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Neil Oliver on rethinking everything we think about everything | Jerm Warfare · UK Column Radio

• 0:30
  Speaker 1: My name is Jim. This is Jim Wolfe the Battle
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: of Ideas.
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: I've been waiting a long time to say this, Neil Oliva,
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: thank you for joining me in the trenches.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: Oh, I'm delighted. Yes, the longer this attritional war goes on.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: It's been six years for me now, but I generally
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: jump on every opportunity to talk. Whenever someone makes contact
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: with me and wants a conversation, I'm more than happy
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: to be the other half of it.
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: I've been strugging now for years to get you on.
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: I'm not quite sure why. It might just be the
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: fact that I've had the wrong contact details all along.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, obviously, just you know, just recently there I did
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: another conversation with James delling Pole on the Yeah me too,
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: you know, so we've got that mutual connection. And then
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: he subsequently said that you were looking to connect with me.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: So really, that was the first time I became aware
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: that you wanted to make contact with me. So I
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: just said yes, And then you said that we also
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: had another mutual friend in common, that's Nick Hudson. Your Yeah,
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: I've been talking to Nick now for years, ever since
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: goodness knows, you know, through his pan data. You know,
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: all these your researches and study of what was going
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: on during the COVID debacle. So I've known Nick for years,
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: So how by what means we've managed to not make contact?
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: It was mysterious, it is.
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: But now listen, because this is your first time on
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: my on my show. I know you've been on UK
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: Column before, and this obviously is for UK Column or
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: haven't you know?
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: I couldn't could I couldn't deny it, but obviously, like you,
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: you know, I've been a guest on so many different platforms.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: I don't remember them all, but I may well have done.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: I'm certainly very aware of UK Column. Whether or not
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: I've actually been interviewed or taken, I couldn't say either way.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: Well, because this is your first time then on my show,
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: I just want to go through a little bit of
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: your background just because it's so interesting. I'm you know,
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: you're actually an archaeologist.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean a thousand years ago. Really. I left
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: school in the eighties and I went to Glasgow University
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: and I studied for a degree in archaeology just appealed
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: to me. I was always interested in things, you know,
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: historical and so on in archaeology seemed like a really good,
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: slightly different avenue to go down, and you know, I worked. Then,
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: I got my degree, and I worked as a digger,
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: you know, for a few years. I excavated numerous sites,
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: and then and then I stopped. I found that I
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: couldn't make any money. Basically, it was a it was
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: a fascinating subject, but it was very difficult to make
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: a living, so I retrained. Then, at that point in
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: my I suppose I was probably in my early mid twenties,
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: I retrained as a journalist. I joined a local newspaper
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: in the southwest of Scotland where I grew up, and
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: I qualified again. I did a three year indenture with them,
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: and they trained me up and I got shorthand and
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: typing and all of this stuff of a cub reporter.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: And then, you know, and then I went off in
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: a slightly different, slightly different direction. But over the years,
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: you know, archaeology and history came back in and by
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: the end of the millennium, around ninety nine two thousand,
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: I stumbled into television and the television that I ended
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: up making for quite a long time was about history
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: and archaeology. So I kind of, you know, I took
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: a d tour and then ended up back in the
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: same place.
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: When it comes to archaeology, I've come to the conclusion
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: that most of what we understand about history is just wrong.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: You've you go straight into the you' straight in at
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: the number one rabbit hole there. For me, yeah, I
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: was like you. Twenty twenty was definitely the turning point
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: year for me. By which point, let's say, where when
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: I was I was fifty three. I suppose in twenty twenty,
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: you know, so I've been around, I've been around the houses,
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: as we say, and I thought I knew stuff. And
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: I had always been interested in history and archaeology, but
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: I depended on what I had been taught. You know.
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: I went to a state school in Scotland, you know,
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: just a regular school, and then I went to university
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: and I listened to what I was told, and I
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: you know, qualified and passed exams in that. By now,
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: six years into this new perspective, I've begun to rethink everything. Absolutely,
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: I'll be honest, this is not I'm not making this up.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: I was always open to what might have been called.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: I suppose alternative interpretations of history. You know, to pass
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: your exams and get the degree and whatever. You know,
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: you follow, you follow a line, you know, you keep
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: in your lane, broadly speaking. But I was always interested
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: in the sort of Eric von Dankin, and you know,
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: more recently, obviously, you know, the thinking and writing of
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: people like Graham Hancock. You know, I was always I
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: was never I've never really been a died in the
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: wool academic. I went to UNI, like you know, millions
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: of my cohort from school, but I didn't then go
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: on to do higher degrees and any of that, and
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: and that meant that I was never I was less
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: likely I suppose to remain railroaded and only listening to
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: other academics, you know, because I went out into the
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: world of journalism, or just out into the world in general.
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: I was listening to you, and I was watching stuff
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: on television, and I was reading other books. So I
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: was always I was always aware of alternative interpretations. Now
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: that's a long way around. I've taken a bit of
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: a detour again there. But by now I think that
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: the really what bothers me more than anything else is
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: the timeline. There's a there's an accepted orthodox timeline you're
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: born of well, every geology, radiocarbon dating, thermal luminescence dating,
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: dendro chronology, which is you know, treering dating, there's an
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: established in inverted commas timeline. This happened, then this happened,
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: then this happened, then this happened, and it all happened
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: within this period of time whatever. By now I don't,
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: I don't. I don't just accept that timely that's my
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: main problem. But that's only the tip of the iceberg.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: So by now, because I've all I'm always, because I've been,
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: you know, I now proudly wear the hat of well,
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: the tinfoil hat, conspiracy, theorist thing I've long since, I've
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: long since shrugged off any concern. In fact, I feel
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: if you're not tired with that brush, then you're not
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: trying hard enough. And so now that I've relaxed into
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: that persona, I don't care who who knows, and I
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: don't care about other people's opinion of what I think,
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: or at least what I'm open to considering. So a
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: whole new, a whole new wide vista has opened up
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: for me in the last six years. And you know,
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: I've done some fascinating reading and listening.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: The The COVID era was a disaster for the world
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: in many ways. I mean, people were locked down and
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: it was just an absolute catastrophe. But now what you
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: now now, Neil, would you go back to twenty nineteen.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: No, hard, No, it was difficult. It was like it
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: was like a slap in the face or a punch
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: in the face being you know, initially labeled as whatever
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: anti you know, anti this, anti that, anti vax or
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: COVID denial, you know, granny killer was the start of it.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: But then that developed as I looked at other things
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: into whatever, you know, conspiracy, theorist, anti semi whatever, I've
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: been called it, you name it, I've been called it.
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: And it did it hurt to begin with. But then
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: I always used analogy of you know, the fear of
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: the first punch in the face is worse than the
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: first punch in the face. You know, once you get
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: the punch in the face, Oh right, that's what it's
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: like to get a punch in the face. And the
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: subsequent blows still hurt, but they don't take you by
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: surprise in the way that the first punch in the
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: face did. And so I don't. I've also used analogy
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: of shedding a shell like a crab, and you go
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: through that well, presumably a crab goes through that period
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: where it's it's defenseless because it's soft again. But then
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: you grow a different shell, a bigger shell that lets
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: you be bigger and you and so on and so on,
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: and that's the process. You know, you want to keep growing.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: So I think that's where That's where I've been. It
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: was a shock to me. I was a heaven helped me.
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: I was a kind of a member of the of
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: the lesser establishment here in the UK, you know, because
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: I was presenting the kind of television I was, which
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: was soft kind of BBC documentary series about the landscape
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: and about history and archael and so on. Charities and
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: others approach and ask you to represent them, you know,
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: to be a face, and I was, you know, I
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: represented a few charities. I was also for a while
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: they're the president of the National Trust for Scotland. I
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: had been invited to become and was very briefly a
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: fellow of the Royal Society of Edinburgh, which is one
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: of those sort of august societies, you know, for your
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: academic intellectual times, and you know, and I was a
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: known face. And then because of what I started to
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: say around COVID and then everything else, like the war
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: in Ukraine, like the climate crisis, hoax a gaza, you know,
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: the genocide and all of the rest of it, merely
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: taking a stance where I was saying, are we sure
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: about this? Really? I mean, I was just really, wait
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: a minute, hang on, there seems to be an alternative
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: way of it interpreting these events, could we, you know,
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: maybe we should look at that, you know. So I got,
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: I got. I got so battered by that, and then
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: I was dropped by everyone, all those little accretions that
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: had that I had gathered around me. I was dropped
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: by every charity. I was dropped as the president of
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: the National Trust for Scotland. Well. I was challenged by
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: the members the Fellows of the Royal Society of Edinburgh
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: to I apologize. I can't even remember what specifically I
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: had said, but anyway, I was asked to recant, and
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: I said, no, I'll just leave, and I left. I
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: think I'm probably the person with the briefest tenure Fellowship
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: of the Royal Society. But it must have been months, literally,
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: and i'ment, and so my agent dropped me, everyone dropped me.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: My newspaper column ended, and I'd never doubt if I'll
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: ever worked for terrestrial television again, you know. And so
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: all of that has all that has happened to me.
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: But you ask the question, do I regret it? One
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: hundred percent hard No, because I I'm content that I
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: did right in saying what I said. I wanted to
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: say what I said, and I don't regret saying what
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: I said. So there's an and happily, very happily. My wife,
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: you know, we've been together for a long time. We've
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: known each other since we were teenagers. And my wife
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: never missed a beat either, so she was always on
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: the same page as we say. And my kids managed
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: to keep my kids, our kids away from the jabs.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: They they didn't take any of that, and that for me,
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: that's that's achievement number one. The fact that Trudy and
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: I my wife became even tighter as a unit, and
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: the fact that we kept our kids away from that
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: bio weapons. That's if nothing else had happened, I would
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: still be content that I did right. Well.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: I mean, I also wouldn't go back to twenty nineteen.
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: My child was born sort of post covid and we
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: struggled for a long time to fall pregnant. And if
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: it weren't for the COVID era, my child would not
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: be vaccinated. In other words, hang on, I got that.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: The riper around my child is not vaccinated.
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: Let me put it on your child is not.
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and he's healthier as a result. Now, if
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: you had asked me in twenty nineteen, I would have said, absolutely,
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: he's going to get vaccinated.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: So yeah, full disclosure. I mean truly, our kids are older.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: I mean my eldest is twenty too soon to be
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: twenty three, and my youngest is seventeen eighteen. In my
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: metal Boys twenty and back in the day, we got
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: them MMR you know you get yeah, that's the measles
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: mums rebel.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: I was just second. Yeah, my mom, my, mom and
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: dad got me us, me and my sister's job with
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: whatever was was offered up at the times, back decades
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: agoing And when the MMR thing came along, we did that.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: We got the kids jab and now mercifully as far
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: as we can tell, you know, dodged a bullet on
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: that one. I don't know. I don't know, but if
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: I had my time again, if I had my time
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: again with twenty twenty hindsight, we wouldn't and truly says
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: the same. We would absolutely not let a needle anywhere
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: near them at any point. And you know, but there
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: we go, Here we are my awakening. I put a
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: lot of it down to just it wasn't that I
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: was pro job, really not really. It was just that
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: I wasn't paying attention. And the MMR was just another
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: thing you did. Here's this date in the calendar, you
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: get your kids jabbed. And that didn't really God forgive me,
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: we didn't. It just we went along with the orthodoxy.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: Everybody around us seemed to be getting the same thing,
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: so we just went along that. I've done that, and
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: I've said, you know, when people come at me now
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: about oh, you didn't used to say this, and you
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: didn't used to say that. Absolutely, I didn't. I accept
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: that completely. But you only you only to use the
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: common parallems waking up. When you're waking up in this instance,
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: if someone you can't You can slap and shake someone whatever,
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: but you can't waken someone else up. The other person
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: has to waken up by themselves. You know, it's not
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: like you know, you know, the true love's first kiss
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: for sleeping beauty, and you're waking up, you waking up
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: when you're waking up. And I woke up in twenty twenty,
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: And I hold my hand up and say, the things
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: I did and what I thought before twenty twenty was different.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: I don't apologize for it. It's just where I was
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: and now I think differently, And you know, that's that's it.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: That's a very interesting point that you're making. You said
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: you woke up in twenty twenty, so like would you
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: say that death was your Damascus moment, Because many people
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: have had a series of moments over the years that
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: have kind of turned the light bulb on for me.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: For example, I believed the nine to eleven story for
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: the longest time. The climate change story I believed also
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: until around two thousand and nine when I watched a
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: documentary called the Great Global Warming Swindle, which really got
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: me rethinking that. But still now real huge Damascus moments
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: for me until around twenty twenty.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: Yes, I suppose what you make me think of there
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: is I used to travel a lot with work, you know,
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: I flew all over the world to make television. And
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: it was my habit when I checked into a hotel
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: to go into the room and turn the television on.
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: You find the remote and switch it on. But I
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: didn't watch it. I just wanted the background noise. It
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: was like company in the room. So it was on,
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: and I knew it was on and I could hear it,
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: but I wasn't sitting down paying attention to it. And
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: when it comes to the first five decades of my
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: life and everything that was going on, it was like that,
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: you know, the MMR, let's say, because we've just mentioned
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: it was just on in the background, and I just
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: without analyzing it, without sitting down and looking at MMR,
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: I just went along with it. And I think probably
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: that's the intended effect of the Orthodoxy most people, certainly myself,
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: without paying attention, I just got bumbled along. I just
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: I was distracted by what I was doing. I was
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: busy with my work. I was busy with my family
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: life and all its attendant you know, you know, business.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: And I didn't really look like you say, nine to
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: eleven happened. I didn't I thought, oh my god, you know,
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: all right, what happened there? Oh right, some terrorist hijack
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: planes and crashed them into the World Trade Center. My goodness,
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: muslims ah. I mean, but I didn't really, I didn't
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: analyze it particularly, and you know, things like that when
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: Britain joined with when Tony Blair and George Bush went
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: to war in Iraq. Trudly often talks about the fact
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: that we were in a hospital in London on the
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: You remember there was the footage of the Saddam Hussein
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: statue getting pulled over by a crowd. When that was happening,
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: Trudy had just had the first of three. As it
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: turned out, emergency cesarean sections, right, So we were in.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: We were in that that was what was preoccupying us.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: But that was happening literally television in the background. We
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: didn't bother to think should we have why have we
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: gone to war? It just it was there in the background,
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: like that that company in a hotel room when you're
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: on your own. It was just a hiss in the background.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: That was better than silence, you see when you first
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: I do look back now, I remember obviously in Britain,
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: the roy Old family is a bit has always been
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: a big deal in Britain, you know, birthdays, coronations, weddings,
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: you know, huge coverage of all of those events. And
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: I do remember when Diana, Princess of Wales died in
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: that incident. I remember, for the first time I was,
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: you know, looking at it on the television and in
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: the newspapers, and I remember thinking that's weird. Obviously, it
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: was a tragedy that a young mum had died, as
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: it is when anyone a young mum dies, that's a
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: terrible sadness for the family. But you know, I didn't
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: know that women personally, and while I could, while I
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: could empathize with the grief, I could understand why her
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: nearest and dearest would be would be as upset as
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: you would expect. The national outpouring, men in the streets
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: tearing their clothes and howling and whaling, and you know,
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: the mountains of flowers and all of the rest of it.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: I remember thinking at that point, an early inkling, that
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: this feels like brainwashing of something, and this feels like
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: a collective madness. This feels like some sort of collective
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: hysteria that people are just being swept along by as
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: though by a torrent, a sudden flash flood on a river.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: But my, but without a doubt, you know, my, my,
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: damn the scene moment, and it wasn't really even as
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: dramatic as that. When when when the lockdown happened, I
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: still thought my Trudy was worried about the kids. Our
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: kids were still at school at that point, and you know,
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: suddenly we were being told about the Black Death was
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: coming out of the East via Italy and everybody was
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: going to die, going to be bodies heaped in the streets,
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: and thought, oh my god. And you know, for the
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: first couple of weeks of the lockdown, we thought, oh, well,
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: maybe we should maybe that's the right thing to do,
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: just to see what happens. You know. It's like it's
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: like when you hear a crash out and you put
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: your hands over your head, just oh what is it?
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: And then you know, the moment passes and you have
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: a look around. So for the first cup which we thought, well,
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: maybe that's the right thing to do. But we're self employed,
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: broadly speaking, and everything every means by which I had
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: ever earned a living stopped. Everything. I didn't have any
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: I couldn't work in lockdown, and so you know, the
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: reality of the situation was that we first began to
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: be opposed to it because we simply thought we're going
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: to lose the house. And also as the time went on,
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: we realized that we weren't seeing anyone die. You know,
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: the wheelbarrows are not being pushed up and down the street,
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: you know, with the lifeless bodies of the neighbors getting
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: loaded and taken away, so anything.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: There were no ambulance larens either.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: No, there was nothing. There was nothing. So there was
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: there was a period of where you thought, well, we're
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: still locked down. They're still telling us that it's the
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: Black Death, but I'm not seeing anything. I'm not seeing anything,
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: and that so that was it was a gradual It
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: was a gradual process. You know, Trudy and I were
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: looking at each other going, we can't we're gonna the
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: Black Death may or may not be here, but we're
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: going to lose the house anyway, and that'll be even
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: that would be something much more direct to worry about.
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: And so then and then of course, then it went
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: on and by twenty twenty one, they were the blue
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: envelopes were coming through the door saying, come and get
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: your injection, come and get your your so called vaccine,
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: and again without any particular rebellious feeling, Trudy and I
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: just looked at one another and felt, no, I mean,
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: nobody's well, I don't know anybody with COVID. I certainly
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: don't know anybody who's died of COVID, so I don't
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: think there's any We didn't take it, and we literally
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: were of the opinion that we'll just wait and see.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: Maybe as the years go on, we might, you know,
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: we might review the situation, but in the short term,
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: we don't need that. But then, having made that, thank
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: goodness decision, and also having persuaded the kid, as time
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: went on that you don't need to do this. You know,
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: my son wanted back to the gym, you know, my
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: daughter was worried about not being able to socialize with friends.
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: But we said, just wait, wait, and they did mercifully.
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: But then, of course it became more and more apparent
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: that the jabs we were dangerous, you know whatever, We
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: could down that road if you want, but you know,
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: we thought, right, oh, thank goodness, we didn't do that.
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: And then we realized as the time went on, that well,
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: we still I still don't know anyone who died of COVID,
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: but there is a metaphorical pile of dead that I'm
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: aware of, and it's people that died of heart attacks
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: and strokes, sudden cancers of a clear blue sky. You know,
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: your people in the forties and fifties who'd been fitting
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: well suddenly had of late stage cancers and were swept
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: away within weeks and whatever. And we thought, right that
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: that's a sinister thing or something, and badly wrong there.
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: It's just coincidence.
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: Neil. Yeah, So you know, you talk about a damascene moment,
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: it was much much more gradual, and that for me,
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: it was for Trudey and I it was I mean,
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: where we are now, we think this was malign, this
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: was evil. We are surrounded by psychopathic pedophiles. But we
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: got there by a long process of just initially initially
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: lifting our heads up and having a look around to
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: assess the situation. And it's become well, we're we've arrived
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: at the point where we are. But it was not overnight.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: It was not a damascene moment.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: I'm in one hundred percent agreement with you regarding the vaccines,
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: in fact, in fact, not just the COVID but all vaccines.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: I now think, oh, are are pretty risky. Me too,
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: various degrees. I do not see the necessity for absolutely
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: any vaccine at all.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: Nothing me too. Yeah.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: So, and that's again thanks to the COVID era. And
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: for me, it'll it will always go down as a
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: great learning experience. I remember believing the official story in
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: early twenty and twenty. I thought, Okay, there is this
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: virus that's spreading. I remember the whole Northern Italy thing.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: Remember they said people traveled from China or something. And
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: then Trump wanted to lockdown, not lockdown, stop all flights
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: to and frow China or something like that, and I thought, okay,
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: you know, maybe there's some new disease or something. But
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: then in March, when half the world just coincidentally, Neil
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: started locking down their citizens and announcing the same stuff, yes,
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: and using the same terminology. Had you ever heard the
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: term social distancing in your life?
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: No, I'm I certainly I had heard lockdown before, but
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: only in the context of prison movies. You know, a
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: riot would be starting to break out and they would
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: lock down, you know whatever, through everybody in their Resells
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: and Alcatraz and lockw That was a lockdown. I knew it.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: I knew what a lockdown was in that context and
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: only that context. And yes, it was all that was
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: part of the gradual process was hearing everyone, you know, whatever,
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: Boris Johnson, Joe Biden, you know, the French leader of
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: the generally, all across the place, Klaus Schwab of the
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: World Economic Forum, King Charles all using the same sentences.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: Flattened the curve. Yeah, just sinda the horror show that
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: unfolded in Australia Prison Island and in New Zealand. But
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: that build back better flatten the curve, you know, save
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: the NHS window of opportunity. And you could people have
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: start to put together those montages on social media where
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: you could see a thousand news anchors all saying the
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: same sentence, and you think that's really weird. That's you know,
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: that never happens. You know, Nick Hudson already name checked them.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: I mean Nick Nick came up with at some point
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: the Hudson's razor, as he called it, echoing Oakham's razor,
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: where he said, if something's being presented as a global
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: threat with a single solution to which everyone must adhere,
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: unquestioning and in lockstep. And thirdly, if you're not allowed
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: to question that version of events, if you can tick
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: those three boxes, according to Hudson's razor, you're dealing with
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: a scam. And that I've remembered that ever since. That
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: resonated very strongly with me. And it applies to what
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: we were told about the war in Ukraine, what we've
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: been told about the climate crisis, what we've been told
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: about net zero, know Agenda twenty, Agenda twenty one, Agenda
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: twenty thirty, whatever it is, it's the same. You can
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: tick all three boxes for that. And I thought, yes,
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: that's that is right. You know, so we're being all
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: the time. As it turns out, we are scammed. But
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: I think what happened, and I don't know why it happened,
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: because you would think, you know, long experience of the
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: that sort of Fabian society model of softly, softly, catchy
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: monkey slow slow slow the tor toys, rather than the
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: hair gradual gradual gradual, which had obviously been working, you know,
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: gradually whatever, boiling the frog by very slowly, you know,
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: keeping the heat under it. I don't understand why at
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: some point in twenty twenty, Well, I do, I do
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: have theories, but clearly they suddenly ramped everything up. You know,
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: the analogies would be, they suddenly stamped on the accelerator pedal.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: They suddenly cranked the flame under the boiling frog up
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: from low to hot. I don't understand why that happened,
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: because the net effect of them suddenly galloping towards the
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: finishing line was that people like me and there's nothing
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: special about me. I'm a regular perpon my In my
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: cub reporter training days, my editor said, you represent the
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: reasonable man. That's your job. You're not too You're it's
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: like it's like the Goldilocks thing. You're not too smart,
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: you're not too stupid. You're just a reasonable guy. And
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: you your responsibility is to look at events and ask
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: the things that a reasonable guy would ask. You know, when, how, what, where, who?
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: Basic questions, and then once you've got that information, then
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: see where you are, see if you can how would
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: you assess that situation based on those simple, reasonable questions?
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: And I thought if what they did after twenty twenty,
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: for whatever reason, when they stamped on the gas pedal,
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: it woke up people like me, not too smart, not
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: too stupid, just reasonable. Turned out, it looks as though
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: a third of the world cup or a third of
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: the people offered the jabs didn't take them. That's huge,
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: you know, if that's true. If one in three people,
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: for whatever reasons, said no to that, that's enormous. So
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: what fascinates me is the fact that they did stamp
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: on the gas pedal in twenty nineteen. Now I think
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: I know why, but that's for me. That was amazing
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: to me because it's like centuries of careful boiling of
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: the frog were suddenly thrown out the window.
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: Hang on, I want to take a brevity break for
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: a second. This an energy of the frog being boiled.
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: Do you know anybody who's ever boiled a frog?
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: Exactly? I mean, you raise a good point. I mean,
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: you know anyway, if you look it up, you know,
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: people will tell you know, a frog always jumps out
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: of the water when it gets too well. But if
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: you continue the analogy, you can put a lid on it.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: You can put a lid on the frog. So even
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: though the frog realizes it's been boiled to death, there's
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: nothing it can do about it. It's too late. I
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: suppose I supposed to torture the analogy. I suppose with
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: something like you know whatever, lockdown and jabs and the
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: rest of it. They possibly were metaphorically attempting to put
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: the lid on the pot, but they didn't.
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: You know, I don't think Neil, what do you think
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: was and is going on?
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: Well? I think it's I think it's always about money,
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: you know, I mean, you go back thousands of years.
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: It's about you know, it's about gold. It's about who's
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: got the gold? Where is it? You know, war's being
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: fought for control of the medium of exchange, if you like,
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: you know, which was gold for the longest time. And
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: you know, and more recently it's been about oil. You know,
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: all all the you know, half the wars are about
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: securing access to the valuable, that which is desirable. I think.
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: So that's the driving force banal. You know, Hannah A Rent,
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: you know, covering the Eichman trial, said, you know the
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: banality of evil that when you get right down to it,
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: you know, with someone like Kman is just a bureaucrat
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: just doing his job. But but what manifests with that
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: mindset of just doing your job? Is unspeakable whatever. So
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: and that's a whole other that's a whole other rabbit
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: hole to go down. But anyway that, you know, it's
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: a useful way of it's a useful way of of
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: of thinking that I think in answer to your question,
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: it boils down to money. Now, people know what, I'm
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: just using the word money as a shorthand. I mean,
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: I know there's you know, you can debate endlessly exactly
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: what the difference is between money and currency and so
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: on and so on. I think as twenty I think during
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: the from twenty ten onwards, I think, just to put
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: a rough estimate on, I think what began to emerge
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: for the controlling elite that were accustomed to being the
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: people empowered to create money out of nothing and then
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: to control its flow, printing money, quantitative easing, fractional reserve banking,
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: and so on, and so that was just a later,
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: a late stage manifestation of what had been there for
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: thousands of years, which was the powerful control the wealth.
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: I think what began to manifest from about twenty ten
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: onwards was some kind of unexpected existential threat, a financial
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: existential threat, something well, you know, we could talk about
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: that till the cows come home. But I think what
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: manifests for the powerful was a threat to their financial control.
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: And you need, you know, you need money to pay
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: for the armies that do your bidding, you know, to
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: bribe the people that you want to do your bidding,
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: you know, to pay for everything. You need money. And
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: I think there was a there was a burgeoning threat
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: to that position. I think it's still there. You know,
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: an existential threat is like, you know, kind of an
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: extinction level event, which I think is still in the air,
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: as it were, and that the powerful haven't got on
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: top of it. And so I think what happened in
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: twenty nineteen was a decision was taken that we need
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: to get ourselves a breathing space, said the said, the wealthy,
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: powerful controlling to each other. And so the lockdown and
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: the scamdemic, the fake pandemic and so aided in a
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: better by the background noise of you know, the climate
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: crisis hoax, the world's about to catch fire if we don't,
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: you know, give up our cars and all the rest
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: of it. I think all of that was a response
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: to the need to give themselves time. How'd you shut
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: the world down? How do you stop everything well locked
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: down and put people in their houses in fear of
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: some invisible threat. And you know, and so we're now
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: six years later, and to some extent I think that
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: that we're still in a situation where the powerful, they're
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: trying to get back on control and everything. We're seeing
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: war in Ukrae because COVID began to run out of
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: steam for them, it didn't have the effect anymore, mostly
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: because people weren't dying of it. They certainly weren't dying
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: of that. And so you know, miraculously war in Ukraine appeared,
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: which is now a forever war with First World War
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: death tolls associated with it. I mean, it's a proper
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: horror and it's it has enabled the European puppets to
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: threaten conscription and you know, boots on the ground in
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: Ukraine for their sons and daughters. So that's there. And
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: then always the climate crisis, you know, the horror show
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: in the Middle East, you know, up to and including
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: you know now now Iran, the threat of the threat
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: of nuclear war, world War three. I think what you're
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: looking at is an increasingly desperate attempt to buy more
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: time until the powerful can get back in control of
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: the wealth, with the surveillance state, the digital cage, digital
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: id you know, central bank, digital currencies. I think the
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: sort of stuff that Catherine Austin fits. You know, she
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: frightened the living daylight so to me when I started
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: listening to her years ago, because I thought, oh God,
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: I can recognize that. I can see what you're talking
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: about there. I don't understand the maths or the arithmetic,
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: but I see what you mean. I think that's all
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: to play for at the moment, And partly I think
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: the reason where I do think that this desperate attempt
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: to finally put the lid on the pot and boil
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: the frog to death will fail because they cannot. They
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: cannot solve that existential financial problem. It's just getting bigger
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: and bigger and more and more obvious.
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: I have to ask, because you emphasize they, who is they?
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: Well, I think when it comes to they, we are
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: all of us raised for the longest time to believe
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: that we belong to countries, independent nation states that have
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: their independent you know, identities and cultures and religions and languages,
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: and that we have our you know, sort of geopolitical
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: needs and wants which we think that we elect our
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: leaders to champion on our behalf. So you've got people
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: that think that they're American, think they're British, South African, French,
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: and that is a fundamental of how we are. We
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: are kept in our boxes. We're the British, we need this,
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: We're the Americans. Put America first keeps people in a mindset.
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: But I think that one of the keys that lets
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: you out, that sets you free, is when you realize
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: that they don't have any of those allegiances. So the
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: people that are they, which is to say, the people
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: who do make the big decisions, are not. They don't
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: They don't belong anywhere or identify with any identity. And
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: I think the reality is that the all of the
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: people that are really making decisions for America, for South Africa,
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: for Britain, for France, for everywhere, they are kindred spirit.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: They are they they share an intention to just mislead
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: the mass of the population while they go about the
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: business of getting what they want, you know. So I
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: mean the evidence is there. You know, if you if
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: you go back, let's say, into the twentieth century, just past,
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: you know that if you dig around a little bit
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: you realize that, you know, let's say the rise of
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: Hitler and Mussolini, let's say was financed by Wall Street.
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: They were that the money that enabled that, the rise
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: of whatever fascism or Nazism it was, it was Wall
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: Street and to some extent, the Bank of England that
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: deals were being struck. There was a there was a
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: there was a what was kept from them from the
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: mass of the population at that time, was that I
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: been saud in Saudi Arabia, you know, Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini, FDR.
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: The the interests of those people were all being looked
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: after by the same legal companies, handful of the same banks.
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: They were all they were. They were all doing business
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: with each other, you know that, you know, the General Electric,
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: General Motors for whatever. We're building trucks and other materials
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: for Adolf Hitler. At the same time as they were
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: funding the Allies for D Day, the same the same
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: central banks were striking deals with all of the same people,
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: while will keeping millions of people in the mistaken belief
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: that there was an adversarial contest going on between America,
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: Britain and France and the Allies and you know, and
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: Germany well, the reality of the situation was that all
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: business was it was business as usual, you know. It
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: was all about centralizing gold, It was about deciding who
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: was going to control oil and other reserves in the
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: Middle East and elsewhere. And the mass of the population
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: was blindsided into thinking that there was a world war
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: going on between distinct sides. It wasn't like that. And
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: I think that manifestation in the twentieth century is just
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: one of many. So you ask me who they are.
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: I do subscribe to the belief that there is just
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: a cohort, a cabal, a you know, a cartel, much
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: like a crime family that runs illegal business at the
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: expense of the general population. From time to time, members
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: of the public, you know, get hurt and from time
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: to time, and using the model of of a crime syndicate,
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: there are battles for control of that. Everyone's seeing the
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: Godfather movie, you know, the Mafiosi fight amongst themselves. You
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: know what you're looking at. There's a good model to
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: look at, I would say, in the you know, the
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: Mexican drug cartels at the moment, you know the terrible
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: violence there, you know, the terrible violence, you know, the
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: decapitations the flayings alive. The the terrible stuff that's going
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: on in Mexico is because there's a civil war raging
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: within the Cineloa cartel. Different factions within that cartel are
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: fighting for control of the business, and that violence will
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: get worse and worse and worse until eventually, one fact fact,
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: one faction or another has one and you know, and
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: wiped out the other faction. And I think you know,
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: we're seeing that. You see that as well. That's why
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: you know, you get flash points because they don't. They
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: don't all agree. They are a criminal cartel, and it's
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: if you keep that image in your head of yeah,
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: they certainly treat us like the mass of the population.
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: We're just you know, idiots that go to work, pay
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: our taxes and abide by the law. But they know
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: that that's just that's just for them. We're good fellas,
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: we're the we're mafia. We don't we don't do any
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: of that. We do what we want. From time to time,
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: they fight amongst themselves. I think maybe, I think maybe
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: we're in the midst of one of those civil wars.
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: We're sides are fighting for dominance, but none of it's
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: got our interests at heart, We're just mooks, We're just
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: the We're just the we're just the sheep, the cattle,
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: that we don't matter.
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think to feed into what you say,
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: Neil Is, I would also add that there's a sense
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: of complexity that a lot of people around us seem
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: to willfully ignore. I really get annoyed by the sort
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: of myopic it's the Jews narrative because it is extremely
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: simplistic and it ignores it knows history.
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, I mean I think, I think what part
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: of it is that that the malign force, the crime
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: syndicate or whatever cloaks itself. It's never in plain sight,
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: it's always disguised. It's taking advantage of human shields. You know,
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: during the Iraq War and whatever with Saddam Husain and
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: the human shields, you know, we learned about that concept
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: of you know, the baddies standing behind innocent people, you know,
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: because the idea was that, you know, the other side
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: would be less likely to shoot at you through women
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: and children. Although you know, you know plainly that doesn't
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: doesn't apply at all, not not when they truly ruthless
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: are concerned, you know. So there are you know, there
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: are there are different things to hide behind, you know,
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: and the notion of you know, yeah, let's blame everything
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: on the Jews is a is a is a choreographed
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: sleight of hand. That's that's that's that's one way in
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: which you can distract people. But what's really going on
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: about distract people about what's really going on? Uh, you know,
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: I mean it goes without saying that that people who
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: worship whose whose religion is Judaism, you know, the very
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: idea that all of those people and and let's remember
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: that Judaism takes in people of you know, all colors,
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: all sexualities. You know, it's a it's a faith. The
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: very idea that those people are collectively, you know, responsible
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: for all the trouble in the world world is nonsense.
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: That you know that. And but of course you know
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: that at the moment that I think the use of
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: the of the of the of the label anti semi
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: or anti Semitic has been worn through that that was
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: a very effective weapon for a long time. To be
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: accused of anti semitism was it was like being accused
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: of being a pedophile, and you know, it was it
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: was a terrible thing to be accused of. But it's
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: been so overused and misapplied it doesn't really matter anymore.
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: It doesn't. It's so something something. I mean, so I
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: think that the use of that, that that thing that's
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: been the use of that, I think actually is wearing
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: out and will be replaced by something else. So yes,
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: I mean, like you, I mean absolutely, I you know,
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: to say that it's the Jews is just it's just
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: a nonsense. That's that's not the thing. That they are,
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: just that controlling cartel, and they are they They are
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: neither due, nor Muslim, nor Christian. They are neither unified, black,
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: nor white nor brown. They are neither gay nor straight.
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: They are that that separation of the cartel from the
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: rest of us cuts vertically, doesn't cut horizontally. You know,
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: you don't go, oh, well, he's Jewish, so he must
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: be a baddie. It's in the same way that always gay,
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: he must be a baddie. Oh he's American, he must
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: be a baddie. Oh he's you know whatever, he's Iranian,
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: he must be a baddie. That's nonsense.
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: Ginger and a ginger.
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: You know, it's like that thing about you know, all
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: all all, all thumbs are fingers, but not all fingers
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: are thumbs, you know what I mean. It's like people
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: just get you know, there's always a label. There's always
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: a label. Oh, it's the fault of the and that
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: that's yeah, and it's it is. I mean, you actually lazy.
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: It's it's completely intellectually lazy. I mean, we can all
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: it's almost a cliche now, but everyone truly is. You know, well, generally,
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: you know, you're able to say, I've got friends of
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: all sorts. I've got I've got Muslim friends I love.
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: You know that I've got I've got Jewish friends, I've
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: got I've got i've got gay friends, I've got American friends,
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: I've got you know, women friends, I've got male friend
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: you know, I mean, my my group of people you know,
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: about whom I care. It's not it's not determined by
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: any of these labels, you know. I that's all I
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: can say. And I certainly don't think you cannot. You
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: cannot boil it down and say, right, this group, this
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: identity group, whatever it is, you know, these these gay people,
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: or these Muslim people, or these Jewish people, it's it's
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: always them the trouble. The trouble cuts. It's like Alexander
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: saljan It's and said the line separating good and evil
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: passes through every human heart. Yeah, that is, that's nearer
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: to the mark.
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but you met a good point earlier when you
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: said that you have these competing factions with in the oligarchy.
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: That's exactly right. This is why a lot of the
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: attempts for global for for globalism, for mass surveillance, for
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: vaccine rodance fail because they are fighting with amongst themselves.
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: You have the u n and the Fabians, and you
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: have the Jesuits, and you have Black nobility, and you
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: have the royal classes, and you have the the ng
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: Os are Bill Gates, and you have all these factions
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: and they are fighting amongst themselves.
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: Well, yes, I think that's a There's there's something I've
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: been One of the things that I've looked at in
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: the in the intervening years, you know, has been like
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: a concept like natural law and the idea of of
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: the the the universe itself consciously strives for equilibrium, balance,
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: balance in all things, you know. I mean we kind
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: of know that for in our own individual physical health,
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: it's about balance, you know, too much not good too
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: little not good, but balance. A natural law suggests that,
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: you know, a conscious universe wants equilibrium, and so the
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: mistake that they make now they are for absolutely they
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: are a minority, in the same way that the mafia
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: are a minority, or whatever, or the or any other
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: crime syndicate you want to, you know that you want to.
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not labeling, you know, the crime family
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: that originates from Sicily as as this as the source
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: of all evil either, I'm just using it as a metaphor.
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: But they are outnumbered by the mass of the population,
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: so that that's why they have to use subterfuge and
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: trickery because there they are massively. You know, they are
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: the few. They are the few, and everybody else is
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: than any so that they have the analogy, I suppose
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: would be that in attempting to gain this total can troll.
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: It takes enormous effort. You know, It's like it's like
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: it's it's like holding a pendulum at it's at its
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: greatest swing that weight and trying to keep it there
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: forever because what the pendulum in terms of then it
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: wants to go is to swing back but then eventually
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: hang the weight wants to be in the middle. That's
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: where it wants to go. Or it's like the enormous
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: effort required to hold a beach ball under the surface
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: of the sea. You can do it, but it takes
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: relentless energy, which is enervating, and eventually the pendulum is
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: going to swing back and it's going to settle in
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: the middle, and the beach ball is going to erupt
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: onto the surface and then just bob sat the universe.
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: You know, the universe wants equilibrium, and these they are
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: are subverting the natural law. They're trying to get to
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: and then forever maintain an inversion of everything that's natural.
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: They will fail. I mean, that's why it will fail.
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: We happen to be living through the period of turmoil
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: and struggle, which is you know, some every now and
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: again a generation or two is the lucky or unlucky
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: one that goes through that period. But the push to
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: get the total control of everything, everywhere, all the time
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: by a minority will fail by definition.
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: So it sounds like you're saying that you see it
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: light at the end of the tunnel and not a
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: train coming towards us.
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: I think you know, there's so many aspects to it.
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: You know, I don't believe in endings, you know, I mean, Hollywood,
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: We've all, a lot of us have learned to be
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: suspicious now of the you know, MK ultra and the
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: messaging that comes, let's say, out of music, popular music
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: so called, the programming that's there in the Hollywood movie.
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: And you know, if you think about it for five minutes,
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: you know, movies almost all worked towards a happy ending,
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: you know, conclusion. But we all you all know, I mean,
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: if you watch the end of I don't know when
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: Harry met Sally, or you know, when you know, when
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: the couple get together and everything's going to be happy forever,
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: or or Von Ryan's express you know, Von Ryan dies
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: on the railway tracks. But the but these people, you know,
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: escape to freedom, you know, and Steve McQueen, you know,
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: finally gets caught on the barboire. And but there's a
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: Hollywood teaches us to think that things come to an end,
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: But you've only got to pause for a moment to think, well,
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: what happens next? There's always next, you know, what is
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: the daily grind like for Harry and Sally now that
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: they're together and married, you know, and they will go
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: on to have good days and bad days like everything else.
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: You know, this idea that things come to an end.
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: I can see how I'm even paranoid about making that
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: symbol with my hands, you know, because there's a whole
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: there's a whole rabbit hole about that.
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: You know, you're a mason.
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it makes a symbol with my hands, and I'm signaling, signing.
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: My master's terrified I should keep my hands in my pocket.
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: But you know, so so so there are no endings,
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: So you say, is the light at the end of
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: the tunnel? You know, that's what made me think of
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: you know, Von Ryan's Express, Frank Sinatra and all that.
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: We will get out of this, it will move on
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: to the next phase. There is no ending, nothing ends,
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: you know, a light at the end of the tunnel. Yeah,
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: so you merge out into the daylight from the tunnel,
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: and then what that doesn't mean that, that doesn't mean
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: that everything's going to be happy forever after that, You're
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: just onto the next thing. We are coming. Yeah, you
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: might say we're coming through a tunnel at the moment,
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: and for sure the tunnel will come to end and
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: we'll come out into the daylight, and then that will
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: present the next generations with something else. You know, they
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: they will go on, you know. I think one of
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: the mk ultra programming things that comes at Hollywood's idea
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: that yeah, if you just if you just, if you
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: just hold it together, you'll get to the end. There
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: is no end. It's just it's just it's just an infinite, endless,
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: timeless process.
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: That's a very interesting insight. I've never really thought of
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: it like that, Neil. And there's a there's a strange
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: segue right back to my very first question about ancient history,
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: because you mentioned Graham Hancock, and I've interviewed a few
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: few of his colleagues. I haven't managed to interview Graham
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: himself neither.
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: Bye, I've tried to get to Graham, and I've never marriaged. No. Yeah,
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: he doesn't reply to his emails.
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: And but the what some of his colleagues have argued
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: is that history is cyclical and doesn't follow a chronological
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: timeline from from primitive to advance, whereas it goes around
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: and around and around, and that, yeah.
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: It certainly does it. Certainly. I think that's I think
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: that tends to be the human animals experience. You know,
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: I think, I think the I think the universe. And
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: again I'm just using a shorthand daid. Let's not get
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: into the whole whatever, flat earth, whatever, ptolemate models, comperitive.
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: I just mean, you know what I mean by the universe,
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: that everything right. I don't think it's cyclical, it's it's
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: a long, it's a it's a it's a it's a
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: process without beginning and without end. But I think the
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: human animal, because we are finite, you know, we come
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: from somewhere and then we seem to go away again
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: after a period of minutes or a century, but we
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: tend to come and go, and so I think the
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: experience of the human animal tends to feel like endings
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: and begin endings, but happy ending whatever and whatever and whatever.
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: So I think that's that's our predicament. I think that's
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: the predicament of the animal. And for sure, for thousands
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: of years, over and over again, some observant individuals have
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: spotted it. You know, Polybius was Greek and suggested that
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: you know, in society, you get you get a good king,
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: and then that's great. He's benevolent and benign, and there's
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: a nice there's a kind of a camelot period. But
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: then he gets old dies and the thing goods down
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: to his son. And his son's not him. He's not
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: as good as him, he's not as clever as him,
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: and so he becomes influenced by the other powerful people
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: around him. So you get, rather than the monarchy, you
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: get the aristocracy, because now power devolves to the aristocracy.
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: And that might be all right for a while as well,
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: but then you get the aristocrats' sons and grandsons, and
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: they're a bit useless as well. They're just born into privilege,
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: and so that becomes unsatisfying for most people. So that
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: becomes an oligarchy, right, it's corrupt, and eventually that goes
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: on for a while, but then the people can't throw it.
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: They can't tolerate that forever, and so there's a there's
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: an overthrowing of the oligarchy, and you get a democracy,
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: which is people governing themselves. And then that lasts in
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: the first iteration or so, but then that too becomes
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: people take it for granted. It becomes corrupted as well,
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: and you get the mob. You know, you get the
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: power of the mob, the unthinking mob. And then that's chaotic,
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: that's disastrous, and so that descends into the rise of
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: the demagogue. I suppose of Donald trumpian figure that arrives
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: and seems to promise the solution to all problems. Just
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: trust me and I'll fix it for you. But we
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: all know what happens with demagogue'es, you know, at base,
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: but they're bent, and so that doesn't work. So there's war, chaos,
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: and out of the chaos comes a good king. So
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: now you've gone from twelve o'clock all the way around
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: and you're back. But then the process starts again. Now
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: that's just Polybius. Now that he was not the first,
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: and he was not the last to notice that cyclical sensation.
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: You know, anybody that's read or tried to read Finnegan's Wake,
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: you know James Joyce, great Irish writer. You know if
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: Figan's Way actually begins in the middle, you know River Run,
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: you know it begins in the middle of a word,
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: in the middle of a sentence, and within the first
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: paragraph or two he gives the clue to its Vicus.
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: But he's name checking giam Baptista Vico, who was I
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: think a seventeenth century philosopher who suggested that all human
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: societies were the same, that they would start with the
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: time of the gods. So you would have people primitives,
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: emotional elemental like Neanderthals, I suppose, who live in fear
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: of the thunder and the lightning, and they take shelter
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: in caves. And then so that's the first stage. Then
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: you get the time of the the time of the
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: kind of the rise of a nightly class, an aristocratic
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: and that that period is then characterized by fighting between
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: an an elite clique and the and the and the
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: mass of the population. And eventually the aristocrats are overthrown
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: and they're replaced by the republic, effectively like the democracy,
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: the rule of the people. But then that that fades
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: again for the same reasons that Polybius understands, and then
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: you go back it becomes the time of the gods again.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: So you know, there are multiple examples of of of
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: observant people noticing, you know, and and in in Finnegan's way,
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: you know, Joyce is nodding to the fact that he
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: understands this. You know, the book is in three parts, really,
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: and it's and it's about that constantly repeating cycle you know.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: So it's it's part of the human experience. It's our
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: predicament and that we and so to get back to
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: your original point about Graham Hancock and others suggesting that
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: there are cycles, I think it fuels that way for us,
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: because I do. I do think there's a difference between
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: the way things are and the way things feel. You know,
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: there's the way that science describes reality at the moment.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: Science at the moment describes reality a certain way, you know,
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: and we've got you know, balls in space and us
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: living on them and whatever, and gravity and so on
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: and so on. However, I'm yet to meet anyone who
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: fuels it like that, you know, you don't you the
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: world life on Earth feels like flat Earth. What it
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: feels like is being on a stationary thing with everything
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: happening around it so at the same so one in
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: the same time. You're invited to know what science says,
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: We're on a ball falling through infinity at tens of
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: thousands of miles an hour and all the rest of
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: it and rotating, you know, faster than a speeding bullet.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: But it doesn't feel like that. What it feels like
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: is plat Earth. That's the feeling, you know. So we're
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: as human animals, you know, we've got limited perception. You know,
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: we see a certain frequency of light. We've got five
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: senses that give us a certain amount of information that really,
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: at best, let us live long enough to procreate and
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: then you're gone. And with these blunt tools, we're trying
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: to understand everything in the twinkling of an eye. You know,
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: that is the human the human predicament. Terry. One of
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: Terry Pratchett's novels for kids is A Hatful of Sky
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: and there's a little girl in that called Tiffany Aching,
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: and she's a trainee witch and at one point she's
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: up in the sky on a broom with another witch
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: and they look down and they see that, you know,
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: the Uffington white horse, the famous Geoff on the Chalklands
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: of the southwest of England. Right, they fly over that,
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: and the Tiffany says, it's not what a horse looks like,
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: it's what a horse be So the it's it's so
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: what she's simultaneously perceiving is that is a representation of
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: a horse, but it's not what horse looks like. If
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: you've got ai to show me a horse where you
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: can imagine what AI would show you show you a horse,
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: but that's not what a horse be. So much more
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: is there in the in the in the Uffington geoglyph,
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: that's what a horse b It's like that thing about
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: the you know, what science tells us reality is, but
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: what it feels like to be human and alive are
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: different and sometimes conflicting sensations. And so I think because
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: of that experience that each of us has, however briefly,
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: and however successfully or unsuccessfully or whatever, you know, trying
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: to come to terms with things that clash, that clash.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: And so you say, you know, is the light at
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: the end of the tunnel, Well yeah, but that won't
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: be the end of anything. That will just be a
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: period in whatever is beyond the tunnel. It won't be
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: the end of anything.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: And what you're saying also applies to, say, the COVID era,
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: because we were told by quote unquote the science that
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: there was a deadly pandemic and what we've felt and
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: soul was nothing of the sort.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So you're it's very conflicting all the time
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: because you know you're being told something by people you
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: trust often or people that you're invited to trust. But
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: then if that bumps heads with and conflicts with what
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: you feel, then as an individual and in to some
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: extent collectively as a society, depends what happens, there's a
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: feeling of that's not all there is, that's incomplete, that
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: narrative is not all there is. And when that moment
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: comes for the individual or for enough people, it doesn't
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: have to be fifty one percent. It just needs to
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: be some people and they find each other. And obviously
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: something like the Internet and social media enabled people like
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: us to find each other where we might previously have
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: been isolated. I mean, I get contacted all the time,
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: but still to this day by people who said I
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: thought I was the only one. I thought I was
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: going mad, But I listened to you on gb News
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: or wherever, and it kept me saying because I thought, no,
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: it's not just me. And so you know that. Obviously,
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: the Internet was created, probably malevolently by DARPA and all
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: of the rest of it, as a means to harvest
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: data about all of us. But the flip side of
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: that coin was that at the same time it enabled
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: people to find each other, and that has been and
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: is being the undoing of the grand narrative because people
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: are going, Nah, see that thing they're saying about build
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: back better, that's ballocks. That and enough people were able
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: to find each other at the same time and share
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: that thought to think, yeah, yeah, it's not just me.
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: I think that's ballocks. And so does he, and so
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: does she, and so does she and so does he?
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: You know, and that has that has kept us, That
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: has kept us going. But yes, you make a good
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: point that COVID was simultaneously what we were being told,
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: and then it was Yeah, but when I look with
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: my own eyes, the two things are different. Now where
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: is the resolution for that conflict? We're still trying to
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: work that out.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: Give me a final insight.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: I I am optimistic because I think that all of
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: it is much It's a much grander experience than we
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: are capable of perceiving in our brief span of time
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: and with our limited senses. I think there's so much
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: more going on, and I think inevitably there are. There
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: are big stories that get told grand narratives and and
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: sometimes and for certain periods they are benign and they
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: work and they're helpful, but then but then that then
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: they they go sour, they can go off, and they
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: can they can become they can they can be no
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: longer serving the need, and so you know, other other
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: stories rise. And I think what's happening with the with
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: the collective coming together that's been enabled by social media
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: and the Internet, is that people are coming together and
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: beginning and it's not an ending, it's just it's just
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: the next stage. People are coming together and realizing that
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: there's a better story to be told. There's a better
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: story to tell. And so this, this sour story that's
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: gone bad after a period of time, will be is
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: being replaced in real time as we speak, by a
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: better story, and that will that will carry those of
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: us that want to tell it and take part in
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: it to the next stage. It will feel like a circle,
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: but it's just a line without a beginning and without
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: an end. That's what I think.
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 2: All right, Neil, how can I follow you?
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: Oh? Well, I'm on X for example, I'm at the
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: Coast guy. That's what people call me. I used to
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: make a television series called Coast and people would come
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: up to me in the street and they didn't know
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: my name, but they would say, you're the cost guy.
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: So I just took that as a as a badge
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: of honor. I have a YouTube channel. You find me.
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: I've got a Patreon presence. You can find me on
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: patreon dot com. You can find me on YouTube. Just
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: google my name, just YouTube my name, and you'll find
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: my content on my channel. I do a lot of history,
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: a lot of contemplation of you know, things archaeological and historical,
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: which for reasons we've been discussing for the last hour
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: or so, have you know, have morphed and metamorphosed and
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: changed over the time. I do a lot of sort
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: of ranting and raving about the iniquities of the present moment.
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: I interview some lovely people, fascinating people like you. I'll
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: have you on my channel. We'll talk on my channel.
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 2: I'll do it.
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm out there. You can find me, and I
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: write books. I've got about thirteen fourteen books out there.
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: You can find them wherever you find your books, your
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: favorite bookshop or online or whatever.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of thank you for joining me in
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 2: the trenches.
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: Pleasure Jeremy anytime. First of many. I hope