Latest / KCMS Spirit 105.3 / All Mom Does Podcast with Julie Lyles Carr - Is Homeschooling for You with Jennifer Pepito

Transcript

All Mom Does Podcast with Julie Lyles Carr - Is Homeschooling for You with Jennifer Pepito · KCMS Spirit 105.3

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Purposely. Your life. God's purpose. Listen at Purposely.com.
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: Our homes are these training grounds. It's not just a
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: place where you sleep and eat. It's actually a place
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: where you pass on your values. And when you look
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: at Deuteronomy, this is what God commands us to do
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: is know these words, know these commandments that I'm giving
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  Speaker 2: to you, know them and teach them to your children.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: And so faithfulness as mothers... involves making homes that are
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: training grounds for God's word and God's ways.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: This is the All Mom Does podcast. I am your
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  Speaker 1: fearless host, Julie Lyles Carr. We are so delighted that
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: you are here, listener. This is a show that is
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: all about you, where you are as a woman, what
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: it means in your roles as a mom, as a daughter,
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: as a sister, as a wife, As all the things, coworker,
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: you know, just on and on the list goes. We
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: want to be a place where you find inspiration and encouragement,
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: sometimes a little challenge, and overall that you are encouraged
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: in your walk with God. And that's why I'm so
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: excited to have a guest on today who is going
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: to take us through a way of looking at our
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: homes with a unique perspective, one that we don't often
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: talk about. Now, listen, I love to have people on
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: who talk about decluttering and organization and decor ideas and
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: all of that. I love all of that. But this
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: guest is going to tap into something that is the
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: layer that runs, the thread that runs underneath all of that.
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  Speaker 1: So I want you to welcome Jennifer Pepito to the show. Jennifer,
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: thanks so much for being here.
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: Thanks for having me, Julie. I'm honored to be on
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: your show.
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. Now, you and I have something in common. We
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: are gals who have supersized families. You've got seven, right?
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I have eight. We don't often run into each
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: other in the wild. So it's just so great to
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: have you on. And when I realized that you have
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: such a heartbeat to help women figure out not just
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: all the parts of trying to get organized and all
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: the things of that, but that you want us to
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: look at it through a really unique lens when it
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: comes to the homes that we are developing and building
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: for our families. So tell me what that lens is.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that question. I think that we're we're
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: kind of skirting around the idea of homes as sacred places.
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: In my book habits for a sacred home.
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  Speaker 2: I talk about how my vision for my home was
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: that it would be a school for the service of
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: the Lord, which is copied from sort of the, the
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: motto of St. Benedict who started the Benedictine monasteries. And
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: just that, yeah, our homes are these training grounds. It's
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: not just a place where you sleep and eat and,
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: It's actually a place where you pass on your values.
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: And when you look at Deuteronomy, this is what God
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: commands us to do is know these words, know these
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: commandments that I'm giving to you, know them and teach
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: them to your children. And so faithfulness as mothers involves
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: making homes that are training grounds for God's word and
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: God's ways.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: I am so inspired and compelled and challenged by this
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: because I have to tell you, Jennifer, I've just had
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: the equation sometimes really inside out. I thought if I
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: could just figure out the perfect system for making the
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: house run a little more fluidly, then there might be
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: some space for there to be some peace. And I
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: had a friend years ago, and I thought this was
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: just so luxurious and kind of wild that she did this.
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: And for her, it was just like basic SOP, standard
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: operating procedure. She would get up in the morning, she
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: would light a candle, and she would put on praise
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: and worship music. And I was so amazed by that
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: because I just felt like from the moment my feet
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: hit the floor in the morning, we were running. Now,
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: I was doing Bible stories and VeggieTales would be on
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: in the background. And I mean, I was trying to
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: do those kinds of things, but her intentionality had a
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: different level to it. So I want to hear more.
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  Speaker 1: about this idea that should we have systems and stuff
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  Speaker 1: in place? Yeah, because if it's total chaos all the time,
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  Speaker 1: that's going to be hard to convey the gospel, the
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  Speaker 1: spirit of peace, the spirit of calm that perhaps we
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  Speaker 1: want to be able to have in place that shows
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  Speaker 1: us the way that Jesus intends for us to live.
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  Speaker 1: But I want to hear more about your own journey
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  Speaker 1: to realizing that this was something you wanted to really
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  Speaker 1: dig in on to make your home a sacred place.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah. I love that question.
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  Speaker 2: I actually have my own motto besides that my home
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  Speaker 2: is a school for the service of the Lord. I
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  Speaker 2: also have a motto from an Elizabeth Barrett Browning poem
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  Speaker 2: that earth's crammed with heaven, every common bush of fire
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  Speaker 2: with God, but only he.
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  Speaker 3: Who sees takes off his shoes.
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  Speaker 2: And so of course I wanted my home to be
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: tidy and I wanted to have meals on the table
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  Speaker 2: at mealtimes, but I also wanted to create an atmosphere where,
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: where my children would encounter God, where they would be
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  Speaker 2: moved by the spirit of God. And where, when they
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  Speaker 2: left my home someday, they would have had experiences that
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  Speaker 2: would help them, even if they were in a hard time,
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  Speaker 2: even if they were among people who had walked away
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  Speaker 2: from the Lord, that they would be able to say, Oh, I,
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  Speaker 2: you know, I know that God is real because I've
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  Speaker 2: experienced him in my home. I know that, that he
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  Speaker 2: is true. And so we did this through our homeschool
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  Speaker 2: morning time. I homeschooled for 29 years. And so in
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  Speaker 2: our homeschool morning time, we would read stories together and
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  Speaker 2: sing and journal and pray. We did this through every
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  Speaker 2: other subject because I was homeschooling. I had the freedom
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  Speaker 2: to read beautiful stories to my children and talk about them.
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  Speaker 3: We read poetry. We looked at art.
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  Speaker 2: And in every subject in our lives, every activity we
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  Speaker 2: engaged in, My focus was on teaching my children about
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  Speaker 2: the Lord. And this meant that sometimes things were a
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  Speaker 2: little messy. You know, there's a proverb that says where
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: there's no ox and the stable is clean. And, you know,
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  Speaker 2: raising a big family does mean there's going to be
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  Speaker 2: a lot of stuff like where.
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  Speaker 3: I, I'm an essentialist.
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  Speaker 2: And so I try not to buy things I don't
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  Speaker 2: need or have more than we need. But when you
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: have seven children or eight children, it means there's a
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  Speaker 2: lot of shoes, even if only everyone only.
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  Speaker 3: Has a couple of pairs. It's a lot of shoes.
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  Speaker 3: It's a lot of, you know, coats in the closet.
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  Speaker 2: It's a lot of stuff to manage, but I really
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  Speaker 2: wanted mostly to manage the atmosphere.
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  Speaker 3: And, and this is.
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  Speaker 2: Something that I grew into because in my early, early
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: days as a mom, I had the same ideals, but
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: I thought I could just be a perfect mom and
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: sort of wrestle my way into that. And, you know,
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: as my children grew and as I encountered some of
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: the problems that they had, whether it was learning disabilities
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: or a stint with an eating disorder is one of them,
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: or the differences between boys and girls. That in itself
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  Speaker 2: can really throw us for a loop, different personalities. And
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  Speaker 2: so the more I came upon my own inadequacies, my
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  Speaker 2: own frailties, the more I clung to the Lord. I
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  Speaker 2: wrote about that in my first book, Mothering by the Book,
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  Speaker 2: just all the fears of not being able to be
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  Speaker 2: a perfect mom and not having enough for my kids
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  Speaker 2: and not being able to manage I was able to
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  Speaker 2: process those fears with the Lord and through some inner
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  Speaker 2: healing steps, through some better connection habits, really created a
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  Speaker 2: lot of repair, even where sometimes my ideals had created
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  Speaker 2: relationship breakdowns because fear never creates connection. And connection is
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  Speaker 2: one of the most important things for our children's responsibility
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  Speaker 2: and maturity.
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  Speaker 1: You have a line that you said in there that
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  Speaker 1: I just, I had to jot it down. And I
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  Speaker 1: wanted to come back to where you said that you
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  Speaker 1: had to learn how to manage the atmosphere. And what
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  Speaker 1: I love about that is that pulls us out of
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  Speaker 1: the conversation about dealing with all this stuff. And the
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  Speaker 1: stuff is real. And you're so right. I mean, with
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  Speaker 1: the number of kids I have, the number you have,
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: even when I have had seasons of really trying to
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  Speaker 1: thin things down, there's still just so much stuff that's
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  Speaker 1: required for a certain number of people. But I wasn't
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  Speaker 1: thinking about it through the lens of managing the atmosphere
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  Speaker 1: all the time. And as the kids got a little older,
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  Speaker 1: I think I started to do a little bit better
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  Speaker 1: job of this. But I still think I had it
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  Speaker 1: kind of confused, Jennifer. I think I still was thinking, well,
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  Speaker 1: if I can make sure that things look good, smell good,
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  Speaker 1: feel good, the soft jazz is in the background, whatever,
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  Speaker 1: that's going to create atmosphere. And I was still thinking
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  Speaker 1: about externals to some degree. And I think externals are important.
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  Speaker 1: But I often in doing that would be so spooled
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  Speaker 1: up with the stress of trying to get dinner on
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  Speaker 1: the table or if it was a special holiday or
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: whatever that I sometimes missed the memo where what was
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  Speaker 1: happening inside my own heart and in my own outlook
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  Speaker 1: was probably the most important part of creating the atmosphere.
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  Speaker 1: And I think there are such fears. At least there
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  Speaker 1: were for me. I already felt a little bit judged
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: because of the number of children. People always had a
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: ton of questions. And Jennifer, I bet you've gotten to
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: field a lot of those as well. And then I
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: had people who were truly fascinated to come see what
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: it looked like over here with this many people living
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: in your average suburban house. And, you know, it often
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  Speaker 1: was a mess or it wasn't as tidy or it
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  Speaker 1: wasn't this or it wasn't that. And I would sometimes
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: really beat myself up for that. And yet sometimes, Jennifer,
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  Speaker 1: we would have people who would say, it just feels
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  Speaker 1: so cozy and homey. And believe me, there were seasons
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  Speaker 1: that that had nothing to do with how it was
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: decorated or what the level of hygiene was. And so
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: this lens of looking at it as managing the atmosphere,
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  Speaker 1: I just love that. How would you break that down? Oh,
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: let's just make it real scientific and mathematical. How much
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: of that is an inner job that you discovered you
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: had to do in your own heart? And how much
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: of it do you think has to do with the
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: things that we do surround ourselves with. Environments do matter.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: What's on the walls? What's on the bookshelves? What's playing
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: on the playlist? Those things matter. So how do you
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: view that in terms of this management of the atmosphere?
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's such a good question.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: I love that you mentioned some of the weird things
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: people would say to us with big families. We were
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: missionaries in Mexico. And every time we crossed the border,
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: they'd ask us, don't you have a television?
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  Speaker 1: Yes, that is the top.
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  Speaker 3: Okay.
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  Speaker 1: We have to pause and we're going to get back
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  Speaker 1: to the question, but listener, you need to know. I almost,
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  Speaker 1: particularly when I was doing a lot of public speaking, Jennifer,
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  Speaker 1: I'm telling you, I almost had a t-shirt printed that said, yes,
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: we have a television and yes, we have cable because
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: those were the top questions. Don't you have a television?
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: Don't you have cable? I don't know why that would
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: equate to people with a number in the family, but yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Okay.
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  Speaker 3: We see each other.
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  Speaker 1: We absolutely see each other.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, we didn't have a television. We were having
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: lots of fun making our babies too. So there, but.
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  Speaker 2: I would say 75% of the atmosphere is us because,
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: you know, when we as mothers are anxious or disappointed,
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  Speaker 2: even if we're working really hard to make a beautiful atmosphere,
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: our children feel us, you know, they're so, we're so connected.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: We live in the same home. They're so attuned to us.
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: And so when we are disappointed, They can feel that.
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: And that was what I wrote about so much in
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: Mothering by the Book is just when I was disappointed,
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: it wasn't that I was disappointed in my kids. I
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: was just worried that I wasn't doing well enough or
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: that my husband wasn't doing well enough or I was
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: disappointed and worried about not being a good enough mother.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: But the problem is for children, that translates to them
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: as I am a disappointment. And I think one of
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: the most powerful things that I've done as a mother,
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: especially with like, my oldest is 32 years old, so
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: they're not babies anymore. I have forgiven myself because when, oh, Julie,
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: when we have parented children into adulthood, there are so
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: many regrets. Like I wish I could rewind. Like there
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: was a season where I was just too busy. We
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: had an acreage. I had too much work on my plate.
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  Speaker 2: And I spent a lot of time running around telling
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: people what to do and not really connecting with my children.
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  Speaker 2: And some of them have had a few bumpy moments
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  Speaker 2: in adulthood that I think would not have been so
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: intense if I'd been more attuned to them in those
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: adolescent years, if I'd looked them in the eyes more,
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: if I'd given them more hugs, if I'd been more present,
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  Speaker 2: but I was so busy trying to manage all the work.
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: But the beautiful thing in the kingdom is that it
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: is never too late to repair. And so if you're
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: a mom listening and you're like, I actually... That resonates.
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  Speaker 2: I did so much managing of the atmosphere in terms
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: of how it looked that I really overlooked my children's hearts.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: And now we're struggling through a season. This is what
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: I would do. I would accept the Lord's forgiveness. He
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: has forgiven us as far as the East is from
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: the West, so far as he removed our transgressions from us.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: And so if we can give that back to God
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: and say, God, thank you for forgiving me of all
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: of my sins because of your forgiveness. I choose to
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: forgive myself. I forgive myself for not being more present.
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: I forgive myself for not being more attuned. Because when
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: we receive the identity of Christ, what happens then when
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: we receive his forgiveness, we're clothed and covered with the blood,
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: then our children can come to us and say, I
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: feel like you weren't very present with me during this season.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: And instead of being defensive and shutting them down and
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: further pushing that child away, we can say, oh man,
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: I am so sad about that. wish I could have
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: been more present with you in that season. You were
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: such a delightful young girl or boy. And I wish
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: I could have stopped and looked you in the eyes
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: and seen what you were doing and enjoyed you. And
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: it's never too late to repair. In my family, we
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: are ages 32 to 17. All of our children love
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: the Lord. All of our children are in relationship with us,
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: like really good relationships. And I think that it's in
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: large part because we've been willing to have our kids
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: come to us and say, this hurt me. And we
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: don't get defensive. We don't say, well, I was doing
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: my best. And you don't even know how hard it
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: was to parent you.
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: You know what I mean? Like we don't defend ourselves.
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: We just acknowledge the pain that we cause, tell them
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: how much we love them and how sorry we are
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: because I'm not, my identity is not in my motherhood.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: If all of my children stop loving Jesus, I would cry.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: But my identity is not in my motherhood. My identity
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: is that I am a daughter of the King. And
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: so I can welcome my children's pain. I can bear
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: one another's burdens. I can grieve with those who grieve
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: or mourn with those who mourn because I'm completely covered
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: with the blood of Jesus.
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: I have a new identity.
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: Here at the Almondos Podcast, I am so thankful for
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: our sponsor, George Fox University. They are so faithful to
• 15:26
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  Speaker 1: is your student's next move. That is such a sacred
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  Speaker 1: thing to recognize. And as I look at the landscape
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: right now, We have listeners who are in stages of
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: parenting where now that they are in their momming, they're
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: looking at perhaps their mom and going, whoa, what was
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: wrong with that gal? Instead of it being a moment
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: where maybe they think, oh, there are things I'm getting now,
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: they look at it through a more critical lens and
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: sometimes a deserved critical lens. I think we also have
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: people who are potentially listening who are finding that they
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: are in a lot of strife with a child who
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: is entering adulthood. That child is saying, why did you
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: do this? Why did you do that? And that child
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: doesn't completely understand the landscape of what a parent might
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: have gone through or the decisions that were needing to
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: be made real time. And in all of it, what
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: grieves me and what I hope we're able to come
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: into eventually is rather than cutting people off, rather than
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: ending conversations, that we do a better job in the
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: true reconciliation looks like and the part everyone has to
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: play in that. Because the reality is for the mom
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: who's listening, who's holding her little newborn and thinking, I
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: will never do X, Y, Z to you. You will
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: never leave my house feeling X, Y, Z. I don't
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: want to discourage you, sister, but just listen. Life is long.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: Parenting is a ride. And there are trends and ways
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: other people do things and best advice that you're going
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: to look back on in a few years and go, oh,
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: I would not do it that way again. That is
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: not what was right for that kid. That is baked
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: into the experience. And as much as we want to
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: get it right, as much as we intend for things
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: to be good, there are going to be bumps and
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: challenges and things that, man, it would be nice to
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: have a do over if we could. And so I'm
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: so glad you're bringing this up because that retrospective, I think,
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: is really important. I feel like you and I are
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: in that bridge right now where we are both having
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: the opportunity to onboard adult kids and talk through the
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: mythos that was the family life, while at the same
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: time being able to encourage a young group of people
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: who are saying, maybe I'll just cut my parents off.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: They wouldn't let me do X, Y, Z. They raised
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: me in this kind of church that seemed toxic. There
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: was this, there was that. Hey, I get it. And
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: the feelings and emotions are real. But the other side
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: of healing is with well-intentioned people to reach a place
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: where there can be some level of reconciliation and love.
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: That is sacred. I feel like what you're saying, Jennifer, too,
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: is that in these stages when our kids are still
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: in our homes and we do have a lot more
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: influence than we're going to have once they launch. If
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: we can build in a sacred rhythm of this kind
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: of thing, where we can get good at apologizing to
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: our kids, if we can get good at making sure
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: that they understand that relationship and connection are primary, that
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: feels like a really important sacred skill to have within
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: the home. How do we begin to build that? What
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: are some of the habits we need to even make
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: sure that that gets instilled in their experience?
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so many good questions here, Julie. And one thing
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: I want to say to start is, For you moms
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: who are in that situation where you're judging your parents
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: and just noticing all the mistakes they made, I get it.
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: I was there too.
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: I mentioned some of that in my first book, Mothering
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: by the Book, because I was in the middle of
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: five children. and my parents had a lot of stress
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: in their lives. And so there were complaints that I had.
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: But thankfully, we stayed in relationship with our parents. We
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: were very close throughout the years. And I internally forgave
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: my parents for the ways that they contributed to my issues.
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: But what I realized, because I thought I will do
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: everything perfect. I will be the perfect mom.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: And so I did a lot of things differently than
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: my parents, but I still made mistakes. And no matter,
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: you know, your kids, like if you're starting motherhood and
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: you think I will never make mistakes, you might not
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: make the mistakes your parents made, but your kids are
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: going to make them.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: Your kids are going to perceive that you made mistakes.
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: Like I homeschooled all my kids.
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: I was very present in so many ways, but I still,
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: you know, one of my, one of my daughter's one
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: of her complaints about me was that I was too
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: smothering because I had felt like my mom wasn't attuned
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: enough or whatever. So then I swung the pendulum the
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: other way. And I think this is what can often
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: happen when we're holding on to bitterness towards our parents
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: is we swing the pendulum. And so then we just
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: make different mistakes. And so I think as you're starting out,
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: if you're a mom who's in the beginning, I mean,
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: do your best to forgive your parents because The same
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: judgment that you judge your parents with, your kids will
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: judge you someday. And that's, you know, it's really been
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: sobering for me as my children have moved into the
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: adult years to think, oh, wow, like I am visiting
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: my child's home.
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: They could choose not to invite me to their home.
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: Do you know what I mean?
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: They're adults now. And so how we treat our parents
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: is going to be how our kids treat us someday.
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: So be careful what you're modeling to them. But then
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: those habits, I mean, we, you know, in my restoration
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: home community, we actually focus every month on habits. Some
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: are home care habits, but some are habits of attunement,
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: both attunement to God and each other. Because simple things
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: like looking our kids in the eyes, giving them hugs,
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: saying encouraging words to them. Sometimes we don't recognize some
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: of the relational habits that we're building, especially if we
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: haven't necessarily had good relationships in our lives. And we
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: don't understand how maybe we're not treating our children like people.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: Maybe we're treating them like projects instead of people. But
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: learning some of these habits just for even connecting can
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: create so much more peace in our homes. And then
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: our children are more responsive to us. Like my, you know,
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: my children, like we did morning time for 20, you know,
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: 25 years, we did a homeschool morning time where my
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: children had to sit and listen to me read.
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: And they, they obeyed me. They did that.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: You know, I think a lot of families can't even
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: get their kids to do the most simple things because
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: But part of that was that we loved each other.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: They knew I loved them. And we built relationship. And
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: so then even as adults, there's loving acts going back
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: and forth between me and my kids because of that connection.
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: And so I think that what you sow in love
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: and attention and attunement will come back to you as
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: your children grow. And I'm not saying that we can
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: parent with expectations. I think we have to give all
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: those expectations to God, but what we do matters.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: Right. I love that you have this focus on attunement
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: and connection because I think like a lot of moms,
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: my thought was I am going to perform as the
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: most perfect mom I can be, whatever that was in
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: my category. And as per my personality, I will do, do, do, do,
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: do for you to the point that I may ignore you,
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: which sounds ridiculous, but it's so true. And I would
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: get so involved in trying to get the just right
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: this thing or formulate the whatever thing over here that
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: there were times that I certainly was not connecting with
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: the kids just in a daily way that probably would
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: have been most beneficial because I was trying to do
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: for them. So separating out the difference between all the
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: things we do for our kids, the things we may
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: want to do for our kids, the things we aspire
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: to do for our kids, And making sure that what
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: stands alone are these moments of attunement and connection, I
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: think is so beautiful that you point that out. And
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: to your point about how wild it is to be
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: coming around the curve and be seeing things that circle back,
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: I recently had a really funny conversation with one of
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: my daughters because they're beginning to make some educational choices
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: for their kids. And she pointed out, we homeschooled as well,
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: and she said, well, I definitely want them to have
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: this kind of school experience because I felt like I
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: didn't get X, Y, Z in homeschooling. And the irony, Jennifer,
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: was the very thing she was mentioning were the very
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: reasons that I homeschooled her because I felt like my
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: more traditional public school education that I got led to
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: the very same thing that she's now trying to correct
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: by putting her kids in public education that I was
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: trying to correct through homeschool. I'm just saying, mom, if
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: you're listening out there, I'm telling you. When we react 180,
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: it can be so funny when we're like, I'm going
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: to do it so different. And we go 180. It
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: weirdly seems to loop back on itself. I don't know
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: exactly how to describe the science, but it does seem
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: to be there. It's wild.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: And you can certainly see that in culture, you know,
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: that there was the, I mean, sort of like the
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: free love and no boundaries, no standards in the 70s.
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: And then you have like the 80s where it's really
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: strict parenting. And then you have, you know, what's happening.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: I think there's, I think everybody's swinging, you know, because
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: there's been a lot of movement towards, you know, very
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: gentle parenting without any kind of parental leadership at all.
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: And then there's the families who are like, oh, I
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: don't want to do that. And they're swinging into super
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: strict and almost like baby.
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: Wise type parenting again.
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: And so I think it does, you know, if we
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: can find more of that balance, though, where we're not
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: over here being so strict and disrespectful in a way
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: of the of the personhood of our children. Or over
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: here where we're just being so laissez-faire and have no leadership,
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: we're going to find a lot more wholeness in our
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: families in that balance. But I think sometimes we have
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: to learn things for ourselves too. And God is so
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: gracious to carry us through the good things that we
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: do and the mistakes we make.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: Well, in creating our homes and being more intentional about
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: managing the atmosphere, recognizing our homes as places of sacred
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: development for our families, How do you handle having people
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: come into your home? Because let's face it, sometimes the
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: things that we are very intentional about, we're going to
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: run things this way, it's going to be that way. Well,
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: when we are open and hospitable and we do live
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: in a culture that doesn't always respect someone's home the
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: way some other cultures do. And here's the thing. I'm
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: one of those people. I want you to come in,
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: be relaxed, whatever, open the drawers. I don't care. I
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: don't have great boundaries. But I'm not as concerned about
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: some of those things, but what I will tell you
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: is that I watched way too much Chef's Table. And
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: so my version of hospitality would often turn into come in,
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: use whatever you want, do all the things you ever want. Also,
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: I want it to feel like a five-star Michelin experience
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: when you come over for dinner. So I was trying
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: to hold, it's not even attention at that point, Jennifer,
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: it is just absolute opposite ends of the spectrum. So
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: how did you balance when it came to the number
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: of kids, Wanting to be hospitable, but at the same
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: time wanting to maintain a sacredness in your home. How
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: did you do all that? What was the texture of that?
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's another wonderful question, Julie. And we were missionaries
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: in Mexico for nearly four years. That's part of what
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: I write about in my first book, Mothering by the Book.
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: And one of the things that we.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: Were doing while we were there was hosting family mission trips.
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: Because as a homeschool family, we didn't really want to
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: send our kids off by themselves. And we knew a
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: lot of families who had the same ideas. And so
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: we were hosting families who wanted to experience foreign missions
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: and we would let them stay in our house with us.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: And so this was I had six young children at
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: the time.
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: I did not.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: We lived off grid. We didn't have running water or power.
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: So no dishwasher, no easy to access electricity. We had
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: like a generator and some solar or something. And so
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: it broke down any kind of, you know, before that,
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: maybe I would have been more performance oriented with hospitality,
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: but having people come stay in my home with my
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: six children, you know, and it wasn't a giant home.
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: It was like 2000 square feet.
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: And we'd host a few families at a time and,
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: and we'd all be sharing one bedroom and.
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: Cooking and cleaning together.
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: That totally broke that performance aspect of hospitality and made
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: it really easy for me to just, you know, put
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: out simple food on paper plates. And sometimes I envy
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: people who, you know, there's a few Instagram accounts I
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: follow where they put on these beautiful dinners. And sometimes
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: I think, I wish I was more like that. You know,
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: I had a birthday party for a friend the other day. And,
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: and one of our mutual friends came over and, and
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: she's like, you can't use paper plates for this.
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: You know, so I had to put out flowers and
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: glass plates and everything.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: But You know, I think that it definitely broke me
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: of any kind of performance hospitality. And I think there
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: is something so special about doing a nice dinner, doing
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: a great book club, making things special. But also there's
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: something special about just gathering on the porch with food
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: on a paper plate and sitting and being together. And
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: so I think it's important. You know, one of the
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: things that I've done actually to really help define what's
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: important to me in those being goals is I wrote
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: my eulogy. And this was inspired partly by a Donald
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: Miller book.
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: I don't even remember the name of the book. But,
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: you know, just.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: Thinking about actually what do I want people to say
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: at my funeral? You know, what do I want to
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: be known for at the end of my life? And
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: there have been a lot of books that have inspired this.
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: There's a book called First We Have Coffee. that's about
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: a missionary wife on the Plains of Canada and just,
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: you know, the way she showed hospitality with so little.
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: The book Labrie about the Schaeffers, Francis and Edith Schaeffer.
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: Some of these stories where you see these people who
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: showed hospitality despite some poverty really inspired me to just
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: be a welcoming, warm place. And there's a lot of
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: restoration for people that happens in families. You know, this
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: is one of our, our ideals in the restoration home
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: community is that what we're doing isn't just restoring families.
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: It's also restoring culture because so many people are alone.
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: They don't have extended family relationships. They don't know, they
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: don't see people interacting with children. And so having people
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: in and just showing hospitality and just being yourselves with them,
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: like we've had people over and still done our family
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: nighttime devotions with them or, or, you know, had people
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: over and still kept up our normal routines. And I
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: think that that's very encouraging and it, and it, it
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: speaks volumes to people who just have no experience of
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: a healthy family life.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: Right. I love that. That is so beautiful. Well, Jennifer,
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: I'm so excited for you. You obviously have other books
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: out there as well, but you've got a new one
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: out for us called Habits for a Sacred Home. Where
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: can the listener go to find all your great books,
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: your community, all the resources that you have?
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's, I appreciate that, Julie. Thanks for the opportunity
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: to share. And my newest book is actually called The
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: Inspired Homeschool. And so there's almost like a trilogy where
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: mothering by the book helps you overcome some of those
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: parenting fears. Habits for a Sacred Home helps you establish
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: some home rhythms. And then The Inspired Homeschool is for
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: those moms who want to take that a step further
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: and give their children a really inspired education. But if
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: you go to thepeacefulpress.com, that's my homeschool curriculum business. You
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: can find Habits for a Sacred Home there, Mothering by
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: the Book.
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: The Restoration Home Community is linked there.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: That's our community where we help moms every month develop
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: those better habits. And my podcast, Restoration Home Podcast. So
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: it's all linked there at thepeacefulpress.com. Awesome.
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: Well, Jennifer, thank you so much for your time. This
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: has been such an insightful conversation and you have certainly
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: encouraged me To take a different look at how I
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: manage the atmosphere in my home. I know this is
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: a conversation I'm going to be carrying with me for
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: quite a while. Thank you so much.
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: Thanks for having me, Julie.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. All right, friend, you know the mission. Go find
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: those show notes because that's where all the links are. Hey,
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: do me a solid, please. If you're not subscribed, go
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: ahead and subscribe. That really helps us and helps get
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: the podcast out to more people. And grab a link
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: from this episode and send it to someone who you
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: know is just trying to juggle all the different ways
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: that we look at how we want our homes to
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: be today. And yet, you know, you don't want to
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: miss the most important parts. I don't want to miss
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: the most important parts. how to make sure that our
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: experience in our homes creates a sacred space for our
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: kids to encounter Jesus. So send that link out. That's
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: one of the greatest thank yous you can give us.
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: And please, oh, please go to allmomdoes.com, allmomdoes on the socials.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: And I love it when you come see me on Instagram,
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: because I do take all of your questions and comments
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: and suggestions for real. I actually want to know what
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: you think, who you want to hear from. That's how
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: we build the show for you each and every week.
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: And I will talk to you next time on the
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: All Mom Does podcast.
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: Thank you.