Latest / Anele and the Club on 947 / South Africa’s birth rate is falling: Are people choosing to have fewer kids?

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South Africa’s birth rate is falling: Are people choosing to have fewer kids? · Anele and the Club on 947

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  Speaker 1: Wake up with a bang. Hey, wake up! Anele and
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  Speaker 1: the club.
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  Speaker 2: On 947.
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  Speaker 3: South African women aren't doing this thing anymore.
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  Speaker 1: And people are panicked.
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  Speaker 2: Panicked?
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  Speaker 1: Panicked, I say.
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  Speaker 3: South African women aren't doing this thing anymore.
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  Speaker 1: And people are panicking.
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  Speaker 4: From the 1980s to the early 2000s, birth rates in high-
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  Speaker 4: and middle-income countries were stable or at least stabilizing. But
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  Speaker 4: over the last 10 to 15 years, across a wide
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  Speaker 4: range of regions, cultures, and level of economic development, they've
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  Speaker 4: gone into steep decline.
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  Speaker 5: Black South Africans are having fewer and fewer babies every
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  Speaker 5: single year.
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  Speaker 6: There are several factors that have influenced these changes. You know,
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  Speaker 6: South Africa is backing the trend when it comes to
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  Speaker 6: global birth rates. However, that trend is now shifting for
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  Speaker 6: a variety of reasons. Birth rates have rapidly declined in
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  Speaker 6: recent years.
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  Speaker 1: Y'all ain't having babies anymore. Y'all are not having babies anymore.
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  Speaker 7: Why?
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  Speaker 1: And I just want to stress, this is not the
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  Speaker 1: fertility rate. This is the birth rate.
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  Speaker 3: So y'all are choosing to not have bundles of joy.
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  Speaker 1: What is it? Is it the cure of school fees?
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  Speaker 1: Have those sent y'all into a tailspin? You're like, uh-uh.
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  Speaker 8: I'm sure there must be lots of reasons. Money must
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  Speaker 8: be one of them. So like you say, maybe it's
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  Speaker 8: the cost of raising a child. Maybe it's people aren't getting,
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  Speaker 8: because people used to get married a lot earlier.
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  Speaker 2: People are waiting longer before they get married.
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  Speaker 3: Or maybe people are realizing that 30, 40 years ago,
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  Speaker 3: it was almost expected of you to have a child,
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  Speaker 3: whether you were into it or not. I don't think
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  Speaker 3: you even had time to decide for yourself whether you
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  Speaker 3: actually want to have a child. And now, because everywhere
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  Speaker 3: you look, it's choice, choice, choice, pro-choice. Not just about
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  Speaker 3: having a child, everything.
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  Speaker 1: Like just everything.
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  Speaker 2: Self-determination.
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  Speaker 1: Yes.
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  Speaker 3: We've got into this little bubble of individualism that everything
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  Speaker 3: now is about you and you and you, which is great.
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  Speaker 3: So I think mostly that's it, is that people who
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  Speaker 3: would have had babies just to please society are now saying, actually,
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  Speaker 3: I don't want to be a mother.
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  Speaker 5: But also women work now.
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  Speaker 2: So you've got more.
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  Speaker 5: Women who delay having a baby because you're building your
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  Speaker 5: career in your 20s, maybe into your 30s. And that's
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  Speaker 5: why then you see people having kids much later.
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  Speaker 1: But I mean, has your mom ever not worked?
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  Speaker 5: No, but it was different then because think about it.
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  Speaker 5: There was so much emphasis on getting married, giving birth
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  Speaker 5: to children and then doing whatever. But now. Women have
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  Speaker 5: the financial means to be single as much as they
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  Speaker 5: want to, to delay family planning, et cetera, all of that.
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  Speaker 9: I don't think women are like not having children. I
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  Speaker 9: think we're having a lot fewer children. So in our
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  Speaker 9: grandparents and even our parents' days, it was normal to
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  Speaker 9: come from a family where there were nine, ten of you.
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  Speaker 9: When last did you have a family that has more
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  Speaker 9: than four or five children? kids all together under one
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  Speaker 9: roof etc like it's just maybe not that we're having
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  Speaker 9: so like we're not having kids we're just having fewer
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  Speaker 9: kids so people are maybe choosing to have one instead
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  Speaker 9: of five one and done two instead of eight.
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  Speaker 8: I think cindy might be right i have a friend
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  Speaker 8: who's got he's got four beautiful kids beautiful kids and
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  Speaker 8: even that's exactly the response everyone has four four.
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  Speaker 1: Apparently, by the third one, they just raised themselves.
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  Speaker 2: I think they've had a different experience.
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  Speaker 1: I don't think that's the experience they've had.
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  Speaker 9: My husband's grandfather, I stand to be corrected, came from 16.
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  Speaker 3: Your?
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  Speaker 9: 16 children.
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  Speaker 1: Because it was just.
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  Speaker 9: Same mom.
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  Speaker 1: What you did.
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  Speaker 7: Yeah.
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  Speaker 9: Same mom, same dad, 16 kids.
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  Speaker 5: So imagine that, right?
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  Speaker 2: If you.
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  Speaker 5: If you guys each had nine kids. Cindy, you've got
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  Speaker 5: two and you've got one. Well, when you think about it,
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  Speaker 5: to have 16 kids... in your adult life, how many
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  Speaker 5: times did you have to be pregnant?
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  Speaker 7: Well, 16. 16?
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  Speaker 9: No, I mean during.
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  Speaker 1: Actually, yes.
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  Speaker 10: No, no, no.
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  Speaker 1: No, 16. Singular. One by one. Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop.
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  Speaker 9: And also remember, that was, I mean, this is his grandfather,
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  Speaker 9: so we're going back like a good 90 years. People
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  Speaker 9: had kids from younger. Women were having kids from when
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  Speaker 9: they were 17, 18, and you just kept going.
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  Speaker 1: No, but where did they stay? Okay, because think about
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  Speaker 1: it right now. Just put yourself.
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  Speaker 3: Right now, if you had 16 kids, where's this house?
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  Speaker 9: So you're also thinking of it, you're also comparing it
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  Speaker 9: to today's time where, what did the house look like?
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  Speaker 9: What school did they go to? It wasn't like that. 18,
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  Speaker 9: 19 years ago.
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  Speaker 1: You stayed in a farm.
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  Speaker 2: Most people, you stayed in a farm.
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  Speaker 9: You didn't get in, you didn't, you maybe went to
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  Speaker 9: school till you were about 14, 15. Shared rooms. Shared rooms,
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  Speaker 9: et cetera, et cetera. By the time the last one's born,
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  Speaker 9: the first one's pretty much out the house. So it's
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  Speaker 9: that kind of vibe. You can't have that narrative, like
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  Speaker 9: that thinking for today. So that's why, it's not that
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  Speaker 9: people are having, not having kids. Yes, there are people
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  Speaker 9: who are not having kids. And I think people in
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  Speaker 9: their 20s think very differently to us today.
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  Speaker 1: They're just having, they're not having 16.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. They're having two.
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  Speaker 3: I'm just panicked about 16 kids. I'd have to go
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  Speaker 3: by St. Stithian's hostel. Like, are you guys going to
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  Speaker 3: use this? Because I need one wing for me and
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  Speaker 3: my family.
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  Speaker 8: That is the whole Springbok touring squad.
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  Speaker 2: That's wild.
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  Speaker 5: Because at 34, when my mom was my age, she
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  Speaker 5: had three children.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 5: Think about it.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
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  Speaker 1: My mom had three kids at 26.
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  Speaker 2: You see?
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  Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying?
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  Speaker 3: So when I was 26 with no kids.
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  Speaker 1: I was just like, whew, I'm falling back here. I'm
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  Speaker 1: not tracking. I'm not tracking. 011-8838-947.
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  Speaker 3: The economists are going to come and they're going to
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  Speaker 3: do the research. You know, McKenzie literally will write a paper.
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  Speaker 3: Somebody on LinkedIn is typing an article as we.
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  Speaker 1: Speak in LinkedInese. Apparently that's the language you guys are
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  Speaker 1: using on LinkedIn. LinkedInese.
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  Speaker 3: But let's just talk about it here. You are living
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  Speaker 3: the life. You are the person that these reports are
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  Speaker 3: talking about. Why are you not having children? Or, let
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  Speaker 3: me ask it like Cindy's departure point is, why are
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  Speaker 3: you having less children?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe you've decided I'm only going to have one child.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Or two max, you know?
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  Speaker 5: You're going to drive an ugly car if you can't
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  Speaker 5: afford a V-Class. That's all I'll tell you.
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  Speaker 1: You see what I'm saying? The birth rate in South
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  Speaker 1: Africa is.
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  Speaker 3: I read an article that says it's dwindling. I was like,
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  Speaker 3: calm down with the.
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  Speaker 1: Big word, dwindling. I was like, wow.
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  Speaker 9: Okay.
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  Speaker 3: But the birth rate has severely decreased in South Africa.
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  Speaker 3: And you know what it is? Mostly it's directed at women.
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  Speaker 1: Like, why are women having this? Look guys, you're also there.
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  Speaker 7: Yeah.
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  Speaker 5: Well, they're not generally there for the rest of the
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  Speaker 5: child's life.
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  Speaker 2: But here we are.
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  Speaker 1: They're there for that three minutes.
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  Speaker 6: Okay.
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  Speaker 2: Wow.
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  Speaker 3: 084 00 00 947. Let us know in your opinion.
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  Speaker 3: It doesn't have to be educated. It doesn't have to
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  Speaker 3: be expert. It just has to be informed by your life.
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  Speaker 3: Why do you think that the birth rate in South.
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  Speaker 1: Africa has dwindled? Call, text, WhatsApp, whatever.
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  Speaker 4: From the 1980s to the early 2000s, birth rates in
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  Speaker 4: high and middle income countries were stable or at least stabilizing.
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  Speaker 1: But over the last 10.
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  Speaker 4: To 15 years, across a wide range of regions, cultures
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  Speaker 4: and level of economic development, they've gone into steep decline.
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  Speaker 5: Black South Africans are having fewer and fewer babies every
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  Speaker 5: single year.
• 7:30
  Speaker 6: There are several factors that have influenced these changes. South
• 7:33
  Speaker 6: Africa is backing the trend when it comes to global
• 7:36
  Speaker 6: birth rates. However, that trend is now shifting for a
• 7:40
  Speaker 6: variety of reasons.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: Birth rates have rapidly declined in recent years.
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  Speaker 3: South African women are having less and less children.
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  Speaker 1: What is going on?
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  Speaker 10: When you look at the stats, over 55% of parents
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  Speaker 10: are single moms.
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  Speaker 1: So women are just choosing not to raise kids alone anymore.
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  Speaker 3: The women have finally realized that they've got the gift
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  Speaker 3: of and the freedom of free will.
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  Speaker 8: My main reason for not having a child or not
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  Speaker 8: having children would be.
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  Speaker 2: Safety in this country.
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  Speaker 8: Women and children are so unsafe in this country and
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  Speaker 8: bringing a child into this country.
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  Speaker 1: It would be an injustice for the poor child, you know?
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  Speaker 10: My grandmother had 12 kids, six boys and six girls.
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  Speaker 1: Aye, guys, no. My dad was the firstborn of the
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  Speaker 1: 16 children. Imagine, 16. Why does poverty, infertility go hand
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  Speaker 1: in hand? Why does who?
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  Speaker 2: Poverty and fertility. Hey, now you're asking questions, eh?
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  Speaker 12: Oh, we are.
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  Speaker 1: Not qualified to answer such things. But the thing is, obviously, you.
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  Speaker 3: Know, the stats come out and then the debates happen,
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  Speaker 3: but then both sides will be represented, right? Someone is saying,
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  Speaker 3: if you're having fewer children, who must pay your pension
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  Speaker 3: in 2050? My darling, at the rate that these little
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  Speaker 3: ones are working, we'll still be working in 2050.
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  Speaker 11: Also, to expect your children to, like, look after you
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  Speaker 11: is weird no but you must remember this is around
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  Speaker 11: tax okay right so if you if there are less
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  Speaker 11: uh you know if our population is going down it
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  Speaker 11: means in 20 30 years time there's going to be less.
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  Speaker 1: People contributing to the to the purse to the country's
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  Speaker 1: purse that looks after older people yeah that's not a debate.
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  Speaker 5: Oh my god are we the wicked witches yeah wow.
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  Speaker 1: Another thing, guys, is that teen.
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  Speaker 3: Pregnancy is down because we've got better access to.
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  Speaker 1: Contraceptives as well.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, people are making different choices, better choices, right?
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  Speaker 1: So, Tegufato in Pretoria, good morning.
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  Speaker 7: Good morning.
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  Speaker 1: How are you, Tegufato? Good, good. Talk to us. What
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  Speaker 1: do you think it is? Your opinion. It doesn't have
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  Speaker 1: to be an educated one. It has to be your opinion.
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  Speaker 12: Personally, I think most of the people who are having
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  Speaker 12: less kids now, like me, because we're coming from big families.
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  Speaker 1: And we know how hard it is yeah I'm.
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  Speaker 3: A 10th child from a family of 10 and I
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  Speaker 3: feel like I raised myself oh you're the 10th child
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  Speaker 3: from a family of 10 and you feel like you
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  Speaker 3: raised yourself so there's a little bit of trauma in
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  Speaker 3: forming your decision.
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  Speaker 1: By the time my mom had me, she was tired
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  Speaker 1: of raising kids. And do you have kids? I only
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  Speaker 1: have one. And you're saying that's it? It's one and done?
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  Speaker 12: I think I only have one space left in me.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, one more left in you.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, because when you have one child, and for me,
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  Speaker 3: I have one child biologically, right?
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  Speaker 1: I've got two children that came with marriage.
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  Speaker 2: But.
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  Speaker 3: sometimes I'm just like, oh, but I need to give
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  Speaker 3: him a.
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  Speaker 1: Sibling just so, like, he has, it's him.
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  Speaker 3: And somebody else and it's them against the world, like
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  Speaker 3: kind of a unit type of thing. Yes, yes.
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  Speaker 12: Because when you're from a big family, you know, like,
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  Speaker 12: one thing about me, I know my.
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  Speaker 7: Siblings got my back.
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  Speaker 3: Like, I have like six brothers and I cannot, like, but.
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  Speaker 12: The trauma is what is getting us. And the fact
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  Speaker 12: that now, back then.
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  Speaker 1: Currency, could be deadbeats in marriage.
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  Speaker 10: Oh.
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  Speaker 12: But now, now we live.
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  Speaker 1: Oh, back then, parents could be deadbeats in marriage.
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  Speaker 5: Yes.
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  Speaker 1: So you have a father, but he's absent.
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  Speaker 5: He's absent.
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  Speaker 1: Your parents are married.
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  Speaker 5: Okay.
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  Speaker 3: But now that's different because you will get called out.
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  Speaker 3: There's no ways you can be just idling in the moment.
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  Speaker 7: Now it's called out.
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  Speaker 12: Oh, ladies, don't sit around now. When you see that
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  Speaker 12: this husband of mine is a deadbeat.
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  Speaker 1: The lady lives. Yeah. Options, guys.
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  Speaker 12: So now I'm not leaving.
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  Speaker 5: With eight kids.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh, so the option to leave has become quite...
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  Speaker 1: What word am I looking for? Look, you've got options
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  Speaker 1: to leave. And when you've got eight kids, you're not leaving.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, it's impossible.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: It's just impossible to do that, obviously.
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  Speaker 1: I think the other aspect of it all is.
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  Speaker 5: With more education, more access to whatever, people know that
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  Speaker 5: you do have other options to make it happen for
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  Speaker 5: yourself later. For example, even if you don't have a child,
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  Speaker 5: let's say the conventional way, you know, there are interventions.
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  Speaker 5: If you choose to have a baby, let's say past
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  Speaker 5: 35 and whatever, you could freeze your eggs. Do you
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  Speaker 5: know what I mean?
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that whole thing.
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  Speaker 3: Because remember, in our 20s, there was like this body
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  Speaker 3: clock thing.
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: Can you not hear your body clock ticking?
• 12:37
  Speaker 13: Whoa, whoa, whoa.
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: Cameron Diaz just had a baby. Hailey Berry just had
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: a baby. These people are in their 50s. So the
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  Speaker 3: science is there now.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: For you to kind of delay the decision. Okay. Nzwano
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: in the Val. Good morning.
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  Speaker 7: Good morning, Anneli in the club. Morning.
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  Speaker 1: Morning, Nzwano.
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  Speaker 3: How are you?
• 12:55
  Speaker 7: Hi, I'm doing good.
• 12:56
  Speaker 13: I'm doing good.
• 12:57
  Speaker 7: How are you guys?
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: We are good.
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: This is such an interesting conversation we're having here because
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: everybody's kind of speaking from their lived experience. And I
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: think that's what's making it even more special. We're just
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: really getting to know each other here. So, Nzano, what
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  Speaker 3: do you.
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  Speaker 1: Think it is?
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  Speaker 3: There are less, the birth rate is declining in South Africa.
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  Speaker 3: What do you think it is?
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  Speaker 7: I think it's two factors. The first factor is the
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  Speaker 7: fact that our parents and our grandparents were raised in farms,
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  Speaker 7: so money was never a factor for them. It was
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  Speaker 7: always the case of having many kids, you know, it
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  Speaker 7: was always a duty, which then brings me to the
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  Speaker 7: second aspect of it, which is value. We are living
• 13:39
  Speaker 7: in a time where values have largely shifted. We no
• 13:43
  Speaker 7: longer hold dear the things that our parents held dear,
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  Speaker 7: that our grandparents held dear. I mean, for them, being
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  Speaker 7: a parent was the greatest joy, was the greatest accomplishment.
• 13:54
  Speaker 7: in the world, and today we actually don't look at that.
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  Speaker 7: We look at our careers, we look at material accumulation,
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  Speaker 7: we no longer think generational, we no longer think legacy.
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  Speaker 7: Even when we think legacy, we think one or two kids,
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  Speaker 7: but our grandparents and our parents were intentional In the
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  Speaker 7: sense that the Dutch legacy meant the plethora of children,
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  Speaker 7: you know. Once you have more than five, seven, ten kids,
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  Speaker 7: that means your legacy is secure. That means you are
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  Speaker 7: leaving a mark on this country.
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  Speaker 1: And also, to your point, Wenanzuano, is that the living
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  Speaker 1: in farms, because.
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  Speaker 3: We all lived here and the extended family also lives here.
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  Speaker 3: So the support structure around raising your children, you are
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: not raising your children alone.
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  Speaker 1: Right now, a lot of people are doing it alone.
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  Speaker 3: There isn't a grandmother or a grandfather or an aunt
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  Speaker 3: and uncle where we all live in the same compound
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  Speaker 3: where I know that childcare will be there if I
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  Speaker 3: need to go off to work. Where I know that
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  Speaker 3: somebody's cooking, right? We're bringing all our food. Like on
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  Speaker 3: a farm, we're all communal. You're bringing pumpkin, you're bringing potatoes, I'm.
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  Speaker 1: Bringing the meat. And then there will always be provision.
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  Speaker 3: Whereas now, because we're so like isolated, then you don't
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  Speaker 3: have that structure.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, you said it's twofold. What's the other one?
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  Speaker 7: Which is why I brought the one of values. You know,
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  Speaker 7: we have shifted values so much. Because in the olden days,
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  Speaker 7: people really didn't mind their children being raised by the community.
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  Speaker 7: Hence the saying, it takes a village to raise a child. Today,
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  Speaker 7: we are so skeptical about that. You can't do that
• 15:30
  Speaker 7: to my child. Who do you think you are? And therefore,
• 15:34
  Speaker 7: we then bubble ourselves in this isolation. Our values have changed.
• 15:39
  Speaker 7: That's why you see such a moral decay in society
• 15:42
  Speaker 7: because people no longer value things that they used to
• 15:44
  Speaker 7: value before.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: That's very interesting. I think that's very true.
• 15:48
  Speaker 8: Because once again, legacy, when you speak to someone about legacy,
• 15:51
  Speaker 8: it's often money. It's about money or, you know what
• 15:54
  Speaker 8: I'm saying?
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: It's not about your children. Or business.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: Or properties.
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: No one thinks of children as legacy anymore.
• 16:01
  Speaker 5: That is sad that the next generation won't have a
• 16:04
  Speaker 5: version of me or 10.
• 16:06
  Speaker 8: How sad?
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: 10 versions of you.
• 16:08
  Speaker 5: It could have been my legacy if I'd reproduced. There
• 16:11
  Speaker 5: won't be mini-me's in 50 years.
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: Thank God for small birds. That's a very, very close
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: to home topic. I am working, I am studying, I'm
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: doing my PhD.
• 16:23
  Speaker 10: I was the girl that thought, you know what, my
• 16:26
  Speaker 10: mother comes from 12 kids and I'll probably have a
• 16:29
  Speaker 10: big family as well. But when I discovered the realities
• 16:34
  Speaker 10: and the cost, the high cost of living, of raising
• 16:37
  Speaker 10: a child, I mean, I've got three kids, I can't
• 16:39
  Speaker 10: even buy myself a nice ride because I'm I'm like,
• 16:42
  Speaker 10: oh my gosh. Previously, it was expected.
• 16:46
  Speaker 11: You get engaged, you get married, you have children. And
• 16:49
  Speaker 11: in all fairness and honestly, some parents should not have
• 16:54
  Speaker 11: had children.
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: This is true.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: Because just because you've got the equipment to make kids,
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: it doesn't mean you should have kids.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: No, exactly.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: This is another thing.
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: And I think a bit of self-reflection would go a
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: long way because it's a forever decision.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: You can never just opt out of it.
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: So especially if you're not sure, I think delay it
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: a bit.
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: Well, I think a lot of people are choosing to
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: do that.
• 17:18
  Speaker 8: I look at amongst my peers and, you know, like
• 17:21
  Speaker 8: people get married and you go, okay, cool.
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: So when are you guys going to start a family?
• 17:24
  Speaker 8: That's a conversation that's happening less and less amongst my peers, right?
• 17:28
  Speaker 8: And people I know, it's not assumed that because you
• 17:32
  Speaker 8: get married, you're going to have kids.
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: Sonny, you're in Rotterdam. Good morning.
• 17:36
  Speaker 12: Good morning.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: Morning, Sonny.
• 17:39
  Speaker 11: How are you?
• 17:40
  Speaker 10: I'm good.
• 17:41
  Speaker 12: Thank you.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: Talk to us. What's happening?
• 17:45
  Speaker 12: I'm also part of this crew.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: The no kids crew.
• 17:50
  Speaker 12: No, no, I do have kids, but very late in life.
• 17:53
  Speaker 12: And I only had two coming from a family of six.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: Okay. Why?
• 17:59
  Speaker 12: Reason number one, connectivity takes a bit long.
• 18:04
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 18:04
  Speaker 12: And you also want to know who you are before
• 18:07
  Speaker 12: you have the children. Whereas previously that wasn't, that didn't matter.
• 18:10
  Speaker 12: You're a mother, go on.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you figured it out whilst you were a parent.
• 18:14
  Speaker 12: Exactly. And that leads to reason number two, that, I mean,
• 18:19
  Speaker 12: six of six not that our parents were bad, but
• 18:22
  Speaker 12: there was an intentional parenting. As long as you're fed,
• 18:25
  Speaker 12: you're clothed, you're schooled, you're taken care of. Whereas now,
• 18:29
  Speaker 12: the conversations between parents, especially mothers, because I love these conversations,
• 18:33
  Speaker 12: it's always about intentional parenting, but it takes so much
• 18:38
  Speaker 12: mental load that you don't want to have too many
• 18:40
  Speaker 12: kids that you resent this decision. You want to love
• 18:44
  Speaker 12: and see it as a purpose in life, see it
• 18:46
  Speaker 12: as a calling and fulfill it by giving it your best.
• 18:49
  Speaker 12: Not that it's perfect, but you want to give it
• 18:51
  Speaker 12: the best that you could. So therefore, to stretch yourself
• 18:55
  Speaker 12: into 10 people, some people can, but most people can't.
• 18:58
  Speaker 12: And I think once we become honest with ourselves, we
• 19:00
  Speaker 12: limit to what is practical and mentally possible.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: Because....
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: Guys, having 10 kids means that somebody is not going
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: to have, one of the kids is not going to
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: have somebody at their graduation.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: One of the kids is not going to have a birthday.
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: One of the kids, you're going to miss their school meetings.
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: Somebody is going to get the short end of the stick.
• 19:19
  Speaker 12: Yes, and one of the kids will get one of
• 19:22
  Speaker 12: the older siblings' things. What do you call it? Dirty
• 19:25
  Speaker 12: to parents.
• 19:26
  Speaker 8: Yeah, well, I mean, that's the point. It's not even
• 19:28
  Speaker 8: those big things, right? It's just homework.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: Think about homework.
• 19:30
  Speaker 8: Think about you get home, Kaloni, and you spend time
• 19:32
  Speaker 8: with your kids trying to help your homework. You got
• 19:34
  Speaker 8: six kids, seven kids. It's impossible. You can't give every
• 19:37
  Speaker 8: person half an hour.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: It's not possible.
• 19:39
  Speaker 12: Now you're going to prioritize who has exams and who
• 19:42
  Speaker 12: just has calories.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
• 19:44
  Speaker 12: And you're right.
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: You just don't know the type of child you have
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: when you've got 10 kids. because you're not spending enough
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: time with them to understand but oh this one is
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: like this this one's personality like this this one's character
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: like this there's just not enough of you to go
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: around yeah but then it's back to those systems where
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: i was saying that there was a support structure you
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: know the uncles and the aunts and the grandparents were
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: there to be the deputy parents and not the kids be.
• 20:08
  Speaker 8: The deputy parents Well, I mean, that's the thing. So
• 20:10
  Speaker 8: because we're living longer, we're working longer as well. People
• 20:13
  Speaker 8: aren't retiring at 60 or 65 anymore. Some people are
• 20:16
  Speaker 8: working much longer than that. So now your parents are
• 20:18
  Speaker 8: still working. You can't expect them to be driving grandkids
• 20:22
  Speaker 8: around in the afternoons to take them to swimming, right?
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: So now we're hiring nannies.
• 20:27
  Speaker 8: Think about the rise, and I mean amongst all of us,
• 20:32
  Speaker 8: the rise of au pairs, right?
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: It's like a proper thing.
• 20:35
  Speaker 8: People turn 19 now and they become au pairs and they–
• 20:39
  Speaker 8: to help other families out because you don't have that
• 20:42
  Speaker 8: support structure.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: Is it Ilka?
• 20:45
  Speaker 9: Yes.
• 20:46
  Speaker 13: Good morning, Anela, and the club.
• 20:47
  Speaker 4: Morning, Ilka.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: How are you doing, my darling?
• 20:50
  Speaker 13: I'm good.
• 20:50
  Speaker 10: I'm good.
• 20:50
  Speaker 13: How is everyone?
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: We are great. I've just finished my first cup of
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: coffee for the morning.
• 20:56
  Speaker 13: Same here.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: Ra-ra.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: Cheers to you and us. So what do you think, Ilka?
• 21:01
  Speaker 13: So I think a lot of the points have been raised.
• 21:05
  Speaker 13: I would like to add a few different ones into
• 21:08
  Speaker 13: the mix. I myself don't have kids and it's also
• 21:12
  Speaker 13: a very deliberate decision and a big part for me
• 21:15
  Speaker 13: is the question on do I want to raise kids
• 21:17
  Speaker 13: in the society and in the world that we are
• 21:19
  Speaker 13: heading towards or living in. So if I look at
• 21:23
  Speaker 13: what's happening and I'm in touch with a lot of
• 21:26
  Speaker 13: young people, people growing up with massive anxiety, you know,
• 21:31
  Speaker 13: very low self-esteem. We have security issues and safety issues
• 21:35
  Speaker 13: for our kids already. And as a strong environmentalist, it's
• 21:40
  Speaker 13: also the question, do I want to bring someone into
• 21:43
  Speaker 13: the world when I'm not really sure what's the planet
• 21:46
  Speaker 13: left that I'm leaving behind for the kids. I think
• 21:50
  Speaker 13: for me, it's also those bigger questions on into which
• 21:54
  Speaker 13: society and into which world are we bringing kids at
• 21:56
  Speaker 13: the moment.
• 21:57
  Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean, look, very valid, right? We know what's
• 22:01
  Speaker 8: happening on the rest of the planet. Luckily, Africa's map
• 22:04
  Speaker 8: has now been redrawn, so we're bigger. More space for us.
• 22:06
  Speaker 10: Leg room.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: But it's true.
• 22:10
  Speaker 8: I watched a lot of these documentaries about the food
• 22:13
  Speaker 8: that we consume, right? The poverty in places in the world.
• 22:17
  Speaker 8: And I can understand that you go, I don't know.
• 22:19
  Speaker 8: I don't know if my child in 70 years' time
• 22:22
  Speaker 8: is going to be on a planet that is nurturing
• 22:26
  Speaker 8: to their soul.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 22:27
  Speaker 13: Yes, and I do think kind of... at the moment
• 22:31
  Speaker 13: in South Africa, we're not talking too much about it,
• 22:33
  Speaker 13: but the climate change is real, right? So we see
• 22:37
  Speaker 13: the floods coming. We see the, the more wildfires end
• 22:40
  Speaker 13: and end. So the question is, is that the world
• 22:43
  Speaker 13: that I want my.
• 22:44
  Speaker 12: Child to live in?
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: No, dude, you, you are absolutely spot on.
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: And I love the fact that you brought another spin
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: to this because it's not the financial thing.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: It's not the support thing. It's the, What's going to
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: be left here?
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the community that they grow up in.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: You want to talk legacy?
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: Then, you know, do I want my legacy then to
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: be living in this place?
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: We are hardly looking after this place.
• 23:07
  Speaker 10: Exactly.
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: You know, for ourselves.
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: So what are we leaving for the next generation, the
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: generation after that?
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: Tough questions.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Olga. What do you do for
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: a living? Are you a school teacher? You said you
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: deal with a lot of kids.
• 23:18
  Speaker 13: No, I actually work in an NGO in the East
• 23:20
  Speaker 13: End and it's called Kids Haven and we look after
• 23:25
  Speaker 13: vulnerable children and I in particular work with young people
• 23:29
  Speaker 13: and trying to help young people to navigate the transition from...
• 23:32
  Speaker 13: being out of school or being unemployed into figuring out
• 23:35
  Speaker 13: who they are. And so these questions are very much
• 23:39
  Speaker 13: my daily work.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you for the work that you do, Ilka.
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: I know that at times it is a thankless job,
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: but I think when you see the kids that you
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: deal with go on to make something of themselves, it's
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: a bit of a pat on.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: The back for you.
• 23:52
  Speaker 7: Oh, 100%.
• 23:52
  Speaker 13: That's magic.
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: Oh, it's magic.
• 23:55
  Speaker 13: If you see someone changing and someone... just all of
• 23:59
  Speaker 13: a sudden figuring out who they are and seeing a
• 24:02
  Speaker 13: light at the end of it. I don't think you
• 24:04
  Speaker 13: get that in any other job. So, for that.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: There we go. Ilka from Craig Hall. Thank you.