Latest / The Money Puzzle / Summer series: Investing Secrets from $1.5bn Fund Manager Jun Bei Liu

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Summer series: Investing Secrets from $1.5bn Fund Manager Jun Bei Liu · The Money Puzzle

0:01
Speaker 1: Hello, James Kirby. Here, just a quick note before we begin.
0:05
Speaker 1: We're taking a short break over the holiday period and
0:08
Speaker 1: we'll be back with the first new episode of The
0:10
Speaker 1: Money Puzzle for the new year on Wednesday, January fourtheenth.
0:16
Speaker 1: In the meantime, here's high profile stock picker June Beleeu
0:19
Speaker 1: of the ten Cap Group, who has one of the
0:22
Speaker 1: most interesting stories we had during the year. It's a
0:27
Speaker 1: fascinating interview. It was recorded in October with Wealth editor
0:31
Speaker 1: Julianne Spragg. I'm sure you'll enjoy it on behalf of
0:34
Speaker 1: the Money Puzzle team, especially my producer Liah Sammaglu, who's
0:38
Speaker 1: been so good this year. I'd like to wish you
0:41
Speaker 1: all and merry Christmas and a happy new Year. Hello
0:56
Speaker 1: and welcome to the Australians Money Puzzle podcast. I'm James Kirby.
1:00
Speaker 1: Aboard everybody. Well. I've mentioned in recent weeks that we
1:04
Speaker 1: are planning to do some new features here at The
1:07
Speaker 1: Money Puzzle, and today and over the next three Mondays,
1:11
Speaker 1: we're going to present a short series to you on
1:13
Speaker 1: how top investors pick their winning investments. My colleague at
1:18
Speaker 1: The Australian, Julianne Spragg, sat down for a chat with
1:21
Speaker 1: top stock picker Jun Beilu, the co founder of ten Cap.
1:27
Speaker 1: She's more than tripled funds under management to more than
1:29
Speaker 1: one point five billion dollars. How does she pick a
1:32
Speaker 1: good stock and what's your advice for everyday investors? Let's
1:37
Speaker 1: find out.
1:39
Speaker 2: Jin Bailou, thanks for joining me. I want to have
1:42
Speaker 2: a chat to you about your journey. So you came
1:45
Speaker 2: to Australia as a sixteen year old, got yourself into
1:48
Speaker 2: the funds management business, initially as an analyst involved in
1:52
Speaker 2: a fund that I think had around three hundred million
1:54
Speaker 2: dollars funds under management, then grew that to over a
1:56
Speaker 2: billion dollars and now out on you aren at ten cap.
1:58
Speaker 2: It's pretty extraordinary store.
2:00
Speaker 3: Oh thank you.
2:01
Speaker 2: We want to have a chat about that, but also
2:03
Speaker 2: really keen to learn from you about what you've learned
2:05
Speaker 2: about investing and get some of your tips for those
2:08
Speaker 2: of us who just want to get better at it.
2:11
Speaker 2: Let's maybe just start at the beginning. And you came
2:13
Speaker 2: to Australia as a sixteen year old. What was that like?
2:16
Speaker 3: Oh, look, it's quite incredible. Actually, I still remember thinking
2:19
Speaker 3: the first day I landed in Australia. The first thing
2:22
Speaker 3: that struck me is the sky was so blue. And
2:24
Speaker 3: I come from China at the time, we don't see
2:26
Speaker 3: blue sky very often. Sky so blue, and the cloud
2:29
Speaker 3: is so three d, almost as if you could touch it.
2:32
Speaker 3: It's such a beautiful country. I just remember thinking that
2:35
Speaker 3: was incredible. Of course, over the next six month, I
2:38
Speaker 3: think I couldn't understand the word of English, so it
2:40
Speaker 3: took a little while to vaguely translate the body language
2:43
Speaker 3: into what people meant.
2:45
Speaker 2: We went to read people.
2:47
Speaker 3: Yeah, you kind of need to read, and it's incredible
2:49
Speaker 3: how our mind adapt them. So our brain sort of
2:52
Speaker 3: adapt to the situation. I think within three months I
2:55
Speaker 3: can sort of vaguely understand in the class that what
2:58
Speaker 3: teacher sort of meant. Subject matter like matt and other
3:01
Speaker 3: things a bit easier, but when you go into biology
3:03
Speaker 3: and others becomes a bit harder. But still you pick
3:05
Speaker 3: up real quick. And I still remember every day when
3:08
Speaker 3: I was on my way to school, I have to
3:09
Speaker 3: catch the bus to go to school, and it's about
3:12
Speaker 3: forty minute bus ride and I used to take deep breath.
3:15
Speaker 3: I get quite stressed and take deep breath, keep forcing
3:18
Speaker 3: myself thinking in English, because the hardest thing for a
3:21
Speaker 3: migrant is that you think in your own language. Then
3:24
Speaker 3: you before you speak, you translate it, and then when
3:26
Speaker 3: you hear it, then you translate back and then you
3:28
Speaker 3: think again in your own language. That's why it takes
3:30
Speaker 3: so long for you to actually speak something. So if
3:34
Speaker 3: you force yourself to think English, then it much faster,
3:37
Speaker 3: and then you actually get practice all the time. So
3:40
Speaker 3: I remember that forty minute bus ride. I used to
3:42
Speaker 3: practice every day.
3:43
Speaker 2: And ingest in your head, you're strying to speak talking
3:46
Speaker 2: to myself.
3:46
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I think I still today people catch me
3:48
Speaker 3: talking to myself all the time, going crazy.
3:52
Speaker 2: And your parents what triggered the move? Did they sort
3:55
Speaker 2: of talk to you at the time about why they
3:56
Speaker 2: were doing that?
3:56
Speaker 3: Yeah? Sure, look at the time. So my mother came
3:58
Speaker 3: to Australia as part of that whole relaxation of student
4:01
Speaker 3: visa posta Tiama Square and massacre. And at the time,
4:05
Speaker 3: but in China, China was very poor. Every person in
4:08
Speaker 3: China really wanted to see what it's like to be
4:10
Speaker 3: in a foreign country. It's almost it's like a dream
4:12
Speaker 3: come true. And my mother was very fortunate that she
4:15
Speaker 3: came through in the visa and then she managed to stay,
4:18
Speaker 3: worked many jobs and managed to stay. And then I
4:21
Speaker 3: came and joined her six years later. So we separated
4:23
Speaker 3: for six years and joined her six years later, and
4:25
Speaker 3: then my dad came another four years later.
4:28
Speaker 2: My goodness, what a journey.
4:29
Speaker 3: I know, it's incredible.
4:31
Speaker 2: And the attitudes towards money when you were growing up,
4:34
Speaker 2: did your sort of parents sort of instilled in particular values.
4:37
Speaker 3: Yeah, look, I think it just we grew up pretty poor,
4:39
Speaker 3: so making money is it's probably a big thing. But
4:42
Speaker 3: even though we were poor, But my dad always remember
4:44
Speaker 3: he's I think he's quite a venturous. He was, I
4:47
Speaker 3: would say, one of the earliest investors in share market
4:50
Speaker 3: or bomb market there in China. This is I think
4:52
Speaker 3: he started in maybe like ninety nineteen ninety when the
4:56
Speaker 3: capital market was really literally its infancy in China, and
4:59
Speaker 3: it was more or less just punting, right. So I
5:02
Speaker 3: remember at home, we don't have computers. He will print
5:05
Speaker 3: out all these paper and draw all the lines of
5:07
Speaker 3: where the stock is today, and then draw all these
5:10
Speaker 3: ratio and everything, and then every day he'll make a
5:12
Speaker 3: prediction about the stock either going up or going down.
5:16
Speaker 3: He'll never get it wrong. And then every day he'll
5:18
Speaker 3: stick up a paper, so we literally have all these
5:21
Speaker 3: lines of paper because we don't have computer going across
5:24
Speaker 3: my bedroom, his bedroom, living room, all the way down downstairs,
5:28
Speaker 3: and they're into the kitchen, so we just have all
5:31
Speaker 3: these charts everywhere. So I grew up with the charters.
5:34
Speaker 2: Wow, investing you learned by Osmosis, Oh.
5:36
Speaker 3: I reckon, it's exciting. I think what I learned is
5:39
Speaker 3: that excitement. To me, it's always investing bit like treasure hunting.
5:43
Speaker 3: You go and find something before everyone else, and then
5:46
Speaker 3: you founder, you did the work, you found it, and
5:49
Speaker 3: you know you make the return. So it's very much
5:51
Speaker 3: like treasure hunting. So at the time, I feel a
5:53
Speaker 3: lot of my dad's excitement and disappointment, and then my
5:56
Speaker 3: at the time, I thought he would never be wrong
5:58
Speaker 3: because every day he's predict either or doubt Sideway will
6:01
Speaker 3: be the wrong day.
6:02
Speaker 2: Was chat treasure hunting. Can you remember your very first investment,
6:07
Speaker 2: what it might have been, and how old you were
6:09
Speaker 2: when you made your first, like your first investment all
6:11
Speaker 2: on your own?
6:12
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's right. So my first investment actually when
6:15
Speaker 3: I already started working, but very early days, I think
6:18
Speaker 3: I put my money in a company. Actually, I put
6:22
Speaker 3: my money in a company where at the time I thought, oh, look,
6:25
Speaker 3: I don't really know how to invest. I just want
6:27
Speaker 3: to invest in something that I know what it is,
6:29
Speaker 3: which is worth it, and because I go to the store.
6:32
Speaker 3: In fact, I worked in Woolworth briefly as a checkout
6:35
Speaker 3: chick in high school, so you knew it.
6:37
Speaker 2: Well.
6:37
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's like that touch and feel. It's really exciting.
6:40
Speaker 2: And I still have my name bad from Coles just quietly, Oh.
6:43
Speaker 3: I think I do too. Yeah, I think I do too.
6:48
Speaker 3: And that was my first experience. I didn't know anything
6:50
Speaker 3: about it, and that was at the time where I
6:53
Speaker 3: just started looking at some of the financial statements I
6:55
Speaker 3: learned in UNI, and then my first job as a
6:58
Speaker 3: signlest also working for morning staff as well.
7:00
Speaker 2: So you studied finance to you knew you wanted to
7:03
Speaker 2: go into the finance industry become an analyst. So you've
7:05
Speaker 2: got a bit of knowledge behind you then, but then
7:07
Speaker 2: you sort of think you still stick to what you know, so.
7:09
Speaker 3: You'll buy I tell you what I think that it's
7:12
Speaker 3: actually less inspirational than often what I portrayed to be.
7:16
Speaker 3: It's actually, look I always feel finance. I did finance
7:19
Speaker 3: because as a Chinese kid will go finance or accounting
7:22
Speaker 3: definitely will find a job. That's what my mother tells me.
7:24
Speaker 3: And as I go through finance, and then I kind
7:27
Speaker 3: of learned the things that I like. I never liked
7:30
Speaker 3: the accounting part of it. I find a very try so.
7:34
Speaker 2: And people who know me, they'll be having a giggle
7:36
Speaker 2: now because one of my stories is my dad wanted
7:39
Speaker 2: me to study accounting. You'll get a job. But then
7:41
Speaker 2: I was just delinquent, going, no, I don't want accounting.
7:45
Speaker 3: No, yeah, I think the accounting is the thing. Yeah, well,
7:49
Speaker 3: well I think I'm kind of pivoted as well. So
7:51
Speaker 3: because with accounting I did a one year of accounting
7:54
Speaker 3: or was that not that's.
7:54
Speaker 2: Not met the accounting.
7:56
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right, and they're too scared to drop the
7:58
Speaker 3: entire commerce. Then my mother be hugely disappointed. So I
8:01
Speaker 3: shifted to finance. And then in finance that you learn
8:04
Speaker 3: about behavioral finance and economics and a few other things.
8:08
Speaker 3: And behavioral finance was so fascinating because that's the soft skill,
8:12
Speaker 3: that's where you do the treasure hunting. You're trying to
8:15
Speaker 3: think about how everyone else is thinking what are their biases?
8:19
Speaker 3: It's almost like a psychology class. I find that very fascinating.
8:22
Speaker 2: Is that then how you can work out whether to
8:25
Speaker 2: go with the herd or not? You know how there's
8:26
Speaker 2: that herd mentality in markets.
8:28
Speaker 3: That's absolutely right. I actually think unlike what many other
8:31
Speaker 3: people think. Many people think investing about numbers and get
8:34
Speaker 3: the numbers right and everything. I actually think get the
8:36
Speaker 3: numbers right is almost a basic and that's a small
8:38
Speaker 3: component of ultimate what the share price will do. It's
8:41
Speaker 3: actually get your numbers right, and what the share price
8:43
Speaker 3: will do, especially in the immediate future, in the next
8:46
Speaker 3: three to six months. Short term is all about sentiment.
8:50
Speaker 3: Sentiment is behavioral bias, you know, is all about what
8:53
Speaker 3: would other people pay for those numbers that you just
8:56
Speaker 3: put together. And that's what share market. That's why these
8:59
Speaker 3: days you see while swings. It's just that sentiment. So
9:02
Speaker 3: it's actually incredibly important because if you can understand that
9:06
Speaker 3: and then you can sometimes go against the hurds, then
9:08
Speaker 3: you make a lot more return. There's your treasure. You
9:11
Speaker 3: found that before other people realized it was a treasure.
9:13
Speaker 2: So is there something that you look towards to try
9:16
Speaker 2: and work out that behavioral piece, like is there. I
9:19
Speaker 2: don't know if you're reading different aspects of how do
9:21
Speaker 2: you try and determine what people are going to do?
9:24
Speaker 1: Yeah?
9:24
Speaker 3: I think firstly you need to and when you start
9:26
Speaker 3: investing in something, don't start with a preconceived idea of
9:29
Speaker 3: what it should be, because I find many investors make
9:32
Speaker 3: this mistake is that they always feel, oh, I think
9:34
Speaker 3: this is that, and then they when you believe something
9:37
Speaker 3: firmly without open mind, then you start finding evidence just
9:41
Speaker 3: to support your own view, our own view sometimes right,
9:44
Speaker 3: sometimes right. It's very important to when you start looking
9:46
Speaker 3: at something just keep a complete open mind looking at
9:49
Speaker 3: as afresh or some of the previous mistakes. Many mistakes
9:53
Speaker 3: made mistake all the time, and one of some of
9:55
Speaker 3: the biggest mistake is that when we have preseconceived idea,
9:57
Speaker 3: then we start making pivot to the wrong side. Then
10:00
Speaker 3: you stop listening to everyone and then you kind of
10:03
Speaker 3: just make the wrong bet about a company's future simply
10:07
Speaker 3: because you just couldn't see what is coming. So yeah,
10:10
Speaker 3: so I think open mind and curiosity is very important.
10:14
Speaker 2: Do you have any rules or structures around how you
10:18
Speaker 2: go to invest that you're talking about it sounds like
10:20
Speaker 2: you do an awful lot of research and you sort
10:22
Speaker 2: of sounds like you pause and really get to understand
10:25
Speaker 2: the company before you invest. But how long does that take?
10:28
Speaker 2: And is that sort of a metric or so some
10:31
Speaker 2: sort of plan that you work to before you actually
10:34
Speaker 2: invest your money or your client's money.
10:35
Speaker 3: Oh absolutely, so look for a brand new company, it
10:38
Speaker 3: does take much longer because ultimately we always talk about
10:42
Speaker 3: do your homework, is that you do need to understand
10:44
Speaker 3: the business. So the core understanding of the business is firstly,
10:48
Speaker 3: what's its customer proposition? What's the proposition? Why does it exist?
10:51
Speaker 3: So ask this question why does it exist? How does
10:54
Speaker 3: it exist? How is it better than others? And how
10:57
Speaker 3: does it make money? And is that how or specialty
11:01
Speaker 3: going to continue? Are they keep reinvesting what's special about
11:04
Speaker 3: that business that they can keep going? And then you
11:07
Speaker 3: can decide, Okay, well it can make this much money
11:10
Speaker 3: and next share you'll make more. Because I know all
11:12
Speaker 3: these things they're doing, it's going to drive this and
11:15
Speaker 3: I know the management execution is very important. They've done
11:18
Speaker 3: it before and you met the management need. They're driven
11:21
Speaker 3: because ultimately, especially small business, they run by people who's creating,
11:25
Speaker 3: innovating an idea, So they've got to be driven, so
11:29
Speaker 3: it's them. You kind of follow them when it's early on.
11:32
Speaker 3: So a lot of these Once you're done your homeworld,
11:35
Speaker 3: you understand, you really understand the driver of the business,
11:38
Speaker 3: where it's going, You understand the management, you understand in
11:41
Speaker 3: and out of that business and that industry. And then
11:44
Speaker 3: this is the first part of it. And then the
11:46
Speaker 3: next part of it is to actually work out what
11:48
Speaker 3: you want to pay for it, and that is the
11:51
Speaker 3: tricky part.
11:52
Speaker 2: That is the tricky part. When we come back, let's
11:54
Speaker 2: talk about how to know when a stock is too expensive?
11:57
Speaker 2: And I also want to know your investing mistakes or
12:01
Speaker 2: do they teach you? And what's your investing advice for
12:04
Speaker 2: everyday investors. We'll return to our chat following this small
12:08
Speaker 2: break Jim Bay. Before we went to the break, we
12:24
Speaker 2: were talking about investing in shares, so doing all of
12:27
Speaker 2: the research deciding which company you'd like to back. The
12:31
Speaker 2: tricky part though, is working out whether there's value in
12:34
Speaker 2: that company. How do you go about working out whether
12:37
Speaker 2: a company is too expensive to buy?
12:39
Speaker 3: I think in today's world, the expensiveness really come back
12:43
Speaker 3: down to relative valuation, so you compare it with something else.
12:47
Speaker 3: So we in the Australian market, if something is expensive,
12:51
Speaker 3: is not a reason for not buying something or for
12:54
Speaker 3: selling something, because yeah, I tell you why. Because Australian
12:58
Speaker 3: market growth is very hard to come by, and then
13:01
Speaker 3: there's only limited there's only a couple of companies you
13:04
Speaker 3: can buy that can grow. So there's an incredible amount
13:07
Speaker 3: of money keeps piling into growth within our share market
13:10
Speaker 3: and they will keep going to the same company. So
13:12
Speaker 3: the evaluation today is much much higher than they were
13:15
Speaker 3: ten years ago.
13:16
Speaker 2: Simply because it's just not as many companies, not many comports,
13:19
Speaker 2: that's right, And there's an awful lot of money that
13:21
Speaker 2: needs to be funneled.
13:22
Speaker 3: Towards amount of money that's right. Yeah, that's right. And
13:25
Speaker 3: everyone wants to growth company to future proof their portfolio. Right,
13:29
Speaker 3: So your portfolio will have always have bit of everything.
13:31
Speaker 3: You have, bit of gold, bit of a company that
13:33
Speaker 3: paid dividend like banks and things give you good income,
13:36
Speaker 3: and then bit of maybe bit of material, but bit
13:39
Speaker 3: of a growth company because in five years time, you
13:42
Speaker 3: want your portfolio to keep growing rather than just paying
13:44
Speaker 3: out dividend. Right, you don't want it to stand still
13:46
Speaker 3: every year. They say share market should double every seven years.
13:49
Speaker 3: So you want that growth company to be the core
13:52
Speaker 3: holding of a portfolio. And they're on top of that,
13:55
Speaker 3: you've got some dividend, you got some cyclical they call
13:58
Speaker 3: a ciclical. Cyclicals companies do well when the economy picks
14:02
Speaker 3: up and then do badly when economy So you buy
14:05
Speaker 3: and sell you much more shorter term with those ones.
14:08
Speaker 3: So that's the portfolio.
14:09
Speaker 2: So you think I need to have a bank in
14:11
Speaker 2: my portfolio. We always refer to the Big four and
14:13
Speaker 2: then Commonwealth Bank has absolutely gone out on its own,
14:17
Speaker 2: like it is just on a different level. So then
14:20
Speaker 2: how do you work out then, if I want to
14:21
Speaker 2: have a bank, does Commonwealth now look so expensive that
14:23
Speaker 2: I'm better off going with these other three pick one
14:27
Speaker 2: of them? Or do you say, like what we were
14:29
Speaker 2: talking about before is like the herd's obviously going with CBA.
14:33
Speaker 2: How do you make that decision? How do you sit
14:34
Speaker 2: down and assess it?
14:36
Speaker 3: Yeah, look a two things I agree with you. I
14:38
Speaker 3: think banks looks really expensive. Yeah yeah. And then the
14:41
Speaker 3: thing is like you don't really want to as an
14:43
Speaker 3: investor who's not constantly watching the market. I always have
14:46
Speaker 3: advice to stick with quality, stick with the best quality company,
14:50
Speaker 3: and because you don't want to worry about a day
14:51
Speaker 3: to day you've got to day trade and all of that, right,
14:53
Speaker 3: So unfortunately, I think CBA is best position. It's the
14:56
Speaker 3: best bank, but most expensive in the world. I can
14:59
Speaker 3: say that. So when you pick one, I think NAB
15:01
Speaker 3: looks okay. Relative Again, we're talking about relative valuation. Things
15:05
Speaker 3: look relatively cheaper. NAP still looks expensive for a bank
15:08
Speaker 3: on historical terms, but it's a whole lot cheaper than
15:11
Speaker 3: what CBA is offering. So I think relatively I would
15:14
Speaker 3: hold NAB instead of CBA. But nothing will stop CBA
15:18
Speaker 3: from keep rallying away because.
15:20
Speaker 2: If anyone listening, if they just put CBA, it's you keep.
15:23
Speaker 3: Up, because I tell you what, last three months at
15:25
Speaker 3: the share price going where it actually six six months ago,
15:28
Speaker 3: a share price was moving higher because of it's earning,
15:31
Speaker 3: was doing a bit better and buy back and all
15:33
Speaker 3: these great things. But last three months all because international
15:36
Speaker 3: investor want to put money in Australia. And then what
15:40
Speaker 3: do they do. They kind of just buy the top
15:41
Speaker 3: companies and they don't want to buy resources, so they
15:44
Speaker 3: bought banks and then watch banks you buy, you buy
15:46
Speaker 3: the CBA. They don't want the problem with it, and
15:48
Speaker 3: they've had a lot of issues and even Westpac is
15:51
Speaker 3: not doing gray, so they kind of just put money
15:53
Speaker 3: in the big one.
15:54
Speaker 2: We get told a lot that, particularly when markets are volatile,
15:59
Speaker 2: don't sell, sit tight hanging there. I think for investors too,
16:05
Speaker 2: there is an art in knowing when to sell. How
16:07
Speaker 2: do you work out when is a great time to sell?
16:10
Speaker 3: Yeah, so to sell is always the hardest question for it. Yeah,
16:14
Speaker 3: so hardest question. I always believe you find a proper
16:17
Speaker 3: growth winner, you do not sell right, so you can
16:20
Speaker 3: trim a little bit because you need money to buy
16:22
Speaker 3: something else. That's how we look at it. So if
16:24
Speaker 3: I some of our winner like like three sixty Promedicus
16:27
Speaker 3: and these were incredibly well. But the thing is, if
16:30
Speaker 3: I find something else I think also can do very
16:33
Speaker 3: well in the next to a month, I might sell
16:34
Speaker 3: a little bit and put into it, but I don't
16:36
Speaker 3: completely sell out because winners history have proven that if
16:40
Speaker 3: you sell it, you'll never buy back in because they
16:42
Speaker 3: keep going. So a company like that is they're just
16:45
Speaker 3: such a strong driver behind them in terms of earnings
16:49
Speaker 3: growth We just don't have many of them around.
16:52
Speaker 2: So how do you go about balancing your portfolio?
16:54
Speaker 3: Yeah, So the good thing is that when you find
16:56
Speaker 3: when we have the next opportunity coming out maybe so
16:59
Speaker 3: I think even with like three sixty it was a
17:02
Speaker 3: few years ago, was very cheap. Everyone worried about what's
17:04
Speaker 3: happening with the US and all that, and then you know,
17:06
Speaker 3: you sell some of the growth names and funding too
17:08
Speaker 3: those and even early in the year when you talk
17:11
Speaker 3: about the market volatility, these times are great to picking
17:14
Speaker 3: up high quality companies because people sell everything. Especially people
17:18
Speaker 3: like to sell winners because they go, oh, I don't
17:20
Speaker 3: know what tariff is going to do. I'm going to
17:22
Speaker 3: sell my profit, my winners because I've done so well
17:24
Speaker 3: out of them. So people sold out all the growth names.
17:27
Speaker 3: They're all thirty percent cheaper, literally in three weeks thirty
17:31
Speaker 3: percent cheaper, and then they all jumped more than thirty percent.
17:34
Speaker 3: Some of them have gone up thirty percent since the.
17:36
Speaker 2: Behindslight's wonderful, isn't it. So Yeah, that's why do you
17:39
Speaker 2: stay calm in those times. It can be turbulent. That's
17:42
Speaker 2: got a job where you'll wake up in the morning
17:44
Speaker 2: or maybe I don't know if you would have to go,
17:47
Speaker 2: what's my morning going to be? Like, It's just it's
17:49
Speaker 2: what differences happening on global markets really does impact what's
17:52
Speaker 2: happening on the local market.
17:54
Speaker 3: Absolutely, so I think, look, I've been doing this for
17:56
Speaker 3: twenty five years, so you kind of get used to
17:58
Speaker 3: the volatility. Volatility will but you know it will always pass.
18:02
Speaker 3: It will always pass, but you need to work out
18:04
Speaker 3: what's the new information. So what we didn't know at
18:07
Speaker 3: the time was really in this particular time was tariff.
18:10
Speaker 3: We don't know what Trump is going to do one
18:12
Speaker 3: hundred and forty seven percent on China or all that.
18:14
Speaker 3: So for companies that potentially get impacted by that tariff,
18:18
Speaker 3: we just thought that's too hard because I don't know tomorrow.
18:20
Speaker 3: It could be one hundred percent tomorrow or zero percent.
18:23
Speaker 3: I don't know. That's we don't do. But for the
18:25
Speaker 3: company actually doesn't get impacted by tariff, they are thirty
18:28
Speaker 3: percent lower on no change to earnings. This way we
18:32
Speaker 3: know it will come back. So you buy these businesses.
18:35
Speaker 3: Same as during a pandemic. I remember when market went
18:38
Speaker 3: free four, same thing. Everything fell, especially the winners. They
18:41
Speaker 3: fell first and then we just sort of work out
18:44
Speaker 3: what we do know what we don't know. So the
18:46
Speaker 3: first thing is that what we do know is that
18:48
Speaker 3: hard asset will come back Sydney Airport. Someone will buy
18:51
Speaker 3: this thing it was forty percent cheap, or someone will
18:53
Speaker 3: buy it. So you buy the hard air set and
18:55
Speaker 3: then we have the government promised to stepping give stimulus
18:58
Speaker 3: and all of that. Then we'll go okay and then
19:00
Speaker 3: buy retailers by JB High Vibe. So really need to
19:03
Speaker 3: really understand what information is there and then based on
19:07
Speaker 3: and see if there's any change to your investment assumptions
19:10
Speaker 3: of a company.
19:11
Speaker 2: Let's dive into some of the mistakes along the way.
19:14
Speaker 2: We've all made some safe places. It's a safe space,
19:19
Speaker 2: that's right. But I think to learn and to grow
19:21
Speaker 2: and to become a better investor, you've had to have
19:23
Speaker 2: made some clangers along the way. So I don't know
19:25
Speaker 2: if there's one in particular that you recall what it
19:28
Speaker 2: was and.
19:29
Speaker 3: What it taught you. Yeah, look, we make a mistake
19:31
Speaker 3: all the time, that's what they say. So investing in
19:33
Speaker 3: the share market, right, you work out your probability, so
19:36
Speaker 3: what they say, but we do better than that. So
19:38
Speaker 3: we are probably is about seventy to twenty percent will outperform,
19:42
Speaker 3: and but that twenty percent time that we're underperforming will
19:44
Speaker 3: pick the company that didn't work out. So you always
19:47
Speaker 3: make mispaedakes. That's the key advice. You have to make
19:50
Speaker 3: mistake to learn, otherwise you'll never learn. So what there's
19:53
Speaker 3: one name always click with me because that's early days
19:56
Speaker 3: in my career. Obviously feeling fantastic. Buying Woolworth is oh easy.
20:00
Speaker 2: And so that investment went well, we meant the beginning,
20:03
Speaker 2: So that that was your first investment. Can you recall
20:05
Speaker 2: how much you's can't remember?
20:06
Speaker 3: God, Yeah, I made money and then I sold it.
20:08
Speaker 3: Yeah that's right, I made money. I think I made
20:10
Speaker 3: a thousand dollars. I was so excited and I sold it.
20:12
Speaker 3: I was like, yes, lock it in, okay.
20:14
Speaker 2: So then you feel like, yeah, I know what I'm doing.
20:15
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. It's way too easy. And then that's
20:17
Speaker 3: when and then the I also just started my celside
20:20
Speaker 3: Joe where I was the first time young person be
20:23
Speaker 3: my full lead analysts and initiate on this company. And
20:26
Speaker 3: I remember at the time JB High Fi just listed
20:29
Speaker 3: and it was expensive I think sixteen times earnings was
20:32
Speaker 3: very expensive then now will be like two hundred times.
20:35
Speaker 3: But anyway, I was sixteen times earning, and then I thought,
20:38
Speaker 3: oh Jbhi Fi sixteen times earning. Strathfield car Radio. I
20:42
Speaker 3: don't know if you know that one. Oh that's going back, yeah, yeah, okay,
20:45
Speaker 3: that's it. So Strathfield Car Radio I was trading on
20:49
Speaker 3: twelve times and and.
20:50
Speaker 2: So just wen't they They was a company and you
20:53
Speaker 2: could take out your car radio and your existing car
20:55
Speaker 2: and put in like the rats and city players and stuff.
20:59
Speaker 3: That's right. And then those days car radio is big thing.
21:01
Speaker 3: So every people when they buy the car, they go
21:04
Speaker 3: and change their radio, they upgrade their radio. So JB
21:07
Speaker 3: High Fi used to have those as well. With the
21:09
Speaker 3: car radio. It was a big credit, big component of
21:12
Speaker 3: that time, right, that's right. Yeah, So you walk into
21:15
Speaker 3: Strathfield car Radio, they say they got car radio. They
21:17
Speaker 3: got back then they just started selling mobile phone in
21:20
Speaker 3: those things, and they got a little bit of consumer
21:22
Speaker 3: electronics on the side as well. So it's like a
21:24
Speaker 3: mini JB High five, but poor men version JB High.
21:26
Speaker 2: Five Okay, And he thought, well it's cheaper.
21:28
Speaker 3: I was as much cheaper. Why not They're rolling our
21:30
Speaker 3: stores as well, and JB High five's rolling our stores.
21:33
Speaker 3: Why would not buy this one? It's all great? But
21:36
Speaker 3: and then I put on a great strong buy and everything,
21:39
Speaker 3: and actually shape price did well for about three months.
21:41
Speaker 3: And then Richard Utriz was running JB High five at
21:44
Speaker 3: the time. He came over and saw me. He's like, Jabab,
21:48
Speaker 3: have you been to the Strathfield store. That's almost question
21:52
Speaker 3: to me. He's like, have you actually been to the store?
21:54
Speaker 3: I was like, no, I've seen pictures. It looks fine.
21:58
Speaker 3: He's like, you should go and have a look.
22:00
Speaker 2: And was he there to chat to you about trying
22:02
Speaker 2: to invest in it? You never sell one, Jock.
22:06
Speaker 3: I didn't have sell but they just just essentially he's
22:08
Speaker 3: educating in the market, just listed yeah, doing a kind
22:12
Speaker 3: of road show and he's like, have you been to
22:13
Speaker 3: the store to obviously the pictures and everything. And then
22:17
Speaker 3: I thought, oh, damn, I probably should go and see
22:19
Speaker 3: the store. And I did go see the store, was saying,
22:21
Speaker 3: oh god, this is not like JB High Fi. Majority
22:24
Speaker 3: of the store was designated to the car radio and
22:26
Speaker 3: then there's a couple of I think they have a
22:28
Speaker 3: big contract where the Optus or Telstra, they're like Telstra
22:31
Speaker 3: Optus love us, gave us all these big trailing revenue.
22:34
Speaker 3: We sell one mobile phone, we'll get paid so much
22:36
Speaker 3: and all that, and then tiny bit income stream electronics
22:39
Speaker 3: completely different, very old school, very dated. They're not in
22:42
Speaker 3: the shopping center, they're outside on those Paramatta roads and
22:45
Speaker 3: just very different vibe between the stores. And then it's
22:48
Speaker 3: not efficient every category and JB HIGHI back then only
22:52
Speaker 3: just started selling a few category. They haven't started selling
22:54
Speaker 3: game yet, they haven't started selling PC. There were so
22:56
Speaker 3: many new categories to come, completely different, and I came
23:00
Speaker 3: back thinking this is not good. But anyway, I wasn't
23:03
Speaker 3: experienced that. I thought, look, I could write it.
23:04
Speaker 2: Because you made your decision right, and so going to
23:06
Speaker 2: back yourself in every written it's great.
23:08
Speaker 3: Yeah, and invested and I said it's great buy and
23:11
Speaker 3: then trying to convince everyone to buy. And six months
23:14
Speaker 3: later retail condition got a bit tougher, so consumer become
23:17
Speaker 3: tightened their pockets and everything else. Immediately, Strathfield they're like
23:22
Speaker 3: for like started going negative.
23:23
Speaker 2: Can you what year are we talking?
23:25
Speaker 3: Maybe it was two thousand and five. There was one
23:27
Speaker 3: year many retailer had downgrades. I think maybe it was
23:31
Speaker 3: May two thousand and five or two thousand and four.
23:33
Speaker 3: Winter was too hot as well. Everyone down graded because
23:36
Speaker 3: it was too hot. Jackets won't selling. A Just group
23:39
Speaker 3: was listed at the time as well, remember, but yeah,
23:41
Speaker 3: so just retailer when things got a little bit tougher.
23:44
Speaker 3: Retailer don't have strong business model. They just don't do
23:46
Speaker 3: it as well. People don't need to go to Strathfield,
23:49
Speaker 3: whereas jbhigfire because they have a strong business models, but
23:51
Speaker 3: they pull people in. People want to go and see
23:53
Speaker 3: what's going on or the excited excitement. So things started
23:56
Speaker 3: going backwards and the minute star for retailers when things
23:59
Speaker 3: going backwards, going negative, it's heavily leveraged because they don't
24:03
Speaker 3: have much debt but the lease. They have to pay
24:05
Speaker 3: a lot on the lease, so there's not much room
24:07
Speaker 3: to move for regiler.
24:08
Speaker 2: Start to see it turn negative. But you realize, as
24:11
Speaker 2: we spoke about earlier, it's like you've made a decision
24:13
Speaker 2: and you don't You don't sell out when things get volatile.
24:16
Speaker 2: So did you stay? Oh no, no, So I got
24:19
Speaker 2: this one wrong.
24:19
Speaker 3: Yeah, because I realized how quickly things can get bad,
24:22
Speaker 3: and so the minute it turns negative. I think I
24:25
Speaker 3: sat there for six months, longer than I should six months.
24:28
Speaker 3: So when it started turning, I didn't move straight away
24:30
Speaker 3: because I thought it will get better. Maybe just patch
24:32
Speaker 3: your consumer. Maybe they just unlucky. Management always find the
24:35
Speaker 3: best excuses. Oh, this thing happened, too much rain or something.
24:39
Speaker 3: Always this. So at the end, so and they're six
24:41
Speaker 3: month later, I realized that the operating D leverage is
24:44
Speaker 3: very significant for a retailer. And for a retailer, by then,
24:48
Speaker 3: I have realized that there is something that whatever I
24:51
Speaker 3: thought it was special about the company, it was not there.
24:53
Speaker 3: I should have really visited the store, really see what
24:57
Speaker 3: was the value driver why people walk into that store.
25:00
Speaker 3: There was no reason. That's why when things are tough,
25:01
Speaker 3: people don't walk in.
25:03
Speaker 2: Do you remember how much money you might have lost
25:05
Speaker 2: with that investment?
25:06
Speaker 3: Oh I think I lost like twenty thirty percent of
25:08
Speaker 3: the investment.
25:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, all right, but it stuck with you all
25:11
Speaker 2: this time, and that mistake forever.
25:13
Speaker 3: It's just to do the homework right. It's about really
25:16
Speaker 3: truly understand the business instead of what management tell you.
25:19
Speaker 2: Seeing as we're going down back to two thousand and five,
25:22
Speaker 2: maybe if you could go back sort of twenty years
25:24
Speaker 2: or so, if there was a financial habit that you
25:27
Speaker 2: could have picked up back then, do you know what
25:29
Speaker 2: that would have been, just layering a good.
25:32
Speaker 3: Habit, financial habit. I think it's probably back then I
25:36
Speaker 3: was at the early stage of I do think reading
25:38
Speaker 3: financial publication is very important.
25:40
Speaker 2: Excellent, you can all read this and the Australia is
25:42
Speaker 2: the best.
25:43
Speaker 3: Well, that's right, that's right. I actually think it's really important.
25:47
Speaker 3: And these days that's where we read about the mergers
25:50
Speaker 3: and acquisitions, the rumored deal that's coming through. We'll get
25:53
Speaker 3: it from the paper. And in those days, still early days,
25:56
Speaker 3: I scheme through every now and then, but then you
25:58
Speaker 3: miss things also.
25:59
Speaker 2: You want as dead. It catered to reading and making sure.
26:01
Speaker 2: So if you could go back in time, you would
26:03
Speaker 2: actually just read more consistently.
26:05
Speaker 3: Absolutely every single day like as information, and process the
26:08
Speaker 3: information much earlier in the day. So how I process
26:11
Speaker 3: information these days? All the reading everything is done before
26:14
Speaker 3: a thirty, So everything is done before a thirty, So
26:18
Speaker 3: all the and the a thirty we have our team meeting,
26:20
Speaker 3: we talk about what we have absorbed. This includes everything
26:23
Speaker 3: what happened overnight, what happened to what happened in the
26:26
Speaker 3: US market, what sort of things that's change, Which company
26:29
Speaker 3: said well, which company had done great? And what's this?
26:32
Speaker 3: And they're also absorbing newsflow in Australian market before it opens,
26:36
Speaker 3: all the morning news, knowing what's going to change, and
26:39
Speaker 3: by a thirty we almost know how our market will open,
26:42
Speaker 3: which sector would do well, which company will go up
26:44
Speaker 3: and down, which announcement meant to earnings down, and all that.
26:48
Speaker 3: So by a thirty everything's processed.
26:51
Speaker 2: We'll return to our chat following this small breakthrough. Is
27:00
Speaker 2: there a piece of advice for someone like me or
27:03
Speaker 2: someone listening about how they can is the one thing
27:07
Speaker 2: that they should be doing that can make them a
27:10
Speaker 2: better investor or at least start to build that wealth.
27:13
Speaker 3: I feel like we're just all very busy, That's right.
27:16
Speaker 2: What can people do? You sort of juggling? People are
27:18
Speaker 2: juggling a lot.
27:19
Speaker 3: Oh absolutely, and it's a never ending I've got kids
27:22
Speaker 3: to myself, it's just constantly juggling. So look, I think
27:24
Speaker 3: the advice is that for someone wants to really learn
27:27
Speaker 3: about investing, because I do all of these beforehand, because
27:30
Speaker 3: I'm a professional farm manager, I meant to know everything
27:33
Speaker 3: about what's happening in the market. Then I can change
27:35
Speaker 3: my bed so I can be more active, I can
27:37
Speaker 3: respond to different things. But you know, if you're an individual,
27:40
Speaker 3: you're buying peel to your own portfolio, you don't A
27:43
Speaker 3: lot of these things are noise. As individual, you just
27:45
Speaker 3: want to want to grow your own wealth. You may
27:47
Speaker 3: one year you do a bit worse than the share market,
27:50
Speaker 3: but it doesn't matter. You pick the company that's still
27:52
Speaker 3: gone up. So it's a very different dynamic. But for
27:55
Speaker 3: individual it's really about I feel, it's about the find
27:59
Speaker 3: the company you really understand and its quality, so they
28:02
Speaker 3: get much less headache when you find a spivvy stock.
28:06
Speaker 3: When you get a hot tip from somebody, usually hot
28:08
Speaker 3: tap are bad because somebody told you the hot tip
28:11
Speaker 3: would probably means that many other people already got that
28:13
Speaker 3: hot tip a long time ago, and then you might
28:15
Speaker 3: be the last person before it become not so hot.
28:17
Speaker 3: And a lot of hot tip is fine, but it
28:20
Speaker 3: just means they've probably it's gone up a lot, gone
28:22
Speaker 3: very expensive. One of the example is recently there's all
28:25
Speaker 3: these defense companies, Yeah, gone through the roof, that's right,
28:28
Speaker 3: trying to sign up and everything, and I would say
28:30
Speaker 3: a lot of them has a lot of hot air
28:32
Speaker 3: in it, so they're not really training on how much
28:34
Speaker 3: earning is multiple and the traditional things you're looking at
28:37
Speaker 3: they're training are it's hot. We just got to get
28:39
Speaker 3: in because there's only a few of them. So these
28:41
Speaker 3: companies when they it's just risky, right, you got to
28:43
Speaker 3: watch them because if suddenly one day people go, oh,
28:47
Speaker 3: you're maybe it's not spending as much or maybe actually
28:50
Speaker 3: a company didn't win quite that many contract because the
28:52
Speaker 3: ship the amount of shapper's gone out, people waiting for
28:55
Speaker 3: a lot of contract to come through. So that's rich.
28:57
Speaker 3: So I just think stayed with the company, especially you
29:00
Speaker 3: can touch and feel, you understand the product and in
29:03
Speaker 3: the quality larger blue tip. It's just much much easier,
29:07
Speaker 3: less headache, you don't have to be on call suddenly
29:09
Speaker 3: something happens, share price down twenty Just invest is that
29:12
Speaker 3: the message just in state you have to get started.
29:15
Speaker 3: Don't invest in ETF for ETF is his least lazy
29:17
Speaker 3: way of doing.
29:18
Speaker 2: So ETFs are booming.
29:21
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's now active ETF coming. Actually we launching it
29:24
Speaker 3: active ETF as well, So that's with active manager ETF
29:28
Speaker 3: is fine, but you're not really learning. So if you
29:30
Speaker 3: really want to learn about investing, when we talk about
29:33
Speaker 3: understanding company, you're doing all that homework. That's big part
29:36
Speaker 3: of the treasure hunting, right, that's the fun part. So
29:38
Speaker 3: that's when you if you pick a company, it forces
29:42
Speaker 3: you to learn about it. So that's actually investing part.
29:45
Speaker 3: But if you're put in the ETF, that's more grow
29:48
Speaker 3: wealth part. So because if you want to just an
29:50
Speaker 3: easy way just okay, I just want to go with
29:52
Speaker 3: the share market, put in the ETF. That's an easy
29:55
Speaker 3: way to do it as well.
29:55
Speaker 2: So we're talking defense stocks, so I might not be
29:58
Speaker 2: able to pick the winner of who's going to get
29:59
Speaker 2: the content, but I would think my logic would say
30:02
Speaker 2: by the defense ETF, so you can spread the risk.
30:05
Speaker 3: So the challenge with that is that you've got to
30:07
Speaker 3: be early, right because when the hot air comes out,
30:09
Speaker 3: the whole thing goes. Yeah yeah, So it doesn't matter
30:12
Speaker 3: which one you're in, so it's just the whole thing goes.
30:14
Speaker 3: So I always feel the thematic there is a lot
30:17
Speaker 3: of thematic ETF, but when you look at your own portfolio,
30:20
Speaker 3: you don't want to have a big part of it
30:22
Speaker 3: in it. You have a small part. It's almost like
30:24
Speaker 3: part little bit on this. But my core portfolio are
30:27
Speaker 3: these things. We know the core things because the other
30:30
Speaker 3: one can be very volatile.
30:31
Speaker 2: Juinbe we are fast running out of time. So I
30:34
Speaker 2: do want to put our fast five to you, five
30:36
Speaker 2: sort of rapid fire questions just to see how we go.
30:40
Speaker 2: First up, morning or night. When do you make your
30:43
Speaker 2: best financial decisions?
30:44
Speaker 3: Morning morning?
30:45
Speaker 2: Okay, before a thirty, before thirty, when you've done all
30:48
Speaker 2: the digesting. Yeah, that's offee is fresh. I'm assuming this
30:50
Speaker 2: coffee in the morning.
30:51
Speaker 3: H lets of coffee?
30:52
Speaker 2: Okay, power you through if you could invest in one
30:56
Speaker 2: thing for the next ten years, so you're only gonna
30:59
Speaker 2: forget about the actually forget about the I'm only allowing
31:01
Speaker 2: you to invest in one thing for the next ten years.
31:03
Speaker 2: What would it be?
31:04
Speaker 3: Yeah, you miss stock stock.
31:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe that's trying to be a little bit specific.
31:09
Speaker 2: You get up.
31:09
Speaker 3: I only I got plen of that, But I think
31:12
Speaker 3: I'm just going to give a very high quality one,
31:14
Speaker 3: which is Cochlear. We know Cochlear, great company in Australia,
31:18
Speaker 3: a huge, huge amount of years of that strong execution
31:21
Speaker 3: globally not expensive relative to others. Yeah, I think it's
31:24
Speaker 3: it's going to continue to grow.
31:26
Speaker 2: Okay, is there any investment app you can't live without?
31:29
Speaker 3: Investment app? Bloomberg?
31:31
Speaker 2: Okay, the terminal Bloomberg is a thing you can't live without.
31:36
Speaker 2: Like if I took it away, you would actually have
31:38
Speaker 2: a difficult day.
31:39
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think yeah, because Bloomberg is a professional one
31:42
Speaker 3: where we get all the life pricing and the like.
31:44
Speaker 2: Here. What's the one thing you want your kids to
31:46
Speaker 2: learn about money or to know about money? Something you
31:48
Speaker 2: want them to really take away?
31:50
Speaker 3: Oh okay, that's a really hard one. So I want
31:53
Speaker 3: my kid I think the key thing I want my
31:55
Speaker 3: kids to start really understanding the value of money. I
31:58
Speaker 3: think every probably doing that. I want them to. Actually,
32:01
Speaker 3: the key thing is I want them to understand how
32:02
Speaker 3: to grow money. Actually already created lots of those savings
32:06
Speaker 3: to help them to understand you grow your money, the
32:08
Speaker 3: compounding effect of money.
32:10
Speaker 2: And are they so? How old are you kids? Again? Eleven?
32:12
Speaker 3: Then fourteen?
32:12
Speaker 2: Eleven and fourteen? And do they have their own investments?
32:14
Speaker 2: Are you letting them invest themselves or that?
32:16
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've been telling them about so they do so,
32:18
Speaker 3: but obviously they always pick the easiest, the Tesla, the
32:21
Speaker 3: Apple and these ones. So I'm trying to get them
32:24
Speaker 3: to whenever they see go to Woolworth and the like
32:26
Speaker 3: and then tell them the shares that's listed and everything else.
32:29
Speaker 3: So that's how I get them, essentially, the things that
32:31
Speaker 3: they touch and feel every day. The more the consumer
32:33
Speaker 3: goods product.
32:34
Speaker 2: Hey, what's the one thing money can't buy?
32:37
Speaker 3: Happiness? And look, I think the one thing money come by.
32:42
Speaker 3: I think lots of things money come by. Even in investing,
32:45
Speaker 3: always feel it's actually I do it for I just
32:48
Speaker 3: think it's so much fun in doing so, because of
32:51
Speaker 3: that treasure hunting, that journey, the resilience, you get things wrong, resilience,
32:55
Speaker 3: come back and learn, then do it again. So more
32:57
Speaker 3: than just money, it's actually for me, it's character building.
33:01
Speaker 3: It's incredible experience.
33:03
Speaker 2: A lot of people find investing quite intimidating. So is
33:06
Speaker 2: there a piece of advice you have for people who
33:08
Speaker 2: look at the success that you've got and think, oh gosh,
33:11
Speaker 2: how do I replicate that?
33:12
Speaker 3: Yeah? Look, I think I just get started. It's not
33:14
Speaker 3: intimidating at all, And it's not And remember you don't
33:17
Speaker 3: have to be accountant to do really well, but if
33:18
Speaker 3: you're countent, you'll still do it. It's not just numbers.
33:21
Speaker 3: It's actually so much more than that. We talk about
33:23
Speaker 3: some of those thematic and things. Every company is so interesting,
33:26
Speaker 3: and just have the curiosity and just get started.
33:30
Speaker 2: I think people think they need a finance degree or
33:32
Speaker 2: some sort of education in this. Is that sort of
33:34
Speaker 2: a big miss? Do you think?
33:36
Speaker 3: I think you don't need it. But remember when you
33:38
Speaker 3: build a portfolio for the first time, you first you
33:41
Speaker 3: pick the blue chip, the larger company and diversify. You
33:44
Speaker 3: need to have at least ten to fifteen stocks and
33:46
Speaker 3: don't just pick them out of one sector. So if
33:49
Speaker 3: you pick a bank, and then you could pick a
33:50
Speaker 3: growth company, you pick a gold company, pick just a
33:53
Speaker 3: bit of everything, just so your portfolio is diversify. It
33:56
Speaker 3: takes away a lot of risks when you do that.
33:58
Speaker 2: JIMBEI thank you so much, Thank you, thank you so
34:00
Speaker 2: much for having me, Thanks for joining me. I'm Julianne Sprague,
34:03
Speaker 2: Wealth editor at The Australian. We'll have another bonus episode
34:07
Speaker 2: of the Money Puzzle next week. We'll sit down with
34:09
Speaker 2: Roger Montgomery, a leading fund manager, a firm favorite at
34:13
Speaker 2: the Australian, a regular columnist. He wasn't always a great investor,
34:18
Speaker 2: and so we'll go back and learn how he launched
34:21
Speaker 2: the trade, some of the mistakes he made, and his
34:24
Speaker 2: advice for us