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Startup fundraising mistakes: Raising too much | Founder Confessions · Founder Confessions

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Joe: biggest preconceived notions and mistakes that I made was thinking
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that bigger was always better.
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so we've raised a million dollars.
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we've gotten past 4 million in ARR with a million, and we-
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Sweta: Amazing
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Joe: have- More than double pretty much of, like, what we
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raised in the bank account.
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Sweta: We launched with that Made no purchases.
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Got no, literally, I'm not joking, there was literally zero purchases.
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I'm here with Joseph Li, the co-founder and CEO of Superdemo,
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an agentic product demo platform.
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He grew it from zero to more than four million ARR in about three years.
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Oh my gosh, so impressive.
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And even better is that it's profitable with 25% EBITDA margins.
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And what I love is that you have more than 2,000- 200,000, rather, users across
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3,000 paying companies, so your companies are your buyers, across more than 100
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100
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countries, which I'm so jealous of because I've been to 34, and I want to
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My goal is to get to 40 before 40.
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Wow.
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But 100 is impressive.
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I'm, I'm excited.
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Well, thank you so much for being here.
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Um, let's start with something super simple.
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Cool.
1:15
In plain English, tell us whom do you solve what problem for?
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Joe: Yeah.
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So we're, uh, as you mentioned, we're an agentic demo platform.
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We primarily helped, uh, help software companies-
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Sweta: Yeah
1:26
Joe: but companies in many different industries, uh, better
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demonstrate their products and their-
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Sweta: Yeah
1:31
Joe: features and their benefits, uh, across onboarding, training-
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Sweta: Yes
1:35
Joe: sales, marketing.
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So anywhere you need to explain why your product matters and what it does-
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Sweta: Yeah
1:41
Joe: Superdemo can be helpful.
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Sweta: Oh, that's incredible.
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Is there one use case that's more sticky or that people come to
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for first and, and expand into?
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Joe: Yeah.
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Sweta: Yeah.
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Tell us.
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Joe: I think anywhere where you need to drive kind of learning by doing, where
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maybe a passive video isn't as effective.
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Um, so say onboarding, training, educational content,
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as well as, uh, sales-
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Sweta: Yeah
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Joe: or anywhere within growth.
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I would say that's prob- probably where we shine the most.
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Sweta: Yeah.
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Joe: Although we have seen people use it for like L&D- and for
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their academy and support docs.
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A lot of random use cases.
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We are a fully, uh, product-led growth tool, so-
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Sweta: Amazing
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Joe: we don't get to determine how people use our product.
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They just come on board, sign up, and use it how they want.
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Sweta: Oh my gosh, that is so fun.
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Um, let's get into the topic that we're here for, which is your confession.
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Tell us what did you assume about building a business, what goes into building a
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business, that turned out to be wrong?
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Joe: Well, I've, I had a lot of assumptions coming in.
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Right?
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I think you have to, to, to kind of be a little bit naive when you first
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start a company, but I think one of the biggest preconceived notions and
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mistakes that I made was thinking that bigger was always better.
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Sweta: Yeah.
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Joe: And, it's hard to shake that feeling when TechCrunch and LinkedIn
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and all these social media platforms routinely celebrate the big milestones,
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money raised, big head count.
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Sweta: Yes.
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Joe: And that's what is defined as success, uh, I very much
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bought into that when I first-
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Sweta: Yeah
3:15
Joe: built my first company, raised way too much, gave up a lot of control,
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gave up optionality on the type of company that I could build, and, I paid
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for it the first time around, and, uh-
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Sweta: Yeah
3:25
Joe: definitely trying to do it a little differently, uh, with Superdemo.
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Sweta: Oh my gosh.
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Do you, can you tell us a little bit more about what, what were
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those, what, what went into it?
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What happened?
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How did you learn this?
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Joe: Yeah.
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I think, um, uh, for me, I think the first, uh, mistake was raising too
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much without understanding what type of game I wanted to play, right?
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Sweta: Mm.
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Joe: So, um-
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Sweta: Pause for a second.
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Tell me what you mean by game I wanted to play.
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Joe: Yeah.
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Sweta: What do you mean?
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Joe: Yeah.
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Sweta: Break that down.
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Joe: So telling, uh, determining the type of outcome that you're happy with, right?
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I think a lot of people raise a pre-seed round, a seed round, Series A, a Series B.
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Sweta: Yeah.
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Joe: That's, that's the ladder that they wanna, uh, kinda climb, without really
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understanding the implications of what happens when they raise that money, right?
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Sweta: Yeah.
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Joe: Because, uh, once you start to build up your preference
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stack, you have a certain hurdle-
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Sweta: Yeah
4:14
Joe: you need to surpass, and you're no longer trying to hit,
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uh, a base hit or a double.
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Sweta: Yeah.
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Joe: You need to hit a home run in order to- Yeah make any money.
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Um, and that's totally fine if that's your goal as a founder-
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and you want a rocket ship and nothing else.
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Yeah.
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But, uh, when I was first starting my company at 20, um,
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I hadn't made up that mind.
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Okay.
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I didn't know what type of company I- Yeah wanted to build, and I just
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went down that track, raising money, going from one round to another until-
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you know, liquidity was almost, uh, impossible to get to for us, uh-
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Sweta: Yeah
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Joe: based on our stage.
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Sweta: Oh my gosh.
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Okay, since we're talking about it, I feel, I feel like you, people
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would think that I set this up.
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This is not set up at all, at all.
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Um, but we have to talk about this.
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So since this is perfect transition into what I wanted to talk about is,
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one of the things I'm very bullish on, that I believe in, is this concept
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of what I call your wealth garden.
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And, and basically what that means is that I believe that in your
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lifetime, every human being's gonna have lots of different income streams:
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active, semi-passive, passive.
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We're gonna have jobs, we're gonna have businesses, multiple
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businesses- assets.
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And there are different income dreams that are right for you for the season in life.
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And so you started to talk about this already, but let's
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double-click a little bit on-
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Joe: Sure
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Sweta: why, why this business right now, how does that fit into your wealth garden?
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How is it working out?
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Joe: Yeah.
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It's a, it's an interesting question because I think to a certain extent,
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until you get to a level of escape velocity, you do want to have radical
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focus- Yeah on like a core in- a core income stream or core
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kind of
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channel- Yeah or core business that you're building, and for me, that
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compounding asset is Superdemo, right?
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Sweta: Yeah.
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Joe: Um, you know, uh, it got 100% of my, my investment, my resources-
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Yeah my blood, sweat, and tears until I built it to what it is, uh, now.
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Um, but I, I definitely do think, um, you know, having multiple income streams
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and multiple- Yeah compounding assets is the way to go, um, especially
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in our AI native era we're in.
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100%. You know, things are coming in and out of fashion so quickly.
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Oh, yeah.
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So what that is for me, I don't know.
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Uh- but I've built Superdemo to the point where I think,
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um, I have optionality.
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We can raise a big round.
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Yeah.
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We can sell the company.
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We can continue operating.
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Sweta: Yeah.
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Joe: Um, and that's precisely what I wanted when I was building the
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company and trying to be as capital efficient, uh, as we are today.
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Sweta: Yeah.
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I- if you're comfortable answering, I'm curious What is,
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what does it look like for you?
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What does success look like in, in terms- Oh, man.
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is it, is, you want to keep What do you want it to for your life?
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Joe: It's, that's tough.
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That's, uh, and that's the challenge as an entrepreneur, right?
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Yeah.
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Because you're, you're always pushing, and grass is always greener, right?
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Yeah.
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So you never stop to, to look back and, and smell the roses and celebrate
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the successes you've gotten to.
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Yeah.
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I feel like for me, the milestone has always been changing, and
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it's always been shifting.
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Of course.
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And that's something that I'm trying to get better at, um-
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Yeah being comfortable with.
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It's, "Hey, I don't need to build a billion-dollar company today. I can
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take stepping stones to get there." and for me, the ultimate goal is
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how do I leave a legacy, right?
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How do I, obviously I'm gonna leave behind this life at some point.
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How do I leave behind something that is not as perishable?
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But that doesn't have to have to happen in age 31.
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It can happen age 50.
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It can happen age- 60, but you got to celebrate the milestones and enjoy- the
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journey as well, which I don't do as much, and I I'm trying to get better at doing.
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Sweta: It's, it's such a good point, and this is a conversation that has come
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up with so many founders where I think, you know, entrepreneurship truly is like
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the, it's the biggest self-development challenge you will ever take on.
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And so there's, I think, so much inner work that's involved with continuing
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to build a business that remains in alignment as you're actually growing
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and changing and evolving, right?
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Yeah.
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And that's, that's hard.
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Yeah.
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Um, so I appreciate you, you opening up about that.
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I think it's, it's, it's an undertaking- Of course
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and it's always evolving.
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Yeah, I agree with that.
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Um, so let's talk about your customers.
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What's something that's top of mind for them, and what's your hot take on it?
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Joe: Yeah.
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Um, I don't know if this is a, a very much a hot take nowadays, but, um,
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customers don't want to talk to a sales rep before buying your software, right?
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Yeah.
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Um, yet people still make potential customers and leads jump through hoops.
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Yeah.
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Fill out a bunch of forms.
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Ugh.
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Wait around three, four, five, six, you know, days, only to have them
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come back and say, "Hey, you're not qualified for a demo." Yeah.
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Or you have to book a discovery call where you don't even get
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to see the product, right?
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Yeah.
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And then you, you need to schedule another call- Yeah to, to see the product.
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So I think- Yeah, and then
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Sweta: go through seven experiences to figure out what the real price is.
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Joe: Exactly.
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Yeah, it's really fun.
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Exactly.
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So I think- Really fun to
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Sweta: buyer.
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Joe: Um, buyers are more educated than ever before.
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Yeah.
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And, um, buyers have less patience, or they have way more options.
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So by the time you're introducing this friction and lag into your sales process,
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they've probably already done demos with three, four, five different other vendors.
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Yeah.
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So if you're not able to show value and clearly articulate to the customer why
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you're a great option- Um, you're gonna lose out, and that's precisely what we're
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trying to help, uh, our customers with.
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Sweta: Yeah.
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Is that something that your customers come to you with?
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Is that something like top of mind for them?
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They're talking about it as part of your messaging, it comes up?
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I'm curious sort of, yeah, how, how this
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Joe: shows up.
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Yeah.
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So definitely it's a core problem that our customers have because especially now
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people are trying to be, uh, efficient.
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Sweta: Yeah.
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Joe: Right?
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They're trying to do more with less, and AI does unlock that.
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Um, but right now, if they're beholden to the traditional sales process of one rep
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does one- Yeah demo, you're blocked by the time zone that you operate in, you're
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blocked by the language that you speak.
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Yeah.
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You're blocked by your availability.
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Of course.
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So, um, you know, you limit the, the opportunity space that you're able
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to kind of, uh, attack as a company.
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Yeah.
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Um, and again, yeah, that's why we built our AI demo agent, and, um, the
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aim is to help them kind of unleash, uh, the, the opportunities that are
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ahe- ahead of them without having to necessarily increase head count.
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Sweta: Oh my gosh, yeah.
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So, so fascinating.
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So interesting.
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Um, so much AI within AI.
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It's, it's fascinating.
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Like this is the world we live in.
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You know?
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This is, this is it.
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Um, yeah, let's talk about, um, something related to customers again.
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So something that my co-host for this limited series, Ashley Grace Jefferson,
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is super bullish on, is that AI will push businesses back to fundamentals.
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Joe: Mm-hmm.
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Sweta: Um, and the biggest one is really knowing your customers
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in a really intimate way.
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And Ashley believes that IRL or in real life events and community are the way
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to do it, to really understand them.
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So with that in mind, what's something that comes to mind for you that
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you've learned about your customers that you could've only learned-
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Joe: Yeah
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Sweta: in, in real life?
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Joe: I think the biggest lesson is, um, uh, people forget how big of a
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difference the human touch makes, um- Yeah within the entire
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customer experience and life cycle.
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Um, some of our most loyal customers and our happiest customers are folks that
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had an opportunity, despite us being PLG and having 200,000 different users,
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um, had a chance to interface with me inside of support, uh, channels or- Yeah
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uh, having me jump on and have a call with them for 15 minutes impromptu to
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resolve an issue- Yeah or onboard them and/or walk them through best practices.
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Um, I think people that have had those human experiences that then
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had that hand-to-hand kind of high touch experience, um, they're the
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ones that retain the best, and they're the ones that are the net promoters
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kind of singing the praises- Yeah
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for Superdemo.
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So as much as automation and, um, you know, optimizing your process is a
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really integral part of- Yeah you know, scaling your company, um, I'm
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finding that- Having a better human, more supportive experience- is
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actually the biggest differentiator between product A and product B, because
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technology nowadays can be copied, right?
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Copied, yeah.
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It's not as defensible.
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Sweta: Yeah.
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I, I so agree with you, and, um, you used a phrase that is something that I totally
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believe in, that I stand for, is my whole methodology that I, that I coach founders
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in is called happy paying customers.
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Like, you have to just focus on that.
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Focus on the growing number of happy paying customers, focus on what
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that means for your business, and that, that, that everything falls
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into place if you can do that.
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Beginning, middle, end, doesn't matter, at all times.
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So really love that.
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Um, and I'm really curious, is there, you know, this is kind, gonna sound
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ridiculous, uh, when I say this out loud, but I, I can't believe this is
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the time we live in, but I feel like somehow there's, the moat is having
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some sort of, like, human-led marketing.
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So is that something that you're thinking about?
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I know it sounds crazy, right?
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Like we need to But, like, is that something that you're doing?
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Is that something you're thinking about in terms of building
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community or doing events, right?
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As a PLG company I'm
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curious
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if you're thinking about it and how that kind of
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Does that hurt your brain?
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Joe: 100%.
13:34
I mean, that's why I'm doing this right now, right?
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I'm putting my face out there and telling our story because, uh, people
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want to buy from people, right?
13:42
Yeah.
13:42
People wanna work
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with people, not cold software.
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Yeah.
13:45
So, um, I very much believe in building a narrative and building a personal brand,
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not just for the CEO, but for all members of, uh, the employee base, 'cause they all
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have their own unique stories- Yes, yes
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and, and, and lessons to tell.
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Uh, me personally, I try to lead by example.
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I, I have a personal YouTube channel- Oh, fun where I literally talk through
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and chronicle some of the lessons and failures and tactics that I learned
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over 10 years of building businesses.
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Uh, my co-founder does the same thing.
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Amazing.
14:14
Um, I encourage our, our employees- Yeah to, to actively post,
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uh, short form, long form.
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Yeah.
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All different types of content.
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Really, it's up to them what they want to share.
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Yeah.
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But the more we put out into the world in a kind of a raw and unadulterated,
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like, honest way, uh, sharing our lessons and triumphs and failures- Yeah
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um, that's gonna build loyalty and build- Absolutely our
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brand more than anything else.
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Sweta: Yeah.
14:38
Absolutely.
14:39
I love that.
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And I think it's such a good point too about not just the founders doing it, but
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also having employees be part of t- their personal brand, talking about it, right?
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And that's so underrated, right?
14:51
It's And let me tell you, it's a lot cheaper than paying influencers.
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So.
14:54
It's
14:54
Joe: true.
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It's hard to get them to do it, but, you know- uh, when
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you do, it's super effective.
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Sweta: Oh my gosh.
15:00
Yeah.
15:00
Yes.
15:01
It's so effective.
15:01
That's incredible.
15:02
Okay.
15:03
So, um, tell me now that this You know, you've been doing this for a
15:08
little bit now, and the world has quite, changed quite dramatic- Yeah
15:11
dramatically since you started.
15:13
Um, tell me h- what it's like building a business in 2026.
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What's, what's top of mind for you?
15:19
Like, what the Yeah, what's happening?
15:21
Joe: Um, I think there's constant whiplash, right?
15:24
Oh.
15:24
Um, I feel like every day you feel like you're going to be disrupted, and that's
15:30
part of the journey of being a founder.
15:31
One day you, you know, uh, hit a huge milestone, like hitting
15:36
4 million, 5 million ARR.
15:38
The other night, you know, uh, the day after, you end up churning a big
15:41
customer, or there's a new product that is launching- Yeah online
15:45
that looks like it's gonna disrupt you.
15:47
But I think, uh, still, um, one of the superpowers that a founder
15:53
can have nowadays is having focus.
15:55
It's very, very easy to get, uh, distracted.
15:59
Yeah.
15:59
There's,
15:59
like
15:59
a new shiny thing, a new opportunity, a new tool or an
16:03
opportunity space to pivot into.
16:05
Um- And I think some founders think the world is moving a
16:10
lot faster than it actually is.
16:12
I think we're a little bit in an echo chamber- Yeah because when you go
16:15
on tech Twitter, that's all you see.
16:17
You see other founders.
16:18
Yeah.
16:18
And you walk out into the world, and one of the beautiful things about New
16:21
York is you see people from other walks of life, and you say, "Hey, actually,
16:25
um, not everything is existential. Not everything- No is changing at this
16:29
pace." And it's, society's gonna take time to transition, and there's many
16:33
opportunities that are gonna open up as a result of that change management.
16:36
Yeah.
16:36
Um, so yeah, staying focused on your mission and your vision and, and staying
16:41
on track while still obviously being cognizant of changes and being, uh, nimble
16:46
and flexible, uh, to your surroundings.
16:48
I think, um, that's something that more founders, including
16:51
myself, can be better at doing.
16:52
Sweta: Yeah.
16:53
That makes a ton of sense.
16:54
And I'm curious if in the last, like, six months or 12 months or something,
16:59
like, have there been big changes in the way that you are operating
17:04
your business or- the marketing moves that you're making, right?
17:07
Like, uh, tell, tell me how have things, like- Yeah shifted a little bit?
17:10
And- Uh, particularly I'm interested in how the economic, like macroeconomics
17:16
around it, right, has affected your, your business of what's happening, right?
17:19
One thing you mentioned was anybody can replicate the product now.
17:22
Yeah, yeah.
17:22
Like
17:23
that's one part, but there's more to it than that, right?
17:24
Totally.
17:25
Joe: I think externally what we're moving towards is how do we, um, own more jobs to
17:29
be done- Hmm and how do we become less of a point solution, but a deeper embedded
17:33
solution within someone's workflow.
17:35
Yeah.
17:35
So not only being in GTM, but how do we embed ourselves into
17:39
support, within training, within onboarding, within sales, in the
17:43
same organization- Same organization, yeah so that you, uh, make it
17:46
harder to displace this type of tool.
17:49
And also, you know, moving towards products and software and, and features
17:53
are like our AI demo agent that is a little bit more outcomes focused, right?
17:56
Yeah.
17:57
How do we move towards the future where we charge based on a demo that's
18:02
delivered that hits a certain milestone- Sure or, um, a demo booked with
18:06
a human or a software signup that occurs as a result of our AI agent?
18:11
And, and how do we make our product a little bit more interoperable?
18:15
So for humans that wanna get a subscription and create
18:18
their own content in an- Yeah
18:19
AI-enabled way, they can.
18:20
But how do we open up our product where agents can come on board and start, you
18:24
know, recording demos, editing demos- Yeah personalizing it, and we charge per usage.
18:29
Sweta: Usage, yeah.
18:29
Joe: Um, so
18:30
those are- Wait, let's-
18:30
those are,
18:30
Sweta: yeah.
18:31
Wait, let's, let's double click on that.
18:31
That's I'm obsessed with that.
18:33
So monetization is sort of my thing and I'm obsessed with it.
18:35
Yeah.
18:35
Tell me what are the business models that you're, pricing strategies
18:39
that you're experimenting with?
18:40
What's, what's working?
18:41
A lot.
18:41
Whatever
18:41
Joe: you're
18:42
Sweta: allowed to share.
18:42
Joe: Yeah.
18:42
We, we wanna know.
18:43
It's an interesting time because I think, uh, in one side, uh, obviously
18:46
you see like Claude and, and, uh, OpenAI, which is very token-based.
18:50
But finance within most teams still want predictability, right?
18:55
Sweta: Hmm.
18:55
Joe: They don't want, uh, something that can be $100 one
18:58
day and $20, uh, the other.
19:01
Yeah.
19:01
So I think budgeting is a key constraint.
19:03
Um, obviously if you could charge based on outcomes- Yeah I think everyone
19:07
would love to charge based on outcomes.
19:09
Yeah.
19:09
But even that is a little bit murky, right?
19:11
'Cause, uh, you look at an option or an example like Fin from Intercom-
19:15
Yeah they say, uh, 99 cents per resolution, but what is a resolution?
19:19
Resolution, yeah.
19:19
How do you, how do you actually determine if that customer is happy or not?
19:23
Sweta: Yeah.
19:23
Joe: It's hard, right?
19:24
It's a little murky.
19:25
Um, so I think it's, definitely for us it's ebbing and flowing.
19:28
We're, um, you know, experimenting obviously with
19:31
seeds, feature stratification.
19:33
Mm-hmm.
19:33
Uh, our agents are fully based on just credits, so there is-
19:37
Yeah no recurring, there is no recurring nature to that pricing.
19:40
It's just, uh, we only get paid if, uh, you find value and you're making-
19:45
Right
19:46
uh, uh, having great conversations using our demo agent.
19:48
So, um, yeah, there's a lot brewing, but it's definitely more of a sensitive
19:53
thing and, and it's harder to make- Yeah massive swings when you
19:58
have obviously a business that you've built up to- Yeah a certain level.
20:02
Sweta: What's fascinating to me too is I f- I love what you were
20:05
saying about you get paid when- Their success for your customers.
20:10
And that, wouldn't that be great?
20:11
Like, I love the idea.
20:13
The truth is always in every aspect of life, money is the best incentive.
20:18
Yes.
20:18
And so I, I really like the idea of building pricing strategies where
20:23
the company's incentives are aligned with the customer's incentives.
20:27
Well, how ironic that there's also this problem of people are actually
20:31
used to what they're used to.
20:33
Yeah.
20:33
And it's really funny you say that too.
20:35
I, I specialize in the zero to one stage, so helping people figure out
20:37
literally their first pricing strategy- Yeah is, is where I come in.
20:39
And so for one of my clients, it's almost comical.
20:44
What happened was we felt that it was ethically the right thing to do to just
20:48
say, "Hey, this is a, a one-time fee," or, you know, structure it differently
20:51
instead of making it a subscription.
20:53
Yeah.
20:53
We thought that was the right thing to do.
20:55
You don't need to do this forever.
20:56
It's, it's a one-time use thing, and then you come back when
20:58
you, you, you're ready for it.
20:59
Joe: Yeah.
21:00
Sweta: We launched with that Made no purchases.
21:04
Got no, literally, I'm not joking, there was literally zero purchases.
21:07
Wow.
21:07
Very quickly got feedback and realized there's no point in
21:10
continuing with this experiment.
21:11
Nobody understood it because they, in their brain, thought that it had
21:15
to be a subscription because that's what all the competitors are doing.
21:18
Joe: Yeah.
21:19
Sweta: That's what they know how to do.
21:20
Yeah.
21:20
That's just what they're used to.
21:21
That's just At the end of the day, buyers need to make decisions to buy, and
21:25
they're really confused and overwhelmed.
21:27
Yeah.
21:28
And you just have to make it easier for them.
21:29
So I find that so ironic- I agree that you're trying to do
21:32
the right thing, and it's still hard.
21:34
Joe: Yeah.
21:34
Yeah.
21:35
Oh, my God.
21:35
And, and you bring up a really good point.
21:37
I think the most underrated and hardest challenge within software
21:41
is actually change management.
21:42
Sweta: Oh,
21:42
Joe: yes.
21:43
You can even get people to buy stuff.
21:44
You can get people to understand stuff.
21:46
How do you get people to use it as well?
21:47
Use it.
21:48
Right?
21:48
Um- Yeah and, uh, yes, there are a lot of AI native solutions.
21:52
There's way more competition than ever before.
21:54
But again, if you're embedded into someone's workflow and the way that- Yeah
21:58
they work, um, I see the same challenge all the time, right?
22:01
There are new models coming out, new ways- Yeah to do things, and I know
22:05
it's better than my current way, but sometimes I'm like, "Ah, damn." Like,
22:09
I don't, I don't care about the 30%- I
22:11
just wanna
22:11
learn performance inc- Yeah
22:13
increase- Yeah
22:13
'cause the change management for me to learn a new process and- Yes
22:16
embed it into my workflow is actually more than the 30%
22:18
Sweta: gain.
22:18
More than the 30%.
22:19
I, I absolutely agree with that.
22:21
And honestly, that, that is a big reason why I call, I call my, my methodology
22:26
happy paying customers, right?
22:27
It's we have to focus on the happy part of it.
22:29
Yeah.
22:29
And that looks different for every business.
22:31
Yes.
22:31
And I love that you're thinking really deeply and very s- in a very
22:34
sophisticated way about what happy means for your business as you
22:36
evolve and your product evolves.
22:38
That's really, really hard to do.
22:40
And I've had, I can tell you, I've had many customers where the founders
22:45
are able to get customers- Yeah
22:47
but they're not able to get them to buy.
22:49
Like
22:50
I'm talking- Mm uh, you know, massive enterprise deals get made.
22:54
Yeah.
22:54
They somehow get approved, but literally they cannot go
22:57
through the onboarding process.
22:58
Yeah.
22:58
Like
22:58
that, that literally happens at this
22:59
Like
23:00
this is what happens at the zero one stage, right?
23:01
Yeah.
23:02
And that's why I tell people the, even the paying part is not enough, right?
23:05
Like
23:05
users are definitely not enough.
23:06
Paying users are still not enough.
23:08
They need to be happy.
23:09
Yes.
23:09
Right?
23:09
They need to actually be using it and experiencing whatever
23:13
change you're promising them.
23:14
Yes.
23:14
Otherwise, what's the point of this?
23:15
Totally.
23:15
So it's incredible.
23:16
It's really, really cool how you're building this.
23:18
Is there anything else that's, that's top of mind for you as you think about
23:21
building your business in 2026, going into 2027 by the time this comes out?
23:26
Joe: Um, I think the biggest thing is echoing what I talked about earlier.
23:29
I think more founders need to be cognizant of, uh, building for optionality.
23:34
You know, it's gonna be- Yeah more challenging than ever
23:36
to, to build and exit a company.
23:39
Yeah.
23:39
So
23:40
build it in a way that aligns with your incentives and your goals- Sure
23:44
uh, of the type of company you wanna build and type of outcome you wanna get to.
23:48
Yeah.
23:48
Whether that's, uh, a million dollar exit, $10 million exit- Yeah $50 million
23:54
exit, or a billion dollar exit, right?
23:55
Yeah.
23:56
But you first need to understand the type of game you wanna play-
23:59
Sweta: Yeah
23:59
Joe: um, before actually entering the game itself, right?
24:02
Yeah.
24:02
If you- What,
24:02
Sweta: what is the game that you're playing?
24:04
Like, give, give us an example.
24:05
Joe: Um,
24:07
Sweta: Like, what are the If you're, if you're okay sharing, I'm
24:09
curious to understand the options that you've kind of have in your
24:11
mind that you're allowed to share.
24:13
Joe: Yes.
24:13
Yes, for sure.
24:14
So I think for us, the reason we've been capital efficient, so
24:17
we've raised a million dollars.
24:19
Uh, we've gotten past 4 million in ARR with a million, and we-
24:22
Sweta: Amazing
24:23
Joe: have- More than double pretty much of, like, what we
24:26
raised in the bank account.
24:27
Sure.
24:27
So, uh, we've been efficient from day one, and the reason we've built
24:31
that is, uh, in my mind, um, our team and myself, we, we hadn't made up
24:36
our mind that we wanted to go for, uh, the billion or nothing outcome.
24:41
Ah.
24:41
Or the home run outcome.
24:42
Yeah.
24:43
So not to say that isn't in the cards- Sure but, uh, we wanted to build the,
24:47
the company in a way where we were taking the middle road, where maybe we're not
24:51
growing like Eleven Labs, or we're not growing like Anthropic- Yeah but we're
24:55
growing at still a venture pace, uh, but doing it in a profitable way where- Yes,
25:00
Sweta: absolutely
25:01
Joe: we can have a $20 million exit and easily return, um, a
25:05
pretty good multiple for all of our investors - Yes uh, and myself,
25:09
or we can go for a $100 million exit.
25:11
Um- Yeah so I think there are options in front of us that we can
25:15
pursue, and, um, the key thing is I didn't have that in my first company-
25:21
Sure because I didn't know what game I wanted to play before entering.
25:24
Sweta: What, what advice do you have for someone who wants to
25:26
build with that optionality?
25:27
Because that, that's not an easy thing to manage, right?
25:30
Most investors want you to pick one or the other.
25:33
Joe: Yeah.
25:33
Um, I think, I think the key thing there is understanding the industry dynamics
25:37
and understanding founder market fit.
25:39
Before you get into an opportunity space, you want to first understand,
25:43
well, number one, am I equipped to, to excel within the industry?
25:46
Do I have some sort- Cool of unique insight?
25:48
And, um, what type of resource constraints or, uh, parameters
25:54
are you operating within?
25:55
Yeah.
25:55
If it's a very sales-led enterprise play, you, you might need to raise a
25:59
little bit more money, and it might just be, like, more of a winner takes
26:03
most or winner takes all market, right?
26:05
Yeah.
26:05
In those markets, um, you're going to have to raise a lot of money, right?
26:08
Because, uh, if you're Lyft and you're not raising money against Uber- Yeah you
26:12
know, you're going to get wiped out.
26:13
Yeah.
26:14
But if you're operating in a market that maybe has some groundswell
26:18
and you can have multiple winners.
26:20
An example could be, like, the
26:22
point of sale
26:23
system- Mm, mm-hmm
26:24
uh, market where you have, like, Lightspeed, you have Square, you have-
26:27
Sure all these different companies that are all doing incredibly well.
26:31
Sure.
26:31
Um, those are opportunity spaces where, hey, maybe I don't need to raise a war
26:36
chest to survive, and I can be capital efficient, and I can be AI native and,
26:41
um, you know, I can scale this without having to give up op- optionality.
26:45
optionality.
26:46
Sweta: Oh, I'm obsessed with that.
26:47
I think that's such a good point and ties so much to the theme, right, that we're
26:50
talking about in terms of As a founder, it's so important to figure out what is
26:55
the right type of bus- business for me, and you're literally, you're literally,
26:59
I feel like I, it's like I set you up for your wild card in, uh, content.
27:02
Like, it's lit- it's so important to know what your options are and to be able to
27:06
actually build your business in a way that actually allows you to have this,
27:09
and that starts right from the beginning of even picking the problem space itself.
27:14
Yes.
27:14
Which I think is such a good point.
27:16
Oh my gosh.
27:17
One last question for you.
27:18
I want you to repeat the sentence and then finish the sentence: If I
27:22
could go back to when I started my business, I would tell myself
27:27
Joe: If I could go back to when I first started my business, I'd tell myself
27:33
Um, to think critically about the market and the why now question.
27:40
So why is it that I wanna enter this opportunity space?
27:43
But with that being said, have enough naivety to start- because
27:48
that is the biggest hurdle entrepreneurs don't get past.
27:52
They, uh, you know, overanalyze and have an- analysis paralysis.
27:56
So you need to be naive and just take the swing, learn quickly from the swing, but
28:01
y- you know, you can't, you can't get a base hit or a home run if you don't swing.
28:05
Sweta: Oh my gosh, that is so well put.
28:07
Thank you so much, Joseph.
28:09
It
28:09
so
28:10
great to have you.
28:10
Thanks for having me.
28:11
Thank you so much for joining us, and I can't wait to hang
28:13
out with you a little bit more.
28:14
Joe: Okay.
28:14
Beautiful.
28:14
Sweta: Yay.
28:15
Thank
28:15
Joe: you.
28:15
We get, like, around 10 restock notifications a day.
28:20
We currently are sitting on, like, almost 200,000 of, like, restock
28:25
requests that can't be fulfilled.
28:27
Um, you know, what this means is that we're having, you know, a sizing issue.
28:32
We're having, uh, you know, a lack of supply, um, which is, you know,
28:36
honestly an amazing place to be in.
28:38
That means that, you know, we actually have more demand than supply