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Championing Change: Thea Bardot on Transforming Recruitment and Trans Advocacy · Work It Like A Mum

0:01
Elizabeth Willetts: Hey, I'm Elizabeth Willits and I'm obsessed with helping as many women as possible achieve their boldest dreams after kids and helping you to navigate this messy and magical season of life.
0:14
Elizabeth Willetts: I'm a working mom with over 17 years of recruitment experience and I'm the founder of the Investing in Women job board and community.
0:22
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0:29
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0:57
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1:07
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1:10
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1:17
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1:52
Elizabeth Willetts: Now back to the show.
1:54
Elizabeth Willetts: Hello and welcome to this week's episode of the Work it Like A Mum podcast, where I am interviewing Thea Bardot.
2:01
Elizabeth Willetts: I'm gonna let the lady herself introduce herself and her business.
2:06
Elizabeth Willetts: So over to you, Thea.
2:08
Thea Bardot: Thank you so much for having me on Of the Coolest podcast in recruitment.
2:13
Thea Bardot: Like I say, as you said, my name is Thea Bardot.
2:16
Thea Bardot: My pronouns are they or she, which let's start off with some education.
2:21
Thea Bardot: You can use those pronouns interchangeably.
2:25
Thea Bardot: They is fine, she is fine.
2:27
Thea Bardot: They is my preferred.
2:28
Thea Bardot: I am a trans, non-binary or DHD founder that had never worked in recruitment before setting up Lightning Travel Recruitment and, yeah, all about making change and focusing on people in a people industry that we should be doing from the start, absolutely yeah, that's me.
2:50
Thea Bardot: I'm not going to list off accolades and awards and everything because I feel like it always sounds you have such a good career.
2:56
Elizabeth Willetts: I mean, I'm literally got your LinkedIn profile behind the zoom that we're chatting on.
2:59
Elizabeth Willetts: And, yeah, because you were in what private travel?
3:03
Elizabeth Willetts: What were you doing before you moved into recruitment?
3:06
Thea Bardot: um, not focusing on myself, my well-being and my mental health, but that's a side story, okay do you know what this is?
3:17
Elizabeth Willetts: you know this is completely digressing.
3:18
Elizabeth Willetts: Have you seen that?
3:19
Elizabeth Willetts: Buying london on netflix?
3:22
Thea Bardot: I watched the first 30 minutes and and when we're not doing it anymore.
3:26
Elizabeth Willetts: I watched it and then I went to look my daughter's like what were you watching last night in this program with a very rich?
3:30
Elizabeth Willetts: And she's like why are you watching us?
3:32
Elizabeth Willetts: Like and she goes how did you feel after you watched it?
3:34
Elizabeth Willetts: I'm just basically questioned all my life choices.
3:36
Elizabeth Willetts: Sorry, I digress.
3:40
Thea Bardot: That is a really good kind of insight into what it's like in the luxury travel market.
3:44
Thea Bardot: I'm not gonna lie, but yeah I what it's like in the luxury travel market.
3:45
Thea Bardot: I'm not going to lie, but yeah, I started off my career working in luxury travel and hospitality events for a startup in a very much a startup environment.
3:56
Thea Bardot: When I started, there was like seven people in the company.
3:59
Thea Bardot: When I left, there were 17 people in the company.
4:02
Thea Bardot: I had an amazing time.
4:03
Thea Bardot: I got to travel around the world.
4:04
Thea Bardot: When I left, there were 70 people in the company.
4:06
Thea Bardot: I had an amazing time.
4:06
Thea Bardot: I got to travel around the world, uh, got to stay in some boozy ass hotels, uh, that I could never afford.
4:09
Thea Bardot: But I gave everything for someone else's business and I lost myself in the process.
4:16
Thea Bardot: Um, at the time I was male, um, I identified as a gay man and I am from a council estate in the southeast London and I just tried my damnedest to fit into that world and lost myself along the process.
4:32
Thea Bardot: And when I left that business it was actually because I had lots of health issues that were all caused by stress and not being myself and my body became physical in my body and run out of sickness leave and when, okay, cool, I put six years into this company and I've got absolutely nothing to show for it.
4:55
Thea Bardot: So, yeah, that's why I ended up setting up Lightning, because not only did I feel when I was job searching that I couldn't find a recruitment agency that represented me and who I was, but I'd also used our competitors during my time at that company and just went.
5:15
Thea Bardot: This can't be it Like.
5:17
Thea Bardot: This is tragic.
5:19
Thea Bardot: These people don't give an essay to IT about who they're putting in front of me.
5:23
Thea Bardot: They're aggressive, they're not getting the brief, they're not value adding.
5:27
Thea Bardot: That's not what luxury travel hospitality is.
5:30
Thea Bardot: It's about getting clients.
5:31
Thea Bardot: My touch points about ed and I, like I was so proud of the team that I built by myself from a headhunting on linkedin at that company.
5:41
Thea Bardot: Six years later, they are the only team that are still in that business and they were and are diverse af and without knowing it.
5:51
Thea Bardot: That was what I was really passionate about.
5:53
Thea Bardot: I'm a natural south person so, yeah, I added all those things together and when I can make a real change in an industry that needs it and provide representation to people that don't have representation in the traditional recruitment side of things yeah and travel as an industry is archaic, yeah what do you mean by that?
6:13
Thea Bardot: very white.
6:13
Thea Bardot: It's very middle class.
6:15
Thea Bardot: It's very cis male at the top of it.
6:18
Thea Bardot: I was gonna say it's in the luxury travel yeah yeah, it's getting better, for sure, but at the core of it, if you, if you pull away all of the champagne lunches and all of the stuff that they throw at people to keep them in companies is pretty toxic as an industry and just the way it's set up.
6:39
Thea Bardot: It's very commission-based.
6:40
Thea Bardot: It's it's not focused on adni there's a big asterisk here because there are some companies that are incredible on it but in general, that's where it's at and I set up the company thinking I could make a lot of change.
6:53
Thea Bardot: Both change to the people, the way people are treated in recruitment processes.
6:59
Thea Bardot: I feel like there wasn't a face to speak to and definitely not safe spaces at all.
7:05
Thea Bardot: And I also felt that there was change to be made internally in companies, even if you don't work for them, by having open conversations, and I went about it so wrong when I was younger.
7:17
Thea Bardot: My age started with a two.
7:19
Thea Bardot: Yeah and I said there there was more of an ego than I realized and I was angry.
7:34
Thea Bardot: I was really angry.
7:36
Thea Bardot: I was angry at the system, I was angry at my situation, I was just angry and I went.
7:42
Thea Bardot: The first brand that I built.
7:43
Thea Bardot: It was like toxic pink, like hot pink.
7:47
Elizabeth Willetts: So was this not like, were you called something else?
7:50
Thea Bardot: No, it was still called like no.
7:51
Elizabeth Willetts: All right, but it was still the brand name.
7:52
Elizabeth Willetts: It was not.
7:54
Thea Bardot: It was not the like gorgeous brand you see before you that I spent years perfecting.
7:58
Thea Bardot: It was like my brand consultant called it a fuck you brand and we still are that brand.
8:04
Thea Bardot: But this, this, this literally was like it was aggressively f you um and I cussed out people in the industry.
8:14
Thea Bardot: I went in calling like really being aggressive with what the problems were and expecting people to be like yeah, you're right, you're so right.
8:23
Thea Bardot: It's not how the world works.
8:25
Thea Bardot: Um so quickly did a rebrand and changed my tact and how have you changed it?
9:24
Elizabeth Willetts: now, then, am I always interesting to know how people's, how they build their businesses and how the businesses evolve it's so.
9:30
Thea Bardot: It evolved by making mistakes and I'm very much a person that I will hold my hands up if I make mistakes.
9:34
Thea Bardot: Every day is a learning that I will hold my hands up if I make mistakes.
9:36
Thea Bardot: Every day is a learning day.
9:37
Thea Bardot: I don't know everything.
9:38
Thea Bardot: I just took a step back and went like how are you gonna make the most change?
9:42
Thea Bardot: And like, create the most representation?
9:46
Thea Bardot: And it's actually just being yourself, being authentic, creating that safe space and having conversations once you've earned people's trust yeah you just can't go in all guns blazing because people are going to make you the bad person.
10:01
Thea Bardot: It's actually where it's.
10:02
Thea Bardot: I think it's quite beautiful with our business is the second I stopped being angry at other people and the second I stopped trying to just cuss out.
10:13
Thea Bardot: What I can see now and it still hasn't changed and stepped into my power is when I began my gender journey and it's when business started going very much in an upward trajectory and my personal journey as I now identify as trans, non-binary or trans femme um.
10:34
Thea Bardot: That has evolved alongside lightning's brand, which is really cool and, yeah, now I hope anyway our brand is seen as a brand that we're still an fu brand, but we really care.
10:47
Thea Bardot: We really really care and the conversations that we spark with our content are making change in an industry, the value that we add to candidates.
10:56
Thea Bardot: But it's not just about, like getting people a job at the end of the day.
11:00
Thea Bardot: It's about making sure they feel seen, they feel heard, making sure it's a safe space.
11:05
Thea Bardot: We're giving them an actual time, actual time, and they're not just like a number in a crm um and it's the same.
11:13
Thea Bardot: It's the same with our clients, like we will always give real talk to our clients and value add what we can.
11:17
Thea Bardot: So yeah, I think that answers your question oh my gosh.
11:20
Elizabeth Willetts: Yeah, and you started it at such an interesting time because you started it September 2019 and we all know what happened in early 2020.
11:30
Elizabeth Willetts: How I mean, what a shot.
11:33
Elizabeth Willetts: Because you obviously in travel, which is the first industry to you, know it was.
11:39
Elizabeth Willetts: I remember, you know, in the February, people probably starting to cancel holidays and therefore that travel recruitment would have been impacted.
11:46
Elizabeth Willetts: How did you survive, covid?
11:48
Thea Bardot: So this is like I hit.
11:51
Thea Bardot: Let me start this again.
11:53
Thea Bardot: A COVID was awful for everyone.
11:56
Thea Bardot: It was a really bad time.
11:57
Thea Bardot: If I'm honest, it was probably the best thing that could have happened to our business.
12:00
Thea Bardot: It was just me, no overheads.
12:04
Thea Bardot: I decided I was going to set this business up in August.
12:07
Thea Bardot: I wrote the website myself, bookend to bookend, one evening.
12:13
Thea Bardot: I then launched by snail mail.
12:15
Thea Bardot: I had like a lightning bolt.
12:18
Thea Bardot: I printed out and manually wrote like I had my business card.
12:22
Thea Bardot: It just said lightning is coming, sent it out to 100 clients through their office addresses and we got our first client through there, made one placement before the panini hit and then, once it did hit, it was like that I used the money that we had from that placement to do the rebound and our capacitors a lot of them went down because obviously they had huge overheads and staff and it was an awful time, like I feel so genuinely awful, like bad for those companies.
12:53
Thea Bardot: But what I then did was create what we now call our lightning lounge and it was and still is one-to-one video chats in the safe spaces to talk about anything from personal struggles to HR, to situations they have going on in their workplaces, advice to get into the industry, advice to get out of the industry, and that was born out of, obviously, a lot of HR.
13:16
Thea Bardot: What unfurlough managers were, get couldn't do anything in organizations and nobody really had any support.
13:25
Thea Bardot: So we really wanted to position ourselves, and I say we, it was me, it was me.
13:29
Elizabeth Willetts: I know I've used the we a lot.
13:31
Elizabeth Willetts: Actually, there's no way we was me.
13:34
Thea Bardot: We was me, um, but we wanted to position ourselves as the people that really give a shit, and we wanted to see that be the change we wanted to see.
13:44
Thea Bardot: And the conversations I had during the pandemic was I'll always remember them that I've got bonds with people that I've never met in real life, but we just had a few of these sessions and they're now in different companies and they've given us business or we're always commenting towards LinkedIn, and that's when I really built that LinkedIn community as well.
14:04
Elizabeth Willetts: Yeah, because you're really massive on LinkedIn.
14:06
Elizabeth Willetts: I love all your posts.
14:08
Thea Bardot: Thank you.
14:08
Thea Bardot: Thank you.
14:09
Thea Bardot: It's honestly LinkedIn.
14:11
Thea Bardot: People are so scared of it Like people don't know where they start.
14:14
Thea Bardot: If anyone listens to this podcast and you take one thing away from this podcast don't be afraid of LinkedIn.
14:19
Thea Bardot: It will be the best thing, like you've ever done.
14:22
Thea Bardot: It's just jumping into it and you have got more followers than I have, and rightly so, because your content's amazing and LinkedIn is a community at the end, I think so.
14:32
Elizabeth Willetts: Do you know?
14:32
Elizabeth Willetts: I've never had that many negative comments, really, on like considering how many posts I've done.
14:37
Elizabeth Willetts: I mean, you don't go grimacing, I was just saying your post the other day was that you and the dog, wasn't it?
14:43
Thea Bardot: it's me and the dog, and then some political views and then, uh, you don't see the dms.
14:49
Thea Bardot: All right, yeah, I mean, linkedin's a fun place.
14:52
Thea Bardot: It it's a.
14:54
Thea Bardot: It's the safest platform for the trans community.
14:56
Thea Bardot: Put it that way really yeah it's one where, like, let's sidetrack and talk about employer brand.
15:03
Thea Bardot: So when people are searching for jobs, employers are just putting on these linkedin easy, easy apply buttons.
15:10
Thea Bardot: They're not showcasing um salaries, it's and, as we know, salary secrecy equals pay inequity, and pay inequity always affects the most marginalized communities that are out there.
15:21
Thea Bardot: Good one plus on that, you've got these brands that nobody knows what they stand for anymore and more and more.
15:27
Thea Bardot: You've got job seekers that are wanting authenticity, they're wanting representation, they're wanting to know what people's values are.
15:33
Thea Bardot: And you've got ceos and senior leadership teams that just have zero presence online anywhere and candidates are like, no, that's just not good enough anymore.
15:44
Thea Bardot: And the biggest thing that I say to clients in the moment is like you can't expect people to move sideways to your company when they don't know who the F you are.
15:52
Thea Bardot: They don't know who the F the brand is other than the shiny website and the clients you work with, and they don't know what you stand for.
15:59
Thea Bardot: And LinkedIn is that perfect place where it really doesn't take much and, to be honest, you can just get a marketing manager to do it for you if you really wanted to like just have an opinion, just stand for something like saying nothing is literally complicit in so many issues in recruitment, travel and just being just being a human being right now with what's going on in the world.
16:25
Elizabeth Willetts: And do you think people are frightened of being cancelled if they say something that?
16:29
Thea Bardot: Absolutely they are, but you just need to get over it.
16:32
Thea Bardot: Sorry, I'm swearing a lot.
16:33
Thea Bardot: You just need to get over yourself a little bit.
16:35
Thea Bardot: Yeah, um, like the only thing worse than saying something and someone calling you out on what you've said and learning from it and moving on is not saying something and not using your voice.
16:48
Thea Bardot: And it's just that it's.
16:51
Thea Bardot: As human beings we've inherently scared of failure and scared of not fitting in and scared of saying the wrong thing, and especially more with cancel culture, but I'm trying to instill more into people.
17:02
Thea Bardot: You don't need to have a different opinion to everyone.
17:05
Thea Bardot: You don't need to rock the boat like let's go back to where I started this conversation.
17:09
Thea Bardot: I went in too hard.
17:11
Thea Bardot: Rock the boat still here.
17:13
Thea Bardot: Yeah, nothing happened.
18:21
Thea Bardot: It takes time, for sure, but building your own personal brand is probably one of the best things as a job seeker you can do.
18:29
Thea Bardot: But also from an employer brand perspective.
18:33
Thea Bardot: To anyone that doesn't know what an employer brand is, employer brand is, in short, what candidates think of your brand as a place to work yeah and people.
18:45
Elizabeth Willetts: I think employees forget that.
18:46
Elizabeth Willetts: I get that and I'm like got a lot of small companies and you know I love small companies.
18:50
Elizabeth Willetts: I'm a small company, but then they just expect people to want to work for them.
18:55
Elizabeth Willetts: I'm like really the only companies that people just want to work for like that, probably like Apple, you know.
19:00
Elizabeth Willetts: I'm not even them anymore but you know, I think they don't they?
19:06
Elizabeth Willetts: Some of them view it as a privilege to work for them.
19:08
Thea Bardot: Actually, I think everyone's at different points in their lives do what's right for you.
19:12
Thea Bardot: I always just say to people look, if a location of a job is, you're non-negotiable that's not negotiable.
19:20
Thea Bardot: If a salary is, you're non-negotiable, that's not negotiable.
19:23
Thea Bardot: But sometimes you can't have both and it's looking at what you're willing to negotiate on and what you're not willing to negotiate on.
19:28
Thea Bardot: And I say this to clients and candidates and I would give this advice to myself.
19:32
Thea Bardot: Unfortunately, we do not live in a world where you can have everything you want.
19:36
Thea Bardot: Yeah, um, in recruitment in general right now, like I got an email side to side, though, I got an email from a debt collection agency yesterday because we're using a debt collection agency to get some debts that were raised.
19:47
Thea Bardot: I got an email from this debt collection agency saying we've seen an upturn of recruitment companies going bust, going out of business.
19:56
Thea Bardot: Um, I think this is like a 15 increase year on year on this, like common collector debts to the deck.
20:05
Thea Bardot: That is how bad the recruitment sector is right now, and the reason it is is because you've got a game of chicken between clients and candidates and neither are budging right now on these non-negotiables, neither are budging and what candidates want and what clients are willing to give or think they should be giving to candidates are two.
20:27
Thea Bardot: The gap is just getting wider and wider and wider and wider.
20:30
Thea Bardot: Apart, it's genuinely, like we said before this call.
20:34
Thea Bardot: The recruitment industry does this like a roller coaster at all times, but more so than normal.
20:39
Thea Bardot: There is just a complete lack of understanding from candidates and clients as to what they should be giving and what they're able to get.
20:46
Thea Bardot: At the minute and I think ED&I roles, for example, have people have been very redundant left, right and center from companies because companies aren't seeing the value in having an expert and inclusive workforce.
21:00
Elizabeth Willetts: That's interesting, you know, because I actually I would be really interested to get your take because I did a workshop and, I'll be honest, I couldn't answer this question and then I was like, oh gosh, this is bad, but I'm going to be interested to get your take.
21:09
Elizabeth Willetts: So it was for a company that wants to become more diverse and inclusive.
21:13
Elizabeth Willetts: So I ran a workshop a few weeks ago and I guess I love that they want to do that, by the way, great yeah, um, and I guess examples of what companies, some of the companies, are doing, you know, in terms of like the recruitment process and how they're assessing their performance and holding people accountable, etc.
21:31
Elizabeth Willetts: And then the question that the client asked me was what is the commercial, has been the commercial return of these initiatives for these particular companies?
21:41
Elizabeth Willetts: I mean, I couldn't answer that, you know.
21:43
Elizabeth Willetts: I could give the general.
21:44
Elizabeth Willetts: Oh yeah, you know, companies are more diverse, workforces are more profitable, you know that.
21:49
Thea Bardot: But actually for these specifics, it's really interesting because commercial numbers are that there are, that you can just google it, they're there, they're there it it backs up.
21:59
Elizabeth Willetts: I think it all just goes back to being the right thing to do yeah, I know and I was like, but then it's like, how do you sell that then to numbers people, maybe accountants or whatever any.
22:12
Thea Bardot: Anyone who works full-time in ED&I will have a deck that has those figures in them.
22:16
Thea Bardot: Now there will have been a you got hold on.
22:18
Thea Bardot: I don't have those figures to to mind.
22:21
Thea Bardot: Um, ed&i is my side hustle, but yeah, the commercial side of things to ed and I, it's just there, it's just it just I probably need to do my hand, hold my hand.
22:31
Elizabeth Willetts: I'm saying, yeah, I probably should do more research, but I just thought that's interesting, isn't that?
22:35
Elizabeth Willetts: That's probably the thing that needs to be pushed, isn't it, to certain business is, is that that commercial commercial for doing the right thing?
22:44
Thea Bardot: yeah, it's a really trickle.
22:45
Thea Bardot: Like I love quality qualitative never said that word data over quantitative all the time, but obviously, like you said, it's the people at the top are all about numbers and bottom lines and that's not what you do and it is so it kind of is a big juxtaposition in itself and obviously you can only really give those numbers for big corporate accounts.
23:05
Thea Bardot: They're not gonna.
23:06
Thea Bardot: If it's a small business that wants to make change, that change you're gonna have to start small and that the change you can make, as you will know, is about just making people feel safe and making the workforce as inclusive as possible and being aware of any recruitment biases that you have and making such small edits like the language used in a job spec and giving candidates interview questions beforehand so they can actually have time to prepare and it's an.
23:38
Thea Bardot: It's actually a safe space for neurodiverse people.
23:41
Thea Bardot: Um, putting salaries on job description I'm gonna say keep going.
23:45
Elizabeth Willetts: I love this conversation.
23:46
Elizabeth Willetts: What else could they do?
23:47
Thea Bardot: this is great just so many little things like, maybe have an employee handbook and, you know, maybe, as a small business, just not give one-size-fits-all policies and literally have different policies for different staff members based on their needs, because none of us are a one-size-fits-all mix, because none of us are one size fits all.
24:08
Thea Bardot: Have one-on-one conversations with staff members and actually ask them what they want, as opposed to trying to figure it out yourself, knowing that you are not.
24:15
Thea Bardot: You are going to get it wrong at some point.
24:17
Thea Bardot: And bringing in external people in interview practices to support you, to hold you accountable.
24:24
Thea Bardot: Making sure that you are looking at diverse profiles and are interviewing diverse profiles.
24:28
Thea Bardot: Looking at your wage, looking at your flexibility set up there's so many easy things to do.
24:35
Elizabeth Willetts: What's your take on this whole return to the office?
24:37
Elizabeth Willetts: Because it's not just travel, it's all industries.
24:40
Elizabeth Willetts: It feels that that is very much the direction of travel on behalf of the recruitment industry.
24:47
Thea Bardot: We are so effing bored this conversation and it just goes back to the game of chicken that's going on like just.
24:57
Thea Bardot: I don't think it should be a one-size-fits-all again like there are.
25:01
Thea Bardot: Like.
25:01
Thea Bardot: I went for a dog walk at 11 am this morning and I was chatting to this female female presenting person who was sat on a bench and we had this randomly got onto the topic because I was like what are you doing at 11 am, sitting here, looking this fabulous on a bench?
25:17
Thea Bardot: And they were like let me therapist, and I just need to get outside because I need to see people.
25:23
Thea Bardot: And I said, oh, did, like, do you work for yourself?
25:24
Thea Bardot: Then and they were like yeah, yeah, but I just need to get outside because I need to see people.
25:25
Thea Bardot: And I said, oh, like, do you work for yourself?
25:26
Thea Bardot: Then and they were like yeah, yeah, yeah.
25:28
Thea Bardot: But I just craved the office, I just want to go back.
25:30
Thea Bardot: And I was like okay, cool, I hear you, because you're like a party of one, and that's really difficult when you especially if you're a business owner, it's probably the biggest culture shock is having this team around you and this support network.
25:44
Thea Bardot: And then christmas party is you with a christmas hat on going?
25:47
Thea Bardot: This is lovely, cool, sat on your tod in the corner.
25:49
Thea Bardot: But also there are people that are so staunch on the other side of things, on the remote side, it just for me.
25:58
Thea Bardot: I autistic and I have adhd and I have a dog going to the office.
26:04
Thea Bardot: Look, I love an excuse to dress up like, got an outfit on, I'll actually bother putting makeup on.
26:11
Thea Bardot: I feel really good about myself.
26:13
Thea Bardot: Gonna go into that office by two o'clock.
26:16
Thea Bardot: I can't function.
26:17
Thea Bardot: I then need to leave, go home.
26:19
Thea Bardot: I'm then absolutely buggered that's the technical term for two days, like I can't get out of bed for two days because I've been completely overstimulated by the commute, by being present, by being seen.
26:32
Thea Bardot: It's just too much for my brain.
26:34
Thea Bardot: Now I could have done that because I was in a routine before COVID and now I struggle to do it completely.
26:40
Thea Bardot: I don't know how I would do it and I get.
26:43
Thea Bardot: I don't work regular hours.
26:45
Thea Bardot: I work best in short bursts and then I will have a nap during the day because anyone listening and doesn't know autistic traits, autistic people have a lot smaller battery than neurotypical people, so we need to recharge a lot more.
27:02
Thea Bardot: We can also get a lot done in a short amount of time.
27:07
Thea Bardot: That's one adhd side.
27:09
Thea Bardot: See, I've had to learn how I best work when I'm not told in a structured environment, and that's been really difficult for me.
27:20
Thea Bardot: I've gone in phases of doing work between like 11 pm and 4 am, which I have nothing against the days that my brain wants to do, that I get so much done, but I can't follow a typical day.
27:31
Thea Bardot: I just I know that about myself now.
27:34
Elizabeth Willetts: How did you cope with that then, when you were at work, when you were, you know, previously employed?
27:39
Thea Bardot: So I was undiagnosed.
27:41
Thea Bardot: I had a very bad drugs problem.
27:44
Thea Bardot: I was using stimulants to get myself through the day and I won't go too deep into it, but I was heavily reliant on substances to get through nine to five, and when I wasn't on them I was leaving the office, getting home and I was asleep by 7 pm and I would sleep all the way through to 7 am the next day and then go straight to the office.
28:07
Thea Bardot: My life was literally office, home office.
28:11
Thea Bardot: I had nothing in between.
28:13
Thea Bardot: It's cool, it's basically it's called masking, like a lot of people don't know that.
28:17
Thea Bardot: They might be neurodivergent and if you've built up a routine, especially when you're younger as well, you can push through it.
28:23
Thea Bardot: As I've got older and now I'm on hormones or I'm trans, my autism has got worse.
28:30
Thea Bardot: All the effects are heightened.
28:32
Thea Bardot: Let's say that my ADHD is very different and I'm having to relearn how to function again, which is it's always really fun, but it just it's very hard.
28:43
Thea Bardot: Like if I wasn't running my business, I would be highly let me start again.
28:49
Thea Bardot: I would struggle to find a role that would make the required, that would change my setup enough to support me yeah, I wonder if a lot of people feel like that, though, because allowances.
29:02
Elizabeth Willetts: Allowances is the word, so yeah, because they, you know, in covid you got used to having work fit more around life and then it's like gosh, it's gonna be really hard now to have it wrench it the other way around and it feels quite exhausting to lots of people and and then you think is the trade-off worth it?
29:26
Thea Bardot: I wonder if a lot of people are thinking that yeah, I mean, I just realized I didn't even answer your question, um, before, about going back to the office and promote, so a plus on that.
29:35
Thea Bardot: Yeah, that is exactly what's happening.
29:38
Thea Bardot: People have just chosen themselves a lot more, which is I'm like, yes, do that, do that, but also companies aren't listening to that.
29:46
Elizabeth Willetts: No, they're not.
29:47
Thea Bardot: They're not listening.
29:48
Elizabeth Willetts: And the papers, it's all bash, bash, bash people.
29:51
Elizabeth Willetts: You know any ill in society?
29:53
Elizabeth Willetts: It feels like people are away from home.
29:56
Thea Bardot: It's anything bad in the society, it's the trans community.
29:59
Elizabeth Willetts: People are away from home.
30:00
Elizabeth Willetts: I was going to say the trans community.
30:02
Elizabeth Willetts: It's the trans community or the Gen Zs right now say the trans community, it's the trans community or the gen z's.
30:08
Elizabeth Willetts: Right now I'm a millennial, so I'm not getting bashed quite as much on that.
30:10
Thea Bardot: I'm a millennial too, but and look, I've bashed.
30:12
Thea Bardot: I've been part of the bashing gen z brigade.
30:15
Thea Bardot: I will hold my hands up, but I literally wrote a blog post the other day saying like this is where we should listen to gen z's, because they've actually got some stuff right I actually think I think they've got the boundaries that us, as millennials, never had and I'm like, do you know what hats off?
30:28
Elizabeth Willetts: I wish you I had had that courage in my 20s oh my god, absolutely.
30:33
Thea Bardot: But our parents traumatized us and and our employers traumatized us.
30:37
Thea Bardot: Like my first job I was working at like 900 pounds a month as an internship and I was working till midnight every night.
30:45
Thea Bardot: Like that's privilege to be able to afford that, to do that yeah like.
30:51
Thea Bardot: That's where equity the word equity equity comes from.
30:55
Thea Bardot: And it's happening again.
30:58
Thea Bardot: The cost just to get to an office is skyrocketing, like no matter where you are.
31:03
Thea Bardot: People are having to move further outside of london because they can't afford.
31:07
Thea Bardot: We'll kind of get flat, let alone like bored.
31:09
Thea Bardot: All of these offices are in prime locations and the companies don't want to let go of them.
31:14
Thea Bardot: They're narrowing down the pool of talent they've got available and I'm, as a recruiter, I'm bashing my head against the table like we had a client the other day.
31:24
Thea Bardot: Go cool, our two biggest sales people, highest returners, are remote.
31:29
Thea Bardot: One is in amsterdam and one I was like great, so you're open to remote for this?
31:34
Thea Bardot: Yeah, because I've got three people here that are like incredible, top tier, remote, don't want a london salary?
31:40
Thea Bardot: No, because they are only remote because of the pandemic.
31:45
Thea Bardot: And then they ended up going there and now they're there.
31:47
Thea Bardot: But we need everyone to be in the office and you know when you're like are we having the same conversation?
31:52
Thea Bardot: Yeah, let's take this again.
31:54
Thea Bardot: Your two top billers are both fully remote.
31:58
Thea Bardot: Yet here's other proven top billers in other companies that want to work for your company on a remote basis.
32:05
Thea Bardot: But you're saying no, yeah, because they're remote See exhibit A and it's just wild.
32:16
Elizabeth Willetts: At the moment We've got more clients than not going harder and doubling down on the office you know, it's interesting because I just did a client briefing with the client who'd let the previous person go because they hadn't come into the office enough that's your own insecurities.
32:33
Thea Bardot: I'm sorry, let's turn this around and bash millennials a second.
32:36
Thea Bardot: It's a certain type of person that, because of what happened around them in their office environment, they're projecting that onto others.
32:43
Thea Bardot: Like, just because you might not work best in this environment doesn't mean other people will or won't, whatever the case may be.
32:53
Thea Bardot: And I also think there's a big stigma you know what we're just saying about this weird stigma of people not wanting to post because they don't want to get cancelled.
33:02
Thea Bardot: There's almost this and I don't know where it came from.
33:06
Thea Bardot: There's this thing where it's like oh my gosh, well, how am I going to possibly train someone remotely?
33:11
Thea Bardot: Like, I get it.
33:13
Thea Bardot: If you're a small business, I get it.
33:14
Thea Bardot: It's tough.
33:15
Thea Bardot: Like the best way to learn I 100% agree is to have someone sat next to you and be in an office.
33:21
Thea Bardot: I completely agree with that.
33:23
Thea Bardot: But also it can be done very easily remotely.
33:27
Thea Bardot: It is not different.
33:29
Thea Bardot: Just have recording technology, have someone on a call with you.
33:33
Thea Bardot: Mentor, I don't know, mentor them.
33:36
Elizabeth Willetts: What would you say to these companies that want to bring people back though because of the cult they want to create a culture?
33:42
Thea Bardot: good for you, but you're not going to get access to the stuff you want okay, how do you create a culture then, remotely, you know?
33:49
Elizabeth Willetts: if then companies are getting more on board, how would you create that?
33:54
Thea Bardot: is a big question because it depends on the budget you've got and it depends on the size of the company you're in.
33:58
Thea Bardot: I think I'll answer it two ways.
34:01
Thea Bardot: If you're a big company and you've got loads of budget, it's really easy because you do it once a year Fun retreat to a hot destination.
34:09
Elizabeth Willetts: Yeah, everyone has a great time.
34:10
Elizabeth Willetts: Everyone has a great time.
34:12
Elizabeth Willetts: That's a way to build your employer brand.
34:15
Thea Bardot: Exactly, and you've got the content team out there on the way.
34:18
Thea Bardot: No, that's me joking, of course.
34:21
Thea Bardot: Obviously you need to look at people think culture is pizzas and beer and going out on a friday night.
34:30
Thea Bardot: I just want to advocate that it's not that anymore.
34:33
Thea Bardot: Culture to me is creating a safe space where voices are heard, where people can bring their authentic self to work and their wellness as a human being is put at the forefront of said culture.
34:49
Thea Bardot: So what we did as a remote company not to use ourselves as a case study, but we did some all right things is we focused on giving everyone access to therapy, because I believe everyone should have access to therapy.
35:02
Thea Bardot: So we partner with a company called employ mind and people use their personal email addresses, so it's completely I have no oversight on it.
35:10
Thea Bardot: They get two credits a month to sign up and have a virtual session with either a therapist, a business coach, a life coach or a diet and nutritionist and they can interchange.
35:24
Thea Bardot: That was one of my non-negotiables.
35:26
Thea Bardot: That's been amazing for culture, because people will block their diary out because they've got a therapy session and it's then talked about and it's like, once that becomes part of the language of your company, it's like sorry, I can't be that meeting because I've got a therapy session today.
35:44
Thea Bardot: Oh great, cool.
35:45
Thea Bardot: If you want to like decompress about that therapy session, let's put a coffee in on Friday.
35:49
Thea Bardot: People start talking about their mental health and you know it's a safe space.
35:54
Thea Bardot: I'd never had that in a business before.
35:57
Thea Bardot: And to plus on that, the second thing that I always wanted to do was bring in wellness.
36:02
Thea Bardot: So we partnered with a brand called Hika, which is H-E-K-A and on top of people's wages, we give them 50 pounds a month that they're not taxed on and as credit on Hika and on Hika they've just got these incredible wellness products and it's everything from like aromatherapy and massages and sleep masks through to money apps to help you manage your money.
36:27
Thea Bardot: You can have therapy on there.
36:29
Thea Bardot: Lgbt apps there's what have I got from there.
36:33
Thea Bardot: There's cinema stuff for the kids, there's away days, there's everything you want.
36:38
Thea Bardot: But it allows employees to have dedicated resource to spend on themselves for wellness that is not managed by the company per month.
36:50
Thea Bardot: That's two really quick examples of a value add from a client perspective.
36:55
Thea Bardot: From an employer perspective, sorry that I would love to challenge employers to do.
37:01
Thea Bardot: Nobody wants a cycle to work scheme anymore.
37:04
Thea Bardot: That is like when I look at a benefits thing of a company and they say it's a really nice place to work, I don't care, that's not a benefit, like, show me what you are doing to support your staff and that's how you grow the culture, because you can have a fully remote culture.
37:23
Thea Bardot: You can have a fully remote office but have a stronger culture than in a real office.
37:28
Thea Bardot: Because if your real office culture is built around booze and is built around sitting at that desk till six o'clock and then going to the pub together which is what most companies stuff is, maybe having a senior leadership team or something that occasionally says let's do a wellness day, no, if you can make sure everyone's individual needs are met as a company, as based as human rights, they can come in and be their authentic selves.
37:57
Thea Bardot: They're going to talk amongst each other and that is the culture.
38:01
Thea Bardot: Like it's not pizza and it's not booze.
38:04
Thea Bardot: Yeah, sorry, I went off my ramp.
38:06
Elizabeth Willetts: No, I really like that.
38:08
Elizabeth Willetts: That's such a good point.
38:09
Elizabeth Willetts: And I mean, I've been in offices as well, where it's not necessarily always it's been about booze, but everyone's been working with headphones anyway.
38:22
Thea Bardot: And then it's been everyone's been sat um working with headphones anyway and then it's like well, there's not really a lot of culture, quite, you know it's a very quiet or you could be working from home at that point.
38:26
Thea Bardot: I also think culture is a term that there's.
38:27
Thea Bardot: It's almost an umbrella term.
38:28
Thea Bardot: Like culture to me is someone tries it with one of my colleagues.
38:34
Thea Bardot: It's me stepping in and making it very clear that it's not acceptable.
38:38
Thea Bardot: We will not be working with them again.
38:40
Thea Bardot: That's part of culture, like because you're leading with values.
38:45
Thea Bardot: It's having that conversation.
38:49
Thea Bardot: It's never singling someone out on a video call or a team meeting.
38:52
Thea Bardot: It's showcasing your values and standing up for them.
38:56
Thea Bardot: It's having flexible working and supporting people to go and pick up their kids from school.
39:03
Thea Bardot: It's donating to charities.
39:05
Thea Bardot: It's like that all falls under culture.
39:09
Thea Bardot: But people just look at like physical benefits to culture and it's not that it's about values, it's about actions.
39:17
Thea Bardot: And it's not that it's about values.
39:18
Elizabeth Willetts: It's about actions and it's about people you mentioned yeah, that you mentioned earlier about one of the most powerful things job seekers could do is build a personal brand.
39:26
Elizabeth Willetts: Why is that?
39:28
Thea Bardot: honestly, because that will transcend the role you're in always.
39:33
Thea Bardot: If people know you, your brand, what you stand for, the doors will open for you automatically yes doesn't matter what industry you're in, if people know who you are and want to be talking about you.
39:45
Thea Bardot: You want to be talked about in rooms that you're not in either this might be our quote you know and whether it's good, bad or ugly like having your name mentioned in a room you're not in will create opportunities and having a brand or a voice that people are like oh my gosh, I love your posts like not to be big-headed, but today alone, from new client business reach outs, I've had four people and I can even send you the emails to show you say look, look, we don't want to work with you right now, but we know exactly what you stand for.
40:19
Thea Bardot: We follow you on LinkedIn.
40:21
Thea Bardot: We love your posts Like that's really cool.
40:24
Elizabeth Willetts: It's powerful.
40:26
Thea Bardot: So if that's happening to me as a recruiter, where someone's on a budget to work with me, imagine what that's doing for you as someone that's a job seeker or someone that's already in a role, like someone could poach you, someone could have a job up and instead of going to the recruiter because they're not, because they don't have any money at the moment, they can go directly to you because they might not have met you but they might see what you stand for.
40:46
Thea Bardot: Linkedin also has an incredible algorithm.
40:50
Thea Bardot: I'm I'm preaching to the converted erroneous.
40:53
Thea Bardot: There's no other platform where you can access third party connections by doing nothing.
40:57
Thea Bardot: Like for anyone that doesn't know this, if you put up a post on linkedin if I liked elizabeth's post that then immediately gets shared to my first connections.
41:07
Thea Bardot: One of those first connections then likes the same post, which is the elizabeth's post.
41:11
Thea Bardot: That then goes to their connections.
41:13
Thea Bardot: Ie you're getting into third connections.
41:15
Thea Bardot: Ie you're getting in front of people you never would have been able to get in front of, and it's the only platform that does that.
41:21
Thea Bardot: It's so cool.
41:22
Thea Bardot: I like such a LinkedIn advocate.
41:25
Elizabeth Willetts: I love it and also it's the decision makers as well, and those companies you want to work for.
41:28
Elizabeth Willetts: You can literally find exactly no one's got you know like on Instagram.
41:33
Elizabeth Willetts: Everyone's got handles, you everyone's got handles.
41:35
Elizabeth Willetts: You don't know actually who people actually really are, whereas everyone's got their own name on linkedin.
41:38
Elizabeth Willetts: You want to work for a certain business, you can find the ceo or the head of you know whatever department you want to work of that business and get in touch with them absolutely I.
41:47
Thea Bardot: Some of the advice I always give to people is look linkedin jobs.
41:52
Thea Bardot: They're getting hundreds and hundreds of applications and that just spouting people the hiring managers are not reading them.
41:58
Thea Bardot: Spoiler alert.
41:59
Thea Bardot: They put it up, they get completely overwhelmed.
42:01
Thea Bardot: They're not reading them.
42:02
Thea Bardot: Like that's generalizing, but I've heard that so many times this week already.
42:07
Thea Bardot: If you're a job seeker and you're not getting any luck by applying with easy applies, obviously firstly go and use Elizabeth's job board first, please.
42:17
Thea Bardot: But as a plus to that, look at your brand and look at the companies that you want to work for, because people don't actually look introspectively.
42:26
Thea Bardot: People haven't had to use a cv or might have only got jobs through their networks before.
42:32
Thea Bardot: It's not like that anymore.
42:34
Thea Bardot: If you are applying I don't know to a ski brand and your CV is like summer holidays really basic example that's this has never happened in my life just visualizing snow and snow and sun they don't match and also you're not really doing research on that company if you're applying with your summer brand CV to the winter brand company.
42:58
Thea Bardot: So take the time to go over onto Instagram we just mentioned Instagram and look at those companies that you think you want to work for and see what their employer brand is like, see what it's like to work there, like you can click the little down button and see companies like these write it down, if you're old school, on a pen and paper or look at, put together a little spreadsheet.
43:19
Thea Bardot: Then go back onto linkedin and start looking at the people and the decision making in those companies and just connect with them in some message.
43:28
Thea Bardot: In the meantime, make sure your cv has words, phrases, tones, all the stuff that you need it to to fit in with that brand.
43:36
Thea Bardot: It's branding yourself in to get in front of people that you want to get in front of, but also making sure that the cultures of those companies are ones that you actually want to work for and just to advocate as well.
43:47
Thea Bardot: I don't know if people even know this, but one of the best features that has happened recently is Glassdoor.
43:54
Thea Bardot: Have added a review of interview processes for companies.
43:59
Thea Bardot: Oh that's interesting.
44:00
Elizabeth Willetts: I did not know that.
44:00
Elizabeth Willetts: Thank you.
44:02
Thea Bardot: Yeah, please hold companies accountable for their BS, because I know so many companies and I wish I didn't know this but I know companies that are either forcefully suggesting or strongly demanding that their current employees write positive Glassdoor reviews to outweigh the negative Glassdoor reviews of ex-employees.
44:25
Thea Bardot: So those Glassdoor reviews, you see, that's why recruiters are always like pinch of salt.
44:31
Thea Bardot: If we know something either way, a way that people can't argue is write reviews of how you are treated interview processes.
44:41
Thea Bardot: People think that we can't hold companies accountable based on how they were treated in interviews.
44:47
Thea Bardot: You can, and it's a safe space to do it on glassdoor.
44:51
Thea Bardot: It's completely anonymous.
44:52
Thea Bardot: You will not get any backlash from it.
44:55
Thea Bardot: What it does is it safeguards other people interviewing in those companies and can create the change you need.
45:02
Thea Bardot: Because I know I'm preaching to the converted again, liz with her but companies do not see the way they treat people in interview processes is usually a direct factor into how they're going to treat them when they're a full-time member of staff, and that's recruitment 101.
45:19
Thea Bardot: I don't know how I got onto this, fran, but I'm glad we were glass door reviews.
45:26
Elizabeth Willetts: You can review the companies you're interviewing for as well.
45:28
Elizabeth Willetts: And before we wrap up, I know you've spoken very openly on linkedin about your journey from becoming a gay man to um to a trans woman.
45:37
Elizabeth Willetts: Do you want to just give us some like?
45:39
Elizabeth Willetts: There's a lot of negative press, isn't there, about trans people and it'd be really good to get your take on it and some of the misconceptions that we read here.
45:48
Thea Bardot: I mean, I'll be honest, the press is all right, we're awful.
45:51
Thea Bardot: Don't trust trans people.
45:52
Thea Bardot: I'm joking, I'm completely joking.
45:55
Thea Bardot: Yeah, trans people, we're here.
45:57
Thea Bardot: The problem we have is we represent under one percent of the population.
46:02
Thea Bardot: Most people have never come across a trans person, or they listen, they think they haven't.
46:08
Thea Bardot: They think they haven't met, seen, sat next to or talked to a trans person.
46:13
Thea Bardot: Spoiler alert you probably have we're very much here, we're very much in amongst you already, and I always say, when I'm giving inclusivity talks on being trans, like I chose my happiness over my safety and that's a really harrowing sentence.
46:32
Thea Bardot: I have to say it's the best decision I've ever done, ever made.
46:36
Thea Bardot: I was living my life through cellophane, felt like I was not really there yeah.
46:45
Thea Bardot: I felt even if I was present in a room.
46:47
Thea Bardot: I felt like I wasn't present in that room.
46:49
Thea Bardot: I didn't know what was, in abbreviated commas, wrong with me, and it turned up.
46:55
Thea Bardot: Nothing was wrong with me apart from the vessel that I a flesh and bones that I'm walking around in, and since I began my journey, transitioning, it's been really tough.
47:03
Thea Bardot: I'm super lucky because again I have some funds behind me.
47:07
Thea Bardot: I've been able to have my operation, my gender authentic surgery, in January.
47:11
Thea Bardot: I'm not going to answer the question that everyone wants to know, but, yes, it is better I wasn't actually answered it in the best way possible and and listen.
47:23
Thea Bardot: Trans people just want.
47:24
Thea Bardot: We just want to exist and right now, unfortunately, we're having our rights taken away in real time discussed by politicians.
47:30
Thea Bardot: The the biggest thing is trans youth.
47:32
Thea Bardot: If I was a trans kid right now, like I don't know what I do they're just being attacked left, right and center and all we want, as trans people, is to be loved, to live our lives openly as ourselves, our authentic selves, and we just want trans kids to be able to grow up and I think companies don't realize that they can make a lot of change.
47:54
Thea Bardot: They can make political change, they can make societal change and often the tea is left out.
48:00
Thea Bardot: We're in pride month right now and we want to just see unwavering support for trans colleagues, adding trans inclusive policies into your policies so what would those look like then?
48:12
Thea Bardot: they can look like everything from language.
48:14
Thea Bardot: They can look like supporting with private health care to get access to medication.
48:20
Thea Bardot: They can look like gender neutral bathrooms.
48:24
Thea Bardot: They can look like mental health support.
48:27
Thea Bardot: They're not much different to cis policies, it's just in the trans community we're five times as likely to have mental health issues as our cis allies we are.
48:43
Thea Bardot: I think it's three times more likely to be at least adhd, more often than not autistic and have and be on the neuro spicy spectrum.
48:53
Thea Bardot: So we need allowances made for us in the workspace.
48:57
Thea Bardot: It's some days I literally can't look in the mirror because my gender dysphoria is so bad, so I don't want to be on a video call or I don't want to be in the office.
49:07
Thea Bardot: It's making sure those allowances are there and we're just thought about as people.
49:11
Thea Bardot: There's so many things you can do.
49:13
Thea Bardot: The easiest thing you can do, again, if I'm the first trans person you've ever met, heard or seen.
49:18
Thea Bardot: However, you're viewing this content, not viewing this content.
49:21
Thea Bardot: However, you're engaging with this content.
49:22
Thea Bardot: Just add your pronouns onto your LinkedIn profile and suggest that you put them onto your LinkedIn signatures.
49:29
Thea Bardot: And that's not about you, because not everything is about you.
49:33
Thea Bardot: It's about making it clear that we should not assume people's genders, and it's making it clear that it is a safe space for trans people to be around you and with you.
49:45
Thea Bardot: Gender neutral language is what's he mean?
49:50
Elizabeth Willetts: like they rather than she or he?
49:52
Thea Bardot: yeah.
49:53
Thea Bardot: So it's just not trying not to assume based on how someone is presenting, what their gender is.
49:58
Thea Bardot: It's really tough because we've been conditioned I still struggle with it We've been conditioned our whole lives to be like oh, long hair, pink, flowy dress must be femme, and it's like relearning that people are people and until they tell you how they identify, you shouldn't make the assumption on how people do identify and push your views on them essentially.
50:23
Thea Bardot: For again there, I always say to people when I'm doing a talk there's another trans person in this room.
50:30
Thea Bardot: They're just.
50:31
Thea Bardot: It's just not a safe enough space for them to be out right now and you could be misgendering someone on a daily basis and not know about it because they don't feel like they can share their pronouns with you or feel safe enough to do so.
50:43
Thea Bardot: So if you do default to they them and add your pronouns, it makes it a safe space and genuinely it can save lives.
50:52
Thea Bardot: It sounds like such a small thing to do, but if I saw someone that had they them pronouns before I came out, I'd want to talk to them yeah or if I just saw someone that had like he, him or she, her or she, like pronouns there, it would have just made it a lot easier conversation because I would assume that that person is clued up about supporting trans people.
51:17
Thea Bardot: It's never.
51:18
Thea Bardot: It's never about the person putting the pronouns there.
51:21
Thea Bardot: It doesn't make sense.
51:22
Thea Bardot: So yeah, trans people, we're here.
51:24
Thea Bardot: We are here, we are beautiful.
51:26
Thea Bardot: We're in a ton of debt, we're poor and give us jobs.
51:33
Elizabeth Willetts: I love it well.
51:35
Elizabeth Willetts: Thank you so much, athea, for joining me today.
51:38
Elizabeth Willetts: Where, where can people find you, connect with you and find more about Lightning Traveler Agreement?
51:43
Thea Bardot: I love that Just on LinkedIn.
51:44
Thea Bardot: So it's at Thea Bardot on LinkedIn and on Instagram.
51:48
Thea Bardot: My Instagram is mainly me laying in bed with my dog, so just a.
51:52
Elizabeth Willetts: Very cute dog.
51:53
Elizabeth Willetts: If you're a dog fan Very cute dog, very cute dog.
51:56
Thea Bardot: But yeah, send us a follow on linkedin and you can check out lightning at lightningtravelrecruitingcom brilliant.
52:03
Elizabeth Willetts: Thank you ever so much for joining me today thanks for having me thank you for listening to another episode of the work.
52:15
Elizabeth Willetts: It like a mum podcast.
52:16
Elizabeth Willetts: If you enjoyed this episode, please please rate, review and subscribe, and don't forget to share the link with a friend.
52:23
Elizabeth Willetts: If you're on LinkedIn, please send me a connection request at Elizabeth Willett and let me know your thoughts on this week's episode.
52:30
Elizabeth Willetts: You can also follow my recruitment site Investing in Women on LinkedIn, facebook and Instagram.
52:35
Elizabeth Willetts: Until next time, keep on chasing your biggest dreams.