Latest / The Joe Rogan Experience / #2521 - Aravind Srinivas

Transcript

#2521 - Aravind Srinivas · The Joe Rogan Experience

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Joe Roman podcast.
• 0:03
  Speaker 2: Check it out The Joe Rogan Experience showIn My Day,
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: Joe Rogan Podcast, by Night, All Day.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Good see it you too, Thanks for having.
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: Me my pleasure.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: How many podcasts have you done?
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know the count, but maybe tens.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: Well, when we were talking, we were talking in the lobby,
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: I was like, this, dude, would be a good guess
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: because we were talking about ancient Hindu scriptures where you
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: were talking to me about something that sounds like a
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: nuclear bomb.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I was like, oh, the Bramstra. I need
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: to know more about it. Yes, yeah, So the Brahmstra
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: is part of the Mahabarat.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: I mean you've talked about Mahabarat and Vermanas and.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, So the Mahabarat is one of the two
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Hindu epics. The other one is Mayan. But Mabart's more interesting,
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: it's more complicated. It's like a lot of different stories
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: interleaved together. And the Brahmstra is the equivalent of the
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: hydrogen bomb.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: And how is it described.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: It's described as a weapon of like mass destruction. You're
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: going to annihilate like human population. Should not be used
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: at any cost, there's like a moral contract, like you
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: clearly have to be like, you know, violating so many
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: things at a deeply moral level to even like wield it.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: And it's not actually it's not actually accessible to most warriors.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: There's probably like two warriors in the world in that
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: era who were allowed to use it. And and it
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: has to be passed through special access, like a teacher
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: has to like pass it on to you the secret
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: to use it almost like a new You think about
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: it as like the equivalent of the nuclear code, right,
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: and Argina had it. This this this particular character in
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: mahabarticlled Argina he was allowed to use it, and then
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: this other person was this Basically, Argina had a t
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: named Rona, and Rona had a son named Ashwatama, and
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: Ashwatama was always jealous of Argina. Argina was not Drona's son,
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: but he was his model disciple, and so Dorona passed
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: on the secret of the Bramastra to him, and Dronah's
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: son also wanted it, but because it was his son,
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: he also passed on the secret to the son, even
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: though the son wasn't as good as Argina. And at
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: that there was during the war, Argina and Rona fought
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: on the opposite sides. It's it's just uh, you know,
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: circumstances and uh and and and his and his dad
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: died Ashwa Thama's dad, the teacher died in the war,
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: and so the son got mad and like unleashed the
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: Bramastra and uh Lord Krishna had to come and save
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: save the planet to not not get that destruction for us.
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: How old is the Maha brought there?
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: Again, it's there's a lot of different opinions on this,
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: so I don't actually know for sure. My understanding is
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: at least a thousand, five hundred to two thousand, five
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: hundred years old, like like thousand, five hundred years ago
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: is the minimum two thousand, five hundred years ago as
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: a maximum. So it happened in some period in that
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: thousand year timeframe between that, and there's still like it's
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: it's still unclear if like a lot of it is
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: just like you know, being mitologized, and what actually happened
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: was just a war between kids. There were two groups
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: of people, the Pandavas and the Cowraa was and you know,
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: each side thought they were fighting for their own rights
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: and justice, but at the end of the day you
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: can crudely understand it. It's like essentially fight for the kingdom. Basically,
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: they were like there was a previous generation and two
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: brothers and they and both the brothers had a bunch
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: of kids, and those kids were warring to get the
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: next in line, and that ended up being like a
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: massive war and a bunch of other allies fought on
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: each sides, and so many amazing weapons were used as
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: part of the war. And a lot of these weapons
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: are like extremely like like describe an extreme level of
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: detail that is pretty incredible, Like the there's a lot
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: of detail around like targeted weapons, so you could precisely
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: identify at target and just shoot at that and.
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: Then ut explain like what the weapon is.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so there's one weapon called a Diviastra where you
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: can just specifically target any any particular person or a
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: group and it would just automatically direct itself and do
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: it almost like a semi autonomous weapon. And then Lord
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: Krishna had this weapon called this Alertion Chakra. It's basically
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: a discuss and then you can just release it and
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: it will go and specifically identify somebody and chop off
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: their head and come back to your right. It subdirects itself.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: So my what I was amazed by is how interesting
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: it is in terms of all the autonomy in the weapons,
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: semi autonomy or autonomy where the weapons could just be
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: directed at people or like directed at you know, a
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: group of soldiers and it to just go and do
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: its job and come back to the wilder. And there
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: were so many different astras di vi astra where an
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: astra and agastra. Ramastra is obviously the ultimate the hydrogen
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: bomby Equilin, and all of these are like described a
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: lot of detail and like who has access to it?
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: And of course it's it's a mythologized so it's described
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: as just like these arrows in your like the back
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: of your shoulders, but you could you could understand it.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: It's like, you know, somebody having just access to a
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: lot of weapons and then whoever was powerful would go
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: capture and colonize and like gain power and essentially a
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: fight between a group of cousins. That that that that's
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: the bottom line of that story.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: Now, if we think of history as this linear progression
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: from caveman and we hear about autonomous weapons, that were
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: written in the Maha Barata somewhere around two thousand plus
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: years ago. We go, well, mythology, but if not, if
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: there's been some sort of rise and fall of civilization,
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: if there has been catastrophic whatever it is, asteroid impacts,
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: shifting of the poles, whatever it is, it's caused great disasters,
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: you can imagine that these people are remembering a time
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: where there was some sort of very advanced civilization, and
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: this is what they're describing. If you knew for a
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: fact that there had been a great advanced, technologically advanced civilization,
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: when we have evidence that they had some technology, like
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: the Pyramids of Giza and stuff like, how did you
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: do that? There's some technology involved, right, Yeah, but we
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: don't have evidence of the technology. But if we did,
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: if we knew for a fact, you would look at
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: the Maha Barat to go, oh, this is history. They're
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: just explaining it in a kind of crude, contemporary way
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: for the time arrows instead of you know, semi autonomous
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: drones with exploding heads on them. I mean, that's what
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: we have now, All those things that they're describing, hydrogen bomb,
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: semi autonomous and autonomous drones, I mean they have they
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: have autonomous fighter jets now, like they don't need people
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: anymore like this where we're in that area right now.
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: So when you read about something like that from the Mahabarata,
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: you go like, okay, what what was really going on?
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: Exactly? Yeah, I mean that's always been my fascination with
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: with with those epics and the level of detail with
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: which they described all these weapons and who had axes,
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: different levels of access, the status required to have axes,
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: and how it was used in the wars, different formations
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: of the soldiers, Like they had all these like crazy
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: formation structures like forming the army like Lotus forming the
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: army like a you know, there's something called the Chuck
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: Review how like a like literally like it has to
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: have concentric circles, so you cannot like actually get into
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: the innermost circle without going through the outer circles, and
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: then you can get killed by each of the flanks
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: whenever you're trying to enter in. And the secret of
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: how to actually break into these view has view house
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: means formations was only known to a few people. And
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: it's it's incredible, like you could say, okay, like somebody
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: had to be extremely skillful to have that sort of
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: like visualizations and imaginations of describing a story like that,
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: And obviously, like Tolkien has done an amazing job a
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: lot of the rings, you know, in creating so much
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: detail at the same time like a lot of it
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: actually coming through in real life in some form. Again
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: not exactly the same weapons, but similar style. Makes you
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: wonder was there actually something around then? And people have
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: tried excavations in all these areas. That's like two main
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: areas in a Mahabarat has Sinapur was the name of
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: the kingdom, and people have done excra around there and
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: have like found some artifacts that might date back to
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: those years. But there are also some details that are
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: describing epics that don't quite align with reality. For example,
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: all the men, all the main warriors in that era
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: were described as like very tall, very big, seven eight
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: feet for whatever you know. I don't even know exact numbers,
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: but his studies by archaeologists also say that people who
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: lived in those years, in those regions were probably not
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: more than six feet tall. So it's not clear exactly
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: like what happened, what was correct, what was not correct,
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: And you know, we just have to keep probing more.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: But I find the idea of fascinating to think of,
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: like what could have existed in sacred texts that was
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: only partially communicated to the next generation and having a
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: lot of like reinterpretations. Another thing that is very interesting
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: think about is Weting Matt so that basically Vedic math
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: is like a branch of mathematics that you know, some
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: people in India are grown up learning like I read
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: it myself too, and some people actually practice it just
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: to be sharper at mental math for doing their exams
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: like g mat and things like that. G are And
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: it has like a line in the Vedas that says, oh,
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: like one from the last digit, two from the first
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: digit whatever. You know, so many different ways of multiplying
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: two different numbers, like ninety seven times ninety six. Oh,
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: like subtract the last two digits, put it in right,
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: multiply the first that just put it in the left.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: That's the result. And then you wonder like, oh wait,
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: the rig Veda is so old is as oldest, is
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: the oldest sacred text out there? How is it describing
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: computation that feels very unreal? Like do they actually know
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: or understand advanced forms of computation even back in those days.
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: And and how old is rig Beda.
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: I don't exactly know how old it is.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: How can we put that in a perplexity? Yeah, let's
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: find out.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, it is technically the oldest sacred text out there.
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: And so what's interesting is I wonder how old the
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: stories were by the time they were written down, Like
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: how much of it is relayed person to person for
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: years and years, just like the Bible before it's ever
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: actually written down. Scholars usually date the composition of Rigveda
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: to about fifteen hundred to twelve hundred BCE, so it's
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: oldest layers of roughly three thousand, two hundred, three thousand
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: and seven hundred years old today. Like I if there
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: really was like every ancient culture has a story of
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: a flood. Everyone they all have an apocalypse.
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: And mom Bart had the same thing, Marbart had the
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: same thing. Where that was a big almost like a
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: tsunami like thing. I don't exactly know what it was called,
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: but that was the collapse of Lord Krishna's kingdom Dwarka.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: After the war. A lot of people died, but some
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: people survived, and even those who survived got wiped out
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: by a calamity or like some kind of like a
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: fight among themselves, and most of the people who participated
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: in that era actually died here.
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: It is the primorial how do you say it, Manu? Yeah,
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: Manu Flood classic can do Great Flood myth where the
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: righteous king Manu is worn by a divine fish about
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: an imminent deluge that will destroy humanity. He builds a boat,
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: loads it with his family. It's like no one in
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: the arc. It's the same thing with seeds and animals
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: ties it to the horn of the god in fish form,
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: which towes the boat to safety until the waters recede
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: and the world is repopulated. They all have the same story. Yeah,
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: that's what's really crazy.
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: There is a there is a concept in Hindu philosophy
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: called the yugas.
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: Hmm, I'm reading a book.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, So, uh, there's like different yugas
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: and you guys are like thousands of years and the
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: concept is that the you guys keep cycling around and
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: so like, uh, we are in the calor yuga right now,
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: and before that was a dwopper yuga. That's when most
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: of the mob are. It happened and before that that
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: was a trade that yoga right there on mine happened,
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: and before that there was another yoga.
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: What is next after Caliyuga?
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: It's no, there is nothing next after it goes back
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: to the first one. I forget the name of the
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: first yuga.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: Because the interpretation that I'm reading is that we're not
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: in Cali Yuga anymore, and that Caliyuga ended in the
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: nineteen hundreds and dwopper yoga started then.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: No, no vr in caluga.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: So why do people have different interpretations? Like is there
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: a Yeah, there's like a guru interpretation. There's like one
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: specific guru I say that has this interpretation that Coli
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: Yuga ended in the nineteen hundreds and that we're moving
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: on interesting. Yeah, but I don't know who's right, because
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: it's it's an enormous cycle, right, the cycles of humanity?
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, thousands of years, yea thousands of years and so yeah,
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: so these are the four yougos.
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: And so why do people have different interpretations? I'll tell
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: you the book I'm reading. Yeah, uh see if this
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: book is discredited, young Jamie, it is. It's by a
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: guy named David Steinowitz. Stein Stein Metz David Steinmetz. The
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: book is called The Yugas.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: Interesting.
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the problem is when someone's got their
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: own interpretation or some gurus interpretation, it doesn't totally line.
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: It's hard to know who's right and who's wrong. Yeah,
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: Keys understanding our hidden past, emerging energy age, and enlightened future. Yeah,
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: So that go back up to that again. So this
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: is in the description, see what it says that where
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: it says in eighteen ninety four, an Indian sage gave
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: Gus an explanation not only for our hidden past, but
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: for the trends of today and for future enlightenment. So
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: there's like one guy's interpretation that this guy is going
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: off of.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: I guess the difference might be that he thinks the
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: yoga cycle is twenty four thousand years. Verus, I think
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: it's probably much longer than that.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, four Yugas together his four million, three hundred and
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: twenty thousand years. You know what's really nutty. Yeah. One
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: of the really nutty things is both in the ancient
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: Sumerian texts and in some of the ancient Egyptian texts,
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: there's depictions for the flood of people who reigned for
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: thousands of years as kings and it's common, it's not,
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: it's and it's also they're referenced multiple times in different
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: scripts that are from different parts of what was sumer
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: at the time. Yeah, it's really weird because they take
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: it as established history once it gets to a certain age,
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: once they get into like whatever the age is where
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: they can verify that this person was the king for
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: a certain period of time. But it's all in the
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: same text as people that reigned for six thousand.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: Years, and then one even just wipes out the whole thing. Yeah,
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: And I mean this is also somewhat like tangentially related
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: to the Fermi paradox, you know, like if you assume
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: all these things are happening on Earth itself, that entire
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: civilizations are getting wiped out, and like we always wonder
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: you've explored this topic the most and warred aliens, and
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: there are different arguments that like, okay, like the reason
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: we haven't quite found that is because the great filter exists.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: And there's like one entertaining theory that I like, just
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: for the sake of entertainment is almost all civilizations end
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: up advancing technologically a lot, and either a calamity wipe
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: them out, or like they build some misalign a GI
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: and an AGI wipe themod and and because of that
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: they never actually like and end up being visible to us.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: Or the other theories that like they're like, we haven't
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: quite built the wine Norman probes to actually go find them,
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: and both of them are plausible, and it's you know,
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: there's there's no clear way to like no, unless we
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: actually like send out enough probes.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: This episode is sponsored by Better Help. We've come a
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: long way with mental health, but there's still work to
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: be done. Better Helps twenty twenty six State of Stigma
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: report surveyed two thousand Americans, revealed that eighty five percent
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: of Americans believe getting support is wise, yet seventy four
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: percent say society discourages people from doing so. One thing
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: that can help is to have more open conversations about
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: mental health struggles and encourage people to seek out help,
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: not judge them. And you know what else helps Better Help.
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: They make connecting with a professional therapist simple and it
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: actually works. Their live sessions have an average rating of
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: four point nine out of five. Don't let stigma stand
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: in the way of support. Start therapy with Better Help
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: sign up and get ten percent off at betterhelp dot
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: com slash jr. That's better h e LP dot com
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: slash jr. There's a bunch of possibilities. I mean, there's
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: almost too many to count. But there's the possibility that
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: they are observing and that they don't want to interfere,
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: and that we are on some sort of evolutionary cycle
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: cycle of cultural evolution, civilization evolution. And one of the
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: things about this the crazy ages that comes from the
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: Sumerian text and from the ancient the hieroglyphs that depict
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: the zep tet How do you say it, zeb tetty? No,
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: how am I saying that? What is that text that
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: ancient Remember we talked about it was Zahi Huas and
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: he denied its existence. Zeb tepi? Is that it? Either way,
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: you're dealing with these kings that reign for thousands and
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: thousands of years. Well, you know, David Sinclair is in
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: the middle of this research now that's they're working on
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: life extension drugs like that are actionable. Yeah, yeah, that's
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: it zeb tepi. Yeah, heard so these But this is
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: what's so weird. If they look at hieroglyphs, they get
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: to a certain point and they're like, oh, Kufu, he
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: was real, this guy was real, All these people were real. Yeah,
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: but then they get back to these guys that reign
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: for thousands of years, they go, oh, that was whch
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: is horseshit? But why is it that all these people
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: have these stories that align with this timeline that's pre flood.
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: It's all like the same story.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: And then if you're talking about these ancient Hindu scriptures
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: that are discussing technology that seems remarkably similar to technology
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: that we have today.
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: The minmonos are flying cars basically.
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: And probably what we're going to have one hundred years
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: from now or whatever it is, or we could have
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: gone that way in the past.
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: It's very entertaining to think of, like, let's say something
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: happens to us, right, I don't want anything happens, but
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: let's say something happens to us, And would people really
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: believe you were like launching reasonable rockets.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: Right, or making FaceTime calls to people in Australia.
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, like even fundamental things like all we were
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: doing today. I think it's all like incredible, Like there's
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: a lot of things that could be just technological ideas,
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: or maybe people actually had it and the knowledge of
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: it was lost and it's not being documented, it's not
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: being passed along and Sylvie are skeptical if they ever
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: had it. Yes, and so we end up reinventing it
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: in different forms again and again and again, and we
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: keep cycling through this process.
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: Well, it also could be that this is the natural
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: progression of human curiosity. The human curiosity and ingenuity always
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: moves into these very particular ways, like what's the best
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: way to defeat my enemies. If we're always going to
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: be territorial primates, we're always going to want to defeat
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: our enemies. We're always going to protect ourselves from being invaded,
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: so we're going to make better and just with technological innovation,
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: it just goes down the same path. Oh we figure
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: out bullets, Oh, we figure out nuclear bombs. Well we
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: figure out well, we don't even have to use an
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: actual plane. We can use an autonomous drone and that
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: delivers it and then scale upwards and onwards and AI
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: and then also life extension. So if these people were
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: able to make the pyramids, like you know, there's a
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: lot of speculation as to the timeline of the Pyramids.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: But let's just say they really built it two thousand
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: and five, and ever see, let's just say back then,
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: what the fuck were they using? Like, what were you use?
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: What did you do? How did you get these stones
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: down from the mountains who were five hundred miles away?
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: How about that one? We were gonna get to that
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: for sure. There's a tough no what's good good as
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: any How about these temples that they find in India
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: that are carved entirely out of one piece of stone?
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: What did you do? How did you do that? How
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: long ago did this happen? How many of them were buried?
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: And then they had to uncover them and then like
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: figure out like what is this? Who made it? There's
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: no timeline, No one really knows. There's no evidence of
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: tools that were capable of doing this kind of work
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: back then. And they're huge and beautiful and perfect, and
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: they have like acoustic properties and the geometry is fucking fantastic.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's nuts. It's not said that all of these
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: temples were actually just built, not just that they were
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: specifically the locations for them are picked out so that
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: you get the right seismic vibrations over there in terms
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: of like proximity to the ocean, the gravitational waves from
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: the sun and the moon. People actually made that level
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: of like.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: Look at this, man, imagine the undertaking of carving that
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: temple out of the side of a fucking giant piece
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: of rock. Yeah, you screw up one thing and it's over.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: There's no simulations, you just have to build it.
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: What did they have? This is the question, Like, imagine
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: today if we had to do this. Look, it's possible,
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: this is a possible endeavor. It can be done. Yeah,
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: but imagine what kind of technology would we have to
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: need to map it out to make sure that was
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: all precise? Did it all lie? I mean it's precise
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: within like millimeters from point to point and everything is
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: done out of one piece of stone. Like, what did
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: they do? Was it chisels? Did you do that with chisels?
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: That's crazy? How many time did you have to sharpen
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: your fucking chisel? That's nuts? Or do you have something
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: completely different? Because some of the more intricate ones, See
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: if you can find these some of the crazy ones
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: inside these temples, there's sculptures that are three dimensional and
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: they're carved like inside of the sculpture, so there's like
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: an outer area and then there's these all these openings
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: and then inside it's highly detailed, Like how'd you even
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: reach in there?
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: It just and hammers and I don't think that's awesome
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: and careful geometric as people trying to do that. They said, like,
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: this is how much work someone could do in like
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: twelve hours with a hammer and they get nowhere, let
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: alone like perfect and looking good.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's nuts, man. And there's a lot of evidence
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: of stuff like that all over the world, which is
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: really weird. You have the stuff in Peru like socks
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: a human when you look at these stones and it
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: looks like they're melted into place and they're nine hundred tons,
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: Like what did you do?
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, how did you even get it up there?
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: How'd you where'd they get it? How'd you get it there?
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: How'd you ligne it? Perfectly built in only eighteen years?
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: How do they know that? How do they know that?
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: Because it's attributed to one king? Yeah, so King Christian
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: the first seven fifty six to seven seventy three CE. Maybe,
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: I mean, how do you know? Though?
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: Archaeologist said it would have calculated it would take them
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: one hundred years to do it.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean this is very like you know,
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: I don't know, different historian accounts are all like muddled up,
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: you know.
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: Uh huh, Well it's a real problem. History is a
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: real problem.
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: But yeah, it goes back to like the thing you
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: were saying, right, you know, what is one thing that's
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: common all these different ages as human curiosity. So I
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: mean that's something that you know, I would love to
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: get your take on this. Like I've been tying with
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: this idea called the curiosity premium, which is the most
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: effective people, the most successful people have always been the
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: most curious people, the ones who have been good at
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: asking the best questions, and they tend to do better
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: in every aspect of their life. And you're a good
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: example of that. So that's why i'd love to get
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: your take on this. And the reason I believe that
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: is because long term, people who continuously ask questions tend
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: to do better. They make more money, they have a
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: higher quality of life, they're happy, they have more compounding relationships.
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: People find them more interesting, and so they compound their
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: relationships over time, and so naturally they end up succeeding,
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: But their spirit of inquiry, their intrinsic curiosity, doesn't actually
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: stop once they succeed it, only they just channelize it
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: even more. And so that's why it keeps compounding. And
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: I would argue that like it's the only quality, it's
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: only like quality that makes us really human, you know,
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: in this world where we can seek a lot of
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: information and get information way faster than ever before, it
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: feels like that's that one universal human quality that's existed
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: since ancient time, since the oldest text. Like in fact,
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: in the Rigway them, you're explicitly encouraged to seek wisdom
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: more than wealth. And it's not just an idea specific
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: to Hinduism. That specific idea exists in the Bible. It
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: exists in the Quran, exists in the Torah. It's not
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: that seeking well is admonished by religious texts. It's actually
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: that it's more important to seek wisdom. And you know,
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: like you can why I said, you're a good example
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: of that. It's like, sure, you have a very very
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: large podcast, but the way you're running it is like
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: you're just curious about a lot of things and asking
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: a lot of questions. And I think that's that one
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: quality that's very important. So and I feel like it's
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: the oldest thing, is the only thing that we've known
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: since ancient time.
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: Being curious, Well, I think it's stimulating to people, and
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: genuine curiosity is stimulating to other people. When when someone
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: is genuinely curious about something, I become curious about it.
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: I think it's contagious and I think that it's it's
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: also an authentic quality, and I think there's there's something
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: about really wanting to know something and being interested in something.
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: And if you're curious, generally you're going to ask more
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: questions about something so you have a deeper understanding of it.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: So if you're trying to do whatever you're trying to do,
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: a sport, a game, you'll probably get better at it
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: because you're more curious because instead of just assuming things,
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: you'll ask more questions, you'll re examine things. It's genuine.
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: It's one of the most important human qualities, and to me,
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: it's one of the most attractive human qualities. It's always been.
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: When I meet curious people, I'm always interested. I'm always like, like,
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: tell me what you're curious about, and I'll tell you
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: what I'm curious about Let's talk it's it's And this
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: podcast started out genuinely because of well a lot of
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: just just talking shit with friends, but it also led
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: into like one of my very first guests, actual guests,
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: was Graham Hancock, and it's just because I was curious
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: because I had read Fingerprints of the Gods, and I'd
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: seen him talk, I'd seen speeches, and I'm like, I
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: want to know, like, what do you know? What do
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: you think is going on? And he's another guy incredibly
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: curious and absolutely fascinated with his his takes on ancient history.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: He has been talking about this subject a long time.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: And when he first when he first wrote Fingerprints of
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: the Gods, I think that came out in like I
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: want to say, he's like ninety seven or ninety eight
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: or something like that, and I remember reading it, and
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: so many of my friends, you know, educated friends, like this, horseshit?
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: Why are you paying attention to this? More and more
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: and more as time goes on, it's been proven that
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: he's correct. The timelines shifted back and from the publication
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: of that book, the discovery of go Beckley Tepe and
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: the surrounding area like it's like, Okay, now we realize, well,
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: there was something crazy shit going on at the very
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: least eleven thousand years ago, so we pushed civilization back
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: five thousand years so like and this is just what
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: we found now, and we keep finding things, keep taking
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: keep looking, and then you see the stuff that they're
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: finding underneath the pyramid with this radio tomography where they're
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: looking under the pyramid, that it seems that there're structures
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: under the we've seen that stuff.
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: I haven't seen that.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: I had. The scientist that's involved in it, he's an
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: Italian guy, Filippo Biondi, and he came on the podcast.
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: Wonderful accent, almost as good as yours. It was amazing.
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: But he's describing the use of this stuff and that
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: they've used it successfully on known areas in pyramids and
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: other structures, and they can. In fact, they there in Italy,
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: there is a particle collider that is underneath the mountain
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: and using this technology, which is satellite based technology, they
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: get an accurate description of this particle collider that's I
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: think it's twelve hundred meters underground. Like how far is
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: that thing underground? We'll find out, but it's like deep understone,
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: and they find that they can get an accurate like
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: and they can actually give you the dimensions of this
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: particle collider. They have like an image of it. And
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: this same technology is showing that there's these columns underneath
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: the pyramid in various places that are twenty meters wide
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: and they have coils around them. They don't know what
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: the hell they are, and they the whole structure of
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: this thing. It's not small. It goes almost a kilometer
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: into the ground. There's like this enormous bottom of it,
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: and it seems like it's something that's constructed. And so
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: they're like, Okay, well, the pyramid is crazy. It's crazy enough,
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: but if there's something underneath that that's a man made
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: or someone made it that's a kilometer deep into the ground,
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: like what the fuck are we even talking about? Like
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: who made this? What? What did they have? One point
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: two kilometers into the mountain? That's nuts. It's a half
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: a fucking mile in it plus into the mountain. And
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: this thing can see through all that and get this
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: accurate depiction of this particle collider. And it's showing with
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: multiple scans, not just one, multiple scans in different technology,
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: the same exact images, the same exact structures underneath this
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: fucking immense two million, three hundred thousand stone structure that
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: almost perfectly aligns to true north, south, east and west. Like,
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: what what was going on? Don't tell me, Polleye, don't
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: tell me copper tools, Like what the fuck was going on?
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: Something crazy? And I have a feeling are simply explanation
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: of it is just doing no one any justice. It's
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: doing no service to history, it's doing no service to
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: our understanding. They've got to be a little bit more
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: open in the fact that they are perplexed and not
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: just perplexed by stuff like this. This is a three
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: D print of an actual vase that exists in Egypt
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: that they found. That is, they found it in tombs
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: of the Old Kingdom. This thing was somehow or other.
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: It's made with diete so it's incredibly hard stone and
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: made to like a thousandth of a human hair, and
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: it's yeah, like crazy dimensions, like the way the precision
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: of it and wasn't turned on a lathe because it
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: has handles. So you look at the handles on the side, Well,
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: you can't carve the and those are perfect too, like
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: the alignment of everything and it's like you just look
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: at it. Oh, it's a vase, no big deal, but no,
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: it's kind of fucking crazy, like how did they cut
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: that out? There's also these there's all these core marks
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: in some of the stones that they find in Egypt,
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: and they've analyzed the amount of revolutions per minute that
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: you would have to go through to be able to
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: cut through something and leave these lines and defies explanation,
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: like what is this? This is crazy. This is not
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: sand and copper and just rubbing things. No, this is
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: some insane technology that we don't understand. There's scoop marks
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: out of the bottoms of some of these stones. It's like,
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: what about what the fuck is this? How'd you scoop rock?
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: Like what? It looks like ice cream? Like they just
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: went roup? Like what are they doing? There's so many questions.
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: What tools did? Did they even have to do all
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: these things?
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: They had copper, I mean, there's there's some evidence that
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: they had sums, iron, and then I think Toots on
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: Common had a dagger that was actually made from meteorite,
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: which is interesting, you know, like when they could find
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: meteorites and make things out of them was very valuable obviously,
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: but the just the sheer volume of work that they
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: did there. It's if like you look at the Temple
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: in Man, you look at all the three major pyramids,
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: you look at all the different temples and all the construction,
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: and the older you go, the deeper into the sand
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: they go, the more complex these things are, which is
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: even weirder. So it seems like civilization after civilization just
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: there would there was probably a rise and fall with
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: their technology as well.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, I think it's it's just incredible that none of
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: this knowledge was properly documented ever, and uh, it's a
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: whole line of work to just go understand like how
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: to even rebuild these things leave alone, how did they
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: build it?
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: Well, think about what we're doing, right, so all of
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: our knowledge is essentially stored on hard drives and paper
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: m those are the two things that are going to
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: deteriorate the quickest.
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: Ian Maybe we should take a dump of the Internet
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: and put it out a rock, go preserve it somewhere
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: so that yeah, even if a civilization is wiped out
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: and all the data centers all gone or whatever, whoever
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: comes next and go figure it out.
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, then you've got to always assume that
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: even if they found a hard drive that they would like,
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: how long would it take for them to back engineer
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: what we did and figure out what these ones and
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: zeros actually mean? Yeah, that is which is one of
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: the most bizarre and fantastic accomplishments of modern civilization. Is
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: it like, this is a terabyte? Which is nuts?
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: I don't know what your first computer had.
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: I don't remember. Definitely, not not even a gigabyte probably.
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: No, like a few hundred megabytes your hard drive. Yeah, yeah,
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: I mean I remember when they first came out with gigabytes.
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: I was like, this is nuts.
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I remember like when Gmail launched and gave everybody
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: like free email storage, unlimited email storage, and the bottom
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: sliding bar would just keep increasing in terms of the
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: total allowed size. Yeah, and that was nuts to me.
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and uh I think, yeah, we take it for
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: granted that we have like infinite RAM and infinite hard disks,
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: and nobody has to worry about like you know, if
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: you back in those days, you would worry about like
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: taking too many photos on your phone, right right, and
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: they have to go delete all the old ones, have
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: bad ones?
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you'd run out of storage on your phone.
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and then you'd have to buy like an external
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: hard drive to keep storing things. Yeah, you keep transpraising
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: stuff from your phone to the hard disk.
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: I remember the old Android phones. You get an SD card. Yeah,
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: you can slip one of those in there, and you
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: can store images on that. Yeah, you could save space. Yeah,
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: and all that stuff is so vulnerable. It's so vulnerable.
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: And again, if a completely alien society had to come
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: down and find our hard drives and they went a
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: totally different path of technology, they'd have to back engineer,
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: reverse engineer everything that we did, try to figure out
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: you know what, what what are we using? What operating system?
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: How does the operating system work? Is it Unix? Is
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: it Linux?
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: It?
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: Like, what is it? How do they do it? It
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: would be a nightmare.
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: They would need an advanced day. I have to like
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: figure it all out for them, right yeah.
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And so that's just if the hard drives survive. Right, So,
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: if there's some massive flood, cataclysm, whatever, some some horrific
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: thing that damages all of our electronics, which is totally possible,
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: you know, just some solar flare, some intense.
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: Just another lab leak, right, yeah.
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: Just time, a lab leak and time.
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's nuts and it we could go back to
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: zero real quick, and we would basically be like preppers.
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: And hard to reverse engineer everything again.
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: It would be almost impossible. Which is why I'm really
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: fascinated by the flood the post flood timeline, because if
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: these people like Graham Hancock and a lot of these
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: other folks that have speculated that there was probably a
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: very advanced civilization that went in a completely different direction
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: many times sins of years ago. If you look at
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: the emergence of like sumer and you know, Mesopotamia in
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: that area, which a lot of people attribute to me
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: the earliest known civilization, that's around five thousand plus six
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: thousand years ago, right roughly. So the flood's like eleven
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: thousand years ago plus, So you're looking at like five
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: thousand years of.
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: What it's not even that long in the grand scheme of.
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: Things, No, not to the earth, but for people, yeah,
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: pretty fucking long exactly. Like, think of how long it
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: took us to get our shit together. It took thousands
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: and thousands and thousands of years of people probably being monsters,
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: just being the worst of the worst and that's probably
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: the only way they survived. There's probably a lot of cannibalism,
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of murder. There's a lot of like
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: horrific shit going on for five thousand years until people
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: slowly but surely figured out agriculture again, started building walls,
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: everybody relaxed a little, got some solid weapons to keep
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: people so you could work on math. And then next thing,
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: you know, civilization emerges again and it goes right, you know,
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: goes right back onto the cycle. And then you start
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: reading in the rig Veda about stuff that happened thousands
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: of years you go, what the fuck is this? Like
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: what happened? Yeah, And that's my belief. I think there
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: was something going on on Earth many many, many thousands
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: of years before established beginnings of history that was very
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: bizarre and probably technology that went in a completely different
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: direction than what we're doing now with combustion engines and
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: circuits and all the different things that we use. They
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: probably figured out some other kind of technology exactly, which
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: is totally possible.
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: And it's amazing, Like it's amazing to think of, like
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: what if we could rediscover all of that again?
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: Yes, well, I would love to be able to. I
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: would love to just have a if I could choose
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: one window in time to go back to see what
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: it would look like. I would one hundred percent pick
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: ancient Egypt while they're building the pyramids. Show me what
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: the fuck what's going on? If there's just just put
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: me in a big hamster wheel, there's a big plastic
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: bubble where no one could see me. Just let me
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: violate space and time and exist there for just a
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: few minutes. Just let me look. I think that would
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: be the most insane thing that you could see about
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: humans and humans history. Yeah, I just I want to
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: know what they knew, what they had, what they used.
• 41:27
  Speaker 3: In listing Petra's same time period at least attributed to
• 41:31
  Speaker 3: seven thousand roughly BC, Jesus and they, you know, how
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: would you write?
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: How the details of all those carvings? Is this insane?
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: Insane?
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: And what in seven thousand BC? What are the tools?
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: What the hell were you used? How did you make
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: a temple out of the side of a fucking mountain?
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: Look at the size of it, man, the size of
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: those columns.
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: It would be hard to do anything like those even today.
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: It would be incredibly difficult insanely time consuming.
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, the Caliosa Temple, by the way, I I
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: don't have it up right now, but there's sixteen fifty
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: or so. Someone send a thousand people to try to
• 42:14
  Speaker 3: destroy it, and after three years of doing nothing, they stopped.
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: They barely made it den on a couple of statues.
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of times when invasions happened in India, like.
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: They tried really hard to fuck it up and couldn't.
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: Oh that's crazy, that's very robust. That's a great way
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: to describe it. It's just there's so much of that
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: stuff that's so interesting because it's so undeniable. It's so
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: undeniable in its scale, so undeniable and its complexity and
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: the planning and the understanding that you had to have
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: a deep knowledge of geometry, of measurement of you had
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: to have.
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: Yes, yeh, every thing sturdiness like resist like calamities.
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: What tools are you using?
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: Like, how are you doing this?
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: How are you coordinating all these people right getting them
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: to do stuff? And I mean sure, my conditions must
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: have been very harsher like. I'm sure people didn't really
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: have a choice but to do these things because back
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: in those days, like the only way you could take
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: care of your food and clothing and shelter is like
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: you commit yourself as a laborer to the state, to
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: the kingdom. But you could also ask like what gave
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: them the initiative or drive to go do these things?
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well that description is perhaps of a later time.
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: We don't even really know what civilization was like when
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: these were constructed. Yeah, the real problem is the material science.
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: The real problem is, like you, there's a lot of
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: things that you have to have to make those things.
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: It's not as simple as a sculpture like Michaelangelo making
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: a sculpture out of something that's like fair really easy
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: to carve into stars as far as stone goes. Now,
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: this is the scale. Is it's so undeniable that like something, something,
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: some piece of our understanding is missing.
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean it it like looking at all
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: this like everyone should just be like a lot more humble, right,
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: like like yeah, we don't actually know that much like that,
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: what we know is like so little, like whatever, Like
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: the same thing as what Soccerate has said, what we
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: know is very very little, and the only thing we
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: should all strive to be is just be curious and
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of tendency for people to
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: like think like, oh, like we have all this advanced technology,
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: we're so amazing, like look at us, and it's like wait,
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: hold on, like you don't even understand what happened thousands
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: of years ago, and there's so much out there to
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: just go and explore and learn and like get better
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: and understanding more.
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: What is this place?
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: This is? Yeah, this is unreal.
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: This is called the Ellora Caves, Timeless Wonder carved in stone.
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: They're I think it's all the kind of the same area.
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's the same Laura Cave and the Shiva
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: Temple yourself.
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: Look at that, My god, look at this stuff. It's insane.
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: And again there's no steel back then.
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: It's actually really symmetrical. It's it's not even like, uh,
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: can you go back to the first one with the
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: symmetrical top. Yeah, look at the symmetry at the top.
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: That's nuts.
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: It looks like that mall and uh New.
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: York they made where the World Yeah, but way more robust.
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: I mean, how what what did what were you they use?
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: This is the thing. It's like the material science aspect
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: of it. It's like you don't have the ability to do.
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: Look at that top one. Go to that top one again,
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: the one that you just had, Jamie, Yeah, that one.
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: Look at that's crazy, man. I mean I am just
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: blown away. When I see stuff like that, My mind
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: just starts racing and I just think, how did you
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: do this? Who? Who was involved? How is it planned?
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: How is it so symmetrical? What were the tools? Like?
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: What were the tools?
• 46:17
  Speaker 3: Man?
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: If you don't have steel, you don't have what are
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: you using? How'd you do that?
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: I mean most of it is done with stone, clearly, right.
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: I guess, I guess I doubt it. I bet they
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: had something else. I bet they had something else that
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: over time eroded, just like metalwood today. I mean, if
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: you left a shovel outside today and you came back
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: to that same spot five hundred years from now, there's
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: nothing that shovel's gone, right, And you've got to assume
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: that these many thousand year old temples that were carved
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: out of a fucking mountain, whatever tools they used, probably
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: got absorbed by the earth and the only thing that's remaining.
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: Giving me a word thought like when they make a
• 47:01
  Speaker 3: big building downtown, though they only bring the crane in
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: for a temporary period of time, and there's only so
• 47:05
  Speaker 3: many cranes on the planet currently too, So right, true,
• 47:09
  Speaker 3: you take it, you move it, you go take it
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: to the next spot.
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: Yep, yeah true. I don't know, Yeah, especially something like this,
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: like if they had heavy equipment and machinery and whatever
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: the fuck they were using, they probably moved it and
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: then moved it out and then it probably rotted away
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: and now it's gone. If there was machinery. If there wasn't,
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: like there must have been something else, some other kind
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: of like some technology that we haven't even imagined. Yeah,
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: but it's like there. Their commitment to art, too, was
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: so fascinating because these aren't just structures.
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: They're in fashion projects.
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, intensely beautiful, intensely ornate. Yeah. So it's not it's
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: not just that they wanted to build like a functional
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: structure that good architecture. No, it's it's a fascinating art
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: work and it's so intricate. There's so many different features
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: and so many different images of different people and beings
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: and animals and elephants.
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: And there's one more temple like you could pull out,
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: like it's called a tango temple.
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: Oh I've seen that one too. Yeah.
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was done more recently in the age of
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: the Cholas, and it's it's pretty incredible.
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: When did they do that one.
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: I don't know the exact number, but more recent than
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: the other ones that you saw.
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: All of them are nuts, man, and then there's stuff
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: like that all over the world.
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: Whoa, this was done as a as a project by
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: the king to basically make a name for himself.
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: Wow, that's incredible. Is that multiple pieces of stone or
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: did he carve that whole thing on a stone too?
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: Probably multiple pieces, So that's actually like construction, yeah, not
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: like removal the other ones are. It's essentially a giant sculpture. Wow,
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: it's so pretty, Like how geometric it is.
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what amazes me, Like they didn't actually have
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: all these simulations and cat tools and all these things, right, and.
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: What year was this made? Jamie did say, it's just
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: so incredible how much of this stuff exists where it's
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: really baffling, Like I just found out recently that the
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: Aztecs didn't build those temples that they found them. Really Yeah,
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: they found like the to know Chiit Lawn. They call
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: it the place where the gods were born, the Aztecs
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: found it and uncovered it, and then on the when
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: is it to know, chit lawn or Teotcon, whichever one
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: it was, on the consecration day when they were done
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: with like whatever they were doing with it to celebrate,
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: they killed somewhere between twenty thousand and eighty thousand people
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: in four day.
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: Damn.
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: Not exactly the mindset of the type of people that
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: would construct something like that, you know. So those are
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: the people that found it, and it might have been
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: sitting there for a thousand years and then they came
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: along and they said, oh this is cool, let's live here. Okay, Well,
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: what was the society that lived there before them? And
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: where are they and what happened and how they do
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: this and why did they do it? And why did
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: they have it aligned with the constellations? Like what were
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: they doing?
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's some of the calculations are pretty pretty amazing,
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: like how they timed it, how they positioned it, how
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: they cared about planetary positions and stuff like that. Surely
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: some of it could even be pseudoscience, but whatever, I
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: think just the level of like calculations they were making
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: back in those days without you know, powerful computers. Is
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: this outstanding?
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: It's just nuts and it doesn't make sense. It's like, Okay,
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: they're making it without powerful computers, so what are they using?
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: I mean, at one point, the word computer was just
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: meant to human, right, like human beings would be doing
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: the calculations. That was their only job, like to like
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: multiply two numbers, like to make Some astronomers were actually
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: the first mathematicians. The term mathematicians and astronomer were used
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: synonymously at one point.
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: Why is that? Why why most of the stars and math?
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because like studying the stars involved making a lot
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: of geometry calculations, and that was kind of actually one
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: of the first set of mathematicians in India, people like
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: aria A Butta, Bascara, all these guys were actually astronomers too.
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: They were not just mathematicians m HM and ari Butta
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: was earlier to like like the idea of using zeros
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: and then he had a lot of like contributions to
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: geometry and he was doing all this like just because
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: he was interested in astronomy.
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: Isn't there evident of pythagoram theorem in ancient is it
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: ancient Sumerian is it it's some ain't some something that
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: predates Pythagoras.
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: Interesting. My theory is that even though it was not
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: formulated as a photography in theorem, like, I'm sure people
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: had to understand concepts of signs and cosigns and like,
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: you know, whatever is the right angle for the writ
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: inclient to get this right level of like geometry, you
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: need you needed to have some implicit understanding of it
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: to build these kind of structures. There's no way you
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: could do it without.
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: That, yeah, one hundred percent. And you have to have
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: incredible measurement tools, like not just the actual mathematics. Okay.
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: The oldest known evidence of Pythagoran theorem dates from old
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: Babylonian clay tablets from about nineteen hundred to sixteen hundred BCE,
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: roughly one thousand years before Pythagoras. And that wild Like
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: how how clay tablets often cited use what we now
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: call the pytheagram theorem to complete to compute rather the
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: diagonal of rectangles and squares, including an excellent approximation. Look
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: at this, This is nuts. Man Vedic ritual texts explicitly
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: states the rule equivalent that I don't know how to
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: say that what is that a square D squared se
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: squared for the diagonal of a rectangle that includes numerical
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: examples pre dating or roughly contemporary with classical Greek mathematics,
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: so completely different parts of the world. Yeah, and they're
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: coming up with the same.
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: Stuff exactly because they're all curious. That's it.
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're all curious, and eventually all curiosity leads to
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: truth or some form of it.
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: I would argue that anything, anything that's of impact on
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: the world has only been done by curious people. In hindsight,
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: we label those people as successful, as smart, or rich,
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: but the common trade across all of them has been
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: like curious.
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: M Well, that's certainly a powerful trait, and people that
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: aren't curious are not fun.
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they are interesting, So because of that, they don't
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: attract other smarter, interesting people, and therefore they won't be
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: able to do something very meaningful in novele mm hmm.
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: So it's it's it's it's kind of like it's less
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: about and it applies to your personal relationships and personal
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: life too. It's not just about professional success, like you
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: have a more fulfilling life with your wife or your
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: kids if you're a more curious person, You ask them
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: more questions, you take interest in them. Right, So that's
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: that's the one quality everybody wants in personal relationships, is
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: like taking interest in them and like actually understanding them better,
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: or like being curious about common things. And so it's
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: not just that, you know, being curious leads to success.
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: It's more that people around you want you to be
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: successful if you're curious, because you will have more compounding
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: and fulfilling relationships.
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: I would agree with that. Yeah, I'd say it's one
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: of the more more important qualities of human beings. I mean,
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: it's led to everything that we have today. All curiosity
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: has led to all of our architecture, math, everything art, everything.
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: The transistor, like you know the story the transistor. So
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: Bell Labs was basically employing as many, like like history
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: adjusted as many telephone engineers back then as the number
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: of software engineers today, but only three people cared enough
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: to question whether you should use these really hot, giant
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: vacuum tubes for amplifying telephone signals. So vacuum tubes were
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: very big, power hungry, and very hot, and so they
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: were not fault tolerant. And it's very expensive, and so
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: three people questioned the need for that and came up
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: with the idea of the transistor to amplify current and
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: that that was the Nobel price, meaning discovery, and not
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: just that it was useful to amplify telephone signals. It
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: basically led to the rise of modern computing and we
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: wouldn't have an iPhone like this is the data if
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: not for those three people.
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: Do you know what the tinfoil hat conspiracy theory about
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: transistors is? No, that they are back engineered from the
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: roswell crash along with fiber optics anymore. So we read
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: this on the podcast. Remember Jamie, there's the two scientists
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: that were attributed. There's just one scientist that said they
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: weren't even remotely exceptional guys and that they gave them
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: the credit for this so that they didn't have to
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: reveal the true nature of where.
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: This technology came from. I see interesting.
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: So again, tinfoil hat securely on our heads. This is
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: not something I believe. This is just something that's fun.
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: There's a few inventions that came out of that time
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: period roughly after nineteen forty seven that are weird, and
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: one of them is fiber optics and one of them
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: is a transistor, and these are supposedly attributed to back
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: engineering programs. So the Roswell crash, I don't know if
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: you ever paid any attention to it, real weird one
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: because the cover of the Roswell Daily Record said that
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: the government has a crash disc that landed in the desert,
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: A bunch of witnesses, a bunch of people saw it.
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: It's also people that saw supposedly saw physical bodies of
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: these creatures, and supposedly, again who knows what's true. But
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: Truman went to the site, he visited it, and then
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: the planes, two separate planes were flown to right Patterson
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: Air Force Base, which was I think it was just
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: right Base back then. I don't think it was Right Patterson.
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: But they flew them out, and the idea was this
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: material was so important they didn't want to risk one
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: plane crashing, so they flew it in two different planes.
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: And that this stuff has always been known to be
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: stored at right Patterson Air Force Base. That's what EVERYOS
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: talks about. And then a lot of it was moved
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: to Bell Labs, and there was a company, the American
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: Computer Company, and back in the day, the American Computer
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: Company was just like it was a consumer website where
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: you could go and say, oh, I need a Windows
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: computer that does this, that and the other thing, and
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: you could just put in whatever respects were and they
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: would build it for you. But they had a whole
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: section of their website dedicated to Bell Labs and back
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: engineered UFO technology and all they talked about. And this
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: one like whoever ran it was like a fucking cook
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Is that still around website? Yeah, American
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: Computer Companies is still around.
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: Interesting.
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: So this is like the nineteen nineties.
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: I think your theory, I mean, not that you believe
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: in it, with your theories that the transistor was not
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: like invented, it was known and it was given to This.
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: Is apparently a giant leap between the first ideas of
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: the transistor and then what actually came about and how
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: much money had to be spent to create it. Off
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: of this leap, this was this assertion by the scientists
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: that we're trying to examine this. The thing about Bell
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: Labs is there's a military base right outside of Bell Labs.
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: And they say, well, that military base is to gard
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: New York City, but New York City is quite a
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: flight away, but Bell Labs is right there, and they
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: were working on some deep dark shit at Bell Labs
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: for sure, because I've had a bunch of people on
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: that were talking about remote viewing exercises that they were
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: doing out of Bell Labs. You know, We've had a
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: bunch of people that came on and talked about various
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: programs that were going on that were like top secret
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: programs that were happening that were being run through Bell Labs.
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: There's some weirdness to that place, like real weirdness. Interesting, yeah,
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: and it's fun. Yeah, the idea that like.
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: You know that it definitely feels very disconnected, like okay,
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: like you were using all these vacuum tubes and then
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: suddenly you're like, okay, like what if we just use semiconductors. Okay.
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: There's definitely a pretty far drift from what you were
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: doing currently what you're supposed to do. And also the
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: idea of the first transistor and what ended up being
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: used in chips. The junction transistor are quite different too,
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: so they are like big leaps in terms of what
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: the core idea was. It's not an incremental change the
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: way I thought about it was like, okay, that's like
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: tens of years of work and that's why they made
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: a big change. And so if you actually looked into
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: the individual milestones they had, maybe it would have looked
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: pretty different. But your conspiracy theory is pretty interesting.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: Like it's always fun. Yeah, And also there's just too
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: many stories of this. And David grush is, you know,
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: on Oath, said that there are back engineering programs and
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: he was read into these and that they've been around
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: for a long time. But this is the assertion of
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: that movie, The Age of Disclosure, that the real problem
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: is that they have misappropriated funds and lied to Congress.
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: And so if they come out and tell you, okay,
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: we do have this program, well guess what. Everybody goes
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: to jail because you guys are a bunch of liars
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: and you've been stealing money and you've been doing it
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: whatever you want to do with this money. I don't
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: know like how much how much oversight is there and
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: back engineering UFO programs, you know, so probably a lot
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: of people get in trouble, a lot of people go
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: to jail. On top of that, these things are all
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: being done by weapons manufacturers, right, like where you're going
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: to bring them to, Well, you're going to bring them
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: to Lockheed Martin or are you going to bring them
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: to you know, Rocketdyne, Or it's going to be someone
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: that does that kind of work. You're not going to
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: do it on your It's not going to be like
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: we'll do it. No, you're going to have to bring
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: it to people that already make spaceships or bring it
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: to people that already make jets, and so they have
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: a massive competitive advantage over any other company that's doing it.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: So then there's other companies that also had contracts with
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: the United States government they can sue, and so he
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: lays out all the problems with disclosure, and their assertion
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: is that the only thing what we need if we
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: really want to find out the truth, is we're going
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: to need widespread amnesty for all these people that were involved.
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: My problem with that is that's what I would say too,
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: if I had been stealing money for decades and decades,
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: I'd be like, we need amnesty, and then I'll tell
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: you where all this stuff is. I'm like, how do
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: we know what this stuff is? Whether or not these
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: are just top secret military programs with advanced propulsion technology
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: that's unavailable to the public, and they're going to say
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: that as aliens and they back engineered this and they
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: did that, Like, they clearly don't want to tell people.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: They don't want people to know. I think a large
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: part of it is probably because they could get in trouble,
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: but I think also a large part of it is
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: because it's fun to keep secrets from people, especially when
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: you're the government. Why tell them? Fuck those people, Yeah,
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: fuck them. They don't even know UFOs are real. Meanwhile,
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: you know, we're going into a bunker in the middle
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: of the mountain and we're remote viewing. You know, it's
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: probably there's probably a lot of fun involved in having
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: access to information that most people would kill for.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's so much information that we just don't
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: have access.
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: To, which brings me to this question with it seems
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: like one of the things that's happening with both with
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: AI and with technology in general, is that you have
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: more and more access to information and more and more
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: answers to questions than ever before. At a certain point
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: in time, there's gonna be no bottleneck and we're gonna
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: know everything about everything. So how is anyone in government
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: gonna keep a secret. How is any corruption ever gonna
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: be possible. It's at a certain point in time all
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: of it will get uncovered. Like it's much more difficult
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: to commit murder now with DNA evidence. Right back in
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: the eighteen hundred, it's like I didn't see nothing, I
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: wasn't there, and then you're free. Like now they do
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: your fingerprints, Now they get your DNA. Now there's flock cameras,
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: there's like more and more and more. It's harder to
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: get away with things. Yeah, So it seems like to
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: me like whatever they have, whatever anybody has, ultimately there's
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: going to come a point in time where there's so
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: much data and so much information and you could run
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: all your questions. Like there's an AI fact checker for
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: politicians now, yeah, so while politician is giving a speech,
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: you can run an AI fact checker and in real
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: time it will tell you whether or not these people
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: are full of shit. This it seems like the direction
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: is there's not gonna be anybody full of shit in
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: the future, because it's not gonna be possible.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, the government still would have access to
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: things that be human beings wouldn't have access to like
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: like regular people and particularly defense related weapons related like
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: for example, when they did the Venezuelain thing, I don't
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: think people in Venezuela even understood like what even those
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: weapons were.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: Well, only we did.
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: We were described as like yeah, they were described as
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: something the literal words used for like alien like technology.
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: So so even we didn't know that the United States
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: had access to that quality of defense technology until that
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: didn't happen. So there are obviously going to be secrets, right,
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: especially the highest takes things. I would say, like building
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: frontier AI models is similar to that. Of course, as
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: more and more models are getting open source, I think
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: the knowledge is diffusing, but still the true amount of
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: details that you need to actually train a really amazing
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: frontier reasoning capability model, it's still not like widely diffused.
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: So my things my hypothesis that whatever is extremely high
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: stakes will still not be widely diffused. It at least
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: there will be enough structures in place to keep it
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: secret forever. Not forever, but for a.
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 2: While for a while. Yeah, that's the thing.
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: Long term shure like things to it out and people don't.
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 2: Feels like long term is what I'm looking at, Like,
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: look when we're looking at history. We're talking in these
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 2: like when we're looking all these different temples and all
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: these different things, we're talking about thousands and thousands of
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: years and thousands of zero time span in between each
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: individual one. With our world, we're talking about massive change
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: in two hundred years. Yeah, Like this country's two hundred
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 2: and fifty years old. Think about how kooki that is? Yeah,
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 2: that is a blink of an eye in history.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: Do we understand everything that happened in the United States? No, exactly,
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: So there are still some details that are sure hidden
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: from us, Like we don't fully understand everything right for now.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, But my question is, as time goes on two
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: hundred and fifty years from now, isn't even possible to
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: keep any secrets from anybody? And is that a good thing?
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 2: It might be a good thing. It sounds horrible to
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: people because they're like, oh my god, what about privacy? Right?
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: But also what about lies? Yeah, no more lies, Like
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 2: everyone one's going to know what you're thinking. Everyone's going
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: to know everything people do all the time.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, if you are a true surveillance state,
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: obviously there are no secrets, right except about the government itself.
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: That's the problem. Yeah, does it bottomneck with the government
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 2: or does it get to a point where there you
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: can't even have government secrets because as technology evolves and
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: as human civilization of alls, secrets will be less and less.
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: Not just necessary, but secrets would be problematic because there'll
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 2: be an impediment to knowledge. There'll be impediment to understanding
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: the true the true scope of what the world is like,
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: the true nature of all of our various moving parts.
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, as long as the human quality, the
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: intrinsic human quality of curiosity and truth seekingness, which is
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: you know, universal, It's existed ever since we known human beings.
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: If that continues, and that continues to be the case,
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: then people will have enough incentives to figure out the truth.
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: And if something is actually hard to get to, it
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: only motivates you more to actually go and find.
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: It for sure. So my question is where does this
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 2: all go? You know, and you obviously work in AI,
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 2: and when you think about AI, and when you think
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 2: about just technology in general, and you extrapolate, you just
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 2: take it from here and you just plot it out,
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: like what is a possible scenario of two hundred and
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 2: fifty years from now, like, what does it even look like?
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 2: What does the United States look like at five hundred
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 2: years old?
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: It's very hard to know. I'll be very honest. I
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: think it's very hard to know. Even five years from now,
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: it's going to look like that's crazy.
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, five years ago was like.
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: Five years ago? Whoever is the top most in AI?
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: I don't even consider myself like that, But whoever is
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: the most frontier level of decision making in AI? Five
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: years ago? I don't think they predicted the exact state
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: via in today. Nobody did. If they did, they would
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: have already procured all the compute and like you know,
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: manufactured all the chips, bought out all the fabs. They
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: have done all that, right, just this counterfactual, everyone's like
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: bottlenecked by not having enough compute and like we have
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: we don't have enough chips, we don't have enough power.
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: These are all the problems that if you invite anybody
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: in AI and ask what is the bottleneck in AI today,
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: and everybody would say power. I think Jensen was here
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: and he said the same thing, right, Yeah, but okay,
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: like if you predicted this exact state five years before,
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: wouldn't you have secure enough power and started building more
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: power plans yourself and started getting permits and like started
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: like planning out capacity. No, nobody did that, nobody. Everything
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: is reactive to the demand that we're having today.
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 2: So and that's just five years.
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's just five years. So when you asked me
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: to predict two hundred two years, like, I just have
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: to honestly say, I don't know.
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 2: Do you ever sit back and think about it?
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: Though I do think about it, I don't think about it.
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: So they are like a lot of fun. I use
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: perplexity a lot for these kind of things, especially this
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: new feature computer inside it and one one one. This
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: is just for hypothetical scenarios. Let's say there is an AGI, right,
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: and I've seen you ask a lot of people about
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: this and and a lot of conventional answers is like, oh,
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: like we'll just become managers of ais. Don't worry. But
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: if the price of cognition is the price of compute,
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: managing an AI is also pretty much doable by the
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: AI itself, because it's the bottleneck is not like unique
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: cognition capability there, So the value of the society will
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: automatically shift to what is scarce and uh. Fundamentally what
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: has been scarce is like asking like high quality questions
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: about things. Okay, like what if like we just completely
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: spend all our time understanding the past, Like that's an
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: interesting end different. It was not cool before, but it'll
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 1: it'll become cool again. And like we usually used to
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: view like archaeology or history, it is not something that's
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: like worth having a career and because it doesn't pay well,
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: but what if it actually starts paying, you will a
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: lot more now that like actual knowledge works being done
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: my ais and think it's all mundane and all the
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: price of that is basically a zero.
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 2: Right in archaeology would be one of the few things
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 2: that it wouldn't have access to because it doesn't have
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 2: the actual ground. It can't get into the ground and
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 2: do the scans.
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 1: And no let's say we have like robots to go
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: do that.
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: But but you're still going to be the one probing,
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: right because you have incomplete information all the time. Even
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: the idea of like okay, let's go explore this particular area,
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: let's go understand better. Oh, let's let's go try to
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: reverse engineer, let's go try to build this again. How
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: would it be if we wanted to do the same
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: thing on the moon. There are like so many interesting
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 1: projects to work on for us as long as we
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: are we stay curious, and we stay interested in like
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: a lot of things that we've done before and trying
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: to understand like civilization that I'm not really concerned about,
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: like what things we get to do. We might be
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: doing a lot more cool things for what it's worth.
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: Like I don't know if anybody would be like coming
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: and said telling you that, Oh it's so cool to
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: like open and excelciate every day and make financial models
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: compared to.
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 2: Like there's got to be somebody out there that likes that.
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's something about like the task you do
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: and and what you get paid for, Like what is
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: the job that olh blah blah blah. And some people
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: associate their personal worth with like where they work at
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: and how much they get paid. And I think that
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: that thing is going to collapse in an in a
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: world where like the price of all that cognition is
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: going to be the price of compute.
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 2: What do you think happens to people if a large
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 2: percentage of jobs get replaced by AI.
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: I think they'll find new things. We've always gravitated towards
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: things that are scarce because that's where the value lies.
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: And so if you know, have you one interesting analogy
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: is have you do you the golf states where there's
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: an abundance of resources and export their resources to other states,
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: and that pays for the whole state. You know how
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: like they offer everybody free electricity, subsidized health, sub as education,
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: and like no taxes. When I first went to Dubai,
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: like almost like twenty years ago, they told me, like,
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: people don't pay taxes here, and nobody pays for electricity here,
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: and education is like super cheap. And I was like, wait,
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: how's that real? And the way that's real is that
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: I mean, of course Texas also has no taxes, and
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: you know, any well run state can do this. But
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: the way it's happening is that because the government provides
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: you all these things, it becomes a rontier state, Like
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: you offer political acquasms to the state. And what ended
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: up happening is citizens there expect the state to find
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: them jobs, expect the state to take care of like
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: job displacement for them, so they don't worry. So it
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: made them a little more lazy so that's not a
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: good future to have. Where some people talk about AI
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: subsidies and aid dividends that get paid to everybody. I
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: think we need to do some form of that, but
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: that that an entirety will solve the problem.
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 2: Right, Well, the thing about human nature is sort of undeniable,
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 2: and if you give people the ability to be lazy,
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 2: a large percentage of people will take that. That's right,
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 2: large percentage won't. Though, There's gonna be enough people that
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 2: are inspired to do something and they say, okay, well,
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 2: now my basic needs are taken care of, let me
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 2: pursue my actual interests and find purpose in that. Yeah,
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 2: because that's a lot of people find purpose in whatever
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 2: their occupation is. And if we can shift that to
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 2: finding purpose in what your actual interests are and then
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 2: really pursuing something whatever it is, and that then you'll
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 2: still have meaning in your life.
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: And it keeps coming back to staying curious, yes, and
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: and and finding value in your relationships, your your family,
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: caring for each other. If you ask a lot of
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: retired people, actually retired people is a good demographic, don't
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 1: understand what would happen? What are things people find meaning
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 1: and after like work's taken off them, and all majority
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: of the answers are always like family, caring, you know,
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 1: personal like like relationships and community like these are the
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: things that retired people keep doing to like, you know,
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 1: keep themselves active and wake up every day and have
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: something to look for. So all those things will become
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: even more important at a time when like work itself
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: doesn't mean much. Doesn't mean humans won't be status seeking.
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: I think we'll still be, but status is not gonna
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: come from whether you're working at you know, like a
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: particular famous bank or a tech company or whatever. It'll
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 1: be driven by like how interesting you are? Are you
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 1: interesting to talk to when I can talk to an AI, Like,
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: despite that, are you still interesting to talk to? Are
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: there certain things I get out of talking to you
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: that completely change my perspective about a bunch of things?
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: Or is it just fun to hang around you? Can
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: we have a compounded relationship together? And I think again
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: it goes goes back to like, you know, being curious
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 1: about things.
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 2: Well, this is the best case scenario, right, worst case
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 2: scenario is civilization, upheaval, chaos, civil war.
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: And it's possible, It's possible even without an AI.
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, so that's what We've gotten real close to
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 2: it a couple of times.
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: Exactly, so, and and and and we did not need
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: an AGI like scenario for a civilization collapse in the past.
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: As you've clearly seen, a calamity can just take out
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: all of us.
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 2: Wipe out everything, especially natural ones.
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's why I'm not a big fan of everybody
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: claiming that the AI is gonna, you know, kill us,
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: so like a GI is gonna destroy humanity, and like
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 1: it's too dangerous and we all need to stop doing
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: these things. But at the same time continuing to stay
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: centers and continuing to make money. You have to have
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: one consistent position. My position is that whether AI or not,
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: I think being curious is going to serve you really well.
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: I think it's going to help you have a better life.
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: And there are two paths to curiosity, one that can
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: kill it and one that can supercharge it. In my opinion,
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: the one that kills curiosity is algorithmic feeds, like the
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 1: brain rot that you're fed every day with just you know,
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: just continuous doom scrolling. That's bad. And the one that
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 1: can supercharge it is AI. Okay, Like now that you
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: could just ask whatever you want. If everybody has like
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: a pull it up Jamie for them, you know, right,
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: and that's amazing. Okay, So all you have to do
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 1: is be curious about a lot of different things, and
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 1: of course talk to interesting people, engage in interesting activities together.
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: If money is no longer an issue, you can fund
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 1: passion projects yourself. You don't have to required government funding
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: or venture funding. Like what if you just wanted to
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: build a mini cave yourself? Okay, Like you find a
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 1: piece of land somewhere. There's a lot of land in America,
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: way more land than we know what to do with it,
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 1: and and and surely we can build a lot of
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: interesting things there.
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 2: Well, that's a good glass half full scenario. And one
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 2: of the things that I keep coming to is this
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 2: whole idea of people working and making money and having
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 2: careers and having portfolios and bank accounts. And this is
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 2: all very recent in human history.
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, very very recent, very very reason.
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 2: But we've become accustomed to this as a way of life, and.
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 1: We Microsoft Microsoft built this concept of a knowledge worker
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 1: because they wanted to sell more office software. Really yeah,
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: like like this whole idea of putting a PC on
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 1: every desk and making you like glue to the PC
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 1: was there? That was Billgates, we should put a PC
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 1: on every desk.
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 2: Fu Wizard what what incredible accomplishment? Because boy did they
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 2: nail it.
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 1: Yes, it was not about making computing like beautiful or
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 1: anything in the way like Steve Jobs envisioned it. It
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 1: was just about like, sell more software, sell more computers,
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: because that way you can sell more software, and if
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: you sell more software, you become rich. And and and
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 1: the company just was a machine that was just you know,
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 1: built essentially a large sales machine, just built of sales
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 1: software and and and uh and uh now they sell
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 1: cloud but whatever like that. That that's essentially the reason
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 1: that like you know, we all got trained to use software.
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: People went into tutorials on how to use Excel, how
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 1: to use word, how to use all these email tools.
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 1: And then now that became the upskilling. You needed to
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 1: go work at different companies and then write code and
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 1: like whatever. Right, so that if that part is going
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 1: to be done by an AI, it's not necessarily a
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 1: bad thing because this is not actually the way you
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 1: feel like real purpose and fulfillment in your own life.
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 1: If if you were never exposed to that. Whatever you
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 1: had as the intrins of curiosity in you, that's probably
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 1: what you should be doing.
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there could be a completely new way to live
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 2: life where we're not dependent upon labor for basic needs.
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 2: But then it's gonna be incumbent upon people. They're gonna
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 2: have to figure out a way to be either self
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 2: starting or we're gonna have to expose people to things
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 2: that are going to excite their curiosity and make that
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 2: a mandate.
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 1: It has to start from schools. Yeah, and as long
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 1: as we keep rewarding people for having answers instead of
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 1: asking interesting questions, it's going to be a difficult change.
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 1: Like in schools, you're always rewarded for being smart basis
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: on whether you have answers, Like many different questions like
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: who cares? Like all those downy questions can be answered
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 1: by ais. Have you ever like flip the script where
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: you say, okay, like I'm gonna the smartest person in
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 1: the room is the one who has the most interesting questions. Hmm, okay.
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 1: What kind of students can you cultivate based on that?
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 1: Like imagine if the room had no pressure to always
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 1: know the answer, but the freedom to ask a lot
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 1: of questions.
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 2: Right, because sometimes when someone asks a question, it'll it
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 2: does make you pause and go, I never even thought
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 2: of that, but that's it, Like that's the question. Yeah,
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 2: And it takes a I mean, so many people have
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 2: so many different perspectives, which is one of the more
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 2: interesting things that I've experienced doing this podcast is I
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 2: get to talk to so many different people and they
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 2: vary so widely. There's so many different ways of looking
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 2: at the world, and so many different ways of engaging
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 2: with the world, and so many different things that people
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 2: are fascinated with that they spent their entire life studying
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 2: and pursuing. It's like you get this rich tapestry of
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 2: the human experience. That's just I would have never been
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 2: exposed to this many people, and in turn, I've been
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 2: able to expose these people to all these other folks
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 2: that are just listening and watching right now, and it's
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 2: fucking incredible and it's such a for me. It's like
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 2: the perfect job. I've never had a job that more
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 2: aligns with my own personality as much as this because
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 2: I've always been that kid, like shut the fuck up
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 2: with all the questions. I've always been.
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 1: That that's the system. Right, it's not it's not your fault,
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 1: like it's actually the reason you're successful now is the
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: exact thing that people told you to shut up about
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 1: in the past. Right, yeah, you know, hey, you you know,
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 1: stop bothering my lecture, you know, asking all these unrelated questions.
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 1: It's it's mainly a frustration of the teacher that they
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 1: don't have the answers to you, right or sure, and
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 1: and and and now that that bottleneck is gone. We
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 1: did this experiment with with one one instructor at MIT
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 1: who taught the introduction to Biology class, where he came
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 1: and told us that he's going to give perplexity to
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 1: all all the kids, all the students, and they would
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 1: use it as part of the lectures. So instead of
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 1: fighting AI, you just give a as to everybody and
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 1: let them ask whatever questions they want, and they can
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 1: actually use it in the exams to So how do
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 1: you even design questions for an exam in such a world?
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 1: Is maybe you just encourage people to pose a question
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 1: that AI can't answer right now, and that becomes your
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 1: research project and you turn everybody into a scientist. Fundamentally, Like,
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 1: there's this belief that scientists have to go through a
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 1: rigorous PhD and like you have to get you know,
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 1: accredited by like an amazing university to be that. Sure,
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 1: but anyone who's curious can be a scientist. The only
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 1: thing that's required to be a good scientist is intellectual
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 1: humility to understand that you could be wrong about things.
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 1: Things that everyone takes for granted, you could still question them.
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 1: And when you're presented with new evidence and new data,
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: you're willing to change your mind, and you're willing to
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 1: operate with ambiguity and uncertainty about the world. That's that's
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 1: basically all the qualities you need to be a scientist.
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: And you can run your experiments, you can gather data,
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 1: you can gather evidence, and you can consult people. You
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 1: can bring in experts and talk to them. And as
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 1: long as you're uncovering more and more about the world,
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: you are a scientist. You don't need a PhD to
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 1: feel that you're allowed to be a scientist or not.
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 1: And I think that's the most important quality we need
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 1: to inculcate in our kids, the upcoming generation, so that
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 1: they all feel more liberated. Okay, Like, finally, I don't
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 1: have to memorize this textbook or these lecture materials, and like,
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 1: I don't have to feel bad if I get like
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 1: twelve out of twenty. Okay, who cares, Like, Hey, it's
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 1: always going to get twenty out of twenty. That's not
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 1: what you're meant to be. Like good at of course,
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 1: mass to the foundations the basics, great, but your job
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 1: is to actually post interesting questions.
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And the inte excuse me, intellectual humility is so
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 2: important because one of the things that was really weird
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 2: about the whole COVID pandemic was that we weren't supposed
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 2: to question science. Yeah, it was like that, Or when
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 2: Fauci said, if you questioned Anthony Fauci, you are questioning science.
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 1: That's because they try to assign credibility through their degrees, Yes,
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 1: through their affiliation, yes, appeal to it, that not through
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 1: the scientific method. Right, anybody should be allowed to ask
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 1: questions as long as they are open to new evidence. Yeah,
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 1: and that's the most important quality of a scientist.
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 2: Well, the scientific method alone, I mean, it's one of
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 2: the most important things that we can use to try
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 2: to figure out what's real and what's not real. And
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 2: as soon as someone says, don't use it, Yeah, don't question.
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 2: Well wait in a minute. And then there was an
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 2: actual government push to silence questioning and legitimate researchers were
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 2: kicked off of Twitter because they didn't back the narrative. Yeah,
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 2: like this is all anti science, This is not this
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 2: is not your questioning science. Well, science demands questioning. Yeah,
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 2: that's what it is.
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, then you don't understand something, the best thing you
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 1: can do is ask all possible questions, right, and so
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 1: curbing that is almost like a way of saying, look,
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 1: I'm going to tell you what happened. You need to
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 1: believe in my whole view, and I'm not open to
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 1: new perspectives.
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 2: I wonder if anybody has used AI to try to
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 2: map out possible scenarios for where technology leads human civilization
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 2: and what could be done to mitigate the problems and
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 2: push it in the proper direction, Like have a bunch
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 2: of different models of how this could play out.
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I try to do that for fun,
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 1: but I haven't done it in a serious enough way
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 1: to have like a proper answer to that. But I think,
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 1: like you know, a lot of things that we are
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 1: doing to be a will not be considered needed or valuable,
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 1: and maybe a little bit of taking our own lessons
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 1: from the past. I don't know if you when you
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 1: grew up as a student, did you have to like
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 1: be good at mental math, like multiplying ar three numbers?
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 1: Was that considered a sign of smartness or remembering people's
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 1: full numbers or something?
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 2: Well, you had to because there was I mean you
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 2: had little address books as we used to carry around,
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 2: like a little ad a little address book that I
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 2: keep on my desk. Yeah, it's a little tiny thing
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 2: with everybody's number name. That's the only way I knew
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 2: people's numbers, and I remembered a bunch of them, like
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 2: all my friends I had all my friends. I don't
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 2: have any of my friend's numbers remembered. Yeah, maybe my
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 2: wife and my friend Eddie. I have two numbers in
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 2: my head.
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 1: But was there a time when people thought somebody was
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 1: smart based on how good their memory power was?
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 3: Oh?
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely.
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 1: But would you would you say that now?
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 2: Well, people are impressed if you know things. Now, you know,
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 2: I have a bunch of like weird information obviously that
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 2: I've gathered through so many years doing this podcast, in
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 2: just so many years of being curious, you know, Like
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 2: sometimes even my own daughter is like, how the fuck
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 2: do you know that? Like this is what I do,
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 2: Like that's my thing. Yeah, you know, I pay attention
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 2: to stuff. But yeah, I mean memory itself is always
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 2: very impressive. And someone has an excellent memory and can
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 2: pull out facts of the past, we automatically equate that
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 2: to intelligence.
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's impressive, but it's not necessarily a
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 1: sign of being intelligent, right, Like I think it's just
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 1: a look, you have a very fast lookup table in
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 1: your head. That's great, it's very valuable. But I still
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 1: think like being smart is all about posing the most
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 1: interesting questions.
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 2: Also the decisions that you make, and whether or not
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 2: you self correct when you make mistakes.
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, all those things exactly. So when you when
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 1: you have an amplifier to intelligence, like an AI all
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 1: the time, where you look ups is essentially something you
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 1: can delegate. Reasoning for decision making is something you can delegate.
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 1: But posing the right questions to gather the right data
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 1: and then forming your own judgment based on what it
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 1: reasons and comes up with, and finally having the courage
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 1: to make the decision. That's still you that agency, that
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 1: intrinsic curiosity to ask the right question, the scientific intellectual
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 1: humility to like you know, gather new evidence, always questioning
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 1: your beliefs. That that is still you. And so I
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 1: feel like that is essentially what would be considered smart
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 1: and the ages to come if somebody is like a
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 1: you know, like a proxy scientist or whatever, Like no
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 1: more doesn't have to go to like a mightier Harbor
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 1: and get a PhD to be a scientist or to
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 1: be considered a scientist, because all scientific literature is open
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 1: and it's accessible to everybody, and you can you can
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 1: even take a paper written by an expert and use
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 1: an AI understand it deeply, ask a lot of questions,
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 1: and maybe even disprove what they claim to be true.
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 1: That's the whole peer review process, right, The peer review
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 1: process is all about questioning somebody's paper. And that's why, like,
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 1: you know, whatever you said happened in the COVID days is wrong.
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 1: Like you should be allowed to ask questions about even
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 1: eminent scientists work. It's okay. Like if you're dumb and
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 1: you have had the wrong questions, sure you're going to
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 1: learn from that. It's worse than not being allowed to
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 1: ask the question.
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, agreed, It's going to be interesting to see what
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 2: the future of education looks like, like how valuable are
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 2: degrees when essentially AI is going to be able to
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 2: do the majority of whatever work you need done on variety,
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 2: Like how how good are they right now at just law?
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 2: Like you could ask creations? Pretty pretty amazing, right? How
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 2: good are they at mathematics? Perfect? Like how good are
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 2: they at coding? Way better than people? And at a
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 2: certain point in time, it's going to be interesting that
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 2: like what is education now? Is education just providing you
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 2: with information because that information is readily available? Or is
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 2: education teaching you how to think? Yeah, teaching you how
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 2: to pursue your interests and be curious and have intellectual
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 2: humility and understand what you know and what you don't know.
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 1: I think that that's what it should be. I still
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 1: think institutions will preserve their brand value because there is
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 1: a certain aspect of education that's outside of learning. Is
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 1: just having access to other curious and intelligent people. Sure,
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 1: and community, Yeah, and brands attract good communities, peer groups,
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 1: blah blah blah. But the actual process of learning stuff
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 1: has to change and and what you're rewarded for has
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 1: to change. So fundamentally, everything you know flows down is
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 1: downstream of the incentive. Right, So if the incentive is
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 1: to score the highest on the exam based on answers,
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 1: you're not really changing much. If you need to change
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 1: that process, you need to change the process of what
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 1: are your rewarded to them, Like what is a plus
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 1: or a right? That that's where we need to start at.
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 2: Well's also the we know we talked about this the
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 2: other day that the education system in this kind was
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 2: designed to make workers exactly that's what they did when
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 2: they first started doing it.
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the curriculum was designer around that. Yeah. Well in
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 1: India it's still the case, by the way, really even
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 1: if you're a computer even if you go into a
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 1: computer science degree. I don't know if it's still as
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 1: I shouldn't speak, but at least when I was there,
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 1: and for many years after the first two years, you
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 1: just spent learning hardcore electrical and mechanical engineering. You would
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 1: learn like welding using late machines. You would have to
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 1: like go and like do workshops, carpentry, a lot of
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 1: these things. It was fun.
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 2: I would think there's been a lot of value in that.
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 1: So in hindsight, I actually think it was fun to
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 1: learn soldiering and like how to like make circuits on
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 1: red boards and burn the circuit boards. But if somebody
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 1: was just interested in some you know, just writing code.
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 1: Let's say, back then, all this is kind of like
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 1: pointless to learn, but you had to go through it
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 1: to be qualified as an engineer mm so and and
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 1: and the reason the curriculum was designed that way is
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 1: because that's what the labor force was required back then
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 1: to build like oil factories and like all these things
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 1: that you had to learn mechanical engineering, you had to
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 1: learn fluid mechanics, whatever. But I think that that should
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 1: also change because if the way like you do work changes,
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 1: then what you're trained for in college should also change.
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 1: And it's much harder to change these things. You know,
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 1: people are much slower, they're cared to do changes, disruptions
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 1: always like looked down upon, And so I think we
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 1: should let's at least start at the incentive structure right
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 1: from the schools, right from the college's Like, let's not
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 1: like reward people based on like how much they know
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 1: well it.
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 2: It seems like in the future when things do radically change,
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 2: and they seems like they're inevitable. They're going to radically change.
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 2: Universities and schools are going to be rewarded for having
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 2: developed thinkers that are able to adapt to this new world.
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so they're going to have to figure out how
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 2: to adjust their curriculum. Yeah, because the tools are so
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 2: spectacular now that just this idea of just memorizing information
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 2: is it's not. That's not what you're gonna need to
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 2: get by in the future.
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 1: It's not. And I guess, like one proxy different schools
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 1: uses like maybe if more entrepreneurs arise out of your school,
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 1: you'll probably created a lot of independent thinkers m M,
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 1: because they are willing to take a first perspective towards
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 1: a problem, right and build their own thing from scratch.
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 1: And fundamentally, that's what America has always been about, is
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 1: you know some the American dream of coming here and
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 1: like having your own idea and still be taken seriously
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 1: by a bunch of people. The whole idea of venture
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 1: capital and leaks this year or like kick family and
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 1: friends around, this whole idea of just having your friends
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 1: help you to bootstrap a business and then turning it
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 1: into a success. And success doesn't mean like multi billion
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 1: or ten billion or whatever, right, Like, as long as
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 1: it pays you enough that you don't have to work
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 1: for somebody else and you can live a fulfilling life
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 1: and you can just go explore your passions, that's success.
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 1: That's actually a better success than creating company based on
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 1: what other people want you to do and then hating
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 1: your job for it.
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and having a yacht and being miserable exactly every day.
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 1: And that's why I said, like, not the smartest of
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 1: the richest people are not always the ones who are
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 1: the most fulfilling lives. The most curious people have the
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 1: most fulfilling lives because they have better relationships. They're actually
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 1: able to sit and look at something and you know,
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 1: be curious about it instead of like being worried about
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 1: what's going on?
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 2: Well, what did the American dream? What was it to
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 2: you when you weren't in America? Like what what is it? Like? Oh?
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 2: Like what is How's it discussed well?
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 1: To me? Like I always thought America is the only
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 1: country where you can come here and have an idea
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 1: and people listen to you. And uh, and and and
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 1: encourage you to go pursue it. The risk seeking culture
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 1: is incredible here. Everybody everywhere else you can are like
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 1: either explicitly or implicitly or forced to a differ the authority. Okay,
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 1: like go and ask the permission of this person, Go
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 1: and ask the permission of that person, or get their
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 1: approval or get their inside or sure you can get there.
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 1: You can consult everybody out there. But if you have
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 1: a thought that challenges what they believe in this country
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 1: still encourages you to like go pursue it. And so yes,
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 1: like when I came here, obviously you know Google was
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 1: the number one company that everybody wanted to work in.
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 1: But it's also the same country where it allows you
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 1: as a new person to start a new idea that challenge.
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 1: Is one of the biggest companies in this own country,
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 1: and it actually wants it. People actually want new ideas,
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 1: And then you can consistently see that they are like
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 1: always going to be more and more new ideas and
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 1: new companies to be created here. And so that spirit
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 1: of like questioning is encouraged a lot here, and it
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 1: happens in academic research. I started off as an academic
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 1: even there a lot of ideas when I had it,
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 1: and I would share it with people. You know, people
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 1: actually give you very honest feedback about things, but they
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 1: don't stop you from working on anything. And that's fantastic
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 1: because that's that's very fresh, it's very liberating.
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 2: And that's not anywhere else.
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 1: I would say, it's not it's not. It's a simplification
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 1: to say it's not anywhere else.
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 2: But it's not as encouraged.
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 1: It's not as encouraged. The incentive structures are not quite there,
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 1: and ability to like be taken seriously for some crazy
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 1: ideas is why America is at the top.
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 2: But it's crazy to me that if the American dream
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 2: is so compelling and so many people come here for
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 2: why doesn't the rest of the world sort of adopt
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 2: those values.
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 1: It's hard, you know, like a lot of it is cultural,
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 1: Like America was bond was made from, like you know,
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 1: a piece of land essentially right, and a lot of
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 1: ideas that we built here, a lot of industries that
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 1: were built here. We're all created here from nothing, and
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 1: that required you to like go take bold risks. I
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 1: think Jeff Bezos said this in some podcast that where
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 1: else would you be able to go raise like a
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 1: few million dollars for an idea that has like five
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 1: to ten percent chance of working, and then fail at
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 1: it and still go and raise another few million dollars
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 1: for your next idea. Nowhere else people are willing to
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 1: like people who get rich here actually want to encourage
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 1: and be part of somebody else's crazy journey because it's
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 1: hard to pursue all crazy bets yourself. So it's an ecosystem.
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 1: And once something becomes an ecosystem as network effects, so
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 1: it's very hard to copy that elsewhere.
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 2: And so your value is measured in your curiosity and
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 2: you're willing to work, your willingness to work on whatever
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 2: it is, Yes, it is your pursuit. Yes, and then
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 2: eventually adjusting and learning and catching fire with one of them.
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 1: Correct, And you have to work hard, like you know,
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 1: like I'm a big believer in intense hard work. I
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 1: think nothing great can be accomplished by being soft. And
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 1: so all this like recent push for you know, having
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 1: a lot of work life balances, and that sure, if
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 1: you have work life if that's what you want, and
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 1: I think there are certain jobs that will give you that.
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 1: But when you're trying to do something from scratch. When
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 1: you're trying to create something from nothing, it's not meant
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 1: to be easy, right, there are some sacrifices that have
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 1: to be made, and you're signing up to be part
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 1: of that experience that it's a real joy you get
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 1: from doing something that's felt almost impossible to achieve. And
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 1: and and you're not doing you're not like staying up
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 1: later or waking up early because you're getting paid more.
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 1: Maybe you might not get paid anything. Maybe this whole
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 1: thing goes to nothing, But that experience you're getting of
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 1: being part of something that feels very hard to achieve
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 1: is what you're signing up for to be part of.
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And if you're not find something else.
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 1: It's fine, respects nothing wrong with that exactly. Yeah, And
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 1: the country has enough jobs provide for all kinds of needs, right.
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 1: And everybody goes through different phases in their life. Sometimes
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 1: they feel a little lazy or like dissillusion, Okay, And
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 1: so what I like about this country is that there's
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 1: a lot of curious people here. There's a lot of like,
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 1: so many different people, you know, like whether they use
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 1: as or not as, they're all like finding meaning in like,
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 1: so many interesting projects.
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 2: Well, obviously I don't know any other country really because
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 2: I was born here. But the people that do talk
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 2: to me about what the American dream is like from
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 2: another country, they're the most passionate and the most supportive
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 2: of this, this idea, this experiment and self government and
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 2: this this the just the whole idea that the country
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 2: operates on that anybody can chase their dream. That you can,
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 2: if you have a dream and you're willing to work hard,
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 2: you could actually do it in this country. That's right, Yeah,
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 2: that's you know, it's most the people that are most
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 2: passionate about that idea oftentimes, or people that come from
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 2: somewhere else where that wasn't available.
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 1: And it's not just like you know, people coming from
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 1: one particular country another. It's it's it's the attitude. It's
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 1: the VATA system works and rewards you to like be
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 1: bold and take bets against established players. It's okay, right,
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 1: It's okay to like be an upstart challenger and people
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 1: love that like underdog, and I think, you know, that's fantastic,
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 1: like and that culture is continuing. Yes, they're all like
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 1: multi trillion drug companies here and they're all going to
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 1: become even bigger, but people still want the young, hungry
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 1: person to also be successful.
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well they love disruptors. Yeah, and people love underdogs
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 2: in this country.
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's it's universal. It's not specific to technology.
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 1: Like I'm sure everybody would love an underdog story that
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 1: wants to go against like Coca Cola or Pipsy or something.
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 2: Oh in sports, it's our favorite sports.
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 2: We don't like when the guy who's supposed to win wins.
• 1:42:26
  Speaker 2: We love when the guy who's not supposed to win triumphs.
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, the underdog story.
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a very uniquely American story to me.
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 1: That's what this country's I mean, sure, there's a lot
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 1: of obstacles and challenges, it's just like every other country.
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 1: There are things here that are challenging, but it's one
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 1: thing that has consistently stayed true.
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 2: One of the big fears that people in America have
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 2: about technology in particular is that, without being aware that
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 2: this was going to take place, everybody gave up their data.
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 2: Everybody gave up their data and didn't recognize it was
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 2: a commodity that in turn made these corporations immensely wealthy
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 2: and powerful. And then they have the ability to shape narratives,
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 2: and that concerns people because using their ideological position as
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 2: leverage to try to push that through technology that has
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 2: immense control and influence over people, and that we didn't
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 2: see technology and corporations as having that much control over
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 2: how society views itself and how we interact with each other.
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 2: And there's a real, real concern that these companies got
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 2: so big and have Like there's a guy named Robert
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 2: Epstein who's done a lot of work on narrated or
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 2: curated search engine results, and how much that can have
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 2: you read seen any of his stuff? I think how
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 2: much that can affect election, how much that can affect
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 2: people's perceptions on any societal issue that's coming up. And
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 2: it's concerning, it really is, because they do curate search results.
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 2: It's not simply you know, you just run it out
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 2: there and you get this as the data. No, you
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 2: get you know, if you look for specific political figures,
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 2: depending upon where they fall in the right or left spectrum,
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 2: and depending upon which way the company forms the corporation
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 2: forms falls rather, you'll get different results. And that sucks,
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 2: you know, that's very concerning that people don't recognize they don't.
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 2: They don't have the ability to see how that is
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 2: dangerous for all of society to have that kind of
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 2: power and wield it in that way where you're not
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 2: being honest about accurate, objective information, you're pushing particular ideologies.
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 1: So I think it's kind of like this is almost
• 1:44:58
  Speaker 1: an effect of the asymmetry that exists between the amount
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 1: of AI power that centralized systems and centralized companies have
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 1: and the amount of AI power as you, as a
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 1: sovereign individual has. So when you don't have the AIS
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 1: to just go judge for yourself like what you should
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 1: be reading and fed, you're obviously like under the influence
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 1: of what you know, whatever big tech companies controlling the
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 1: information for. But when you have access to all those AIS,
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 1: you can actually just customize what you want to see
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 1: by telling the AI like, hey, this is what I
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 1: think you should actually question and tell me. Until now,
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 1: you never had that power for yourself. You're finally getting it,
• 1:45:40
  Speaker 1: And eventually we'll be able to have our own lms,
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 1: like our own models that we would be able to
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 1: post in our own hardware. We don't have to rely
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 1: on like one centralized model given to us by like
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 1: any specific model company, and using that you can shape
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 1: it to your beliefs, your custom you know, your your
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 1: your custom data. And so when you're consuming a search result,
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 1: you can actually task that AI that you control and
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 1: you run, so nobody can shut off access to it
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 1: to tell you like hey, like can you actually like
• 1:46:15
  Speaker 1: give me a Contrarrian perspective on this, or like can
• 1:46:18
  Speaker 1: you tell me if these search results are actually biased?
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 1: So I think we need to give individuals more sovereignty,
• 1:46:25
  Speaker 1: with more access to their own AIS that they own
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 1: and run on a piece of hardware they own themselves.
• 1:46:31
  Speaker 1: And this is the whole Like this is going to
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 1: be reading to the whole rise of local AIS. So
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 1: as AI models like today there very power inefficient. They're
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 1: running on large data centers. But in a year or
• 1:46:41
  Speaker 1: two from now, whatever capability that exists in the most
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 1: power hungry data centers will be it will be possible
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 1: to run it in some box that you own. Yeah,
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 1: it's already happening. It's already happening that. Like there are
• 1:46:54
  Speaker 1: like interesting hardware projects like the Apple Macmini and Vidia
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 1: DGX where you can actually host a reasonable size model
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 1: and put it in a box and have it run
• 1:47:08
  Speaker 1: and you don't have to pay for all the tokens
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 1: it produces you. You just have to plug it into
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 1: your power car and it works.
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 2: I know Duncan, my friend Duncan Trussell, he does that.
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And today the capability of that model that can
• 1:47:23
  Speaker 1: run locally is not quite there, so you would still
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 1: prefer to use something that runs in the data center.
• 1:47:28
  Speaker 1: But eventually this is going to be a spectrum. There's
• 1:47:31
  Speaker 1: going to be some percentage of task that you would
• 1:47:33
  Speaker 1: start delegating to this local system. It will be a
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 1: hybrid model, and over time it could end up being
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 1: the case that you could buy something that feels like
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 1: a refrigerator for your home, which is your own AI
• 1:47:44
  Speaker 1: box and hosts a model that you control so nobody
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 1: can orbitually shut off access to it one day, and
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 1: then you can. You can have that be your weapon
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 1: against what the big tech wants you to be fed
• 1:47:57
  Speaker 1: or believe in. This is the only way you can
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 1: fight this because they have far more computing power, far
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 1: more data, far more algorithms than you. So the only
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 1: way you can fight that is you have something you
• 1:48:10
  Speaker 1: own yourself. And with the rise of open source models,
• 1:48:13
  Speaker 1: open source LMS. You can just and and and and
• 1:48:17
  Speaker 1: progress in local hardware and both Apple and VideA until
• 1:48:21
  Speaker 1: they're all doing amazing work here. You could potentially change
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 1: the future and give people more power. And this may
• 1:48:27
  Speaker 1: not be as expensive as people think.
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 2: Well, that's a good solution, because I've always wondered, like,
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 2: are these searches, like using Google? Is that going to
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 2: be irrelevant one day? Because you already can just ask
• 1:48:41
  Speaker 2: your phone like I most of the time. If I
• 1:48:43
  Speaker 2: want to have an answer for something, I just asked Perplexity,
• 1:48:46
  Speaker 2: it's like, what is it? And instead of like having
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 2: to sift through all these Google searches, yeah, and try
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 2: to figure out what it's showing me first and get
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 2: to page three where it's what I really want to know. Yeah,
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 2: I can get the accurate information then follow up questions
• 1:48:59
  Speaker 2: or againstantane.
• 1:49:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and and and and even the models that are
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 1: running the Perplexity app today, they're all in the cloud.
• 1:49:06
  Speaker 1: Eventually you'll be able to do that on a box
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 1: that you own. You can still you can still use
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 1: the front end, the UI of the app, but you
• 1:49:15
  Speaker 1: can control the compute that runs on on on piece
• 1:49:19
  Speaker 1: of hardware. You may ask why why do I care? Okay, Like,
• 1:49:23
  Speaker 1: what if some someday, like the data center gets taken off,
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 1: like Iran was bombing data centers, right, Like what if
• 1:49:30
  Speaker 1: some day, like the government decides that model is no
• 1:49:32
  Speaker 1: longer available. You want some control over like like what
• 1:49:36
  Speaker 1: models you can run and like you can you may
• 1:49:39
  Speaker 1: even want to shape it to like your context that
• 1:49:41
  Speaker 1: you never want to be living on any data center hm,
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 1: hm and and and and I think that's where I
• 1:49:48
  Speaker 1: believe the individual gets more sovereignty against big tech. And
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 1: that's how like we fight the surveillance or like centralization
• 1:49:57
  Speaker 1: of power.
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and certainly pushing narratives. What do you think happens
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 2: with social media? Because social media and as you were
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 2: talking about before, like algorithms, like it's one of the
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 2: biggest problems in terms of the way people view the world.
• 1:50:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm curious. What do you think, Like you know,
• 1:50:16
  Speaker 1: like my opinion is that it's not good for the kids.
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 2: It's terrible for them. Yeah, but I think they should
• 1:50:21
  Speaker 2: have some exposure to it because I think it's good
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 2: to know that it's a thing. And I think children
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 2: are fairly resilient and they learn. But the anxiety levels
• 1:50:30
  Speaker 2: of kids is much higher than ever before. Yeah, suicidal
• 1:50:33
  Speaker 2: ideations higher, self harm.
• 1:50:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'm a little My belief is that when
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 1: you're just fed of feed and and and the algorithm
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 1: of the social media company decides what you're going to
• 1:50:48
  Speaker 1: see next, it curbs your curiosity. And I don't I
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 1: don't think things that curb human curiosity should be encouraged.
• 1:50:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree.
• 1:50:58
  Speaker 1: And so if the app is designing a way where
• 1:51:02
  Speaker 1: it asks you what you're interested in and helps you
• 1:51:05
  Speaker 1: to come up and find things that that are very
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 1: related to what you're interested in, right, that's awesome. But
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 1: that's not how it works. It's literally like it starts
• 1:51:14
  Speaker 1: with something you start doing scrolling and then start showing
• 1:51:17
  Speaker 1: you what you just scroll, and then you end up
• 1:51:19
  Speaker 1: in an echo chamber. And that's not that's not necessarily good.
• 1:51:23
  Speaker 2: Well you can get trapped, Yeah, you can get I'm
• 1:51:25
  Speaker 2: in a trap of schizophrenics lately on the Instagram. But
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 2: it's just mostly schizophrenics, like people that tell me that
• 1:51:32
  Speaker 2: the rightful president of the United States and like you
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 2: tell the guy hasn't showered in days, and you know,
• 1:51:38
  Speaker 2: and if you have a phone, you can create an
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 2: account and you can just start uploading nonsense. And then
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 2: for whatever reason, I've watched a couple of them, so
• 1:51:45
  Speaker 2: now they just keep showing them to me.
• 1:51:46
  Speaker 1: And it's full of AI slob right now, a lot
• 1:51:49
  Speaker 1: of AI slop, Like it's it's not even clear and
• 1:51:51
  Speaker 1: it's not labeled also clearly, but whether it's being made
• 1:51:54
  Speaker 1: with AI or not so often, so essentially it's leading
• 1:51:58
  Speaker 1: to complete laws in trust where when I see something,
• 1:52:02
  Speaker 1: I don't even know if it's.
• 1:52:03
  Speaker 2: Real anymore, right, And it's gonna get worse.
• 1:52:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's gonna get worse to the extent that you're gonna,
• 1:52:08
  Speaker 1: like your default would be that this is a I
• 1:52:11
  Speaker 1: and then like you're gonna have to go through multiple
• 1:52:14
  Speaker 1: layers to finally verify if if it was real. And
• 1:52:20
  Speaker 1: and even like verified accounts post a lot of AI stuff,
• 1:52:23
  Speaker 1: so it's not it's not about like whether the account
• 1:52:25
  Speaker 1: is verified by matter or some or whatever. Right, So
• 1:52:29
  Speaker 1: I think fundamentally, I'm I I feel like, Okay, the
• 1:52:34
  Speaker 1: way I think about it is, what are pieces of
• 1:52:36
  Speaker 1: technology I did not exist would be a really bad
• 1:52:41
  Speaker 1: thing for the world, and water pieces of technology did
• 1:52:44
  Speaker 1: not exist wouldn't even matter. And and I feel like
• 1:52:47
  Speaker 1: social media is more towards the second. Yeah, like you know, uh,
• 1:52:53
  Speaker 1: searching for information and answering questions and like getting you know,
• 1:52:58
  Speaker 1: AIS to do things for you, help you learn new
• 1:53:01
  Speaker 1: things faster. All that stuff is some we need more
• 1:53:04
  Speaker 1: of that, but because it super charges our curiosity, whereas
• 1:53:09
  Speaker 1: like brain rot feeds with AI SLOB doesn't actually supercharge
• 1:53:13
  Speaker 1: our curiosity. It actually curbs our curiosity. And so if
• 1:53:16
  Speaker 1: we believe that, if you believe in the curiosity premium idea,
• 1:53:21
  Speaker 1: we need to encourage things that supercharge our curiosity and
• 1:53:24
  Speaker 1: discourage things that curb our curiosity.
• 1:53:27
  Speaker 2: Do you anticipate a time where we recognize the dangers
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 2: of algorithms and there is some discussion to either curb
• 1:53:36
  Speaker 2: them or allow people to have control over them in
• 1:53:40
  Speaker 2: a real meaningful way, like you could dictate maybe through AI,
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 2: and that there's an AI interface to your algorithm that
• 1:53:47
  Speaker 2: understands your particular emotional needs, your curiosity, Like, only show
• 1:53:51
  Speaker 2: me this, this is what I'm interested in, carpentry and
• 1:53:54
  Speaker 2: basketball games, show me those things I don't want to see.
• 1:53:58
  Speaker 2: Who's getting divorced? I don't give we'll talk about this.
• 1:54:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so here's the thing you can still customize on
• 1:54:05
  Speaker 1: most of these social apps, you know, if it'll be
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 1: deeply buried somewhere in the setting somewhere and you can
• 1:54:12
  Speaker 1: can go and say stuff. But the reason it's buried
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 1: is because once you you always have to say it,
• 1:54:17
  Speaker 1: or like it's the starting entry point for your experience. There,
• 1:54:21
  Speaker 1: your engagement time would go down because once you consume
• 1:54:23
  Speaker 1: the content that you really want, you would go back
• 1:54:26
  Speaker 1: to your work, which is what you really need to
• 1:54:27
  Speaker 1: be doing. But that doesn't help them sell more ads,
• 1:54:31
  Speaker 1: and so the incentives are not aligned. And so Elon
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 1: has this really good metric he talks about where it's
• 1:54:39
  Speaker 1: like a total amount of unregretted minutes spent on the
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 1: app should go up. It's hard to measure. It's hard
• 1:54:47
  Speaker 1: to measure. It's more like a inspirit the right metric.
• 1:54:52
  Speaker 1: But this metric is also why it's hard to make
• 1:54:54
  Speaker 1: money on ads if you care about this metric, which
• 1:54:56
  Speaker 1: is why X doesn't really make a lot of money
• 1:54:58
  Speaker 1: on ads compared to you know, Instagram or YouTube, because
• 1:55:04
  Speaker 1: you're kind of like optimizing for interestingness like doesn't mean
• 1:55:08
  Speaker 1: excess everything. Right, there's a lot of chaos, there's a
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 1: lot of memes, there's a lot of like weird shup
• 1:55:13
  Speaker 1: going on there as well. But in general, social media
• 1:55:17
  Speaker 1: is not necessarily like great for people.
• 1:55:20
  Speaker 2: I think it's terrible for people. But it also provides
• 1:55:23
  Speaker 2: you with a way better understanding of what's going on
• 1:55:27
  Speaker 2: in the world than has ever existed before.
• 1:55:30
  Speaker 1: X X, particularly X particularly because it's it's a place
• 1:55:34
  Speaker 1: for like discourse. It's it's a text based app more
• 1:55:37
  Speaker 1: than a video based app, right, so naturally, like people
• 1:55:43
  Speaker 1: tend to engage in discussions and debates, and you know,
• 1:55:45
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of curious debates going on there and
• 1:55:47
  Speaker 1: a lot of interesting viewpoints expressed by people. So I
• 1:55:51
  Speaker 1: think in terms of the unregraded minutes, it's actually one
• 1:55:53
  Speaker 1: of the better social media apps. But apps that are
• 1:55:56
  Speaker 1: purely based on like video are or images and largely
• 1:56:02
  Speaker 1: video these days, I think that's just you know, just
• 1:56:05
  Speaker 1: trying to get your eyeballs in time.
• 1:56:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, those are the mind numbers. Yeah, they just numb
• 1:56:10
  Speaker 2: your mind.
• 1:56:10
  Speaker 1: It's depressing when you can go to a metro and
• 1:56:12
  Speaker 1: you just see people just scrolling through their feed nobody.
• 1:56:16
  Speaker 2: Everybody doing it. You look the entire car, everyone's doing it.
• 1:56:19
  Speaker 1: It's just insane.
• 1:56:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's weird.
• 1:56:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:56:22
  Speaker 2: I always say that if there was a drug that
• 1:56:23
  Speaker 2: existed and made people stare at their hand for six
• 1:56:25
  Speaker 2: hours a day, everybody'd be like, get that out of here. Yeah,
• 1:56:28
  Speaker 2: but that's essentially what we're doing because like most of
• 1:56:31
  Speaker 2: what people are looking at most of the time, they
• 1:56:33
  Speaker 2: don't even remember. Yeah, they're just scrolling through this thing.
• 1:56:36
  Speaker 1: Brain rot. It's just brain rot. It curbs your curiosity. Yeah,
• 1:56:39
  Speaker 1: I mean Apple has these settings in different apps. Have
• 1:56:42
  Speaker 1: you tried this? What you can set the timer for
• 1:56:46
  Speaker 1: every app?
• 1:56:46
  Speaker 2: No? I just use discipline. I don't. I don't engage
• 1:56:50
  Speaker 2: very much anymore. A very dip my toe into X
• 1:56:54
  Speaker 2: every day for a few seconds, like what's everybody mad at?
• 1:56:58
  Speaker 2: What's going on? Who's dole this? Who have much corruptions here?
• 1:57:03
  Speaker 2: Who got killed there? Okay? By and then I just
• 1:57:06
  Speaker 2: check out. I don't want to do it. And Instagram
• 1:57:10
  Speaker 2: to me is just nonsense. It's I just look at
• 1:57:13
  Speaker 2: that every now and then for nonsense and occasionally something interesting. Really,
• 1:57:17
  Speaker 2: YouTube is my main go to thing because YouTube is
• 1:57:20
  Speaker 2: my most unregretted minutes. YouTube for me, is always interesting.
• 1:57:25
  Speaker 2: There's always like some cool thing on cosmology, there's some
• 1:57:29
  Speaker 2: in I watch fights on YouTube. I watch professional pool matches.
• 1:57:34
  Speaker 2: That's what I do for the most part. That's where
• 1:57:37
  Speaker 2: I really like find my actual interests and fulfill my curiosity.
• 1:57:41
  Speaker 1: Long form content is what human minds should be trained
• 1:57:45
  Speaker 1: to consume more of, whether it's books, whether it's like
• 1:57:48
  Speaker 1: you know, yeah, thirty minute videos explaining something mm hm,
• 1:57:52
  Speaker 1: and you need to train your mind to actually complete it.
• 1:57:55
  Speaker 1: That's actually the biggest problem of the younger generation. The
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 1: more there are the reels experience in short form video, uh,
• 1:58:02
  Speaker 1: they're unable to actually like complete like long videos anymore.
• 1:58:06
  Speaker 2: That's true. But also at the same time, the rise
• 1:58:09
  Speaker 2: of podcasts is happening.
• 1:58:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's great. It's great.
• 1:58:13
  Speaker 2: So there's it's not it's not universal. It's like there's
• 1:58:16
  Speaker 2: a lot of people that don't find fulfillment and all
• 1:58:18
  Speaker 2: the dooms calling and all the nonsense, and they really
• 1:58:20
  Speaker 2: do want.
• 1:58:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm particularly just focused on the younger generation. I'm
• 1:58:25
  Speaker 1: sure like people like us can adapt, Like, Okay, let's
• 1:58:28
  Speaker 1: say maybe you have a temporary addiction to social apps
• 1:58:30
  Speaker 1: and you can.
• 1:58:30
  Speaker 2: But a lot of the young people are the people
• 1:58:33
  Speaker 2: that like I meet kids like at the mall that
• 1:58:35
  Speaker 2: are eleven that listen to my podcast?
• 1:58:37
  Speaker 1: Really?
• 1:58:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Wow, I know it's nuts. They go, I know
• 1:58:40
  Speaker 2: if your podcast, Oh, lets you listen, get out of here. No,
• 1:58:46
  Speaker 2: I'm always joking around about it. But that's really cool.
• 1:58:48
  Speaker 2: But no, there's a lot of like, particularly young boys
• 1:58:51
  Speaker 2: that come up to me all the time that are
• 1:58:53
  Speaker 2: interested in it.
• 1:58:54
  Speaker 1: That's amazing.
• 1:58:55
  Speaker 2: I love it. I love it because then they're gonna
• 1:58:57
  Speaker 2: get exposed to some interesting ideas and it'll all also
• 1:59:00
  Speaker 2: encourage them to have those kind of conversations with each other.
• 1:59:03
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, whose podcast do you listen to?
• 1:59:08
  Speaker 2: I loved Tim Dillon's. He's probably my favorite because it's
• 1:59:11
  Speaker 2: the most accurate and also satirical and hilarious view on
• 1:59:17
  Speaker 2: everything that's going on in the world in terms of
• 1:59:20
  Speaker 2: like war and world news and culture shit. And he's
• 1:59:25
  Speaker 2: my favorite. He was just on here yesterday. I fucking
• 1:59:28
  Speaker 2: love that guy to death. He's so funny, he's so crazy.
• 1:59:31
  Speaker 2: It's like his mind works in such a unique way,
• 1:59:35
  Speaker 2: and it's developed because his podcast is different where he
• 1:59:38
  Speaker 2: very rarely has guests, so most of the time it's
• 1:59:41
  Speaker 2: just him ranting and his producer laughing. And he's the
• 1:59:44
  Speaker 2: best ranter that's ever lived. I don't think there's anybody
• 1:59:46
  Speaker 2: that's even close. He's the goat, Like there's like, I
• 1:59:50
  Speaker 2: don't think there's any argument. Every comedian agrees, like as
• 1:59:53
  Speaker 2: far as like just the ability to just sit in
• 1:59:55
  Speaker 2: front of a microphone and rant, like Bill Bird does
• 1:59:58
  Speaker 2: it well, he's good at it. There's a few other
• 1:59:59
  Speaker 2: guys that a good at it. No one's as good
• 2:00:01
  Speaker 2: as a tim He's the most consistently entertaining. And then
• 2:00:06
  Speaker 2: for just mine, not mindless, but like to escape. I
• 2:00:10
  Speaker 2: listen to a lot of archery shows and hunting shows
• 2:00:13
  Speaker 2: where they're talking about different tactics and hunting or different
• 2:00:18
  Speaker 2: techniques and archery, new equipment and new innovations. Archery is
• 2:00:23
  Speaker 2: an interesting thing because every year bow manufacturers make a
• 2:00:27
  Speaker 2: better bow and like tiny little engineering changes of these bows,
• 2:00:34
  Speaker 2: like it's a weapon that's been around for who knows
• 2:00:38
  Speaker 2: how many thousands.
• 2:00:39
  Speaker 1: Of years, but what the you're able to feel those?
• 2:00:42
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you feel the difference. Every year Hoyite Pult
• 2:00:45
  Speaker 2: puts out a new bow, and every year I'm like, motherfucker,
• 2:00:48
  Speaker 2: they did it again. It's better. So just tiny changes,
• 2:00:52
  Speaker 2: less vibrations in the hand, more balanced in the shot,
• 2:00:56
  Speaker 2: you know, more forgiving in terms of accuracy. I love
• 2:01:01
  Speaker 2: that stuff. So I get really fascinated by engineering, really
• 2:01:03
  Speaker 2: fascinated by automotive engineering. I'm really interested in Like that's
• 2:01:08
  Speaker 2: another thing where like every year people figure out to
• 2:01:10
  Speaker 2: make a car that can hold more g's on a
• 2:01:14
  Speaker 2: skid pad, that can get around a track quicker, Like
• 2:01:17
  Speaker 2: every year they're battling to see who can get around
• 2:01:19
  Speaker 2: the Nurburgring quicker. And what are they doing. They're adding horsepower,
• 2:01:22
  Speaker 2: increasing suspension travel and suspension tuning rather and making them
• 2:01:28
  Speaker 2: more compliant or making them stiffer and making them more adjustable,
• 2:01:32
  Speaker 2: and then like tire compounds. And I'm just interested in
• 2:01:37
  Speaker 2: anything that where someone's working on something and getting better
• 2:01:41
  Speaker 2: at something or getting new information. I love history podcasts.
• 2:01:45
  Speaker 2: I listen to a bunch of history podcasts. So that's
• 2:01:48
  Speaker 2: most of the time when I'm if I'm listening to something,
• 2:01:51
  Speaker 2: I either want to be entertained or I want to
• 2:01:53
  Speaker 2: be educated educational.
• 2:01:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and that's entertaining. Yeah.
• 2:01:57
  Speaker 2: What about you? What kind of stuff do you listen to?
• 2:02:00
  Speaker 1: To your stuff? I listened to Lex There's this guy,
• 2:02:03
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know you might you had him on
• 2:02:05
  Speaker 1: like recruiting of course.
• 2:02:06
  Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, yeah, I love that guy.
• 2:02:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, he's he's awesome. I listened to his stuff,
• 2:02:12
  Speaker 1: and I mean I also watched like some interesting videos about,
• 2:02:17
  Speaker 1: you know, stuck concepts I don't understand. There's this YouTube channel, Veritasium.
• 2:02:23
  Speaker 1: You should check it out. What is it called Veritashium.
• 2:02:26
  Speaker 1: How do you spell that v e r I t
• 2:02:30
  Speaker 1: A s e u M Veritashian?
• 2:02:33
  Speaker 2: What does it mean?
• 2:02:34
  Speaker 1: I think someone's name. No, veritas just means like seeking
• 2:02:38
  Speaker 1: truth kind of thing. Oh yeah yeah yeah yeah.
• 2:02:43
  Speaker 2: Okay, twenty point nine million subscribers. Yeah, a lot of
• 2:02:48
  Speaker 2: people agree.
• 2:02:49
  Speaker 1: So they make all these very interesting videos about like
• 2:02:53
  Speaker 1: stuff that you know you would be curious about, but
• 2:02:56
  Speaker 1: you never actually bothered to ask that or learn more
• 2:02:59
  Speaker 1: about and explain. Some of the most under understood companies
• 2:03:05
  Speaker 1: are like Phenomena, and I just love watching it, you know.
• 2:03:10
  Speaker 1: I'm this is kind of like my idea of doing scrolling,
• 2:03:12
  Speaker 1: Like I like, I like watching like downy videos at once.
• 2:03:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm going to subscribe to it right now. It's
• 2:03:18
  Speaker 2: pretty cool, very tassy. There it is, got it subscribed. Bam.
• 2:03:27
  Speaker 1: It explains all these like fun concepts that are you
• 2:03:31
  Speaker 1: know you take it for granted, like okay, why is
• 2:03:34
  Speaker 1: Google Maps really fast? Like okay, it'll tell you what's
• 2:03:37
  Speaker 1: going on. How the data is used across so many
• 2:03:39
  Speaker 1: different people at once and all these.
• 2:03:41
  Speaker 2: Different CIA's new tech doesn't make sense exactly. We were
• 2:03:46
  Speaker 2: just talking about that yesterday. We were doubting it. You know,
• 2:03:49
  Speaker 2: the heart murmur thing. Do you know about that? No,
• 2:03:52
  Speaker 2: So the pilots that were downed in Iran, they said
• 2:03:56
  Speaker 2: that they have this technology that allows them. I think
• 2:04:00
  Speaker 2: they could use it up to seventy miles and they
• 2:04:03
  Speaker 2: can detect a very unique heart rate, like your heart
• 2:04:07
  Speaker 2: rate is different than my heart rate. They could know
• 2:04:08
  Speaker 2: it's you. You could be hiding in the mountains and
• 2:04:11
  Speaker 2: they can find you from seventy miles away with technology. Wow,
• 2:04:15
  Speaker 2: a lot of people.
• 2:04:15
  Speaker 1: Like beams or ves or something, and.
• 2:04:18
  Speaker 2: Well it's called what is it called quantum magnetometry. Is
• 2:04:21
  Speaker 2: that what they call it? I think that's what it was.
• 2:04:25
  Speaker 2: Remember we looked it up yesterday. I think they're using
• 2:04:28
  Speaker 2: the word quantum and not explaining what they're doing, like
• 2:04:31
  Speaker 2: how they're doing it, And you're like, okay, is that
• 2:04:34
  Speaker 2: real or is this some invented horseshit to cover the
• 2:04:39
  Speaker 2: fact that they have some very sophisticated satellite imagery where
• 2:04:43
  Speaker 2: they can have a detailed map of literally the entire
• 2:04:45
  Speaker 2: surface of the world. They know exactly where people are.
• 2:04:47
  Speaker 2: But they don't want our enemies to know that they
• 2:04:50
  Speaker 2: have this capability, so they're making up something.
• 2:04:53
  Speaker 1: I see.
• 2:04:53
  Speaker 2: That was my suggestion yesterday. They're like, maybe they're full shit,
• 2:04:57
  Speaker 2: because the whole thing seems nuts. What is it called?
• 2:05:00
  Speaker 2: You got it? It's quantum magnetometry. I mean, you tell
• 2:05:04
  Speaker 2: me now, I don't know exactly. So this guy he's
• 2:05:08
  Speaker 2: saying it doesn't make sense. Yeah, and a lot of
• 2:05:10
  Speaker 2: people say it doesn't make sense, like it doesn't seem
• 2:05:12
  Speaker 2: to vibe with anything that we know that we can do.
• 2:05:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, first time I'm hearing it.
• 2:05:18
  Speaker 2: See the pull up This description the official description of
• 2:05:23
  Speaker 2: what this stuff is capable of. So this is supposedly
• 2:05:25
  Speaker 2: some very advanced CIA tech that allowed them to locate
• 2:05:30
  Speaker 2: this down pilot. Interesting maybe or maybe there's something else
• 2:05:36
  Speaker 2: going on, or maybe there's some of their methods that
• 2:05:38
  Speaker 2: they use they don't want the enemy to know about.
• 2:05:41
  Speaker 2: Maybe some beacon these guys have on them.
• 2:05:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess what's the incentive for CIA to actually
• 2:05:47
  Speaker 1: describe how their technology works.
• 2:05:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Zero, Why would they tell you that, Why would
• 2:05:51
  Speaker 2: they tell you they even have that? That's crazy.
• 2:05:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:05:54
  Speaker 2: And then Jamie had a good point.
• 2:05:55
  Speaker 1: The capability is insane detecting your heart rate seventy miles
• 2:05:59
  Speaker 1: awasis wow, insane?
• 2:06:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah. How And when they throw the word quantum in things,
• 2:06:04
  Speaker 2: I was, hey, what happened with that White House announcement? Sorry,
• 2:06:08
  Speaker 2: I keep yeah, the member there's Q news coming soon.
• 2:06:14
  Speaker 2: And then they like Q sounds for quantum.
• 2:06:18
  Speaker 1: Is that what it is? I thought they just announced
• 2:06:20
  Speaker 1: a bunch of investments in a bunch of quantum companies.
• 2:06:22
  Speaker 2: Maybe that's it.
• 2:06:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, IBM was getting some funding or whatever.
• 2:06:27
  Speaker 2: Mm so this quantum magnetometry, can you pull up a
• 2:06:32
  Speaker 2: description of what it is? I started looking up. Sorry,
• 2:06:35
  Speaker 2: I ask you to any questions at the same time.
• 2:06:38
  Speaker 2: Quantum sensor help rescuers. Yeah, so this is it ghost Yes,
• 2:06:44
  Speaker 2: that's what it's called. Purported surveillance technology utilizes long range
• 2:06:49
  Speaker 2: quantum magnetometry. What is that? Quantum magnetometers measure extremely faint
• 2:06:55
  Speaker 2: magnetic fields, including the body's natural electromagnetic signals, by tracking
• 2:06:59
  Speaker 2: changes in the energy states of atoms or subatomic particles.
• 2:07:03
  Speaker 2: What technology reportedly uses microscopic defects and synthetic diamonds When
• 2:07:10
  Speaker 2: illuminated by a laser. These centers are hypersensitive to tiny
• 2:07:14
  Speaker 2: magnetic fluctuations the heart signal. While human heart beats produce
• 2:07:18
  Speaker 2: a magnetic field is extremely weak around fifty to one
• 2:07:21
  Speaker 2: hundred pico teslas and typically degrades over very short distances.
• 2:07:28
  Speaker 2: So the ghost Bermer deployment, they reportedly use ghosts Burmer
• 2:07:32
  Speaker 2: during emission in southern Iran to pinpoint the location of
• 2:07:35
  Speaker 2: a down American airman using hiding rather in dense mountainous terrain.
• 2:07:40
  Speaker 2: By mounting these quantum sensors into a helicopter, the system
• 2:07:44
  Speaker 2: purportedly registered the pilot's heartbeat from afar. Okay, does that
• 2:07:50
  Speaker 2: sound like war shit?
• 2:07:52
  Speaker 1: I mean, it doesn't sound full of shit, but like, basically,
• 2:07:55
  Speaker 1: the part that sounds surprising to me is how they're
• 2:07:57
  Speaker 1: able to deal with all this distance and attenuation across
• 2:08:01
  Speaker 1: the distance, right, and all those interference And they claim
• 2:08:04
  Speaker 1: to use AI for that, but nothing is really described
• 2:08:06
  Speaker 1: on how they use.
• 2:08:07
  Speaker 2: It, right, So if they're not describing how they use it,
• 2:08:10
  Speaker 2: why they've been telling us they have it.
• 2:08:12
  Speaker 1: Why so, like there's a lot of scyptosystem on it.
• 2:08:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, laws of physics. Physicists point out that the heart's
• 2:08:19
  Speaker 2: magnetic field is a million times weaker than the Earth's,
• 2:08:23
  Speaker 2: Detecting it at a range of miles rather than centimeters
• 2:08:26
  Speaker 2: defies currently published peer reviewed physics. Alternative explanations suspect that
• 2:08:33
  Speaker 2: while quantum sensors were likely on board, they were probably
• 2:08:35
  Speaker 2: tracking the radio waves of a survival beacon, the metal
• 2:08:40
  Speaker 2: in the pirate pilot's equipment, or using traditional thermal, infrared,
• 2:08:44
  Speaker 2: and radar capabilities, rather than detecting a raw heartbeat via
• 2:08:47
  Speaker 2: magnetic fields.
• 2:08:48
  Speaker 3: As I do remember seeing a different part of when
• 2:08:52
  Speaker 3: that story happened back in April, someone did report on
• 2:08:55
  Speaker 3: like one of the military websites that there was a
• 2:08:57
  Speaker 3: survival beacon that they used to track them.
• 2:09:00
  Speaker 2: The whole quant or stuff is like nonsense. Yeah, no,
• 2:09:03
  Speaker 2: one wants to report that because it's not fun, right, No,
• 2:09:06
  Speaker 2: the ghost murmur thing is awesome fun and if that
• 2:09:09
  Speaker 2: is real, Like, boy, you can imagine a world one
• 2:09:13
  Speaker 2: hundred years from nowhere that is real, So it's exciting.
• 2:09:16
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, A hundred years is a long time for
• 2:09:17
  Speaker 1: this to be real.
• 2:09:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, one hundred years, they probably got it down pat.
• 2:09:22
  Speaker 2: Then that's the problem. You can't hide from the robot
• 2:09:24
  Speaker 2: dogs from Black Marr.
• 2:09:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah you know.
• 2:09:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Do you ever while you're working in a do
• 2:09:32
  Speaker 2: you ever wonder like, is this the downfall of humanity?
• 2:09:37
  Speaker 2: Is this a good thing to be worked on? Did
• 2:09:39
  Speaker 2: you ever have like doom moments?
• 2:09:42
  Speaker 1: Not on specific things I'm working on, but in general,
• 2:09:47
  Speaker 1: I do worry about, like how much you know you
• 2:09:50
  Speaker 1: You obviously want to like stay in charge and you know,
• 2:09:54
  Speaker 1: be in control of your experience, still be the one
• 2:09:58
  Speaker 1: driving change, and have a lot of agency for yourself.
• 2:10:01
  Speaker 1: So I do worry that, Like it's all about like
• 2:10:04
  Speaker 1: making sure everybody is up skilled and understanding like where
• 2:10:07
  Speaker 1: the future is headed and not being like fed only
• 2:10:13
  Speaker 1: like dangerous apocalyptic messages. And because it's very essential that
• 2:10:18
  Speaker 1: human beings retain their agency and staying curious, right, Like,
• 2:10:21
  Speaker 1: So if that stops being the case, if you start
• 2:10:24
  Speaker 1: subscribing to the vision that Okay, our jobs are done,
• 2:10:26
  Speaker 1: you don't really have any meaning in the world, and
• 2:10:28
  Speaker 1: we'll pay you some dividends and you just sit at
• 2:10:30
  Speaker 1: home and chill, that is not a good thing. So
• 2:10:34
  Speaker 1: and I feel like they are not enough voices in
• 2:10:36
  Speaker 1: AI that are actually saying anything different to that. And
• 2:10:40
  Speaker 1: I like, like when Jensen was here, I think he
• 2:10:42
  Speaker 1: was a little different. I think he tried to give
• 2:10:44
  Speaker 1: a more positive version where he said, okay, like the
• 2:10:51
  Speaker 1: radiologists thing. If okay, all radiologists can take away, you know,
• 2:10:54
  Speaker 1: they start doing different kind of work. So I think
• 2:10:57
  Speaker 1: we need to start looking at like, okay, like okay,
• 2:11:00
  Speaker 1: first of all, guys, relax, you have a lot of
• 2:11:02
  Speaker 1: you have one freemium skill, your curiosity. So let's figure
• 2:11:05
  Speaker 1: out ways to channelize that. Let's change the way work
• 2:11:08
  Speaker 1: is done in companies, Let's change the way educational institutions run,
• 2:11:11
  Speaker 1: Let's change the incentive structures, and let's help you build
• 2:11:15
  Speaker 1: new ideas and new companies and explore things that are
• 2:11:18
  Speaker 1: not even being considered. And the government should, obviously, like
• 2:11:21
  Speaker 1: you know, support all these initiatives. So that's what needs
• 2:11:24
  Speaker 1: to happen more. But what's happening actually right now is okay, like, hey, guys,
• 2:11:30
  Speaker 1: you're all losers. You're going to lose your jobs, and
• 2:11:32
  Speaker 1: and don't blame me because I told you so, right
• 2:11:37
  Speaker 1: and and and and and still give us money because
• 2:11:40
  Speaker 1: we're still going to do it anyway, and so that's
• 2:11:43
  Speaker 1: what's happening more and I think we should stop doing that.
• 2:11:46
  Speaker 1: That's my opinion.
• 2:11:48
  Speaker 2: Well it is the problem is it's kind of a
• 2:11:50
  Speaker 2: self fulfilling prophecy. And if you tell people that they're
• 2:11:52
  Speaker 2: going to be a loser and you're going to yeah,
• 2:11:54
  Speaker 2: the life is over, they're going to think that way
• 2:11:56
  Speaker 2: instead of giving them an understanding of like, look, this
• 2:11:59
  Speaker 2: can open up new doors for you. And anytime there's
• 2:12:02
  Speaker 2: any sort of disruptive technology, there's always the fear that
• 2:12:06
  Speaker 2: it's going to go badly.
• 2:12:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:12:07
  Speaker 2: This was the case with the locomotive. This was the
• 2:12:10
  Speaker 2: case with when the printing press was invented, by.
• 2:12:15
  Speaker 1: The way, Like I did some research on this where
• 2:12:19
  Speaker 1: and the industrial revolution happened, People got new ideas, okay, Like,
• 2:12:25
  Speaker 1: for example, an industrial revolution happened. Who came up with
• 2:12:30
  Speaker 1: the idea of a steel flow? John Deere. Until then
• 2:12:33
  Speaker 1: we were using wooden flows to like for farming. No
• 2:12:36
  Speaker 1: farmer complained that, hey, like we need fewer farmers. Not
• 2:12:40
  Speaker 1: because steel flow is able to do it more effectively.
• 2:12:43
  Speaker 1: No one complained. You actually had more farms and more productivity,
• 2:12:47
  Speaker 1: more crop eels and you're happier.
• 2:12:49
  Speaker 2: But isn't that this a regular tool as opposed to AI.
• 2:12:53
  Speaker 1: Sure, AI is different. It's not overnight going to become
• 2:12:57
  Speaker 1: something that's capable of just learning an entire multi trillion
• 2:13:02
  Speaker 1: dollar company on its own. There are a lot of
• 2:13:04
  Speaker 1: things that AIS cannot do. There's a lot of tacit
• 2:13:06
  Speaker 1: knowledge in every company that AIS don't quite understand, and
• 2:13:10
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of new directions that you can just
• 2:13:12
  Speaker 1: start working on that AIS are not well equipped to
• 2:13:15
  Speaker 1: do because it doesn't have full knowledge about it, and
• 2:13:17
  Speaker 1: the knowledge about it is yet to be captured, and
• 2:13:20
  Speaker 1: some of that requires like human to human work and collaboration.
• 2:13:23
  Speaker 1: So we obviously have to gravitate towards what is scarce.
• 2:13:27
  Speaker 1: When AI makes the current labor that's considered scarce because
• 2:13:31
  Speaker 1: that's where the money is going in commodity, then we
• 2:13:34
  Speaker 1: have to gravitate towards what is scarce, and the only
• 2:13:39
  Speaker 1: way to do that is to seek things that we
• 2:13:41
  Speaker 1: don't know about, which is only something we can discover
• 2:13:45
  Speaker 1: through our curiosity. There's nothing else. Whatever we don't quite
• 2:13:49
  Speaker 1: understand well, whatever we don't know how to do well yet,
• 2:13:52
  Speaker 1: even with the current capabilities of AI. That's where we
• 2:13:56
  Speaker 1: should pull our labor and work for us into more
• 2:14:00
  Speaker 1: responsible messaging, and that's not quite happening right now.
• 2:14:05
  Speaker 2: I think it needs responsible messaging, and then in the
• 2:14:07
  Speaker 2: future what it needs is like real direction in terms
• 2:14:12
  Speaker 2: of like letting people find their curiosity and find these
• 2:14:17
  Speaker 2: paths of interest and find something to do with themselves
• 2:14:20
  Speaker 2: that doesn't involve whatever their previous occupation that's irrelevant now.
• 2:14:26
  Speaker 1: Hm, that's true. I think like passion for people is
• 2:14:30
  Speaker 1: something that not a lot of people will be able
• 2:14:32
  Speaker 1: to answer out of the out of the box. Like
• 2:14:34
  Speaker 1: if you go and ask them, what is your real passion?
• 2:14:37
  Speaker 1: And and and and the only thing they've known in
• 2:14:39
  Speaker 1: life is to just climb up career ladders and make
• 2:14:42
  Speaker 1: more money. That's going to actually take them a while
• 2:14:45
  Speaker 1: to even discover.
• 2:14:47
  Speaker 2: And which is why it's so important to get kids
• 2:14:49
  Speaker 2: off on the right star.
• 2:14:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's the hope. That's that's our hope for
• 2:14:53
  Speaker 1: the future is the kids. The kids are bond curious.
• 2:14:56
  Speaker 1: They don't need to change themselves to be curious. Right
• 2:15:00
  Speaker 1: The adults who probably already are like because of this
• 2:15:03
  Speaker 1: knowledge work thing, who kind of curb their curiosity and
• 2:15:07
  Speaker 1: try to fit into the existing system. It might be
• 2:15:10
  Speaker 1: a little hard for them to adapt. But the kids,
• 2:15:12
  Speaker 1: I think they don't have this problem. So I'm actually
• 2:15:16
  Speaker 1: optimistic about the future long term because the future is
• 2:15:19
  Speaker 1: all centered around like whoever is like very young today.
• 2:15:22
  Speaker 2: What do you think about this idea that the universal
• 2:15:25
  Speaker 2: basic income is going to be required some form.
• 2:15:28
  Speaker 1: Of it is good. It's like a dividend. I almost
• 2:15:31
  Speaker 1: think of it as a dividend if a lot of
• 2:15:34
  Speaker 1: spend that most companies are currently doing today on like payroll,
• 2:15:39
  Speaker 1: which is paying a knowledge worker for a certain task.
• 2:15:42
  Speaker 1: Think of knowledge work is basically taking information and transforming
• 2:15:45
  Speaker 1: it into an artifact, right, and it's messy and complicated.
• 2:15:50
  Speaker 1: Let's assume that's being done by AIS. So obviously companies
• 2:15:54
  Speaker 1: will start spending more on compute instead of payroll. It's
• 2:15:58
  Speaker 1: just a reallocation of like spend budget, similar to what
• 2:16:01
  Speaker 1: happened in advertising industries, where most of your advertising budgets
• 2:16:05
  Speaker 1: went to like television and like billboards and then now
• 2:16:08
  Speaker 1: it's starting to go to Google and Instagram and YouTube
• 2:16:10
  Speaker 1: and all that. So when that happens, obviously, like the II,
• 2:16:18
  Speaker 1: companies are going to make a lot of money, and
• 2:16:21
  Speaker 1: people who helped be part of creating it or either
• 2:16:25
  Speaker 1: directly or indirectly, would want to have some role to
• 2:16:28
  Speaker 1: play in that ecosystem. And a good way to involve
• 2:16:32
  Speaker 1: them is through giving them some ownership in the company.
• 2:16:35
  Speaker 1: So as shareholders, if you get dividends from the profits
• 2:16:38
  Speaker 1: generated by the AIS, it's not a bad thing. But
• 2:16:42
  Speaker 1: that's that shouldn't be the only thing, right, So.
• 2:16:45
  Speaker 2: This is similar to like people that live in Alaska,
• 2:16:47
  Speaker 2: they get a check because.
• 2:16:48
  Speaker 1: Correct Alaska, Alaska. Alaska does this, and it's not a
• 2:16:51
  Speaker 1: bad thing as long as they are doing some other
• 2:16:54
  Speaker 1: things alongside.
• 2:16:57
  Speaker 2: It could lessen the burden, correct.
• 2:17:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And and and if people are interested in still
• 2:17:02
  Speaker 1: being part of the AI industries, they go do things
• 2:17:05
  Speaker 1: that as are not able to do today. And that's
• 2:17:08
  Speaker 1: that's been the case before, Like when industrial revolutions started,
• 2:17:12
  Speaker 1: the United Kingdom actually started like like like projects around
• 2:17:16
  Speaker 1: building railroads, and that gave a lot of people who
• 2:17:19
  Speaker 1: are in the cottage industries new jobs. So there are
• 2:17:23
  Speaker 1: going to be a lot of new projects to just Okay,
• 2:17:26
  Speaker 1: like what if we want to reimagine the government itself
• 2:17:28
  Speaker 1: where the government runs largely on AI.
• 2:17:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was my next question.
• 2:17:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so then we need people for that. Yeah, because
• 2:17:36
  Speaker 1: this is a legacy industry. It's not it's not about
• 2:17:38
  Speaker 1: the capability is not being there. It's about working through
• 2:17:42
  Speaker 1: the legacy and bureaucracy to like actually deploy and implement
• 2:17:47
  Speaker 1: this inside the most like largest institutions in the country.
• 2:17:52
  Speaker 1: And that's going to need a new set of skilled
• 2:17:56
  Speaker 1: workers to go do that. So some people who might
• 2:17:58
  Speaker 1: be working at Microsoft or something today, i'd actually end
• 2:18:00
  Speaker 1: up working for the United States government because Microsoft may
• 2:18:05
  Speaker 1: not need them, especially for like you know, internally deploying
• 2:18:08
  Speaker 1: AI or selling AI to their customers, but the government
• 2:18:10
  Speaker 1: needs them. And if the government can pay them well,
• 2:18:13
  Speaker 1: and it's a fulfilling job to find some meaning for
• 2:18:16
  Speaker 1: like doing something good for the country, it's not a
• 2:18:18
  Speaker 1: bad thing. So I think, like, just like in the
• 2:18:21
  Speaker 1: Industrial Revolution where we had new projects because the demand
• 2:18:25
  Speaker 1: for AI was so big, We're going to start seeing
• 2:18:28
  Speaker 1: some new projects being created AI as well when the
• 2:18:30
  Speaker 1: capability is advanced enough that they can replace knowledge workers.
• 2:18:34
  Speaker 2: That's the rosy scenario.
• 2:18:37
  Speaker 1: It's not as roasy, like a real world is messy.
• 2:18:40
  Speaker 1: A lot of things are still done through trusting other
• 2:18:43
  Speaker 1: human beings, nobody is like blindly trusting AI. SAI still
• 2:18:47
  Speaker 1: make a lot of mistakes.
• 2:18:48
  Speaker 2: I know a lot of people are hesitant to the
• 2:18:50
  Speaker 2: idea of AI running government, and I get it, but also,
• 2:18:54
  Speaker 2: look at what the people are doing. Look at how
• 2:18:57
  Speaker 2: much corruption there is, how much fraud and waste. Imagine
• 2:18:59
  Speaker 2: if all fraud, waste and corruption was instantaneously eliminated.
• 2:19:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that was what Elon tried to do
• 2:19:07
  Speaker 1: with dot right. And then I think the bottleneck there
• 2:19:10
  Speaker 1: was just discovering how slow it is to do things.
• 2:19:14
  Speaker 1: He's not used to running that slow.
• 2:19:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And also how much resistance, Yeah, resistance so much
• 2:19:19
  Speaker 2: grift correct?
• 2:19:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So honestly, like more than AI, the government is
• 2:19:26
  Speaker 1: running a lot of legacy software stack because a lot
• 2:19:30
  Speaker 1: of these legacy enterprise companies just have created these multi
• 2:19:34
  Speaker 1: decade or like year contracts that are hard to get
• 2:19:37
  Speaker 1: out of, and the way they do that is to
• 2:19:39
  Speaker 1: sell it at a much larger discount. And like you know,
• 2:19:43
  Speaker 1: like if you're on like a specific OS, you're not
• 2:19:45
  Speaker 1: allowed to change this for like ten years. You have
• 2:19:48
  Speaker 1: to use the same set of software. All the people
• 2:19:51
  Speaker 1: you hired only know to use that tool, so it
• 2:19:54
  Speaker 1: takes time to actually change and implement new things leave
• 2:19:57
  Speaker 1: alone AI. Just if you just wanted to like move
• 2:19:59
  Speaker 1: everybody from win those machines to like mac machines, good
• 2:20:03
  Speaker 1: luck with that. It's going to take a lot of time.
• 2:20:05
  Speaker 1: That's the state of the system, and so that has
• 2:20:10
  Speaker 1: nothing to do with technology, and so to do things
• 2:20:13
  Speaker 1: in such messy systems, you still need people, still need
• 2:20:17
  Speaker 1: people to navigate all these changes. It's not about the
• 2:20:22
  Speaker 1: capability of technology, it's more about how the system is structured.
• 2:20:26
  Speaker 1: And that's why I still feel there will be new
• 2:20:28
  Speaker 1: jobs that maybe the you know, there's a lot of
• 2:20:31
  Speaker 1: new projects to be done. Maybe some good leader actually
• 2:20:34
  Speaker 1: wants to change the system and is willing to be
• 2:20:37
  Speaker 1: patient about it. Like you know, over five to ten
• 2:20:39
  Speaker 1: year horizon. If you take ten years to actually like
• 2:20:42
  Speaker 1: run majority of the government processes on AIS, it may
• 2:20:46
  Speaker 1: seem slow to you today, but in the grand scheme
• 2:20:48
  Speaker 1: of things, it's actually good for the country. And that's
• 2:20:51
  Speaker 1: still going to need a lot of nice engineers to
• 2:20:54
  Speaker 1: go work on these projects, so they're not going to
• 2:20:57
  Speaker 1: lose all their jobs. There's going to be some displacement,
• 2:20:59
  Speaker 1: there's going to be some new projects, there's going to
• 2:21:01
  Speaker 1: be new priorities, but it'll keep going. The system will
• 2:21:04
  Speaker 1: keep going because that is how historically things have been.
• 2:21:09
  Speaker 2: When you think about the future of AI and you
• 2:21:11
  Speaker 2: think of this, so what do you think about AGI
• 2:21:16
  Speaker 2: in particular, you think about something that could potentially make
• 2:21:20
  Speaker 2: better versions.
• 2:21:21
  Speaker 1: Of itself self replicating.
• 2:21:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and then how far does it go?
• 2:21:26
  Speaker 1: Like yeah, So that is the that is the ultimate
• 2:21:29
  Speaker 1: form of I think some people in Silicon value have
• 2:21:33
  Speaker 1: started calling that as ASI. So when you see the
• 2:21:36
  Speaker 1: word ASI being thrown around, like people kind of think
• 2:21:40
  Speaker 1: of ASI as an AGI that can recursively self improve itself.
• 2:21:45
  Speaker 1: So that's going to be on that's going to be
• 2:21:47
  Speaker 1: no limits to how smart can get right. And I
• 2:21:52
  Speaker 1: used to think that ASI is bottlenecked by power because
• 2:21:57
  Speaker 1: you need a ton of compute for this model to
• 2:22:00
  Speaker 1: keep on training itself and running its own rollouts and
• 2:22:03
  Speaker 1: collecting data and then going and updating itself. But you
• 2:22:07
  Speaker 1: could imagine that once the algorithm is correct, the ASI
• 2:22:11
  Speaker 1: could be tasked with just making itself more efficient too,
• 2:22:14
  Speaker 1: where improvement doesn't just mean capability improvement. Improvement could also
• 2:22:18
  Speaker 1: mean power efficiency. And that way the as recursive safe
• 2:22:23
  Speaker 1: ASI that is improving itself also makes itself more compact
• 2:22:27
  Speaker 1: and more efficient, and it can run on less compute.
• 2:22:30
  Speaker 1: So that would be the ultimate project in AI. Think
• 2:22:33
  Speaker 1: of it as almost as a last project in AI
• 2:22:35
  Speaker 1: is basically cracking recursive self improvement. Once you crack that,
• 2:22:38
  Speaker 1: you don't have anything else to work on. In practice,
• 2:22:42
  Speaker 1: I think what's going to happen is because information is
• 2:22:46
  Speaker 1: so muddled and fragmented and living in disjoint systems, just
• 2:22:50
  Speaker 1: the way we have constructed our MESSI real world, it's
• 2:22:53
  Speaker 1: going to be hard to point even a recursively self
• 2:22:55
  Speaker 1: improving AI at some metric and say go improve this,
• 2:22:58
  Speaker 1: or I go reduce inflation by five percent. That'll be
• 2:23:02
  Speaker 1: awesome if you can task an AI to do that.
• 2:23:04
  Speaker 1: If that's the job of the government to just reduce inflation,
• 2:23:07
  Speaker 1: have a deflationary effect on society, and make make goods
• 2:23:11
  Speaker 1: and services a lot more abundant and efficient, it's going
• 2:23:15
  Speaker 1: to have to deal with a lot of messy legacy systems.
• 2:23:18
  Speaker 1: If the task is to go improve the healthcare, we're
• 2:23:20
  Speaker 1: good luck, Like, who's going to deal with all the
• 2:23:23
  Speaker 1: compliance of actually implementing these changes inside hospitals. Most hospitals
• 2:23:29
  Speaker 1: are still using legacy software, because that's the software provider
• 2:23:33
  Speaker 1: has lobbied the government in a way where only they're
• 2:23:36
  Speaker 1: allowed to do that.
• 2:23:37
  Speaker 2: God, what a stupid bottleneck exactly.
• 2:23:39
  Speaker 1: So a lot of the bottlenecks in actually having AIS
• 2:23:44
  Speaker 1: just take over and massively improve the human society and
• 2:23:47
  Speaker 1: our hospitals or legal systems, our government systems where most
• 2:23:52
  Speaker 1: of the payrolls going into it's just bottling by a
• 2:23:55
  Speaker 1: lot of compliance and regulation. And so that's why I
• 2:23:59
  Speaker 1: feel the human beings are still necessary to affect the change,
• 2:24:04
  Speaker 1: because these laws and regulations were built for us.
• 2:24:08
  Speaker 2: And it also seems like we have to demand that
• 2:24:10
  Speaker 2: those systems be usurped.
• 2:24:12
  Speaker 1: Sure, and we need the help of AIS to rewrite
• 2:24:15
  Speaker 1: all these laws. It's going to be humanly impossible to
• 2:24:18
  Speaker 1: go and change one specific line here and there.
• 2:24:22
  Speaker 2: Right, and then you're going to have a bunch of
• 2:24:23
  Speaker 2: these software companies that are lobbying to try to stop
• 2:24:25
  Speaker 2: that from having.
• 2:24:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's why, like this messiness and this need for
• 2:24:32
  Speaker 1: getting all people on the same page and actually steering
• 2:24:34
  Speaker 1: the society in a positive way, our jobs will probably
• 2:24:38
  Speaker 1: be more steered towards that problem solving at a different
• 2:24:41
  Speaker 1: level of abstraction, maybe more need for EQ, more need
• 2:24:45
  Speaker 1: for actually like understanding differences of opinion, and still like
• 2:24:50
  Speaker 1: a leadership quality, ability to understand people and ability to
• 2:24:56
  Speaker 1: convince people. These these these are the skills that will
• 2:25:00
  Speaker 1: be even more important in the world where like actual
• 2:25:02
  Speaker 1: work can be done by AIS, but affecting the change
• 2:25:06
  Speaker 1: in our society in our country still needs human beings
• 2:25:11
  Speaker 1: because the systems are messy.
• 2:25:15
  Speaker 2: It's a weird world we're in right now. Yeah, it's
• 2:25:18
  Speaker 2: never been weird.
• 2:25:19
  Speaker 1: That said, there's a lot of things that can still
• 2:25:22
  Speaker 1: go wrong when you give power so much power to
• 2:25:27
  Speaker 1: you know, like specific companies, and they deploy all these
• 2:25:30
  Speaker 1: bots and then anybody can use them in weird ways.
• 2:25:35
  Speaker 1: You don't even know if like you're talking to a
• 2:25:37
  Speaker 1: real person anymore. They're like people who just run AI
• 2:25:41
  Speaker 1: responses in Chi, like five hundred people at once, and
• 2:25:44
  Speaker 1: that's like an whole business. And so I think it's
• 2:25:49
  Speaker 1: gonna it's gonna take a lot of adjustment.
• 2:25:52
  Speaker 2: Well, the other piece of adjustment that a lot of
• 2:25:54
  Speaker 2: people are coming to grips with is that this is
• 2:25:56
  Speaker 2: a new part of our conversation and that in twenty twenty,
• 2:26:00
  Speaker 2: like when I first moved here. AI was never discussed.
• 2:26:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was not a thing.
• 2:26:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean we knew about it, We knew about AI, yeah,
• 2:26:07
  Speaker 2: but it wasn't like it wasn't a huge part of
• 2:26:11
  Speaker 2: the cultural discussion of what the future holds for us. Yeah.
• 2:26:15
  Speaker 2: Now it is.
• 2:26:15
  Speaker 1: Now it is central.
• 2:26:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and in that short amount of time, in just
• 2:26:19
  Speaker 2: six years. It really makes you wonder because we know
• 2:26:22
  Speaker 2: how technology progresses exponentially, what it's going to look like
• 2:26:26
  Speaker 2: six years from now.
• 2:26:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah. The twenty twenty eight like you're definitely My prediction
• 2:26:31
  Speaker 1: is twenty twenty eight election debates are going to be
• 2:26:33
  Speaker 1: largely about AI.
• 2:26:35
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 2:26:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, AI, energy crisis, the power power that people are
• 2:26:43
  Speaker 1: going to care about.
• 2:26:44
  Speaker 2: All these things.
• 2:26:46
  Speaker 1: Because AI is no longer a thing that is new.
• 2:26:49
  Speaker 1: It's part of all our lives. Everyone's using some form
• 2:26:52
  Speaker 1: of AI in some ways, and it's not as dangerous
• 2:26:57
  Speaker 1: as people thought. It's an amazing tool for like doing
• 2:27:00
  Speaker 1: work and asking questions and learning things and all.
• 2:27:02
  Speaker 2: These things when used correctly.
• 2:27:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, can also be used incorrectly, like everything, like everything,
• 2:27:10
  Speaker 1: so it's far more powerful that incorrect usage can cause
• 2:27:13
  Speaker 1: serious damage, like like, for example, people kids who are
• 2:27:17
  Speaker 1: using AIS for like companionship. Crazy things are happening there.
• 2:27:22
  Speaker 2: Crazy things are happening good.
• 2:27:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's even it's it's as dangerous or probably
• 2:27:27
  Speaker 1: more dangerous in social media. And it's also scary that
• 2:27:31
  Speaker 1: social media companies want to build more of these kind
• 2:27:34
  Speaker 1: of like companionship apps because they know that, Okay, their
• 2:27:39
  Speaker 1: only job is to get you engage more, and that's
• 2:27:42
  Speaker 1: the only way to sell more ads and make more money.
• 2:27:44
  Speaker 1: And clearly companionship is a way to get you engaged more.
• 2:27:49
  Speaker 1: And so that's dangerous if ads start being part of
• 2:27:52
  Speaker 1: like AI chats, yeah, because then if that that ends
• 2:27:57
  Speaker 1: up working, then all these at ad bots is going
• 2:28:00
  Speaker 1: to be sickophants that just tell you stuff that you
• 2:28:05
  Speaker 1: you want to hear.
• 2:28:06
  Speaker 2: It's also it's an indistinguishable, indistinguishable facsimile to a real person.
• 2:28:11
  Speaker 2: Like they communicate like a real person, right, so you
• 2:28:14
  Speaker 2: really think you have a relationship with this.
• 2:28:16
  Speaker 1: Right and and and it truly screws with your mind.
• 2:28:21
  Speaker 1: It's hard to like d couple and like it takes
• 2:28:23
  Speaker 1: a lot of time to recover if you want to
• 2:28:24
  Speaker 1: like you know, unplug. And so the business model incentives
• 2:28:30
  Speaker 1: are not the line to humanity.
• 2:28:31
  Speaker 2: Did you see that AI companion that they developed that
• 2:28:36
  Speaker 2: was at the Consumer Electronics Show in Vegas this year,
• 2:28:39
  Speaker 2: which one it's like a hot Asian lady I see.
• 2:28:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, these are these are the weird kind of projects
• 2:28:45
  Speaker 1: that are going on.
• 2:28:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it's a hot Asian lady that talks to you. Yeah,
• 2:28:49
  Speaker 2: and you know she talks to you through AI. And
• 2:28:52
  Speaker 2: right now it's just a kind of a crude sort
• 2:28:54
  Speaker 2: of robot. But yeah, you can see where it's going.
• 2:28:57
  Speaker 1: You can see where it's going.
• 2:28:58
  Speaker 2: X Machina, Yeah it's going yeah right there. Yeah.
• 2:29:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that movie was amazing, right far ahead of his time.
• 2:29:06
  Speaker 2: Really, Yeah, that was That's one of my top ten
• 2:29:09
  Speaker 2: favorite movies of all time.
• 2:29:10
  Speaker 1: It's underrated actually because people, like reviews on online say
• 2:29:14
  Speaker 1: it's not as good. But I liked it.
• 2:29:16
  Speaker 2: I loved it. Yeah, I thought it was fantastic.
• 2:29:18
  Speaker 1: Like it better than her?
• 2:29:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah her, I lost her after a while. I shut
• 2:29:23
  Speaker 2: it off. I lost my attention. I'm sure it's good.
• 2:29:26
  Speaker 2: It was a wrong time for me to watch it. Yeah,
• 2:29:28
  Speaker 2: but X Monck and I've seen it like five times.
• 2:29:31
  Speaker 2: I fucking love that movie. It's just so I don't
• 2:29:34
  Speaker 2: want to give anything away, but it's it's so incredible
• 2:29:37
  Speaker 2: and so bleak and so yeah, in the relationship that
• 2:29:41
  Speaker 2: he has with the hot one. Yeah, you believe it.
• 2:29:45
  Speaker 2: You're like I, I'd be right there with him.
• 2:29:47
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 2:29:48
  Speaker 2: It's too confusing to our system to have something that
• 2:29:50
  Speaker 2: looks exactly like the thing that you desire, that is
• 2:29:53
  Speaker 2: actually interested in you. It just happens to be. Yeah,
• 2:29:57
  Speaker 2: knows too much about you, knows how to pull your strings. Yeah, yeah, listen, man,
• 2:30:02
  Speaker 2: very fascinating discussion.
• 2:30:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm glad we did it.
• 2:30:04
  Speaker 2: Thank you very much. Thank you so much, and thanks
• 2:30:06
  Speaker 2: for having an awesome platform. Perplexity has been great. We
• 2:30:09
  Speaker 2: really loved using it here at the show. It's made
• 2:30:12
  Speaker 2: the show more interesting. It's cool.
• 2:30:13
  Speaker 1: Thank you. It's very fulfilling because, like we want the
• 2:30:16
  Speaker 1: app to be used by curious people like that if
• 2:30:19
  Speaker 1: we want to lift the ceiling of what are our
• 2:30:23
  Speaker 1: population can be. You know, not everyone's like fully curious
• 2:30:27
  Speaker 1: all the time, but we're all bond with it, so
• 2:30:29
  Speaker 1: at some point in time the system curbs it from us.
• 2:30:32
  Speaker 1: So that should be more appsate get us back to
• 2:30:35
  Speaker 1: what we're naturally good at.
• 2:30:36
  Speaker 2: It's a fascinating tool for technology or for curiosity rather
• 2:30:39
  Speaker 2: because to be and it's seamless the way we use
• 2:30:43
  Speaker 2: it on the show, because there's always a question. Yeah,
• 2:30:45
  Speaker 2: there's always it comes up so often like throw it
• 2:30:48
  Speaker 2: in perplexity, let's find out what's up. Yeah, So it's
• 2:30:50
  Speaker 2: been great for us. So thank you, thank you. All right,
• 2:30:53
  Speaker 2: my pleasure. Bye, everybody.