Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Body parts sealed in plastic bags, stored in freezer while look-a-like allegedly steals identity. What happened to Shannon Graves?

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Body parts sealed in plastic bags, stored in freezer while look-a-like allegedly steals identity. What happened to Shannon Graves? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: We're talking about the disappearance of a gorgeous, young, diminutive woman,
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Shannon Graves, who goes missing. Yet neighbor series driving by
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: in her car with her dog. So how she missing? Well,
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: I don't know the answer to that yet, but I
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: do know this, A body turns up in a friend's freezer.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A twenty eight year old
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: young woman goes missing. What happened to Shannon? I'm Nancy Grace.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Take a listen to Crime Onlines, John Limley. Shannon Graves
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: had not been seen for months. This is what her
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: family told police when they followed missing persons report in
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: June twenty seventeen. Her half sister, Debbie DePaul, told reporters
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: that graves friends last saw her in February, but she
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: also said it wasn't unusual for Shannon to go for
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: some time without talking with her family. Now, what was
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: unusual for the twenty eight year old was to leave
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: home without her car, her dog, and her phone. All
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: three were left behind, something to keep in mind. De
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: Paul described the woman as pretty petite. She was rather small,
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: but with a big personality, and when it comes to
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: her size, she was exactly right when she went missing.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: Graves was four foot eleven and she weighed about ninety
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: eight pounds. Is this all a big hoax? Because after
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: she's reported missing, she's seen driving her car, her credit
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: card is ye, she's even walking her dog. But yet
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: she's seemingly has vanished from the lives of everyone. Sheet
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: knows what is happening to Shannon Again, thank you for
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: being with us here at Fox Nation and Series one
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: eleven with me an all star panel. Former felony prosecutor
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: now defense attorney DARYLD Cohen joining me from the Atlanta
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: Jurisdiction Psychoanalyst to the Stars, doctor Bethany Marshall joining me
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: from La Stephen Lampley, detective and author Outside Your Door
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: at Stephen Lampley dot com. Former Chief medical Examiner for
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: the entire State of Georgia, doctor Chris Sperry, and lead
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: news anchor WDBO Morning Ray Kiputo, Ray, I want to
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: talk about first, Shannon Gray. She's just twenty eight years old,
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: but she's barely five feet tall. She only weighs, you know,
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: ninety one hundred pounds. She's a tiny tiny, diminutive woman.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: Just beautiful. I might add, she looks like somebody on TV.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to figure out who that is. She looks
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: like anyway, gorgeous, and she's reported missing. Tell me about
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: who reported her missing and how they noticed she was missing. Well, Nancy,
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: it wasn't uncommon, according to family members, for Shannon to
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: go long periods of time without contacting family members. So
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: when she first kind of people noticed that she wasn't around,
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: it wasn't like, you know, somebody you see every day
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: where you immediately notice that. She was last seen on
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: Christmas Day in twenty sixteen, and then her sister said
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: she saw her a couple months later in mid Sebruary.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: But again it's kind of abnormal. You'd think when somebody
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: goes missing in a matter of days, people notice, but
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: it wasn't like that with Shannon. So she was last
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: seeing that February by her sister. You know, that's how
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: people fall through the cracks, Doctor Bethany Marshall, because I've
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: told to this story my mom. This is when you
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: still got charged for a long distance call. My mom worked,
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: you know, thirty forty minutes from her home and the
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: moment she got to work. They had what was called
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: a Watts line at the times, an eight hundred number,
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: so the moment she got there, she would get there
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: at seven o'clock in the morning. Wherever I was in
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: the world, she'd call me to make sure I was up,
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: getting ready to go to court, or had already left.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: She would call me immediately the moment she got there,
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: and we were in touch every day, and typically on
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: my way home from work, I'd call my dad. My
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: mom talked to them on the way home, so that
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: was a regular routine. She did not have that routine,
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: so the family after they see her in February, didn't
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: realize she was missing for a period of months. Bethany Nancy,
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: this is so unusual because all of the cases we
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: cover think about it. Usually it's co workers, Like with
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: your mom, the co workers say, hey, the employee has
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: not shown up for work, or the person vanishes on
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: social media they stopped posting on Instagram or Facebook, or
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: the most important call of the day to your mother. Right,
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: it's always the mothers who know these young women. Shannon
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: Graves was what twenty seven, twenty eight years old. When
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: I was that age, I called my mother all the time.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: I would never have been able to go two or
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: three days without talking to a family member. So, you know,
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: the positive side was that she was a pretty spirit.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: She loved to drive around with her dog and everything.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: The negative side is that she seems to be either
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: an introvert or isolated, having a very low need for
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: contact with family members. And as you know, Nancy and
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: you're talking about, that really put her at risk. It
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: really did. You know what I'm thinking about, how she
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: could have gone period of months with no one realizing
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: she was gone. Maybe she had mentioned a vacation. Maybe
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: she went on a vacation nobody knew, but we don't
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: know how many days had really passed that Shannon had
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: actually been missing. The other thing it points to would
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: be a possible DV situation domestic violence. I was thinking,
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: what young woman falls out of contact with everybody in
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: their life, maybe if she had a very controlling boyfriend.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: I don't know much about the boyfriend, and this piece, well,
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: we don't know anything at all about domestic abuse. But
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: what we do know is that she seemingly dropped off
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: the face of the earth. But then there were conflicting
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: reports neighbors and others saw her driving her car, which
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: we heard was abandoned. They see her with her dog,
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: which we were told was left alone back at the apartment.
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: Her credit cards, her ATMs were used to suggest that
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: she was still alive and not missing at all. Is
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: Bethany Wright? Is she hiding out from some lover she
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: wants to get away from? To see her walking her
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: dog out in the open, to see her drive by
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: in her car with her dog in the car. That
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: seemed to dispel police's fears because the suggestions that she
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: was missing or even dead, that didn't jive with the
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: fact that she's spotted in her own car in her
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: own neighborhood with her dog. Now the sister, the half
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: sister tells us she was missing, her dog was left behind,
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: her other objects like pocketbook and so forth, all left behind.
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: She was the only one missing, Yet neighbors have spotted
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: her in the neighborhood in her car. That doesn't fit together.
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: So there you have the dichotomy. Year Cohen. Fancy, do
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: they really see her drive by or did they see
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: her car and they assume that she's the one driving it.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: Did they see her drive by? Is there a dog
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: in the car, they see the dog, they once again
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: assume as her Is that really what happened? Yes, it's
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: her dog and her car. Time Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys,
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: we're talking about the mysterious disappearance of a young woman
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: or youngstown. Then there seems to be a break in
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: the case. Take a listen to Janet Rogers WF m J.
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: They have an autistic son. They were going to She
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: was going to make spaghetti, and so she opened the
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: freezer lock the three screws that took the pad lock
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: off so she could open it. And when she looked inside,
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: she saw garbage bags and a garbage bag and a pail,
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: and she basically thought something was very wrong. She screwed
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: it back on, and when her husband came home, she said,
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: something is really wrong. I was going to make spaghetti
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: for our son. He's autistic. Guinea loves spaghetti, and she
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: was going to get some meat and replace it. And
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: he said it took him about five minutes before he
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: could even go look because then suddenly he started fearing
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: the worst because he did know Shannon Graves. She had
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: spent time at the home. He thought she was a
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: very polite, very nice woman. And was just terrified because
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: suddenly things started adding up she had been missing. Okay,
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: that's really weird, and I'll tell you why. Just night
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: before last, I see something in the freezer. I'm looking
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: for ice cream for John David, of course, and I
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: see something wrapped in tinfoil. I have no idea what
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: it is. It's not marked, so I took it out
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: and thought it out. It was this giant thing of meatloaf.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: My mom had made god Elino's win and had bundled
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: in his huge thing of tinfoil and put it in
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: a plastic bag. You know, I never once thought, Wow,
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: could that be so and So's missing foot? Could I
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: never would dawn on me that an unknown or unidentifiable
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: frozen object could be a body part. But this guy says,
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: the first thing he thought was, oh, that's Shannon. That's
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: Shannon in my freezer. See, those two things do not
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: fit together for me. Plus, how do you explain neighbors
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: seeing her driving around the neighborhood in her car with
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: her a dog. So this mom says she wanted to
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: make spaghetti for her son, goes down, opens the freezer
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: and says garbage bags and the husband immediately goes, oh, yeah,
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: I bet that's the missing woman. Shannon, Hmmm. Take a
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: listen to more Janet Rogers wf m J. When he
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: finally got up the courage to go look in the freezer,
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: he saw the garbage bags. He basically tried to open it.
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: It was frozen solid and he said that he tried
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: and that didn't work. So he went and he got
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: you know, he got a knife and he cut one
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: bag and he said it was a heavy duty contractor's bag.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: And then he got to another layer and there was
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: another bag, and then then it is when the smell
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: hit him and then basically he cut open another bag
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: and that's when he saw the foot and leg and
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: they both screamed. They went and called nine and one.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: They have been crying when I spoke with them on Sunday,
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: a day after they found that body. I'm called nine
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: O one immediately Wow. So the husband, ken Eshan Paul,
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: starts digging through garbage bags and the freezer must have
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: been one of those deep freezers that you lift up
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: like a trunk, and realizes that it is in fact
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: a human body. Two former chief medical examiner for the
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: entire state of Georgia, doctor Chris Sperry, who can withstand
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: practically anything on cross examine, cross examination, I can attest
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: to that, doctor Sperry. What effect does freezing have on
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: a body? And I'm very curious in this case why
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: the killer didn't just dispose of the body parts. Why
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: put them in a freezer where they can be discovered later.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: So that's a whole other canorms. But what effect does
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: freezing have on the body. I'm curious because this witness
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: ken eschen Boss says he opened the bags, the body
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: was frozen, yet the stench of decomposition hit him. Witten,
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: freezing get rid of that smell. No, freezing will not
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: do that. If a body is fresh, whether it's stop
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: right there. Let me just drink that in. If a
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: body is fresh fresh, never heard of describe like that,
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: But okay, I'll take that away. If a person has
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: recently died, and that's nice. There is that's more palatable.
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: And then the body is put into a freezer, whether
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: it's then, whether it's dismembered or intact. As long as
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: the time between death and the freezing is fairly short
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: a few hours, then there will be no odor. Once
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: the parts are discovered and the bags are open. However,
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: if a body begins to decompose and is then frozen
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: or dismembered and then frozen, the parts are frozen, the
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: decomposition odors will not go away at all. Freezing does
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: not eliminate decomposition, even though when the body parts were discovered,
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: they clearly they clearly had been a significant decomposition before
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: the dismembered parts were put into the freezer, and that
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: odor will stay there whether it's a month or a year,
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: or no matter how long. So what does that tell you? Forensically,
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: Doctor Chris Berry? Tell me the when when the person
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: was murdered, there was a period of time, probably at
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: least a day at room temperature, and perhaps you've been
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: as long as three, four or five days. I mean,
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: we could tell more about looking at the portions of
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: the body, looking at the tissues, but it tells me
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: that enough time had passed between the when the person
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: died and then was dismembered and frozen that decomposition had
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: already set in. So that's you know that that definitely
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: shows right there, there's an interval between the time of
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: death and then the hiding of the body parts of
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: the freezer. So bottom line, the killer left her body
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: lying around, as you said, at room temperature. You do know,
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: doctor Sperry, you refer to human bodies as if they're
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: I don't know, pro do you just want to make
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: you aware of that at the fresh well, it's bad, okay?
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: Did you say it's work, just work? Did you when
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: you were a little boy, doctor Sperry, what did you
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: want to be when you grew up? Because I'm just curious.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: I wanted to be a doctor from the age of four.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: My mother could attest to that, but I decided to
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: be a forensic pathologist when I was fifteen. I used
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: to ride my bicycle to the medical library or the
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: science library at the University of Kansas and just walked
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: through the stacks looking for books. And one day I
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: found a book on forensic pathology, which I probably checked
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: out and took home, and I decided that in there
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: that is what I want to do, and my dream
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: came true. I don't really know what to say. Even
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: as a young boy, you dreamed of dead bodies. You know.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: I'm going to let you and doctor Bethany Marshall take
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: up that issue privately, but I'm just trying to get
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: my mind around what you're saying to Daryl, And I
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: was going down the rabbit hole of do we ever
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: stop and hear ourselves describing dead bodies like their produce.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: But I want to talk about the forensics in this case.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: That means that the killer left her just what, lying
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: there for a period of time before doing anything with
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: her body. That suggests to me a real plathora of possibilities.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: Were they so arrogant, so sure they wouldn't get caught,
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: that they could just leave a body sitting there unattended
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: to Nancy. I'm wondering if it was just the opposite
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: that the killer was afraid, because it was obviously he
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: in my view, he had somewhere else to be, and
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: if he wasn't there at or near the time he
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: was supposed to be there, that would send out, oh
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: my gosh, where is he ready, and then later they
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: would tie that back to him. So I think one
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: good theory is that he west where he had to be,
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: and he had to leave the body decompose and then
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: so he could come back to it later and then
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: put it on ice. I think you're right. I think
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: your theory is very very possible. Time Stories with Nancy Grace.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: We're talking about the disappearance of a gorgeous, young, diminutive
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: woman's Shannon Graves, who goes missing. Yet neighbor series driving
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: by in her car with her dog. So how is
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: she missing? Well, I don't know the answer to that yet,
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: but I do know this. A body turns up in
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: a friend's freezer and it looks like a woman's foot.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: They call nine on one. You know, I was trying
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: to figure out who she looked at. It has been
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: bothering me. She looks like a much younger Carrie Fisher
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: with a side pony around the time of the First
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: Star Wars, very very beautiful princess Princess Leiah. That's who
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: she looks like. Anyway, long story short, This body turns
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: up in a freezer. The moment the homeowner opens the freezer,
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: he realizes something's very wrong, thinks it's a body, opens
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: a trash bag and yes, he finds a human foot.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: Now I don't need a medical degree, no offense, doctor
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: Sperry to note this is murder. Take a listen now
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: to Joe Gorman with the Vindicator. And I looked at
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: the Corners Report today to see the Channy Lake on that,
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: because they never really did give a cause of death
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: for her, and the Corners report doesn't say too much.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: It mentions how she was, how what they found was
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: cut up, They found a foot, there are two or
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: three different bags, and there were different body parts. But
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: the corner's ruling said that it was ruled her death
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: as homified by unspecified means. They haven't been mentioned anything
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: about a timeline or anything like that. With a body
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: dismembered in this manner, it may be very, very difficult
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: to get a cod cause of death. And I believe
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: it was Darryll Cohen pointed out earlier. Yes it has
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: to be a guy, not absolutely, but I mean Stephen Lampley,
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: detective author of Outside Your Door, Have you ever seen
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: a female killer that dismembered the body Nancy? I have not,
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: and I won't say that it's never happened. I'm not
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: familiar with and I've never had that experience, to be honest,
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: neither have I. Of course, if it did happen, she
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: was smart enough to get rid of all the evidence
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: and didn't leave it in a freezer. So you know
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: what I keep hearing Ray Kaputo, lead anchor WDBO, I
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: keep hearing about a foot and another foot. Nobody's mentioned
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: a hit. Well, Nancy, it's because they never found it.
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: Parts of her body have never been found. Only that's
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: in pieces, you know, Ray Kaputo, I bet they never
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: found her hands either. I haven't heard that. I don't
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: know that to be true, but it seems to me
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: that the killer was trying to avoid her body being identified. Yeah,
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: I mean that's correct. It seems like great lengths. I mean,
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: first off, anybody that goes through the trouble of freezing
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: a body and cutting up. I mean, if killing somebody
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: wasn't disgusting enough, you have to have quite a stomach
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: to do that. So they did go through great lengths,
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: you know, just by the nature of how she was
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: the parts of her were found. It is quite bizarre. Guys.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: I'm also curious about how this fraser ends up in
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: your basement and you don't know there is a dead
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: body in it. Police began backtracking. They look at everyone
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: that thinks they've seen Shannon Graves alive in the recent past,
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: and as Daryl Cohen alluded in the very beginning of
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: this murder mystery? Was that really Shannon Graves? Was that
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: Shannon Graves that we see go by in her car?
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: I want to go to doctor Chris Sperry, Doctor Sperry.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: Without a head and without hands, How can a body
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: be identified? Well, if you're lucky enough to find, say
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: tattoos or significant scars on the body, those can be
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: unique identifying marks, especially if a tattoo has a name
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: or is very unique. Now lots of people have all
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: kinds of surgical scars that you know, at least it
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: may give some idea or or you know, if you
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: know that a missing person had, say a hysterectomy, and
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: the autopsy shows that there's no uterus or Philippian tube,
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: no female organs, well at least that's a start. But honestly,
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: at this day and age, DNA that that is how
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: the vast majority of identifications are accomplished today. In situations
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: like where we have here, where the head is missing
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: and perhaps the hands also, there's still a ton of
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: DNA even with the decomposition state of the tissues. If necessary,
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: we can take DNA from the bone marrow and still
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: identify someone. DNA from the bone marrow you don't want
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: to circle back to it. Daryl Cohen, the former prosecutor
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: now defense attorney. The Atlanta jurisdiction set earlier because these
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: people were sure they had seen Shannon Grace. So if
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: it's not her driving her car, and her dog, and
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: her credit cards and her at even her clothes, then
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: what is there a mysterious evil twin. She does not
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: have a twin, So is there a doppel gager? What
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: led you to say that? Daryl Cohen? Yancy? Because in
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: all the years I've prosecuted, and in all the years
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: I've defended the least the least person, the people who
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: absolutely identify the person or persons are are not very reliable.
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: I'm not you and the bad eyewitness again. You know
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: what so many defense attorneys have whined the eyewitness didn't
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: see what they saw. We actually it's actually in the
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: law now and the statute the case law that says
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: with eyewitnesses, you need to and this is routine sop.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: When I put up an eyewitness, what time of the
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: day was it, do you wear glasses? Was it? Well?
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: Let how far away were you? Was your view obstructed?
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: Where the influence of drugs or alcohol at the time,
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: there's actually a litany that you put your eyewitness through
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: because of people just like Daryl Cohen that would love
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: to tell a jury the eyewitness didn't see what they saw.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: But in this case, sadly is Daryl Cohen absolutely correct.
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: Oh hold on, I'm not going to let him in
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: because he's gonna gloat. Let me go to doctor Bethany Marshall.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: Just a moment, Doctor Bethany. This woman her feet and
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: other parts of her body in garbage bags and a freezer.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: Who in the world would think of wearing her clothes,
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: using your ATM and credit card, taking her dog out,
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: driving her car, even wearing her hats? Long story short,
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: What kind of mind would take over the clothing and
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: the life to be an apost for a dead girl?
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: Another jealous woman, another woman who wants her life, another
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: woman who envies her nancy. This reminds me a little
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: of these crimes where a woman wants to become pregnant,
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: gets pseudocyesis, which is a false pregnancy, find the pregnant woman,
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: kidnaps her and cuts the baby out of the pregnant
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: mom's belly. They want what the other person has, Who
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: wanted what Shannon Graves had, was there somebody who was
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: befriending her, was sending her gifts, soliciting contact with her,
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: trying to cozy up to her family or her boyfriends,
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: or to her place of employment. I bet there was
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: some woman somewhere who was obsessed with her, and I
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: would try to follow the clues in that direction. But
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: to the extent that you would wear a dead woman's
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: clothes and walk her dog for Pete's sake, Bethany, Well, Hey,
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: if you're going to cut a baby out of a
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: pregnant mom, you start with the babycat out of a
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: pregnant mom. That has nothing to do with this that
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: we know of yet. But why would you wear the
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: dead woman's clothes? You know? I think why you chop
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: her up in bens and they go, oh, I think
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: I'll try on her Max. I mean, you know, it's
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: really like, um, I'm digging her hat. That's a no.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: Who was it where the head of the fan club
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: killed the star? Was it? Selena? Selena? So? Hello? Okay?
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: So she gained proximity to this star. She became her
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: biggest fan. She learned everything about her, her comings, her
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: goings for bank accounts, you know, she infiltrated her fan club,
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: became the head of it. But she didn't want to
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: be close to her. She wanted to be her. So
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: whoever did this wanted to be Shannon Graves wanted that
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: kind of a life. And I bet it was a
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: weak individual who did not know how to build a
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: life of her own. She had to steal a life,
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: she had to take it from somebody else. Did Shannon
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: Graves have a boyfriend? I don't know. Was this this
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: person wanting other aspects of Shannon's life? Did she have Shannon? Yes,
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: Arthur Novoa had a boyfriend. Hey, doctor Bethany Marshall getting
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: into the psyche of someone that could take part in
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: a brutal murder and dismemberment of this young woman, gorgeous,
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: twenty eight year old Shannon Gray. She's about four eight
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: four nine, she weighs about ninety pounds, just a little
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: whisp of a woman, but with a big personality and
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: then suddenly assume her identity, live her life. Take a
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: listen now to what we learned from Ken Shinbach. Mean
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: wife just screaming came up and I went to the
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: friend Steths. Take a listen, to de Wi KB and
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: TV stan Bonnet. The two people in connection with this
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: crime are Artario Novoa and Katrina Layton. Now keep in
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: mind these two have only been charged with abuse of
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: a corpse. They have yet to be charged with the
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: murder in connection with Shannon Graves. We do know that
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: Shannon Graves and Arturo Novoa were at one point boyfriend
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: and girlfriend. They live in an apartment on Mahoning Avenue
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: in Youngstown. That uh once, eventually, uh, Katrina Layton came
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: into the picture and she was seen driving Graves's car,
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: using her cell phone and basically taking the place of
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: Shannon Graves. Dot to Bethany Marshall, You're absolutely correct, and
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: so are you Daryl Cohen. So doctor Bethany Marshall. Since
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: Darrel Cohen has in fact confessed he's just a JD,
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: not a psychoanalyst like you, let me go to you
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: to explain the thinking. What is going on in this
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: woman's mind that she takes over the identity of Shannon
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: Gray's after taking part obviously taking parton murdering her. Well,
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: didn't we see this in the Dulos murder Jennifer Dulos
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: that her husband recruited another woman to help dispose of
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: the body. This is not an uncommon story, sadly, but
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: I don't remember the girlfriend, Nan Dulos wearing Jennifer's cloth.
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: This is a good point, you know, Nana. Still yes.
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: The psychology is that the boy Samantha Grave's boyfriend begins
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: to devalue and to degrade her to the new girlfriend
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: to put her down to tell Stor. He begins to
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: build a narrative that Shannon Graves doesn't really deserve the
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: life he's quote unquote air quote given her. She doesn't
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: deserve that beautiful car she drives around. She doesn't deserve
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: that loving dog. She doesn't deserve the money and the
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: bank accounts because he, after all, has provided all of
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: it to her. And why is that h taking things
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: that are not hers to take. He builds the narrative
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: with the new lover and the new girlfriend, who buys
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: into it, and begins to develop a paranoid relationship with
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: Samantha and with society that he's like God and she'll
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: only bloom if she's planted in his garden. Pretty soon
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: they begin to conspire to get rid of Samantha and
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: to take over her life because they have already in
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: a sense, destroyed the goodness of her personality in their minds,
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: and by the time they kill her, they chop her up,
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: they put her in a freezer. They have completely rationalized
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: that her belongings belong to them. They're not hers, they're theirs.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: It's hetty theft at a very grand, elaborate level. Crime
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace, guys were talking about the mysterious
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: disappearance of a young woman or Youngstown. You know what's interesting,
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: Stephen Lampley, Daryl Cohen, we all three agree that we've
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: never seen a female killer dismember a body. Yeah, but
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: isn't it true? Ray Caputo w DBO that it was Layton,
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: thirty six year old Katrina Layton that went and bought
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: the freezer and bought sulfuric acid. Oh yeah, Nancy, she
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: was a willing participant. She also helped move the body too.
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: But you know, she was not just on the sidelines
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: of all this, and you know that a lot of
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: that came out when she went to trial. But yeah,
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: I mean, she bought sulfuric acid, she bought the freezer,
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: she helped move the body, She knew what she was
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: doing so in your mind, Stephen Lampley, detective author of
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: Outside Your Door. She's in the thick of it. She
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: may very well have taken part in dismembering the body.
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: She's the one that buys the freezer. She's the one
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: that buys the sulfuric acid. She's in the thick of it. Nancy,
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: she is, and she's well involved. And I mean she's
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: like you said, she bought the freezer. Obviously round I
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: would think that she helped even in the dismembering. That's
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: my initial thought. But yeah, she is so involved in
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: this murder. You know too, Doctor Bethany Marshall. On my keychain,
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: I have you know you can do those little you
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: can get those little plastic frames. I know I've got
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: at least five of the twins and all of us
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: together at different spots. Here we are at the beach,
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: eating at Crabby Joe's. Here we are at NASA part
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: anything like we're floating in space. Listen to this. Did
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: you know the lover Arthur Nevoa kept the key to
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: the padlock on his keychain. Now, when they moved out
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: of the apartment, they moved the freezer with the dead
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: body and the freezer to these friends, the Eshenbergs. But
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: he kept it and every time he had to crank
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: his car unlock his house, he had to see that
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: padlock and think, Shannon Grays, my lover, She's dismembered in
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: the freezer. How do you do that every day? Look
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: right at it on your keychain, Nancy. I always say,
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: as in life, so in death, meaning he controlled her
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: in life, he controlled her in death. He's a control freak,
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: and so is his girlfriend. Controlling to the point of
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: being homicidal, wanting to complete control over the body. I think, Nancy,
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: that something happened where they conspired to kill her, but
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: they were not far sighted enough to know what to
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: do with the body, and so it lay there for
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: several days while they contemplated their next move. It takes
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: an enormous amount of energy to dismember a body, you know,
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: you can ask mister Sperry, doctor Sperry, blood all over
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: the place. I mean, it's a herculean task. They finally
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: put her in the freezer, They secrete the freezer, or
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: they give it to a friend. He has the key
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: to the padlock. He imagines that he still has control
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: over her, that she's his, that no one would ever
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: get in that freezer because he and only he has
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: the key. And that's what abusers think. They think that
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: they are the sole person in charge of that other
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: person's life. I think it's that simple psychology in this case.
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: Is it true, Ray Caputo, that Novoa and listed other
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: people to help him dispose of the body? Yeah, Nancy,
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: I wish I could say that that Latent and Novola
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: were the only two people involved. But he had another friend,
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: Andrew Herman, who apparently helped him mutilate the body and then,
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: to make matters worse, Andrew Herman was married at the
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: time and he had a wife who helped out as well,
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: moving in disposing things. So it wasn't just these two
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: deprived individuals. There were a couple more involved. And I
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: think that's the really sick part is that you know,
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: you think that one person would come to their senses,
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: but all four of them took part in this. I mean,
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: Daryll Cohen, I've wanted us a million times. When you
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: have a group of defendants to take part in a murder.
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: Man the first time somebody says, hey, do you want
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: to help me dismember body. You'd say nothing to me
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: but elbows, intel hole, because I'd be running straight to
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: call police, not here, and these people went, oh sure,
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: what is that? It seems to me every party that
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: these people have nothing on their mind but to help
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: their buddy. And this is really cool. When I'll tell
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: you what, Nancy, when it's time to roll over one
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: of those people. Besides, I am not guilty, I am
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: going to tell because I don't want prison the rest
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: of my lord. You know, the family is left wondering.
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: Take a listen to to w KB and Stan at Beune.
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: There were lots of hugs around the gazebo at Austin
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: Town Township Park is. The family of Shannon Graves held
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: an evening to remember her. It was organized by her sister,
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: Debbie DePaul. Shannon was her own little spirit, She was
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: her free spirits. One of Shannon's good friends was John Scarrata.
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: She was awesome. She was a great person, always full
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: energy on top of everything that she did, like really focused.
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: But she has a lot of friends. You could tell
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: by the people that are coming here. Shannon graves father,
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: Ronnie DePaul, also showed up and said he's handling it
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: because he has to, but without all the standards. But
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: she ever could have done to add these two people
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: do what he did to her. Elodi got the bury
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: part of a buttah. Just everything around her being missing
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: wasn't right. So we kind of didn't know the specifics
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: or the gruesomeness of it, but figured pretty much something
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: like that had happened forty eight to life. But Shannon's
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: family still still distraught over the light treatment, latent and
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: others got We wait as justice un falls. Nancy Grace
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: Crime Story signing off good Bye Friend,