Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Robert Valentine about his choice of Pyramids of Mars (1/4)

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Talks to Robert Valentine about his choice of Pyramids of Mars (1/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:02
  At last you are here. I, Ibrahim Namin, and all my
• 0:06
  forebears have served you faithfully through the thousands
• 0:09
  of years that you have slept. We have guarded the secret of
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  your tomb. Stand.
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  Look upon my face, Great 1 Lord Sutek, I dare not look.
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  Is this the face of Sutek Asta, Spare me.
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  Spare me. I am a true servant of the great
• 0:38
  Sutek. I am the servant of Sutek.
• 0:42
  He needs no other. I bring Sutek's gift of death.
• 1:00
  Welcome back to a hamster with a blunt pen knife, the Doctor Who
• 1:04
  commentary podcast, the Doctor Who commentary podcast that will
• 1:08
  go on and on and on because if you think the entirety of
• 1:12
  classic and new who have been covered, we're doing it again.
• 1:15
  Baby pyramids Miles has been done before and here we are
• 1:18
  again. It's a different conversation
• 1:20
  each time. I am here today with a man who
• 1:25
  has not graced my doorstep for some time, Mr. Rob Valentine.
• 1:30
  Hello, Rob. Hello, Joe.
• 1:32
  Well, there's a reason for that. Yeah, success.
• 1:34
  How dare you be successful? Our wedding day.
• 1:39
  Oh yes. I turned up.
• 1:42
  I was there. I was actually full jilted
• 1:46
  listener. I told you this podcast career
• 1:49
  is important to me. I had two recordings that day.
• 1:53
  I was so embarrassed. Anyway, look, I'll let bygones
• 1:56
  be bygones. I'm here.
• 1:57
  Now have a good party though. Yeah, I did.
• 2:01
  I did. Yeah, I did.
• 2:02
  Actually. It turned, it turned out OK.
• 2:04
  Just the hotel wasn't wasted. Let's just put it that way.
• 2:07
  Back to Wetherspoons. It's a it's a great, great.
• 2:10
  Did you know how did? You know, we're all on a budget
• 2:13
  these days, Rob. What are we here to talk about
• 2:16
  today? Now last time we did the
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  Abominable Snowman and you told me the word cryptozoology.
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  I did, yes. Yeah, the, yeah, the, the, the,
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  the theme, the subject, the area of hidden creatures, basically
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  that's. Kevin, I'm wishing you hadn't
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  because I've been using that word ever since every time I
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  learn a clever word. Can you please give us a sort of
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  an umbrella term for this story please?
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  What really, I mean, the stuff we're going to be talking about,
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  because on our Abominable Stoneman discussion, we did talk
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  about maybe doing, having a few more talks and we're kind of
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  doing that now. We're looking at certain Doctor
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  Who's and certain kind of influence, you know, also
• 2:59
  looking at their influences as well, because this is kind of my
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  my area of just, you know, it's my happy place.
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  But yeah, so we what was the question again?
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  Well, it's sort of. I'm assuming it's got Egypt.
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  Oh, yeah, sorry, somewhere, but yeah, really, this is that's it.
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  No, no, this is sort of Egyptological horror, or if we
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  go back to the origins, really Egyptological romances because
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  it really, it's a Victorian genre.
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  That's really what these are. Yeah.
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  Yeah. With the kind of with the
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  capital R kind of thing. OK, I guess I'll say not many
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  people fall in love in this. Yeah, exactly.
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  So what we've done on this one is I, I've, I've made you do
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  about homework, Joe. And we have both watched for
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  this one. Hammers The Mummy from 1959,
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  starring Peter Cushing and Christopher Lee and George
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  Pastel. Listen to that.
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  Yeah, the the mummy hammer and that cast.
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  Yeah, you sounds like a dead Sir, doesn't it?
• 4:02
  Yeah, it's it's not one of Jimmy Sangster's best scripts, I'll
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  give you that. I didn't tell you that going and
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  I thought he'll he'll find out after about 5 minutes.
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  I figured right, it was just going to be loads of scenes of
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  the mummy going around murdering people.
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  I feel like Pyramus Moss. I think there was only like 3
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  scenes with a mummy in it. Yeah, yeah.
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  You would have expected there to have been more.
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  However, Robert Holmes, he takes those three scenes.
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  He does, yes. Clearly had, in fact, we were
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  sort of messaging each other as I was watching it and I was
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  going, you know, I think everyone involved in Doctor Who
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  has watched this film at some point, you know, all the
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  influences coming out of it, but certainly the, the switch from
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  Egypt to England. And that's, yeah, that's the
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  Hammer contribution, because the Hammer film itself is owes an
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  awful lot to the Universal Mummy movies, not the original with
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  Boris Karloff, but the kind of the pulpier adventure ones they
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  did in the in the 1940s with the Mummy Karis.
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  And Christopher Lee's Mummy is Karis, Yeah.
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  We will refer to this film as we go through and the influences
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  that we see. I mean, I've said Egypt is sort
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  of Ealing with lots of balsa wood sets in place of the
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  pyramids and things like that. But you know what?
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  I'm a Doctor Who fan, so I love that sort of stuff.
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  And the best thing about the hammers, right?
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  Or one of them is you can spot all these Doctor Who guest
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  actors. Every time I watch one there's
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  people from various Doctor Who's.
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  Exactly. Exactly.
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  Yeah. And this one, this one, you
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  know, hammers the mummy is is no exception.
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  What I will say is that the mummy itself I thought was
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  appropriately grizzly and slimy and mucky, and the bit where it
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  came smashing through into the house to be shot at by Peter
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  Cushing, that was a great set piece.
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  Yeah, but Speaking of mucky, you did.
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  You did message me to say you missed the tits.
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  You go yes my hashtag mummy tits.
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  It is a thing here on Hamster Got Pen Knife and wow, it's not
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  many Stop 2 stories where you know poachers are crushed to
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  death by a pair of fabulous racks is it?
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  No, but we're about to watch one now.
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  However, as a prelude to this, and I promise you it's relevant,
• 6:20
  I'd like another pass at answering the great Toby
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  Haydock. The Great Toby Haydock asked a
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  question. The great Toby Haydock, not only
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  the man who I'd like to write my obituary, but also who happens
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  to be the author of the crater Mass experiments.
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  The Making of T VS First Sci-fi Classic available now.
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  Yeah. But he asked me a question when
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  we were doing the bomb of snowmen.
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  Which is? And it's relevant for pairs of
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  Mars too. You've got a good memory.
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  Yeah, but why? Yeah.
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  Why does Buddhism get a free pass in Doctor Who?
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  And I want to talk about this because after we did our
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  podcast, friend of the podcast and member of the Ham fan,
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  Jumana messaged me on Twitter. And that's how actually we got
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  talking in the 1st place. Because one really important
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  thing I didn't get to mention, I didn't get to, I forgot to
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  mention in our Bono Snowman talk was the influence of Theosophy
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  on Pulp Fiction of the early 20th century.
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  So I'll, I'll to come back a little bit.
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  Why does Buddhism, why does Oh my God, it's, it's you and your
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  mummy tits. Why does Buddhism, why does
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  Buddhism get a free pass in Doctor Who?
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  I don't think it does, but I would say if it does, it's
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  because when Doctor Who is roofing on certain influences, a
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  sort of non theistic Eastern religion kind of really fits
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  well into certain genres because of the influence of Theosophy on
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  Pulp Fiction of the early early 20th century.
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  And Theosophy is a new religious movement that was from the late
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  19th century created by women called Helena Blavatsky or
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  Madame Blavatsky. And it took stuff from Buddhism,
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  Hinduism and Western occultism and, and also a few things from
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  Victorian fiction as well. And from, you know, from that
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  you had you kind of got more theories about Atlantis and
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  Lemuria and, and weird woo woo stuff like that, which is
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  influential on fiction writers like HP Lovecraft and Robert E
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  Howard, the author of Cone and the Barbarian and all that kind
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  of stuff. So in certain adventure genre
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  stuff you always have like the mystical crystals and the dark
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  gods who turn out to be real and that kind of stuff.
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  And Buddhism as a, as a non theistic religion or, you know,
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  Buddhism in diverted commas fits into the, the kind of the, the,
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  the esoteric kind of mysticism you have in a certain kind of
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  adventure story. So when you've got Doctor Who
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  riffing on stuff like Lost Horizon or in this case the
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  Mummy, non theistic religions get a free pass because that
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  stuff in in in these kind of Victorian romances turns out to
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  be true. However, in this one we actually
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  do have a God. So we're going to go from one
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  story. I promise you, I'm getting
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  there, I'm getting there. We're about to go.
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  We're about to go from one story where you've got classic
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  monsters who are actually robots, a human being who has
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  been possessed by a great intelligence and a great
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  intelligence or an Egyptian God all in one location and the
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  Doctor and his companion slash companions visit are.
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  You sure we're not doing the Abominable Snowmen?
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  I'm not sure we're not doing The Abominable Snowmen, but yeah.
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  So why that brings around, why does Buddhism get a free pass?
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  I would say because Buddhism or something very kind of Buddhism
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  shaped fits when Doctor Who is riffing on certain genres in a
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  specific tradition, namely the kind of the the pulp adventure,
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  Lost World, Europeans going off and exploring the Mystic E,
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  whether it's Tibet or China or in this case Egypt.
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  So I think if there's a reason, genre convenience is probably
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  the reason. It's still there now in Doctor
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  Who. I think when you were just
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  naming the things there, you know, sort of mystical crystals
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  and gods that turn out to be real.
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  Well, I was sort of thinking of Chip Nord RTD 2 era episodes.
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  I was like, bloody hell, this stuff is still relevant now.
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  Yeah, yeah. No, exactly.
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  It's it's a baked tin. It's in, it's in the family tree
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  of the the. You can't.
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  If you resurrect a genre, even if you resurrect it to kind of
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  turn it on its head, you you're still kind of bringing back from
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  the dead or from the tomb all these old ideas.
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  So I think, yeah, it was a brilliant question.
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  And it's it was too fruitful a question to not bring to this
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  one as well. Because again, it's Doctor Who
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  dipping into a version of the Lost World genre, which is why I
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  picked Pyramids of Mars. It was a great fruity answer as
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  well where I learned quite a bit.
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  Did you see the look of fear in my eye when you said the word?
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  I'm not even going to, I'm going to get it wrong there.
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  Was IT theorism? Is that what you said?
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  It Oh no theosophy. I was like, you must know I have
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  no clue what that word means. And then thank God you gave me
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  the Valentine dictionary definition of the word.
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  Thank you very much. Well, it, it, it, it as Jumala
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  said, because we got first got Chang after after that episode,
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  I really kicked myself for not mentioning Theosophy when we
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  were talking about Ebola snowman.
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  Because really it's it's not, it's not Buddhism in that story,
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  really. It's it's kind of it's Western
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  Theosophy dressed up in borrowed robes.
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  But yeah. I've got 2 actually.
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  Shaman has just done her first hamster, you know.
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  I know she has, that's why I mentioned one.
• 12:10
  Before, somehow we managed to talk for 2 1/2 hours about a 45
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  minute episode, but that's because she had a lot to say.
• 12:16
  That was Absolutely Fabulous. It's coming out very soon.
• 12:20
  Two more questions then before we go into episode 1 #1 is when
• 12:24
  we did The Immortal Snowman, you exposed me to a particularly
• 12:27
  tedious podcast all about these people going around the world on
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  the you know. Oh, yes, yes, they haven't been
• 12:37
  in touch, have they? No, it's not good.
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  No good to. Those people.
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  No, no, no. I just wanted to know if there
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  was a similar sort of Egyptology, you know, set Suitek
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  themed podcast. I mean there must be an
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  Egyptology 1. Oh no, there are some really
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  great podcasts out there, actually 1 brilliant.
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  I will always recommend the podcast Hypnogoria by Mr. Jim
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  Moon. And Jim does a really great
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  series on Hypnogoria called Mysteries of the Mummy, which
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  takes you right from the very beginnings of Egyptological
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  fiction right through all the Universal movies up until the
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  present day. So I, I, yeah, I will always
• 13:18
  recommend Hypnagoria to everybody.
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  It's it's, it's one of the best podcasts going basically.
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  And it's a it's a box of delights for whatever kind of
• 13:29
  weird or horror or just mystical folkloric or woo woo subject you
• 13:33
  might care to. Don't have to So to listen to
• 13:37
  tomorrow morning on my walk, You're a dead circle whenever
• 13:40
  you recommend or last time don't recommend a podcast.
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  My last question is that it is sort of in no way links to
• 13:49
  Pyramids of Mars at all, although it did have sort of
• 13:52
  some mythological themes in it, you know, sort of atmosphere,
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  people sort of misinterpreting science fiction ideas.
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  And that is since the last time we spoke, I went to watch the
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  stuff of Legends, the live Big Finish recording, which was a
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  fucking brilliant night. And I just wanted to say thank
• 14:13
  you so much. It was a great, great story.
• 14:15
  It was brilliantly brought to life by all of the actors and
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  everyone. There was a buzz in the air that
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  day, wasn't there? Oh, bless you.
• 14:23
  Yeah, I must have. That was one of the happiest
• 14:25
  experiences of my life, really. That was.
• 14:29
  Yeah, it was, it was. I love writing it and then
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  actually having, you know, I love working with everyone on
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  it. And then all these gorgeous,
• 14:36
  wonderful people turning up to be there and make, make it just,
• 14:42
  you know, something, something much greater than the sum of its
• 14:45
  parts. Yeah, it was.
• 14:46
  It was wonderful. I love it in the theatre when
• 14:49
  that barrier between the actors on the stage and the audience is
• 14:53
  totally shattered. Yeah, sort of feeding off each
• 14:57
  other. And somewhere in the middle of
• 14:58
  that bloody performance when, oh God, I forgot his name and he's
• 15:02
  so great. The master help me out.
• 15:05
  Alex McQueen, Jesus. Christ.
• 15:07
  And he was saying those fruity lines you gave him.
• 15:10
  It was just loving the audience feedback, wasn't it?
• 15:12
  Just going higher and higher than what we could possibly go.
• 15:16
  Oh, God, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I was, I was.
• 15:19
  Yeah, it was, it was wonderful. I was just sat quietly at the
• 15:23
  back for all four performances, just soaking it all in.
• 15:27
  But thank you very much for. It was a wonderful, wonderful.
• 15:31
  I hope they do more. Oh, I'm, I'm praying.
• 15:34
  However, you say it's not connected to pyramids of Mars,
• 15:38
  but actually it is. It's absolute.
• 15:40
  And it's connected to the Ebola snowman as well because, because
• 15:45
  it's, it's a, it's a shameless RIP off of hammers.
• 15:50
  Plague of the zombies, in which in which Cornish Cornish miners
• 15:55
  are turned into zombies and they're made to work down in a
• 15:58
  Cornish tin mine for free by the power of voodoo.
• 16:02
  So yeah, it's, it's I'm, I'm, I'm perpetrating the exact same
• 16:06
  crime of ripping off an old hammer with that one.
• 16:10
  So it's it's actually bang on the money.
• 16:12
  Oh man, it was such a crowd pleaser.
• 16:14
  It was great. And kudos, Cecilia Emery, all
• 16:16
  right, for doing those alien voices on the stage.
• 16:20
  He was really getting into it. And I'm just OK, We will go in a
• 16:24
  second. Man, respect for that Foley guy.
• 16:27
  The guy that was doing all the sound effects live on the stage,
• 16:31
  literally scrunching up bits of paper and clopping together,
• 16:35
  hose and all. I was like, thanks, that was so
• 16:38
  impressive. Oh, it was.
• 16:39
  Yeah, the whole thing was, yeah, fun.
• 16:44
  I just wanted to say it's bravo, Sir.
• 16:46
  Oh. Bless you.
• 16:47
  Well, thank you very much. But yeah, you you've actually
• 16:51
  kept things on topic even though you may not have realized it,
• 16:54
  but. Yes, for the first time ever in
• 16:56
  1000 episodes. Well, sure, we can go into
• 16:58
  episode 1 of Pyramid. Yes, yeah, I've actually got it
• 17:01
  up this time, so I'm going to press play as well.
• 17:03
  So I get this. I'll be able to see what's
• 17:05
  happening. How do you like them apples?
• 17:07
  Yeah, guys, do you remember how smart it was last time when he
• 17:10
  was pretending to see what happens now?
• 17:13
  I mean, this is so luscious production, you've got to watch
• 17:16
  it right whilst we're. Going Oh, absolutely,
• 17:18
  absolutely, absolutely yes. I mean, I still don't know what
• 17:21
  the hell you think of this, but we'll go into that in episode 1.
• 17:24
  We'll count this in then. OK 54321.
• 17:31
  Now, we've dealt with questions from previous podcasts, we've
• 17:34
  had an education on the topic and have been a little bit self
• 17:37
  congratulatory for a good reason.
• 17:39
  Here we are pyramids. Yes.
• 17:41
  And I seriously, I always thought the title was
• 17:43
  referencing the Martian Sphinx. You know, that the the face on
• 17:47
  Mars, that Viking one took that photo.
• 17:50
  But I did some research and that was taken in 1976, a year after
• 17:53
  this. So it's not something that
• 17:57
  Stephen Harris allegedly really wrote Holmes is actually
• 18:00
  referencing at all. Was it just being a bit quirky?
• 18:02
  Then that's a nice. I don't.
• 18:03
  I think maybe ripping on Eric von Daniken, perhaps.
• 18:06
  Now here we have some pyramids. I think this is meant to be
• 18:09
  Sakara. That's what.
• 18:11
  No idea. Says that's what Doctor Warock
• 18:13
  says Later, Yeah. But budget men they could go to.
• 18:16
  Oh, no way. I think that's a quarry with a
• 18:18
  backdrop. No, that it's stock footage.
• 18:21
  It's from the library I think. And here we have fantastic
• 18:24
  looking tomb. The problem is it sounds like
• 18:29
  plywood, and that's the problem with.
• 18:31
  You do have to make these allowances.
• 18:33
  I make, I do make, but just with the sound off it, look at it,
• 18:36
  it's, it's well, the Hammer film doesn't do any better.
• 18:40
  The film took about 10 minutes to get to this point.
• 18:43
  Outside, outside the pyramid for 10 minutes before he goes in.
• 18:49
  Like you know when he goes here. The relacries are still sealed
• 18:52
  Well in the film. It takes them about 5 minutes to
• 18:55
  take it out, brush the sand off, open the door.
• 18:58
  Exactly. They've got 90 minutes to fill.
• 19:00
  Oh no, wait, they do here as well.
• 19:03
  Yeah, I know, I know, I know. I Another thing borrowed from
• 19:08
  the movie and it's most appropriate in this scene.
• 19:11
  Racial stereotypes. Yes, well, you know, they, they
• 19:15
  are Egyptian diggers of the 1920s.
• 19:18
  Victoria Tablian, of course, who is better known as Baranca and
• 19:22
  the Monkey Man in Raiders of Lost Ark.
• 19:26
  Yeah, he's both of them. Yeah.
• 19:27
  Yeah. And Bernard Archer does Marcus
• 19:30
  Scarman on here. Here we look the the curse.
• 19:32
  The thing is though, these, these Egyptian diggers, they're
• 19:36
  right, you know, the, the curse is real.
• 19:40
  And, and, and this, this, this, the colonial Englishman is
• 19:43
  ignoring these silly foreigners, these natives who don't know any
• 19:46
  better and he's about to pay the price for.
• 19:52
  But is he? Is he interested in the mystery?
• 19:54
  Or is he just after the glory of being the person that found it?
• 19:57
  Or is it? Well, he's, you know, he's, he's
• 19:59
  an Edwardian archaeologist. He's going to take stuff to the
• 20:02
  British Museum. That's what you do.
• 20:04
  But he is presented as a nice bloke, right?
• 20:07
  Yeah, but yeah, but you can be. You can be nice and still.
• 20:12
  Oh, and here's our first death. 1st of many. 1st of many, we'll
• 20:17
  keep a We can keep a death count in this one.
• 20:20
  I love model shots like this at the TARDIS and my God, this is
• 20:24
  Tom Baker at his most epic. Well, he knows he's a success
• 20:28
  now, doesn't he? Yeah, the first series has come
• 20:30
  out. The ratings have been great.
• 20:33
  I just, I just feel this is, I mean, I've got, you know, there
• 20:36
  are lots of doctors I love, but it's really difficult not to say
• 20:39
  that Tom Baker is the definitive Dr. just based on on this.
• 20:43
  And my Elizabeth Slayton, she's so wonderful in this.
• 20:46
  I mean on paper that she hasn't got that much is the much to it,
• 20:50
  but they are both so charismatic in this story I love.
• 20:53
  I may quote a bit as well, you know well.
• 20:56
  Not go for it. Go for.
• 20:57
  It they're in the wardrobe, don't you like it?
• 21:00
  No, the bread, she goes. As long as Albert didn't wear it
• 21:02
  when he. That's another thing that this
• 21:06
  did have, that the Mummy film did not have, and that is a
• 21:09
  sardonic wit to it. It's not, it's not.
• 21:13
  Hasn't got any whip to it at all really.
• 21:15
  Unfortunately the Hammer film. But I thought.
• 21:17
  This film was great, but he wasn't given any jokes, was he?
• 21:20
  He's. Got nothing to do yeah, he's got
• 21:21
  little to do but these two. My God, you know, he walked the
• 21:24
  Doctor Who walks in eternity. He is so alien, so ancient.
• 21:28
  I'll. Give you a great example, Rob.
• 21:30
  Yeah, go for it. Perhaps he sneezed.
• 21:34
  I mean, it's a great joke. Do you remember with the sweaty
• 21:36
  Jellic night? Sneeze could set.
• 21:39
  It off so funny now. There's a wonderful story about
• 21:45
  Elizabeth Slayton tells in her autobiography about Paddy
• 21:47
  Russell taking her to the studios where they were.
• 21:51
  They put on the screen all these different shots of what Suitex
• 21:55
  face could look like in the TARDIS, right?
• 21:57
  And she watched Elizabeth Slayton intensely whilst they
• 22:01
  put each picture up. And that was the one where Liz
• 22:04
  Slayton sort of recoiled and shut.
• 22:06
  That's the one. Brilliant, brilliant.
• 22:08
  I actually nicked that moment from a from a 9th Doctor story I
• 22:11
  wrote Station to Station where the the monster, the Grimly
• 22:15
  Group appears in the TARDIS because just but, you know,
• 22:18
  shame, shameless theft we have. Only this in the past about
• 22:20
  stealing from the best, haven't we?
• 22:22
  Well, yeah, if you're going to steal from anyone, steal from
• 22:24
  the best. Don't, no, don't Nick Carfell,
• 22:26
  Nick sings from pyramids and Miles.
• 22:29
  Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. Although if you want to do a
• 22:31
  sequel to sit on Carfell then please do.
• 22:33
  Oh. Look at these sock offer guy.
• 22:36
  Would you reckon these were made for the production or is this
• 22:39
  some these the the BBC would have these in their prop store?
• 22:43
  Possibly a little of both, but I I have enough faith in this
• 22:46
  production team that it is all. Right, right.
• 22:49
  Yeah. I mean.
• 22:51
  Staggeringly gorgeous, yeah. Audience houses are just
• 22:55
  gorgeous, aren't they? And actually this is the first
• 22:59
  interesting tiny whiny thing this story does.
• 23:02
  I think 3 interesting things with the idea that this is a
• 23:05
  time travel show and this one is that the Priory is going to be
• 23:11
  where UNIT HQ will be after the Priory burns down.
• 23:15
  So it's not every Doctor Who story you get that kind of
• 23:19
  emphasis. And this is one of the.
• 23:21
  HQ moves position all the time. I'm assuming it's not, you know,
• 23:24
  the one we thought we sort of land with The Doctors Laboratory
• 23:27
  towards the end of the poetry era.
• 23:29
  I'm assuming it's sort of that one.
• 23:30
  Yes, yeah, I think so too. Look at this set with the gold
• 23:33
  and the the It's just beautiful. It's.
• 23:35
  Beautiful. Yeah, it really is.
• 23:39
  Michael Bilton. Oh yeah, go ahead.
• 23:41
  It's all just cardboard tubes. Yeah, they say it, but it looks
• 23:45
  terrific. It looks incredible.
• 23:48
  And we have, yeah, Brahim Namin, who's Peter Mayock.
• 23:50
  He's Irish actor and he's in the tradition of George Pastel's
• 23:55
  character Mohammed Bay in the Hammer film.
• 23:57
  But and but, that character is a part of a long line of suited
• 24:01
  befetzed villains who control mummies in the Universal films
• 24:04
  as well. So that's due to every one of
• 24:07
  these stories or every RIP off of this story will have this
• 24:11
  character in it. In, in a certain.
• 24:13
  Yeah, if if you're riffing on the 1940s Mummy movies, then
• 24:17
  yes. And we've had Michael Bilton as
• 24:20
  Collins of Butler. And here we have oh goodness,
• 24:25
  what's his name? Playing Doctor Warlock.
• 24:28
  Oh my word, I do know. Copley.
• 24:29
  Copley. Peter Copley.
• 24:31
  Peter Copley. Yes, yeah, yeah.
• 24:33
  See, I know him best from the Joan Hickson, the smartphone
• 24:35
  nemesis I know. Him best from the episode of the
• 24:41
  New Avengers with the birds that go around killing everybody.
• 24:44
  Oh yeah, yeah, he's. Stunning himself at his pole and
• 24:47
  then the shadow comes over him and he's pecked to death by a
• 24:50
  load of birds. Gotcha.
• 24:51
  Yeah, see, I'd forgotten he was in.
• 24:53
  I've forgotten he was in that of.
• 24:55
  Course, now Michael Bilton is fabulous in this role, but his
• 24:59
  turn as Basil in Waiting for God, you know the yes, the
• 25:03
  Bayview is the best route he ever did.
• 25:07
  I mean, look, billowing cobwebs there on the set.
• 25:10
  Just an attention to detail. Yeah, this is it's, it's, it's
• 25:14
  loads of Hammer atmosphere. Not, not not actually from from
• 25:19
  The Mummy per SE, but just it's got that gothic, that wonderful
• 25:23
  gothic horror vibe to it. Rob belonged to Marie
• 25:28
  Antoinette. Wonderful thing.
• 25:29
  Lost her head, you know, Poor woman.
• 25:32
  Grey Line Yeah, I really like Colin and he don't last long.
• 25:37
  Doesn't. He so we better enjoy his
• 25:38
  performance because he's not around forever.
• 25:41
  Unfortunately, but I do think that Paddy Russell casts
• 25:45
  impeccably every Doctor Who story she does.
• 25:48
  Yeah, and I'd also say and and you know, I know I may have a
• 25:51
  Rep for not noticing these things on Doctor Who, but my
• 25:54
  goodness, Paddy Russell, she can she directs this episode
• 25:59
  beautifully. This is a fantastic episode.
• 26:02
  Oh. That's right.
• 26:03
  We had that conversation before, didn't we?
• 26:05
  Where you? Yeah, Yeah.
• 26:05
  I even said I don't look at direction.
• 26:07
  Thank you very much. Well, well, no, I, I, I, I
• 26:10
  understated my case hugely there, but I thought I just.
• 26:12
  I like a bit of contention. If you want to do it at some
• 26:15
  point, I was probably in the contentious mood, so there you
• 26:18
  go. But I mean, I think it's
• 26:20
  probably worthy of note to say that Philip Hinchcliff across
• 26:23
  his three years, pulled in some of the best director or the best
• 26:27
  directors he possibly could. And what they put on the screen,
• 26:31
  it's pretty extraordinary with the budget they had.
• 26:33
  Yeah, I mean, this looks incredible, but the the the, the
• 26:36
  way things are blocked and the, and the way things are chosen to
• 26:39
  be revealed fantastic. And also the the casting is
• 26:42
  exceptional. And it has to be because none of
• 26:45
  these characters stay like long around long enough to to develop
• 26:49
  them as much as they could be. That's I mean.
• 26:51
  Just that that's something that trips up 70s to a lot is going
• 26:54
  from the studio to location. I absolutely believe they've
• 26:57
  just jumped out of that window to the exterior shots.
• 26:59
  Yeah, it's a great bit of acting, an action that bridges
• 27:04
  the gap. But yeah, I'm I'm totally sold.
• 27:07
  It's one of those Doctor Who stories, right?
• 27:08
  And obviously we there will be things other than this is
• 27:12
  magnificent to say about this. But it is one of those Doctor
• 27:15
  Who stories where sort of every level, usually something goes
• 27:17
  wrong direction, acting, score, something, you know, the
• 27:22
  regulars aren't quite in tune with each other.
• 27:24
  Everything here is just top dollar I think.
• 27:27
  Yeah, and and then there's episode 4.
• 27:29
  But anyway, we should. We will have a fight over
• 27:32
  episode 4, right? It reminds me of City
• 27:35
  excellence. It's not a bad thing.
• 27:37
  It's not a bad thing. Discuss.
• 27:40
  Yes. They're over.
• 27:43
  They're listening to. Yeah, so I'm a.
• 27:45
  Child ever sort of creep around outside your house pretending,
• 27:49
  doing these scenes, listening into windows?
• 27:51
  Because I did. Oh yeah.
• 27:52
  Oh yes, I wasn't necessarily playing Pyramids of Mars, but
• 27:56
  yeah, I. I used to go around my house
• 28:00
  with some bits of toilet roll draped across me, so I'm doing
• 28:04
  the mummy lurch around my house. I tried to strangle everybody.
• 28:09
  And I I'd walk around in a pair of red corduroys and no shirt,
• 28:13
  pretending to be Lutheritno and The Incredible Hulk.
• 28:15
  That was kind of oh. Is that right?
• 28:17
  Yes, yeah. OK, we've got about that, but
• 28:20
  there goes back then. Now look what on earth is just
• 28:23
  moving inside that sarcophagus then before.
• 28:25
  Who can possibly tell? Oh, we've lost 1, Butler.
• 28:28
  Yeah, we have. Damn it, the ghosts have
• 28:32
  returned and and so far, if we're watching this for the very
• 28:36
  first time from behind the sofa in 1975, there might be a mummy
• 28:42
  in this. We don't.
• 28:43
  Later we're going to find out there are more, There's more
• 28:45
  than one mummy. But at the moment we have a
• 28:47
  villain in this in a suit wearing a fez and something
• 28:51
  inside a sarcophagus in a an Edwardian house.
• 28:56
  So we're expecting a mummy. It just keeps building, don't
• 28:59
  it? We get a mummy, then we get a
• 29:01
  possessed zombie and then we get a gold.
• 29:04
  I mean, it just gets bigger and. Bigger, exactly where it goes
• 29:07
  along. And I like it when the Doctor
• 29:08
  uses his scarf. Slow up.
• 29:11
  There's a lovely bit of direction there.
• 29:13
  We just sort of talked all over it.
• 29:14
  But it's where he pulls out the gum, right?
• 29:16
  And you see Warlock's reaction before you see the gum.
• 29:19
  So, you know, and the the Dudley Simpson music, which is
• 29:23
  beautiful throughout this entire story, one of his best.
• 29:27
  It's the most percussive, I think Dudley Simpson ever is in
• 29:31
  Doctor Who. He's got his, you know, he's,
• 29:33
  what's that, that weird thing you scrape called?
• 29:36
  Is it a gyro? Gyro.
• 29:38
  Do you want to mean the video goes Rick, Rick that one.
• 29:42
  He's using that a bit in this. He's got a tambourine going at
• 29:45
  some points. Here's our first look at the
• 29:50
  Mummy and it's it's got that I love.
• 29:52
  I love that kind of that you know when you're a kid making
• 29:55
  plaster scene people and you've got two, it's got 2 thumbprints
• 29:58
  in the face either side. It's a good look.
• 30:00
  That's it. I think you only made plaster
• 30:02
  scene people when you were middle class.
• 30:04
  I was working class, so we made Plasticine people all right.
• 30:08
  Oh well, that's just sorry, I've enough trouble.
• 30:12
  My dad's from Battersea, my mum's from Lancashire and I was,
• 30:15
  I was made to talk this way so. This here, this is one of those
• 30:18
  very hard scenes, right? You know where it pans across
• 30:21
  these sort of ruins in the garden because that wasn't in
• 30:24
  the VHS. They they did a cut down VHS
• 30:27
  taking the cliffhangers out and that was my Pyramids of Mars for
• 30:31
  about 10 years. So I didn't have any
• 30:34
  cliffhangers in it. It was a 90 minute movie edition
• 30:36
  and there are bits that they took out to make this fit 90
• 30:41
  minutes. Wow, OK, more fun 90 minutes
• 30:45
  than hammers the mummy I must. Absolutely.
• 30:47
  But it does always get me because, you know, you get used
• 30:50
  to when you watch something a lot, you get used to the flow of
• 30:53
  it. And then you watch another
• 30:54
  version, you're like, what the hell is this?
• 30:58
  I must say, Stargrove's the place where it's shot.
• 31:01
  It's a wonderful location. It looks it looks perfect.
• 31:05
  They're back here for Seeds of Doom, aren't they?
• 31:08
  They're back here for something. I think it's so.
• 31:10
  Image of the Fendal. Image of the Fendal.
• 31:12
  No, that's you're right. Yeah, yeah.
• 31:13
  It's just as just as atmospheric there, a judicious use of blood
• 31:18
  there, which is unusual in Doctor Who.
• 31:21
  Just the imagery as well, Rob. Look, Sarah, just running up the
• 31:23
  stairs there. I know, dressed.
• 31:24
  Below. Yeah, yeah, that's Gothic.
• 31:27
  That's that's the Gothic, you know.
• 31:30
  Oh my God, these things scared me so much when I was a nipper.
• 31:33
  When the mummies coming pushing through the trees and then
• 31:37
  Sarah's underneath the log. Yes, yeah.
• 31:41
  And this is Thing. This is from Hammers to The
• 31:43
  Mummy. It's a lone mummy staggering
• 31:46
  through the English countryside, but.
• 31:50
  It took 40 minutes to get there. In the movie, we're 10 minutes
• 31:54
  into this thing. Yeah, exactly.
• 31:56
  Do you know a great thing about the design of the mummies as
• 31:59
  well is that obviously it's a mummy, but it does have a
• 32:03
  slightly out of space feel to it, doesn't it?
• 32:06
  The head paves in like that. Like a space helmet.
• 32:10
  Yeah, it's really clever. It's unique.
• 32:12
  It's not a, it's not a generic mummy.
• 32:14
  It's a, it's a, it's a mummy esque.
• 32:18
  It's definitely designed. It does have a technological
• 32:22
  element to it. This fella playing the mean, you
• 32:25
  know he turns up again in the Deadly Assassin.
• 32:27
  He's. He does, doesn't he?
• 32:28
  Yeah, he. Tries to murder the Doctor when
• 32:30
  he's in the Matrix. Yeah, Peter Mayock, he didn't do
• 32:33
  very much, I don't think. I've got a question for you, you
• 32:36
  know. Yeah.
• 32:37
  Should this be filmed at night? No, it's a.
• 32:42
  Horror movie, right? Surely normally they do this
• 32:44
  sort of thing at night? I I find it quite terrifying in
• 32:49
  the day, actually. Thanks very much.
• 32:51
  You know, Yeah. I do too, and I think the fact
• 32:54
  that everything's sort of exposed in the daytime.
• 32:58
  And you're visible. You can't.
• 32:59
  You can't hide in the shadows. You know you're exposed.
• 33:02
  Keep coming and I'll talk about it when when they are literally
• 33:05
  chasing after the poacher and they're just come in and come in
• 33:08
  and come in and he's getting more tired, he's faster but he's
• 33:11
  knackered so he's slowing down. And we are how many?
• 33:15
  We were 15 minutes in and visually we've got everything.
• 33:19
  We have all the scenes you remember and none of the scenes
• 33:22
  you don't from Hammer's The Mummy have happened already.
• 33:25
  Oh, he cherry picked the best scenes from from The Mummy.
• 33:33
  Oh, that really looks like a nasty wound.
• 33:35
  Oh, I love as well. In a minute, when Sutek recalls
• 33:38
  him back to the house, back to the Priory.
• 33:42
  It pubs into organ music, doesn't it?
• 33:44
  Yeah, yeah. It's, it makes you think what,
• 33:46
  what's what's the mechanics of this?
• 33:48
  How does it work? You know, it's quite
• 33:51
  fascinating. Well, it made me think, my God
• 33:53
  for the the gods to come in, get back to the house quake.
• 33:56
  Yeah, yeah. That's why I think I was
• 34:00
  convinced when I first watched this that you know when Scarman
• 34:03
  comes through in the sort of helmet at the end of episode
• 34:06
  one, that that was Sue Tech. Yeah, the, the metaphysics of
• 34:11
  the fact it's not Sutec, it's a messenger of Sutec.
• 34:14
  It doesn't explain any of this stuff.
• 34:16
  You're it's just, it's, it's incidental and you just have to
• 34:18
  kind of go with it and kind of you, you know that obviously
• 34:21
  there's some kind of organizational principle behind
• 34:25
  how Sutec operates, but you're, it's never shared with you.
• 34:28
  You witness it and that kind of makes it kind of more horror.
• 34:32
  It's cosmic horror. It's like we're not going to
• 34:34
  explain to you the metaphysical rules of how Sutec and his.
• 34:40
  Yeah. Yeah, yeah, So straight out of
• 34:42
  Lovecraft. Straight out of Lovecraft.
• 34:44
  And here we have his. And this is straight out of
• 34:47
  Hammer and the universal horrors before it.
• 34:49
  You've got the the befaced, suited, sinister Egyptian
• 34:54
  praying to a sarcophagus. Now here's the interesting thing
• 34:58
  with this, with this Doctor Who is that the mummies are just the
• 35:02
  robots. The main villain isn't a mummy.
• 35:05
  The main villain is actually Sutek, an actual Egyptian God,
• 35:10
  but an alien. But the gods are aliens.
• 35:12
  It's the it's the Eric von Daniken Chariots of the gods
• 35:15
  thing. It's the whole pyramids that
• 35:17
  were built by spacemen thing, but it's it's riffing on all the
• 35:23
  stuff from The Mummy. But it's doing something.
• 35:26
  It's going one step ahead. It's bringing the God in this
• 35:29
  time. I mean, like the the monster in
• 35:33
  the mummy was great, yeah, but sort of when you get used to it,
• 35:36
  you're like, OK, Mummy comes on, kills people.
• 35:38
  He mistakes that poor woman as the the dead Pharaoh.
• 35:43
  But you know, this just the stakes just keep getting higher.
• 35:46
  Doctor Who faces down a God? I mean, come on.
• 35:50
  And he's terrified. And because he's terrified, he's
• 35:53
  more distant and alien, and he's got much more of a cosmic
• 35:56
  viewpoint than ever before. And we haven't spoken about
• 35:59
  Michael Sheared yet. Michael Sheared gives one of the
• 36:03
  I think it's one of the best turns in Classic who because he
• 36:06
  is such a likable man. Yeah, and this is one of Sarah
• 36:11
  Jane's best moments ever. The Yes, sorry.
• 36:16
  Yeah. I try.
• 36:17
  She is. She is so good in this.
• 36:19
  She is so good in this. You see this Marconi scope here?
• 36:22
  Yeah, while I was in Chelmsford recently in the Museum of
• 36:25
  Chelmsford. That's where Marconi came from.
• 36:28
  The great Marconi. What would you call him?
• 36:34
  He was he was a inventor and businessman and.
• 36:38
  They had. Founder of the Marconi Company.
• 36:40
  All of his initial, all the technology that he built, and it
• 36:44
  looks gorgeous. It didn't quite look like this,
• 36:46
  but. That's because had Sutec not
• 36:49
  intervened and this all this happened, then Lawrence Scarman
• 36:53
  would have invented it's 40 years earlier.
• 36:57
  So human history has been changed by the intervention of
• 37:01
  Sutec. We've been held back by 40 years
• 37:05
  because Lawrence Scarman was killed.
• 37:07
  You know, sometimes I have the advantage of being ahead of you,
• 37:12
  normally behind you, but sometimes ahead of you.
• 37:15
  I've just reversed top maker's line there with Marcus Garman.
• 37:18
  I'm never ahead. Of you, I thought you were
• 37:21
  saying I'd press play before you did or something.
• 37:24
  It's a great line where he manages to compliment Lawrence
• 37:27
  and be extremely rude for him at the same time.
• 37:31
  Oh yes. Yes, yes.
• 37:33
  Oh I love tinkering her about with old tech doctor.
• 37:36
  Who? Oh actually Michael Shield.
• 37:38
  He's also in raids of Lost Ark as well as Victablian.
• 37:41
  He's got a tiny part as his part was mainly cut, but you see him
• 37:45
  in the background of one shot as EU boat captain once they've got
• 37:50
  to the Nazi base on the Greek island that Indy has lashed
• 37:54
  himself to the Periscope to to get to you know how.
• 37:58
  And he also plays Hitler in Last Crusade, but that's by the bike
• 38:01
  and. Bronson in Grange Hill.
• 38:03
  The most evil man of all. Yes.
• 38:04
  Yeah, yeah. You know when Toby Header calls
• 38:07
  himself the Michael Sheared of a hamster of a blunt pen knife?
• 38:10
  I The joke was Michael Sheared always would go to conventions,
• 38:14
  right? No matter who asked him, he'd
• 38:15
  always say yes. And that's what Toby does for
• 38:17
  me. I've put out the call when he
• 38:19
  comes. Well, I think Michael Sheared
• 38:21
  earns that spot in all those conventions because you just
• 38:24
  watch the roles he did across Doctor Who.
• 38:26
  They are so diverse. Murgrave in Castro, Valva, the
• 38:30
  Headmaster in Remembrance of the Daleks, the Doctor in Mind of
• 38:35
  Evil, the fellow he plays in the Ark.
• 38:38
  They're all really different roles.
• 38:41
  I mean, he's the the bad guy, isn't he?
• 38:42
  An invisible enemy as well. Famously his favorite Doctor Who
• 38:46
  story to film, but that might have something to do with Louise
• 38:48
  Jameson in a loincloth. And suddenly we have lots of
• 38:53
  mummies all of a sudden. And the Orkin music's raising
• 38:57
  the the volume here. My mum would always go.
• 38:59
  Would you turn that down? Yeah, well, the subtitles have
• 39:03
  just told me music reaches fever pitch.
• 39:05
  Beware Suitek. It's supposed to be sort of
• 39:08
  chaotic energy, isn't? It, yes, yeah.
• 39:11
  The gods are coming, Rob. Exactly.
• 39:13
  And suddenly the doctor knows the stakes.
• 39:17
  He was killed by Horus, God of lights.
• 39:21
  Yes, but Egyptology and Mars. Exactly, that's Eric von
• 39:26
  Daniken. That's why I always thought the
• 39:29
  Martian Sphinx photo taken by Viking 1 was an influence on
• 39:33
  this. It wasn't.
• 39:34
  This was prescient. This happened a year before.
• 39:37
  Well, we can talk about the actual mythology in episode 4
• 39:41
  because for reasons, but we will save that.
• 39:43
  Tom Baker saying the forces that are being summoned in that house
• 39:46
  are more terrifying and more dangerous than anything even I
• 39:49
  have faced. Yeah, yes, he sells all of that
• 39:53
  dialogue, doesn't he? Yeah, and that is that is why,
• 39:56
  as well as looking gorgeous and invoking all the it's a
• 39:58
  distillation of all the best bits you remember from Hammers
• 40:01
  the Mummy without having to watch Hammers the Mummy and be
• 40:04
  reminded that it's a slog. That's one of the main reasons I
• 40:08
  think this story is so well beloved.
• 40:11
  The atmosphere, the vibes and the stakes and just the the
• 40:16
  weight and sheer presence of Sutec.
• 40:18
  And here we go, the the black sarcophagus is becoming a very
• 40:23
  disco portal. Yeah, it looks like a sort of
• 40:26
  television war pride that I went to recently.
• 40:31
  And what we are about. To get is one of the most
• 40:34
  chilling cliffhangers they ever put.
• 40:36
  It's one of the greatest cliffhangers ever, but here we
• 40:39
  are again. The Namin, however, is right.
• 40:42
  The the his religion has turned out to be true.
• 40:47
  Yeah. And this figure, yeah, this
• 40:50
  figure is not Sutek. This figure is like there's like
• 40:53
  a an avatar sort of. It's the servant of Sutek.
• 40:57
  But what is it really? It's some kind of.
• 41:02
  I mean, I've realised he's only in a bin bag, but it looks like
• 41:04
  it's like black tar. Yeah, I don't know.
• 41:07
  And the burning, smoking. Rob, Stand.
• 41:13
  Yeah, look upon my face. And it is.
• 41:16
  It is the same mask design as the mummies.
• 41:19
  It's got the two things either side.
• 41:21
  It looks more like a space suit, doesn't it?
• 41:23
  Though Yeah, material. Is this the face of SU Tech?
• 41:30
  Oh boy. I'm going to make a reference
• 41:33
  now, and I do wonder if you'll be appalled.
• 41:37
  But I just, I can't get used to seeing this scene without it
• 41:40
  intercutting scenes of women, you know?
• 41:42
  Do you know what I'm talking about there?
• 41:48
  I I have a feeling I do, but yes.
• 41:51
  Rusty Davis put this scene in the first episode of Queer as
• 41:54
  Folk. Oh, oh, oh.
• 41:56
  Right. Yes, yes I do.
• 41:57
  Yes, yes, yes. Gotcha.
• 41:58
  So sorry, it's still hamster, you know.
• 42:03
  And that was the one of the, yeah, one of the greatest, one
• 42:06
  of the greatest cliffhangers of all time.
• 42:09
  I mean, that scares me as an adult.
• 42:12
  God knows what it did to me as a kid.
• 42:14
  Yeah, yeah. And it's episode 1 is pretty
• 42:19
  damn impeccable. This is that was just, that was
• 42:21
  just, you know, 24 minutes, 25 minutes of just brilliant Doctor
• 42:26
  Who. How to dry Robert Valentine
• 42:29
  episode 1 is pretty impeccable. You're suggesting that 2-3 and
• 42:33
  four may not be. Well, I'm just, I'm just just
• 42:36
  taking, I'm taking it as I see it, that's all.
• 42:38
  You know, one, one episode at a time.
• 42:40
  You know, I'm not, you know, not, I'm not casting aspersions
• 42:44
  on any future episodes yet. But yeah, so far, that was so
• 42:49
  far. That was excellent.
• 42:50
  I mean and. I'm very happy to be here.
• 42:52
  Comparing that to the movie that we watched, and I don't often
• 42:56
  say this about Classic Who that really moved.
• 42:59
  Like it was Egypt and then we were there, then we were meeting
• 43:02
  characters that know Scarman, and then people started dying
• 43:07
  and then they're on the run for their lives.
• 43:08
  And then the gods come and it's 25 minutes in.
• 43:12
  Yeah. And the the doctors and the and
• 43:14
  the doctors and the doctors let us know that these are the
• 43:16
  biggest stakes ever. Ever.
• 43:19
  So yeah. Wow, Do you fancy, you know,
• 43:21
  heading into Episode 2 and seeing how he deals with those
• 43:23
  stakes? I think that would be a very,
• 43:25
  very good idea indeed.