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I Found a Suspicious Hotel Charge on My Husbands Credit Card · Therapy Thursday with Ellen K

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Rogue charges because if there aren't any other bad charges,
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: which I don't think there are, I think he stinks.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: So if you were a betting lady, you would bet
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: that he was up to something in that hotel.
• 0:14
  Speaker 3: Ryan, where do you fall?
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Mary, but I think there's something not right.
• 0:20
  Speaker 4: I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt.
• 0:21
  Speaker 4: I think this guy sounds like a lovely man.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Yes, I think so too.
• 0:24
  Speaker 5: I do.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: But I think behind her back, he might be a
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: freak in the sheets.
• 0:29
  Speaker 5: All right.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: You guys hear about adult Play-Doh?
• 0:38
  Speaker 4: Yes. What's adult Play-Doh?
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: So it's Play-Doh like we played with kids.
• 0:43
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: But now Hasbro has made it for adults. And it's
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: a kit they're selling. And it's therapeutic because you can
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: make these realistic looking flowers out of these beautiful colors.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: Plus you get the scent of that nostalgic Play-Doh. And
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: I think it's kind of like the next... Remember how
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: adult coloring books were a big thing? Now we have
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: adult Play-Doh.
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: I like that.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: I do too. don't you feel like there's a trend
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: of more play? Everyone's saying it, play more, get outside, skip,
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: do all the things you did as a kid that
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: are good for your brain.
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: It's expansive.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: Yes. And all the World Cup players, no matter how
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: far they went in the tournament, I heard them all
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: talking about mental health and how they play football, not
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: only because they love it, but it's so good for
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: their minds. And some of them struggled through a lot
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: of mental health issues to keep going and i feel
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: like it was just such a teaching moment to the
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: world i love.
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: It that they were talking about that and i like
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: it that's it's becoming a bigger and bigger part of
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: the conversation.
• 1:47
  Speaker 4: Yep yeah and if you even think about like the
• 1:50
  Speaker 4: trend with uh our kids i mean ellen you and
• 1:52
  Speaker 4: i on the radio show the other day talked to
• 1:53
  Speaker 4: a mom and a daughter they were going to look
• 1:55
  Speaker 4: for neato's those squishy things yeah and in a world
• 1:58
  Speaker 4: of high tech I think it's awesome that a kid
• 2:01
  Speaker 4: just wants something to squish.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: I like that, too.
• 2:04
  Speaker 5: You know? Yeah.
• 2:04
  Speaker 4: Sarah, as an LMFT, Sarah Dash, our licensed therapist here
• 2:08
  Speaker 4: on Therapy Thursday, during your sessions, do you find it
• 2:13
  Speaker 4: better to keep eye contact like this, or would you
• 2:16
  Speaker 4: give someone adult Play-Doh to work with while they're talking?
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: You know, that's such an interesting question.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: I don't have any problem with it at all because
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: I think sometimes when our hands are occupied, it kind
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: of frees us up a little bit.
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: I have had people.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: Several times like knit and crochet during sessions.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: Okay. That's cool. It's relaxing. Yeah. That's nice. I like
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: that a lot. Let's talk to Mary. Mary's on the line.
• 2:47
  Speaker 5: Hi, Mary.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: Hey, guys.
• 2:49
  Speaker 5: I love your show. How are you?
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: Hey, thanks. We're good. Really good. We're happy that you
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: need therapy and that we can provide it with our
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: licensed therapist, Sarah Dash.
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: Hey, Mary.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: How's it going?
• 3:03
  Speaker 5: Okay. So two Saturdays ago, my husband stayed home for
• 3:07
  Speaker 5: my cousin's birthday dinner. because he said he had a
• 3:10
  Speaker 5: migraine and needed dark room and silence. And I felt
• 3:13
  Speaker 5: bad for him because I have migraines, too, from time
• 3:16
  Speaker 5: to time, and I know how that works. So I said, okay,
• 3:18
  Speaker 5: that's okay, honey. And so he stayed home, and I
• 3:20
  Speaker 5: even bought him home cake so he wouldn't feel like
• 3:23
  Speaker 5: left out or anything. Okay, well, last week, I'm going
• 3:28
  Speaker 5: through our credit card statement to dispute a charge, and
• 3:32
  Speaker 5: I find another charge of $ 212, 000. to a hotel that's
• 3:41
  Speaker 5: 20 minutes from our house that was charged at 7
• 3:47
  Speaker 5: 42 p.m on migraine night the night that he said
• 3:52
  Speaker 5: he had a migraine and wanted to go home okay
• 3:57
  Speaker 5: so i was like what the and i didn't confront
• 4:02
  Speaker 5: him i haven't confronted him not yet okay instead i
• 4:06
  Speaker 5: did something i'm not proud of but I just had
• 4:10
  Speaker 5: to get some more intel or detail. So I called
• 4:12
  Speaker 5: the hotel and pretended I needed a receipt copy for
• 4:16
  Speaker 5: our expense report.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 4:18
  Speaker 5: Ellen, Sarah, okay. This is where my mind really started
• 4:22
  Speaker 5: going in. They emailed it to me in five minutes, right? Yeah.
• 4:25
  Speaker 5: One room, one king bed, room service for two, a
• 4:30
  Speaker 5: bottle of wine with two entries. Check out the next
• 4:33
  Speaker 5: morning at 9 a.m. Now, our anniversary is next month.
• 4:42
  Speaker 5: It's our 10th anniversary. And I'm up here kind of
• 4:45
  Speaker 5: stuck between stories in my head. Story number one, that
• 4:49
  Speaker 5: my husband faked the migraine to spend a night at
• 4:53
  Speaker 5: a hotel with somebody else, even though I bought him
• 4:56
  Speaker 5: cake and felt sorry for him.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 4:58
  Speaker 5: And then there's story two. Okay, am I about to
• 5:03
  Speaker 5: torch my own anniversary surprise and become the wife who
• 5:06
  Speaker 5: called the hotel and interrogated the front desk over maybe
• 5:10
  Speaker 5: a surprise party that he's planning for me? I don't know.
• 5:15
  Speaker 5: But I'm just thinking, in reality, who plants a surprise
• 5:20
  Speaker 5: with a king bed and wine for two overnight? And
• 5:23
  Speaker 5: you're just 20 minutes from our house.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: I think you just answered your own question that scenario
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: two is an impossibility.
• 5:30
  Speaker 4: I wouldn't say impossibility.
• 5:31
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: What is it then?
• 5:33
  Speaker 4: We're going to have our therapist continue to dig here.
• 5:36
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: Well, what I hear on both stories that you're telling
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: yourself is narrative construction. which means it's an attempt to
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: resolve ambiguity. We don't really know what happened. So we
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: have some information, and we're going to start filling in
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: that story. Now, your situation is interesting because it has
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: one scenario, which is quite distressing to you, understandably so.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: And then there's this other scenario where it's this lovely surprise.
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: And you don't want to screw up the lovely surprise
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: by digging in Oh.
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: Yep.
• 6:14
  Speaker 4: Yep.
• 6:17
  Speaker 5: I mean, I've got the receipt in my purse, and
• 6:21
  Speaker 5: it's been there for six days.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: Why six days? Why not ask him about this?
• 6:27
  Speaker 5: Because I didn't... Just what you said, I don't know
• 6:32
  Speaker 5: which scenario is stronger in my head right now. Do
• 6:36
  Speaker 5: I put the receipt on the kitchen table tonight or
• 6:40
  Speaker 5: wait until our anniversary and see what happens? What if
• 6:43
  Speaker 5: he is planning a surprise?
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: Okay, I would not wait.
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't wait.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: This is going to be psychologically exhausting if you wait
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: a month and carry this around with you.
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: And scenario number two, why would he take it for
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: a test drive?
• 7:00
  Speaker 4: Maybe he didn't, Ellen.
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: But there are charges for wine.
• 7:03
  Speaker 4: But maybe he pre-reserved it. He's got the bottle of wine.
• 7:06
  Speaker 4: He's already pre-reserved entrees.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: You sound just like a man.
• 7:10
  Speaker 4: I am a man. I'm just saying, if this is
• 7:13
  Speaker 4: where she's going and this is a feasible— So we think.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: The charges are prepay on an anniversary night.
• 7:19
  Speaker 4: He says, this is what I would like to have
• 7:21
  Speaker 4: waiting for my wife. I would like the room. I
• 7:23
  Speaker 4: would like the king size. I would like room service
• 7:26
  Speaker 4: for two and a bottle of wine when we get there.
• 7:28
  Speaker 4: And they say, okay, that'll be $ 212. Let's run your card.
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: Then what's the problem of asking him? Even though you
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: might ruin a surprise, at least you'll get an answer.
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: You don't want to look like a meddler, but, you know,
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: this is just sitting there.
• 7:44
  Speaker 5: It's laying on me.
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: And you don't have to look like a meddler. I mean,
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: I can tell you.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: I can walk you through this conversation a little bit
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: if you'd like for me to.
• 7:54
  Speaker 4: I would love for you. We would love for you to.
• 7:56
  Speaker 4: Let's do it.
• 7:57
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 7:57
  Speaker 4: We're all ears.
• 7:58
  Speaker 5: Please do.
• 7:59
  Speaker 4: Take the scenic route.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: Take the scenic route. Okay.
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: You don't want to accuse. You don't want to go
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: in on the attack. Present it with curiosity. Tell him
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: exactly what happened. I'm going through the credit card.
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: Credit card statement, going to dispute a charge.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: I came upon this. Do you know what this is?
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: And then say nothing. Stop talking and just listen.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: Is there any other evidence in your relationship that he
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: might have a girlfriend?
• 8:36
  Speaker 4: No.
• 8:36
  Speaker 5: And that's the thing. That's why I don't want to
• 8:39
  Speaker 5: sound crazy, but I don't want to be stupid. And
• 8:43
  Speaker 5: I mean, you know, you hear stories every day that
• 8:46
  Speaker 5: people say, well, I thought everything was fine until it wasn't.
• 8:49
  Speaker 5: So I hear, thank you, I hear what the therapist is,
• 8:54
  Speaker 5: because I'm really, you know, I've had this, it's been
• 8:57
  Speaker 5: burning a hole in my purse for like six days.
• 9:00
  Speaker 5: And to wait till the anniversary, I don't feel myself
• 9:06
  Speaker 5: calming down, but you said to just, ask him and
• 9:09
  Speaker 5: present him and not accuse. Cause right now I'm in
• 9:11
  Speaker 5: accusatory mode. I'm like, I understand. What is this?
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: I am too.
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: And I understand why, what you're seeing is upsetting, but
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: you haven't, you haven't done anything wrong.
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: We don't know that he's done anything wrong. And to
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: ask about.
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: An unexplained credit card charge, I don't think indicates that
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: you're necessarily being accusatory.
• 9:32
  Speaker 4: It's a common question. If it were at a butcher
• 9:35
  Speaker 4: shop that you don't remember getting a slab of ribs from,
• 9:38
  Speaker 4: you're going to go, hey, what is this?
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Did you make this charge? I didn't make this charge.
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: Why is it, you know, it's on our credit card.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: And that should not be any problem. And if it
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: is a problem, then that gives you information.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: Hmm.
• 9:53
  Speaker 5: I got you. I get it. I get it. I
• 9:55
  Speaker 5: get it. I get it.
• 9:57
  Speaker 4: Do you think, though? um do you think that there's
• 10:01
  Speaker 4: any chance that one's looking at me already I'm just
• 10:04
  Speaker 4: saying I'm listening do you think there's that that scenario
• 10:07
  Speaker 4: two is at all likely that he pre-planned this is
• 10:11
  Speaker 4: he is he that kind of guy is he a
• 10:13
  Speaker 4: sweet guy does he does he like does he show
• 10:16
  Speaker 4: his affection in sort of these kinds of.
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: Ways Despite the blinding migraine, he takes the initiative to
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: plan the wedding.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: I know, that's the part that bothers me. He's in pain,
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: but yet he's going to a hotel to set up
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: your anniversary.
• 10:30
  Speaker 4: We don't know that he went. He could have just
• 10:32
  Speaker 4: called you guys.
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: I mean, I hate to, I try to not play detective,
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: but this is, playing detective in this case is irresistible.
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: Because you know what drives me crazy is the 9 a.m.
• 10:42
  Speaker 4: Checkouts.
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: It's like, yeah, it could have been prepaid, but why
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: a 9 a.m.
• 10:47
  Speaker 5: Checkout?
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: That just doesn't seem logical to me, and again, I
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: hate playing detective.
• 10:50
  Speaker 4: But I can't help but ask that. But I think
• 10:50
  Speaker 4: you're missing something, Sarah. I think you guys are, and
• 10:53
  Speaker 4: I'm not.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: What are we missing?
• 10:54
  Speaker 4: I think that if you call a hotel and you say, hey,
• 10:57
  Speaker 4: I'm looking for this charge. There's a number here. Can
• 10:59
  Speaker 4: you pull up this invoice?
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 11:03
  Speaker 4: Are we suggesting that this man actually checked out at 9,
• 11:06
  Speaker 4: or is this just the default checkout time?
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: Or the woman that he met up with checked out
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: at 9.
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: That's the suggestion, is the.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: That his paramour.
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: Is the second entree checked out at 9 a.m.
• 11:16
  Speaker 4: Okay, so homeboy's back at home on the couch right
• 11:18
  Speaker 4: when she gets home with the cake.
• 11:20
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 11:21
  Speaker 4: And then this.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: Other person decides to just stay at the hotel.
• 11:24
  Speaker 4: She saunters out at 9 a.m.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: At 9 a.m.
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: How long were you at your cousin's?
• 11:29
  Speaker 5: I was at my cousin's for like about two, three
• 11:32
  Speaker 5: hours at tops. Mm-hmm.
• 11:34
  Speaker 4: What does your husband do for work?
• 11:36
  Speaker 5: So I was back home by midnight. So, I mean,
• 11:38
  Speaker 5: he was, he was there. He was, he was home. Okay.
• 11:41
  Speaker 4: What does he do for work?
• 11:42
  Speaker 5: Yeah. He, he works as an engineer. Okay. So, I mean,
• 11:50
  Speaker 5: he works hard, and now my head is spinning because
• 11:56
  Speaker 5: I'm trying to think about some of the people at work.
• 11:57
  Speaker 4: That's why I'm asking. Follow-up question.
• 12:00
  Speaker 5: Now I'm going to do stuff. Now you just gave
• 12:02
  Speaker 5: me something to think about. I'm trying to think about
• 12:04
  Speaker 5: the people who he works with.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: When he makes love to you, Mary, is he slow
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: and caring? Does he take his time to make love?
• 12:16
  Speaker 5: Let me say, to his defense, he's a good guy.
• 12:23
  Speaker 5: To his defense, he's always been loving and kind and gentle.
• 12:30
  Speaker 5: He doesn't rush. So if you're asking, does he rush
• 12:34
  Speaker 5: or he's trying to get it over and he's just
• 12:37
  Speaker 5: doing it as a duty? No, I feel the love.
• 12:40
  Speaker 5: I have not felt the love in him, but this
• 12:44
  Speaker 5: is just... Weird to me that it came on the
• 12:47
  Speaker 5: same night that he had a migraine. And I'm just checking.
• 12:51
  Speaker 5: I mean, had I not checked, I would not have known.
• 12:53
  Speaker 5: And so who knows, like, you know, the anniversary, maybe
• 12:56
  Speaker 5: it's going to surprise me. But I'm keeping this stuff
• 12:58
  Speaker 5: in my head. And the fact that he made a
• 13:00
  Speaker 5: charge on the night that he said he had a
• 13:02
  Speaker 5: headache and couldn't be at my cousin's party. But he's
• 13:06
  Speaker 5: making a charge at a hotel room. And I just don't.
• 13:10
  Speaker 5: I'm conflicted. with what's real and what's not. Like, is
• 13:15
  Speaker 5: this a surprise or this is a surprise?
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 13:19
  Speaker 5: So is it a good surprise or a bad surprise?
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: Could somebody else have used your credit card?
• 13:25
  Speaker 4: Thank you, Sarah. Thank you. Option three.
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: Because it doesn't make sense because also.
• 13:31
  Speaker 5: That's too many options. I don't think that at all.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: Listen, you're talking about like three hours, 20 minutes to
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: and from the hotel, dinner.
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: long, passionate lovemaking session.
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a lot to pack in in three hours.
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: And then be resting peacefully at home.
• 13:49
  Speaker 4: It's possible he just dropped it at like Home Depot.
• 13:52
  Speaker 4: Does he have his card? Have you even asked if
• 13:53
  Speaker 4: he has his card in his wallet? Because if that
• 13:55
  Speaker 4: hotel is 20 minutes from your house and someone's like,
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: I'm using this card to go check into the embassy suites.
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: You know, I mean, that could happen. Listen, I woke
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: up a couple of months ago. I woke up to
• 14:06
  Speaker 4: like $ 900 in charges that happened overnight at a Danish
• 14:10
  Speaker 4: sports book website.
• 14:12
  Speaker 5: Yeah. Okay.
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: Where'd that come from?
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: And I'm not knocking embassy suites, but I'm hoping if
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: this is an anniversary surprise, it's not there. You know
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: what I mean?
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: You're thinking more four seasons.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: Do they even serve wine at Embassy Suites?
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: Probably not.
• 14:29
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 14:30
  Speaker 4: There's that too. Mary, you may want to just, before
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: you do anything else, just look to see if that card,
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: that physical card is present.
• 14:38
  Speaker 5: Well, I would still have to ask him. No, you wouldn't.
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: I like Sarah's idea of asking first because then he
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: could say, what do you mean there's a charge? And
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: let me look at my card. And if the card's not,
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean? It gives him the initiative
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: to be responsible for his own credit card.
• 14:56
  Speaker 4: Or does it give him the extra time to calculate
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: an alibi?
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: But here's another thing. It's been six days. And have
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: there been other charges? Rogue charges, because if there aren't
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: any other bad charges, which I don't think there are,
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: I think he stinks.
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: So if you were a betting lady, you would bet
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: that he was up to something in that hotel.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: Ryan, where do you fall?
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Mary, but I think there's something not right.
• 15:22
  Speaker 4: I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt.
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: I think this guy sounds like a lovely man.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: Yes, I think so too.
• 15:27
  Speaker 5: I do.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: But I think behind her back, he might be a
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: freak in the sheets. All right.
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: Sarah, where are you at on this?
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: It's a strange story. There are a lot of things
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: that don't make sense. But that doesn't mean that it's
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: what it appears to be.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: It could be something else. It could be a stolen
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: credit card. And I hate even saying this. Could he
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: have booked this room for somebody else?
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: Oh, like a friend.
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: A client.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: Well, a friend who's having an affair. And he's covering
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: for the friend.
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: He could be doing that. It could be... He's an engineer.
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: It's not like he's in sales where he has clients
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: that he could have booked a hotel room for for
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: very legitimate purposes.
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: But the thing is, we don't know. And that's why
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: when you.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: Have this discussion, which I encourage you to do sooner
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: rather than later, lead with curiosity.
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: Tell him your concerns.
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: Don't accuse.
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: Don't accuse. And don't rush to fill the silence.
• 16:21
  Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. Interesting. I'm going to have to have me a
• 16:24
  Speaker 5: good glass of wine before.
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: I ask him.
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: At the Embassy Suites.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, go. Yeah.
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: You can tell us where they serve wine.
• 16:33
  Speaker 5: You're making me laugh while I'm feeling nervous today. And
• 16:36
  Speaker 5: I thank you for that. But I am really like,
• 16:39
  Speaker 5: because this is a weird situation. But I am going
• 16:48
  Speaker 5: to have to confront this head on and as not accusatory.
• 16:53
  Speaker 5: And then see where he goes. And trust me, I
• 16:57
  Speaker 5: will be paying attention to every nuance. that comes out
• 17:02
  Speaker 5: of his eyes and out of his mouth.
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: And Mary, you're just asking a question.
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's it. You're allowed to ask a question.
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: You're just asking a question.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: And bless you for being able to wait six days.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: I mean, that is a lot of inner strength. I
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: don't know how you've done that. It's hard to sit on.
• 17:18
  Speaker 5: It's been hard. So sweet. I was ready to just
• 17:21
  Speaker 5: slam this on the like, what is this? And, you know,
• 17:23
  Speaker 5: right off the bat, I know that's going to like. Yeah. Yeah.
• 17:27
  Speaker 4: I want to ask our therapist, Sarah, one more question
• 17:29
  Speaker 4: with you on the line, Mary. Let's just play this
• 17:32
  Speaker 4: out in the bad way, right? Let's assume that he
• 17:36
  Speaker 4: is doing this. What is it about when we're doing
• 17:40
  Speaker 4: something we're not supposed to, but we get careless? So
• 17:43
  Speaker 4: if this guy is using his.
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: Oh, he wants to get.
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, this is very sloppy.
• 17:48
  Speaker 4: Okay, but do you see this a lot? What happens
• 17:50
  Speaker 4: in the breakdown of... If you're going this far to
• 17:52
  Speaker 4: protect by getting a hotel... At what point then do
• 17:55
  Speaker 4: you get stupid?
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: Wonder if he wants to get caught. That type of self-sabotage.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: That happens. Do you think it's more common than not?
• 18:03
  Speaker 4: I think it does happen.
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: I think people feel guilty.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: I think they get worn out from carrying the burden
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: of a secret.
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: Secrets are heavy. They're exhausting. They're isolating. And I think
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: sometimes it can get, you know, too much for somebody.
• 18:18
  Speaker 4: It's almost like we see police pursuits on TV in
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: the morning. It's almost like after, you know, You've been
• 18:23
  Speaker 4: driving 114 miles an hour for six hours. Like you
• 18:26
  Speaker 4: just give up.
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: And then when they like jump out of the car
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: and they still keep running.
• 18:29
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 18:30
  Speaker 4: Where are you going to go?
• 18:31
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: You're caught.
• 18:32
  Speaker 5: Yeah. I don't know. I'm just, I mean, our, our anniversary,
• 18:38
  Speaker 5: our 10th anniversary.
• 18:41
  Speaker 4: It might be the best anniversary yet. You don't know that.
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: It could be.
• 18:45
  Speaker 5: That's true.
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: Or the worst.
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 18:47
  Speaker 5: Well.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: If something did happen, would you forgive and say, let's
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: go to counseling? I love you and I want to
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: be with you. Do you still want to be with me?
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: And if so, can we talk about this with a professional?
• 19:06
  Speaker 5: At this moment?
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: No.
• 19:08
  Speaker 5: You know, I... I mean, there's a part of me
• 19:12
  Speaker 5: that at this moment, I chunk it. And that's sad.
• 19:16
  Speaker 5: I mean, you say, well, how can you do that?
• 19:18
  Speaker 5: But I'm feeling in such a way I'm feeling conflicted.
• 19:22
  Speaker 5: I don't know. And so I see how he looks.
• 19:26
  Speaker 5: I have to see how he reacts, because if this
• 19:30
  Speaker 5: is something that he did just on the premise of
• 19:33
  Speaker 5: the evidence, I'm just like. No, like that's such an insult.
• 19:39
  Speaker 5: That's a double insult. Like you opted out of my
• 19:43
  Speaker 5: cousin's birthday. Here I am bringing you cake and having
• 19:46
  Speaker 5: you feel included. And then you put a charge on
• 19:49
  Speaker 5: the car. And then this close to our anniversary, this
• 19:53
  Speaker 5: is just– I'm about like where you said, well, maybe
• 19:55
  Speaker 5: he wants to get caught. Like, well, okay, if you
• 19:57
  Speaker 5: want out, why don't you just say?
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: Okay, let's take a step back. I think it's really
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: valuable that you're thinking through this.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: But you don't want to be in that headspace right
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: before you have the conversation with him because.
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: You're already– No, not at all.
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: No, no, it's important. It's about, I would ask somebody
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: the same question. What does this mean for your marriage?
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: If the worst case scenario is in fact true.
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: Very reasonable question.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: I'm just telling her that before she goes into the conversation,
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: take a step back.
• 20:26
  Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I, because I'm, thank you. Cause
• 20:31
  Speaker 5: now I'm thinking about what I just said and what
• 20:33
  Speaker 5: I just said to you guys. And like I said,
• 20:35
  Speaker 5: my first thing is like, you know what? And so I, No.
• 20:39
  Speaker 5: So at least I got all this over my head.
• 20:41
  Speaker 5: This is helping me. It is helping me to think
• 20:45
  Speaker 5: things through before I react because I'm in total reaction mode.
• 20:52
  Speaker 5: But now I'm thinking before I react.
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: And Mary, you're under no obligation to do this whatsoever.
• 20:59
  Speaker 4: But if you find it in your heart, however this
• 21:01
  Speaker 4: shakes out, would you please call us back with an update?
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: Yes, please, please.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: Oh, definitely.
• 21:07
  Speaker 5: Definitely. Because, I mean, I know this. I don't think
• 21:10
  Speaker 5: I'm the only person that this happens to.
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: That is one thing I can promise you.
• 21:16
  Speaker 5: I want you all to know how you helped me
• 21:18
  Speaker 5: or how you got me through this or what happens. So, yeah.
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: When are you going to have a conversation? Is it today?
• 21:28
  Speaker 5: I think it's got to be. I think that's all
• 21:30
  Speaker 5: it is. I think if I don't do it tonight,
• 21:32
  Speaker 5: the more I don't do it, the more I, like,
• 21:34
  Speaker 5: sit on this... the more my mind is going to spiral.
• 21:37
  Speaker 5: So I think it's just while this is fresh and
• 21:40
  Speaker 5: I'm in a fresh state of mind from the wonderful
• 21:44
  Speaker 5: advice that you, and please believe I understood and heard
• 21:47
  Speaker 5: all of you. I think I'm going to use this
• 21:49
  Speaker 5: while it's fresh and confronted calmly.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: Have that glass of wine.
• 21:56
  Speaker 5: Have that glass of wine.
• 21:58
  Speaker 4: Be loving.
• 21:59
  Speaker 5: Be loving. before I have to break the bottle over
• 22:04
  Speaker 5: his head.
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: Good luck, Mary. Good luck, Mary.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: Well, we will follow up with you. We will find you. Yeah.
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: We got your number.
• 22:16
  Speaker 5: Yes, you do. And I, and thank you for your help. Thank,
• 22:19
  Speaker 5: thank you. Thank you for your help.
• 22:21
  Speaker 4: You got it.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: Thanks for reaching out.
• 22:24
  Speaker 5: Thank you. Okay.
• 22:25
  Speaker 4: Bye. Uh, really quick before we, uh, she's a cool lady.
• 22:30
  Speaker 5: She is.
• 22:30
  Speaker 4: And I can't, I don't think her husband's up to
• 22:32
  Speaker 4: no good. Although you don't think he is. I don't.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: Oh, okay.
• 22:36
  Speaker 4: I really don't. I really don't.
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: Your sense is that it's not, no, you can.
• 22:41
  Speaker 4: Almost hear it in her voice. She's not the type
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: of woman that he would do that to, to be honest.
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: That's just how I feel.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 22:46
  Speaker 4: I'm not, this is a horribly shady story. Trust me
• 22:49
  Speaker 4: on paper.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: It's a strange story, but.
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: You know, strange things happen all the time.
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: Movies are made about this all the time. This family
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: thinks that the husband abandoned them, then they find him
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: dead in the woods. I mean, these kinds of stories
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: play out. All the time.
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: The guy's cousin calls and says, hey, my wallet's stolen.
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: I wanted to take my wife out. Can I borrow
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: your credit card?
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: You never know.
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: It could be a million different things.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: A million.
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: So also, Mary did say, I bet this has happened
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: to a lot of people, and I am one of them.
• 23:17
  Speaker 4: This happened to me, this exact scenario.
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: With a credit card?
• 23:20
  Speaker 4: With a credit card in a hotel room.
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: Really?
• 23:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah. So I had an ex, and I kind of
• 23:26
  Speaker 4: had suspected something, and I was out hosting an event
• 23:29
  Speaker 4: late at night. I was still in Chicago at this point,
• 23:31
  Speaker 4: and I came home, And she told me she was
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: going to bed at like 7 or something.
• 23:37
  Speaker 5: Early?
• 23:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah, very early. And then the second I walk in
• 23:41
  Speaker 4: the door, I noticed that the candle was all liquid.
• 23:47
  Speaker 4: So I'm like, I said to her, I'm like, hey,
• 23:50
  Speaker 4: unless maybe she forgot to blow it out. But I said, hey,
• 23:52
  Speaker 4: is there a reason that candle is like just put out?
• 23:55
  Speaker 4: She was acting like she was sleeping the second. I mean,
• 23:56
  Speaker 4: it wasn't couldn't have been out for more than a minute.
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 23:59
  Speaker 4: And she started crying and confessed something. that she was
• 24:02
  Speaker 4: doing this. And then that next day I went into
• 24:04
  Speaker 4: our bank statement and I found charge after charge, after charge,
• 24:07
  Speaker 4: after charge at a motel, like a, like a roach
• 24:09
  Speaker 4: motel down the street where she was meeting up with
• 24:12
  Speaker 4: a fellow teacher.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: Oh no. Did she not think you would see the
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: credit card? So did she want to get caught?
• 24:18
  Speaker 4: I don't think I ever had the login, but I
• 24:20
  Speaker 4: found the login. Like she managed the finances and.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: You found the login.
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: This is awful. I'm so sorry.
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry.
• 24:27
  Speaker 4: I'm not because like these things, I think they give
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: us character. They, but, It puts you in a much
• 24:31
  Speaker 4: better place at the end, right?
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: And you realize that you can face a really scary,
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: painful thing and be just fine in the end.
• 24:40
  Speaker 4: I will tell you, this is a very strange memory,
• 24:42
  Speaker 4: but this is the one thing from that whole thing
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: that has stuck with me. Dancing with the Stars was
• 24:47
  Speaker 4: really hot, and they did a Dancing with the Teachers
• 24:49
  Speaker 4: at their school, and she was his partner. And Ellen's
• 24:52
  Speaker 4: always said that show is up to no good.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: I think that everyone who dances together has a hookup
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: of some kind.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: Really?
• 24:58
  Speaker 4: That was proven because they were dance partners. And you
• 25:00
  Speaker 4: know what song they danced to, and I still can't
• 25:02
  Speaker 4: hear it to this day.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: Oh, no, no, no, Ryan.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: Why?
• 25:05
  Speaker 4: Shorty got them apple-bottom jeans, boots with the fur. Now
• 25:10
  Speaker 4: the whole club looking at her.
• 25:12
  Speaker 5: Low?
• 25:12
  Speaker 4: Low, low, low, low, low.
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: Oh, no.
• 25:14
  Speaker 4: She dropped it low on him at that dirtbag motel.
• 25:17
  Speaker 5: Cut.
• 25:17
  Speaker 4: And I paid for it.
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: The no-tell motel.
• 25:21
  Speaker 4: That's the one.
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: I'm so sorry.
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: I know that hotel.
• 25:24
  Speaker 4: I'm just kidding.