, there's there's definitely some things along the way that
• 35:07
  I wish I would have done differently.
• 35:09
  And so a couple of them are like creating boundaries.
• 35:12
  I think that there is an element of it might be good early on in business
• 35:16
  to just like you want to shoot.
• 35:17
  Yes, yes.
• 35:18
  Yet you say yes so many times you can grow the business.
• 35:21
  It also comes a tipping point of like, Wow, your yeses are affecting family.
• 35:25
  Your yeses are affecting your personal life.
• 35:26
  So creating some boundaries.
• 35:28
  I don't know where that is.
• 35:30
  I do think that there's value in saying yes.
• 35:32
  I do think that I wish I would have created
• 35:34
  a little bit more boundaries my life, and that's certainly a goal in 2025
• 35:39
  in stepping into more of an owner role and creating boundaries and systems
• 35:42
  to protect time with family, to protect weekends and protect time.
• 35:46
  So that's one.
• 35:48
  The other thing is not celebrating.
• 35:51
  Like when you first start, you hit 10K and you're like, Oh my gosh, I can
• 35:55
  Like if you can get there, you're like, okay, cool.
• 35:58
  How about 20?
• 35:59
  You know? And it's like, What in the world?
• 36:01
  We just worked as hard as we could to get to 10K.
• 36:04
  Why not celebrate it, you know?
• 36:06
  And so we did have a maybe $15
• 36:10
  bottle of champagne once we hit 30K Okay
• 36:13
  that was our celebration
• 36:14
  But I do think that it's like, man, I wish I would have.
• 36:18
  It's just
• 36:18
  maybe it's an entrepreneurial spirit of like constantly moving the goalposts.
• 36:23
  We're like, you have a goal, okay, we're going on to the next one.
• 36:26
  And it's like, then that's the can't be healthy.
• 36:28
  You have to be able to
• 36:30
  celebrate the goal that you've been working towards.
• 36:33
  And so that would be one,
• 36:35
  clearly define your goal and when you hit it,
• 36:37
  what what's that celebration going to look like?
• 36:40
  Do you do you feel like if you don't pause to do that celebration,
• 36:43
  that that could affect morale?
• 36:45
  Is there a psychological effect not celebrating might have on your
• 36:48
  on your team?
• 36:49
  I haven't thought about it, but I think that that sounds great of like,
• 36:52
  yeah, of course, you know, yeah, life's too short.
• 36:56
  Why weren't we celebrating more, you know?
• 36:58
  And so yeah, that's what I guess if there is one more thing.
• 37:03
  You had asked earlier about hiring a photographer first and I jumped in there
• 37:07
  because I want to say yes, I do think that you want to hire a photographer.
• 37:11
  Definitely, in my opinion, before an admin
• 37:13
  or before hiring somebody, somebody different.
• 37:16
  But I would put a caveat in there.
• 37:18
  I wish I would have hired a virtual assistant before our photographer.
• 37:23
  And so at the time, I didn't.
• 37:25
  And so I'm training, but I'm still doing the delivering in the morning
• 37:28
  and I'm still doing a lot of these tasks that I don't necessarily need to do.
• 37:32
  I wish I would have hired a VA before Jared to completely offload delivery.
• 37:37
  That was another one of like,
• 37:38
  why is it so hard to hand over the reins of delivery?
• 37:42
  But man, am I thankful to have done that now and have a virtual assistant to do it.
• 37:47
  I feel like I could have maxed out a little bit
• 37:49
  more as a solo photographer if I had a VA in place.
• 37:54
  But yeah, so thankful to have him.
• 37:56
  So that's maybe something else along the way.
• 37:58
  If you don't have a VA and you’re approaching,
• 38:00
  I don't know, 15 20,000 and you're your day is just Max,
• 38:04
  you're delivering, you're shooting all day, you're uploading at night.
• 38:08
  A virtual assistant can definitely help you buy back your time a little bit.
• 38:12
  Scott I think that's so great.
• 38:13
  And the fact of those are ways that you can easily buy back your time.
• 38:18
  And for those listeners out there that don't have a virtual assistant, a VA,
• 38:24
  what what task are they doing for
• 38:27
  you each day just so our listeners know what they can offload?
• 38:31
  Yeah, I mean, their tasks have grown and
• 38:34
  so if you don't have a VA yet, I would start with one task
• 38:37
  and they are delivering for you and if that's all they do.
• 38:41
  So I have two Vas, both work four hour shifts and have kind of different roles.
• 38:46
  And so I can go into that a little bit.
• 38:48
  But the first VA that I hired is strictly QC and Delivery
• 38:53
  has a photo editing background came from a referral from Tyler Graham,
• 38:56
  a real estate photographer in Myrtle Beach.
• 38:59
  Anyway, if you can just offload that task, that changes your mornings.
• 39:03
  And so I would start there and do nothing else until they've mastered that.
• 39:07
  I use loom quite a bit to record how I did it, send it to them.
• 39:10
  And so that was part of the training and it might have taken a week or two
• 39:14
  until they felt comfortable to try it and then they did it.
• 39:16
  And you're like, Holy cow, I never have to go back to QC and Delivery.
• 39:19
  So I think somewhere along the way it's just been a trap that like some people,
• 39:24
  when they hire a virtual assistant, they give them
• 39:26
  20 things to do and then they wonder, Why isn't this working?
• 39:29
  Why isn't my virtual assistant crushing?
• 39:31
  Well, there's 20 things take the highest,
• 39:34
  most important task and give that to them and then slowly add.
• 39:37
  So to give you some other examples,
• 39:40
  they will
• 39:40
  handle and it requests a lot lines get a touch ups.
• 39:44
  At this point, you Know the IG method
• 39:46
  that Eli coaches and talks about reaching out to realtors.
• 39:49
  He's now doing that for me, finding realtors on Instagram
• 39:54
  and then when they follow back,
• 39:55
  I have a video recording a text message that he's sending them.
• 39:58
  So that's part of our outreach.
• 40:00
  He's also finding
• 40:02
  houses that maybe don't have great photos on homes.com.
• 40:07
  And so whenever he finds those, he's putting that into a spreadsheet
• 40:10
  and then eventually sends kind of like a cold email to them about
• 40:13
  would you be interested in refreshing or updating your photos?
• 40:17
  And so he's finding those for me.
• 40:18
  I know that it would be better if I just got on the phone and called,
• 40:23
  but it was not happening for so long that it felt like we need to
• 40:26
  just at least get this ball rolling.
• 40:29
  And so he's doing some of that.
• 40:30
  And so that's another thing that I think a virtual assistant can do.
• 40:34
  Documents, any mistakes photo editors are making
• 40:37
  so that I can just easily communicate that to editors,
• 40:40
  builds an ongoing invoice.
• 40:41
  So at the end of the month, whenever I get my invoice from our editors,
• 40:45
  I can compare it to what our virtual assistant says,
• 40:47
  just to make sure there's no discrepancies.
• 40:50
  He's monitoring my emails for me.
• 40:52
  And again, these are all things that have grown into it sending review requests.
• 40:57
  That's been phenomenal.
• 41:00
  And then kind of building playbooks and then also texting clients
• 41:04
  that we haven't worked with in 90 plus days, kind of a check in point.
• 41:08
  And so that's everything. Those are the tasks that he does.
• 41:10
  I have a separate virtual assistant that does a little bit more social media
• 41:15
  specific stuff, but anyway, it's been a game changer having them.
• 41:19
  Oh, that is great.
• 41:21
  That's just a cheat sheet you gave us. Scott.
• 41:22
  So thank you for that.
• 41:24
  Rewind that back to you all, write those task down.
• 41:27
  Start with QC and delivery and show them how to do it.
• 41:31
  Record yourself doing that, watch them doing it.
• 41:35
  Let them do it and watch them and then have them do it
• 41:37
  and confirm that it was correct as you take them through.
• 41:41
  Yeah. Can I hop in real quick?
• 41:42
  I feel like I also just want to share what our other virtual assistant is doing
• 41:46
  and just give you a little bit of perspective.
• 41:48
  I might be paying my virtual assistants too much.
• 41:51
  I heard that at the conference, paying $7 an hour
• 41:54
  and they they do a tremendous job.
• 41:56
  And so for 4 hours it's $28.
• 41:58
  And you have to reconcile in your head if they only QC and deliver and you
• 42:02
  get to buy back your time your morning, would you be willing to pay $20?
• 42:06
  The answer is yes, always in.
• 42:08
  So that is literally the only task done.
• 42:10
  Everything else is is bonus.
• 42:13
  Okay, so our other virtual assistant brought on a referral from again,
• 42:17
  like even the virtual assistants have been referrals are kind of like
• 42:19
  within a network and so that's what's worked for me a realtor.
• 42:23
  Her social media really stepped up. I talked to her about it.
• 42:25
  She had a virtual assistant.
• 42:26
  I asked, Is there room for her to do more work?
• 42:29
  And now I'm working with her.
• 42:30
  So at this point, her priority is social media.
• 42:33
  We don't have like a calendar necessarily.
• 42:35
  It's just constantly hear the ideas
• 42:37
  and we're always working like two or three days in advance,
• 42:40
  creating layouts
• 42:42
  on Instagram, using Instagram, IG layouts.
• 42:46
  So the stories we just show three vertical sorry,
• 42:49
  we show three horizontal photos in that vertical frame
• 42:52
  and we tag the realtor, we tag the brokerage like a cheat code.
• 42:55
  They then are looking for content they shared on their channel.
• 42:58
  Now we're in front of their whole office because they've shared our very simple
• 43:02
  IG story.
• 43:03
  So she's doing these things again.
• 43:05
  Like I could be doing it, but I wasn't in.
• 43:07
  So it was like, Is it better for me to do nothing
• 43:10
  or to bring on somebody that can just be consistent for us?
• 43:13
  And so liking post managing my inbox, she did a market research project, finding
• 43:19
  other companies in the area.
• 43:20
  I just want to make sure we're in the ballpark of pricing all of our services.
• 43:26
  She created a list of every brokerage in the three counties we serve in,
• 43:29
  sent a cold email, and then I'm going through and following up with them.
• 43:33
  She also just built our newsletter and so this is phenomenal.
• 43:37
  Like we're now three months into having a newsletter, which is exciting,
• 43:41
  sending client care emails two days later.
• 43:44
  Just to follow up, make sure you got your media okay.
• 43:48
  if you haven't left to review, would you be willing to leave us a review?
• 43:51
  And then also here some training in its how to use spiro, how to maximize spiro.
• 43:56
  And so that training's in there
• 43:58
  anyway, I can go on with the list
• 44:00
  but start small and then grow that list from there.
• 44:04
  Pick your, your,
• 44:06
  the activity that you can offload that's causing you the most stress,
• 44:09
  probably fair to say, offload the things that aren't
• 44:12
  necessarily revenue generating
• 44:14
  so that you can spend your time building more business.
• 44:17
  That 32nd plug to a book that rock my world
• 44:20
  Buy Back Your Time by Dan Martel talks about time audits in there.
• 44:24
  I don't know the three specific words, but it's basically you like audit
• 44:27
  your time, You figure out which things you need to offload and then you fill it
• 44:31
  with a higher leverage activity and then you just repeat that cycle.
• 44:35
  And every time you go through cycle,
• 44:36
  like it's time for me to do the time audit, it's I need to to do that.
• 44:40
  And I do those spots to, to be able to offload some of these tasks also.
• 44:45
  That's that's a wisdom you can share with your clients as well.
• 44:48
  Especially, you know, new,
• 44:49
  newer realtors that are trying to do it all by themselves.
• 44:52
  They're trying to take their own photos, they're trying to edit their photos,
• 44:55
  their videos.
• 44:56
  Is that really building their business, you know, showing them the value of how
• 45:00
  you can bring benefit to them
• 45:02
  and help them grow their business by offloading those things off their plate
• 45:06
  so that they can go out and network and build business.
• 45:10
  I mean, you're adding value to their their business,
• 45:12
  just like your VA’s are adding value to yours.
• 45:15
  Yeah, that's a good point.
• 45:16
  I'm a huge I'm a huge believer in the time audit.
• 45:19
  I think we did a podcast on this or a portion of a podcast, but I'm
• 45:23
  I just started again you are I'm holding up so here's my time audit
• 45:26
  and so it's a simple it's it's literally a time tracking.
• 45:30
  So this timesheet is Monday through Friday and we can we can find a copy
• 45:34
  and put there for you but this is Monday through Friday seven until 8 p.m.
• 45:39
  and of course you're not going to use it all but every 15
• 45:42
  minute block, you just writing down what you're doing
• 45:45
  and over the course of a day in a week,
• 45:49
  you then at least the way that I do and I had a coach
• 45:51
  teach me this was you go back through and you categorize
• 45:55
  those activities as admin
• 46:00
  he used nurse and doctor kind of mentality where the doctor is
• 46:03
  the highest the most bang for your buck if you will.
• 46:08
  Admin is those things that Scott just talked
• 46:10
  about, like, hey, we're not, I don't need to do these.
• 46:14
  In fact, it's a waste of my time to do these and I can train someone to do these.
• 46:17
  So if you've never done a time audit, now's a great time to do it
• 46:21
  and just really see where you're spending your time
• 46:23
  and then another good time is maybe in six months
• 46:26
  when we're back into busy season.
• 46:28
  And I suggest you do those time audits for at least two weeks.
• 46:31
  So you get a really good idea.
• 46:33
  I know you're like, Oh, Todd, you want me to write down for two weeks?
• 46:35
  Yes, do it. I do it.
• 46:37
  I won't tell you to do it. If I didn't do it myself.
• 46:39
  And I do this twice a year, at least I do it for way more than two weeks.
• 46:43
  And it is one of the most valuable things I have ever done.
• 46:46
  Because I look back at it, I'm almost horrified like you did that.
• 46:50
  Or the other thing you do is you realize like,
• 46:52
  Wait a minute, do I really want to write this down
• 46:55
  or do I want to take account that
• 46:57
  I just spent 30 minutes on Facebook like, No, I check it.
• 47:01
  We all need to be on it. We need to check it.
• 47:03
  But when you start scrolling, you start watching
• 47:05
  those stupid little videos of someone.
• 47:07
  It's for me, it's basketball
• 47:08
  because, you know, I'm in the algorithm for basketball plays.
• 47:10
  And what I watch like three too many basketball plays.
• 47:13
  Like I got to get off here.
• 47:13
  This is not valuable for my time.
• 47:15
  our guest, if you're just hopping in, Scott Golmic,
• 47:19
  he is the owner of the. I Love your business named the Real Estate.
• 47:24
  I can't even say it. How do you say it Scott?
• 47:25
  The Real Estateographers
• 47:27
  Let’s go.
• 47:27
  Wether you need a photographer or videographer just call The Real Estateographers
• 47:31
  That's the idea.
• 47:32
  it’s a long name
• 47:34
  long email address.
• 47:35
  So Scott gave a presentation at the REPP conference 2024 and Scott,
• 47:41
  when as a business owner, when you find yourself kind of stuck in a situation or
• 47:47
  too much on your plate,
• 47:48
  what what, what would you suggest to the owner
• 47:51
  to kind of step back or
• 47:54
  get out of that stuck situation?
• 47:56
  Yeah,
• 47:58
  Yeah.
• 47:59
  Well, the time audit, I would absolutely do that.
• 48:00
  But there's this saying that really impacted me and it's
• 48:04
  When in doubt, Zoom out and I would just encourage everybody to do that.
• 48:08
  If you're going through a hard season or it feels like
• 48:11
  you're doing way too much or whatever, if
• 48:15
  it's kind of like the stock market, if you look at like every second
• 48:19
  or minute, hour or whatever.
• 48:22
  But if you zoom out, ideally you're just seeing this in.
• 48:25
  The idea is if you
• 48:28
  zoom out from the pressures of the day
• 48:29
  to day and get a glimpse on business
• 48:33
  and what however long your business has been in play like, for me,
• 48:36
  we're 20 months in and there has been a roller coaster ride.
• 48:40
  Please know that this has not been all easy and smooth sailing.
• 48:43
  There are a number of days waking up, not knowing what is going on and
• 48:48
  trying to just figure it out.
• 48:49
  So just in full transparency, this is not all rainbows over here.
• 48:54
  And so the idea of just, yeah, when in doubt zoom out was really impactful to me.
• 49:00
  Todd, can I can I share a practical example?
• 49:02
  When he said that something just exploded in my head?
• 49:06
  Yeah, be great.
• 49:07
  Okay, so you know that my youngest son, Zeke
• 49:10
  and I, we started jujitsu training back in March of this year, right?
• 49:13
  Yeah. Yeah. And that that finished up.
• 49:15
  It was a father son cohort that we did through our church.
• 49:18
  And the physical aspect of this cohort was our was
• 49:21
  this jujitsu training that where we earned our yellow belts.
• 49:24
  So I decided to continue.
• 49:25
  I've never been in a fight in my life.
• 49:27
  I've never thrown a punch in my life.
• 49:29
  Okay.
• 49:29
  So the fact that I decided to continue kind of I'm blowing my own head, that
• 49:34
  I have these goals to to just get myself in better shape physically.
• 49:38
  And I've found that it helps me
• 49:41
  mentally, you know, kind of unplug from everything else.
• 49:44
  Because when you're in jiu jitsu, when when you're grappling with
• 49:48
  with this other guy
• 49:50
  and they're trying to throw an armbar on you
• 49:52
  and they've got control of what's called the box,
• 49:54
  which is, you know, your shoulders, your hips.
• 49:56
  And there's one other I'm blanking out on when they have control of that
• 50:00
  box and, and
• 50:02
  or maybe you have control of theirs, but they're trying to get out.
• 50:06
  You're kind of stuck in this situation, right,
• 50:08
  where you got to figure out very quickly what you're going to do next.
• 50:12
  our instructor.
• 50:15
  Scott, the phrase is almost exactly the same.
• 50:19
  When in doubt, circle out.
• 50:21
  Everything is circles.
• 50:22
  In jujitsu, it's circling out of the position that you're in
• 50:25
  to open yourself up to other possibilities
• 50:29
  of your plan of attack, basically.
• 50:31
  So that that was a beautiful example you just shared of zoom out
• 50:36
  so that you can get the bigger picture, so that you can then reengage
• 50:40
  and keep moving forward with whatever your plan is.
• 50:43
  So thank you for sharing that.
• 50:45
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 50:46
  I love that. To circle out. Yeah. Yeah.
• 50:48
  I think it's so, so relevant this idea of zooming out
• 50:51
  just a few practical things because I'm not good at that.
• 50:54
  There's times where I still do day and I look back, I'm like, I didn't zoom out.
• 50:59
  And I think I tie this in to the idea that Scott gave earlier of just moving
• 51:03
  the goalposts where you get the 10K and you're like, Oh, what's 10K anymore?
• 51:07
  It's no big deal. Like I should have been at 20.
• 51:09
  I was like, Now wait a minute, the goal was ten.
• 51:11
  And when we were doing no K, you know, or
• 51:15
  we're doing one shoot a week, 10K was fabulous.
• 51:19
  So just a couple of practical things that I try to do.
• 51:24
  I try to screenshot wins an email
• 51:27
  or I write it down and I to keep and I keep in a folder
• 51:31
  and we share those as a team
• 51:34
  and I encourage the other team members
• 51:37
  to just take a screenshot or just save that moment in time
• 51:43
  that we had that win.
• 51:45
  And then we share those at Friday meeting.
• 51:47
  We have a staff meeting on Friday for Wow and then we have a staff
• 51:51
  meeting on Thursday, So we always start off with wins.
• 51:54
  What was good this week and I think that's just one thing.
• 51:58
  That is because when I, when I sit in Friday morning meeting
• 52:02
  and I sit there and I and if I don't save them or if my team doesn't
• 52:06
  save them, you look back and you go,
• 52:09
  what the heck happened this week?
• 52:10
  And you remember when Sally was unhappy and when Tom could
• 52:14
  unzip a video, you know, a zip folder.
• 52:17
  And when a photographer, a drone, like you remember those things, that's
• 52:20
  the way our brain works, you know, at least the way my brain works.
• 52:24
  I remember what went wrong,
• 52:26
  but I don't sit back there and go, Oh,
• 52:27
  Jess did this incredible thing and Besa put in these 12 orders in a room,
• 52:30
  figure it all out.
• 52:32
  And Jessie did this thing where she she referred two people in and collected
• 52:35
  a lot of invoices like so screenshot it's super simple.
• 52:40
  Write it down.
• 52:41
  Keep just at least keep a log of it somewhere.
• 52:44
  And then just one more thing on that.
• 52:46
  If you have kids, encourage
• 52:49
  your becoming teenager kids to do this.
• 52:54
  John Acuff, We mentioned him quite a bit.
• 52:56
  He has a podcast that is called All It Takes is a Goal.
• 53:01
  He wrote a book for teens and it's called How Teens Win. I'm coincidentally
• 53:06
  I'm reading that to my ten year old and my 12 year old right now.
• 53:12
  And one of the very early things that actually his daughters
• 53:16
  wrote the book, which is kind of cool that his daughter suggested,
• 53:20
  and John had them do this as their dad, but had them write down those wins.
• 53:26
  I think it's an incredible correlation that
• 53:30
  our brains as a entrepreneur and a business owner
• 53:34
  are very much like 10, 12, 13, 14 year old boys or girls.
• 53:39
  And for those of you that don't know or haven't been around,
• 53:42
  I've had I've had the blessing to coach a seventh grade team this year.
• 53:46
  I've coached younger.
• 53:46
  I'm still am, but
• 53:48
  I have a seventh grade team that is teens and I haven't had a teen yet.
• 53:51
  So I'm learning things as a dad I’m learning things as a coach
• 53:56
  and just the anatomy of a brain.
• 54:00
  The frontal lobe of a
• 54:03
  male of a boy does not develop until they're 18.
• 54:06
  You know what your frontal lobe does, you all?
• 54:10
  it makes you not jump off of something when it might hurt you.
• 54:15
  It makes you not say something that is crazy.
• 54:19
  You're not allowed like it's your decision making.
• 54:22
  A little tap on the shoulder that says this is probably not a good idea
• 54:26
  to do this.
• 54:27
  And your kids don't get that until they're 18 years old.
• 54:32
  So having them write down those wins, and I think as entrepreneur,
• 54:37
  we don't get it until we're 18 years old in business.
• 54:40
  It actually took me longer.
• 54:42
  Like I look back over 20 years now, I'm like,
• 54:44
  Wait a minute, I just didn't connect the dots.
• 54:47
  Like my frontal lobe of business did not develop yet.
• 54:50
  I had all these great things, but everything was telling me it's bad.
• 54:53
  So I would suggest just to write that down and a long winded approach.
• 54:57
  But I think it's so valuable to celebrate those wins, like Scott said,
• 55:02
  and to just get it as a very easy way,
• 55:06
  a concrete way to remember them, because your brain
• 55:09
  doesn't want to remember them because it's just the way we're wired as humans.
• 55:12
  Scott do you have any tips
• 55:13
  on the idea of when in doubt, zoom out.
• 55:16
  I'm fascinated with that. I love that idea.
• 55:19
  Did you have
• 55:20
  what was the tipping point you where you said, wait a minute, I'm pushing too hard?
• 55:24
  You talked about setting boundaries.
• 55:25
  The family was kind of your moment was like,
• 55:28
  wait a minute, I need to change something here.
• 55:30
  There's been a number of those moments along the way,
• 55:33
  so I don't know that there is just one, but
• 55:37
  I think as a solo shooter, it was just becoming
• 55:39
  way too much to try and do everything.
• 55:41
  And so hiring that was like a tipping point.
• 55:43
  But even this past September, it felt like everything stopped.
• 55:48
  The business stopped.
• 55:49
  There were no calls, there were no emails.
• 55:51
  I thought, okay, it was a fun run, you know, throw in the keys and
• 55:54
  and go start something else.
• 55:55
  But it's like, it's crazy what your mind can do to think that
• 55:59
  after a slow day, maybe a slow week, a slow
• 56:01
  two weeks, your confidence is shot.
• 56:04
  My confidence is shot.
• 56:06
  And so I look back at it, but it was like four weeks of just really quiet business.
• 56:12
  There was a hurricane, maybe some other things.
• 56:13
  I don't know what was going on, but it was slow.
• 56:15
  In September and that kind of threw me for a loop.
• 56:18
  And so that kind of mentality, I mean, I'm not perfect at it, but even
• 56:22
  just saying it helps change your perspective and man,
• 56:27
  if you can just have a conversation with that kind of topic
• 56:30
  in mind about zooming out, then I think that you'll be a lot better.
• 56:32
  But I don't know, something
• 56:33
  that definitely helps his community to having people around you,
• 56:38
  other real estate photographers around the country or wherever,
• 56:41
  just to connect and ask them some questions and
• 56:44
  all of a sudden they can give you some truth
• 56:46
  that you already know, but you're not allowing yourself to hear.
• 56:49
  And so I think that's probably
• 56:52
  one of the best ways that you can do it, is just get connected in a community.
• 56:56
  We were we were meant for community at my my worst times in life that I've found
• 57:00
  is when I get stuck inside my own head
• 57:02
  and you kind of isolate yourself off from everybody else.
• 57:04
  So, yeah, that's that's great advice, Scott
• 57:06
  just incredible information.
• 57:08
  Scott,
• 57:10
  As we wrap up here,
• 57:13
  any remaining advice or words of wisdom
• 57:17
  you want to give our listeners?
• 57:18
  Yeah, you know,
• 57:19
  I've got revenue goals for next year at REPP, I wrote down
• 57:22
  I want to have a $75,000 month and it's a huge jump from 30.
• 57:27
  A lot's going to have to happen to get there.
• 57:29
  So it's fun to have those revenue goals.
• 57:31
  But one of the best nuggets
• 57:35
  that I heard at the conference was not even
• 57:38
  at the conference. I mean, it's amazing.
• 57:40
  You go to these things
• 57:41
  and it's the lunch that you had with somebody, the breakfast.
• 57:43
  You go to Fremont Street with Todd and the gang.
• 57:46
  You know, like those conversations are incredible.
• 57:49
  Well, there was one conversation that really stuck out, and it was with Austin.
• 57:53
  And he said, I want to be famous at home.
• 57:57
  And I just love that concept because I think that
• 58:01
  I want to provide for family.
• 58:03
  I want to grow this business.
• 58:04
  Yeah, I love growing the business and I have goals there,
• 58:07
  but man, I don't want to miss the mark at home.
• 58:09
  And so
• 58:11
  anyway, I can get a little emotional talking about it.
• 58:14
  That's my goal for 2025 is to be famous with kids
• 58:18
  at home, famous with my wife at home and just being present in so
• 58:24
  putting those boundaries into place, continuing to grow the business,
• 58:28
  but really focusing on family is my goal in 2025 and we own a business.
• 58:33
  We get to do that.
• 58:34
  We get to make those decisions to create that time.
• 58:38
  Sometimes it's easier said than done, you know, like you start a business
• 58:41
  because you want to have more time and more money
• 58:43
  and then you just invest all of your time and money into growing it. But
• 58:47
  I see what's
• 58:48
  possible out there and I want to achieve those revenue goals
• 58:52
  while achieving just an incredible family
• 58:56
  and at home.
• 58:58
  Wow. Scott Wow.
• 59:01
  That is hits home with me.
• 59:02
  I mean, they hit me in the chest
• 59:03
  and I think that's something that is just so valuable.
• 59:07
  And I think it's something that we maybe need to talk more of on this podcast.
• 59:11
  I think the demographic of our listeners
• 59:16
  might just be in a marriage,
• 59:20
  know, getting married or maybe just having kids.
• 59:23
  I'm not really sure. I'm just kind of guessing.
• 59:25
  I would say overall, you know, as I think about
• 59:27
  seeing the people in the room
• 59:29
  or on a community, you know, on Facebook, I would say overall they're younger.
• 59:33
  And I think that's something something that
• 59:38
  as being
• 59:39
  in the younger phase of life will do
• 59:42
  everything will trade time for money.
• 59:45
  And I shared this a week or two ago and I didn't make this up.
• 59:48
  This came from someone else.
• 59:49
  But we'll trade all of our time for money.
• 59:53
  But at the end of your life,
• 59:56
  you'll trade all of your money for time.
• 59:59
  And navigating that as a business owner can be tough.
• 1:00:02
  And like you mentioned, Scott, we start this business
• 1:00:05
  and we have goals of family and we have personal goals in mind,
• 1:00:10
  but we let our left brain kid ourself to say,
• 1:00:15
  just push through, we'll just go 80 hours now.
• 1:00:17
  So you don't have to go 80 hours then.
• 1:00:20
  But when you get to then
• 1:00:23
  that 80 hours will not be worth it.
• 1:00:26
  You will wish that you didn't go 80 hours because you can't get back in time.
• 1:00:31
  You might have the money then, but it will mean nothing to you
• 1:00:34
  because your kids are grown
• 1:00:35
  and they forgot that you missed their basketball game or football game
• 1:00:38
  or their concert or their recital, or you just weren't at home.
• 1:00:43
  So that is something that I I'm convicted with.
• 1:00:47
  Scott.
• 1:00:48
  That is something that I think it's important for all of us
• 1:00:52
  truly to consider
• 1:00:55
  and to keep at the top of our mind
• 1:00:56
  100%.
• 1:00:57
  As a fellow dad with both of you that does have a teenager.
• 1:01:01
  My oldest is 19.
• 1:01:03
  He's already moved out of the house, man.
• 1:01:05
  I'm going back to the time that I was manager of a radio station.
• 1:01:08
  I was working 70 hours a week and looking back at that,
• 1:01:12
  it was the worst time of my marriage.
• 1:01:14
  It was the hardest time with my oldest,
• 1:01:17
  you know, just for the behavioral issues, just full transparency here, guys,
• 1:01:23
  because I was the manager, right?
• 1:01:25
  I owned I didn't own the station, but I owned the station.
• 1:01:29
  That was my responsibility.
• 1:01:30
  And I made that my priority,
• 1:01:33
  thinking that it all rode on me.
• 1:01:36
  And as owners of businesses, we can be tempted
• 1:01:40
  to feel that pressure and feel that responsibility.
• 1:01:44
  But guys, I'm telling you, like Scott said,
• 1:01:46
  like Todd just said, that that 70 hours,
• 1:01:50
  you might gain it for the business, but you lost it with your kid
• 1:01:55
  and you don't you don't ever get that back.
• 1:01:57
  Now you can try and rectify that in the future
• 1:02:00
  and spend more time, but you can never go backwards.
• 1:02:04
  So that's why we say take a breath.
• 1:02:06
  You know, that's what Spiro means.
• 1:02:07
  Is breath.
• 1:02:09
  Yeah, we want to be successful.
• 1:02:10
  We want to grow our businesses. We have a responsibility to do that.
• 1:02:13
  But there is a balance and and it is possible.
• 1:02:17
  So yeah. Scott, thank you.
• 1:02:19
  Thank for sharing that.
• 1:02:20
  Appreciate taht
• 1:02:21
  Every time.
• 1:02:22
  I hear that. Just take a breath, man.
• 1:02:23
  It just hits me so hard.
• 1:02:25
  our guest, Scott Golmic.
• 1:02:26
  He's the owner of The Real Estateographers There I got it.
• 1:02:30
  Presenter at the REPP 2024 conference,
• 1:02:32
  gave a presentation and starting from $0 to hiring three photographers.
• 1:02:36
  Scott, thank you so much.
• 1:02:37
  Making time this week to join us here on the podcast and sharing your wisdom.
• 1:02:41
  Thanks so much for having me on.
• 1:02:42
  Scott if anyone wants to get a hold of you, they can follow you.
• 1:02:45
  Where can they find you at.
• 1:02:47
  Yeah. Easiest way is on Instagram.
• 1:02:50
  Feel free to send me a message if you want to reach out and do that.
• 1:02:53
  It's @TheRealEstateographers
• 1:02:55
  It's a little drone pin so you could see it on there.
• 1:02:58
  Also have a personal just Scott Golmic Instagram.
• 1:03:01
  And so that's very the easiest way to connect
• 1:03:02
  and since the REPP conference there's been some really cool conversations
• 1:03:06
  with photographers around the country, so please feel free to reach out.
• 1:03:09
  All right.
• 1:03:10
  Well, we're closing down to the end of 2025,
• 1:03:14
  coming up on Christmas here and the New Year's.
• 1:03:17
  And we've got one more, I believe, one more podcast
• 1:03:20
  going to do for 2025.
• 1:03:23
  Shannon Landers from our team is going to be on with me next next week.
• 1:03:27
  I believe it is.
• 1:03:28
  Todd And we're going to be talking about the first quarter forecast for 2025.
• 1:03:34
  Shannon's got some great insights, so make sure you
• 1:03:36
  you catch that that podcast episode and we just to say
• 1:03:40
  from the entire Spiro team guys we appreciate you
• 1:03:43
  we are privileged to be in this this real estate photographer
• 1:03:47
  community with you and thank you for watching and listening you know
• 1:03:50
  here in 2024, it's just been a blast getting to know everybody.
• 1:03:54
  Todd, any any thoughts from you?
• 1:03:56
  Tune in next week.
• 1:03:56
  Shannon is a wealth of knowledge
• 1:03:58
  Shannon joined the team almost just over six months ago.
• 1:04:01
  I believe her almost six months ago.
• 1:04:03
  Shannon helped me grow and scale Wow.
• 1:04:05
  Shannon has an incredible wealth of knowledge of the real estate industry.
• 1:04:09
  She's recruited agents.
• 1:04:11
  She built our sales and marketing program at Wow.
• 1:04:15
  She then ran real estate offices.
• 1:04:17
  She is a realtor
• 1:04:19
  so she has a ton of knowledge coming up here, so please tune into that,
• 1:04:23
  you guys, if you haven't met her yet, you'll love her.
• 1:04:26
  A ton of information there and just great insight
• 1:04:29
  and sorry, I won't I won't be joining you.
• 1:04:31
  I'm taking my kids to go see Christmas lights.
• 1:04:33
  - good for you - I’ll send you all picture
• 1:04:35
  priorities
• 1:04:36
  That's awesome.
• 1:04:38
  All right.
• 1:04:38
  Well, guys, again, thank you so much.
• 1:04:40
  It's been a great week. Scott, again, thank you for joining us.
• 1:04:43
  - We appreciate you man - Thank you, Scott.
• 1:04:45
  Thanks, guys. Merry Christmas.
• 1:04:46
  Yeah, Merry Christmas.
• 1:04:47
  All right, guys, make sure you take time this week.
• 1:04:49
  Be thankful for the blessings in your life.
• 1:04:53
  And like we've talked about a couple of times, this episode,
• 1:04:55
  make sure you carve out some time to take a breath.
• 1:04:57
  You have a great week. Take care.
• 1:04:59
  Thank you for joining us for the Spiro podcast,
• 1:05:02
  managing your real estate photography and videography Business.
• 1:05:05
  This is a production of Spiro and wow video tours.
• 1:05:09
  You can find out more about Spiro
• 1:05:11
  is real estate, media, business management software at our Web site.
• 1:05:15
  Spiro.media.