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Bonus Patreon Release: Beautiful Dreamer! With Erica Schultz and Patricio Oliver! · Graymalkin Lane the podcast

0:00
[SPEAKER_04]: Beautiful dreamer, wake unto me.
0:04
[SPEAKER_04]: Starlight and do drops are waiting for thee.
0:08
[SPEAKER_04]: Sounds of the rude world heard in the day.
0:13
[SPEAKER_04]: Load by the moonlight of all past away.
0:17
[SPEAKER_04]: Beautiful dreamer, queen of my song.
0:22
[SPEAKER_04]: List while I woo thee with soft melody Gone are the cares of life's busy throng Beautiful dreamer awake unto me Beautiful dreamer out on the sea Mermaids are chanting the wild Laura Lee
0:42
[SPEAKER_04]: Over the streamlit vapors are born, waiting to fade at the bright coming horn, beautiful dreamer beam on my heart, in as the mourn on the streamlit and sea.
0:58
[SPEAKER_04]: Then we'll all clouds of sorrow depart.
1:03
[SPEAKER_04]: Beautiful dreamer awakened to me.
1:07
[SPEAKER_04]: Hey everybody, welcome back to the Green Walk and Lane Patreon channel.
1:10
[SPEAKER_04]: We get to talk all about beautiful dreamer today, who is named after that song.
1:15
[SPEAKER_04]: Let me welcome my incredible guests, the lovely Erica Shultz, and the lovely Patricia Oliver.
1:21
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm so happy to have you both here, your delightful.
1:24
[SPEAKER_04]: Let me have you introduce yourselves.
1:26
[SPEAKER_04]: Tell everybody your pronouns a little about you, and I would love to hear your early thoughts on beautiful dreamer and the more locks who are all amazing.
1:35
[SPEAKER_04]: Let me welcome Patricia first.
1:36
[SPEAKER_04]: Hi, Patricia.
1:37
[SPEAKER_04]: Welcome back to dreamer.
1:39
[SPEAKER_00]: I think so.
1:39
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to be back again.
1:40
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm so pleased to be here again.
1:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'm Patrici Oliver, pronoun Schihin, and from Buenos Aires, I was a dean in the south of the universe, and I'm a graphic designer, illustrator, comic book artist, and university teacher here in Buenos Aires University.
1:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I adore how mysterious she is, how little we know about her.
2:03
[SPEAKER_00]: I love how she dresses.
2:05
[SPEAKER_00]: She's amazing.
2:06
[SPEAKER_00]: She has this sort of decadent glamour in her.
2:10
[SPEAKER_00]: I love that.
2:11
[SPEAKER_00]: And I love the more looks.
2:12
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, for me, the more looks are like one of the most incredible creations from the X-Men and from the 80s.
2:18
[SPEAKER_00]: I adore what they mean, what they they think that they symbolism, they have behind them.
2:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that the L.A. 80s
2:31
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, there's some really incredible characters, and we're going to get into some of the weird ones in this, but I think that looks as well.
2:37
[SPEAKER_04]: Another person who loves the more logs is Erica Schultz, because she's been writing about him.
2:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Hi, Erica.
2:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Hi, how are you?
2:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Patricia is so nice to meet you, and by the way, speaking of lovely, you really do have a very lovely voice chat.
2:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
2:50
[SPEAKER_01]: My name is Erica Schultz.
2:52
[SPEAKER_01]: I am a comic book writer and currently writing Lord Kenny Wolverine from Marvel and Spawn Rett City for Todd McFarlane, Productions and Image Comics.
3:01
[SPEAKER_01]: I did have a beautiful dreamer in issue number seven of Lord Kenny Wolverine.
3:07
[SPEAKER_01]: She was a lot of fun to work with.
3:08
[SPEAKER_04]: She's an interesting character.
3:10
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, so beautiful dreamer.
3:11
[SPEAKER_04]: The song that I just sang was an old parlor song from like the 1860s.
3:15
[SPEAKER_04]: The writer Stephen Foster, a lot of people say this was his last song, but they say that about several of his songs.
3:21
[SPEAKER_04]: He has an interesting thing.
3:22
[SPEAKER_04]: Parlor songs, right?
3:23
[SPEAKER_04]: You sing them around the piano and the bar.
3:25
[SPEAKER_04]: It's the kind of thing everybody can ship in with.
3:27
[SPEAKER_04]: You picture like a lady on a swing almost.
3:29
[SPEAKER_04]: So I kind of view this song.
3:31
[SPEAKER_04]: This song almost has kind of a haunting little to it.
3:34
[SPEAKER_04]: Stephen Foster would sometimes write about women who had passed.
3:38
[SPEAKER_04]: One of his most famous songs by for example, was Juni with the light brown hair.
3:42
[SPEAKER_04]: He had a sister that died.
3:44
[SPEAKER_04]: He's well studied, well regarded.
3:46
[SPEAKER_04]: He's written some songs you've definitely heard of.
3:48
[SPEAKER_04]: And this song has been recorded by many, many artists over the years.
3:52
[SPEAKER_04]: I think the first place I ever heard it was on pushing daisies that like old like musical hour-long television show from like the early 2000s, where the lady that played the Audrey in Little Shop of Horrors that I just played her sang this song on an episode.
4:09
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a green green.
4:09
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
4:10
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm like, that's lovely.
4:11
[SPEAKER_04]: And I remember looking this song up at the time.
4:14
[SPEAKER_04]: It's been recorded by Bing Crosby, maybe most famously, but there's a lot of people, like Jerry Lewis and Roy Orbison, and so this is a super famous song.
4:21
[SPEAKER_04]: Were you guys familiar?
4:23
[SPEAKER_04]: I think even Bobby Darin did a version of this, which is just funny to me.
4:27
[SPEAKER_04]: Were you guys familiar with the song version of this?
4:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I was vaguely for I knew that it was an old parlor song and I knew that it had and I knew like if I heard if I started to hear the melody I'd be like oh yeah I know what that is.
4:41
[SPEAKER_01]: I and and it's not just I mean Bobby Darren yeah and then Crosby but I mean so many people recorded this.
4:48
[SPEAKER_04]: This was like a b-side I think for so many people but yeah I mean I was familiar with it and it took a second for the click to be oh that's why she named beautiful dreamer yeah you know it gives a little bit of like a haunting vibe There's very if you guys know the story of Laura lie one of my earliest patriouts with demand It was on Laura lie which is about that like the siren lady on the sea that enchants sailors and they crash right
5:11
[SPEAKER_04]: And Laura is very that character beautiful dreamer has very much the it's that kind of feeling you get when you first wake up or are falling to sleep and there's kind of an image often the distance that's going to lure you away it kind of gives that energy a little bit a patricia were you familiar with the song?
5:28
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I've heard before in any, I don't know if I horror movie or something like that like an all recording but I'm not sure it's like when I first read the lyrics I say I know this song and when you start singing it I say I know this song but I'm not sure where I can place in my mind where I remember it from but I'm sure I've heard on I don't know any horror movie with an all like vinyl
5:48
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, sure.
5:51
[SPEAKER_04]: You want to picture like a classic like beautiful woman sing this, but it's like that echo sound and there's like a creepy girl climbing up the stairs And there's a hurry.
6:01
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, no, I really love the the imagery of that.
6:04
[SPEAKER_04]: I think it's fantastic
6:05
[SPEAKER_04]: Now, where did you both first meet the more locks as fans?
6:09
[SPEAKER_04]: These are characters.
6:11
[SPEAKER_04]: I believe I first met them in the X-Men cartoon, where there's the episode where the X-Men are like, oh, you guys are all homeless.
6:19
[SPEAKER_04]: So we're going to come in the sewer tunnels and celebrate Christmas with you instead of inviting you back to our fancy mansion.
6:27
[SPEAKER_01]: probably the cartoon and then fouling up with the comic.
6:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Actually, my first uncanny Xman issue has the more looks in it.
6:34
[SPEAKER_00]: It was an issue from the 80s when the pressure was up with Chris Claremont and Paul Smith.
6:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Actually, there's first appearance.
6:41
[SPEAKER_00]: So I fall in love with them at first sight because they were like, oh, these are the Xman.
6:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, and these are the more looks.
6:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow, it's like it was a very, it was an incredible introduction to the mutant world and lore.
6:53
[SPEAKER_00]: So I love, I love, I love, I love, I love,
6:55
[SPEAKER_00]: how what the more looks we present in culture and in terms of subculture and how I mean the whole situation where oh we have a mansion you can come and leave with us or maybe not because you don't look that good and you don't look like cool mutants you didn't so maybe you should stay here in the subways and height hidden.
7:15
[SPEAKER_04]: So the word morelox so the phrase morelox is originally from the HG Wells novel the time machine and there are a couple of races the morelox in the
7:24
[SPEAKER_04]: who are a lawyer, who are introduced.
7:28
[SPEAKER_04]: And I don't know what the origin of the characters are, basically, but the more looks of the antagonists in the book.
7:33
[SPEAKER_04]: They're these little monster creatures who live underground and are going to come get you basically.
7:38
[SPEAKER_04]: So that name has been appropriated.
7:40
[SPEAKER_04]: I think in a lot of different places, most notably in the X-Men, I think.
7:44
[SPEAKER_04]: But HG Wells also used them in other versions of his books.
7:48
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you want to tell us Patricio a little bit about the more lock view of the more mutant world?
7:53
[SPEAKER_04]: By the way, from my long-term listeners, we've done a lot of character episodes.
7:57
[SPEAKER_04]: This isn't the first more lock I've ever done, which is crazy to me, because I love these characters.
8:01
[SPEAKER_00]: And the more notes, from my point of view, is the first, like, culture, and just like the first mutant society that we see, I'm coming books in terms of culture and what they do together.
8:12
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we know how we have Krakow and how I'm coming books, but I think the first time we are introducing to a mutant culture is the more looks, because they leave us a tribe.
8:21
[SPEAKER_00]: They are not a super team, they're not.
8:22
[SPEAKER_00]: So they are trying to be super billions or to conquer the world.
8:26
[SPEAKER_00]: They just want to survive.
8:27
[SPEAKER_00]: So they are this created family where they have to gather together, because they have another, they don't have any other choice.
8:33
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't have a passing, they can't go on the streets and pretend to be human.
8:37
[SPEAKER_00]: So in many ways, it's so connected to the queer community.
8:40
[SPEAKER_00]: It's very interesting how we have these mutants who are more like an elite of mutants, and then we have the other mutants who are not that cool.
8:49
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, storm could be on the cover of Bob magazine if she wants to.
8:53
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, mask, play, play, callyvane, no decant.
8:57
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's impossible for them.
8:59
[SPEAKER_00]: And they have this sort of community and they have the rules, they have their way of living, they have the traditions.
9:05
[SPEAKER_00]: For me, it's amazing, it's incredible.
9:06
[SPEAKER_00]: I wish some writers will keep on developing what the more-lox symbolism is in terms of society and culture, because I adore the whole mythos.
9:16
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think climate was very, very intelligent, when he decided to create the more-lox in terms of symbolism and what they're representing society.
9:23
[SPEAKER_04]: The more looks are amazing.
9:24
[SPEAKER_04]: They are found family at the end degree.
9:27
[SPEAKER_04]: They give me a lot of, so they were created in the mid 80s, right?
9:31
[SPEAKER_04]: And they give me a lot of almost, this isn't probably the right comparison, but did you guys ever see the lost boys?
9:36
[SPEAKER_04]: It's kind of this, you know, we run away from home and we form our own society by our own rules.
9:42
[SPEAKER_04]: We're watching, a lot of people are watching to show yellow jackets right now, which is the girls in the woods, you know, who have to form their own society.
9:48
[SPEAKER_04]: The more looks, almost give that kind of energy.
9:51
[SPEAKER_04]: and do things on our terms, but also let's make it fashion.
9:55
[SPEAKER_04]: They live in the abandoned subway tunnels underneath New York City, and they've established even though they've left society behind, they've established their own rules, in the way that we've later seen expanded in genosha and araco and cracoa,
10:08
[SPEAKER_04]: We're going to form society by our rules.
10:11
[SPEAKER_04]: We're going to welcome anyone who belongs.
10:14
[SPEAKER_04]: If you are dangerous, if you are ugly, if you don't fit, even if your powers are not super, like we're going to create a space where you are safe.
10:22
[SPEAKER_04]: And I can't imagine living in those concrete tunnels under New York City, but they make it work.
10:26
[SPEAKER_04]: And there's a whole society of how that happens.
10:29
[SPEAKER_04]: Now, in the early 2000s, I was a college student long before I was out.
10:33
[SPEAKER_04]: I was getting ready to write on the Marvel Handbooks, and I used to write a lot of X-Men stories just like I do now, and I remember developing a whole like origin story for the Morlocks and how they came to be.
10:43
[SPEAKER_04]: And beautiful Dreamer was a big part of that.
10:45
[SPEAKER_04]: So this is a character that I've had in my brain for a really long time.
10:48
[SPEAKER_04]: I really like her.
10:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's very, very interesting that they show that even though we don't belong and I put it in quotes, they belong with each other, they belong to each other.
11:00
[SPEAKER_01]: They are a family and the juxtaposition of them as the family versus like Petitio saying, like the cool ex-men.
11:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's interesting because some of them that do have, some of them are very powerful.
11:15
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, beautiful dreamer has a very powerful ability.
11:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Annabelle, a very powerful ability, Torpid, you know, who's basically rogue in like a tiny little form, you know what I mean, they, and Caliban, he's he's a walking some re-brows, you know what I mean, I mean, there are people that these are people that look different and they are the epitome of don't judge a book by its cover.
11:41
[SPEAKER_01]: And I find it very, very interesting that you have the more locks who are, quote, like, undesirable.
11:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Yet later, we have the X-Men taking in people like Blink or Beak and people that are rock-slide.
11:56
[SPEAKER_01]: People like that who would, just by looking at them, you would think, or glob herment even.
12:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Like looking at them, you would think, what?
12:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, exactly.
12:08
[SPEAKER_01]: You would think that these are the people that should be with them more luck.
12:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And yet, they never invite them more luck.
12:15
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that if they ever turned around and tried to, they'd be like, no, I'm not going to do it.
12:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And we kind of explore that in Laura
12:27
[SPEAKER_01]: beautiful dream or escape, where it says where you're going, and she's like, you know, about to go through into a sewer tunnel.
12:34
[SPEAKER_01]: She's like, where are you going?
12:35
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, there's a place for you up here.
12:37
[SPEAKER_01]: No, there's not.
12:39
[SPEAKER_01]: No place for me up here.
12:40
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's not just because of the way she loves.
12:43
[SPEAKER_01]: She says, when I come up here, everybody exploits me for my abilities, everybody wants that perfect world.
12:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And all that does is make me feel terrible and shittier about the world that I live in.
12:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that that's really important.
12:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's a very important perspective that people need to think about, especially with social media and with everything that we see.
13:04
[SPEAKER_04]: There's a lot of intense more like stories, a lot of it's about their destruction, their persecution, the more like massacre, obviously, when Mikhail floods the tunnels and takes them all to the hill, even on Cricola where they're expected to coexist alongside the Marauders.
13:20
[SPEAKER_04]: So each of these characters, though, has their own origin story.
13:23
[SPEAKER_04]: And this is where we love queerness and the X-Men, but queerness and the more-locks boy could we write a lot of stories there.
13:28
[SPEAKER_04]: Every one of these characters came from somewhere.
13:30
[SPEAKER_04]: So some of them, if you live in New York and you can't qualify for an apartment because of the way you look and you can't get a job or an address or a phone and also you're not safe living as an unhoused person because of the way you look like where you're gonna go, right?
13:46
[SPEAKER_04]: And so to form secret societies,
13:48
[SPEAKER_04]: There are a lot of, by the way, homeless communities or on-house communities out there where people will form networks and they watch out for each other.
13:58
[SPEAKER_04]: And there's a ranking of here's how you behave and here's how you get along and here's the standards that you live by and here's where we draw the line.
14:06
[SPEAKER_04]: We don't think of that, but if you talk to anyone who's ever been on-house, you'll learn that in various cities, there are various networks of resources for people to survive and be together.
14:16
[SPEAKER_04]: For example, I lived in Quarterland, Idaho for several years before moving to Salt Lake City.
14:20
[SPEAKER_04]: I worked a lot with the homeless, and there was one particular encampment where in the winter because there was cold there, they would all dig graves for each other.
14:28
[SPEAKER_04]: They would call them graves, they would call them places where they'd sleep, and they would line the graves in cardboard, and then put a covering on top.
14:35
[SPEAKER_04]: Because when people wanted to sleep, they could pull the covering aside, sleep inside in the cardboard, and stay relatively warm in their enclosed space.
14:43
[SPEAKER_04]: and then they would pull the cardboard back in the mornings and be able to interact and build fires and interact together.
14:48
[SPEAKER_04]: And there was certain parts of the community.
14:50
[SPEAKER_04]: They were initiation rights to get in and they were some pretty good people, right?
14:54
[SPEAKER_04]: So it kind of depends.
14:55
[SPEAKER_04]: It's an interesting thing to view.
14:57
[SPEAKER_04]: So every one of these characters came from somewhere.
14:59
[SPEAKER_04]: Some of them didn't fit.
15:01
[SPEAKER_04]: Some of them are escaping tragedy.
15:03
[SPEAKER_04]: Some of them just didn't fit into the wider world.
15:05
[SPEAKER_04]: And some of them are really awful people.
15:08
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's what makes it fun too because there's some real monsters down there not metaphorically, but like real actual monsters If you guys all pick like one or two favorites, who are the characters among the more locks that are like, ah, this is this is my character I love this person.
15:22
[SPEAKER_01]: I like the sod and I like the beautiful dreamer the first one you said the sod Just saw it.
15:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, I like that idea of like being able to be that fly on the wall like literally You're talking about mommy
15:34
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, not Tommy.
15:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Tommy is the the the paper thing at all.
15:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
15:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
15:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
15:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Tommy's paper thing and she has the rainbow hair.
15:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
15:42
[SPEAKER_01]: The side can literally like become the wall become the floor become.
15:47
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well,
15:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, he's specifically from OK, no, no, no, no, you can, you can count facade.
15:59
[SPEAKER_04]: It just took me a minute to connect.
16:01
[SPEAKER_04]: So facade isn't one of the more locks from X men evolution in 2002.
16:04
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's a really interesting one.
16:06
[SPEAKER_04]: And I like it.
16:07
[SPEAKER_04]: I said I've never done a more like I did a Tommy episode what's.
16:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so there you go.
16:14
[SPEAKER_01]: But Tommy's great too.
16:15
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
16:15
[SPEAKER_04]: That's amazing.
16:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Patricia, who are your favorites?
16:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Tommy.
16:19
[SPEAKER_00]: I love her.
16:20
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know why we have this.
16:22
[SPEAKER_00]: I've told you before.
16:23
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know why people in the queer community has this connection with Tommy.
16:27
[SPEAKER_00]: It's so like tragic and so amazing.
16:29
[SPEAKER_00]: The way she looks.
16:30
[SPEAKER_00]: It's incredible.
16:31
[SPEAKER_00]: She has this only one appearance.
16:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Some people fall in love with her immediately.
16:36
[SPEAKER_04]: There's more than one now, but yeah, she's painted in the colors of the trans flag.
16:40
[SPEAKER_04]: She, yeah, we're just girl with hair hair hair, Jordan Olson did a Tommy Cosplay a few years ago.
16:47
[SPEAKER_04]: That was amazing, Jordan, we love you.
16:49
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, Tommy's really fascinating.
16:51
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm really connected to the character, Caliban in an odd way.
16:54
[SPEAKER_04]: Caliban was a character.
16:55
[SPEAKER_04]: He was in that kind of dumb, like I don't know who I am, member of X4 space when I was first by in comics, and I really imprinted, and I've shared this on the show before, but I had a series of fish all through my high school years and my 20s and all of my fish weren't in Caliban.
17:10
[UNKNOWN]: That's what I'm talking about.
17:11
[SPEAKER_04]: a funny connection.
17:12
[SPEAKER_04]: I also like some of the weird ones.
17:13
[SPEAKER_04]: Like you can do it.
17:14
[SPEAKER_04]: You guys know bliss, like the girl that like spits her tongue out and it's her own face on her tongue.
17:18
[SPEAKER_04]: Like I love some of the weird characters, a colisto, of course, is amazing.
17:22
[SPEAKER_04]: There's a, there's a, there's a lot of them that I really care about.
17:25
[SPEAKER_04]: I also just released an automatic episode.
17:27
[SPEAKER_04]: We talk about a lot in that one.
17:30
[SPEAKER_04]: There's some good stuff.
17:30
[SPEAKER_04]: So we're going to jump to the world of power pack to open here.
17:34
[SPEAKER_04]: So Luis Simonson is writing power pack with June Brighman in the 1980s and she's bringing in a lot of like the X men stuff.
17:40
[SPEAKER_04]: You guys remember the more like massacre where there's like the infamous issue of X men were Wolverine's team up with like five-year-old Katie power and their, you know, fighting monsters together.
17:49
[SPEAKER_04]: the kids are like lost in the tunnels.
17:51
[SPEAKER_04]: So power pack are little kids who are super powered by aliens and they get lost in the tunnels quite often.
17:56
[SPEAKER_04]: They're having a lot of very dangerous adventures.
17:59
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a child protection should be called as all I'm saying.
18:03
[SPEAKER_04]: So, Luis Simonson and Gene Brigman create a lot of more like characters who Chris Climber later pick up in power pack number 12.
18:09
[SPEAKER_04]: uh, the power pack kids are rescuing a kitten who's been lost in the sewer and they're worried about alligators down there and they do meet alligators because they're being controlled by the more lock named Piper.
18:19
[SPEAKER_04]: Not to be confused with the savage land mutate character, Piper.
18:22
[SPEAKER_04]: And we'll talk about him in a second.
18:23
[SPEAKER_04]: They also meet a whole bunch of new more locks and they all seem kind of like archetypes of people that you might have met on the streets in New York in the 1980s, which is funny.
18:30
[SPEAKER_04]: So Piper to me kind of looks like fizzy wig from the old Christmas
18:35
[SPEAKER_04]: little portly guy with a terrible beard and like a little happy flute that he can control animals with.
18:40
[SPEAKER_04]: We've got Erg, an Erg is a unit of energy measurement.
18:43
[SPEAKER_04]: Erg is like a punk in like stripped clothes, black mohawk iPotch.
18:47
[SPEAKER_04]: He has to lift his patch to fire blasts out of his eyes.
18:50
[SPEAKER_04]: He's got a dog collar on.
18:51
[SPEAKER_04]: He absorbs energy and then re-blast it.
18:53
[SPEAKER_04]: And this one's a little problematic.
18:55
[SPEAKER_04]: We got a character named Tar Baby.
18:57
[SPEAKER_04]: It was the 80s.
18:58
[SPEAKER_04]: Tar Baby's not a great name, but the phrase delicately means kind of a sticky situation.
19:03
[SPEAKER_04]: Like one that gets worse when you try to solve it, but this has also been used as a racial slayer for black people forever.
19:10
[SPEAKER_04]: go back to song of the South and the Brair Rabbits, Rabbit Story, guitar baby in the more like tunnels, I think is white, but he's also maybe made of tar and also dressed in punk clothes, but he's just kind of like a sticky dude who's got like junk and trash stuck all over him.
19:27
[SPEAKER_04]: He kind of looks like a character you might see in like Fat Albert, like the cartoon in the 80s in an odd way.
19:33
[SPEAKER_04]: We've also got eight, eight seems to be a character who's intellectually disabled,
19:37
[SPEAKER_04]: He's a mutant who just wears kind of scraps of clothing and like an I love New York beanie.
19:42
[SPEAKER_04]: And he can shapeshift and did different objects.
19:43
[SPEAKER_04]: They'll turn into a chair, a vase, whatever trash can.
19:47
[SPEAKER_04]: We've got Analy.
19:48
[SPEAKER_04]: This is the covered in scorpions in famous episode from the X-Men animated series.
19:54
[SPEAKER_04]: She's giving like major bag lady energy like hair in curls and she can manipulate your emotions by touching you.
20:00
[SPEAKER_04]: We've got mask who's in a hood who is very misshapen and can like twist your flesh.
20:06
[SPEAKER_04]: We've got leech who can cancel your powers and he's a little green frog guy.
20:10
[SPEAKER_04]: Kada he's a he's a little cutie and then we've got beautiful dreamer.
20:13
[SPEAKER_00]: I adore how she looks.
20:15
[SPEAKER_00]: She looks so like all Hollywood in many ways like she like I think she used to be like this Hollywood Hollywood all old star you know that she for from grace and then now she's trying to rebuild her life.
20:30
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel she has this amazing like long pink dress with dispatches and she's covering her face I don't know if that's because mask
20:39
[SPEAKER_00]: did something to her or because she's a shame of the way she looks.
20:43
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
20:44
[SPEAKER_00]: She has this whole mysterious thing about her that I love and I love the fact that she's always smoking with Because her powers, they are they call it.
20:52
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it'll call this mind smoke or something like that.
20:56
[SPEAKER_00]: The way she uses shoes is going to have powers.
20:58
[SPEAKER_04]: She's very tall.
21:00
[SPEAKER_04]: She's very, very slim.
21:02
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and she wears like a lanky pink dress like with patches.
21:06
[SPEAKER_04]: There's like a big dress.
21:08
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's giving very like 1920's film star.
21:12
[SPEAKER_04]: I agree with you Patricia.
21:13
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like very old, holding up her normal.
21:17
[SPEAKER_04]: There's a big pink bow at the hip.
21:18
[SPEAKER_04]: She's got like strings of pearls around her neck, black gloves, first stole on her shoulders.
21:25
[SPEAKER_04]: And then there's that characteristic.
21:26
[SPEAKER_04]: She's got the hat.
21:27
[SPEAKER_04]: Sometimes it's black, sometimes it's pink.
21:29
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like the best.
21:30
[SPEAKER_04]: Over her eyes and then the lace netting covers her face.
21:32
[SPEAKER_04]: So she's giving like, I don't know.
21:34
[SPEAKER_04]: It's giving like Greta Garbo, who was
21:36
[SPEAKER_04]: a bunch of movies and was super famous, but then one day they put out the grand hotel because talk movies have come out now, right?
21:42
[SPEAKER_04]: And everyone's like, God, those speaks.
21:44
[SPEAKER_04]: And then when she speaks and everyone's like, oh, she sounds different than I expected.
21:48
[SPEAKER_04]: And she's like, I want to be alone and then Garbo goes into hiding and maybe she moved to the more locked tunnels.
21:53
[SPEAKER_04]: That's kind of
21:54
[SPEAKER_04]: And then the, there's always the single cigarette and her fingers, this is more of a guarantee.
21:59
[SPEAKER_04]: Patricio, the cover for this episode is gonna be the character redesign that you did for the camera.
22:05
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you want to talk about your inspirations there at all?
22:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Because you know, back then, when we used to have the Helfayagala from Tacoa, I used to do some fun art.
22:15
[SPEAKER_00]: And I used to usually pick more looks, because I think they deserve to be there.
22:20
[SPEAKER_00]: I can help reach out a lot of the more looks.
22:23
[SPEAKER_00]: So I said it to create this whole glamour look for her.
22:26
[SPEAKER_00]: I think she's very glamorous.
22:28
[SPEAKER_00]: I love her in the west, she's mysterious and glamorous.
22:30
[SPEAKER_00]: So I wanted to give her this very over-the-top in terms of volume.
22:35
[SPEAKER_00]: I always tried to pick elements from the original look and turn them into something new and something huge.
22:41
[SPEAKER_00]: And glamour, so that was my take more or less to what I tried to do with her and the other more looks in terms of the gala, the Krakwaa, Khilfaya gala.
22:49
[SPEAKER_00]: She's fabulous.
22:50
[SPEAKER_04]: It's giving very, like, project runway, like the category is, like, street chic.
22:57
[SPEAKER_04]: But you have to use only items you found in the trash outside of the trip store, like, it's Phantom Bar.
23:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Bar and Deep.
23:03
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
23:04
[SPEAKER_04]: Bar and Deep.
23:07
[SPEAKER_04]: And then, Erica, do you want to tell us about beautiful dreamers' powers?
23:10
[SPEAKER_04]: They work kind of in an odd way, but the visual on her is stunning.
23:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, basically, in,
23:16
[SPEAKER_01]: In the OG Beautiful Dreamer, she had this figure out usually in like one of the figure out holders and so she would have that and she would blow the smoke at you and as she blew the smoke at you it would then whatever she felt she wanted you to see feel experience she would basically be manipulating your reality.
23:38
[SPEAKER_01]: And it wouldn't be physically happening to you, but you would be so in your own head that you would feel that this was all real.
23:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Unfortunately, we can't have smoking any more in comics.
23:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And when we weren't when Jada and I were working on issue number seven,
23:55
[SPEAKER_01]: they said that we can't have her smoke, so that idea of her power being linked to the cigarette couldn't happen, so we have to think of something else, so we have the smoke sort of coming off of her fingertip, kind of like the motion of smoking, you know, but the smoke is coming off of her fingertip, those opposed to her blowing the smoke from the cigarette.
24:17
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I almost love the cigarette's just the tool, like the smoke comes from her.
24:22
[SPEAKER_04]: That's that's fun for me.
24:24
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
24:24
[SPEAKER_04]: Now I want to talk about the variants for this character very quickly.
24:27
[SPEAKER_04]: We'll do this all in one.
24:28
[SPEAKER_04]: There's there's three variants on this character that I'm aware of and that's all.
24:32
[SPEAKER_04]: One of them is in a weird all ages book called Marvel Age Spider-Man team up where they run into the more locks in this book and there's a version of Dreamer but it's like
24:43
[SPEAKER_04]: Like a 17-year-old girl with short red hair who has similar powers for those of you that have seen the show The Gifted There's a character named Dreamer in that show.
24:53
[SPEAKER_04]: This is live action.
24:54
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, her real name is Sonya Simonson.
24:56
[SPEAKER_04]: She is played by Alina Satin.
25:00
[SPEAKER_04]: And she has this kind of memory reading, memory implantation, memory erasure through like smoke powers.
25:07
[SPEAKER_04]: But she gets killed in an early episode.
25:09
[SPEAKER_04]: I think she's in 10 episodes of the show.
25:11
[SPEAKER_04]: And then the last one we see is, if you guys remember, the manites, this is deep nerd Marvel lore.
25:18
[SPEAKER_04]: The manites were in like the late 90s of the X-Men.
25:21
[SPEAKER_04]: They're like weird, super-powered kids.
25:23
[SPEAKER_04]: And this is not the same character, but there's a little creepy pink baby with purple eyes named Beautiful Dreamer as well.
25:30
[SPEAKER_04]: Those are the variants for this character.
25:32
[SPEAKER_04]: Beautiful Dreamer does not have a lot of content that is specific to her.
25:36
[SPEAKER_04]: She's usually in the background,
25:40
[SPEAKER_04]: So I'm going to let Patricia talk about her key moments in her first appearance in PowerPack and then in Uncanny X-Men 195.
25:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Actually, it's like a one-issue both issues are the same story.
25:52
[SPEAKER_00]: So they use beautiful dreamer to try to change the kid's minds in order to keep them with Analee, because Analee just loves her children in PowerPack.
26:02
[SPEAKER_00]: But actually next month, they were killed by Greg Crow, the member of the Moral Moralers.
26:07
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, she saw a lot of boyfriend Grey Crow gunned down some kids and these were like the ones that the the bag lady with the memory powers like adopted and so she's grieving obviously and now she really wants to rewrite the memories of the power pack kids to be her own children.
26:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't I never get why people like to redeem Grey Crow.
26:25
[SPEAKER_00]: She's a child killer.
26:27
[SPEAKER_00]: I I can't stand that.
26:28
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry.
26:29
[SPEAKER_00]: I have to say because I have so many discussions about Grey Crow and I can help thinking about it.
26:34
[SPEAKER_00]: He killed so many children during the New Damascus.
26:38
[SPEAKER_04]: Also, he also shot metal in prior in the head one time.
26:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he did.
26:42
[SPEAKER_00]: He's a horrible, horrible guy.
26:44
[SPEAKER_00]: I hate it.
26:46
[SPEAKER_00]: But actually, well, she's grieving.
26:47
[SPEAKER_00]: She's very sad.
26:48
[SPEAKER_00]: And her powers are affecting the whole moral community.
26:51
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why they keep her near leech because they need to...
26:55
[SPEAKER_00]: neutralize their powers together because they, the more looks can stand for a little lich, they hate him because he's, his powers turn off all the mutants, all the more looks powers too.
27:07
[SPEAKER_00]: So they're trying to keep up the power by kids in power pack.
27:12
[SPEAKER_00]: That's when we get introduced to a beautiful dreamer.
27:16
[SPEAKER_00]: She's very shy, she's very gorgeous, she's very like,
27:18
[SPEAKER_00]: not very extra actually she have second thoughts about using her powers because she knows that this against her little old because now the you know that the the the the tribally there's not Calisto anymore is storm it's forbidden to attack any people from the surface but they feel so sad about what's going on with an elite that they go on with the plan and they try to connect the kids
27:47
[SPEAKER_00]: which is very weird.
27:49
[SPEAKER_00]: I never understood if they decided to change kitties costume because powerpad was for children so they wanted to give her bright colors to showcase her in the book but I love that orange costume that she never ever used again ever in her life.
28:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Kroller and Kiryan are in the tunnel, so they realize that something is strange going on with the more looks and those kids, because they already told them that analytic kids are at that, so they said, so what's going away?
28:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Why are these kids with the more looks?
28:20
[SPEAKER_00]: And so they go and they find out that they're actually they're trying to keep up power pack.
28:26
[SPEAKER_00]: They stop them.
28:27
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's what happens in power pack,
28:31
[SPEAKER_00]: The drained dealers had enough, but they decided to keep on kidnapping the boat back.
28:38
[SPEAKER_04]: There's like a faction of the more locks called the Indwellers that kind of live apart from the others.
28:43
[SPEAKER_04]: This is the characters like Berserker and Scaleface and yeah, well, they're worthy of their own episode sometime.
28:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they have these factions between the Marloughs, they have the tunerers, the tunerers, which are more aggressive, which are Berserks, Kailface, Mask, there's not one on them.
29:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Those are the ones who are the tanninars, and then we have a hilarious name for it.
29:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
29:08
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to do a whole episode about James, I'm going to tell you.
29:14
[SPEAKER_00]: What were they thinking?
29:17
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we have the other Marlux, which are the more like, you know, these ones, which are, I don't know, they hate each other.
29:25
[SPEAKER_00]: I actually, the tonnagers can't stand this team.
29:28
[SPEAKER_00]: They think they are very pathetic and they don't like them.
29:30
[SPEAKER_00]: So, they fail to kill up the kids and I actually, you thought that everything was over, but then you have to go to uncanny X-Men and then you find out that they,
29:40
[SPEAKER_00]: did something horrible to the power pack family and to the powers which are Luis Simonson and Walter Simonson and they were based on them.
29:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Actually I think the the power pack's parents were based on them.
29:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Then you moved to Ankani X-Men and you found out that the kids wake up in their parents' beds and actually their parents do not know who they are because their minds have been wiped by our beautiful dreamer.
30:03
[SPEAKER_00]: So there the kids run out to the streets.
30:06
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know why they're right now to the streets.
30:08
[SPEAKER_00]: That's something kids you have to be smarter.
30:11
[SPEAKER_00]: They're just like it's just live on the streets in the middle of the night in Manhattan.
30:15
[SPEAKER_00]: That's in the 80s.
30:16
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like what's going on?
30:18
[SPEAKER_01]: This could be a lot of smarter things.
30:22
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, this could be a horror comic, but I almost want to read it more like an episode of the golden girls like beautiful dream And they are best buds, and they're just gonna get some kids, you know, it's fine Oh, because actually the power park kids they have many friends.
30:38
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm on the superhero communities They come super hero communities, so they could call them all or reach them in in sort of way But they decided to sleep on the meal of treating an ally.
30:47
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like kids you need to think
30:50
[SPEAKER_00]: carefully before you take these decisions, especially the older ones.
30:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I get, I mean, Julie is solely like, what a whole sheet, five or five years.
30:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like, life, it's crazy.
31:00
[SPEAKER_00]: She's almost a toddler.
31:01
[SPEAKER_00]: She's so young.
31:02
[SPEAKER_00]: But the other ones, I mean, they are 13, 11, how old are they?
31:06
[SPEAKER_04]: And yeah, they're not exactly the most responsible of all of the, they're like 11, 9, 7 and 5 or something and it aren't back then it's very sweet and I've interviewed June Brighman.
31:18
[SPEAKER_04]: I would love to interview Louis Simon said it's one of my top dream interviews actually, but there's a lot of images of like the kids walking around and just like underwear.
31:26
[SPEAKER_04]: Like the little girls like have no shirts on and they're just like hanging out in the bathtub with your like, oh, this is a different time.
31:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, I love June's art.
31:35
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to say something else.
31:36
[SPEAKER_00]: I really like about beautiful dreamer is that she was created but two female uh, comic book artists and in her first appearance we have three female comic book artists in that book.
31:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Without Glynne's Oliver, June Breakman and uh, Louis Simonson, which is I think is amazing.
31:53
[SPEAKER_00]: If you think about the artist, I mean, it's incredible to have three creator, two powerhouse, three powerhouse creators
32:01
[SPEAKER_00]: I was so amazed by that when I was younger.
32:04
[SPEAKER_00]: When I was a kid, I said, these are three women working together, creating a comic book, a superhero comic book.
32:09
[SPEAKER_00]: This is so unique and so special to me, because back then for me, comic books were done by men and just by men.
32:18
[SPEAKER_00]: And when I found out that these are work three women working in a comic book, I say, this is you.
32:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Nick and I never seen this before in my life.
32:25
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, for me was like, I don't know, it's fantastic.
32:29
[SPEAKER_04]: And June's fantastic.
32:30
[SPEAKER_04]: June's not your typical comic book artist as well.
32:33
[SPEAKER_04]: I really enjoy her pencils.
32:34
[SPEAKER_04]: I think she's phenomenal.
32:35
[SPEAKER_00]: So delicate.
32:36
[SPEAKER_00]: So she has this finesse in terms of how she draw so organic.
32:41
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know, it's so in a way lighting up it in a nice way like everything like flows when she draw I love her work.
32:48
[SPEAKER_04]: There's a running gag about how any time a baby shows up in a comic book, it just looks like an old terrible, like nobody draws babies well, but June Brighman draws kids really well.
32:58
[SPEAKER_04]: They look like children.
32:59
[SPEAKER_04]: It's amazing.
33:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, if you, well, let's say that the park has to depart.
33:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Parapak kids have to deal with mask during the uncanny issues, so their faces are changed.
33:09
[SPEAKER_00]: But if you compare what's going on on uncanny x-men and what's going on on parapak concerns on how they are drawn.
33:16
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you can actually tell how, how, how it was for a dramatic, romantic junior to do the kids, as young kids, and not these sort of small people.
33:26
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, it was very bizarre.
33:29
[SPEAKER_00]: And actually, PowerPy has this amazing list of artists.
33:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I know, I'm saying this, okay, English, Jambal Gano, was strong.
33:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
33:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, Gano, both of them are amazing doing kids, both of them.
33:42
[SPEAKER_00]: So PowerPy, luckily, PowerGuy, PowerPy has these two artists on the book.
33:47
[SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, if you look at the PowerPy issues from Gano, you can tell that he uses references from his own son to create Franklin Richards, to draw Franklin Richards.
33:57
[SPEAKER_00]: So the face is so incredible.
33:58
[SPEAKER_00]: There are kids.
33:59
[SPEAKER_00]: You are actually looking at kids in the book, which I think is amazing.
34:03
[SPEAKER_04]: Speaking of Franklin Richards, I did a whole Franklin Richards episode, which means I've read his whole history, and my best friend Seth Martell, every time I would come across an image of like baby Franklin Richards, I would text it to him and he's like,
34:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, sorry.
34:30
[SPEAKER_00]: So the kids are, are king up again.
34:33
[SPEAKER_00]: They went to the tunnels to look for the more looks because the real did realize that actually their parents have been parents, minds, have been manipulated by a beautiful dreamer.
34:42
[SPEAKER_00]: So they say to go back to the tunnels, but idea gets and the more looks are waiting for them.
34:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Actually a beautiful dreamer doesn't have much of a big match.
34:52
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, she's very important to the in terms of the plot, but she doesn't appear that match in the issue until the end.
34:59
[SPEAKER_00]: So what we will end up happening is that Julie, Julie, Manji's to skate from the tunnels, but her face is shaped by a mask and she's, I think there's a policeman that finds her in the real street and she uses her powers on the policeman,
35:18
[SPEAKER_00]: To by the police and she's I mean, I think that she's on the on the TV on on the news and Kirill prize preparing breakfast in the morning And she said oh, I know that's this girl this guy is not a mute and she's Julie powers from the power pack So she decides to to rescue her from I think she's not hospital.
35:36
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure she decides to create this small group of excellent to rescue Julie
35:40
[SPEAKER_00]: from the hospital and she has Rachel Summers, Rogue and Wolverine.
35:46
[SPEAKER_04]: I think that Kitty is also someone who as a teen, a young teen was kidnapped by the more locks.
35:51
[SPEAKER_04]: And she threatened to force her to marry Caleb in that one time.
35:54
[SPEAKER_04]: So, you know, she understands what's happening.
35:56
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, she says, oh, say moong.
36:01
[SPEAKER_00]: handle this.
36:02
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't what's going on here.
36:04
[SPEAKER_00]: I love the more looks, but as so, they're so problematic.
36:08
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, why the keep notting young kids?
36:11
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, what's going on kids?
36:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Come on, stop.
36:13
[SPEAKER_00]: So, she decides to create this small group of, of X-Men.
36:17
[SPEAKER_00]: I love this X-Men.
36:18
[SPEAKER_00]: I love this team.
36:19
[SPEAKER_00]: I love Rachel Summers.
36:20
[SPEAKER_00]: She's one of my third X.
36:21
[SPEAKER_00]: favorite X-Men.
36:22
[SPEAKER_00]: I love that she's wearing leggings and I love that 80's outfit.
36:28
[SPEAKER_00]: I love warmers and stuff like that.
36:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I love I love the look.
36:32
[SPEAKER_00]: So she.
36:33
[SPEAKER_00]: She's Yeah, she's exactly fascinant.
36:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
36:38
[SPEAKER_00]: She looks amazing.
36:40
[SPEAKER_00]: And Wolverine decides to, to, to, she, Wolverine decides that Kiiri is going to be the X-Men leader for this mission.
36:48
[SPEAKER_00]: So the 15 years old kid from the team now is the leader of the team.
36:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Because Wolverine has this amazing idea so the saddened that make no sense.
36:56
[SPEAKER_00]: So Kiiri now is leading the team to the more maternal where she was kidnapped a few months ago.
37:02
[SPEAKER_00]: So everything is very, you know, nice for her.
37:05
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, I also envision of like, Kiddish has been nagging him like, oh my god, when do I get a lead in mission?
37:09
[SPEAKER_04]: When do I get a lead in mission?
37:10
[SPEAKER_04]: He's like, buy it.
37:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Here you go, kid.
37:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Here we go.
37:12
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a mission.
37:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Your trauma.
37:15
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the lead mission.
37:16
[SPEAKER_01]: We live your trauma, exactly.
37:18
[SPEAKER_00]: You're your trauma, girl.
37:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Here, you will prove your, if you're ready or not for the mission.
37:24
[SPEAKER_00]: So, they go back to the Marlottanos searching for the power cut, power back kids.
37:29
[SPEAKER_00]: And the thing is, beautiful dreamer decided to.
37:32
[SPEAKER_00]: He raised their minds and created new personalities for the kids and they believe they are analysts children now and they're looking like tiny more looks with their own punk clothing and a lot of bells and chains and stuff like that which I think it was very weird.
37:47
[SPEAKER_00]: It was hilarious when I thought when I saw that I love the looks.
37:51
[SPEAKER_00]: I love I mean
37:52
[SPEAKER_00]: In terms of fashion, the more looks are the coolest.
37:55
[SPEAKER_00]: I love how the more looks look.
37:57
[SPEAKER_00]: And actually, the more looks influence the X-Men, the 80s.
38:01
[SPEAKER_00]: And they start dressing like the more looks after they make them.
38:04
[SPEAKER_00]: It's very like what's going on in queer culture, where these very famous queer people meet other people from other subcultures and they pick different things from the style and music and art.
38:14
[SPEAKER_00]: And they make them all that mainstream.
38:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think it's very similar what's going on here.
38:18
[SPEAKER_00]: They started to face the more looks,
38:21
[SPEAKER_00]: this whole confusion because most of the more looks think that those are actually more look kits and not the power and not power pack.
38:28
[SPEAKER_00]: So they think they think that the X man and try to get their own kits.
38:32
[SPEAKER_00]: This whole thing becomes like too violent, but because all the sudden Wolverine decides to use claws to fight the more looks, which I think is very like, what are you doing?
38:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Why are you fighting the more looks with your own
38:47
[SPEAKER_00]: too much tension.
38:48
[SPEAKER_00]: You are so dangerous and so lethal.
38:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Why are you trying to kill these people?
38:53
[SPEAKER_00]: They stay fight and all the Southern Calisto decided to show up and say what is going on here?
38:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Kids behave.
39:01
[SPEAKER_00]: What's going on?
39:02
[SPEAKER_00]: She tells beautiful dream and to restore their power.
39:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Poor Pat keeps minds and to get rid of all the furniture that the more looks have stolen from the poor But family is very sad actually because Anna Lee gets so so sad and she asks at least to to do a trial by combat So she can die and be with her to her children and I that broke my heart I really like this issue.
39:27
[SPEAKER_00]: I really like this area.
39:28
[SPEAKER_04]: It's fantastic.
39:29
[SPEAKER_00]: It's fantastic.
39:30
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean I
39:30
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm talking, I'm telling, and I'm writing the whole thing laughing at all, but when I write this issue, it was so hard-breaking for me because I could tell how much in pain and Ali was of the loss of her children and how hard it was for her to be alive after what happened to her family.
39:48
[SPEAKER_00]: The way she asked Cal to let's go to try to come, but I want to tell you, I don't want to leave in a word when I don't have my children.
39:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my God.
39:55
[SPEAKER_00]: That was so hard, so hard, but I really like this, I really enjoyed it.
40:00
[SPEAKER_00]: And actually, it was so cute how Julie decided to forgive Anali and to say, I can be a Julie if you need me, I can be with you if you need me.
40:09
[SPEAKER_00]: She's so sweet.
40:11
[SPEAKER_00]: The Garry Souls 3 and Karimun has this thing with dialogues which is amazing.
40:15
[SPEAKER_00]: So I really enjoyed the issue.
40:17
[SPEAKER_00]: I really like reading in the issue too.
40:19
[SPEAKER_00]: I love her.
40:20
[SPEAKER_00]: She's one of my favorite X1 2.
40:22
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know why Rachel all the sudden disappears in the middle of the issue and she'll ups in the end.
40:27
[SPEAKER_00]: I was hoping to see more of her.
40:30
[SPEAKER_00]: I think they have to do with her not being enabled to use her side powers.
40:35
[SPEAKER_00]: in the tunnels because they have all these legamental blocks and stuff like they're going on because of the old and mental powers they have them or looks like that's it.
40:44
[SPEAKER_04]: Before we jump to the next big story, I want to talk about the backstory of the more likes for just a moment.
40:50
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, first of all, if we are casting the more locks as a Golden Girls episode, we get Analy as Sophia, I think we get Calisto's Dorothy, I think we get Caliban as Rose and then beautiful dreamer as of course, Blanche, right?
41:04
[SPEAKER_04]: You get the opening credits and there's a whole thing which is really fun.
41:08
[SPEAKER_04]: We also do like the, we support women's wrongs, we support like beat, beat, beat gay do crimes kind of era.
41:14
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm kind of wondering, we don't know the backstory for a lot of these characters, but I'm kind of wondering if the more looks as a society, it's never been stated on the page directly.
41:23
[SPEAKER_04]: But if they realize something is wrong, like we need a light source, we need someone who can protect us, we need someone to like, do they kidnap mutants from the surface?
41:34
[SPEAKER_04]: And beautiful dreamer, like calabin tracks them down and beautiful dreamer rewrites their memories and mask like reshapes their flesh and it's their way of keeping their society bolstered up.
41:44
[SPEAKER_04]: There's a more looks as villains spin here than I think is really interesting.
41:48
[SPEAKER_04]: and you kind of wonder who doesn't know.
41:50
[SPEAKER_04]: We don't know anything about beautiful dreamers origins, but just consider that.
41:55
[SPEAKER_04]: So right after this, we have the more luck massacre, and we have a sinister who we don't really have fleshed out at this point, hiring the marauders who is an incredible team of diverse assassins.
42:06
[SPEAKER_04]: They're all fantastic, even though they're horrible, horrible people, going into wipeout the more locks.
42:11
[SPEAKER_04]: And we don't really know why.
42:13
[SPEAKER_04]: It's almost giving kind of,
42:16
[SPEAKER_04]: like let's go wipe out the undesirables like slaughter everyone later writers will retcon putting beast from the age of apocalypse uh who like came over to our world 20 years ago and he's somehow had a hand in the more lock formation
42:34
[SPEAKER_04]: And she will be an evil beast, dark beast.
42:37
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and sugar man somehow had a formation in genosha and you almost wonder if like sinister is sending the marauders into like get dark beast back anyway The more lock massacre happens do the do the two of you have a favorite marauder
42:52
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm really pissed.
42:54
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm really, I mean, they're, oh, they all suck, but they're all amazing.
42:56
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm really partial to scramble her.
42:58
[SPEAKER_04]: His powers are just so weird.
43:00
[SPEAKER_04]: But I just, I want to play with him all the time.
43:02
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, I want to, I want to dish it with his powers all the time.
43:05
[SPEAKER_00]: I, I do enjoy visually the marauders.
43:08
[SPEAKER_00]: I love that they only have one shoulder, like,
43:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Hold in his eyes.
43:11
[SPEAKER_00]: I like asymmetrical.
43:13
[SPEAKER_00]: I love that in terms of fashion sense.
43:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Look, we look cool, but we're going to beat jerks.
43:18
[SPEAKER_04]: My best thing is that really loves a vertigo.
43:20
[SPEAKER_04]: Like that's his favorite favorite.
43:22
[SPEAKER_04]: I like reptile.
43:23
[SPEAKER_04]: Rippedine.
43:24
[SPEAKER_04]: Interesting.
43:25
[SPEAKER_04]: It's really never favorite.
43:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Honestly, I don't think I do.
43:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I think, honestly, I genuinely, I get the whole thing with their sort of asymmetrical fashion, but I just, I never really wanted to get into the marauders, just because I always felt like I don't ever want to have to be in a situation where I have to feel any type of sympathy for them, because I think they're horrible.
43:50
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, you're horrible.
43:51
[SPEAKER_04]: Your redness, Laura, can you say avertooth coming up?
43:53
[SPEAKER_04]: So you can pick savertooth as your favorite marauder.
43:56
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
43:58
[SPEAKER_04]: So we're going to keep this focused on a beautiful dreamer.
44:00
[SPEAKER_04]: In the X-Factor number 10, power pack number 27 crossover, the more luck massacres there, so many people die, but erg, ERG, and beautiful dreamer get saved by X-Factor.
44:10
[SPEAKER_04]: So we jumped to X-Factor 12, and all of the rescued more locks have been brought aboard X-Factor's ship, which is the sentient, you know, a celestial apocalyptic ship, and they brought too many people there.
44:22
[SPEAKER_04]: There's a big cast at this point.
44:24
[SPEAKER_04]: And in X-Factor 15, we see them in a couple of issues like having a meal, and then the more likes go back to the tunnels.
44:30
[SPEAKER_04]: And that's the last we see beautiful dreamer for like 15 years.
44:34
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like a really long time before she shows up again.
44:36
[SPEAKER_04]: Do I have any thoughts on the more like massacre that you wanna share?
44:39
[SPEAKER_04]: This is a deeply impactful story, obviously.
44:42
[SPEAKER_04]: Analy gets killed.
44:43
[SPEAKER_04]: A ton of characters are killed.
44:45
[SPEAKER_04]: Beautiful, beautiful dreamer survives.
44:47
[SPEAKER_04]: And we don't get any perspective from her voice.
44:49
[SPEAKER_04]: There's not a single line of dialogue.
44:50
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't think, given from this character's mouth,
44:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Cybellic Hills, too.
44:55
[SPEAKER_04]: Cybell?
44:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, who you got to know.
44:57
[SPEAKER_00]: So I will.
44:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I love Cybell look.
44:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Look, she looks amazing.
45:01
[SPEAKER_00]: And I have a look.
45:02
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's very strange.
45:04
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm funny that when she gets injured, a beautiful dreamer is eight times into a bed.
45:10
[SPEAKER_00]: And she's like carrying her to the factor of her quarters in a bed.
45:15
[SPEAKER_00]: So she's a beautiful dreamer in all the sense.
45:18
[SPEAKER_00]: It's very like...
45:18
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know if I realize that from the art, that's a really good pick-up.
45:23
[SPEAKER_00]: It's from the power-puck issue.
45:24
[SPEAKER_00]: She's in a bad, an AP sub-ed, anything is so like, I don't know, it was a purpose or not, but I thought it was amazing in terms of creating a narrative to pull a character.
45:33
[SPEAKER_00]: I actually feel that the Mujimusaker, it's very like how...
45:39
[SPEAKER_00]: like a very important moment in terms of what's going on in the X-Men and what's going on in the Marvel Universe.
45:48
[SPEAKER_00]: When I was a kid, I was so shocked by the Mutant Massacre, it was so like I'm at least that was shocking to me.
45:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I was it was very like I I never seen something like that in a comic book and to see all the more looks being slaughtered in that way it was so heartbreaking and so like I don't know.
46:04
[SPEAKER_00]: think is important in terms of what happened to the X-Men and to the comic industry after the meter massacre, in terms of the summary events.
46:14
[SPEAKER_00]: I think meter massacre many ways is the end of the bronze age of comics, in terms of the innocence, in terms of what superheroes are,
46:22
[SPEAKER_00]: in terms of the John's High X man, it's the end of that, and I think it's very like very important.
46:28
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's iconic.
46:30
[SPEAKER_04]: And again, Powerpack was a comic about kids for kids by women, and we see like these little kids reckoning with death, right?
46:38
[SPEAKER_04]: There's like in Powerpack 27, there's a moment where the little kids come across like Analy's corpse, and they're like, oh, sorry, Leach, your new mommy is dead, and they're like trying to help them out.
46:46
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, it's pretty, it's pretty rough in some ways.
46:49
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like a fixed point in time, you know what I mean?
46:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Like they can't wreck on it because it made so many things.
46:56
[SPEAKER_01]: It influenced so many things, like the way Gambit is treated after this.
47:01
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, then dropping it, I dropped them off in the Arctic, you know, kind of thing.
47:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Like because for, you know, you had, you had the slightest handed in this gambit.
47:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, you know,
47:12
[SPEAKER_01]: your dead to us kind of nothing.
47:14
[SPEAKER_01]: It was interesting where when Crocoa happened and they were basically like really like a resurrecting everybody.
47:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Some of the people who were massacred like sidebell had a real chip on their shoulder because they were left to be killed.
47:32
[SPEAKER_01]: There was no one there who to try and help them.
47:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Like
47:35
[SPEAKER_01]: you'll owe X men your heroes where the hell aren't you your heroes for mutants where the hell aren't you oh you're heroes for the pretty means oh now okay yeah now i get it you're you're here so the means to the past it's a powerful version like days of future past because we're seeing it right on the page right like when we unleash look at the victims that are heard this is who the X men are there to protect you know in a lot of ways
47:58
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, jumping forward to M-Day.
47:59
[SPEAKER_04]: Scarlet Witch does no more mutants.
48:01
[SPEAKER_04]: There's 198 mutants left, and beautiful dreamers one of them.
48:04
[SPEAKER_04]: She's one of the last surviving mutants on the planet.
48:07
[SPEAKER_04]: So we see her move to the grounds of the Exadear state where they do the mutant in-campment under the guard of sentinels, like Fuckveller Cooper for that specifically.
48:16
[SPEAKER_04]: The Office of National Emergency.
48:18
[SPEAKER_04]: like let's put the the the the the biggest incentives to watch over the rest of the mutants.
48:23
[SPEAKER_04]: She doesn't really show up much.
48:25
[SPEAKER_04]: There's a big story in this the limited series, X-Men the 198, where Mr. M is doing some crazy stuff.
48:30
[SPEAKER_04]: But after this, where the books start to expand, we get the mercenary X-Force title, and this is the biggest beautiful dreamer story until Erica's most recent one.
48:39
[SPEAKER_04]: In X-Force volume 3 number 12,
48:41
[SPEAKER_04]: A group of the worst criminals ever, the biggest bigots have been reanimated by the Transmode virus under the control of Bastion.
48:49
[SPEAKER_04]: And they're being sent out on little missions, trying to build to a place where all the remaining mutants in the world are going to be exterminated, and no one else will ever be born.
48:58
[SPEAKER_04]: So Graydon Creed is back in charge of the Friends of Humanity, and they're holding a public rally for the bigots who would go to a, you know, the Friends of Humanity rally.
49:07
[SPEAKER_04]: in Ames, Iowa.
49:08
[SPEAKER_04]: At the rally, beautiful dreamer has been captured by the leper queen, the leader of the safety and league, it's this whole thing, and they've basically injected her with the virus that she can't control.
49:20
[SPEAKER_04]: They sent her running in, she's in her gorgeous pink slip of
49:25
[SPEAKER_04]: It's the most visual we really ever get from her because her face is uncovered and she's glowing pink.
49:30
[SPEAKER_04]: I was reading the books at the time and I was so excited to see them using her and then they did this.
49:35
[SPEAKER_04]: Which again is a powerful story telling but fuck.
49:37
[SPEAKER_04]: So she's glowing pink, she's in her hat and her little slinky dress and she's infecting everyone around her with psychic energy.
49:43
[SPEAKER_04]: And this is the most words I think she's ever spoken on the page until her, again, until Erica wrote her.
49:48
[SPEAKER_04]: Please help me.
49:49
[SPEAKER_04]: Help me.
49:49
[SPEAKER_04]: It's inside me.
49:50
[SPEAKER_04]: Please.
49:51
[SPEAKER_04]: Please.
49:51
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't want to die.
49:52
[SPEAKER_04]: And then she blows up.
49:54
[SPEAKER_04]: And the psychic energy that emanates from her body, because it's been weaponized, kills 1100 people in the area.
50:01
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's another opportunity for the bigots to be like, look how dangerous students are.
50:06
[SPEAKER_04]: Rough story.
50:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I mean, this idea of the front of humanity or humanity first or who never used things a mutant's power against their will to then justify their bigotry.
50:19
[SPEAKER_01]: That is not new.
50:20
[SPEAKER_01]: That is a fact that is, you know, kind of a familiar trope in a lot of ex-bub.
50:27
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, turning around and saying meetings are horrible, look at somebody like Wolverine, you know, look with all the damage that he's done, you know, of course all meetings are horrible and it's just painting with a broad brush.
50:39
[SPEAKER_01]: The fact that beautiful dreamer dies in such like a dramatic way of like blowing up, basically being an incendiary device, I mean that that is so
50:56
[SPEAKER_01]: very delicate, you know, I mean, because not only the way she dressed, but she was a very innocent then, she was, you know, very, very petite, very slight, very delicate.
51:06
[SPEAKER_01]: and yet here she is extending this energy in such a a bombastic way, do you know what I mean?
51:13
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, there's a there's a high body count in this era of comics.
51:16
[SPEAKER_04]: This is back when I was writing the handbooks.
51:18
[SPEAKER_04]: The what the image more even more than this that lives in my brain, they created those big monsters, the predators X, those big like some looking monsters.
51:25
[SPEAKER_04]: And there's one way that little character, I have a whole episode on peepers.
51:28
[SPEAKER_04]: I fucking love Peter Quinn peepers, one of my favorites.
51:31
[SPEAKER_04]: There's an episode where Predator X like eats peepers and spits out of just skeleton, and it gave me imagery of like, well, we don't need to talk about it, but more like fascism and what they did to disabled people, like I've really hated it like, yeah, no, I mean, it's playable characters and they can get killed and that's what the story is meant to do, but no, no, no, I hate it a lot.
51:49
[SPEAKER_04]: Put your CEO, any thoughts on a beautiful dreamers death?
51:51
[SPEAKER_00]: I was so mad when I read this book because I wish they would give her some more lines and a story.
51:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this could be her end, but I wish they would give her a moment to shine before they just care about her at least.
52:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, because I care about her because I love caring about these characters that nobody cares about.
52:09
[SPEAKER_00]: But give her some lines, give her some, I don't know, at some spot like show me who she is.
52:18
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry, I'm being so literal, that's the way they are using her.
52:24
[SPEAKER_04]: We care about our characters, folks.
52:26
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, so we X-Men Legends 11, which is the anthology title during Krakowat.
52:30
[SPEAKER_04]: We get a flashback to the time when the horsemen apocalypse were harassing the more locks and X-Factor saves them.
52:36
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a very quick appearance, beautiful dreamer doesn't have much to do.
52:39
[SPEAKER_04]: Then we get Steve Fox's Dark X-Men, where we see a lot of different side stories going on.
52:44
[SPEAKER_04]: And beautiful dreamer has moved on to a ship full of more locks.
52:48
[SPEAKER_04]: And the more locks have some interesting playtime in the X-Men red, but this is the only time we see beautiful dreamer during cricoa.
52:54
[SPEAKER_04]: The, uh, the, uh, the, uh,
52:55
[SPEAKER_04]: Angel has been weaponized.
52:57
[SPEAKER_04]: Archangel Warren Worthington has been weaponized and sent to slaughter the morlocks.
53:01
[SPEAKER_04]: And several characters do really horribly die.
53:03
[SPEAKER_04]: She does survive in the X-Men jump into save them.
53:06
[SPEAKER_04]: And then Cricula falls.
53:08
[SPEAKER_04]: So that's all we get of beautiful dreamer up to this point.
53:10
[SPEAKER_04]: She hasn't even had a lot of words on the page, but she has an impact every little minor character has an impact.
53:16
[SPEAKER_04]: Now we jump to Laura Kinney Wolverine, which is Erica Schultz's opus on this incredible character who grew up as a child soldier against her will, who's been turned into a weapon, who's reclaiming her life.
53:28
[SPEAKER_04]: Erica, if I can just say out loud, I appreciate you and Jed specifically for making Krakowas still feel resonant.
53:36
[SPEAKER_04]: There's a lot of writers who will use lines of dialogue on occasion.
53:39
[SPEAKER_04]: But you and Jed McCay and your books remind us continuously that Cracoa being gone is something that we need to grieve because it's really sad at the world's sucks.
53:48
[SPEAKER_04]: And Laura's trying to help the people who need help.
53:51
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you want to tell everybody a little bit about your sidebell story, which is lovely, of course.
53:55
[SPEAKER_04]: And then tell us about your beautiful dreamer story, which gives us the Bedoon.
53:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Story with Sibel is an issue number one of more cable green.
54:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I've wrote it, a Jadabobiso, Druid, and Rachel Rosenberg colored it.
54:08
[SPEAKER_01]: And basically, Sibel's attitude is similar to what she said.
54:15
[SPEAKER_01]: how she when she first was resurrected for Cricula.
54:18
[SPEAKER_01]: She says she will vereen of course she wouldn't know my name because when Laura sort of bursts in sidebell being the main villain she's like you I've seen you on I saw you on Cricula she says yeah you don't know my name because just like everybody else who got killed in the meat and massacre we were just resurrected so you could it like as a
54:39
[SPEAKER_01]: so we could show, you know, Emma and the rest of them doing these.
54:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Look how wonderful Croco is.
54:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you needed more bodies to make it a place look like it's like it's truly populated.
54:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's why I was arrested.
54:52
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't care that Croco is gone.
54:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm glad Croco is gone.
54:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And from the way that the X-Men have always treated people like me, you can all buff on Google.
55:02
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, just all of you just piss off.
55:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Because,
55:06
[SPEAKER_01]: the way that we've been treated, the way you've left us to be treated.
55:11
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, not just the way that you yourselves have been treated us, but the way you have stood by and watched us literally murdered.
55:19
[SPEAKER_01]: No, screw you, I'm getting mine.
55:21
[SPEAKER_01]: She basically, and Sibel, basically uses her abilities to keep people and keep mutants specifically.
55:31
[SPEAKER_01]: as like human traffickers, she does that because she thinks that mutants, especially the ones that have abilities that can be exploited, she thinks that they deserve to be exploited.
55:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Because what would happen to her?
55:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Look what happened to her family, to the people that she loves, all the X-Men.
55:49
[SPEAKER_01]: all the, you know, Xavier for all of his rhetoric about, you know, humans and mutants and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah
56:09
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and that was at Sybel's attitude.
56:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And then in the beautiful dreamer episode where we have the Dune, the Dune have a very long history of their own class war.
56:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you have the X-Men and the more locks, if you think of that in terms of a class war, and then that
56:28
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the tonalers versus, you know, the other more locks, yeah, they have their own sort of class cast system for lack of a better term.
56:36
[SPEAKER_01]: The Bedoon have that themselves, and there is the lowest cast of this are the ones that are the hybrids, the ones that have been genetically messed with.
56:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And those are the ones that are really just thick and tired of being shit on.
56:50
[SPEAKER_01]: So those are the ones that are like, you know what we're going to do?
56:52
[SPEAKER_01]: We know that we can take different types of DNA.
56:55
[SPEAKER_01]: We've
56:57
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're going to start pulling things.
56:59
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to start yanking people and making sure that we can use their abilities can make our selves better to then go take the flight to the other two cast who forever have been on top.
57:12
[SPEAKER_01]: We're the ones who are actually powerful.
57:14
[SPEAKER_01]: So they take beautiful dreamers.
57:16
[SPEAKER_01]: They take Borough.
57:17
[SPEAKER_01]: They take multiple people from different planets that all have abilities.
57:20
[SPEAKER_01]: that they will incorporate into themselves, incorporate into their bloodlines, to then be able to take the fight to the cast who have consistently been, you know, shitting on them for beyond.
57:34
[SPEAKER_01]: And to really turn the tide of the cast system, complete Kudita and turn everything upside down.
57:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, they want Laura because of her healing abilities.
57:44
[SPEAKER_01]: With her healing abilities, it doesn't matter what the other cast grow with them.
57:47
[SPEAKER_01]: They'll heal, they can keep going,
57:51
[SPEAKER_01]: They would want me to put dreamer because she does have psychological, excuse me, she can manipulate people, they can turn around and take the other cast, wipe their mind and make them think as they were always the slave versus the, you know, the hybrids being that they have a sort of a righteous indignation, they in their minds everything that they're doing is justified just like an elite taking power pack, it's justified in her head.
58:14
[SPEAKER_01]: She needs children, so that's where we grew up, beautiful dreamer, and into, uh, Lord Kenny Wolfery.
58:21
[SPEAKER_04]: Beautiful dreamer seems to try to do this humanely.
58:24
[SPEAKER_04]: She's giving Laura the best version she can of her life, which is giving very 90s sitcom.
58:31
[SPEAKER_04]: Laura, Laura's got her dad, Wolverine, and her little sister, Gabby, and, oh, they have a pet Wolverine.
58:38
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like, it's giving, I don't know, it's like very alpha.
58:42
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you think about a peaceful dreamer has these visions of these little things, these little snippets of what she is told is the American dream.
58:54
[SPEAKER_01]: This is what it makes everybody happy.
58:56
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's what she did's Laura, because in her mind, that's what surface to all there's long.
59:01
[SPEAKER_01]: They want the boyfriend or the fiance, the nice house and the suburbs, that the cheeky little sibling,
59:08
[SPEAKER_01]: The caring father, all of these things, she, that's, that is what she's been indoctrinated to think that surfers wanted.
59:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And Laura says, like, I didn't want a hallmark movie, but that's what beautiful dreamer in her night day as to what the surface really is about, that's what she put Laura into.
59:29
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, there's a thousand things about this character that we don't know.
59:32
[SPEAKER_04]: Her real name, her origin, her motivations largely.
59:35
[SPEAKER_04]: But we do know that she suffered tremendous amounts of loss.
59:39
[SPEAKER_04]: I like her as the criminal, I like her as, I don't know, I like the silent film aspect energy, I like the potential and the visual of her powers, the visuals the most striking.
59:48
[SPEAKER_04]: I like her little found family connection to the early more logs.
59:51
[SPEAKER_04]: There's a lot to play with with her.
59:53
[SPEAKER_04]: and really casting her as either good-ness.
59:55
[SPEAKER_04]: I've done a couple of different ones.
59:57
[SPEAKER_04]: I've done Greta Garbo and I've done Blanche from Golden Girls and both of them were great.
1:00:02
[SPEAKER_04]: for this character, what's missing?
1:00:04
[SPEAKER_04]: What's the thing you need to make this character sing?
1:00:07
[SPEAKER_04]: Like all characters, she really deserves a moment really strongly in the spotlight.
1:00:13
[SPEAKER_04]: I think there's a story about her backstory that could be really, really powerful.
1:00:18
[SPEAKER_04]: I think given the origins of the song that inspire her, there's some sort of significant loss where she's a character that could pass on the streets, but she chose to live in the sewers.
1:00:28
[SPEAKER_04]: and she's escaping that loss.
1:00:30
[SPEAKER_04]: I also love her as a criminal.
1:00:32
[SPEAKER_04]: I think there's some really interesting potential for her if she chose to be a superhero being part of the team.
1:00:38
[SPEAKER_04]: I feel like she and Emma Frost would get along really well if they wanted to.
1:00:41
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, there's some, there's Eric, I'm sorry, I bring up Emma every time you're on my show.
1:00:47
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's okay, it's okay.
1:00:49
[SPEAKER_04]: but I feel like she would fit with a lot of different characters in really interesting ways.
1:00:53
[SPEAKER_04]: What's missing?
1:00:54
[SPEAKER_04]: What do you need?
1:00:55
[SPEAKER_04]: I want to thank Erica for not killing her.
1:00:59
[SPEAKER_00]: I know it's so slow.
1:01:02
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry, but I have to say it.
1:01:04
[SPEAKER_00]: I was so pleased when I read the issue that she was alive after they shoended and she wasn't that horrible place after they shoended.
1:01:12
[SPEAKER_00]: It was so fresh and refreshing to me to read that because they deserved that.
1:01:16
[SPEAKER_00]: These characters deserve these moments, especially
1:01:19
[SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, I love how you treated CVL too, because I think all the more looks have different stories that they need to leave.
1:01:26
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the beautiful dreamer needs to sing.
1:01:29
[SPEAKER_00]: She needs to be a singer.
1:01:31
[SPEAKER_00]: She needs to express herself more.
1:01:33
[SPEAKER_00]: She shy in many ways, but I love, I love, I like to see more her creative expression.
1:01:39
[SPEAKER_00]: I love to see how she is in, when she's not feeling stress or,
1:01:43
[SPEAKER_00]: or feeling sad.
1:01:45
[SPEAKER_00]: I really, I think she has lots of potential.
1:01:47
[SPEAKER_00]: The other day when I was reading all the issues, I was heard with her, not many.
1:01:51
[SPEAKER_00]: I was also watching an interview with James Monsum from Drag Race.
1:01:56
[SPEAKER_00]: I'd love to see James Monsum play beautiful dreamer.
1:01:58
[SPEAKER_00]: And I thought, oh, she will be so amazing as a beautiful dreamer, or like the way she talks and the way she moves and their hands.
1:02:07
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
1:02:08
[SPEAKER_00]: I think,
1:02:11
[SPEAKER_04]: Jinx just put out in the universe that she wants to play Mystique.
1:02:13
[SPEAKER_04]: She's like, I'm calling my agent.
1:02:15
[SPEAKER_04]: I want to play Mystique in the next movie, which is amazing.
1:02:21
[SPEAKER_04]: Uh, you know, I think if Marvel chose to take a risk and do a series about the more locks, even a limited, I think it would be amazing.
1:02:29
[SPEAKER_04]: There was one series one time, but it wasn't the characters that we imprint on with Claremont and Simonson.
1:02:35
[SPEAKER_04]: It was a whole new batch, you know.
1:02:37
[SPEAKER_04]: So I think there's, I think there's some significant potential for these characters.
1:02:41
[SPEAKER_04]: I would love to tell a modern story that we've in their old origins and make beautiful dreamer a huge part of that colisto, of course, is the main character, of course.
1:02:50
[SPEAKER_04]: What's missing for this character?
1:02:52
[SPEAKER_01]: So, when I used to teach comic book writing, I said there are four things to need to know about every character.
1:02:57
[SPEAKER_01]: You need to know what their name is, where they're from, what they're proud of, and what they're afraid of.
1:03:03
[SPEAKER_01]: We only know one thing from beautiful dreamer.
1:03:06
[SPEAKER_01]: We know what she's afraid of.
1:03:08
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't know what she's proud of.
1:03:09
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't know her name, and we don't know where she's from.
1:03:12
[SPEAKER_01]: So there is a lot that can be explored there.
1:03:14
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that in the future, I mean, who knows what'll happen these days?
1:03:19
[SPEAKER_01]: But in the future, it would be a disservice to not just the character, but just to the larger Marvel universe for ignoring not just beautiful dreamer, but a lot of these more locks.
1:03:31
[SPEAKER_01]: because they do bring a lot of richness to this universe.
1:03:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And like Patrice said before, the fact that they've created their own society, they've created their own tribe.
1:03:42
[SPEAKER_01]: It was the word that you would use, Patrice helped.
1:03:44
[SPEAKER_01]: That fact that they have that tribe, I think is so important.
1:03:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that that that embellishing on that would really bring even more richness to what marble has right now.
1:03:56
[SPEAKER_04]: Every time I finished one of these episodes, I want to go write stories about these characters.
1:04:00
[SPEAKER_04]: I really like this character.
1:04:02
[SPEAKER_04]: I've been to associate her with the both of you forever, which makes me smile huge.
1:04:06
[SPEAKER_04]: Where can people find you both online?
1:04:07
[SPEAKER_04]: And anything you'd like to plug for early October 2025?
1:04:11
[SPEAKER_04]: Grimmolkin Lane, please watch for Grimmolkin Under Scoreland on Instagram, where we are consistently putting out regular content.
1:04:17
[SPEAKER_04]: and advertising the current stuff in the show.
1:04:20
[SPEAKER_04]: On the main show in October, we're going to be introducing Sabertooth to the show.
1:04:25
[SPEAKER_04]: So we're going to be having some conversations about Victor Creed.
1:04:29
[SPEAKER_04]: It's the mid-70s, so we get to expand our roster just a little bit.
1:04:32
[SPEAKER_04]: Eric will be joining me for one of those conversations and watch for an episode featuring a Tony Flieks as well, which I'm very excited about.
1:04:38
[SPEAKER_00]: You're a family in Instagram, but just your Oliver, and you can find me on young men in love new romance, the new ontology.
1:04:46
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm there with Dusano Becky on Al-Elwin, and so proud of me in that book.
1:04:53
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, we have custom publishing has just released a new book called My Read, Ball Pirate in this guy's from Notario Spires Graphics.
1:05:00
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's a new book and I'm the illustrator.
1:05:03
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm the comic book artist from the book.
1:05:05
[SPEAKER_00]: So you can find that too on.
1:05:07
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you can find me on Instagram at Erica Phillips, right?
1:05:09
[SPEAKER_01]: you can find me on Lusky, Erica Shulps 42.
1:05:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And if this is October, then you will have Laura Kimmy Saber-Tooth will be in stores, and I will be at New York Comic-Con, a table B-13 in our disparity.
1:05:25
[SPEAKER_04]: Just decided today by the way Eric, I'll see you there.
1:05:28
[SPEAKER_04]: So let's, uh, let's get together.
1:05:30
[SPEAKER_04]: Yay, everybody, it's so good to see you both.
1:05:33
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you, every time I make this show, it just makes the world okay.
1:05:36
[SPEAKER_04]: So I'm so happy to have spent this time with you both.
1:05:38
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you, thank you for your time and talents.
1:05:40
[SPEAKER_04]: Everybody, thanks for listening and your ongoing support.
1:05:42
[SPEAKER_04]: We will see you all back here next time on the Graimalkin Lane Patreon channel.
1:05:46
[SPEAKER_04]: and now stay tuned for some thoughts on fascism as a special guest and I talked about a red skull story and its modern applications.
1:05:56
[SPEAKER_04]: The Smith Act formally known as the Alien Registration Act of 1940 was passed by the United States Congress on June 28, 1940 during a period of global instability as war raged in Europe.
1:06:09
[SPEAKER_04]: The law required non-citizen adults to register with the federal government and be fingerprinted.
1:06:14
[SPEAKER_04]: More controversially, it made it a criminal offense to knowingly advocate a bet or teach the overthrow of the US government by force or by violence or to organize or be a member of any group dedicated to such aims.
1:06:27
[SPEAKER_04]: The legislation reflected rising anxieties about fascist and communist movements abroad in the possibility of subversion at home.
1:06:33
[SPEAKER_04]: In the early years, the act was used primarily against far-right and fascist groups.
1:06:38
[SPEAKER_04]: In 1941, members of the Trotskyist Socialist Workers Party were prosecuted under the law for alleged advocacy of violent revolution.
1:06:47
[SPEAKER_04]: During World War II federal authorities also used the act against individuals suspected of fascist sympathies.
1:06:52
[SPEAKER_04]: However, after the war, enforcement shifted dramatically.
1:06:56
[SPEAKER_04]: As tensions within the Soviet Union intensified, the Smith Act became a central legal tool in the emerging Cold War climate.
1:07:03
[SPEAKER_04]: Beginning in 1948, leaders of the Communist Party USA were indicted and convicted under the Act for conspiring to advocate the violent overthrow of the government.
1:07:12
[SPEAKER_04]: In the landmark 1951 Supreme Court case, Dennis versus the United States, the court upheld these convictions, ruling that the gravity of the potential harm justified restrictions on speech, even if the threat was not immediate.
1:07:26
[SPEAKER_04]: The decision marked a high point in the government's ability to prosecute political speech under national security grounds and contributed to the broader atmosphere of anti-communist suppression associated with the early Cold War.
1:07:38
[SPEAKER_04]: And now we had McCarthyism.
1:07:39
[SPEAKER_04]: By the mid-1950s, however, judicial attitudes began to shift.
1:07:43
[SPEAKER_04]: In Yates vs. the United States, 1957, the Supreme Court significantly narrowed the scope of the Smith Act, distinguishing between abstract advocacy of ideas and direct incitement to action.
1:07:54
[SPEAKER_04]: The ruling made it far more difficult to prosecute individuals simply for the longing to radical political organizations.
1:08:01
[SPEAKER_04]: Over time to Smith Act prosecutions declined and the Lasmos controversial speech-related provisions became largely dormant.
1:08:08
[SPEAKER_04]: The act remains on the books, but its historical significance lies primarily in its role during a period when fears of internal subversion reshaped the boundaries between national security and civil liberties in the United States.
1:08:20
[SPEAKER_04]: And this is also the era of the Japanese internment camps, which we want to talk about today.
1:08:25
[SPEAKER_04]: Now we're going to jump over to the world of X-Men Legacy.
1:08:27
[SPEAKER_04]: This is the size spare Legion series, which later becomes its own television series, based on this book.
1:08:34
[SPEAKER_04]: Issues 10 through 12, we're in the middle of the axis event where the red skull is going crazy and anti-mutant and it has Charles Xavier's brain, but also Legion, who's the son of Charles Xavier and Gabrielle Holler, the Jewish war survivor from the concentration camps.
1:08:52
[SPEAKER_04]: Also has created an evil version of Charles Xavier in his mind because his power is to project personalities.
1:08:59
[SPEAKER_04]: So there's a lot of weird layers going on here.
1:09:01
[SPEAKER_04]: An evil Xavier in his mind that's known colloquially as Professor Y.
1:09:05
[SPEAKER_04]: But he's not a telepath, he's a pre-cog.
1:09:08
[SPEAKER_04]: And he's predicted a deadly future where Legion's capable of genocide and Legion wants to stop that.
1:09:13
[SPEAKER_04]: So in this series, he goes, or in this three-partner, he goes to the Institute of Bio-Social Studies, IBSS.
1:09:19
[SPEAKER_04]: who have developed a painful new cure for the mutant gene.
1:09:23
[SPEAKER_04]: And he meets the director of the program who's a disabled man named Marcus Glove, who turns out to be a puppet of the red skull who, if you recall, has Charles Xavier's brain and is a telepath.
1:09:32
[SPEAKER_04]: So with all of this, despite there being a 42 other plot lights going on, we're gonna jump straight into X-Men legacy number 12 where a group of X-Men attack and the red skull gives them the vision of the future that he's always hoped
1:09:43
[SPEAKER_04]: for.
1:09:44
[SPEAKER_04]: Using an inciting event to spread his goal of subjugation against minorities and then use that to conquer the world.
1:09:50
[SPEAKER_04]: The simple catchphrase, something must be done, is spreading around the populace.
1:09:54
[SPEAKER_04]: But Legion has a plan.
1:09:55
[SPEAKER_04]: His friend, Santis Ardina, a little known mutant who can turn public opinion.
1:10:00
[SPEAKER_04]: Basically, if you've done something that you got credit for, her power is to take that credit and deliver it to herself, which is a crazy kind of escapade style power that kind of affects with your head a little bit.
1:10:10
[SPEAKER_04]: and she takes all of the red skulls victories for herself.
1:10:12
[SPEAKER_04]: So, and then the public opinion turns against him, he's furious.
1:10:16
[SPEAKER_04]: Bastards the red skull yells, and the caption tells us, the skull is bitterness and fury.
1:10:21
[SPEAKER_04]: He stands alone, his is the strength and simplicity of focused authority.
1:10:26
[SPEAKER_04]: He is the seductive charm of unilateral personal power.
1:10:30
[SPEAKER_04]: His is the way of the dictator, loved and feared.
1:10:33
[SPEAKER_04]: There's a superhero battle, and the Red Skull escapes on a jetpack to be continued next time.
1:10:38
[SPEAKER_04]: Let me welcome one of my favorite people, Kaylin Bazi, to the show, to talk to me about this crazy story.
1:10:43
[SPEAKER_04]: Kaylin, are you a Red Skull fan, my friend?
1:10:45
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think anybody should be a Red Skull fan.
1:10:48
[SPEAKER_03]: If I met a Red Skull fan, I'd probably want to stay far away from them.
1:10:51
[SPEAKER_03]: But I think you're a very good villain, if that's what you're asking.
1:10:54
[SPEAKER_03]: But, Chad, so glad to be back.
1:10:56
[SPEAKER_03]: Hope you're doing well.
1:10:57
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you prefer your red skull with a jet pack or with the brain of Charles Xavier?
1:11:00
[SPEAKER_03]: Both.
1:11:00
[SPEAKER_03]: I think all villains should have jet packs.
1:11:03
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm a big fan of like the Sean Connery era, James Bond, movies, and like a jet pack makes everything better.
1:11:09
[SPEAKER_03]: And this era of like Marvel, you know, as Axis as you mentioned, it was also like on the heels of AVX, the whole like, you know, red skull, getting a hold of Charles Xavier's brain after he's killed by Cyclops and AVX happened in Rick Romenders on Kenny Avengers.
1:11:26
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought it was like a really neat way of making a red skull, like more than just a Captain America villain, making him more of a bigger Marvel villain the same way that Marvel has done with Dr. Doom, although I always think Dr. Doom is an anti-hero.
1:11:38
[SPEAKER_03]: I think red skull becoming an X-Men villain is highly underrated, and I think we got to see a lot of that in these issues of X-Men legacy.
1:11:46
[SPEAKER_04]: Dr. Doom is nuts, but he's a Romani kid who overthrew an oppressive government so he could create his own comic game.
1:11:53
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, he gave everybody universal health care.
1:11:55
[SPEAKER_03]: He protects us that as in, you know, he's actually a pretty good desperate.
1:11:58
[SPEAKER_03]: He's just, you know, his rivalry with Reed Richards is what makes him a villain.
1:12:03
[SPEAKER_03]: But that skull is a straight-up fucking Nazi.
1:12:05
[SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, like, really a villain.
1:12:06
[SPEAKER_04]: Now, when we take the sentinals as kind of the template of anti-mute and hatred, we use them as the symbols.
1:12:11
[SPEAKER_04]: And then we get the days of future past storyline with all of those images.
1:12:15
[SPEAKER_04]: This is taking that, but putting the red skulls face on it.
1:12:18
[SPEAKER_04]: Specifically, while using the braid of Charles Xavier,
1:12:21
[SPEAKER_04]: Charles Xavier's son is the child, his mother is a concentration camps survivor, and Magnus, best friend is a concentration camps survivor.
1:12:30
[SPEAKER_04]: So, Legion exists very oddly in this kind of next generation of what it means to kind of reclaim legacy while he's, you know, never quite accepted by his father.
1:12:39
[SPEAKER_04]: There's a lot going on.
1:12:40
[SPEAKER_04]: Are you a fan of Sysperia's Legion series?
1:12:43
[SPEAKER_04]: I think it's delicious.
1:12:44
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it's fantastic, and I really enjoyed what he did with, like, Legion of X, during the Krakow era.
1:12:51
[SPEAKER_03]: What I love about the X-Men in general, you and I have been X-Men fans since the dawn of time, it feels like, I promise I'm not aging us.
1:12:58
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, I'm 47, it's fine.
1:13:01
[SPEAKER_03]: But you don't look a day over 46.
1:13:03
[SPEAKER_03]: But what I love about like X-Men era is like there's always that little bit of that weirdo book, you know, during the Claremont run in the 80s new mutants filled that role and Excalibur did a little bit in the 90s you had generation X especially when Chris Bichalo was drawing the book in the 2000s you had Peter Milligan and Mike Alreds X-Force in 2010s it definitely felt that way with X-Men legacy.
1:13:27
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like
1:13:27
[SPEAKER_03]: It sits within main continuity, you see like the gene gray school in there, you see like Wolverine and Storm and the other X men, it does refer to like other events that are happening, but it's such a quirky little book and I think size barrier, he's like writing like a DC vertigo book within the context of Marvel and I fucking love it.
1:13:46
[SPEAKER_03]: David Holler is a hard character to get right.
1:13:49
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think size burriers probably the best writer to tackle him.
1:13:52
[SPEAKER_03]: And you even made a reference that, you know, this title served as a template for Noah Holley's legion series on FX.
1:14:00
[SPEAKER_03]: And so like that could not have existed if not for size burrier.
1:14:03
[SPEAKER_03]: What I liked about the storyline is, you know, making a red skull development, I always think it's really interesting about making Nazis like the antagonists of the X-Men, like we see it with Fenris, you know, we've seen it with others, clearly like the, you know, the fellowship of humans and like, you know, some of the other like sort of anti-mutant groups definitely take
1:14:22
[SPEAKER_03]: page from like Nazi ideology as well as like sort of like Nazi propaganda and Nazi, you know, imagery.
1:14:28
[SPEAKER_03]: But what's interesting about it is like if you think about like if you want to take it to it's like sort of logical, you know, conclusion, mutants are the next evolution of humans, right?
1:14:36
[SPEAKER_03]: They're the next evolution of mankind, almost superior, just to mention my podcast.
1:14:41
[SPEAKER_03]: And so, if you think about Nazi ideology, they're always talking about the ubermen, you know, like the next evolution, like they're looking for like what is the ultimate ideal.
1:14:49
[SPEAKER_03]: Wouldn't you think that like mutants would then be part of like kind of Nazi ideology?
1:14:54
[SPEAKER_03]: Uh, it's not the blonde hair blue-eyed, you know, Aryan stereotype or the Aryan prototype, rather.
1:14:59
[SPEAKER_03]: But it is about like, you know, what were mankind would go.
1:15:02
[SPEAKER_03]: So I think it's very funny that like Nazis are also, like, can be anti-mutants as well.
1:15:07
[SPEAKER_04]: There's no discerning of like of like any real logic with our idea Yes, I think it's very very funny that like they're like no wait You're technically better than us because you have powers, but we also don't like you because you're different than us Yeah, I think the trick is and I've done a lot of research into history and a lot of these red school conversations at this point The Nazis are only proud of the things that they accomplish themselves if it's an accomplishment from another community They're gonna strip the resources away and
1:15:30
[SPEAKER_04]: and we're purpose it for their mission, but they're not gonna value anything that is made by someone else.
1:15:35
[SPEAKER_04]: You might be blond and blue eyed, but if your grandfather was a Jew, they're not gonna value you in the government.
1:15:40
[SPEAKER_04]: And all, even if you fit their ideal.
1:15:42
[SPEAKER_04]: So the rest of all, making these speeches about mongrels and mutants and concentration camps is really fascinating because Legion is wrestling with the concept of what it means to be his father's son, but also his mother's son, which is a subtler theme that I think Sysperia is using here.
1:15:58
[SPEAKER_04]: So his unmet need to like have Xavier acknowledging now that Xavier's dead.
1:16:03
[SPEAKER_04]: He literally creates in his subconscious a version of his father who's constantly telling him your disappointment and driving him to give up what makes him special, which is being amputant in this storyline.
1:16:12
[SPEAKER_04]: While facing the threat that his mother survived, which is the red skull who's still alive and well, it's very smart.
1:16:18
[SPEAKER_04]: And then this weird mutant who can like take propaganda and like take credit for other people, like, oh, it's my credit now.
1:16:24
[SPEAKER_04]: No, I've lost it.
1:16:25
[SPEAKER_04]: everything.
1:16:26
[SPEAKER_04]: I compared that to like an escapade style power.
1:16:28
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a wild flip at the end.
1:16:31
[SPEAKER_03]: I love mutants that are, uh, I call it like sort of like the Doug Ramsay effect too.
1:16:35
[SPEAKER_03]: We're like the mutant, uh, powers don't manifest like cyclops or storm or Wolverine.
1:16:40
[SPEAKER_03]: We're like, it's not like very overt, but it's this like very weird subtle way of like manipulating things to your advantage.
1:16:47
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that's a really cool idea.
1:16:48
[SPEAKER_04]: I like a mutant that makes my head hurt just a little bit.
1:16:51
[SPEAKER_04]: Sometimes you're kind of figure out the powers.
1:16:53
[SPEAKER_04]: And I would love to see a whole team of like Escapade and Santis Ardena and these other characters kind of interacting together.
1:16:59
[SPEAKER_04]: I opened the our conversation with the idea of the Smith Act.
1:17:03
[SPEAKER_04]: And you know what it was created for, how it gets used.
1:17:06
[SPEAKER_04]: We're living in a time of kind of restricted speech.
1:17:08
[SPEAKER_04]: And like what patriotism means and it's jarring to look at this kind of view into history.
1:17:14
[SPEAKER_04]: But what were your thoughts on that opening?
1:17:15
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's kind of parallel to the story.
1:17:17
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it kind of reminds, you know, I just having this conversation with some friends earlier, you know, there's like this sort of like romanticizing of the FDR era, you know, especially by folks on the left, like folks of my political persuasion.
1:17:28
[SPEAKER_03]: And yes, absolutely, you know, creating the new deal, creating a lot of things that have been lasting like so security, for example.
1:17:34
[SPEAKER_03]: helping the country get out of depression, you know, we were the quote unquote good guys during rule were to against the access powers.
1:17:40
[SPEAKER_03]: Of course, when you're fighting Nazis, you're going to be the good guy.
1:17:42
[SPEAKER_03]: But there's a lot of bad stuff happening in the United States at the same time.
1:17:45
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, I mean, the Smith Act, I mean, when you were describing it, I was just thinking, how was that constitutional?
1:17:49
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, how is it?
1:17:50
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, it seems like it's a complete violation of the first amendment.
1:17:53
[SPEAKER_03]: of being able, you know, freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, so on and so forth.
1:17:56
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, the whole point of the First Amendment is it's not about speech you agree with, but it's about speech that you disagree with, too.
1:18:02
[SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, you may have anti-American rhetoric, anti-American views, but as an American, you should have the right to be able to, and even if you were not, you know, born in the United States, even if you're not a full citizen, you should have still have the right to be able to like espouse your views, as long as you're not getting violent.
1:18:16
[SPEAKER_03]: And then you brought up like Japanese internment during this era as well, you know, like a really shameful part of
1:18:20
[SPEAKER_03]: of our history.
1:18:21
[SPEAKER_03]: And it does reflect on what's happening today in our society where you have a subversion of speech, you have a manipulation of media and so on and so forth.
1:18:31
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's a really, really scary time.
1:18:33
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think the best fiction, best science fiction, horror, genre fiction, you name it is when it starts reflecting, starts reflecting, excuse me, what is happening and what has happened in the world's history.
1:18:44
[SPEAKER_03]: The X-Men has always really been great about that, like by reflecting like the prejudices that a minority or a multicultural group faces and how that manifests to restore your lines.
1:18:53
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I'm a sociologist, so I've said this a couple times on the show.
1:18:56
[SPEAKER_04]: I give speeches about this kind of thing, but when I look at the far left versus the far right, as it exists now and in American history, it's interesting because the far right is dealing with what I would call entrenchment.
1:19:07
[SPEAKER_04]: It's these deeply seeded belief systems that have never really been challenged.
1:19:11
[SPEAKER_04]: It's kind of the concept of wrestling with privilege and I don't want to have to give anything up.
1:19:15
[SPEAKER_04]: So anything that makes me challenge that thinking is an enemy, right?
1:19:19
[SPEAKER_04]: And this is like, I grew up in the Mormon religion where everyone wasn't enemy, even though you know, right, you got to try to make them like you.
1:19:25
[SPEAKER_04]: where the far left, the thing that unifies people is a diverse group of people who have been accustomed to being a minority group.
1:19:33
[SPEAKER_04]: So we've had these, this history of things being taken away.
1:19:36
[SPEAKER_04]: So even now, I don't think I've ever heard a single person on the far left say something like, oh, the far right doesn't deserve the right to vote.
1:19:43
[SPEAKER_04]: They don't deserve the right to assemble.
1:19:45
[SPEAKER_04]: They don't deserve the right to halt religion or to talk about what we're saying is like, why aren't you more decent?
1:19:50
[SPEAKER_04]: Because they're, we're starting our right to vote.
1:19:52
[SPEAKER_04]: They're we're starting our right to exist or have rights.
1:19:54
[SPEAKER_04]: So that brings me to my final question for you, my friend.
1:19:57
[SPEAKER_04]: And you can, whatever thoughts here, how you do it in 2026, these are ruptimes for us queer friends.
1:20:03
[SPEAKER_03]: All things considered I'm doing okay.
1:20:04
[SPEAKER_03]: Like on a personal level, I'm doing okay.
1:20:07
[SPEAKER_03]: On a global level, I am scared to shit, you know, like we've been in this administration now for over a year.
1:20:15
[SPEAKER_03]: It's, you know, there's been a lot of bad stuff that's happened.
1:20:18
[SPEAKER_03]: There's like a little bit of a, you know, light at the end of the tunnel.
1:20:22
[SPEAKER_03]: I hope, but also, you know, as we're recording this, you know, United States in and Israel decided to talk attack Iran and now we're recording this on March 1st everyone.
1:20:32
[SPEAKER_03]: So who knows what's gone on since then.
1:20:34
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
1:20:34
[SPEAKER_03]: could be the beginning of World War III, it could be a blip, who the hell knows.
1:20:38
[SPEAKER_03]: But I'm doing, but I'm doing okay, but I wanna go back to your point about the far left and the far right, the difference between the two, and I think there's a lot of similarities in some ways, but the difference between the two is the far left questions, everything, including questioning power, and there's almost like a version to gain power, and the far right question's nothing.
1:20:55
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like intellectual curiosity, almost to a fault to zero curiosity.
1:21:00
[SPEAKER_03]: it's like the far right is like like we find like the charismatic leader and we follow orders and we fall in line and boom, boom, boom, boom.
1:21:07
[SPEAKER_03]: That's why it's kind of so much easier to like like when you're running you know as as a as a conservative or especially far right conservative like it's just so much easier to be
1:21:15
[SPEAKER_03]: message discipline and be able to use all the various communication tools and propaganda tools to get what you want.
1:21:22
[SPEAKER_03]: Whereas on the left, like I was just having this conversation, some of my friends, including my fellow product, podcaster, Brent Wingate, about how the left sometimes can never coalesce.
1:21:31
[SPEAKER_03]: It's always like, let's question the power, let's question the authority, what have they done wrong, and they do better.
1:21:36
[SPEAKER_03]: And in a healthy democracy you want that, but at the end of the day, when you have one side that's very organized, one side that's very disorganized, it's incredibly, it's incredibly daunting.
1:21:44
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, and our country formed as a compromise over slavery.
1:21:47
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, half didn't agree and half, but so let's just find a way to get a log, which isn't a great template for anything, but I think in Mormonism, there are literal tenets where they're like, doubt your doubts.
1:21:57
[SPEAKER_04]: If you have anything going on that causes you questioning your religion, then you push it away.
1:22:01
[SPEAKER_04]: You know that that's not the right thought patterns.
1:22:03
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like digging.
1:22:04
[SPEAKER_04]: Like I think that's so embedded into the American consciousness in so many ways and it's a crazy time.
1:22:09
[SPEAKER_04]: I love talking nerdy shit with you.
1:22:11
[SPEAKER_04]: I love talking serious shit with you, dude.
1:22:13
[SPEAKER_04]: It's always excellent to hang out.
1:22:15
[SPEAKER_04]: We've got plans for a character episode.
1:22:17
[SPEAKER_04]: We're going to do black box together soon, which I was just going to do a lot of fun.
1:22:21
[SPEAKER_04]: Thanks for joining me today, Kalen.
1:22:22
[SPEAKER_04]: It's great to see your face.
1:22:24
[SPEAKER_04]: I know you and I are both going through big changes in our lives.
1:22:27
[SPEAKER_04]: It's an honor to just connect with you for a few minutes.
1:22:30
[SPEAKER_04]: Thanks for your time.
1:22:32
[SPEAKER_04]: Thanks for every listen, take care yourselves, living joyfully remains an act of defiance in this crazy world, so find your safety.
1:22:38
[SPEAKER_04]: We'll see you all back here.
1:22:39
[SPEAKER_04]: Next week, on the Grey Malkin' Lane show.