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3 Keys to Help Strengthen Intimacy as a Couple Pt 1 (Marriage Reset Series) - 273 · Marriage Life and More and Bible Study

0:06
Daniel Moore: When we think of lifelong love, most of us picture swans gliding gracefully across a lake.
0:12
Daniel Moore: Not a deep sea creature with teeth.
0:15
Daniel Moore: But the anglerfish takes becoming one to a whole new and slightly horrifying level.
0:21
Daniel Moore: The male latches onto the female and over time literally fuses with her body until he loses his eyes, organs, and independence, basically becoming a tiny patch of flesh whose only job is to provide sperm.
0:33
Daniel Moore: It's not exactly the romantic picture that we have in mind when we talk about two becoming one.
0:40
Daniel Moore: And yet, if we're honest, that kind of total fusion and how many people imagine marriage should work, losing ourselves in the relationship as if our spouse is supposed to complete us.
0:50
Daniel Moore: Even some Christian traditions, like the unity candle ceremony, unintentionally hint at that message.
0:56
Daniel Moore: But God didn't design marriage to erase our individuality.
1:00
Daniel Moore: He created us to be whole and complete in Him first, then to bring that wholeness into our relationship.
1:06
Daniel Moore: So today, we're going to be jumping into what it really means to become one in marriage, not by fusing together like anglerfish, but by growing together spiritually as two complete individuals rooted in Christ.
1:18
Daniel Moore: Welcome to Marriage Life and More.
1:29
Daniel Moore: This is a podcast about marriage, Bible and book studies, and we interview people that have inspiring stories.
1:34
Daniel Moore: I'm Daniel Moore, your host.
1:35
Daniel Moore: And over here next to him, you have my beautiful co-host, my awesome wife, Michelle.
1:40
Daniel Moore: Hey, hey.
1:41
Daniel Moore: Thank you for joining us this week.
1:43
Daniel Moore: Not familiar with our show, check out our website at marriagelifeandmore.com.
1:46
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1:48
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1:51
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1:54
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1:58
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2:00
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2:04
Daniel Moore: And we'd be thankful to you for doing that.
2:07
Daniel Moore: Also, our new book is out Marriage is a Mission, Living Out God's Design for Marriage.
2:13
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2:18
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2:22
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2:28
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2:31
Daniel Moore: And then we're also in the works of getting it on Apple Books as well.
2:35
Daniel Moore: So watch out for that here soon.
2:37
Daniel Moore: So just go pick yours up today, and hopefully you'll be blessed by that book.
2:41
Daniel Moore: Yes.
2:42
Daniel Moore: So it's a really good book.
2:44
Daniel Moore: So as we get started this week, we're going to be into episode eight.
2:50
Daniel Moore: We're still continuing our series on marriage reset, roommates to soulmates in your marriage.
2:55
Daniel Moore: And this week, it's three keys to help strengthen intimacy as a couple.
3:01
Daniel Moore: Monogamy is common across many species.
3:12
Daniel Moore: Penguins often form lifelong bonds.
3:15
Daniel Moore: Wolves are loyal to one mate until one of them dies.
3:18
Daniel Moore: Bald eagles and shingleback skinks rekindle their pairings with each breeding season.
3:24
Daniel Moore: Even the schitsosomen mensani, a parasitic flatworm, chooses a lifelong mate.
3:30
Daniel Moore: Of course, swans are the classic symbol of monogamous love.
3:34
Daniel Moore: We've all seen images of two swans forming an heart with their necks, devoted to each other forever.
3:41
Daniel Moore: Fish, however, rarely come to mind in conversation about lifelong commitment.
3:46
Daniel Moore: But one species stands out, the anglerfish.
3:50
Daniel Moore: You might recognize this eerie creature from movies.
3:53
Daniel Moore: It's the one with the razor-sharp teeth and a glowing appendage hovering over its head.
3:58
Daniel Moore: It's featured memorably in finding Nemo as the deep sea menace that startled Marlin and Dory.
4:04
Daniel Moore: But when it comes to romance, the anglerfish's approach, it's more grotesque than it is grateful.
4:11
Michelle Moore: The male anglerfish is drawn to the female by her glowing lure.
4:16
Michelle Moore: Upon finding her, he bites into her side and never lets go.
4:21
Michelle Moore: Quite literally, their bodies begin to merge.
4:25
Michelle Moore: Over time, his body fuses with hers completely, sharing blood vessels and tissue.
4:31
Michelle Moore: He loses his ability to see, eat, and move independently, eventually becoming a small patch of flesh that does little more than produce sperm.
4:41
Michelle Moore: This permanent fusion redefines the phase becoming one flesh.
4:47
Michelle Moore: So monogamy in anglerfish isn't exactly sweet.
4:52
Michelle Moore: It's more survival than romance.
4:54
Michelle Moore: Their union offers a disturbing metaphor for extreme dependency, one partner absorbing the other until nothing remains but reliance.
5:04
Michelle Moore: It paints a vivid picture of the kind of relationship some cultures idolize, total emotional fusion.
5:12
Michelle Moore: Think of how the media elevates this image from movie lines like You Complete Me to age-old beliefs about soulmates.
5:22
Daniel Moore: In ancient Greek mythology, humans were said to have once been fused beings with four arms, four legs, and two faces.
5:29
Daniel Moore: According to legend, Zeus split them in half, and ever since, each person has been searching for their missing piece.
5:37
Daniel Moore: I mean, it sounds poetic, but does it reflect a healthy partnership?
5:42
Daniel Moore: This myth echoes in modern relationships, sometimes even in faith settings.
5:48
Daniel Moore: You might assume, well, at least churches don't teach that message.
5:52
Daniel Moore: But wait a minute, let's take a closer look at that.
5:55
Daniel Moore: Many Christian wedding traditions, take the unity candle ceremony, for instance, unintentionally hint at the same message that wholeness is found solely in being joined with another.
6:08
Michelle Moore: Couples often use the unity candle in their wedding ceremony to symbolize the union of two hearts and lives into one.
6:16
Michelle Moore: Typically, two candles are placed on either side of a larger candle.
6:21
Michelle Moore: The smaller side candles represent the bride and groom as individuals.
6:25
Michelle Moore: The couple will take the individual candles and together light the large unity candle.
6:30
Michelle Moore: We love this traditional wedding ritual up to this point.
6:34
Michelle Moore: What happens next is where things go south.
6:36
Michelle Moore: After lighting the unity candle, the bride and groom proceed to blow out their individual candles, symbolizing the end of their separate lives to the two becoming one flesh.
6:47
Michelle Moore: Why are we picking on such a time-honored wedding tradition?
6:52
Michelle Moore: We believe the last part is a total setup for marriage failure.
6:56
Michelle Moore: As romantic as it sounds to merge the two hearts into one, like the anglerfish, we're searching the world over for our other half, we don't believe this is what God intends.
7:08
Michelle Moore: In the unity candle ceremony, if the only light that remains is the marriage candle, then the individuals no longer exist.
7:17
Michelle Moore: And then it's inadvertently implied that we no longer individuals and the marriage relationship is the priority.
7:24
Michelle Moore: That's codependency.
7:26
Michelle Moore: As we've said elsewhere, this is a huge problem because God created us first and foremost as individuals, capable of being full, whole, and complete in Him alone.
7:39
Michelle Moore: When we de-emphasize the individuals and prioritize the marriage, we unintentionally move the marriage from a precious gift from God to an idol.
7:49
Michelle Moore: This happens when our marriage relationships become the primary focus over our own personal growth as individuals.
7:57
Michelle Moore: The only internal aspects of the marriage are two individuals.
8:02
Michelle Moore: Jesus made it clear that there is no marriage in heaven.
8:05
Michelle Moore: For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.
8:13
Daniel Moore: And that was Matthew 22, 30 for that scripture.
8:17
Daniel Moore: Jesus came to restore people, not just institutions.
8:21
Daniel Moore: While God values marriage deeply, his love is ultimately centered on individuals.
8:27
Daniel Moore: That's why we suggest a meaningful change to the traditional unity candle ceremony.
8:31
Daniel Moore: Instead of extinguishing the individual candles after lighting the center one, leave them lit.
8:37
Daniel Moore: It's a small but powerful reminder that both spouses have their own significance and identity within the marriage.
8:43
Daniel Moore: This ties back to why in episode two we began the process of reconnection with the focus on personal growth.
8:51
Daniel Moore: A thriving marriage is built on two emotionally, spiritually, and mentally keep complete individuals.
8:58
Daniel Moore: We built on this foundation because real spiritual closeness between a married couple begins with each person's intimate walk with Christ.
9:06
Daniel Moore: It's that one-on-one connection with God that we discover our identity calling in fullness.
9:11
Daniel Moore: From the very beginning, God designed us to lean on Him with every part of who we are, our heart, our soul, our mind, and our strength.
9:20
Daniel Moore: He's our source, and the only one who can truly satisfy us.
9:24
Daniel Moore: True spiritual unity in marriage grows from healthy, growing individual relationships with Jesus, our Redeemer.
9:32
Daniel Moore: But here's the tension.
9:34
Daniel Moore: Many couples have strong personal faith, yet lack spiritual closeness with one another.
9:40
Daniel Moore: They connect with God separately, but haven't learned how to pursue Him together.
9:45
Daniel Moore: As we started off this episode, it kind of gave me a visual in my mind earlier when you were reading about that angler fish.
9:54
Daniel Moore: It scared me.
9:55
Daniel Moore: It's it's kind of funny because when you think about it, I I've thought so many times as I've grown up, it's always funny when you hear the jokes between the guys and the girls as far as about being married and how the guys, you know, they just give up their soul when they get married, and their wife takes over and they're the boss and all this kind of thing.
10:14
Daniel Moore: And as you were reading that about the the angler fish where it said he loses his ability to see, eat, move independently, just becomes a small patch of flesh that's a little more than produces sperm.
10:26
Daniel Moore: It just made me think I've heard so many times of different guys, it's like, yeah, I'm just the sperm donor.
10:30
Daniel Moore: That's all I am.
10:31
Daniel Moore: I just, oh my goodness, it was all I could do to keep from from laughing on that.
10:36
Daniel Moore: But you know, uh, there's probably a lot of marriages out there where the one spouse or the other probably does feel that way, unfortunately.
10:44
Daniel Moore: Um, and that's a shame because that's not really what marriage is all about, right?
10:49
Daniel Moore: You know, and I think that that's explained even more so when we got to the part there about that that the candle.
10:56
Daniel Moore: And I know you and I, I think we've talked about this a little bit before.
11:00
Michelle Moore: And this keeps coming back up because and you know, I again I never thought of it that way.
11:05
Daniel Moore: Yeah.
11:06
Daniel Moore: And this is something that happens all the time.
11:08
Daniel Moore: I mean, there's there's weddings to this day just that happen constantly.
11:12
Daniel Moore: It's a tradition thing, you know.
11:14
Michelle Moore: It is, it is a tradition thing.
11:15
Daniel Moore: It is a pr it is a pretty and a little cool thing, and it's supposed you know what it's supposed to mean.
11:20
Daniel Moore: Uh, you know, I I understand, you know, why people do it when they don't completely understand what they're doing.
11:26
Daniel Moore: And in essence, it's not if you blow the candle out that you're not going to be able to have a successful marriage.
11:31
Daniel Moore: It's nothing to do with that whatsoever.
11:33
Daniel Moore: It's just the meaning of what it's speaking.
11:35
Daniel Moore: Yeah.
11:36
Daniel Moore: And and truthfully, I think one of the biggest things that you and I have learned, especially, even through the experiences that we've been through, and then through all of the the studies that we've done here on the podcast and the marriage conferences that we've been to and all the different things that we've involved ourselves in marriage-wise, it always does come back to individual.
11:56
Michelle Moore: Yeah.
11:57
Daniel Moore: If you aren't healthy with who you are and not acceptable to who you are as your own person, first of all, and who you are in Christ, then how are you going to ever accept who you think you are when it comes to being married to me?
12:09
Daniel Moore: Right.
12:10
Daniel Moore: And then vice versa, if I'm the same way, if I have negative outlooks on myself and I'm not growing correctly, like I should be in a healthy manner, um, growing in Christ, growing in our relationship with a good, solid foundation underneath both of us, then we can't mesh very well.
12:28
Daniel Moore: Right.
12:28
Daniel Moore: We're gonna have a really hard time with that relationship part between you and I, because one of us are gonna be a little faulty.
12:36
Daniel Moore: So as we talk about some of this though, part of the problem is an intimacy issue, but it's also not just an intimate intimacy issue just between you and I in a personal level, but a lot of times there's some spiritual intimate issues there as well.
12:52
Daniel Moore: And it's real hard, even for couples sometimes, even if you go to church all the time, it's hard to get on the same page even spiritually.
12:58
Daniel Moore: Yeah.
12:58
Daniel Moore: I mean, your walk with God.
13:00
Daniel Moore: And honestly, for us to have a good, healthy, strong marriage from day one until the day that one one of us passes away or whatever, uh, it's really hard to have a really good, you know, honest marriage between each other without having God involved in it.
13:17
Daniel Moore: Um, I'm not saying it's impossible.
13:19
Daniel Moore: There's definitely people out there that are not believers that have great marriages.
13:23
Daniel Moore: I'm not saying anything, you know, against any of that.
13:26
Daniel Moore: But it is to me, it seems like it would be a little bit more difficult sometimes because when we have God in the picture, you know, it's our goal as Christians to also want God to be happy with us, for him to be okay with what we're going through in our life at that moment, that we're depending on him, like he has created us to to worship him and use our marriages as an aspect of worship to God.
13:48
Daniel Moore: There's just a lot that goes into that.
13:50
Daniel Moore: Actually, you know, the book that we have available goes into a lot about that.
13:54
Daniel Moore: Yeah.
13:55
Daniel Moore: And how the marriages are God ordained and how God, you know, He's there's a purpose for why we get married.
14:03
Daniel Moore: And it's not just to cohabit with each other and pay bills.
14:06
Daniel Moore: There's a lot more to it than that.
14:08
Daniel Moore: So as we uh talk here about, you know, connecting with God separately, uh, that happens a lot where spouses will have their own thing, but they never seem to ever come together and do things for God together because they haven't really learned how to pursue Him together.
14:42
Daniel Moore: And so we're going to talk a little bit here about being a spiritually disconnected couple and spiritual intimacy, those two words, while beautiful in theory, have stirred up confusion and even disappointment in our relationship at times.
14:57
Daniel Moore: Individually, we each strive to maintain a deep connection with God, but as a couple, there have been more than a few seasons where I wrestled with shame over our seemingly lack of a spiritual bond sometimes.
15:08
Daniel Moore: Despite my roles in leadership in the church, I occasionally felt like I wasn't practicing what I preach occasionally.
15:14
Daniel Moore: There were stretches in our marriage earlier on when we rarely prayed together or never had in-depth faith conversations.
15:21
Daniel Moore: I mean, Michelle can vouch for that.
15:23
Daniel Moore: I'd hear stories of couples who seemed perfectly connected in their faith and wonder, what were we missing?
15:29
Daniel Moore: You know, was I letting Michelle down?
15:31
Daniel Moore: You know, was it something to do with me?
15:33
Daniel Moore: Was our relationship spiritually broken somehow?
15:36
Daniel Moore: Well, early on, I assumed this part of our marriage would come naturally since we attempted to stay a church-going couple.
15:43
Daniel Moore: You just think that when you go to church, it's fixed.
15:45
Michelle Moore: Yeah.
15:45
Daniel Moore: You know?
15:46
Daniel Moore: And as time passed, that expectation faded, and we both ended up feeling hurt and disappointed by the lack of that connection, which then led into other deeper, you know, other things in our marriage that was not good.
15:58
Daniel Moore: So maybe our story, you know, as we share it here today, sounds familiar to you.
16:03
Daniel Moore: You know, perhaps life is so hectic in your home that you're lucky to exchange a few words each day, let alone open your Bibles together or even individually.
16:12
Michelle Moore: I think that's really where I have such an issue with of being so busy.
16:18
Michelle Moore: And I'm sorry to cut you off like that, but I'm I'm gonna just gonna be real.
16:22
Michelle Moore: I really struggle with that of finding time when I'm not so exhausted just to do my own Bible study.
16:30
Michelle Moore: Besides just being a Bible study or doing something with you.
16:36
Michelle Moore: Yeah.
16:36
Michelle Moore: And that's something I still feel like we we struggle to do because not necessarily you, I think you're always on the go with it.
16:44
Michelle Moore: It's more me.
16:46
Daniel Moore: Uh and it's I think that's a common thing, really.
16:50
Michelle Moore: Yeah, I wonder if other couples feel that way, like where one spouse is like, you know, anytime you they're ready to go, and the other spouse is like, I got this, I got that, I got that, and they can't get that time frame in their mind of I need to sit down and just study with my husband.
17:06
Michelle Moore: Yeah.
17:06
Michelle Moore: And I'd like to just I mean, here's my question.
17:09
Michelle Moore: How many couples do study together?
17:12
Daniel Moore: Yeah.
17:12
Daniel Moore: Um at any given time.
17:14
Daniel Moore: Yeah.
17:15
Michelle Moore: I mean, in all reality, yes, we are going over this study, but how many couples do?
17:20
Michelle Moore: Like, I'm just curious.
17:22
Daniel Moore: Yeah.
17:22
Daniel Moore: And maybe you could drop that in the comments, you know, just kind of give us what your uh process is of actually breaking open the word together and having moments where you guys, you know, study together.
17:33
Daniel Moore: What's your process and how did you overcome not doing it?
17:37
Daniel Moore: Yeah, I mean because that is a hurdle, I think, that a lot of married couples have a hard time jumping.
17:42
Michelle Moore: We can both have our separate spiritual walk, but to have that togetherness, I mean, we do pray together and stuff like that, but to really study and do things like that, I we I I struggle with that.
17:54
Michelle Moore: Yeah.
17:54
Michelle Moore: Not necessarily you, but I do.
17:56
Daniel Moore: Yeah.
17:57
Michelle Moore: Sorry, being real.
17:58
Daniel Moore: Yeah, and that's what it's all about.
18:00
Daniel Moore: We're gonna get more real here just because along.
18:02
Michelle Moore: Yay.
18:03
Daniel Moore: So so maybe your spouse hesitates when you suggest praying as a couple or resist going to church.
18:08
Daniel Moore: And I know that's a calm denominator with a lot of couples.
18:12
Daniel Moore: It could be that your partner just avoids talking about spiritual matters altogether.
18:16
Daniel Moore: You know, maybe the two of you pursue your personal walks with God passionately, but you've never figured out how to engage spiritually as one.
18:22
Daniel Moore: Well, the good news is, as Michelle and I have been talking here, you are not alone if you have this situation going on in your marriage.
18:30
Daniel Moore: Spiritual connection within marriage is something many couples desire, but they struggle to develop it.
18:36
Daniel Moore: It's a challenge that can leave you wondering if something is missing.
18:39
Daniel Moore: In fact, at any given time, you can ask couples to talk about their shared spiritual lives, and sometimes even these longtime Christian couples will admit the same thing.
18:49
Daniel Moore: They either wish that they were more spiritually united or admit that they lack spiritual connection altogether.
18:55
Daniel Moore: So, why is it so hard to develop a shared spiritual rhythm in marriage?
19:00
Daniel Moore: You know, looking back at our own spiritually dry seasons that Michelle and I have had and what we've learned through listening to others, there's some identifiers here I think that uh can be some common barriers that keep couples from experiencing true spiritual intimacy.
19:15
Daniel Moore: And, you know, as Michelle and I were talking, I think one of the things that I've seen between you and I, uh sometimes one spouse I think can feel inferior to another.
19:26
Daniel Moore: Uh there's going to be a lot of times when, so, so myself, just give us as an example, I actually grew up in a very strict legalistic church environment.
19:37
Daniel Moore: And along with that, I ended up going to a Christian school.
19:41
Daniel Moore: So all my 12 years in school, I was in a Christian academy, a Christian school that I went to.
19:48
Daniel Moore: Uh, you've heard me bad mouth it many, many times about everything I had to go through with all of that.
19:55
Daniel Moore: And but as a kid, you know, there's a lot of things that they were they were just very strict with rules and stuff like that.
20:02
Daniel Moore: As an adult, when I look back at it, I understand the the process of some of it.
20:06
Daniel Moore: I believe some of it was unnecessary, but uh, but one core thing though that I can always say, and I've said this many times, I am thankful for the Bible teaching that I got when I was there.
20:18
Daniel Moore: Uh, we had chapel every Friday.
20:20
Daniel Moore: I mean, what we had Bible class.
20:21
Daniel Moore: I mean, that was an actual class that we took through every grade.
20:25
Daniel Moore: We had Bible class.
20:27
Daniel Moore: And a lot of our uh things that we had to do to pass tests and things in that was to memorize scripture passages.
20:34
Daniel Moore: I mean, they would, as you got older and got into higher grades, you were getting three, four chapters at a time that you had to memorize, and you got graded on how many words you missed when you repeated it back for testing.
20:45
Daniel Moore: And so, in that aspect of things, I'm very fortunate because I had a lot of Bible study throughout, you know, as a kid.
20:52
Daniel Moore: And even if I even it if it wasn't my cup of tea at that time, because you know, kids are rebellious and want to do our own thing.
20:59
Daniel Moore: Uh, sometimes we don't we're not in church like we should be when we're young, you know how all that goes.
21:03
Daniel Moore: I was one of those.
21:05
Daniel Moore: And but I still had that stuff embedded in me.
21:09
Daniel Moore: I still had to memorize it.
21:11
Daniel Moore: And so because of that, it did stick.
21:13
Daniel Moore: There's a lot of things that I probably don't remember that I studied when I was a kid, but uh, there's a lot of things that did stick.
21:20
Daniel Moore: And so a lot of other people though don't get that opportunity.
21:24
Daniel Moore: You know, they go to public school, uh, they probably, you know, went to church maybe on a regular basis as far as Sundays and Wednesdays, but that might have been all they really did.
21:32
Daniel Moore: There's some some families don't do devotionals with their kids during the week.
21:35
Daniel Moore: You know, there's just a lot of factors that go into that.
21:37
Daniel Moore: So I can see where two spouses could get together, and if one really knows a lot about the Bible and knows a lot about God or whatever, and then the other one comes into the equation and doesn't seem to know as much, that there can be maybe a little bit of an inferior uh type of feeling that can happen there.
21:56
Daniel Moore: And I can see how that could probably cause someone to not have a good uh Bible study time together because of that.
22:04
Daniel Moore: What do you think on that kind of thing?
22:07
Michelle Moore: Yeah, I'd agree with what you're saying.
22:09
Daniel Moore: Um, so there's a lot of different issues that can cause this spiritual connection.
22:13
Daniel Moore: Yeah.
22:13
Daniel Moore: There really is.
22:14
Daniel Moore: And it even comes down to just the hunger in your heart.
22:17
Daniel Moore: You know, one spouse can be more hungry for God and want to do the things of God, the other one may not be there yet.
22:23
Daniel Moore: But there are some things also that come up, and Michelle, share that that first one with us there.
22:28
Michelle Moore: Yeah, spiritual attack.
22:30
Michelle Moore: It's easy to forget that your marriage exists in the middle of a greater conflict, one that isn't just about communication or compatibility, but about the unseen spiritual realm.
22:42
Michelle Moore: The real battle for your relationship is taking place beyond what the eye can see.
22:47
Michelle Moore: As the scripture reminds us, we aren't fighting against people, but against dark spiritual powers, unseen forces that seek to divide and destroy what God designed for unity and strength.
22:58
Michelle Moore: You can find that in Ephesians 6 12.
23:01
Michelle Moore: Don't ignore the reality.
23:03
Michelle Moore: Your spiritual connection as a couple is under attack, and the stakes are high.
23:09
Michelle Moore: And I would agree with that 100%.
23:12
Daniel Moore: What happens every time me and you try to get closer to God and try to do things for God, we start getting attacked almost every time.
23:20
Michelle Moore: And you have to step back to the case.
23:20
Michelle Moore: Sometimes, you know, is it a spiritual attack or is it something that you created in the first place?
23:28
Michelle Moore: You know, those are the two things that you have to really look at.
23:32
Michelle Moore: And I feel like a lot of times if you're trying to get closer to God, you're gonna know it's a spiritual attack.
23:37
Daniel Moore: Yeah.
23:37
Daniel Moore: And usually if you are not sure if Satan is fighting you or if it is just a personal problem, like what you're saying there, a lot of times the way that you can kind of detect the difference between the two is when you get attacked all the time, is there a pattern?
23:57
Daniel Moore: Is there a pattern of attack that seems to happen to you?
24:00
Daniel Moore: And no matter what you do to try to correct that, the next step that you take, that pattern happens again and it tries to set you back.
24:09
Daniel Moore: Uh Satan has ways that he likes, he knows where our weaknesses are at.
24:13
Daniel Moore: He knows exactly how to get under our skin.
24:16
Daniel Moore: And he knows that if we step out to do something in Christ, as e individually or as a couple or as a family, doesn't matter what it is, as long as we're stepping out for God and trying to grow the kingdom and do God things and do the things that he wants us to do.
24:32
Daniel Moore: Satan he knows enough about how to attack us to try to bring us down, and he knows those weak spots where he can start shooting those arrows.
24:40
Daniel Moore: And a a lot of that you have to be in a lot of prayer um when those types of things happen.
24:46
Daniel Moore: And, you know, like with us, I feel like that a lot of the things that we went through back when we did, I do think I do think there was a lot of spiritual attack there uh to an extent.
24:59
Daniel Moore: Uh you and I weren't necessarily as serious about our relationship with God at that time when all of that stuff was going on, but we still had those roots.
25:08
Daniel Moore: We still had the foundation.
25:10
Daniel Moore: We both grew up in church, we both had uh Christian families that we grew up in.
25:15
Daniel Moore: We both had been in leadership, you know.
25:17
Daniel Moore: He was trying to destroy all of that, and he was being very effective, but we were also allowing it.
25:24
Daniel Moore: We were creating issues within our own selves that we could have personally corrected, uh, you know, with the the dishonesty that I had and the things that I the baggage that I brought into it and then the path that you ended up taking.
25:38
Daniel Moore: Those were choices.
25:39
Daniel Moore: Yes.
25:39
Daniel Moore: I'm not saying that they weren't.
25:41
Michelle Moore: I was gonna say, yes.
25:42
Daniel Moore: But at the same time, Satan got his wish, you know.
25:47
Daniel Moore: He he had he started attacking from the very beginning with the mind games and all the different things that were going on, and then we fell for it.
25:54
Michelle Moore: Yeah.
25:54
Daniel Moore: And so that's things as a married couple within your families that you have to watch for, yeah.
25:59
Daniel Moore: Is make sure that Satan can't get that foothold in there because it's super dangerous when that happens.
26:04
Daniel Moore: Or anything else you want to add to that spiritual attack point there.
26:08
Daniel Moore: Uh get on your knees and pray.
26:10
Daniel Moore: When you when you start having any if there are walls that seem to be all of a sudden being created between you and your spouse, and you start having friction, you start having issues where you just cannot connect, it doesn't seem like your communication's there anymore.
26:26
Daniel Moore: Our suggestion is just get on your knees and start praying.
26:30
Michelle Moore: Yeah, I really one of the things that I pray over is I plead the blood over my marriage, you know.
26:37
Michelle Moore: Um, and and my mind.
26:39
Michelle Moore: I mean, honestly, because a lot of times that's you know, he he attacks to make us think things are there or thoughts sometimes.
26:48
Michelle Moore: And so I just really I'm I plead the blood over our marriage every day.
26:52
Daniel Moore: Yeah.
26:52
Daniel Moore: You can't go wrong when you do that for sure.
26:56
Daniel Moore: So that's one of the first barriers that can keep you from experiencing spiritual intimacy is spiritual attack.
27:03
Daniel Moore: The second one is differences.
27:05
Daniel Moore: You know, every person experiences God in a slightly different way, and learning to bring those differences together in a relationship can take some intentional effort.
27:14
Daniel Moore: It can be tricky to merge two spiritual rhythms that don't always align.
27:19
Daniel Moore: In his book Sacred Pathways, Gary Thomas created a helpful framework to explore how individuals tend to connect with God most naturally.
27:28
Daniel Moore: This resource can help you better understand and value each other's distinct approaches to faith, which in turn can strengthen your spiritual bond as a couple.
27:37
Daniel Moore: For example, one term is being identified as a naturalist.
27:42
Daniel Moore: Being outside, immersed in God's creation while reading scripture, that would center you spiritually.
27:48
Daniel Moore: That type of person feels closest to God when they're surrounded by the beauty of nature, like reading the Bible by a flowing mountain stream.
27:56
Daniel Moore: Another example is a traditionalist.
27:59
Daniel Moore: That person would experience deep connection to God through structure and sacred practices, like morning devotions or participating in worship services.
28:07
Daniel Moore: You know, communion for me is a powerful moment.
28:10
Daniel Moore: It truly feels like a physical encounter with God.
28:13
Daniel Moore: And so as we think about these differences, this again, I think, probably may even reflect back to what I was talking about earlier, uh, where you know I had the full-blown Christian education from the time that I started school and came out of it, where you didn't.
28:30
Daniel Moore: And so you've probably had a lot more, had to put a lot more effort into your Bible studying and all that kind of thing to get where you are today.
28:40
Michelle Moore: Yeah.
28:40
Daniel Moore: Because you didn't have that Monday through Friday for 12 years through school.
28:46
Michelle Moore: And how many times do I tell you you're so lucky to have that?
28:50
Daniel Moore: And see, back when the in the day I didn't think I was.
28:52
Daniel Moore: Yeah.
28:52
Daniel Moore: You know, it's funny how you view that.
28:54
Daniel Moore: We take the things that are important for granted.
28:57
Michelle Moore: Yeah.
28:57
Daniel Moore: And that that old that old saying comes to my mind, you don't know what you've got till it's gone.
29:00
Daniel Moore: You know, it's a uh old Cinderella song, rock song.
29:04
Daniel Moore: But anyway, whenever you think about that kind of thing, there's a lot of truth to that because uh that's probably one reason I know no kids are you know or youth are probably listening to this podcast, but if I could give any word words of wisdom, uh the the education that you get when you're younger biblically, hang on to that and try and try to get as much of it as you can.
29:27
Michelle Moore: Oh yeah.
29:28
Daniel Moore: I know a lot of times as kids we're distracted with other things and we don't think about the things of God a lot of times.
29:34
Daniel Moore: But there does come a day when you get older and you get married and you have a family and you start trying to do things like God wants you to do that all of a sudden it does become important, and then you have regrets sometimes, you know.
29:45
Daniel Moore: Well, I should have done this back then or I should have done that.
29:47
Daniel Moore: And you don't want to be in a position like that, you know, where you have those regrets.
29:51
Daniel Moore: But if you do, you just need to start from that moment, push in and start studying and learning who God is and making the best of it.
29:59
Daniel Moore: Yeah.
29:59
Michelle Moore: Um God.
30:00
Daniel Moore: God will show you things and reveal things to you through his word, and it becomes a whole different world.
30:04
Daniel Moore: So, Michelle, share the the next barrier with us there.
30:07
Michelle Moore: Yeah, unsafe.
30:09
Michelle Moore: Sometimes people shy away from spiritual conversations because they feel unqualified or fear of being exposed.
30:16
Michelle Moore: Maybe you or your spouse hesitates to talk about faith because it doesn't feel like a safe environment.
30:23
Michelle Moore: You might worry about that your thoughts will be dismissed or that you'll be judged for how you express your beliefs.
30:30
Michelle Moore: It could be that you've experienced one or more of the following.
30:34
Michelle Moore: You often feel like your spouse is lecturing rather than listening.
30:39
Michelle Moore: Your spiritual practices are ridiculed or dismissed.
30:44
Michelle Moore: You've tried persuading or pressuring your spouse toward faith, but it hasn't helped.
30:50
Michelle Moore: Engaging in meaningful discussions about your beliefs feel tense or awkward.
30:56
Michelle Moore: Or perhaps your spouse constantly pushes you to do more spiritually, leaving you feeling criticized or not good enough.
31:05
Daniel Moore: And this is a tough one.
31:07
Daniel Moore: Uh as we do marriage mentorship and you know, talking to people that are having marital issues and that kind of thing.
31:13
Daniel Moore: One thing that we see quite often, and I don't think a lot of times the marriages, the couples realize that this is what's going on, but they don't have a safe spot that they can actually communicate with each other and feel like they're safe to share these intimate deep thoughts and feelings that they have without getting made fun of or without having criticizing comments being made or you know, sarcastic remarks being made.
31:38
Daniel Moore: And and I don't I know sometimes when you're with a spouse, you you do get comfortable with each other.
31:46
Daniel Moore: And I think sometimes it opens up a door to want to joke around about things even when they're serious matters.
31:53
Daniel Moore: Uh it can cause an issue there where you know a spouse may just want to joke around and make sarcastic remarks about things, not realizing how bad it's actually hurting the other spouse.
32:04
Daniel Moore: You know, they might be unintentionally doing it playfully, but it's doing damage.
32:08
Daniel Moore: But then you got spouses do it on purpose.
32:10
Daniel Moore: Yeah.
32:10
Daniel Moore: You know, it's like you have it from both sides, and we've seen it from both sides.
32:14
Daniel Moore: You know, we've seen where spouses, and it seems to happen more from the guy to the girl, where they're cut down a lot.
32:22
Daniel Moore: The guy will just speak over them, you don't know nothing, that's stupid.
32:27
Daniel Moore: You know, don't be saying stuff like that if you don't know what you're talking about.
32:30
Daniel Moore: I mean, there's, you know, many, many times me and you have heard that.
32:34
Daniel Moore: I mean, we know couples, I'm I'm sure you're thinking of some in your head right now.
32:38
Daniel Moore: Um, I've got some that I know that do that on a regular basis, and that does nothing but tear a person down.
32:43
Michelle Moore: Well, you know, I think back in the the in the day, we were somewhat like this.
32:48
Michelle Moore: So, I mean, obviously, you know, because we've been there, it's easier to when when you're reading it, it's like, oh, that was us.
32:59
Michelle Moore: That was us.
33:01
Daniel Moore: Yeah, and it's not it's not a good place to be.
33:04
Daniel Moore: No.
33:04
Daniel Moore: Uh, as spouses, you guys, you have to make some spot where you have a safe place where both of you, no matter what that issue is or how stupid it may sound to the other spouse, it does not matter.
33:15
Daniel Moore: You have to have somewhere that you both can come to where you can have a adult conversation about whatever's going on in your other spouse's mind and have a place where you can talk through that.
33:27
Michelle Moore: How many times have I come up to you and I'm like, okay, so I have something stupid to say?
33:31
Michelle Moore: Or oh my gosh, I need to ask you a question because I'm I'm not really understanding that.
33:35
Michelle Moore: And I know sometimes your face will be like, you didn't catch on to that.
33:39
Michelle Moore: And I'm like, no, I didn't understand what, you know, especially when in the Bible, I'm like, okay, I took it this way, and you you're kind of like looking at me, and I'm like, okay, that's not the way it should have been taken.
33:50
Michelle Moore: So I mean, you do have to have that safe space because I bounce things off of you all the time.
33:56
Michelle Moore: And notice I I am saying I bounce things off Dan.
33:59
Michelle Moore: Dan doesn't bounce things off of me, which I'm perfectly okay with.
34:03
Michelle Moore: And he, I mean, he's solid and because he's was raised that way.
34:07
Michelle Moore: But there are things that I'll take and I'm like, okay, I'm not understanding this context.
34:12
Michelle Moore: And so I feel safe to go to him, even though sometimes his face expression shows it.
34:18
Michelle Moore: But when he speaks, he doesn't ever ridicule me.
34:22
Michelle Moore: It's like, okay, this is how I'm looking at it.
34:24
Michelle Moore: And and you know, when he'll give me an example, which I'm very thankful for that, you know, because we do have that kind of relationship to where we can communicate and I feel safe.
34:35
Michelle Moore: Yeah.
34:36
Michelle Moore: You know, back in the past, it wasn't safe.
34:39
Michelle Moore: I would never say anything like that to you because I'd be like, uh yeah, you're gonna think I'm stupid.
34:44
Michelle Moore: But now I just bounce things off of you, and I'm just like, I don't get that.
34:48
Daniel Moore: That's how we learn, you know.
34:50
Michelle Moore: Yeah.
34:50
Michelle Moore: Um, the next one is sin.
35:10
Michelle Moore: When we engage in destructive or unhealthy behaviors, they create distance in our spiritual connection.
35:17
Michelle Moore: An attempt to hide our struggles or avoid confrontation, we often keep secrets or put on a false front.
35:25
Michelle Moore: This is not this not only numbs our sensitivity to God, but also prevents us from being truly transparent and known by our spouse.
35:34
Michelle Moore: The more we conceal, the harder it becomes to experience genuine closeness, both with God and with each other.
35:42
Daniel Moore: And we're not gonna spend a whole lot of time on this one because it is so self-explanatory.
35:46
Daniel Moore: Yes.
35:46
Daniel Moore: We've got one more to go through here as we close this week's episode.
35:50
Daniel Moore: So uh I'm not gonna spend a lot of time here, but guys, sin, that's a wreck.
35:55
Daniel Moore: It's a wrecker, it'll wreck you faster than anything.
35:58
Michelle Moore: Same thing as a woman.
35:59
Daniel Moore: Yep.
36:00
Michelle Moore: I'm I'm serious.
36:01
Daniel Moore: It doesn't matter what you do if you don't have God in your life and you're not following what he wants you to do, that path that he said before, you know, everybody was born for a reason and created for a reason.
36:12
Daniel Moore: God has a purpose for you in your life individually and as a couple and as a family.
36:18
Daniel Moore: He has a reason that you're here.
36:20
Daniel Moore: And anytime that you do anything to go against that and it becomes a sin, you're gonna have a hard time connecting spiritually with anybody.
36:30
Michelle Moore: Well, especially like when it said the false front.
36:32
Daniel Moore: Yes.
36:33
Michelle Moore: Anytime you put that false front on that closeness to God is it's gonna be destroyed.
36:39
Daniel Moore: You can fake anybody out you want to, but you can't fake out.
36:41
Daniel Moore: That's right.
36:42
Daniel Moore: God knows exactly where your heart is.
36:44
Michelle Moore: 100%.
36:45
Daniel Moore: And that's all that's gonna matter, actually, when the the time comes.
36:49
Daniel Moore: So the last barrier here that can cause us to have some issues with our spiritual intimacy between each other and between us and God is spiritually mismatched.
36:59
Daniel Moore: Sometimes couples find themselves on different pages when it comes to faith.
37:04
Daniel Moore: One partner may not believe or may not be spiritually engaged at all.
37:08
Daniel Moore: It could also be that one person is in a spiritually dry or difficult season, making it hard to connect on a deeper level.
37:15
Daniel Moore: In other cases, both spouses are followers of Christ, but come from different denominations or traditions, like one being Catholic and the other Pentecostal.
37:24
Daniel Moore: And that can lead to differing expectations and practices around faith.
37:29
Daniel Moore: So the impact that you have when you don't share spiritual intimacy is there could be tension Sunday mornings as one spouse pleads for the other to attend church.
37:39
Daniel Moore: There could be resentment when your spouse forces his faith on you, his or her faith on you.
37:44
Daniel Moore: You could be hurt when your spouse prioritizes their Christian friends and activities over spending time with you.
37:51
Daniel Moore: There could be conflict over how to spiritually raise your children.
37:54
Daniel Moore: You could be lacking a spiritual vision or a higher purpose for your marriage.
37:58
Daniel Moore: You could feel alone, unable to share the most important part of your life with your spouse.
38:03
Daniel Moore: You know, a shared spiritual connection between partners can be a deeply transformative element in a relationship, leading to some of the strongest forms of intimacy.
38:12
Daniel Moore: Interestingly, research backs this up.
38:14
Daniel Moore: A study conducted at Bowling Green State University found that couples who experience higher levels of spiritual closeness also report healthier overall relationships.
38:25
Daniel Moore: For both men and women, deeper spiritual connection was linked to more affection, laughter, and love, less conflict and criticism, and greater overall satisfaction in marriage.
38:36
Daniel Moore: The study also revealed that couples who are spiritually close are better equipped to handle disagreements.
38:42
Daniel Moore: Instead of allowing conflict to create distance, these couples often use their shared spiritual bond as motivation to stay respectful, kind, and constructive during tense conversations.
38:52
Daniel Moore: They draw on their faith to stay grounded and avoid harmful behaviors, even when discussing sensitive or challenging issues.
39:01
Daniel Moore: So this one here, I personally experienced myself because in my first marriage, I did marry someone that was a different denomination than me that was actually different enough that it caused some major issues because both of us were pretty solid in how we thought about the Bible and what it meant and all that kind of thing.
39:20
Daniel Moore: So we ended up going to separate churches, and then one stopped, and then both of us stopped, and then it was all over.
39:27
Daniel Moore: I was like, that was a personal choice.
39:29
Daniel Moore: I should never have let that happen, but that's what happens.
39:32
Daniel Moore: I mean, we just read through this list of tensions here that happened.
39:36
Daniel Moore: I had a grandmother of a good example of this where it did work fine.
39:41
Daniel Moore: I had a grandmother that went to church, but my grandpa didn't.
39:44
Daniel Moore: And but he never he encouraged her to go, he never criticized her or any of that kind of thing.
39:52
Daniel Moore: And you know, my my grandma was very deep in her beliefs, she was just a solid Christian.
39:57
Daniel Moore: And I I do believe that my my grandpa, when he passed away, uh he he did get a chance to talk to a couple of my uncles and my dad, and they they say that he did give his life to Christ there at the end.
40:08
Daniel Moore: But so it can work either way.
40:11
Daniel Moore: But I think more often than not, it seems like when there's an issue with spouses one one being biblically minded and the other one not, yeah, it really makes it hard on that biblical mind biblically minded spouse.
40:24
Michelle Moore: Yeah, I'd agree with that.
40:24
Michelle Moore: What do you No, I'd agree with it because I experienced the same thing.
40:28
Michelle Moore: And so it is very hard.
40:31
Michelle Moore: I mean, and I had the oh, don't go, stay home, you know, and eventually dragged me out of church.
40:39
Daniel Moore: Yeah.
40:39
Daniel Moore: Yeah.
40:40
Daniel Moore: So both of us have a similar story in our first marriages.
40:43
Daniel Moore: And when it comes to kids, that's probably the worst part of it.
40:48
Daniel Moore: Because if you have two spouses that are against each other's belief uh system and and what they truly how they truly want to raise their kids, um, when you have that happen, then it's real hard to raise your kids accordingly.
41:04
Daniel Moore: And then if you do end up divorced in a blended family situation, it gets even worse because your kids are in a Christian home, they leave for the next week and go to the non-Christian home.
41:14
Daniel Moore: There's obviously a total different set of rules there.
41:17
Daniel Moore: It's hard.
41:17
Daniel Moore: There's different things your kids are allowed to intake, and then when they come back, the the popular phrase is you gotta reprogram them.
41:24
Daniel Moore: So it's like all that kind of thing comes into effect, and all of that could have been avoided if both of you are on the same page with Christ and both of you had that relationship with God, just like Michelle and I.
41:37
Daniel Moore: If we would have uh we truly believe that we're both soulmates and we knew each other before we got married the first time, we really feel like that we God had us intentionally put together to begin with, but her and I made choices and went different directions.
41:50
Daniel Moore: Uh, but if you know, that what if question, you know, if if Michelle and I would have gotten from together from the very beginning, then maybe we wouldn't have gone through a lot of what we went through.
42:00
Daniel Moore: You know, you just you never know.
42:01
Daniel Moore: It's always best to err on the side of what God wants for your life instead of what you want for your own life individually.
42:09
Daniel Moore: So, and then having that spiritual vision, you know, I think how well how important do you think that is for us to have a spiritual vision with between us and our marriage and our with our kids and stuff?
42:21
Michelle Moore: Uh well I think it's it's very important because you're both like-minded and when you're like-minded, not only the things that you say or do is going to impact your children.
42:34
Michelle Moore: Yeah.
42:35
Michelle Moore: And it's going to show them that you know, your first love, it's God.
42:41
Michelle Moore: Go to God, you know, let Him guide you, direct you.
42:44
Michelle Moore: But to me, I wish it's something that we would have done from the very beginning.
42:51
Michelle Moore: Yeah.
42:51
Michelle Moore: And I mean, I see couples now that have always done that with their children and look at their children and everything like that.
42:57
Michelle Moore: And I'm just like, I'm not envious, but I'm like, I wish I would have done things differently.
43:02
Daniel Moore: Yeah.
43:03
Daniel Moore: It does truly impact your kids as they grow up.
43:06
Daniel Moore: It does.
43:06
Daniel Moore: It gives them a model to follow that's not truly a good model.
43:10
Michelle Moore: Yeah.
43:11
Daniel Moore: Hopefully your kids will notice that and they'll move on into their own model and they'll, you know, get right with God and do what they're supposed to do.
43:18
Daniel Moore: But as tradition goes, most kids follow uh to an extent they follow a little bit of the model they've seen growing up in their own home.
43:27
Daniel Moore: And if that carries on, that becomes a generational thing that eventually has to be broken.
43:32
Daniel Moore: You just can't let that continue if you're going to allow God to be in the middle of it.
43:38
Daniel Moore: So, so that's uh all of the barriers that can take place when we have issues being intimate spiritually with each other.
43:48
Daniel Moore: Uh, when we talk about intimacy, I know that the thing we always want to think about when we think about intimacy is you know the sex part, the physical part of that, but that's not all there is to that.
44:00
Daniel Moore: You know, there's also an intimacy of the relationship that we have with God between that triangle, you and I and God, that relationship that we have between each other and a good, strong marriage, I truly believe, will have a foundation of keeping God first.
44:17
Daniel Moore: And so as we close here today, we really like how Dr.
44:22
Daniel Moore: Less and Leslie Parrott describe the power of spiritual intimacy.
44:25
Daniel Moore: It says, for married couples, spiritual meaning should be shared pursuit.
44:30
Daniel Moore: Sharing life's ultimate meaning with another person is the spiritual call of spouses, of soulmates, and every couple must answer that call or risk a stunned, underdeveloped marriage.
44:41
Daniel Moore: Like yeast and a loaf of bread, spirituality will ultimately determine whether your marriage rises successfully or fells disappointingly flat.
44:49
Daniel Moore: The spiritual dimension of marriage is a practical source of food for marital growth and health.
44:54
Daniel Moore: No single factor does more to cultivate oneness and a meaningful sense of purpose in marriage than a shared commitment for spiritual discovery.
45:02
Daniel Moore: It is the ultimate hunger of our souls.
45:05
Daniel Moore: And I think that's an awesome statement to end this week's episode with.
45:10
Daniel Moore: So, how do we develop a deep, vibrant, shared spiritual relationship in our marriage?
45:16
Daniel Moore: Well, you're gonna have to wait till next week.
45:20
Michelle Moore: We excited.
45:21
Daniel Moore: We get to do a cliffhanger.
45:22
Daniel Moore: We're doing a two-part uh episode here again.
45:26
Daniel Moore: Next week we'll come back and we'll talk about that.
45:29
Daniel Moore: About how we can develop that shared spiritual relationship between each other, and we'll dig into it a little bit deeper.
45:35
Daniel Moore: So, you have anything to add to this week's episode?
45:38
Daniel Moore: No.
45:39
Michelle Moore: I think it's good.
45:40
Daniel Moore: It was a really good one that I think a lot of couples need to hear, and it doesn't get talked about very often, really.
45:46
Daniel Moore: And you know, this you go to church, and I think all the everybody just expects you to know how to do it, you know, and there's probably a lot of people out there that really do struggle with all of that.
45:56
Daniel Moore: So we're gonna call that a wrap for this week, and we pray that your marriage is stronger and your walk with God is closer after this episode.
46:04
Daniel Moore: This is an extension of Connecting to Gap Ministries, and we pray that you have a blessed week.