Latest / The Week in Bible Prophecy / Dead Sea Scroll Mysteries | Josh Peck

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Dead Sea Scroll Mysteries | Josh Peck · The Week in Bible Prophecy

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Speaker 1: The Week in Bible Prophecy, a Prophecy Watchers Podcast.
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Speaker 2: Welcome to the podcast this week everyone, I am here
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Speaker 2: with Josh Peck.
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Speaker 1: Welcome Josh, Hey, Thanks glad to be back.
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Speaker 2: And we're going to be talking about again one of
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Speaker 2: my favorite topics, and that is the Dead Sea Scrolls.
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Speaker 2: And before we do want to remind everybody first and foremost,
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Speaker 2: if you are watching this on YouTube, then we encourage
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Speaker 2: people to subscribe how many people listen, and we're trying
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Speaker 2: have a foothold here in this one. And also just
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Speaker 2: remind everybody as well that we are going to be
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Speaker 2: in Branson, Missouri. Christmas in Branson coming December fifth through
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Speaker 2: It's going to be a great time. We got over
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Speaker 2: twenty speakers going to be coming and speaking and giving
0:58
Speaker 2: us a couple of presentations. We got you know, I
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Speaker 2: think over forty five presentations there. It's a great time
1:04
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1:06
Speaker 2: you certainly can join us through live stream. That information
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Speaker 2: is going to be coming soon, but check it out
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Speaker 2: the banner for Branson.
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Speaker 3: Should be a great time. I mean, you're you're going
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Speaker 3: to be there, and yeah, I'm looking forward to it.
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Speaker 3: It's gonna be good.
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Speaker 2: And so we get a chance to talk about your
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Speaker 2: new two volume set Forgotten Prophecies of the Dead Sea Scrolls,
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Speaker 2: Unlocking the Final Jubilee of the Church Age.
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Speaker 3: And so this is a brand new production.
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Speaker 2: It has let's let's talk just for people's background here,
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Speaker 2: this is kind of an updated and expanded version of
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Speaker 2: a previous book that you had did, so kind of
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Speaker 2: talk about the differences there.
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Speaker 3: I think that'd be good.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, when I first started studying this, this was about
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Speaker 1: five years ago, and I got so excited when I
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Speaker 1: first started looking into the Dead Sea Scrolls because they're
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Speaker 1: they're amazing, They're phenomenal. And after a few months of research,
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Speaker 1: I wrote my first book on it, which was called
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Speaker 1: Lost Offhees of Kumran, and then I kind of thought
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Speaker 1: that was going to be it, but just more stuff
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Speaker 1: kept coming up. There was more to learn about the
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Speaker 1: Dead Sea Scrolls. And and and now it's five years later.
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Speaker 1: Well after a couple of years of additional study, I thought, man,
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Speaker 1: I really wish I would have waited to write Lost
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Speaker 1: Prophecies of Kumran, because there's so much more information that
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Speaker 1: can be added here. So recently I thought, well, why
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Speaker 1: don't I just do an updated and expanded version of
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Speaker 1: that that older book and just have the same book,
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Speaker 1: but just add in all the extra stuff that I
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Speaker 1: want to add in. So that's what I did. So
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Speaker 1: this is this really is a project that has been
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Speaker 1: five years in the making. I now I kind of
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Speaker 1: look at Lost Prophecies of Cumaran almost like the rough drafter,
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Speaker 1: like the crib notes before you really get into the
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Speaker 1: meat of it, because what the kinds of things that
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Speaker 1: I came I came across years after that just blew
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Speaker 1: my mind more than what I found in those first
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Speaker 1: few months. And the reason that it's two volumes is
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Speaker 1: because there's so much information it can't really be put
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Speaker 1: into one volume. I did actually try that though. When
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Speaker 1: I first put the book together, it was almost eight
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Speaker 1: hundred pages and I had a proof copy sent to me.
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Speaker 1: And when I got this thing, it was like it
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Speaker 1: was something that like it's so daunting to look at, like,
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Speaker 1: who's gonna Who's gonna read this? I mean especially I
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Speaker 1: know a lot of people like reading when they travel.
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Speaker 1: That would have been a book you can't take on
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Speaker 1: a plane. It's just way too big. So so, uh,
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Speaker 1: it was it was just an obvious thing to split
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Speaker 1: it up into two volumes, which makes it a lot
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Speaker 1: easier for people to read. So it's a two volume set.
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Speaker 1: If people go on Prophecy watchers dot Com to order it, uh,
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Speaker 1: make sure you get both because one will not make
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Speaker 1: sense without the other one. You gotta get both.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, very good, And you have the subtitle. Volume one
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Speaker 2: is as Seene History and the Prophetic Calendar, and then
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Speaker 2: volume two is the Lost Festivals and the Prophetic Timeline.
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Speaker 2: And you know, before we get into some of the
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Speaker 2: nitty gritty here, I think, you know, for for the
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Speaker 2: listeners is just to just to give a background.
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Speaker 3: I remember I took.
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Speaker 2: A class on on the Dead Sea Scrolls in seminary
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Speaker 2: and you know, just for people to understand, you know,
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Speaker 2: we have roughly nine hundred scrolls, you know, fifteen thousand
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Speaker 2: fragments found you know in the area on the western
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Speaker 2: shore of the Dead Sea really beginning in like nineteen
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Speaker 2: forty six, you know, for ten years in nineteen fifty six.
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Speaker 2: You know, of the nine hundred, two hundred and fifty
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Speaker 2: of the scrolls are biblical. So there's three divisions just
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Speaker 2: for people to understand. There's the biblical scrolls, and then
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Speaker 2: you have the non biblical scrolls like the Book of Enoch,
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Speaker 2: it's still a scroll. And then you have that which
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Speaker 2: is called the sectarian manuscripts, like the Damascus Document other
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Speaker 2: things that were that were documents that were written by
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Speaker 2: the people amongst their rules that you know again Damascus
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Speaker 2: the rule, the community rule, other things like that. So
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Speaker 2: you also have them being written in Hebrew, you have Aramic,
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Speaker 2: you have Greek, even some of the other places, you
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Speaker 2: got Latin, Nabatian. It's really kind of fat even Arabic,
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Speaker 2: you know. So you have you have a variety of
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Speaker 2: scrolls there go from the Dead Sea area all the
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Speaker 2: way down to Masouda and even a little more south
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Speaker 2: than that. But let's talk about this for a minute,
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Speaker 2: because I know, for me, when the Dead Sea scrolls,
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Speaker 2: they've been known of course since the late forties, but
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Speaker 2: they were not published. They were basically hijacked by scholars.
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Speaker 2: And I remember reading about this in the nineties and
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Speaker 2: really in the mid to late nineties, and Herschel Shanks
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Speaker 2: was a guy that was the editor of BAR magazine,
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Speaker 2: the Biblical Archaeology Review magazine, and he was upset that
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Speaker 2: the scholars were keeping these scrolls for themselves, and they
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Speaker 2: were unwilling to publish them, and they were keeping them
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Speaker 2: under lock and key. And the long story short is
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Speaker 2: he ended up getting a copy of one of the
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Speaker 2: advanced transcriptions, not a translation but a transcription. Well, I
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Speaker 2: guess you'd say translation, but transcription is just from Hebrew,
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Speaker 2: let's say, into English letters. And he published it and
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Speaker 2: he got sued, but he but he really broke the damn.
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Speaker 2: But once that got out there, all the rest of
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Speaker 2: the scholars began to publish their material and everything else.
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Speaker 2: And I remember being so fascinated by it. But let's
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Speaker 2: start there for a minute. Why do you think, Josh,
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Speaker 2: I mean, you obviously written a lot about this, but
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Speaker 2: why are people so interested in these scrolls that from
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Speaker 2: the desert? I mean, well, what's the fascination?
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Speaker 1: Well, I think because of the legitimacy around them, because
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Speaker 1: among the dead Sea scrolls are all of the books
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Speaker 1: of the Old Testament except Esther, and Esther might have
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Speaker 1: been in there, and it could it could just be
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Speaker 1: fragmented too much, and we don't know or and there's
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Speaker 1: a lot of theories on why Esther's hasn't hasn't been discovered.
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Speaker 1: But but it's nice to say it's pretty much every
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Speaker 1: book of the Old Testament is in there. So so
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Speaker 1: that already adds a lot of weight to the Dead
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Speaker 1: Sea Scrolls. That adds a lot of legitimacy. But not
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Speaker 1: only that, there's some there's some pretty intense claims in
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Speaker 1: there prophetically that ended up coming true. So the timeline
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Speaker 1: that they put on the Dead Sea Scrolls is usually
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Speaker 1: about two hundred years before Christ. There's probably some that
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Speaker 1: are much older than that. We don't know which of
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Speaker 1: these are copies from even older manuscripts or which ones
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Speaker 1: are brand new. And you know there's some from a
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Speaker 1: little later as well, but it's right around two hundred
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Speaker 1: years before Christ. Well, there are prophetic Dead Sea scrolls
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Speaker 1: talking about the Messiah and specific things that he would do,
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Speaker 1: things that we've always thought no Jewish person ever knew
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Speaker 1: during the time of Christ that the Messiah was going
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Speaker 1: to do this and this and this and this. Everyone
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Speaker 1: was taken by surprise.
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Speaker 2: You know.
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Speaker 1: I grew up in church hearing that a lot and
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Speaker 1: believed it because when you read the Gospels, that's really
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Speaker 1: what it sounds like. But that that's not exactly the
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Speaker 1: full story, so I think, because it adds so much
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Speaker 1: context like that to our bibles. So for an example
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Speaker 1: with with what I was saying, there was a large
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Speaker 1: faction of Jewish believers in Israel at the time of
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Speaker 1: Jesus that Josephus later called scenes. So this is one
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Speaker 1: of three main groups. There were a lot of groups,
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Speaker 1: There were many of them, but the remain ones that
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Speaker 1: pertain to our conversation here Pharisees, Sadducees, and the scenes.
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Speaker 1: Typically we hear about the Pharisees and Sadducees quite a
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Speaker 1: bit in the Gospels. We don't get that word a scene,
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Speaker 1: but we do get the groups of people in there.
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Speaker 1: And so there are times where Jesus will go to
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Speaker 1: a certain place and there will be you know, hundreds
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Speaker 1: or thousands of people listening to him, and they all
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Speaker 1: get saved. He barely even has to say anything, you know,
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Speaker 1: they just they just get saved. And then there are
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Speaker 1: other times where he'll be talking to a handful of
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Speaker 1: people and he'll do miracles, He'll he'll like show everybody
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Speaker 1: the proof, and they're just not buying it, and they're
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Speaker 1: just absolutely not doing it. It's like, well, what is
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Speaker 1: the difference. The difference is because, by and large, not
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Speaker 1: in every single case, but just by and large, generally,
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Speaker 1: the ones that are are stubborn and not believing, those
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Speaker 1: are typically the Pharisees or Sadducees. They had a completely
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Speaker 1: different view of what they thought the Messiah was gonna do.
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Speaker 1: But the ones that did believe, they've been reading what
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Speaker 1: we call the Dead Sea scrolls now. But they've been
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Speaker 1: reading these scrolls, they've been read learning this stuff their
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Speaker 1: entire lives, and in there are specific prophecies about what
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Speaker 1: to expect when the Messiah comes, even to the year
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Speaker 1: of when he would he would arrive. So they knew,
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Speaker 1: they've studied this their whole lives. They knew the Messiah
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Speaker 1: is gonna arrive in my lifetime. And then once Jesus
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Speaker 1: came on the scenes and then started fulfilling some of
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Speaker 1: this stuff, they just immediately immediately caught it, and so
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Speaker 1: I think I think all all of these things kind
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Speaker 1: of added together, Plus there's just there's just kind of
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Speaker 1: an air of mystery around it, being the Dead Sea Scrolls,
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Speaker 1: and I think all of that put together really piques
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Speaker 1: people's interests. Another thing, and this isn't such a good thing,
9:37
Speaker 1: but another thing too, is there are extremists that will
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Speaker 1: take the Dead Sea Scrolls and say that they say
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Speaker 1: just the absolute wildest things. I mean, I remember you're
9:46
Speaker 1: talking about the nineties. I remember I was actually a
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Speaker 1: kid in the nineties and I would go to the
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Speaker 1: supermarket with my mom and I would see these tabloids
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Speaker 1: the Dead Sea Scrolls predict Jesus because coming back this
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Speaker 1: year and like just all this insane stuff, and it
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Speaker 1: doesn't it doesn't say anything like that. So I think
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Speaker 1: that that initial boom in the nineties just getting all
10:04
Speaker 1: of the all of this other stuff kind of in
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Speaker 1: pop culture like that, because theabloids were a really big
10:08
Speaker 1: deal back then. Not so much anymore, thank god, but
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Speaker 1: we got the Internet now. So I think all of
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Speaker 1: that kind of rolled together adds to why, uh these
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Speaker 1: documents more than almost anything else, why they're so interesting
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Speaker 1: to people, and and why they kind of they kind
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Speaker 1: of have that poll on people.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's definitely a mystique because I mean, the I know,
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Speaker 2: for me, you know, we have we have the Biblical text,
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Speaker 2: which is all there and we can study at any time.
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Speaker 3: And then but to to.
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Speaker 2: To be intrigued by let's say, you know, within you
10:43
Speaker 2: have what are known as apocryphal text, you know, like
10:46
Speaker 2: the Book of Maccabees and other things. But then you
10:47
Speaker 2: also have the suit of Pigripha, which are you know,
10:51
Speaker 2: you have Jewish shooterpigrapha, and then even Christian But to
10:55
Speaker 2: think in terms of like, you know, the Testament of
10:58
Speaker 2: Adam and Eve or the Testament, they say, oh, oh something,
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Speaker 2: there's another story about Adam and Eve that I've never heard.
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Speaker 2: I mean, besides, you know, the first few chapters of Genesis.
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Speaker 3: So it's very intriguing.
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Speaker 2: But so there's no doubt that, as we said, there's
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Speaker 2: you know, nine hundred scrolls, and not all of them
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Speaker 2: are biblical. Some are you know again even our commentaries.
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Speaker 2: But some of the other things. You do have these
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Speaker 2: other books that were well known at the time, again,
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Speaker 2: like the Book of Enoch, where the average Jewish person
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Speaker 2: living in the land they were not illiterate, right, They
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Speaker 2: definitely these books were well known. It's like you know, okay,
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Speaker 2: the Lord of the Rings or whatever, in the sense
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Speaker 2: of you had books that are out there.
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Speaker 3: And obviously no doubt this group.
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Speaker 2: Down there at the Dead Sea they made whatever their
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Speaker 2: goal was.
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Speaker 3: And it wasn't just them.
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Speaker 2: I think there were others that came and brought scrolls
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Speaker 2: from a variety of places, brought them to this area
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Speaker 2: to hide them away from the Romans, because we know
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Speaker 2: again the war of basically sixty six eighty to seventy.
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Speaker 2: They thought to hide these very important documents, some of
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Speaker 2: them biblical, others just other rules. But there is this
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Speaker 2: fascination because and we're going to get into some of
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Speaker 2: the details there. But even without even by themselves, they
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Speaker 2: provide great context for the Bible. Yes, they provide an
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Speaker 2: understanding of these scenes that were written by Josephus or others.
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Speaker 2: I think additionally, which one of the main verses, and
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Speaker 2: I know you know this, but is Isaiah forty verse
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Speaker 2: three prepare the way of the Lord from the wildered,
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Speaker 2: from the wilderness from the desert. And so we know
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Speaker 2: John the Baptist the New Testament clearly says that he
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Speaker 2: fulfilled that from the book of Malachi and Isaiah as well,
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Speaker 2: And so the question then comes and this is just
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Speaker 2: maybe creates your opinion on it. There are those scholars
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Speaker 2: on both sides that I see was John the Baptist
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Speaker 2: his theme verse was Isaiah forty Malachi at three. Well,
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Speaker 2: that seems to be the exact same theme versus of
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Speaker 2: the scenes.
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Speaker 3: That's why they were in the desert. So, you know,
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Speaker 3: was John the Baptist in a scene?
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Speaker 1: I believe, So I believe it's it's very highly likely.
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Speaker 1: You know, I'm not gonna say for absolute sure because
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Speaker 1: we weren't there, and new evidence could come out that
13:15
Speaker 1: that could disprove that. But now I think it's extremely
13:18
Speaker 1: likely that that he was, because, like you mentioned, one
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Speaker 1: of their biggest reasons for going into Kumran. I mean,
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Speaker 1: there was a lot of political stuff going on at
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Speaker 1: the time that they wanted to remove themselves from that
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Speaker 1: the and.
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Speaker 2: We know there were scenes in every community, but there
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Speaker 2: was this group down in the desert, no doubt.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and those were those were like the Zendokian priests,
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Speaker 1: the priests that were from the line of Zadok, the
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Speaker 1: way that God commanded it to be, and Israel started
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Speaker 1: going away from that and started having priests that were
13:48
Speaker 1: not from that line. And there was a lot of
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Speaker 1: other things too. They were having problems with the calendar
13:53
Speaker 1: because they had an invading force that wanted that wanted
13:56
Speaker 1: Israel to use their pig and lunar calendar. And some
13:59
Speaker 1: of this was like, okay, yeah, we'll do that so
14:02
Speaker 1: we can do our other Jewish things, and then other
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Speaker 1: Jewish people were like, no, absolutely, we're not doing that,
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Speaker 1: We're leaving. And those were the Those were the Zochean
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Speaker 1: priests and the people that worked with the priest, and
14:12
Speaker 1: then those who followed their interpretation, which they maintained was
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Speaker 1: the original Jewish interpretation of the Old Testament. Those that
14:20
Speaker 1: followed that were just known as the scenes. So so yeah,
14:24
Speaker 1: you do, you do, you do have that split. And
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Speaker 1: and another interesting difference too, was so the Pharisees got
14:33
Speaker 1: to the point where they just believed that prophecy had
14:36
Speaker 1: ceased because they weren't. They weren't getting any prophecy from
14:39
Speaker 1: God anymore. Now clearly it's they adopted a pagan calendar.
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Speaker 1: They weren't doing their temple rituals on the right days anymore,
14:45
Speaker 1: which there's very harsh consequences for that that are laid
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Speaker 1: out in the Old Testament. But the the the priest,
14:53
Speaker 1: the Kumran community is probably a better word for it.
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Speaker 1: But the Kumran community fully believed in prophecy. They still
14:59
Speaker 1: had uh prophets. So going back to the question was
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Speaker 1: John the Baptist in the scene, one of the main
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Speaker 1: prophecies that the Kumaran community believed that they were fulfilling
15:08
Speaker 1: was that in Isaiah that they were going to be
15:09
Speaker 1: the ones to prepare the way for the Lord. They
15:12
Speaker 1: even called themselves the Way, which we get that from
15:15
Speaker 1: Acts Uh. And when Paul is talking about there's this
15:18
Speaker 1: sect called the Way, Uh, that's that's Cumran, that's them.
15:23
Speaker 1: They called themselves the Way. What's really interesting too, is
15:26
Speaker 1: they didn't call their area Cumroan. They actually called it Damascus.
15:31
Speaker 1: And Uh. There there's a there's a whole etymology you know,
15:35
Speaker 1: behind that. But that that just goes a little bit
15:38
Speaker 1: outside of the question. But that that caused me to
15:41
Speaker 1: wonder in the book, and I write a lot about
15:42
Speaker 1: it in the book. When when Paul was in Damascus,
15:44
Speaker 1: which Damascus was, was it Syria or was it was
15:47
Speaker 1: it was it Cumron, because we read that Paul had
15:51
Speaker 1: to get like special permission from the from the high
15:53
Speaker 1: priest to be able to go to Damascus and basically
15:56
Speaker 1: take care of business. Well, if it was Syria, would
15:59
Speaker 1: he need that? Like, uh, it makes more sense if
16:01
Speaker 1: it if it was actually Kumran and specifically, and and
16:05
Speaker 1: I don't remember the exact verse, but I think it
16:07
Speaker 1: says somewhere in there that when when he was lowered
16:09
Speaker 1: out of the window, that doesn't it say that he
16:11
Speaker 1: was on a street that was called the way or
16:13
Speaker 1: something like.
16:13
Speaker 3: That, the street called straight.
16:15
Speaker 1: Straight, Yeah, and make straight the way up the Lord.
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Speaker 1: So it makes sense if they were if that prophecy
16:19
Speaker 1: was so ingrained into who they were as a people,
16:22
Speaker 1: of course they're gonna name their streets stuff like that,
16:24
Speaker 1: you know. So so there's that. Also, we know that
16:30
Speaker 1: originally John the Baptist's father would have been a pharisee.
16:35
Speaker 1: He was in the course of a bias, so he
16:36
Speaker 1: would have worked in the temple. John the Baptist clearly
16:39
Speaker 1: was not a pharisee. Well what happened? We're we are
16:41
Speaker 1: kind of told the story where where his father sees
16:45
Speaker 1: his angel and he can't talk for a while. I
16:47
Speaker 1: think what happened the Kumran community that Zidolkian priests, they
16:51
Speaker 1: were known for almost like apprenticeships. They were known for
16:55
Speaker 1: taking in children that that parents wanted them to go
16:58
Speaker 1: study with the with the pre they would take in
17:00
Speaker 1: children into their community and bring them up in the
17:03
Speaker 1: way of the Zadokian priesthood or just the just the
17:06
Speaker 1: Kumran way. The scene way, Well, it makes sense then
17:12
Speaker 1: after that experience with you know, we're not told this specifically,
17:14
Speaker 1: but it lines up that after John's father went through
17:19
Speaker 1: all that, that maybe he said, Okay, well, I don't
17:23
Speaker 1: want my son John to be raised in the Pharisee
17:26
Speaker 1: in the temple way, because that's clearly wrong. So let's
17:30
Speaker 1: send them out to the priests of Zadok and have
17:34
Speaker 1: them learn there. So when so there's that when we
17:37
Speaker 1: run into when we when we're introduced to John, he's
17:40
Speaker 1: he's doing baptisms. The way he was doing baptisms was
17:44
Speaker 1: very a scene like there. It's laid out in a
17:47
Speaker 1: lot of the dead Sea squirrels. How important ritual cleansings
17:50
Speaker 1: like that were. And they were a little different than
17:51
Speaker 1: the way that the Pharisees did it. The Pharisees, they
17:54
Speaker 1: didn't necessarily like like dunk the way that that John
17:58
Speaker 1: the Baptist was doing. They had, if I remember right,
18:00
Speaker 1: they had they had a really large, like basically pool
18:04
Speaker 1: that they would walk into and fully submerge them. Yeah,
18:08
Speaker 1: so it was a different process than how John the
18:11
Speaker 1: Baptist was doing it. So John the Baptist was not
18:14
Speaker 1: baptizing in the Pharisee way, but when you look at
18:16
Speaker 1: how these scenes would do it, that lines up. So
18:20
Speaker 1: he didn't invent baptisms or anything. But what he what
18:24
Speaker 1: he was doing was he was baptizing people into this
18:26
Speaker 1: into this new faith because the Messiah was coming, and
18:28
Speaker 1: so John the Baptist was a literal fulfillment of that prophecy.
18:32
Speaker 1: He was uh making straight the way and all that.
18:36
Speaker 1: Another weird one this so all of that's pretty normal,
18:40
Speaker 1: but there's one weird one that I've always wondered since
18:42
Speaker 1: I was a kid, like why did why did they
18:44
Speaker 1: Why did the writer feel it necessary to include that
18:48
Speaker 1: John was eating locusts? Yeah, like why why? Why is that?
18:52
Speaker 1: That makes him sound like a crazy person to us
18:54
Speaker 1: because we're American and we don't do that well, actually,
18:57
Speaker 1: there's something really interesting history behind that. It wasn't a
19:02
Speaker 1: typical delicacy to eat locusts in all of Israel, but
19:05
Speaker 1: in Kumran it was. And in the Dead Sea squirrels
19:07
Speaker 1: there's actual provisions for how to prepare them, and so
19:11
Speaker 1: that lines that. That's another thing that lines up as well,
19:14
Speaker 1: that was that was a delicacy unique to the Kumaran community.
19:19
Speaker 1: So there's there's not necessarily one smoking gun. But when
19:23
Speaker 1: you add all of these things together, and there's a
19:25
Speaker 1: few other things too, but when you add all of
19:26
Speaker 1: them together, it really seems like John the Baptist was
19:29
Speaker 1: in a scene. I mean, even just in his theology,
19:31
Speaker 1: what he was teaching, it's very a scene esque like
19:35
Speaker 1: it lines up more with that than anything else. So yeah,
19:38
Speaker 1: I think I think it's it's extremely likely that John
19:41
Speaker 1: the Baptist was in a scene.
19:42
Speaker 2: Okay, that's good, and you know, so we have you know,
19:46
Speaker 2: you have I don't know, twelve chapters, fourteen chapters, lots
19:50
Speaker 2: of appendices which we certainly can't get into all of them.
19:53
Speaker 2: But the.
19:55
Speaker 3: Let's get into some of the other interesting things. You know,
19:58
Speaker 3: just your the.
19:58
Speaker 2: Title you the lost the first title that you had
20:01
Speaker 2: of there again of the draft, we'll say it that way,
20:04
Speaker 2: the lost prophecies and then here, which makes good sense.
20:08
Speaker 2: You change the word to forgotten prophecies, which helps distinguish
20:11
Speaker 2: the books make sense. Yeah, so what do we mean
20:15
Speaker 2: that we what do you mean in the sense of
20:18
Speaker 2: whether it's lost prophecies or forgotten prophecies? Kind of give
20:22
Speaker 2: us an overview of what what that means.
20:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's basically the same concept, And yeah, it was
20:27
Speaker 1: I renamed it. I wanted to keep it something similar
20:29
Speaker 1: so people knew that the titles that these books are related.
20:33
Speaker 1: But I didn't want to release it under the same
20:35
Speaker 1: title because that would have just been confusing. So the
20:37
Speaker 1: basic idea behind both titles is the same. But it's
20:39
Speaker 1: that there are these prophecies that are thousands of years old,
20:43
Speaker 1: you know, at least two thousand and a couple hundred
20:45
Speaker 1: years old, that by and large aren't really talked about
20:50
Speaker 1: a whole lot in like academy. I've I've watched a
20:52
Speaker 1: lot of presentations on the Dead Sea scrolls that are academic.
20:56
Speaker 1: They almost never get into the real prophecies stuff and
21:00
Speaker 1: what it means, because it means some crazy things. It
21:02
Speaker 1: means that Jesus is Lord, you know, he's the Messiah.
21:07
Speaker 1: It clearly says that. And so in a sense, the
21:12
Speaker 1: church has kind of forgotten where we come from. Because
21:16
Speaker 1: one of the most interesting things, one of the most
21:18
Speaker 1: inspiring things to me, is what happened to these scenes?
21:21
Speaker 1: What happened to the Kumran community. And it's funny because
21:25
Speaker 1: there are articles, there are academic articles that ask this question.
21:28
Speaker 1: They don't even give you an answer, and the answer
21:30
Speaker 1: is pretty simple. It's what happened was Jesus came on
21:33
Speaker 1: the scene, a whole bunch of the scenes got saved,
21:36
Speaker 1: the Kumran community got saved, and Jesus put out the
21:40
Speaker 1: Great Commission told people to go out and spread this
21:42
Speaker 1: to the world. So that's exactly what they did. They
21:44
Speaker 1: hid the scrolls in the cave. There's actually an interesting
21:47
Speaker 1: reason for that. There's practical reasons, of course, because of
21:50
Speaker 1: Rome and all that, and they wanted to but there
21:53
Speaker 1: was I forget the name of it, but there was
21:55
Speaker 1: a specific I have it in the book. There was
21:57
Speaker 1: a specific kind of like ritualistic practice. Most that they
22:00
Speaker 1: don't destroy scrolls because it's the word of God, you know,
22:03
Speaker 1: it's it's it's a gift from God to them, So
22:05
Speaker 1: they don't they don't destroy scrolls when they have to
22:08
Speaker 1: bury him, Yeah, they bury him. And so it really
22:10
Speaker 1: seems like, at least partly that's what was going on.
22:13
Speaker 1: They were kept preserved, and thank god they did that
22:15
Speaker 1: because now we have them. But so that that's one
22:19
Speaker 1: of the most interesting things is that they they went out,
22:23
Speaker 1: took the Great commission, seriously preached the gospel, and that's
22:26
Speaker 1: how we heard the Gospel. So we're the beneficiaries of
22:29
Speaker 1: the scenes. That doesn't make us as scenes. We're Christians,
22:32
Speaker 1: the scenes converted to Christianity. Because these scenes weren't perfect either.
22:35
Speaker 1: They had to be corrected on some things, not nearly
22:38
Speaker 1: as much as the Pharisees and Sadducees. But for example,
22:42
Speaker 1: one one thing that they took oaths really seriously, which
22:45
Speaker 1: you know we should, there's nothing wrong with that, but
22:47
Speaker 1: in some of their writing, I mean, they would get
22:49
Speaker 1: to the point where, like even in their rules and
22:51
Speaker 1: stuff like if if if somebody breaks an oath or
22:54
Speaker 1: if some somebody does this certain thing, you basically ostracize them,
22:58
Speaker 1: I mean, and there's almost like Almos to the point
23:00
Speaker 1: of like hating them and uh And it's funny because
23:03
Speaker 1: it reminds me of when when Jesus and when they
23:07
Speaker 1: went to uh uh the Samaritans and and they were like,
23:11
Speaker 1: should should we just rain fire and just kill all
23:14
Speaker 1: these guys? And but that that's how they were, you know,
23:16
Speaker 1: and they were likely as scenes too, That's how they
23:19
Speaker 1: were taught as the scenes. They were taught just kind
23:21
Speaker 1: of in that way. And Jesus like, no, no, no, no,
23:24
Speaker 1: you need yeah, you need some correction to so so
23:28
Speaker 1: and that that's one of the things I wanted to
23:29
Speaker 1: get across in the book. It's it's not that you know,
23:31
Speaker 1: we're not a scenes. We we don't we we shouldn't
23:34
Speaker 1: look at the Dead Sea scrolls and think that we're
23:35
Speaker 1: gonna convert to a scenes. We're we're a scene. Is
23:38
Speaker 1: like pre Christianity almost they needed some correction as well,
23:43
Speaker 1: and not as as major theological stuff is like the
23:46
Speaker 1: Pharisees or Sadducees would have needed. But on some things
23:49
Speaker 1: they weren't quite there. Jesus got them there, so uh so.
23:54
Speaker 1: But it's interesting just the context of how we got
23:57
Speaker 1: the gospel, how the Gospel was originally presented what the
24:00
Speaker 1: people group are looking forward to even before Christ was born.
24:04
Speaker 1: All of that, I mean, it just adds so much
24:06
Speaker 1: context and richness to our history, into Jewish history.
24:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, to me, it is pretty amazing the
24:12
Speaker 2: extra context that we get. And to see again, this
24:16
Speaker 2: is that they were well known by Josephus, and Josepha
24:19
Speaker 2: has been around. He talked about this other group, and
24:22
Speaker 2: he's very clear as well talking about their theology. There's
24:26
Speaker 2: several passages that speak they were very strongly the sovereignty
24:30
Speaker 2: of God, they strongly in predestination, some of these other
24:34
Speaker 2: interesting things. In contrast to the Phariseason that says she's
24:39
Speaker 2: you have a chapter in the book on the Dead
24:43
Speaker 2: Sea Scrolls and the New Testament.
24:45
Speaker 3: Let's talk about that. I mean, what what.
24:48
Speaker 2: Connections are there between the New Testament and what was
24:52
Speaker 2: discovered in the scroll?
24:53
Speaker 3: Yeah?
24:54
Speaker 1: Well, amazingly. A lot of it is that some of
24:57
Speaker 1: the apostles were likely at scenes as well. You just
24:59
Speaker 1: need to look at you know, their theology, of their
25:02
Speaker 1: teachings and even the stuff, like I mentioned before, the
25:04
Speaker 1: stuff that they needed to be corrected on. So it's
25:07
Speaker 1: amazing that even though we don't get the word a
25:10
Speaker 1: scene in the New Testament, we still get them as people.
25:14
Speaker 1: So in that chapter was where I talked about how
25:17
Speaker 1: Paul likely converted to a scene theology. I mean, of
25:22
Speaker 1: course Christian, but at that time they were kind of
25:25
Speaker 1: one and the same. They were like these scenes were
25:27
Speaker 1: becoming Christian. But so all the Damascus stuff that we
25:30
Speaker 1: talked about before, but also Paul said that he was
25:33
Speaker 1: gone for like three years. Well the scenes in the
25:37
Speaker 1: it was either community rule or Damascus document. I think
25:40
Speaker 1: is community rule, but I have it in the book.
25:42
Speaker 1: But in there they describe what their process is for
25:46
Speaker 1: a new initiate. If somebody wants to become part of
25:49
Speaker 1: the Kumran community, what do they have to do, and
25:53
Speaker 1: there are certain oaths, but it's a three year long process.
25:56
Speaker 1: And so with that with the Damascus stuff, and I mean,
25:59
Speaker 1: you think about it, Paul started as a Pharisee. He
26:01
Speaker 1: certainly didn't end that way. So if you're if you're
26:04
Speaker 1: Paul and you're a pharisee and you're so much a
26:06
Speaker 1: Pharisee that you're slaughtering other people because you think you're
26:09
Speaker 1: doing what God wants you to do, and then you're
26:11
Speaker 1: on a path to to maybe Kumran. You're you're you're
26:15
Speaker 1: on this path to Damascus, and then you see Jesus
26:19
Speaker 1: and he confronts you and you realize, oh my gosh,
26:22
Speaker 1: I've been wrong. These scenes were right, Well, what are
26:25
Speaker 1: you gonna do? You're probably gonna go and want to
26:26
Speaker 1: try to join up with them. And so I don't
26:29
Speaker 1: think that three year thing is an accident. I don't
26:31
Speaker 1: think anything that's mentioned in the Bible is an accident,
26:33
Speaker 1: like even the locusts, like all this stuff. So the
26:36
Speaker 1: three year thing, I think that's meant to point back
26:38
Speaker 1: to that that was the time for a new initiate
26:41
Speaker 1: of the Kumran community. So it doesn't spell it out
26:45
Speaker 1: and you know exactly, so I can't say for sure
26:47
Speaker 1: that's what it is, but I think it's likely. So
26:51
Speaker 1: we see remnants of that in the New Testament. Also,
26:53
Speaker 1: when Paul talks about there's you know, some call a
26:56
Speaker 1: sect and the way, he's not just talking about a
26:59
Speaker 1: random group of people. That's the Kumran community. That's what
27:01
Speaker 1: they called themselves. They called themselves the way, So just
27:04
Speaker 1: seeing them in the New Testament like that, And then
27:06
Speaker 1: of course there's a bunch of dead sea scroll lines
27:10
Speaker 1: and pieces that are quoted in the New Testament. One
27:14
Speaker 1: for example, when John the Baptist was in prison and
27:18
Speaker 1: he sent somebody to go ask Jesus like, are you
27:20
Speaker 1: the one? Or should we wait for another? And a
27:23
Speaker 1: lot of people, a lot of Christians nowadays, when they
27:25
Speaker 1: read that, it's like, did John have a moment of doubt?
27:27
Speaker 1: It not exactly, I mean, I think it was. I
27:30
Speaker 1: think he just wanted to be sure he had the
27:32
Speaker 1: right interpretation. He was already sold on Jesus. He knew
27:35
Speaker 1: Jesus was the Messiah, so he just wanted to be sure,
27:38
Speaker 1: like all right, like when he asked it specifically that way,
27:42
Speaker 1: he wasn't asking are you the Messiah or is it
27:44
Speaker 1: some other guy? When he said should we wait for another?
27:47
Speaker 1: The Pharisees had this idea that there would be like
27:49
Speaker 1: two messiahs. There would be one that would come and
27:51
Speaker 1: do something when some war, then there would be another
27:53
Speaker 1: one that would come later and do something else. And
27:55
Speaker 1: you know, they had a much different interpretation, and.
27:59
Speaker 2: I mean just they had the Messia bend v the
28:01
Speaker 2: conquering Messiah, and then Messiah ben Joseph, the Messiah son
28:03
Speaker 2: of Joseph the suffering one.
28:05
Speaker 3: So it is interesting there.
28:07
Speaker 2: And you know in Matthew eleven, as you mentioned, you
28:09
Speaker 2: know John the Baptist comes or send somebody to ask.
28:13
Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean I know what you're talking about.
28:15
Speaker 2: So let's let's yeah, this is good. I remember writing
28:18
Speaker 2: a paper on this, so I mean you did.
28:19
Speaker 3: Yeah.
28:20
Speaker 1: The time we do these, I find out you've written
28:22
Speaker 1: papers and articles on all this stuff that I've studied,
28:24
Speaker 1: You're gonna start thinking I'm stealing this.
28:26
Speaker 2: This is but to talk about this because I think this,
28:29
Speaker 2: this particular question in Matthew eleven is very very important.
28:34
Speaker 1: Very Yeah. So he wasn't asking like are you the
28:36
Speaker 1: messiahs at somebody else? Basically what he was asking is
28:39
Speaker 1: like are they a scenes writer or the Pharisees? Right?
28:41
Speaker 1: I just want to be sure, like, uh, is there
28:43
Speaker 1: going to be another? Or are you it? Or do
28:45
Speaker 1: these scenes got it right? Because these scenes just believed
28:47
Speaker 1: that there was gonna be one Messiah, uh, two Cummings,
28:50
Speaker 1: which is interesting because they they it's written in I
28:54
Speaker 1: think it's eleven q Melkezidek or one of one of these.
28:57
Speaker 1: I have it in the book again, but it's specific
29:00
Speaker 1: written what the Messiah was gonna come and do and
29:04
Speaker 1: and that he was gonna die for transgressions or something.
29:07
Speaker 1: They didn't have all of it, but they had a
29:09
Speaker 1: lot more than the Pharisees did. So what's interesting is
29:14
Speaker 1: what answer does Jesus give back to go send to John.
29:18
Speaker 1: He says, well, basically, here's the list of things that
29:21
Speaker 1: the Messiah is prophesied to do. Tell him, I've done these, yep,
29:26
Speaker 1: and all of them makes sense. I think there's six
29:28
Speaker 1: of them. All all of them except one is from
29:31
Speaker 1: the Old Testament. There's one though, that's not from the
29:33
Speaker 1: Old Testament, and it's raising the dead. So nowhere in
29:36
Speaker 1: the Old Testament is it prophesied that the Messiah is
29:39
Speaker 1: going to raise the dead when he comes back. But
29:41
Speaker 1: Jesus was using that as proof. Well, why well, because
29:45
Speaker 1: that was from a Dead Sea scroll called I believe
29:49
Speaker 1: it was the Messianic Apocalypse.
29:51
Speaker 3: Yeah, M six or something like that.
29:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, And in that there's a specific prophecy that the
29:56
Speaker 1: Messiah will raise the dead. So in saying that he's
30:00
Speaker 1: telling he's telling John like, don't worry, like, you got
30:02
Speaker 1: it right, That's that's correct. The scene interpretation is, uh,
30:07
Speaker 1: you have it right. You don't got to wait for
30:09
Speaker 1: another on the one, and so that that's amazing. We
30:12
Speaker 1: now we get that, we get the story, we get
30:14
Speaker 1: the account in the Gospels, but we don't get that
30:17
Speaker 1: that actual fragment that that that says that prophecy.
30:20
Speaker 3: And in fact it's it's it's in exact order.
30:22
Speaker 2: Yes, it's when the way that Matthew right, the way
30:25
Speaker 2: Jesus says it, it's in exact order as the Dead
30:28
Speaker 2: Sea Scroll text. You're like that, that's incredible to see
30:32
Speaker 2: the connection there.
30:33
Speaker 1: Yeah. So so it shows us that, like even Jesus
30:36
Speaker 1: endorsed the Dead Sea Scrolls. And and I want to be
30:38
Speaker 1: careful on how I say that, because I'm not saying
30:40
Speaker 1: that necessarily we should look at them as inspired texts today.
30:44
Speaker 1: They may have been for the time, maybe they are,
30:48
Speaker 1: but yeah, that understanding there, yes, yeah, yeah. When I
30:52
Speaker 1: think when the when the Bible specifically quotes something, at
30:56
Speaker 1: least that quote, at least that thing you can take
30:58
Speaker 1: to the bank that it's that's inspired. Because there's there's
31:02
Speaker 1: this big question that people, you know, wonder about, like
31:04
Speaker 1: and people are hesitant to read the Dead Sea Scrolls
31:06
Speaker 1: because it's like, you know, I just want to deal
31:08
Speaker 1: with the Bible. The Bible is inspired. I know that
31:10
Speaker 1: this other stuff I'm not sure about. And I say, well,
31:13
Speaker 1: the safest, the safest way to look at it as history.
31:15
Speaker 1: This is what the scenes believed. This is how their
31:18
Speaker 1: beliefs led them and their interpretations of the Old Testament,
31:21
Speaker 1: because there's a ton of commentary, this is how that
31:23
Speaker 1: led them to figure out to know that Jesus was
31:27
Speaker 1: the Messiah with very little convincing. They just already knew that.
31:30
Speaker 1: And so it's interesting to get the context. And like
31:33
Speaker 1: I've said before, Ken Johnson wrote the forward of the books,
31:37
Speaker 1: and he's said this many times before too. I actually
31:39
Speaker 1: got this from him, but that there's nothing in the
31:41
Speaker 1: Dead Sea scroll that changes the Bible. There's nothing that
31:44
Speaker 1: changes anything. But it does add a lot of context
31:48
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of understanding. Somebody might say, yeah,
31:51
Speaker 1: well the Kumran and Syria thing is changing it. It's
31:55
Speaker 1: not changing it. If it's right, then we were wrong
31:58
Speaker 1: to begin with and we should want to be right.
32:00
Speaker 1: If if the Dead Sea Scrolls were wrong on that point,
32:04
Speaker 1: or if I'm just interpreting it wrong or whatever, it
32:06
Speaker 1: doesn't really change anything. I mean, the the accounts still
32:09
Speaker 1: the same, Paul's faith is still the same. Everything still
32:11
Speaker 1: lines up. So there's nothing theologically or there's nothing like
32:14
Speaker 1: foundational to the faith that actually gets changed at all.
32:17
Speaker 1: It just adds a lot of context and just some
32:19
Speaker 1: really cool revelations.
32:20
Speaker 3: Yeah, it really does. I mean they're there.
32:22
Speaker 2: I think the phraseology in Luke sixteen about the sons
32:25
Speaker 2: of light, Yeah, I mean that's that's an unusual phrase
32:29
Speaker 2: in the New Testament, and.
32:31
Speaker 1: Yet it appears very usual and yeah, very exactly.
32:34
Speaker 2: You're like, and Jesus himself uses that, you know, it
32:37
Speaker 2: talks about the suns of light being you know, being
32:40
Speaker 2: less shrewd, not as shrewd as the sons of darkness.
32:43
Speaker 2: But you know, we're there's so much we could discuss here,
32:47
Speaker 2: you know again, you have another chapter on Baptism and
32:49
Speaker 2: Messiah and Prophecy Damascus.
32:52
Speaker 3: Uh even, and but we can't, we can't.
32:55
Speaker 2: We can't get away, I think, uh in this conversation
32:58
Speaker 2: because you you talk so much as well about the
33:02
Speaker 2: Kumran calendar and the Asscene calendar, and that always brings
33:05
Speaker 2: up a lot of discussion. Give us a kind of
33:09
Speaker 2: a short synopsis of you know, the differences between what
33:14
Speaker 2: we I mean today and just give us the background today.
33:17
Speaker 2: What is I think is I should have looked at
33:20
Speaker 2: it on the if you go to Israel today, for them,
33:24
Speaker 2: they're not necessarily talking about the year twenty twenty four, right.
33:27
Speaker 2: You know, they have a Hebrew calendar day, so if
33:30
Speaker 2: the Hebrew calendar, you have the Asne calendar, and if
33:35
Speaker 2: there's any other Jewish calendars, talk about that and how
33:39
Speaker 2: the Asscene calendar is different than what we have today.
33:42
Speaker 1: Yeah. So the main thing that happened, and we've had
33:44
Speaker 1: to piece this together just through other intertestamental histories and
33:49
Speaker 1: den Sea Spuroll stuff. And it's interesting because there's a
33:52
Speaker 1: prophecy and book at ju Belieze about this. But basically
33:55
Speaker 1: what happened, from what we can piece together, this probably
33:58
Speaker 1: was when in Antiochus epiphanies, Antiochus four epiphanies, you know,
34:04
Speaker 1: I was doing his whole thing. It likely was that time,
34:07
Speaker 1: maybe maybe the guy after him, Antipater or whatever.
34:12
Speaker 3: Roughly, but just for people one sixty five or so.
34:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, So, so Israel gets invaded and from from what
34:18
Speaker 1: we can kind of piece together, the general story is
34:22
Speaker 1: Antiochus or or whoever was like, okay, we'll let you
34:27
Speaker 1: do some of your Jewish things. We're taking those Greeks. Yeah,
34:32
Speaker 1: you know, we'll we'll let you still do some of
34:34
Speaker 1: your Jewish things, but you have to adopt our calendar.
34:36
Speaker 1: And they had a lunar calendar. They had a pagan
34:39
Speaker 1: lunar calendar because yeah, again the solucids and stuff. So
34:44
Speaker 1: some of Israel, some of the ruling class and Israel said, okay,
34:47
Speaker 1: that's a good deal. We don't get slaughtered and and
34:49
Speaker 1: we just have to do this pagan calendar. And so
34:52
Speaker 1: some of them went along with that, which was wrong
34:55
Speaker 1: because another group said, that's completely ridiculous. We're not doing
34:59
Speaker 1: that because their their calendar, they originally had a solar calendar,
35:04
Speaker 1: and their their calendar was so important for when to
35:07
Speaker 1: do certain feasts and festivals and rituals and things with
35:11
Speaker 1: the temple, and and we read that all over in
35:13
Speaker 1: the Old Testament. It was really important to God that
35:15
Speaker 1: these these things are done on certain days. Well, if
35:17
Speaker 1: you have a different calendar, you're not going to be
35:19
Speaker 1: able to do that. So that was part of the split,
35:23
Speaker 1: and that that's part of what in a.
35:25
Speaker 3: Way, you're gonna split within the Jewish within the.
35:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, within the Jewish world. What what kind of created
35:29
Speaker 1: the you know, the scenes the phariseeason sadducies like, uh,
35:32
Speaker 1: there was more to it than that, but I mean,
35:34
Speaker 1: we could talk for two hours if we get into
35:35
Speaker 1: all the history. So the ones that wanted to keep
35:38
Speaker 1: the solar calendar, I think I think at first they
35:43
Speaker 1: went to like Egypt for a little while, but eventually
35:44
Speaker 1: they ended up in uh in Kumran and they they
35:48
Speaker 1: settled there, so they kept their solar calendar. And what's
35:52
Speaker 1: interesting is uh people have been able Ken Johnson's one
35:56
Speaker 1: of them, has been able to piece together through the
35:59
Speaker 1: Dead Sea scrolls from the Dead Sea Squirrel's piece together
36:01
Speaker 1: this calendar and exactly how it works. And you can
36:04
Speaker 1: take that calendar. You can apply that to any book
36:07
Speaker 1: of the Bible that has anything to do with day
36:09
Speaker 1: counts or calendar or anything, and it fits from Genesis
36:12
Speaker 1: to Revelation. This calendar is like perfect, it just fits
36:15
Speaker 1: all every book. And that to me was mind blowing.
36:20
Speaker 1: You can't do that with the Pharisee calendar, which is
36:24
Speaker 1: basically that's what the Jewish people are using today. Basically,
36:29
Speaker 1: it doesn't work the Luter calendar doesn't work. But when
36:33
Speaker 1: you plug that in and I do it in the book,
36:36
Speaker 1: there's three main areas where I did that, the flood
36:39
Speaker 1: of Noah, the time that Moses spent with God on
36:43
Speaker 1: the mountain, and then a bunch of prophetic stuff. Because
36:45
Speaker 1: you can apply that, you can apply that same calendar
36:48
Speaker 1: to like, you know, twelve sixty days, twelve ninety days,
36:50
Speaker 1: you know what are all these day counts? And they
36:52
Speaker 1: fall on certain festivals. The other interesting thing about the
36:56
Speaker 1: Asscene calendar, there's extra festivals, and it actually makes sense
37:00
Speaker 1: that there would be. So in the in the modern
37:03
Speaker 1: Jewish calendar there's seven seven festivals, festivals, piece days whatever.
37:09
Speaker 1: Well in the Assine one there's twelve. Well, we have
37:13
Speaker 1: a prophecy that says, you know, such and such is
37:17
Speaker 1: going to happen for time times and half a time.
37:21
Speaker 1: Well that that word time is modem and it's talking
37:23
Speaker 1: about festival cycles. You could year is an okay translation,
37:27
Speaker 1: but it's not exact. So it's it is technically three
37:32
Speaker 1: and a half years, but how they count those years
37:34
Speaker 1: is based on the modem cycles that have to do
37:37
Speaker 1: with the festivals. You can't have half with seven, you know,
37:41
Speaker 1: I mean, how do you have time? And times makes sense,
37:44
Speaker 1: but how do you have half a time? If you
37:46
Speaker 1: have seven festivals, it would have to be a whole
37:49
Speaker 1: number because you can't just split a festival in half
37:51
Speaker 1: and think that festival is done. Makes perfect sense. On
37:54
Speaker 1: the Assine calendar, they have twelve, so it's six and
37:56
Speaker 1: six would be half. So that's another interesting thing. The
38:01
Speaker 1: way they broke down their calendar is really interesting too,
38:04
Speaker 1: and ties into a lot of prophecy. And this seems
38:07
Speaker 1: to be what this is usually what most people are
38:09
Speaker 1: interested in the.
38:10
Speaker 3: Hearing, so given them interesting things.
38:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, so the way that we have like decades and
38:14
Speaker 1: centuries and millennium stuff like that, they had something similar,
38:17
Speaker 1: but it was based mostly around sevens and five. So
38:20
Speaker 1: they had jubilee which was seven years, They had or
38:24
Speaker 1: sorry Ashmida, which was seven years. They had a jubilee
38:26
Speaker 1: which was fifty years. They had an ona which was
38:28
Speaker 1: five hundred years, and they had an age which was
38:31
Speaker 1: two thousand years, and then they had prophecies of what
38:34
Speaker 1: things would happen in each of those time spans. Well,
38:37
Speaker 1: they had that for their own time, they also had
38:38
Speaker 1: it for our time too, so according to the a
38:41
Speaker 1: scene calendar, there would be basically four ages. It's technically
38:45
Speaker 1: like three and a half the but it's all based
38:47
Speaker 1: on the week, so there's seven days in a week,
38:50
Speaker 1: and ages two thousand years, so you have three of those,
38:53
Speaker 1: so that's six thousand years, and then you have a
38:55
Speaker 1: thousand year Sabbath, which to us is the millennial reign
38:58
Speaker 1: of Christ. They've alway believed that. They always believed at
39:01
Speaker 1: the end of the six thousandth year would be this
39:04
Speaker 1: thousand year where the Messiah would reign and rule on earth.
39:07
Speaker 1: So that's not that wasn't new to revelation. That's that's
39:11
Speaker 1: been believed for hundreds of years before that. So they
39:16
Speaker 1: thought of the first age, the Age of Creation, which
39:20
Speaker 1: would have been from the time of Creation to the
39:23
Speaker 1: call of Abraham, and then from the call of Abraham
39:26
Speaker 1: to seventy five AD would have been the Age of Torah.
39:31
Speaker 1: And then from seventy five AD two And this is
39:34
Speaker 1: where I got a I'm gonna have to give a
39:36
Speaker 1: real big caveat after I give this year. But from
39:38
Speaker 1: seventy five AD till twenty seventy five AD is the
39:42
Speaker 1: Church Age. Now, before anybody freaks out and says, well,
39:44
Speaker 1: we gotta wait till twenty seventy five for the rapture.
39:47
Speaker 1: We gotta wait. I'm not saying that. Think about the
39:50
Speaker 1: Torah Age. The Torah Age, according to the Assine calendar,
39:52
Speaker 1: ended in seventy five AD. When did Jesus come and
39:55
Speaker 1: do all of his stuff? He didn't wait till seventy
39:56
Speaker 1: five AD. He came pretty early in that final fifty years,
39:59
Speaker 1: at f final jubilee. And that's actually where the subtitle
40:03
Speaker 1: of my book comes from, Unlocking the What is it?
40:06
Speaker 1: I gotta look at it? No, Unlocking the final jubilee
40:08
Speaker 1: of the church age, because we're about to enter into
40:12
Speaker 1: our final jubilee, our final fifty years, which will be
40:15
Speaker 1: roughly from twenty twenty five to twenty seventy five technically,
40:19
Speaker 1: just because the calendars are different. Technically, I think it's
40:22
Speaker 1: like early to mid March of twenty twenty six to
40:26
Speaker 1: around that same time twenty seventy six, but calendars are
40:31
Speaker 1: a little different, so it's but basically we're about to
40:34
Speaker 1: enter into that time. And when we look at all
40:37
Speaker 1: of the prophecies that Jesus fulfilled at the end of
40:39
Speaker 1: the Torah Age, he chose to do that really early
40:43
Speaker 1: in their final jubilee, so like Jesus was crucified, likely
40:50
Speaker 1: thirty two AD, give or take a year, but likely
40:54
Speaker 1: it was thirty two AD. That's also when Pentecosts happened.
40:57
Speaker 1: That's when we would say the church Age started to
41:00
Speaker 1: the scenes. It's like they would have saw that they
41:04
Speaker 1: tended to see these final jubilees or these final time
41:07
Speaker 1: periods as a transition period between ages. So you kind
41:10
Speaker 1: of got both going on. You have the winding down
41:13
Speaker 1: of the Torah age and all the prophecies that needed
41:15
Speaker 1: to be fulfilled according to that, but then you had
41:17
Speaker 1: the ramping up of the church Age. So an example
41:20
Speaker 1: that I use in the book, it's like this, if
41:23
Speaker 1: I said that I'm going to have a birthday party,
41:26
Speaker 1: you know this Friday, Well, it doesn't mean that, you know,
41:29
Speaker 1: this Friday at three o'clock. It doesn't mean that Friday
41:31
Speaker 1: at three o'clock, I'm going to start doing stuff to
41:34
Speaker 1: prepare for the party. You know, that's when that's the
41:37
Speaker 1: time when everything should be prepared so we can finally
41:40
Speaker 1: start the birthday party at three o'clock on Friday. So
41:43
Speaker 1: you know Monday, I might order the cake, and Tuesday
41:46
Speaker 1: I might get the presence, and Wednesday I might like
41:49
Speaker 1: order the attractions, and you know, figure all that out.
41:51
Speaker 1: Then I might pick up the cake on Thursday or whatever.
41:54
Speaker 1: You know, there's all this preparatory stuff for the party,
41:57
Speaker 1: but the party doesn't start till three pm on Friday. Well,
42:00
Speaker 1: it's the same kind of thing. A lot of prophecy
42:02
Speaker 1: needed to be fulfilled for the church Age to officially begin.
42:06
Speaker 1: So the Messiah needed to die for our transgressions, we
42:09
Speaker 1: needed to raise from the dead, Pentecosts needed to happen,
42:11
Speaker 1: the Temple needed to be destroyed. There was just a
42:14
Speaker 1: lot of prophecy and it needed time for that, so
42:17
Speaker 1: that by the end of the end date for their age,
42:21
Speaker 1: which according to their calendar was seventy five seventy six
42:24
Speaker 1: a d. By that time we can officially say everything
42:28
Speaker 1: is in place to start the church Age. And that's
42:31
Speaker 1: what happened. So I think the same kind of thing
42:34
Speaker 1: the next time around. We have a lot that needs
42:36
Speaker 1: to happen still, not only the seven year tribulation that's
42:39
Speaker 1: obviously a big one and all the prophecies with that,
42:41
Speaker 1: and we don't know where to place that exactly, but
42:46
Speaker 1: we know from one that I like to think about
42:49
Speaker 1: is we know from the end of Ezekiel those last
42:52
Speaker 1: what seven eight nine chapters or so, there's going to
42:55
Speaker 1: be an immense temple, a city, and all of that
42:59
Speaker 1: needs to be built. And I really don't think, because
43:02
Speaker 1: he just has never done this before. I don't think
43:05
Speaker 1: that Jesus is gonna come down snap his fingers and
43:08
Speaker 1: it's just all there, it's just all built, it's all perfect.
43:10
Speaker 1: I think people are going to build that. And what's
43:12
Speaker 1: interesting is so there might be another transition period at
43:16
Speaker 1: the end of the Church Age. You could have and
43:18
Speaker 1: I'm not setting a date, but you could have an
43:19
Speaker 1: early rapture. Let's say a rapture could happen today, and
43:22
Speaker 1: then let's say, I don't know, in a year, a
43:25
Speaker 1: couple of months, the tribulation starts, whatever. Well after Jesus returns,
43:29
Speaker 1: you could have decades to get the world ready to
43:33
Speaker 1: start the Millennium Age, to start the because everything has
43:37
Speaker 1: to be in place before that first day can begin.
43:41
Speaker 1: So that temple's going to have to be built, that
43:43
Speaker 1: city's going to have to be built. What's interesting too,
43:45
Speaker 1: is Herod's temple took about forty years to build, So
43:50
Speaker 1: these things take a while. It takes decades. Also, when
43:54
Speaker 1: you think about it, there's not going to be I
43:56
Speaker 1: don't think me and you as glorified, glorified humans are
44:02
Speaker 1: gonna be building it. I think I think the actual
44:04
Speaker 1: humans that there's not gonna be many, but the very few. Yeah,
44:08
Speaker 1: the very few that survive and make it through the tribulation.
44:12
Speaker 1: I believe that those are gonna be the ones. Because
44:14
Speaker 1: when you read in Ezekiel, when it talks about the priests,
44:17
Speaker 1: it gives like specific instructions like, well, if the priest
44:21
Speaker 1: is married, this or they have to do this or that. Well, okay,
44:23
Speaker 1: that's not us. We're not gonna be priest. We're not
44:25
Speaker 1: gonna be married. If if a priest sweats on his garment,
44:28
Speaker 1: then we need to do that. I don't think we're
44:30
Speaker 1: gonna sweat in our glorified body. I mean, I can't
44:32
Speaker 1: say for sure. I guess, but you know, unlikely. Yeah,
44:34
Speaker 1: I just see it's it's it's unlikely. And so I
44:36
Speaker 1: think that these are humans that this is talking about.
44:39
Speaker 1: So it makes sense that it would be humans that
44:41
Speaker 1: would be building the temple and the UH and the
44:44
Speaker 1: U and the city, and maybe they get helped by
44:46
Speaker 1: with angels and maybe by us. I don't know. I
44:48
Speaker 1: don't think so, but uh, that would take time. So
44:53
Speaker 1: all of that to say, because I get this comment
44:55
Speaker 1: so much. The very first time I mentioned twenty seventy five,
44:59
Speaker 1: I always see it in the YouTube comments, people freak out.
45:01
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna make it that long. The way that
45:03
Speaker 1: the world is going, I cannot see it lasting until
45:06
Speaker 1: twenty seventy five. I'm not saying that it could be,
45:08
Speaker 1: but I don't think so. I think that we're probably
45:11
Speaker 1: gonna be out of here a lot sooner than that.
45:13
Speaker 1: Who knows for sure, But there are ways where this
45:16
Speaker 1: could all work out and still have it be twenty
45:18
Speaker 1: seventy five and have it all make perfect sense. I mean,
45:21
Speaker 1: how long does it take to get the rest of
45:23
Speaker 1: the world to understand the new rules, Like if you
45:25
Speaker 1: don't go to tabernacles, you're gonna get plagued, So how
45:29
Speaker 1: long does it take to get all of this set up?
45:31
Speaker 1: And it's not gonna be overnight? I mean, how could
45:34
Speaker 1: it be? So there are ways that all of this
45:38
Speaker 1: can work out. I don't want people to freak out
45:40
Speaker 1: about twenty seventy five. I'm sure they still will in
45:43
Speaker 1: the comments section. I can't seem to escape it. But
45:47
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, following the pattern of how the end
45:51
Speaker 1: of the Torah Age, how that concluded, hope, I hope
45:58
Speaker 1: that Jesus returns Earth in our final jubilee. You know,
46:01
Speaker 1: we'll see that that That's that's my hope.
46:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think one of the things that I
46:06
Speaker 2: even you know, just in the sense of understanding that
46:11
Speaker 2: thirty two thirty three eighty, like you said, you know,
46:14
Speaker 2: Jesus is there. He ascended that, you know, two thousand
46:18
Speaker 2: years is coming up.
46:20
Speaker 1: That's an age.
46:20
Speaker 3: It's an age.
46:21
Speaker 2: And I find that that very fascinating, that that that
46:25
Speaker 2: the Lord would allow the Church to have two thousand
46:29
Speaker 2: years of a witness on earth and that's coming up
46:33
Speaker 2: here in you know eight years, you know, eight nine years,
46:36
Speaker 2: which isn't long as it relates to that.
46:39
Speaker 3: And so yeah, we know the.
46:39
Speaker 2: Rapture can happen anytime, but in the sense of wrapping
46:42
Speaker 2: up the church, you know, if the Church is you know,
46:48
Speaker 2: going to be a witness for two thousand years, again,
46:52
Speaker 2: we don't have this as a fact, but right and
46:54
Speaker 2: you know, especially as well, in some of the details
46:57
Speaker 2: of our Gregorian calendar. You know, if you study that
47:02
Speaker 2: out there, that's not there's no guarantee that there isn't
47:07
Speaker 2: things lost.
47:08
Speaker 1: It's impossible to be exact. And that might be by
47:11
Speaker 1: design because clearly God does not want us to know
47:13
Speaker 1: exactly when the rapture, and that's for our benefit anyway,
47:17
Speaker 1: if we knew that, that would be all we'd be
47:18
Speaker 1: thinking about. Like, if I knew the rapture is not
47:21
Speaker 1: going to happen for ten years, am I going to
47:22
Speaker 1: be really motivated to Like how motivated I get. I
47:26
Speaker 1: would still be motivated to go and witness and make
47:28
Speaker 1: you know, you know, get people saved. But whereas it
47:32
Speaker 1: could happen today, that's way more motivating, I think. So,
47:36
Speaker 1: you know, God, in all of his wisdom, I think
47:39
Speaker 1: he's keeping that one close to the vest just and
47:41
Speaker 1: for very good reason.
47:42
Speaker 2: Ye he knows human nature and anyways forgotten prophecies that
47:47
Speaker 2: Dizzy scrolls two volumes. Josh, it's been awesome talking about this,
47:50
Speaker 2: and you know again you can go to prophecy watchers
47:53
Speaker 2: and we didn't get into even.
47:54
Speaker 1: Oh there's so much well, we would be here for
47:56
Speaker 1: two days. Yeah, exactly everything.
47:58
Speaker 2: I didn't get everything, but again to me, it's extremely
48:01
Speaker 2: fascinating and the way you developed this as well, So
48:04
Speaker 2: thank you, appreciate you. Everybody listening today Again if you
48:07
Speaker 2: just as a reminder, subscribe to the channel. Also join
48:11
Speaker 2: us in Branson come December. It's going to be a
48:14
Speaker 2: good time December fifth through eighth. Props to watchers do
48:17
Speaker 2: com check it out and appreciate you listening. We'll catch
48:20
Speaker 2: you all next time.