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The Ingrid: Introducing the Ingrid · TRi THIS Music: The Podcast

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  Speaker 1: This is Try This Music, the podcast. Subscribe and listen
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  Speaker 1: for free wherever you get your podcasts. Each week, we
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  Speaker 1: bring you conversations with groundbreaking new talent and the best-selling artists.
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  Speaker 1: Try This Music, a new music experience. Brilliant, brilliant.
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  Speaker 2: So I think the best place to start really is
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  Speaker 2: your guys' starting point and you guys formed at uni, right?
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  Speaker 2: So how did you guys come together and where did
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  Speaker 2: it get started for you?
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  Speaker 3: So for me, it originally started in Will's living room
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  Speaker 3: at uni and we realised we'd both done music for
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  Speaker 3: a long time And we were like, wait, we've been
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  Speaker 3: friends for ages. Why haven't we kind of done this
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  Speaker 3: and sat and done music together?
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, like collaborated together.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: And then through mutual friends, we met other people who
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  Speaker 3: joined the band as well. And it kind of just
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  Speaker 3: fell into place that way. And it's taken kind of
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  Speaker 3: many forms. Like sometimes it's quite collective. Sometimes we focus
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  Speaker 3: on solo stuff, but it really is just this kind
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  Speaker 3: of creative hub. that I think we've both grown really
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  Speaker 3: fond of.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, definitely.
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  Speaker 5: Like Jess said, we were both talking about making music
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  Speaker 5: in our own time and then just kind of went,
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  Speaker 5: why haven't we? Maybe it's because it'd be so obvious.
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  Speaker 5: But once we did, it just clicked like that and
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  Speaker 5: it was amazing, you know?
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  Speaker 2: Was this stuff that you guys were creating kind of
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  Speaker 2: individually similar to each other? Because you guys, the music
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  Speaker 2: that you're making now and the singles and the artwork
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  Speaker 2: that goes with it, it all seems really quite complex
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  Speaker 2: and quite stylized and unique. So when you guys were
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  Speaker 2: starting out, was that the vibe that you kind of
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  Speaker 2: saw in each other? You were like, okay, this is
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  Speaker 2: going to work really well because we all have a
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  Speaker 2: kind of, similar um vibe and a similar kind of
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  Speaker 2: style I.
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  Speaker 3: Think it's interesting because I would say we differ quite
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  Speaker 3: a lot actually with our own individual kind of positions
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  Speaker 3: with music like a lot of like I guess it's
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  Speaker 3: consistent that my solo work is confessional and as is
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  Speaker 3: the writing I do with the band confessional but we
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  Speaker 3: all come from quite different places with music I really
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  Speaker 3: like dream pop and shoegaze and just singer-songwriter folk will
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  Speaker 3: loves loads of.
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  Speaker 5: Stuff yeah like um i'm i'm way more into like
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  Speaker 5: my like my bluesy kind of stuff and like my
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  Speaker 5: muscle like surf.
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  Speaker 4: And like indie indie rock kind of like vibe but
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  Speaker 4: so but it works really well together you know because
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  Speaker 4: we've kind.
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  Speaker 5: Of blended it in in a way that just kind
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  Speaker 5: of well yeah it works it's really good yeah Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Before we get into like the music side, looking at
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  Speaker 2: the visual side as well, because it's something that a
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  Speaker 2: lot of new artists kind of miss, they miss out on.
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  Speaker 2: But you guys have really kind of capitalized on the
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  Speaker 2: visual world around the art that you create. So like
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  Speaker 2: the singles, like the visuals of the singles are absolutely stunning,
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  Speaker 2: like massively detailed and massively fall into the world of
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  Speaker 2: the single that I suppose you're trying to create. I
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  Speaker 2: suppose if you've got quite a few people involved and
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  Speaker 2: quite a few like collaborators do you find that process
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  Speaker 2: to be quite difficult or do you guys have I
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  Speaker 2: suppose like a similar vision also is it something that
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  Speaker 2: you guys enjoy doing I suppose it adds a new
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  Speaker 2: depth to the music that you're creating?
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  Speaker 3: We've been really lucky to work with a handful of
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  Speaker 3: really talented artists, a lot of which have started like friendships,
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  Speaker 3: Eva and Emma and Sophie, who were all the artists
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  Speaker 3: on the three singles we've done so far. I'll give
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  Speaker 3: you their socials after the interview because I really think
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  Speaker 3: it's great to promote them because they're all so talented.
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  Speaker 3: But I think it can be really easy to feel
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  Speaker 3: like it's a difficult process. But when you approach it
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  Speaker 3: with a mind of curiosity, it kind of eases that.
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  Speaker 3: And it makes it much more enjoyable to help create
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  Speaker 3: a world sonically, visually, and have it all come together.
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  Speaker 3: And I think we really align on that.
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  Speaker 4: Definitely. I would say that Jess is amazing with this
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  Speaker 4: sort of stuff.
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  Speaker 5: Like, I'm really, really, like, bad at online stuff.
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  Speaker 4: And Jess has clear vision. It's really, really good, honestly. So, like,
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  Speaker 4: kudos to Jess, to be honest.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah um as i say it's something that people miss
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  Speaker 2: um but it really it adds a new depth i
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  Speaker 2: know it's social media and social media is a bit
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  Speaker 2: lame but like it's i don't know it just adds
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  Speaker 2: a whole new world to the singles it gives that
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  Speaker 2: depth um and yeah it's i think it's amazing how
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  Speaker 2: you guys um manage to communicate all of the the
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  Speaker 2: messages that you want to communicate in such um kind
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  Speaker 2: of so seamless seamlessly. Um, and that brings me on
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  Speaker 2: to like the writing style, um, and the lyrics, um,
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  Speaker 2: how does this work with you guys as a band? Um,
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  Speaker 2: it's always really interesting, like a band's dynamic because with,
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  Speaker 2: when you talk to a solo artist, um, I suppose it,
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  Speaker 2: it would be a little bit easier, but with a band,
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  Speaker 2: obviously you guys have got so many different, you know,
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  Speaker 2: interpretations and, and people have different opinions. How does the
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  Speaker 2: writing style work for you guys? How is that kind
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  Speaker 2: of set up?
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  Speaker 5: Well, I would say that, again, honestly, Jess is amazing
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  Speaker 5: with writing, especially lyric-wise, if that's what you mean. Music,
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  Speaker 5: I would say that it's a bit more collaborative with
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  Speaker 5: all of us. But definitely, like, lyrically and structurally, Jess
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  Speaker 5: also just.
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  Speaker 4: She aces it, to be honest.
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  Speaker 5: Um.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess like whenever I describe my music to people,
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  Speaker 3: I don't tend to lead with I'm a vocalist or
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  Speaker 3: I'm a musician. Like, sure, I can play the guitar.
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  Speaker 3: I can sing, if that's your interpretation of that. But
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  Speaker 3: I would actually say what I like to do and
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  Speaker 3: the main thing that I like to do is storytell
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  Speaker 3: and story write. And sometimes the lyrics can feel really
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  Speaker 3: obscure and I like the restraint in that way. And yeah,
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  Speaker 3: I really, really enjoy that side of it. And I
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  Speaker 3: think it's always open to collaboration. There's no preciousness about it.
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  Speaker 3: And I think that really helps with how we run.
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  Speaker 5: I think it's how we come together to make a song.
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  Speaker 5: No one really feels like, that's my part, I can
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  Speaker 5: only do that bit. Everyone's very open and they're open
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  Speaker 5: to feedback and stuff. Let's say I'm playing a guitar
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  Speaker 5: part at some point and it doesn't really fit the vibe,
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  Speaker 5: we can be.
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  Speaker 4: Honest about that. That helps make it all get better.
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  Speaker 4: It's really nice, dynamic, really healthy, really good so far.
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  Speaker 2: Brilliant it's just it's just the fact that everything is
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  Speaker 2: so there's just so much detail no matter where you
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  Speaker 2: look with the band um it doesn't matter whether it's
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  Speaker 2: like on a pr side or from like an audience
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  Speaker 2: um side or your your side everything the eye for
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  Speaker 2: detail is like insane like every bass is covered um
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  Speaker 2: especially with each and every single um and the the
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  Speaker 2: themes and um I feel like the themes behind each
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  Speaker 2: song are quite deep and they're quite complex. Like the
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  Speaker 2: ideas around the song is quite complex. You're not just
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  Speaker 2: listening to something basic. It's everything feels very heightened. And
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  Speaker 2: I think that's what made you guys stand out to
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  Speaker 2: me at least. And I think that's what makes you
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  Speaker 2: guys stand out to your audience and your listeners, because
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  Speaker 2: it really is. It's not a waste of time. It's
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  Speaker 2: like you actually get something from the music, which is really,
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  Speaker 2: really nice. Do you think it's difficult to translate those
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  Speaker 2: ideas into into kind of like a music form? Or
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  Speaker 2: is it something that comes naturally? Maybe this is like
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  Speaker 2: for you, Jess. Do you feel like you write from
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  Speaker 2: a personal experience or are you more so inspired by
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  Speaker 2: the things that happen around you, like your world that
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  Speaker 2: happens around you?
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  Speaker 4: I think both.
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  Speaker 3: I've tended to describe writing as more of a compulsion
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  Speaker 3: than a hobby. It really is an outlet. Actually, our
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  Speaker 3: bigger release is called sublimation and that's pretty much a
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  Speaker 3: play on that word um that's the first time we've
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  Speaker 3: said that that's literally to sublimate um it's either a
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  Speaker 3: change in matter or it's a change in or a
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  Speaker 3: way of processing emotions into something productive and that's kind
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  Speaker 3: of what the collection of work does Um, but really it's,
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  Speaker 3: it's a bit of everything. Um, I really try when
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  Speaker 3: I write to not, to not write so definitively and
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  Speaker 3: leave room for a little bit of depending, you know, um,
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  Speaker 3: two things can be true at once. And that's what
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  Speaker 3: I really try and hold in my writing.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Um, I feel like it really comes across. Um, I
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  Speaker 2: feel like it really comes across. in just everything that
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  Speaker 2: you guys have done so far. Because it's only three releases,
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  Speaker 2: but it really does each and everything that you guys
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  Speaker 2: have done so far. Even if it's just a photograph,
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  Speaker 2: it seems to carry so much weight. And it's a
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  Speaker 2: bit like, as I was saying, with the social media
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  Speaker 2: side and how you guys present yourself in those kind
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  Speaker 2: of areas. it still feels very high quality and full
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  Speaker 2: of weight. How has the industry been for you guys
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  Speaker 2: and kind of navigating and working through the kind of
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  Speaker 2: production side? Because obviously you guys have been at uni
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  Speaker 2: and you're studying and stuff like that. And it's a
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  Speaker 2: very busy kind of time period anyway, like in general,
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  Speaker 2: as in just like living life. How do you balance
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  Speaker 2: something um that's so high quality like the band as
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  Speaker 2: a whole it's so high quality um and everything is
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  Speaker 2: so well thought out how do you balance that world
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  Speaker 2: and then how do you balance a kind of personal
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  Speaker 2: life and navigate the industry.
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  Speaker 3: I think sometimes better than other times really um there
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  Speaker 3: are some times that either work or personal commitments can
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  Speaker 3: take time away from music commitments and that's a bit
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  Speaker 3: of life and that happens. And I think what's important
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  Speaker 3: is that we always kind of support each other through it. Um,
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  Speaker 3: and I think the industry, you know, it's, I think
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  Speaker 3: to get into it in with all my thoughts would, would,
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  Speaker 3: would take a long time, but you kind of have
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  Speaker 3: to be in the computer to disrupt it. If you
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  Speaker 3: know what I mean, that was said by, um, the
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  Speaker 3: drummer on these tracks, Josh. And I think it rings
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  Speaker 3: true to a lot of things, but yeah.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, definitely.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah. I mean, like with, with, with workloads and stuff, sometimes, yeah,
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  Speaker 5: sometimes life gets in the way. And, and when we,
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  Speaker 5: when we were at uni, sometimes it was quite hard to,
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  Speaker 5: you know, to, to balance everything. Um, but you, you
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  Speaker 5: find a way, like, um, I mean, the, we always say.
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  Speaker 4: Like, like if you want to kind of, you, you, you,
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  Speaker 4: you got, you got to get it done kind of thing. Um,
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  Speaker 4: But yeah, we love it.
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  Speaker 5: And if you love what you do, you never work
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  Speaker 5: a day in your life kind of thing.
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  Speaker 4: So it's great.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Out of interest, when you guys were at uni, I
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  Speaker 2: don't know what you were studying. I'm not sure whether
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  Speaker 2: it was like music. But what we found when we
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  Speaker 2: were at uni and the reason why we started this
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  Speaker 2: was because we had a high expectation of what the
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  Speaker 2: industry would be. And that was what was sold to us.
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  Speaker 2: And so we were all really hype and we were
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  Speaker 2: studying and and this, that, and the other to kind
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  Speaker 2: of break out into music. And then when we got there,
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  Speaker 2: when we got to the tail end of studying, it
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  Speaker 2: was kind of like a letdown. Like it was kind
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  Speaker 2: of a bit flat and it was kind of very suppressed,
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  Speaker 2: at least in like an art kind of way. We
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  Speaker 2: felt kind of suppressed and kind of limited and you
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  Speaker 2: were always kind of agreeing to what somebody else wanted
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  Speaker 2: to do. And I'm curious about what your experience was
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  Speaker 2: like when you started the band. As I said, I
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  Speaker 2: don't know whether you were doing music and you were
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  Speaker 2: supported and kind of pushed into where you guys are now.
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  Speaker 2: If so, great, because obviously it was very beneficial. What
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  Speaker 2: was it like for you? Did you have that support?
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  Speaker 4: Were people there?
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  Speaker 2: Or have you guys kind of just figured it out
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  Speaker 2: on your own?
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  Speaker 3: I think a combination of the two. We both actually
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  Speaker 3: studied psychology at uni. And I'm lucky that I think
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  Speaker 3: I've always had a desire to create, whether that's physical
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  Speaker 3: media or music. And that's a side of me that's
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  Speaker 3: been encouraged by people around me, which is something I'm
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  Speaker 3: eternally grateful for. So I think we probably had less
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  Speaker 3: of a preconception of what the industry would be like.
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  Speaker 3: I had some experience because I wrote and did some
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  Speaker 3: performances and things solo before kind of as a late teenager.
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  Speaker 3: But I'm unsure. What do you think?
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  Speaker 5: I think I was even more in the dark than
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  Speaker 5: Jess was, to be honest, because I had never done
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  Speaker 5: really any sort of, like, actually putting myself out there
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  Speaker 5: at all work before.
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  Speaker 4: So this was a big eye-opener. And, yeah.
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  Speaker 5: we've like luckily we've had we've had some help along
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  Speaker 5: the way and also like we've helped each other kind
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  Speaker 5: of uh like work out how how to how it
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  Speaker 5: all works um but it was a bit of an
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  Speaker 5: eye-opener I mean when it starts getting to any industry
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  Speaker 5: I reckon is it is going to be quite difficult.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah it's um we love it it's like you know
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  Speaker 3: you get help from Sophie the artist I mentioned earlier
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  Speaker 3: you know she'll message me and she'll be like I've
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  Speaker 3: just created a lyric thing for limerence and I'm like
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  Speaker 3: that was so lovely and you didn't need to do
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  Speaker 3: that and it's incredible and you're so talented and that
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  Speaker 3: just having that help from the creative people around us
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  Speaker 3: has been so lovely because if nothing else we are
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  Speaker 3: just you know us josh producers sound engineers photographers artists
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  Speaker 3: we're all kind of doing the same thing and that
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  Speaker 3: is putting what's up here onto paper or pen or
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  Speaker 3: whatever it is um And I think that's something that's
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  Speaker 3: really nice about what we've done so far is everyone
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  Speaker 3: is everyone's for everyone.
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  Speaker 5: So, yeah. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, I hope you guys can see that the
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  Speaker 2: quality of everything, not just like on a music side,
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  Speaker 2: but also the industry side, how you guys have managed
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  Speaker 2: to navigate it and kind of figure it out for yourselves.
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  Speaker 2: I'm kind of glad you said that actually, because yeah,
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  Speaker 2: um it's quite a difficult thing to do and i
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  Speaker 2: think it takes a lot of bravery as well to
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  Speaker 2: kind of put yourself out there and be like look
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  Speaker 2: this is my art this is this is what we're
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  Speaker 2: doing um as a collective i think it's really difficult
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  Speaker 2: i think it's really really hard um so i think
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  Speaker 2: you guys should be really proud of yourselves um and
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  Speaker 2: i'm very glad that it's gone well um so far
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  Speaker 2: what keeps you guys motivated? What keeps you guys working?
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  Speaker 2: Is it like the audience? Is it being able to
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  Speaker 2: kind of showcase your art and what you're doing to everyone?
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  Speaker 2: What is the feeling that keeps you so motivated in
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  Speaker 2: doing what you're doing?
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  Speaker 3: For me, I know that I will always write like,
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  Speaker 3: I've been writing for the last seven years and that's
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  Speaker 3: something I'm going to continue to do forever, regardless of
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  Speaker 3: whether there's an audience to witness that or not, as
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  Speaker 3: long as I'm witnessing it, I guess. But it's nice
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  Speaker 3: to know, you know, you get comments on like TikTok
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  Speaker 3: or Instagram and someone saying, wow, I love this or, oh,
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  Speaker 3: this is so beautiful. When is this on Spotify? It
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  Speaker 3: just the fact that someone resonates with it and supports
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  Speaker 3: it does kind of think this means something. this means
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  Speaker 3: something to me, but look, this also means something to
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  Speaker 3: someone else. And that's really cool.
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  Speaker 5: I would say personally about like, just that feeling when you're,
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  Speaker 5: when you know, you're jamming out with your mates is
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  Speaker 5: just like, it's, it's amazing. And it's like, it's something
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  Speaker 5: that I never, I never really had when I was
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  Speaker 5: doing it alone kind of thing or practicing in my
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  Speaker 5: room or like by wrist and stuff. Just like, yeah,
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  Speaker 5: making music with your mates and then, you know, watching
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  Speaker 5: it grow into this, well, whatever they grow.
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  Speaker 4: Into at the end kind of thing. I'd say masterpieces, but,
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  Speaker 4: you know, that's just me. But yeah, that's definitely a
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  Speaker 4: big motivator.
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  Speaker 5: Just the happiness you get out of it, really.
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  Speaker 2: What would you say is your guys' ambition artistically? Do
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  Speaker 2: you feel like.
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  Speaker 2: You know, a few years down the line, um, you know, after,
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  Speaker 2: you know, a couple of VPs or a couple of
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  Speaker 2: albums or something like that, um, like a chain of singles, um,
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  Speaker 2: do you feel like, uh, I know we ain't got
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  Speaker 2: crystal balls, right? I know it's really hard. It's a
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: very hard question because it's the future, but would you
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  Speaker 2: hope that, um, where would you hope to be? Like what,
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: what kind of position would you hope to be in?
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  Speaker 2: Would you hope that you'd kind of got more experimental
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  Speaker 2: or maybe, followed the same kind of dynamic that's been
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  Speaker 2: working so well. Where would you hope to be?
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  Speaker 3: To be honest, I think there's room for anything. There
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  Speaker 3: are genres and things I really want to experiment with
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  Speaker 3: in the same way Will does. And sometimes we do
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  Speaker 3: that apart. Sometimes we then bring it back for the band.
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  Speaker 3: It's just a really enriching experience. And for me, I
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: could just continue at Hopes. Continue at Hopes. I hope
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  Speaker 3: it continues to be that way. And I hope that
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  Speaker 3: music continues to resonate with people and they can take
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: something away from it, whether it is the artwork or
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: the lyrics or the melody, you know, that genuinely is,
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: that seems pretty cool to me.
• 19:00
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I'd say sort of the same thing where I
• 19:05
  Speaker 5: just hope that like, we're still basically just doing what
• 19:09
  Speaker 5: we love kind of thing. I've seen so many bands,
• 19:13
  Speaker 5: I listen to so many bands where I've listened to
• 19:15
  Speaker 5: their first album and then I listen to their last
• 19:17
  Speaker 5: album and it just.
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: Sounds so completely different. And don't get me wrong, Change
• 19:20
  Speaker 4: is great.
• 19:21
  Speaker 5: But to the point of where it sounds nothing like
• 19:24
  Speaker 5: the original stuff or doesn't sound authentic to who they were, then....
• 19:30
  Speaker 4: Then yeah i just.
• 19:31
  Speaker 5: I i'd say that we just want to stay authentic
• 19:33
  Speaker 5: and keep creating things that we think are just you
• 19:36
  Speaker 5: know cool and out.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: There brilliant um brilliant to hear um that you guys
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: are so open um what would you say is um
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: your guys's proudest moment um so far in this process
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: whether it be with music or whether it be just
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: something that's happened together or something like that what would
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: you guys say is your proudest moment.
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: Um for me although it may seem small and futile
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: to others it was finally crossing 1000 monthly listeners at
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: once obviously that fluctuates all the time because of release
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: radar and all things like that but that had been
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: a goal of mine for so long as a tiny
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: little songwriter who was sitting on like 200 monthly listeners
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: which is still an amazing number um for years it
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: was really cool to actually see it like huh okay
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: maybe this is like people are beginning to understand what
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: I'm saying um yeah and and also just like on
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: a artistic level I think I've grown a lot as
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: a writer um even the stuff not even in this
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: kind of um project but I feel like the things
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: I'm writing now are more mature and I feel like
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: that's happened through practice and practice and practice um and
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: that's something that I think I can be proud of
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: if I let myself.
• 21:03
  Speaker 5: Um It kind of answers your question because it's not
• 21:05
  Speaker 5: really happened yet, but I think it will be my
• 21:07
  Speaker 5: proudest moment. We're going to be doing a gig soon
• 21:13
  Speaker 5: in August. So as soon as we set out doing
• 21:17
  Speaker 5: this band, we always had like one thing we wanted
• 21:18
  Speaker 5: to do. And I wanted to play live and play
• 21:21
  Speaker 5: the best show we could ever play kind of thing. So,
• 21:24
  Speaker 5: for me, that will be my proudest moment, will be
• 21:27
  Speaker 5: getting up on that stage and then playing our music
• 21:29
  Speaker 5: or to.
• 21:31
  Speaker 4: Whoever comes to see us, hopefully the fans, hopefully everyone
• 21:33
  Speaker 4: comes to see us. But, you know, that will be,
• 21:36
  Speaker 4: for me, just, you know, the best.
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: That's brilliant, guys. You have a lot to be proud
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: of because we still have so much time to go
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: with the band and you're going to do so much.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: And I just think what you've done so far is
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: just a real testament to the talent of you guys
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: and all your collaborators as well. Everyone who gets involved,
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: even as you say, if it's just a little social
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: media thing, it's crazy how much everyone can really blend
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: together and use that talent to really create something that's
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: just so good. So, yeah, you guys have so much
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: to be proud of. Is there anything in the future?
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: This might be a bit of a tough question because
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: it kind of depends on how you want this to go,
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: where this interview to go. So is there anything in
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: the kind of recent or later future? Do you guys
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: want to throw in anything that you want to tell anybody,
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: anything that we can be expecting if you want to?
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: We have a gig at the Heartbreakers in Southampton on
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: the 24th of August, which is a stripped-back set, and
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: it will be really dreamy.
• 22:49
  Speaker 4: And cool, hopefully. It will be.
• 22:53
  Speaker 5: It will be.
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: And then we have an EP coming out, and that's
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: the project we were talking about earlier. We're really proud
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: of that.
• 23:04
  Speaker 4: It's going to be amazing, honestly. Yes. Magnum opus me.
• 23:08
  Speaker 5: I don't even know what that means.
• 23:11
  Speaker 4: It's the best. It will be the best.