Latest / Wrongful Conviction / #383 Jason Flom with Nelson Cruz

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#383 Jason Flom with Nelson Cruz · Wrongful Conviction

0:00
Speaker 1: We originally released our coverage of Nelson Cruz on March seventeenth,
0:03
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one. Since then, there have been some remarkable developments,
0:07
Speaker 1: and we're re releasing this episode stitching in a new
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Speaker 1: interview with the man himself. Mister Nelson Cruz. East New
0:16
Speaker 1: York is a notoriously tough Brooklyn neighborhood. In the seventies, eighties,
0:20
Speaker 1: and nineties, it had an equally corrupt local precinct, the
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Speaker 1: seven to five or seventy fifth Precinct, home to many
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Speaker 1: of the wrongful convictions of notorious and YPD detectives Luis
0:31
Speaker 1: Carcela and Stephen Camille. On March twenty eighth, nineteen ninety eight,
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Speaker 1: Nelson Cruz was out in the neighborhood with some friends
0:39
Speaker 1: celebrating his seventeenth birthday over Chinese food when they heard
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Speaker 1: gunshots close by, so close, in fact, that they saw
0:47
Speaker 1: the police swoop in immediately to get the situation under control.
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Speaker 1: A police officer had seen the actual muscle flash of
0:55
Speaker 1: the gun in Eduardo Rodriguez's hand. Trevor Vieira, a man
0:59
Speaker 1: in his mid twentieth known for stickups, was lying dead
1:02
Speaker 1: in the street. Rodriguez was brought in for questioning, where
1:05
Speaker 1: Scarcela and Camille turned what should have been an open
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Speaker 1: and shutcase into another horrific wrongful conviction with the false
1:14
Speaker 1: testimony of a man who didn't even know police were
1:17
Speaker 1: unseen to arrest Rodriguez, and in spite of the testimony
1:21
Speaker 1: of that uniform police officer stating that Nelson Cruz was
1:25
Speaker 1: definitely not the shooter, Nelson was convicted and sentenced to
1:29
Speaker 1: twenty five years to life. And if matters couldn't get
1:32
Speaker 1: any worse, despite a mountain of new exculpatory evidence, the
1:37
Speaker 1: judge who oversaw his most recent appeal suffers now from
1:42
Speaker 1: early onset Alzheimer's, which has impaired her ability to follow
1:46
Speaker 1: the case and set Nelson free. This is Wrongful Conviction
1:51
Speaker 1: with Jason Flopp. Hello, This is a prepaid collect call
2:07
Speaker 1: from an inmate at New York State Department of Corrections
2:11
Speaker 1: and Community Supervision.
2:13
Speaker 2: This call is subject to recording and monitoring. To accept charges,
2:17
Speaker 2: press one to refuse charges, Press two.
2:21
Speaker 1: Thank you for using securis. You may start the conversation now.
2:25
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm That's me.
2:29
Speaker 1: I'm your host today. We have a deeply, deeply troubling
2:34
Speaker 1: situation to talk to you about. Today. We're on the
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Speaker 1: phone with Nelson Cruz, an innocent man who's been in
2:40
Speaker 1: prison for a twenty two years now in New York State,
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Speaker 1: and I'm going to introduce now to you an attorney.
2:46
Speaker 1: You have a tremendous amount of respect for who I'm
2:48
Speaker 1: proud to work with on a day to day basis
2:50
Speaker 1: on various cases, including this one. Justin bonus, Welcome to
2:54
Speaker 1: wrongful Conviction.
2:55
Speaker 2: Good morning, Jason. How are you?
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Speaker 1: I'm all right. Thanks, I'm glad to be here with you,
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Speaker 1: and most of all, I'm glad to be here with
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Speaker 1: the man of the hour, Nelson Cruz. Nelson, I'm sorry
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Speaker 1: you have to be here under these circumstances, but I'm
3:06
Speaker 1: really glad you're here to tell your story. So welcome
3:08
Speaker 1: to wronfuel conviction.
3:09
Speaker 3: Good morning, Jason.
3:11
Speaker 1: And which prison are you in now?
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Speaker 3: What Burn Correction? The facility up state in New York.
3:16
Speaker 1: Can you take us back to that time.
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Speaker 3: I was in tenth grade at the time. It was
3:20
Speaker 3: a nice night in March twenty eighth, nineteen ninety eight,
3:23
Speaker 3: the day before my birthday. Me and like three of
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Speaker 3: my friends. We walked around the corner to the Chinese
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Speaker 3: restaurant to purchase some food, and me and my friends was,
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Speaker 3: you know, laughing and joking like we usually do. We
3:35
Speaker 3: stepped outside and shot the fire down the block on
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Speaker 3: braffing and picking, and when I looked, I've seen a
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Speaker 3: police officer car that pulled up immediately and was getting
3:45
Speaker 3: the area under control, and I've seen that they had
3:47
Speaker 3: a Spanish guy on the floor and there was arresting
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Speaker 3: the guy. However, about four in the morning, Homicide contacted
3:55
Speaker 3: my mom's told my mother they wanted to interview me
3:58
Speaker 3: for the murder. And I was like, how can it be.
4:01
Speaker 3: I don't have nothing to do with the situation. So
4:03
Speaker 3: my big weather sid we're going to get an attorney.
4:04
Speaker 3: We're going to go down to the priest. Don't go
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Speaker 3: down there by yourself, because you know, the semi fifth
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Speaker 3: prison is dirty. I said, fine, And on April third,
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Speaker 3: about attorney went to the prison with the attorney and
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Speaker 3: went to a lineup and I've never seen the scrief again.
4:20
Speaker 1: Justin I want to turn to you because this case
4:22
Speaker 1: is the definition of an open and shut case. It
4:26
Speaker 1: should have never even been anywhere near Nelson or his
4:30
Speaker 1: family because they knew from day one exactly who did it.
4:34
Speaker 1: Can you explain what I'm talking about here?
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Speaker 2: This murder happens March twenty eighth, nineteen ninety eight, at
4:39
Speaker 2: eleven fifteen at the corner of Bradford and Picking. Two
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Speaker 2: cops in a patrol car. Officer William Pietti actually watches
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Speaker 2: the man with the ponytail, who we later find out
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Speaker 2: is at Wardo Rodriguez, firing the gun, sees the muzzle
4:54
Speaker 2: flare towards Bradford and Picking, which is where the deceased
4:57
Speaker 2: Trevor Vieira was found. Pietti actually arrests at Wardo Rodriguez,
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Speaker 2: tells him to drop the gun, and Officer Palmery chases
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Speaker 2: a black man. I guess who runs away. These are
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Speaker 2: what the two cops say at one thirty one five
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Speaker 2: in the morning when they're interviewed by none other than
5:15
Speaker 2: Detective Lewis Scarcela and Detective Steven Kimmel. And just to
5:20
Speaker 2: tell you who those men are, I mean, they're probably
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Speaker 2: some of the most storied police officers in the country
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Speaker 2: when it comes to wrongful convictions in relation to homicides
5:28
Speaker 2: and Lewis Scarcella with Camill shows up at the scene
5:32
Speaker 2: at eleven fifty five. They are totally involved with this case.
5:35
Speaker 2: Scarcella and Camille are at the precinct with Rodriguez. Rodriguez
5:39
Speaker 2: at around three o'clock in the morning or so actually
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Speaker 2: makes a statement. Another witness, William Johnson, who later testifies
5:47
Speaker 2: that Nelson wasn't at the scene. He was an eyewitness
5:49
Speaker 2: arrested at the scene. He was interviewed, does not indicate
5:52
Speaker 2: anything about Nelson Cruz. So the first person to actually
5:55
Speaker 2: name Cruise is at Wardo Rodriguez. And then there was
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Speaker 2: a third witness. His name is Andre Bellinger, who was
6:00
Speaker 2: interviewed at something around three forty five in the morning,
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Speaker 2: and he says Nelson as well. Nelson turns himself in
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Speaker 2: on April third. He's barely seventeen years old. Mark Brooks
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Speaker 2: runs the lineup. He is allegedly the lead investigator out
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Speaker 2: of the seventy fifth because Stephen Camill is the lead
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Speaker 2: investigator for Brooklyn North. And how you understand the politics
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Speaker 2: between Brooklyn North and the local precinct, says one detective
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Speaker 2: from Brooklyn North would work with a precinct detective. So
6:26
Speaker 2: Stephen Camill was the lead partner detective with Mark Brooks
6:30
Speaker 2: who was the detective from the seventy fifth precinct, and
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Speaker 2: Lewis Scarcela was Stephen Camill's partner from Brooklyn North. You know,
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Speaker 2: So what we have happened is a lineup that's conducted
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Speaker 2: and Andre Bellinger is the only witness that comes in to
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Speaker 2: view the lineup.
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Speaker 1: So little does Nelson know he's going right into the
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Speaker 1: eye of the storm. Here. You were living through this
6:51
Speaker 1: a tenth greater. I mean, can you take us back
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Speaker 1: to what you were thinking and feeling at that time,
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Speaker 1: starting on the third when you turned yourself in.
6:59
Speaker 4: Yes.
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Speaker 3: So I go into the precinct and I'm sitting down
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Speaker 3: just waiting for the detectives to go look for some
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Speaker 3: fellers to the lineup. Scart Seller. He's on his desk
7:08
Speaker 3: with his feet picked up, smoking a cigar. I'll never
7:11
Speaker 3: forget this. He's smoking a cigar. And he asked me, Uh,
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Speaker 3: you're not scared to be here? I said no, I
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Speaker 3: wouldn't be here, but I committed this murder. He should
7:19
Speaker 3: have head said, all right, after they got the fillers,
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Speaker 3: we went into the lineup. I got picked out of
7:25
Speaker 3: course by Andre Billinger. And my attorney's explained to me, listen,
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Speaker 3: don't say nothing to these detective The only thing that
7:31
Speaker 3: you supposed to state of them is your name and address.
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Speaker 3: So they kept me in the bullpen for a little while,
7:35
Speaker 3: for a couple of hours, and they took me out
7:37
Speaker 3: the bullpen and then bring me right back into the
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Speaker 3: lineup rung and they cuffed me into like the little
7:42
Speaker 3: rols inside of lineup rung and start Seller brings the
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Speaker 3: paper into the room and he's telling me, listen, we
7:48
Speaker 3: already know what happened. Just sign it and you will
7:51
Speaker 3: be leaving. So I tell Scott Seller, I'm not signing anything.
7:55
Speaker 3: He gets a little frustrated, So you got your meal,
7:57
Speaker 3: trying to play the gut cop. He's telling me, listen,
7:59
Speaker 3: just sign it, then you'll be walking out. We already
8:01
Speaker 3: know what happened. I tell him again, I'm not signing anything.
8:05
Speaker 3: Scart's teller get a little frustrated, crumble the paper and
8:08
Speaker 3: slaps me in the face with this again. He's telling me,
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Speaker 3: you know, hostile, Just sign the paper you'll be And
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Speaker 3: I'm like, I'm not signing anything. That left me in
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Speaker 3: a room for like a high hour, they brings me
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Speaker 3: back into the book pen, and about maybe like an
8:18
Speaker 3: hour after that, they put me into a van they
8:21
Speaker 3: driving me to us Central Bookman. And later on, when
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Speaker 3: I get my voluntary disclosure for him, I see that
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Speaker 3: they put a DD five report in a statement that
8:29
Speaker 3: I made a spontaneous statement. The statement face signed to
8:32
Speaker 3: the fact that I got shot in my leg and
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Speaker 3: I shot the guy and ran and I'm looking at
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Speaker 3: I'm telling my attorney, I never said any of this
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Speaker 3: to these detectives. Number never said any of this.
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Speaker 2: And the statement that he attributes to Nelson is the
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Speaker 2: same type of language that's in all of these Scarcella
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Speaker 2: Incamilal cases. When you have these quote unquote confessions.
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Speaker 1: And by the way, I have to say this before
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Speaker 1: I get back to Justin. It sounds to me like
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Speaker 1: you did everything right. You did what we always add
9:00
Speaker 1: people to do on the show, don't talk. You didn't
9:02
Speaker 1: sign a piece of paper, although it sounded like a
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Speaker 1: pretty good offer, like to a kid in tenth grade.
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Speaker 1: So you did everything right and the system failed you anyway, Justin,
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Speaker 1: do you have a theory on how this Rodriguez character
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Speaker 1: could have possibly convinced the detectives that. I mean, my
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Speaker 1: mind goes to a pretty dark place here. But why
9:20
Speaker 1: did he finger Nelson?
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Speaker 2: The only theory I have is Rodriguez knew who Nelson
9:25
Speaker 2: was and he just pinned it on somebody that maybe
9:27
Speaker 2: looked more like him than anybody else did. But one
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Speaker 2: other thing about Edward or Rodriguez, the seventy fifth was
9:34
Speaker 2: very familiar with him. He had multiple arrests from the
9:37
Speaker 2: seventy fifth robbery I believe in nineteen ninety and then
9:40
Speaker 2: a drug conviction in ninety five. He was on parole
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Speaker 2: at the time of this murder for that drug conviction
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Speaker 2: from ninety five.
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Speaker 1: They knew him, and they might have found him to
9:50
Speaker 1: be useful, and in this case, they didn't want to
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Speaker 1: put him in jail. I mean, that's clear because they
9:55
Speaker 1: could have. They should have. It was their responsibility to
9:58
Speaker 1: do so, and instead they decided I had to pin
10:00
Speaker 1: it on an innocent man named Nelson Cruz, which was
10:03
Speaker 1: standard operating procedure for them at that time.
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Speaker 2: Anyway, the seventy fifth, as Nelson said, is notorious. The
10:09
Speaker 2: quote from Michael Race when he was the head of
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Speaker 2: that squad from the early eighties into the early nineties,
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Speaker 2: he was involved with seven hundred and fifty homicide investigations
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Speaker 2: and only one time did they actually follow the rules.
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Speaker 2: So Rodriguez tells them I didn't do it, and they
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Speaker 2: bring Andre Bellinger in. He gives them the information that
10:28
Speaker 2: they want to hear. And what we know about Andre
10:29
Speaker 2: Bellinger is, in nineteen eighty one, Andre Bellinger was charged
10:33
Speaker 2: with murder and he only does a one and a
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Speaker 2: half to three. At the time of Nelson's arrest, Andre
10:38
Speaker 2: Bellinger was working with the PAAL, which is the Police
10:41
Speaker 2: Athletic League, and he lived only two blocks away from
10:44
Speaker 2: the seventy fifth Precinct. And what we know from a
10:47
Speaker 2: hearing what Detective Brooks testifies to is right before the
10:51
Speaker 2: lineup Scarcell and Camille, they're alone with Andre Bellinger.
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Speaker 1: So now we have to get to the trial. A
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Speaker 1: New York City police officer that they had not seen
11:02
Speaker 1: Nelson Cruz at the scene. I'm going to read the
11:05
Speaker 1: testimony here. Nelson, your lawyer walked the officer through what happened.
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Speaker 1: He said, did you see the muzzle flashes of the gun?
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Speaker 1: He answers, I saw muzzle flashes, and you jumped out
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Speaker 1: of the car almost immediately upon hearing the shots. Correct,
11:18
Speaker 1: and the officer says, correct, your gun drawn. Officer says, yes.
11:22
Speaker 1: Did you ever see Nelson Cruz on the scene.
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Speaker 4: No?
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Speaker 1: Did you ever see Nelson Cruz with a nine millimeter
11:28
Speaker 1: handgun in his hand? No, you did see Eduardo Rodriguez
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Speaker 1: with a nine millimeter handgun in his hand. Correct. Yes,
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Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, you were pointing your nine
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Speaker 1: milimeter at him. Correct. Officer replies correct, because he had
11:41
Speaker 1: a gun in his hand. Correct. Correct, And you were
11:45
Speaker 1: screaming at the top of your lungs that drop the gun,
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Speaker 1: drop the gun. Correct. Officer replies correct. Now, that is
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Speaker 1: some of the most powerful testimony I have ever heard,
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Speaker 1: and all of it serves to prove that you could
11:59
Speaker 1: not did not commit this crime.
12:02
Speaker 3: You know, as you just read the testimony, I remember
12:05
Speaker 3: this like yesterday, and I'm still confused, Jason. The only
12:08
Speaker 3: wines against me was not like Labo Rodriguez at Matriu.
12:12
Speaker 3: They used Andre Billinger. And when you ask Andre Billinger
12:16
Speaker 3: to space, he was there from the beginning to the
12:18
Speaker 3: n Did you see police on the scene, he states, no,
12:22
Speaker 3: We ask him, did you see anybody get arrested on
12:24
Speaker 3: the crown saying he states no, so and my mom
12:28
Speaker 3: is like what crowd.
12:30
Speaker 1: Saying was this guy in? How could you be confused
12:33
Speaker 1: as to whether or not there were police officers? He
12:35
Speaker 1: wasn't confused. He said there weren't, but there were. This
12:37
Speaker 1: is not a thing you could mix up, like the
12:39
Speaker 1: color of the shirt the guy was wearing. You know.
12:41
Speaker 2: Bellinger His story is that Nelson gets into it with
12:44
Speaker 2: a guy named Shaq, and that Nelson drives his car,
12:47
Speaker 2: comes back around and then gets into it with vi Era.
12:51
Speaker 2: Bellinger says that Nelson accused Vieira of giving Shack a gun,
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Speaker 2: that Nelson just kills Vieira. That's basically Bellinger's story. No
12:58
Speaker 2: one else says that no one. And what's interesting is
13:02
Speaker 2: Shack actually came to testify in twenty nineteen and he
13:05
Speaker 2: said he never had a fight with Nelson Cruz. So
13:07
Speaker 2: that was a made up story. And what corroborates what
13:09
Speaker 2: Shaq says is when Andre Bellinger speaks to the conviction
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Speaker 2: Review Unit in twenty fifteen, says he says he can't
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Speaker 2: even remember the incident with Shaq, which is the whole
13:17
Speaker 2: basis of this altercation. This case is a joke.
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Speaker 1: Okay. Bellinger was also the least credible witness, not just
13:26
Speaker 1: because of his background, but also because Bellinger testified that
13:30
Speaker 1: the police told him who to identify. And Bellinger also
13:34
Speaker 1: testified that he'd only been able to identify the murder
13:36
Speaker 1: weapon as a nine millimeter gun because the police had
13:39
Speaker 1: told him that's what it was.
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Speaker 2: They didn't know the gun that Rodriguez was arrested with
13:45
Speaker 2: was the murder weapon until just before Nelson's trial. And
13:48
Speaker 2: this is a common theme in policing from the NYPD
13:51
Speaker 2: is they don't do any forensic investigation. Okay, so the
13:56
Speaker 2: ballistics from the nine millimeter that Rodriguez has caught with
14:00
Speaker 2: match the shellcases that murdered Trevor Vieira.
14:03
Speaker 3: When the police officer testify, it states that he didn't
14:06
Speaker 3: see me at all. He didn't send me with no gun,
14:08
Speaker 3: he stated, who he's see with the gun? I'm like,
14:10
Speaker 3: I'm gonna go home. And at the end when the
14:13
Speaker 3: tribute came back with the guilty murder, just couldn't believe
14:16
Speaker 3: it and just sent us twenty fe of life. You
14:20
Speaker 3: got the guy with the smoking gun. All five shell
14:23
Speaker 3: cases match that gun. I still can't believe it.
14:35
Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by Stand Together. Stand
14:38
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15:03
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15:14
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15:21
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15:50
Speaker 1: Nelson didn't exactly take this lying down. Instead, you got
15:55
Speaker 1: busy behind bars, right, I mean, tell us about the
15:58
Speaker 1: actual innocence.
16:00
Speaker 3: Like I said, I was sentenced to twenty five years
16:02
Speaker 3: to life. I'd come up state, didn't know anything about
16:06
Speaker 3: the law, and I'm just sitting a little library, acting
16:10
Speaker 3: for help and you know, reading a lot of the
16:12
Speaker 3: statues and trying to familiarize myself. So I ran across
16:16
Speaker 3: you know a lot of good guys and they teaching
16:18
Speaker 3: me about the laws. And at the same time, I'm
16:21
Speaker 3: trying to gather my evidence to submit my affidavits to
16:25
Speaker 3: the Athelet Division. At the time, my director, Pill was pendent.
16:29
Speaker 3: But I couldn't because you know, my family, we're not rich.
16:32
Speaker 3: We're not rich, we we don't got money like that
16:34
Speaker 3: to be hiring private investigator. So I had my mother.
16:37
Speaker 3: She was, you know, going into these dangerous projects, looking
16:40
Speaker 3: for my friends, looking for people that was at the
16:42
Speaker 3: crime scene that night. And with the help with my mother,
16:45
Speaker 3: I was getting phone numbers, and with the phone numbers,
16:47
Speaker 3: I was contacting people's gathering evidence. I had got about
16:51
Speaker 3: maybe two, like two or three AFID Davis at first,
16:53
Speaker 3: and then my brother laid on we had higher a
16:55
Speaker 3: private investigator to locate these witnesses and get affidavis from them.
17:00
Speaker 3: And as I'm submitting these motions to the court. I'm
17:02
Speaker 3: getting shot down. I'm losing hope, but I'm still fighting
17:05
Speaker 3: because I said, listen, something one Day's friend got to
17:08
Speaker 3: give here. I know I ain't commit this firm and
17:10
Speaker 3: to the course of the years me being in prison,
17:11
Speaker 3: I'm hearing of a guy named Bush, which is Derek Hamilton.
17:15
Speaker 3: I don't know if he's familiar with him. He's a
17:16
Speaker 3: jail house William and I'm like, wow, I gotta meet
17:19
Speaker 3: this guy because i heard he's a beast with the lord.
17:21
Speaker 3: So I end up meeting Derek Hamilton in the law
17:23
Speaker 3: library and we exchanged information D five and stuff like that,
17:27
Speaker 3: and I'm explaining to him about my case. He reviewed
17:30
Speaker 3: my d D five. He sees that scot seller name
17:33
Speaker 3: is in the bottom and he's like, wow, this guy's
17:35
Speaker 3: in my case. He loud on me on my case
17:37
Speaker 3: and he's fighting actual editing the same thing. So we
17:41
Speaker 3: leave Shawongong. We end up in Auburn. When we go
17:44
Speaker 3: to Auburn Correction facility again, I'm in Laura live Burn
17:48
Speaker 3: and I meet Shabaka. Shabaka's there a guy by the
17:50
Speaker 3: name of Danny Ringkong. There also fighting his Edizen and
17:54
Speaker 3: Eric ended up a rising. That's when he came up
17:57
Speaker 3: with the name actual Edison Team AI team. And what
18:00
Speaker 3: we was doing was like one day we will work
18:02
Speaker 3: on my case, the next day we will work on
18:05
Speaker 3: Derek case. Like that, We'll take turns on each other
18:07
Speaker 3: case and Derek telling me what the dude right over here,
18:10
Speaker 3: right over here, do this, do that? And that's the
18:12
Speaker 3: same thing that See telling me what to do. I'm
18:13
Speaker 3: learning And basically what I was doing was lawyer shopping.
18:17
Speaker 3: I'm somem inning a big package with all my evidence
18:19
Speaker 3: with my affid Davis my DD five crime scene sketches
18:22
Speaker 3: that I drew trying to get some help from the outside.
18:25
Speaker 3: I wrote every actually interesting project. I wrote governors, I
18:28
Speaker 3: wrote the President, I wrote everywhere Jason, anyway you can
18:31
Speaker 3: think of, I wrote. And at this time Derek ended
18:33
Speaker 3: up going home in twenty eleven. So Derek always told me, listen,
18:38
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna forget about you. Once I'm making home,
18:40
Speaker 3: I'm there.
18:41
Speaker 1: I got you.
18:41
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna forget. And I don't heard that so
18:43
Speaker 3: many times Jason being in here that you know, guys
18:46
Speaker 3: tell you listen, they're gonna go home do this, and
18:48
Speaker 3: guys just go home and live their life. So I'm like, wow, now,
18:51
Speaker 3: I hope Deyk don't do this to me, you know.
18:53
Speaker 3: And Derek went home and kept his word. Jason, he
18:57
Speaker 3: put Justin on my case and from it we gather
19:01
Speaker 3: more evidence and I'm well not today.
19:04
Speaker 1: Derek has been on the show, Danny ringcon Shabaka Shakur.
19:08
Speaker 1: I mean, all these people are people I know well,
19:10
Speaker 1: and I've talked often about the awesome power that you
19:15
Speaker 1: guys collectively manifested, all of whom had been through the
19:18
Speaker 1: same experience at the hands of the same people, and
19:21
Speaker 1: setting up basically a law firm inside the walls of
19:24
Speaker 1: the prison. You know, call it whatever you want, Shakura, Cruz,
19:27
Speaker 1: Hamilton and ring Khon. I could see it on a letterhead,
19:30
Speaker 1: and hopefully someday you guys will actually form a law
19:32
Speaker 1: firm on the outside, because I think you guys would
19:35
Speaker 1: be incredible together. Derek, when he was on Ronful Conviction,
19:39
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, this is like interviewing
19:41
Speaker 1: a yeah law professor. I mean, this guy is on
19:43
Speaker 1: fire so knowledgeable.
19:45
Speaker 2: That is my mentor. By the way, Derek, we call
19:48
Speaker 2: him Mom Google Legal give him a fact and he'll
19:51
Speaker 2: give you a case.
19:52
Speaker 1: And Nelson, you should know it's Derek. But it's not
19:55
Speaker 1: just Derek. I mean, all of us are just super
19:58
Speaker 1: committed to you get home and get on with your life.
20:02
Speaker 2: So Nelson litigated his case, he filed the emotion of vacant,
20:06
Speaker 2: he filed an appeal, and got shot down at every
20:11
Speaker 2: turn over the past twenty years. And so the hearing
20:14
Speaker 2: that we were finally granted in twenty nineteen, and the
20:18
Speaker 2: evidence that we presented was it was quite astounding. I mean, obviously,
20:21
Speaker 2: we called Officer Paietti and again who said that he
20:24
Speaker 2: did not see Nelson Cruz at the scene before, after,
20:26
Speaker 2: or during the crime. We called William Harden, who was
20:29
Speaker 2: across the street watched the ponytailed man kill his friend.
20:34
Speaker 2: He knew Trevor Vieira and did not see Nelson Cruz there.
20:37
Speaker 2: He saw the police pull up at the scene. And
20:39
Speaker 2: then we called William Johnson, who was the other man
20:41
Speaker 2: that was arrested at the scene, and he testified that
20:44
Speaker 2: he knew Nelson Cruz and he did not see Nelson
20:46
Speaker 2: Cruz at the scene. I mean, those are three eye witnesses.
20:49
Speaker 2: We called two alibi witnesses Ralph Johnson, and the only
20:53
Speaker 2: questions that the DA had for Ralph Johnson was did
20:56
Speaker 2: he eat his Chinese food or not that night? That's
20:58
Speaker 2: how solid Ralph Johnson was on the witness stand. Another
21:02
Speaker 2: alibi witness, Bonnie Cooper, who was at the time Andre
21:06
Speaker 2: Bellinger's mistress, testified that Andre Bellinger admitted to her he
21:10
Speaker 2: never saw the crime. Christopher Cooper, Bonnie Cooper's son, who
21:14
Speaker 2: was playing basketball with Andre Bellinger that night. Chris Cooper,
21:17
Speaker 2: testified that Bellinger couldn't have seen it because the shooting
21:20
Speaker 2: had already happened by the time they get there. We
21:22
Speaker 2: also called Jay Salpeter, who was a private investigator who
21:25
Speaker 2: interviewed Andre Bellinger, and he asked, Andre Bellinger, why didn't
21:29
Speaker 2: you mention the police or Edward O. Rodriguez, And Bellinger
21:33
Speaker 2: told j Salpeter that the police never told him that
21:37
Speaker 2: Rodriguez or the police were at the scene, I mean.
21:41
Speaker 2: And we called Jermaine Fraser, the man Shack who Bellinger
21:45
Speaker 2: said started this whole thing off, and Shack testified that
21:48
Speaker 2: he never pulled a gun out on Nelson, that there
21:51
Speaker 2: was never a dispute that night that that's all false.
21:54
Speaker 2: Of course, we called Scarcella and Camill, and you know,
21:57
Speaker 2: Scarcela has amnesia. He can remember what he was wearing
22:00
Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy three, but when you ask him about
22:02
Speaker 2: the case that you're talking about now, he can't remember anything.
22:06
Speaker 2: But Mark Brooks puts him in Camill right with Andre
22:09
Speaker 2: Bellinger before the lineup. I mean, this was such a
22:11
Speaker 2: bad blowout that April twelfth, twenty nineteen, I made an
22:15
Speaker 2: oral argument and also on paper to release Nelson on bail,
22:18
Speaker 2: which is astounding in the middle of a post conviction hearing.
22:22
Speaker 2: It was going that bad that I said, in the
22:24
Speaker 2: interest of justice that this court should release him. And
22:27
Speaker 2: Judge Simpson on that day said that Lewis Garcela was
22:30
Speaker 2: totally involved with this case. Andre Bellinger was unreliable, and
22:34
Speaker 2: that Chris and Bonnie Cooper she found to be reliable witnesses.
22:38
Speaker 2: That was April. By August she was in another place.
22:43
Speaker 3: You know, God bless Chanda what happened. But I knew
22:46
Speaker 3: something strange was going on while she was deciding over
22:49
Speaker 3: my hearing, Jason, she was moving funny, you know, she'd
22:53
Speaker 3: be given credit to certain amount witnesses testimony, and then
22:57
Speaker 3: later on when Justin highlights it to her, it's like
23:00
Speaker 3: she's lost. Jason was like, she don't know, like what
23:03
Speaker 3: happened a couple of days ago. And at the end
23:05
Speaker 3: when I worked for decision on August twenty ninth, she's
23:07
Speaker 3: an emotion. Jason, I was like, Lois, but we found
23:11
Speaker 3: out that, you know, she was mentally ill with alzhemas.
23:14
Speaker 3: Has she been in her right state of mind, I
23:16
Speaker 3: would have been home already.
23:17
Speaker 1: You know, there's no question. You know. Nelson is referring
23:21
Speaker 1: to a very respected judge from the Brooklyn Supreme Court
23:25
Speaker 1: who was known for her willingness to vacate wrongful convictions.
23:28
Speaker 1: Her name which is Shandiah Simpson, and she had ordered
23:31
Speaker 1: due trials previously for other men who had been also
23:34
Speaker 1: framed by Louis Scarcella. Listen to this quote. In the
23:38
Speaker 1: case of someone named Hargrove, Judge Simpson had this to
23:41
Speaker 1: say specifically about Scarcella. The pattern and practice of Scarcella's conduct,
23:47
Speaker 1: which manifests a disregard for rules, law and the truth,
23:52
Speaker 1: undermines our judicial system and gives cause for a new
23:56
Speaker 1: review of the evidence. I mean, she just called it
23:59
Speaker 1: out like it was, and here it is again right
24:01
Speaker 1: in front of her. But the craziest twist of fate
24:05
Speaker 1: was that this poor woman who's not an old lady,
24:08
Speaker 1: she was in her young fifties, she had early on
24:11
Speaker 1: set Alzheimer's, and she just literally lost the plot.
24:15
Speaker 2: When I was listening to her decision on August nine,
24:18
Speaker 2: twenty nineteen, the first decision she read off, I argued orally,
24:23
Speaker 2: she left the bench totally abruptly. A court officer came
24:26
Speaker 2: out and told us to come back after lunch. And
24:28
Speaker 2: when she came back out after lunch, she read off
24:31
Speaker 2: another decision, which I was left wondering what hearing that
24:35
Speaker 2: she sat through. Her decision is based on an erroneous
24:39
Speaker 2: understanding of what we put forward. I mean, it's that
24:42
Speaker 2: we presented Edward Rodriguez as our witness for a self
24:46
Speaker 2: defense claim, which we never took that position. We always
24:49
Speaker 2: took the position at EDWARDO. Rodriguez was the killer. The
24:52
Speaker 2: prosecutor put Edward Rodriguez on the witness stand. So she
24:56
Speaker 2: misstated that, I mean, there's video of it the crust
25:00
Speaker 2: of the.
25:01
Speaker 5: Hearing, and this decision falls on the following Rodriguez testified
25:05
Speaker 5: at his hearing that the victim fired the first shot
25:08
Speaker 5: at Cruise and that Cruise shot back in self defense.
25:11
Speaker 5: The defense claims both that Rodriguez is unreliable and at
25:15
Speaker 5: the same time acts that the court find his testimony
25:18
Speaker 5: supports a claim of self defense and that this constitutes
25:22
Speaker 5: new evidence. For this reason, the motion must be denied.
25:27
Speaker 4: You want to say something.
25:28
Speaker 6: He never claimed that Rodriguez was newly discovered evidence claimed
25:32
Speaker 6: that Rodriguez was unreliable from day one.
25:35
Speaker 2: Well, they put him off. That's the reverence.
25:38
Speaker 7: They put evidence on that contradicted the only evidence that
25:41
Speaker 7: was at trial, which is Andre Balinger right. One witness
25:45
Speaker 7: who says the police told him who did it? Who
25:47
Speaker 7: says the police.
25:48
Speaker 2: Told him what weapmon was used?
25:49
Speaker 7: Who even testifies that the police told him that Cruz
25:52
Speaker 7: was in the lineup.
25:54
Speaker 2: How reliable is that witness?
25:56
Speaker 6: And then we hear from a witness, the witness that
26:01
Speaker 6: is the first person who.
26:02
Speaker 7: Points to Nelson Cruz. He has a motive at guard
26:07
Speaker 7: Agriguez has a motive to lie. And then fifteen years
26:12
Speaker 7: later says its self defense. We don't take his position.
26:17
Speaker 7: That's evidence that day put to four the court. We're
26:21
Speaker 7: gonna believe that on the day of his birthday he
26:24
Speaker 7: kills somebody. Unfortunately, in cases like this, the law doesn't
26:29
Speaker 7: really protect a seventeen year old.
26:33
Speaker 2: I make my point that Rodriguez wasn't our witness, and
26:38
Speaker 2: she calls everybody up to the bench, schedules a reargument.
26:42
Speaker 2: She never provides a written decision and tells us to
26:44
Speaker 2: come back in December of twenty nineteen. We can do
26:47
Speaker 2: twelve sixteen. Be back on twelve. That's a Monday.
26:51
Speaker 1: I've shared this video with the district attorney myself. I
26:56
Speaker 1: like Eric personally. I do have a lot of respect
26:58
Speaker 1: for him. Completely confused as to why this case has
27:02
Speaker 1: been ignored.
27:04
Speaker 3: When I came back from court last year, you know,
27:07
Speaker 3: I pulled down my tite write and I started writing
27:09
Speaker 3: and numerous letters to Ever Gonzales, to people under him,
27:13
Speaker 3: and never received a response.
27:16
Speaker 1: There's a very powerful quote where you said in a
27:19
Speaker 1: letter to Eric Gonzales, I know deep in my heart
27:22
Speaker 1: something went wrong at my hearing. I know me reaching
27:25
Speaker 1: out to you may not be the proper way to
27:26
Speaker 1: go about it, but I truly need help in this
27:28
Speaker 1: matter and feel that you have the power to step
27:30
Speaker 1: in and conduct an investigation, and of course a year
27:34
Speaker 1: after the hearing, in early August twenty twenty, it was
27:36
Speaker 1: confirmed that Judge Simpson had early on said Alzheimer's and
27:39
Speaker 1: she retired.
27:40
Speaker 3: You know, they should be a shame of what they're
27:42
Speaker 3: doing with me. Something went wrong, Domani the seed and
27:47
Speaker 3: something was wrong with the judge. And you got the
27:49
Speaker 3: power the empazine, You got to see all you yould
27:52
Speaker 3: to do, which you know, I think ever since Kenneth
27:55
Speaker 3: Thompson died, they not following with Kenneth Thompson was gone.
28:17
Speaker 1: So justin a reargument was granted. It's tragic what happened
28:21
Speaker 1: for Judge Sandaiah Simpson. What the fuck happens now?
28:25
Speaker 2: So, in a normal course, the judge will issue a
28:27
Speaker 2: written decision, the court will enter the decision. She granted
28:32
Speaker 2: the motion to reargue, which is very very very rare.
28:35
Speaker 2: She never issues a written decision. The court doesn't even
28:39
Speaker 2: enter this decision, which is what has to be done.
28:42
Speaker 2: So almost a year goes by and in August of
28:46
Speaker 2: twenty twenty, we find out that Judge Simpson has been
28:49
Speaker 2: diagnosed with Alzheimer's. So then Judge Demik, the administrative judge,
28:53
Speaker 2: assigns Raymond L. Rodriguez to the case, so we file
28:58
Speaker 2: the reargument, and Judge Roguez told us that he wouldn't
29:02
Speaker 2: hear any of these filings, that the only thing that
29:05
Speaker 2: was in front of him was Judge Simpson's competency during
29:09
Speaker 2: the hearing and when she rendered her decision.
29:12
Speaker 1: Right, but which decision, the initial denial of the motion
29:16
Speaker 1: to vacate or the decision to grant a reargument.
29:19
Speaker 2: You bring up a phenomenal point. This is a very
29:22
Speaker 2: confusing procedural history. He tells us in January of twenty
29:26
Speaker 2: twenty one that the motion to reargue was taken off
29:30
Speaker 2: the calendar. He was not going to hear it. The
29:34
Speaker 2: only thing he ruled on is her oral decision denying
29:38
Speaker 2: the motion to vacate the conviction and the motion to
29:41
Speaker 2: vacate her decision based upon her competency. He basically says
29:45
Speaker 2: that I'm not going to deal with the fact that
29:47
Speaker 2: she granted reargument, which I don't know how he does
29:50
Speaker 2: that she already granted it. And then on March first,
29:54
Speaker 2: twenty twenty one, Judge Raymond Rodriguez determined that she was
29:57
Speaker 2: competent and upheld her oral decision to deny Nelson Cruz's
30:01
Speaker 2: motion to vacate. And it's very interesting because in our
30:05
Speaker 2: motion to vacate Judge Simpson's decision that we filed back
30:09
Speaker 2: on August of twenty twenty, we had an affidavit from
30:12
Speaker 2: an investigator that spoke to her husband. We also had
30:15
Speaker 2: a pro public article where the husband spoke and said
30:18
Speaker 2: that he had noticed that Judge Simpson's mental health had
30:20
Speaker 2: been slipping as far back as the summer of twenty eighteen,
30:24
Speaker 2: which is almost a year before Nelson Cruz's actual hearing,
30:28
Speaker 2: let alone the decision. So Judge Rodriguez said that all
30:31
Speaker 2: of that information was speculative and said, I see how
30:35
Speaker 2: she could come to her decision. There's a reasonable basis
30:38
Speaker 2: for her decision. I don't know how he comes to
30:40
Speaker 2: that decision because he's not a doctor, and to be frank,
30:43
Speaker 2: I mean, he's not a mind reader. So Judge Rodriguez's decision,
30:48
Speaker 2: we filing leave to appeal. We're also filing a motion
30:52
Speaker 2: to compel a written decision from the Supreme Court because
30:56
Speaker 2: it's our position that Judge Simpson's oral decision wasn't effectively
31:01
Speaker 2: a decision. It was never filed. It it was never signed
31:04
Speaker 2: off on by her, and how could she sign off
31:07
Speaker 2: on it. Two days after she was in court and
31:09
Speaker 2: rendered that decision, she went on medical leaf because she
31:12
Speaker 2: was suffering from Alzheimer's.
31:17
Speaker 1: When we last spoke, you were at Woodburn Correctional Facility
31:20
Speaker 1: in upstate New York in the middle of appealing Judge
31:23
Speaker 1: Rodriguez's decision. So what happened with that appeal?
31:26
Speaker 4: After I exhausted my state post conviction appeals, we filed
31:30
Speaker 4: the second successive petition to the federal court, and on
31:34
Speaker 4: May two, twenty twenty two, I was granted entry into
31:38
Speaker 4: the second Circuit. And if they granted me entry, it's
31:41
Speaker 4: because they see my constitution in violations. And I believe
31:44
Speaker 4: deeply in my heart that any day my case is
31:47
Speaker 4: going to be overturned.
31:48
Speaker 1: You know, And that's how it should have been back
31:50
Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen, had Judge Simpson been in better health.
31:53
Speaker 1: And we hope only the best for her, of course,
31:56
Speaker 1: So while your case was making its way through federal
31:59
Speaker 1: court into the I was in twenty two, having already
32:01
Speaker 1: served twenty five years. You also became eligible for parole
32:05
Speaker 1: and went in front of the board.
32:07
Speaker 4: The day that they bought my decision December twenty second,
32:10
Speaker 4: twenty twenty two. I was in the trailer. You know
32:14
Speaker 4: it's the trailer.
32:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's where they allow conjugal visits and for the audience.
32:18
Speaker 1: Nelson's wife, Verica. They got married about ten years ago
32:20
Speaker 1: and she's been fighting alongside him for longer than that.
32:24
Speaker 1: So anyway, go on.
32:25
Speaker 4: When they bought my decision, I was in the trailer
32:27
Speaker 4: with my wife and a parole officer came. So he's like, so,
32:31
Speaker 4: you went to parole two weeks ago. I said, yes, sir.
32:34
Speaker 4: He said, do you want your decision. When he said that,
32:37
Speaker 4: I started getting nervous already, because I could have sworn
32:39
Speaker 4: I was going to get smacked for two years. He
32:42
Speaker 4: handed me over. The decision was a two page letter.
32:44
Speaker 4: So as I'm trying to flick the page, He's like,
32:46
Speaker 4: he see that I'm nervous. So he said, let me
32:48
Speaker 4: help you out. So he flipped the page and went
32:51
Speaker 4: straight to the date. He said, there goes what you're
32:54
Speaker 4: looking for. When I look it said March thirtieth, twenty
32:57
Speaker 4: twenty three, my release date. Just started crying. I just couldn't.
33:02
Speaker 4: I couldn't believe it. With the parole officer. He said, listen,
33:05
Speaker 4: if it was bad news, I wouldn't come here and
33:07
Speaker 4: ruin your day. I wouldn't do that. So he said, uh,
33:11
Speaker 4: you know, merry Christmas, congratulations, and go back and enjoy yourself,
33:15
Speaker 4: you know. And I went back, and when I told
33:17
Speaker 4: my wife, my wife just went crazy on the trailer.
33:19
Speaker 4: She started crying. So the little evening was emotional that day.
33:22
Speaker 4: It was. It was emotional.
33:24
Speaker 1: I can't even begin to imagine. And what a Christmas
33:27
Speaker 1: present for everyone. So March thirtieth, twenty twenty three came around,
33:31
Speaker 1: and you know, I wasn't gonna miss it. We even
33:34
Speaker 1: got footage of it when you came out at the
33:36
Speaker 1: doors into Erica's arms as she held your little baby.
33:39
Speaker 4: Girl, when the door popped open and I walked out.
33:52
Speaker 4: Minutes before that, I was in the back of that
33:54
Speaker 4: door getting dressed, you know, preparing myself, Like wow, I
33:57
Speaker 4: still couldn't believe, Like, while I'm out of here, I
33:59
Speaker 4: can't believe after tween saying years, I'm walking out to
34:02
Speaker 4: the streets and streets that I haven't been in since
34:04
Speaker 4: sixteen years old. I still can't believe it that I'm home.
34:08
Speaker 4: I still can't believe it. So I came home in time.
34:12
Speaker 4: My baby was only eight months going on nine months.
34:15
Speaker 4: I'm enjoying myself with my wife home and my baby,
34:19
Speaker 4: and I just go to work, come back and I'm
34:23
Speaker 4: just loving life. Life is beautiful. I mean, I get
34:26
Speaker 4: on these trains when it's traffic time and people be
34:29
Speaker 4: so frustrated because the trains is packed. And guess what,
34:34
Speaker 4: Nelson is happy. Nelson is happy to be on this train.
34:38
Speaker 4: When anybody you know frustrated that the train is packed,
34:42
Speaker 4: you know they late. I'm just smiling. I'm just loving life.
34:46
Speaker 4: Every day that I wake up. Life is great.
34:49
Speaker 1: You know, an experience like yours could really put the
34:52
Speaker 1: day to day annoyances of life into perspective. And it does.
34:56
Speaker 1: And I understand you've got not one, but two jobs.
35:01
Speaker 1: But I know while you were inside, you and Derek Hamilton,
35:03
Speaker 1: Shabacca Shakur or Danny Rincon, you guys were the actual
35:06
Speaker 1: Innocence Team or AI team. Are you still working at
35:10
Speaker 1: that out here?
35:11
Speaker 4: I work as an exterminator. My second job, I'm a
35:14
Speaker 4: paralegal at a civil firm, and I'm helping the innocent.
35:19
Speaker 4: I'm still here helping the innocent, and I'm not going
35:21
Speaker 4: to stop. I'm not going to figure about those good
35:24
Speaker 4: brothers I left behind. I'm researching for them, I'm filing
35:27
Speaker 4: for us for them. I'm helping them to the best
35:29
Speaker 4: of my ability, trying to help brothers behind the wall.
35:32
Speaker 4: They can't move, it's crippled.
35:34
Speaker 1: Well, hopefully we can get Danny out here real soon
35:36
Speaker 1: to join the rest of the team. And in the meantime,
35:39
Speaker 1: I'm really glad to hear that you've acclimated well. You're
35:42
Speaker 1: working hard, two jobs, you have an amazing wife, and
35:44
Speaker 1: you're a new dad. I got to ask, what's your
35:47
Speaker 1: favorite part about being a dad?
35:49
Speaker 4: My favorite part right now is when I come from
35:51
Speaker 4: work and I put the key in the door, and
35:54
Speaker 4: my daughter here the door, and once she see me,
35:57
Speaker 4: she start crawling to the door, real fat. I love it.
36:00
Speaker 4: I get emotional. This is my world here, This little
36:03
Speaker 4: girl is everything to me. She had dive out the
36:07
Speaker 4: sofa and hit the floor and just start crawling to
36:10
Speaker 4: the door. She grabs onto my pants and stands up
36:13
Speaker 4: and starts screaming at me to pick up. I love it.
36:17
Speaker 1: That's beautiful, man, I love it well. The love of
36:20
Speaker 1: a good team and I are so happy for you,
36:21
Speaker 1: and I hope you get a win in federal court
36:24
Speaker 1: and finally fully put this to rest. But if not,
36:27
Speaker 1: maybe we can get you in the Brooklyn Conviction Review Unit,
36:29
Speaker 1: and I'm looking forward to getting together again. So with that,
36:34
Speaker 1: we've come to closing arguments, and since your case isn't
36:37
Speaker 1: fully resolved, I'm going to leave Justin's as it was,
36:40
Speaker 1: as it is, but let's get a new one from you,
36:43
Speaker 1: because you've got a whole new life and a whole
36:44
Speaker 1: new outlook. So I'm going to kick it off with
36:48
Speaker 1: Justin's and then it'll go right over to you.
36:52
Speaker 2: I just want to make it clear to everybody that
36:54
Speaker 2: this is a disgrace. The mountains of evidence show that
36:58
Speaker 2: this man is innocent, and the DA's office has the
37:02
Speaker 2: ability to interview our witnesses. Our witnesses were consistent in
37:07
Speaker 2: the conviction review process. Their witnesses weren't consistent, and believe me,
37:11
Speaker 2: they treated our witnesses differently than they treated their witnesses,
37:14
Speaker 2: and this is just it's disgraceful. Andre Bellinger came in
37:19
Speaker 2: in twenty nineteen and he said his trial testimony was truthful.
37:24
Speaker 2: He maintained his trial testimony, which is that they told
37:27
Speaker 2: him what type of gun was used. They told him
37:30
Speaker 2: that it was Nelson Cruz. They told him EDWARDO. Rodriguez
37:33
Speaker 2: wasn't reliable. They told him they needed him because EDWARDO.
37:37
Speaker 2: Rodriguez wasn't reliable. They told him that Nelson Cruz was
37:40
Speaker 2: going to be in the lineup. This is the only
37:43
Speaker 2: piece of evidence that convicted Nelson Cruz. I don't really
37:48
Speaker 2: know if I have to say anything more other than
37:51
Speaker 2: you heard what I said about what was presented at
37:53
Speaker 2: the hearing. And that's without saying that Scarcela and Stephen
37:56
Speaker 2: Camill were involved in this case. To top it off,
37:58
Speaker 2: they were involved. If ever, there was a case that
38:03
Speaker 2: was presented in court where clear and convincing evidence was
38:06
Speaker 2: presented that a man was actually innocent, it was Nelson
38:09
Speaker 2: Cruz's case.
38:11
Speaker 4: I'm going hard. My freedom is nothing gonna change now
38:14
Speaker 4: that I'm home. Like they made it easier for me now,
38:17
Speaker 4: I could just walk to these courts and be a
38:19
Speaker 4: pain in the butt until my conviction be overturned. I
38:24
Speaker 4: just can't believe that I did twenty five years for
38:28
Speaker 4: someone else murder. I mean, I have police officers that
38:32
Speaker 4: came forward the court. You know how clear could this get?
38:38
Speaker 4: I was released. I'm on parole. You know, I'm blessed
38:40
Speaker 4: that I have two jobs, because you know, out in
38:43
Speaker 4: society with a felony going to get jobs. You just
38:46
Speaker 4: staying for the rest of your life. I'm gonna just
38:49
Speaker 4: keep fighting now that I'm home, even harder. I'm about
38:52
Speaker 4: to do a rally at City Hall, and I just
38:55
Speaker 4: want my voice to be heard. And if I got
38:57
Speaker 4: to be standing in front of the Discal Attorney office
38:59
Speaker 4: every day, knocking on his door until my conviction be overturned,
39:04
Speaker 4: That's what I'm gonna do. I couldn't do that from prison.
39:06
Speaker 4: I'm not going to bow down to these people. I'm
39:08
Speaker 4: not not for crime. I didn't commit.
39:17
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. I want to
39:20
Speaker 1: thank our production team Connor Hall, Andy Chelsea, Lyla Robinson,
39:24
Speaker 1: as well as my fellow executive producers Jeff Kempler Kevin Warders,
39:27
Speaker 1: said Jeff Cleiber. The music in this production, as always,
39:30
Speaker 1: was supplied by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph.
39:33
Speaker 1: Make sure you follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction
39:36
Speaker 1: on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction podcast and on Twitter at
39:40
Speaker 1: wrong Conviction, as well as at Lava for Good. On
39:43
Speaker 1: all three platforms, you can also follow me on Instagram
39:46
Speaker 1: at it's Jason Flab. Wrongful Conviction is a production of
39:49
Speaker 1: Lava for Good podcast and association with signal Company Number
39:52
Speaker 1: one