Latest / The Elsa Kurt Show / How To Build A Marriage And Legacy That Last with Curline Matthews

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How To Build A Marriage And Legacy That Last with Curline Matthews · The Elsa Kurt Show

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: We're talking about something that touches nearly every one of us.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: Faith, marriage, parenthood, and what we ultimately leave behind for the people we love.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: Our guest is Carleen Matthews, a pastor, parent of four, grandparent of eleven, and the author of Where Faith Meets Family, a memoir of 39 years of marriage, parenthood, and lasting legacy.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: After nearly four decades of marriage and a lifetime spent raising a family and serving others in ministry, Curleen has had plenty of opportunity to see what faith looks like, not just from the pulpit, but inside a home as well.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: Let's welcome Curleen.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: Well, hello and welcome to the show.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so happy to meet you.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: Nice to be here.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: Now you have 11 grandchildren.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: I would love to catch up to you, but I think I think we're done at four.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: I think all I'm getting is four.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm a little envious right now.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: Very happy with what I have.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_03: It's up to 45 years now.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my goodness.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: So you have passed the four decade mark.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my goodness.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: Why was this point in your life that you felt called to put these experiences into a book?
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_03: I lost my husband.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_03: I lost my husband, yes.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so sorry.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_03: So thinking about his memories and the life we had together, you know, I thought I would write this book to um keep our his memories alive.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_03: And also being married for 39 years, I thought the lived experiences that I had would help somebody who would be passing through the same things, or could even help somebody who has not yet started the journey.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um, because I was very aware and I'm still very aware that um challenges happen in marriages, you know, in our parenting and um family life in general.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_03: You know, so I thought, you know, I would put all together his memories and our experience together, and you know, just put it out there that hoping it would help somebody along the way.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: What a beautiful tribute to him, of course, and to your marriage and to that experience to share that with the world.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: And and I'm sure it couldn't have been easy because loss, you know, when we when we think about loss like that, um, it's it's so hard to put into words sometimes.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: So uh it's so beautiful that you did.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, when people hear that length of a marriage, um, they hear the accomplishment and but they don't necessarily hear everything that happened during those years, the challenges and the struggles.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what have been some of the seasons that most tested your marriage and your faith that you've been able to share with an audience?
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_03: Well, um starting out as young um couples or as a young couple, speaking of myself, um, there were always times when there were a lack of um resources and you know, you know, say finances specifically, because you're having these children and you know, the everyday bills and things to um face.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_03: And nobody, not let me not say nobody, but a lot of us, many people do not start off having everything all together.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_03: Also, you gotta get to learn the person.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_03: There are two new people, young people that just you know get married.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_03: You have to learn that person's ways and habits, likewise, they have to learn yours.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_03: So we have to we had to work on that, you know, to bring it to a place where we want it to be.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_03: We feel like we were able to um have a mutual understanding of each other and also much respect.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, so true.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: And we we live in a a culture that places um enormous um importance on like personal happiness and fulfillment.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, how how does someone entering a marriage uh how do you reconcile like individual happiness with the sacrifices like you just described um that make uh a lasting marriage?
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um I would say first, you have to enter marriage knowing what it is all about.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_03: And as I have shared in my book, you have to enter marriage with your whole self because too many people enter marriage thinking that their spouse is responsible for their total happiness.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_03: But I would say that even though you want, you know, your spouse to be appreciative of you and be there for you to make you feel good, they will not ever know everything that makes you happy, right?
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_03: Or or keeps you going.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_03: So you have to cultivate your own happiness.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_03: Well, and I also shared in my book that um a person does not know what's going on in your mind or what you really need.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_03: For example, many husbands they can't read your mind, they don't know exactly what you want, what you need.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_03: You know, likewise, you know, the wives sometimes don't know what the husband really wants or wants.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_03: So you as a wife or a husband could be putting out all the efforts to make your other half happy.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_03: But you know what?
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_03: You don't know exactly what they want.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_03: So we should get to the place where we are comfortable enough to express to our spouse what we really need.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_03: And I think if we are able to get to that point, you know, be vulnerable enough to say, this is what I need, this is what makes me happy, then I think it will help to, you know, give you know a long marriage or let me say a more fulfilling marriage life.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I actually did that.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_03: I, you know, and and you have to put your spouse first, you know, there was no one that would come before my husband, and he treated me the same way, no one else, you know, and uh two, you have to feel like you're number one in the world, you know, um, as far as your spouse is, you know, and when you feel that way, it can surpass all the things that you know would come in and sort of bring little frictions, but because you you know your spouse's intention based on how you feel and how he treats you, you're not gonna use that one thing that um is not right, not not feeling so right at the time, or you might feel is that you're not gonna take it for you know something negative.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_03: You're gonna overlook it and say, you know, the person maybe didn't mean that also.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: That makes such perfect sense.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I know when we're young and entering marriage, we're we're so we're so pig headed, like we're so stubborn and we have to be right and we have to win.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: And everything you said is so, so true and so so accurate.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: And the the holding grudges, right?
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like you can't hold grudges and and you have to let those things go.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: You can't bring it up in every uh you know, argument afterwards, at the you know, the whole, well, remember that time that you said all of those things, right?
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_03: Like I expressed in my book, yes, you have to be willing to forgive.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_03: And if you forgive your spouse, then you don't bring it up each time, as you rightly say, you know, to trigger something again.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_03: This the spouse will never feel that you have forgiven, you know?
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_03: Because if you're gonna bring something up each time, then it doesn't um give that um message.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: I love what you said too about putting your spouse first before everyone else.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I think that's something that, especially when you have children, um I think wives tend to forget more that uh in the sense that I think when you have children, you instinctively start putting your children first before your marriage.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, husbands maybe they put their their careers before their their spouses.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um how do you how do couples navigate that and and do that?
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think it is, I agree with you.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's so important and I think it's such a beautiful example for your children to see their parents do that.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, yes, and some of that is also in my book.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_03: You know, um a child is very special and precious, especially to a mom.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_03: I know I have my children and they're, you know, like no one else in the world too.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_03: But at the same time, based on the biblical principle, and um, and you know, you have to understand that each um the child has its has his or her place, or children have their places, right?
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_03: Or their place in your life, and your husband has his place in your life.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_03: So I don't think there's a competing um situation.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_03: You just have to balance it out um according to, first of all, I base my life on scriptures and also on reality because your husband does want to, he he wants to feel appreciated as well.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_03: And the children, of course, they need so much emotional support.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, children, they are very needy, you know, especially when they are younger.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_03: And but you have to find time for each other as a married couple, and it's very it's very helpful if you have a husband or a wife, or let me say your spouse is able to understand that it's not because I'm ignoring you, but the child over here has a need right now.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_03: And if both of you can come to that understanding where you can see eye to eye that the child really needs attention at this moment, you know, even if I have to take away a little from you at this moment, it's not for any, you know, malicious reason, but it's because the child is in need.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_03: And as a husband or a wife, should be able, if you have already built trust, you should be able to understand that it's our child, and this child needs attention, so it should not um allow you to feel that you're being neglected.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_03: So there has to be a balance and and on an understanding between you know both of you.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: You said it right there, balance.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's that balance, and it and you're so right.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: I love the way you illustrated that how important having that balance in a relationship is, in a marriage, is when, especially, of course, when you have children.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_03: Surely, yeah.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, speaking of children, you raised, like we said earlier, you raised four children.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what did parenthood teach you about God that maybe you didn't understand before coming a parent?
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, may I let me say, um, actually I grew up in the church, so I was sort of, you know, and around, you know, older people in the church, because I mean, my book said it, but let me put it out there.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_03: I lost my mother from I was seven years old.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my goodness.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_03: I grew up with my godly grandmother and you know, rest of relatives.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but um patience is really um a lot that you have to learn.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_03: Because, you know, we can say we have patience or we have different things, but not until it's tested.
• 11:44
  unknown: Yeah.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_03: Before we realize, you know, what it really is.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_03: You know, so patience, you know, I had to learn a lot of patience because, you know, when you're, you know, raising these children and they're, you know, you you you you expect as a mother, you know, um, to speak to them once or twice and it's done or so, but then you realize that it's an everyday thing, repetition.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_03: You have to go over and over.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_03: And also, but but then it brings back the reflection on Christ that you know he's patient with us because we we have been, you know, doing things that's not authorized by the scriptures, not willingly per se, but we make mistakes, but God is still patient with us and um forgiving.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_03: And even sometimes, you know, I think there I've seen it around people who have carried grudges for years, even with their children.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_03: Every day you hear it and you see it.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_03: But then no matter what that child does, you even after they grow up or anything, you still have to love them and forgive them, regardless of you know who they become, you know, in life or so, but you still have to exercise that patience and that love.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_03: And that's what God gave to us, his love, and he's still patient with us while we are, you know, trying, you know, to follow him and follow his will.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's so, so true.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so you know, your children were are so blessed.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't grow up in in church.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't that didn't come till much, much later in life.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm always um just I have so much admiration and respect for um parents who raise their children with church, with God like that, uh, because I feel like they just have they they just have this force field around them of protection and security and knowing who they are in Christ.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's you know the the greatest gift um that you can give your children, really.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um what other things do you think children need most from their parents that you know has nothing to do with money and education and activities or material things?
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I know number one would be knowing God, right?
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, the the need to know that you care.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_03: Because there are times when you might not, you know, be able to give them all the things they need, even speaking from experience, but they know that you care.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_03: The reason why they might not get the thing that they need is because you really don't have it.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_03: And it's I believe it's our duty as parents to um enlighten our children or to let them have a part or a say in their own affair.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_03: Um and also concerning things about them, like my book states you as a parent, you don't um lead in a way or parent in a way as if it's all about you.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_03: You have to um function or you have to um show the children where they come in in your decision that you're making about them.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_03: For example, even for them choosing a career, you might want to be a doctor or lawyer, some you know, other high prestige job.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_03: And then some of us base it on, you know, what income is in this field or what is in that field.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_03: But if, for example, if a child, you say, you know, I wanted to be a doctor, but that child doesn't feel that calling, you know, to be a doctor, they don't have what it takes.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe they can't look at certain things in that field, you know.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_03: But because as a parent, because of economy, some people, you know, might say yes, or they also want to be like seen in society as having like a child as a doctor or so.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_03: But I believe that as parents, we should help the children to channel the area that they desire to be in.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, referring to my book, like my book stated, you might not feel that it's good enough for, or you would not want your child to be just a barber or you know, just say, you know, a chef.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_03: You know what?
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_03: That's what the child wants to be.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_03: And as a parent, I believe what we should do is to help them in the area that they need, they want to go, that their their heart is calling them to be in.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_03: We can um emphasize the economics of choosing a job, and so make sure they know why you thought of something else for them or thought of them being a doctor.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_03: But also, I think it's very important to recognize what that child wants to be and help them in that instead of you know trying to, you know, trying to to take your position as a parent and forgetting that they have a say in their life.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_03: And I think so many parents, you know, do that because of their own ego and self-gratification or whatever it is in society.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_03: I want my child to be a doctor, I want my child to be a pilot or something, forgetting that they should have a say in where their life goes, you know, with the help of parents, you know.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um I like that.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you give them kind of like the framework, you know, as the parent, you give them the framework of what it takes to be successful, but you don't force them into the lane that you picture them going in, right?
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like you give them like, you know, here's what you you have to have good work ethic, um, you have to be, you know, reliable, all of those things.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so I'm gonna give you the framework of how to be a productive person, but you get to choose the lane of, you know, of what your your career path is gonna be.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I I I I agree with you so much that um, you know, the the focus should be on what what truly is best for them and and obviously not what's our our ideals or or what we have in our mind, you know, selfishly, right?
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_03: And I actually, um, as I grow older and you know, life, life's experiences, you know, um teach you, every job is important in society.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_03: I might not want my child to aspire for you know the highest position, but at the same time, if he chooses for something else, it is still important in society.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_03: If you look around, every area of work contributes to society.
• 18:10
  unknown: Right.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_03: For example, if everybody was a doctor, everybody was a nurse, a teacher, whatever, who would do some of the other things?
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_03: Who would you know cultivate the food?
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_03: Who would, you know, um, as much as it might sound away, but who would help to take the garbage?
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's just everything in society um um comes together to make things better.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_03: And I I I think that no one should be put down once you're a worthwhile um um citizen or your worthwhile person in society, whatever you are doing to make a living should be respected.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: Talk to me a little bit about raising children who are you know strong in their faith and and stick with it in a world that constantly tries to push them away from that.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you have the the the word and the world, and they're always clashing.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: How how do we help our children stay on the the right path for their lives?
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I think um my children, which are you know a little older than this generation, I think this generation has it very, very hard.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_03: And um, you know, what I did with my children, I always correct them according to the word of God.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_03: And for example, you know, if they do something wrong, I'm not gonna say, um, because I'm so upset, you know, I'm gonna act away.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna say, what does God say about it?
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_03: What does the Bible say about lying?
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_03: What does the Bible say about this?
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I always bring them to the point to understand that they I can from with me, they can get away with certain things, but there are certain things that God requires.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_03: So even though mom and dad can overlook it and have no control, if it's not right in the side of God, there's a consequence.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_03: So I always point them in that direction that listen, even if I'm not happy about it, I am not the ultimate reason for you to do the right thing.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_03: It's because you have to account to God for it.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_03: So I really raise them in that um direction.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, over time, something is being our children, they just see that.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_03: And constantly, um, it's constantly reinforced in the home.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_03: They will it, you know, like the Bible said, train up a child in the way he should go on, go.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_03: And when he's old, he will not depart from it.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_03: So if that's what surrounds them, you know, um, all the time, eventually they will grasp it.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_03: And even they might not understand it at the beginning, but after a while, as they grow older, they will get to understand that um, you know, that's what it is.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_03: So for me, getting them to focus in that direction, which of course was difficult, you know, um, in a way, because of the sun, they have never gone that direction, thank God.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_03: But to get them there, I believe it's the word, and I always pray for them, commit them, you know, in the care of the Lord, teach them the word, and leave the rest in the hand of the Lord.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_03: And so I am very proud of them.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_03: They all are Christians, they live, they they're just amazing children, you know, both in the physical, their achievements, and when it comes to um standing up for you know their the principle of God, they are well in that.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_03: But now I have a task on my hand.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_03: I'm working with the 11 grandchildren, you know, to sort of, you know, my children are already grown and they are stable in the Lord, basically.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_03: But um, the grandchildren, you know, in this time they're living in, and you know, some of them are very young too.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_03: So I am trying to teach them the word and remind them, remember.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: This is what will pay the right dividend at the end.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_03: You know, so that's it.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: I I really like what you said about being consistent in what you told the children and where you led them, that it was always led to, well, what does the Bible say?
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's so valuable.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: And then uh I suspect, I'm sure I'm right to suspect that both you and your husband were, you know, just wonderful role models for them.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: And and they probably just naturally wanted to um to do what you were doing because you led by example.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think that's you know such a beautiful thing because I I think it's an easy trap for parents to fall under to, you know, to do the do as I say, not as I do.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, I think that's probably where a lot of trouble comes in because, you know, sure, sure they may listen to you for a short period of time, but when they're out in the world, they're gonna be, you know, remembering that, well, you know, you didn't do this, so why should I?
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: And um, so that you gave that um foundation for them is is such a treasure.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: And like you said, now there's 11 grandchildren.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, tell me how that experience with them is different from your own children.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, it's amazing, isn't it?
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_03: So, well, you know, my late husband and I, they actually, you know, think that we spoil them, you know, and they keep talking about it, you know, sometimes.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_03: And even when I visit them, sometimes they say, Look, look, you know, she's just oh, the grandchild, because you know what, once they say something, I'm I'm ready to, you know, like, you know, try to, you know, and sometimes they say, It's up to you and your grandma, because I I don't, you know, things like that.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_03: So it's a different.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I say that, you know, when you have the grandchildren, it's like there's a different place in your heart.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_03: It's just like you know, you know, they're just so special, and you know, you like you can't say no to them.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_03: You just you know, you have to try so hard to say no to them.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, guilty as charged, yes.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_03: I get talked about um like that too, you know.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_03: And the children know they they come they come to grandma, and you know, grandpa is gone now, but yeah, you know, they they're they just know that we are there for them.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_03: So it's really, yeah, those grandchildren are just so much.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_03: And then um sometimes, you know, I you know, quite a few times, um I used to have all of them together because you know, women used to be at our house every year, and everyone would be there, you know.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_03: So we'd be the, you know, at the time before my husband passed, it was 10.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_03: After he passed, one more came.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_03: But it was always everybody together as a family, and we had so much fun, you know.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_03: You know, so you know, it is good.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, uh they are all actually following in the steps of their parents, they are all in the church, you know, sing on the choir, they you know, things like that.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, I'm I'm very happy um for them and they take a they have a special place in my heart.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I totally get it.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: And and it's so they're just such a treasure, aren't they?
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's just yes, they are.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's almost indescribable um what they what they do to our hearts.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's uh it's just oh my goodness, uh a blessing upon blessing upon blessing.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, yes.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: So let's talk a little bit more uh about faith and and the role that that plays.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's you know, it's really easy to tell somebody to just trust God, right?
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: But and that's obviously super easy when life is going well.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: How do we trust God um when you're going through a really difficult season?
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: How can you help them understand how that works?
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um, first, you know, you have to believe the word of God, the promises of God, and you know, whatever it says.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_03: The Bible tells us that we'll have trials and those things.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_03: And I always say, if we can trust God to um bring salvation to us, then we should be able to trust him for a house, a car, a job, or whatever, whatever we need.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_03: He's the same God.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_03: And when you go through the trials and the different things, which I always say, if God cannot deliver you, nothing else will.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_03: So go through the the trials and in everything, God has a reason.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_03: For example, if one of them, you know, would go for a job interview and that job, they didn't get that job, even though they're qualified or so, you know, or I would say don't take it as a disappointment.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_03: God has a better one, God has a different one, is because He didn't want you there.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_03: Because if you did everything that you had to do and you didn't get it, it means that that wasn't the one for you.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_03: Because if we, you know, as I try to, you know, um help them to understand, if we say, order my steps, Lord, you know, we have to give him that privilege, the opportunity to say, God, I give you permission to order my steps.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_03: And I believe that you're ordering it.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_03: So even though this is happening that I don't understand, just give me the grace or the strength to go through.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_03: And I give you the example, my husband passed suddenly, basically.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_03: And it was very hard for me to understand, and um, but I had to rely on my faith to say, Lord, you are the one that knows everything.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_03: And the fact that you choose to take him I just give me the strength, uh, you know, to and the grace to really go through not blaming you, you know, not feeling, you know, as if something else would happen, because he's God and he knows why.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_03: I have to, you know, come to that realization, like I have in my book, God knows best.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_03: And if we can trust him for the little things, or when things are good, we should be able to trust him when things are not good in our estimation, because God knows best, and things that happen to us in our lives, God knows why they have and he will give us the grace to go through, but we have to know who to go to for it.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_03: Because in certain situations, nobody else can help you but him.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_03: So the word of God is uh is is what we should focus on and his promises and knowing that he said no good thing will he withhold from us.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_03: So however we feel, you know, God knows best and he cares for us, and that is important to know.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: One of the first things that drew me to Christianity, to to faith, uh, was observing a Christian in the midst of grief, of loss, and the exact words that you said, the the grace uh and strength that I remember seeing her exhibit.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I couldn't understand because I was trying to put myself in her shoes.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like I would just be so devastated.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: I wouldn't be able to do the things that she's doing uh because of grief.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: And and I came to understand that it was it was her faith, it was her trust uh in God that that gave her the ability to um grieve.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: Still, of course, you don't stop grieving, but it's a it's a different, it's just different.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: And and I see that in you.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um you still have this beautiful light that you share with others and and um joy that you have.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, now as a Christian, I understand it.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: I understand where where it comes from.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um but it's you know, it never, it never ceases me, uh ceases to amaze me and um impress me when I see it right in front of me uh on display.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: And um, but it gives me hope to see that you can, you can be okay.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: You can still grieve and be okay somehow at the same time.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: And the somehow, of course, is is with God and through God.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: So um I I'm so grateful to you for sharing that with us, sharing this in your book, because there's so many people um that are in pain, right?
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: That are that are hurting and that are lost and that just need, they just need a direction to go and just somewhere to put their hope and their faith.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: And and I love that you're doing that through your book for people.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's beautiful.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_03: And as you you stated, um, many people keep saying to me, Oh, you're so strong.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_03: I can't believe you're still going and you don't, you know, because you know, they think that I've, you know, even people call me, um, and I can say that these are not, but people who are in ministry to, they call me and they say they're calling to encourage me.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember one person telling me that, oh, I call you to try to strengthen you.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_03: And right now, you're the one that's strengthening me.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_03: And even situations that I was going through, just by talking to you, I get the courage to go and do those challenging situations because you know, I call to encourage you because of your loss, and know you're the one who has given me that encouragement, you know, and and and um that great, you know, strength to go and face my situation.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_03: You know, so I always say to them, it's the grace of God, it's the strength, you know, that God has given, you know, and every day I give him um the glory.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_03: I take no credit for even raising my children.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_03: I said it's all because of what God did, you know, because committing them into the hand of God, God has had the opportunity or the privilege, whatever, to because you give that those children to him, he takes care of them.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_03: So, whatever happens, as I said, you're saying that I'm so strong, but I attributed everything to God's grace and his strength, you know.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I live in that every day.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's a beautiful thing.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_03: Another thing, too, that I want people to understand is that your mind can be clogged and overtaken by grief and all the things that happen to you.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_03: But if we take the time out to be thankful for the good things instead of focusing on the bad things or the things that are not desires, you know, that happened to us.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_03: Because if our minds get to that place, because I had to redirect, you know, you with the strength of the Lord, I had to redirect my mind through the word of God and say, I will not allow, you know, my mind to be taken up with grief so much that I cannot praise God or I cannot see the hand of God in my life or the the good things that God has done.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_03: So I made that effort.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_03: I said, Lord, I'm asking you for that strength to carry on, to still trust you in spite of everything.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_03: And thank God He, you know, He He restored my joy.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_03: Because of course my joy had left because it was just how am I gonna get through this situation?
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_03: How am I gonna really, you know, and knowing that he was such an amazing man, you know, even the book talks a lot about him because people asked me to write it.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_03: They wanted, and I said, I cannot write about him because you know he's my husband.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_03: If you're gonna write, you know, it's gonna seem like you're gonna fabricate things.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_03: Sure.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_03: I think the idea came from somebody who said, you know what, you know what, let all of us write it.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_03: And it's over 50 different, you know, people from all over who have written about you know the things, you know, because my husband and I, we weren't just like, you know, um, what do you call it, theoretical Christians.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_03: We were practical, we were always helping people in the lives of those who are in need in every year of their lives.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_03: And state some of that too.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_03: And um, that's you know, that's that's how we live our lives, reaching out to people.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_03: So it was very devastating, you know, for a lot of people.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_03: And as a matter of fact, I found myself, I mean, I don't know where I got the strength from, but I found myself comforting young ministers who came in my office and they were bawling over the loss of my husband.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_03: And I yeah, you know, people came there, they ran out because they and I say, you know what?
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_03: Just the Lord knows best, and you know, let's just leave it in the hand of the Lord.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I understand how I could, you know, just grieve, but it's all because of God's strength.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_03: Because I told him, You're the only one that can help me through this.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_03: You know, thank God today.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_03: I can smile, I I can speak of my husband without breaking down in tears, you know.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_03: God has restored my joy, and I just thank him every day.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_03: Anything comes to my mind, I just give him thanks.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_03: Really write this book, you know, that it can help somebody who's going through their struggles, you know, um losing your mother at an early age of seven, but God kept you through, provided for you, and you know, coming, you know, through life and then losing, you know, my husband at the end, you know, I've you know, I've okay.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, sorta, I'm taking away all the expectations, you know, the plans, expectations and thing, you know, but still I have to just give God thanks.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_03: It's that disappointment, you know.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: You have such a a humble, um, beautiful way of sharing your story.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm so looking forward to reading your book.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: And and just um, I just feel like it will help me grow as as a Christian, just as a person, just as a Christian and a person.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then just to have the opportunity to learn your story because your your life experiences um are just and what you've done with those experiences, I think is is the most compelling.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, how you you worked and did everything you could to not only, of course, point point everything to God, which you were just doing now, which I I love so much, um, but to also um just encourage, just the encouragement that you're offering through your own life experiences, um, is just such a wonderful treasure and uh a testament to who you are, just who you are as a human being.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: And um, the legacy that you leave for your children and your grandchildren is just magnificent.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: So um I have so much joy for you, um, despite your losses and and the challenges that you've had, uh, just to see and to hear about what you've done with all of that is beautiful.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_01: And and I thank you so much for sharing all of that with us.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, absolutely.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_01: Can you do me a favor and tell everyone where they can find your book and um if there's a website, if they can uh find your website, all that good stuff?
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_03: For now, my book can be um brought on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, and it's also an in Ingram Spark, something like yes.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yep, yep, yes, yes, it's there.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_03: And there it's on other platforms.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_03: So if you Google it, you will see all the different platforms that it's on.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_03: But for the you know, the most common platform is Amazon and Barnes and Noble for now, and Ingram Spark.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_01: So wonderful, such an absolute treasure.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I I want to thank you again for for joining me today.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: And for our audience, everyone, those links for the books, everything will be in the show notes.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: You'll be able to click right on it, go right to it and purchase them.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, again, it was a joy having you on, and uh, I just wish you all all of the greatest success with everything.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, it was nice to be here.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_03: It was a joy speaking with you, and I look forward um to more times, probably maybe writing another book or so.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_03: But you know, the experience here speaks.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_03: And I I trust this book will really reach the heart of people.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_03: Because for me, it's what God placed in my heart.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I believe it can help somebody out here because you are living in challenge, challenging times.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, God wants his God wants families to be together, he wants the children to grow.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_03: He just wants, you know, parenting to be what he orders it to be.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_03: So I I I'm looking forward to having that book reaching others and touching the lives of many.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_01: I agree with you.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you again, and guys, we'll see you in the next episode.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_01: Take care.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: You've got a story worth sharing.
• 38:06
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• 38:07
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• 38:20
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• 38:28
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