Latest / Hopestream: Parenting Kids Through Addiction & Mental Health / Keep Coming Back: A Hollywood Director Finds Art, And Healing Through His Daughter’s Recovery, with Mark Rosman

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Keep Coming Back: A Hollywood Director Finds Art, And Healing Through His Daughter’s Recovery, with Mark Rosman · Hopestream: Parenting Kids Through Addiction & Mental Health

• 0:01
  Mark: It dawned on me.
• 0:02
  Mark: I said, wait a second.
• 0:03
  Mark: I'm like looking at myself in the mirror going, wait a second, the kind of arc that I went through, the growth that I went through is what you want out of a main character.
• 0:14
  Mark: They start in one way and then they, through this whole experience, they come out with all this growth.
• 0:19
  Mark: And I realized that had happened to me.
• 0:22
  Mark: And not only that, that this had never been done before.
• 0:26
  Mark: Nobody had ever made a, at least a narrative, a fictional film about.
• 0:31
  Mark: The parents and about the journey that they go through, especially with this great hopeful message,
• 0:47
  Brenda: you are listening to Hope Stream.
• 0:48
  Brenda: If you're parenting a young person who misuses substances is in a treatment program or finding their way to recovery, you're in the right place.
• 0:57
  Brenda: This is your private space to learn from experts and gain encouragement and support from me.
• 1:03
  Brenda: Brenda Zane, your host and fellow mom, to a child who struggled.
• 1:07
  Brenda: This podcast is just one of the resources we offer for parents.
• 1:11
  Brenda: So, after the episode, head over to our website at HopeStreamCommunity.
• 1:15
  Brenda: org.
• 1:17
  Brenda: I'm so glad you're here.
• 1:18
  Brenda: Take a deep breath, exhale, and know that you have found your people.
• 1:24
  Brenda: And now let's get into today's show.
• 1:26
  Brenda: Hello, my friend.
• 1:27
  Brenda: I am glad to be here with you today.
• 1:30
  Brenda: Have you ever been at a point on this journey slash roller Hmm, I wonder where all the crew and cameras are because this must be the best?
• 1:42
  Brenda: I know I had that thought more than once, for sure, and so did Mark Rossman.
• 1:51
  Brenda: The difference, though, is Mark is a Hollywood director who's made films like A Cinderella Story and The Perfect Man, and television series like Lizzie McGuire with Hilary Duff, even Stevens Ghost Whisperer, the new Alfred Hitchcock Presents, State of Grace, and Greek.
• 2:10
  Brenda: But, what was happening in Mark's personal life around 2010 was just as movie worthy as what he does for a living, because his daughter was struggling with mental health and substance use.
• 2:24
  Brenda: And Mark and his wife found themselves in probably some of the same insane, scary, head scratching moments that you do.
• 2:33
  Brenda: They were in denial about their daughter's very serious drug use.
• 2:37
  Brenda: And even when a counselor met with their daughter and advised that they get her into treatment immediately, they still thought she was probably just exaggerating about it all and sent her off to a regular boarding school.
• 2:51
  Brenda: Well, you can imagine how that went.
• 2:53
  Brenda: And so started Mark's official roller coaster ride.
• 2:58
  Brenda: In this very real conversation, you'll hear how Mark as a dad got to his own quote unquote rock bottom.
• 3:06
  Brenda: and how he turned himself around, got out of the land of denial and learned all about boundaries and disconnecting from his daughter's drama.
• 3:16
  Brenda: You'll hear about his Al Anon experience and what he thinks about men's groups.
• 3:21
  Brenda: Fast forward and Mark's daughter made it through her struggles.
• 3:26
  Brenda: She has five years in recovery and is living a healthy, productive life.
• 3:31
  Brenda: When the dust started to settle, Mark realized how impactful the experience that he had just been through was and wanted to tell the story.
• 3:40
  Brenda: So he decided to work on a new film, but not about the so called perfect family that was often the center of the movies that he directed.
• 3:49
  Brenda: This time, he wanted to share with the world a parent's perspective on navigating a child's addiction and mental health challenges.
• 3:57
  Brenda: I was so thrilled to hear that someone was finally telling the story from the parent's point of view instead of the person who is struggling with addiction's point of view.
• 4:07
  Brenda: And I was also happy to hear he has got a stellar cast lined up, which you'll hear about.
• 4:14
  Brenda: I cannot wait for you to hear about Mark, his family story, and especially the film he is currently making called Keep Coming Back.
• 4:23
  Brenda: Here we go.
• 4:39
  Brenda: Mark, welcome to Hope's Dream.
• 4:41
  Brenda: This is a conversation I'm really looking forward to because I have had so much fun So many people say, you should make a movie about your experience.
• 4:51
  Brenda: And now I'm sitting with somebody who has, yes.
• 4:54
  Brenda: So I'm really excited.
• 4:56
  Mark: Oh,
• 4:58
  Brenda: I'll do that separate.
• 4:59
  Brenda: Yeah, I'll, I'll send that to you, but welcome to the podcast.
• 5:02
  Brenda: I'm really happy to have you here.
• 5:04
  Mark: Thank you so much.
• 5:05
  Mark: It's really a pleasure to meet you and to be here.
• 5:08
  Brenda: Whenever I meet a parent, you know, like you, who's been through, I just call it, it in like air quotes there's just an instant understanding and a bond.
• 5:17
  Brenda: Cause I know what you've, I mean, I don't know what the details yet, obviously, but you know, just that sort of a gut level, you've been through a lot of pain.
• 5:25
  Brenda: I've been through a lot of pain and there's something really kind of beautiful about that, where we have a connection that I think most people don't have when you just sort of meet somebody.
• 5:34
  Brenda: So it's kind of nice.
• 5:36
  Mark: Absolutely.
• 5:37
  Mark: No, I mean, I've been struck by that many times, especially in any kind of support group situation.
• 5:44
  Mark: There's kind of an instant camaraderie and we're all in this together.
• 5:49
  Mark: We're all trying to help each other.
• 5:50
  Mark: So it's really great.
• 5:52
  Brenda: It is.
• 5:53
  Brenda: It is.
• 5:54
  Brenda: Let's just hear from you to whatever degree you're comfortable, sort of your daughter's story, because this the film that you've created was born from that.
• 6:02
  Brenda: But if you want to just give us a little bit of, uh, round out the, the picture for us of what your family experienced, and then we'll talk about some other cool stuff.
• 6:11
  Mark: All right.
• 6:12
  Mark: Sure.
• 6:12
  Mark: Yeah.
• 6:14
  Mark: This, uh, started for our family in the early 2010s.
• 6:20
  Mark: I have been a, uh, director I make, uh, feature films and TV movies and TV series, mainly, or a lot of which are in the family space films like A Cinderella Story and the Lizzie McGuire TV series and Life Size with Tyra Banks and Lindsay Lohan.
• 6:42
  Mark: And what's so interesting kind of to me, at least, is that these, I was making all these Films about like these kind of perfect American families, you know, and then I turn around and I go, Whoa, I've got an issue in my own family.
• 6:58
  Mark: So that was kind of striking for me.
• 7:00
  Mark: And, and, uh, and certainly me and my wife when we, you know, started to see some issues with our daughter who was you know, taking drugs way before we even knew it.
• 7:13
  Mark: And then when we did start to know it, it felt.
• 7:16
  Mark: To us or our, our sort of instinctual reaction was, you know, she's 16, she's doing what every teenager does.
• 7:25
  Mark: And yeah, okay.
• 7:26
  Mark: She had a little slip up here.
• 7:28
  Mark: Yeah.
• 7:28
  Mark: Okay.
• 7:29
  Mark: And then it, you know, kind of got worse and we, you know, took her to the ER once or twice to get her stomach pumped and, you know, and, uh, She, you know, every time kind of said, you know, that's it, you know, this is not going to happen anymore.
• 7:46
  Mark: And this, or this was a slip up or whatever.
• 7:50
  Mark: And it wasn't until Somebody suggested us that we have her meet with this guy who worked at a, a rehab facility in L.
• 8:01
  Mark: A.
• 8:02
  Mark: Who we were told kind of gets kids, you know, kind of knows teenagers really well, and we did, and we brought her there, and, you know, we had already been trained.
• 8:13
  Mark: I've seen many therapists and psychiatrists and all this stuff.
• 8:18
  Mark: And so this wasn't new to us.
• 8:20
  Mark: In fact, it felt kind of like really another one.
• 8:23
  Mark: And so we had him meet her and then we just waited in the lobby, my wife and I for, you know, about 20 minutes and then he sends her out and says, Hey guys, can you guys just come in and just want to check in with you?
• 8:37
  Mark: And we went in.
• 8:38
  Mark: There, and he proceeded to tell us what was really going on and which was, you know, she was just taking drugs almost every day and experimenting with some really hard, dangerous drugs.
• 8:51
  Mark: And his recommendation you know, she was, I think 16 at the time was we send her to a rehab right away.
• 8:59
  Mark: And we were like, even then, believe it or not, our denial was so strong, even then it was like, well, I don't know, she kind of exaggerates these all the time, she's probably making up a lot of stuff, and yeah, there's probably stuff going on, but we had had plans at that point to send her to a therapeutic boarding school for, to finish out high school, and so we decided, you know what, we're gonna stick to that plan, and we did that, we sent her to this boarding school, But about two, three months into that, we get a phone call.
• 9:32
  Mark: They're in the emergency room with her and she's okay, but she had downed a bottle of Listerine and to get the alcohol and it that's when it really, I think, hit both of us that, okay, I think what people are telling us is really an issue here.
• 9:49
  Mark: And we immediately sent her.
• 9:51
  Mark: To another, to a rehab in Minnesota.
• 9:55
  Mark: And that was the beginning really of, of our real journey.
• 10:00
  Mark: You know, from there it, it was just filled with, you know, a lot of what might sound like very typical, uh, the typical rollercoaster ride, you know, in and out of many rehabs, uh, and trying sober livings and IOP, which is the intensive outpatient work.
• 10:19
  Mark: For my wife and I for the next sort of two years it was struggling with each one thinking, okay, this is going to work.
• 10:29
  Mark: Okay.
• 10:29
  Mark: They're going to quote fix her and she'll come back all, you know, just perfect and ready to go.
• 10:36
  Mark: And, and it wasn't happening in that way.
• 10:40
  Mark: It was ups and downs.
• 10:42
  Mark: She's better.
• 10:43
  Mark: She's not better.
• 10:44
  Mark: And every time she would have an up, we would have an up and every time she'd be down, we'd be crushed.
• 10:51
  Mark: And, and we were riding right.
• 10:53
  Mark: along the roller coaster with her.
• 10:56
  Mark: So that was kind of the start of it.
• 10:59
  Brenda: Yeah, it's so interesting, isn't it?
• 11:02
  Brenda: How as parents, we can live in that denial, that place of like, well, or we've rationalized it's, you know, they're being kids and I'm sure living in LA and, you know, there's so much going on there.
• 11:16
  Brenda: Not like there isn't everywhere, but I feel like that's even a concentrated, like Petri, Petri dish of craziness sometimes.
• 11:23
  Mark: Yeah.
• 11:24
  Brenda: Yeah.
• 11:24
  Brenda: It's, it's so fascinating how we do that and we convince ourselves that.
• 11:29
  Brenda: Somehow this behavior, which if you looked at it really objectively, you'd be like, that's crazy.
• 11:34
  Brenda: That's completely crazy.
• 11:36
  Brenda: Like, what are they, what are those parents thinking?
• 11:38
  Brenda: But we can't see that in ourselves.
• 11:40
  Brenda: So it's so fascinating.
• 11:42
  Brenda: It makes me feel good.
• 11:42
  Brenda: Every time I hear that from a parent, I'm like, Okay.
• 11:45
  Brenda: I'm not
• 11:46
  Mark: the only one.
• 11:47
  Brenda: I'm not the only one.
• 11:48
  Brenda: I'm curious how, how this impacted your relationship with your wife because it is so difficult and we all come to it with our own internal and historical and family traumas and, and all of that.
• 12:03
  Brenda: What was going on with that?
• 12:06
  Mark: Well first of all, the, both of us were very blindsided by this because neither of us had had any addiction.
• 12:14
  Mark: experiences in our families at all.
• 12:17
  Mark: Now, fortunately for us, and I know, you know, it's not the same way with a lot of couples, but we were basically on the same page.
• 12:26
  Mark: My wife was much better than me at Kind of being the so called bad cop, if, if anything, that was actually one of my, one of the things I needed to look at for me was I had a big problem setting boundaries, you know, other than that, in terms of our relationship, we, though, we very much agreed on what, you know, we kind of we were in denial at the same time, we started to get a, a, a more of a growing awareness at the same time, and we agreed on what We thought was the solutions at the same time.
• 13:04
  Mark: So we, we did really well and and I think complimented each other in certain ways also.
• 13:10
  Mark: So we were lucky in that regard.
• 13:12
  Mark: I mean, we had been in a lot of parent groups where, you know, parents are just on totally on the opposite team.
• 13:18
  Mark: And so we were lucky.
• 13:19
  Brenda: Yeah, that's a, that's a hurdle that just delays, I think, progress even faster because now, now you're dealing with the two adults battling each other and boundaries are so, so hard and I think they're also really misunderstood.
• 13:34
  Brenda: And I'd be curious to hear sort of your perspective now having, I'm sure done a lot of work around this and as a dad, what is it like for you to to set boundaries now, or what was it like when she was really struggling?
• 13:48
  Mark: What happened for me is a couple of years into this journey.
• 13:54
  Mark: We were at yet another parent workshop at yet another rehab.
• 13:59
  Mark: And we were the kind of parents who we were there.
• 14:01
  Mark: We were, you know, doing it all.
• 14:04
  Mark: And, but this one, I, you know, looking back, I sort of feel like I hit my bottom, which was.
• 14:13
  Mark: We were, I remember I was sitting in a, in a group therapy kind of session and therapists had everybody introduce themselves and say, kind of check in, where are you at?
• 14:24
  Mark: You know, and it got to me and I said, you know, I don't want to be here.
• 14:28
  Mark: I don't feel it's any purpose to it.
• 14:31
  Mark: We've been through these things.
• 14:33
  Mark: Nothing's helped.
• 14:34
  Mark: Nothing's changed.
• 14:36
  Mark: I'm hopeless.
• 14:38
  Mark: I just, you know, I'm depressed and, uh, I don't know why any of us are here, you know?
• 14:44
  Mark: So I was really at that, at that low point, low, low point.
• 14:49
  Mark: And but somehow through that, I think, first of all, just getting that off my chest and being willing to admit that, you know, because I think up until that point I was like, no, you know, things are getting better, whatever, I was kind of marching through it.
• 15:02
  Mark: But I was able to admit that and admit it to myself, admit it to others that I was just like, I'm just at a loss now.
• 15:10
  Mark: I'm just don't know what to do and feel hopeless.
• 15:15
  Mark: So I think that was the start of it.
• 15:17
  Mark: And through that, in that workshop, just, you know, Interacting with people and being kind of open like that, something finally hit me, a coin sort of dropped.
• 15:27
  Mark: And it was around a statement that I had heard many, many times and support groups from parents, which is parents have to take care of themselves.
• 15:38
  Mark: So now that simple statement, I always used to.
• 15:42
  Mark: Think of that as like, well, you know, what is it like going to a spa, you know, getting exercise, you know, taking downtime, relaxing.
• 15:51
  Mark: And, and a lot of parents were talking about that.
• 15:54
  Mark: And I felt like.
• 15:55
  Mark: Well, that ain't gonna help.
• 15:57
  Mark: It was at this critical juncture that it finally hit me that taking care of myself meant emotionally and putting myself first.
• 16:09
  Mark: And that's what I was missing.
• 16:10
  Mark: And that's what also helped with the boundaries piece because What I started to realize is that I'm so focused on her.
• 16:19
  Mark: I'm, when she's up, I'm up, when she's down, I'm down.
• 16:22
  Mark: I'm very like codependent in that way.
• 16:25
  Mark: And what about me?
• 16:28
  Mark: You know, here I am kind of like a people pleaser and just always thinking of the other person.
• 16:34
  Mark: What about me?
• 16:35
  Mark: What about my feelings?
• 16:37
  Mark: And they count and I've got to honor them.
• 16:40
  Mark: And that was another reason why I was having a hard time setting boundaries because I felt like if I set a boundary that she hated, she was, I was going to lose her love.
• 16:51
  Mark: Yeah.
• 16:51
  Mark: And not have a daughter anymore.
• 16:53
  Mark: But I realized at that point, wait a second.
• 16:57
  Mark: I've got to look at me first and how am I feeling and what, what do I need?
• 17:04
  Mark: What do I want?
• 17:05
  Mark: And and honor that.
• 17:07
  Mark: And once I was able to start doing that setting boundaries had a whole different tone to it.
• 17:14
  Mark: I, I, you know, I said no.
• 17:16
  Mark: I had to accept that she might freak out.
• 17:19
  Mark: And she probably did.
• 17:21
  Mark: But that started to become okay with me because I realized, wait a second, I'm not freaking out.
• 17:27
  Mark: I don't have to freak out when she freaks out.
• 17:30
  Mark: She, that's her thing is her thing.
• 17:32
  Mark: My wife's thing is her thing.
• 17:34
  Mark: I'm me and I can do and feel what I need to feel.
• 17:38
  Mark: And it was that, you know, what in Al Anon, I think they call it detachment with love, you know, where we finally kind of realize we're separate people and we have to honor ourselves as well as them, but we have to honor ourselves.
• 17:54
  Brenda: Yes.
• 17:55
  Brenda: And I'm so glad that you said that that you had to get to that place for yourself and realize that you are you, you're not your wife, not your daughter.
• 18:03
  Brenda: I'm curious what that What started to shift for you?
• 18:07
  Brenda: Like, how did life feel different as you were now sort of operating from a place of taking care of myself, I can set a boundary.
• 18:18
  Brenda: How did that feel like?
• 18:19
  Brenda: What, what things happened?
• 18:22
  Mark: Well I'll tell you my anxiety went way down.
• 18:25
  Mark: You know, my anxiety level until that point was, you know, high and you know, every time the phone would ring every, you know, every time I was dealing with anything in that to do with that situation, you know, I was filled with, Oh, what are they going to think?
• 18:40
  Mark: What is she going to do?
• 18:41
  Mark: What, you know, all that.
• 18:43
  Mark: And now it was like, Oh, you know, checking in with me, Oh, I'm okay with this.
• 18:50
  Mark: I decide the whole.
• 18:51
  Mark: World, everyone else might crumble, but I'm okay.
• 18:54
  Mark: I'm feeling okay.
• 18:55
  Mark: And so it really brought my anxiety down and I started to, you know, actually get real serenity.
• 19:05
  Mark: You know, I would, and I showed up differently at the.
• 19:08
  Mark: These parents support group meetings when I would share and people would say, Mark, you're, you're really like calm and doing really well.
• 19:17
  Mark: And, and I was like, yeah, I, it's just kind of like, I saw the light that she could be on this wild roller coaster.
• 19:26
  Mark: And that wasn't me.
• 19:28
  Mark: And I was okay, and I'm gonna be okay, and I'm gonna do my best to help her, but I'm gonna be okay.
• 19:36
  Mark: And that just gave me a lot of serenity and, and, and just, you know, and, you know, just calmness and decreased my anxiety.
• 19:44
  Brenda: What a gift to her too, right?
• 19:46
  Brenda: Because she needed a dad who was solid and steady and regulated and not freaking out.
• 19:53
  Brenda: Like, I always try to make the If your kids on this crazy roller coaster ride and they have you right next to them in the seat and they're yanking you around with them, you can't be helpful to them.
• 20:05
  Brenda: So you have to get off the ride.
• 20:09
  Brenda: So thank you for sharing that.
• 20:11
  Brenda: The other thing that you said that I think is really important to call out in the chat is, And kind of the Allen on world when, when we hear detached with love, some people, I think, take that the wrong way.
• 20:22
  Brenda: And that they think there's like this physical detachment and like, you've detached from loving your daughter and she's on her own and good luck.
• 20:30
  Brenda: And I, I imagine that's not what it was.
• 20:33
  Brenda: When I think of that, I think of what you talked about, like unveil crowing your emotions from her emotions and being able to be there and be steady for her and not be whipped around at her request.
• 20:46
  Brenda: And all of that.
• 20:46
  Brenda: Is that what that means?
• 20:48
  Mark: Absolutely.
• 20:49
  Mark: I like that D Velcroing.
• 20:51
  Mark: That's a great image.
• 20:52
  Mark: Yeah, that's exactly what it is.
• 20:54
  Mark: You're still, and I was still completely dedicated to helping and being a helpful parent.
• 21:01
  Mark: But part of that is setting boundaries.
• 21:04
  Mark: Like you talk about how, yeah, she, she needed a dad who was Calm and not thrown around, but also she needed an honest dad and a dad who would say no When you know she wanted some wild thing or whatever Maybe she didn't like it in the moment to hear no, but that's what She really needed.
• 21:28
  Mark: But yeah, I know some people hear detachment and they, you know, they think, Oh my God, I could never do that.
• 21:34
  Mark: You know, why are you asking me to do that?
• 21:37
  Mark: But it's, it's, it's important and it's very loving.
• 21:40
  Mark: It doesn't mean slamming the door and turning your back.
• 21:44
  Brenda: We have a, an online community and we have a membership for dads and a membership for moms, and we have a very difficult time getting dads.
• 21:53
  Brenda: to come in and get support.
• 21:55
  Brenda: What was it like for you?
• 21:57
  Brenda: And I'd be curious of any specific either like messages that resonated with you as a dad, because I think we do a pretty good job talking to moms, uh, just as not us, just as HopeStream, but just in general, I think there's a lot of kind of therapeutic talk that happens with moms and maybe less so with dads.
• 22:16
  Brenda: So what was it like to go through this as a dad?
• 22:20
  Mark: It is.
• 22:20
  Mark: Yeah, it's a really, it's an interesting topic.
• 22:23
  Mark: I mean, certainly I saw it in Al Anon meetings and in the, this other parent support group.
• 22:29
  Mark: In fact, my wife and I were one of the few actual couples that, you know, were going together a lot.
• 22:34
  Mark: And then we also went separately to different things.
• 22:38
  Mark: You know, it's funny, I tried, because a lot of people said, try a men's group.
• 22:41
  Mark: This would be an Alan on group and I did that and I gotta say, uh, I preferred the kind of mixed group, you know, women are great.
• 22:52
  Mark: They're, they're great at talking.
• 22:54
  Mark: They're great at their feelings at, at, at comforting.
• 22:59
  Mark: And I, I, it's just odd to say, but I don't get that same thing from other guys.
• 23:05
  Mark: And I just felt.
• 23:06
  Mark: More listened to, more comforted and easier almost to talk to women than I did with guys.
• 23:15
  Mark: Guys have, you know, other things going on and other walls and things that I have as well.
• 23:22
  Mark: So I don't know.
• 23:22
  Mark: That's kind of what resonated for me.
• 23:24
  Brenda: I'm always curious about that because I do hear that we, we process things different and, or differently, and that.
• 23:33
  Brenda: Men really do struggle so much and I feel like they struggle alone a lot in this if they don't find a good group that they can go to, right?
• 23:40
  Brenda: They can just be so isolated in this.
• 23:43
  Brenda: Really like frightening experience with their kids.
• 23:47
  Brenda: Yeah.
• 23:47
  Brenda: And that, that just breaks my heart.
• 23:48
  Brenda: But
• 23:50
  Mark: yeah.
• 23:50
  Brenda: So she, I assume, because I know a little bit towards the end of the story that she's doing well today, so something stuck with her.
• 23:59
  Brenda: What, what was that change for her?
• 24:02
  Mark: A number of factors helped with that.
• 24:04
  Mark: From the moment that I started to change and then my wife started to change, so certainly the fact that I was calmer, I was saying no, I was setting boundaries, my wife was also changing in other ways that certainly opened a space for our daughter to You know kind of face her own recovery and being being able to really deal with that she did go to a long term Treatment place it was about 14 months And I think that was helpful in that these kind of 30 60 90 day places.
• 24:43
  Mark: It's just not enough time to kind of Rewire the brain from all the drugs So that was helpful.
• 24:51
  Mark: And we were working with a consultant who, which was great because, you know, once they get over 18, you know, from 18 below, they're like these educational consultants who help you find a college and stuff.
• 25:05
  Mark: And they can also help with that.
• 25:07
  Mark: Once they cross 18, you're kind of on your own.
• 25:10
  Mark: And, uh, my wife found this great Uh, addiction specialist consultant, a guy named Sam Dresser, who has a company called Clear Consulting, and he was fantastic.
• 25:22
  Mark: He, you know, he really knew the, the, this whole world and where would be, what would be the right fit for her, not just a great treatment center, but the right treatment center for what she needed.
• 25:35
  Mark: Yeah.
• 25:36
  Mark: And.
• 25:37
  Mark: He was able to speak our language, he's a parent, speak her language, he's in recovery, and and so him and his colleagues, they were great.
• 25:47
  Mark: And then she was maturing, you know, she was now 20, 21, then 22, and you know, they have another saying, keep them alive to their 25, when the frontal cortex kind of matures.
• 26:01
  Mark: Yeah, absolutely.
• 26:01
  Mark: And I would say certainly she started to mature and was able to let these messages all come in.
• 26:08
  Mark: So that, I think, I think it was all those things and she was doing a lot of work and you know, she, she, uh, when she got to be like 21 or so, she started to actually ask to go to therapy, you know, would you support this to go to, to, to rehab?
• 26:25
  Mark: And so she was starting to see the benefit of it.
• 26:29
  Mark: And then, you know, I think the combination of all that, it, it, it stuck and she was around 22 when she, you know, finally went to kind of the last sort of the rehabs and then into the sober living and was there and doing really well and started to work part time and, In fact, working with animals.
• 26:49
  Mark: I see you got a dog behind you.
• 26:50
  Mark: She's actually, she's a dog trainer now, uh, because she loved working at these kennels so much.
• 26:57
  Mark: She turned it into a career.
• 26:59
  Mark: And so she's doing that.
• 27:00
  Mark: And and so she's now five years, over five years sober, she's doing great and she's getting married this summer.
• 27:09
  Mark: So, and we're really excited by that.
• 27:11
  Mark: And then her fiance is fantastic.
• 27:13
  Mark: And so, yeah
• 27:15
  Brenda: It is a Cinderella story.
• 27:18
  Brenda: You've come full circle.
• 27:19
  Brenda: Yeah, I sure have.
• 27:21
  Brenda: Yeah, that's
• 27:21
  Mark: true.
• 27:30
  Brenda: Hi, I'm taking a quick break to let you know some exciting news.
• 27:33
  Brenda: There are now two private online communities for supporting you through this experience with your child or children.
• 27:39
  Brenda: The stream community for those who identify as moms and the woods for guys who identify as dads.
• 27:45
  Brenda: Of course, this includes step parents and anyone who is caring for a young person who struggles with substance use and mental health.
• 27:53
  Brenda: The stream and the woods exists completely outside of all social media.
• 27:57
  Brenda: So you never have to worry about confidentiality and they're also ad free.
• 28:01
  Brenda: So when you're there, you'll be able to focus on learning the latest evidence based approaches to helping people change their relationship with drugs and alcohol in both communities.
• 28:12
  Brenda: We have a positive focus without triggering content or conversations, and we help you learn to be an active participant in helping your child move towards healthier choices.
• 28:23
  Brenda: You'll also experience the relief of just being able to be real.
• 28:26
  Brenda: Connect with other parents who know fully what you're going through and have battle tested mentors alongside.
• 28:32
  Brenda: You can check out both The Stream and The Woods for free before committing, so there's no risk.
• 28:38
  Brenda: Go to hopestreamcommunity.
• 28:39
  Brenda: org to get all the details and become a member.
• 28:43
  Brenda: Okay, let's get back to the show.
• 28:55
  Brenda: So you have these two worlds, right?
• 28:57
  Brenda: You've got Your work world.
• 29:00
  Brenda: Then you've got this like movie worthy experience happening at home.
• 29:05
  Brenda: When did you start to think about, I have a story to tell here?
• 29:10
  Mark: Yeah.
• 29:10
  Mark: I.
• 29:11
  Mark: You know, when she, when sobriety started to take hold for her and I was catching my breath and kind of getting back to really focusing on things, I knew that this was such an impactful journey that I really wanted to make a movie about it, but I didn't know what the focus was.
• 29:31
  Mark: In fact, at first, my first ideas were.
• 29:36
  Mark: You know, like what most addiction movies are about, the addict.
• 29:40
  Mark: And, uh, then she was the main character.
• 29:43
  Mark: And I had some interesting ideas, but then I felt, God, I don't know, you know, we've, we've seen this before many times and it just didn't feel right.
• 29:53
  Mark: That original and in certain ways and then it dawned on me.
• 29:57
  Mark: I said, wait a second.
• 29:58
  Mark: I'm like looking at myself in the mirror going, wait a second.
• 30:02
  Mark: What I went through is actually a really interesting experience and the kind of Arc that I went through, the growth that I went through is what you want out of a main character.
• 30:14
  Mark: That's kind of, you know, one of the hallmarks of a great main characters.
• 30:17
  Mark: They start in one way, and then they, through this whole experience, they come out with all this growth.
• 30:23
  Mark: And I realized that had happened to me.
• 30:26
  Mark: And not only that, that this had never been done before.
• 30:29
  Mark: Nobody had ever made a, at least a narrative, a fictional film about.
• 30:35
  Mark: The parents and about the journey that they go through, especially with this great hopeful message, which is when the parents start to change that can often lead to change happening with their with their loved one.
• 30:51
  Mark: And so, you know, And I decided that's it, that's the story and I came up with kind of how to, how to plot it out and I wrote the script and, you know, one of the first people that I sent it to was, uh, Sam, our, our addiction consultant.
• 31:06
  Mark: And he was like, Oh my God, finally, somebody's doing a movie about the parents.
• 31:11
  Mark: Wow.
• 31:12
  Mark: And, you know, and then he started to talk to other people in that industry.
• 31:18
  Mark: You know, got a lot of support from people and it's really just been building from that point.
• 31:24
  Mark: It's we're now in kind of the, the fundraising and, uh, sort of development aspect of, of the making of the project.
• 31:33
  Mark: I've got a lot of really, Great people who have jumped on board to this.
• 31:37
  Mark: Uh, I decided in the script, I decided to set it in Utah and a nutshell.
• 31:43
  Mark: What the story is about is a mid forties widowed father.
• 31:48
  Mark: I, I decided I wanted to focus on one parent.
• 31:51
  Mark: I didn't want that dynamic.
• 31:53
  Mark: I wanted to see the growth of one parent.
• 31:56
  Mark: So he's a widowed father.
• 31:58
  Mark: The mother had died five years ago.
• 32:00
  Mark: He has a 17 year old who's doing great in school up until about a year ago before the story starts.
• 32:07
  Mark: But when the story starts, he's like directing a little sort of a kid show, which was a little bit based on, uh, Lizzie McGuire.
• 32:14
  Mark: My experience is there.
• 32:16
  Mark: And he realizes his daughter is You know, doing some major drug abuse and Jai, in fact, had that scene I described where he brings her to, uh, this, uh, doc, this therapist who then has him, has the father come in and, and says all those things, you know, she's doing drugs like every day, all this stuff.
• 32:38
  Mark: And so in the movie, he sends her to a rehab in Utah and thinks.
• 32:43
  Mark: that this is great.
• 32:44
  Mark: 30 days later, she's going to come home all fixed.
• 32:47
  Mark: This is wonderful.
• 32:48
  Mark: But then he gets a call from them the next day once they have her and they say, well, you haven't signed up for the parent workshop.
• 32:56
  Mark: We have this four day parent workshop.
• 32:58
  Mark: And, and, uh, by the way, if you don't come at least one parent needs to come or else we'll send your daughter back to you because we feel so strongly that.
• 33:10
  Mark: This is how we're going to help you guys and it, and he actually hangs up on her.
• 33:14
  Mark: He said, that's your rule of like, forget it.
• 33:16
  Mark: I'm too busy.
• 33:17
  Mark: And by the way, isn't it your job to fix her?
• 33:20
  Mark: Why do you need me there?
• 33:22
  Mark: But then he realizes, you know, he kind of doesn't have a choice.
• 33:25
  Mark: He's got to do this.
• 33:27
  Mark: And he goes to this beautiful lodge nestled in the, in the woods.
• 33:32
  Mark: It's sort of modeled, uh, physically over a place called Cirque Lodge in, uh, Utah, which is a wonderful place.
• 33:40
  Mark: And yeah, and it's gorgeous.
• 33:42
  Mark: And so he goes there and really most of the movie happens right around in the mountains and in that lodge where he joins a pair of parent workshop led by this very dynamic woman in her 60s and picture Jamie Lee Curtis and Jamie, if you hear me, I'm, I'm here with a script for you.
• 34:00
  Mark: And you know, a dynamic woman who's in recovery herself and Also has, uh, had a, had a same experience with her own son going through this.
• 34:11
  Mark: So she really gets it and she's really smart and witty and funny, and she kind of understands and is able to push parents buttons and kind of knows.
• 34:21
  Mark: What they're all dealing with.
• 34:23
  Mark: And so the, a lot of the film happens there and it's not just a talking film.
• 34:27
  Mark: The, the woman who runs it is really into experiential therapy where they get out into the woods and they do all these interesting things.
• 34:35
  Mark: And basically we see through the course of the film, he goes from in denial to finally acceptance and realizing his part.
• 34:47
  Mark: And, and it, and it's very emotional and, and also it's humorous, you know, that's the other thing I, you don't see much in, in films about addiction.
• 34:57
  Mark: But I think it's really important that first of all, it's very truthful.
• 35:01
  Mark: I mean, I, I've been sitting many groups where we just bust out laughing at how silly we are, you know like we did that.
• 35:09
  Mark: I can't believe it.
• 35:10
  Mark: You know, you fell for that.
• 35:12
  Mark: Yeah.
• 35:12
  Mark: And so, you know, Hugh and humor is always a nice.
• 35:16
  Mark: Way to have a message go down, you know?
• 35:19
  Mark: So it's not always just, you know, here's the message.
• 35:22
  Mark: And it's very emotional and powerful.
• 35:24
  Mark: And it's called keep coming back the movie, which is a phrase you hear in, in, in the Allen on an AA world.
• 35:32
  Mark: And and it has a lot of meeting meanings, I think in the, in the AA world, it's really when newcomers come into a, for the first time and they share, everyone at the end says, keep coming back.
• 35:47
  Mark: And if you work it, it's worth it.
• 35:50
  Mark: And, or it's worth it if you work it.
• 35:51
  Mark: And so that it has certainly that meaning that you kind of have to keep Working on yourself and on, on, on life.
• 35:59
  Mark: And it's about resilience and and it's about hope.
• 36:03
  Mark: So we're going to shoot it in Utah.
• 36:05
  Mark: The film is very pro Utah and, uh, you know, Salt Lake is, they've done many, many movies there.
• 36:11
  Mark: It's a great hub for making movies.
• 36:14
  Mark: And we have these great.
• 36:15
  Mark: People associated with the movie we have, uh, Amy Redford, who's Robert Redford's daughter, who's a producer and director and lives in Salt Lake, and a woman named Geraldine Dreyfuss, who's made all these amazing movies, like Navalny, and, and Won't You Be My Neighbor, and Uh, Truffle Hunters and Invisible War and Born into Brothels, some, some of them Academy Award winning movies and a producer named David Wolfe, who all these people are in Salt Lake and they're like huge filmmakers.
• 36:49
  Mark: And so we're really getting it together now.
• 36:53
  Brenda: Amazing.
• 36:54
  Brenda: Somebody is finally doing it.
• 36:56
  Brenda: You are going to have A lot, at least a lot of our parents in Hopestream are going to be the first ones to see it for sure.
• 37:03
  Brenda: But what really comes to mind for me when I hear you talking about this is, I almost get a little bit like, like a little sense of pride, like, you know, I think we as parents get really beaten down through this experience.
• 37:19
  Brenda: And because there's so much stigma around it, we can kind of start to walk with our heads down and feel a little battered and feel a little embarrassed and like, yeah, that's, yeah, the police ripped my house again.
• 37:30
  Brenda: And, you know, it can just be exhausting.
• 37:33
  Brenda: And I think we get just associated with a really negative vibe overall around this.
• 37:42
  Brenda: You know, even when I go to book retreat places for our parents, I'm always a little nervous to say.
• 37:48
  Brenda: Yeah, we're a group of moms who have kids struggling with addiction because I'm like they're probably gonna say no I don't want you know, Airbnb is gonna be like no, we don't want you there So what this when you were talking about it and having these great people involved it kind of gave me a little sense of pride Like yeah, that's something I went through and somebody's finally giving it the respect it deserves Because yes, the kids go through a lot and like you said that movie has been made many times and they're amazing movies You And yet.
• 38:19
  Brenda: us, the people who are there supporting them and, you know, going through all this, we just haven't been represented.
• 38:26
  Brenda: So thank you for, for doing that for us.
• 38:29
  Brenda: I just feel a little like, you know, like, yes.
• 38:34
  Mark: Yeah.
• 38:34
  Mark: And, and, you know, when they often, when parents are represented, they're either just kind of crying basically, and, and, and in grief and feeling helpless and, or they're just really pissed off and.
• 38:48
  Mark: You know, kicking their kids out and not talking to them and all that.
• 38:53
  Mark: And what's never really been shown is.
• 38:57
  Mark: Maybe some work that the parents need to do, both positive and dealing with some of maybe the more negative behaviors that might not be helping, you know totally unintentionally, but they're not really helping the situation.
• 39:11
  Mark: And so that's what really hasn't been to do.
• 39:13
  Mark: Depicted and I, and I thank you so much for saying that because I think parents do need a shout out that Hey, you know, even if you're, you know, contributing to the situation, you can change and it's going to make you feel good and it's going to A
• 39:32
  Brenda: hundred percent.
• 39:33
  Brenda: That is, it's so true.
• 39:34
  Brenda: And I think it might even give people, obviously, you know, it's not made yet, but I could imagine that it could even be helpful for parents to see, because sometimes we get this like, Oh, you need to do your work.
• 39:45
  Brenda: Oh, just go do your work.
• 39:46
  Brenda: But you're like, Oh, What's the work?
• 39:49
  Brenda: What?
• 39:50
  Brenda: Somebody please tell me, like, what is the work?
• 39:52
  Brenda: So I'm guessing that that could even be helpful for a parent who's willing now, right?
• 39:57
  Brenda: Maybe they've crossed over into the willing zone, but they're like, I just, I really don't know what to do.
• 40:03
  Brenda: So that's amazing.
• 40:05
  Mark: Right.
• 40:05
  Mark: Well, you know, narrative storytelling is a great.
• 40:09
  Mark: way to, to impart, you know, wisdom and messages because you're not, it's not just somebody standing at a blackboard.
• 40:18
  Mark: It's, you know, seeing how it unfolds in a very human way that we can resonate with and relate to.
• 40:25
  Mark: And that's why it's so effective.
• 40:27
  Brenda: Yeah.
• 40:28
  Brenda: How does your daughter feel about all of this?
• 40:31
  Mark: Yeah, she, I, you know, I gotta say, I, uh, was nervous about.
• 40:36
  Mark: Showing her the script and I really waited and waited and she knew I was writing something and I finally showed it to her and she loved it, she thought this is great, you know, and, you know, and she, the, just the way I depicted everything and and she recognized certainly some moments that, uh, where those came from but it is, you know, As I say, loosely based.
• 41:01
  Mark: I mean, you know, I'm, I've been happily married for over 30 years, not a widower and not everything that has that, that the girl goes through in the movie, uh, our daughter experience, but it's you know, certainly he's got.
• 41:16
  Mark: Oh, you know, a lot of things that I experienced.
• 41:20
  Brenda: Yeah.
• 41:21
  Brenda: What was it like trying, because I know all of the situations that our kids get themselves and us into along this rollercoaster ride.
• 41:30
  Brenda: I'm trying to imagine what that was, what it was like to try and portray that in a script so that people could really feel and understand.
• 41:40
  Brenda: What that, what that dad's going through.
• 41:42
  Brenda: Like how do you do that?
• 41:46
  Brenda: ?
• 41:46
  Brenda: Mark: Yeah.
• 41:46
  Brenda: It's, you have to find ways to.
• 41:48
  Brenda: You know, make it more than just dialogue and people just talking about it, you know, so fortunately I had been through a number of these parent workshops and we did a lot of really like interesting things.
• 42:01
  Brenda: And so I, I was able to kind of draw on some of those things and then just some of the, you know, my imagination where, where I think this would have been.
• 42:11
  Brenda: Something really interesting to do and and then having a great setting, like being in the mountains in Utah is very helpful.
• 42:19
  Brenda: And I really take advantage of that with certain scenes.
• 42:23
  Brenda: But it's really, you know, getting into the, the emotional issues for each character, what each character's arc is, you know, cause he's not the only one who, who experiences some growth.
• 42:36
  Brenda: And then Kind of building a situation to push on those, tho those issues so that each person is facing these conflicts that we see actually unfold in front of us.
• 42:50
  Brenda: So it's a bit of a challenge, but it's also very therapeutic.
• 42:54
  Brenda: I mean to, you know, that's the other way to look at it.
• 42:56
  Brenda: Here.
• 42:56
  Brenda: I get got a chance through draft, after draft to really dig in and explore these emotions.
• 43:03
  Brenda: So that was beneficial for me.
• 43:06
  Brenda: That's very cool.
• 43:07
  Brenda: I can imagine that every parent who's been through this themselves is going to want to see it, but who else is it, is the film for?
• 43:15
  Brenda: Yeah.
• 43:16
  Mark: Yeah.
• 43:16
  Mark: And I, I don't see this as the only audience being people have been touched by addiction because it's a universal family story.
• 43:25
  Mark: I mean, facing how codependent we are with our kids, regardless of addiction comes up.
• 43:31
  Mark: And when, when do our.
• 43:33
  Mark: Kids, you know, when do we kind of let go and let them develop into the people that they really are?
• 43:40
  Mark: When do we let our expectations down and, and say, you know what?
• 43:44
  Mark: That's our own thing.
• 43:46
  Mark: They, they're, they are their own person.
• 43:48
  Mark: That's universal.
• 43:50
  Mark: And a lot of the themes are very universal.
• 43:52
  Mark: And I just think anybody who is interested in family and drama and emotion and stories they're going to really find something in this movie.
• 44:03
  Brenda: Well, I cannot wait to hear how it goes.
• 44:07
  Brenda: And yeah, Utah's we, we host our retreats in park city, just outside of park city.
• 44:12
  Brenda: And if you haven't been, you can't imagine how gorgeous it is.
• 44:16
  Brenda: It's.
• 44:17
  Brenda: Such a special place.
• 44:18
  Brenda: So I can imagine a beautiful, beautiful setting for your film.
• 44:23
  Brenda: Thank you so much for doing this and for, for just talking about that experience as a father.
• 44:29
  Brenda: I think we don't hear from enough dads, so I'm very appreciative for you to share your experience there.
• 44:35
  Brenda: And and thanks for, you know, giving us a little pep in our step as parents.
• 44:41
  Brenda: Like we, we matter.
• 44:43
  Brenda: We, we, we've been through a lot.
• 44:46
  Mark: Well, that's certainly the goal of the film.
• 44:48
  Mark: And you know, I want to say to your listeners, if anybody's interested in finding out more about the film, we are, uh, fortunately able to get both donations that are, can be written off as charitable donations.
• 45:03
  Mark: We have a fiscal sponsor that allows us, that gives us like that 501 3C to be able to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, Designation.
• 45:11
  Mark: And also we are, have investors as well because and I just found this out, I don't know, about a year ago that a for profit film can do both.
• 45:21
  Mark: You can have a fiscal sponsor, but it has a social impact to it, which this film certainly does.
• 45:27
  Mark: People can donate to it.
• 45:28
  Mark: And, uh, we can also do investments.
• 45:31
  Mark: So if anybody's interested, can I plug the website?
• 45:35
  Mark: Yeah.
• 45:35
  Mark: So the you can find out more about the film.
• 45:37
  Mark: The website is At Keep coming back, film.com.
• 45:42
  Mark: So it's just the name, keep Coming back, film.
• 45:45
  Mark: And then you can also email me directly if you wanna get in touch and say hi or find out more.
• 45:52
  Mark: And that's keep coming back.
• 45:53
  Mark: movie@gmail.com.
• 45:56
  Brenda: I'll put those in the show notes as well, so if people are out and about, not able to get them, but we'll make sure and get links in the show notes to those so that people can check it out and we can't wait to see it.
• 46:07
  Brenda: So thank you so much.
• 46:09
  Mark: Well, well, thank you, Brenda.
• 46:11
  Mark: This has been really fun to do, and I'm so glad you're doing this.
• 46:16
  Brenda: Okay, my friend, that is a wrap for today.
• 46:18
  Brenda: Don't forget to download the new ebook, Worried Sick.
• 46:22
  Brenda: It's totally free, and it will shed so much light on positive tools and strategies you can use right now to start creating those positive conditions for change in your home and in your relationships.
• 46:33
  Brenda: It is at HopeStreamCommunity.
• 46:36
  Brenda: org forward slash worried.
• 46:39
  Brenda: And guess what?
• 46:40
  Brenda: We have moved the entire podcast to our website at HopeStreamCommunity.
• 46:45
  Brenda: org.
• 46:46
  Brenda: So now when you want the show notes or resources, or if you want to download a transcript, just go to HopeStreamCommunity.
• 46:53
  Brenda: org and click on podcast and you will find it all there.
• 46:57
  Brenda: You can search by keyword, episode number, guest name.
• 47:00
  Brenda: And we have created playlists for you, makes it much easier to find episodes grouped by topic.
• 47:06
  Brenda: So we're really excited to have that done and hope you like the podcast's new home.
• 47:12
  Brenda: Please be extraordinarily good to yourself today.
• 47:15
  Brenda: Take a deep breath.
• 47:17
  Brenda: You've got this and you are going to be okay.
• 47:20
  Brenda: You're not doing it alone.
• 47:22
  Brenda: I will meet you right back here next week.