Latest / Crafted Connections / EP 66: Why You're Already Braver Than You Think with Julie Kratz

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EP 66: Why You're Already Braver Than You Think with Julie Kratz · Crafted Connections

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, welcome back to Crafted Connections.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: This week's episode is near and dear to my heart.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: I am Caitlin Calhoun and I interviewed Julie Kratz today on the episode.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: I will not get into how we know each other too much because I dig into that literally while I'm talking to her.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: But Julie is a gem.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: She is the owner of Next Pivot Point.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: She has had several pivots herself, and that's why she is an amazing CEO of this organization.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: They facilitate inclusive experiences.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: So everyone feels heard, seen, and like they belong.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: And that is why I love her so much.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: We have over 10 years of a connection and friendship, and I'm excited to share that with you today.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: So please dig in.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: If you've never been here and have never enjoyed the Crafted Connections podcast before, I am all about storytelling.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: I am about storytelling because I believe storytelling helps us build connections with other humans.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: And those connections turn into community and, you know, support our businesses, support our families.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a very important thing.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm out here cultivating my own network in that way, my own community in that way.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm so glad that you are listening.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: And now you're part of that community.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: Too late, you can't take it back.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's great to have you.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: And please, if you enjoy this episode, share it with a friend because Julie's pretty stinking cool.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: So you'll think so too in the next 45 minutes.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: Enjoy.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: Julie, thank you so much for joining me on Crafted Connections.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm excited to have you here.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: And frankly, I'm really excited to, I'm for so many reasons, but to dig into like our backstory because you, um, as you have with so many, have like you're you are very much a key like linchpin in my origin story, if you will.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm so excited to like dig into that.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: But uh let's talk about uh I'm trying to avoid the question, like tell me a bit about yourself.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: So let's just dig right in.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'll kind of tell you my recounting of how I met you, and then and then you can kind of uh give me a snapshot of your time, uh the time in your life that you were kind of going through uh for that.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: So weirdly enough, it's actually it's probably it's 10 years now because it was, gosh, it was so January 2016.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm working in a newspaper.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I wanted like I always wanted to be in video production, right?
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I um I attend this women's event where it's like a goal setting workshop, January 11th, I think, 2016.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and holy goodness, you know, like your workshop then like kind of set the trajectory for like me quitting my job that year, working for myself full time.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's like, you know, we're I'm coming on 10 years of working for myself because of this, like, you know, obviously I took action, right?
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: But like when it came down to it, like the mapping out the like what do you want to do by the end of the year?
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what does your year look like?
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and just like the impact that it had is so amazing.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: So isn't that fun?
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: Isn't that so fun?
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: I had no idea.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like 2016.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like I didn't realize it happened that long ago and it happened that quickly for you.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: It did.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: So and you did, and I think you did a great job in the workshop being like, this isn't gonna happen tomorrow, right?
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: Don't expect, you know, and maybe that's the magic of being in your early 20s, right?
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think I was like 23, 24, um, early to mid-20s, but like it it happened so quick.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I'm curious about your experience with not just yourself, but like clients.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I currently feel like I'm in kind of a very like she's in the mud moment.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: So like to reflect that story feels really good too, and be like, oh, maybe dreams can come true.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, like maybe I did a big thing, like maybe I already took like a big risk that a lot of people say they're gonna do and never do.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: So kudos to you.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good point, too.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good point.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: And we we don't give ourselves credit.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, yeah, yeah, and look at you now.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you're doing exactly the thing that you wrote down over 10 years ago that you wanted to do.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: And and I think that's it, Caitlin.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like, when you spend the time like giving yourself some space to like think.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I know this sounds very basic, but like be honest, people.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how often do you just like quiet your brain and just think about like check-in?
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like, am I doing meaningful work?
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: Do I feel excited most days to do the things I do?
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think we don't ask ourselves because we're probably afraid of the answers.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you can do something about it.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it's not, we don't have to accept the status quo.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: And you took a big risk.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I think finding space for that thought processing is so important, especially right now for women.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, we are in some dark misogynistic times.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: Let's just be honest.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like it is on display on a daily basis.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: So these women, I think we're kind of like like you said, in the mud, like we're kind of waiting for our turn again, and it sucks that we have to keep waiting.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: But I get this sense that we're like, all right, I'll deal with this bullshit for a little bit longer, but just wait.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like when we come out of this, we're not putting up with this crap anymore.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think it's a very good point in time where you don't have to take action right away, yeah.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: But to just sit with your thoughts, you know, grab a journal.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: I I do yoga because I can't make my brain stop.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like I go on walks and do, I have to move, I have to be doing something, which is silly for my brain to work, but it's what works for me.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: But for some people that can meditate can journal, like kudos to you.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: Find some space just to like ask yourself some basic reflection questions.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I think Caitlin, if I had to guess, I mean it's 2016, so my contents changed, but if I had to guess, probably some of the questions in that workshop were just that like, what's happening on your very best days?
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: What are your what are you doing when you like completely lose track of time?
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think one of the questions was about 10 years from now, too.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: Because even at the time I was, I was seeing someone and I was like, I could not imagine him in the picture, too.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like I remember that being like, oh, like, ooh, that's a that's a warning sign, you know, that like, you know, who you're like maybe building or intending on building life with, you know, that was really curious.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I also want to, I want to dig into your own pivot, right?
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: So next pivot point is the name of your company uh and your your work that you do.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: And at the time when, when we were, when I went to that workshop, you were you were kind of actually doing more mid-career help um and pivots for women because you had gone through one yourself.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I actually would love to like talk about that because it it goes back to like I set an intention January and I was working for myself by September, right?
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: And there's something about okay, yes, it was a risk, but like when it came down to it, I had maybe like twelve hundred dollars in bills and it was only me, you know, and and some of that was like student loans, right?
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: When it comes down to it, it it was easier in a way, but also like I I've been thinking about this a lot with my early, my early to mid-20s, my early to mid-30s, and like the energy it I felt like I exuded lots of energy in my 20s.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: And then in my 30s, it's like I'm I'm more efficient, but like, and I don't have the energy I had.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm curious about the actual like experience of working with that mid-career, you know, woman and and that act that experience.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I know like we'll dig into like where you are now for sure, but like while I'm gotcha, I'm gonna be selfish and get this information.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: I was I think I'm maybe 10 years older than you, so that was me.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I was in my early 30s when I first started the business, and I just had a kiddo, and I've you know muddled through corporate America for 12 years and just kept landing in you know, an unhappy place and kept thinking it was me until I realized like maybe it's not me.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like maybe this whole system wasn't built with me in mind.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe there's something we can do about it.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so I had my kind of own pivot point where I decided to start my own business similar to you.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like I love facilitating, I love coaching, like I love leadership and helping people.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: Always have.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's been a through line since I was a little girl.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, maybe there's something there, but it's always, you know, I don't think downplaying like the risk that you took early in your career, it's it's always risky to take these leaps and these pivot points.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: And it always feels more safe to stay in the place that's keeping you safe for the time being.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'd argue that's short term, not long term, which we're wired, you know, to prefer things that we have now versus later.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think it takes um a lot of discipline, a lot of intentionality, a lot of consistency to really decide like this isn't one, this isn't working, and two, I can do something about it.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then three, what I how my work's evolved since then is the power of allies.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're not alone, like community, mentors, sponsors, coaches, challengers, like there's no way I'd ever be in this role doing what I'm doing.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: Every pivot point I've had, it's been an ally that's like put up the mirror and like check yourself.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, I see this in you, or I see how this could be something like better for you.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: Every single pivot point.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, heck, even how I'm teaching at Indiana University now is because of a mentor of mine that asked me to do some adjunct teaching, and then it turned into a whole full-time thing.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I I think it's taking a beat, like taking a breath.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: It starts with that, like that just you know, in yoga, we spend so much time on breathing, and it helps my nervous system because I forget to stop.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: I forget to slow down.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: I don't like to slow down actually.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: And especially the this mid-career piece where you've got, you know, a lot of women have the bulk of the caregiving responsibilities, not just for kids, but for their parents and all sorts of people in their life, and the mental load and carrying the grocery list and the pickup schedule and the calendar.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, our minds are bouncing between hundreds of things in a day.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: And we are not we're not built for this.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like, this is not sustainable, this is not realistic.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't know what has to break to get people's attention.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: It definitely feels like in the interviews I've been doing on my podcast recently, like that's where people are saying, like, and we keep talking about it, like we're at this like transformative era with AI and blah blah blah, and like politically nightmare, you know, it's just like there's something that's gonna happen.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't want anything bad to happen, don't get me wrong, but like something needs to happen to be like this is broken, we need to fix it.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and oh my gosh, there's so many directions, you know, I could go from here, but I think I wanna I wanna continue that thread, but before we do, like I loved what you called out about like still to not diminish like what you have done.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think I think we we are so much more capable than we think, and we have this long list.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: If we actually spend the time sit and breathe and think through it, like we have all this long list we could come up of like things we've done that like we were the odds were against us, it sounded scary, it made us, you know, you know, expand out of our comfort zone.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my goodness, right?
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: If you actually like give yourself that time.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: And then like we're not literally as humans, we are not built to like intake this much.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then it's and then it's also because I find, and I don't want to dig too much into the into the the macro big world of it all, but when it comes down to it, there are some things I'm like, I can do I can do my best by just showing up one-on-one and just being the best person that I can to the people around me.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: And then there are small impactful things I can also do.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: And then beyond that, trying to like function as a human, thinking about and living in this doom, it's like that I just don't feel like that serves the world by me being like, I'm down and out.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for your time.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: She's back.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: I know, I'm just gonna wait this next four years out.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I yeah, I know we don't have an option but to keep going.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, uh putting a pin on what you said about making that space, like recognizing the risks that you're willing to take.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not a risk taker, so you know, when ones a lot of people would look at you and be like, that's not true, but but it is like also, I get it.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I just I wouldn't label myself that way, and maybe it's grown on me.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, had to take more risks in life.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, what's the worst that could happen?
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: But sometimes you don't have a choice, like the universe is like, gotta do it.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: This is what you gotta do.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: And not to make this all about women, but hey, you know, we're conditioned from the time we're little girls to minimize, make ourselves smaller.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: We're bossy if we speak up, you know, all these messages, and then you show up in the workplace, and it's like that's the very thing you need to do to be taken seriously by men.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so it doesn't set us up for success.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: And then I find that we're like undoing and redoing ourselves at this mid-career point because we realize like what got us here isn't gonna get us there.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: And at the same time, it's like, well, gosh, this is like really hard and it's gonna require some risk.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know, got so much going on already.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: Do I really want to take another thing on?
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I think my answer to that, I have a lot of friends right now that are grappling with you know, kind of the second wave of pivot points in their 40s.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like it does, it's it feels like it's a decade cycle almost.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, okay, let's reboot, shut it down.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: Points of renewal, and you know, I keep pushing.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: I have one friend, and she's worked her way up in the C-suite, and she's finally there, and she's miserable.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: And by the way, this is super common, right?
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: But in her mind, all the sunk cost of the time that she's put in, yeah, all the bullshit she's put up with to get there, you're finally there, you're making the big bucks.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: You're have a seat at the table, like you have teams of people that report to you.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I get the like risk-reward calculation, like you gotta do you and what's best for you.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: But like, I wonder again, like, when when does it get to be so much that you're willing to pivot?
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: And and that's that threshold is very unique to lots of people because all kind of like like in coaching, sometimes we call it like um pick the scab, which is kind of gross.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: But like, but it's also everybody knows that urge, though.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, it's like you know when you pick the scab, like it it opens it up.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: You get this scab here, like you don't seem so happy with this job, like you don't seem satisfied, and like we're like picking at the scab, and you know, people don't know.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, like as a coach, you're picking their scab, basically.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we're like trying to like hey, do you see this?
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like it kind of hurts, right?
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like, when is it gonna hurt so much that you're gonna do something about it?
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what I worry about.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, gosh, everyone's been talking about burnout, employee engagement numbers are like tanking.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, people are leaving the workforce.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't know.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: I this is where my mind is right now.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, what will it take for individuals to like take a stand or systems to be overhauled?
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't know.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but there definitely is just this vibe this year.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm picking up on a vibe of something's going to shift, like something's gotta go.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I don't know.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: If I had a future futurist, um, I'd love to hear what they think.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: And also I I I'm curious about how how often futurists are actually correct as well, you know, because it is like this is what I think is gonna happen.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and so to to to go back to the um kind of the sunk cost conversation.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: I I have two friends uh that I was, you know, actively communicating with them during their PhD.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and I remember like towards the end, I'm like, do you have to though?
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like, is it really like do you have to?
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like and like with the and and it sounds like the similar situation with the C-suite example, right?
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's like and I also I want to dig in, I want to like bring up the fact that, you know, I think a lot of women who who go through that journey of like working their way up to the sweet C-suite or working their way up to leadership, they um put so much energy and effort to getting there because they're like, when I get there, you know, not only big vests, but it's like that's where I'll be in a position of power for change, right?
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like I can make change there, but then it's like you get there and you're like, I'm so tired, you know.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like it took a long time to get here and I'm exhausted.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like now I gotta do more work than like my peers, you know, my male counterparts to like make it better when like, you know, and it is, I and I I have had that on my own experience in, you know, the male-dominated video production space where and it's like it's hard because it's like it's it's present, but people don't really it's the micro stuff, right?
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's the stuff that doesn't really like I can't point at and be like, you're being sexist.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: But but it's like when you add it all up, I'm like, oh yeah, no, it was there, you know?
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: And that's hard to like also be gaslit that you're like making it up, and then the energy of just pretending that's not a thing, hence the mid-career of me being like, What am I doing?
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like it's not just about the energy I put in and the fact that I don't have that energy as much anymore, but it's also the like, why revisit something that hurt in the first place?
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: Kind of thing.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm I'm on that, on that journey personally.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, like you said, it's like every pivot we we're evaluating like what's the sunk cost?
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: Do I even want this?
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then when you I'm exhausted.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: And then when you do like maybe step away because of, you know, and you're like, I don't care about the sunk costs.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I keep using that phrase.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know why I'm so attached to it today.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: But like when you're like, okay, I am gonna step away, uh it's like, oh gosh, now what?
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: Because you've got all this conditioning from that experience too.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: So that scary, like middle no man's land desert is like, what, what?
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: So it yeah.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that transition.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but years of conditioning, decades of conditioning isn't gonna be undone overnight.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: And what you're talking about with gaslighting and microaggressions, you know, talk about conditioning, like you're conditioned to have to do more to be taken seriously.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: You're conditioned to be underestimated.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, which I always kind of had fun with.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, oh, you don't think I can do this.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like Sarah Blakely talks about that being her greatest uh yeah, her greatest uh just watch.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, what was it?
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: Uh her greatest strength was how everybody just underestimated her.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: And so you can sneak in the back door almost.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: But like that doesn't mean that you want to, right?
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: That doesn't mean that's a good thing.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: No, but it just feels icky every time you're having like, oh, okay, here we go again.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like right.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: And also you're being sneaky, like yeah, it it's just and I think this is the pressure cooker of being like historically marginalized, you know, whether it's women, people of color, like you're just carrying again this mental load of not being taken as seriously, um, having to do more work to be taken seriously, having to justify things you shouldn't have to justify.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, I just dream of a day when I can like walk around as like John just for a day.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what would it be like?
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like, would people just stop and like serve me coffee?
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm kidding.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: But like it just I think it would feel easier.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm glad I am who I am and I'm not I enjoy, like I've always looked at like the hard work as like something I'm most proud of.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I don't mind putting in the work.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: I just don't want my daughters to have to do the same thing.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like honestly, it's like it's and I think a lot of us older millennials are like, it's fine for me, right?
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like we got through it, but there is an opportunity to change it.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: And if it didn't work for us and we had hardship with it, why would we want it to be hard for them?
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: And they're inheriting, you know, you think about future generations and like what gen alpha is gonna climate change, like all these like huge, massive issues, political turmoil, like social issues.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: There's so much of that's being kicked to them that I'm just wondering like, how do we how do we set the stage for them to?
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like, really come into the workforce and and make the changes that are needed.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because we my mom was like, You can do anything, and it's like, No, you can't.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you were quickly like taught, no, like be quiet, wait your turn.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, I just want these young people, especially teaching higher ed now.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: I teach um, you know, like 19, 20 year olds, and it's like, gosh, they have really good ideas.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what if they don't know what they don't know, but like, what if we mentored them and like helped them and let them like have autonomy earlier in their career so they didn't have to like deal with all this garbage at least to get it points later.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's like the earning uh it's like paying your dues was such a thing, right?
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like it is such a thing.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think I think it's getting better.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but I I feel like paying your dues uh really does hinder a lot of people.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's also I could imagine, I you know, I don't actually know the stats, but I could imagine it being something weaponized against, you know, marginalized folks.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just like, oh, okay.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, because I think that was honestly what was frustrating around the time I hit 30 was just like seeing how there were some peers or or the or younger people in the industry that were like in their early 20s that were just immediately taken seriously.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I had 10 years under my belt and was like considered, I was like, what?
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's it's not I've been through it as much, like I'm not any, you know, I'm just as talented or you know, capable and just as hardworking if not harder.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: And it was it was quite an experience.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you for the therapy for the first chunk of this.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know that feeling at the start of the month where you want to hit the ground running, but somehow the first week slips by, and before you know it, we're on to the next month.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: This is exactly why I host the community co-working monthly kickoff on the first business day of every month.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: We come together on Zoom for two hours to reflect on what just happened, set real intentions for what's ahead, and actually work on something that matters together.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's part grounding ritual, part focus working session, and part community check-in.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: And it's completely free.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: Here's how it flows.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: We start with 30 minutes of intention setting, looking back on the month behind you, getting honest what you want to carry into the next one, then we drop into 60 minutes of quiet focus co-working.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: Heads down, no pressure, just you and your work.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: We wrap up with 30 minutes of sharing, celebrating wins, naming goals out loud, and connecting with people who actually get it.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's community building, and it doesn't end when the call does.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone who joins gets access to an accountability WhatsApp group to keep the momentum going all month long.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: If you've been craving a little structure, a little community, or just a reason to start the month with intention instead of inertia, this is it.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's free, it's monthly, and it might just become your favorite monthly ritual.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: Link to sign up is in the show notes, and I hope to see you there.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: Because you had, you know, next pivot point had its own pivot from like helping mid-career women to to more of like the conversation around allyship.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so can you, you know, this word has I think been used and used and used um in your experience as you know, someone who does the work around allyship and works with people to, you know, how do you define that?
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and then we'll see kind of where things go from there.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: I just like how do you define the word ally?
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, because I think it is something, you know, it became a buzzword in in corporate America as well.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: So, like in your actual like experience of teaching that and and you know, facilitating that for folks and with folks, how do you actually define ally?
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, the buzzword um was very real.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like in 2021, allyship was like the word of the year from like dictionary.com.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: So it was one of the most searched words of the year.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, we all it wasn't that far ago, we remember what was happening then.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: But I stumbled upon the word, actually, it was about 2016 when I was writing my first book about men as allies.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'd been talking to women about like you just need to own your career and like lean in, you know, and like quickly realize like it's not that women aren't leaning in, like it's not us that's the problem.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's like they're not helping us.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like, there's another 50% of the population that needs to be involved in this.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: So, and I really struggled with the word.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: I tested it, I did a bunch of research on it, I did a bunch of interviews, it did like a big like we got hundreds of responses to our survey.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: And overwhelmingly, people said, Well, I don't want to like even label, I don't want the label, I don't want a word.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: So, what the word in my mind means, and why I think ally is the right word, because there's no perfect word.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like I personally like champion, but then I got feedback that that made it sound like they win again.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, you're not wrong.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: So, um, that is uh advocate, like there's all this accomplice.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't know.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if anyone wants to call themselves an accomplice.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like that sounds like you're in trouble.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: Connotation will get you every time.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like and also people's different takes on things, right?
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: And like I think we all can like with social media and everything, we all can like have an expert opinion or share our like our stance kind of thing.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so like a word all of a sudden becomes you anyone on the internet can find it, you know, come at you and and be like, This is what I think about that, and you're saying it wrong.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, okay.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: But yes, in your experience, like actually spending time with, you know, whether it be ally, champion, advocate, um what does that actually mean?
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so a long way of getting around it, like ally is the word that we've landed on for better or worse.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um lots of different ways people have defined it.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: I I think to me, it is like the simplest definition is helping somebody that's different than you, like offering support and being helpful to somebody that's different lived experience, different backgrounds, different um identities, like all sorts of different ways to look at this.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just a race and gender thing or where people's minds go.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, some of my allies will challenge me and say, you know, it's much more complex than that.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, I agree, there's nuance to it.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: I always say, like, define it for yourself.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: And like, so that's why I use like a very basic definition.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I say, you you make it better for you, like you do you.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and often what people will say is like using your power to like help someone else.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, you're actually like, I think what people want to hear is like you're acknowledging power, you're acknowledging privilege, like you're using it for good and you're sharing it.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, which actually, by the way, like goes back to the basics of sharing, like, yeah, sharing makes us all better.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: We learned this as children, and people want to hoard their power, like, there's all this misunderstanding, especially in Western culture, about zero-sum game mentality.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: And like, there's just I can understand why people think that, but it's just not rooted in actual facts or evidence.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: That what is well studied about power is it's an infinite game, it's not a finite game.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: Simon Sinek has a whole book about this, is when we share our power, we actually make ourselves more powerful.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: And we don't do it for that reason, like that's not what we're gonna do it.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's you know, performative alley ship, which that's a whole nother vein of it.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, how doesn't it feel good?
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like at the end of the day, like when you think about kind of full circle back to where we started, like when you think about what's happening in your best days, being helpful and supportive to somebody else, but probably comes pretty high up on the list.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, and that is because as a social species, we are wired to survive together in groups.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: We don't do so well on our own.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so, how do you survive in a group?
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: You prove that you're helpful to other people, and therefore you get to stay in the group.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and to to just I I love that sharing kind of I've shared this on the podcast before.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but like, you know, I've had in the last, I would say three or four years, I've had a lot of like disempowering experiences and like just been like, okay, how do we move through this?
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: How do we move through this?
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: And the times where I felt like most empowered um is like a friend is like, hey, can you watch my kids?
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: Where or like, hey, like where I can help, you know, like it's almost like even when I like maybe don't have um maybe, you know, physical resources or certain resources or like tools I can lend to people, or you know, this, that, and the other, what like I have had my time.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: I've have had my like sound mind body, right?
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: Where like I can like sit on their couch while their kid is sleeping and they're on a date night kind of thing.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like it felt so good, you know, going through a few years of like, oof, this has been tricky and tough.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: But then to be able to like, ooh, I can help you in this way, you know.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you don't have the time and you want time with your partner, I can absolutely come over.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like I just think about that experience and how good it felt to help and how they were so grateful, but that wasn't why I did it.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: It just felt good that I could contribute.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so I I hear that in like in this, right?
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's like if you can help someone who needs it, beautiful.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: Because it does feel good as a human to be able to do that.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's just um, and we know like the largest attitudinal study on happiness out of Harvard.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: I think they went back to like the 1930s or 40s and followed people around.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, we we know you know, happiness isn't necessarily a moment, it's kind of like a whole, you know, it's there's no arrival, it's a journey, not a destination.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: But um, what they found with people that you know self-reported the highest level of happiness is the number one factor was relationships, and the quality of your relationships often determines the quality of your life.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so when I think about that, what an opportunity for allyship.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like, who are your mentors?
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: Who are you mentoring?
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_00: Who are your sponsors?
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: Who are you sponsoring?
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like, who are those like challengers that you need to hold the mirror up?
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: And who are you doing that for?
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it's a two-way street.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: And this is where you know diversity, equity, and inclusion kind of get thrown into the mix because I was just talking about this as allyship, and then 2020 happened, and then I was like, You're a DEI person, like, okay, like I didn't really classify myself that way.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but that's for better or worse how I got known um in the marketplace.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: But what is the interesting wrinkle of allyship is that most people tend to perform and accept allyship from people like them.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: So it's affinity bias, it's a like me bias that most of us humans have, because again, back to like survival stuff, like when we're hunting and gathering in small groups, um, you probably were with people that looked like you and thought like you, and like it just made things like easier to have that kind of um lack of diversity or the more um that word, homogeny.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um but as things have accelerated over the last you know couple thousand years, that we've gotten to know people from very wildly different backgrounds, cultures, skin colors, gender, identities, like all the things.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so we're playing, kind of playing catch up with our brains.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like our brains are still like, you know, uh when I've done these exercises over the years, I usually have people say, like, you know, take out like this, take out your phone and like look however you keep track of your time, uh, calendar, texting, phone calls, whatever.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: Get some data.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like, who are you spending choosing to spend most of your time with?
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: Not your family, and you can't really choose that or your coworkers, but like who are you choosing?
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're like most people, it is people just like you.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's probably the same gender, it's probably the same political affiliation, it's probably the same religious, spirituality, whatever you're into, it's probably the same race, you know.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: There's a challenge with that.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we are not learning as much by insulating our networks with people just like us.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's it's a stretch though.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: And it's something I I led this exercise and then like realized like mirror, mirror, like Julie, you're doing the same shit everyone else is doing.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_00: Get better.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: And luckily I had like a very kind um ally that helped me with that and introduced me to some folks and got me to see you know different types of experiences, and I needed a little bit of a bridge, a little bit of kick, a kick to get there.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: But that's what I hope to ignite in other people because I've just benefited so much from it myself that I would love for other people to have that benefit too.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: I also the way this is why I really wanted to ask you not necessarily to define it, because I do I do love how it is like we need to look at our own lives and be like, okay, what does ally mean to me and how do I want to show up?
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: But I I do love how I think in the way you just explained all that, you are challenging the perceptions of like what an ally is.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's not just like white corporate man, right?
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, and then you kind of talking about like I needed to meet more people outside of, you know, when I look in the mirror, this is what it looks like, right?
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so you used an ally to like be like, hey, I would love to connect with your people kind of thing, and and and folks that you know to kind of like just broaden who I'm interacting with so that I'm not like just showing up with this bias.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: And whenever I like, because you know, I I I'll I'll be down on myself sometimes and be like, wow, you're so you're biased about this, you're doing that.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: I I always like I do go back to the like, okay, yes, and the reason is like my brain literally is just trying to make functioning easier, you know, and and so it's not an intentional thing, but it's like you have to put yourself in the position to learn.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and that always helps me when I'm just like being a meeny meeny pumpkin, you know, to myself kind of thing.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: So it's human.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: Bias is human.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like there is nobody that's not biased on this planet, like it's impossible.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_00: And it it's exactly what you said, it's survival again.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, too many stimuli.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: If you're paying attention, especially with where we're at, we talked about this at the beginning.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like, there's so much coming at us.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you can't pay attention to all the stuff, let alone like every detail in your environment.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: If you're paying attention to the dust on your desk and the light reflection, you know, you just cannot, your brain can't process all this stuff.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: So your brain like shortcuts it pattern recognition, part of our survival that we paid attention to the patterns that kept us alive.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, in today's world, where we're not fighting for our survival on a daily basis, our brain still thinks it is.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: So it responds to threats like emails and road rage.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you to the point where you literally you're like, this email is going to kill me.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's what your brain says.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's like this email's going to kill me.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's ridiculous.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's like, it's like the big scary like bear, you know, that's gonna come eat you in the cave.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: But you're like, okay, that's not true.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: But also it's like how to shake that and and like you said, regulate it your nervous system out of that experience or feeling.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_01: Ooh, so good.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_01: I always I just enjoy you so much.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: You like I said, it's just so cool to like to reflect on like what the last 10 years has been, and and to be like, wow, I've I've known this wonderful human for this long and I've gotten to see you do different things and like how you've shown up and and put yourself out there and it's always inspiring to me.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I would love.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: Can you share a little bit about where um all this work is in in this snapshot in time?
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um well, we are uh I think a pivot point.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to overuse them.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: No, don't like.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_01: No, I mean, isn't that the point though?
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: Because we're we're also talking over like a 10-year period, right?
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like I met you right after that pivot.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, like we had a pandemic, so there was pivoting there, you know.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then and I think you had pivoted to allyship before the pandemic.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, just because life be lifing and the universe be moving us around like we're freaking Sims characters.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then uh, but okay, interesting.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a there's a there's a pivot in in action/slash on the horizon.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I don't know what it is yet.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_00: It it's too hard with all the noise um that for for any message to really break through.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what I'm kind of waiting for, is like an ominous like what's the next step?
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: Where do we go?
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, as far as like DEI goes, for example, um, you know, I don't think the acronym survives this administration.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_00: I think most of us have pivoted to, you know, I talk about workplace culture, allyship inclusion, those types of words, which still I think are on like the no-no list.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: But um, what I know, even being in a red state with um, you know, a very involved governor in our university, that as long as we're teaching, at least from my vantage point, like as long as we're talking about things that are evidence-based, that are well researched, well documented, um, what's kind of out the window is like trauma dumping and just like you know, talking down to people, which I those things didn't really help to begin with.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm seeing like the new narrative being written about like not to water it down, like I say allyship is leadership, but it is these are essential skills to help you manage your career and be successful and for an organization to be successful.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I think I think at least what what I can speak of for me and what I see on the horizon of people are interested in this, like, is more less focused on performative stuff like training, cultural celebrations, diversity statements, and more focus on like systems.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm teaching a class right now that's like looking at the employee experience from how you're recruited and hired and retained and performance managed and coached and given feedback and making sure it's done with an inclusive lens.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_00: So de-biased systems from the get-go.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_00: So you're not like relying on heroics from people or cheroics, I should say, from all folks, is like, no, these systems are just built to work and make better decisions and to be inclusive and take you know advantage of a broadest array of talent we possibly can because we're on the heels of major labor shortages.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_00: So anyway, um, but as far as far as for me, I I think I I what I've realized in all these pivot points is there's like three things I do really well, and that's where I need to stay in my lane.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_00: When I get out of those lanes, I get exhausted.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_00: And it's constantly.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's like reminding yourself of that.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like because I all multifaceted interests everywhere I will fun.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so what am I doing?
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why?
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um and you know, when you don't have a lot of capacity, you have to be really mindful of like where you put your priorities and you know, content creation is something I'm really excited about.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_00: I love doing research and talking to thought leaders, and so you know, I'm gonna keep up my podcast, even though I don't really have a lot of time to support it.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I have a Forbes column where I I also publish research and thought leader um interviews, and so those things feel really good to me.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we do like an international allyship day every August in New York City, which is also like a really fun thing that I get to do, and just it's not like a business thing, it's just more of like it just feels good to have that community all in the room pouring into each other, and people have like got jobs from it and like made amazing connections from it, like lifelong friends, and that's just so fun for me.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then teaching, so teaching and mostly in higher ed, a few clients, but um, I really enjoy spending time with young people, uh, especially like the their passion for the things we need them to fix.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like, let's keep them as passionate as possible so that they can fix somebody's problems.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_01: No, I love that.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_01: And the pat like the passion, the passion and the energy is there, right?
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_01: And that that's something yeah, that is so essential and such like a a resource of its own.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um I really appreciate like you kind of sharing this middle point experience, right?
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like I think that is so helpful to me to hear, and like I think therefore it's helpful for folks to hear because especially like I would say like two years ago, I was in this like this valley and I was looking for examples of people in valleys, not the I was here and then it was hard, and now I'm here.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's bumpy and messy.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's not linear, and people, you know, even as like someone who specializes in story who who like has this background in like telling like a constructed story, um, using raw materials and then constructing it, right?
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's like it is, I still think it's just so important to show the raw, show the process.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think that that ultimately does make your story stronger because if it's super cookie-cutter where you go good, bad, good, then you're like, okay, well, how did you get out of the bad?
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_01: How did you move through that?
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, or or and it's like also it's like not that clean cut, it's not good or bad, right?
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: And paradox, there's so much in between, so much in between.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_01: I love that, and I love that that's where we went.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, this is so great.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so grateful for you.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um how can people connect with you?
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_01: Are you interested in them connecting with you?
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: Where can they find you?
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, kidding.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, don't talk to me.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_00: Leave me alone.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm busy.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm on LinkedIn still.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um stay, say, post something.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully, that's helpful in the universe.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_00: So just Julie Pratz, K-R-A-T-C is how you spell my last name.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_00: And then um, I also have like a weekly newsletter that I publish at nextpivotpoint.com.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_00: And you can actually get free allyship training.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_00: So we have like a video and a workbook and like a starter kit for um allyship programming at your organization.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_00: If you haven't done it yet or you're interested, you can get a freebie on the website nextpivotpoint.com.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_01: So if you enjoy this conversation, there's more on the internet for you.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_00: Tons more.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_00: There's no shortage of content out there.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_00: I can't help myself.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe that's something I need to reprioritize or or get get more disciplined about.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_00: But um I agree, this has been a lovely conversation, and I'm so happy and um so proud of your success.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_00: Ten years is a big deal.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's something.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much, Julie.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_01: Crafted Connections is lovingly produced by Calhoun Creative Consulting, a strategic storytelling firm dedicated to helping people and brands tell their stories in a way that resonates.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_01: If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and connect with us on Instagram at Crafted Connections.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_01: Keep creating, keep connecting, and telling me again.