Latest / Skin Anarchy / E.399: Retrouvé Is Creating A Skin Health Legacy Powered By Science, Art And Beauty

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E.399: Retrouvé Is Creating A Skin Health Legacy Powered By Science, Art And Beauty · Skin Anarchy

• 0:31
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• 1:16
  SPEAKER_03: Hi guys, welcome back to Skincare Anarchy.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_03: This is Ekta, and I am very, very excited for this episode.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_03: It's been a long time in the making, and I think I have given every award that I could possibly think of to the brand already because I'm such a fan.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_03: And um, we were actually talking before the interview started.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um, the founder and I, and we were discussing how much I love coming across brands that are genuinely science-oriented and it shows in the results.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_03: So without further ado, I want to introduce you guys to the um co-founder of RetroVay Skincare, Jamie Heidinger.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome to the show.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_03: Jamie, I'm so excited to be hosting you.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's an honor to be here.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: I am very excited for this.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: And yes, we've both been uh long awaiting getting to speak, and I'm so grateful for your interest in Retrovey.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_02: And we're just thrilled that you're enjoying the products.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_03: No, I'm I'm very, very um just enamored by the whole line and the whole concept, really, Jamie.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you've just created something so beautiful here.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_03: So I want to dive into that, but I really want to learn about you first and learn about the the Retrove family and how it really all came to be.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_03: You know, um, if you could walk us down memory lane and tell us about your journey and just what led to you wanting to create a brand.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: Well, uh, first of all, I was born into it.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that was, you know, pretty much the the main thing was that I have always loved skincare, but it was really in my DNA.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: So developing skincare, I should say, was in my DNA because of my grandfather and my father and their history and heritage.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_02: So, yes, I was also very interested in taking care of my own skin, but I think I really gravitated toward wanting to do that because of just the interest that I had in skin health based on what I had learned observing my grandfather, who was a pharmacist and had uh purchased Keel since 1850.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_02: Well, we later called it Keel since 1851.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: At that time, it was Kiel's pharmacy.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_02: And then my father, who actually was a drug manufacturer.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: So for generations, my family had worked in pharmaceuticals and they later branched out into cosmetics.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_02: And my father had such extensive knowledge of topical pharmacology, having created Morse Laboratories, the drug manufacturing facility.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: And so, in homage to him, um, our name is actually Retrovey by Morse Laboratories, um, to just give a salute to him and to that history.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_02: But that's how I started in it.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember even as a young child, I would love to go to Keels.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_02: To me, that was like a playland, like Disneyland.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it was around the corner from my school, and I'd go after school and on the weekends, and I'd play at mixing fragrances and trying to make formulations and listening, and we had herbs and all kinds of things there.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: It was just incredible.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: So that's that was how I grew up.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I I loved it and end up staying in it.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_03: No, I love that.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_03: I love that you, you know, you you had that background.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_03: I think like, you know, um, it's so important to acknowledge that because, you know, when children, like when they're in situations where you let them play and really see complex things, I feel like you develop this kind of um, you know, childhood memory that turns into an appreciation and it turns into this, you know, understanding of um just I guess a concept or an idea.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I've seen it a lot.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_03: That's why I'm mentioning it.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_03: Like with science, for example, um, you know, I was in the lab very early, you know, and look where I am now.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_03: I'm still in the lab, you know.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, it's like you just with so many degrees in the meantime that you'll have.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_03: No, that's that's the stay in the lab.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_03: That's the stay in the lab.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, you're right.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_02: It is so important also to have a passion for what we do.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I think developing a passion, especially if it starts early on, um, is just a great way to assure that we'll be doing something that we love.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely, no, absolutely.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_03: And I and I really love how everything has been done with RetroVay.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_03: I'm, you know, one of the biggest things that really caught my eye, Jamie, and you know, I'm not even gonna lie, obviously the science is there, you know, the sophistication of everything, the from the packaging to the formulations is there, but the component of art, which is one of the pillars of the brand, that really drew me in because I'm a huge art lover.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_03: I love anything that has to do with expression of oneself and just, you know, anything that has to do with art, really.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_03: I've always really grown up around it.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_03: And I want you to speak to us on that component of the brand and how that really played into the overall vision you have for it.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_03: And um, yeah, just how you guys made that one of the pillars.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's very interesting.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't know that about you.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I think art and science are so related in so many ways.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_02: And for myself, I think firstly, there is an art to creating a formulation.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_02: It's not just about what ingredients we use and putting them in a pot and mixing it together.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you also have to find the art of how the formulation will feel, the texture of the product, how the products synergize together, how the ingredients affect one another.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_02: So there really is an art to it in addition to the science.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I was trying to bring that pillar into the creation of Retrovet, but for myself personally, I was also immersed in art from my mother's side.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_02: My grandfather um founded a museum.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_02: He was an art collector and well, actually, he was a fashion designer before that, but uh he started the Aldrich Museum of Contemporary Art in Connecticut.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: And my mother has been an artist uh for her entire life in different fields, and now at 92, she continues, she has a book coming out, and she has her collages and paintings in exhibitions all around the United States.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_02: So wow, pretty amazing.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: But I I really grew up with that, and and I agree with you that it can inform so many of the things that we do as well as enhance them.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_02: And so I felt that it also helps to influence the packaging that we use, the R, the lettering, how we wrote it, um, you know, really the whole feel of it, but also the idea of making people feel good through the experience of using it.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel just like when you see a painting that you love and it really resonates with you.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: That's sort of what we were trying to create with retrograde when you hold that bottle in your hand and how does it feel?
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_02: And the experience of luxuriating with the product should feel somewhat similar and pleasurable.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_02: So that's what we were going for.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_02: And then, of course, incorporating that with science and what is called beauty, and you had uh mentioned about you know the beauty aspect of the of the industry.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: I don't really love that word beauty.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's so subjective.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and it's so, you know, is one beautiful or not beautiful, and and beauty is in the eye of the beholder, of course.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_02: So I I don't love that term, but for lack of a better one, the idea of being in the beauty skincare industry and caring about the health of one's skin, how we look and feel, that was the the beauty pillar.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_03: And I love that, you know, you have really, really shown that.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I mean everything you just described, I well, you know, it shows in the brand.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_03: It really does, you know, from the the way that you receive it as a I mean, and I'm talking like as a consumer, right?
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_03: Because there's so much that goes into what makes us love a brand.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I have this conversation with so many different um people with with different backgrounds, you know, and we talk about what is it that draws a consumer into a brand, you know, what is it?
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_03: And the magic formula is just res just something that resonates with you.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_03: And I feel like, you know, for me as a consumer, like when I first got my hands on on the brand and the whole line, I immediately fell in love.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_03: And it was also, you know, I'm not gonna lie, it was because from the packaging, immediately it felt like, like you said, a piece of art.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_03: It felt like something to covet, something beautiful that I had now, you know, and it was like that experience that made me really even more curious.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_03: And then you start diving into the science and the things that really matter for us, and it's gonna help.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_03: And it's just like the whole package comes together, you know, and and that's a very special feeling for a consumer.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_03: That's what really, in my opinion, you know, that's what hooks somebody.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_03: That's bigger than marketing, that's bigger than, you know, just any of the other fluff stuff.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_03: It's the it's the quality.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_03: And so uh, yeah, I I really, really love how you've approached the brand.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's it's just a really great experience overall, I think, for consumers when they first get their hands.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_03: Even if it's just one product you purchase, you you get it in a beautiful packaging.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_03: It's it works the way you want it to work.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_03: It does what it's supposed to do for your skin.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_03: You're investing in your skin.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_03: It's just a wonderful um experience.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_03: So I love it.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_02: Well, thank you for saying that.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I agree with you so much.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we want utilizing retrovey to be a memorable experience that not only produces results in your skin, but that also is pleasurable.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: And that gets into a lot of the different philosophies that we have, but we really try to promote the idea of self-care and taking some time for yourself and feeling better.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, having good skin isn't just about what cream you use, it's about getting enough sleep.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_02: It's um, you know, physical, spiritual, all the different things that make us feel good, what we uh put in our bodies.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: So you mentioned investing in your skin.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: We think of it as investing in yourself also.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: So we really want to, you know, promote people to feel that this is a time that can help them, that's pleasurable, that they make for themselves.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_02: And so that was, you know, one of the tenets by which uh, you know, we did try to create retrovade to be in accord with, just as you say, so that it would be this special, we hope, experience in addition to providing the scientific results.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_03: Of course, no, of course.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's very important these days because, you know, as you know, the skincare markets are getting cluttered, they're just getting cluttered day by day, you know, and it's really for me as a scientist, you know, Jamie, I look at it and I say, I don't know why people are so confused, because if you just look at the simplicities of what your skin needs, you'll immediately find, you know, the good stuff and the bad stuff.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_03: That's really not what it comes down to for me.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, one of the processes that I went through because I fell in love with the line was I really looked up your ingredients and you guys just have wonderful ingredients.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, um, I can really go into it more for anyone who's curious out there because, you know, everything in the line is really formulated in a way that's healing.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_03: It's healing your skin, it's rejuvenating it from, you know, this idea of not immediate, like, you know, transitory results.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_03: It's more of a what can you do to make sure your skin is supported?
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_03: And what can we do to make sure that it's going in the direction it should go?
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, you know, any other part of your body, you have to nurture, you have to feed, you have to give it what it needs.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_03: And your skin is no different than that.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_03: And I love telling consumers that that reach out to us, listeners that reach out.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_03: I I always recommend products.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, you know, more than a peel, more than an active, I will recommend to you to use something that gives your skin the nutrients that it needs, that gives it the protection, you know, at night.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_03: Like, for example, one of my favorite products in the line that I wanted to mention is the intensive um moisturizer because it's a very luxurious, like a bomb-like feeling.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like, you know, it's liquid.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_03: And what it does for my skin is it creates this beautiful um, you know, barrier on top at night.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_03: So when I'm going to sleep and I've put on my serums and whatnot, I can put that on and it really locks everything in.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_03: But in addition, it's more it's giving nutrients, you know, it's putting in nutrients into my um actual cells on the surface.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_03: And that's what you want with good skincare.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_03: That's what you should expect from good skincare.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, I find that to be, you know, one of the biggest hallmarks for you guys is that your products, they really, really work.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I think I mentioned to you, I know been ranting here for a minute, but I want to also say to the listeners, I I remember I had emailed Jamie, or I think Jamie and I emailed somebody on your team, and I said, I think you guys' product can heal chemical burns.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_03: Like for real.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_03: Like for real.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_03: I I was like, oh my gosh, like this is amazing.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_03: Because I actually had a situation, right?
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_03: Like I was it was just around the time when you had sent me the products, and I was experiencing this on my skin.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_03: I was convinced, I was like, this is a chemical burn.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_03: And I started using retroving, and it just immediately I could feel my skin healing.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, it's there.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_03: The science is there, the proof is there, you know.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_02: Well, we love to talk about that, and thank you for saying that.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not allowed to say that about um, you know, the the healing part because then we would be considered a drug.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: So, and and being really transparent and um, you know, making sure that we explain things exactly as we are allowed to, and having that tenet of education is very important in retrovay.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: And that's something that you mentioned before about people getting very confused, and not everyone can be, you know, a chemist in reading labels, but there are a lot of things that we like to teach, such as, you know, in reading that the percentage of the ingredient starts from top to bottom.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_02: So if companies, for example, say they have, oh my gosh, so much vitamin C and it's the very last ingredient, and the first ingredient is, you know, aqua, water, and propylene glycol and da-da-da-da-da-da, then maybe there isn't that much in there.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, there are steps that I think people can take to kind of um, you know, protect themselves in the sense of making sure that they're getting what has been promised or what they think they're getting.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_02: But I think also it's important to say that it's not only the ingredients that we use, it's also ingredients that are not used.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_02: So that's a big part of it too.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: And that was part of my inspiration for creating retrovet was that after selling Kiel's, I couldn't really find what I was looking for.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_02: Even if I ended up liking something, I tried all different brands.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: I had for the first time in many years a lot of time, well, not a lot of time.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_02: I still had three young children under the age of eight, but you know, without running Keels and having the kids and traveling and all, I really did a deep dive and tried all different brands.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I would often find something that, oh, I really like this, but it had something else that I didn't want in it, use usually artificial coloration, for example, synthetic fragrance.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_02: And my view and Keel's view as well, and my father, there's absolutely no need for any of that in a product.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_02: It can be irritating and sensitizing, and even worse when we talk about um, you know, certain coloring agents.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_02: So it really doesn't belong in there.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's not necessary.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: And so that was, you know, one of the things and mineral oil and silicones and um, you know, talcs and various other ingredients that we wanted to stay away from, certain preservatives and all.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_02: So that was part of what informed also the choices that we made.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_02: I do want to say, too, if I may, that it's also not just the ingredients that we use or don't use, but it's if they actually get absorbed.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_02: And you mentioned before about nurturing and nourishing the skin.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I could not be in more agreement with you on that.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: And that is exactly what we attempt to do with our ingredient profile.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_02: But even if you have some heavier oils, it is also possible that those ingredients, when you use really fine quality oils, they can be absorbed into the skin.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_02: So they don't just lay on the surface of the skin.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: So now there's this, you know, talk about slugging with Vaseline and things like that.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_02: And there certainly is benefit to that.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_02: But when we use an ingredient like a mineral oil that is occlusive, it stays on the surface of the skin.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: It can help to trap in moisture, but it doesn't allow the absorption of the really fine quality ingredients that we want to get into the skin that can really benefit it.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_02: But in order to do that, we need a transport mechanism.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: So you need to find lipids, for example, um, that are going to uh be able to be absorbed, but also allow the skin to breathe.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_02: So we have our special blend of these kinds of ingredients based mostly or uh predominantly on vegan squalene.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: And why squalane is the transport mechanism?
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_02: That is because squalene is very similar to human sebum.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_02: And the face, the skin recognizes it and therefore it allows it to be absorbed.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so what we think of is the squalene is kind of like the bus that helps transport the passengers being the different ingredients into the skin.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_02: They've done um, you know, quite a few tests that show over the years that the squalene actually can be absorbed into the skin.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_02: So that's important too, because if you have all sorts of claims for ingredients, but they're not penetrating at all, then one won't get the maximal benefit.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_02: So sorry to go on about that, but I I love talking about ingredients and the science behind retrovey and the difference between retrovey and and other brands and why we do what we do.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_02: And it is a lot about what you said too, nourishing the skin.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_03: No, absolutely.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_03: And I love that you guys use squalin in that way because we all it's like, you know, it's not just about having a vehicle, it's also making sure that vehicle is not causing any kind of you know immunological reactions, right?
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like, you know, there's so many broad uh brands out there, which I'm not knocking any brands, you know.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_03: I know a lot of work goes into making a brand, but there's things that are being used utilized as vehicles that are actually they are um causing immune reactions when you put them on your skin.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_03: And that causes inflammation.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_03: It can lead to, you know, just even more problems.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_03: And it's not really the fault of anybody.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_03: It's more of just how technologically advanced have we really gotten, you know, as uh, you know, as an industry.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_03: And and I think that, you know, that's a very important topic to really, I think, consider as not only consumers, but also um anyone who's tuning in that's you know, you're an entrepreneur, you want to start your online.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, these are things to really consider is the kind of vehicles you will utilize because you know, vehicles are just as important as you reading on a bottle that's got vitamin C in it.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_03: You also have to know, you know, uh, like what is it coming in?
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_03: For example, right now.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: I know everyone's using like exosomes, you know, exosomes this, that, you know, and that's great.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_03: But it's like, you know, and and for everyone listening, I don't want to rant about exosomes, by the way, I can go into a both rant, but like I'd love to hear it.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_03: I love it.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_03: There's like little, there's like little basically what exosomes are is like they butt off of cells, and they're they're they're butting off of like um organelles in your cells, and they're little tiny balls that can hold, you know, certain amounts of like whether it's uh lipids or proteins or whatever you want, right, in them.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_03: And if you know, science is trying to like get behind this and they're trying to say, like, you know, exosomes are a great delivery mechanism, which they can be for certain other organs, you know, and diseases, like, for example, cancer therapies and such.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_03: But I just, I mean, in skincare, it makes me wonder because exosomes are actually very um, you know, if your skin is very reactive to things like that.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_03: They're not naturally going to just, you know, sit well with your skin.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_03: So like that's something that's like it's a good theory to have, but the application of that theory is where the real gold comes in here, you know, in terms of what is working and not.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_03: And I think, you know, Jamie, you made a great point about making sure that whatever it is that we are trying to incorporate through our skin routines isn't really getting in, you know, is it going through and getting to the layers that really need the support?
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, and that's where I find it to be uh just very, very intriguing how our industry is evolving, you know, because uh I'm not gonna lie, I know a lot of people are using science now as a buzzword, and it kind of bothers me, you know?
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_02: Oh yes, it it bothers me too.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_02: But the more that people um can educate themselves on what exactly like listening to podcasts like this and and learning, and I think you and I share a passion for really trying to, you know, tell the truth and and have transparency in the industry.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_02: So the more that we can all support that, the more people can protect themselves and also find what is going to be most effective for themselves more easily.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but you you brought up so many really important points.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_02: And first of all, if I may, I'd like to address the idea of time-tested ingredients versus newness.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_02: So there are lots of great innovations in the industry, as there have been over the years, and that's as it should be, and that is wonderful.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: And the industry continues to evolve, and there are new technologies and new discoveries of ingredients and all of that.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_02: So that's terrific.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_02: But new is not always synonymous with better, right?
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_02: And some new things are not great, they're just new.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so people, oh my gosh, you know, what's new?
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_02: What's new?
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_02: The media really likes to, you know, hear about newness.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_02: But there are time-tested ingredients, for example, that you know, we were using back in the Kiel's days or before, that still are just as effective as they were in that day.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_02: And being time-tested also, when you talk about safety, they can have long-term safety records that people can look up as well.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_02: And getting back to the delivery vehicles, and I couldn't agree with you more, because for retrové, I would say the science that distinguishes us the most from other lines is exactly that, the the delivery vehicles.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_02: Our products are all made to be compatible with the skin and bring ingredients deeper into the skin, but with safe vehicles, squalane, fatty acids, triglycerides, which are like 45% similar to sebum as well, super sterile esters, which is pharmaceutical grade lanolin that we use.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: And these lipids also help to balance the skin.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: And that's something that's you know very important as a tenet of retrue as well, is the idea of gentleness and balance and you know, not overdrying and taking things to extremes with the skin where it gets confused.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_02: Because we really want to promote the skin's own natural processes.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_03: Well, what I find to be, yeah, exactly, Jamie, and what I find to be so brilliant here is that, you know, squalene, our skin uses that, you know, we need that for healthy skin.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_03: We need lipids and triglycerides and all these great things that you mentioned.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, what's you know what's so interesting?
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_03: I actually wanted to mention this to you on the interview because I, for everyone listening, one of my favorite products, the whole line is phenomenal.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_03: It's all of my favorite, right?
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_03: But my one of my favorite products, it starts from the very beginning, and that's the cleanser in retrograde line.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_03: It is a the best bomb cleanser, Jamie.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know what magic you did, but that cleanser, oh my goodness, my skin is obsessed with it.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_03: It can't stand it when I use it like any other type of cleanser because it hates it because I don't need to double cleanse.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_03: It's like everything in one.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_03: That cleanser is so everyone listening, it's like a um, you know how any bomb cleanser is, right?
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's thicker, it's um, it's gonna get your makeup off and all of that, right?
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_03: But the way the the cleanser is in Rector Waseline is um, you know, it you pump it out, it's it's the same idea, you know, it's a thicker cleanser, but you don't really need to double cleanse.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_03: I don't, because once I rinse it off, my skin is so clean, all of my makeup is off, all of the sunscreen is off.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_03: And most importantly, my skin feels like a new canvas.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_03: Like it, I I don't know how to describe it any other way.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_03: It feels soft, hydrated, nourished, and like a full, fully new canvas for me to go on with the rest of my routine.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_03: And I just love that because, like you said, we don't need to, you know, keep on recreating the wheel, right?
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_03: We just need to do things right.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_03: And I feel like, you know, even with the first step, you guys have this amazing, you know, formulation that just really sets the stage for all of your products to sink in, do what they're supposed to do, sit the way they're supposed to sit.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_03: And that's huge.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_03: Most brands do not get that down.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_03: That's of you know, I don't I honestly tell PR companies, I'm like, don't send me the cleanser.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_03: Like, no, just don't send it.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_03: Just don't send it.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_02: Well, thank you so much for saying that and and uh you know, experiencing and understanding that because a lot of people think of cleansing as really stripping.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_02: And you don't have to completely strip your skin in order for it to be clean or to do what it's supposed to do and be the way that it's supposed to be.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_02: Again, we want to promote the natural balance of the skin and um, you know, processes of the skin.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not made to be stripped like with turpentine.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_02: You know, yes, your skin may look a little more glowing, if you will, or shiny when you completely uh erode the surface layers, but that isn't better for the skin in the long run.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_02: So we like to take more of a long-term approach rather than quick fix to look better that second.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_02: And part of that is and starts with, as you said, gentle yet effective cleansing.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_02: And interestingly, some people say, oh my gosh, well, you know, my skin is oily or so I don't want to use anything that's potentially moisturizing.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_02: And that's understandable, but oil also is very helpful to get through oil, which is why our oil-based cleanser, which is anhydrous, by the way, as a lot of our products are, they do not contain water because you don't need to pay, well, at least at this point, you don't need to pay to add water.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_02: So they're more concentrated and you just need a little bit.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_02: And some people actually like to leave it on for like 15 minutes or so as a moisturizing treatment.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_02: But even when skin is oilier, having oils in the product also helps to dissolve that.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_02: So um it's something that can work on many different skin types, but sometimes people whose skin is a little bit more oily, it takes a little while for their skin to kind of balance out when they stop overdrying it.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_02: Because the skin doesn't know what you're doing when you're over-drying it.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_02: Or let's say someone thinks, oh, I have pimples, I'm going to dry my skin, which is what most lines advocate.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_02: But the skin does all it knows is, oh my gosh, it's too dry, I gotta pump more oil.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_02: So it ends up producing even more because you're taking it further out of balance.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_02: So anyway, thank you for noticing all of that.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, you're so experienced in all of this, but it it is a unique product.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I I love that one.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_02: And that was, you know, again, all the anhydrous ones were my original ones and the most favorite.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_03: I love no, I really, really love it.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_03: And I and I completely agree with you.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_03: And you know what's what's actually very interesting is um, you know, I think retrovase is actually it's very, very ahead of its time in the sense of what exactly what you said, Jamie, which is this idea of paying for adding water in a formulation.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, we don't need that water, yes, we are 75% water or whatever the new number is, according to the CBC.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_03: But like, you know, it's it changes every day.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_03: I swear they changes every day.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_03: But um uh yeah, you know, we know that, but it's like, you know, your skin care products shouldn't have to be also, you know, just drenched in water.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_03: That's not the idea.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_03: And this is a very important, I think, chemistry concept for consumers to kind of wrap their head around, you know.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_02: Water actually dries the skin.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yes if you keep applying like swimming or being in a bathtub.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, that's that is the best way you could have put it.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_03: Water actually does dry out your skin, and it actually causes you to be more irritated.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_03: Like dryness, that dryness is gonna cause irritation.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_03: So I 100% agree.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_03: You don't need that on the top of your skin.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_03: And and the reason is because the top layer of your skin, as most people know, you know, it's dead.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_03: So if you keep adding water and like causing that process of evaporation to happen over and over again, those dry, dead skin cells are gonna get drier and drier and drier.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_03: That's that's just that's just how it works.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_03: And you don't need to over-exfoliate either.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_03: Because when you over-exfoliate, now you're causing damage to the new skin cells, which are coming up.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_03: So now they're gonna come up and be damaged while they're sitting on top of your skin.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like there's so many things here, you know what I mean, that we need to like really clarify for people because I see cleansers with obviously the water, right?
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_03: And then the other the other side of the equation is let's just pack it with active, you know, let's put glycolic in there, let's put the acids in there, you know what I mean?
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_03: Like let's just let's just put everything in there.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_03: I saw cleansers the other day, Jamie.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_03: You had retinol.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, why in the heck would you put retinol in a cleanser?
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_03: It's gonna wash off guys, you know.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_03: Like it was just the most, I mean, it's it's it's interesting to see how entrepreneurs are trying to keep up, you know what I mean, with the science.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_03: I know there's a lot out there, and I know that you know, papers come out, new news comes out, buzzwords come out, and we all want to hop on that wagon.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_03: But it's like with everything else, with every other industry, what I've noticed is what is good is gonna stay good for years to come, you know?
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_03: And and that's the thing that and you had mentioned Kiel's, I just want to say you had mentioned Kiel, and I wanted to tell you that your when I had my experience with Dr.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_03: Vayne was exactly similar to when I first tried Kiel's uh midnight recovery oil.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_03: It was life changing.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_03: It was life-changing.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I'm so glad to hear that.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_02: Well, yeah, I mean, you're an expert in this, you're a scientist, so you know it from the science side, but you also know it from trying it on your skin and seeing how your skin feels and and how your skin does.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_02: And you make so many really important points that I think get get overlooked.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_02: But the first thing I just wanted to address was about water.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why, because the water can also desiccate the skin.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, we need water, we need to drink water, and we do want a surface layer of water on the skin, but we want to seal it in and not have all the water evaporate, as you said.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_02: So we recommend moisturizing immediately after cleansing, bath, or shower to seal in the surface layer of moisture.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and preferably with the product that has a humectant or, you know, something that's not going to just soak in immediately, because then if you're not using any oil, as we mentioned before, then you're not getting that same sort of barrier protection and support.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yes, one of my big pet peeves also is overexfoliating.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_02: That's become so popular.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_02: And in particular, using physical um beads or you know, scrubbing agents, uh, you really can create little micro-tears on the skin.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_02: And you're just oftentimes, as you said, you know, doing something that is not helping the skin in the long run, even if in that moment it may look like shiny, shiny and new afterwards.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_02: So we recommend um, you know, exfoliating, much less we have our pads that we use so that we're not using physical scrub grains.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and we use a botanical base, which is um, you know, more gentle than many of the acids out there.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_02: It's a it's a fruit acid base.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_02: But what you're saying is so important about how many, what I was talking about before, less is more, one of our philosophies, is so many different ingredients in each product that get compounded, even if it's a good ingredient, let's say, you know, retinol or vitamin C, but if you're using, as was suggested, you know, in the last couple of years, like having 12 steps and 14 steps, can you imagine if each product is contained, even the cleanser is containing retinol or even vitamin C or other things or vitamin A for that matter?
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_02: How much our skin is having to tolerate and absorb?
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I think having so many different products and over-utilization and over-exfoliation really has contributed to the rise in skin irritation, skin allergies, people call it, you know, all that sort of thing, because the skin is just not, this isn't what our skin was made to undergo.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it's it's not necessary, but it's also not normal and natural to the skin.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_03: No, 100%.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_03: You are so spot on with your explanation of that, because you know, exfoliation, you know, the way I look at it too is it's like when you overexfoliate, it's like you're you're breaking into healthy cells.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_03: And when you break the barrier of healthy cells, what that does is create these the leakage of antigens, what we call antigens in science.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_03: And I mean, you know, as a lot of people know, you know, especially, I mean, Jamie, you know, like those antigens are gonna react with other things, like already, you know, present antibodies in your skin smill you.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_03: It's gonna cause a reaction, it's cause gonna cause inflammation.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_03: You know, when that feel or whatever it is you guys are using is starting to tingle a little too much.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_03: That's that's not a good thing.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_03: And that's where it's like, you know, I'm really gravitating towards this concept of let's focus on healthy skin rather than overexfoliated or constantly skin cycling, you know, you know, that's a buzz thing now on TikTok, is everyone's doing skin cycling.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, cool.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_03: I can see the benefits, but I think that there's more value in sticking to a regimen, sticking to a three-step, four-step routine, and really seeing it through.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_03: Your skin is gonna respond.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_03: That's how it works, guys.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I mean, I really, it's like a it's like a workout routine, right?
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_03: Like you're not gonna go to the gym for one day and then just do the most, you know, complicated, you know, workout and then be like, yeah, I'm gonna be amazing tomorrow.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_03: You know, no, that's not gonna work.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_03: You have to stick to it.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_03: You have to do a daily routine, but what you're picking for your routine is just as important as doing that.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_03: And that's where I feel like, you know, I just think retrograde, in my opinion, is it's in a category of its own with very few other brands that I've seen like that, because it's you've really got everything you need in one.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_03: And that, I think, in my opinion, is the next frontier for good skincare.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_03: People should be able to say, I picked this brand, I'm going to stick to it, and I'm gonna watch my results.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_03: That's where we need to get to, I feel like, as a consumer base, you know?
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_03: And so it's like by creating lines that are efficacious product after product, that's in, you know, that's truly doing service, I think, to consumers, you know, because we we need to stop this like, you know, running around looking for every new product that comes out.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_03: That's not helping.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_03: It's not helping anybody.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_03: So it it's very important.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_03: And I love that, you know, the line, it just it has everything you need.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_03: It's got the eye cream, it's got the cleanser, it's got the facial creams, it's got the serum that's very nourishing, you know, it's got the hand cream, which by the way is revolutionary.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, I'm gonna dive into the hand cream in a minute, but you know, you know what I mean.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's just it's got what you need.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_02: Well, firstly, I think what you're saying is so brilliant.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, you know, you are brilliant as a scientist and doctor and all the different degrees that you hold and your experience in really researching these things.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_02: But my goal is to try to translate some of this information in a way that the public will want to learn and understand to help themselves.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_02: And what you were saying before about the over-scrubbing, for example, what we want to do and what we try to do with retrovey is to fortify and not harm the protective skin barrier and the acid mantle.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I think a lot of people don't realize how important that is and how much that protects us inside as well as outside.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_02: Just like if your hands are so dry that you get little cracks and things, you've mentioned with the hand cream when we're all washing our hands and scrubbing and with COVID and everything, that's an entryway for bacteria, for all kinds of things, right?
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_02: So that acid mantle, the skin barrier, needs to be protected.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what's going to help us in the long term to have skin that ages, you know, as gracefully as possible.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I think too, the idea of so many ingredients, like more is better, as you mentioned, or more steps is better, or more products is better.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's not, it's not true because you can really do more with less.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes more is not always better and can lead to skin allergies, as you know, we were talking about before.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes I like to use the analogy of walking.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um so we all start by walking, right?
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_02: That's like one of the first things that we learn as a baby.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_02: And then later on, as we get into life, there are all these new activities we're supposed to spin and we're supposed to do, you know, CrossFit.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_02: And there's always like some new, I taught aerobics, you know, jumping up and down in in the 1980s when we first started all of that.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we called it aerobics, now they call it, you know, I guess fitness classes.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_02: But in any case, there was always some, you know, newfangled thing.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_02: And if you read the studies now, they come back to saying, look, if everybody just could walk like a half an hour a day, or challenge themselves with, you know, speed walking, maybe a little jogging.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_02: But walking is this thing that's tried and true that humans have been doing, you know, for thousands of years, that is actually still good for us.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not so fancy, it's not so new, it's not so exciting, doesn't look as compelling, maybe is you know, jumping up and down.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_02: But in the long term, if we walk every single day of our entire lives, we can really help and affect and improve our bodies and our health and so many other areas.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_02: So sometimes, as you said, it is the time-tested things that maybe aren't quite as sparkly that that really do work.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_02: And that's one of my frustrations in the industry, which is that back in the Kiel's days, you know, if we made a good product, then they would come.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, people knew Keels, obviously, retrovey is a is a newer line.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_02: Keels had been since 1851.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_02: But nowadays, with social media and all of the different things that we have that weren't available before, that people use as marketing agents and advertising and you know, videos and all that sort of thing that is shared, it really oftentimes becomes who has the best social media, not necessarily who has the best product.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I say that as someone who's not very good with social media myself, and I don't really, you know, use it that much or understand it.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_02: And and in our company, we're working, you know, hard to try to catch up in some of those ways because it's really necessary to do.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's impossible to compete now without having, you know, an Instagram presence or something like that.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's or at least very, very difficult.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_02: But what ends up happening is messages such as having water free products.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: That seems really something new.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_02: And that's something that's really buzzed about in social media right now.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_02: We were doing that already 10 years ago, but we weren't able really to own our messaging in some of these things in a way that has been co-opted by other newer companies that are just so much better at social media or have, you know, more to spend on advertising and all of that.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_02: But that's why I think, as you said, it's it's important to try to get through the hype and the hyperbole and just, you know, look at ingredients and understand these things.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_02: And then it makes it more clear what's actually working, even if it doesn't have an instantaneous result.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_02: We want to look at at least my goal is the long-term, the longevity of the skin, and to age as gracefully as possible.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_02: We call it pro-aging, if you will, or proactive aging.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but that's something that retrovey espouses and encourages as well, which is, you know, look at the long-term goal, the long game.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it's a marathon, right?
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_02: Not just it is.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_03: It is.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, you made such a good point.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_03: I am so glad you brought this up because I am so much on the same page in the same book as you about the social media um nonsense.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I completely am just so turned off these days.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not gonna lie, and there's no no hate to any brands out there, by the way.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_03: I love I love people who want to create things, but here's the thing you can't hype people up over pseudoscience.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, you need to stop, people need to stop doing that.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_03: Pseudoscience needs to stop taking over social media because that's what's happening.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_03: And what's happening as a result of that is that we're burying the brands that actually have the real science, not the pseudoscience.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_03: Like this is the real stuff that works.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_03: You know, Jamie, I could you not people have reached out to me and they're like, Ekta, you know, you're the top picks list that you've, you know, you've released, there's a lot of brands on there that, you know, I've seen them a lot, you know, they're not like brand new brands.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, exactly.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_03: And you know why they're in there?
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_03: Because they work.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_03: And that's my goal.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, I've I've tried to, I've explained that to people.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_03: It's like the goal of anything that we put out as like a list or like a, you know, a collection is to give you guys things that work.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_03: Because guess what?
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_03: Most of the stuff you see on TikTok, on social media, on Instagram reels, all of that hype around that brand new vitamin C that's quote unquote stabilized or that brand new AHA, BHA, tonic, it's gonna die off in a month, two months, three months.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_03: You know why?
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_03: Because people are gonna overuse it and they're gonna realize that it's not as beneficial as they thought it was.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_03: You know, science cannot ever be trumped by anything else.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_03: That's I really believe that if you have the science and it works and it's tried and true, it will outlive any trend, any hype, any BS that we put out there.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_03: And my real, truly, my hope is that what we're gonna eventually come to the point where now we're all of the people that are used utilizing the new social media like TikTok, they're gonna grow up a little bit more, you know, into their late 20s, whatever it may take, and then look at their skin and be like, oh my gosh, I've been doing all this stuff for so many years because TikTok recommended it or Instagram recommended it, but I'm still getting wrinkled and I'm still getting flood fluffed, you know, and or something's happening.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_03: I I don't want that for them, but I want them to understand that this is why you have to do your homework, this is why science matters, this is why understanding why the ingredient isn't there, why water isn't necessary as the first ingredient.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_03: Those kind of things are only gonna be understood if you experience it.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_03: And that's why I always tell people you need to try a line.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_03: I can sit here all day and tell you guys something is good.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_03: But if you don't go out there and be your own scientist, your own, you know, principal investigator and try something for yourself, you're never gonna see what I'm talking about, what I'm you know, raving about, you know, on my podcast.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and and that really leads me to Jamie.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_03: I actually really love that you have travel size options with retro-ray because I think that's so important for people to be able to just try things these days that like people don't get that option, you know what I mean, very often.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_03: So I really like that you guys did that.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_02: And we encourage people to sample.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_02: We have lots of even smaller samples as well.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, at Kiel's, I was known as the queen of sampling because I was one of the first to start that before.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_02: You know, everybody has these little paquettes and the sachets and things nowadays, but it didn't used to be that way.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_02: And that was one of the first things that we started at Kiel's because we felt you should always try before you buy.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_02: And oftentimes we would try to talk people out of buying things without trying them first, because even if it works for your Aunt Hilda or your sister or your cousin, it doesn't mean that it's the right product for you.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_02: We have to look at each person's, you know, individual skin and how it reacts and make sure it's right for them.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_02: So that's why we encourage patch testing, which we started years ago at Kiel's explaining and expounding that that's really something good.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_02: You want to try the product before you use it and see if it works properly for that individual.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_02: But I think what you're doing is such a great service to people, and I hope it is going to help to transform the industry in such a positive and productive way by helping to clear up a lot of the misconceptions of quote science, or as you said, you know, pseudoscience.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_02: There is still so much hyperbole and no one really does anything about it.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_02: So if uh, for example, people try on something new, like I think we're gonna say XYZ and let's see if we get caught, you know, and and sometimes a company gets caught and they have to retract it.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_02: But most often now, for example, you know, the FDA is so busy with um products that say that they cure COVID or whatever.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so you know, there's so much leeway in the cosmetic industry to make these kinds of claims.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_02: And what happens when one does that is, you know, let's just say, oh, our product uh reverses aging, it reverses gravity, right?
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_02: It removes all your wrinkles.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_02: So then people believe that, and then it sets the bar higher and higher.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_02: So if a company who wants to have the integrity of, you know, telling the truth, or at least what we're allowed to say as a cosmetic, if indeed there were a product that reverses aging or removes all wrinkles, we do have Retin A, for example, but that is a prescription product.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_02: And Retin A, by the way, is one of the few things that's ever been proven actually to, you know, really diminish wrinkles, right?
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_02: But it would be if there's a physiological change on the skin, the product is going to be a prescription.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's not a cosmetic and is not in the skincare, you know, realm of creams and things.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_02: And that doesn't mean, again, that maybe products can't do more than we say that they do.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_02: I think with retrovay also, like you gave the example of having had this experience of it's healing burns.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not allowed to say that because then again, it would be a drug, not a cosmetic.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't mean that these don't do more, but we also need to stay within the lines, I think, of, you know, saying things that really are possible and explaining them.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, we can't defy gravity or create a no-gravity situation by by using a cream.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, likewise, people have this idea that you just kind of smear stem cells on yourself that likely are dead by the time they get in there anyway, right?
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_02: And you're just gonna have this infusion of like new baby stem cells in your body and grow all this new skin.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_02: So, yes, we can help to promote the body's natural processes of regeneration and support those and help the cells, if you will, to repair themselves.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_02: But I think people get this idea that they're meant to get through advertising that instead of the appearance of a wrinkle is improved, what most people read into that is that the wrinkle is removed, right?
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_02: Likewise with uh a lot of the stem cell claims and things, you know, and and having apple stem cells in a product, which, you know, we in fact use ourselves, it's it's okay.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's a good thing.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_02: There can be some helpfulness and resiliency and and some other things, but it's not the same as what people are being led to believe or imagine as you're getting an infusion of new stem cells.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, that's such a great point because again, with the buzzwords, you know, and it's like also, you know, making uh one ingredient on an on an inky list the hero ingredient.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_03: I hate when people do that because it's like, you know, first of all, this is no hero.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_03: Second of all, the fact that it's your hero ingredient is really troubling, you know, because that it's not a hero to begin with.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, I get very irritated when I see that because I'm like, you know, hyaluronic acid should never be a hero ingredient, you know, it should never be something that you're just you know, just so excited about.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_03: That should be a given, you know, like it's it we need to push the envelope, is really what I'm trying to say.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_03: We need to get to the point of making people realize that our three-step routine for our routine is mandatory.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_03: Just like skincare uh sorry, sunscreen is mandatory, so is a nourishing, well-balanced three-step to four-step routine.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_03: I cannot stress that enough.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_03: Everything I've seen, all the brands I've interviewed, all the skincare I've tried, there's one thing that underlines all of it, and that is consistency and the need of consistency.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_03: And again, with you know, it really comes back to that medical principle of how do you really promote patient compliance?
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_03: How do you really promote this idea of people are going to stick to what you give them, you know, and and I really urge everybody listening, that's why I had mentioned, you know, retrovedia's got beautiful sample sets, especially with the holidays coming up.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_03: This is the time to really try the line, really check it out.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I'm I'm telling you, if you invest in a product or a line that is going to give you that those, you know, those steps you need on a daily basis, you're gonna see more improvement in your skin in 30 days than if you tried every new product that comes out.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_03: I just I can I can guarantee it.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_03: You know, so I with that said, Jamie, I just want to say, you know, I am beyond a fan of the line.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I know, I know you know because I've literally raved about it.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_03: My mother is the biggest fan.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_03: I I forgot to mention to everybody listening, my mom is now one of the biggest fans of retrograde.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_03: That's why everybody she is she raves about the line every day.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_03: And the hand cream has literally saved her hands.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_03: Like she has arthritis.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't tell you this, Jamie.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_03: She has arthritis and she's been using the hand cream religiously, and she says her pain is pretty much gone.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_03: And so, yeah, we can't say these things because I know the FDA's got, you know, uh yellow tape everywhere, but I'm just trying to stress that there are there's a lot of potential in some of the ingredients that are being utilized in the right way.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_03: And so, you know, I I'm just a huge fan overall.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_02: Well, thank you so much.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_02: And to your mother, we're so grateful.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm just humbled by your words and and lovely praise and and thank you so much.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_02: And especially with your background and expertise and what an amazing professional and respected, celebrated person in the industry you are.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it means so much.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that's the thing too.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like I have so much respect for you.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_02: And so your opinion is very important to us.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_02: And and we love to hear your feedback.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_02: I think the more that we can again educate, give correct factual information in in a way that can, you know, be easily understood and utilized, the more of a service that we're doing for our clients and our customers.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I wanted just to make a comment on hero ingredient because I agree with you, that's a big buzzword in the press as well.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_02: So people always, or the press, will call and say, Oh, well, we want to know, you know, what what is your newest product?
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, everything you know needs to be new.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_02: Where's newness?
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_02: And what is your hero ingredient or what hero ingredient is in this product?
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_02: And we try to explain that oftentimes the best results come from the synergy of the different ingredients.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_02: So, for example, if we want to talk about brightening the skin, if you use CoQ10 together with vitamin C and niacinamide, you're going to get a better result than any of them for brightening on their own in general.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_02: So it's important to have a background in compounding and in the chemistry of not only skin, but of the products and how ingredients work and all of that.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_02: We talked about, you know, the delivery system, but like, you know, vitamin C, vitamin E, ferulic acid, these are ingredients that enhance one another and enhance the workings of them.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_02: So if you just have a serum that's, you know, only vitamin C or niacinamide serum, I mean, then you need 10 products for what you could have, like in a retrové product that has vitamin D, you know, so many different vitamins, pomegranate, rice, white tea, etc., in our signature blend that we have in most all of the products.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_02: So again, it's not just having, like you said, one ingredient.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's having a formulation that has advantages that can be absorbed by the skin.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_02: And this is something that can sometimes take a little bit of time to happen, as you said.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, we don't break things overnight with our bodies and generally, I mean, other than a broken leg or something, um, but we can't repair them overnight either often.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_02: So that's why such an important principle behind retrovey is the idea of preventive maintenance.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_02: And we're really founded on that because your skin doesn't age overnight, right?
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_02: You don't break your skin necessarily overnight, other than, you know, being in a fire or something like that.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_02: And so we want to instill habits, as you were saying, that are consistent over a lifetime.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_02: And then you can make small tweaks here and there.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_02: That's so much easier than not taking care of ourselves, going out in the sun all the time, without sunscreen, without using a hat, using all sorts of acids constantly compounded on our skin and all of that, and you know, prescription products out in the sun, et cetera.
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_02: And then suddenly saying, Oh my gosh, I'm 40 and and I have so many wrinkles, or you know, what can I do about it now?
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_02: So it's much better to go step by step.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_02: My dad used to say inch by inch, anything's a cinch.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I I love that philosophy because in so many things, whether it's walking, whether it's skincare, nutrition, all of those things, it really is the daily step that we do that may not be so glamorous, may not seem so exciting and compelling, but with consistency over a lifetime can make an enormous difference, not only in our health, but in the quality and look of our skin.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_03: No, absolutely.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_03: And that's such a brilliant point, Jamie, that you made about this the synergy.
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I couldn't agree more.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_03: I think that those so well said because, you know, it it's not just synergy, right?
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_03: It's also about like um the right amount to in a formulation.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's such an important point because for a while there, there are a lot of brands that were selling things like individually.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_03: Like they were like, here's hyaluronic acid, here's P-Jain, here's you know, urea, here's this.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_03: It's like we don't have a chemistry lab at home.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we can't put all this together.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_03: What are we doing here?
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_02: So that's well, you're supposed to use like 14 different products.
• 1:01:02
  unknown: Yeah.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you're supposed to use one of each of those serums, and it's a way to get people to to buy more products, but it doesn't have to be that, you know, uh niacinamide is in a separate serum from a vitamin C, for example, right?
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_02: So but that way, you know, you get you can get people oftentimes to buy more products and and have more steps and all of that.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_02: But it is also possible to multitask in a curated collection that is streamlined, as you mentioned, with just a few steps that people can and will do consistently.
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like again, it's better to walk a half an hour a day, every day for your entire life, than to run 20 miles every Saturday or twice a month or something, right?
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_02: In terms of your overall longevity of your, you know, muscles and all of that.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_02: We need to do these things on almost a, you know, a daily basis in order to have the optimal effects for our body.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_02: And the other thing about ingredients too is what we try to do is have ingredients that are harmonious with the skin.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_02: In other words, similar to what the skin already recognizes, similar to Sebum.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_02: So things that, you know, are already components that are there, that we're not introducing these things, like as you had mentioned before, with um, you know, uh certain, I won't mention, you know, ingredients, but certain things that really can, you know, kind of shock the skin, it doesn't know what it is or or how to deal with it, that's not necessarily always going to result in a positive.
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, I agree.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_03: And and you know, what's really, really interesting is that you know how people are saying, oh, less is more, less is more, minimalism, all this stuff.
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_03: I get it.
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_03: But you know where that applies, you guys?
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_03: Formulas.
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_03: That's where that applies.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_03: Because if you exactly what Jamie said, when you're when you're making a formula for anything and you've got these multiple different ingredients and they're working together, sometimes all you need is like just a little bit, just to give you like a reference, like a little drop of something compared to a whole bunch of it.
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you don't need one-to-one-to-one ratios of any everything.
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_03: You need like, you know, very little of a certain ingredient, but more of another one.
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_03: So that's where less is more actually is applicable, rather than just saying, oh, I'm just gonna wipe out my entire skincare cabinet and not use anything.
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_03: No, that's not that's not the point there.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_03: The point is, you know, go and it, you know, I I've been literally saying this since day one of the podcast.
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_03: You guys, we have to focus on dosing.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_03: We have to start understanding what the word means and really looking for brands that are like, you know, Jamie, you described, like, you know, CoQ10, you know, working with the different molecules that are there, like, you know, whether it's brightening or whether that's um anti-inflammatory, we have to start looking at these interactions and understanding more and really, really getting there, you know, as a consumer base.
• 1:04:07
  SPEAKER_03: So I really encourage everybody, you know, if there's one thing you're gonna buy this holiday season, make sure that you're investing in a really good skincare system.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_03: Retroway is literally the best example I can give you if you look at my topics.
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_03: They're in every category basically for a reason.
• 1:04:25
  SPEAKER_03: It's because every product works the way it's supposed to work.
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_03: So I really, really highly suggest it.
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_03: If you're a little, you know, on the fence, try their their travel kits or their gifting sets.
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_03: It's a great option to just get started, you know, and get that routine going.
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_03: And once you're there, you're gonna start noticing your skin is more hydrated, your skin is it's nourished, you know, it's acting like a nourished organ.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_03: And that's where you want to get to.
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, that's that's really where I'm coming from when I say, you know, this is one of my favorite lines across the board, across industry, you know, because of that consistency.
• 1:05:00
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, Jamie, thank you so much.
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_03: This has been so lovely.
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_03: You're amazing.
• 1:05:04
  SPEAKER_03: And by the way, for everyone listening, we're gonna be doing a masterclass with Retro Ray.
• 1:05:08
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm super excited about that.
• 1:05:11
  SPEAKER_02: So much.
• 1:05:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's such a pleasure and an honor to get to speak with you and just to hear your knowledge and share in this discussion.
• 1:05:18
  SPEAKER_02: I have enjoyed it so much and we're so grateful for your time and attention and your very kind words.
• 1:05:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we have enormous respect for you and what you are doing in the industry and with skincare anarchy.
• 1:05:31
  SPEAKER_02: It's such an important and overdue movement that we really welcome to you know, tell the truth and educate and really help everyone.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_02: You mentioned dosing because skincare really can be serious.
• 1:05:45
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we know that a lot of these ingredients can get into the bloodstream, right?
• 1:05:49
  SPEAKER_02: So we want to make sure that we are using things, you know, in a safe way and that are safe and as you mentioned, you know, streamlined and not also sometimes ingredients can counteract each other.
• 1:06:03
  SPEAKER_02: So if you have compounders who don't have experience, that can be a pitfall as well.
• 1:06:09
  SPEAKER_02: But you do such a great, such a great thing for your listeners, and um I'm hoping that more and more people will start to entertain some of these ideas that may sound a little bit different from what they're hearing and seeing um on social media, especially, but that really are scientifically backed and based, validated, proven, time tested.
• 1:06:35
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you again.
• 1:06:36
  SPEAKER_02: I I salute you and applaud you and am very grateful for this special time.
• 1:06:42
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much, Jamie.
• 1:06:43
  SPEAKER_03: That means the world to me coming from you and for everyone listening, you know.
• 1:06:47
  SPEAKER_03: I like I said, check out the line.
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna be tagging everything in the concept art for this episode.
• 1:06:53
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I really encourage you guys, if there's one line you invest in this year, make it retrovey.
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_03: Really try it and let us know, you know, uh send in emails, comments, whatever you have.
• 1:07:05
  SPEAKER_03: If you have any questions for Jamie's team, please send them as well.
• 1:07:08
  SPEAKER_03: We will pass them along and just stay tuned for more knowledge to come about the line, about the brand.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, I'm very excited to be working um very closely with this brand and making you guys understand why it works so wonderfully, every product.
• 1:07:25
  SPEAKER_03: So just stay tuned for that and happy holidays to all of our listeners.
• 1:07:29
  SPEAKER_03: Um, we appreciate you so much.
• 1:07:31
  SPEAKER_03: So thank you so much, and I'll be back next time.
• 1:07:34
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 1:07:35
  SPEAKER_02: Bye-bye.
• 1:07:36
  SPEAKER_03: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
• 1:07:39
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• 1:07:44
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• 1:07:46
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• 1:07:49
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• 1:07:52
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• 1:08:01
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• 1:08:27
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• 1:08:38
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• 1:08:43
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