Latest / Crafted Connections / EP 41: Micro-Movements and Joy-Driven Motivation with Erika Petrelli Bayh

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EP 41: Micro-Movements and Joy-Driven Motivation with Erika Petrelli Bayh · Crafted Connections

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, welcome to Crafted Connections.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Kayla Calhoon, and this is a podcast all about storytelling and building genuine community.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: Here we'll dive into the art of storytelling, unpack strategies for making meaningful connections, and hear from incredible humans who are using their story to create impact.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: So grab your favorite beverage, settle in, and let's craft some connections.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, welcome back to Crafted Connections.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Kenny Calhoun, and this episode is a fresh one, y'all.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: Crafted Connections is an opportunity for me to revel, to soak up, to just talk to anyone I want to all about their story.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: In my early days of working for myself, I built my business around coffee meetings and am frankly obsessed with just like interrogating people about their stories.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so selfishly I get to do that at Crafted Connections.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes I'll bring you a solo episode where I talk about, you know, tips on how to tell better stories or tips on, you know, how to show up and live in your story a little bit more.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: And the interesting thing about this interview is Erica and I kind of did that together for this episode.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: This episode features Erica Patrelli Bye.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: She and I met also at the same conference as our guest last week, Andrea Dodson.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: And we kind of just hit it off in relation to story and couldn't really stop talking.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: We could really only talk for 10 minutes because she had to head off to another engagement, and we dug right in.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: Right, we dug right in and we do it today as well.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: So she'll tell you a lot about herself.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: But I think the timing of this episode is perfect.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think this like early to mid-December time is a time where we're taking stock.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: How did the year go?
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: What do I want next year?
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: And Erica and I talk a lot about things like productive struggle, things like self-limiting beliefs.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: We also talk about when you don't feel like doing it, when you don't feel like making progress, when you honestly are maybe beaten down a little bit by life, how to kind of like to set those like little baby steps.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: We get into it, but we're not even we're not even talking small home tasks.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: She uses a great example of just sitting up on the couch.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's been a hard year for a lot of people.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: I I've felt in in my conversations with people that they've we're all we're all being pretty mean to ourselves, and I think micro macro can get pretty intense with that.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so you know, I think this is a great, great, great, great conversation to just remind yourself that you're doing your best and a little bit of inspiration on what you can do action-wise to get yourself feeling a little bit better, and also like mindset-wise.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: I don't need to tell you all about it because we talk about it.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: So please, please enjoy everything Erica shares.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so grateful I had her on the pod, and I think you will be too.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: So enjoy, enjoy, enjoy.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: Erica, thank you for being on Crafted Connections.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: We barely know each other, but I feel like we really know each other, and I'm so excited to get to know you better.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: And let's just start off with introducing you to the people.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: Can you give me a little bit about you, a few sentences, what have you?
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, sounds wonderful.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: How to how to sum up a life in a few sentences, right?
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's and the people that I spend time with always question this question, and I get it because there's so much to life.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_03: We start to stammer, right?
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_03: Like, uh uh I'm a person that lives.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I have I have limbs and a soul.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: So good, so good.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: I love it, I love it.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_03: The quickest summary of me at kind of in the professional sphere is that I live in the realm of speaker, coach, facilitator.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_03: So my existence right now is of the freelance variety.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_03: So I have the great honor of getting to work with a lot of different clients and a lot of different industries.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_03: So really connecting with humans in a whole bunch of different capacities.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_03: And my sort of core source material is in the arena of social and emotional intelligence.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_03: So, how are we elevating our own selves to show up as the best version of us while also elevating our teams to show up as the best version of them, which then elevates our company to be its best version.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_03: So to me, that source of social and emotional intelligence has ripples that are endless.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I couldn't help, but I absolutely did write social and emotional intelligence down based on like everything that you like sent my way, everything that you, your presence on the interwebs, right?
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: And then what I also noticed, whether it was in the intake form or just somewhere on your like your LinkedIn, was motivation, right?
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm actually having one of those weeks where like yesterday in particular, I was just like the motivation wasn't there.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: I've I recently have very much gotten into cycle syncing, so that's also a part of that, right?
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm trying to like attune to that, but also like not beat myself up as a human being.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: So can we just talk about emotional intelligence, social well-being, and also motivation in you know, association with that?
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_03: You know what's fascinating is I in the same kind of vein of like, what do you do?
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_03: And where people stammer and go, I don't know.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_03: What I've realized recently is everything for me comes back to joy and the idea of how do I curate and tend to joy as something that I don't just get, like it doesn't just, it's not like the weather where it's it's sunny today or it's rainy today, and I don't have any control.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_03: I very much have control because it's how I'm looking at the day or the things in my day.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_03: And I think a lot of my conversations do come in that flash of motivation, but in the authentic way, not in the you know, slap a smiley face sticker on it way, but motivation that actually feels resonant to our soul, which can be quiet and it can be small and it and it can be gentle, or it can be a dance party, but really this idea of how to sit next to a person and really think about how we're thinking about the situation or the day or our life in that chapter, it's so deeply important to me, and probably the joy is the biggest.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_03: What's the thing?
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_03: The ricochet is the thing that comes back, like it's the boomerang.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_03: That's the word I'm looking for.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_03: The joy is the thing that the more I I am able to sit in conversation with others about joy, I receive it, you know.
• 6:52
  unknown: Yeah.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: It it almost feels like you see joy as the linchpin to like keep motivation.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: And and I also I think the the thing too to go to the word motivation, I definitely think of immediately the you know, the the motivational posters in elementary school, right?
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: And that's not necessarily it's not one definition fits all.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: And and I love that you have found like a source or like like a word that you have a very beautiful definition for yourself.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I don't I don't want to meet someone who has a bad, like a negative definition of joy, right?
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: But still, like, but I love that you've you've got this word that like can kind of like be this foundation and then and then also for your people, right?
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: As you have those conversations.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: And actually walk me through what those conversations like how does how do you go from like you're having a conversation with someone, something comes up, and then you find yourself in the conversation of joy?
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: Can you kind of walk me through that?
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_03: Well, first I have to sort of tell myself in this, I recognize something about me.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_03: People will in try, you know, we we try to categorize people because our brains want order and so they want to understand.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_03: And the best way to do that is to put people in a box on a shelf and a so we try to make nice neat categories, which humans don't fall into nice neat categories, but people will try to say, like, oh, you're a life coach or oh, you're a motivational speaker.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm always like, no, no, no, no.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_03: When the truth is, yes, yes, of course I am those things.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's yes, and yes, and yes, and yes, and versus like, shut it down, stop like you're and what you're trying to shut down is like, don't put me in that box.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_03: Well, and what I realize, I'm trying to, I'm like, yes, but not in the way that you're thinking about it, because I know already you're thinking negatively or you're thinking like you're minimizing or diminishing in that way, which is based probably all the way back to those elementary school motivational posters.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_03: So there's probably something much more deep-rooted there.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_03: But the idea is like, yes, yes, I actually would, if you need to put me in a box, you could put me in either of those because that is true.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_03: And please allow me space and time to to pull at the layers of what that means.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_03: And so to your question, I lately have been very fascinated by the study of positive psychology.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_03: So with positive psychology, Dr.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_03: Martin Seligman, I just love this.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_03: It kind of how it came to be was his understanding of traditional therapy, right?
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_03: Takes what's broken and tries to bring it to the baseline of fine for humans.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_03: So, like, what's the baseline level of fine, which is not thriving, it's really just surviving okay.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_03: Traditionally, therapy was like if something is a person is broken in spirit or heart, we're gonna try to get them to the baseline of find.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_03: And that is absolutely necessary and needed.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_03: But what what he started to realize, well, what about all the stuff above the line of find?
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_03: Isn't there importance in tending to getting us from surviving to thriving and flourishing?
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_03: And so positive psychology was born in the 90s out of this idea of we're not dismissing the other, we're adding this part above the line.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_03: And a lot of the studies and research or the scientists and researchers that really took hold of this and started to explore through surveys and trainings and and all of the ways that you explore this, is that there's so many things that there's so much power that our brain has in choosing our reality.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_03: There's a thing called the expectancy theory, which is basically it's you know, the fancy way of saying what you believe you will find, what you believe to be true will become true.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that that ties back to the is it the RAS reticular activation system in your brain and like how like, you know, because it goes back to what you're talking about with like trying to put things and categorize them so your brain can be like, there's so much to process.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: How do I process less?
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, how do I make sense of it?
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so then, you know, if you're expecting something, I love, I don't know if you've heard of Dr.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: Tara Swart, but she talks about like looking for hearts, like heart shapes as like a practice of like that like system kind of thing.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: And so like be like, I'm looking for things that are heart-shaped.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so then you drive by and you see a leaf or you see like a rock, or like, and I love, love, love that.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: I want to back up to what you're talking about though with positive psychology.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I literally like in my own life right now, I'm I just returned going back to therapy after I, you know, I had therapy from like age 19 to 25-ish.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: And then around like 26, 27, she went hard into coaching, right?
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: Because like life was like serving me, right?
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: It was good.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, but I also need to challenge myself a little bit further, right?
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: And coaching was so lovely for that.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: And then probably like a week or two ago, my therapist and I were just talking about like the difference between therapy and coaching and like what so I would I'm curious on on your take and experience if you're willing to speak to that, of course, right?
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: Because there's a whole thing.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I will I just to validate what you just said, I think it is interesting that therapy in the way that we understand it really does help, like I said, helps repair the broken parts and and helps us find our way oftentimes back to a state of being able to survive, to function, to, you know.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_03: So it really is a gentle container where we can heal.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_03: And the idea of your therapist switching from sort of therapist to coach does speak to positive psychology because the coach is somebody that's really cheering you on to what's more, what's next, approaching with strategies.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think that's actually how kudos to your therapist for that and and you for taking that journey.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_03: And then also understanding when you might need to get back into repair mode.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: And that was what I think was so interesting to me is like I was like, you know, you look at something and you're like, okay, you're like, well, but coaching's working, coaching's working, and then maybe something happens and you're like, ooh, and and so I just I love that this conversation came up because it is so fascinating.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what does it look like?
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes having both because certain areas of your life are feeling so lovely, but you want to like push the limit a little bit more, and other areas you're like, oh, we need to maybe process that situation.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I just I just love that.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_03: Well, and I appreciate too the both, you know, I just over and over, I feel like I'm constantly having those kinds of conversations where I'm either reminding myself or I'm getting the chance to nudge somebody else into remembering that it's life is rarely this or that.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_03: I can only be that or this, you know, that it's so much more often both and.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_03: And so the idea of figuring out in this part of my life, I feel like I'm killing it.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_03: And I actually am gonna be the coach to others.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_03: In this part of my life, I'm holding on by the thinnest of threads, and I need to rally my community for support, you know, that just to recognize that it's it's layered and it's nuanced and there's not a quick, easy fix for anything.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: 100%, 100%.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: And that's exactly where I wanted, I wanted to ask you questions along these lines because you're you're messaging so like you're messaging through like your website and your LinkedIn and and just like what I've consumed of of your content is a beautiful message of the contradictions of life.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: The a few that I like noticed was uh you you had a Substack article called Greatness in the Glitch.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: You had uh, you know, a video called Productive Struggle, which I I think is uh, you know, maybe a corporate buzzword that I'm not super aware of, but it's still like it's still very contradictory.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: And it's also very interesting to see that like what you share and are not shying away from is the like those hard, like contra and the fact that it can be both and it can be it can be hard and easy.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: It can, you know, and so I would love to hear more on your curiosities around that.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_03: A pause on productive struggle, it's a interesting and fantastic academic approach that has been popular recently.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_03: So for school, a school age child, the idea of productive struggle, I feel I could be wrong about this, but I feel like it originated in math classes, you know, because the idea is I'm trying to learn how to solve a problem and I don't know how to do it.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_03: So a teacher or a parent or a guardian or a person who feels a sense of responsibility might see that struggle and immediately want to go in and fix and help and give the answer and advise.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_03: And productive struggle invites us to say, there's actually so much power in the struggle itself.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_03: And it's knowing the balance of how long that struggle stays productive.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_03: And then when the struggle tips over into paralysis and fear and non-productive, right?
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_03: There's a fine line.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_03: Like, if I'm in struggle for too long, I'm gonna eventually self-destruct.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and that's where like what came up for me, you know, as someone who doesn't lead a huge number of people.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: I have in the past, but in this chapter, I'm not really.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'll I'll work with contractors, right?
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: But you were talking about it in a leadership sense, but I was like, but there's also a very internal sense of recognizing when you're having productive struggle, and then you shared about unproductive struggle, uh, about how like it can start being harmful.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: You could start saying harsh things, and then you're not, you're spinning your wheels.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then that goes right back to our conversation about you know, coaching and therapy and like the different spaces that those can hold.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: But continue because it was so it's so layered, it's so wonderful.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, oh, I cannot wait till I get to be a leader again.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm leaning, right?
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: But like in the sense of like, oh, I'm excited to build a team again, which is something that I'm very much recovering from.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: But that's the thing, right?
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: To like to hear you talk about that.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, ooh, okay, I see you, Erica.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_03: It's a fantastic leadership challenge to know how long to let your team sit in discomfort as they try to.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_03: Because it's uncomfortable for you as a leader, too.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_03: Especially if you know or think you know the answer or the solution.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, or you like to control things.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_03: You're like, I, as the leader, it is my responsibility to just get on in there, not realizing that the space of productive struggle creates stronger teams, stronger individuals, strengthens problem-solving skills, strengthens our willingness to take risks.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_03: You know, students and humans that are able to live in productive struggle in a safe way are more willing to try new things and to experiment.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_03: And that idea of like failure is the only path to success.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_03: If we cut off the ability for failure, then we also are cutting off the ability for success.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_03: But I love your reminder that we need to do that for ourselves.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_03: So I need to be self-aware enough to the first part of it, I need to be self-aware enough to say, okay, I'm struggling right now.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_03: This is going to be teaching me a healthy and hearty amount of problem solving and risk taking, and I'm learning and to give myself that pet talk, but then to also be aware when it's been so long that I'm starting to shut down and having the wherewithal to reach out and ask for help in that moment.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_03: Because in the container of the classroom, the teacher needs to know that.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_03: The teacher needs to say, okay, it's been long enough.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna go in and offer some advice or redirect, or I'm gonna come in to show them they're not alone and it's okay.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_03: If I'm alone in this, I need to be my own teacher in that and say, it's been too long, I need to reach out for help.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_03: And that's hard for me, and I think hard for a lot of us to ask for help.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: And we don't think about it, right?
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where, you know, and I've I've been a solopreneur for, you know, over nine years now.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so it is, it's like you you do kind of have to live in that space, right?
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: Of like leading yourself, which is why your girl called out motivation as soon as she saw it on your I was just like, ooh, you gotta be the one that gives yourself the pep talk, right?
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: But um, but but all to say, like, I'm like, ooh, that is such a cool concept, and not even a concept, like a practice, like a leadership technique that like is so necessary.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: And and I love how you've brought it into the like, you know, thinking about childhood development spaces as well.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: I am not yet a parent, but I have lots of parent friends and and just their experience of like, you know, not jumping in to do things for the kids.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's like because you, you know, when you sign up to be a teacher, you're like, you know, you're gonna be leading this class, but I don't know if like like I didn't really think about oh yeah, parenting is like you're leading these little ones into like being a human, which is one of the hardest things you can do.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_03: Seriously.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_03: I was just having a conversation.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_03: I was I had the great pleasure of doing a sort of training conversation with a family-run business.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like generations of families, which is such a fantastic and different nuance of leadership and the layer of team dynamics when it's family.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, you don't and you don't know this about me, but my partner's parents own uh own a shop, right?
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: So like so I've seen the dynamics there, right?
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's it gets very complicated very fast and it's a tale as old as time.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I could imagine what you're experiencing there.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_03: Well, absolutely, because you know, all the leadership trainings that we might have, we have to pair with just indescribable complexity of family dynamics and then still figure out how to navigate through.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_03: But in this particular conversation, I was talking with it's the mom and the young adult son, and that difficulty of the mom of letting him learn and make mistakes on the job, as opposed to just quickly fixing.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_03: Because again, as a parent, to your point, we want to just be like, I want the best for you.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_03: So doesn't that mean I'm gonna alleviate all obstacles?
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_03: When in fact, that actually is ultimately doing them a disservice because then they're sort of paralyzed with the fear of I don't know how to navigate this on my own.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know how to navigate even picking up the phone and calling somebody who can help me with an appointment.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_03: I don't even know because I've never had to struggle through the awkwardness of that moment, you know.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and I also think there's the extra layer of, you know, what you're talking about with this like family-owned businesses.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: There's that layer of the parent not only is like a parent to this child, but there's also like the the identity as a business owner, business leader in their business, right?
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: So like there's a level of like you create this business so it has its own version of like being like a creation of yours, and you you want to see that succeed too.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: And then you're like, but I also don't want, I don't want everybody to fail.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: So like how do you and like and those different identities?
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: Ooh.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: And it goes back to like hearing you talk about this stuff.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just like, and then I think that goes to like the curiosities of like facing these dynamics, like you seem almost like intrigued and excited, and like that's like maybe you squeezing the juice out of life is exploring these like contradictions and these ways of so maybe speak more about those in general.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad we don't.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Double clicked on honestly for my own journey, productive struggle.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: She's moving forward.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: Watch out 2026.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think 2025's been the year of productive struggle.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_03: Just I just uh before we leave that, just the reminder it's a you know, there is a tipping point that struggle, we're not meant to stay in struggle alone.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: Which is why, like, thank you, 2025, for your productive struggle.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_03: Let's now let's move into some supportive uh what's the next stage or whatever.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_03: Supportive some something?
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_03: We'll make up a supportive, I don't know what our second word there is.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, supportive something.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_03: It's just the reminder that we're we are not meant to stay in struggle alone.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_03: That's not the intention of productive struggle.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's part of growth.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: I loved, I heard a podcast about this, gosh, like four years ago, where she talked about when you're growing and like the next level of growth.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a video game.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: You don't like you know, you beat the boss on the level level one, you're in level two, and you're like, you're stumbling, right?
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: You're stumbling, like you just keep failing, and you're like, and that means you leveled up, right?
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: So like struggle means that you've leveled up and it's it's a good sign, even though it sucks.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_03: And all of this stuff is so much easier said than done.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_03: But so for me, it's about intention every day and reminding myself.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_03: One of my favorite, I have so many favorite quotes, but Frederick Buchner said, This is the world, beautiful and terrible things will happen.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_03: Do not be afraid.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_03: And this idea that beautiful and terrible things happen sometimes simultaneously.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_03: Oftentimes in our life we're holding beautiful things in one hand and terrible things in the other hand, and just not saying, like, what is that what does that mean that's wrong?
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm gonna focus only on despair and dismay and what's wrong, but really just kind of holding the beauty that actually is in all of it.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_03: It's to me, it's just there's not an easy, well, here's how I think about contradictions, and therefore it's a piece of cake.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_03: It's really just the the daily reminder of I choose how to look at this and I choose where to focus, and I just honor the fact that life is filled with these these darknesses and lights.
• 24:12
  unknown: Yeah.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_03: It's never just one.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_03: It's never just one.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: Hey y'all.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know I love telling stories, gathering stories, and finding a way to help people connect their story with the people that will get it.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what my story strategy sessions are all about.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: So over at Calhoun Creative Consulting, my strategic storytelling firm, we do one-on-one and or facilitated workshops in relation to really honing in the strategy around your story.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's a bit of messaging, meets content creation, meets storytelling, and then how do we put that out in the world?
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: How do we show up regularly?
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: There's a bit of mindset work around it, right?
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: To actually tell your story, whether you're launching something new or trying to rework your brand or just feeling a little foggy on how to communicate with your people.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: This is how to get clear.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: We'll dig into things like your narrative, how to uncover what matters most, maybe map out a few content pillars while we're at it.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: You'll also get a recording of our session so you can revisit the conversation anytime you like.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: Let's shape a story that actually feels like you.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: So book yours today.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: There is a link in the show notes.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: And hey, while you're at it, use the code podcast, all caps, P-O-D-C-A-S-T for 25% off your session.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: I would be honored to spend time with you and suss out your story.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: Let's dive back into the episode, shall we?
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: The first question I thought of when I was thinking about our conversation is from the name of your business, The Extraordinary in You.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very curious how you define extraordinary because what a beautiful word.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what a beautiful two words that are put together.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: But I would love to hear your because like to what you pick as like the representation of the work you do and the like the mission you have in the world is, I always think is so reflective of like of what we believe.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm just very curious about, you know, you didn't choose that word on accident.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't like you were like in the dictionary and like closing your eyes, pointing to a word kind of thing.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: So so tell me more about the word extraordinary.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it's extraordinary has been a word that has tugged at me for a long time.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_03: So many years ago, I was able with my old organization to publish what I call a reflective journal.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_03: So it's a book that you can buy that's just filled with stories.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_03: Back when we used to call them blog posts, I would just write stories.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_03: And there are stories about my young at the time kids and old college stories and whatever they are.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_03: But it's called On Wings and Whimsy, Finding the Extraordinary Within the Ordinary.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_03: So that was the first time when Extraordinary called me specifically.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_03: And what it was at that moment, which is what I think it still resonates as today, is that within what looks like a very ordinary day or a very ordinary life or a very ordinary person, there is so much more than we are giving credit for or allowing to ignite within us.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_03: So extraordinary is sort of the best version of myself.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_03: So the extraordinary in you is the best version.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's helping you shine a light on what's contained already within you that is extraordinary and maybe just giving name to it, maybe loving it a little bit more.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_03: And the I love the finding the heart shape thing.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_03: That's an example of extraordinary to me.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_03: Because it's for me, it's almost like refocusing your lens and noticing with awe and wonder the world that we live in, the universe that is contained within us, and really noticing.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_03: So I think maybe that's the way I would say it is extraordinary as noticing.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: Cool.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: No, I love that.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: That's a really fun take.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: Do you feel like you've always had that like inkling to notice, or what was kind of your journey to allowing the best version to exist?
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: Or you know, or seeking and noticing the best version of your day, of your moments, what have you?
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_03: We could probably study this for a lifetime to figure out the the origin story.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_03: I don't I don't know that, but I I can tell you these sort of three chapters, right?
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_03: Which is let's chapter it up.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_03: Chapter one is there, I don't know where the origin story is, but it it is kind of my default setting for as long as I can remember.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_03: And really being even before I was intentional about it, trying to bring light and levity, so light, lightness, lightness to a heavy situation, and light as in light in the darkness, you know.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_03: So that was kind of my default setting.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_03: And I always found great joy in that kind of energy.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_03: And then there was a chapter recently where all of my own light turned off, and it was only darkness, and there was no extraordinary to be found anywhere.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_03: For me, that took the shape of alcohol addiction.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_03: So I and then there's a lot of other things layered in.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_03: You know, there's the stories that happen in life.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_03: That was kind of the vehicle for turning off the lights, right?
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_03: And so in that chapter, there was nothing, there was nothing to be found that was anything that I talk about now.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_03: So then coming out on the other side of it, now more than six years in recovery and sobriety and reclaiming and redefining, it's better than it ever was because it's intentional in a way that it never was, authentic in a deeper way than it ever was.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_03: And really what was kind of in my early years, like, oh, this is just kind of my personality or this is just who I am, has become in my now in my sort of advanced journey of life, has become, no, this is the unique gift that I offer the world.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's the part of yourself that you invest in.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, you practice that muscle and you you put it out there, you know.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: Some days, I mean, from my experience, some days it's like, can I today?
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: And then you're like, again, it goes back to what you said earlier.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: It is a choice to then like look at it and you're like, okay, what do I want to bring to the world today?
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: What do I want to feel today?
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_01: And how can I, how can I create that for myself as as close as possible?
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you you might not hit it out of the park, but if you feel just a little better.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_03: And the thing I think people where they get stuck is like, does this mean I'm supposed to feel happy or feel motivated or feel like I want to have a dance party every single day?
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_03: And no, of course not.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_03: But if I'm grounded and anchored in my purpose, whatever that is, then if I'm fueling that every day, then it does shift my outlook.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_03: Now, I've started to say recently, we have to be more daring in the way we speak about our value and our contribution to the world.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_03: And so I didn't, I certainly am not the first person that has said this, but uh what I've been starting to try to say recently for myself is when I don't, when I shrink back from opportunity, I am leaving an Erica-shaped hole because I didn't offer what the invitation was for me to offer.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't show up in the space that I was meant to show up in because of self-doubt or because of whatever.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_03: I leave an Erica-shaped hole behind because only I could fill that space, because only I am me.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_03: And so, same with, you know, you leave a Caitlin-shaped hole, any place that you shrink from the invitation to show up as your best self.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's the kind of way that we need to think about ourselves.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_03: And and that's extraordinary too, is like it's gonna look differently for everyone, but but are you filling the hole that is left in the world that's meant for you?
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_03: But only that's meant for you.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_03: It's only yours to fill.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, you're right.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like nobody else could fill it because you are, you know, and you know, we got the special sauce for this moment.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: I know everybody's got that special sauce, and that's always that that is why I am obsessed with story, is why I started this podcast.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: Because like I do believe everyone's special, right?
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: But not in the like pat everybody on the back, special snowflake, but it's like, no, no, no, like you're here, you know.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: After some some of my own like darkness experiences, right?
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: I found I was still waking up, you know, and I'm like, okay, so what's the point?
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like, if that's the case, like if I'm still waking up, there's still something I gotta do, you know.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: So what am I gonna do about it?
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: And easier said than done, right?
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: Easier said than done.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: Totes, totes, goats.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I mean, that goes back to daily practice.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of folks will connect with exactly what you're saying.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like, there was no uh, you know, light to be found during, you know, that chapter of my life, and then how it is so intentional and so much more clear and so much more appreciated after the fact.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: What would you say to someone who is in that that dark place, right?
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like how would you because I remember myself, like it was, I would argue like late 2023.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: I was like going through it, and I was just like, nobody talks about how they actually, you know, get out, you know, like they're always like A to B success story, yay.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what does that look like in?
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: I was dying and now I'm perfect.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm good.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: It just happened.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, I have real purpose now, you know?
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, okay, well, when you can't feel the purpose, what are you doing that muck, you know?
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_03: It's so, you know, they're like all the whole point of our whole conversation is there's not one answer, right?
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, it is yeah, sometimes it is sometimes it's your answer.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: You have to like you have to look kind of thing.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_03: But I think it is helpful to say you don't just go from darkness to light, you know, it's a journey towards the sliver of light.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_03: And for me, when I was in my deepest darkness, I I think what is probably a shared feeling is just this like almost this paralysis of I can't take any motion, I can't take any forward motion because I feel this darkness feels all-consuming and it feels like it'll last forever and I don't see any way out.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_03: And so what I have said before is, you know, there are people in you know, kind of best-intended self-care tips will be like, take a shower, get outside, wash the dishes.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_03: And and I think those are fantastic, but in my darkest moment, take a shower was too much, like that's too big of a step.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_03: Wash the dishes was too it was too far, that was too big of a reach.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm like, scoot to the edge of the couch.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_03: That's your first step.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_03: Sit up, see if you can sit up, you know.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_03: Can you walk to the sink and put a dish in it?
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_03: Like you really just those like the smallest of victories are how we start, one step in front of the other.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_03: And so just that, like, don't be overwhelmed by I I can't possibly take a shower, but you can possibly scoot your butt to the edge of the couch.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_03: You can possibly sit up, and that's how like so.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_03: The micro movements that's how it was for me, is like it has to be micro movements forward.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_03: That's thing A.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_03: Thing two is there's no getting out of the darkness by yourself.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_03: When you're in the pitch black, you will stay you you are lost.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_03: You don't have any sense of direction, you don't know navigationally where the light is, where's the door, but other people do because they're on the outside.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_03: And so you got to find the person that's willing to come in to the darkness with a flashlight, grab your hand, and walk you in the direction.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_03: So whatever help looks like, whether it's texting a friend, calling someone, whether it's responding to someone who's texting you.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: Cause sometimes people are worried about you.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and I think that's something too to go back to looking for the hearts, right?
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: The heart shapes.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's the same thing.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like, if you know, in that darkness, there's a world where looking for maybe you don't feel comfortable reaching out, but looking for who's reaching out to you.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: Because I've been fortunate that like I I've always at least had someone like trying to connect to me, right?
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: Even though sometimes I maybe haven't seen it or what have you, right?
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_01: Looking for that, right?
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: Being like, is someone willing to help me in whatever way, you even though everything feels so massive and so too big to handle, just recognizing those very little things.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: I do remember like people throwing me, you know, work opportunities or people like, oh, just offering to come over and like help organize something, you know, it's just like things like that, in addition to the micro movements.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: I love that about the micro movements, right?
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: Because it and just saying nice things to yourself about those micro movements as well.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like that's a victory.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_03: It's a huge victory.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_03: Redefining what victory looks like, I think is important.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, responding to the lifelines that might be throwing being thrown your way, however they show up.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_03: And one thing that I hear a lot that I think is true, it's another one of those that it might be too much to ask in the deepest darkness, but when we turn our attention away from ourselves, so whether it's going to volunteer somewhere or asking somebody else what they need, or checking in on a friend to say, are you okay?
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_03: So turning our attention outward and and seeking to be a helper, even when we ourselves desperately need help, it strengthens us in a in a way that's that's hard to hard to make tangible.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_03: But that's a tip that has worked for me of when I'm feeling when I start to feel myself retreating inward, to make that intentional choice to turn outward and say, who can I help today?
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_03: Who do I need to check in on?
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_03: Even if I'm like, I'm so I need so much help.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_03: Somebody help me.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_03: To be like, oh, who can I help today?
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_03: There is a there is something powerful in that as well.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and honestly, and it does, it makes you feel less helpless.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe it's not when you're having like the like the need for micro movements, but I I think of like the times where like watching a friend's kid, you know, where it's just like it felt so good to be like, I am a contributor.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I'm a value to somebody else.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_01: And just seeing those parts of yourself, even if it needs to be in a different lens or a different direction, you know, like I love that, like that third, I mean, all of the points.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I just it but it can be so heavy, but like little, little bits add up.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_01: They just don't.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_03: They do.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_03: Well, and connecting all the dots of everything we've talked about, taking us out of the darkness and into a leadership setting.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_03: I think one of the reasons why I'm so relentlessly passionate about honoring and holding and speaking into the darkness and the light and the contradictions and the difficulties and the how we're humans and we're beautiful and imperfect is because even if I'm not in the darkness, there's still a lot of times this feeling of I have to put on a, I have to be this way, or I have to everyone else has it all figured out and I don't.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_03: How often do we have that?
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_03: Of like that person has all the answers.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_03: That person looks perfect and they sound perfect.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_03: And so then nobody must understand my problems.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_03: Nobody must have ever been going through what I've been going through.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_03: And what more often than not happens if I'm willing to courageously say I'm struggling with this or this happened to me, or I really messed up here.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_03: I can't believe what an idiot I was there.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_03: That we're not, it doesn't push people away from us.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_03: It makes people go, Oh, thank God.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_03: Same.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_03: I was imperfect too, and now I feel closer to you and and better about myself.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_03: That we just we feel like everyone is all figured out around us.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_03: And we're a whole bunch of humans who don't have it figured out, feeling like everyone all around us has it figured out.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's the silliest thought that ever did did ever did be.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I'm thinking about, you know, you're essentially, and I'm calling this out because I noticed on your your website you have in some of your photos, you've got yourself with the book The Alchemists, which we love.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_01: And and it's almost you're talking about alchemizing darkness into light here.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, talking about the darkness you experience, and then you talk about you just like you physically lean forward when you talked about people like almost being attracted to when you share the things you've been through, and right, like like a moth to a flame, like they're attracted to this, like this pureness and the like the the truth that you've experienced, right?
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_01: And and uh I just love that.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_03: Makes us feel less alone, you know.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_03: 100%.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I love the alchemist too, and I love the way you described it.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_03: And I just I have a quote that's taped to my monitor that says the way you alchemize a soulless world into a sacred world is by treating everyone as if they are sacred until the sacred in them remembers yeah, goosebumps for sure.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, right?
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_01: For sure, yeah.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_03: And so that idea of like treating everyone as if they're sacred, that's how we you know alchemize the world.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_03: That's how we turn this world into golden beauty of like we're all beautiful humans, doing the best we can, you know.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_01: So when we first met, we met at a a women's leadership conference.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_01: The people who listen to this podcast know I'm a big grow wee woe fan.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_01: Those are my ladies, and uh I met you in Anderson, I do believe.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_01: And it was so amazing.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like our just we had like a very brief 10 to 15 minute conversation.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_01: We could barely stop.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: And we dug into very quick, but also very deep, the idea of story and both what we tell ourselves, which we've already covered a little bit today, and then also like once we tell ourselves, like how we get to share that, share a little bit about your thoughts there.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_03: I need to give a shout out and a direction towards an entirely different community so that anyone that's listening, here's a resource that you must dig into.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_03: So the organization is Astoria, which means story.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_03: It's a group of phenomenal humans.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_03: Harris the third, magician, speaker, author, and his wife Kate Harris, author, speaker.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_03: They run this organization that has at its epicenter the story gathering that happens in Nashville, Tennessee every year, which is where they live, and has over the last few years evolved into many other different things: online gatherings, coaching cohorts.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_03: There's so many different things.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_03: And they've kind of collected along the way some remarkable people that make their living in business about narrative intelligence and storytelling and the power of myth and story and all the stuff.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_03: So if even the word story is piquing your interest, you must run, don't walk, get involved in this community.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_03: They're amazing and they they fuel my soul for sure.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_03: So I just want to say a little shout out over there.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and also like Nashville has it going on right now.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_01: There's some really cool stuff happening over there.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, why not make a weekend of it?
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_03: Go to Nashville, get hooked up with the story, folks.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_03: They're amazing.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_03: For me, story is just it's such an interesting thing to think about in terms of the stories we tell ourselves.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_03: And again, I mean, you know, this is our theme, but like the narrative, uh, the limiting beliefs and the stories that we tell ourselves that either were never true at all, but we heard them enough from other people that we adopted them and just decided they were true.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_03: Or for a lot of us, I know for myself, stories that may have been true at one point, but I've outgrown that story.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_03: It's that's the 20 year old version of me, not the 50 year old version of me.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, let's talk more about that because I do think self limiting beliefs are like you could, you know, you can Google, like you're like, hey, I gotta, I gotta get this.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Mine right.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Self-limiting beliefs is gonna be it's gonna be in there quite soon.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_01: But you're right, like growing out of an older version of us, right?
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, you know, because a lot of times I think self-limiting beliefs, I've heard it talked about in the context of like what someone has told you, what like what you kind of started telling yourself and then reiterated until the point where you're like, This is my truth, and you're like, is it my truth?
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_01: And then you question it, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_01: That's a quick and dirty, not super professional version of what we're talking about.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_01: But I love what you're saying here.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_03: Nice and succinct.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_03: Well, because I had so I so as an imperfect example, I have a beloved friend and colleague that we were just talking about, a similar this in the realm of this topic not that long ago.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_03: And she's someone that I've known, she's in her 40s now, but somebody that I've known since her very early 20s.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_03: And she was talking about how when she came into kind of her first job, that she kind of was labeled the kid because she was the kid, right?
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_03: It's her first job at a college, so she's the young one.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_03: And so she responded in kind.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_03: You think I'm the kid, so I'm the kid.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_03: So that means a lot of different things, including I'll always defer to the adults in the room, which is at that point everyone else.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_03: And what she was saying recently, she was realizing that in her 40s, she still defers to kid mode and or defaults to kid mode and like defers to the adults in the room, forgetting that she's now a very seasoned, wise professional that should people should be deferring to her expertise.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_03: 100%.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh, this is amazing.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_03: The kid, I that the kid needs to be shed.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_03: That story needs to be that chapter needs to be closed and put direct, you know.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but that we just forget to pay attention to the stories that we're still the operating system that we're still working and functioning within.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_03: We're we don't give ourselves the upgrade or the update, right?
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like all the things.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_03: There's not an easy way to do this other than just to shine light on it to say, how do you think about yourself?
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_03: If you were to describe yourself, what are the words that you use?
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_03: And then when you look at those words, are those the right words?
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_03: Or the words you want to be the words?
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_03: Do you like those words?
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_03: Are there words that you are scared to say because it feels too audacious?
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_03: Or that's never mean that it'll never be me.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_03: I just think it's huge because I don't think we realize how much that impacts our decisions and our choices in how we show up, where we show up, what we offer the world.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like those inner voices, that inner story really dictates more than we think it does in terms of how this chapter of our lives is going.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_01: I also find it's how we relate to others as well, right?
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_01: If we met somebody in our early 20s, right?
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like you described this colleague of yours, and this colleague has then experienced 20 years since then.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like, if we give ourselves the opportunity to outgrow those versions of ourselves, it also creates this part of our like the way we operate in the world where we see other people can grow out of those parts of themselves.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_01: And we let people show up differently as time goes on, and we give them grace and opportunity to like they're on their own healing journey, they're on their own journey, whether or not they're you know, we're all going different directions.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, that's another, but they're on their own journey, right?
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_01: And who knows what they might have like grown through or or how they've changed since maybe the last time you worked with them was like five years ago, you know, and then you connect with them, and like a lot happens in five years.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_03: We know that a lot happens, and so to this is a reminder to us to give to assess someone based on what they're presenting us in this moment, not based on this is what I knew of you from 20 years ago, from 10 years ago, from five years ago.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_03: Because if most of us as humans are evolving and growing.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_01: 100%, 100%.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_03: Some of us may, we may like, this is the way I've been, this is the way I'll always be, but that's I think that's a rare, but that's a rarer thing.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_03: You it takes a lot to not change.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_03: Like you gotta work hard at that.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, for what?
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_03: Like most of us, even if we're not intentionally practicing a growth mindset, we're we're changing and we're growing and and things have happened.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_03: And somebody that only met me in 2018, I would love the chance to reintroduce myself to them because that person met me in my deepest darkness.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_03: They didn't meet me, they met a shell of me that was shrouded in shame and destruction.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_03: That who they met is not who I was before, and it's certainly not who I am now.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_03: But so that that's a snapshot of time.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_03: And so, yeah, we do need to re we need to remember those stories for ourselves.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_03: But I love your point that we need to give ours each other the grace of reintroduce myself to you, yourself to me, you know.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, and then I think this goes back to no, not what pops in my mind is there are folks that I made friends with during dark times that I reflect on those times today, and I'm like, oh my gosh, who was I when we met?
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_01: kind of thing.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_01: And then they're like, honestly, you just you were a little crushed, you know, like and but you still had your spirit, you know, like we and they those people that still see you, even when like you're like, and and it's really cool to like to look at certain friendships and be like, oh wow, like you you met me at a time where I was not really looking to meet people, like and that you like you still loved me for me because I was raw, you know, it's so cool.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's also very, very, very, very, very cool.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_03: So I don't know if if you see those in your your for sure, those are those authentic soul connections, the people that hold space for you in all the phases, because they recognize that what we've been talking about today is that we're we're so many layers of things as humans.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_03: So the ones that would be like, oh, you know, or even the ones that might delight in your downfall, which there are those two, you know, like ha ha.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_03: I like that.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_00: I like that phrase.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_00: It almost makes it more jolly than it actually is.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_00: The delight in your downfall that I just I it makes me giggle and it's not a giggly concept.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, it's awful, but it's it's it's the reminder we can, you know, that's not somebody that ever was trying to connect to our soul level.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_03: And so the those kind of chapters are revealing in terms of who who um Renee Brown talks about the square, like who's in your square.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like, I forget what she says.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_03: I think she says get like a one inch by one inch post-it and put the people in your life.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_00: How small can you write?
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_03: That's not a lot of space.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_03: But that there's, you know, that's pretty much for most of us.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_03: It's like we have our square people, the people that fit in the square, those are the people that see my soul.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_03: They don't see my behavior on a Monday when I'm I'm you just hit me at the wrong moment in time.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_03: And boy, it's not the best of me that's showing up.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_03: Those are the people that see all of it and don't judge by the moment of it.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know how we got on that, but because I could I had another thought I wanted to say.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_01: We were talking about follow our thread backwards.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_01: No, I know, but it's a beautiful thing.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_01: We were we were discussing the um the like the limiting beliefs, and then you I just you just like blew my freaking mind.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's not like I never thought about it, but like just like the idea that like the stories we have, because because that's something too, to go back to my example of like she did therapy in her early 20s, she took a breather in her late 20s to like do lots of coaching and then recognized, oh, it's time to go back to like because I think like my mid-20s, I like wrote this story to myself that I'm like, oh no, I I healed myself in therapy, you know?
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like as though life isn't gonna like get you some more.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_03: I did that already, so it's all done.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_00: Seal her up, she's healed, send her on her way.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my lord.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_03: I I love this may or may not feel like it's connected, but it made me think of the healed and the like there when we declare something in the life stuff, we can never check off the list, right?
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_03: We can check tasks off our list, but not our being, because we're it's constantly ebbing and flowing.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and healing is healing isn't a checklist.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_01: I often will be like, here are the to-dos, so I will heal myself.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I, you know, I've discussed this before on the pod.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it's real.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_03: Healing is an ongoing journey, and the things that you do each day might be checklist things, right?
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_03: The actions might be checklist things, but the pursuit is never done.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_03: I, a friend and I yesterday were talking about, if you're familiar with Mark Nipo, he has a phenomenal book called The Book of Awakening.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_03: And it's it's not new.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's not new.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_03: I don't even know what year it was.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's been around for a minute, but it's a wonderful kind of book that get for January 1st, because it's a January 1st, here's your reading and a meditation.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_03: January 2nd, here's your reading and a meditation.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like a daily devotional moment.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_03: Daily, and yeah, and he wrote it coming out of a cancer journey.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_03: So it's a lot of somebody that's faced mortality this close.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_03: And so meditative, really great Buddhist and Stoic principles.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_03: But one of the things that he talks about in one of the pages that my friend had heard and shared with me.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_03: And so I was like, Oh, yes, I I know this is to not his invitation to us is to not become a noun, but to stay a verb.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_03: So my friend was using the example of her daughter, like loves to sing.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_03: And so people would naturally be like, Oh, are you a singer?
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_03: Are you going to be a singer?
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_03: Trying to nounify what is the love.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_03: The verb, the love is in the verb singing.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_03: That's where the passion is.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_03: But then when we contain it into a noun, singer, boy, do we take some of the fizzle in life out of it, right?
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_03: And so, how many times do we try to nounnify something?
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_03: We give it a title or a role, or we if it if it can't be a noun, is the verb not worth the pursuit?
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_03: When in fact, our life should be lived in the verb, I think is the point.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_01: How did you do that?
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_01: You brought us right back to that intro bit where you like, you know, like the idea of like, don't put the labels on the people.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_01: Don't put nouns on people, let them verb, you know?
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I love, love, love that.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_01: And it's also like we do that internally.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_01: I I've got uh, you know, a few documentary films under my belt, and like in my early 20s, I was like, I just want to be a filmmaker.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_01: I just want to be a filmmaker, right?
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_01: And finally, I was journaling one morning, I'm like, Caitlin, did you not already complete two films and you're funded for your third?
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what do you do?
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like this, you are a filmmaker.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_01: You are a filmmaker.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and it's like, and so from now on, like I, even though I'm totally nounifying myself here, but like I'm like, I have made films, I am a filmmaker, right?
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I could at any time be filmmaking, you know.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's like, I just love that you you went there and I love that it came there full circle from like how we opened, where it's like, yeah, I'm like, Erica, tell us who you are, give us your nouns, and you're like, ain't gonna do it.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_01: So good.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_03: And the idea of I love your example.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_03: When we claim the noun, I think is the point.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_03: So well, actually, I think there's two points.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_03: So that may that are contradictory, right?
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_03: So when we claim the noun, like you just did, I am a filmmaker, damn it.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_03: Like, what is because you were you had created a different version of filmmaker in your mind that was yet outside of your reach, even though you've already made two films plus a third is coming.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_03: That's the absurdity, right?
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, it was it was such a morning, like when I was just like, and then the rest of the day we're like, yay.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_03: Hi, filmmaker, hello, Caitlin, filmmaker, filmmaker, filmmaker.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_03: So when we claim the noun, then it's like empowering because we claim something that we had decided, the story we had told ourselves was that was out of our reach, which was an entirely fabricated story because it not only was within your reach, it was already true in this case.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_03: So hello.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_03: Hello, but the verb is the love of filmmaking, and what you nurture and nourish and tend to is the love of filmmaking, and then what comes out of that is I'm a filmmaker.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, same thing, like we are actively podcasting and I'm obsessed with it.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, like I don't want to just sit around and be like, I want to be a podcaster, I want to be a podcaster.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, no, I want to interview cool people and tell their freaking stories.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_03: Here we go.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_03: And that's the action.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_03: I'm the love of podcasting because of the love of connection and conversation.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_03: The label that might come out of that is secondary because the joy is in the the action, which is the verb part of it, you know?
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm so lucky to have had this conversation with you.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_01: I have two final questions.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_01: Is there anything that you were like, oh, I cannot wait to talk about this, or I want to share this?
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_01: And then I am gonna ask you like where people can find you.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, there's also that journey, right?
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_01: So, but is there anything that you were like, oh, I want to share this story, I wanna share this tidbit, I got a quote for her because I love quotes.
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Erica, you know.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_01: I know you say that every morning.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, Erica, she loves quotes.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_03: She loves quotes.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know that there's any one thing.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_03: So I think it's I have many days where I feel doubt and I feel lost and I feel like I'm running in circles, and I feel darker than on other days when I feel the lightness, I feel the heaviness.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_03: And I think just the reminder that that's not doesn't mean something's wrong.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_03: Doesn't mean that you're on the wrong path.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_03: It means you're embracing life fully.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_03: I just finished talking on another platform this morning about amor fati, the love.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_03: Do you know this?
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_03: I it sounds familiar, but how do you spell it?
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, you're amazing.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_03: Amor A-M-O-R, love, fati, f-a-ti-fate.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_03: It's a Latin phrase that means the love of your fate.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_03: The passage that I read this morning on another platform was because the first time I had encountered it, Joseph Campbell, who's a famous storyteller, is writing in one of his books, having heard about Amor Fatih from Nietzsche, but Nietzsche didn't invent it, I don't think.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I think it's one of those tale as old as time things.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_03: Who's the first person?
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_03: But love of your fate, amor fati, means to not just accept your reality, but to embrace whatever the day brings as if you had chosen it yourself.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_03: So however your day goes, you say, This is exactly how I scripted it.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_03: This is exactly showing up exactly as I intended, no matter how much of a disaster, no matter what kind of shit show you're you are trying to navigate through, amorfati is it's that it's the reframing.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_03: How do I look at this and say, I couldn't have chosen better?
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_03: Because it really is that reminder of like you everything that we struggle through shapes us into the beautiful version of a human that we are right now.
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_03: So the struggles strengthen us, the challenges build us, and boy, they're a lot more fun if we choose to believe that, well, this is exactly what I ordered up today.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and you started like our conversation with this as well, the idea that you're just like, I'm just here for the giggles, you know, I'm here for the silliness, I'm here for the fun, I'm here for the joy.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I do find like in like moments of like intensity, like I just can't help but like smile nervously and giggle.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like, cause it's just like here we are.
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's just very awkward.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, it's like my subconscious knows something I don't, you know.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_01: And it's so cool.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_01: That's so cool.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, let's wrap it up with where people can find you.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just so great.
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_01: This has been so fun, and I could just go, go, go, go, go, go, go.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_01: But let's let's give them a place to find you so that they can have more Erica.
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, please, please.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_03: You can find me actively on LinkedIn, TikTok, or my website.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_03: So my website is extraordinaryinu.com.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_03: LinkedIn and TikTok, you can just find me under Erica Patrelli by.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_03: But that's where those are the three spaces where I'm sort of most readily available and love to connect with humans.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_03: And so, any which way, I I love the human connection.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_00: Same Z's.
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's why that's why we connected, right?
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_01: So Yeah, Erica, thank you so much.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_01: I will include that in the show notes.
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for having me.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_01: You're thank you.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_01: I can't even say you're welcome because thank you.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_01: Crafted Connections is lovingly produced by Kelvin Creative Consulting, a strategic storytelling firm dedicated to helping people and brands tell their stories in a way that resonates.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_01: If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and connect with us on Instagram at CraftedConnections.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_01: Keep creating, keep connecting, until we meet again.