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Transcript

Too Hot To Play? · Simmer Down

• 0:02
  Kathleen Biggins: Welcome to Simmer Down, where we take a cool-headed look at a hot topic, climate change.
• 0:08
  Kathleen Biggins: In today's podcast, we continue to explore how climate change is impacting the things we love and need, with a focus on the things we talk about around our kitchen table.
• 0:19
  Kathleen Biggins: In an earlier podcast, we focused on how climate change is impacting our weather, making our heat waves more frequent and hotter and longer, and also leading to more flooding, rainstorms, and more wildfires and wildfire smoke.
• 0:35
  Kathleen Biggins: For those of us who love to play sports, love spending time watching our kids play sports, or are lucky enough to attend professional or college-level games, we have to be noticing that that experience is changing.
• 0:50
  Kathleen Biggins: Today we want to delve into how climate change is impacting our ability to play and enjoy watching sports.
• 0:57
  Kathleen Biggins: And we have invited our world-class expert, Walker J.
• 1:01
  Kathleen Biggins: Ross, to join us.
• 1:03
  Kathleen Biggins: Walker is a lecturer in sport management and digital marketing at the University of Edinburgh and the director of the Sport Ecology Group, a nonprofit collective of academic educators and researchers.
• 1:15
  Kathleen Biggins: His research focused on the two-way relationship between sport and the natural environment.
• 1:21
  Kathleen Biggins: Thank you, Walker, and welcome.
• 1:24
  Walker Ross: Thank you for having me.
• 1:25
  Walker Ross: I am really looking forward to the conversation today.
• 1:28
  Kathleen Biggins: So, Walker, let's start with kind of a broad overview.
• 1:32
  Kathleen Biggins: How is heat impacting the sports we're currently playing?
• 1:39
  Walker Ross: So for me, the big thing with heat is the safety and welfare of people who are participating in sport.
• 1:46
  Walker Ross: And that could be predominantly, we would focus on the athletes, but it could also be the spectators and the other people who are working at events where sport is taking place.
• 1:56
  Walker Ross: What we've seen depends kind of on the sport, depends on the time of year.
• 2:01
  Walker Ross: But for winter sports, for example, snow sports, we're seeing a decline in snowpack and less certainty around the seasons that ski resorts and snowboarding resorts can be open.
• 2:15
  Walker Ross: At the other end of the spectrum, when we look at summer sports, it's becoming increasingly hot and in some ways too hot to participate.
• 2:23
  Walker Ross: We have more wildfires and things that are sparked as a result of this heat.
• 2:28
  Walker Ross: We've seen the introduction of hydration breaks and cooling breaks into these sports.
• 2:33
  Walker Ross: It's really impacting the whole industry from top to bottom, you know, from reshaping the products and the way we design them, the rules of sport, the shade protections we're going to put in place for fans that are attending matches, you name it.
• 2:46
  Walker Ross: Everything is being touched upon by heat.
• 2:49
  Kathleen Biggins: So climate change is forcing change, is what you're saying.
• 2:52
  Walker Ross: Quite simply, yes, climate change is forcing change.
• 2:56
  Kathleen Biggins: So it's easy to kind of say those terms and think kind of in the nonspecific.
• 3:02
  Kathleen Biggins: But I guess when I think of it, I think of when tennis players at the US Open or at the Australian Open or at the Tokyo Olympics were struggling with even tennis players saying that they felt they could be in true mortal danger, that we recognize what it could mean for these really incredibly fit human beings to be put in these situations.
• 3:26
  Kathleen Biggins: Are you noticing that sports management is beginning to understand the risk because the players are indeed their biggest asset?
• 3:34
  Kathleen Biggins: Is there a monetary reckoning that people are recognizing finally?
• 3:39
  Walker Ross: Absolutely.
• 3:40
  Walker Ross: These players are the most valuable asset to these sports leagues, these teams, that the competitions that they play in, tennis is not interesting if not for the best tennis players.
• 3:50
  Walker Ross: Uh, an NBA team is not interesting if not for their star basketball players.
• 3:54
  Walker Ross: So if they're not able to perform at their best, that hurts the product.
• 3:59
  Walker Ross: It hurts the performance, it hurts their ability to achieve the championships and world records and things that we expect.
• 4:05
  Walker Ross: On the other side of things, you know, when it comes to the fans, they expect to see a good product.
• 4:11
  Walker Ross: They want to go out there and see the players performing at their best, but they also want to be comfortable.
• 4:16
  Walker Ross: And I will fully admit, as somebody who goes to live sports events, that the sun, heat, um, cold on the other side of things, these are all factors in my decision.
• 4:27
  Walker Ross: I've gone to Formula One Grand Prix events where I thought to myself, I enjoyed the race, but I don't think I would ever go back because it was too hot.
• 4:37
  Walker Ross: And that hurts the bottom line for these organizations, right?
• 4:40
  Walker Ross: They they want people to have a good time, they want the players to perform at their best.
• 4:44
  Walker Ross: So absolutely there's monetary value to attach to this.
• 4:48
  Kathleen Biggins: You know, it's interesting you say that because I was lucky enough to go to the US Open, I think it was in 2023 for tennis.
• 4:54
  Kathleen Biggins: And we sat, unlike the league, on the side of the stadium where the sun lingered the longest.
• 5:02
  Kathleen Biggins: And I was watching the shade on the other side, and I was ready to go rip somebody out of their seat and take their side because it was just hellish where we were.
• 5:10
  Kathleen Biggins: And they kept stopping the tennis because it was too hot for the players.
• 5:14
  Kathleen Biggins: And so you were just sitting there baking and baking and not even entertained for big chunks.
• 5:20
  Kathleen Biggins: And we haven't been back, just like you said, we haven't been back.
• 5:24
  Kathleen Biggins: So it definitely is influencing my choice.
• 5:29
  Kathleen Biggins: Is it influencing spectators on a big enough level for management to notice?
• 5:34
  Kathleen Biggins: And how are they then reacting?
• 5:36
  Walker Ross: I think that some of the ways in which these decisions have already been taken is a little bit discreet in some ways, because we we wouldn't exactly say it's explicitly climate change, but I'll pick on Major League Soccer for an example right now.
• 5:51
  Walker Ross: Some of those clubs like the Houston Dynamo and FC Dallas that that play in the Texas heat were already kicking off their matches at eight o'clock at night when the sun has started to go down to avoid the hottest parts of the day.
• 6:05
  Walker Ross: And I think that that was a recognition that it's just too hot to play in the middle of the day when the sun is up, and that fans don't really want to go and sit in the sun if there's no roof, if there's no water or cooling for them.
• 6:19
  Walker Ross: But it's going to get worse.
• 6:21
  Walker Ross: And there are going to be places that are not used to heat that are going to have to deal with this as a problem anew.
• 6:27
  Walker Ross: And when that happens, we have to say it's the product of climate change.
• 6:33
  Walker Ross: It's the fact that it's warmer now and it used to not be so hot where you are right now, or it was less hot where you are right now.
• 6:41
  Kathleen Biggins: So it's interesting.
• 6:42
  Kathleen Biggins: You said that the words climate change aren't used to describe the challenge.
• 6:47
  Kathleen Biggins: Is that because it's too politically fraught, or is that because the management doesn't see the science as clear enough that it's impacting their particular franchise?
• 6:57
  Walker Ross: It's probably a little of both, in my opinion.
• 7:00
  Walker Ross: I think you definitely have some situations where the political tension would suggest that using that term is not advantageous.
• 7:08
  Walker Ross: But I also think that it's not explicitly a connection that's made by some people in the sport industry that these issues I'm dealing with are actually related to climate change.
• 7:17
  Walker Ross: They just see that it's really hot and it's been really hot the last few years, and they think that's a bit strange.
• 7:25
  Walker Ross: Um, but maybe it'll go back to normal next year uh or at the next match.
• 7:29
  Walker Ross: And they're not trained climate scientists, so I don't expect them to make those connections inherently.
• 7:36
  Walker Ross: And that's where people like me come in and say, no, actually these two are related to one another, and and we need to call it that so that you are better prepared for the decisions that you have to make, the resources that you need to acquire, and the sort of battles that you'll be facing in the future.
• 7:53
  Kathleen Biggins: Yeah, sometimes I think of climate change as like the Voldemort, the thing that shall not be named, but yet is threatening really the entire fabric of society and so much of the environment.
• 8:05
  Kathleen Biggins: But you said something that makes me wonder if athletes from hotter places are better suited to handle the heat.
• 8:16
  Kathleen Biggins: For example, the World Cup, when we might have had someone who was used to playing in that type of temperature and humidity versus Scotland, who was not.
• 8:26
  Kathleen Biggins: Um, whether that becomes an inherent advantage as our temperatures change.
• 8:32
  Walker Ross: Yeah, I'm I'm glad you mentioned the Scotland example because uh Scotland going and playing Brazil in Miami was a big concern to me, but it was seemingly just as hot up in Boston for the two matches they had there as part of the World Cup.
• 8:46
  Walker Ross: Our bodies do adapt, physiologically speaking.
• 8:50
  Walker Ross: So, you know, people that live in hot climates, their bodies do adjust and they become better suited for exerting themselves, performing physical activities like exercise and sport in hotter climates.
• 9:02
  Walker Ross: It's why when I used to live in Florida, I did eventually get the ability to go running in the middle of the day and mostly be okay.
• 9:10
  Walker Ross: Um, but I think that if I were to try that now, living in Scotland and going straight back to Florida, that it would not go very well for me.
• 9:17
  Walker Ross: Athletes are performing at the peak of their abilities and all of the sports science and performance psychology that goes into them has them peaking at the absolute right moment.
• 9:29
  Walker Ross: So one of the things that we know is that for an athlete to move from one climate to the next and compete at their best, that we need to give them at least two weeks of serious training in that new climate, to where the advantage of living in that climate starts to wear out a little bit.
• 9:46
  Walker Ross: So, yes, if if the planet gets hotter, we will probably adjust a little bit.
• 9:51
  Walker Ross: But it's still inherently unsafe to do physical activity and extreme heat, even if you do live in those environments all the time.
• 10:00
  Walker Ross: So just because we can adapt doesn't mean that the problem will be solved naturally.
• 10:06
  Kathleen Biggins: Okay, I'm hearing you say that we can adapt, and that's really comforting because obviously we are getting more pressures from the weather now than we were before.
• 10:15
  Kathleen Biggins: But is there a limit on that?
• 10:17
  Kathleen Biggins: Or is it really something we can continue to improve on so we don't have to be that worried?
• 10:22
  Kathleen Biggins: It's just kind of part of playing sports going forward.
• 10:26
  Walker Ross: Our experience of climate change is not necessarily going to be this slow progression where we're just going to figure out and get better.
• 10:35
  Walker Ross: The reason that climate change is an issue is the pace at which we see it happening.
• 10:41
  Walker Ross: And this is where we are seeing, for example, these heat waves come in, where they're so strong, they're so intense, and they're also so quick that our bodies don't really have time to adapt.
• 10:52
  Walker Ross: Um, sure, I can maybe get used to summers being a little bit warmer, but when they get intensely hot for a week at a time, I don't have the time to adapt.
• 11:04
  Walker Ross: I will not be able to simply, you know, wave it away and say, ah, this is just my new experience.
• 11:10
  Walker Ross: And that there is a difference between performing in all of the conditions and something that would actually be quite harmful.
• 11:19
  Walker Ross: So there is a very fine line between it's hot and actually it's way too hot, and you shouldn't be out in this.
• 11:27
  Walker Ross: Related to that, is that our infrastructure that we depend upon is maybe not exactly tested for the strength that we will see.
• 11:36
  Walker Ross: So even if our bodies can adjust as we move from one place to the next to warmer temperatures, colder temperatures, there's no guarantee that the facilities we depend upon, the the kit and equipment that we depend upon is actually going to be good enough.
• 11:53
  Walker Ross: And we'll have to rethink those as well.
• 11:56
  Walker Ross: And we've seen this with sports that are changing things ever so slightly, that the dimples on the golf ball will change in their depth so that the ball flies a little bit better.
• 12:07
  Walker Ross: That matters for a sport, but but so do factors like the quality of the air that they're flying through.
• 12:14
  Walker Ross: So it will require wholesale changes on our part, and it will not be something that we can simply train ourselves to get used to.
• 12:23
  Kathleen Biggins: So another thing that happens with athletes is they breathe in, right?
• 12:27
  Kathleen Biggins: They're they're huffing and puffing and exerting.
• 12:30
  Kathleen Biggins: What does that mean when climate change is um worsening some of our air quality, especially with the wildfire smoke, which is so ubiquitous and can spread so far?
• 12:41
  Kathleen Biggins: What does that mean for athletes?
• 12:43
  Kathleen Biggins: Are they getting a higher dose of that pollution than we are?
• 12:47
  Walker Ross: Yeah, I mean, really simply put, like our athletes are sort of exposing themselves more to this, and in some ways, it feels like a strong word, but sort of poisoning themselves a bit more than than an average person when they compete out in this.
• 13:02
  Walker Ross: Some sport leagues have air quality policies in place.
• 13:06
  Walker Ross: Major League Baseball has a committee that is supposed to meet to determine if a game should be postponed or or canceled based on air quality measures.
• 13:17
  Walker Ross: Some of these leagues that have these policies in place will have a hard and fast number if the air quality is above 100 AQI, 150 AQI, that they'll just call it off.
• 13:28
  Walker Ross: Um whereas others, and baseball's a good example of this, it's sometimes just up to the decision makers.
• 13:34
  Walker Ross: Um historically, baseball's policy on rain was if the umpire thinks it's raining, then the game is called off.
• 13:41
  Walker Ross: And in some ways, uh that's the policy that we have around air quality.
• 13:45
  Walker Ross: Um, but again, it really varies sports sport.
• 13:48
  Kathleen Biggins: What is AQI?
• 13:49
  Walker Ross: Air quality index.
• 13:50
  Walker Ross: I'm sorry.
• 13:51
  Walker Ross: Of course.
• 13:52
  Kathleen Biggins: That was easy to figure out.
• 13:53
  Kathleen Biggins: Thank you.
• 13:54
  Kathleen Biggins: So we've talked a lot about how heat impacts climate change.
• 13:58
  Kathleen Biggins: What many people don't realize that the things that are making heavier rains and also making heavier snow, same thing.
• 14:05
  Kathleen Biggins: And even more drought, right?
• 14:06
  Kathleen Biggins: It's literally as we heat up our atmosphere, it's getting thirstier and it's pulling up more moisture into it.
• 14:12
  Kathleen Biggins: And when conditions are right, it just unloads at a magnitude that we aren't really used to dealing with.
• 14:18
  Kathleen Biggins: Have there been any instances where we've had stadiums like filled with people that were trapped by a storm?
• 14:28
  Kathleen Biggins: Or is that just something we're worried about in the future?
• 14:31
  Walker Ross: Oh, there was actually there was an NBA game in Houston a few years back where um everybody was in the arena and enjoying the game, and a a really severe storm came through and absolutely flooded the area and all the streets kind of around the arena.
• 14:45
  Walker Ross: So um, when the game was over, people couldn't go home because they couldn't really get out of the arena safely.
• 14:52
  Walker Ross: So players, fans, TV, you name it, everybody was was held in there for several hours afterwards until the storm cleared, until the streets started to dry up a little bit because it was otherwise not safe to get out.
• 15:06
  Walker Ross: Wow.
• 15:07
  Walker Ross: I can imagine that people were not happy.
• 15:10
  Walker Ross: And and I know that for me, when the game is over, I want to go home.
• 15:13
  Walker Ross: So yeah, I don't want to be stuck in my little stadium seat for much longer.
• 15:17
  Kathleen Biggins: Yeah, no, of course.
• 15:19
  Kathleen Biggins: So let's focus a little bit more on um those of us who are weekend warriors, you know, who are out there trying to emulate those pros that we watch and and um are so impressed with.
• 15:32
  Kathleen Biggins: Let's start with summertime.
• 15:34
  Kathleen Biggins: What does it mean for those of us who are out playing golf or tennis or even mountain climbing or hiking?
• 15:41
  Kathleen Biggins: Are there precautions we need to take?
• 15:43
  Kathleen Biggins: Or do we have to be more careful now?
• 16:49
  Walker Ross: Absolutely.
• 16:49
  Walker Ross: I think that you have to be more careful.
• 16:51
  Walker Ross: And the fact of the matter is for the sort of amateur sport enthusiasts for youth sports, um, we don't have all the same resources available for people participating in in that level of sport that we have for people that are at this professional or international level of competitive sports.
• 17:08
  Walker Ross: So we don't have the sports physiologists and physical therapists and the like to help you out.
• 17:14
  Walker Ross: So it's on you as somebody that casually golfs or runs or or goes hiking to look after yourself and to make sure that you know what your limitations are when it comes to exercise, exertion.
• 17:27
  Walker Ross: When me as the average guy goes running and it's 10 or 20 degrees warmer than it normally is, I am not ready for that.
• 17:38
  Walker Ross: I am not safe in those conditions.
• 17:40
  Walker Ross: And so do I know to run for a shorter distance, to run slower, to hydrate properly, to maybe not even run at all, to run at a different time of day when it's less hot.
• 17:50
  Walker Ross: I mean, these are all steps that everyday people can take.
• 17:53
  Walker Ross: But um, again, it's kind of on them to take care of themselves.
• 17:57
  Kathleen Biggins: Right.
• 17:57
  Kathleen Biggins: And we, when we spoke with doctors about climate and health, they reinforce the message that this excessive heat is especially dangerous for our young people and our older people, and that our bodies just aren't equipped.
• 18:11
  Kathleen Biggins: And even though that 30-year-old guy or 40-year-old guy may not realize what's happening to their kids that are standing right next to them that are exercising.
• 18:20
  Kathleen Biggins: And so um, we hope that listeners take that to heart, that our bodies are different and that we really need to accord this risk at the proper respect.
• 18:30
  Walker Ross: There's actually an increased risk to women in sport as well, because we simply do not have the abundance of research on women's bodies when it comes to this as well.
• 18:41
  Kathleen Biggins: You know, that just pulled a picture up in my mind, which was at the Tokyo Olympics, and there was a Spanish tennis player, I think it was Paula Bedosa, who literally was in the middle of the quarterfinals and collapsed and had to be taken off in a wheelchair.
• 18:59
  Kathleen Biggins: And she, you know, she her heart was there and she was just sobbing that she was being pulled off the court because she couldn't continue.
• 19:07
  Kathleen Biggins: And of course, we've always had overheating.
• 19:10
  Kathleen Biggins: Of course, we've always had players that needed to do better in their conditioning.
• 19:14
  Kathleen Biggins: It's not that climate change is creating all this, but it's making it more frequent and it's making it often more dangerous for both the spectators and the players.
• 19:25
  Kathleen Biggins: And I think that's an important part because it's making it so much worse.
• 19:29
  Kathleen Biggins: We'll be right back after this short break.
• 19:37
  Kathleen Biggins: I think Tennessee Williams wrote that it was like living under a hot washcloth.
• 20:10
  Kathleen Biggins: And I think that is a really good description.
• 20:12
  Kathleen Biggins: It is just hot and wet.
• 20:14
  Kathleen Biggins: The air just hangs on your skin.
• 20:16
  Kathleen Biggins: For me, when I exercise in humidity, I can't breathe as well.
• 20:20
  Kathleen Biggins: You just literally can't suck it in.
• 20:23
  Kathleen Biggins: And it means that maybe a temperature as low as 88 is really at a deadly temperature because it's so humid your body can't cool itself off.
• 20:32
  Kathleen Biggins: What's happening with humidity?
• 20:34
  Kathleen Biggins: And are people getting savvier about putting it into the equation instead of just looking at the thermostat?
• 20:41
  Walker Ross: Sport is doing a much better job at taking humidity into consideration as a factor.
• 20:46
  Walker Ross: And far more leagues are creating policies about heat that's actually measured by something called the wet bulb globe temperature, which is different than just the thermometer that we have on the wall on the side of our house.
• 21:01
  Walker Ross: So this is one that takes in factors like air temperature, humidity, if there is sunlight, if there is a breeze.
• 21:09
  Walker Ross: These are all different factors that influence our perception of heat as well as our ability to cool ourselves down.
• 21:16
  Walker Ross: The reason that it feels so unbearable to be outside in the humidity is because the way that our bodies cool themselves down is to sweat.
• 21:24
  Walker Ross: And when that sweat evaporates off of our skin, that's what cools us off.
• 21:29
  Walker Ross: But when it's humid, the sweat has nowhere to go.
• 21:31
  Walker Ross: It doesn't evaporate.
• 21:32
  Walker Ross: So it just stays on us as a hot liquid, essentially.
• 21:37
  Walker Ross: So the wet bulb globe temperature takes that into account to say, look, the thermometer might say that it's 80 degrees, but actually, if I factor in humidity and the fact that I'm standing in the sunlight and it's not a cloudy day, it's actually closer to 95 degrees, and that is far more dangerous.
• 21:55
  Walker Ross: So a lot of the leagues will have policies in place based on a wet bulb globe temperature reading.
• 22:01
  Walker Ross: And I'll give an example of that for FIFA for soccer tournaments.
• 22:05
  Walker Ross: Um, they have a policy that 28 degrees Celsius as a wet bulb globe temperature.
• 22:11
  Walker Ross: 28 degrees is when they introduce these hydration and cooling breaks, and above 32 degrees Celsius is when we start to see things like matches postponed or even canceled.
• 22:21
  Walker Ross: So that's not 28 just on the thermometer.
• 22:24
  Walker Ross: It's 28 based on all these other factors as well.
• 22:27
  Kathleen Biggins: And one of the things that really has me perplexed about climate change is that we are hitting temperature and humidity levels across the globe, primarily in the Middle East and around the equator, where it is too hot and too humid for a human body to safely cool itself down, even if it's sitting under a tree drinking water.
• 22:50
  Kathleen Biggins: We're hitting temperatures above which our species is capable of handling.
• 22:56
  Kathleen Biggins: And we've seen it for little tiny slivers of time, even along our own Gulf Coast.
• 23:01
  Kathleen Biggins: And that's something that.
• 23:02
  Kathleen Biggins: Scientists really are concerned about because those temperatures are coming.
• 23:06
  Kathleen Biggins: And that will mean that fans and athletes simply cannot be out in that weather.
• 23:13
  Kathleen Biggins: So we don't know when that's coming, but we know that's kind of what we've set into motion.
• 23:19
  Kathleen Biggins: Is there any long-term consideration of protecting their sport that these changers aren't just a natural cycle?
• 23:27
  Kathleen Biggins: And in fact, where we are is just the first step in the journey of how hot it's going to get, how humid's going to get, how much worse the storms are going to be.
• 23:36
  Kathleen Biggins: These guys are super savvy marketers, super big businesses.
• 23:40
  Kathleen Biggins: Are they thinking about the long term yet?
• 23:44
  Walker Ross: I would like to believe that they are, but I do think that that really varies from sport to sport and country to country in terms of what the conversations are, what the strategies are.
• 23:54
  Walker Ross: There are some sports out there globally, like rugby and cricket, that are really concerned about this because they look at the playing bases and um which countries actually compete in these sports and they see those risks.
• 24:06
  Walker Ross: And then there are sports like basketball that are indoors and a bit more, if I can use this term, insulated from some of the impacts of climate change.
• 24:17
  Walker Ross: Uh, that I will not say that basketball's doing a poor job of this, but who can maybe in their minds afford to take a slower approach or to not think about it as critically?
• 24:27
  Walker Ross: And I worry from there about people's access to sport.
• 24:31
  Walker Ross: If if we're losing our summers, so to speak, because they're becoming too hot, will people not be able to go watch sports like golf that that are outdoors, that are you know supposedly in the sunshine and quite comfortable?
• 24:44
  Walker Ross: Um, will we start to forget about what it was like when you know we were young and we enjoyed these things?
• 24:50
  Walker Ross: Will we have to start chasing the different temperatures and weathers and things that we need?
• 24:55
  Walker Ross: But the way we do with skiing, for example, already, if you want to ski, you have to kind of travel the world, or we're gonna have to start doing that with other sports.
• 25:02
  Walker Ross: Some sports are looking at this long term and they're starting to think about it.
• 25:06
  Walker Ross: Um, but I am worried that many are not doing as much as they probably could be doing, or in fact should be doing on this question already.
• 25:14
  Kathleen Biggins: You know, it's interesting because you said about basketball, but a lot of those basketball players started on the neighborhood basketball lot, right?
• 25:22
  Kathleen Biggins: Outside during whatever weather it was there.
• 25:25
  Kathleen Biggins: And one of the areas that I've seen a lot of discussion around is on ice hockey, which is a big deal.
• 25:33
  Kathleen Biggins: And I, if I'm not wrong, even big deal down in places like Tampa, Florida, which kind of surprises me.
• 25:39
  Kathleen Biggins: Um, and so what we have seen a lot is that the again, the incubators, the little ponds in the back neighborhoods just aren't freezing.
• 25:48
  Kathleen Biggins: So, what does that mean for upcoming hockey players, the next generation?
• 25:53
  Kathleen Biggins: And what is the league doing about it, if anything?
• 25:57
  Walker Ross: Yeah, I think that when you look at the major professional men's sport leagues in the United States, I would say that the National Hockey League was the first one to really make sustainability a core pillar of their operations.
• 26:10
  Walker Ross: They were the first ones to have a sustainability report.
• 26:12
  Walker Ross: And I think it comes down to the fact that historically speaking, ice hockey was this sport that developed on the frozen ponds of the north, that in the winter you could go out and you could just play on the ice.
• 26:24
  Walker Ross: It's wonderful in my mind, as somebody that wants for everyone to play sport and have access to sport, that people in in Florida can play ice hockey.
• 26:32
  Walker Ross: But it it's really dependent upon the fact that you have an ice hockey arena in your community.
• 26:38
  Walker Ross: And if that becomes necessary infrastructure, even in the the sort of heart of where ice hockey is from, again, that reduces access.
• 26:49
  Walker Ross: That that means fewer people are playing, they they might not be interested in it, they might not want to follow it as they get older.
• 26:57
  Walker Ross: It's it's not just something that's isolated to ice hockey.
• 27:00
  Walker Ross: Sports that have these high infrastructure costs like that are going to become more expensive and less accessible.
• 27:07
  Walker Ross: And perhaps a really extreme example of that is something like Bob Slay, Luge, and and Skeleton, where I think there are fewer than 15 or so of those circuits around the world that are kind of up to the Olympic standard.
• 27:21
  Walker Ross: So unless you live near one of them, you're probably not going to get into that sport naturally.
• 27:27
  Kathleen Biggins: So let's talk a little bit about winter sports.
• 27:29
  Kathleen Biggins: It seems to me that that's an area where kind of the professional teams are taking a hard look at what's changing, because it's changing so rapidly.
• 27:39
  Kathleen Biggins: What does climate change mean for those sports, whether it's, you know, skiing or ice fishing or any of those that depend on real cold to be able to be enjoyed?
• 27:53
  Walker Ross: Accessibility is a problem for those sports inherently.
• 27:57
  Walker Ross: As our climate is changing, it is becoming increasingly more uncertain that the snowpack that you're used to seeing will continue to be there.
• 28:09
  Walker Ross: And if you're an elite skier, you're already going all around the world all year round to find snow, to find the best mountain to train on.
• 28:18
  Walker Ross: And then in the summer months, they do things like rollerblade down streets at at high speed.
• 28:24
  Walker Ross: That might become all the more expensive.
• 28:26
  Walker Ross: That might become all the more inaccessible to people.
• 28:29
  Walker Ross: Whereas right now, I might be able to afford once a year to take my family to go skiing.
• 28:35
  Walker Ross: That might become a trip that's only accessible or affordable to upper echelons of the income percentiles.
• 28:43
  Walker Ross: Or um for people that just happen to live near the mountains that have ski resorts already.
• 28:49
  Walker Ross: And there's sports that that in some ways already are on unstable footing when it comes to participation rates because it's not year-round.
• 28:57
  Walker Ross: It's not something like soccer where most people can play that sport all year round, and it doesn't really matter because if you have a ball, you can go out there and you can kick it.
• 29:07
  Walker Ross: Right.
• 29:08
  Kathleen Biggins: So, what about the cost of keeping our fans safe in some of the bigger sport arena?
• 29:15
  Kathleen Biggins: Like, you know, in Georgia, football is king.
• 29:18
  Kathleen Biggins: I grew up in New Orleans, as I mentioned, LSU.
• 29:21
  Kathleen Biggins: Football is, you know, half of the world.
• 29:24
  Kathleen Biggins: What are they doing to try to keep their fans safe during those hot games in early August and September?
• 29:32
  Kathleen Biggins: And is it costing them money?
• 29:33
  Kathleen Biggins: Are they worried about lawsuits?
• 29:35
  Kathleen Biggins: Like are they changing their approach because of the the heat?
• 29:39
  Walker Ross: I have to start this question by saying I'm not a lawyer.
• 29:42
  Walker Ross: But fair enough.
• 29:44
  Walker Ross: Um yeah, I as somebody who I got my master's degree at the University of Georgia and my PhD at the University of South Carolina, and I went to plenty of football games at both schools, and and I know how hot um it can be.
• 29:57
  Walker Ross: And both those schools, I can say, have all these heat policies and practices in place already because that's just life in those places.
• 30:06
  Walker Ross: So I I can recall going to um South Carolina Gamecock football games where they had misting stations and and you were allowed to bring in water um to help keep yourself cool, or or you know, they'd give out fans and things like that, little paper fans, you know, that you could wave the air at yourself with.
• 30:22
  Walker Ross: If those become more frequent, then that will add up in the long run.
• 30:27
  Walker Ross: You will have to um maybe shell out more money to get more misters, or maybe if things get really bad to actually do something as extreme as build a shade structure on your stadium that that was not there before.
• 30:41
  Walker Ross: You know, there's various terms and conditions when you buy a ticket to go to a game.
• 30:45
  Walker Ross: Um, so if you go to a baseball game, there's actually terms and conditions at this point that say that a ball could fly into the stands and it is somewhat your responsibility to pay attention to the fact that a baseball could fly into the stands and hit you.
• 30:58
  Walker Ross: Um, so I worry that heat is one of these things that's hasn't been litigated to really know, you know, once you get into the stadium, is it your responsibility to keep yourself safe, or is it the sports team's or the venue's responsibility to keep yourself safe?
• 31:12
  Walker Ross: This might be something we have to address a bit more frequently.
• 31:16
  Walker Ross: So I I would say for in the interest of covering our backsides, that more preparation is better and it just looks bad.
• 31:24
  Walker Ross: You know, if if people are getting hurt left and right going to games, even if it's not your fault, um, because you're not doing enough to protect people from heat or from storms, that will hurt the bottom line, it'll hurt the reputation.
• 31:35
  Walker Ross: I love going to games with my daughter, and and she has so much fun clapping along at whatever's going on on the field and singing the national anthems and things like that.
• 31:46
  Walker Ross: I worry sometimes when I think about climate change that this is a great experience for me as a father.
• 31:52
  Walker Ross: Will she be able to do the same with her own children or grandchildren?
• 31:57
  Walker Ross: Is that something that will become a sort of forgotten memory of what sport was because it's become so changed because of climate change?
• 32:07
  Kathleen Biggins: Is this an opportunity to tie climate change's expanding role in harming the sports we love?
• 32:16
  Kathleen Biggins: Is there a way of tying it in together so that people understand the risk better?
• 32:23
  Walker Ross: Sport is one of these ways in which many people will interact with their natural environment and they'll be forced outdoors and they'll start to pay attention to things like what the weather is like today and how that impacts their enjoyment of watching sport or their ability to play sport.
• 32:43
  Walker Ross: But sport has an incredibly powerful platform to communicate these things, you know.
• 32:48
  Walker Ross: So, again, if if this is how people are experiencing it, then sport can be the vehicle that this message gets sent to the average person that climate change is impacting our lives.
• 32:58
  Walker Ross: And you see it manifest in the fact that soccer has to have hydration breaks now, and it didn't in the past.
• 33:06
  Walker Ross: I've always said to my students, when I try to make the case for why is it that we study sport separately?
• 33:13
  Walker Ross: Why is that sport is this unique phenomenon that when you open the newspaper, there's sort of the the news, and then there's a sports section that's completely separate.
• 33:23
  Walker Ross: For me, sport is one of the most unique expressions of our culture that that seems to communicate to different groups of people across political spectrums, incomes, religions, genders, geographies, you name it, whatever those identities are that people have, they like sport and can understand sport even when somebody's speaking a different language, because we both understand what tennis is supposed to look like.
• 33:51
  Walker Ross: Sport has this platform to communicate these changes, and and I've seen this happening.
• 33:55
  Walker Ross: I've seen this, you know, I mentioned rugby earlier that they're talking about climate change and how it's impacting some of the Pacific Islander nations that that are quite good at the sport, and that message is resonating with fans.
• 34:08
  Walker Ross: So I hope that other sport leagues, teams, organizations will will take up the mantle and and talk to their fans about this issue.
• 34:16
  Walker Ross: They talk to their fans about a lot of different issues: hunger, education, homelessness.
• 34:22
  Walker Ross: But I I think that climate change can absolutely be one of the issues that they talk about as well.
• 34:29
  Kathleen Biggins: Yeah, that's a great point.
• 34:31
  Kathleen Biggins: No, I can't think of many other instances where we are pulled together in that kind of shared experience and excitement and and losing ourselves for a few moments.
• 34:42
  Kathleen Biggins: That does create that that common bond.
• 34:45
  Kathleen Biggins: So that's a really well-described of why we love sports so much and why it's so important.
• 34:51
  Kathleen Biggins: Walker, thank you so much.
• 34:56
  Kathleen Biggins: This has been such a great hour together.
• 34:58
  Kathleen Biggins: We've learned so much from you.
• 35:01
  Walker Ross: Thank you for having me.
• 35:02
  Walker Ross: I appreciate your interest in the topic.
• 35:04
  Walker Ross: And if I can just say really quickly, there are a lot of wonderful people in the industry who are working on this.
• 35:11
  Walker Ross: Um, and if you're out there interested in sport and climate, um, there are people out here like myself who are willing to help.
• 35:22
  Kathleen Biggins: Thank you for joining us, and thank you to Walker Ross for bringing his expertise to our table.
• 35:29
  Kathleen Biggins: If you'd like to learn more about C-Change Conversations, please look at our website, the letter C-conversations with an S dot org.
• 35:39
  Kathleen Biggins: There you can find all sorts of information about climate change, but also about our outreach.
• 35:46
  Kathleen Biggins: We travel all around the country to talk to groups about the risk of climate change and what we can do about it.
• 35:53
  Kathleen Biggins: If you are interested, please reach out.
• 35:56
  Kathleen Biggins: We'd love to take this presentation to your town as well.
• 36:00
  Kathleen Biggins: Did you enjoy this episode?
• 36:03
  Kathleen Biggins: Perhaps you learned something new?
• 36:05
  Kathleen Biggins: If so, think about others who might benefit from learning about climate change in a cool-headed way and pass it along.
• 36:13
  Kathleen Biggins: Simmer Down is produced by Hans Buetow and Rebecca Fishkin.
• 36:17
  Kathleen Biggins: A special thanks to Carrie Dyckman, our creative director, and to Nicole Curnan and Margaret Koval for their ongoing contributions.
• 36:26
  Kathleen Biggins: We hope you'll listen to our other episodes and bring the climate conversation to your kitchen table.