Latest / Pod Save America / Can the Big Beautiful Bill Be Stopped?

Transcript

Can the Big Beautiful Bill Be Stopped? · Pod Save America

• 0:00
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• 1:23
  Speaker 2: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Tommy Vitor.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: I'm John Lovett.
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: And John Favreau is out this week. He's tweeting a lot.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: I actually like, there was a part of you, hey man, you're,
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: it's okay.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: He's been slack to us. Let the man have a vacation.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he doesn't, I think this, I think he's in it.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: I don't think he feels like he can let go.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: It'll be, he'll deprogram. It takes a minute. But Lovett
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: and I are here. We're going to cover the fate
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: of President Trump's entire second term legislative agenda. That's right.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: No pressure, sir. Senator Chris Murphy. Senator Chris Murphy. We'll
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: be joining us in just a minute to talk about
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: the latest with the so-called Big Beautiful Bill, its devastating impact,
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: the Republican holdouts, and what might happen when this piece
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: of shit goes back over to the House for final passage.
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: If it does. If it does.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: Right now, as we're recording this, we're recording this Monday.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: The bill's up for votes. It could pass by the
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: time you've heard this. It could have been pulled by
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: the time you've heard this.
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: We don't know.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: But either way, whether it gets stopped in the Senate
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: or it hopefully can be stopped in the House. It's
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: still about the dynamic between the ways in which it's
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: gotten much worse in the Senate.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: Much worse.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: But at the same time, becoming more antagonistic to the
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: sort of deficit hawks that were part of the problem
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: of passing in the House. So whatever happens overnight, it
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: still faces trouble. But it's shocking how bad the bill
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: actually is.
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: Shockingly bad.
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: Shockingly bad. It got so much worse on the Senate side.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: Please listen to Senator Murphy. We're going to lead with
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: that interview because it's so important that people understand the
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: stakes of this bill passing Levin and I are also
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: going to talk about the latest intelligence about Iran's nuclear
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: program and that it wasn't totally obliterated as Trump promised us.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: What a surprise that he overstated it. Then we'll talk
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: about some new immigration news swirling out there. So we
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: got it all for you. But first, joining us now
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: to talk about the voterama on Trump's so-called big, beautiful
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: bill is Connecticut Senator Chris Murphy. Senator, good to see you.
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: Hey, guys.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: So, Senator, you tweeted that 17 million people will lose
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: their health care because of the Medicaid cuts in this bill.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: How will that happen? And can you also explain the
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: impact on the cost of healthcare premiums for people who
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: get insurance through the Affordable Care Act?
• 3:26
  Speaker 4: Yes, so 17 million people lose their healthcare, both through
• 3:29
  Speaker 4: Medicaid and through people that were on the Affordable Care
• 3:32
  Speaker 4: Act that no longer will be on the Affordable Care Act.
• 3:34
  Speaker 4: I mean, that is a cataclysm. You know, that's the
• 3:37
  Speaker 4: equivalent population, I think, of like 12 U.S.
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: States.
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  Speaker 4: And that will ultimately impact everybody, whether you have healthcare
• 3:45
  Speaker 4: or not. So how does that happen? First, in a
• 3:48
  Speaker 4: whole bunch of different ways, the bill just slims down
• 3:52
  Speaker 4: the amount of money that goes to states for Medicaid.
• 3:54
  Speaker 4: So states will have only a couple choices. They'll either
• 3:57
  Speaker 4: have to cut the amount of money they send to providers,
• 3:59
  Speaker 4: or more likely, they will just throw people off of Medicaid. Second,
• 4:03
  Speaker 4: it sets up a whole bunch of bullshit work requirements.
• 4:06
  Speaker 4: It's basically just a ton of paperwork to discourage people
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  Speaker 4: from signing up for Medicaid. So it says you have
• 4:13
  Speaker 4: to prove that you're working, but it does it in
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  Speaker 4: a way that we know most people won't be able
• 4:17
  Speaker 4: to comply with. And so a lot of people that
• 4:19
  Speaker 4: are working but can't sort of prove it through all
• 4:22
  Speaker 4: this paperwork will end up losing Medicaid. And then it
• 4:25
  Speaker 4: just reduces the subsidies that we have always used to
• 4:31
  Speaker 4: help people buy Obamacare plans. And so that means an
• 4:34
  Speaker 4: additional 5 million people will now find it unaffordable to
• 4:38
  Speaker 4: get the Affordable Care Act. it's 70 million people lose
• 4:42
  Speaker 4: their healthcare, but by withdrawing all of that money, $ 900
• 4:46
  Speaker 4: billion from the Medicaid system, it just makes a lot
• 4:50
  Speaker 4: of hospitals, drug treatment centers that were operating on really
• 4:54
  Speaker 4: slim margins, unable to continue to operate. So you'll see
• 4:57
  Speaker 4: sort of mass closures in the country, likely of treatment
• 5:01
  Speaker 4: centers of rural hospitals. And that will mean that a
• 5:05
  Speaker 4: whole bunch of people who have insurance will all of
• 5:07
  Speaker 4: a sudden not be able to find anywhere to go
• 5:08
  Speaker 4: get care. So it's just a, It's an absolute moral abomination.
• 5:12
  Speaker 4: It is going to ruin our health care system for
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  Speaker 4: a lot of people. Thousands of people will likely die.
• 5:17
  Speaker 4: Many of them will be really vulnerable folks, people with
• 5:20
  Speaker 4: serious disabilities that can only get insurance through Medicaid. And
• 5:24
  Speaker 4: it's kind of implausible that a president is out there
• 5:27
  Speaker 4: saying that they're not cutting Medicaid and they are about
• 5:29
  Speaker 4: to ruin the lives of about 12 million people on
• 5:33
  Speaker 4: Medicaid today.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: So When this bill came out of the House, it
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: was terrible. And the assumption was it's going to come
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: over to the Senate. It's going to be moderated by
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: the adults in the room in the Senate. And then
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: the plan was to send it back to the House
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: to jam the right-wingers with something they would have to
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: vote for. But it feels like the opposite has happened,
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: that somehow in the Senate, the bill has become more radical,
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: more dangerous, more extreme. And it's baffling. And I think
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: We all like to pretend we're pretty kind of, you know,
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: sophisticated people. It's surprising how much worse it's gotten. Can
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: you explain the dynamic? Like, how did we get to
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: this point?
• 6:14
  Speaker 4: Because all of the moderates with any kind of guts
• 6:17
  Speaker 4: or power in the United States Senate are gone. There
• 6:20
  Speaker 4: is no meaningful moderate bloc inside the Republican Party any longer.
• 6:27
  Speaker 4: And what's happened is over the last 10 years, All
• 6:31
  Speaker 4: of the new Republican senators are straight out of the
• 6:34
  Speaker 4: MAGA wing, right? They were nominated, endorsed by Donald Trump.
• 6:40
  Speaker 4: And so they hold all of the power, which means
• 6:43
  Speaker 4: the bill gets worse when it gets to the Senate,
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: not better. And it doesn't just get worse on the
• 6:48
  Speaker 4: health care title. It got a ton worse on the
• 6:51
  Speaker 4: energy title. So already the House had stripped out all
• 6:55
  Speaker 4: of the renewable energy tax credits. But that wasn't good
• 6:58
  Speaker 4: enough for Senate Republicans. They wanted to actually apply a
• 7:01
  Speaker 4: new tax on renewable energy. They just wanted to totally
• 7:05
  Speaker 4: bury the renewable energy industry. So we never, ever build
• 7:08
  Speaker 4: another solar farm or wind turbine in the country. So
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: the bill's gotten worse on health care. More people are
• 7:15
  Speaker 4: going to lose their health insurance because of the Senate product.
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  Speaker 4: And the renewable energy industry could ultimately be destroyed. Now,
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  Speaker 4: there's a chance that we might be able to sort
• 7:23
  Speaker 4: of roll that back with an amendment later tonight. But
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  Speaker 4: right now, the bill is... even worse than the House
• 7:28
  Speaker 4: bill for renewables.
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, just to add to that, I mean,
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: there's also a new tax break for the coal industry, right?
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: And so what we're hearing is, you know, this isn't
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: just like a green energy problem. This is something that
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: this provision, this new excise tax that will kill the
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: renewable energy industry will take massive amounts of power offline
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: at a time when we've got data centers and AI
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: companies coming up that are going to need more and
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: more power. What do you think the impact would be
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: on just sort of like your average consumer?
• 7:59
  Speaker 4: So the estimates are that, you know, there's going to
• 8:01
  Speaker 4: be probably a five to 20% increase in energy prices,
• 8:04
  Speaker 4: because what this bill does is cancel renewable projects that
• 8:07
  Speaker 4: are already in motion, that are literally being developed right now.
• 8:11
  Speaker 4: You've got to be online next year, I think, in
• 8:15
  Speaker 4: order to qualify for the tax credits. And there's lots
• 8:17
  Speaker 4: of programs that are being built today. And so when
• 8:21
  Speaker 4: all of that capacity is erased, then the energy distribution
• 8:26
  Speaker 4: companies are going to have to raise rates because they
• 8:27
  Speaker 4: were planning on that supply being part of the grid.
• 8:32
  Speaker 4: So five to 20% rate increases, but also probably brownouts
• 8:35
  Speaker 4: because we just won't have enough energy in order to supply,
• 8:39
  Speaker 4: especially the hotter parts of the country. So brownouts in Texas,
• 8:42
  Speaker 4: brownouts in the Southwest, you know, we're just going to
• 8:45
  Speaker 4: lack for electricity. But I think like the most important
• 8:48
  Speaker 4: thing to talk about here is like, why is this happening?
• 8:50
  Speaker 4: Because it just doesn't make any sense to raise energy
• 8:52
  Speaker 4: prices and to have people go without electricity during the summer. Remember,
• 8:56
  Speaker 4: Donald Trump brought the oil and gas and coal executives
• 9:00
  Speaker 4: down to Mar-a-Lago at the end of the campaign. And
• 9:02
  Speaker 4: he just cut a deal with them. It's been widely reported.
• 9:05
  Speaker 4: They promised him a billion dollars in campaign contributions. And
• 9:08
  Speaker 4: he promised them whatever they wanted. And so they're calling
• 9:12
  Speaker 4: in that shit. They're saying, yeah, it's not good enough
• 9:14
  Speaker 4: to just erase the renewable energy tax credits. We want
• 9:18
  Speaker 4: to kill the industry and give us some extra help
• 9:21
  Speaker 4: as well. So that's what you're seeing, the payoff on
• 9:26
  Speaker 4: the corrupt deal that was done at Mar-a-Lago between the
• 9:29
  Speaker 4: energy industry and Donald Trump.
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: So there's a very small set of people that benefit
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: from this bill. Coal industry is one of them. Trump
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: himself needs a political win. people in the very highest
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: tax breaks, billionaires, some of the richest people in our country.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: But you have the building trade saying it'll cost 1.75
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: million jobs. You have people like Elon Musk pointing out
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: there's a gift to China. You have Rand Paul, the
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: Freedom Caucus, Musk as well, other deficit hawks saying it's
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: the biggest increase to the debt in history. Tom Tillis,
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: your colleague. went to the floor to say that they're
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: going to be punished for lying to the American people.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: Josh Hawley explained why he should be against it, because
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: it does exactly what he said he wouldn't do, which
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: is cut Medicaid. Who behind the scenes is for this?
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: Who's justifying this? This feels like zombie legislation.
• 10:15
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: Like there's nobody out there advocating or explaining why this
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: is actually a good thing on its own terms.
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, except everybody that is at Mar-a-Lago.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: I mean, like and that's kind of the only thing
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: that matters.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 10:30
  Speaker 4: That Donald Trump's world is Mar-a-Lago. The only human beings
• 10:35
  Speaker 4: that matter are the folks who pay dues and pat
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: him on the back at his club. And this benefits
• 10:40
  Speaker 4: everybody at Mar-a-Lago. The CEOs of Mar-a-Lago get a big
• 10:43
  Speaker 4: corporate tax cut. The billionaires of Mar-a-Lago. get an average $ 270, 000
• 10:47
  Speaker 4: tax cut. And so Donald Trump's constituency, the ones that
• 10:53
  Speaker 4: lobby him every day, do very, very well here.
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: And in part because of our closed.
• 10:58
  Speaker 4: Media environment today, where his base is only hearing from
• 11:01
  Speaker 4: Fox News, they don't know that much about the Medicaid cuts.
• 11:05
  Speaker 4: Because on Fox News, Donald Trump and Mike Johnson continue
• 11:09
  Speaker 4: to say there are no Medicaid cuts in this bill.
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: Two plus two equals nothing.
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: Seven.
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: And unfortunately, for a sizable portion of the country, that's
• 11:18
  Speaker 4: what they believe, that this bill actually strengthens Medicaid. Unfortunately,
• 11:21
  Speaker 4: they will find out pretty quickly when they lose their
• 11:24
  Speaker 4: health care or their hospital closes what the truth is.
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: Are you worried at all that the way they've done
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: these cuts, I mean, this is what Tillis was talking about,
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: that some of them, like the way the reimbursement changes
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: are kind of pushed off to 2026, so they've sort
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: of hidden it before the midterms?
• 11:42
  Speaker 4: I think there's some truth to that in terms of
• 11:45
  Speaker 4: when the political impact will be. But I mean, the
• 11:49
  Speaker 4: jury is kind of in on what people think about
• 11:51
  Speaker 4: this bill. It's true that maybe only half of the
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: country knows about it because they're rushing it through. But
• 11:57
  Speaker 4: when you learn about the bill, you hate it. And
• 12:01
  Speaker 4: so if we do our job and stay really focused
• 12:03
  Speaker 4: on explaining this bill between now and 2026, even if
• 12:07
  Speaker 4: all the impacts haven't gone into it, uh, effect, I
• 12:10
  Speaker 4: think it'll have an impact because the story is so simple.
• 12:13
  Speaker 4: You are throwing 17 million people off their healthcare in
• 12:16
  Speaker 4: order to afford a quarter million dollar tax cut for
• 12:20
  Speaker 4: the richest Americans. How long did that take me to say? Um,
• 12:24
  Speaker 4: 15 seconds. Uh, that's a story that I think can
• 12:27
  Speaker 4: be impactful for the midterms. Yeah.
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: I think the, the polling on the bill ranges from
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: like 19 points underwater to 29 points underwater. So I
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: feel like that's bad.
• 12:35
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: It's not great. The, the, so speaking of, uh, look,
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: we can campaign if they pass it. What is the hope? Like,
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: what is the best thing to be saying today to
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: try to stop this? Do you have any hope for
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: your colleague, Susan Collins, Lisa Murkowski, Tom Tillis is a no,
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: Rand Paul could be a no. There's a few others
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: on the table.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: What are you hearing?
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: What are your hopes?
• 12:56
  Speaker 4: You know, listen, I am not hopeless. I mean, in
• 12:59
  Speaker 4: part because, you know, had we done an interview at
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: this time in the Affordable Care Act repeal debate in 2017,
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: we would have been pretty pessimistic. There were lots of
• 13:10
  Speaker 4: people at that moment, 10 hours before final passage in
• 13:13
  Speaker 4: the Senate, that said, of course, Republicans are going to
• 13:15
  Speaker 4: pass it. This is their number one campaign and political priority,
• 13:22
  Speaker 4: repealing the Affordable Care Act. And then there was a surprise.
• 13:25
  Speaker 4: And there still are surprises left in politics, especially when
• 13:28
  Speaker 4: the American people mobilize.
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: And that's what they're doing right now.
• 13:30
  Speaker 4: These offices, Susan Collins' office, Lisa Murkowski's office, are being
• 13:34
  Speaker 4: flooded with phone calls. Tomorrow, there'll be hundreds of people
• 13:38
  Speaker 4: at their district offices. So yes, I think there is
• 13:40
  Speaker 4: still a chance that they vote no. Now, that might
• 13:44
  Speaker 4: not kill the bill permanently, but it would at least
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: force them back to the drawing board and give us
• 13:51
  Speaker 4: some more time to continue to explain to the American
• 13:53
  Speaker 4: public what's in here. So the prescription is pretty simple.
• 13:57
  Speaker 4: Just keep calling, keep showing up. This bill might not
• 14:00
  Speaker 4: pass tonight. You might still have tomorrow to make those
• 14:02
  Speaker 4: phone calls and show up to those offices. And who knows,
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: like in 2017, we might actually beat this thing.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: Senator, I think, you know, we're used to Republicans and
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: Trump lying about how much their plans cost. But what's
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: happening with this bill is kind of hard to wrap
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: your head around. I was wondering if you could help
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: explain the way they are scoring this bill and what
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: kind of precedent that might set for a future Democratic
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: or any other Congress.
• 14:30
  Speaker 4: Well, one interesting thing to say is that they have
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: now twice changed the rules of the Senate in order
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: to get their agenda passed. They did it once a
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: few weeks ago in order to try to cancel a
• 14:44
  Speaker 4: California state environmental regulation that normally we can't do in
• 14:47
  Speaker 4: the Senate. And they're doing it right now to hide
• 14:50
  Speaker 4: the cost of this bill, changing the rules of the Senate.
• 14:53
  Speaker 4: That has implications because You know, if there was any
• 14:56
  Speaker 4: question that Democrats were going to get rid of the
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: filibuster to pass really popular things, if we get control,
• 15:02
  Speaker 4: now there's no excuse not to do that because the
• 15:04
  Speaker 4: Senate Republicans are changing.
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: The rules on a pretty regular basis.
• 15:07
  Speaker 4: But what they're specifically doing is they are trying to
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: hide the deficit cost of this bill.
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: This bill will create.
• 15:15
  Speaker 4: $ 4 trillion worth of new debt for this country. But
• 15:21
  Speaker 4: they are doing a scoring gimmick to pretend that that
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: number is zero. But in fact, we know it's not zero,
• 15:29
  Speaker 4: even though they will have a piece of paper that
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: says this bill creates no deficits, because also in the
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: bill is an increase in the debt ceiling of $ 5 trillion.
• 15:38
  Speaker 4: And we will immediately start to have to borrow additional money.
• 15:43
  Speaker 4: We will actually borrow $ 4 trillion of new debt as
• 15:48
  Speaker 4: part of this bill. So yes, they will have a
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: piece of paper that says this bill creates no debt,
• 15:55
  Speaker 4: but we will borrow $ 4 trillion in new money. So
• 16:00
  Speaker 4: it'll be pretty quickly apparent that the piece of paper
• 16:02
  Speaker 4: they have means nothing. But it does help them to
• 16:05
  Speaker 4: see voters on Fox News because they'll wave that piece
• 16:07
  Speaker 4: of paper on Fox News and tell folks that there's
• 16:11
  Speaker 4: no debt increase while they are literally going out to
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: the bond market and borrowing $ 4 trillion of additional debt.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: You know, when when Tom, when your colleague Senator Tillis
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: spoke about the bill, you know, a lot of a
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: lot of the clips are around the fact that that
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: Republicans will pay because it's a lie that that this
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: is going to throw six hundred and some thousand people
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: off of Medicaid in the state. But he talked about
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: the lack of interest or awareness about the details about
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: what the bill actually does. He talked about governing and
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: that this that this is not a Congress that's interested
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: in governing.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: You're right.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: They'll have a number that they can say on Fox News.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: But Susan Collins knows that's not real. Lisa Murkowski knows
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: that that's not real. Mitch McConnell knows that that's not real.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: What is it like behind the scenes talking to them?
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: Rand Paul certainly knows it's not real. He genuinely cares
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: about deficits. Like, I don't understand how they're defending this
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: or if they're even bothering to defend this when there
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: aren't any cameras and if there's hope there in getting
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: them and what you're saying when you talk to these people.
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, this is a 900-page bill that got
• 17:16
  Speaker 4: introduced late on Saturday. Not a single one of them
• 17:20
  Speaker 4: has read it. We are just discovering as we speak
• 17:24
  Speaker 4: new things that are in the bill. I just read
• 17:28
  Speaker 4: a provision that creates a $ 100 million fund to go
• 17:34
  Speaker 4: find inefficiencies in the federal government. I'm not sure why
• 17:37
  Speaker 4: you need $ 100 million to go find inefficiencies, but it
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: looks to me just like a kind of nice sludge
• 17:44
  Speaker 4: fund for the OMB director.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 17:49
  Speaker 4: I mean, this isn't a governing party any longer.
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: This is a cult.
• 17:54
  Speaker 4: And a cult does whatever the leader says without question.
• 17:59
  Speaker 4: That is kind of the definition of a cult, that
• 18:01
  Speaker 4: you are sort of no longer interested in getting involved
• 18:06
  Speaker 4: in the rationale of your organization's operations. You just want
• 18:10
  Speaker 4: to stay in favor of the cult leader. So there
• 18:14
  Speaker 4: is no intellectual curiosity left over in this party, maybe
• 18:18
  Speaker 4: with the exception of Tom Tillis and Rand Paul. They
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: all just take orders from Donald Trump, and Donald Trump
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: has given the orders past this bill because it's good
• 18:28
  Speaker 4: for my friends at Mar-a-Lago. I wish there was a
• 18:32
  Speaker 4: more complicated answer than that, but that's just kind of
• 18:35
  Speaker 4: how the Republican Party operates today.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but that's not Murkowski, right? That's not, I mean,
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: that's a lot of them, but that's not those people, right?
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: Like those people seem like you should be, we should
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: be trying to get them. Like a big part of
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: the bill that was meant to help Alaska just got
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: taken out by the parliamentarian, right? Like this bill just
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: got a lot worse for her state. Like it seems
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: like these people should be people we can get.
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but like that's the list, right?
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: Like you might've just, you know, like read the beginning
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: and the end of the list. So that's why I'm not,
• 19:04
  Speaker 4: you know, fatalist right now. That's why, like, we are
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: literally working as we speak on the Senate floor, trying
• 19:10
  Speaker 4: to figure out new ways to convince Senator Murkowski and
• 19:14
  Speaker 4: Senator Collins to vote against this, because if they both
• 19:16
  Speaker 4: vote against this and Tillis and Paul stay nose, then.
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: This bill fails.
• 19:20
  Speaker 4: So there's still a path, but they're behind closed doors. Also,
• 19:25
  Speaker 4: as we speak, trying to find ways to potentially get
• 19:29
  Speaker 4: enough money to Alaska and Maine, So that those two
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: senators just look the other way. We'll see who wins
• 19:37
  Speaker 4: in the end. Rational thought, which I do think both
• 19:39
  Speaker 4: of those senators still have the capacity to engage in,
• 19:42
  Speaker 4: or the power of the cult.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: So, you know, folks are, you know, we're targeting Alaska
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: and Maine. Rand Paul has always been his own man
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: on kind of spending and deficit and debt questions, right?
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: Tom Tillis had to resign to find enough courage to
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: vote against his bill, but, you know, we're grateful to him.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: I saw, though, this thing will have to go back
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: over to the House side, where it will be voted
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: on again. I saw that Elon Musk just tweeted, every
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: member of Congress who campaigned on reducing government spending and
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: then immediately voted for the biggest debt increase in history
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: should hang their head in shame and they will lose
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: their primary next year if it's the last thing I
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: do on this earth. I know the primary fear among
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: Republicans is of getting primaried by a Donald Trump-endorsed candidate,
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: but that's interesting. That's a new wrinkle, right?
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know.
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: Is it?
• 20:25
  Speaker 6: I mean.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: Come on!
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: Give us something! I mean, I don't know. Didn't we
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: just have that battle between.
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: Donald Trump and Elon Musk?
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: Elon Musk lost and it's like whatever.
• 20:36
  Speaker 4: whatever his ketamine high says next week, right, will cause
• 20:39
  Speaker 4: him to forget what he said this week.
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but listen, there's still a problem in the House.
• 20:44
  Speaker 4: And the problem in the House is that there is
• 20:48
  Speaker 4: a more sizable group of moderates there that do care
• 20:51
  Speaker 4: about two things, the size of the Medicaid cuts and
• 20:53
  Speaker 4: this issue over state and local deductibility. And the deal
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: they cut in the House on state and local tax
• 20:58
  Speaker 4: deductibility got a lot worse in the Senate and the
• 21:01
  Speaker 4: Medicaid cuts got.
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: A lot bigger.
• 21:03
  Speaker 4: So you are going to have a group of semi-moderate,
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: if you can call them that, House Republicans that are
• 21:09
  Speaker 4: going to have a big problem with.
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: What comes back.
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: And Rand Paul, by sort of holding the line on
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: the deficit, definitely made it a little bit harder for
• 21:18
  Speaker 4: people who follow him and think like him in the
• 21:21
  Speaker 4: House to swallow when this thing comes back.
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: So, no, this is not done. I mean, the House
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: may have to.
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: Amend it again. They may have to send it back
• 21:28
  Speaker 4: to the Senate again. And again, every day that this
• 21:31
  Speaker 4: thing hangs out on the clothesline, it stinks more and more.
• 21:34
  Speaker 4: It gives us more of an opportunity to go out
• 21:37
  Speaker 4: and explain to the American public why they should vote
• 21:40
  Speaker 4: out of office anybody that votes for it. So any
• 21:42
  Speaker 4: delay in this thing passing makes it a little bit
• 21:45
  Speaker 4: less likely that it'll ever get to the president's desk.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: As a branding question, because since it's come over to
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: the Senate and since they've now put on the table,
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: really like dismantling a big part of Medicaid has really
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: gotten much, much worse since it's come to the Senate.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: Are we doing enough to convey the scale of what
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: it's trying to do on health care. We're referring to
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: it as massive Medicaid cuts, which is certainly true. I
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: think that undersells the effect it'll have on everybody with
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: insurance if rural hospitals don't have the resources to function,
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: if this causes a whole bunch of providers to have
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: to lay people off. Is there a way we should
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: be talking about this that conveys it more as a
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: kind of like Trump, a version of Trump care, that
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: this is a fundamental reform of the health care system,
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: that they will own all of it, all the consequences
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: over the next couple of years?
• 22:36
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a good question. I mean, it's a tax
• 22:38
  Speaker 4: on health care, right? This is the Trump tax on
• 22:39
  Speaker 4: health care. Everybody, you are either going to lose your
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: health care or you're going to pay a whole lot
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: more for it. There are only two outcomes here, right?
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: And so I think we do need to do a
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: better job of explaining that because I think it is
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: still true that 75% of the country is not on Medicaid.
• 22:54
  Speaker 4: 25% is. So that 75% probably says to themselves, well,
• 22:59
  Speaker 4: this is a Medicaid bill. I don't love that you're
• 23:01
  Speaker 4: kicking people off of Medicaid. I still like that program,
• 23:04
  Speaker 4: but this doesn't probably impact me. So I think we
• 23:07
  Speaker 4: need to do a more consistent job of not just
• 23:10
  Speaker 4: talking about the 17 million people who are going to
• 23:11
  Speaker 4: lose coverage, but everybody else who's going to see, you know,
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: probably a double digit increase in their premiums.
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: If you are a.
• 23:20
  Speaker 4: 60 year old couple in Connecticut, and you make $ 80, 000
• 23:24
  Speaker 4: a year, you are probably on the exchange. And that
• 23:28
  Speaker 4: couple will see a $ 26, 000 annual increase in their premiums.
• 23:35
  Speaker 4: 400% increase in their out-of-pocket expenses. We have not really
• 23:40
  Speaker 4: told that story, right? Because we've been so focused on
• 23:42
  Speaker 4: the people who are losing coverage. But you just shook
• 23:45
  Speaker 4: your head in disbelief that that's actually a part of
• 23:47
  Speaker 4: this bill.
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: And it is.
• 23:49
  Speaker 4: So that's a story that we have to tell. And
• 23:51
  Speaker 4: by the way, we're not going to stop telling the story.
• 23:54
  Speaker 4: If this bill does pass, we are going to explain
• 23:58
  Speaker 4: the impact on people who even retain their health care
• 24:01
  Speaker 4: throughout the rest of the year and throughout all of
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: next year. The storytelling doesn't stop.
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: One quick Iran question for you, Senator. Folks, I'm sure
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: we're watching the U.S. strike on Iran's nuclear facilities. Trump
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: said the program was totally obliterated. You got a briefing
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: last week where you said we have not obliterated Iran's
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: nuclear program. The president was deliberately misleading Iran. They still
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: have significant capability and equipment. I know you can't talk
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: about anything classified and you would never disclose anything from
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: that briefing, but can you just sort of help us
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: understand Iran's nuclear capability as you know it after the
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: Israeli and U.S. military campaign?
• 24:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and a lot has been publicly reported, so I
• 24:41
  Speaker 4: certainly can talk about that.
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: There's no doubt we.
• 24:45
  Speaker 4: Set back their nuclear program because They just don't have
• 24:48
  Speaker 4: working research sites. But there has been publicly available satellite
• 24:53
  Speaker 4: imagery that shows that the Iranians are actively excavating, digging out,
• 24:59
  Speaker 4: and recovering material from both of those sites. And the
• 25:02
  Speaker 4: public reporting has been pretty clear that Iran still has centrifuges.
• 25:09
  Speaker 4: Iran still has enriched uranium up to the 60% level.
• 25:14
  Speaker 4: And Iran still has scientists that know what to do
• 25:17
  Speaker 4: with the centrifuges and with the enriched material. So if
• 25:21
  Speaker 4: you have those three things, centrifuges, 60% enriched uranium, and
• 25:26
  Speaker 4: scientists who know how to build what are called the cascades,
• 25:30
  Speaker 4: the connected centrifuges that allow you to move 60% enriched
• 25:34
  Speaker 4: uranium to 90% enriched uranium, then you are definitely only
• 25:38
  Speaker 4: months away from being able to rebuild that program. You
• 25:40
  Speaker 4: have not obliterated that program. And so that's just the truth.
• 25:45
  Speaker 4: And it is dangerously misleading for the president or Republicans
• 25:49
  Speaker 4: to use terms like obliteration.
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: What is more.
• 25:52
  Speaker 4: Dangerous is that we were at the table negotiating a deal.
• 25:56
  Speaker 4: And the only way to get Iran permanently off a
• 26:01
  Speaker 4: path to a nuclear weapon once they have all of
• 26:03
  Speaker 4: that equipment and once they have all that knowledge is
• 26:05
  Speaker 4: a diplomatic agreement. And we were literally at the table
• 26:08
  Speaker 4: with them. We interrupted those negotiations. And there's no guarantee
• 26:12
  Speaker 4: that we will ever get back because we have scrambled
• 26:15
  Speaker 4: Iranian politics to the point where they might not now
• 26:18
  Speaker 4: be able to make those concessions that they could have
• 26:20
  Speaker 4: made before the United States and Israel struck them. So
• 26:24
  Speaker 4: we have made the Iranian threat in the medium and
• 26:27
  Speaker 4: long term worse, even though in the short run, in
• 26:32
  Speaker 4: the next three or four months, we did destroy their capacity.
• 26:36
  Speaker 4: And so that's the story that we have to tell.
• 26:39
  Speaker 4: And though I can't disclose anything I've heard behind closed doors,
• 26:42
  Speaker 4: the public reporting has been very clear.
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: We didn't get everything.
• 26:46
  Speaker 4: And if we didn't get everything and we don't have
• 26:49
  Speaker 4: a negotiating table, that's not good for the United States.
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: And frankly, that's not good for Israel.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: I believe the Israelis killed the political leader overseeing the negotiation.
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: So correct. Not coincidentally.
• 26:59
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: Well, I don't know, Senator Murphy. Keep talking like this.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: You're not going to get a statue in the $ 40
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: million Garden of Heroes, which is also included in the bill.
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: Included in the bill.
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: A new Garden of MAGA Heroes, $ 40 million. We're going
• 27:15
  Speaker 4: to kick kids off of their nutrition benefits, but we're
• 27:18
  Speaker 4: going to get a statue of Andrew Tate.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: Jesus Christ.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: What a time to be alive. Senator, thank you so much.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Senator Murphy.
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: Appreciate it.
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: All right, we're going to take a quick break, but
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: two quick things before we do that. If this reconciliation
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: bill passes, the Senate is going back to the House
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: and you can make a big difference there. Go to votesaveamerica.com
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: to find out how to take action. Also, love it.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: Lowly seeking asylum north of the border.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, that's right. We're going to Just for Laughs
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: in Montreal. Just for Laughs is back and Love to
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: Leave is going. We'll be there on July 24th. You
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: can get those tickets at crooked.com slash events. We're gonna
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: have an amazing lineup of guests that I'll tell you
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: about later because I'm going on vacation.
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: Okay, great. Grab tickets now at crooked.com slash events.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: Pod Save America is brought to you by Helix. I
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• 28:59
  Speaker 1: just heard from Senator Chris Murphy, despite Trump's claims to
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: the contrary, there is growing evidence that the U.S. strikes
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: over a week ago did not, in fact, completely and
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: totally obliterate Iran's nuclear program.
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: So Rafael Grossi, the head of the IAEA, the International
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: Atomic Energy Agency, told CBS News that Iran could begin
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: producing enriched uranium in, quote, a matter of months. The
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: Washington Post also reported that the United States has intercepted
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: private communications between senior Iranian officials, which revealed that the
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: attacks were not as destructive as the Iranians thought they
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: would be. White House Press Secretary Caroline Leavitt called the
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: Post reporting shameful and said, quote, the notion that unnamed
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: Iranian officials know what happened under hundreds of feet of
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: rubble is nonsense. I love that her position is that
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: President Trump has Perfect visibility into that pile of rubble,
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: but the Iranians who live there do not.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: Right. I feel like if anybody knows, maybe nobody knows,
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: but how do we know?
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: It wouldn't be us.
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: Presumably the way we would find out without being there
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: was from what.
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: They were saying. We're spying on them. Right. That's why
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: we're spying on them. Yeah.
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: Although it does look kind of like they're sort of
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: standing around a microphone just being like, ham it up,
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: say how bad it was.
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: I mean, they all know.
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: They're being fucking bugged.
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: That's 100% a possibility. But as always, Trump, and by
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: extension his administration, have responded not by admitting error, but
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: by doubling down, including threatening journalists and Democrats. Trump talked
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: about all of this in an interview with Fox News'
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: Maria Bartiromo that aired on Sunday. Here's a clip.
• 30:37
  Speaker 5: We call it the 12-day war. That was an intensive war.
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: You tweeted, the Democrats leaked an intelligence.
• 30:43
  Speaker 5: They should be prosecuted. Who specifically? Do we know who
• 30:46
  Speaker 5: did it?
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: Were you able to find out?
• 30:47
  Speaker 5: We can find out. If they wanted, they could find
• 30:49
  Speaker 5: out easily. You go up and tell the reporter, national security,
• 30:53
  Speaker 5: who gave it? You have to do that. And I
• 30:56
  Speaker 5: suspect we'll be doing things like that. Enrichment doesn't mean
• 30:59
  Speaker 5: like air conditioning and it doesn't mean to.
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: Jack up your car.
• 31:03
  Speaker 5: Enrichment is a bad word.
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: I love when he explains. Enrichment doesn't mean the dumbest
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: possible explanation in this context. It means something bad.
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: I also hadn't realized he was trying to brand it
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: as the 12-day war. You don't like it? He wants
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: it to be a big part of history, so he
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: feels like six days war, now there's a 12-days war.
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: Not working for you?
• 31:21
  Speaker 4: No.
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: If you were a reporter, how nervous would you be
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: about those threats? I think it's serious.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: I think it's really scary.
• 31:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: And it depends on what they do, but I was
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: remembering you had Judith Miller went to jail for 85
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: days because she refused to reveal her source until Scooter
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: Libby came forward. Matthew Cooper, journalist at Time, almost went
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: to jail, but then Karl Rove came forward and said
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: he was the source. At that time, that was a
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: serious prosecutor named Patrick Fitzgerald who was appointed by James Comey,
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: who was appointed by James Ashcroft, who had recused himself
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: because he was too connected. I mean, this is how
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: far we've fallen. James Ashcroft recused himself because he was
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: too connected to Karl Rove and the Bush White House.
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: They were trying to show restraint, show that they had integrity,
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: that they were beyond reproach. And even then, they went
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: after a journalist in a way that was, I think, deeply,
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: deeply wrong. They threw Judith Miller, who has a lot
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: of problems with her reporting, but they threw Judith Miller
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: in jail, even though she said she wouldn't speak, for
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: 85 days until Scooter Libby agreed. And they can claim
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: it was an intimidation, but of course it was. He
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: wouldn't have come forward if she hadn't been thrown in.
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: In jail, look, you know, people were critical of Eric
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: Holder when they went after James Rosen.
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: So in the Obama administration, people who leaked classified information
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: were prosecuted. And those prosecutions included the subpoenaing of records
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: from members of the media, including like metadata, I think,
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: from James Rosen, who was a Fox News reporter who
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: got a leak about North Korea from someone at the
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: State Department. But Obama, I think, was very clear that
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: he did not support charging journalists. And that even extended
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: to WikiLeaks and Julian Assange, because the concern was if
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: you charge Julian Assange and you set a precedent, that
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: could then be applied to the mainstream media. Now, Obama
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: didn't create a precedent, but Trump later prosecuted Assange in
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: 2019 with like 17 counts of espionage. But then in 2024,
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: it seemed to suggest that he'd consider pardoning Assange. So
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: who knows where he is on this?
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: The point is that when the Obama DOJ was going
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: after a leak, they called Rosen, a co-conspirator, just to
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: get at his information. The DOJ also gathered the information
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: from AP reporters to get at a different leak around
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: a Yemen plot that the CIA had foiled. And then
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: ultimately Holder basically said, we will never put a journalist
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: in jail. It was a good thing. But all of
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: that is a way to say, Eric Holder, Patrick Fitzgerald,
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: James Comey, these people have been replaced by Kash Patel,
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: Pam Bondi, people with zero integrity. So you had a
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: time when Journalists were getting locked up for an investigation
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: into something that could look a lot like this under
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: people that, as much as I dislike them, had more
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: scruples than fucking these yahoos will ever have. So it
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: is a genuinely scary prospect if they actually start looking
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: into it.
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I would be. quite nervous, to be honest. I
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: did notice that Trump just dropped his lawsuit against Ann Seltzer,
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: the longtime Iowa pollster who released a poll on November 2nd.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: Good for him.
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: Good for him. Remember, her poll had Kamala winning 47-43.
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: That Ann Seltzer poll ended up being off by 16 points,
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: and then Trump wanted to sue her, I think, claiming
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: election interference, and they just dropped it today out of nowhere.
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's frivolous and ridiculous. So I wonder why, why
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: on that one case, they decided maybe they're just, I
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: don't understand. There's no meat on that bone. I understand
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: why he's going after parents. I understand why a frivolous
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: lawsuit against CBS has a place to go for him.
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: A frivolous lawsuit against ABC has a place to go
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: for him. There's wins that he can get. What are
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: you trying to eke out from the Des Moines register?
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: What are you trying to get out of Ann Seltzer?
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: It's stupid.
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: Made no sense. In a Truth Social post on Saturday,
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: Trump appeared to leverage military support for Israel, which Republicans
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: and some Democrats always say is sacred. in order to
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: pressure Israel to quit its, quote, witch hunt into Netanyahu's
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: corruption scandals. That's Israeli Prime Minister Bibi Netanyahu. He is
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: currently standing trial for charges of bribery, fraud, breach of
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: trust in these three separate cases that are kind of
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: folded together. Not long after Trump's post, Israeli courts canceled
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: this week's hearings in the case. They did so at
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: Netanyahu's request, but the details explaining why are classified. On
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: Saturday night, Trump posted about the Gaza hostage deal or
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: trying to get a Gaza hostage deal as well. Love it,
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: the kind of like 4-D chess explanation for Trump suddenly
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: posting on Truth Social that Netanyahu's corruption trial should go
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: away as he thinks alleviating the political pressure of jail
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: time could give Bibi the political space he needs to
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: cut a ceasefire deal and not worry about his government collapsing.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: Do you buy that or is he just sympathetic, sympathy
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: for all the corrupt dictators out there?
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: No, I do not buy that.
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: In fact, so.
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: The good rule of thumb, the stupidest explanation is usually
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: the correct one. An official told Axios, the president read
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: in an article that Bibi had to be in court
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: on Monday and thought it's crazy. He identified with what
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: Bibi is going through and decided to write something about it.
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: It seems to be, I mean, look, they could all
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: be full of shit.
• 36:18
  Speaker 5: Who knows?
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: Some of this could, maybe there's a phone call where
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: sort of Bibi ensorcelled Trump with the stories of how
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: hard it is for him to both face this trial
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: and get this deal done. We have no idea. But basically,
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: someone close to Trump is saying he read an article,
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: thought it was stupid, identified with it, did the post.
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: So that to me feels, unless proven otherwise, that to
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: me is the most plausible explanation.
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: I love identified with it. The things, some of the
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: things that Netanyahu was on trial for are just like
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: so venal. I mean, so there's, they virtually were numbering
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: the cases. Like Case 1000 said that Netanyahu and his
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: wife accepted like a couple hundred thousand dollars worth of
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: gifts like cigars, jewelry, and champagne in exchange for political favors.
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: There's another case, Case 2000, that Netanyahu is accused of
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: trying to harm. He was talking to some publisher of
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: a newspaper and told that publisher that he would harm
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: his rival newspaper in exchange for good coverage. There's another case,
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: Case 4000, where Netanyahu allegedly provided regulatory help to a
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: telecom company in exchange for favorable coverage for him and
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: his family by the owner of that telecom company's news website.
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: So it's just like there's just so much coverage. crap
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: that this guy is accused of. He's just such a
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: corrupt piece of shit.
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Maybe it's so obvious it isn't worth saying, but
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: Benjamin Netanyahu, he does not disentangle his personal interests with
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: the interests of his country. Donald Trump does the same.
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: And by the way, the leadership of Iran does the
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: same thing. They are not doing what is in the
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: interest of the Iranian people when they pursue this program.
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: It's just a group of fucking egomaniacs battling it out.
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: And the stakes are life and death. And a lot
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: of people die. And a lot of people suffer because
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: these three people are in charge. And that's whatever comes
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: of this. The fact that these countries are led by
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: two of the most corrupt leaders in any democratic or,
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: you know, democratish country on earth. And they're sort of
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: negotiating across from despots in Iran and puts everyone in
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: those two countries, in all of our countries, everywhere at
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: risk because, you know, we live in fucking hell.
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: There's also a very weird political story about some State
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: Department political appointee proposing that they use taxpayer money to
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: help Marine Le Pen appeal her conviction for embezzling funds.
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: For those who don't know, Marine Le Pen is this
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: far-right French politician. Her national rally party, some of the
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: founders of it were literally Nazis, like former Waffen-SS leaders.
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: members or Vichy French people. It's just very weird things
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: happening in our government right now. Yeah.
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: Like that's a small example, but it's a big deal
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: that JD Vance goes to Germany and excoriates them for
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: not welcoming like what came after Nazis, the sort of
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: the neo-Nazi representative to back to the fold meets with them, right?
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: Like these people do not see themselves as leaders of
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: all of us, as leaders of nation. They are leaders
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: of a right-wing movement and the people that believe in
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: that movement, no law can hold them for the rest
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: of us, we don't matter. To showcase your offerings and
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• 40:42
  Speaker 2: All right, let's talk about some immigration news. So as usual,
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: there's a lot happening here. As you're listening to this,
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: President Trump is headed to the so-called Alligator Alcatraz, this
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: new migrant detention facility being built in the middle of
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: the Everglades, just to be as cruel as humanly possible
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: to the people who may be imprisoned there. We also
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: have a story about Kristi Noem padding her income as
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: governor of South Dakota by pocketing some of the donation
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: money she solicited for a nonprofit dedicated to advancing her
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: career and raising her profile. But the biggest news is
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: is that on Friday, the Supreme Court ruled in the
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: case on Trump's birthright citizenship order, which really became a
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: case about whether federal judges can order nationwide injunctions. The
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: justices ruled six to three that judges cannot put nationwide
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: holds on laws and actions they think are unconstitutional. Lovett,
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: I know you talked to our buddies over at Strict
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: Scrutiny about this last week. What does this mean for
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: this sort of underlying question about Trump's EO ending birthright citizenship?
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: So in terms of how the court will rule, they
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: did not rule on the substance of the birthright citizenship case.
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: But in practice, this ruling is incredibly dangerous, not just
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: on this, but on a host of other issues, because
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: basically what it is saying is if, let's say, the
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: Trump administration picks somebody up and says they're not a
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: citizen because of birthrights, they don't have birthright citizenship, begins
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: deportation proceedings, they sue, they get it stopped by a judge.
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: They can pick up another person who has the exact
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: same profile, exact same set of facts, and it can't
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: be stopped because every person, I guess, needs to go
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: out and get a lawyer to sue if they are
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: being mistreated by the Trump administration, if the Trump administration
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: is brazenly violating the Constitution. Now, Kavanaugh says, well, actually,
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: there is a mechanism because you can do class actions.
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: And so immediately the legal organization fighting birthright citizenship had
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: that in the can. They started the proceedings to create
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: a class and that might be able to mitigate it
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: in some cases. But then you have Alito coming back
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: and saying, now don't get too fancy with these class actions.
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: We're watching that too. You can't use class action lawsuits
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: to achieve the same end, which is nationwide injunctions. The
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: bottom line is we have no idea what the impact
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: of this will be. It will cause a bunch of chaos. Now,
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: on birthright citizenship and a host of other issues, injunctions...
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: on brazenly unconstitutional orders was one of the key ways
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: we were able to slow the Trump administration or stop
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: the Trump administration in its tracks. But it's worth putting
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: together what's happening with the big, beautiful bill and what
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: happened at the court. Because Donald Trump loves complaining about
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: woke liberal judges. Stephen Miller loves complaining about woke liberal judges.
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: But when Stephen Miller and Kristi Noem went down to
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: go meet with the field directors at the Department of
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: Homeland Security at ICE, He was saying how they needed
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: to do more. They need to arrest more. And what
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: they were hearing back from the actual people on the
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: ground implementing this policy is that the resource limited, that
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: they don't have the resources to do all this, that
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: some of the agents don't feel it's their responsibilities. The
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: other feels strapped. The big, beautiful bill, along with cutting
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: taxes for rich people, along with doing health care cuts,
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: along with raising electricity costs, has a big chunk of
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: money to unleash ICE, to fund detention centers, to fund
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: mass deportations. And so the combination of the court saying
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: that the only court that can adjudicate the constitutionality of
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: what Donald Trump is doing is the Supreme Court, and
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: the fact that they're about to be, if this bill passes,
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: get a bunch of resources, means there will be very,
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: very little that people can do in the short term
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: to fight back, that it will unleash what the Trump
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: administration wants to do on mass deportation. So it's extremely dangerous.
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: It'll be dangerous on immigration and a host of other,
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: a whole set of other issues.
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: What if the.
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: Starts coming after gay and trans people. The administration starts
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: coming after all kinds of rules around healthcare access and
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: religious objections. Whatever it may be, there is going to
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: be a ton of rules that the Trump administration puts
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: in place, and we have very few ways to stop
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: it nationally until it reaches the Supreme Court.
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and just on the deportations, I mean, there's this long,
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: I think it was the New York Times piece about
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: how the State Department is spending most of its time
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: just pushing countries to take deportees, usually it's places like
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: Libya or South Sudan, like places that are as scary
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: and as dangerous as possible because they think that will
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: somehow serve as a deterrent. And on the injunction piece,
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: Jonathan Van Last at the Bulwark had a smart piece
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: on this ruling last week, I believe, and the likelihood
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: that this could lead to patchwork rulings and kind of
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: de facto different federal law in different places because there's
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: different interpretations of the constitution in different places. So you
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: could basically have red state laws and blue state laws.
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: And that means suddenly it's really, really important where you
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: live because your rights and freedoms as guaranteed by the
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: constitution could be determined by the shittiest judge close to you.
• 45:40
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: It's, um, you know, it's, it's one of those things
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: where it's hard to talk about because it is really
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: just very bad news. Um, and I was talking about
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: this with Leah Lipman and with Melissa Murray who hosts
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: strict and, um, First of all, they pointed out that pressure,
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: that drawing attention to what the judiciary does has an impact.
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: They see it, they feel it, they respond to it.
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: But the other part of it is, I'm not a
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: fan of like, you know, you want to heighten the contradiction, right?
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: You want to like kind of, you know, like accelerationist,
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: like let's have people experience how bad Trump can really be.
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: I don't believe in that because I think for the
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: same reason, I think we need to stop this bill.
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: We should try to stop bad things and try to
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: do good things and figure out the politics after. But
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: Trump has been protected. You know, they blame the woke judges,
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: but Trump is protected when his worst and most unpopular
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: policies are stopped by judges, right? This whole thing about
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: calling Trump, you know, taco, all these people, Democrats being like,
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: Trump's chickening out, chickening out. When Trump doesn't do stuff,
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: people love it. And they think, oh, you know, Donald Trump,
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: he sounds crazy, but he always chickens out. He always
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: moderates things. It's never as bad as these liberals say
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: it's going to be. Well, the liberal judges are no
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: longer going to stand in Trump's way. He's going to
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: do what he wants to do. The only people that
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: will be able to stop him at a national level
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: is the Supreme Court. And that means we are going
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: to live with the consequences of what Donald Trump actually
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: wants to do. And I think we will start to
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: see more blowback because of it. I don't want to
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: live in that world, but it's the world we're.
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: Going to live in. No, I feel I have similar
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: feelings on Iran. Like, obviously, I don't want Iran to
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: have a nuclear weapon. I don't want the United States
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: to get sucked into some extended, awful regime change war
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: Middle East. But there is this feeling right now, I think,
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: that bombing Iran was cost-free, that is based on the
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: kind of compressed day-to-day, hour-to-hour news cycle and the way
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: we judge events that I think is completely underappreciated, or
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: at least not calculating the odds increasing that they will
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: eventually get a nuclear weapon, or that they will respond
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: to the United States or Israel with some sort of
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: terrorist attack, whether it's directly or through proxies, or that
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: there could be some awful second or third order consequences
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: to what happened, like more nuclear proliferation everywhere. So I totally,
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: it's a huge challenge.
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: And, but it's also what happens the next time the
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: US is negotiating with a country and they don't trust
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: us because when Donald Trump said you have two weeks,
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: he was already planning to bomb someone. Like what we're
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: talking about today, whether it's on all of these issues,
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: you know, they put the huge Medicaid cuts two years out, right?
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: They have these things sunset so they can claim it's cheaper,
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: but they plan to extend them forever. They give money
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: to coal companies now and cancel clean energy projects in
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: the future. Everything about Trump, and there's a point, yeah,
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: Ezra Klein makes this often, which is that Trump borrows
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: from the future. He spends our credibility. They're literally borrowing
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: trillions of dollars to pay for tax cuts for the rich.
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: They're going to fuck up clean energy for the next generation.
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: With this bill.
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: Why? What, to get a quick hit for some coal companies,
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: for some billionaires right now, to give himself a quick
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: political win before the July 4th holiday. Same thing with Iran, right? Like, oh,
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: you know, a 48-hour story about how he feels tough
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: because he saw Bibi was getting good press, so now
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: he wants to bomb Iran. Who's going to want to
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: trust us? Who's going to trust our word going forward?
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump borrows against the future, and we will pay
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: in the long run whether we admit it or not.
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: So with these nationwide injunctions off the table for now,
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: a bunch of Trump policies are likely going to go
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: into effect right away. One of those is from Friday.
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: Trump is going to end temporary protected status or TPS
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: for immigrants. from Haiti. This was a big campaign promise.
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: It was centered infamously on his lie that Haitian immigrants
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: were eating pets in Springfield, Ohio. In the announcement, the
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: Department of Homeland Security said, quote, the environmental situation in
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: Haiti has improved enough that it is safe for Haitian
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: citizens to return home. Cannot overstate how much that is
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: a lie. This might be news to anyone who's actually
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: been keeping track of what's happening there. According to an
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: AP tally last year, more than 5,600 people were killed
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: in gang violence. And from January to March this year,
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: another 1,600 have died. The idea of deporting someone back
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: to Haiti right now is so unimaginably cruel. It's kind
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: of like hard to wrap your head around it. I
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: guess this is all just part of the Stephen Miller deterrence.
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: I'm sure there's just a big bunch of racism in there, too. Well,
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: it's not even deterrent.
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: These people are here legally. They're following the rules. Like
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: this is an attack on legal immigrants. And look, they
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: have a, I think they have, I think it's in part,
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: it's largely racist, right? They don't seem to have a
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: problem with immigrants from certain countries, but have huge problem
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: with immigrants from others. But they have an ideological problem
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: with temporary protective status because they don't view it as temporary, right?
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: People are granted this status and it's from countries that
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: are in turmoil. That turmoil does not go away in
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: a matter of months or if not years. And so
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: people end up having a status that allows them to
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: stay in the country for a long time. If you
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: want to reform that system, propose some laws. You want
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: to reform that system over the time. But they don't.
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: They're not disciplined. They have no long-term plan. They're not governing.
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: They just want to exact a pain. And so they're
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: going to punish these people who basically did what we
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: told them to do.
• 50:53
  Speaker 5: They applied.
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: They had temporary protection status.
• 50:55
  Speaker 4: They came.
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: They built life.
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: They support local economies. Their kids go to school here.
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: Their kids are sometimes born here. They become citizens. And
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: so they're going to punish these people because they don't
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: believe in this program. And it will start here, but
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: it won't end here because they're going to go after
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: all kinds of other illegal immigrants.
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: So in Haiti, though, like, let's just, I want to
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: double stand this. Like in Haiti, we're talking about levels
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: of violence that you rarely see outside of active war zones.
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: Like gangs, armed groups, they control 85% of the capital city, Port-au-Prince.
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: Last year, there were bloody massacres where like 130, 250
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: people were butchered with machetes in these like, you know, pogroms.
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: A million people have been displaced. The government services have
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: just completely collapsed. There's no security. And we're going to
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: start deporting people on September 2nd back to that. Similar
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: situation in Venezuela where 350,000 people are losing TPS. Venezuela,
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: it went from being the richest country in South America
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: in the 70s and 80s to the poorest or one
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: of the poorest. Obviously, most of the blame lies with
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: Hugo Chavez and Nicolas Maduro, the current president. But The
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: United States is sanctioning the shit out of that country.
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: We are crushing their economy. We have been for years
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: under a bipartisan group of presidents. And as you said,
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: the Biden administration created a process to allow Venezuelan migrants
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: to come to the U.S. legally. They followed the rules.
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: And now that's being ripped away from them. And these
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: people are just going to be sent home or anywhere
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: or to Libya. We don't know.
• 52:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: There was a time, too, when conservatives viewed people that
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: fled as left-wing governments were politically valuable, that they were
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: people you welcomed because they were refugees from a system
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: you despised. You didn't hold them responsible for the sins
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: of governments you didn't agree with. But their first order
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: is getting rid of immigrants, legal immigrants, undocumented immigrants. That
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: is their goal. That is their agenda. The rest is
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: immaterial to them. This is an ad by BetterHelp. Work
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• 54:11
  Speaker 2: Another move that's even weirder or scarier, it's getting less attention,
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: is there's this internal DOJ memo issued by the Assistant
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: Attorney General in charge of the Civil Division. This was
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: from early June. It was reported out by the New Republic.
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: And it says, it sort of lays out what the
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: division's top enforcement priorities should be. One of the items
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: on the list is prioritizing denaturalization. It then listed out
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: 10 categories of naturalized citizens who should be targeted for
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: losing their status, including people they deem to be national
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: security threats or who committed fraud or have gang ties
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: and people who lied during the naturalization process as determined
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: by the officials at this deeply partisan and politicized Trump agency.
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: This is incredibly ominous given that we've already seen this
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: administration throw people in jail for attending a pro-Palestine protest.
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: for signing an op-ed in support of Palestinian rights. If
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: suddenly like we're just gonna denaturalize someone for vague, quote unquote,
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: natural security concerns.
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: So Andy Ogles, who's a Republican congressperson, he posts that
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: Zoran Mamdani, who just won the primary in New York,
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: if he didn't disclose his advocacy for something on a
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: citizenship reforms, he lied when he became a US citizen.
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: If he omitted that, he faces deportation. If what happens now,
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: is any person who is a citizen of the United States,
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: a naturalized citizen of the United States, if they upset
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: the regime, if they say something that a guy like
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: Andy Ogles doesn't like, if they take a politically unpopular position,
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: if what happens then is a group of political hacks
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: in the Trump administration then start going and pulling forms
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: and looking for any inconsistency, what that says is, if
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: you say something we don't like, your citizenship is in doubt.
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: And if your citizenship is in doubt, your rights as
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: an American, that's it. If your citizenship is fungible, your
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: rights are fungible. It is so dangerous. And so obviously
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: their next move, once they move on from grabbing people
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: like Mahmoud Khalil off the streets or others off the streets.
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: Columbia student who was a leader of pro-Palestinian protests. And
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: this is the slippery slope. This is the dangerous path, right?
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: Because suddenly American citizens will not feel safe to speak
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: their mind if they weren't born here. Because like any
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: of us, this is why an audit sucks even if
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: you follow the rules. You go into anybody's file, you
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: go through everybody's file, you're going to find a mistake,
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: you're going to find something, you can find something and
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: trump it up. That's what makes it so dangerous.
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, the allegations against Zohra Mamdani are based
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: on rap lyrics he wrote in 2017. Like, what are
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: we talking about? And Caroline Levitt got asked about this
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: today at the White House press briefing. She said, surely
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: if they are true, it's something that should be investigated.
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: So they're not walking away from this. They're leaning in.
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: Well, the thing about that too is what she said
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: in that press briefing is, that's not something he said.
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: It's not something Donald Trump has said. But because these
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: people have no kind of, they're not, they don't have
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: a kind of respect for American values. They don't really
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: understand what makes America a great place. They don't understand
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: freedom and what it's worth. She can't do what an honorable,
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: patriotic person would do is say, we respect the rights
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: of citizens in the country and we don't target people
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: for their beliefs. And we may not like this guy,
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: but that doesn't mean we're going to suddenly start questioning
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: whether or not they're Americans, right? They don't have that capacity.
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: We're so far gone from it. We're used to it now,
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: but it's ridiculous.
• 57:31
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: And then there's, look, for those who think we might
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: be inflating this, I mean, there's a lower burden of
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: proof for a denaturalization than for a criminal case. There's
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: no statute of limitations, so they can do this at
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: any time. From 1907 to 1967, 22,000 Americans were denaturalized.
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: This was like the Red Scare era. Now that dropped
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: way down from the 90s through 2017, but they could
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: certainly ramp this right back up.
• 57:53
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: I mean, look, like, you know, people talk about like
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: green card marriages, right? Like almost as a joke. It's
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: not a joke when all of a sudden there is
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: a partisan politicized effort to throw people out of this country. Yeah.
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: All right. Finally, we want to give you guys an
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: update on the case of Kilmar Abrego-Garcia. who has opted
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: to remain in federal custody as his human smuggling case
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: proceeds rather than risk being potentially deported again, which is
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: what the Department of Homeland Security seems primed to do.
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: On Sunday, the Washington Post reported that the star witness
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: against Abrego Garcia is a three-time felon who has been
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: released from prison early to a halfway house in exchange
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: for cooperating. That witness has had multiple run-ins with the
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: police for public intoxication and transporting undocumented migrants, drunkenly firing
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: a handgun out of a car window in a residential neighborhood,
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: and a few other things. It basically just seems like
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: the Trump administration is letting an actually dangerous repeat offender
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: free in order to continue their prosecution of someone that
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: they fucked up, they wrongly sent to El Salvador, but
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: now they've deemed a political enemy who is kind of
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: like the keystone holding together the argument for their entire
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: policy of sending Venezuelans mostly to El Salvador?
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, look, they said that they were going to get
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: criminals off the street. So they're putting a criminal on
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: the street in order to pursue this, what is clearly
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: a political prosecution, whatever evidence they ultimately put forward is
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: a political prosecution. And we know that because it didn't
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: exist until it was on his way back to the U.S.
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: to right the previous wrong of their deportation. But this
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: is what we're seeing across the board. They claimed that
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: they were going to be going after criminals in our country. Instead,
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: because of these kind of ad hoc, chaotic roundups, they
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: are grabbing people who are not criminals at a far
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: higher rate than they were before. They claim that they
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: want to go after the deficit. So they're going to
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: pass a bill that dramatically increases the debt. Like they're
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: just they're just they are they are lying and they
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: are failing on their own terms. But it's just like
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: a small example of how much of this is just
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: rhetoric for the Fox News audience, while in practice they
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: are rounding up people who are just trying to go
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: to work. They are not focusing on criminals. What you're
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: about to talk about next makes that even more clear.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's just remarkable how often their policies are
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: not just cruel, but also self-defeating. So, you know, the
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: Times is a big piece today about Trump's, the deal
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: he cut with El Salvador with Nayib Bukele that allowed
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: the United States to send people like Gilmar Obrego-Garcia and
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: a couple hundred other Venezuelan men to this nightmare Sukkot
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: prison in El Salvador. As part of that deal, there
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: was some funding that went to Bukele's government, like, you know,
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: $ 5 million or something, kind of de minimis. But As
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: part of the deal, the US also agreed to drop
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: charges against a MS-13 gang leader named Vampiro, who was
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: being prosecuted in New York on charges of terrorism, murder,
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: and corruption. This guy was accused of overseeing killings in
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: at least three countries. But because we got this deal
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: with Bukele, he was sent back to El Salvador. Now,
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: Bukele's government says, oh, they'll prosecute him there. But It
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: seems very likely that the real reason that Bukele wanted
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: this guy, Vampiro, sent back to El Salvador along with
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: several others that he's seeking the release of is because
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: they are gang leaders who could provide or have provided
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: the US government evidence about Bukele cutting deals with gangs
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: for political reasons. Basically, the gangs agreed to hide the
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: bodies of the people they were murdering and to help
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: round up support for Bukele around elections. in exchange for
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: special favors when they were in prison or whatever. And
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: so Trump's policy here, it's not tough on crime. It
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: is actually undermining a major prosecution of some of the
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: most senior MS-13 officials that we've ever arrested.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And look, this is why you don't grab people
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: and throw them into a gulag without any form of
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: due process or ability to question their accusers because you
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: don't have all the facts and governments are flawed. Uh,
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: people make mistakes or people are corrupt. Uh, right now, uh,
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: people are being grabbed on the street in Los Angeles
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: and they're being held. They're not able to, uh, uh,
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: contact their lawyers. They're not off. Often they're not, they
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: don't know where they're being held. They don't know where
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: they're being taken to. They're being grabbed off the street
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: by people who are not identifying themselves, who are covering
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: their faces.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: It's not off.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: It's often not the clear what law enforcement agency they're
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: even from, or if they're just being working for that
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: law enforcement agency. And look, it is dangerous and wrong
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: when it happens in a country like El Salvador, but
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: it's not supposed to happen here because that's why we
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: set up a constitution that has habeas corpus. That's why
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: we have all of these protections. That's why we require
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: law enforcement to show their badge and to declare themselves,
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: not just because it is important in that case. It
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: is so that other people know that if someone tries
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: to grab them off the street and they're not wearing
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: a uniform, you can't later be what? held in contempt,
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: accused of a crime for obstructing law enforcement because somebody
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: wearing a mask tried to grab you off the street?
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: I know, yeah. Did you see this video that was
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: going around over the weekend of this mom in Pasadena
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: who was arrested by a bunch of ICE agents? Only
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: two of the three had a badge, Dunward uniform, and
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: they arrested this woman. And they picked up the wrong person.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: They arrested the wrong person. They ended up having to
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: call 911 on ICE because it just looked like an abduction. Yeah,
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: they are abductions. They are abductions.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: That's what's happening. These are abductions.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: It's lawless. It's chaotic.
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 5: It's dangerous.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: These are abductions. People are being abducted off the street
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: in America by people wearing masks, taken to places God
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: knows where, often unable to be found by their families
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: or their lawyers.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: It's happening.
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: It's dangerous. And when you look at what's coming next,
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: when you look at them talking about doing denaturalization proceedings,
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: suddenly that's open to citizens. Citizens who weren't born here,
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: who they claim may have lied on a form 30
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: years ago. An inconsistency. Um, you know, that, that is the,
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: that is what's going to happen. That is the danger
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: of what happens when right now, one of the, they
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: don't have the money. Wait till they have the resources.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: The way too many.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: Uh, yeah.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: And in practice, you know, dangerous people are getting put
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: back on the street and, you know, innocent communities full
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: of people, mostly Latino people being here in Los Angeles
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: are terrorized and scared to leave the house. Uh, and
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: it is just truly awful.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: Well, it's also, there's a limited amount of, of resources.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: this push by Stephen Miller and Trump and Nome to
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: go after as many people as possible, it means those
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: are people driving around, grabbing people who are just trying
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: to go to work. They're not focused on finding the
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: criminals that are still out, right? That have been released.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: They're not trying to find the people that they claim
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: that they were gonna target, right? Like there are people
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: walking the streets who Joe Biden and all of us
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: would have thought, oh, that's a person that needs to
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: be found and deported, that found and arrested. Those are
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: people that are on the streets because that is not
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: how you get the numbers, right? This is a numbers game. Hey, Tommy,
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: Murphy said this, that so Iran still has centrifuges, it
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: still has uranium enriched to 60%, and it still has
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: nuclear scientists. Have you ever tried to concentrate when, like
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: on a hard project, but your dog was barking, and
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: it's hard to really focus? How do you do nuclear
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: scientist stuff In Iran.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: When you're getting bombed?
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: I just don't know. I just think it's hard to concentrate.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: That's a scary job. Yeah.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: Talk to me about the Venn diagram overlap between people
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: smart enough to be a nuclear scientist and dumb enough
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: to be a nuclear scientist in Iran.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: You got to wonder the little coercion here because they've been,
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: their vehicles have been exploding for a very long time.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: This has been a long effort.
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: It's a tough job.
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: The Iranian.
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: It's a tough job.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I'm glad we could end that on an even
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: lighter note. Just, I don't, I don't know.
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: Like if somebody, if I lived in Iran and someone said, Hey,
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: what do you know about Adams?
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: Fucking nothing. Nothing. Nothing.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: Absolutely nothing. Nothing.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 2: Nothing. I want to start an app.
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: That's it for us from today.
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: Is that allowed?
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: I don't even know. I don't know. That's it for
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: the show. Dan will be back on Thursday with guest
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: host Jen Psaki. So that's exciting. Thanks for listening. Talk
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: to you soon.
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: Uranium. Never heard of it.
• 1:06:23
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