Latest / The Dr. Sarah Hensley Show / Episode 13, Season 1: What Happens to the Brain After Relational/Emotional Trauma

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Episode 13, Season 1: What Happens to the Brain After Relational/Emotional Trauma · The Dr. Sarah Hensley Show

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Love Doc podcast. I'm your co host
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Raina Butcher here with our host, doctor Sarah Hensley, the
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: owner and CEO of The Dating Decoder.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: Hi.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: Hi Today, Episode thirteen, Episode thirteen Lucky thirteen is what
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: happens to the brain after trauma.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and specifically we're talking about emotional trauma slash relational trauma. Yeah,
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: it's not great, but I want to start this off
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: before we scare people about how your brain changes. That
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: the brain is incredibly neuroplastic, meaning that these changes are
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: largely reversible with the right work, with the right healing work.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: The brain fascinates me. So any any episode we do
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: on the brain, I get really excited because I just
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: want to like hone in because I mean, this is
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: sort of like I feel like your specialty, and I
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: think it really fascinates people.
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because there's a neurological component to so much relationship science.
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: There's a neurological component to attachment. So I did a
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: TikTok the other day on the different attachment styles and
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: how their brain develops, right, and the different how the
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: way that their brain is shaped based on their attachment.
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  Speaker 2: And Yeah, relational trauma does create some issues in the brain.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: It does change the brain, especially if there's a the
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: level of abuse.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. So I mean, obviously we've talked about abuse in
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: the different forms.
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: Of abuse, and yeah, we've covered that.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's physical, emotional, financial, even neglect to a
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  Speaker 1: certain degree is abuse. So if you've been let's just say,
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: let's take a scenario where there's no physical yep, right,
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: so it's just emotional abuse, which can look like a
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  Speaker 1: number of different things. So in those scenarios, what happens
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  Speaker 1: to the brain to where why people get specifically stuck.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: Yes, so there's a number of changes that take place.
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  Speaker 2: The three most important structures that are affected are one
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  Speaker 2: the frontal lobes of the brain. So right behind your
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: forehead you have your frontal lobes of the brain known
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  Speaker 2: as the prefrontal cortex. And this part of the brain
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  Speaker 2: is our human part of the brain. So it's the
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  Speaker 2: part of the brain that differentiates us from animals, and
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  Speaker 2: it's where all of our executive function lives. Okay. An
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  Speaker 2: executive function is rational thinking, planning, understanding, action to consequence,
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  Speaker 2: self control. Okay, The really important parts of our brain that,
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  Speaker 2: when firing, make us a kind open, calm, loving and
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: respectful person who makes good decisions. Okay, when we have
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  Speaker 2: relational trauma and emotional trauma, I should say, the prefrontal
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  Speaker 2: cortex starts to thin, so we don't have as much
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: activity there, so it's sort of like it shrinks. Okay.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: Then we have the amygdala, and the amygdala is like
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: an almond shaped structure in the midbrain. So if you
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: were to stick your fingers in your ears and make
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: it to the center, okay, you would hit the limbic
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: system or the midbrain, and the little almond shaped structure
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  Speaker 2: of the amygdala, it grows, so it enlarges, and the
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  Speaker 2: amygdala is the threat detection center of the brain. It's
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: responsible for fear and sort of detecting that you're unsafe,
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: and it plays a role in anger as well, okay,
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  Speaker 2: in emotional high emotional reactivity. And then we have the hippocampus,
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: which is the structure further back in the brain that
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: is largely responsible for memory. Okay, and there's different types
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: of memory. We have long term memory, we have working memory,
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: we have there's lots of different types of memory. Okay,
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  Speaker 2: you can google that. But but that starts to shrink,
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  Speaker 2: so let's go through what we see when those three
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  Speaker 2: structures are impacted in that way. When the prefrontal cortex thins, obviously,
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  Speaker 2: we see a reduction in our executive functioning. So we
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  Speaker 2: see more poor impulse control. We see people that aren't
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: able to have a lot of forethought in their behavior.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: So if I do this thing, what's gonna What are
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: gonna be the long term consequences? Right? We see poor planning,
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  Speaker 2: We see just a lot, I mean, the lack of
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  Speaker 2: self control in a lot of areas of life. Yeah,
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  Speaker 2: so poor impulse control, but also just reduced self regulation
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  Speaker 2: ability in general. Right, not just like you're making a
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  Speaker 2: lot of impulsive decisions, but you're throughout your life, like
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  Speaker 2: all the components of your life, you're gonna struggle to
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  Speaker 2: choice by choice, make the right choice.
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  Speaker 1: I wish i'd known all this time, right when I
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  Speaker 1: was with my ex, Yes, because I was making so
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  Speaker 1: many poor decisions.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm gonna set you up for addiction.
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  Speaker 1: It did, like well, I mean, it set me up
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  Speaker 1: to be addicted to cigarettes. I never had any really
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  Speaker 1: higher addictions than that. And even though I still don't smoke,
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  Speaker 1: I'm still addicted. I'll always be addicted. I will always
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  Speaker 1: be addicted to darantaine the rest of my life. It
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  Speaker 1: set me up to have compulsive shopping issues, compulsive I
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  Speaker 1: like to. I would go out, and of course it
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  Speaker 1: was it was like this vicious cycle because we would
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  Speaker 1: already be on the ropes, right, things would be shaky,
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  Speaker 1: things wouldn't be good. He was doing things like cheating habitually,
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  Speaker 1: and so then I would go out and I would
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  Speaker 1: like drop five hundred dollars at like Walmart on the
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  Speaker 1: stupidest shit ever. Yeah, and then he would get pissed, right,
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  Speaker 1: and then like the emotional, vicious, abusive cycle would just
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: go over and over and over again. And man, if
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: I'd had this knowledge at that time, one, it could
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  Speaker 1: have helped me defend myself a little bit better. And two,
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  Speaker 1: just you know, given maybe both of us the understanding
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  Speaker 1: of really what was going on.
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  Speaker 2: And maybe launch you in the direction of the right
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  Speaker 2: tools to heal.
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  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 2: I always say that knowledge doesn't heal you, but knowledge
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  Speaker 2: leads you to the tools that do right right right.
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  Speaker 2: So that's problematic for your life. If you if you
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  Speaker 2: have a low functioning prefrontal cortex, you're going to be impulsive.
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  Speaker 2: You're gonna have like less self regulation ability, You're gonna
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  Speaker 2: have reduced forethought. You're just going to be making poor
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: decisions in a number of ways. Yeah, it's gonna put
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: you more at risk for addictive behaviors. Okay, the amygdala,
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: you are going to have anxiety. It's going to cause
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  Speaker 2: you anxiety. If your threat detection system is enlarged in
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  Speaker 2: an overdrive, You're detecting threats all the time. It's going
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: to make you anxious. It's going to make you hypervigilant.
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  Speaker 2: It's going to make you fearful. It's going to increase
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  Speaker 2: your anger more on edge, more on edge, irritable, frustrated.
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  Speaker 1: Which also all these things lead to addiction.
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  Speaker 2: Absolutely, you're going to be highly emotionally reactive very quickly,
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  Speaker 2: so you're not very resilient to stressors. You're going to
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  Speaker 2: overreact to stressors. It's going to obviously have a big
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: impact on your mood if you're experiencing anxiety and a
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  Speaker 2: lot of depression can start to creep in because anxiety
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  Speaker 2: depression do you go hand in hand for There's a
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  Speaker 2: number of reasons for that that would take up too
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: much time. But you know you're more at risk for
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: depression and then the hippocampus. The hippocampus us shrinkage is
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: going to give you brain fog. It's going to impair
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  Speaker 2: your working memory, it's going to affect your concentration, it's
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  Speaker 2: going to impair your long term memory. I have so
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  Speaker 2: many clients that have had such horrible trauma. Gosh, compassion
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  Speaker 2: fatigue is really really real and secondary, you know, traumatization
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  Speaker 2: is real. Through my clients, I have to protect myself
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  Speaker 2: a lot, which is you know, it's hard, it's hard
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  Speaker 2: hearing people's horrible traumas. I mean, I have clients who's
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: like parents lock them in closets and beat them senseless, right,
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  Speaker 2: and they and they're like, I don't remember my childhood.
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  Speaker 2: I'm like, and then they what makes it worse is
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  Speaker 2: they have a partner that's constantly berating them for not
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  Speaker 2: remembering things. And I'm like, they have a reduced it's neurological,
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  Speaker 2: moological So of course they forgot to do what you
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  Speaker 2: asked them to do. They were beat as a child, right,
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  Speaker 2: they they're the matter in their h campus has shrunk,
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: and that there's reduced connectivity there, and so they're going
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: to walk into rooms a lot and forget why they
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  Speaker 2: walked in there. That sounds really, really familiar.
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  Speaker 1: I've had it right, Well, I mean there's so many
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  Speaker 1: there's so many traumatic moments within my relationship with my
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  Speaker 1: ex that I don't want to say I don't remember
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  Speaker 1: because they're there, but they're very foggy.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. I have an entire year of my life that
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  Speaker 2: I don't really remember. Yeah, right after my ex side,
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  Speaker 2: well it's probably it was. I won't say right after
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: he died. It was from because we had the death gasp, right,
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: we got divorced and then we got back together. That
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  Speaker 2: Most people have a death gasp, we believe it or not.
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  Speaker 2: I have a lot of a lot of married couples
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  Speaker 2: try to make it work one last time, even after
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  Speaker 2: they're divorced. From that situation to six months after his death.
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  Speaker 2: I don't it all runs together. It just all runs together. Yeah,
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  Speaker 2: you know, and so I can't. I don't have a
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  Speaker 2: great memory.
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  Speaker 1: I mean I spent eight years in Harlan, eight total years,
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  Speaker 1: and it all runs together. So much of it runs together,
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  Speaker 1: especially when we had just stopped living together. Of course
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  Speaker 1: we were never married, but i'd moved out. We had
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  Speaker 1: officially like separated and that's when things got really bad
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  Speaker 1: and we started going through our custody battle and that
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  Speaker 1: got really ugly. And there's just so much that I
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  Speaker 1: don't remember.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot I don't remember about my whole
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  Speaker 2: tenure marriage. I know my mom will bring up some things.
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  Speaker 2: There was always a crisis, right, There was always a crisis.
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  Speaker 2: And we've talked about this in the first episode. You think, Okay,
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  Speaker 2: if we can just get through this next crisis, and
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  Speaker 2: it's gonna be fine. But there's always another crisis, right,
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  Speaker 2: There's always You catch them cheating, you catch them lying,
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  Speaker 2: you catch them doing some you know they're abusive, and
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  Speaker 2: they cross your boundaries, and so there's my mom will
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: be like, do you remember when this happened?
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  Speaker 1: And I'm like, no, my that too, And I'm like, oh,
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  Speaker 1: my gosh.
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  Speaker 2: I don't remember that. Or even I'm just like, no,
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  Speaker 2: I can't recall that. But what I want people to
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: know is it gets better if you do the work,
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  Speaker 2: if you have the right tools, it gets better. Because
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  Speaker 2: the brain is so neuroplastic. You know, am I ever
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  Speaker 2: going to have the same memory. I've had a ton
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: of trauma. Maybe not, yeah, but I'm extremely functional and successful.
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  Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, occasionally, do I have a little brain
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  Speaker 2: fog maybe maybe yeah, but not anything compared to what
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  Speaker 2: I had before. So what I say, my brain's done
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  Speaker 2: a lot of healing. Absolutely, it's been a lot of healing,
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  Speaker 2: and a lot of those things can be reversed. Like
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  Speaker 2: I was crippled with anxiety, you know, and I'm not now.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's the idea which I've always been really
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  Speaker 1: fascinated with, and I feel like has kind of like
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: just gotten on the market in the past like a
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: few years in terms of recognition. But you know, this
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: idea of going back and parenting yourself the way that
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: you feel like you deserve to be parent parented. And
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  Speaker 1: I've actually practiced this idea a few times, and I've
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: had some really really pivotal moments. If it makes me
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: want to cry thinking about it, because you know, there
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: were you know, I could just my mom had some
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: anger issues growing up, and uh, there was one specific
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: moment when my parents were going through a divorce that
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: she had just had enough. She she just kept biding, braiding, berating, braiding,
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: trying to kind of like pound in my head. You
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: know that my father was just terrible and your father
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: and your father, and she would always say your father.
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  Speaker 1: And now like I'm I'm smart enough to know that
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  Speaker 1: it was so much of it. She was just in
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: so much pains, right.
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: And people that are in pain again, if they've had
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: relational trauma, and your mom had some trauma, Yeah, she
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: had trauma or childhood, she had other types of trauma.
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: Did she had a ton that she had poor ink pulse?
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  Speaker 2: Because she did at that point.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: She definitely did. And so again all I know, we
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: always have to preface it with this, but you know,
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  Speaker 1: my mother's no longer alive, and so she's not here
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: to defend herself. And she was a wonderful mother, but
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: she had some really really dark moments, and so in
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: this specific moment, you know, she Uh, I was at
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: my WIT's end. I was like seventeen, eighteen years old,
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  Speaker 1: and she had leaned on me one too many times
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: as a confidant and I couldn't handle it anymore and
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: I just didn't want to hear it.
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  Speaker 2: Well, that's my parentification and it's disparagement of the other parent,
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: which is very inappropriate, Yeah, and not something that you
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: should have had to have dealt with.
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  Speaker 1: And my reaction when she would do it would just
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: be like, you know, I'd just kind of like sink
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  Speaker 1: in and just be like and try to listen and
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: try to be your confidant. Well, on this specific day,
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: it was like the tipping point and I was over it.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: So I started laughing. I just laughed in her face,
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: and she punched me in the face. And so, man,
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: it's so hard to talk about because I.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: Know, I'm so sorry. I mean, I've known this, yeah.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: But I've so it's this really painful moment in my life.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: Because of course I didn't back down, right, I didn't
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: back down.
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: And I said, my best friend don't back down, okay.
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: Even from her own mother. So that tells you anything.
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: So no, in a mess with me, my best friend
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: doesn't back down people, no.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: And so of course when she punched me in the face,
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: I went fista raging right like, I was like all right,
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: like I fought back, and I mean it was a
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: full on knockdown, drag out and dang. So I've had
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: to I've had to use this tool right to where
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: in that moment, I've had to actually sit and visualize
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: how I would have wanted to be parented in that moment,
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: and it's really it's a beautiful tool. It is such
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: a beautiful tool.
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: And achieving your attachment security is a lot.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: Of it is it is, and it's But my point
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: in telling this story, this really painful story, is that
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: it's allowed me to release the pain from it. But
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: it's also I think changed my brain, right, It's changed
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: my brain in a way that has allowed me to
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: I don't want to say accept the situation. It's a
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: difficult situation to accept, but let go of the pain
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: of the situation.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: Well, the story became rewritten. And what I want people
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: to understand neurologically is that when we have let's say,
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: a memory over and over and over again, or a
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: thought over and over and over again, it creates a
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: groove in the brain right where you know you have
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: these channels. It looks like if you can imagine walking
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: over grass in the same spot, right. I think I've
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: used that analogy before, and you dig this groove in
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  Speaker 2: the brain. When you stop walking that path, the grass
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: grows back and you can shift it to a new path.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: So what you do in that moment when you're sort
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: of visualizing that reparenting, like, how do I want this
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: to go, and you couldn't sit and you can visualize
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: how you would have liked it to go and how
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: it should have gone, right, and sort of accept that
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: it went the way that it did, but that this
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: is how it should have gone, and you can hang
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: on to that. Then your brain shifts away from that
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: groove and you start to form a new groove, right,
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: so that that same associated emotion doesn't keep coming back
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: from that memory. So you're almost detaching yourself from the
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: memory by doing that. And there's some other great types
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: of therapies out there that really do wonders for the brain.
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: I would definitely suggest AMDR. I movement. It's like movement
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: desensitization therapy essentially, where you know, there's the brain is
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: sort of dissociating from the memories, the emotions are dissociating
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: from the actual memory based on using eye movement or
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: other rhythmic tools of sound while you discuss and think
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: about the memory. Right, there's ART, which is accelerated resolution therapy,
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: which is sort of almost like a form of am DR,
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: and it takes fewer sessions.
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: Well, and I know that I coach somebody who was
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: using play therapy to help from childhood winds, which was
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: I mean, he was using a sandbox. I know it
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: sounds kind of elementary.
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: But like he was, you know, there's some science there.
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And I think too like play play therapy can
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: be anything, right, It could be like painting, it can
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: anything that just kind of gets you in that creative
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: flow of feeling childlike, right, because I know so many
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: people who have you know, that experienced childhood trauma feel
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: like they were kind of stripped of ever feeling like
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: a child, right, And that's a lot of what it is.
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: Because even when I've used the tool of going back
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: and I'm revisualizing those moments, guess what I've used. I
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: visualized my mother giving me emotional tuement, right. So that
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: just shows like, listen, if you're out there, that's what
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: you do, right, This is what you do for your children.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: It's what they want, it's what they crave. They crave
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: you to wrap your arms around them and say I
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: see you, honey, I see you, and I know you're
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: hurting and we're both hurting and I'm so sorry. That's
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: literally all it would have taken.
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: We have such a dysfunctional mindset around parenting, especially attachment
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: parenting and gentle parenting that we're going to raise a
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: bunch of sissies, and we're only raising a bunch of
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: sissies when you are a permissive parent and you do
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: everything for your kid. If attachment parenting has strong boundaries,
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: attachment parenting still shows you as the authority over the child,
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: but it provides emotional attunement with the boundary. It doesn't
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: just provide the boundary, right, it provides you the Hey,
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: I understand where you're coming from because you're a human
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: being and you're trying to communicate with me, and I
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: recognize and understand your emotions, and I care about your emotions.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: And I'm still the authority, and as your parent, I
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: think this is what's best for you, and this is
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: what what's going to happen.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: All I wanted was for my mother. I would have
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: been able to acknowledge her pain a lot easier if
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: she would have just acknowledged mine.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: And I mean all the parents, it's the parent's job
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: to you recognize the emotions and attunes the emotions of
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: their child. And what I will say, though, is that
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: my approach to achieving attachment security. I think the cool
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: thing about it is that you don't have to go
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: back through every painful part. Now, if there's some really
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: painful moments like that, like things that really stick out, sure,
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: let's you know, let's work through those, because if they're
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: coming up over and over again, yes they have to
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: be addressed. Right, But I could not go through my
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: childhood and pick out every painful thing that my dad
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: ever did.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's too.
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: Many, right, So I focus on more generalized tools around
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: taking control of your thoughts, really becoming the boss of
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: your thought world and doing things like what you do,
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: like if those thoughts come in, how can you reframe
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: the situation? How can you reframe the thoughts around the
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: situation to create that new groove in the brain, you know,
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: And then healthy emotional processing and self regulation of the
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: nervous system are so key because you have to understand
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: your prefrontal cortex, your amygdala, your hippocampus, all of those
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: things speak to your nervous system. They speak to directing
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: your nervous system to whether you are safe or unsafe.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: It's the control centers of the nervous system.
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: We have to we have to be able to tell
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: our brains that we are safe because the brain doesn't
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: know the difference between a physical threat and emotion threat,
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: a real threat happening in the moment, or an imagined
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: threat and something that happened a long time ago or
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: something that could happen in the future. The brain cannot
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: tell the difference between those things. So you could be
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: dealing with an imagined emotional threat and your nervous system
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: is going, Okay, We're about to be eaten by a bear, right,
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: and we're pumping out the cortisol, the adrenaline, the nora penephrin,
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: all of the pro inflammatory side of kinds and making
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: ourselves sick and ruining our adrenal glands, setting us up
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: for disease as well as all the mental health pathologies.
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: And so the work changes the brain. And I try
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: to give my clients so much hope that when they
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: feel like I have this one client right now who
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: I absolutely adore her. I adore her. I mean she is.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: She has poured so hard into the work and the tools,
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: and ultimately my recommendation after coaching her and her husband
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: for quite a long time was to her that she
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: needed to research narcissism because I don't make that diagnosis
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: and she did, and she was like, wow, this is
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: what I'm dealing with, right, and decided to divorce. And
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: the divorce is really really ugly, because divorcing a narcissistic
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: person is ugly. Children, Yes, and she is stuck right
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: now because her brain has been so traumatized. And listen,
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: she describes what I went through to a tea. She
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: describes what I went through two months ago to a
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: t you know, I talked about how I you know,
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: I had some re traumatization from a narcissist, not my husband.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: My husband is not a narcissist, but a narcissistic individual
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: who really tried to hurt me and my family. And
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: I got for a month there my brain, those old
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: grooves were stimulated. Right, there's still like there's they may
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: be faint connections, but they revved up.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: It's like you explained, it's like breaking your arm in
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: the same place.
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like breaking your arm in the exact same place.
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: I get heels, but there's a scar or and it's
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: maybe more susceptible to a fracture in that area again, right,
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: And so then it's like you have to put the
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: you know, the bones mend and your brain is neuroplastic
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: and it will mend if you do the right things.
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: But I had a month there, and my client, you know,
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: is in this right now. But I had a month there,
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: like I said, where I was in functional freeze. I
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: was in fight or flight a lot, because I was
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: in the middle of a serious trauma. And gosh, I
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: hope one day I can talk about this. I can't
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: talk about it right now. There are legal aspects of
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: why I cannot talk about this, and of course I
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: would never name anybody any names, but I would love
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: to give more details some day, just to comfort and
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: help people that are going through.
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: It, because a lot of people do, a lot.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: Of people go through what I just went through. And
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: it was no fault of my own, it was no
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: fault of anybody in my family. It was just simply
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: a person that had is some serious mental illness that
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: didn't like me. And I can't say why they didn't
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: like me.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: Because she's beautiful and smart and successful and we all
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: love to hate her.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: I'm just kidding, yeah, And so you know, my gosh,
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: there like there was a whole month where it felt
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: like and I went back I even went back to
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: my therapist. I've been to therapy and.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: Proud of you.
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I went back to my original.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: Therapist because I think that's really healthy.
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: Love you, Angie. Shout out to Angie. She's amazing. But
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: you know, she was my trauma therapist during my divorce
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: and after the death of my ex husband, and I
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: did do trauma therapy alongside of my attachment healing. I did,
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: and they really went hand in hand. They were a
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: beautiful compliment to each other. And you advocate for that
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: in your per Absolutely. I never tell people not to
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: go with therapy. Yeah, Okay, Now, sometimes therapy doesn't work
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: for people because what they need is coaching, because they
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: need strategies, right, they need to heal their attachment. They
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: don't there's not abuse going on in the relationship.
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: Taking years of therapy.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: They have attachment incompatibilities. It's not an abusive traumatic relationship, right,
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: Not that I don't see people who have that, because
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: I have a lot of knowledge around that. Yeah, that,
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: and I'm happy to help people in those situations. But
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: trauma therapy is a great adjunct, especially for support, just
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: support and processing. Right. And my therapist looked at me
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: the other day and she said, you know, this feels
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: like you're going through this again with your ex husband,
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: but this is not your ex husband. Yeah, this is
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: not the same thing. It feels exactly like the same
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: thing because it's so similar. But you are safer than
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: you were. You were not as safe with no the
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: father of your children.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: And you didn't have what you have I mean, which
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: we've talked about too, Like you didn't have your faith,
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: you didn't have your attachment security, you didn't have a
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: good partner.
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: Oh, my gosh.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: All three things right make you so much more resilient.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: And my husband had had a funky day yesterday. I
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: was kind of in a funk and so was my husband.
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: He's like, I don't know why I'm in a funk too.
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: You're in a funk, so you know, uh, presumed innocent.
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: It's such a great show on Apple TV. That's like
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: our bench Wednesday venture. My gosh, it's so good. So
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: we were getting ready to watch that because it's like
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: our little Wednesday thing and that we do. And he
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: took my hand and it was the most beautiful moment
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: and he said, listen. He said, at the end of
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: the day, we have each other and this person who
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: shall remain nameless, cannot break that apart, no matter what
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: this person tries to do. And that person is sitting
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: alone with their bitterness and with their jealousy and with
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: their dysfunction. And we made it out of that. We
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: healed ourselves and we have a beautiful, amazing marriage that
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: ain't nobody going to be able to tear apart.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: And what a good feeling.
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: And that I felt my nervous system.
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: Go, yeah, like a breadth of fresh air.
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: I was like, you're right, it's so true, Like this
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: was meant. What this person did was actually probably directed
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: to try to tear our marriage apart, for sure, and
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: tear our family apart for sure. And it made us stronger.
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because that's what a good marriage does. Yeah, that's
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: what happens in a good marriage. Now you have a strong,
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: healthy marriage and strong healthy foundation. Hard things make your marriage, yes,
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: even better.
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: I mean we teamed up. We were like, all right, yeah,
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: it's on, yep, it is. And it was a bad
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: I mean we were in a war. I know, it
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: was a war zone.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: That's how you know you have a good like.
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: Twenty grand in legal fees war zoned.
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: Oh gosh, I could not imagine, which.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that puts a lump in my throat. But you
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: know what, you know what I say to that, I'm
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: blessed that I have it.
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, us that I have it.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: And ultimately we won the first part. There's multiple layers
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: to this legal battle. First part we won, the hardest part,
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: the most difficult part, I think was taken care of
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: me some great attorneys. We had some great people that
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: hit the ground running on it and were like absolutely not,
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: nobody is allowed to do this, Like this is a crime,
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: Like somebody committed a crime against you, and no, we're
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: going to take care of that. And I feel terrible
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: for people that could have been going through what I
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: went through and not have the financial resources. We had
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: three attorneys. Right. I don't want to go too much
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: of a tangent, but my brain went right back to
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: the days of my divorce and custody battle.
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: Oh, I saw it. You started getting really obsessive, ruminating.
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: Yet and I was like, no, no, no, no, no, Sarah,
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: back to the tools, back to square one. I went
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: back to square one two tools. Right, I knew what
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: to do, so luckily I knew what to do, But
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: did I have some weeks where I was right back there,
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: I did, and I forgive myself for that. I pulled
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: myself out and I will and I'm forever grateful that
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: I know how to pull myself out. But those actual responses,
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: those trauma responses of fight, flight and freeze, they are
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: meant to protect you. So what I told my client
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: who's in the thick of a divorce with a narcissist,
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: who's had the trauma of living with a narcissist for years,
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: and whose brain has a reduced prefrontal cortex, has brain fog,
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: has you know, the overact of amygdala and the rumination
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: and the anxiety and the depression and the functional freeze.
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: I said, just survive right now and forgive yourself because
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: these processes of the brain are your brain's a way
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: of trying to protect you from feeling what feels like
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: the unimaginable, from coping with what you you don't have
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: the resources in the moment to cope with. And two
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: months ago, when this was, when we were in the
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: thick of the worst of it, my brain didn't have
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: the resources to cope to confront it. So yeah, I
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: went into functional freeze. But I thank my brain for
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: that that's right. Thank you for Thank you brain for
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: shutting down and compartmentalizing.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: I kept telling you, which we're all guilty of, but
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: we say it over and over. I know we've probably
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: said it in probably half of the thirteen episodes that
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: we've done. When you're healing, there is.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: No room for shame, none, zero zip.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: They can't coexist because and that's you know, because of
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: course when you were in that functional freeze, you're like,
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: I'm so sorry.
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: You know, I'm not putting out content. I'm so sorry.
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: Right now I'm not making content.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: Stop Stop. You've got something that is this beautiful work
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: of art that sort of runs itself. I've got, I've
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: got I'm taking care of all the things on the
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: back end. Don't worry about it. Just rest, take care
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: of what you need to take care of. Show yourself grace,
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: give yourself some room to breathe, because otherwise, I mean
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: that I feel like that's how people just burn out. Yeah,
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: that's how you just fizzle out, And that's how you
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: turn to alcohol or you know, or you know, that's
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: why you punch that hole in the wall or you know,
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: if you don't just kind of let yourself sit back
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: right and you know, like you said, curl up on
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: your couch and you're blanky And gummy.
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: Bears, yeah, big bag hair abo, which my husband was like,
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: Albany's please, we need the better gummy bear. I like
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: the Harabo too, and they're a little chewy, all right,
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: compared to Oh yeah, my husband introduced me some gourmet
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: gummy bears. I'll never go back now. But here's the thing,
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: here's what I want to tell people. When you are
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: just surviving, give yourself grace. In that month, the month
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: from the middle of May to the middle of June,
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: I would say, even into probably early July, I had
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: a month and a half. I'm just coming out of
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: this people, So I apologize that. You'll see I don't
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: have as much content out in the last month and
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: a half because of what happened to me. And I
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: feel good now. I feel like, Okay, I'm really coming
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: out of it back here. Yeah, I'm more of myself
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: right because I use I had to go back to
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: square one of my tools and that was the only
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: way I could do it. But I have to give
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: myself grace because this is the brain's way of protecting you.
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: What I was facing. What this person did to me
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: and to my children was so ungodly horrific that it
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: would traumatize anybody, let alone somebody who had just art,
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: who had been through trauma.
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: In the past. Right, your trauma almost serves a justice
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: if you're able to, if you're able, if you've had
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: previous trauma and you've done the work to heal it
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: or heal from some of it, when you're re traumatized,
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: because you're gonna be yeah, right, it's just life. You're
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: you're more prepared for it.
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: You have the tools to come out of it sooner.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: What I will say is the brain will default right back.
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: It will go right back to the beginning, because all
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: those old connections are starting to fire, right. But remember
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: you can shift them. You can shift from the old
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: grooves that are that were largely filled back in, right,
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: but you activated them. So they're like, oh, let's slide
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: up right, let's fire, let's ruminate. But I have to
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: go back to remembering that I know how to shift
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: my thoughts, I know how to process my emotions. I
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: know how to give give myself great self care. I
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: can I have an amazing partner that I can co
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: regulate with I have my faith, and man, faith was
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: that it's everything, it always has been and always will be.
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: But I thank my brain, Yeah, thank you brain.
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: For doing I don't think we thank our brains enough now,
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: thank you for helping me co Yeah, we think. I
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: feel like we think our hearts more, you know, they
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: you know which the heart, you know plays a role
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: more too.
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: And I and I was doing things like staying up
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: at two am and typing out handwritten documentation that we
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: had had, right, and gosh, I hate to see the
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: typos in that, but because I'm like shaking, like at
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: two am, I'm like typing things out right because I
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: couldn't sleep. But I mean, and that was problem solving.
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: So that was a fight response, ye, right, that was
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: me problem solving, problem solving, problem solving. That was my
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: way to hyper control my environment getting information for the
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: legal case. You see a lot, right, And there's some
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: of that's a necessity. I this person that hurt my
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: family completely stripped me for a for a moment of
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: my personal power and control. And there's nothing harder than that.
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: And so of course I was trying to hyper control
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: my environment by collecting evidence for the case. And all
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: of the things that I had to do.
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: Same thing happened to me. Of course I can't. I mean,
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: I can't talk about mine just because it's so similar, right,
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: But you know, my power was completely strip My hands
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: were tired.
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's oh god, it's such a debilitating feeling, especially
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: if you are somebody like me use a type a
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: successful get her, be about it, not think about it
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: kind of person.
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: It's the worst thing.
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: But then after I did that, and after I handed
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: all of that off to the attorneys, and then there
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: it was like it was in their hands. Then I
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: went into functional freeze. Then my brain went we just
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: pumped out loads and loads of adrenaline, and you have
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: lacked sleep and you have been re traumatized and exhausted,
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: and so we're going to put you out. We're going
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: to put you in the bed for a couple of days.
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: And my parents, we have great grandparents in our lives.
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: My husband is amazing, and my husband took over a
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: little bit. Yeah, because where I'm so good at admin,
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: I did the admin part of it, and he did
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: the let me play with the kids, let me fix
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: the meals, let me do that part of it. And
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: you sit here and you rest with your way to
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: blanket and your gummy bears. Yeah, and I'm forever grateful
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: that I have. I mean, we made such a good team,
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: and that's what I'm just like, you know what you
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: meant to.
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: Tear us apart, Sorry it didn't happen.
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: Sorry it made us better.
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that I think it's just such
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: a good reminder because I still do it sometimes when
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: maybe I've had a hard a hard week or a
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: stressful day, like like yesterday, you know, I was in
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: a funk and you know, I'm in this weird phase
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: of my life where I'm approaching emptiness life and I.
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: Can't even wrap my brain und hard. I have four
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: small kids. And she's like, yeah, it's it's really difficult.
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: It's a lot more difficult, Like you don't like, you
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: don't know until you know, right, right, So you hear
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: people talking about being an empty nester and you're like, oh,
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: you know, laugh it off, but it's really, I don't
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: want to say it's painful. There have been some painful
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: moments that have come up, right, Like yesterday was sort
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: of one of those moments just where you know, my
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: husband went to work and my son went to work.
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: Sometimes it's just that my son's with his dad and
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: there I am right, I'm alone and there's listen, I
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: don't mind being alone. I'm okay with being alone. But
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: there's only so much that I can do because I'm
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: one of those people too that I like to take
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: action and I want to do.
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: Things and I want to stay busy.
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: And it's like when so much of your purpose is
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: wrapped up in specific things like your children, and then
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden and it's not like overnight, right,
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: doesn't happen overnight, It just gradually happens where it's sort
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: of taken away. You're it's hard to explain what I'm
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: feeling right now. I'm feeling sorrow. Like it's not pain,
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I just feel lots of sorrow. It's like
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: meling Collie right, or I'm not like this super like sad,
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: depressed person because my life is so beautiful and I
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: have so much to be grateful for and like, but
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: I just feel very melancholy. That's probably more of the.
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: Time that's are understandable.
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: And what I want.
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: People to understand is like, if you have a day
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: where you are in that functional freeze. And let me
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: talk about functional freeze because dismissive avoidant people live there,
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: they live their entire lives and functional freeze, which is
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: so sad.
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: And right and really like just baffles my mind.
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: Right, So, functional freeze, you will do things like squirrel,
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: social media, binge, watch TV, hyper focus on mundane tasks
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: at work. Like I dated a dismissive avoidant for a
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: year and a half and he had a lot of
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: like mundane type tasks like inventory, right that, things that
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: don't take they're tedious, but they don't take like a
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: ton of brain power, right, right, So he was constantly
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: pouring into those types of things because it helps you
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: dissociate from your feelings. Right. So when you're in a
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: functional free state, you are compartmentalizing from your emotions. Your
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: brain is saying, hey, look, those emotions are so big.
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: If you feel them, you might die. So what we're
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: going to have to do is we're going to have
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: to actually remove you and cut the cord from them
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: for just a little while. I actually have very little
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: ability to compartmentalize in my day to day and and
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: that's because I think I've learned such healthy emotional processing.
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: I don't need it. Yeah, but it came back with
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: the trauma.
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think it again. It depends right like
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: right now in this melancholy way that I feel like
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: I'm compartmentalizing a lot, like I'm doing a lot of
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: functional like a lot of the things that you just described,
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: Like I'm doing a lot of those functional freeze things.
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: But if something like that happened to me, what happens
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: to you? I don't know what I mean, I don't
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, I know my reaction would
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: probably be very similar to yours, like take action, take action,
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: take action. Okay, you want to fight, I'm gonna bring
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: you a five. And then I would probably sit back
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: and be like, okay, now I'm exhausted. And that's what
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: I did.
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: And I mean there's actually, when you look at the
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: fight and flight type of response, there is at the end,
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: there's the exhaustion phase. Right It felt like I had
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: just run a marathon. I wasn't sleeping, I could barely eat.
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: As the lowest weight I've ever been in my entire
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: life since I was an adult, I couldn't eat, I
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: could not sleep, I felt sick to my stomach, constantly.
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: I was hyper ruminating. It was all I could think about,
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: and I hate that they had that much power over me.
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: But it's not anymore.
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: But again, like I mean, showing yourself some grace, Like
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: you're only human, right, Like you're a human being, and
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: those feelings are real and they have to be felt.
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: They have to be felt so that you can get
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: through it, so you can push through and get to
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: the other side. And that's what I was gonna say.
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: It's like I'm trying, I'm trying really really hard right
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: now to show myself some grace and because sometimes I'll
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: I'll be really hard on myself and be like this
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: is silly, Like why are you so sad? Like you
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: have such a beautiful life, and like you know, you're
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: a newly wed and you have all these wonderful things
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: to look forward.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: To, but those grooves are still in your brain.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, and again it's like I've only shared half
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: of my son's life with him, right, so, because I've
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: always pluit fIF DVD Custidi with his dad. So it's
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: it's this difficult thing and even though like, of course,
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: my son's still always gonna need me, I know, like
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: you know, there's the logical brain tells.
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: Such a great mom.
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah he will, I know he and I he will.
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: But it's man, it's so difficult to not just want
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: to be like to not look at him and be like,
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: can you just stay home tonight and hang out with
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: Like I don't want to put that pressure on him, right,
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: Like I want him to be able to go and
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: live his life and do the things he wants to do.
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: And but then, you know, I just I have this
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: whole new appreciation for my mother. And I think I
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: don't know if I said this on a on a
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: another episode or not, this whole new appreciation for my
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: mother now now that I'm in this stage of my life,
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: because she was in this stage of her life and
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: going through a really shitty divorce and so at least
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: I have my husband right and I'm in early wed
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: and that's beautiful.
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah it is. And so many people have trauma. I
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: come across people every single day that have trauma, that
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: have no idea they have trauma, And I'm like, do
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: you know that that's trauma? And They're like, what, Like
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: poverty is trauma? You know, not knowing if you're going
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: to have the next meal, that's trauma. Moving around people
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: that you know. Of course, I support our military, my
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: husband's a purple heart veteran. But you know children of
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: military families that have to move all the time, that's
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: trauma because they feel a lack of safety in their
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: environment and they're pure groups in their school. And you
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: know people whose parents went through a nasty divorce, that's trauma.
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: The divorce doesn't necessarily traumatized kids. It's how the divorce
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: is handled in the aftermath of the divorce, and how
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: co parenting goes to traumatize.
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: As kids like the story I told in the Vine.
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: Right exactly. And so let's be clear, not all divorce
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: traumatizes kids, right, But some divorces are so nasty and
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: ugly that it does traumatized kids. Some people's co parents
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: they cannot get along, and they're putting their kid in
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: the middle, and they're disparaging the other parent constantly, and
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: they're parentifying their child.
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: If honestly, if I want to really talk about the
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: darkest moments of my life, even though I went through
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: a terrible custody battle with my ex and it was
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: awful and I was railroaded, I had better coping skills.
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: The darkest time of my life was my parents divorce.
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: I had no coping skills. I didn't know what I mean,
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: I was suicidal like it. I mean, And I was
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: not suicidal when I was going through a cussy battle
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: because I was like, oh, hell no, I'm a fight
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: and I have this child to live for. But when
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: my parents were going through divorce and it was dark,
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: I mean, it was and I was just like, I
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: didn't really, I don't. I don't want to say I
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: was suicidal because like it's not like I wanted to
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: make the attempt. I was just like, I don't care.
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: I what I It was kind of that feeling, you know,
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: those were the darkest moments, and so like it just
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: goes to show that that that young, very impressionable brain
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: like that doesn't have the coping skills. And it's why,
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: you know, I mean, we talked a lot about this
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: in the Narcissistic episode about how important it is to
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: do your your children's brain justice.
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: Trauma in childhood affects the development of the brain. It
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: leads to ADHD, it can lead to all sorts of
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: type of disorders.
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: I'm glad you're bringing up the neurodivergen stuff, because there's
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: been a lot of questions about, you know, on your
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: social just because a lot of people struggle with it.
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: You know, Yeah, neurodivergency, trauma based neuro divergency, that's a
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: real thing. If you didn't know, because of the way
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: that trauma changes the brain, it can show up exactly
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: like ADHD. I mean, in fact, my daughter has an
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: ADHD diagnosis that was likely trauma based, and she did
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: some intense trauma therapy and it's really improved. And I
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: mean she's, like I said, she's been released from therapy.
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: I mean, she's a happy, healthy, super successful young lady.
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: I'll brag on her all day long. And that's what
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: I think. What happened to us was so painful because
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: it was really directed at hurting my daughter children. Yeah, yeah,
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: it was directed at hurting my children. And it was
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: blind siding.
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because I think you knew that this person was dangerous,
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: but you were like, wow, wow, didn't know there was
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: that day.
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: Right, I thought, Okay, they're dangerous and they've harassed us,
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: but we can ignore it. We can ignore harassment. I'm
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: in the limelight, like I mean.
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: Used to harassment you're used to haters.
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean you can't have like a million social
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: media followers and people not give you hate, right, right.
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: And I've had people that I don't know, kind of obsessed,
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: like send me crazy obsessive messages, right, like.
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: Rand is my social media answer. A lot of the messages,
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: guys just f y. I know her brain. I can
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: answer all the things. But the ones that I love
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: the most, just for a little moment of funny, right
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: here are the ones that are like, hey, girls, you
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: need to share daddy. Like the ones that are like
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: they love you so much, they want to take care
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: of you.
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: I actually make a lot of money and I.
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: They're like no, She's like not, I always I just
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: ignore those obviously.
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: I just don't trade my husband for all the money
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: in the world.
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: No, but they make me laugh. It always sent me
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: laugh because I'm.
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: Like, no, I don't need a sugar daddy.
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: And I just wish you could, like see the people
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: that are asked and it's just like, oh, honey.
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: No, no, no, that's not gonna happen. No one. I'm married, right,
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: And everybody that sees my content knows I'm married. I
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: mean I wear my rings I don't know.
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: I've seen some comments too, they're like, you're giving all
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: this relationship advice. Where's your ring? Maybe you should do
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: a video of like.
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: It's always on.
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: It's so pretty and it is always on.
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: And you know what, my husband is such a oh
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: my gosh, what do you He gets on there and he.
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: Oh, your your husband gets on there too, and I'll
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: be like, you know.
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: My husband is the best on social media ever.
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: I I'll go to a typing war for her too,
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: all day long. Now, not under your social media, but
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: I'll under my own. I'll get on there.
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: I couldn't care less what some of these people say.
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: But when these men say disgusting things like about like
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: hitting up, like sexualizing me on social media, yeah, oh
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: my husband will be like say that to my face
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: about my wife, right, And I love that. I love
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: that protection of Like he's like, listen, she's a married woman, Like,
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: don't you be on her social media saying sexualized things
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: about her? It's not okay.
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: I protect you to back down. Even Josh is like
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: simmre down. I'm like, no, these people are so stupid,
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: they don't know anything. And I'm I'm like and I'm.
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: Just I don't even care, Like, who are they? I
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: don't even know you, like, And here's the thing. I
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: have elected to put myself out there, right, I have
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: elected to put myself out there. I have things in
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: the pipeline that again I don't know why I can't
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: talk about them, but I'm not supposed to talk about them,
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: so I won't until everything's launched. But that are gonna
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: probably make me even more in the limelight. I've been
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: in the national media. I've been in USA today, the
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: Washington Post MSN. I am no, you know, I'm not
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: immune to the haters, right, I'm no rookie. I don't care.
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: But this wasn't just what happened to me. Wasn't just
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: a hater. No, it was a direct, in bad faith,
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: malicious attack against my children.
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: It was a threat. It was like a real threat.
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was like it was a threat. Yeah, it
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: was a serious threat. Yeah. And that's crazy, it is
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: it is. And then there's I mean, there's so many
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: layers of this legal battle. The first layer, and what
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: I feel like is for my specific children, the most
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: important layer is over. But now we have more that
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: has to be done because we have to protect all
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: of our children, my husband's children. Yeah, well, in the process.
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: And one thing I will say about.
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: And I don't know, I don't know if woe in
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: that battle. YEA.
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: One thing I will say about your daughter, who you
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: know could have handled so many different ways. I think
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: that you've just done her such a justice in what
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: you've taught her in terms of having attachment security at
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: such a young age. Yeah, because her reaction was exactly
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: as it should have been. She was just like, it's
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: not true, mom, I'm good, don't worry like that takes
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: a very very strong, emotionally mature, really resilient young adult
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: to do that. And even though it makes you feel
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: bad for her because you're like, you know, I'm like,
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: she's so good and she's.
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: So all that time. I mean, it was just like
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: she didn't have to be that strong in the face
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: that adults aren't safe, right when we've worked so hard
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: to build safety for her.
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you do. It's like that, you know. I
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: struggled with this with JP too, because I'm like, you
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: don't want them to have to be strong, right because
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: they're children. But then it's like, but here's the thing,
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: when they're adults, they'll have better coping.
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: Skills than any of My child is so resilient, they'll
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: be so reasonable. I hate that she had to be resilient, right,
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: but I taught her resiliency and I didn't just I'm
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: not gonna take all the credit. Gabby has done the work.
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: She's done the Gabby showed up, Gabby implemented the tools
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: Gabby was. Gabby said, I don't want to grow up
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: to be dysfunctional, right. I had a dysfunctional father who
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: was an alcoholic and who died, and I recognize that
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: that affected me and whatever I have to do to
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: work through that. And of course she had a mother
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: that was obviously really like no, you like, we're gonna
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: do therapy. We're going to do it. And I learned
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: attachment parenting and I think that that has been huge
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: of in in her growth and development. And I can't
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: take all the credit. She's had great therapists and support systems,
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: and she's released from therapy like her therapist actually, which
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: was crazy, like shortly after this happened, she hadn't really
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: seen her therapists regularly because she hadn't needed to write.
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: But I, you know, I spoke to her therapist and
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: I said, Hey, this thing happened, which my therapist was
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: absolutely horrified over and was like, yeah, let's I want
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: to see her, right, Like I need to check in.
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: Like I wouldn't be doing my due diligence if I
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: didn't say, let's do a check in.
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: Well, and I mean, I think it doing that. It
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: kind of proves exactly what we're talking about. Right, So,
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: even though you know guy has been traumatized in the past,
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: it's always it's always good to go back and re
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: evaluate those tools and be reminded of what those tools
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: are so that you can remind the brain right like, oh,
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: you're safe, you're safe, you have what it is you
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: need to get through that you are safe, and that's
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: what you were doing for her, right.
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: And you know, so she had a couple of sessions
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: with doctor Abby, and doctor Abbey sent me a text
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: and she said, Sarah, I don't feel like I can
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: actually prove medical necessity. She said, You've got a great kid.
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: She's she's very she's handling this extremely well. I don't
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: see signs of anxiety PTSD. I don't see the trauma
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: symptoms coming back over this. I'm really confident that I
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: don't think she needs me right now, and she even said,
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: I don't really think I need this. I think I'm okay.
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: My mom's you know, I got my mom, I got
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: Donald and I'm doing good. I'm doing good. I'm doing
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: okay good for her. Yeah, And I think that that
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: is one of the things that is like so disheartening
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: about this whole situation is that if this person that
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: hurt my daughter knew my daughter, they'd be blown away.
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: And I know her, and you know, I don't know
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: if you realized this, you know, after their dad passed,
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: but I did because I know you were going through
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: a lot. But you know, even at their dad's funeral,
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: Gabby showed a resilience that I don't know, you know,
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: I don't know if I've ever really seen it in
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: a kid. I mean, she just was so brave. She
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: was so incredibly brave. And I saw you. I remember
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: the moment like I saw you. It's painful to talk about,
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: and I would have felt the same way. So I'm
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: not I'm not saying anything bad. But her pain was
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: her pain, right and she wanted to see her dad,
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: and you didn't, you know, you didn't want her to
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: and so it was one of those moments where it
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: was just.
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: Like because I was scared because he looked so bad, right.
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: And you didn't want that to be the last image
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: that she.
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: Had because he had a Let me just clarify so
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: people don't think I'm a horrible person. The position in
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: which he passed away caused that. I think it's called
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: lividity or I don't know what it's called. When the
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: blood pools and he was like purple. So I was
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: just scared of her being traumatized right of seeing her
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: dad that way because they had an open casket, which
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: I don't truly agree with. Yeah, I mean he looked
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: like it was like a horr like I could see
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: it from afar And I personally chose not to go
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: see him because I didn't want that to be my
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: last memory of him, but she chose. I left it
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: up to her and she said, I want to see you, yeah,
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: and her and her Mimi took her up there.
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: And I know that was hard for you. I mean
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: I remember sitting with you.
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: I was terrified, yeah, because I was like, what if
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: that's that moment of seeing his dead body in that light?
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: Because if you pull her backs on it.
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: It's still then she missed the opportunity to say goodbye
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: and to have that closure, and so how do you
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: leave that up to an eight year old? And to
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: this day she said she's glad she did it. That's right,
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: and you know, and it's okay, that was the right
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: it was the right call, and so gosh, it's just
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: she's remarkable.
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: I know, we talk about her often and how remarkable
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: she is, and it seems like we've ended some of
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: our episodes about her, but she I will not be
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: surprised if Gaby grows up to just be like this
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: I don't know, famous artist or something in New York City,
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: or like a fashion designer, I don't know, just something
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: there and unique. And she's just a beautiful, beautiful.
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: Amazing And this person is still out there saying things
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: and can false accusations.
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: But a child she doesn't even know.
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: Never met, never once met in this person's entire life.
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: Which is just awful. So you know, let it just
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: be a testament that example of you know, how even
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: as you know a child, if anything, I feel like
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: as a child it's most important to get, you know,
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: an upper hand on being able to have your attachment security.
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: Yes, you need to learn attachment parenting. You need to
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: have your attachment security so you can learn attachment parenting
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: so you can create a securely attached child. I cannot
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: stress enough how absolutely vital that is. It is the
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: biggest gift you can give to your kids. More than
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: the sports that you pay for, more than the private
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: lessons that you pay for, more than the tutoring you
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: give them for school. Their emotional well being is going
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: to make or break them in life. In fact, there
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: was this huge longitudinal study okay, way back in the day,
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: so back when IQ testing I think it was like
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: in maybe the twenties or thirties, like Bena Rights from
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: the Stamford Bene IQ tests. They were following kids from
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: young age to adulthood and they wanted to know what
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: was the biggest predictor of their success. And they were
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: really honing in on IQ, and they really thought that
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: IQ was going to be the biggest predictor of success.
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: And what they found was there's this there's this tipping
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: point where I think it was the IQ was like
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: one twenty maybe, which is above average, which is it's
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: more than above average. It's pretty high, but it's not
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: genius level or anything that after one twenty IQ didn't
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: matter at all. You know what it was emotional stability
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: and resilience and emotional maturity yeahs, and really secure attachment. Yeah,
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: if we're if we're going to contextualize it. That's what
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: coping skills are are, because those those are the kiddos
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: that could deal with life's problems in a healthy way
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: and they pick good people to marry, and they make
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: good decisions, and they don't have addictions and they you know,
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: so if you want to raise a kid that's actually
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: going to be successful and healthy in life, learning to
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: become securely attached to yourself is going to give you
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: the capacity to be a parent that models security. And
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: that's largely how kids learn is through modeling. You'll learn
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: how to give them proper emotional ativement. You'll learn how
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: to teach them resilience. You'll learn to teach how to
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: help them question their thoughts, how to you know, land
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: on rational thoughts versus catastrophizing. And I could go, I
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: could talk about it all day long.
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: That's how you I mean, that's how you establish a
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: real legacy, right Like if you really want to talk
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: about legacy. You could give your children all these things.
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: You can give them a full on a state, right
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: you could. You know, you can give them all these
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: you know, baseball, swimming, you know, sports lessons. But is
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: there anything better than giving your children emotional stability? No? No,
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: I mean the story that I shared in the very
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: beginning of this episode proves that the one thing, the
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: one thing that I wish my mom could have given.
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: She gave me everything I ever wanted in terms of
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: material things. I don't think I ever wanted for one
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: thing in my.
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: Life other than attachment security.
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: That's it. All I wanted her to do was wrap
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: her arms around me and tell me that I was safe, yeah,
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: and that I was going to be okay, and not
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: to blame. You know, it's not fair to blame your
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: parents for everything, but any of.
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: Your parents had their own wounds, own insecurities, which is
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: proving our point here, right. I grew up with god lover,
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: a dismissive, avoidant mother who would have is love stu
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: acts of service, And she's shown up for me more
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: times than I can count, and I will not throw
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: her under the bus. She's still an amazing woman. My
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: dad had a lot of issues and he created a
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: lot of feelings of lack of safety in my life.
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: And just think, I mean again, we're not saying that
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: we are life.
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: And it changed my brain development, which is the whole
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: point of this episode.
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: Yes, and that's what we're honing in on here, is
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: that if you can which is similar to what we
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: talked about in the last episode, if you can give
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: your children a leg up in this world.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: It would be shape their brain.
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: Well, get ready, guys, because things are about to get
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: crazy in this world. Okay, so we have what's about
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: to have it We will run into all that. But
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: I mean, the best thing that you can give your
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: child is emotional stability, so and and teaching them attachment
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: security so that they can pick the right partner so
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: that they can have success in their life. And it's
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: never too early to start or never too late. And
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: that's what as well. You took the words right out
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: of my mouth, honey. So if you're looking for any
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: of these types of services, Doctor Hensley has her course,
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: her hybrid group coaching program Coach Elizabeth, which.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: Teens can do too. The group, the group and the
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: course teens can do it they have they have the
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: cognitive capacity to do well in it.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I love that.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: So that's actually have some people who have brought their
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: teenagers in to do the work.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's great. So please go to her website check
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: out all of her services, and cause there's we're like,
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: we are always talking about new things to bring about,
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: you know, in terms of her services. So there's there's
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: some stuff working in the pipeline for sure, and we're
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: excited to get to work on those things. So but
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: in the meantime, go to her website, the Dating Decoder
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: dot com. Check out all of her services. And if
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: you are liking this content, please continue to listen. We're
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: so hello, Yes, we are so so thankful. Again, that
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: always goes without saying how grateful we are for all
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: of your followers and for your entire community on all
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: your social media platforms. Thank you, we love you, and
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: until next time, peace, love and perspective.