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Katie spoke with Police Association President Paul McCue about police force attrition · 360 with Katie Woolf

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  Speaker 1: Now it is a topic and an issue that we've
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  Speaker 1: been talking about for quite some time. The attrition rates
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  Speaker 1: within the Northern Territory Police Force. Well, we've found that
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  Speaker 1: they've nearly doubled. That's according to the organization's annual report.
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  Speaker 1: The report was tabled in Parliament last week and showed
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  Speaker 1: that attrition hit eight point five to one percent in
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  Speaker 1: twenty twenty to twenty twenty one. That's up from four
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  Speaker 1: point five to three percent the previous year. Now joining
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  Speaker 1: me on the line is the president of the Police Association,
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  Speaker 1: Paul McHugh. Good morning to you, Paul.
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  Speaker 2: Good morning Katy.
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  Speaker 1: Here are you going? Not too bad? Paul? I guess
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  Speaker 1: these numbers are probably not overly surprising. The Police Association
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  Speaker 1: did recently conduct a survey which showed that there are
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  Speaker 1: a number of officers either leaving the force or looking
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  Speaker 1: to leave the force. But what do these attrition rates
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  Speaker 1: mean from your perspective?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, look, got no real surprises, as you point out
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  Speaker 2: in the in the annual reportum, and we've known for
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  Speaker 2: some time that the attrition has spiked over the last
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  Speaker 2: year or so and it's doubled essentially from the year before.
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  Speaker 2: And I think it's probably around double the national average
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  Speaker 2: at the moment. But obviously what it means is we
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  Speaker 2: just got to keep recruiting. We've got to keep employing
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  Speaker 2: police to come in and make sure we're covering off
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  Speaker 2: on that attrition rate. And I know the commissioners work
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  Speaker 2: hard on that. I know there's significant recruiting underway, and
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  Speaker 2: it has been for some time, and I'm pretty confident
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  Speaker 2: into the next twelve months or so, there's a significant
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  Speaker 2: recruitment campaign. But of course what it means is is,
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  Speaker 2: you know, significant experience walking out the door, and we
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  Speaker 2: want to really try and make sure where we're doing
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  Speaker 2: everything we can to stop that because whilst somebody resigns,
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  Speaker 2: it does take a lot of time to train, recruit,
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  Speaker 2: and deploy a new officer and then develop them into
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  Speaker 2: various roles in the organization. So certainly, certainly from our perspective,
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  Speaker 2: you know that the attrition rate is concerning. We know
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  Speaker 2: that for a fact, we've known it for some time.
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  Speaker 2: But we also know there is a heck of a
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  Speaker 2: lot of recruiting underway and obviously a lot of opportunities
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  Speaker 2: for people out there. Police officer.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I she put it out there, you know,
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  Speaker 1: obviously it's that lack of experience or the losing of
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  Speaker 1: the experience, which does have a big impact, you know, Paul,
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  Speaker 1: I guess when you hear numbers like attrition rays hitting
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  Speaker 1: eight point five one percent for a lot of people,
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  Speaker 1: you know, it'll sort of go over their heads to
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  Speaker 1: some degree. But when you're talking about sort of boots
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  Speaker 1: on the ground, how many officers is that?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, last year, just over one hundred and forty officers
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  Speaker 2: I guess separated from the organization, whither through resignation, dismissal,
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  Speaker 2: or retirement. So it's a lot of numbers. We're talking
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  Speaker 2: nearly ten percent of the workforce. But as I said,
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  Speaker 2: the recruiting came in and obviously there was quite a
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  Speaker 2: number of recruits during that same period, but it does
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  Speaker 2: take Obviously somebody resigns, they can only give two weeks
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  Speaker 2: notice and essentially then it could take six to twelve
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  Speaker 2: months to obviously replace that individual. So that's essentially what
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  Speaker 2: it means, Katie, And of course, you know, in terms
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  Speaker 2: of experience, we do know a lot of those experienced
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  Speaker 2: boots are walking out between sort of six and ten
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  Speaker 2: years of service and they've been given a lot of
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  Speaker 2: development in that time. One of the other positives the
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  Speaker 2: Commissioner has done a course is some ongoing development and
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  Speaker 2: the detective pathways and other sections within the agency which
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  Speaker 2: has really helped provide opportunities to current staff.
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  Speaker 1: So, Paul, would you say at this point in time,
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  Speaker 1: I mean, from what you've just said, then it does
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  Speaker 1: sound as though the commissioners obviously identified that this is
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  Speaker 1: an issue and that there is quite a bit of
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  Speaker 1: work going on within the force to not only replace
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  Speaker 1: those officers that are leaving, but try to map out
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  Speaker 1: some pathways for those officers which are already part of
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  Speaker 1: the police force. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Look, that's right, And obviously, you know, we don't want
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  Speaker 2: people leaving, and obviously when people request an accident of view,
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  Speaker 2: we want to make sure they're being contacted and obviously
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  Speaker 2: questions are being asked as to why they're leaving or
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  Speaker 2: if they can get anything we can be done to
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  Speaker 2: stop them leaving. But of course if they do leave,
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  Speaker 2: I'm certainly where the commissioners are on top of making
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  Speaker 2: sure those numbers are covered off. We've seen that in
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  Speaker 2: the figures through the annual report. We know there's been
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  Speaker 2: a significant boost at the constable rank because obviously that's
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  Speaker 2: the rank generally that comes in once somebody resigns. So
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  Speaker 2: you know, we know that's happening, and we know there's
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  Speaker 2: obviously a lot of opportunities for people to become police,
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  Speaker 2: but we really want to do everything we can to
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  Speaker 2: slow that attrition ray down. I think it's a benefit
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  Speaker 2: across the board.
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  Speaker 1: And Paul, when you talk about why officers are leaving,
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  Speaker 1: I know that my understanding is that there isn't Is
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  Speaker 1: there a formal sort of interview process in terms of
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  Speaker 1: when somebody does separate from the organization, in terms of
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  Speaker 1: trying to work out exactly why they are leaving.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I do believe they are obviously given the
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  Speaker 2: opportunity to undertake an exit interview with the agency, and
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  Speaker 2: some obviously take that up and some don't. Some people
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  Speaker 2: just want to want to move on to another career.
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  Speaker 2: But what we do want to make sure is happening
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  Speaker 2: is if somebody has identified that lot speak and provide
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  Speaker 2: reasons that they are being contacted, those reasons are being
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  Speaker 2: mapped out and obviously for two reasons. One deceiver is
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  Speaker 2: anything can be done to keep them, but secondly, to
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  Speaker 2: really understand the true reasons while people are leaving and
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  Speaker 2: just to make sure that things are being put in
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  Speaker 2: place to try and avoid that in the future.
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  Speaker 1: Well, and we hear a lot from the Police Minister
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  Speaker 1: that the real reason that that officers are leaving in
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  Speaker 1: droves is because there is such competitive sort of rates
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  Speaker 1: into state and such competitive recruitment campaigns happening into state.
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  Speaker 1: From your perspective, though, is that the case.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, obviously, you know we do have some excellent
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  Speaker 2: officers here in the NT. We do know police forces
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  Speaker 2: like the Australian Federal Police, you know Victoria tas made.
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  Speaker 2: We know there's been active recruitment campaigns under way, and
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  Speaker 2: we know Queensland will be heavily recruiting obviously in the
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  Speaker 2: next year or so. So it is a competitive market.
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  Speaker 2: We have to remain strong here in terms of what
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  Speaker 2: we're providing for our officers and the support and everything
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  Speaker 2: that they need. We know, you know, one of the
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  Speaker 2: things that's been a big I guess spanner in the
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  Speaker 2: works for every police forces COVID and the responsibilities police
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  Speaker 2: are being given. You couldn't predict what that might want
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  Speaker 2: require and I know that's had some impact on people
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  Speaker 2: moving onto other careers. Outside of police, but of course
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  Speaker 2: we are competitive and other police forces are actively recruiting,
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  Speaker 2: so you know, we want to make sure if you
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  Speaker 2: want to be a police officer, you want to be
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  Speaker 2: a police officer here in the NT not elsewhere, and
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  Speaker 2: if we can do everything we can do to make
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  Speaker 2: that happen, and that should be undertaken, Paul.
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  Speaker 1: One of the things that we hear very loudly and
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  Speaker 1: clearly on the text line. We also hear it on
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  Speaker 1: the phone line and through the station generally, is that
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  Speaker 1: one of the real issues within the force at the moment,
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  Speaker 1: and I know we can't go into much detail about
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  Speaker 1: this is the treatment of Zach Rolf. Obviously that case
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  Speaker 1: is underway, so there's much that we cannot say. But
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  Speaker 1: is this having an impact on our force in terms
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  Speaker 1: of people maybe not feeling as supported as they'd like to.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, obviously it was one of the reasons in our
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  Speaker 2: survey some people indicated why they are looking to leave.
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  Speaker 2: But of course it is before the courts. It's you
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  Speaker 2: know that this week will be back before the High
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  Speaker 2: Court and the matter is still unresolved, so obviously we
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  Speaker 2: need to let that take its course. It's difficult for
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  Speaker 2: a lot of people because it isn't resolved at this point,
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  Speaker 2: so it's very difficult to talk about. But certainly it's
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  Speaker 2: had some sort of an impact. But that's all we
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  Speaker 2: can really comment on at that stage. I know.
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  Speaker 1: One of the other things that a lot of a
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  Speaker 1: lot of Territorians wonder if it's having an impact on
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  Speaker 1: the police force is some of the issues that we've
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  Speaker 1: got with repeat offenders and youth offenders and having to
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  Speaker 1: deal with that each and every day. Is that something
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  Speaker 1: that's ever raised by members.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, look, obviously it is. It sometimes thrills like a
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  Speaker 2: revolving door. I mean, that's not anything new. I mean, sadly,
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  Speaker 2: I think from our perspective, as a lot of officers feel,
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  Speaker 2: you know, we're very much at the end of the line.
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  Speaker 2: Once people come into police custody or to the attention
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  Speaker 2: of police on a regular basis, we're right at the
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  Speaker 2: end of the queue and there's a lot, a whole
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  Speaker 2: lot of work way before them from other agencies or
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  Speaker 2: through the family environment, or whatever the case may be
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  Speaker 2: that needs to be done to avoid that happening, and
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  Speaker 2: our police are doing an incredibly good job. Police at
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  Speaker 2: all ranks are working really, really hard to do the
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  Speaker 2: best they can. The legislation that's in places out of
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  Speaker 2: their hands. They can only operate within it. But certainly
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  Speaker 2: we're keen and we'll be doing that in the near future.
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  Speaker 2: Get some feedback on some of those legslive changes that
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  Speaker 2: have come into place, whether it's youth or alcohol, to
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  Speaker 2: see what impact that might have had on the front line.
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  Speaker 2: But as I've said, very much at the end of
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  Speaker 2: the queue and we only do what we can do.
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  Speaker 2: But that feedback will be provided through to the Minister's
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  Speaker 2: office in terms of how it's changed.
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  Speaker 1: Well, I'll be very interested to find out more when
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  Speaker 1: that feedback is received. Paul Mcue anything else we should
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  Speaker 1: be aware of this morning, O, Katie.
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  Speaker 2: I think it's just you know, obviously everyone's working really hard.
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  Speaker 2: Everyone's doing an incredibly good job, and we know frontline resourcing,
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  Speaker 2: whether it be police and nurses, doctors and other frontline
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  Speaker 2: health people are all working their backsides off to keep
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  Speaker 2: us safe and we need to make sure we thank
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  Speaker 2: them every day for that.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. Has there been much insight at this point in
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  Speaker 1: time into exactly how you know? We know that the
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  Speaker 1: vaccine mandate obviously isn't too far away in terms of
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  Speaker 1: being implemented. Has there been much insight in terms of
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  Speaker 1: how the force is going to sort of be managing
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  Speaker 1: and making sure that people are vaccinated or what kind
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  Speaker 1: of role is going to fall on their shoulders.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's an interesting one because obviously it's a bit
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  Speaker 2: of an unknown at this stage. There'll be some compliance requirements,
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  Speaker 2: no doubt, and I'm sure the Commission would be fully aware,
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  Speaker 2: being the territory control, of what sort of impact that
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  Speaker 2: might have on our offices. But we do know COVID
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  Speaker 2: generally has had an enormous impact across the board and
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  Speaker 2: continues to do in terms of our resource and capability.
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  Speaker 2: So that deadline is fast looming, and certainly we've had
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  Speaker 2: some regular discussions with the Commission's representatives about that and
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  Speaker 2: we'll continue to do so right up to the day
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  Speaker 2: and beyond.
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  Speaker 1: Well. Police Association President Paul Mchue. Always good to catch
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  Speaker 1: up with you. Thanks so much for your time this morning.
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  Speaker 2: Good on your thanks Coatie.
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  Speaker 1: Thank you