Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / BOMBSHELL LINKS VEGAS BOMBER, NOLA TERRORIST, HUNT FOR ACCOMPLICES

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BOMBSHELL LINKS VEGAS BOMBER, NOLA TERRORIST, HUNT FOR ACCOMPLICES · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: Metaglasses, a car sharing app newly discovered overlapping stints at
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: Fort Bragg now Fort Liberty. An evil isis flag, one
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: dead being Dad and one elite former Green Beret, all
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: part of two deadly attacks here in the US. Are
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: they connected at this hour? The FEDS on the hunt
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: for potential accomplices. I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories.
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: Thank you for being with US authorities. Investigator potential link
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: between two suspected terror attacks on you Year's Day in
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: New Orleans and Las Vegas? Are the two attacks connected
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: at this hour?
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: We are learning there is an overlap of the.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: Two attackers at Fort Bragg now Fort Liberty. How did
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: nobody know that both served in the US Armies, both
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: deployed to Afghanistan, both stationed.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: At Bragg aka Liberty.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: Explosives found at both crime scenes, rental cars both from
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: the Touro car sharing app, and the attacks were just
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: a few hours apart.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: Let's start with Vegas.
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  Speaker 3: Listen at eight forty am Las Vegas time, we received
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: a report of an explosion and a fire at the
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  Speaker 3: Trump Towers, the iconic hotel that you see behind me.
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: We were told that a twenty twenty four cyber truck
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: pulled up to the front of the hotel, and in fact,
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  Speaker 3: I can tell you it pulled right up to the
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: glass entrance doors of the hotel. We saw that smoke
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: start showing from the vehicle and then a large explosion
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: from the occurs.
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: That cyber truck managed to contain a lot of the
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: explosion in front of the Trump Hotel.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: Is that a message? How could it not be a message?
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: Take a look at video we have obtained of the explosion,
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: and then we learn across the country just hours earlier
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  Speaker 2: to Bourbon Street today.
• 2:26
  Speaker 4: At approximately three fifteen am Central Standard time, an individual
• 2:30
  Speaker 4: drove a pickup truck into a crowd on Bourbon Street
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  Speaker 4: in New Orleans, killing at least ten individuals.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: And injuring dozens more.
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  Speaker 4: After hitting the crowd, the exit of the vehicle and
• 2:43
  Speaker 4: fired upon local law enforcement. Law enforcement returned finally, and
• 2:47
  Speaker 4: the subject was pronounced ceased at the scene. Two law
• 2:51
  Speaker 4: enforcement officers were injured and transported to local hospitals.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: Many are espousing that there is no connection between the two,
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  Speaker 2: even though recently newly discovered evidence shows the two attackers
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  Speaker 2: did have an overlapping stint at Brag.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: But what else Take a listen to Sheriff Kevin mcmahel.
• 3:14
  Speaker 5: There are a number of things in this case that
• 3:17
  Speaker 5: are similar to the attack in New Orleans. We do
• 3:20
  Speaker 5: know that our subject here served in the military. In fact,
• 3:24
  Speaker 5: he's a current member of the military. Both of the
• 3:27
  Speaker 5: subjects served at Fort Bragg, North Carolina. What we do
• 3:31
  Speaker 5: know about that is it's a very large military base,
• 3:34
  Speaker 5: and we have no record that they served in the
• 3:36
  Speaker 5: same unit or even at the same years at Fort Bragg,
• 3:40
  Speaker 5: something that continues to remain under investigation. I also know
• 3:44
  Speaker 5: that they both served in Afghanistan in two thousand and nine.
• 3:49
  Speaker 5: We don't have any evidence that they were in the
• 3:51
  Speaker 5: same province in Afghanistan, the same location, or the same unit, again,
• 3:56
  Speaker 5: something else that remains under investigation. And we also know,
• 4:00
  Speaker 5: of course that they both used the rental company Turo
• 4:04
  Speaker 5: to rent their vehicles.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: How does this all fit together.
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  Speaker 2: You've got one elite former Green Beret and you've got
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: one dead beat dad that apparently had been radicalized.
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: To hateful extremist views. How is this happening under our noses?
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: And again, are they connected and are their accomplices the
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: FEDS on the manhunt for accomplices. As we go to
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: air straight out to an all star panel joining me,
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: but first to Dave Moyer, former Navy Bomb Disposal Master technician,
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: program manager Military Contracts K nine Tracker. It goes on
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: and on. Dave Moyer, thank you for being with us.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: I'm concerned. How does one manage to have a mortar?
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: A mortar morta R in your car? When I think
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: of a order, I think of a bomb, for instance
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  Speaker 2: in Afghanistan.
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  Speaker 1: How do you get a mortar? What is it? Help me?
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  Speaker 6: Dave, yes, ma'am. And what they're referring to is a
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  Speaker 6: mortar style of firework, which is commonly you can you
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  Speaker 6: can buy it at any of the firework stores as
• 5:18
  Speaker 6: wherever they are legal for their size, they're usually a
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  Speaker 6: larger firework commonly made in China and some other countries
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  Speaker 6: and then important to the US, what these mortars do
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  Speaker 6: is it's just an exploding device that is loaded inside
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  Speaker 6: a compressed cardboard two which is referred to as a
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  Speaker 6: mortar too. When it initiates, it allows that firework to
• 5:40
  Speaker 6: launch itself up into the sky and create those those
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  Speaker 6: really big pyrotechnic displays. That everybody likes to see on
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  Speaker 6: the holidays. So these are very common to find out
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  Speaker 6: at any of your firework stores in whichever states that
• 5:53
  Speaker 6: they these large devices are legal. They're generally quite a
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  Speaker 6: bit larger than your common bottle rockets or m ads
• 5:59
  Speaker 6: or other little snapbangs that people remember from their childhood too.
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: Doctor Kendall Crown's joining me now, Chief Medical Examiner, Terran County.
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: That's Fort Worth, a steam lecturer at the Burnett School
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: of Medicine at TCU. Doctor Kendall Crowns, in all of
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  Speaker 2: your years, you have managed to obtain and hold on
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  Speaker 2: to mortars.
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  Speaker 1: Could you please show usn't explain.
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  Speaker 7: Certainly as was described. They're usually cardboard tubes or fiberglass
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  Speaker 7: tubes or plastic tubes, but they the mortars are fairly
• 6:28
  Speaker 7: good size. You put a shell in him that's wrapped
• 6:32
  Speaker 7: in cardboard that drops in and then fires out, which
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  Speaker 7: shoots the pyrotechnic display they usually have about this similar
• 6:41
  Speaker 7: gunpowder is a shotgun round and people often will have
• 6:45
  Speaker 7: accidents with these, and that's why they come into our office.
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  Speaker 7: They usually blow their heads off.
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  Speaker 2: Now I had mentioned that Littlsburger was a former Green Beret.
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  Speaker 1: I say former only because he's dead. He was an active.
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  Speaker 2: Green Beret who happened to be on leave at the
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: time his attack took place.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: Look at this guy.
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  Speaker 2: This looks like a guy you might pass at Target
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  Speaker 2: or Walmart, a guy you might see next to you
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  Speaker 2: at the red light, who knew he had a deadly intent.
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: You know what, We're sideeshicked with the mortars. Let's take
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: it from the top. Joining me, Harmonia Rodriguez, chief US
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: reporter with the Dailymail dot com, Harmania, take a listen
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: to this.
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  Speaker 8: Hours into the New year, Bourbon Street in New Orleans
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  Speaker 8: is crowded with partiers. At three point fifteen am, a
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  Speaker 8: white electric Ford pickup truck drives around a police squad
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  Speaker 8: car safety barricade, barreling through the revelers. Fourteen or killed,
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  Speaker 8: dozens wounded. After coming to a stop, the driver gets
• 7:48
  Speaker 8: out of the crash truck, wearing a helmet and ballistic vest.
• 7:51
  Speaker 8: Armed with an ar ten, he fires at police. Two
• 7:54
  Speaker 8: officers are wounded.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: This guy had been planning this attack for some time,
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  Speaker 2: including previous trips to New Orleans, where he had taste
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: out with metaglasses while driving a bicycle. You know, very
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: surreptitiously videoing what would soon be his target. Look at
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  Speaker 2: this just recently, Harmonia, I walk these streets with my children,
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: going up and down Bourbon Street, really taking it all in.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: And Harmonia, we cannot ignore the fact that the two
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  Speaker 2: targets are bastions of US culture. You've got Vegas, and
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: you've got New Orleans. That's right up there with New
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: York and Washington, Boston, Atlanta, the big cities that really
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: across the world anyway typify the US. Yes, let's talk
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: about the New Orleans attack first.
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  Speaker 1: What do we know, Harmonia, Yeah, Ansy.
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  Speaker 9: As you said, Bourbon Street is one of the most
• 9:11
  Speaker 9: popular destinations for New Year's Eve around the world. So
• 9:15
  Speaker 9: now we know that the terrors Jabbar had staked out
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  Speaker 9: this area a while ago, using these meda glasses and
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  Speaker 9: completely going down the same route that he ended up
• 9:27
  Speaker 9: going down with the truck as he flew this isis flag.
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  Speaker 9: Now we're also learning that in twenty twenty three he
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  Speaker 9: did a trip to Egypt. Now we're still looking into
• 9:40
  Speaker 9: the details of that trip and whether that could have
• 9:42
  Speaker 9: had anything to do with his movement into radical Islam
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  Speaker 9: and more specifically isis But yeah, as you said, this
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  Speaker 9: is someone who had served in the military for ten years,
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  Speaker 9: but over the last years, after some contentious divorce and
• 10:00
  Speaker 9: some financial ruin, he seems to have radicalized and ended
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  Speaker 9: up committing this horrific attack in New Orleans.
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  Speaker 2: It's very hard for me to understand how an American citizen,
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  Speaker 2: with all of the rights and privileges that we have
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  Speaker 2: in the greatest country in the world, could become radicalized
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: to hate our country. Many people wonder, what are meta glasses,
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: what does that mean?
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: And how did that help the attacker listen.
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  Speaker 8: The FBI says Jabbar visited New Orleans in October and
• 10:33
  Speaker 8: November and spend time riding a bike around the French Quarter.
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  Speaker 8: He was wearing metaglasses recorded video as he rode. Metaglasses
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  Speaker 8: allowed the user to record hands free, but they also
• 10:43
  Speaker 8: allowed the user to potentially live stream. Jabbar was wearing
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  Speaker 8: a pair of metaglasses during the attack, but live streaming
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  Speaker 8: was not activated. Before the attack, Jabbar was seen in
• 10:54
  Speaker 8: multiple gun stores in Texas. He also stopped to buy
• 10:56
  Speaker 8: an ice chest, which was used to build an ID.
• 10:59
  Speaker 8: The FBI has confiscated three phones in two laptops from
• 11:02
  Speaker 8: an Airbnb.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
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  Speaker 2: Joining us now in addition to Dave Moyer or doctor
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: Kennel Crowns Fromanio Rodriguez joining US. Craig Drummond is with
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  Speaker 2: US Vegas attorney and for my purposes, former prosecutor and
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  Speaker 2: US Army veteran out of.
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  Speaker 1: Iraq, Drummond Law Firm. Call the Captain, Craig Drummond, thank
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  Speaker 1: you for being with us. I'd like to hear your
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: initial thoughts.
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  Speaker 2: Many stating and I'm not ignoring them at all, but
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  Speaker 2: as a former prosecutor of violent felonies, I can't help
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  Speaker 2: but look at the coincidences. Many claim they're not conduct connected,
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: but I'd like to hear your initial thoughts on what's happened.
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  Speaker 10: While initially there do look like there's a lot of coincidences,
• 12:00
  Speaker 10: a lot of things in common. As you start to
• 12:03
  Speaker 10: peel back the layers, it looks like they were in
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  Speaker 10: totally different types of programs.
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  Speaker 11: In the Army.
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  Speaker 10: We have one who's a special operator, a Green Beret,
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  Speaker 10: trained in explosives, trained in military tactics, trained directly in combat.
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  Speaker 10: We have mister Jabbar who's some type of human resource specialist,
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  Speaker 10: really a paperwork type of individual. It would be unlikely
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  Speaker 10: that they would have served directly in a combat role
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  Speaker 10: or in some sort of direct action role in the military.
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  Speaker 10: They could have been in the same unit.
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  Speaker 2: Drummond, I had to get into a tangle with the
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: US Army Iraqi Vet.
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  Speaker 1: I really don't want to do that. But when you
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: say it's hard to believe, it's difficult to believe.
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  Speaker 2: It's also hard to believe that an American, a US
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  Speaker 2: born American, would attack their own country.
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  Speaker 1: So how far fetched is it to believe the next step.
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  Speaker 1: I'm not a.
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  Speaker 2: Conspiracy theorist, but it's hard for me to ignore these.
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  Speaker 10: What I find different is mister Jabbar clearly was out
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  Speaker 10: to injure a lot of people. And what we have
• 13:06
  Speaker 10: with mister Leibelsberger is we have him using fireworks and
• 13:09
  Speaker 10: we have him using gasoline. And that's interesting because he
• 13:12
  Speaker 10: would have been trained on much much more lethal components.
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  Speaker 10: He could have easily put that vehicle as a much
• 13:19
  Speaker 10: larger bomb to do a much larger explosion. And the
• 13:22
  Speaker 10: reports that I'm reading, at least from a note and
• 13:24
  Speaker 10: things like that, that he did not intend to injure
• 13:27
  Speaker 10: lots of people. He intended to make some sort of statement.
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  Speaker 10: So the difference I find is that one.
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  Speaker 2: Person, you mean, blowing up your truck in front of
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: the Trump Hotel, you don't think that's going to injure people.
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  Speaker 10: I would just proffer this, Nancy, if he wanted to
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  Speaker 10: take out the whole front of that hotel and hundreds
• 13:42
  Speaker 10: of people, he could have done it. He would have
• 13:44
  Speaker 10: had the training to do it, as opposed to mister
• 13:47
  Speaker 10: Jabbar unlikely would have had any training to deal with
• 13:50
  Speaker 10: high combat explosives.
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  Speaker 11: That's the difference.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: Okay, you're hearing Craig Drummond, high profile lawyer, former prosecutor,
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: US Army that out of Rock and now joining me
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: now Jonathan Gillham out of Phoenix, former Navy seal, FBI
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: special agent, Federal Air Marshal cop author of Sheep No More,
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: The Art of Awareness and Attack Survival, and hosts of
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: the podcast The Experts.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: Jonathan, thank you for being with us.
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: I hear Craig Drummond, But my knee jert reaction is
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: to look at this comparison and I'm very very let
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: me just say, incredulous that they're not connected, especially in
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: light of the new information newly discovered. They did have
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: an overlapping stint at BRAG now known as liberty.
• 14:41
  Speaker 12: Well, once we discover these overlaps in time, what we
• 14:45
  Speaker 12: need to then look even closer is is there any
• 14:48
  Speaker 12: overlap in courses that they took, instructors that they had.
• 14:52
  Speaker 12: Was there any type of overlap of some type of
• 14:56
  Speaker 12: aspect that would have affected their psyche?
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: For instance, medication?
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  Speaker 12: Is there medication that they're giving soldiers right now that
• 15:04
  Speaker 12: could have effect or during that period of time that
• 15:08
  Speaker 12: could have affected their mentality that opened them up to
• 15:11
  Speaker 12: this type of psychotic or dimensional behavior? And I think
• 15:16
  Speaker 12: the medication one is very particular as well. Also, when
• 15:19
  Speaker 12: they were in Afghanistan, where were they exactly? Were they
• 15:23
  Speaker 12: close to each other? Was there also anybody specifically in
• 15:26
  Speaker 12: contact with both of them? I think these are the details.
• 15:30
  Speaker 12: I agree that there's so many overlapping factors here that
• 15:34
  Speaker 12: it goes almost beyond just coincidental.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: I'm just curious for Jonathan Gilliam, Dave Lawyer and Craig Drummond,
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: all veterans in armed services for our great country. How
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: could someone that has served our country, willing to risk
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: their lives for our country for us, turn on our country.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: We know for sure that Jabar had an ISIS flag
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: and had been indoctrinated. I don't know that there is
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: anti American sentiment with Libelsburger. I don't know that yet.
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: But you, gentlemen, have served our country. Do serve our country?
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: To doctor Chavon Scott joining us, renown psychotherapist and author
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: of the Minds of mass Killers, Understanding and interrupting the
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: pathway to violence?
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: How if you are.
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: Dyed in the wool pro American, a patriot, how are
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: you radicalized?
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: How can you turn against our country?
• 16:39
  Speaker 13: I think there are usually three components to this sort
• 16:42
  Speaker 13: of thing. You've got a person who's enraged, and often
• 16:45
  Speaker 13: the things that they're angry about are their own doing.
• 16:49
  Speaker 13: You know, they have failed marriages, they've got money problems,
• 16:52
  Speaker 13: and there's a lot of anger that they're sitting with.
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  Speaker 13: And then they develop this paranoid thinking style so that
• 16:58
  Speaker 13: they create an enemy out there. There's other people at
• 17:02
  Speaker 13: fault for the fact that they're angry. And then they
• 17:06
  Speaker 13: find an extremist ideology which gives them a map. It
• 17:10
  Speaker 13: gives them a template for who the bad guys are
• 17:12
  Speaker 13: and who the good guys are, and that can vary
• 17:16
  Speaker 13: depending on what The ideology that they get into is
• 17:20
  Speaker 13: there are actually a lot in history, there are a
• 17:22
  Speaker 13: lot of military people who have become violent extremists.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: So it's certainly not unheard of.
• 17:29
  Speaker 13: It's counterintuitive, I think, to the rest of us who
• 17:32
  Speaker 13: think logically, but it's unfortunately happens more than we would like.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: A soldier detonates a Tesla cyber truck outside the Trump
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: Hotel in Las Vegas Injuring seven, on you Year's Day.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: You've got him with all his marital problems telling a
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: girlfriend on the phone. He feels like Batman. Really while
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: just ours apart. A deadly attack in New Orleans than listen.
• 18:00
  Speaker 14: The FBI releases photos showing Shampstead and Jabbar walking on
• 18:04
  Speaker 14: Dauphine Street near Governor Nichols Street at two oh three am.
• 18:08
  Speaker 14: He's captured on surveillance footage placing two improvised explosive devices,
• 18:12
  Speaker 14: where authorities later found them in the area around Bourbon Street.
• 18:16
  Speaker 14: Bomb technicians recovered two IEDs in coolers, one from the
• 18:20
  Speaker 14: cross section of Bourbon and Orleans Street and the second
• 18:24
  Speaker 14: at intersection two blocks away. A transmitter intended to trigger
• 18:28
  Speaker 14: the two bombs was found in the cab of the
• 18:31
  Speaker 14: Ford truck Jabbar was.
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: Driving IAD improvised explosive device. Who would know how to
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: make that and even create a trigger that could be
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: activated remotely? It seems as if history is repeating itself.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: Listen.
• 18:48
  Speaker 8: Four years after a pie bomb was found outside the
• 18:51
  Speaker 8: Democratic National Committee headquarters in twenty twenty one, the perpetrator
• 18:55
  Speaker 8: has not been caught, so the FBI is releasing new
• 18:57
  Speaker 8: video and new information about the suspect planning the pipe bomb.
• 19:01
  Speaker 8: The gender of the suspect planting one of the bombs
• 19:03
  Speaker 8: is still unknown, and photos of the hood and amassed
• 19:06
  Speaker 8: individual released early on in the investigation, but now the
• 19:09
  Speaker 8: FBI is releasing video as well, announcing the person appears
• 19:13
  Speaker 8: to be about five feet seven inches tall. Releasing the
• 19:16
  Speaker 8: video as an effort by the FBI to get people
• 19:18
  Speaker 8: talking about the unsolved crime and raise awareness.
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: How does a US citizen become radicalized?
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: What do we know about Jabbar? Listen?
• 19:29
  Speaker 15: Shamsu Din Jabbar posted five videos to Facebook explaining how
• 19:33
  Speaker 15: he recently joined ISIS and how he originally planned to
• 19:36
  Speaker 15: get his family together for a celebration and kill them,
• 19:39
  Speaker 15: deciding that would not get the attention he desired. Jabbar
• 19:42
  Speaker 15: then chased his plan of attack so the media would
• 19:44
  Speaker 15: focus on the quote war between the believers and disbelievers.
• 19:48
  Speaker 15: The first video posted at one twenty nine am and
• 19:50
  Speaker 15: the last one posted at three h two.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: Aar straight out to Chief US Investigative report with Dailymail
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: dot Com Fromanio Rodriguez. What do we know about the videos?
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: Hearing words like war between believers and disbelievers, it's a
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: flashback for me when I was in New York the
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: day of September eleven.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: What do you know about the videos?
• 20:14
  Speaker 9: Yeah, so, the FBI has told us that they recovered
• 20:17
  Speaker 9: at least five videos that this terrorists had posted to
• 20:21
  Speaker 9: Facebook right before the attack. As the package mentioned, he
• 20:25
  Speaker 9: had said in the video that he had pledged alliance
• 20:28
  Speaker 9: to Isis that he wanted to kill Americans, and then
• 20:32
  Speaker 9: he went on to say that at first he thought
• 20:35
  Speaker 9: about just killing his family, but then he was concerned
• 20:38
  Speaker 9: that the media wouldn't get his message and would focus
• 20:42
  Speaker 9: on the deaths of his relatives instead of, as he
• 20:46
  Speaker 9: said in the video, the fight between the believers and
• 20:49
  Speaker 9: the non believers, so basically, you know, the fight between
• 20:52
  Speaker 9: Islam and the West. He wanted to make sure that
• 20:55
  Speaker 9: the public knew that that's why he was doing this.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: Okay, Craig Drummond joining me high pro a lawyer out
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: of Vegas and US Army Iraqi. Vet Craig, I want
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: to kill my whole family, But then the world.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: In the media won't know it's all about. Isis?
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: I know it sounds crazy, right, but you and I
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: know the definition, the legal definition of insanity under the
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: old MacNaughton rule part of our common law. This guy
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: is not crazy. He's crazy like a fox, if anything. So,
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: after what you have been through serving in Iraq and more,
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: how does this happen? How does someone a US born
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: citizen from Texas become radicalized to hate America.
• 21:47
  Speaker 10: Well, they're selfish and that's what it really comes down to.
• 21:51
  Speaker 10: They are extremely selfish. And I don't know what his
• 21:54
  Speaker 10: message was. His message that he couldn't get by a
• 21:57
  Speaker 10: quote killing his family or killing his friends. He needed
• 21:59
  Speaker 10: to go out there to kill innocent people trying to
• 22:02
  Speaker 10: enjoy a great city on a great day, trying to get.
• 22:05
  Speaker 11: In the new year.
• 22:06
  Speaker 10: It's infuriating, and it happens because people choose to put
• 22:11
  Speaker 10: themselves first. They choose to forget that they once took
• 22:14
  Speaker 10: an oath to serve our country. They choose to forget
• 22:17
  Speaker 10: that it's important to live in a community and to
• 22:19
  Speaker 10: help others and not kill them.
• 22:21
  Speaker 11: It's infuriating, Nancy.
• 22:22
  Speaker 10: And I don't know how this individual became radicalized, you know,
• 22:25
  Speaker 10: potentially on the internet. I don't know why he chose
• 22:28
  Speaker 10: to put himself over others, but it's very infuriating and saddening,
• 22:32
  Speaker 10: and it's just it's a.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: Tragic, you know.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: Dave Moyer joining me in addition to Craig Drummer, Doctor
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: Scott Jonathan Gillum. Dave, I'm just very confused. It's very
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: difficult for me to understand. Of course, former Navy bomb
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: disposal master technicians. I'm going to get to you about
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: the bombs, but I was trying to understand the mindset
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: of these two that would destroy American lives. After having
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: served in the US military, How do you serve and
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: work with your brothers and sisters in arms and then
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: turn against your own country. You believe in it so
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: much you're willing to lose your own life, but then
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: you completely do it about face.
• 23:16
  Speaker 6: Well, ma'am, I definitely agree with the gentleman that was
• 23:19
  Speaker 6: on earlier about how the former Green Beret would absolutely
• 23:23
  Speaker 6: have the knowledge, training and experience to make that a
• 23:26
  Speaker 6: far more catastrophic explosion that he did. I really leaned
• 23:30
  Speaker 6: towards at least it seems to me that was for
• 23:35
  Speaker 6: a statement. Now, in regards to the New Orleans attack,
• 23:39
  Speaker 6: I can't help but keep drawing correlations to the twenty
• 23:43
  Speaker 6: fifteen high RC bonding in San Bernardino County, which I
• 23:47
  Speaker 6: actually responded to and ran a canine track on, but
• 23:51
  Speaker 6: that it sounds remarkably similar to that event where a
• 23:54
  Speaker 6: US citizen that was helping mentally disabled folks at the
• 23:58
  Speaker 6: Inland Regional Center became reed radicalized via the Internet and
• 24:03
  Speaker 6: eventually traveled overseas to receive training, and it came back
• 24:07
  Speaker 6: and planeted IDEs and then unfortunately shot an awful lot
• 24:11
  Speaker 6: of very innocent people. So I see a lot of
• 24:14
  Speaker 6: correlations there, and despite the timing, and it really seems
• 24:19
  Speaker 6: like consequential evidence our coincidence. Sorry, not consequential, but it
• 24:25
  Speaker 6: seems like an awful lot of coincidences here. That they
• 24:28
  Speaker 6: both happened within several hours, But the type of bombing
• 24:31
  Speaker 6: is completely different, or the type of incident is completely different.
• 24:34
  Speaker 6: With both, there's certainly malice of forethought with the New
• 24:37
  Speaker 6: Orleans attack, and it seemed much more like a statement
• 24:41
  Speaker 6: driven incident in Las Vegas.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: Joining us now high profile columnist with the Dailymail dot
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: Com and author of Ask Not the Kennedys and The
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: Women They Destroyed on Amazon. Now joining me is marine Callahan, Maureen,
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: thank you for being with us.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me.
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: Nancy Louuren, I'd like to hear your initial reaction when
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: you learn that there had been not just one, but
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: two deadly attacks on us soil, well, that both.
• 25:16
  Speaker 16: Were on New Year's Eve, that both were in cities
• 25:20
  Speaker 16: that are known for everything that Islamic fundamentalism seeks to destroy,
• 25:27
  Speaker 16: which is hedonism. Fun Joy abandoned. That they both were
• 25:35
  Speaker 16: car bombs, both suicide bombers. Really well, the New Orleans
• 25:40
  Speaker 16: attacker rammed into a crowd of people before killing himself.
• 25:44
  Speaker 16: But those are both tactics deployed now by Islamic fundamentalist
• 25:48
  Speaker 16: terrorists in cities that have since hardened themselves as targets.
• 25:53
  Speaker 16: We saw two weeks prior in Germany with that horrific
• 25:56
  Speaker 16: attack on the Christmas Market.
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: Officials there used to sort.
• 26:00
  Speaker 16: Of even entertain the idea that it could have been
• 26:02
  Speaker 16: related to Islamic fundamentalism, as did the FBI here initially.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: And I thought that this.
• 26:08
  Speaker 16: Is so symptomatic of a larger problem in America, which
• 26:12
  Speaker 16: goes to the progressive left in Biden having blood on
• 26:17
  Speaker 16: their hands and refusing to call these things what they are.
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: You know, Maureen, I try very hard to stay away
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: from politics, because in my mind, all politicians are swimming
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: in a cesspool, and.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: I don't want to be in that.
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: I try to keep my eye on the prize of
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: solving unsolved homicides, finding missing people, especially children. Here, I
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: think I'd like to approach a bigger picture that it's
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: not just one party or the other. It's a lax attitude.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: We don't want to see what is right in front
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: of us. How can we say that at least one
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: of these attacks is not ISIS.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: Related when there's an ISIS flag. I live through nine
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: to one one.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: I was in New York when the towers fell, and
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: I'm shocked at how we want so desperately to avoid connecting.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: Any of this to ISIS.
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: And when you said, when you made the point, which
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: I thought of it, I didn't hadn't heard it verbalized
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: so succinctly as you just did at Maureen. I have
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: read about and studied Islamic fundamentalness that have come to
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: our country.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: And when they set.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: Foot and walk off the plane at the airport, they
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: look around and they are disgusted.
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: They're disgusted by.
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: Women wearing a pair of shorts, or women with their
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: faces not covered, not wearing a burka, of the consumerism
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: in the US.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: They hate us and everything we and for.
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: And I might say, we stand for consumerism, we stand
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: for free will.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: That's what we have that they don't have.
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: And when you point it out, Morine, Vegas and New
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: Orleans as the focal points of the attacks, that really
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: reverberates in my mind.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: Moraine, Thank you, Nancy.
• 28:21
  Speaker 16: Now, I just want to clarify, as we have since learned,
• 28:23
  Speaker 16: the Vegas bombers seems to have been activated by personal issues.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: He does not seem to have any.
• 28:30
  Speaker 17: Ties whatsoever to Islamic fundamentalism, yet he shows tactics that
• 28:35
  Speaker 17: resemble it. And the iconography is unmistakable, and Elon must
• 28:40
  Speaker 17: be designed outside of a Trump hotel in Vegas. I
• 28:46
  Speaker 17: think that these things are telling us something about a
• 28:51
  Speaker 17: laxity in American culture. And I also link it to
• 28:55
  Speaker 17: the American response, both policy wise, the tone set by
• 29:00
  Speaker 17: the Biden administration and on our Ivy League campuses in
• 29:04
  Speaker 17: major American cities such as New York, where you saw
• 29:07
  Speaker 17: an overwhelming outpouring of sympathy for Gossens and for Palestine
• 29:14
  Speaker 17: and for Hamas, for Hamas, not for Israel. These things
• 29:20
  Speaker 17: are linked.
• 29:21
  Speaker 16: I saw on the Sunday Shows yesterday, I faced the
• 29:23
  Speaker 16: Nation Representative Jim Himes, Democrat, talking with Margaret Brennan. You know,
• 29:29
  Speaker 16: they're scratching their heads, going what's causing this? What caused
• 29:33
  Speaker 16: the New Orleans attacks? Like what causes these? They're now
• 29:37
  Speaker 16: framed as lone wolf.
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: Attacks, but they are not.
• 29:40
  Speaker 18: These ideas are viral, They are a virus. We don't
• 29:45
  Speaker 18: know this guy's extent of involvement with ISIS, but he
• 29:49
  Speaker 18: left his Kuran open to a significant passage that talked
• 29:54
  Speaker 18: about slaughter.
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: So when you couple that too.
• 29:58
  Speaker 16: With the laxity of the and we don't know how
• 30:01
  Speaker 16: many got aways came through. There are countries such as
• 30:05
  Speaker 16: China sending single military age males to cross our southern border.
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: This is a laxity.
• 30:13
  Speaker 16: On the whole that really needs to be addressed, because
• 30:16
  Speaker 16: it really is our greatest threat from within.
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: Right now crime Stores with Nancy Grace.
• 30:30
  Speaker 8: The ATF believes shamsud Den Jabbar attempted to hide evidence
• 30:35
  Speaker 8: by burning down the airbnb he rented by setting a
• 30:37
  Speaker 8: small fire in a hallway with accelerants placed nearby. The
• 30:41
  Speaker 8: fire was reported at five to eighteen am, but two
• 30:43
  Speaker 8: hours after Jabbar was killed, suggesting a timing device or
• 30:47
  Speaker 8: pressure cooker may have been used to delay the start
• 30:50
  Speaker 8: of the blaze. However, the flames burned out before firefighters arrived,
• 30:54
  Speaker 8: and authorities found bomb making materials in the home.
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: Wow, so he knows how to effect a timer, a
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: booby trapped device and tries to destroy all the evidence.
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: To Jonathan Gillham, joining US.
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: Former Navy Seal, FBI special Agent Herma Marshall and author
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: of Sheep and No More, The Art of Awareness and
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: Attacks Survival podcast The Experts, Jonathan, this doesn't sound like
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: an amateur. Earlier, one of our guests stated that he
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: was basically a paper pusher.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: When I think a paper pusher, I.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: Don't think of a guy that knows how to create,
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: improvise explosion devices and set timers and tries to destroy
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: evidence and cases out the bomb location.
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: Right now, the hunt is for potential accomplices. What are
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: they talking about what accomplices?
• 31:47
  Speaker 12: Well, it would be I want to say one thing
• 31:49
  Speaker 12: about him being a paper pusher. Look, Timothy McVeigh was
• 31:53
  Speaker 12: not a bomb builder in the military, but look what
• 31:55
  Speaker 12: he did. So this individual, we can't mistake what he
• 31:59
  Speaker 12: did in then military, Harry versus what he did in
• 32:01
  Speaker 12: his attack. So what we do know is that he
• 32:04
  Speaker 12: wasn't trained to do these types of explosives, learn how
• 32:09
  Speaker 12: to manufacture them use a remote device. So I would
• 32:12
  Speaker 12: think if they're saying they're looking for other accomplices, they're
• 32:16
  Speaker 12: most likely looking for one or two things. People who
• 32:19
  Speaker 12: helped him learn how to build this, who share that
• 32:23
  Speaker 12: information with him, whether that be overseas or in country,
• 32:26
  Speaker 12: which is even more scary, or individuals who actually built
• 32:30
  Speaker 12: the bombs for him and he rolled them up there
• 32:34
  Speaker 12: and then failed to detonate them. So it's one of
• 32:38
  Speaker 12: the others. But it really still again, it bothers me
• 32:41
  Speaker 12: so much because they go and make these sound bites
• 32:44
  Speaker 12: saying that he acted alone. But yet they say now
• 32:49
  Speaker 12: that there's potential again, potential other people that may be involved,
• 32:53
  Speaker 12: accomplices that may be involved. This is a disturbing way
• 32:57
  Speaker 12: for the FBI to put out information or the locals
• 33:01
  Speaker 12: three days into an investigation. It just these sound bites
• 33:05
  Speaker 12: are for their benefit, not for anything else.
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: Okay, what do you mean by that these soundbites are
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: for their benefits and nothing else.
• 33:12
  Speaker 12: Well, it would be like a defense attorney or someone
• 33:16
  Speaker 12: coming out and making a sound bite to help their case.
• 33:19
  Speaker 12: I think when it comes to the failures that the
• 33:22
  Speaker 12: city had, they're going to make soundbites saying that they're
• 33:25
  Speaker 12: safe in New Orleans. They're going to say that, or
• 33:29
  Speaker 12: the FBI is going to come out and say that
• 33:30
  Speaker 12: we don't know, we don't think that there's anybody else
• 33:33
  Speaker 12: involved right now that we know of. Why even say
• 33:36
  Speaker 12: those things? It doesn't do anything except calm people down
• 33:40
  Speaker 12: and make it look like the FBI is in control
• 33:42
  Speaker 12: in their investigation. And quite frankly, I don't think people
• 33:45
  Speaker 12: really care about the extent of what they know. It's
• 33:49
  Speaker 12: just are they figuring it out? And I think when
• 33:52
  Speaker 12: we hear sound bites like that, and then we see
• 33:55
  Speaker 12: things like this where they say they're still looking for accomplices.
• 33:59
  Speaker 12: It is a It's a set of verbiage and sound
• 34:04
  Speaker 12: bites that don't add up, and it causes confusion for
• 34:07
  Speaker 12: people who perhaps would have called in and said, Hey,
• 34:10
  Speaker 12: I think I know something, but then they heard something
• 34:13
  Speaker 12: on television say there was nobody else involved, so they
• 34:15
  Speaker 12: just don't.
• 34:16
  Speaker 11: They don't call in.
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: Craig Drummond that out of you rock former prosecutor now
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: high profile lawyer.
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: Craig He's right.
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: One thing that my boss, the elected district attorney who
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: was like a grandfather to me, drill into us is
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: don't speak. Don't speak to the press, don't care if
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: they're on the front steps of the courthouse when.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: You leave or enter.
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: Don't speak, don't taint your case, don't put anything out
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: there until you know everything. So he lawyer really has
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: a point. Like you think that Jabbar did this all
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: on his own. I tend to think that Libelsberger.
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: Did do it all on his own.
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: However, Jabbar whole different can of worms. He the paper
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: pusher like McVeigh. He was right about that too. Suddenly
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: figures out how to make IEDs, make timers, destroy evidence,
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: who radicalized him? Where do you get the idea to
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: create bombs. I find it really hard to believe he
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: acted Alan.
• 35:24
  Speaker 11: I completely concur with your assessment, Nancy.
• 35:26
  Speaker 10: I mean, we have Libelsburger who everything he did would
• 35:29
  Speaker 10: have been within his wheelhouse.
• 35:30
  Speaker 11: It would have been within his training and his skill set.
• 35:34
  Speaker 10: We have this mister Jabbar who has these bombs that
• 35:37
  Speaker 10: I agree with the other individual who said he wouldn't
• 35:40
  Speaker 10: have been trained in that in the military. He could
• 35:42
  Speaker 10: have learned it on the internet. I completely concur. But
• 35:44
  Speaker 10: he also might have had an accomplice.
• 35:46
  Speaker 11: I do not know.
• 35:47
  Speaker 10: I think there are a lot more questions related to
• 35:49
  Speaker 10: mister Jabbar, these remote bombs that apparently weren't detonated, the
• 35:54
  Speaker 10: Airbnb that apparently he wasn't very successful at burning down.
• 35:57
  Speaker 11: But there are a lot of questions about that.
• 35:59
  Speaker 10: And to say that he acted alone at this point,
• 36:02
  Speaker 10: I think it might be a little premature. I don't
• 36:04
  Speaker 10: know what law enforcement knows, but I would agree it's
• 36:06
  Speaker 10: a little premature. But we have things done outside of
• 36:09
  Speaker 10: his known skill set.
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: Two military vets. What do they have in common? Crumbling marriages,
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: their lives and disarray Straight out to dailymail dot COM's
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: chief investigative reporter, Hermani and Rodriguez tell me about their
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: lives apart from any anti American sentiment.
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 36:30
  Speaker 9: Aside from their military experience, perhaps the most important thing
• 36:35
  Speaker 9: that these two men had in common was that their
• 36:37
  Speaker 9: personal lives had spiraled in the years before their attacks.
• 36:43
  Speaker 9: The Green Beret had actually just had a baby over
• 36:47
  Speaker 9: the summer with his wife, But we now know that
• 36:51
  Speaker 9: some time before he took off from Colorado to Vegas,
• 36:55
  Speaker 9: he had some type of fight with his wife, who
• 36:58
  Speaker 9: hadn't heard from him for days before this attack. We
• 37:02
  Speaker 9: also know that he was dealing with some PTSD. An
• 37:06
  Speaker 9: ex girlfriend said that he contacted her days before the attack,
• 37:09
  Speaker 9: showing off the tesla. Now, Jabbar, on his part, had
• 37:14
  Speaker 9: even more of a troubled past relationship life.
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: He had two divorces.
• 37:19
  Speaker 9: The last one appears to have been particularly difficult. The
• 37:23
  Speaker 9: ex wife got a restraining order against him, and as
• 37:27
  Speaker 9: part of the divorce proceedings, Jabbar had said that he
• 37:31
  Speaker 9: could not pay for the house that he shared with
• 37:34
  Speaker 9: his ex wife, that his real estate business had crumbled,
• 37:39
  Speaker 9: and that he basically was bankrupt. Now this was just
• 37:43
  Speaker 9: a few years before the attack that made him nationally famous.
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, in fact, he's a deadbeat dad.
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: The wife from a wife had to go to court
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: to get him to pay his child's support. And then
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: you've got Libelsberger, who's marriage is crumbling even after he's
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: just had a baby with his wife. But curious to
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: doctor Chavon Scott joining a psychotherapist author of the Minds
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: of mass Killers, Doctor Scott in addition to his crumbling marriage,
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: Littelsberger said that this was a quote wake up call
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: for America.
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: What does that mean? Yeah?
• 38:24
  Speaker 13: Yeah, what does it mean? It shows distorted thinking that's
• 38:28
  Speaker 13: going on. And was he involved in a particular political
• 38:32
  Speaker 13: ideology that we're not aware of? Where he was looking
• 38:37
  Speaker 13: for the enemy. And usually guys like this, they have
• 38:42
  Speaker 13: this bizarre belief that there's this external enemy that is
• 38:48
  Speaker 13: the result of why they're having all the problems that
• 38:52
  Speaker 13: they're having in their lives. And so it's my guess
• 38:55
  Speaker 13: that he was reading material, Was he active in groups
• 38:58
  Speaker 13: online where there was an enemy? Was it part of
• 39:01
  Speaker 13: our own political system? From the things I've read about him,
• 39:05
  Speaker 13: he had complaints about our own government and our own
• 39:08
  Speaker 13: political system. And so it's this interesting phenomenon where their
• 39:12
  Speaker 13: personal problems and their rage is a result of themselves.
• 39:18
  Speaker 13: It's their own view of the world, it's their own inadequacy.
• 39:22
  Speaker 13: But rather than taking responsibility for that, they're putting the
• 39:26
  Speaker 13: responsibility externally, and that's why they act out in violence.
• 39:30
  Speaker 13: So there's nothing as dangerous as a holy warrior, you know,
• 39:33
  Speaker 13: somebody who has chosen an extremist set of beliefs because
• 39:38
  Speaker 13: they're really angry.
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: Doctor Kendall Crown's joining us in addition to doctor cheven Scott,
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: chief medical exammer Terrett County. I walk up in the
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: middle of the night thinking about family and relatives of
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: all the victims. Now did that We're just walking the street,
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: enjoying themselves in the way orlands, and suddenly you get
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: the call your child is dead, just out of the blue,
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: Doctor Crowns, What did these victims endure? Did they realize
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: what had happened?
• 40:19
  Speaker 7: So certainly they were all hit by a vehicle. So
• 40:21
  Speaker 7: when the motor vehicle comes crashing through the crowd, you'll
• 40:24
  Speaker 7: be seeing the car coming at you. And sometimes when
• 40:29
  Speaker 7: you're hit by a car at a high rate of speed,
• 40:31
  Speaker 7: it'll hit you fast enough cause enough significant injuries like
• 40:34
  Speaker 7: a cervical spine fracture or a skull fracture that you'll
• 40:38
  Speaker 7: be rendered unconscious immediately. But oftentimes what happens is you
• 40:43
  Speaker 7: get crushing injuries to the chest, rib fractures, you get
• 40:47
  Speaker 7: splinic or liver lacerations, and you bleed internally, which takes
• 40:52
  Speaker 7: you a while to die. Also, you'll see fractures of
• 40:55
  Speaker 7: the extremities or the legs or the arms as well.
• 40:58
  Speaker 7: So if you aren't hitting the head, you're going to
• 41:01
  Speaker 7: have a time period where you were hit by a
• 41:03
  Speaker 7: car and then you're laying there bleeding internally or bleeding
• 41:06
  Speaker 7: out onto the sidewalk and unable to do anything because
• 41:10
  Speaker 7: you're all you're all broken and in pain. So the
• 41:14
  Speaker 7: individuals that got hit, odds are they did suffer quite
• 41:18
  Speaker 7: a while before they passed away.
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: Our prayers with the victims' families and the search for answers.
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: Nancy Grace signing off Goodbye friend.