Latest / The Elevator Careers Podcast / Elevator Traveling Cables: Innovation, Codes, and Reaching New Heights | Dillard Green

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Elevator Traveling Cables: Innovation, Codes, and Reaching New Heights | Dillard Green · The Elevator Careers Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: For people outside the industry, they they would never know, you know, much about an elevator traveling cable, right?
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_02: But that's that's really what sends all the signals.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's uh critical to the operation of your your elevator, right?
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we consider the elevator traveling cable is more or less the umbilical umbilical cord for the moving elevator.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: So any signal or data transmission, electricity, anything going to the cars going through that cable.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: I was able to work on the the first tower of terror for Disney.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: Right on.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: The challenge there was to design a cable for an elevator that's designed to crash.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: It had to withstand the robust erratic behavior of an elevator.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: That um normally if I had a call from somebody with erratic behavior like that, I would tell them maintenance the elevator is your problem.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's designed that way.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: Hello, and welcome to the Elevator Careers Podcast, sponsored by the Allred Group.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_02: I am your host, Matt Allred.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_02: Does your workforce need a list?
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_02: At the Allred Group, we are committed to connecting your company with top talent that matches your needs.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_02: Give us a call at 404-890-0445.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: Today's guest is Dillard Green, a manufacturing and engineering expert with over four decades of experience supporting the elevator industry.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_02: Throughout his career, Dillard has worked at the intersection of manufacturing, engineering, code compliance, and innovation, helping develop solutions for everyday buildings and iconic projects like the Birch Khalifa and Disney's Tower of Tear.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: In this episode, we explore the role of elevator traveling cables and the lessons he's learned throughout his career.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_02: Dillard, welcome to the show.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_02: Hey Matt, thanks for having me.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_02: Looking forward to it.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_02: I appreciate it.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: I've enjoyed our previous conversations and looking forward to this one.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, it's interesting.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_02: Uh you've spent four decades with one company, and uh that's that's a long time, especially by by today's standards.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_02: What has kept you motivated, curious, and engaged all those years?
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think um just to be able to see the visibility of what I'm doing and how it affects service to the end user as well as um I'm working in manufacturing, so I'm very interested in seeing how products are made and kind of cradle grow cradle to grave opportunities for seeing uh product solutions being implemented and and helping people uh get solutions implemented.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: Do you ever feel a little little bit of pride when you drive past a building and you go, hey, you know, our product is going up and down?
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully that's a common thing in the industry, but whenever you work on a particular project, um there's there's some satisfaction for sure and some uh realization that you put a little bit of effort of your efforts gone into a much bigger project.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: For sure, for sure.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_02: When when you first entered the elevator industry, did you imagine this would become a lifelong career?
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_02: Or was that more of a surprise as you kind of moved along?
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: No, not really.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: I started out in education background as engineering with a focus on manufacturing.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I've always been intrigued how things are made, younger days, take things apart to see how they work.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I got into where I where I work here, we were wired cable manufacturer.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: So if I started out in manufacturing here, our sole customer base is the elevator contractor market.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: So at one point in my career I moved into a field engineering applications engineering position where I was interacting with the end user on job sites and uh helping with installation issues and and product understanding and solutions.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: And um that kind of put my other foot into the elevator industry, so I'm both in manufacturing and and the elevator space as a current supplier to the elevator contractor market, so it's been a good dichotomy, I guess, of uh best of both worlds.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: But no, I never uh considered elevator industry.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, the building where I work is one story and uh our city has very few elevators, but we do supply uh globally from here to the elevator.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: No, that's yeah, it's fascinating.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_02: Fascinating.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_02: And and obviously for people outside the industry, they they would know never know you know much about an elevator traveling cable, right?
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_02: But that's that's really the what sends all the signals, right?
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's uh critical to the operation of your your elevator, right?
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we consider the elevator traveling cable is more or less the umbilical umbilical cord for the moving elevator.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: So any signal or data transmission, electricity, anything going to the car is going through that cable.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's a lifeline.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's one of many components in the elevator, but uh just like many others, it's critical to the operation of the car and it's successful uh travel.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you you called the umbilical cord.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_02: I in my mind I saw an image of you know almost like the uh you know the spinal cord, right?
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's like if it you know breaks anywhere along the way, you you're gonna have a paralyzed uh car or totally non-operational.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: So it uh it really is the central hub of all the communication.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of a critical link in the entire system.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: Certainly.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um so why why can't a building just use uh an ordinary like off-the-shelf cable instead of you know inside of their elevator?
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like what makes a elevator cable as specialized as it is that maybe a lot of people wouldn't understand?
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's a good question.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: I I remember when I first came to this factory and toured as a job interview, just realizing, you know, how how hard can it be, right?
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: Make the cable, put some wires together.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: We all we all have experience with extension cords and back in the day, telephone cords, believe it or not.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: But uh not so much now, but um yeah, the the cable, I'm I'm involved in the design process uh as well, and a lot of the design attributes beyond the electrical characteristics.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: A lar large um important part is the mechanical attributes of the cable.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: It has to flex constantly uh as the elevator is moving and for for many years, um, which makes it unique to a lot of a lot of cables in in the in the marketplace.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: So there are design aspects to keep it where it'll flex continuously without any problems, and also it has to track in a very small space, in a vertical space of an element or hoist play.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's very important that it stays where it's supposed to.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: So those are some of the some of the differences to standard run-of-the-mill cable.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, uh and like you say, it's got to flex, it's got to move.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_02: Is there a kind of a standard lifetime that hey you gotta I mean I I've never heard people talk about that, but I'm just curious if like, you know, it's gonna wear out after however many uses or trips or what is that?
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: That's a very good question.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: We we like we design the cables to we say run the lifetime of the elevator, and knowing that most elevators are at some point are modernized and the elevator may still be operational, but the workings of the controller and various electrical components may be replaced as technology changes.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: But that's typically 25 years, 30 years, and we all we also our our traveling cable has a lifetime warranty, which is indicative of some of that design and and manufacturing experience.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it lasts a long time, but um a lot of things are replaced in the meantime.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes upgrades are necessary for technology change.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_02: For sure.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I and I hear people say that and I I've asked the question, right?
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm uh ignorant enough to that I can ask the dumb questions like what at what point does it become a mod, right?
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_02: I mean I hear people say mods and that and I've heard it said, well, that when you replace the controller, then it's a mod versus a you know a big repair.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_02: Does the traveling cable get replaced every time you do a mod essentially, or does it really depend?
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think in most cases it probably does.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not an expert on that, but typically if you're replacing a controller, that the controller dictates primarily what's in the traveling cable, as well as the peripheral components on the car, cameras and card readers and things of that sort.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're replacing a controller, I would assume the traveling cable would be I would assume all the time, but I'm not 100% sure.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: We do service the modernization market, service market, as well as the OEM and new install.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: For sure.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um so I mean, obviously you mentioned you worked, you know, design, manufacturing, field engineering, customer support.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_02: How has seeing every side of the business shaped how you solve problems today?
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, solving problems is something that um we we like to look at not just making cables, but we also sell a variety of other products, but manufacturing the cables is is a core product for us.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: But we like to look at it providing solutions to to the end customer, whether it's the product itself or how we deliver it or how we package it with other components.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: But seeing uh from being in different positions or different points of view, I think the common common thing I would think about is that people I like to think of our customers is we have internal customers and external.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: The internal would be within your organization, whoever you hand your work off to is your customer.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: And then the external would be the end user, the one that's paying for your service.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: And we've all in life, we're all customers, all consumers, and we we know what it's like to wait in the long line or have something that's not delivered when it's promised.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so we have to understand that.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I try to take those different viewpoints and dealing with helping customers solve problems, you know that they're maybe not the happiest day of their life, and you want to try to give them some reassurance, but you also have to be uh upfront and out and open with with what the options are and um just treat others as you want to be treated.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean you you told me a story once about um where technology existed, but the code hadn't caught up yet.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm curious how common is it for innovation to move faster than regulations and and a little bit more about that that uh process where you know, hey, this we know this is going to be coming into the code, but it's not here yet.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: And and how do you kind of marry up those two pieces of of building a product and you know getting it, getting it where it it needs to be as the code is updated?
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's that's a big lesson learned in in the industry, is um obviously everything we do is directed by various regulatory codes, but there's different layers of codes.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: And those of us in the elevator industry, of course, are very familiar with the ASME A17 codes for safety.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um there's also the National Electrical Code that is more of an umbrella over many, many uh products and services that are electrical.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: So an example that you're referring to is um the electrical code stipulates general requirements for different types of products, and and there is a section on elevator traveling cables and specifically under a flexible cable uh section.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: And that dictates uh and uh as an example, uh minimum conductor size.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh what happened with with us is that as technology changed and Ethernet cables, category cables became a standard in building infrastructures, naturally there were requests to have those within the traveling cable to continue the circuitry to the elevator, so you have internet access or on the on the car.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: That category cable is based on a smaller conductor size than what the code allowed.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: So that was a challenge.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um the the electrical code specifically is updated every three years, and there's a process to appeal or to s petition for changes.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um and if that's not approved, then you you can do it again in three years.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: We've done that before to get the conductor size reduced, and initially were unsuccessful in that.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so we um still had demand for the category cable, so we we went another route within the code requirements and designed and manufactured an equivalent uh category 5e pair using a larger conductor.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: That solution works works quite well, but it requires an adapter to be able to get the larger conductor down to the smaller conductor connectors that are standard with Ethernet cable.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: So that's an example where we were held back by code to make something that was was listed and certified.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: The final iteration with that going back to the electrical code was um it was helped with we petitioned again as well as some other um elevator industry professionals also petitioned and we were able to get the the change in the 2023 code.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so that was that was good and fine, but then the questions were okay, it's in the code, where's my cable?
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: And uh what it's not as clean as that.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: It obviously there's other other uh codes around and the for the manufacturer we're we have to have uh in our industry the UL has a specific requirement for flexible cables, specifically elevator traveling cables.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the code that tells the manufacturer the performance criteria, insulation thickness, material types, all those types of things.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: So once the electrical code is changed, then the regulatory agency has to come in, in this case UL, and update their requirements.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: And we interviewed with them and they interviewed other manufacturers as well to develop a change into the code to comply with the uh NEC.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: Gotcha.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: So long story short, we we were able to get a UL listing for a category six cable and a traveling cable after over a year and a half from the case.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_02: I was gonna ask, yeah, how long does that take?
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I mean it feels a little cumbersome, you know, just as an outside alert outsider looking in.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like, in other words, I don't suppose elevators are being held up, but how how do you navigate, you know, hey, here's the code, the the product it sounds like can't be made and sold until it gets the stamp.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: So what what happens for that year and a half?
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_02: How does that work?
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you have the you know, from my standpoint, providing technical support and um answering customers' questions in that regard, the answer initially is it's not commercially available.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: We do have other alternatives.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: We we have use of optical fibers in the traveling cable, which can send you know huge amounts of data, although it requires a different termination and maybe some conversion equipment.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: So there is a solution there, a little bit of resistance to that.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: If it's if you're going from copper in the building, you'd have to purchase transmission equipment, which is added expense.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um as I mentioned, we also developed a kind of interim solution with the larger component uh category five E pairs.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: But it's it's kind of an evolution and and with codes, it's you know, regulatory is there's bureaucracy and red tape, but it's also a tough job.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: You the code committees have to go through who who knows how many petitions every time they get around and they have to prioritize those and choose what they feel is necessary.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, of course, those of us on the manufacturing side, the industry side need to lobby harder, I guess.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: But um it's a natural part of the process, I think.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, everything's safe, yeah.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly, right?
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_02: There's a reason there's codes, there's a reason there's that much oversight, and it makes makes a lot of sense and and it does really kind of highlight your team and you, you know, you the need to be creative, right?
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_02: And the need to say, okay, this particular thing isn't maybe commercially available, but we can still send the data, it sounds like, right?
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_02: We can still make something work and we know how to you know create adapters or whatever, you know, some some kind of termination hardware you talked about, right, that can uh make sure that the message is is getting through the cable until such a time as we can do what we really wanted to in the first place, which in that case may have been just a standard category five cable.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_02: Hey there, listeners, it's Matt, and I would love to know what you want to hear more of on the podcast.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_02: If you have a topic in mind or a guest you'd like to hear from, head over to elevatorcareers.net and drop a suggestion in the box, or you can email podcast at elevatorcareers.net.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_02: The link will also be in the description below.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for being part of this conversation.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_02: Now back to the show.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then the interim, you know, I try to educate the customer as best as possible to understand the because it's frustrating.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and it's not just us, it's the any any any provider is held by those codes.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: So um we try to develop products to anticipate code changes, and obviously everything has to align with the code in the end.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and and there's different codes in different cities and different parts of the country, right?
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_02: So you're probably again back to creativity, you know, probably thinking a whole lot about, well, you know, over here we use this because they're using that code, and over here we're using something else because they're using different code, and then you know, there may be a way to you know use some of those different solutions at at different times depending on who's changing the code and and then make it work ultimately for the for the riding public.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: So we do some collaboration internationally, or company is global, um, different codes in different countries.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um this particular product that the European code was allowing smaller conductor sizes before we were here.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: So we do have experience in in Europe with similar product that's we've offered for a number of years, and sometimes I'd get a screenshot from a website asking how come you can't why can't you sell me this?
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I can, but it doesn't meet the US, you know, requirements.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: So if everything was harmonized, then you know everybody's lives would be a lot easier, I guess.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: But that's true in so many areas.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I get it.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's fascinating, you know, not being involved in those to to just kind of learn a little bit about, you know, it it is a little bit like a a legal process in a way, right?
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: That it uh you know has to be reviewed and voted on, and and like you say, you there's an appeal process and all kinds of things to to get some changes and ultimately it works out.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: It just takes a little while to to get there.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_02: Very cool.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_02: And uh yeah, I mean we were obviously talking about how it can take months or or years sometimes before a new product actually reaches the market.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_02: Are there times I mean, in a way, you're you're kind of this is just my guess here, right?
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_02: But you're you're kind of subject to what is approved, right?
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, in other words, can you create and like develop new technology?
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I mean, at some point they would have to approve it, right?
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_02: And does that happen often that you're like, hey, this would work better?
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_02: We're just gonna keep asking until that is allowed to come out.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, some ex I guess uh innovation, anything we come up with that's different.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: And in our case, our products are listed by UL underwriters laboratories, use in the US and North America.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: Anything we do that's outside of the realm of that specification, uh, we can open a project with UL, and basically we would manufacture a product using, say, different materials or different components that are outside of the scope of the spec.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: Then we would submit them.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, we do our own testing, uh, make sure everything works.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: But UL would typically look at it and say, if if it can meet the performance criteria of our specification, then they would give us a um grant us the use of that additional material or whatever that's outside of the spec.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: So that that's done within within UL because the National Code, electrical code, is is much more general.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: They're not telling us what type of material to use.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: They just, you know, in the case I just described, it's just a conductor size limitation, which by the way I learned the conductor size was introduced in the code, I think, in 1956.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: Oh wow.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: As a reason because they were worried about the wires breaking if they're any smaller than 20 gauge.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: We've had a lot of innovation since and stranding techniques and things.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: And now there's much smaller wires used on robotic applications and things like that, so it it really sits easily in the traveling cable space, but it took till 2023 to change that from back then.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway, um there's so most of the changes we do are not outside of the electrical code, but rather outside the scope of of the UL manufacturers.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting application.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_02: That that is fascinating that they have a way to uh open up a kind of preemptively, uh proactively, whatever the right word is, uh, you know, create hey, we want to create this, and then they can kind of almost you know supervise or you know, whatever, to pre-test it in a way, right, so that it's it's gonna meet the the standard once it once it comes out, and then they can put their stamp on it and you're good to go, as long as it's I guess part of the bigger code.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it and again, they're the regulatory agency is responsible to be sure it meets basic performance criteria, mainly safety from fire and shorts and things like that.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: If we can make a product that still meets those performance criteria, then not always, but many times we will get a get an approval to expand our listing to add different components.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_02: There's been a lot of talk the last few years about the A17, I think it's.1, code and the the need for audiovisual.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_02: How much has that affected the work you do?
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_02: Or I mean is it just a matter of throwing in an extra cable or has it has that been a significant change?
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: I think the audiovisual requirement from in for emergency use, um, it certainly changes the components within the traveling cable.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: We have many different variations, and some are just different combinations of pairs and power conductors and the like.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um I you know we've seen an increase in in the communication requirement with with video, and I believe the you know the Cat 6A Ethernet cable would be a component that would be interesting for that application for sure, more so than you know, replacing coacts and and shielded pairs and things to give you higher performance and better quality picture.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_02: So um yeah, I mean it it does sound like there's been a lot of innovation.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_02: I just I know a lot of different suppliers and inventors that have you know created products that kind of work on that and obviously have to communicate through the through the umbilical cord of the traveling cable.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_02: So very cool.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_02: So tell me a little bit I was uh pretty intrigued when you told me you'd worked on the the may say it wrong, the Burj Khalifa, is that how that's pronounced?
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_02: And uh One World Trade.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_02: And what are some uh things that uh would need to be considered when designing cables for buildings like that?
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: Well, for you mentioned the Burj Khalifa, of course, is the tallest building in the world.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: I had the privilege to work on that project um early on, um, which was a real highlight because many times with the traveling cable, you're they reach out to you when it's time to get the traveling cable after the building's you know already in construction and need the elevators to run in a couple of weeks.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh in this case where I was actually able to be in on involved in the process before they started building the building, so it was probably four four years earlier than it when it was built.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway, in our first drawings we had access to, and of course I worked for the elevator company uh installing everything, but as a supplier, the first drawing I had uh reference to did not have the building height on it because it's gonna be the tallest building.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: I've what I've learned is it seems that any building that's being built to be the tallest, they they kind of keep that a secret a little bit.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_02: They don't want to tell their competitors.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's either a secret or they hadn't decided yet.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: But um we were, you know, as as needed basis, I guess.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously that that was disclosed later because it's it's hard to design a traveling cable when you don't know at that length what the length's gonna be.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: So most most elevators uh you design cables that have suspended lengths, they're plenty long for just about all the elevators.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um but when you get into a building of that height, you have to reconsider you know, just the physical strength of the cable.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: Uh can it hold up and you you don't want it to break or anything.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: So that was one aspect, but the biggest thing with that job was that um there were a lot of weight requirements.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: As you imagine just the restriction of that height, some of the things that had to be resolved um just to be able to do that type of elevator.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: Things like hoist ropes, comp ropes.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: Very heavy when they're that long, you know, do an observation car to the top of a building like that.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: So there were some different technologies used on those things, and and we had as a traveling cable supplier, we had a maximum weight load requirement for the cables.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um generally we design a cable and then don't pay a lot of attention to the weight, it's just an output of the design.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: In this case, we had to really scrutinize the design and and make everything compacted together as best as possible.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: And we also made use of a lot of optical fibers, which are much lighter than the copper, obviously.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: So that that helped get our weight down.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: But they also wanted an incredible number of components within the cables on the observation cars.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I think with those types of buildings, you always have a tourist element of some type of observation car that has lots of video screens and a very entertaining ride to the top, so that requires a lot of components that most elevators wouldn't have as well.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_02: That's fascinating.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you mentioned a couple things that caught my attention.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_02: One is just that the rope itself won't break, right?
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_02: You stretch it up, what is it, 1200 feet or something?
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_02: I forget how tall that build is.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's over 150 floors.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: I should have rewritten a little bit.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_02: So so the the the question of, hey, can we make one long enough that it's not so heavy that it won't just snap like spaghetti when we stretch it out?
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's that's significant.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_02: And then the other one, you know, just that it had to have all these weight considerations.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you even told me that the cab itself was made from like ultralight aluminum.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's so obviously it's it feels like to me they're they're maybe approaching the the maximum capacity of elevator technology uh or maximum height.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I think my understanding on that project was really breaking some barriers of maximum heights, but then you know, re I guess resetting the bar or what maximum is.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: But other projects in the works that are even taller that at least in theory can be done, but not with a traditional elevator um components.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: Everything has to be reviewed and considered.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: Because ultimately, if the if there's too much weight on the car, there's no capacity for passengers.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to make money.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: One at a time, please.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: So um, but yeah, that's so that that was a unique challenge, but it was uh rewarding to be part of that.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_02: See this now that sounds like a lot of fun and and uh yeah, just the the engineering alone is has got to be, like I say, rewarding and and memorable.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: And um, yeah, no, that's fascinating.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_02: So a couple questions for you before we end.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_02: And one is you know, looking back in your career, what project or accomplishment makes you the most proud and why?
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the first one comes to mind is the Burge Khalifa, just because it is the tallest building in the world, but uh been involved in some other unique projects.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um one that comes to mind is it's kind of obscure for most people don't think about it, but I was able to work on the the first um Tower of Terror for Disney.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: Right on.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: The challenge there was to design a cable for an elevator that's designed to crash.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's designed the elevator is designed to fail, it has a free fall element.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and and I didn't, I mean, I rode that 30 years ago with some friends in college or whatever.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_02: But um I think we went through up 15 times.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't busy that day and just over and over and over.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_02: So reflecting on that, I mean, obviously, probably not your area of expertise, but it it's designed to fall and to go back up and fall, right?
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_02: So there's uh I really didn't think about it at the time other than it was just a a fun ride.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, and I I tried to um get a trip there to help observe installation or assist or whatever, but Disney has all their own, as you might can imagine, their own imagineering department.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: They do all their own install and maintenance and basically deliver product to their gate and they take it from there.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: But it had to withstand the robust, you know, erratic behavior of an elevator.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: That um normally if I had a call from somebody with erratic behavior like that, I would tell them, Well, you have to, you know, maintenance your elevator is your problem.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's not that's not cable, but that's designed that way.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: So so that was unique one.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: It was kind of fun, and that's as you said, um that was a long time ago, evidently, if you were there 30 years ago.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um I yeah.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: And it's probably right.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's you know, I've been doing this for a little while, but um and we've you know, we've had that was the first one was in Orlando, and then of course there's others not thinking Disney Euro and places like that.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_02: So they wouldn't give you uh a backstage pass to to see it.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_02: They they they said no, just come buy a ticket and you can ride it all you want, but exactly.
• 28:43
  unknown: Yeah.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like everybody else.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, yeah.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_02: So last question I have for you, what advice would you give to somebody who's just starting out, right?
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe it was young Dillard just coming out of college.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_02: What would you what would you say to them?
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: One, take advantage of every opportunity that's afforded you if you're working for a company, they offer training, take that.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um and really do well with people.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think coming from a technology background, there's there's not always a people element there, but I think whatever role you have, working with people makes things a lot better, dealing with the customer, obviously, but even working within your organization, um, understanding that we all have similar needs, but maybe approach them a different way, and try to collaborate with others so that different you know, different viewpoints can often the synergy can give uh a larger sum than what individually would provide.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_02: So true.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well said.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_02: Dillard, thank you for being with me today.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_02: I I've enjoyed it and uh appreciate you being on the show.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, Matt.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate the opportunity.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, sir.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_02: Take care.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for listening to the Elevator Careers Podcast, sponsored by the Allred Group, a leader in elevator industry recruiting.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_02: Please visit our YouTube channel at Elevator Careers or check us out online at elevatorcareers.net.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_02: Please like and subscribe.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_02: And until next time, stay safe.