Latest / Deep-Grace Diving with Tim Wright and Terey Summers / #65 Tower of Babbling

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#65 Tower of Babbling · Deep-Grace Diving with Tim Wright and Terey Summers

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  Guten Tag, meine Freunde.
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  Sprechen Sie Deutsch?
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  Herr John?
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  Ein bisschen.
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  Ein bisschen.
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  SPEAKER_00: If you're wondering why is Tim trying to dredge up his first-year German,
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  SPEAKER_00: it's because we're talking about the Tower of Babel today,
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  SPEAKER_00: which on the surface tells us where languages came from.
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  SPEAKER_00: But as we've seen in the first 11 chapters of Genesis,
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  these stories are always very deceptive because they're not
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  really stories about
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  SPEAKER_00: events.
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  SPEAKER_00: They're stories about God and who God is.
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  SPEAKER_00: And today we wrap up this part of Genesis,
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  SPEAKER_00: these first 11 chapters,
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  SPEAKER_00: where we have these meaning stories,
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  SPEAKER_00: prehistory stories,
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  SPEAKER_00: that all set up what's going to start in Genesis chapter 12 next week,
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  SPEAKER_00: the call of Abraham.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so what we have in Genesis chapters 1 through 11 are stories,
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  SPEAKER_00: many of them taken from other cultures.
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  retold through the light of the the jewish god the hebrew god
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  uh and also as a way
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  to say that this god who called the people of israel this is
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  what your god is like
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  so today we're at the tower of babel or tower of babble or
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  babbling however you
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  want to talk about it i am here today as always with john
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  burgess john say hello
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  SPEAKER_00: and terry summers
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  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I trained you so well.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I had a little sound effect.
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  SPEAKER_00: I thought I'd use it.
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  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love it.
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  SPEAKER_02: Bring it on.
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  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
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  SPEAKER_00: So this is wrapping up a really important part of the Genesis story.
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  Because if we get this part of the story wrong,
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  we're going to get the rest of Genesis wrong.
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  If we misunderstand the character of God laid out for us in
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  Genesis 1 through 11,
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  we're going to misunderstand the character of God throughout
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  the rest of the Bible.
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  SPEAKER_00: And in some ways, the story of the Bible is precisely that.
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  SPEAKER_00: People, even the Jewish people, misunderstanding God.
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  saying things about god that are not true about god and god
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  having to step in over
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  and over again through prophets through kings uh through jesus
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  to say no this is
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  what god is like and by the way you would have found all of
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  that in genesis
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  chapters 1 through 11 or at least a lot of it so we're going to
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  kind of this last
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  SPEAKER_00: story the tower of babel kind of pulls together
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  SPEAKER_00: all of the various stories that we've had in Genesis 1 through 11,
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  from creation to Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden to the
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  murder committed by
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  SPEAKER_00: Cain,
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  SPEAKER_00: the flood,
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  SPEAKER_00: and now we have this story.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so Terry is going to read for us Genesis 11,
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  SPEAKER_00: verses 1 through 9,
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  SPEAKER_00: and then we will kind of talk about it,
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  SPEAKER_00: how it's written,
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  SPEAKER_00: and what it's saying.
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  SPEAKER_02: Great.
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  At one time,
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  all the people of the world spoke the same language and used
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  the same words.
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  SPEAKER_02: As the people migrated to the east,
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  SPEAKER_02: they found a plain in the land of Babylonia and settled there.
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  SPEAKER_02: They began saying to each other,
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  SPEAKER_02: Let's make bricks and harden them with fire.
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  In this region,
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  bricks were used instead of stone and tar was used for mortar.
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  SPEAKER_02: Then they said,
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  SPEAKER_02: come,
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  let's build a great city for ourselves with a tower that
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  reaches into the sky.
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  This will make us famous and keep us from being scattered all
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  over the world.
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  SPEAKER_02: But the Lord came down.
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  SPEAKER_02: to look at the city and the tower the people were building.
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  Look,
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  he said,
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  the people are united and they all speak the same language.
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  SPEAKER_02: After this, nothing they set out to do will be impossible for them.
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  SPEAKER_02: Come.
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  SPEAKER_02: Let's go down and confuse the people with different languages.
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  SPEAKER_02: Then they won't be able to understand each other.
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  In that way,
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  the Lord scattered them all over the world,
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  and they stopped building the city.
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  SPEAKER_02: That is why the city was called Babel,
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  because that is where the Lord confused the people with
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  different languages.
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  SPEAKER_02: In this way, he scattered them all over the world.
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  SPEAKER_00: All righty.
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  SPEAKER_00: This is another one of those little stories from Sunday school.
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  where nothing wrong with that you just sort of get that
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  simplistic view of the
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  story all these people come together and then they're trying to
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  become like god and
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  then god gives them different languages and they're dispersed
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  throughout the world
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  SPEAKER_00: and that boys and girls is how we got different languages in the world
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  SPEAKER_00: That's not what this story is saying,
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  just like the story was not saying that God created the heavens
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  and the earth in
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  SPEAKER_00: seven days.
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  SPEAKER_00: This is using an ancient story and some real stuff as well,
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  SPEAKER_00: which we'll talk about in a moment,
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  SPEAKER_00: to say something about the character of God once again.
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  SPEAKER_00: And there are,
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  SPEAKER_00: Terry will love this because she's an actor or actress,
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  SPEAKER_00: whatever,
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  SPEAKER_00: is it actor now?
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  SPEAKER_02: You know, I don't know.
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  SPEAKER_00: I think she's in the acting business.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_00: And she loves callbacks.
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  SPEAKER_00: When she's writing stuff, she loves the callback.
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  And so we have a lot of that here in Genesis chapter 11,
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  callbacks to especially chapter one.
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  SPEAKER_00: But before we do that,
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  SPEAKER_00: Terry,
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  SPEAKER_00: John,
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  SPEAKER_00: any initial just sort of thoughts about the story,
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  SPEAKER_00: questions that come up for you?
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  Otherwise,
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  we're going to dive in and kind of go verse by verse today on
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  this one.
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  SPEAKER_01: Well,
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  I just think it's totally human to be sitting around the
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  campfire and then start
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  SPEAKER_01: building a monument to our own greatness.
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  SPEAKER_01: You know, I mean,
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  SPEAKER_01: I don't even know if anybody even knew where this city was,
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  SPEAKER_01: but they're like,
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  SPEAKER_01: well,
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  SPEAKER_01: if anyone,
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  SPEAKER_01: and it makes me,
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  SPEAKER_01: it just makes me think of,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: driving into the city where I live,
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  SPEAKER_01: there's,
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  SPEAKER_01: they,
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  SPEAKER_01: they,
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  SPEAKER_01: a couple of years ago,
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  SPEAKER_01: they went ahead and upgraded the,
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  SPEAKER_01: um,
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  SPEAKER_01: you're now entering,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: the city,
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  SPEAKER_01: it's kind of a monument and now it has a little flame on it.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I always drive by and think,
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  SPEAKER_01: I don't,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  I don't think anybody's wondering exactly where they are or
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  they need to know what
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  SPEAKER_01: that on that side.
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  we're just so good at like building these monuments to our own
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  greatness.
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  SPEAKER_01: So that's, that speaks to me a lot.
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  SPEAKER_01: That's superhuman.
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  SPEAKER_01: And then,
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  SPEAKER_01: and then of course the rest of it,
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  SPEAKER_01: my question is that does not seem very grace filled at all.
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  And so I'm looking forward to having you flesh that out for us
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  in English and not
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  SPEAKER_01: so much German.
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  SPEAKER_01: Alrighty.
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  SPEAKER_00: Very good.
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  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
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  SPEAKER_02: And I was basically going to say the same thing.
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  SPEAKER_02: It kind of says, uh, at least in inferring that, uh, wow, God, um,
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  SPEAKER_02: Like even for a moment,
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  it makes me think that they thought or the writer or however
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  this is being told,
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  SPEAKER_02: if we were to go literal,
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  SPEAKER_02: that while he's a little insecure,
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  SPEAKER_02: that he's going to have to mess everything up language wise,
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  SPEAKER_02: you know,
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  SPEAKER_02: just to be like,
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  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to go knock their toys down kind of thing.
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  SPEAKER_02: So I'd never kind of heard it that way before.
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  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
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  SPEAKER_00: again,
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  SPEAKER_00: all of that stuff is in there,
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  SPEAKER_00: but as we've seen over and over again,
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  all of these little pieces are used to say something that turns
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  the story kind of
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  SPEAKER_00: on its head.
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  SPEAKER_00: Right.
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  SPEAKER_02: Right.
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  So let me very quickly kind of give you an outline of how this
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  story works out in
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  SPEAKER_00: Genesis chapters 1 through 11.
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  SPEAKER_00: Again, Genesis chapters 1 through 11 are what we call prehistory.
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  SPEAKER_00: They are stories about primeval times, story before time.
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  SPEAKER_00: These are oftentimes stories that were borrowed mainly from Babylon.
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  SPEAKER_00: And where does this story take place?
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  SPEAKER_00: On the Babylonian Plain.
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  And as we know,
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  later on in the story,
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  Babylon becomes the arch enemy of the Israelites.
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  SPEAKER_00: So there's stuff going on here.
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  And so they take these stories,
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  they retell them from the perspective of the Hebrew God.
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  SPEAKER_00: So, for example, in chapter one, we have the beginning of the beginning.
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  SPEAKER_00: In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.
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  And one of the things we noticed back then was that it was God
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  who created the sun,
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  SPEAKER_00: the moon,
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  SPEAKER_00: and the stars.
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  SPEAKER_00: In essence,
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  saying that God is God and the sun and the moon and the stars
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  that you worship,
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  SPEAKER_00: they are not gods.
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  SPEAKER_00: They're created things.
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  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
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  So then we get to Genesis 11 and we kind of come to the end of
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  the beginning.
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  SPEAKER_00: All right.
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  SPEAKER_00: This is sort of the last story of the beginning stories.
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  SPEAKER_00: And it's rejecting living life based on these heavenly bodies.
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  One of the reasons why they built these large towers was to
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  study the stars and
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  SPEAKER_00: live their lives by them.
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  SPEAKER_00: So in Genesis 1, God creates the stars.
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  SPEAKER_00: God is the... Oh, we lost Terry.
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  SPEAKER_00: God creates the sun and the moon.
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  SPEAKER_00: And they're not to be worshipped.
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  And then in chapter 11,
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  we've got a tower being built in order to worship them.
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  And so God,
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  once again,
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  has to remind the people that's not what they're there for.
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  SPEAKER_00: In Genesis chapter 3,
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  we have Adam and Eve who are grabbing at that fruit to become
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  more like God.
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  SPEAKER_00: In Genesis chapter 11,
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  we have them building a tower in order to reach the gods to be
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  more like them,
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  SPEAKER_00: or if not more like them,
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  SPEAKER_00: to control the gods.
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  In the creation story,
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  God brings order out of chaos in Genesis chapter 1,
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  verses 1 and 2.
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  SPEAKER_00: In the story of the fall and in the story of Noah and the ark,
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  SPEAKER_00: chaos enters back into the world.
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  And now what the Tower of Babel is about is human beings trying
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  to bring order out of chaos.
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  And part of what the story is saying that that's God's job,
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  not human's job.
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  SPEAKER_00: Basically what humans do is they create chaos.
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  SPEAKER_00: God is the one who brings order.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so we have these touch points, right?
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  SPEAKER_00: Because we had the first story of creation,
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  SPEAKER_00: the last story of this tower of human beings through their creation,
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  SPEAKER_00: trying to become like gods.
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  SPEAKER_00: So let's kind of, we'll just go verse by verse.
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  SPEAKER_00: And if things come up that are of interest to you, let me know.
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  SPEAKER_00: Verse one, now the whole earth had one language and the same words.
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  The word one language here really means one lip,
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  which means basically,
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  yeah,
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  the same.
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  SPEAKER_00: Everybody had the same speech, right?
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  SPEAKER_00: That makes sense.
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  SPEAKER_00: A unifying speech.
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  SPEAKER_00: We would all understand each other in the story.
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  SPEAKER_00: Verse two,
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  SPEAKER_00: as they migrated from the east,
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  SPEAKER_00: they came upon a plain in the land of Shinar or Babylon,
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  SPEAKER_00: and they settled there.
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  So here are some beginnings of connection to the wandering
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  people of Israel.
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  SPEAKER_00: So this story is about people moving from the east.
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  SPEAKER_00: They're migrating.
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  SPEAKER_00: They have this journey to the land of Shinar.
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  We know that the people of Israel,
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  starting with Abraham,
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  is going to make a journey.
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  He's going to leave his homeland,
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  and he's going to journey to the land of Canaan.
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  SPEAKER_00: We have the journey of the Exodus, people wandering in the wilderness.
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  SPEAKER_00: And there may be here a little hint of they were wandering from the east,
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  SPEAKER_00: which,
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  SPEAKER_00: if you remember,
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  SPEAKER_00: is kind of east of Eden,
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  SPEAKER_00: perhaps.
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  SPEAKER_00: They wandered from that place.
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  uh of uh the place of god and now they are wandering in
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  banishment from it all
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  right so could also have sort of a sense all we like sheep have
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  gone astray sort of
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  wandered from the one who is the source of life and now we're
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  going to try to build
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  it ourselves and they said to one another come let us make
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  bricks and burn them
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  SPEAKER_00: thoroughly
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  SPEAKER_00: And they had brick for stone and bitumen for mortar.
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  SPEAKER_00: Then they said,
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  SPEAKER_00: Come,
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  SPEAKER_00: let us build ourselves a city and a tower with its top in the heavens,
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  SPEAKER_00: and let us make a name for ourselves.
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  SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, we shall be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.
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  SPEAKER_00: So first thing, again, this is being told now to the people of Israel.
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  SPEAKER_00: So they're going to hear things that we might not hear at first blush.
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  SPEAKER_03: For sure.
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  SPEAKER_00: Come, let us make bricks.
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  SPEAKER_00: Now,
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  SPEAKER_00: if you've just escaped from Egypt and you were slaves there,
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  SPEAKER_00: what was it that you were making in Egypt?
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  SPEAKER_00: You were making bricks, right?
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  SPEAKER_00: You were making bricks out of mud.
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  SPEAKER_00: And at one point,
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  SPEAKER_00: early on in the journey to try to get away,
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  SPEAKER_00: they were even forced then to go out and get their own straw.
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  So right away,
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  the Jewish people were thinking,
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  bricks,
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  yeah,
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  we know what that's about.
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  SPEAKER_00: We've been there, done that.
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  And so remember,
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  God says in chapter one,
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  let us make humans in our own image,
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  In chapter 11,
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  the people are saying,
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  let us make a tower to the heavens.
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  SPEAKER_00: So you've got in chapter one, God creating human beings in God's image.
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  SPEAKER_00: And now you've got in chapter 11,
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  human beings trying to build themselves or create themselves
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  into God's image.
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  SPEAKER_00: Through the building of their building, through technology.
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  SPEAKER_00: And John, you mentioned it a little bit.
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  SPEAKER_00: this driving force in humankind for technology,
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  SPEAKER_00: which isn't a bad thing,
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  SPEAKER_00: but technology to make us great,
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  SPEAKER_00: not always to serve.
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  SPEAKER_00: Another thing that might be interesting here,
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  SPEAKER_00: they're using mud bricks as their stone,
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  SPEAKER_00: which are inferior to the Palestinian stone.
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  SPEAKER_00: So in Israel, they had stone, which was great for building things.
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  SPEAKER_00: And if you go to Israel ever,
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  SPEAKER_00: you see these big mammoth towers that Herod built out of the stone.
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  SPEAKER_00: That stuff lasts.
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  SPEAKER_00: Mud bricks don't last.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so this might be a little way of poking fun at these Babylonians.
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  SPEAKER_00: They use mud.
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  SPEAKER_00: We got the real stuff.
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  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_00: In chapter 2, God breathes life into muddy earth.
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  SPEAKER_00: Remember that?
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  SPEAKER_00: He takes the dirt.
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  SPEAKER_00: He breathes life into it and creates a human being.
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  Here we have Babylonians burning muddy earth trying to make
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  lifeless bricks.
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  SPEAKER_00: So everything sort of turned on its head with this story.
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  SPEAKER_00: God breathes life into mud.
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  SPEAKER_00: Human beings can only take mud and make lifeless bricks.
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  SPEAKER_00: They decide that they want to build a tower to reach to the sky,
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  SPEAKER_00: to reach to God or to reach to the gods.
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  SPEAKER_00: And there are actually, this is an actual thing.
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  SPEAKER_00: These are real towers.
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  And the name of these towers that were built in Babylon were
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  called ziggurats,
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  ziggurats.
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  And they were a temple type structure built in Babylon to
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  worship the gods,
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  SPEAKER_00: to honor the gods or to try to get to the gods.
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  SPEAKER_00: So these are the real things.
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  SPEAKER_00: So the people of Israel,
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  SPEAKER_00: they may not have ever seen one,
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  SPEAKER_00: but certainly would have heard about them.
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  SPEAKER_00: These things were massive and majestic.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so this is what they're trying to build.
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  SPEAKER_00: This is what the Tower of Babel would mean to them.
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  SPEAKER_00: They would have this picture of a ziggurat in their minds.
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  So they want to reach to the sky because essentially what they
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  want to do is they
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  SPEAKER_00: want to learn the patterns of the stars.
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  SPEAKER_00: They want to control the elements based on those patterns.
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  SPEAKER_00: They want...
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  to seek wisdom for themselves rather than to live on the basis
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  of God's wisdom
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  SPEAKER_00: through their technology.
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  SPEAKER_00: They're also trying to make a name for themselves,
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: which is what John says,
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: you build the biggest tower,
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: you put your name on it,
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: in order to take the place of God.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: What God's going to do,
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: as we'll see in the next chapter,
• 17:37
  is that it's God who makes people's names great through God's
• 17:41
  grace and God's call.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so this is what they're attempting to do, right?
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: They're attempting to use technology in order to control the stars,
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: to intuit the stars,
• 17:57
  to figure out the patterns so that they can determine their own
• 18:01
  lives rather than
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: live within the wisdom of God.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: The Lord came down.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: to see the city and the tower which mortals had built.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: So a couple things here I think are interesting.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: For me,
• 18:20
  it's a little bit of a reminder of after Adam and Eve ate the
• 18:25
  fruit and God came
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: walking in the garden to find them.
• 18:32
  And at this case now,
• 18:34
  God's got God's rebellious human beings building this tower.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: Trying to get to God.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: And yet, here again, the writer is brilliant.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: He's being snarky here.
• 18:50
  They think they've got a tower reaching to God,
• 18:52
  and yet God had to come down to them still.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't high enough.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: He had to come down to look at it.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so here we sort of have the story turning now.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: You've got human beings puffed up thinking we can do this.
• 19:12
  And suddenly God comes down and you realize how vast and big
• 19:15
  God is and how small
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: human beings really are.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so the Lord said,
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: and here once again,
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: as in chapter one,
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: where God speaks the royal we,
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: or he seems to be speaking to the royal court.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: Once again, God seems to be speaking to the royal court.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: He said,
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: look,
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: they are one people,
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: and they all have one language,
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: and this is only the beginning of what they will do.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: Nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: Remember when God said about Adam and Eve,
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: look,
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: they've got the tree of life and the tree of wisdom.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: If we let them stay here, nothing will be impossible for them.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: True.
• 19:56
  because God understood and still understands to this day that
• 20:00
  we're created in
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: God's image and we have the potential to use God's image,
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: so to speak,
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: for good or for evil.
• 20:12
  And that's why God in both of these stories has to put some
• 20:16
  sort of parameters around that.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: Just think about the technological advances that we've seen
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: in our lifetimes, from rotary phones to iPhones.
• 20:33
  The three of us right now,
• 20:34
  we're talking to each other and we're looking at each other.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: And none of us are in the same place.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then people are going to listen to this on little phones or iPads.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: But think also of Hiroshima.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: and the technology that wiped out millions of people.
• 20:54
  Think about what wars have done with bombs and guns and so on
• 21:00
  and so forth.
• 21:01
  Our propensity to use the image of God that we are to destroy
• 21:05
  the image of God.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why these are,
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: it's not that God's afraid of us,
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: it's that God is afraid of what we will do to each other.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe not afraid, that may not be the best word.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: God knows what we can do to each other.
• 21:22
  And that's why you hear this concern from God in chapter 3 and
• 21:27
  in chapter 11.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: These people will have the capacity to destroy each other,
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: which,
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: of course,
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: we're going to see throughout Scripture.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so God's concerned.
• 21:36
  And that's why God wants to put some boundaries around this
• 21:40
  ability by mixing up
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: all their languages.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: Verses 7-9.
• 21:49
  Come let us go down and confuse their language so that they
• 21:54
  will not be able to
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: understand each other's speech.
• 21:56
  So the Lord scattered them abroad from there over the face of
• 21:59
  the earth and they
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: left off building the city.
• 22:01
  Therefore it was called Babel because there the Lord confused
• 22:05
  the language of all
• 22:06
  the earth and from there the Lord scattered them abroad over
• 22:09
  the face of all the
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: earth.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: Now, a tiny part of this
• 22:16
  is just one way of sort of explaining how do we have all these
• 22:18
  different languages and people.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: But that, again, isn't the point of the story.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: The point of the story is human beings trying to be like God.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: We always come up short.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: We always end up being destructive.
• 22:32
  And God then comes with grace and kindness to try to limit the
• 22:37
  damage and more than
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: that,
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: to find us and to redeem us,
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: which is going to start chapter 12 with Abraham.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's part of what the story is.
• 22:49
  This is also a story that serves as a polemic or biting satire
• 22:56
  on Babylon.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: Again, they will be the enemy of the Jews.
• 22:59
  It will be Babylon in 586 BC who will conquer the people of
• 23:04
  Israel and basically
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: send them all into exile.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so this is a kind of a knock against Babylon.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: for the Babylonians, the word Babel or Babel means the gate of God.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: But for the Hebrews, Babel means mixed up and confused.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: So they've taken this word that's a sacred word for the Babylonians.
• 23:33
  Hey,
• 23:34
  this is our gate of God,
• 23:35
  and they've called it the gate of confusion.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: Your gods bring only confusion.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: They bring only destruction.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_03: Hmm.
• 23:46
  And so,
• 23:48
  what you have,
• 23:49
  again,
• 23:50
  this is sort of the end point of the stories.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: The story of a God who creates.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: What God creates is good.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: It is beautiful.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: It is fit for purpose.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: God creates human beings in God's image.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: Breathes life into them.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: Desires to have relationship with them.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: But then human beings...
• 24:13
  release chaos back into the world human beings release chaos
• 24:18
  into the world in
• 24:18
  genesis chapter 3 when they decide to disobey god they unleash
• 24:25
  chaos in the world
• 24:26
  when cain murders his brother abel they unleash chaos in the
• 24:30
  world in chapter 6 and
• 24:31
  so on when the the violence gets to be to such a point that
• 24:34
  it's become a flood of
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: violence
• 24:37
  And now these human beings who have unleashed all the chaos
• 24:40
  want to try to reign in
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: the chaos,
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: just making it worse.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: And God intervenes.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: And ironically,
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: by creating some confusion,
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: by scattering them with languages,
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: God is bringing some order back to the world,
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 24:58
  He's bringing a little bit of sanity back to the world so that
• 25:03
  people don't rally
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: together and just blow themselves up.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: So this end story,
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: the beginning story starts with God in the beginning,
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: God which is there and he creates.
• 25:15
  And this last story is saying the God of Israel,
• 25:19
  this God is the God of all the nations.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: This God sits in heaven and no one can reach this God.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: This God comes to us.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: This God comes to us with grace and compassion.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what the story's about.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: there's a lot there,
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: right,
• 25:36
  for what seems to be a simple little story about how languages
• 25:39
  came to be.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: But it's really, again, a story about God and about human beings.
• 25:45
  Our propensity to mess it up and God's propensity to try to fix
• 25:48
  it and redeem us
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: and reconcile us.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: So that's chapters 1 through 11.
• 25:55
  And as you can kind of see all these callbacks over and over
• 25:57
  again throughout the
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: story,
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: the stories.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then that will set up the first wandering story.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: And that will be Abraham that comes next week.
• 26:04
  This God of all the universe now gets very specific and chooses
• 26:10
  one family group to
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: bless the entire world.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: But we'll get to that next week.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: So any comments, questions, clarification?
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: as we kind of wrap up Genesis chapter 1 through 11.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: John, go ahead.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: Terry's pointing at you.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: Well,
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: I think the whole thing's fascinating,
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: and I think it's...
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: I really appreciate your insight as we walk through it.
• 26:34
  I also think one of the hard things about reading this
• 26:37
  particular provision is...
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: the people start to,
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: create things to reach the heavens,
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: to step into God's business and be more of God than they should be.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: And then his response is confusing their language and scattering.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I just think that sometimes it's hard to figure out,
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: did the response,
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 27:01
  does that make sense to do those things in response to what
• 27:05
  they're doing?
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: It just seems like there could be a mismatch there.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: But,
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 27:09
  I don't want to step into God and tell him that there is a
• 27:12
  mismatch in the
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: provision that we're learning about stepping into God's business either.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well, a couple of things I would say is in that act,
• 27:24
  God was protecting humankind because it stopped them from this
• 27:32
  constant,
• 27:33
  for the moment,
• 27:34
  right?
• 27:35
  It stopped them from creating some sort of technical
• 27:41
  monstrosity that in the end
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: would have harmed a lot of them.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: Now, again, we see this happening over and over again.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: throughout Scripture and, of course, in modern history.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: But part of what this story is saying,
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: in the end,
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: part of what this story is saying is that God is God and you're not.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: God is God and the stars are not.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: God is God and the moon is not.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: God is God and your technology is not.
• 28:10
  And the path to wisdom and life is found in relationship with
• 28:14
  God and living under God.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: the rule,
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: the compassion,
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: the grace of God,
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: rather than living under our own reason,
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: our selfishness,
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: and so on.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: So that's really kind of the point.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: And also to say,
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: again,
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: the beliefs in ancient world were that the gods were tribal,
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: that every tribe,
• 28:41
  every country had its own god or gods and only cared about
• 28:45
  their own country.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: except for the God of Israel, who is the God of all, and cared.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: And this is where the Jewish people often struggle,
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: and where Christian people to this day often struggle,
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: that God actually loves the other people too,
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: the ones who aren't a part of our tribe.
• 29:03
  And that's what makes these stories so radical that this God
• 29:07
  created all of it and
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: loves all of it.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: This God created all of it and blesses all of it.
• 29:12
  And this God created all of it and wants to redeem it and find
• 29:16
  it and reconcile it.
• 29:19
  And you don't get that kind of God story any other place than
• 29:23
  in Hebrew scriptures
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: or Christian scriptures.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_02: I feel very differently today than I have in previous podcasts,
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_02: but I think you called it out for me,
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_02: Tim,
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_02: about the callback.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_02: So like when a comedian does a callback...
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: and a callback being something usually,
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_02: I mean,
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_02: it can be repeated a lot of times,
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_02: but usually like,
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_02: let's say three or so.
• 29:56
  And it's where the author or the comedian harkens back to
• 30:01
  something that they said
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_02: or the way they said it earlier on in the set.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_02: And then they do it again.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_02: And then you get a different connection from the audience,
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_02: but the audience is still thinking,
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_02: then they think about that first one.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_02: And then when you get down,
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_02: So it informs the listener,
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_02: the audience,
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_02: on the fact that the authority,
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_02: the comedian or the actor or the writer or whatever,
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_02: was in charge all along.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_02: They were paying attention.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_02: They were they had by design were delivering these pieces,
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_02: but they already knew back at number one.
• 30:41
  And so something just went for me today in hearing this because
• 30:47
  of the callback.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_02: So I think you pointing that out,
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_02: at least for me as a listener,
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_02: has really helped me go,
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: OK,
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_02: well,
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_02: I see that like I have chill bumps,
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_02: kind of like I see this in the same way that you said.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_02: use the example of what was it that God showed up in the garden,
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_02: I was saying,
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_02: you know what I mean?
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like I see that little callback showing up even here.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: And again,
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: that's why the,
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: the,
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: the beauty of these first 11 stories,
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: we've grown up taking them as separate stories.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: And you can do that.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: But there is a through line through all of these stories.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: And they're using these various stories to,
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: to say the same things over and over again, just in different ways.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: And that's sort of the beauty of these first 11 chapters,
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: is the writer really wants to hammer home to us,
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: your God is really different.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: Your God didn't create you so that you could feed your God.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: Your God created you so your God could feed you.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: Your God doesn't create out of violence.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: Your God creates out of goodness and love.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: Your God isn't just for your tribe.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: Your God cares about the whole world.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: And your God will step in when you're about to massacre yourselves.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: Your God's going to step in and try to put the brakes on.
• 32:13
  so that you recognize that you have this great potential but
• 32:16
  with that great
• 32:17
  potential comes great responsibility or great destruction which
• 32:24
  we see of course in
• 32:24
  the noah story and and others so yeah those are all the through
• 32:28
  lines and and to
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: remember that the these things that happen um
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: When in the Garden of Eden,
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: Adam and Eve,
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: they find out it's going to be hard work now to take care of the land.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's going to be hard work to give birth to a baby.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: Or after the flood, there's this, that, that.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: None of these things are punishments.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: These are results of our actions.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: And God keeps trying to intervene.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then, of course, as we'll see starting next week,
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: The story begins.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: So another talking point really is that chapters 1 through 11,
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: even though they are universal and cosmic in scale,
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: really set up the story of Abraham.
• 33:14
  Because all of the genealogies ultimately from Adam and Eve
• 33:17
  through Noah are going
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: to lead to Abraham.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so this God who created it all, that's the God of Abraham.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: that's the one who's calling you.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: And that becomes then the basis of their understanding of God.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: Now,
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: whether Abraham had all that information about God or not,
• 33:40
  he probably didn't because we think these stories were written
• 33:43
  after the Exodus.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: And he was the first Jewish guy, technically.
• 33:49
  But there was something going on for Abraham that we'll talk
• 33:53
  about next week.
• 33:55
  that said he knows something about this God or this God reveals
• 33:57
  something to him
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: that moves him to act in a way that's really surprising.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: So, yes.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: So we're now leaving behind this wonderful storytelling and we move,
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: as one person said,
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: sort of from genealogies to biography.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: And that will be next week.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: And first of all, let's get our music going here.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: I hit the wrong button.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: There it is.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: What's going on?
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, well, let's just say goodbye.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know that circle of death that you get on computers?
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm getting it on my music right now.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: The spin.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the spin.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: What could go wrong?
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, nothing.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: This is my hammer.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, we lost it.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: All right, go ahead, John.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: Auf Wiedersehen.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: That's it.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's it?
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: I turned the water, I turned the music off for that?
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's all I got.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: People turned off their podcasts a long time ago.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: See you all next week.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_03: See you next week, y'all.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_02: Bye.