Latest / Legally Brunette / Legally Brunette Presents: ‘Til Death Do Us Part - Mark Winger & “The Intruder”

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Legally Brunette Presents: ‘Til Death Do Us Part - Mark Winger & “The Intruder” · Legally Brunette

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Hi guys, welcome to Till Death Do Us Part. I
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: will be your host today, Emily Simpson and... Shane. Okay,
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: today we are going to talk about the case of
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Mark Winger. And I actually have known about this case
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: for many years because as you all know, I am
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: a huge fan of Forensic Files. So this was actually
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: one of the Forensic File episodes. However, it's also been
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: like on 2020. I also watched some other documentaries. So
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: it's one of those cases that's been out there. It's
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: had a lot of you know, re-dramatizations and a lot
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: of talk about it. So we're going to talk about
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: Mark Winger. So Springfield, Illinois, in August of 1995, Mark
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: and Donna Winger had everything they'd ever wanted, a quiet home,
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: a steady life, and a baby girl that they had
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: waited years to hold. Then Donna came home from a
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: trip and was very shaken. The man who drove her
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: home from the airport had said things that she could
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: not forget.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: Six days later, that same man was standing inside the
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: Winger home. By the time police arrived, Donna was dying
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: on the floor. The stranger beside her on the floor
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: as well. And Mark was their only witness. Investigators believe
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: Mark and the case was closed. The town mourned and
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: life moved on. But some stories are told so perfectly
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: that they leave no room for questions and a few
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: people couldn't stop asking them. It would take years before
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: anyone learned who had actually walked into the house that afternoon.
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: Is Mark Winger a husband?
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: Yes, Mark Winger is the husband.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: Okay, so she got a ride home?
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, we need to hold on to that because
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: that is evidence. That is something that we're going to
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: bring up later. But on her ride home, whoever her
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: driver was, was very erratic and very volatile. And she
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: had a really strange encounter with him.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: What year is this?
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: This is.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: I was wondering, is.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: It like an Uber driver?
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: This is a 1995. It's a pre-Uber. Pre-Uber.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: This is not an Uber driver. So anyway, she had
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: a very... strange encounter with the taxi driver that left
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: her very shaken up. All right, let's do a little
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: background on Donna and Mark first, though. So in early 1988,
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: Mark Winger is set up on a blind date with
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: Donna Ellen Brown. She is an operating room technician who
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: worked with his brother. He proposes after about six months
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: of dating. Donna was the eldest of three sisters in
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: a very close family. Her sister, Jenny, later said that
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: Donna felt that she had found her person. It always
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: makes me sad, because you know the outcome is going
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: to be bad.
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: So the fact that she thinks... Yeah, but we know
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: now it's going to be bad.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: We know now, but the fact that she thinks she
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: found her person.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: Maybe it was her person, and then it turned into
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: not her person.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: Mark and Donna's wedding announcement even made it into the
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: New York Times. March 4th of 1989, Mark and Donna
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: marry at Temple Sollell. Mark worked as a nuclear engineer.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: I always think it's interesting. I always felt like that's
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: one of those jobs that's not real. It's like when
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: you're like a rocket scientist, you know?
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: They're real.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: I know, but it just sounds like, I don't know,
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: he's a nuclear engineer.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: Okay. Okay. And he's also a murderer apparently.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: Well, we haven't gotten there yet. He's a nuclear engineer
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: for the state. And Donna is an operating room technician. Um,
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: in the early nineties, they try to have children. They're unsuccessful.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: Donna learns that she's unable to have children. So while
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: she's working in the hospital, she learns that a baby
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: is up for adoption. So they end up adopting a
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: baby girl who they named Bailey. And this is on
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: June 1st of 1995.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: So far, it sounds really good. Nuclear physicist, scientist. She's
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: a nurse. An OR nurse. Yeah. Adopt a baby.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: Adopt a baby girl.
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: He's her person.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: He's her person.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: Yes.
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  Speaker 1: That's how I describe you.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: So if I describe you as my person, what does
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: that mean?
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: Just like the wingers, you're my person.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're my person too.
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: You're going to kill me one day, aren't you?
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: No, I'm not.
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: Yes. Don't even put that... Death by a thousand paper cuts.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: Yes. All right. Let's talk about this shuttle ride that
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: Donna took. So This is on August 23rd of 1995.
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: So she was visiting her parents in Florida with the baby.
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: And Donna takes a shuttle from Lambert Airport in St.
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: Louis.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: Her driver's name is Roger Harrington. And he works.
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: For a shuttle company.
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: He works for a shuttle company.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: Donna and Bailey are the only passengers, and Harrington reportedly
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: frightens her with talk of drugs and sex and parties.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: He's also driving erratically. Harrington allegedly described a voice in
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: his head that he named Dom, and that tells him
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: to do bad things.
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: Can you imagine, though?
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: That's scary.
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: How long was this car ride?
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: Like over an hour. But she's in a shuttle alone
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: with a baby and her driver is erratic and he's
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: talking about parties and wild sex.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: And Dom's in the car apparently.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: And Dom is with him, yes.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: Giving him instructions.
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  Speaker 1: Dom's riding shotgun.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: Hopefully Dom's nice.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: I don't know. So that same day, Mark, this is
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: the husband, who's away on business in Tennessee, urges Donna
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: to write down her full encounter with Roger Harrington. She does.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: So she writes it on yellow legal paper. She writes
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: down the whole thing. And she tapes the notes of
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: what happened to the fridge in their kitchen. So that's
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: like yellow legal paper. What would you, if I told
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: you that, what would you tell me to do? If
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: I came home and said, I was frightened by a
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: driver and I had our baby, Annabelle's a baby and
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: she's with me and he was driving erratically. He said
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: he had a voice in his head and he scared me.
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: What would I do?
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I love the pause.
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: I don't think I would tell you to write it
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: on a legal pad and put it on the refrigerator. Well,
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: I don't know if he told her.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: To hang it on the refrigerator, but she does. I
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: don't know. Or maybe he did direct her to do that.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: I don't know. But he does tell her to write
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: out the whole scenario on paper. Yeah.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: Document it. Yeah.
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: So would you tell me to document it or would
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: you call the company?
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: I'd probably ask you what you said to him to
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: set him off.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, see, I knew you were going to say that.
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: I knew, I knew.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: I'm at a point in my life where... Like if
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: you come home and you say like, I don't know,
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: the lady at the grocery store was yelling at you
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: or whatever, I'd be like, well, what'd you do to
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: set her off? Like before in the beginning, it might
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: be like, oh my gosh, that's terrible. Why would she
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: say such a thing? Yes. Now it's like, well, what'd
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: you say to her?
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: Why did she do that?
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: Thank you for the continued support. I appreciate it. All right,
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: in the following days after this happened, the Wingers got
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: several hang-up calls that they suspect are tied to the driver.
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: They call police who add patrols.
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, the driver now knows where she lives if
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: you dropped her off at the house.
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: You dropped her off at home. And Mark complains to,
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: it's called BART. It's the Boothiel Area Rapid Transit. So
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: that was who owned the shuttle service.
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: So he complains to the company. Oh, that's funny because
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: there's a BART system in San Francisco. It's called the
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: Bay Area Rapid Transit.
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: Okay, so that would be BART.
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah. What's yours?
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: BART.
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I just said. It's the same thing. Yes,
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: it's the same thing. But up there, they call it
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: the Bay Area Rapid Transit.
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: Okay, this is the Boothiel Area Rapid Transit.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: And anyway, then Roger Harrington is suspended. So he gets
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: in trouble.
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: He has vacation time.
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: All right, so this is the day of the murder.
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: So I do know Mark Winger is in the basement
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: of his house, and he's on the treadmill.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: He's running on the treadmill. And then he hears what
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: he claims. This is by his account, right? He claims
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: that he hears a lot of thumps upstairs, and so
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: he runs upstairs. And when he runs upstairs, he goes
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: to the bedroom first.
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: He's riding on the treadmill.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: He's riding on the treadmill and then he runs upstairs
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: and then he runs upstairs because he hears noises. Then
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: he runs upstairs and he finds the baby Bailey laying
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  Speaker 1: on the bed and she's unharmed. She's just lying on
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: the bed and like the primary bedroom. Then he claims
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: that he goes into like the kitchen dining room area.
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  Speaker 1: And then that's where he sees Roger Harrington. And he
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: sees Donna laying on the floor. And she has blood
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: all over her. So Roger Harrington had shown up at
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: the house at their address around 4.30 p.m.
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: Clearly he had the day off.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: And he walked into the Winger home carrying a cup
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: of coffee and cigarettes. Mark claims that when he heard
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: the commotion upstairs that he grabbed his gun and then
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: found Roger Harrington in the dining room area swinging a
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: hammer at Donna's head repeatedly.
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: Wait, did he see them first and then go get
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: his gun?
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: No, he got his gun first.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: So he saw the baby peacefully on the bed.
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: Peacefully on the bed.
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: Let me go get my gun. Yes.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: Which I think is very important because he does get
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: his gun. And then he goes into the dining room
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: kitchen area, and that's where he sees Roger Harrington hitting
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: his wife Donna, where he claims that he sees her
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: being hit with a hammer. Now, remember, when Roger Harrington
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: came into the house, he didn't have a hammer. He
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: had cigarettes and a cup of coffee in his hands.
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: So then Mark claims that there was a hammer laying
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: on the dining room table because Donna had been asking
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: him to, like, hang a picture on the wall or something.
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: Uh-huh.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: And so I guess he hadn't done it yet. This
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: is a very husband wife thing. She had asked him
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: repeatedly to do it. And I guess he'd never gotten
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: around to doing it. So she brought the hammer and
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: nails and picture and like laid them on the dining room. Like, hello.
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: I don't think that's true.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: I don't think so either. But I'm just telling you
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: that was his story that she had laid the hammer.
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: I know what you're getting at. You're getting at the whole,
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: the wife has to ask husband many times to do
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: something until she finally gets it out herself.
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: Did you, I don't know. I felt like it was
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: so subtle. You didn't understand. You, you, you got on,
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: you caught on.
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, except that didn't happen in this case.
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: She never asked him to hang anything. He's a killer.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: Maybe she did.
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: You don't know. This is a marriage. They are husband
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: and wife. She probably did ask him repeatedly.
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: Anyway, so Mark comes into the room. He claims that
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: he sees Roger Harrington hitting her with a hammer. He
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: uses his gun. He fires. and he shoots Roger Harrington.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: He shoots him twice in the head. Mark calls 911.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: They arrive.
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: Wait, he only shot Roger Harrington?
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: Yes. Well, his wife's laying on the floor dead from
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: being beaten with a hammer.
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: But he claims it was Roger Harrington that beat her
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: with a hammer. Okay. That he grabbed from the dining
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: room table.
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: How do you kill someone with a hammer?
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: I don't know, but that's a rage killing, right? I mean,
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: you have to really hate someone to do that. Because
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: that's just so intimate and violent and gross.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: I mean, if I... Because that's almost not blunt force.
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: Because it's going to penetrate. But it's not a knife either.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: Because at least a knife... As gruesome as it is,
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: it would be kind of more of a clean, like... No,
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: that's not clean.
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: Like if you're hitting.
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: I know, this is bad.
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, if you're bashing someone's head in with a hammer,
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: like you're like.
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: Is that where you hit her on the head?
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like chunks of skull and like you're really doing
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: serious damage to a body.
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: And I don't know, but I would think after the
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: first hit, I would be on the floor and I'd
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: be out.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: Oh, wait, you would pass out?
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: I'd probably be dead. I would think if he hit
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: me in the head. I don't think I'd have the
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: ability to get back up and fight.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: Oh, you mean multiple, like someone that hits you multiple
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: times in the head with a hammer at full force?
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: If it's a direct hit. Yeah. All right.
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: So when 911 arrives, both victims still have a faint pulse.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: Mark was in a back bedroom rocking back and forth.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: He was doing his very like, oh my gosh, is
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: Donna going to be okay? He's probably thinking, oh my.
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: Gosh, is she still alive? Should I have waited longer?
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: Can she talk? What is she saying? I know.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: Donna had been struck at least seven times in the head.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: Both Donna and Roger die soon after. You know what
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: I was thinking when I was watching the... I don't
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: remember if it was the forensic file or the 2020
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: or whatever, but I was thinking there was that period
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: of time before she died, because she did hold on
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: for a little bit, where he probably was thinking, like,
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: I hit her seven times in the head.
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: She's still alive? She pleads the fifth. Don't ask her
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: any questions. I mean, he was probably.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: Get her an attorney.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: Like.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. He was probably... If he knew she was alive,
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: did he know she was alive? Well, they told him
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: that she was still alive. So can you imagine what's
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: going through his head at that time? Yeah. Where he's thinking,
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: I hit her seven times in the head and she's
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: still alive.
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: And that she might say it was him. Right. All right.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: So police pretty much take Mark's word for everything that happens.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: He explains to them that he's on the treadmill. He
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: hears the noise. He comes upstairs. He grabs the gun.
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: He sees... you know, Roger Harrington beating his wife. He
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: shoots him.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: That's it. And they just believe him. Yeah. It's probably
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: when he told him the story of like, well, the
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: hammer's here because my wife been nagging me to hang
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: this thing. And they're like, that's very believable.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: That makes sense. That tracks.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: So when the police are actually in the house, they
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: go to the refrigerator to get a cold drink for
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: Mark because he's in the bedroom, you know, rocking back
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: and forth like, oh my gosh, is Donna alone?
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: What's going on?
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: They go to get him a soda out of the refrigerator.
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: And that's when they see on the refrigerator the notes
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: that she had written out.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: Of the dead man that's not far from the paper. Right.
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: That's in the living room on the floor dead. And
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: there's a whole account of how he had harassed her
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: just a couple days prior to this. Wow. How convenient, right?
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: Police closed the case in about 48 hours. They don't
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: treat it like a crime scene.
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: Well, it's not even a case.
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: They don't treat it like a crime scene. That's not
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: a crime case.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: So there's not a lot of photos. So a coroner's
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: inquest in September also closes it, despite Harrington's parents insisting
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: that their son had never been violent. So I do
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: know Roger Harrington's parents were, they were suspicious of what
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: actually happened because they said, even though he might've had
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: some mental issues, issues they had said that he had
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: never been violent and so they didn't believe that he
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: had driven there you know to to kill donna mark
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: then collects 150 000 and life insurance plus 25 000
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: from the state's crime victims fund and files.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: A lawsuit criminals get tipped on the way out they're
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: like they killed their wives and they're like here you go.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: There's a check for 150 000 over here you go
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: He also files a lawsuit against a transportation company. Right.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: I get it, deep pockets. But I mean, like, what
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: claim does he have against them?
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: Because they're vicariously liable, possibly for their employee who drove
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: her home, who was acting erratic and then came to
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: their house, which they know where she lives.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I know. He'll probably get something because they'll just
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: want to pay him off to make it go away
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: because they did hire someone that I guess they could
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: have done a background check on that he's left with
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: along with people. I get it. I guess I'm just
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: having a hard time taking it because this guy killed
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: his wife and then he's suing everyone for it. Right.
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: But I'm saying take that element out of it. And
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: so the case is closed.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: No, you're right. If the case was with us and.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: the driver was acting like that towards you. And then
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: if the guy actually came and killed you, I would
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: sue Bart.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: Right. Exactly. Because you're going to say you didn't do
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: a background check. You were negligent. You should have looked
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: into his background more. You should have known that he
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: was dangerous.
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: But we know this case of this situation is going
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: to go differently. The detectives Doug Williamson and Charlie Cox
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: grew uneasy as Mark keeps checking whether the case is
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: being revisited and asked for his gun back. Their superiors
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: block reopening the case for three years. Now, remember, there's
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: still a baby, right? Because she adopted a baby named Bailey.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: So he has an infant daughter.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: And he doesn't have a wife anymore. So now Donna's family,
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: because they don't think it's Mark either. They think Mark
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: is a great guy. So everyone just really believes this
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: whole scenario of the intruder and.
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: The- Oh, he's sitting pretty. Yeah.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: Really, right? Like this was like the perfect- Right. Murder
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: at this point.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he even got tipped on the way out.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: Right, he even got $ 150, 000, another $ 25, 000. He's got a lawsuit. So,
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: at Donna's family's suggestion, Mark hires 23-year-old Rebecca Simic as
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: Bailey's nanny. Because, of course, now he needs help. Because
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: he's a nuclear scientist, right? So, he needs help with
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: the baby. So, he hires a very attractive 23-year-old girl.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, don't discriminate.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: I knew you were going to say that.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: What's the matter if she's attractive or not?
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: I'm just saying.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: Very superficial.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: Okay. All right. So he hires a very attractive 23-year-old
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: nanny to help with Bailey.
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: Who said she was attractive?
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: Well, any documentary that I've watched about this, as soon
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: as they show her picture, they're like, and Mark hires
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: a very attractive young nanny named Rebecca Semek.
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: Where did he find her?
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Attractivenannies.com. I don't know.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: Hey, that's a million dollar idea right there.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: Attractivenannies.com.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: I know what you're going to do as soon as
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: we're done with this. You're going to see if that
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: website's taken. All right. So surprise, surprise. Rebecca, the nanny
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: is pregnant within the year.
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: You could also have like a separate section of pool guys.
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: Oh, hotpoolguys.com. Yes. Yes. I would love hotpoolguys.com. Within a year, Rebecca,
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: the attractive nanny is now pregnant.
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: With his baby?
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: Yes, with his baby.
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: So we know that he was not... He's fertile.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: And so is she. Everyone's fertile.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: Right, but the first time around, they couldn't have kids.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: Oh, you're saying it wasn't him. It was definitely his
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: first wife, Donna, was the one with the issues.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: Right. With the challenges, yeah. Yes.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: Rebecca is pregnant within the year, and the two elope
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: in Hawaii just 14 months after Donna's death. Mark converts
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: from Judaism so that they can have a Christian household.
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: He sells the house that Donna and Roger were both
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: murdered in and moves his family to a large farmhouse.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: They kept living there?
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: For a little bit.
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: That's weird.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: Would you move immediately?
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: I don't know what I'd do, but I'd think I
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: would move.
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: It'd be weird.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: Well, I think so, too. I couldn't live in a
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: house where someone had been murdered.
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: But then again, it would be weird to kill your
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: wife with a hammer also. So apparently he's okay with it. Right.
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: Mark and Rebecca eventually have three more children together.
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: Look at them.
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: They get married. They have three children together. And then
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: they also have Bailey, the adopted daughter. So he has
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: four kids that Rebecca is taking care of. Early 1999,
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: Rebecca takes Mark to the ER. This is the same
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: hospital where Donna used to work. And they run into
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: Deanne Schultz. Now, you need to remember that name.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: Deanne Schultz. Yes.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: She seems visibly upset to see Mark. Afterward, Mark tells
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: Rebecca that they may not have heard the last of
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: Deanne Schultz. Then we get to February of 1999. Deanne
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: was also.
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: That were four years later, right? Yes.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: Deanne, well, like three years later, after he marries.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: So he marries in- Well, the murder was in 95.
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: He gets married in 96.
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: Right. And now we're in 99.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: Now we're in 99. Deanne used to be best friends
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: with Donna. They worked together at the hospital. So that's important.
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: They were best friends, worked together. Now in February of 1999,
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: Deanne goes to the police and tells them, that she
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: and Mark had been having an affair lasting about a
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: month long, and it led up to Donna's murder. Which,
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: by the way, is very interesting because they closed the
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: case quickly because they just felt as if it was
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: just a loving husband who was deemed a hero, who
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: was like, you know, grabbed his gun and was trying to,
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: you know, kill.
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: The perpetrator of this crime. So her saying they had
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: an affair can lean towards the.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: That things weren't so great between them, right?
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: That's all it is, yeah.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: Well, she also claims, when she went to the police,
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: she not only told them that they had an affair,
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: but she also claims that Mark said many things such as,
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: I just need to get rid of Donna. How can
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: I get rid of Donna?
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: And it took her four years to get rid of Donna?
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: come out with that?
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: You know what?
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: I wondered that. Some best friend she is.
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: Well, you know what? I thought about that too, because
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: I thought, why didn't she come forward right in the
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: beginning when Donna's first murdered? But I also thought maybe
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: she's scared of Mark too. Because if you think about it,
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: If she knows that he had, if she thinks and
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: she's suspicious that he's the one that had Donna, that
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: he hit her seven times in the head with a
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: hammer and shot the guy.
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: And shot the guy.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: That's not someone that I would want to make mad.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: Deanne also had attempted suicide several times after Donna's murder.
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: She also felt jilted when Mark ended the affair and
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: married his nanny instead.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: Ended the affair and married his nanny instead. Yeah. That
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: means they were still sleeping around together. Right. And she was,
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: they had a longtime relationship.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: She claims they were having an affair in the month
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: before Donna died. But remember, after Donna died, he hired
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: the nanny quickly after that.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: Oh, it was a quick after.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: And then she got pregnant pretty soon after that. And
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: then they got married pretty soon. So I'm sure she felt, one,
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: upset that her best friend was dead. And she got dumped, right?
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: She didn't get killed.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: All right, so police reinvestigate. Detectives ask why there was
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: no forced entry, why Roger Harrington brought his coffee and
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: cigarettes inside, and why he'd used the winger's hammer when
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: he had a tire iron and a knife in his car.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: So they did, now that they're reopening this case, they
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: do start to investigate finally. He had a tire iron
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: and a knife in his car.
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: He had a weapon that he could have used just
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: the same as a hammer.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: Right, but he didn't bring them into the house. So
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: the question is, if he was there to kill her,
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: That was his intent. Why is he walking in the
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: house with cigarettes and a coffee mug?
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: Then the three Polaroids turn up among evidence from Mark's
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: own lawsuit against the shuttle company. I guess there were
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: only like three photos of the crime scene that someone
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: had taken with a Polaroid. Because remember, they didn't really
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: investigate it as a crime at all. So I think
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: there were just three Polaroid photos. That were probably taken
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: when the insurance company was investigating. Because remember, he files
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: a claim, and the insurance company is probably doing their
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: own investigation. They have some photos of the crime scene.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: So now the police are actually looking at these photos
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: as to what actually occurred that day.
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: Not much of an investigation.
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: The body positions contradict his story, and blood spatter experts agree.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: So then they were doing blood spatter analysis.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: It's funny when you investigate a death. you might actually
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: come up with something other than what people told you.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: Well, then they start to, well, they, he claims that,
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: I guess he claims that when he shot Roger Harrington,
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: he like fell backwards when he shot him. But then
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: when they look at the photos, he wasn't backwards. And
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: so all these things that he was saying about what
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: happened actually contradict the photos that they have, but they
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: never treated it like a crime scene. So they never
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: investigated or probably even looked at the photos, you know? Also,
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: which I didn't mention earlier, but they ended up finding
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: a note among Roger Harrington's things where he had written
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: down Mark Winger's name and his address and his phone number.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: So basically, you can come to the conclusion that Mark
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: Winger took this situation with the driver and Like that
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: was a huge opportunity for him.
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: Who had the paper with Mark Winger's name on it?
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: Roger Harrington. The guy who showed up that day, the driver.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: When they went back and reinvestigated, they found among his
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: things a piece of paper with Mark Winger's name written
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: on it.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: His killer's name on it.
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: And his address and phone number. Yeah. So basically, you
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: can conclude that this.
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: Guy, Mark Winger, used... Had some contact with Mark Winger.
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: And asked him to come over to his house.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: And don't forget your cigarettes and coffee.
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: Right, but I'll have a hammer for you.
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there'll be a hammer on the table.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: I assume he came to the door and knocked. And
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: I assume that Mark Winger let him in. And then
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: probably when he was not looking, he's got coffee and
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: cigarettes and he's probably just, you know.
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: Waiting to have a conversation. This sounds dumb, but I
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: was picturing he was in the basement. He didn't even
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: have to be in the basement. No, that was his story, right?
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: He probably doesn't even work out.
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: No.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: He's probably just a phony.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: He probably doesn't even have a treadmill.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: Right. Oh, so you think he was, he brought Winger,
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: he brought Harrington inside the house.
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: Yes. That's what I think.
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: And then he shoot, in some fashion, he shoots and
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: kills him.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: And then the wife comes in.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: And she's like, what happened? And then he beats her
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: with a hammer.
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: And he says, I'm going to hang this picture. Come
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: stand over here.
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: Give me the hammer.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: Hold this picture for me. Yeah. Wow.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: Because I feel like.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: That's gruesome.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: I think he'd have to shoot Harrington first, which would
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: startle Donna. And then she'd probably rush into the room.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: And then as soon as she rushed into the room,
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: I assume he probably just attacked her.
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: Because if he beat her first and she's laying on
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: the floor, Harrington would have run away.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: He would have reacted some way.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: Right. But he comes in clueless and he's got coffee
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: and cigarettes.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: So that's why I assume he was probably shot first.
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: Oh, I take clues. Unaware. He was unaware.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: He was unaware.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: All right, so after they now look at these photos
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: and they see that the body positions are contradictory to
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: the story, and now they start doing blood splatter analysis,
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: now they realize that this is a actual crime scene
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: that was never investigated.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: It's funny when you investigate something, huh?
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: Right? So then on August 23rd of 2001, Mark Winger
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: is indicted for both murders.
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: What year? What year again?
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: This is 2001. Mark Winger.
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: So six years he had on the run. Yeah.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: He is indicted for both murders. Rebecca, who is the
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: new wife, the nanny, the nanny wife, remembers getting the
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: call about his arrest while she was at McDonald's Playland
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: with her four kids. His childhood friend, Jeffrey Gelman, also
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: refuses to post his $ 1 million bail. That's interesting. You
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: have to remember that guy's name. So his wife, his
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: current wife, the nanny wife, finds out he's been arrested.
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: He's in jail. Right. And then he asked his best friend,
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: Jeffrey Gelman, to post bail for him. And he says, no,
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: he refuses.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: That's interesting. Yeah. If your best friend came to you.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and wanted bail.
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: And said, hey, I'm being convicted of, or I'm being
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: charged with killing my spouse. Mm-hmm. Can you bail me out?
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: What would you do?
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: Well, I would say no. I don't want to get
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: involved in anyone's criminal investigation, period.
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: So you would say no?
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: I would say no.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: So his friend says no. But it's important to remember
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: that because it will come up again.
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: All right, so then we get to May of 2002.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: This is the trial. A visibly shaken Deanne Schultz, remember,
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: this is the woman he was having an affair with,
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: testifies against Mark under a grant of immunity. Paramedics testified
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: during the trial that they found Donna face down, but
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: that contradicted Mark's version of events.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: All right, he described her in a different position than
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: when she was found.
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: Right, and Mark never takes the stand in his own defense.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: So Mark is sentenced to life without parole. Detective Charlie
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: Cox later said he was ashamed of the original investigation
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: and of dragging Harrington's name through hell. Yeah, because that
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: poor guy that got murdered that day, he was branded
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: a murderer.
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: And all he did was show up with some coffee
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: and cigarettes and thought he was probably.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: Having a meeting. He was willing to work it out.
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: Right. Then we go to 2002 to present day. An
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: Illinois court rejects Mark's appeal and the Illinois Supreme Court
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: declines to hear it. He begins claiming that paramedics are
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: the ones who moved Harrington's body to explain the photos.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: He also requests post-conviction DNA testing of blood on Harrington's clothing.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: The request is denied. And also that same year, this
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: is 2005, at Pontiac Correctional Center, he approaches inmate Terry Hubbell,
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: about getting rid of Deanne Schultz and Jeffrey Gelman. Remember,
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: Jeffrey Gelman is his friend who refused to post bail
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: for him. He tries to hire a hitman.
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: He wants to kill the woman he slept with and
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: the one that wouldn't bail him out.
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: He wants to kill the woman who testified against him.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: And testified against him, that's right.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: And kill his best friend who didn't bail him out, yeah.
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: And so he tries to hire a hitman while he's
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: in prison.
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: Because your cellmates are always trustworthy.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: He actually writes out like a 17-page handwritten plan of
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: how to take them out.
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah? Yeah.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: And then they, and they find it.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: 17 pages. What did he write?
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: I don't know. He had like all these details about like,
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: first we'll take out Deanne and then use the money
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: from that to do, I don't remember, but it was
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: like a complex plan.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: His first plan was hammer and gun. Yeah. And call Harrington.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: Oh, it's 19 pages. I'm sorry. I said it was
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: 17 pages. It's 19 pages. Mark plans to kidnap Gelman
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: and extort money by threatening his family, then use that
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: money to pay a hitman who will force Deanne Schultz
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: to recant her statements and then kill her and then
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: have Gelman's family killed too. The inmate, Terry Hubbell, turns
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: the letter in and wears a wire in exchange for
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: a transfer. Mark talks for an hour on tape.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: Transfer, do you get a nicer sell?
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's like, can I just get a little upgrade?
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: Can I get a corner cell? Yeah.
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: Just with a view. It's interesting that they needed more
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: evidence besides the 19-page letter. They were like, look, we
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: need you to also wear a wire and get him
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: to admit it.
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: His plan is only 19 pages. We need more.
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: We need more information. So will you wear a wire
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: and get him to talk?
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: We'll get you the corner cell. Trust us.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: So then between 2006 and 2007, Mark is indicted and
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: convicted of solicitation of murder. He receives 34 more years
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: in prison. He already has a life sentence with no parole.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: Then he gets another 35 years on top of that.
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: Just in case somehow you survive. Right. Yeah, you have
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: nine lives.
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: Mark calls in... it all just fantasies. And the judge
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: notes that he's been diagnosed in prison with antisocial personality disorder.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: You know, when he was saying that, oh, you know,
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: that 19-page, you know, letter I wrote with all the
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: details of how I'm going to take all these people out,
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: that's just a fantasy. It reminds me of the Utah case.
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: Remember the woman who wrote the child's book about grief
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: after she poisoned her husband?
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Rich. Yeah. Was that her name?
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And then do you remember when she was in prison,
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: she wrote a letter to her family. They called it
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: the walk the dog letter.
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Where she tells her brother. What did she claim
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: it was?
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: Like it was a fantasy. Like it was just a
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: fiction letter that she was writing.
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: I gotta do something to pass the time here in jail.
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: Right. So she, remember she wrote out about telling her
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: brother like what to say to the police. Yeah.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: Oj did that he wrote a letter he no he
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: wrote a book well yeah he wrote a book called
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: if i did it and it was if i did
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: it this is how i would have done it something
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: like that but it was it never got released it
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: was about to be released and i remember i found
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: it on the internet it was kind of creepy i
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: read some of it it was kind of creepy so
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: the idea was he was confessing but it was only
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: like you know fiction anyway it never got released Why not?
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: Why did they at the end?
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: Because the publishing company got a lot of backlash. He's
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: a murderer.
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: Maybe this isn't a good idea.
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: Too soon.
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: All right. I just wanted to talk a little bit
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: because as I was researching this Mark Winger case and
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: this whole intruder scenario. So Mark Winger was an opportunist, right?
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: Because I bet as soon as Donna came home from
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: that trip where she had had the driver and she
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: starts telling her husband about how he was acting and
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: he was erratic and he was volatile and he scared her.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: I bet in Mark's mind, I bet a switch just
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: flipped where he was going to take the opportunity to
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: use that for this intruder scenario. It's interesting because it's
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: actually like a theme because I was thinking there's other cases.
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: We just did the case of Thomas Randolph. This was
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: like last week. Randolph was the one who called 911
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: and said Michael Miller had shot his wife, Sharon. And
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: then he subsequently shot Miller. Remember, he's the one that
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: walked in. And he did that whole reenactment for the police.
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: He was like, this guy was a handyman or something.
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: He came over to the house to rob us. I
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: heard some noises. Remember, he was the one that was
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: sitting in the car and listening to the song. And
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: he told her to go ahead and go in the house.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: Then he hears the gunshots. He comes in. He gets
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: a gun. He shoots the intruder.
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: I want to finish listening to this song.
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's like, I got to finish this song.
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: Said no guy ever when they got to the house. Right.
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: Then there was Brendan Banfield. Do you remember this? This
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: was the guy who was having the affair with the
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: Brazilian au pair.
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: Remember? And then they listed, like they made the Craigslist.
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: She was in on it, right?
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And they made the Craigslist listing. Oh, yeah.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: They recruited some guy to have sex with her.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: Only to really want to kill him. Right. And kill her.
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: For like a rape fantasy. He shows up thinking that
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: he's just playing out this like sexual fantasy role and
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: he shoots him. That was like the whole intruder thing.
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: To all the guys out there, do not reply to
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: the request for a rape fantasy. Right. It's not a
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: good outcome.
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: And then Caleb Flynn, that's another one. He was the
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: former music pastor and American Idol contestant. He called 911
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: around 2.30 a.m. reporting that an intruder had broken in
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: and shot his wife, Ashley. And there was no evidence
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: of any intruder. And he was just recently convicted of
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: aggravated murder and sentenced to life without parole. So I'm
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: just saying, guys.
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: Be more creative.
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: The intruder scenario, it's like played out.
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: I don't know. It kind of works for Winger though.
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: It did for a while.
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: Until Deanne got a conscience. Deanne spoke up. Had he
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: never slept with her.
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: If he didn't have that affair.
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: He would have been.
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: Because then she wouldn't have spoken up no matter what.
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: Well, she's the only reason that he was.
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: Right. But I'm saying had he never slept with her,
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: she couldn't have spoken up. Exactly. And that would have
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: been the end of it. And how many guys get
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: away with stuff like this?
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: I know. It makes me want to like. Is there
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: any cases out there that are suspicious that there was
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: an intruder involved?
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I know we need to go through all the
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: cold cases. And the final one where they married the
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: nanny after the wife was dead.
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: And there's an intruder.
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: And we just look into it.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: Another thing we could do is you could start the nannysattractive.com.
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: And then any guys that apply to it look into
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: their marriage. Yes. And then you could be like, do
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: you also want to up your insurance policy? And then
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: that's another red flag. Oh, you know what, though? And
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: then you can nail them.
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: You know how we were talking about the insurance policies,
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: and we were talking about how there should be some
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: kind of notification? Well, I actually had a woman that
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: works in insurance send me a DM on Instagram, and
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: she was saying that it is standardized, that that person
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: has to be notified. And then I thought, well, how
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: are all these criminals doing it? They're either forging their
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: name or something.
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: Or they're killed before the notification goes out.
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: I guess.
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: Then it comes in the mail. Yeah. It's like snail
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: mail and it comes in like weeks later. Right. Okay.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: So I guess what we're saying is.
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: If you did not authorize this, please call 1-800- Like
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: when you get.
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: The chase notifications. If you did not make this purchase,
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: that's what I'm saying. Okay. So if that is part
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: of their standard- application for life insurance, they need to
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: do a better job.
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: More real time updates.
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: Like get with Chase Bank.
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: I get notifications anytime there's something suspicious on my account.
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: I get a text. That's what they need to do
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: with insurance policies. You need to get a text that says,
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: did you authorize this person to take out a million
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: dollar insurance policy on you? If yes, ignore. If no,
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: click here.
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: Exactly.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: Thanks guys for listening to Till Death Do Us Part.
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: We appreciate it. If you have any cases that would
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: fit our Till Death Do Us Part episodes, we would
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: love to hear about it. So please find me on
• 35:32
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• 35:35
  Speaker 1: be sure to follow Legally Brunette wherever you listen to
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: podcasts and be sure to tell your friends and family
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: about Legally Brunette. We appreciate you. Thanks so much.