Latest / How To Protect The Ocean / From Shoveling Coral Overboard to Negotiating at the UN

Transcript

From Shoveling Coral Overboard to Negotiating at the UN · How To Protect The Ocean

• 0:00
  I bet you're sitting there, you know,
• 0:01
  you read the title of this podcast,
• 0:03
  and you're probably wondering how someone that starts off when they're younger
• 0:09
  or maybe they're working in a in a some kind of industry,
• 0:12
  and then eventually like 20, 30,
• 0:14
  40 years later, they become an advocate and and for the ocean and protect
• 0:19
  the ocean in some way. And and I'll be honest,
• 0:21
  for me, I always think of people who want to become who are scientists
• 0:25
  and they become more advocates because they've been working in the field
• 0:28
  a lot of the time.
• 0:29
  But today we're going be following the story of a man that
• 0:32
  I interviewed that's going to be Matthew Gianni,
• 0:35
  who is the co-founder and political advisor of the Deep
• 0:40
  Sea Conservation Coalition. I interviewed him on Friday.
• 0:43
  We're going to talk about his story today,
• 0:45
  because I want you to get to know who he is.
• 0:47
  And, you know, a lot of the times with guests that we have,
• 0:50
  I don't get to talk a lot about them other than what they talk about themselves.
• 0:56
  So I decide, you know what?
• 0:57
  Let's switch it up a little bit and let's really focus in on the story
• 1:01
  of Matthew Gianni, who is a was a t a fisherman in the United States
• 1:05
  for 10 years and how he ended up in Amsterdam,
• 1:08
  not only having experience working for Greenpeace for like 10,
• 1:11
  13 years, but also co-founding his own deep sea conservation coalition organization
• 1:17
  and is now advocating not only helping negotiate and putting together international
• 1:23
  agreements on deep sea fishing,
• 1:25
  but also
• 1:26
  Looking at mining and deep sea mining.
• 1:29
  We're gonna talk all about that on this episode of the How to Protect
• 1:32
  the Ocean podcast. This is the podcast where you find out everything
• 1:35
  you need to know on ocean news and ocean science and conservation Monday
• 1:39
  to Friday every week. I can't wait for you to s like follow,
• 1:45
  enjoy the journey, ~ and really dive into a resource where you can learn about
• 1:51
  the ocean and what's happening in the ocean,
• 1:52
  not just the education aspect.
• 1:54
  Of the ocean, like animals and so forth and habitats.
• 1:56
  We go through that as well. But we really talk about how things
• 2:00
  are progressing and how we are protecting the ocean.
• 2:02
  And today we're going to be talking about one of the people,
• 2:05
  one of the many, many people who has helped protect the ocean in a
• 2:09
  lot of different ways. And that is Matthew Gianni,
• 2:12
  who started his life as a fisher,
• 2:15
  or started his working life as a fisherman for 10 years on multiple coasts
• 2:21
  of fisheries.
• 2:22
  Now, this is this is an incredible story.
• 2:24
  Cause and then I want you to really start to think about what it takes
• 2:28
  for someone to go from fisher to advocate in the NGO speech space from
• 2:34
  an internationally. So going from local,
• 2:36
  right? So, you know, this is ~ like a fisherman who who's not just
• 2:40
  a fisherman in one fishery this entire time.
• 2:42
  He spanned like genuinely a wide range of fisheries,
• 2:46
  right? Not just
• 2:47
  On one boat or one coast. He did Florida.
• 2:50
  He ran around like gillnet fisheries for Spanish and ~ king mackerel.
• 2:55
  He worked on the Central California,
• 2:57
  New England, and Florida coasts on the bottom trawl fisheries for sole,
• 3:02
  redfish, hake, sable fish, shrimp,
• 3:05
  and other ground fish. Right? Like this is deep-sea trawling here.
• 3:08
  We're looking to we're talking about like off central California,
• 3:11
  down to a thousand meters, roughly 3,000 feet for my American friends.
• 3:16
  And in Oregon and California, he also participated in the hook
• 3:19
  and line fisheries for Salmon Alba Cortuna.
• 3:22
  So getting this wide variety of fish,
• 3:24
  and it doesn't stop there. In Northern California and Oregon as well,
• 3:27
  he looked at the pot fishery. He's worked at the pot fishery for Dugenous Crab.
• 3:30
  And then in Georgia's Bank, going on the East Coast,
• 3:33
  Mid-Atlantic, and in New England,
• 3:35
  dredge fishery for deep sea scallops.
• 3:38
  Now, I think a lot of times when we think about the people who are in these
• 3:43
  roles of like international policy roles and political roles,
• 3:47
  dealing with all the nuances that have to go into the regulations,
• 3:51
  whether it's national or international bodies,
• 3:53
  or even even more local. It's it's not as if like we don't know where they came
• 3:57
  from. Sometimes they come right out school and they work their way
• 4:00
  up through the policy career space.
• 4:02
  And others they come from different backgrounds like Matthew,
• 4:05
  right? And and you know, we're looking at different types of fishery that
• 4:09
  he actually did looking at gill nets,
• 4:10
  trawls, hook and line, pots, dredges.
• 4:13
  Right, up and down the Atlantic and Pacific coast,
• 4:15
  the west and east coast, the east and west coast of the United States.
• 4:18
  And so it's it's not as if he had this narrow career,
• 4:22
  right? he has a general working knowledge of a ma of the American commercial fishing
• 4:26
  system, right? And and and he's taken a lot from that,
• 4:30
  you know. And I think it it it comes down to later.
• 4:33
  We'll we'll start to see this shape how he started choosing the different paths that
• 4:39
  he took.
• 4:40
  later on in his story, and and I want you to to really understand why
• 4:45
  the deep sea like what it meant to him and and what he really understood from going
• 4:51
  into like the the especially the the trawling,
• 4:54
  right? The central California coast,
• 4:56
  trawling down to a thousand meters.
• 4:58
  Now I want you to think about what happens there.
• 5:01
  A trawl go a traw net goes down.
• 5:02
  I've I've described how what a traw net looks like,
• 5:05
  You're looking at deep sea, so a thousand meters,
• 5:06
  three thousand feet. It goes down to the bottom.
• 5:09
  It's this net that has a wide opening and then different mesh sizes
• 5:12
  for depending on what you're what you're catching.
• 5:14
  It's got ~ sometimes it's got two doors on the side to keep the the
• 5:19
  the the opening open, right, of the net.
• 5:21
  And then it's got a chain at the bottom.
• 5:24
  And when it goes down on the bottom,
• 5:25
  these are bottom trawls. When it goes down at the bottom,
• 5:28
  the train and the the the with the doors.
• 5:30
  Weighing it down, as the boat goes at a certain distance or a certain speed,
• 5:35
  the dredge will actually dredge everything up on the bottom.
• 5:39
  In part destroying everything on the bottom.
• 5:41
  So if there's habitat out there,
• 5:43
  coral sponges, anything like that,
• 5:44
  that gets destroyed. That gets brought up into the net.
• 5:47
  And then, of course, the fish that are living there get brought up,
• 5:49
  whether hiding or not. If as that as that chain goes through the bottom
• 5:55
  or across the bottom, gets dragged across the bottom,
• 5:57
  all those fish kind of.
• 5:59
  Put in there. Now it could be anything.
• 6:00
  It could be crabs, it could be fish,
• 6:01
  it could be any kind of vertebrate or invertebrate that's down there,
• 6:05
  sometimes bigger than you expect,
• 6:06
  and sometimes smaller than you expect,
• 6:08
  right? Depending on the mesh size of the net.
• 6:10
  And so as that comes up, so it gets hauled up through that 3,000 feet,
• 6:15
  that 1,000 meters, it goes up into the boat and it come and it comes over
• 6:19
  the deck at like through this A-frame.
• 6:21
  It comes over the deck and then it gets plopped into like a sorting table.
• 6:25
  Now I've been a part of these things before,
• 6:27
  and we've seen.
• 6:29
  How like it through science. And we've seen how these fish react.
• 6:33
  A lot of the fish that come up,
• 6:34
  because they're coming up faster than their their air bladders would allow,
• 6:38
  you know, the fish's eyes are like popped out of its sockets.
• 6:41
  there's probably a lot of like I with the one that I was part of,
• 6:44
  the trial that I the number of trials that I was part of,
• 6:47
  they were like short, they were like shallower,
• 6:48
  but the deep sea halls that we brought in,
• 6:50
  like the an the animals, like the eyes are popped up and everything like that.
• 6:53
  Some are still alive, like invertebrates are still alive and so forth.
• 6:56
  But like you're looking through and you're sorting through what you want,
• 6:59
  what you want to keep. And a lot of them,
• 7:01
  what what Matthew was telling me in the interview,
• 7:03
  which I'll hear on Friday, they realized that a lot of them had no market value.
• 7:07
  So glass sponges, corals, starfish,
• 7:09
  crabs. The crew just like shoveling back,
• 7:12
  shoveling them back overboard and without knowing what they were actually
• 7:17
  destroying. They they generally did not understand what it looked like before
• 7:20
  because there's no cameras that go down there.
• 7:22
  They may have thought what was there,
• 7:24
  but they're probably thinking this is the deep sea.
• 7:25
  We're not really going over anything big.
• 7:27
  And maybe if it's one, it's just one little area.
• 7:29
  But that's what happened, right?
• 7:31
  That's the image that sits with me when I see this happen or when
• 7:35
  I hear this happen. Is like you have this swath of,
• 7:38
  say, however big the net is, say it could be like,
• 7:42
  I don't know, 20 feet wide. And and you're just scraping the bottom.
• 7:46
  It could be even bigger. You're just scraping the bottom.
• 7:48
  So you have these like swaths of.
• 7:51
  Destroyed habitat as you go through.
• 7:53
  And so imagine being this fisherman who's on board trying
• 7:59
  to maximize their catch with as much market value seafood that you
• 8:04
  can get and throwing all this other thing on board,
• 8:06
  it starts to you know hit you in the back of your head,
• 8:10
  like your subconscious. It starts to get to you in that subconscious,
• 8:13
  right? And so over that time.
• 8:17
  Matthew started to to think like certain certain things are not right,
• 8:20
  certain things are right, but we're gonna continue it through this.
• 8:22
  And then there were two specific moments and two specific projects that he was like,
• 8:27
  you know what? I can't stand for this.
• 8:30
  The first, there was a hundred and ten million dollar project to dispose
• 8:35
  of dredge spoils from the San Francisco Bay directly in prime fishing grounds along
• 8:40
  the southern coast of of ~ California.
• 8:44
  So you know, you're in this area,
• 8:45
  you're a fisherman, you want to maximize the area,
• 8:47
  you know what's around there. And then all of a sudden,
• 8:50
  this project, this major project,
• 8:52
  $110 million, comes through and says,
• 8:54
  hey, you know what, we're actually gonna take the dredge,
• 8:56
  like the San Francisco Bay needs to be dredged out,
• 8:58
  and we're just gonna dump them in this one area.
• 9:00
  And the fisherman, like, well,
• 9:01
  hold on a second, you can't do that.
• 9:03
  So, working together with some of his colleagues in the fishing industry,
• 9:06
  he helped halt that project for several years until the US Army Corps
• 9:10
  of Engineers and the EPA agreed.
• 9:12
  To move the disposal site off the continental shelf.
• 9:15
  Now, is that great? No, still not great,
• 9:18
  but not in his area. He won the fight with his colleagues together as
• 9:22
  a community of fishermen, they won that fight.
• 9:26
  And that takes a lot, like you're going up against the Army Army Corps of Engineers.
• 9:30
  It's a federal and EPA. Those are two federal bodies that were a
• 9:33
  lot stronger than they were today.
• 9:34
  Now, the second event that really kind of put him more towards.
• 9:40
  Advocacy are really learning toward what you can accomplish with the advocate,
• 9:43
  is he served as a fishing industry ~ representative in efforts to oppose
• 9:48
  to oppose offshore oil and gas leases along the central coast of California.
• 9:52
  Right? So oil and gas had like in California have a very interesting history.
• 9:57
  And so, as again, as part of the fishing industry and as a representative,
• 10:01
  he participated in efforts to ensure that there was no offshore oil
• 10:05
  and gas leases that were going to be.
• 10:07
  sold off of the central California coast.
• 10:09
  So, you know, two projects that were are worth being like,
• 10:13
  wow, like this is a fisherman who's who's standing up for his right and
• 10:19
  his like his people's rights, like his other fishermen's rights to fish
• 10:22
  in nice areas where they can get maximum fisheries,
• 10:25
  right? And but he's and and and he's still fighting these these things like
• 10:30
  you know looking at oil and gas
• 10:32
  Oil and gas leases, that how that can affect fishing,
• 10:34
  looking at dredging, being dumped in a prime fishing spot.
• 10:37
  So he's starting to think that,
• 10:39
  hey, I can get a lot done with this,
• 10:41
  right? And I think having the,
• 10:44
  and I can't say this for sure,
• 10:45
  but having the the the in the back of your mind,
• 10:48
  your subconscious, the knowing that the effects of what you're doing
• 10:51
  in this deep-sea trawling game,
• 10:52
  I think it started to really change the way he thought.
• 10:56
  And having these, this, these two experiences with advocacy.
• 11:00
  Could really help think that, hey,
• 11:02
  I maybe I can do a a lot more for the environment within fisheries.
• 11:06
  Still get, you know, I'm still standing up for fishers,
• 11:08
  but like we can actually do a little bit more,
• 11:11
  right? He went up against the Army Corps of Engineers and the EPA and they won,
• 11:15
  right? At least for a few years.
• 11:17
  That's like a that's pretty meaningful in that way,
• 11:20
  right? You know, it's it's it's the fact that the he didn't come from outside
• 11:24
  the industry to fight like, you know,
• 11:26
  for or against fisheries. He came in.
• 11:29
  From the inside the industry, inside the fishing industry,
• 11:31
  say, hey, we need to stand up for our fishers.
• 11:33
  Oil and gas could be really bad for us.
• 11:34
  We saw that with the BP oil spill.
• 11:36
  Also, you're looking at you know,
• 11:39
  the EPA and the Army Corps of Engineers that put out dredge in the middle
• 11:43
  of a prime fishing spot. No, we're not gonna do that.
• 11:45
  So all that thinking allowed him to be like,
• 11:48
  Hey, you know what? I think I can do more.
• 11:51
  I think I can benefit more. And I wanna stay on the environmental side
• 11:54
  and really look at what we can do.
• 11:56
  So he went to work.
• 11:58
  For Greenpeace International, right?
• 12:00
  He helped start up their international fisheries campaign.
• 12:03
  That's pretty good. You know, he's working with NGOs
• 12:05
  and community-based organizations across Latin America,
• 12:08
  Southeast Asia, India, Europe,
• 12:11
  and the US on unsustainable aquaculture campaigns and other and other campaigns like
• 12:16
  that. That's pretty cool. Then he also led like Greenpeace's participation
• 12:20
  in the UN conference of straddling fish stocks and highly migratory fish stocks.
• 12:26
  And in the negoti and and in the negotiation of the UN FAO Code
• 12:29
  of Conduct for Responsible Fisheries.
• 12:31
  So now you're looking at international campaigns here.
• 12:34
  And he worked on and toward the end of his the campaign led,
• 12:38
  and the end of the campaign led the international effort to secure
• 12:41
  UN General Assembly moratorium on high-seas drift net fishing.
• 12:44
  And that was adopted in 1991 and 1992 at the UNS UN General Assembly
• 12:50
  and entered effect in 1992.
• 12:52
  That's pretty cool. Like that now you start like you're working with Greenpeace
• 12:55
  International, having this this advocacy experience from fisheries,
• 13:00
  now coming into the NGO game with a pretty,
• 13:03
  I would say, known and getting more and more reputable organization,
• 13:08
  like in the nineties and in in the ~ in the two thousands,
• 13:11
  right? And and cause they were a real like activist organization when
• 13:16
  it first started, right? One of the co-founders was Paul Watson.
• 13:20
  And so they were really into the ad activism part and they started to
• 13:23
  get into the advocacy part and you know looking at policy and so forth,
• 13:27
  right? They still do activism,
• 13:28
  but a lot of times looking at this,
• 13:30
  and so the reputation started to get bigger and better within
• 13:33
  the conservation ~ regime, right?
• 13:34
  They were within the conservation field.
• 13:36
  and then so any regularly represented Greenpeace at fisheries
• 13:39
  and ocean-related internet intergovernmental forums,
• 13:42
  including the UN FAO Committee on Fisheries meetings,
• 13:45
  technical and expert consultations.
• 13:47
  And the UN Commission on Sustainable Development,
• 13:50
  ICAT, and the 1992 UN Earth Summit.
• 13:54
  So I guess, you know, looking at from a policy perspective
• 13:58
  and looking at negotiations and look and his participation in that,
• 14:01
  Matthew's like getting in there.
• 14:03
  He's getting his feet wet, so to speak.
• 14:05
  Right. And then not only is he doing it in the back rooms,
• 14:09
  like in the meeting rooms, he's also organizing,
• 14:11
  you know, at this time, organized Greenpeace ships ~ expeditions.
• 14:15
  To document overfishing and unsustainable fishing practices,
• 14:17
  more on their activism side, on the Grand Banks,
• 14:19
  the Georgia's Bank, and the Barents Sea.
• 14:21
  And then he worked through a number of different campaigns where
• 14:25
  he became involved in international policy and treaty negotiations.
• 14:29
  And eventually he ran the entire ocean program for for ~ Greenpeace International.
• 14:34
  This is how he ended up ended up in Amsterdam,
• 14:37
  where he still lives today. Now,
• 14:39
  I I want to just go back into his fishing days.
• 14:44
  Fishing in a plethora of different industries.
• 14:47
  And then moving into like after two you know successful campaigns
• 14:53
  for fisheries industries moves into a larger platform
• 14:59
  and a larger scale of effect on these policies that he's putting into place
• 15:04
  or helping, you know, negotiate and form and shape and form.
• 15:07
  And now
• 15:09
  He's in charge of the entire Greenpeace International Ocean Program.
• 15:13
  From fisheries to ocean program.
• 15:16
  That's incredible. That's like that's pretty incredible.
• 15:20
  Right? I think, I think it's it's something where you you know
• 15:24
  you look you're talking about the UN General Assembly.
• 15:26
  You're talking about ship like planning ship expeditions into some of
• 15:30
  the most like contested fishing grounds on earth.
• 15:34
  Right? And he's got a seat in every major international fisheries.
• 15:39
  form that that it that pretty much existed.
• 15:41
  So that's like from an in for an individual to do that as part
• 15:46
  of an organization like this, that's pretty good.
• 15:48
  And a fisher no less, right? Like I think this is why we need
• 15:52
  to really understand that advocates and and and people like yourselves
• 15:58
  who are listening to this who really care about the ocean,
• 16:00
  you can you can get to a point wherever you want to by hard work
• 16:05
  And participating in things while doing like your job or anything to really build
• 16:10
  up your reputation, to really get to where you want to go and be able
• 16:14
  to ask the question: can I go bigger?
• 16:16
  Or maybe you want to stay at the same age,
• 16:19
  or can I do more for the ocean?
• 16:20
  This story is really starting to ask that question,
• 16:25
  right? For me, as I look towards a future in ocean conservation.
• 16:29
  I'm 47 years old. I still got a future,
• 16:31
  folks. I'm not that old.
• 16:33
  Right. And and I I think this story is inspiring in in looking at that.
• 16:38
  Right. And I think think about like this is a fisherman who once shoveled coral
• 16:43
  overboard and f and fought a like a dredge spoil project from the deck of a boat.
• 16:49
  Is is now negotiating global moratoriums at at the UN.
• 16:54
  Like I think that's pretty cool.
• 16:57
  Right.
• 16:59
  And then he said, you know what,
• 17:00
  in early 2000s, he said, I'm gonna I want to do more.
• 17:03
  Like I the Greenpeace has been great,
• 17:05
  but I want to really focus on the deep sea.
• 17:08
  And he co-founded the Deep Sea Conservation Coalition,
• 17:12
  which is an international coalition of over 80 organizations worldwide promoting
• 17:18
  protection of the deep sea's biodiversity from harmful activities.
• 17:22
  And he so he serves right now as the DSCC's political and policy advisor.
• 17:29
  And he it's aimed at ending deep water trawling primarily on seamount ecosystems
• 17:35
  on this high seas and is pursued through the UN General Assembly process.
• 17:39
  So he's again working on this international level,
• 17:42
  right? Now the organization has successfully advocated through the coalition,
• 17:47
  has successfully advocated for major changes to international law,
• 17:51
  policy, and regulations at the UN General Assembly and the UN FAO.
• 17:56
  And regional fisheries management organizations and other international forums,
• 18:00
  all focused on protecting deep sea ecosystems on the high seas.
• 18:03
  Now, I haven't mentioned deep sea mining yet,
• 18:05
  because this is before 2014. And they continue to do this for the deep sea.
• 18:09
  Because it's not just deep sea mining that is putting pressure on the deep sea.
• 18:14
  I want to get that clear. It is there,
• 18:16
  I mean, it's it's starting to put pressure on it,
• 18:18
  but that's not what we were worried about at this time.
• 18:21
  And for the deep sea conservation coalition,
• 18:25
  that
• 18:25
  was what they were worried about was deep sea trawling.
• 18:27
  That's where this is this is where this is where Matthew's experience really comes
• 18:32
  in. This is where his first concern of putting,
• 18:35
  you know, glass sponges, corals all over the over the overboard after
• 18:38
  a trawl started to come into play and started to say,
• 18:41
  hey, ~ we need to put this into effect.
• 18:43
  We need to protect the ocean. Now since 2014,
• 18:47
  the coalition started to take on the deep sea mining issue.
• 18:50
  Right. But I like
• 18:53
  I want I want you to think about this.
• 18:56
  He went from Fisher all over the place to international program
• 19:02
  or program internet like Greenpeace International program director for the oceans.
• 19:06
  Like the director of all of it.
• 19:09
  He left like a stable, high-level role in Greenpeace International,
• 19:13
  one of the biggest environmental organizations in the world,
• 19:15
  to go build something new. Aimed squarely at the exact kind of destruction
• 19:20
  he used to cause.
• 19:21
  With his own hands, like him and his crew.
• 19:23
  Like that's a pretty full circle moment right now.
• 19:26
  Right? So think about like how many years?
• 19:29
  This is over like like a couple of decades that he's like,
• 19:32
  We did so much wrong in the deep sea at the time when I started for where when
• 19:37
  I was fishing. Now I have the chance to really bring it into moment.
• 19:41
  I've I've put myself in a position where I can really make a difference.
• 19:45
  And now he's they're taking on the coalition's taking on deep sea mining.
• 19:50
  Right, started like the they that work started in 2014 for them.
• 19:53
  And in his own like it in in in Matthew's own words,
• 19:56
  he's he said he started on the basis of that work,
• 20:00
  the seamount trawling ~ campaign,
• 20:02
  that that he eventually got into the issue of deep sea like deep sea bed mining,
• 20:08
  like himself. Right. That's what he's looking at,
• 20:10
  right? He's looking at, you know,
• 20:12
  going through deep sea trawling.
• 20:13
  Now you got deep sea mining, you know,
• 20:16
  you're looking on the seabed, you need to
• 20:18
  clean that up. You make you gotta make sure that's not gonna cause a problem.
• 20:21
  So he saw like the core of the problem was the same that drove him to find like
• 20:26
  to to start the like the deep sea conservation coalition in the first place.
• 20:30
  Like there's almost no baseline data that exists for either seamounts
• 20:34
  or deep sea beds. Right. So there's no way to know what has been lost until after
• 20:39
  it's already gone. This is what scientists have been proposing for a long,
• 20:42
  long time, over a decade.
• 20:45
  Right. also points like specific gaps.
• 20:47
  So like looking at connectivity between species.
• 20:49
  So looking at how these species go from one place to another.
• 20:53
  So a lot of times I mentioned in past episodes that a lot of the species will,
• 20:58
  you know, be born or hatch as larvae in one area and the currents will bring
• 21:02
  it to another area. And that distance can can vary depending on the species from
• 21:06
  a couple of kilometers or even like a couple of feet all the way to 10,
• 21:11
  20 kilometers, maybe even more.
• 21:13
  Right. And looking at how deep sea ecosystems are structured,
• 21:16
  looking at how long species will live down there,
• 21:18
  how they reproduce, you know, what they even like what can they even look like
• 21:23
  as larvae. And and none of that is really well understood in the deep sea.
• 21:28
  So it's not as if like he just did this,
• 21:30
  like started the deep sea coalition conservation conservation or coalition
• 21:35
  on the on like as a way of just like let's just do this for the sake of it,
• 21:38
  right? He did it because it's the same fight that's followed him since
• 21:42
  his his trawling days. You know,
• 21:44
  he spent years proving that trawling was destroying seamount species.
• 21:48
  we haven't even discovered yet.
• 21:49
  Deep sea mining raised like the exact same fear.
• 21:53
  An industry like about to.
• 21:55
  tear into the seabed or suck up stuff on top of the seabed before scientists
• 22:00
  can even be like map what lives there.
• 22:03
  Right. And and we're going to be talking tomorrow.
• 22:05
  We're going to be talking about what the what what the effect of like trawling
• 22:10
  on seamounts can do in deep sea and why that's important.
• 22:12
  And something that really took Matthew to the next level after seeing this study.
• 22:16
  We're going to focus on that study.
• 22:17
  And then on Thursday and Friday's episodes,
• 22:21
  we're really going to dive into deep sea mining.
• 22:22
  And then the the Thursday one is going to be interesting,
• 22:25
  or the fr Wednesday one's going to be interesting because I'm really going
• 22:27
  to dive into what makes
• 22:29
  A CEO from one of these mining companies look at deep sea mining and say,
• 22:33
  Hey, you know what? This is a good idea.
• 22:34
  And then we're gonna go into like what some of the claims are
• 22:38
  on Thursday's episode and say of deep sea mining and why they're
• 22:42
  not really bothering anybody, because apparently the deep sea is just
• 22:46
  a desert and there's really not that much going on there,
• 22:48
  which we know is not true. So we're gonna go through all that.
• 22:50
  And of course, we're gonna end the week with an interview with Matthew Gianni.
• 22:54
  talking about a lot of the stuff that we talked about today,
• 22:56
  but you're going to hear it straight from his mouth.
• 22:58
  And it's going to be an incredible,
• 23:00
  incredible week of looking at the deep sea.
• 23:02
  So I want you to follow this podcast if you haven't followed before
• 23:06
  on your favorite podcast app. And of course you can also check
• 23:08
  out Ocean Decoded Live on YouTube.
• 23:10
  I've started Monday to Thursday doing a live show talking about
• 23:14
  all these different things that are happening around the ocean because
• 23:16
  I can't keep it all and do it all on here on this podcast,
• 23:20
  but I can do it.
• 23:21
  as well. I can do it on on YouTube as well.
• 23:23
  So ~ be sure to check that out.
• 23:26
  ~ I wanna thank you for joining me on today's episode of the How
• 23:29
  to Protect the Ocean podcast. I'm your host,
• 23:31
  Andrew Lewin. Have a great day.
• 23:32
  We'll talk to you next time and happy conservation.