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8 Steps To Become A Sales Machine · The Empire of Wealth

0:00
Speaker 1: Chris Doe just sat down with me to share his
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Speaker 1: brutally honest advice to become a sales machine. Chris and
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Speaker 1: I have a combined 50 years of business experience and
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Speaker 1: we've sold to some of the biggest companies in the world.
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Speaker 1: There isn't a thing we don't know about sales. Here
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Speaker 1: are the eight brutally honest steps that will get you
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Speaker 1: more sales than you can ever imagine. Chris, what are
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Speaker 1: we going to learn today?
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Speaker 2: Number one, say what you think. Most of us are
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Speaker 2: afraid to ask for what we want, clarifying information, budget, scope,
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Speaker 2: all that kind of stuff. And there's a lot of
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Speaker 2: tension and resistance that builds up in us. And we
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Speaker 2: think the stress comes from saying it. Or what I've
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Speaker 2: learned in my life is the way to release stress
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Speaker 2: and tension is actually speaking out loud. The example I
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Speaker 2: like to give to people is if you have a
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Speaker 2: friend who's staying with you and has overstayed the welcome
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Speaker 2: and is creating tension between you and your wife or
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Speaker 2: your partner, that's the tension part. The part that you're
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Speaker 2: afraid of doing is like, buddy, yeah, so can you
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Speaker 2: find another place to stay? Because my wife and I,
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Speaker 2: we need to get on with our lives. And so
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Speaker 2: when we were able to say it, all of a
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Speaker 2: sudden that stress that we've been feeling is automatically released
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Speaker 2: and now we're good. So I learned this lesson early
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Speaker 2: on in my business life when I hired a business coach,
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Speaker 2: when he audited my sales call. And he asked me
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Speaker 2: this question, he's like, how do you know what the
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Speaker 2: clients want? And I was like, what do you mean?
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Speaker 2: I'm supposed to know I'm the designer, the director. They
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Speaker 2: give us a script and I start spitting or pitching
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Speaker 2: ideas to them. Isn't that how it's supposed to work?
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Speaker 2: He goes, no. If you had them in front of you,
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Speaker 2: what would you want to know? Well, what inspired this idea?
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Speaker 2: And then he asked me, why don't you ever just
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Speaker 2: ask that question? And I thought it was crass to
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Speaker 2: be able to ask people what they want. Like in
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Speaker 2: your relationship with your wife, where do we eat? What
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Speaker 2: kind of cake would you like? And you would want
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Speaker 2: to know those things. But if you ask, then all
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Speaker 2: of a sudden, some of the romance and the magic
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Speaker 2: is taken away. So we're supposed to use some magical
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Speaker 2: powers of observation and just intuit what people want. That's
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Speaker 2: a silly way to do it because I would rather
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Speaker 2: ask than guess and be wrong. So say what you think.
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Speaker 2: So when you want to know what the budget is,
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Speaker 2: just ask him, what's the budget? If you want to
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Speaker 2: know how many people are pitching on the project, ask
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Speaker 2: him how many other people are pitching on the project.
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Speaker 2: He gave me permission to ask and say what I think.
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Speaker 2: and to say it in the most simplest way possible.
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Speaker 2: And at first, it throws people off because they're not
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Speaker 2: used to that kind of direct level of communication.
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Speaker 1: Well, most clients, when you say, what's the budget? They'll say, well,
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Speaker 1: we're still thinking about it. They don't necessarily like you
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Speaker 1: asking it. Right.
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Speaker 2: Or if you ask how many other people are bidding
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Speaker 2: on the project, they don't want to tell you. They
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Speaker 2: want to keep it a secret. They think that revealing
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Speaker 2: some information, you're going to take advantage of them. My
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Speaker 2: whole thing is, if you're dealing with a real business person,
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Speaker 2: an entrepreneur on the other side, We understand for us
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Speaker 2: to do business together, we must provide information that is
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Speaker 2: critical to us solving the problem. So you want to
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Speaker 2: hold that as a secret? That's cool, but then maybe
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Speaker 2: I'm not the right person for you. Yeah, exactly.
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Speaker 1: I actually once asked a client how many other people
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Speaker 1: are pitching for the project. They told me 18 people.
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Speaker 1: I instantly stopped working with them. They're just using you.
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Speaker 1: They're just trying to get ideas out of you. Working
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Speaker 1: with two people, maybe three people, you can understand. I
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Speaker 1: just think that By asking awkward questions, you think they're awkward,
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Speaker 1: but they will actually save you a lot of pain
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Speaker 1: later if you actually understand how the other person thinks.
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Speaker 2: So what you think, say it. Connect these two things.
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Speaker 2: They're the same. So otherwise, you're going to deal with
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Speaker 2: all this weird anxiety in here, and that's how we
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Speaker 2: get rid of it.
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Speaker 1: I think I've been married 23 years. I think that's basically,
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Speaker 1: I tell my wife, just tell me exactly what you want,
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Speaker 1: and then I know what to do. Just make it
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Speaker 1: easy for me. I love you, and I want to
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Speaker 1: make it work.
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Speaker 2: How's that going for you?
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Speaker 1: So far, so good. Every other week, we think about
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Speaker 1: getting a divorce, but so far, so good. Eventually she
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Speaker 1: tells me and then I can say yes or no.
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Speaker 1: I can do what she needs to have a good life.
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Speaker 2: Number two, questions are greater than answers. What I would
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Speaker 2: do is if I were in a workshop with people
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Speaker 2: who are trying to learn sales, I would ask them
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Speaker 2: these questions like, what do you believe is more valuable,
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Speaker 2: more powerful questions or answers? And then there's some debate.
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Speaker 2: And it's one of those kinds of questions where there's
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Speaker 2: really not a right answer or wrong answer. And eventually
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Speaker 2: some people will say answers. I'm like, okay, let's talk
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Speaker 2: about that. And some people will say questions. So they
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Speaker 2: answer people, they would say something like, Well, answers are
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Speaker 2: more powerful because, you know, in school you have the answers.
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Speaker 2: You're a smart one. You get all the questions on
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Speaker 2: the test correct. You get an A. You go to university.
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Speaker 2: You get a scholarship. You get a grant. You move
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Speaker 2: on in life. I said, okay, how about you question people?
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Speaker 2: Like questions are more powerful. I'm like, why? And they
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Speaker 2: would say all these things. And I said, well, if
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Speaker 2: you believe that questions are more powerful than answers. Why
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Speaker 2: did you answer a question with an answer? What questions
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Speaker 2: do is they open conversations, answers close conversation. And the
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Speaker 2: problem that most of us have is we presume to
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Speaker 2: know and understand the question. So we provide an answer
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Speaker 2: because we're trained like dogs. Now, if you and I
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Speaker 2: are talking and we're talking about sales, sales is essentially
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Speaker 2: you desire some future state. You have a desired future
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Speaker 2: state and you have your current state. And what sales
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Speaker 2: would be is to try to help you change. to
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Speaker 2: improve your life or to remove pain, either one is good.
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Speaker 2: So before I can give you a solution, I need
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Speaker 2: to know where are you now and where would you
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Speaker 2: like to be? And so oftentimes when the client would
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Speaker 2: say to you, like, I need a logo, like in
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Speaker 2: that example with the woman you will speak to later today,
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Speaker 2: she should have asked you more questions, but she was
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Speaker 2: like a deer in the headlights, of course. So she
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Speaker 2: should have said, why do you need a logo? What
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Speaker 2: is wrong with the current logo that you have today?
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Speaker 2: What is it that you're looking for and have a
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Speaker 2: dialogue with you? So one of the things that happens
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Speaker 2: is when you ask questions, you make this person, the
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Speaker 2: person in front of you, feel really important, heard, seen,
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Speaker 2: and possibly understood. And those are feelings that are close
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Speaker 2: to love. Because in relationships where you don't feel seen
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Speaker 2: and heard or understood, you don't have those positive emotions.
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Speaker 2: And so no business is going to be done if
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Speaker 2: I'm in a negative state of mind. So what I
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Speaker 2: want to do is encourage people, wherever it is that
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Speaker 2: you're in front of, learn how to ask a really
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Speaker 2: great question, an open-ended question, that isn't baked in with
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Speaker 2: an agenda or is a binary thing that's leading down
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Speaker 2: to a very specific path.
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Speaker 1: I love this point. I've built a whole career. What's
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Speaker 1: your dream? A totally open question that allows you to
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Speaker 1: figure out where someone is in their stages of life instantly.
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Speaker 1: By their answer, you can understand where they are in life.
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Speaker 1: My seven-year-old the other day answered something. He didn't actually
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Speaker 1: know the answer. It's baked into us to like, I
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Speaker 1: know it.
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Speaker 2: I know the answer.
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Speaker 1: He didn't, but he gave an answer. it's something we
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Speaker 1: should really reset in ourselves because it's naturally in us
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Speaker 1: to ask questions to understand the person we're talking to.
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Speaker 1: But for some reason, we think we need to have
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Speaker 1: the answers.
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Speaker 2: So there's a shift here, Simon. We've been taught to
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Speaker 2: be great problem solvers. So we're really quick to rush
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Speaker 2: to the solution. If we just spent more time understanding
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Speaker 2: what the problem is, we're going to build the natural rapport,
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Speaker 2: possibly empathy, and see angles and problems we hadn't been
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Speaker 2: privy to until we ask those kinds of questions. So
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Speaker 2: we want to shift away from being problem solvers to
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Speaker 2: problem seekers. What's a good problem? We need to solve
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Speaker 2: a big problem, a problem that's going to be impactful
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Speaker 2: to your business. So if you want to get more deals,
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Speaker 2: stop selling, start closing, ask better questions. Number three, listening,
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Speaker 2: believe it or not, is your secret power. What people
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Speaker 2: do oftentimes, they ask a question and they just stop
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Speaker 2: listening because people ask questions or just wait for an
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Speaker 2: opportunity to speak again. So we're not in conversation to understand,
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Speaker 2: we're in conversation to respond. So the way I can
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Speaker 2: tell is if somebody asks me a question and I
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Speaker 2: give them the answer, you give me a question, I
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Speaker 2: give you an answer. And what you do is you
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Speaker 2: give me another question, you get another answer. And we
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Speaker 2: see this in interviews a lot. I would tell people,
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Speaker 2: I don't like being on podcasts where there are checklist interviewers.
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Speaker 2: Maybe you know them. Maybe you've done it. Maybe I've
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Speaker 2: done it. I don't know. When you have a list
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Speaker 2: of questions and you're like, it doesn't really matter what
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Speaker 2: you say.
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Speaker 1: Because you're not listening to the person and what they're saying.
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Speaker 1: So you're not following a story.
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Speaker 2: Not at all.
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Speaker 1: You're just following the list.
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Speaker 2: I'll say something that's weird, shocking, and disturbing. Like, whoa.
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Speaker 2: And then just move on to the next question. So
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Speaker 2: I know they don't even care. So the thing is,
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Speaker 2: if you ask a question and they give you an answer,
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Speaker 2: now you must listen. And listening requires a lot of
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Speaker 2: brain power. I'm sorry, this is a bad brain. But
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Speaker 2: you have to really think.
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Speaker 1: It does look like my brain.
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Speaker 2: Only the marker. Only the marker. So it's like, I
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Speaker 2: have to process what does this mean? I have to
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Speaker 2: literally understand the words, unpack what we'll refer to as
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Speaker 2: suitcase words. Suitcase words are words that have multiple meanings
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Speaker 2: inside them. So you have to unpack that and really understand.
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Speaker 2: And then we have to like read the subtext. What
8:08
Speaker 2: are they not saying in what they're saying? So if
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Speaker 2: you ask your wife, is it okay if I go
8:13
Speaker 2: and hang out with the crew for lunch? And she's like, whatever.
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Speaker 2: You're like, cool, I got permission. You're not understanding subtext there.
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Speaker 2: You don't understand tone. You're missing everything. So you better
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Speaker 2: stop in your tracks and say, wait a minute, something
8:25
Speaker 2: is wrong. Maybe I've done something prior to this moment.
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Speaker 2: I need to go and figure this out. So when
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Speaker 2: you ask a really good question, the thing that you
8:32
Speaker 2: want to do is just listen and then ask another
8:34
Speaker 2: question about the answer you just got. Until you reach-
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Speaker 2: I think so. And then there are threads that you
8:44
Speaker 2: can pull on. And I think sometimes people do this
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Speaker 2: subconsciously to see if, what they say matters to you.
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Speaker 2: I think Kevin Daly writes about this in his book,
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Speaker 2: Socratic Selling. It's called full value listening. And it's telling
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Speaker 2: the other person everything that you say is really, really important.
9:01
Speaker 2: So I suggest people take notes. So we can get
9:03
Speaker 2: a little notebook out. And there's this idea that eye
9:08
Speaker 2: contact is really important. And I have a problem with
9:11
Speaker 2: eye contact, mostly because I'm an introvert. When somebody is
9:14
Speaker 2: looking at me, when I'm telling them very complicated things,
9:18
Speaker 2: The whole time I'm thinking, are you going to remember
9:20
Speaker 2: any of this? But if somebody's got a notebook on,
9:23
Speaker 2: they're like, yes, sir. Okay. You know when they have
9:26
Speaker 2: restaurants where they're taught not to write down your order?
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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm always amazed when they can do it.
9:32
Speaker 2: But you're also terrified the whole time. Like, are you
9:34
Speaker 2: going to get my lactose intolerant, gluten-free diet right? And
9:38
Speaker 2: I like my protein or whatever, prepare it a certain way.
9:41
Speaker 2: And it's amazing, but it's very... I think so. And
9:46
Speaker 2: it says you're really important. Think about the most important people, CEOs,
9:49
Speaker 2: presidents of countries or corporations. You know who's in charge
9:52
Speaker 2: because they're speaking and everyone else is doing this. Because
9:55
Speaker 2: what you say is important. So I would say take
9:57
Speaker 2: notes and let people know. I'm not looking at you
10:00
Speaker 2: because I think what you say matters and I don't
10:03
Speaker 2: want to miss anything we need to listen to understand
10:06
Speaker 2: right versus to listen to respond and that's the problem
10:12
Speaker 2: so even when you think the person's done speaking wait
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Speaker 2: three seconds Make sure. And if you say something and
10:22
Speaker 2: they're about to say something, stop. You're just so excited
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Speaker 2: to say things and to prove that you're smart, that
10:27
Speaker 2: what you're doing is you're just being really annoying. It's true. Yeah.
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Speaker 1: I mean, being patient and listening is so powerful. I
10:33
Speaker 1: think it's something, it's a skill that you think is
10:35
Speaker 1: saying nothing. It shouldn't be a skill, but it kind
10:37
Speaker 1: of is. Control your mind and your impulse too.
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Speaker 2: So if we can just learn to stop, pause, listen,
10:43
Speaker 2: fully process what's going on, ask deep follow-up questions, we're
10:46
Speaker 2: going to do ourselves a giant favor. Here's the good
10:48
Speaker 2: news for most of you. Listening is one of the
10:51
Speaker 2: most natural things you can do. It requires almost no
10:53
Speaker 2: skill that you have to develop. You just have to
10:56
Speaker 2: be quiet and process. The quietest amongst us, the most
10:59
Speaker 2: introverted person I know, this, in fact, is your superpower.
11:04
Speaker 1: If you want to increase your sales, one of the
11:06
Speaker 1: smartest things you can do early on is build trust.
11:09
Speaker 1: And a simple way to do that, a professional-looking domain name.
11:12
Speaker 1: Just like Chris Du is emphasizing, perception is everything. And
11:15
Speaker 1: the right domain name instantly elevates how your brand is seen.
11:20
Speaker 1: I always recommend starting with a domain name that instantly
11:23
Speaker 1: communicates what you do, especially if you're selling something online.
11:26
Speaker 1: That's why I love using. store for e-commerce businesses. Big
11:30
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11:33
Speaker 1: it's clean and clear and tells customers exactly what to do.
11:37
Speaker 1: In fact, websites with. store domains have seen up to
11:41
Speaker 1: 87% more traffic and double the Google ranking, which means
11:44
Speaker 1: more visibility and more sales. Right now, you can grab
11:47
Speaker 1: your own. store domain, just 99 cents using the code SIMON,
11:51
Speaker 1: at the link in the description. And when you do,
11:53
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11:57
Speaker 1: worth of perks from top tools like Canva, Shopify, and more.
12:02
Speaker 1: You can buy your. store domain through GoDaddy or Namecheap,
12:05
Speaker 1: but the discount code only works for the link below.
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Speaker 2: Number four, never justify. Pathological liars tend to think that
12:11
Speaker 2: by explaining and over-explaining and providing an excruciating amount of
12:15
Speaker 2: detail to things, that their lie has credibility. And so
12:19
Speaker 2: one of the signs of pathological liars is they tend
12:21
Speaker 2: to be overly verbose. They say so much. So when
12:24
Speaker 2: somebody asks you, what's your price? Say it's $ 1, 000. Stop.
12:30
Speaker 2: Full stop. Don't say any more. The other way that
12:32
Speaker 2: I see people do it, it's like, it's $ 1, 000 because
12:34
Speaker 2: I work really hard. You know, I went to this
12:35
Speaker 2: school and you have a lot of different needs and
12:37
Speaker 2: there's a lot of touch points. It makes you sound really,
12:39
Speaker 2: really weak. And the reason why I think you're saying
12:42
Speaker 2: it and justifying is because you don't believe it yourself.
12:46
Speaker 2: And I pick up on that. You're signaling to the
12:48
Speaker 2: other person, this, I'm inexperienced. I think I might've charged
12:52
Speaker 2: more than I think I'm worth. I don't know if
12:54
Speaker 2: you need this. There's all kinds of things about that, right?
12:57
Speaker 2: And here's how we make it personal because we're going
12:59
Speaker 2: to get into dating. If you were to meet somebody
13:01
Speaker 2: that's really attractive and you say like, would you like
13:03
Speaker 2: to go on a date? And they say to you,
13:05
Speaker 2: why would I date you? I'm like, there's no reason.
13:07
Speaker 2: I would just get up and walk away. Why do
13:09
Speaker 2: you hold such superior position over me that you're going
13:12
Speaker 2: to ask me to justify myself to you? And if
13:15
Speaker 2: I have to, the relationship is going to be lopsided
13:17
Speaker 2: and you're going to be abused the entire time. I
13:20
Speaker 2: would say to them, I'm curious about why you think
13:24
Speaker 2: I should date you. I just flip it on them.
13:27
Speaker 2: And no one likes that. So you didn't like the question.
13:30
Speaker 2: Why did you ask me that same question? We arrive
13:33
Speaker 2: in a business relationship as equals. There are things that
13:36
Speaker 2: you do to cede higher ground and justifying is one
13:39
Speaker 2: of them. So never justify. Just say what you believe
13:41
Speaker 2: and stop. Even if you don't believe it, just stop
13:43
Speaker 2: and see what happens. bite your tongue it's.
13:46
Speaker 1: So true it's so true i was just thinking the
13:48
Speaker 1: other day um someone asked me to a speaking gig
13:51
Speaker 1: and i said 50 000 us dollars for the fee
13:53
Speaker 1: and just the text i didn't say anything after and
13:55
Speaker 1: then i could see they were thinking about that and
13:57
Speaker 1: then they sent me a message why so high and
13:59
Speaker 1: i said i said to them i don't need to
14:01
Speaker 1: explain it it's a yes or no really isn't it
14:03
Speaker 1: you said that yeah okay they said yes oh but
14:08
Speaker 1: but my point is you know You know, like I
14:11
Speaker 1: can try to explain that, you know, I've been in
14:12
Speaker 1: business 35 years. I could be doing other things during
14:15
Speaker 1: that time. I could probably do a video that make
14:17
Speaker 1: that money or spend time talking to the audience they
14:19
Speaker 1: want me to talk to. I could do that. And
14:22
Speaker 1: I do think it starts to belittle the thing that
14:24
Speaker 1: I believe to be true, that I have value. So
14:27
Speaker 1: it's an interesting thing because, again, when clients in particular,
14:29
Speaker 1: people listen to this and they're pitching to a client,
14:31
Speaker 1: a client wants you to justify it so that they
14:33
Speaker 1: end up in the power dynamic of being in control
14:35
Speaker 1: of the contract. Whereas if you don't explain it, it's
14:38
Speaker 1: really powerful. Yeah, I think there's two concepts attached to this.
14:42
Speaker 1: And I'm no wordsmith person here, but there's the word
14:47
Speaker 1: just and there's the word justice that must be related
14:50
Speaker 1: to the word justify. When I think of justice, I
14:53
Speaker 1: think of the scales of justice, like it's all balanced, right?
14:56
Speaker 1: And so they say, well, there's a big price and
14:58
Speaker 1: they need to know this other thing. They need to
15:00
Speaker 1: find balance in that. It is not my job to
15:03
Speaker 1: tell you why it's worth this. It's my job to
15:05
Speaker 1: provide you the information that you need to ask you smart,
15:09
Speaker 1: open-ended questions so that you can determine if what I
15:12
Speaker 1: do is worth the amount of money.
15:14
Speaker 2: That's it. And the word just, we know that if
15:16
Speaker 2: you put the word just in front of anything, what
15:18
Speaker 2: just does is it diminishes that thing. It's just cleaning
15:22
Speaker 2: the car. It's just another change order. It can't be
15:26
Speaker 2: that hard. So people use this language to make what
15:29
Speaker 2: you do seem smaller. trivial and less important and less valuable.
15:33
Speaker 2: So I'm concerned about these two ideas as connected to justify.
15:37
Speaker 2: I don't want to justify. Number five is how to
15:39
Speaker 2: handle objections. There's a couple of things we need to
15:41
Speaker 2: know about objections. And if you're not familiar with sales,
15:44
Speaker 2: you might be thinking to yourself, what is an objection?
15:46
Speaker 2: Objection is a question as to like, I'm not ready
15:50
Speaker 2: to buy. It's how they express resistance. They're not ready
15:53
Speaker 2: to say yes. Most of us have really negative opinions
15:56
Speaker 2: about this. So we approach an objection with a bad attitude.
16:00
Speaker 2: and probably respond with a violent comment. For example, they
16:03
Speaker 2: might say something like, an objection would be, why is
16:06
Speaker 2: it so much money? Or can this be done quicker?
16:10
Speaker 2: Or are there, can I pay in installments? There's a
16:12
Speaker 2: lot of different things that hold up them from saying yes.
16:15
Speaker 2: So I'm going to reframe what an objection is. I'm
16:17
Speaker 2: going to use the thing from a dating book. It's
16:19
Speaker 2: called an IOI. Have you heard of this? IOI? It's
16:22
Speaker 2: an indicator of interest. Okay. If I'm talking to you
16:26
Speaker 2: about a service that you're not interested in, my theory
16:29
Speaker 2: is you will never express an objection. You'll say, send
16:31
Speaker 2: me the brochure, send me a proposal, see you later.
16:33
Speaker 2: I got to talk it over with somebody. And that's
16:34
Speaker 2: the end of it. You don't ask more questions. So
16:37
Speaker 2: when people ask questions about it, they're actually really interested.
16:41
Speaker 2: And I take that as a positive sign, not a
16:43
Speaker 2: negative sign. So we need to reframe our mindset when
16:45
Speaker 2: we hear an objection. We need to pause and say,
16:48
Speaker 2: this is good. I think they're interested. It's like when
16:50
Speaker 2: you're fishing and there's a nibble on the hook. You're like, wait, wait, wait,
16:53
Speaker 2: don't reel them in yet. Just relax. But there's activity
16:56
Speaker 2: here versus I'm not interested in the fish ones right away.
16:59
Speaker 2: That's what happens all the time. So typically speaking, not always,
17:03
Speaker 2: when the prospect says to you, send me the proposal,
17:06
Speaker 2: send it to me and whatever, it means no. It
17:09
Speaker 2: just usually means no in polite culture because they're not
17:12
Speaker 2: willing to say no. How do you handle objections? You
17:15
Speaker 2: handle it by embracing it. And there's like a mental
17:19
Speaker 2: jujitsu thing that we do. We embrace it and we pivot.
17:22
Speaker 2: I'm going to share a story. I'm in a meeting
17:25
Speaker 2: with some star architects, some famous architects here in LA.
17:28
Speaker 2: And they were looking to redo their identity system and
17:32
Speaker 2: their website. And I'm in the room with the three principals.
17:36
Speaker 2: And one person says, Chris, I'm going to be honest
17:39
Speaker 2: with you. He's a really direct communicator. I appreciate that.
17:42
Speaker 2: He says, You're not the typical person we would choose.
17:45
Speaker 2: Everybody else that we're looking at has this much experience
17:48
Speaker 2: in working with architectural firms, understands our needs very well,
17:51
Speaker 2: understands the market. You don't have a single thing. So
17:53
Speaker 2: you're not our typical choice. So here's where we use
17:57
Speaker 2: a little word play and we kind of embrace that.
17:59
Speaker 2: So I said to him, you're right. We don't have
18:04
Speaker 2: the experience that you seek. The challenge here is when
18:07
Speaker 2: you hire firms that have done all this work, what
18:10
Speaker 2: you'll get is one of the things they've already done before.
18:12
Speaker 2: that they're likely to do again for one of the competitors.
18:15
Speaker 2: If you want that, you should hire them because that's
18:18
Speaker 2: a safe route. To pick us would be to do
18:22
Speaker 2: something atypical. So you're absolutely right. We're not typical at all,
18:26
Speaker 2: but we're not going to give you what they're giving
18:28
Speaker 2: everyone else. And you have to decide if that's what
18:31
Speaker 2: you want or not. Close the job.
18:33
Speaker 1: It's psychologically so interesting because you're also like, you're taking
18:36
Speaker 1: off the table almost that you as a choice. Instead
18:40
Speaker 1: of pushing you further towards, you're saying, okay, take off
18:42
Speaker 1: the table. You're right. If you don't want this thing
18:45
Speaker 1: that's different and unique and special and original, let me
18:49
Speaker 1: just take it away from you.
18:51
Speaker 2: So I'm going to do a little example, a little
18:52
Speaker 2: illustration for you, okay? This is a waffle cone, delicious
18:56
Speaker 2: handmade small batch. Say this is vanilla, this is chocolate, okay?
19:01
Speaker 2: And I ask you, what is your favorite flavor of
19:02
Speaker 2: rice from? What would you say? Chocolate. Okay. The more
19:05
Speaker 2: I try to convince you vanilla is better, what do
19:07
Speaker 2: you have to do?
19:09
Speaker 1: Just objections.
19:10
Speaker 2: Vanilla is better. Why would you say that, Simon? You
19:12
Speaker 2: know chocolate's not good for you. Vanilla is preferred as
19:14
Speaker 2: the most popular choice in the world. What would you say?
19:16
Speaker 1: I'd say, yeah, chocolate's my thing, man.
19:19
Speaker 2: Okay, so what happens is you have a belief. Even
19:21
Speaker 2: if you don't believe in it, and as soon as
19:23
Speaker 2: you say it and I challenge you, you're going to
19:25
Speaker 2: feel like you have to defend your choice. Otherwise, you're
19:28
Speaker 2: going to feel dumb. So one of the biggest, like,
19:31
Speaker 2: not laws, but like things that drive us, the biggest
19:35
Speaker 2: motivation in our life is the need to be consistent
19:37
Speaker 2: with ourselves. You've heard this before? Yeah. So we want
19:42
Speaker 2: to be consistent with ourselves. And when I ask you
19:44
Speaker 2: to be inconsistent with yourself, you're going to fight and
19:46
Speaker 2: you're going to push back. Even if you know you're wrong,
19:49
Speaker 2: you may have gotten into an argument with a friend,
19:51
Speaker 2: a spouse, somebody, and they know they're wrong, but they
19:53
Speaker 2: just can't back down. Or maybe you were the idiot
19:55
Speaker 2: that was wrong. You're like, no, I need to like, no,
19:57
Speaker 2: I've never said that. Even though you know in the
19:59
Speaker 2: back of your mind, I'm wrong. I should just admit it.
20:02
Speaker 2: So when you push against someone's request, observation, you're asking
20:06
Speaker 2: them to dig deeper. So not only are you convicted
20:09
Speaker 2: that chocolate is superior, you're now convinced that it's two,
20:13
Speaker 2: maybe four times superior now. And the more I do this,
20:17
Speaker 2: the more I'm building a gap between us versus building
20:19
Speaker 2: a bridge. And I'm pushing you more into your corner
20:22
Speaker 2: because no one wants to sound like they're stupid or
20:25
Speaker 2: that they're not thoughtful communicators. So what I want to
20:28
Speaker 2: do is instead, I'd just say, is chocolate the best
20:32
Speaker 2: flavor for you? The only flavor you would ever try
20:36
Speaker 2: in your life?
20:38
Speaker 1: For now, yeah.
20:39
Speaker 2: For now. What is it about chocolate that you really love?
20:41
Speaker 2: I don't know. It's the texture.
20:43
Speaker 1: Texture. Chocolate, in my mind, it's not just flavor.
20:46
Speaker 2: This is amazing. So I don't think of chocolate as
20:49
Speaker 2: something with texture. So are you, like, adding things in
20:52
Speaker 2: your mind? Like, is this a Rocky Road chocolate thing?
20:54
Speaker 2: Kind of. Okay. It's got lots. You like chunks and things.
20:57
Speaker 2: By the way, he's just making me want an ice cream.
20:58
Speaker 1: You're so good at this. I don't care at this point.
21:01
Speaker 2: I'll have these.
21:03
Speaker 1: What's the spin? How are you going to make me
21:04
Speaker 1: have vanilla?
21:05
Speaker 2: I'm not.
21:05
Speaker 1: Jedi mind trick.
21:06
Speaker 2: There's no Jedi mind trick. It's vanilla you want.
21:08
Speaker 1: It's vanilla I want.
21:09
Speaker 2: But here's the thing. I see, so if I make
21:12
Speaker 2: a deduction, you like a certain kind of mouth, or
21:14
Speaker 2: there's the chewiness of the marshmallow, the nutty. So there's
21:17
Speaker 2: like variety. So I can see why you would not
21:20
Speaker 2: want vanilla because vanilla is vanilla. It's like use as
21:22
Speaker 2: an example for boring. I would always say something like this.
21:25
Speaker 1: It's like, well, this vanilla is only being made today
21:28
Speaker 1: and it's never coming back on the menu tomorrow. You
21:30
Speaker 1: can have chocolate anytime. Would that be the kind of like?
21:32
Speaker 2: I wouldn't do that because to me, that's like a
21:35
Speaker 2: hard sell. I want you to come to the conclusion.
21:38
Speaker 2: So the best way I know how to do this
21:39
Speaker 2: is get this off the menu and you and I
21:42
Speaker 2: look at the problem together. What is it that you
21:44
Speaker 2: like about this? And based on what your preferences are,
21:46
Speaker 2: may I make a recommendation that might introduce you to
21:49
Speaker 2: 20% new flavor, not 100% new flavor? All right, let's
21:53
Speaker 2: talk about brand. I think I heard Michael Margolis talk
21:55
Speaker 2: about this and he said that a product service without
21:58
Speaker 2: a story as a commodity. And so brand to me
22:02
Speaker 2: has real value in the world because it's the price
22:04
Speaker 2: we will pay above its equivalent. And the more we're
22:07
Speaker 2: willing to pay above the cheaper alternative is how strong
22:10
Speaker 2: the brand is. When it comes to sales, if you
22:13
Speaker 2: are a cookie cutter, no one knows who you are.
22:15
Speaker 2: There's no reputation around you. You're going to have to
22:17
Speaker 2: compete on other things. But if you have a powerful brand,
22:21
Speaker 2: you're well-known, there are things that you're doing it accelerates
22:25
Speaker 2: the relationship and allows you to command a premium. How
22:28
Speaker 2: do we know? Okay, there's a small company. The small
22:32
Speaker 2: company essentially puts this on a t-shirt. And the t-shirt,
22:38
Speaker 2: you and I might buy a no-brand shirt. And I
22:40
Speaker 2: don't know if you're an anti-brand guy. Let's just assume
22:42
Speaker 2: you're not an anti-brand guy because that falls apart. We
22:44
Speaker 2: might buy this for like six bucks. If we go
22:47
Speaker 2: to Costco or something like that, we might buy three
22:49
Speaker 2: or four of them for like 10 bucks because there's
22:51
Speaker 2: no brand. Because it serves utility and it's functional and
22:54
Speaker 2: covers our body. That's all it does. As soon as
22:57
Speaker 2: we attach that logo to this, the price of the
23:00
Speaker 2: shirt goes to probably $ 36. Why is that? Because that
23:05
Speaker 2: is the value that you add to it. So when
23:08
Speaker 2: people are like, well, brand's worthless, well, they don't understand
23:10
Speaker 2: brand the right way. This is true about water. It's
23:12
Speaker 2: true about cars. It's true about books. It's true about everything.
23:15
Speaker 2: Because inside of this is what all books are, pieces
23:17
Speaker 2: of paper with ink in it. But this says something
23:21
Speaker 2: about who this person is, what they represent, and I'm
23:25
Speaker 2: going to buy this book. Yeah. I think it was, um,
23:28
Speaker 2: Ana Lape who said something like this says, uh, every
23:32
Speaker 2: dollar you spend is a vote for the world that
23:34
Speaker 2: you want or want to live in. And so we
23:37
Speaker 2: get to choose, uh, maybe you're, um, I don't know
23:40
Speaker 2: the Adidas logo well enough to draw it, but let's
23:42
Speaker 2: say you're an Adidas person, right? We choose this company
23:46
Speaker 2: wins or this company wins and you're on an Apple
23:49
Speaker 2: side or you're on a, a Google or Galaxy site,
23:52
Speaker 2: whatever it is, you're on one side or the other.
23:54
Speaker 2: You're going to pick all the time we're voting. So
23:56
Speaker 2: brand has a lot of power when it comes to sales.
23:59
Speaker 2: If you have a strong personal brand, if you created content,
24:03
Speaker 2: if you've been of service to people, if you show
24:05
Speaker 2: up consistently, first of all, I feel like I know you.
24:10
Speaker 2: I think I might like you. And we're already on
24:13
Speaker 2: our way to trust, which we just talked about trust.
24:16
Speaker 2: That was the cue, right? So we can build trust
24:20
Speaker 2: at scale. by developing and harnessing our brands.
24:24
Speaker 1: I think personal brand nowadays, people, some people I meet say, oh,
24:27
Speaker 1: I don't want to build a personal brand. My argument
24:29
Speaker 1: is if you don't want to, it doesn't matter. It's
24:31
Speaker 1: still happening.
24:32
Speaker 2: I think we all have brands and I'm going to
24:35
Speaker 2: just be a nerd with you. We have brands with
24:37
Speaker 2: a little B, the kind of brand I'm talking about
24:40
Speaker 2: is brand with a big B. Okay. So brand is
24:43
Speaker 2: an impression. It's a reputation. It's a gut feeling about you.
24:46
Speaker 2: So everyone in this room now, having heard me talk
24:48
Speaker 2: for long enough, has an impression of me, but maybe
24:51
Speaker 2: a different group, like 12 year olds would have a
24:53
Speaker 2: different opinion. My parents might have different opinions. So there's
24:56
Speaker 2: all these impressions and these different ideas. So when we
24:59
Speaker 2: have enough people come to the same conclusion as to
25:02
Speaker 2: who you are, then you have a brand. But that's
25:05
Speaker 2: just a very small circle. What I'm talking about brand
25:08
Speaker 2: with a big B is this at scale, right? So
25:13
Speaker 2: in your local community, people know you, your coworkers, they
25:16
Speaker 2: know you, you have a brand. You're the person who
25:18
Speaker 2: shows up on time. You're always optimistic about work. That's
25:20
Speaker 2: a good brand, small B to have. But outside that room,
25:24
Speaker 2: no one knows who the heck you are. But we
25:26
Speaker 2: live in a wonderful time amplified by social media and
25:29
Speaker 2: content that we have relatively democratic reach that that same
25:34
Speaker 2: person putting some effort, intention, and understanding how this game
25:37
Speaker 2: works can develop this at massive scale. Number seven is
25:40
Speaker 2: the big one to be in the service of others.
25:42
Speaker 2: Earlier today, I was telling you about sales and we
25:45
Speaker 2: need to reframe sales because if we have a negative
25:48
Speaker 2: emotion around sales, then we're not going to do it well.
25:51
Speaker 2: We won't want to learn. We won't get better. That's
25:53
Speaker 2: why so many people that you approach in the street
25:55
Speaker 2: are very timid, reluctant to say whatever it is they
25:58
Speaker 2: want to say. So let's look at sales. What is sales?
26:00
Speaker 1: Okay.
26:03
Speaker 2: Sales is to serve, to have this idea that somebody's
26:07
Speaker 2: needs are more important than yours, that you approach things
26:09
Speaker 2: with an agenda. It's to ask questions and not to
26:12
Speaker 2: give answers. is to listen with great intention and ask
26:15
Speaker 2: great follow-up questions that we understand and surface deeper meaning motivations.
26:20
Speaker 2: E is to empathize, to understand what they're really going through.
26:23
Speaker 2: Somebody's livelihood depends on making the right decisions, whether it's
26:26
Speaker 2: a job or a business or investment. And the last
26:29
Speaker 2: thing is we're going to summarize. So to me, that's sales.
26:34
Speaker 2: So the first and most important thing is to have
26:37
Speaker 2: the mindset of servitude. So when we say I've served,
26:40
Speaker 2: what does that connote to you?
26:42
Speaker 1: I think it means you understand the person's needs and
26:45
Speaker 1: you're giving them what they need.
26:46
Speaker 2: I mean, in pop culture, when somebody's like, thank you
26:48
Speaker 2: for your service, I've served. Yeah. Is there a connotation
26:52
Speaker 2: to you?
26:52
Speaker 1: I don't know if there's a connotation in my head.
26:54
Speaker 2: Military. Thank you for your service.
26:56
Speaker 1: I had someone say that to me today when we
26:58
Speaker 1: were up at the Hollywood sign.
27:00
Speaker 2: They're talking about me.
27:01
Speaker 1: No, well, I said thank you for your service to them.
27:04
Speaker 1: Because they were in the military. No, they were in
27:06
Speaker 1: the military. But I still felt a sense of gratitude.
27:09
Speaker 2: Yes. Because they literally put their lives on the line,
27:13
Speaker 2: fight for our freedom.
27:14
Speaker 1: The ultimate thing, isn't it? They put their life on
27:16
Speaker 1: the line for what you believe and what they country.
27:19
Speaker 2: And it's a really great story to tell young men
27:21
Speaker 2: and women to put their lives on the line for
27:23
Speaker 2: a higher purpose and idea. Good story to tell. So
27:26
Speaker 2: when we see people, we salute them and we show
27:28
Speaker 2: them respect and we honor them. So what that means
27:33
Speaker 2: is they're willing to make the ultimate sacrifice for a
27:35
Speaker 2: bigger goal. So if you want to be better at sales,
27:38
Speaker 2: you should understand what is the other person's bigger mission
27:42
Speaker 2: and goal in life and put aside your own needs.
27:44
Speaker 2: The problem is most people approach sales as, I need
27:47
Speaker 2: to make money. I need to be validated. I need
27:49
Speaker 2: to pay for this or that. And they just make
27:52
Speaker 2: it all about themselves. So you want to act as
27:55
Speaker 2: a fiduciary if possible and help them make the best
27:58
Speaker 2: decision for them, despite it not being good for you.
28:01
Speaker 2: So we want to be of service to others. And
28:02
Speaker 2: when you do that, your mindset changes. Everything about you changes.
28:06
Speaker 2: So when I do a sales workshop, I'll say, I'm
28:08
Speaker 2: grateful for you all to be here. I'm grateful that
28:10
Speaker 2: we have the space and that today's a beautiful day
28:12
Speaker 2: and that we're going to have great food later. What
28:14
Speaker 2: are some things that you are all grateful for? And
28:16
Speaker 2: we just do this gratitude exercise. Can we be grateful
28:19
Speaker 2: for the things that don't even need to be grateful for? Like,
28:21
Speaker 2: I'm grateful that this chair is well, or this table
28:24
Speaker 2: is well made. I'm grateful that this light is working
28:26
Speaker 2: well and it's not flickering in my face right now.
28:28
Speaker 2: So if we start to adopt this mindset of gratitude,
28:31
Speaker 2: it changes our emotions and say, well, Let's transfer this
28:34
Speaker 2: over and to have a sales conversation. Hold on to
28:36
Speaker 2: that feeling for as long as you can while we're
28:38
Speaker 2: having this conversation because it'll change the way that you
28:42
Speaker 2: show up, the language that you use. It'll affect your
28:44
Speaker 2: body language, right? So if you go into a date
28:47
Speaker 2: or a business meeting full of anxiety, you're going to
28:50
Speaker 2: sweat more. You're going to probably shake nervously and the
28:53
Speaker 2: words are going to come out funny. You tease my chatter,
28:54
Speaker 2: all these kinds of things. That's not actually setting you
28:57
Speaker 2: up for success. So we want to adopt the right
28:59
Speaker 2: mindset and believe it. Natural born seller. I didn't think
29:02
Speaker 2: I was a natural born salesperson.
29:04
Speaker 1: Turns out I am. But anyway, I'd love to hear
29:06
Speaker 1: your thoughts.
29:06
Speaker 2: Me neither.
29:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. As an introvert, your own description, you wouldn't
29:10
Speaker 1: be described typically as a salesperson.
29:12
Speaker 2: No.
29:13
Speaker 1: But you definitely are.
29:14
Speaker 2: I thought I hated sales. And I told people I
29:16
Speaker 2: hate selling. I hate pitching. And my coach at that
29:19
Speaker 2: time says, you just hate it because you're not good
29:21
Speaker 2: at it. Let's help you get there. And then I
29:24
Speaker 2: learned to love sales. And I don't have any of
29:26
Speaker 2: the old... emotional, negative charge and response that I have.
29:31
Speaker 2: And I want to share a story with everyone here.
29:33
Speaker 2: So years ago, I go and visit this amazing remote
29:35
Speaker 2: fishing lodge in British Columbia off the Central West Coast.
29:40
Speaker 2: And I happened to be paired up with some friend
29:43
Speaker 2: of a friend. And he goes, Chris, I love what
29:45
Speaker 2: you do. You know what they need here? They need
29:47
Speaker 2: better marketing and design. I'm like, and he goes, you
29:51
Speaker 2: know what? I'm going to ask him, I'm going to
29:52
Speaker 2: sell this and I'm going to get you this project.
29:54
Speaker 2: I'm like, great. Cause I don't want to do sales.
29:57
Speaker 2: But he's like, but you're going to have to give
29:59
Speaker 2: me like 30% of the project. I'm like, well, I
30:00
Speaker 2: guess that's fair, sort of. I'm like, oh my God.
30:02
Speaker 2: He's going to have one conversation because I don't have
30:05
Speaker 2: the guts to ask for what I want. So he goes, okay.
30:09
Speaker 2: And he's a very outgoing guy. So I'm outside literally
30:12
Speaker 2: looking in and the plane's coming to pick us up
30:14
Speaker 2: and everything. So I'm like, there's not a lot of
30:16
Speaker 2: time left here. He goes inside. I can see him
30:18
Speaker 2: talking to the general manager, blah, blah, blah. He comes out.
30:20
Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, and, and, and. Yes, no, I couldn't
30:22
Speaker 2: ask for it. I'm like, oh, okay. Plane hasn't come.
30:25
Speaker 2: So I walk into the room thinking, you know what?
30:28
Speaker 2: Because of my own shyness and my aversion towards sales,
30:32
Speaker 2: I was going to pay somebody a lot of the
30:34
Speaker 2: money for doing almost none of the work. So I
30:36
Speaker 2: walked in and I sat down with the general manager
30:38
Speaker 2: and I asked him this question. I says, you know what?
30:40
Speaker 2: I love being here so much. This is an amazing experience.
30:44
Speaker 2: You must have like the calendar booked out forever. He pauses,
30:49
Speaker 2: he turns to me. He's like, Chris, you know what?
30:51
Speaker 2: Our clientele are literally dying. Because to be able to
30:55
Speaker 2: afford to go here, you are of a certain age
30:57
Speaker 2: and then they have health problems and they literally pass away.
31:00
Speaker 2: He goes, I need to fill this calendar because we
31:04
Speaker 2: don't make money unless it's a fully booked season. And
31:06
Speaker 2: I said to him, his name is Ernie. I said, Ernie,
31:09
Speaker 2: I know you don't know this about me, but in
31:10
Speaker 2: my life outside of here, this is what I do
31:12
Speaker 2: for a living. And I'd love to help you if
31:14
Speaker 2: this is of interest to you. He goes, absolutely. Should
31:17
Speaker 2: we follow up? And so that was a really important
31:19
Speaker 2: lesson in my life that opportunities are going to pass
31:22
Speaker 2: you every single day of your life if you're unwilling
31:25
Speaker 2: to learn a skill and to put yourself out there
31:28
Speaker 2: and to risk the most horrible thing you could have happen.
31:31
Speaker 2: Somebody's like not interested. Well, your life didn't really change
31:34
Speaker 2: because it's going to continue on just as ways before.
31:36
Speaker 2: But we're so fearful of rejection that we'll do anything
31:40
Speaker 2: possible to make a thousand excuses why we shouldn't put
31:42
Speaker 2: ourselves out there to harm ourselves ultimately. So that was
31:46
Speaker 2: my journey into learning how to ask for the sale,
31:50
Speaker 2: how to have conversations with people in real life, everywhere
31:52
Speaker 2: I go, and to make it the most natural thing.
31:55
Speaker 2: And it's really just about having a conversation with somebody
31:58
Speaker 2: and understanding what they're going through and seeing if there's
32:00
Speaker 2: a natural fit. If there's a fit, we can work.
32:02
Speaker 2: If not, we just move on.
32:04
Speaker 1: The best salesperson in my agency, Fluid, which I built
32:07
Speaker 1: out of Hong Kong, which I sold to PricewaterhouseCoopers, that
32:09
Speaker 1: agency's number one salesperson was our accountant. And it's because
32:14
Speaker 1: she used to go and have lunches with other... high-profile
32:18
Speaker 1: accountants in big companies. And they'd sit around a table,
32:21
Speaker 1: and they'd be talking about what they're doing. And she'd
32:23
Speaker 1: talk with joy about how we just helped a company
32:25
Speaker 1: come out of bankruptcy, and we saved another company, and
32:27
Speaker 1: she'd be telling all these people. And then they'd go
32:29
Speaker 1: back to the office and tell their CEOs about this
32:32
Speaker 1: company that her friend works at. And next thing, I'd
32:34
Speaker 1: get a phone call. Can you come in, Simon, and
32:36
Speaker 1: see how we... So she was just telling a story
32:38
Speaker 1: about what she was doing. She was just proud of
32:40
Speaker 1: her work, even though she was only the accountant. I
32:43
Speaker 1: say that, a very important role, but she.
32:45
Speaker 2: Was the accountant.
32:46
Speaker 1: She wasn't doing the creative. She wasn't doing the strategy.
32:48
Speaker 1: She wasn't doing the sales. She was a number one salesperson.
32:51
Speaker 2: I would imagine as an accountant, there was not a
32:53
Speaker 2: lot of BS in this person.
32:54
Speaker 1: No, no, but the opposite of BS.
32:58
Speaker 2: So you can say natural born seller is... No BS.
33:02
Speaker 2: I actually think, yeah.
33:02
Speaker 1: And that's the opposite to what we think.
33:04
Speaker 2: Yeah.
33:04
Speaker 1: We think it's all car salesmen selling you a car
33:06
Speaker 1: that's going to break down when you leave the lot,
33:08
Speaker 1: which is just not how it is.
33:09
Speaker 2: And the other idea that we can think about is
33:11
Speaker 2: the best salespeople aren't selling at all. They're telling stories.
33:15
Speaker 2: So what we want to do is we want to
33:16
Speaker 2: create stories that are repeatable. And it sounded to me
33:20
Speaker 2: like she was very good at telling repeatable stories. So
33:23
Speaker 2: repeatable stories, I tell you, you tell somebody, and it spreads.
33:26
Speaker 2: So there's certain components we have to have in a story.
33:29
Speaker 2: So usually it's reduced down to three things. There's a character,
33:33
Speaker 2: there's a want, and then there's an obstacle. We can
33:37
Speaker 2: just have those three components in a story. We're well
33:39
Speaker 2: on our way. So this is a very simple framework.
33:41
Speaker 1: Thanks very much for listening. We'll have to have some chicken.
33:42
Speaker 1: We'll see you later.