Latest / 22 Panels - A Comic Book Podcast / With Great Power #339... 22 Panels with Jim Terry

Transcript

With Great Power #339... 22 Panels with Jim Terry · 22 Panels - A Comic Book Podcast

• 0:01
  Tad Eggleston: Good afternoon, everybody. Welcome back to 22 Panels. My guest, again, I think the third time you've come. At least the second time. No, at least the third time, maybe the fourth time. I forget if we ever managed to get together for Deathstalker.
• 0:15
  Tad Eggleston: I know you didn't come with Tim Seeley, but I forget if you came back on your own. But that all doesn't matter. It's Jim Terry, back on 22 Panels, and always a blast to talk to him.
• 0:27
  Tad Eggleston: This time we'll talk some comics, but we get to talk… you made a movie.
• 0:32
  Tad Eggleston: Which is, like, just super cool. So, like…
• 0:37
  Tad Eggleston: I know my thoughts on the movie, but I'm gonna let you sell it first.
• 0:41
  Jim Terry: Okay. Hey, I have a question I should have asked you before. Is this video compatible, too? Can people see me?
• 0:48
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, right… right now, I just published the audio. If you want me to publish the video, I can.
• 0:53
  Jim Terry: No, no, no, I'm okay, that means I don't have to put on clothes, it's okay, it's fine.
• 0:59
  Tad Eggleston: Okay. For the record, Jim is wearing a shirt.
• 1:06
  Jim Terry: Okay, so, yeah, I made a movie,
• 1:11
  Jim Terry: It's a feature-length film, it's called Shang.
• 1:14
  Jim Terry: It's ridiculous, it's, we made it on nothing, and
• 1:21
  Jim Terry: And I'm exhausted, but it was,
• 1:24
  Jim Terry: it was an awesome time baking it, and that was a whole thing, you know? As I've said in the past.
• 1:31
  Jim Terry: You know, not to get into anything deep, but, you know, things have kind of sucked here and there.
• 1:39
  Jim Terry: And I looked… I was…
• 1:41
  Tad Eggleston: What?
• 1:42
  Tad Eggleston: In the United States, now?
• 1:46
  Jim Terry: Well, you're talking to an Indigenous man, so I have.
• 1:49
  Tad Eggleston: I know.
• 1:49
  Jim Terry: point on that, you know, but…
• 1:52
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, you mean forever?
• 1:54
  Jim Terry: Yeah, yeah, oh, hey.
• 1:57
  Tad Eggleston: Okay.
• 2:00
  Jim Terry: I was doing comics, and I was starting to get burned out, and I realized that I was isolating a lot.
• 2:07
  Jim Terry: And, I needed to be with my friends, so I started…
• 2:13
  Jim Terry: Compiling some ideas and getting friends together and shooting scenes here and there based around this idea.
• 2:20
  Jim Terry: And just letting it kind of grow into something.
• 2:24
  Jim Terry: And mainly, it was… To be with community.
• 2:29
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 2:30
  Jim Terry: be with my buddies, and get people together, and make something fun, and be creative with them, so, you know, we can look back on this shitty year. So, can I swear?
• 2:42
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, yeah.
• 2:43
  Jim Terry: Yeah, so we can look back on this year and be like, okay, well, we made something
• 2:48
  Jim Terry: we made something. Cool. We didn't just let it all just kind of beat us down. We went out there, and we made something fun, and hopefully put some smiles on some people's faces, because, you know, hopefully you can feel the community in this movie.
• 3:05
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, absolutely.
• 3:07
  Jim Terry: Yeah, so it was heavily improvised.
• 3:09
  Jim Terry: In the beginning, it was mostly improvised.
• 3:13
  Jim Terry: And then about halfway through, I was like, oh, I better start tying this up. So, I started writing some stuff, so the second half is… is, a little tighter, but,
• 3:25
  Jim Terry: Yeah, and we made it for peanuts, you know? We'll shoot at this person's house, we'll steal some outside footage, and gorilla-style it, and
• 3:35
  Jim Terry: And just… make it in spite of everything. And,
• 3:41
  Jim Terry: And just with that idea of being completely free and letting creativity sort of dominate the vibe of it.
• 3:48
  Jim Terry: Not trying to make it anything that it couldn't be. I'm just letting it exist, and… Strictly…
• 3:55
  Tad Eggleston: And that's…
• 3:56
  Tad Eggleston: That… that to me is one of the greatest beauties of the movie, is that it… it knows what it is. It's… it's not try… no, it, like…
• 4:07
  Tad Eggleston: We talk a lot about great movies, we talk a lot about popcorn movies, movies that are so bad that they're good, you know, that sort of thing, and it's hard to categorize this movie, because I think some people would put it in the so bad that it's good category. I don't quite agree with that, because.
• 4:22
  Jim Terry: Who are these people?
• 4:24
  Tad Eggleston: Well, I don't agree with that, because I think, like, it's more that it understands its limitations and laughs at those while leaning into its strengths.
• 4:37
  Jim Terry: No.
• 4:38
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, the first thing I noticed was, was like, oh, we don't have hardcore choreography and, and, and, and,
• 4:47
  Tad Eggleston: Keanu Reeves to do… to do martial arts, so we're gonna make up for it with sound effects, and it's awesome.
• 4:54
  Jim Terry: Yeah, there are no, there are no wide-angle, uninterrupted 3-minute fight scenes in this.
• 5:03
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 5:03
  Jim Terry: Or they would be the most boring ones you've ever seen. So, yeah, a lot of editing tricks, and…
• 5:11
  Jim Terry: sound effects.
• 5:12
  Tad Eggleston: Excuse me.
• 5:14
  Jim Terry: Never mind.
• 5:14
  Tad Eggleston: I think what my son and I agreed on as our personal tagline for it after we saw it at the Goodman was, if El Mariachi and Clerks had a baby, or a demon baby, its name would be Shank.
• 5:30
  Jim Terry: Well, you know, I saw those two movies the same weekend.
• 5:35
  Tad Eggleston: Believe you.
• 5:36
  Jim Terry: Yeah, Clerks and El Piachi and Hard-Boiled. I saw those three.
• 5:40
  Tad Eggleston: Okay.
• 5:41
  Jim Terry: And the same weekend, at a film fest in Kansas City, Kansas, And, and talk about… like,
• 5:50
  Jim Terry: A whole new world opening up.
• 5:52
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 5:53
  Tad Eggleston: I was about to say, did the original Shank trailer come the next weekend? Because, I mean, it feels like… feels like a lot of synergy there.
• 6:02
  Tad Eggleston: Well…
• 6:03
  Jim Terry: Yeah, I would probably say it… it… it's genuinely more… more mariachi than clerks.
• 6:10
  Jim Terry: Yeah. It's not super wordy.
• 6:14
  Tad Eggleston: No, but the wordy is humorous.
• 6:17
  Tad Eggleston: And the cast is friends.
• 6:21
  Jim Terry: Yeah, a thousand percent would add.
• 6:23
  Jim Terry: It's.
• 6:24
  Tad Eggleston: rank.
• 6:25
  Jim Terry: Everybody knows each other, and you can probably…
• 6:28
  Jim Terry: Feel that sort of, casual acquaintancy.
• 6:33
  Jim Terry: underneath the surface of everything, you know, we're all just.
• 6:35
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 6:37
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, I mean, it feels like you're trying to make each other laugh, and…
• 6:41
  Jim Terry: That's true.
• 6:42
  Tad Eggleston: In a good way.
• 6:43
  Jim Terry: That's exactly what it is, you know, we're sitting around, and, okay, what's funnier than that? Or, you know, some.
• 6:48
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 6:49
  Jim Terry: ridiculous. Oh, let's put that in there, you know, and I'm fortunate to have a lot of very creative and very funny friends, you know, and.
• 6:59
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 7:00
  Jim Terry: Steve, who plays Shank, I've known him since I was 6 years old, you know, where
• 7:05
  Jim Terry: We're, we're more like brothers, you know, and and he's so different from me.
• 7:11
  Jim Terry: he is such a different human being than I am, you know? And so, we work well in that way, because he's… he's wry and sardonic and, you know, and kind of, unfazed.
• 7:24
  Jim Terry: And I'm the opposite of all those things, you know? I'm all over the place, I'm… and so…
• 7:32
  Tad Eggleston: Channel.
• 7:33
  Jim Terry: channeling those kinds of conflicting energies is… has always been fun, and Steve has been in…
• 7:40
  Jim Terry: the very first movies I made back in the 90s.
• 7:43
  Jim Terry: Early, huh? Yeah.
• 7:46
  Tad Eggleston: So, so you mean, like, the DVD extra stuff that we'll get when we get the Shank Criterion Collection?
• 7:53
  Jim Terry: Criterion finally knocks on my door for the Shank Super Edition. Yeah.
• 7:59
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 7:59
  Jim Terry: We'll throw some of those early films in there.
• 8:06
  Tad Eggleston: I re-read Paper Cuts this morning, and as I was reading Paper Cuts, and thinking of Shank, and then thinking back… and then thinking back to Come Home India, I mean, it seems like you've been…
• 8:20
  Tad Eggleston: On kind of a hell of a journey for the last…
• 8:24
  Tad Eggleston: 5 to 10 years, you know, of rediscovering yourself, deciding what
• 8:32
  Tad Eggleston: what things you want to learn about and know about and represent, and when you just have too much energy. I think, in particular in paper cuts, when it got to the… to the page where it's like.
• 8:42
  Tad Eggleston: I,
• 8:43
  Tad Eggleston: I have to know all of these things, and it's just too hard, and then… then you go to… to the page where it's like, okay, I'm just gonna sit by a tree for a while. I'm like, in some ways, I wonder if, like, Shank was that for you? It's like, I've been doing all of this stuff.
• 9:00
  Tad Eggleston: Now I'm just gonna go laugh for a little while.
• 9:03
  Jim Terry: That's…
• 9:04
  Tad Eggleston: That's something precisely. Something different.
• 9:06
  Jim Terry: Yeah, it's… it's exactly what Shank… Shank is. It's exactly what I hope Shank could be for other people.
• 9:13
  Jim Terry: You know, just… just a fun time, you know, and and just breathe for a little while.
• 9:20
  Jim Terry: And have a laugh, and you know, it's… as I think you said, it's not entirely void of meaning.
• 9:28
  Jim Terry: You know, I…
• 9:29
  Tad Eggleston: No.
• 9:32
  Jim Terry: There are things I'm trying to say in that movie, eventually.
• 9:36
  Jim Terry: But, you know, for the most part, it's… I love trashy movies, you know?
• 9:42
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 9:43
  Jim Terry: this movie was made in the vein of, you know, well, we'll say mariachi, but also, like,
• 9:50
  Jim Terry: Japanese exploitation movies from the early 70s.
• 9:54
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, right.
• 9:55
  Jim Terry: Hong Kong movies from the 80s.
• 9:58
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 9:59
  Jim Terry: From the 70s and 80s, you know, that kind of.
• 10:02
  Jim Terry: Freewheeling, anything can happen. You know, okay, it doesn't look great, but it gets the point across, or, you know, that effect is so bad, but we're just gonna do it anyway, you know? Right. Dragging the,
• 10:17
  Jim Terry: dragging the… the little clown into the… into the weeds on a… on a fishing pot. You know, everybody knows what… how we did it.
• 10:26
  Jim Terry: But.
• 10:27
  Tad Eggleston: Right?
• 10:27
  Jim Terry: You speed it up, and you put a creepy laugh over it, and suddenly it's silly enough.
• 10:35
  Tad Eggleston: works. Bye. Right.
• 10:37
  Jim Terry: Yeah.
• 10:37
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 10:39
  Tad Eggleston: And, like, that's the other thing that I thought, like, it's not exactly… what…
• 10:48
  Tad Eggleston: is laid out in the movie, but… but kinda… kinda… the… the… when I put the three works together, I got, oh, like.
• 10:57
  Tad Eggleston: Kinda like Shank, spends his whole life kind of going after this thing, but also realizing that he didn't actually go after it as hard as he could have, and then goes, oh, wait a minute.
• 11:09
  Tad Eggleston: maybe I should do something else. You know, like, that it seems like the movie kind of represents…
• 11:18
  Tad Eggleston: Your journey right now, where it's like, you've learned a lot of stuff, and you know that you wanna…
• 11:24
  Tad Eggleston: use that stuff, but you also want to be… and I'm playing armchair psychiatrist, so, like, kick me if I say anything rude, offensive, or wrong.
• 11:35
  Tad Eggleston: But you're also finding that balance of, you know, it's great that I've gotten in touch with this side of me, it's great that people now look at me as an Indigenous artist, not just…
• 11:46
  Tad Eggleston: The guy that did the crow.
• 11:50
  Tad Eggleston: But also, I want to make a trashy…
• 11:55
  Tad Eggleston: kung fu demon movie, and have it mean something, but really, like, the huge takeaway is, like.
• 12:07
  Tad Eggleston: Don't take life too seriously, but also have meaning.
• 12:12
  Tad Eggleston: And it feels like those are different things, but so often they're not. So often, people live very serious lives that if you step back even 10 feet, much less 10,000 feet, are all but devoid of meeting.
• 12:26
  Tad Eggleston: You know, whereas you can have a less serious life and still always do the next right thing.
• 12:35
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah. I know.
• 12:35
  Jim Terry: I don't think… I don't think those things can't exist in the same universe, absolutely. You know, that's how I try to be. I mean, if you know me, I have a joke
• 12:45
  Jim Terry: You know, I like to laugh. I love to laugh. I think about serious things, and I… and I,
• 12:53
  Jim Terry: You know, I have my endeavors, and to,
• 12:57
  Jim Terry: furthering my knowledge and trying to do whatever small part I can.
• 13:02
  Jim Terry: For… as far as, like, awareness and activism, and those things are important to me.
• 13:09
  Jim Terry: But it can't be all that I am, or I will… I'll perish, you know?
• 13:16
  Tad Eggleston: Load.
• 13:17
  Jim Terry: I have to have…
• 13:17
  Tad Eggleston: Have a little clown come out of your belly.
• 13:20
  Jim Terry: Yeah.
• 13:20
  Tad Eggleston: I have.
• 13:21
  Jim Terry: You know, it's an indigenous thing, you know, you…
• 13:24
  Tad Eggleston: M.
• 13:25
  Jim Terry: Good,
• 13:26
  Jim Terry: There's serious stuff, but you have to puncture that balloon.
• 13:30
  Jim Terry: With a laugh once in a while.
• 13:31
  Tad Eggleston: Don't.
• 13:32
  Jim Terry: Oh, if you watch Res Dogs, you know, they're… they're excellent reservation dogs.
• 13:38
  Jim Terry: They're at that, threading the line between pathos and humor.
• 13:43
  Jim Terry: And, you know, okay, I'm gonna hit you with some hard truths now, and I'm gonna make… I'm gonna take you on this emotional journey, and we're gonna go through the weeds.
• 13:53
  Jim Terry: But at the end of it, I'm gonna pat you on the back, and I'm gonna tell you a joke, and we'll both laugh.
• 14:01
  Jim Terry: And we'll have that feeling together, you know, that sort Exhale. Exhalation.
• 14:07
  Jim Terry: You know, and I don't think those… I think that that is a, I do think that's a very Indigenous way of, teaching, and an Indigenous way of, existing.
• 14:18
  Tad Eggleston: And… Right.
• 14:19
  Jim Terry: that has been my experience, at least, and the experience of many, many, many, many other natives that I know, is, yeah, you know, you have to laugh. We gotta laugh at some of this stuff.
• 14:31
  Jim Terry: And, and, you know, for… You know, what the…
• 14:36
  Jim Terry: 250-year anniversary right around the corner, you know? Okay, yeah, we're gonna have to laugh at that… about that, you know?
• 14:44
  Tad Eggleston: It's chat.
• 14:45
  Jim Terry: And, you know, so… So…
• 14:48
  Jim Terry: do… extending that into my work. You know, there are places where I can be really silly, like in a movie like Shank.
• 14:55
  Jim Terry: And there's other places where it's like, okay, let's just encourage some… some self… some self-care.
• 15:02
  Jim Terry: You know?
• 15:03
  Jim Terry: Y'all need it, you know, and even in peaceful times, we need self-care, you know, and so…
• 15:11
  Jim Terry: And reminding myself, and hopefully anybody who's reading my work, that that stuff is important as well. Because, you know, you're not told that stuff, or at least my generation was not told to take care of yourself in that way.
• 15:25
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, God, no.
• 15:26
  Jim Terry: You know, it was, you know…
• 15:28
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, we still don't do a very good job of it, but, like.
• 15:30
  Jim Terry: No, I mean.
• 15:31
  Tad Eggleston: When you and I were kids, and before that, oh no.
• 15:36
  Jim Terry: And I'm just learning that, you know, hey, if something's gonna be heavy, I'm gonna have to have a game plan for afterwards so that I can be okay, you know? And I didn't know that stuff, you know? This is all things that I'm learning.
• 15:49
  Jim Terry: So…
• 15:49
  Tad Eggleston: I'm 46, and I've been in therapy for 35 of those years, and I'm.
• 15:53
  Jim Terry: No.
• 15:54
  Tad Eggleston: look at that, and I'm still not good at that. I'm still working on… okay. Does it work?
• 15:59
  Jim Terry: All for you?
• 16:00
  Tad Eggleston: It does. It works a ton for me. It works a ton for me. I'm also autistic and bipolar and have PTSD, so, you know, I got all sorts of stuff going on to work with.
• 16:10
  Jim Terry: Got some things, yeah, yeah.
• 16:12
  Tad Eggleston: Actually, the hardest thing for me was realizing that I also have to plan
• 16:17
  Tad Eggleston: how to handle the highs. Like, I have a lot of great interviews this week, and it's like, I know I'm gonna crash, I have to figure out how to handle
• 16:25
  Tad Eggleston: The comedowns.
• 16:28
  Jim Terry: I think that that's a thing that I tell, that I talk to with, other artists and creatives as well, because when I finish something that I've been working on for a great deal of time, putting a lot of effort into, when it's done, I'm… I have an existential crisis every time.
• 16:47
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 16:48
  Jim Terry: Now, there's something to be said about either A having a plan for when it's done, for how you're gonna congratulate yourself, for how you're gonna celebrate, you know, whatever it is, or B,
• 17:00
  Jim Terry: I always need to have something else to go to…
• 17:05
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 17:06
  Jim Terry: You know, and so…
• 17:06
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 17:07
  Jim Terry: I finish… I finish Shank, I started working on the novel that I was writing.
• 17:14
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, you're doing a novel now. You're… you're going all mediums.
• 17:17
  Jim Terry: I'm telling you, man, you know, why not?
• 17:20
  Tad Eggleston: I love it.
• 17:21
  Jim Terry: I wrote a novel.
• 17:22
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, hopefully one day you'll remember that comics are the greatest medium, but… but.
• 17:27
  Jim Terry: Well, certainly…
• 17:29
  Tad Eggleston: Four.
• 17:29
  Jim Terry: Clicks are the hardest media.
• 17:32
  Tad Eggleston: Okay, that's fair, too.
• 17:35
  Jim Terry: Yeah, like I said, I got a little toasted doing comics, because it is… it is the most,
• 17:43
  Jim Terry: It is the most work-intensive
• 17:45
  Jim Terry: Media for me, you know, sitting down and drawing 20, 22 pages a month, takes its toll.
• 17:54
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 17:55
  Jim Terry: In a way that…
• 17:56
  Jim Terry: And it's, you know, it's isolating, too. You know, it's… I can't work around other people. I try to, and I just get distracted.
• 18:06
  Jim Terry: So, it forces me to be in an isolated state.
• 18:10
  Jim Terry: And, you know, and that takes its toll as well. So…
• 18:16
  Jim Terry: Comics, for me, is the hardest medium.
• 18:20
  Jim Terry: It can also, you know, the rewards are all different for everything, as I'm sure you know.
• 18:27
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
• 18:29
  Jim Terry: A musician or somebody who performs in theater gets that immediate gratification, you know, that immediate response.
• 18:37
  Jim Terry: And I experienced that a little bit with Shank when it played in the theater.
• 18:41
  Jim Terry: You know, hearing the audience respond, that's an incredible high. That's… that's really… that was really a profoundly moving thing to hear people laughing at this ridiculous, you know, stuff that, for all I knew, nobody would think was funny except us, you know, the people who made it.
• 18:59
  Tad Eggleston: I thought it was funny.
• 19:00
  Tad Eggleston: I brought a group the last time, and they all liked it, so… so, like, and they didn't have the same reason to like it. Like, I know you, and I like you, so, like, I came in primed to like it.
• 19:12
  Jim Terry: Yeah.
• 19:12
  Tad Eggleston: I think my son kinda knows who you are, my friend Johnny knows that you work in comics, my friend Aaron doesn't care that you work in comics, and is a film nerd.
• 19:25
  Tad Eggleston: And liked it. Well, you know, I've been a film…
• 19:27
  Jim Terry: my entire life of,
• 19:29
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 19:29
  Jim Terry: every way, shape, and form of movie, you know? And…
• 19:33
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 19:34
  Jim Terry: I think that that…
• 19:35
  Jim Terry: I think that if you're a film lover and you watch Shank, you're gonna see that a film lover made this movie.
• 19:43
  Tad Eggleston: Well, it also… I mean, one of the reasons that I hope so much that it gets wider
• 19:55
  Tad Eggleston: distribution, I guess, is probably the best word, but just is seen by more people, is one of the things about movies in general that's frustrated me lately is, like.
• 20:06
  Tad Eggleston: It seems like nobody wants to make a sub-hundred-million dollar movie.
• 20:12
  Jim Terry: We made a sub-$100 movie.
• 20:15
  Tad Eggleston: Right, and that's my point. You can make great movies.
• 20:19
  Tad Eggleston: that don't cost $100 million, and I think we're winding up getting a… just a, like.
• 20:27
  Tad Eggleston: Just to use the comics term, it's… movies are, and some people will even like… like the genre aspect, movies are becoming just superhero.
• 20:38
  Tad Eggleston: And even if they're not just superhero movies, they're, like…
• 20:43
  Tad Eggleston: they're too much becoming just Blockbuster.
• 20:46
  Tad Eggleston: Fair.
• 20:48
  Tad Eggleston: Like, like…
• 20:49
  Tad Eggleston: Even in my lifetime, there were times where there were lots of, like, 10 and 15 million dollar movies where half of it was going to the actors.
• 20:58
  Jim Terry: I mean, that's been true in the past, and there is a bubble that broke, you know? I mean, if you look at the studio system in the late 60s, the bloated stuff that they were putting out at that time, nobody remembers that now, and they're not great.
• 21:13
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, yeah.
• 21:14
  Jim Terry: You know, but because of that, the studio system fell apart, and then suddenly all these auteurs were showing up.
• 21:22
  Jim Terry: Right? And, you know, not all of them had big budgets. I mean, Roger Corman was responsible for jump-starting the careers of half of the people we respect and admire today.
• 21:31
  Tad Eggleston: Absolutely. Absolutely.
• 21:33
  Jim Terry: We're doing it on peanuts, and
• 21:37
  Jim Terry: And so, you know, all the blockbusters that…
• 21:41
  Jim Terry: That's just how it is right now, you know?
• 21:44
  Jim Terry: Bubble will break, and… You know, there…
• 21:47
  Tad Eggleston: Part of what will break the bubble is movies like Shank actually breaking through.
• 21:51
  Jim Terry: Well, that would be great. You know, there are also…
• 21:53
  Tad Eggleston: That's what I'm saying. And I'm certain there are other ones out there. Like, I hope that every city has their version of Shank.
• 22:01
  Tad Eggleston: Like…
• 22:02
  Jim Terry: Yeah, yeah, that'd be wild, and then they could all…
• 22:06
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, and that, like, it's just that I don't live in Seattle, so I don't know what the Seattle version of Shank is.
• 22:15
  Jim Terry: Look, let me…
• 22:16
  Tad Eggleston: whatever.
• 22:17
  Jim Terry: Right now, there's only one shank, baby.
• 22:19
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, you're right, you're right.
• 22:20
  Jim Terry: Okay.
• 22:25
  Jim Terry: There can only.
• 22:25
  Tad Eggleston: Mom.
• 22:26
  Jim Terry: One shank.
• 22:30
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, it is, it's… I don't… like…
• 22:34
  Tad Eggleston: It's a… it's a movie that has to be seen to be… to completely understand how fun it is.
• 22:40
  Jim Terry: Big peak.
• 22:41
  Tad Eggleston: Because, like, almost any… almost any of the ways that you can use words about it don't make it sound as good as it is.
• 22:50
  Jim Terry: Well.
• 22:50
  Tad Eggleston: Unless… unless you're talking to the type of person who knows, right? Like, when I… the first person I wound up talking to on the podcast after… after seeing Shank the first time was David Walker, who… who is… was a film… film…
• 23:05
  Tad Eggleston: reviewer for long before he was a comic writer. So, you know, he's written 10,000 movie reviews, and when I started talking about Shank, he exact… he immediately knew what I was talking about. And it's like, oh, that sounds like a fantastic movie.
• 23:22
  Tad Eggleston: Huh. Boom.
• 23:23
  Jim Terry: What, what, what, what is most…
• 23:25
  Jim Terry: wonderfully surprising to me is that, looking back, it feels effortless. It felt like it was effortless, although I put many, many, many, many, as you can imagine.
• 23:35
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 23:36
  Jim Terry: hundreds, if not thousands of hours into making this thing. But looking back, it was all relaxation to me. It was all very relaxing to work on that movie. Even doing, you know, sound design, and, you know, I did pretty much everything that was behind the scenes.
• 23:54
  Tad Eggleston: Your music was really good, even if you want to put somebody else's name on it.
• 23:57
  Jim Terry: You know, I just get tired of seeing my name. I was like.
• 24:01
  Tad Eggleston: That's fair. That's fair. But, like, if you want to put out an album, you probably could.
• 24:07
  Jim Terry: That you eat .
• 24:07
  Tad Eggleston: You put the absolute head.
• 24:09
  Jim Terry: Yeah.
• 24:09
  Tad Eggleston: You could go EGOT, man. Now just write a play.
• 24:14
  Jim Terry: I have too many, yeah, I have too many things on the stove already, I'm gonna burn one of them.
• 24:19
  Tad Eggleston: And I know that you're doing some set design work.
• 24:23
  Jim Terry: How did you know that?
• 24:24
  Tad Eggleston: Well, because Mark Pratt is a regular on 22 Panels. He's part of the Pulp Lotter Book Club that I tried to get you to join.
• 24:33
  Jim Terry: Oh.
• 24:34
  Jim Terry: Yeah, yeah, in fact, that's what I'm gonna work on today, as soon as I'm done with this.
• 24:39
  Tad Eggleston: Well, then you can tell, you know, if you're late or anything like that, just blame me.
• 24:45
  Jim Terry: Okay.
• 24:46
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, because literally, Mark…
• 24:49
  Tad Eggleston: wanted to come to both of the screenings that I came to.
• 24:55
  Jim Terry: Yeah.
• 24:55
  Tad Eggleston: And couldn't because he was doing stuff for the play.
• 24:58
  Jim Terry: Yeah, yeah.
• 24:59
  Tad Eggleston: Like, the Goodman one was a tech rehearsal day, and they just absolutely could not…
• 25:05
  Jim Terry: Right, yeah.
• 25:07
  Jim Terry: No, no, he'll say, I'm sure of it, you know, it's…
• 25:10
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 25:11
  Jim Terry: I hesitate to, to give… to give out the, you know, to… to show people to watch in their own homes, because it really is…
• 25:19
  Jim Terry: so much better in the theater with other people, you know? It is…
• 25:24
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, I'm gonna push back on that a little, because I have experienced it both ways now.
• 25:29
  Tad Eggleston: And I was telling you a little bit off-air, one of the reasons I love this movie, love this movie, is it is both the movie that I love seeing in the… I mean, I don't like going to the theater where there are strangers and whatnot, but this is a movie that, like, has enough of that vibe and whatnot that I enjoy going out and being around people that I don't know and enjoying their energy.
• 25:53
  Tad Eggleston: Right?
• 25:55
  Tad Eggleston: But I also…
• 25:58
  Tad Eggleston: just had it on the background while I was reading comic books last night, and… and, like, enjoyed just having it as part of my…
• 26:07
  Tad Eggleston: environment. And in some ways, I'm pickier about…
• 26:11
  Tad Eggleston: the things that are just environmental to me than I am about the ones that I just…
• 26:18
  Tad Eggleston: Sit down and, like, watch, watch.
• 26:21
  Tad Eggleston: So, I mean, I think it really does cross, you know… It both… both…
• 26:30
  Tad Eggleston: is big enough and steady enough to be a great experience to be able to watch in a theater. And…
• 26:36
  Tad Eggleston: Quiet enough, with enough, like.
• 26:40
  Tad Eggleston: Really great, perk up and enjoy this fun minute.
• 26:44
  Tad Eggleston: and then go back to doing what you're doing, and spending, like, 1% of your brain on the movie to be, like, eminently rewatchable. And, like, I don't think people value that enough.
• 26:58
  Jim Terry: They don't value a movie where you can do something else while you're watching it.
• 27:06
  Tad Eggleston: You know, I mean, for those of us who are neurodiverse, and there are a lot of us, we have trouble doing one thing at a time.
• 27:14
  Jim Terry: No, I understand. I do the same thing. I have to work.
• 27:18
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 27:19
  Jim Terry: And, and it eats me up that…
• 27:21
  Jim Terry: You know, the only time I pay attention to a… full attention to a movie is if I'm in the theater, or if it has… if it's foreign, and I have to read the subtitles. Right. And I can only watch it for so long before I have to get back to work. You know, so I understand that.
• 27:38
  Jim Terry: And, there are movies that… but what I want Shank to be… and I feel bad for… for all the people who are tuning into this who have no idea what we're talking about.
• 27:48
  Tad Eggleston: Well, go watch the trailer. The trailer will help.
• 27:51
  Jim Terry: Oh yeah, yeah, the trailer, the trailer…
• 27:52
  Tad Eggleston: Trailer is up.
• 27:54
  Tad Eggleston: It's not private.
• 27:55
  Jim Terry: You'll get a little vibe of it from that.
• 27:58
  Jim Terry: Oh.
• 28:00
  Jim Terry: But I want… I want it to be a comfort movie, you know?
• 28:03
  Tad Eggleston: Wiz.
• 28:04
  Jim Terry: our comfort film said, you know, I can't tell you how many times I've seen the Blues Brothers. It's in the hundreds.
• 28:12
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 28:13
  Jim Terry: You know, big trouble.
• 28:14
  Tad Eggleston: And that's actually… that's actually something that I… I laugh at sometimes when I'm… when I'm…
• 28:18
  Tad Eggleston: like, I told you that my family has a movie club, and, like, sometimes there'll be, like, comfort movies and that, and whatnot, and they'll say, yeah, I love this movie, I've seen it, like, 3 times, and I'm like…
• 28:29
  Tad Eggleston: You love this movie, and you've seen it 3 times? I love this movie, and I lost track somewhere in the 300s. Yeah.
• 28:38
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, people…
• 28:39
  Jim Terry: People watch movies differently now, too.
• 28:42
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 28:43
  Jim Terry: I can't tell you the last movie… well, I can, probably. The last movie I've watched more than once that's come out recently, you know? Where I was like.
• 28:52
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 28:52
  Jim Terry: And, you know, I think it was weapons. I saw that.
• 28:55
  Tad Eggleston: Okay.
• 28:56
  Jim Terry: Three, three, maybe four times, and… Right. I watch it a few times at home.
• 29:02
  Jim Terry: And, you know, it's those movies where the movies that I end up watching more than once now are the ones that I have to share.
• 29:09
  Jim Terry: Right. Oh, you haven't seen it? I'll go with you, you know?
• 29:12
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 29:13
  Tad Eggleston: Alright.
• 29:14
  Jim Terry: We'll see that.
• 29:15
  Tad Eggleston: Well, and Shank falls into that category for me, too. Like, I mean, I went alone the first time, though I tried to find people to go. I literally bought 10 tickets the second they went on sale to go the second time.
• 29:28
  Tad Eggleston: Just assuming that I'd find as many people as I could find.
• 29:32
  Jim Terry: And did you?
• 29:33
  Tad Eggleston: I didn't find all 10.
• 29:35
  Jim Terry: Where were they? Boy, those other… those other…
• 29:38
  Tad Eggleston: A couple of… a couple of them were in tech…
• 29:42
  Tad Eggleston: In tech for the play that you're doing set design for, and…
• 29:48
  Tad Eggleston: And a couple of them had… had something going on at the comic shop that I need you to come out to, and…
• 29:57
  Tad Eggleston: And I didn't manage to get anybody to come in from out of town, though I tried.
• 30:02
  Tad Eggleston: Well, it'll.
• 30:04
  Jim Terry: As far as, like, near future, I don't know… I… I'm worried about,
• 30:12
  Jim Terry: renting out the theater again, because I don't want to oversaturate, you know? I mean, it needs time.
• 30:19
  Jim Terry: To breathe, and people to, you know, and nobody wants…
• 30:24
  Tad Eggleston: I think you're at the point on this movie where you should be having people invite you to come, you shouldn't have to pay to rent out the theater.
• 30:31
  Jim Terry: Well, that's in the works with a…
• 30:34
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 30:34
  Jim Terry: that will go unnamed for the moment until.
• 30:37
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 30:38
  Jim Terry: solidified, but that could be in the fall, and I've submitted it to some film festivals.
• 30:44
  Tad Eggleston: That's what I wanted to hear. Yeah.
• 30:47
  Jim Terry: Yeah. I mean, film festivals are weird, though, you know? Yeah. And a movie like Shank.
• 30:54
  Jim Terry: is, you know, it has to be a specific type of film festival. Yeah.
• 30:59
  Tad Eggleston: For a…
• 30:59
  Jim Terry: work. And, and
• 31:02
  Jim Terry: And for some weird reason, the fact that it was made on nothing seems to bother people.
• 31:08
  Jim Terry: You know, it's, they…
• 31:11
  Tad Eggleston: You know, I mean…
• 31:12
  Jim Terry: of something, and when you tell it for, like, maybe $1,000?
• 31:17
  Jim Terry: You know?
• 31:18
  Tad Eggleston: Well, like, you need to blow up the budget by making the actors' time, like, gifts of hourly wages, so, so, like, however long the actors were there.
• 31:33
  Tad Eggleston: You know, it was… it was, like, $50 per hour, and they just gifted it to you, but that doesn't mean it wasn't part of the budget.
• 31:42
  Jim Terry: I guess so, yeah. Nobody got paid a dime for this movie, you know?
• 31:47
  Tad Eggleston: I…
• 31:47
  Jim Terry: included in…
• 31:49
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 31:49
  Jim Terry: But that's part of the beauty of it, is, you know, and maybe I said this at one of the Q&As, but…
• 31:56
  Jim Terry: You know, this is a movie where… Everybody involved
• 32:02
  Jim Terry: And it's a fairly big cast.
• 32:04
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 32:05
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, it's not small.
• 32:08
  Jim Terry: Everybody involved in that movie, just put their faith in me.
• 32:12
  Jim Terry: You know, they had no idea what they were signing up for.
• 32:16
  Jim Terry: And they just said, oh, you want me to put on a motion cap suit with two little ping pong balls on it?
• 32:24
  Jim Terry: Okay.
• 32:26
  Jim Terry: I trust…
• 32:32
  Jim Terry: And…
• 32:32
  Tad Eggleston: You're gonna have what come out of my stomach? Sure.
• 32:35
  Jim Terry: Yeah.
• 32:36
  Jim Terry: We're gonna go to the woods, and I'm gonna be dressed as who? You know, so…
• 32:41
  Jim Terry: you know, all these folks just… that was the… that's what really moved me, watching it. And when I was toward the end of the editing process, and I was watching it, and seeing it kind of come together and breathe in a way that it was unexpected.
• 32:57
  Jim Terry: when I… I just realized, like, wow, all these people just put their trust in me, and it could have been so…
• 33:04
  Jim Terry: You know, it could have been really awful, and they still did it, and just, without question, were like, okay, you want me to… I know some karate stuff, I'll come out and do it.
• 33:16
  Jim Terry: You know? I'm just gonna wear my Bears t-shirt, though, you know?
• 33:21
  Tad Eggleston: Right. Right.
• 33:22
  Jim Terry: Okay.
• 33:23
  Tad Eggleston: I…
• 33:24
  Jim Terry: Yeah, come on out, man, let's do it! You got time on Thursday, you know, and…
• 33:29
  Tad Eggleston: Well, and I know we're running, running,
• 33:32
  Tad Eggleston: tighter on time right now, and I have my traditional closing questions I like to keep at least 10 minutes for. Okay.
• 33:39
  Tad Eggleston: But… but I do wanna… I do wanna… one… one more thing that really struck me, well, really two things put together. The first is, like, just how well you use the city of Chicago, but, like.
• 33:53
  Tad Eggleston: the city of Chicago that people who live in and around Chicago know, not the city of Chicago.
• 34:01
  Tad Eggleston: Like, I mean, there were times where I'm like, do I know that specific house? And I had to remind myself that some of the neighborhoods are really similar, but, like.
• 34:10
  Jim Terry: Yeah.
• 34:11
  Tad Eggleston: the backyard saying, it's like, that backyard is so similar to a backyard I know on Artesian that I had to go, no, no, there's this difference and this difference. But it's not like the tree is in the wrong spot, because the tree next to the garage is in the right spot. It's just that, like, okay, the fence is not quite the same.
• 34:32
  Jim Terry: Yeah.
• 34:33
  Jim Terry: Yeah, well, that makes me feel good to hear, because, you know, there was a moment where I was like, should I shoot some…
• 34:39
  Jim Terry: iconic Chicago moments, you know, should we go downtown and shoot, shoot in Grant Park? And I said, no.
• 34:47
  Tad Eggleston: I actually love that you didn't.
• 34:49
  Tad Eggleston: I love… I mean, it's like… it's my favorite way of seeing Chicago in a comic, as well, is when it's like, oh, that's this or that bar.
• 35:01
  Jim Terry: Yeah, yeah.
• 35:01
  Tad Eggleston: You know, they just put it in Chicago, they just set this story in Chicago for the people who know, and the people who don't know, it can still be their city.
• 35:13
  Jim Terry: Yeah, yeah, I mean, I love the fact that it's a very Chicago movie, down to, you know, some of the people's accents, who just can't be faked, how they talk.
• 35:25
  Jim Terry: Yeah.
• 35:25
  Tad Eggleston: But then… Likewise, like…
• 35:31
  Tad Eggleston: Just like sometimes when people who work in animation first make comics, you can see their animation
• 35:40
  Tad Eggleston: Bonafides, you know, even when they love comics and they make great comics, you can see the parts that bleed over from their animation, right?
• 35:53
  Tad Eggleston: I can see your comic book thinking in…
• 35:58
  Tad Eggleston: In your shots.
• 36:00
  Jim Terry: I can see what? Yeah.
• 36:02
  Tad Eggleston: Particularly, like, the road shots, I'm like, he actually has them at eye level. Most movies actually have them a little, like, above the car.
• 36:12
  Tad Eggleston: And you don't notice it, because that's the typical movie shot. But the comic shot is…
• 36:19
  Tad Eggleston: the eye level, and that's… and that's where he's at. He's at eye level. You're seeing what you'd see if you were driving down this road, not if you were standing on top of a car driving down this road.
• 36:33
  Jim Terry: Yeah. Well, that wasn't in our budget, you know, so… So many things are, are, predicated on what you're… what is possible, you know, and so…
• 36:45
  Jim Terry: So you take… you try to make them look creative, and you…
• 36:49
  Jim Terry: you… you know, it's like… not saying that I'm any master chef of filmmaking, but, you know, when… I always respect people
• 36:58
  Jim Terry: who, I don't know how to cook. I'm a terrible cook.
• 37:03
  Jim Terry: Everything I eat is strictly utilitarian, you know, unless I'm going out to eat somewhere. But if I'm at home, it's PP&J or quesadillas, you know?
• 37:13
  Tad Eggleston: And, right.
• 37:14
  Jim Terry: And so I always am… I'm always mystified by people who are able to look in a cupboard and see what they have and make something amazing.
• 37:24
  Jim Terry: You know, those are the people who I'm like, wow, you're an alchemist, you know, all you have is flour and this thing over here, and this is amazing… this is an amazing meal, you know, and and I try to do that with what I have.
• 37:38
  Tad Eggleston: Amazing.
• 37:39
  Jim Terry: In the filmmaking, and working with no budget.
• 37:42
  Jim Terry: It's like, okay, well, we can't do that, but what if I just lean outside of the car.
• 37:47
  Jim Terry: And.
• 37:49
  Tad Eggleston: This makes me want to go to a couple of things from Robert Rodriguez.
• 37:56
  Tad Eggleston: and I always forget with the filmmaking stuff, whether it's from his book, Rebel Without a Crew, or whether it's from…
• 38:04
  Tad Eggleston: any number of commentary tracks, special features, whatever, but one of the things that he'd always talk about is one of the reasons he was able to make movies cheaper
• 38:13
  Tad Eggleston: and still look good, is he didn't have to shoot as much footage. He was able to picture, this is what I want in my head. And that's kind of what I'm talking about in terms of your comic books.
• 38:23
  Jim Terry: Yeah.
• 38:24
  Tad Eggleston: through. Your training is, I have to figure out what the angle is on this shot.
• 38:30
  Jim Terry: Yeah.
• 38:31
  Tad Eggleston: you know, to draw it to whatever. So I think you're doing some pretty extensive storyboard in your head.
• 38:40
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah. As you decide how you're gonna do something.
• 38:43
  Jim Terry: Well, the way that I used to shoot movies before I could edit, and this is in the early 90s.
• 38:49
  Jim Terry: Right. Where I just had a camera, and the only way you could edit, if you didn't… if you didn't have technology available to you, which I did not, you know, you edit in camera.
• 38:58
  Jim Terry: So, you say, alright, I'm gonna jump over here and shoot this. Okay, stop, okay, I'm gonna run over here and film this moment, you know, and you have to keep it all in your head, and I think, absolutely.
• 39:11
  Jim Terry: visual storytelling in comics has, certainly given me a leg up in that aspect, because I kind of know what's gonna work.
• 39:20
  Jim Terry: And, if something needs to be punched up, or if it's a tense moment, okay, let's go to some… some weird close-ups. And again, you know, it's a lifetime of being a film lover, you know? Well, how would Sergio Leone do this, you know? How do I match a wide shot with an extreme close-up?
• 39:38
  Jim Terry: okay, well, if Scorsese, the camera's always moving, do I want to do that, or do I need to sit back and do a wide Kubrickian shot, you know, because…
• 39:49
  Jim Terry: And, and hopefully all that stuff
• 39:51
  Jim Terry: you know, my friends, they… a lot of them are very film literate, you know? Some of them don't care, you know, and I'm like, okay, I'm gonna get on the floor now and shoot up at you, so you just stand here, you know, and they… okay.
• 40:06
  Jim Terry: I'm gonna get really close to your face.
• 40:09
  Jim Terry: Because I don't have the right lens to shoot from a distance. So I'm gonna get.
• 40:13
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 40:13
  Jim Terry: Put the camera right in your face now. Okay, I don't like that, but whatever, you know?
• 40:21
  Jim Terry: Yeah.
• 40:21
  Tad Eggleston: We'll just say the lines and be done.
• 40:24
  Jim Terry: Right, yeah.
• 40:25
  Tad Eggleston: It's only 35 seconds of trauma.
• 40:29
  Jim Terry: Yeah, yeah.
• 40:31
  Tad Eggleston: The other Robert Rodriguez thing, the cooking thing, one of my favorite things about some of the deluxe versions of his DVDs from back in the day is, as well as, like, his 10-minute film schools, he would have 15-minute cooking schools.
• 40:48
  Jim Terry: Oh, yeah.
• 40:49
  Tad Eggleston: Like, his theory was, as a man.
• 40:53
  Tad Eggleston: It was important to cook 2 or 3 things really well to impress women.
• 40:59
  Tad Eggleston: But that didn't mean you had to be a cook. That meant you had to, like…
• 41:05
  Tad Eggleston: Come up with 2 or 3 dishes, and learn how to make them.
• 41:09
  Jim Terry: Yeah.
• 41:10
  Jim Terry: Yeah.
• 41:10
  Tad Eggleston: They taught us how to make, like, breakfast tacos, and I forget.
• 41:14
  Jim Terry: I think that probably works for any gender.
• 41:17
  Tad Eggleston: You know?
• 41:18
  Jim Terry: You can do 2 or 3 good dishes, you can fake your way into the rest of it, yeah.
• 41:24
  Tad Eggleston: Right. I mean, he even showed off, apparently at his house, he had, like, a laminated menu of the five things that he knew how to cook, so when it was his turn to cook, they could just pick.
• 41:37
  Jim Terry: Yeah.
• 41:37
  Tad Eggleston: So, anyway…
• 41:40
  Tad Eggleston: Two closing questions. The first one, I don't think I've asked you before, because it's my new one this year. This is my fifth year doing this podcast, and I feel like I've entered the Twilight Zone.
• 41:52
  Tad Eggleston: The experience… the experiences that I get to have, the people that I get to meet, the people who I now consider friends.
• 41:59
  Tad Eggleston: Like, just in general, so much of my life right now, if you told 10-year-old comic…
• 42:05
  Tad Eggleston: geek me, or even 35-year-old comic geek me, that this was gonna be my life, I would have been like, yeah, fuck you, you're out of your mind.
• 42:15
  Tad Eggleston: But I've found that, like, everybody in comics… has…
• 42:20
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, you've talked about it a little here with the movie. Oh, everybody was willing to just trust me. Everybody in comics has similar things, where they look back and they go, oh, wow, that was me in that room, or that was me that did that, or that… that was me…
• 42:37
  Tad Eggleston: in some scenario, that even looking back, there's just that little element of surrealism that's, wow, I got to do that. So I started collecting stories. Tell me… tell me a moment that wouldn't have happened if you hadn't devoted your life to comics and or the arts.
• 42:56
  Tad Eggleston: That still just kind of has you going, wow, I got to do that. You can't cheat and say, I got to make a movie, because that's what the whole podcast is about.
• 43:06
  Jim Terry: You know, I think it's mostly the people that… that I've been able to meet because of the work that I've done.
• 43:13
  Jim Terry: And I think those are probably the moments where, you know, I don't get super starstruck by people, generally.
• 43:20
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 43:22
  Jim Terry: Especially when you see them up close, you're like, oh…
• 43:25
  Jim Terry: okay, that guy has big pores on his face, or, you know… or I'm taller than this person, whatever it is, you know, they're just people. And I'm just a person, too, so I don't get starstruck too often.
• 43:41
  Jim Terry: But on occasion, I will find myself in the company of people whose work I tremendously respect.
• 43:48
  Jim Terry: And, you know, I have absolutely had those moments where I've been sitting at a dinner, or something like that, and look around at the astonishing people that I'm surrounded by, and just be like.
• 44:01
  Jim Terry: wow, I am lucky, and I don't know how I got here. I don't know why I'm sitting here with these people, you know? And so…
• 44:10
  Tad Eggleston: Isn't it cool?
• 44:12
  Jim Terry: Yeah, yeah.
• 44:14
  Jim Terry: I can't believe I'm just BS-ing with this, with this person that…
• 44:18
  Jim Terry: That made this keto work, you know?
• 44:21
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, that's how I feel right now.
• 44:23
  Jim Terry: Yeah, you're welcome.
• 44:25
  Tad Eggleston: I get to BS with Jim Terry about these incredible works that he made. Yeah, but yeah, no, that's exactly what I'm talking about, is just… it's so much.
• 44:34
  Jim Terry: Yeah, yeah, I don't think any other singular-type moment where I was like, whoa. I mean, I know I've had them, but off the top of my head… Right.
• 44:42
  Tad Eggleston: And that's fair.
• 44:44
  Jim Terry: Yeah, I'm more astonished that I get to meet some of the incredible people that I do.
• 44:49
  Tad Eggleston: Absolutely.
• 44:50
  Tad Eggleston: Final question, and this one you have answered before, but I don't remember your previous answers, so you've got an open slate. Tell me something you love.
• 45:00
  Tad Eggleston: Preferably a comic, but we don't have rules. Preferably storytelling, but again, with the rules, but something that you love, that not enough people are…
• 45:10
  Tad Eggleston: Around you have experienced, and you'd really like them to, so that you have more people to talk about it with.
• 45:17
  Jim Terry: Mmm, aside from Shank, I'm assuming.
• 45:21
  Tad Eggleston: Well, again, we've been talking about that for a while. And people are talking about Shank.
• 45:27
  Jim Terry: Particularly.
• 45:28
  Tad Eggleston: people around you are talking about Shank.
• 45:32
  Jim Terry: But I'm talking about Shank.
• 45:37
  Jim Terry: You know what? Let me see, because that's a.
• 45:41
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, I hear there's a whole podcast that talks about Shank.
• 45:45
  Jim Terry: Is there? .
• 45:48
  Tad Eggleston: Well, no, I, I, I was, I was, I was being meta. Kidding, yeah. Okay, okay.
• 45:53
  Jim Terry: Got you. I was with you on that.
• 45:55
  Tad Eggleston: Well, I was talking about the podcast in the movie, not my podcast.
• 45:59
  Jim Terry: Oh, yeah, yeah, the, the Why Can't It Be True cast.
• 46:04
  Tad Eggleston: Right, right.
• 46:08
  Jim Terry: I think that…
• 46:09
  Tad Eggleston: It was being super meta.
• 46:11
  Jim Terry: It is… that's very meta, and it's meta in so many ways. I think that one thing that I would like to talk to more people about is, Indigenous horror.
• 46:22
  Jim Terry: And, a lot of great stuff that's coming out right now. You know, I can probably count on one hand the amount of people that have read The Buffalo Hunter Hunter, which I just finished not too long ago by Stephen Graham Jones, and it was… it was not just a good horror… horror novel, and not just a great…
• 46:42
  Jim Terry: Indigenous novel. It was… it was both. It was… it was just a great read.
• 46:47
  Jim Terry: And, you know, I don't… you know, it's a fairly niche area, I guess, but
• 46:55
  Jim Terry: You know, I love horror. You know that I do, you know, and I love Alzheim.
• 47:02
  Jim Terry: And so, I don't know if there's anything, because I'm also lucky enough, as you see from the movie, that I'm a part of many different communities.
• 47:11
  Tad Eggleston: communities.
• 47:12
  Jim Terry: Yeah, and so, there's very rarely where I experience something that somebody I know has not
• 47:19
  Jim Terry: you know, I see… I see some obscure Indonesian horror film from the early… early 80s, and you know, one of my friends has seen it, you know, and…
• 47:30
  Jim Terry: And so… so there's… there's very few of that, you know, but… but, I think that everybody should watch Reservation Dogs if they haven't watched it. You don't have to be Indigenous to love that show. It's a univers… it's… they talk about universal things, but…
• 47:46
  Jim Terry: But it also is a gateway to a specific type of modern Indigenous thinking that I think is beautiful, and that many people could benefit from. So I would say if there was anything that I could
• 48:01
  Jim Terry: always promote, it would be to sit through the three perfect seasons of that show.
• 48:08
  Tad Eggleston: Well, it just went higher on my list. It's been on my list for…
• 48:12
  Jim Terry: It's gonna blow your mind, and I… and I say that without my…
• 48:15
  Tad Eggleston: I don't even think it's the first time that's been the answer to this question, but it just on my list.
• 48:19
  Tad Eggleston: Okay. So, Jim, thank you so, so, so much. It's always a pleasure to talk to you, and I know you're busy, so, so we're…
• 48:28
  Jim Terry: I know that I'm kind of hard to nail down, so I'm glad that you didn't give up on me.
• 48:33
  Tad Eggleston: I am just glad that I didn't annoy you, because that's always the balancing act with being persistent. Am I being persistent, or am I missing…
• 48:43
  Tad Eggleston: Unspoken cues to leave him the fuck alone.
• 48:48
  Jim Terry: Well, believe me, I'm direct enough that I will say that.
• 48:52
  Tad Eggleston: Y.
• 48:52
  Jim Terry: what I need.
• 48:53
  Tad Eggleston: Good to know.
• 48:56
  Tad Eggleston: So, for Jim Terry.
• 48:58
  Jim Terry: Not quite yet.
• 48:59
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, for Jim Terry, this has been 22 Panels. I will… we will see you after the next page.
• 49:04
  Jim Terry: Thanks for having me on.