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Randall Sullivan on his new book, "The First All-Star Game" · The Sean O'Connell Show

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  Speaker 1: Love Loggy You tune to The Shan O'Connell Show from
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  Speaker 1: a Murdoc Chevrolet studio of ESPN seven hundred and ninety
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  Speaker 1: two one alf Am.
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  Speaker 2: Based on You and.
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  Speaker 3: The Spy and basing gets by on you. Welcome back
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  Speaker 3: to the Shawan o'condll Show.
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  Speaker 4: Welcome in Randall Sullivan, author of Baseball's Game of the Century,
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  Speaker 4: the first All Star Game, new book out.
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  Speaker 3: Randall Sullivan, Welcome to the show. How are you?
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  Speaker 2: I'm just signed. Thanks for having me.
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  Speaker 4: I appreciate you coming on to talk about this project.
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  Speaker 4: Whenever we have authors on, I always try to get
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  Speaker 4: to the root, the how and the why.
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  Speaker 3: Why did you decide you wanted to tackle.
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  Speaker 4: This story, this book about a well known and already
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  Speaker 4: very famous game about much has already been written.
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  Speaker 3: Why did you decide to write this book?
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  Speaker 2: Well, I don't think that much has been written, but
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  Speaker 2: being that as it may, you know, I wanted to
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  Speaker 2: tell the story of an athletic band, a game that
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  Speaker 2: was more than a game that was played at a
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  Speaker 2: moment when the country and the sport really needed a
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  Speaker 2: moment of uplift and coming together and seeing something you know,
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  Speaker 2: new happened for the first time, and I don't think
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  Speaker 2: there's been another athletic contest in America that was so
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  Speaker 2: singular in the moment.
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  Speaker 4: Nineteen thirty three, Give the listeners. Most of us were
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  Speaker 4: not alive then, So give the listeners. Some contextell on exactly.
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  Speaker 4: You know what you were just alluding to the fact,
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  Speaker 4: you know why the nation needed a game like this
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  Speaker 4: at a time like that.
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  Speaker 2: Well, nineteen thirty three was the very bottom of the
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  Speaker 2: great depression the country had been and the game of
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  Speaker 2: baseball had been spiraling for three and a half years,
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  Speaker 2: you know, with the country of breadlines and abandoned farms
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  Speaker 2: and you know, people living in tar paper shacks. But
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  Speaker 2: the game of baseball was suffering right along with everyone else.
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  Speaker 2: There were attendants that drop by more than half, and
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  Speaker 2: most of the tickets being sold are for the cheap seats,
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  Speaker 2: so virtually every team was losing money and quite a
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  Speaker 2: few were teetering on the brink of collapse. So something
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  Speaker 2: that would revive interest in the game and the spirits
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  Speaker 2: of fans and you know, the country as a whole,
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  Speaker 2: was really welcome.
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  Speaker 4: Was there any vision in the moment that they decided
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  Speaker 4: to do this exhibition that it would spark a yearly contest,
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  Speaker 4: that it would spark other sports to have their own
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  Speaker 4: versions of this. Was it truly conceptualized as a one
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  Speaker 4: off event.
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  Speaker 2: It was, you know, and most and the people there,
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  Speaker 2: all the participants, all believed that this was going to
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  Speaker 2: be a one time thing, which made it, you know,
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  Speaker 2: especially significant and memorable. You know, there was a lot
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  Speaker 2: of doubt whether in the midst of this depression there
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  Speaker 2: would be the fan support, if people could afford to
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  Speaker 2: buy the tickets and make the effort to get there,
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  Speaker 2: and it turned out to be a huge success that
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  Speaker 2: the whole country got behind. I don't think there's been
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  Speaker 2: any sporting event there hadn't been one up to that
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  Speaker 2: point that was you know, as widely promoted and publicized
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  Speaker 2: in the national press. So, you know, the anticipation was
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  Speaker 2: enormous and it really lived up to everyone's expectations, and
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  Speaker 2: especially in the you know, Babe Ruth, basically on his
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  Speaker 2: last legs, rose to the occasion and you know, was
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  Speaker 2: the star of the game.
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  Speaker 4: I'm fascinated by the fact that this was the first
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  Speaker 4: and the fact that at that time in sports you
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  Speaker 4: still could have first We're now in twenty twenty six,
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  Speaker 4: it seems like it's kind of hard for you know,
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  Speaker 4: anything that happens to be Oh, this is the first
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  Speaker 4: time we've ever seen this, or this is the first
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  Speaker 4: time that a player has done this or accomplished this,
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  Speaker 4: and you know, telling these stories and reading stories of
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  Speaker 4: when you know it truly was unprecedented.
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  Speaker 3: It is things that had never been seen before.
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  Speaker 4: And you know, you weren't there randall at this game,
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  Speaker 4: So as you were going back and trying to capture
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  Speaker 4: the exact sentiment and what it was to witness something
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  Speaker 4: like this for the first time, how did you do it?
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  Speaker 3: Where did you go, who did you talk to? What
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  Speaker 3: did you find?
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  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, you know, things have been here. The
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  Speaker 2: digital age has certainly been great for people doing any
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  Speaker 2: kind of historical research because if you know where to look,
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  Speaker 2: you can find every newspaper of every day of that
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  Speaker 2: time and how it looked from all those different angles.
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  Speaker 2: But what I really appreciated was that baseball, maybe more
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  Speaker 2: than any other single aspect of American life, has had
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  Speaker 2: a dedicated ranks of historians who have documented the game
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  Speaker 2: in such detail. And it's literally your fingertips. You can
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  Speaker 2: put in a date and a game and find you know,
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  Speaker 2: virtually what happened pitch by pitch, because they've put it
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  Speaker 2: all in the record, and I was just astounded by,
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  Speaker 2: you know what these baseball historians had already done, most
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  Speaker 2: of them not professional. The Society for American Baseball Research
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  Speaker 2: is just an astounding organization that, you know, I owe
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  Speaker 2: them a huge debt of thanks for all that they
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  Speaker 2: you know, curated for me.
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  Speaker 4: Randall Sullivan is in our guest here on the Sean
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  Speaker 4: O'Connell Show. He wrote a book, The First All Star Game,
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  Speaker 4: America's Game of the Century. Really so thing you should
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  Speaker 4: check out from the sports historian perspective and from the
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  Speaker 4: history of the United States perspective, because the other backdrop here,
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  Speaker 4: right was that, you know, Hitler had taken power in Germany,
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  Speaker 4: and this was at the World's Fair in Chicago. Was
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  Speaker 4: there not a swastika on display on a zeppelin or
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  Speaker 4: something at the World's Fair in Chicago?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you know, Hitler became Chancellor of Germany
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  Speaker 2: and Roosevelt became President of the United States about two
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  Speaker 2: weeks apart, so it was you know, an incredible time.
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  Speaker 2: But yeah, among the many you know, foreign delegations was
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  Speaker 2: a giant airship that was sent by Germany, and it
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  Speaker 2: did indeed have a Swastika emblazoned on it, and it
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  Speaker 2: came in low over the fair, you know, and not
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  Speaker 2: literally cast a shadow over the entire midway, but people
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  Speaker 2: were celebrating. It wasn't perceived at the time that Germany
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  Speaker 2: and Hitler and even Nazism was any great threat to
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  Speaker 2: in the world, which he was just a you know,
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  Speaker 2: somebody like Roosevelt, who was, you know, a great talker
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  Speaker 2: who was trying to revive a depressed country.
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  Speaker 4: It paints such an interesting picture in my mind, whether
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  Speaker 4: it actually happened this way or not. But I see
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  Speaker 4: in my mind's eye, like Babe Ruth at the plate
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  Speaker 4: in an All Star Game, and somewhere off in the
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  Speaker 4: distance that airship, and just like the juxtaposition of sport
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  Speaker 4: and politics and sport and world stage has always happened.
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  Speaker 4: But man, what a time for it to be taking
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  Speaker 4: place at the World's Fair in Chicago. From a Chicago perspective,
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  Speaker 4: I mean, we're out here in Salt Lake City, and
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  Speaker 4: I don't know if people have family there like I do.
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  Speaker 4: I don't know if people feel any kind of connection
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  Speaker 4: to the city. Of Chicago, but it is one of
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  Speaker 4: our great sports town in the United States, and you know,
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  Speaker 4: it feels like the city itself. Maybe don't you tell
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  Speaker 4: me whether it benefited from this game or whether it helped.
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  Speaker 4: This game helped establish Chicago as one of the places
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  Speaker 4: we make synonymous with American sport.
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  Speaker 3: What was the city's role in this.
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  Speaker 2: Well, it certainly contributed. I mean, the World's Fair was
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  Speaker 2: huge for Chicago. Chicago was sort of stuck with the
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  Speaker 2: World's Fair. They voted the bond to do it on
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  Speaker 2: October twenty eighth, nineteen twenty nine, the day before the
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  Speaker 2: stock market crashed. So in this wave of the enthusiasm
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  Speaker 2: about you know, America's economic ascendants, they were stuck with
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  Speaker 2: this thing in America's economic collapse. But they really rallied
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  Speaker 2: and put together vocabulous World's Fair. And by a series
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  Speaker 2: of amazing coincidences, which began with the attempted assassination of
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  Speaker 2: President elect Roosevelt, these events triggered you one after another
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  Speaker 2: like dominoes leading up to this game, this game becoming
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  Speaker 2: part of the world. It almost seems like fate was
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  Speaker 2: making it happen. When you look back through the historical narrative.
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  Speaker 4: Randa, will you be writing the screenplay for a film
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  Speaker 4: adaptation or a television mini series adaptation of this story
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  Speaker 4: because there's just so many elements to it and the
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  Speaker 4: cast of characters. Just from this conversation, I mean, you
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  Speaker 4: could have it seems like it's a very cinematic backdrop
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  Speaker 4: at least.
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  Speaker 2: Well, I couldn't agree more. I think it would probably
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  Speaker 2: have to be a television series, and a couple of
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  Speaker 2: people have approached me about it already. The question I
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  Speaker 2: always have is who could play Babe Ruth.
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  Speaker 3: We have to find someone.
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  Speaker 2: But you know, I mean, it was it was quite
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  Speaker 2: amazing to me that to realize that Babe Ruth and
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  Speaker 2: lou Gerrig and all these players were sharing headlines with
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  Speaker 2: John Dillinger and Bonnie and Clyde and Charles Lindberg and
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  Speaker 2: Charlie Chaplin, all of this was and it all hit
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  Speaker 2: All of this was you know, you know, coinciding, and
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  Speaker 2: that was the sort of the tableau of the time.
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  Speaker 2: And to put baseball in that perspective personally, I found fascinating.
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  Speaker 2: And you know, it was really a fun book to
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  Speaker 2: write because it's ultimately an uplifting story. It's about something,
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  Speaker 2: you know that really gave the American people a reminder
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  Speaker 2: of how good it feels when everything comes together and
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  Speaker 2: people really make something happen in a sort of unified way.
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  Speaker 4: Did you have a deep affection for baseball before you
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  Speaker 4: started this project.
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  Speaker 2: Well, I played baseball every summer from seventy seventeen, so
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  Speaker 2: it's pretty inaned in my you know, childhood psyche and
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  Speaker 2: I was one of those people who really liked to
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  Speaker 2: read about, you know, the old days and the great players.
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  Speaker 2: And I wouldn't, you know, I wouldn't say that I
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  Speaker 2: had been the most the steadiest baseball fan. I always
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  Speaker 2: watched the World Series and usually the All Star Game.
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  Speaker 2: But you know, I must say writing this book really
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  Speaker 2: kind of inspired me, you know, in terms of because
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  Speaker 2: it reminded me how thuoughly ingrained baseball is in American history,
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  Speaker 2: American culture. There's no other sport that says deep in
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  Speaker 2: the fabric of America as baseball.
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  Speaker 3: What's the next project?
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  Speaker 4: I mean, if I go to your bibliography here, you've
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  Speaker 4: tackled the first All Star Game, the notorious Big Tupac Feud,
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  Speaker 4: the murder of Notorious Big Oak Island, and the conspiracies
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  Speaker 4: and Secrets of Oak Island Michael Jackson. I mean, you've
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  Speaker 4: got this really broad array of things that you've written on, investigated,
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  Speaker 4: et cetera. So is there something that you can give us?
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  Speaker 4: Can you give me like a little preview of what
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  Speaker 4: may be coming next from Randall Sellier?
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  Speaker 2: You know, I honestly don't know what the best next
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  Speaker 2: book is. I'm involved in television production and a movie
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  Speaker 2: development right now, which is sort of consuming my time
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  Speaker 2: and attention. You know, I actually have I mean, I
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  Speaker 2: never thought I was going to become a baseball writer,
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  Speaker 2: per se. But one book I've been thinking about is
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  Speaker 2: actually another baseball story or a baseball in American history story.
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  Speaker 2: But I don't want to give it away because somebody
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  Speaker 2: else might take the idea.
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  Speaker 4: Okay, fair enough, I can appreciate that I've written a
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  Speaker 4: couple of books myself. Not in your world's just science fiction,
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  Speaker 4: dumb stuff. But so I always ask this question for
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  Speaker 4: people who are listening to this conversation and they want
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  Speaker 4: to acquire your book, where can they get it that
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  Speaker 4: benefits you the best? There's not You known't always have
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  Speaker 4: the same deal with every bookseller, et cetera. Where is
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  Speaker 4: the preferable source of Randall Sullivan writing. So it maximizes
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  Speaker 4: your earnings, your satisfaction, whatever.
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  Speaker 2: Well you know, to be quite honest, I make more
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  Speaker 2: money if you buy it in a bookstore rather than
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  Speaker 2: on Amazon. But the reality is that sixty percent of
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  Speaker 2: the books I sell will probably be on Amazon. But
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  Speaker 2: I really hope you will, hope people will continue to
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  Speaker 2: support bookstores, especially independent bookstores. So I mean, I'm always
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  Speaker 2: happy to see and the last two books I've written
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  Speaker 2: have been for some reason, they've done better in bookstores
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  Speaker 2: than they have on Amazon. So that's actually been quite
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  Speaker 2: encouraging to me.
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  Speaker 3: That's cool, that's good to know.
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  Speaker 4: So if you're out there listening, go find the First
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  Speaker 4: All Star Game by Randall Sullivan at a bookstore, bookstore,
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  Speaker 4: potentially an independent bookstore if you have to. If you
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  Speaker 4: can't find another place, then go ahead and pick it
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  Speaker 4: up on Amazon. And yeah, immerse yourself in the history
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  Speaker 4: of baseball and the backdrop of the mob and assassin
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  Speaker 4: attempts on the president of the United States and on
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  Speaker 4: Hitler's rise to power in Germany.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, this is randal.
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  Speaker 4: This is like, it's like the ven Diagram of all
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  Speaker 4: the things that me as a forty two year old
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  Speaker 4: father slash sports fan. This is all the stuff I
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  Speaker 4: need to read anyway, so I cannot wait to tackle
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  Speaker 4: this book.
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  Speaker 2: Well that's great to hear, and I hope plentise join you.
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  Speaker 3: Randall, thank you so much for your time.
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  Speaker 4: And I'm gonna I'm gonna ask for a commitment now
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  Speaker 4: that when the new book is out, or when you're
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  Speaker 4: ready to tell people what that book is, please come
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  Speaker 4: back on and let us know.
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  Speaker 2: I'd be happy to happy, please and honor.
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  Speaker 4: That's Randall Sullivan. Go check out his new book, The
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  Speaker 4: First All Star Game America at the Crossroads. It is
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  Speaker 4: available on Amazon wherever you get your books. Go find
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  Speaker 4: it at a bookstore if you want to maximize what
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  Speaker 4: Randall gets out of it.
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  Speaker 3: Great great stuff,