Latest / After Maghrib 🌙 / Blindly Being Shia (Ft. Mohammed Ali Muraj)

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Blindly Being Shia (Ft. Mohammed Ali Muraj) · After Maghrib 🌙

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All the black men shed online on James Milad Rahman Rahim respect
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to Brahms this is Welcome back to the Aftermarketed podcast.
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Whether you're listening or whether you're watching on
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YouTube, it's a pleasure to be back here with you again.
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Hope you're doing well. And Sharla, We've had some
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really interesting discussions. But today we want to talk about
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blind following, fake news and critical thinking.
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Do we believe everything we hear?
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Do we trust people too easily? Are we too gullible as a
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community, as a generation of follows of the Alibeit Alima
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Salaam? And what about our predecessors?
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What about the time the holy Prof Mohammad Salahu Ali, who I
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live as Salem? How did he turn a community of
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people who were uneducated and ill informed to a community of
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believers and enlightened souls? This is a fascinating
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discussion, a lot to unpack. But before we get into it, my
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beautifully eloquent cohost says I live all the way, so
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are you keeping safe? I'm not sure about eloquence.
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That's no Marsh Online. I hope I make sense when I talk,
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always do, I'm OK, I'll buy in. Is fast approaching.
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So we are I guess in preparation whether we're here or whether
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we're in the Holy Lands. I guess it's important for us to
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be bunches of of the the importance of of this blessed
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day, a blessed season. So yeah, just trying to try to
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make the most of it. And joining us today, brother
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sisters, we are very lucky, very honored to be joined by dear
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friend Marshall Law, a very, very eloquent person as well a
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dear brother Muhammad Ali. Mirageslam Alikum or Alikum
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Salaam Wakam Salah. Again, not sure where the
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Eloquents King comes from. No martial law.
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You've been inspiring communities kind of around the
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world for the last few years, but your first time on the Off
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Market podcast, so thank you for being here.
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It's a, it's. A pleasure and a privilege to be
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here. Thank you.
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And thank you for driving down as well.
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How's How's the journey to London?
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For a Friday night it was a very good journey.
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Empty roads for the M1 so I'll handle the account compound.
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We seem to have a lot of love for the people of Leicester,
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said. I don't like of course was in
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Leicester he's he's a good friend of the podcast and was
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here a few weeks ago as well and handle a lot of all other
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previous guests have either come from.
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So it seems there's a lot of nor in your community.
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This particular topic, in terms of thinking critically and
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believing critically, it's something you and I talk about a
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lot as well. Saying why?
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Why do you feel such an important kind of conversation
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to have? So currently we're living in an
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age known as the information Age, right?
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So we're. Surrounded by loads of
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information, loads of data, loads of idea.
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And in the mix, you have the social media.
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A lot of the news that we receive are from algorithms,
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from TikTok and algorithms on Instagram and algorithms on
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Facebook, Twitter, etcetera. And these algorithms cater for
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you. So for example, in America, if
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you're a Democrat or if you're a Republican, these are how the
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algorithms will will affect you and these are the ways that
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you'll take on news. Similarly, if you're in living
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in the UK, these are your preferences, then the news that
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is. Fed to you is very, very
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personal and it knows exactly what you want to hear.
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And in such an age where we're just full of information at this
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point, just thinking a little bit openly, thinking a bit more
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freely, thinking analytically and critically becomes even more
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important. And now, for example, Imam
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Hussein Ali Selam, known as Abal Ahradha.
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Leader of the absolute free and then and again because of urban
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approaching as well. This topic is quite apt as well
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in trying to follow the footsteps from about Abdullah
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and trying to be that free thinkers on how he and his
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grandfather tried to liberate his own society.
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Because I think said we we find a lot of time especially we've
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had the blessing and honor to work within media and Shia media
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specifically for a few years. So I think we kind of maybe we
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were still on a journey of course, but we understand that
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it's important that people are receiving the right form of
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communication and are shown the right kind of guidance on on how
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to live daytoday life, but it's definitely something that we we
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think is important. Yeah, no, I, I, I call Brother
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Ali's words, you know, and I think people can fall into this
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trap where they just see anything and just follow it
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blindly. And I'm sure if we go back in
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history, we'll see like previous uprisings or, you know, meddling
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in political elections, things like that, where there is an
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effect. Of what is being put put out
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there. Because you can.
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The reality is you can be on the ground.
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Absolutely. I give you one example and I
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think many who have been Zara are buying.
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Coming up. Let's make this a reality.
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Yeah. What do you read and see about
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Iraq 24/7 on TV? Bomb explosion, terrorism, etc,
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etc. Go to Iraq.
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Go to Zara. You see nothing but love
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nothing. But, you know, safety.
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I saw you feel more, I feel more safe in Iraq than I do in the
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streets of northwest London. Let me just tell people, but
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that's how the media works. We are easily deceived.
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But I think this is the works of shape on.
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To be honest, it's like an attribute of shape on you know
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how he deceives us as Muslims? Same way can happen when it
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comes. But do you think sometimes we
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can be innocently ignorant in the sense that we may be so
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blissfully ignorant about what's going on around us?
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Or is it a case where sometimes we believe things too easily,
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especially at the time? For example, you talk about the
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Holy Prophet, Muhammad's Allah I live with.
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A lot of people didn't believe in his message.
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But also you talked about, you know, the mission of Mark saying
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and his grandfather. People also changed and people
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obviously took time. How easy is it to do that?
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And do you feel like sometimes we might be ignorant without
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even knowing? I think.
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You hit, you hit it on the name and you said blissfully
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ignorant. Because sometimes we're just
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happy with getting whatever information we receive without
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questioning it, without challenging it, right?
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And if TikTok or if Instagram tells me this is what it is,
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then I'll happily accept it rather than question the source
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or why is it that he said so, or what is he trying to get at?
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So I think there are two dynamics.
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We are, I think, potentially just happy.
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To receive whatever we do. But it would also stop
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questioning it. And I think that's where the
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problem comes, where you're just being fed, for example, the
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media or the media of before. However, it is when people say
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something, I think there should be this question that comes in
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the mind. Is it credible?
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Yeah, right. Is it true?
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Verify. It do I?
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Can I verify it exactly? And I think this this is, and it
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doesn't come naturally right. We're kind of instinctively just
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accept whatever you've been given.
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Gullible. Is that the right word?
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Gullible. Potentially right and and you
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just accept whatever you get. And it's all about practice
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actually start cultivating this questioning mind.
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For example, and I know say you come from a very pure lineage,
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but if I was to take an example of myself, we're Corjas.
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Corjas. Yeah, so so many of the Corja,
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or people from the indoor park are reboots.
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In in into into the religion and and shout out to all of the
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reverts And I have friends that are reverts and I have like huge
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respect for them because they've actually studied thoughts about
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it, critically questioned their what their forefathers have told
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them and then chosen Islam as a religion.
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For example our forefathers 810 generations ago were all Hindus.
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Yeah right. And and they got to a point
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where the. Question themselves, actually.
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Am I in the right path? Right.
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And to be able to do that takes a lot of willpower and and just
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one person had to change and all of these generations later we've
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all kind of multiply. I was, I was thinking about the
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same phenomena. I was speaking to my wife a few
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days ago about this. Why or how did I last follow to
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Allah? Is it firstly I don't know maybe
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this is a question we can get into.
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Does that hedaya come from a lot or do we have to search it?
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Maybe we can talk about that. But you know that that that
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courage and that brave act of of that community leader for our
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community many generations ago. Well, that group of leaders
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meant that for generations. Now you have 300 + ± 1000 Khoja
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people around the world. And bro, you've got people who
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are doing wilaya every day. You know they were prosying rise
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of the Quran every day and that is such a Kajaria that will
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continue to our forefathers in Sharla mail a.
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Lot of community do amazing work by those panel line.
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You think that it all came down to one act of critical thinking,
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and it came down to the act of questioning, being brave enough
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to say, who am I? Why am I doing what I'm doing?
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And what Is there a better way to do things?
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Absolutely, absolutely. I think one one thing we need to
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kind of get into as well is when we talk about the the phenomena
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of of technology today and kind of journalism and media,
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something similar exists at the time of the Holy Prophet.
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So when the Sullah Muhammad came out solo Ali while of Salem and
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when he proclaimed Islam, he was proclaiming to a people then who
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were as we say people of Jahiliya.
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Now today we suffer from the journalism of the world like you
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mentioned. And in those days there was also
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journalism of those times and people maybe received the wrong
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information, the wrong news about the Holy Prophet's
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mission. How did he kind of transform
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people who would, as you mentioned to me very eloquently,
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the people who worship God's made out of dates and then eat
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their gods, OK, People who would bury their daughters alive as we
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hear so often. How did the last Final to Allah
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bring a prophet to these people? Why did he bring it to those
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people? And how did he can change those
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people's mindsets from one thing to another?
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Now you see, the beauty of the Holy Prophet is that he knew his
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people at a personal level, at a community level.
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Right Now, as as you alluded earlier, just imagine the people
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of Mecca, right? How much must a mind be
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stagnant? For you, as you rightly put it,
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to create a God out of dates, worship it, and when you feel
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peckish, eat from that God, right?
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How must your mind be stagnant for you to revolve around the
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holy car? By naked?
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How must your mind be stagnant for you to bury your newborn
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daughters alive? How must your mind be stagnant
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for you to go into wars? For the pettiest of reasons.
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Why? Because your tribal leader said
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so. You don't question it, right.
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And and when the Holy Prophet came to those people, he
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understood the method, community level.
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And these are the people of Makka for example.
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They had a God for nearly every day of the year. 360 gods,
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right? A God of War, God of love, a God
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of kids, a God of whatever, right?
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These are the people of Makka. And then you had the people of
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Medina, for example. Who most of them believed in the
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revealed religions of the previous prophets?
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Be it There was a lot of Jews. A lot of Jews, a lot of
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Christians, but you also had, for example, Zoratians and
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Sabians and other religions. Now the problem with the Medina
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community was that the religious people of the time, the priests
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and the rabbis, would use and abuse religion, right?
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What they would say is they would say that this has come
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from God. And so the people would be
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confused and they would just bring things out from their own
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pockets. And so the religion would be
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split. The people would be split.
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And this is what this was the problem of the people in Medina,
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they weren't able to critically think as to is this what God
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wants me to do. Whereas the people of Makka,
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like we said, were just intellectually stagnant, that
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they would bury the newborn daughters alive.
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And so this is where the genius of the Holy Prophet comes.
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And it's a very, very beautiful story that just.
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Shows the genius of the Holy Prophet.
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Now before I, I, I, I, I mentioned this narration, I'd
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like to kind of put a disclaimer through in the sense that it may
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come a little bit weird. Like really, is it authentic now
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and then, Hence this disclaimer. This tradition is actually the
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basis of the ficky jurisprudence rule that we have, that you
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cannot obey the creation. If this obeys the create tool,
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right. For example, we all know this
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from our parents that when it comes to our parents remain to
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kind of obey them except when it comes to disobeying the creator.
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For example, if your parents says don't pray then at that
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point of course you don't over your parents and and and there's
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a reason why I'm putting this disclaimer through now.
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This is the narration. The narration is that one of the
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tribes had recently converted into Islam into the fault of
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Islam. So the Holy Prophet says very
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well, he sends an ambassador, and these are the people that
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the Holy Prophet really wants to get them to think of it freely.
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So again, he he sends an ambassador through and he says
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he has a few instructions. He says fine, so he goes, He
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looks at the village, he looks at the tribe and he says, these
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are your instructions #1 dig a trench.
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So the tribes like Fine will obey whatever the Holy Prophet
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says will dig a trench. 2nd instruction Collect brush or
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collect dry leaves. Collect twigs.
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Fill this trench with this brush.
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Fine, very well. They do that #3 fill it with
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fire. And now there's a huge inferno,
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a blaze raging for the instruction.
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The Prophet says jump into this fire.
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Now here you have a few people thinking as it's an.
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Right. Half.
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Half the group is like, no, the prophet says, so we'll do it,
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right. The other half, no, this can't
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be what the religion of Islam wants from me.
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This can't be what's a merciful Lord a merciful prophet wants
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from me. And so there's a debate between
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these two groups of people. And the ambassador says, do you
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have to make it unanimous? If one jumps, then all of you
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jump. If no one jumps, no one jumps.
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Fine. So then after a huge debate they
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come to an agreement that fine actually we won't be jumping
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right and and this is the disclaimer I said so the
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ambassador comes to the Holy Prophet and he says look they
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refused to jump into the fire. The Holy Prophet, according to
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the narration, says if they had jumped into the fire by Allah
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they would have been raised with the fire on the Day of Judgment.
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Right. And and this is quite different
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to the story of for example, Imam Jafrasad de Kharun Maki
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Saharasani. Imam says to Sahal that go and
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sits into the oven. Right.
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And which is why I kind of put the disclaimer through this is
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the genius of the Holy Prophet. The holy prophets knew for a
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fact that these are the people that will just follow their
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forefathers. The Holy Quranswer Chapter #2,
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verse #170 says that they will just follow my their forefathers
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blindly and so for the Holy Prophet to take them out.
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Of this thinking had to really push them to an extreme measure
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right and make them think for themselves that is this what the
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Islam wants right and and and we have traditions from the Holy
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Prophet that says look if I say something, if a tradition comes
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to you in in Minna for example I think in the sermon of Minna he
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states that if a tradition comes to you.
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And it contradicts with the word of a lost panel to throw it
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against the wall. It's just not.
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It's nothing that I have said. And this was the genius of the
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only property to take those people of Mecca with stagnant
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minds and just bring them to an extreme situation and get them
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to think a little more freely. He did that of course through
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his his methods of Akhlaq and his propagate propagation he he
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embodied and exemplified all of the qualities that are needed to
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then present himself to people of ignorance and people of of
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backwards mentality such to get through to them.
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You know when we talk about I read something today which was
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that when the last one I told Moussa and they said I'm to go
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to Farhan, he told him approach him with kindness speak to him
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with kind words so and and this tweet actually was by Sheikh he
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mentioned so speak to your parents with kindness because
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they're not half as or nearly as bad as Farhan.
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That was of course, with that context, but it even shows that
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even with dictators, Holy Prophet approached him with
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certain a Clark and mentality with people of ignorance.
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And I want to ask you, how do we approach them today?
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So we live in a day and age where we're surrounded by
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xenophobia, slamophobia, racism, all sorts of counterproductive
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ideologies, ideologies that conflict with Islam and its core
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values. When we're faced with things
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like that in the workplace or day-to-day, how do we approach
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that sort of scenario? Is there a methodology or or a
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guideline on how we as followers of the other beta, the Hamas
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Salaam can conduct ourselves in such a way, not just us to
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incite the the situation but maybe even to educate through
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our Akhlaq just what I mean. No, absolutely.
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I think you hit it on the head when you said about the Akhlaq,
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because what we need to understand is.
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There is an idea that we may agree with or we may not agree
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with. Yeah, but then there is also
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that individual, right? And when we separate the idea
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from the individual, we understand that, yeah, we may
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have disagreements with that idea, but as an individual,
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we're all creations of a loss of Hanawata and you hit it on the
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net when you head when you said we still approves them with a
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clock, right? You never know.
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They may change. Like like like you mentioned a
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loss of Hanawata. Allah asks Moussa Allah his
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Salaam. Ilhab ila Ferrauna in the hotel
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go unto fear of a wearily he has transgressed, but at the same
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time speak to him softly. Maybe he might change right
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someone like your own. Or for example the Holy Prophet
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where where people were, where people had run away from the
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battle of Odd. Again, a lot of Bhanotalla says
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speak to them with a gentle word, with a soft word.
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Maybe they are remorseful and and I think you've said it.
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Eloquently that it all comes down to the clock.
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You separate the idea from the individual, and you still
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approach the individual with utmost humility, humbleness, and
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with a clock. And that's personally my 2
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pence. You know what can be examples in
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this day and age? Like if we have the examples of
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for all USA Rasa La La ho Ali who are asylum, how can we
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compare it to this day and age because a lot of people
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listening. I don't know about Pharaoh,
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Moses story, things like that. They're just living about here
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and now and facing the reality of fake news, for example.
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Can I answer that? Go on.
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Sorry to say it, but I was gonna say the world we live in is very
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complex because we're very conformist society.
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We live in establishments, we live in top down systems, big
18:19
pharma and big big media, all of that stuff.
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So it's a very tactical and strategic approach that we're
18:24
dealing with. So we work in a capitalist
18:27
society because that's what we're born and brought up to do
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and we live in a society that's that envisages us to live a life
18:32
like that. So like we talk about critical
18:35
analysis for us today, we might just be scratching the surface
18:39
of it where we're thinking, oh, doing a job that I don't like.
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Should I change my job? But bro, you're still thinking
18:45
within the parameters that societies give, still giving us,
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do you know what I mean? Like, but on a much deeper level
18:50
and why we always told to understand and to learn about
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the whole of the imam. It's because the imam, that's a
18:55
lot to Allah, father to Sharif well and Charlotte come and just
18:59
switch it up and he'll change everything.
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He'll reform everything. And the idea is that we can
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envisage that world from now and the only way we can do that as
19:06
if we understand what we're, what we're living in.
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Well, I fully agree with you like and that question because
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that's something maybe we don't do enough of, maybe we're not.
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We're not in the right frame of mind as a as a community of
19:18
youth or just generally to even approach it.
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So I would want to know as well, but how, where do we, where do
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we kind of begin today? I I recently read a journal
19:28
article by Scriven and Paul. Right.
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And and and I don't know who they.
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Are. No, I I don't know that either.
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And the university professors of behavioral and organization
19:40
science. Right.
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And they know what they're doing.
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So when I when I read that journal, they said that when it
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comes to kind of being able to question things, it's a
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collection of skills, a collection of habits that you've
19:51
got to start somewhere but start very smooth.
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And and when I was reading that article, I was thinking to
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myself, that actually bodes in really well to kind of.
20:01
The guys that go to gym, right when you start going to gym, you
20:03
don't need to start with triple digits.
20:05
You'll start from a really low number, double digit maybe and
20:09
build your way up. And similarly, what the
20:11
researchers are trying to say is actually when you start question
20:14
things for the same questioning things, it's more like it's a
20:17
habit that you develop, start from small, like you said,
20:20
scratch the surface, but you develop it a little bit further
20:24
there and then just give it more a little like.
20:27
And this isn't advice to myself, right?
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I need to kind of be a lot more critical.
20:33
I need to be a lot more analytical when it comes to
20:36
things. And when someone says something,
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how can I verify that information?
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And I just need to ask myself as much as I can, am I able to do
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the four finger test of Imam Ali here now right?
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And and and am I able to kind of verify whatever I hear from my
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ear and verify with my own eyes or?
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For those who are listening or maybe not seeing what you're
20:55
doing visually, can you explain what that what the hadith is or
20:58
what what you're doing So so once a individual comes to
21:01
mamalia, so I'm asking a series of questions.
21:04
One of the questions was what is the difference between truth and
21:06
falter? I mean what we mean eloquently,
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as eloquent as he is says 4 fingers right?
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And he says the difference between 4 fingers is the
21:14
difference between Hut and Bartle.
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And he explains himself. And he says that whatever you
21:20
hear, you must verify with your eyes.
21:22
Whatever you, whatever the news that comes into your ear, you
21:25
need to verify the source itself.
21:27
And so there's only four fingers between your ears and between
21:30
your eyes. So beautiful.
21:33
And it's a reminder we can do this all the time, you know?
21:35
Yeah. Something to think about so that
21:37
had it of course is so important something we can do today today,
21:40
but you know you mentioned about.
21:42
Asking me to do more critical thinking said, I want to ask
21:44
you, yeah, do you feel is dangerous to ask you many
21:47
questions? Because of course, we.
21:48
Was good. This was going to be my next.
21:50
Question really. To the brother.
21:51
And I was going to say, you know, as you were saying, you
21:53
know it's right. I know you have to be critical.
21:55
And I think the Quran emphasizes that you sort of have to, you
21:58
know, think as well. Yeah, you don't just take things
22:00
for granted. But sometimes if we keep asking
22:02
questions, are we going to be led astray, for example, as it
22:05
isn't shaped long gonna overtake us with the questions we ask?
22:08
Because sometimes we can ask, for example, is there a God?
22:12
Or we can ask where is God Like, there's different.
22:14
It can have the same meaning, but completely different.
22:17
You'll get a different answer. How can we know we're asking the
22:20
right question or we have the right critical mind to the
22:23
question that we're asking? Like how can we ensure it's not
22:25
Shaitlan and it's truly sincere from the heart and and me being
22:30
a student myself, not being an expert in in in the field
22:33
whatsoever. And if I was to reflect this
22:36
unto myself, I think one thing that I can be proud of and and
22:41
that's personally, is the religion that we have, is a
22:46
beautiful religion that encourages questioning.
22:48
Not many sects are able to encourage questioning.
22:52
Some would be like no, no, no, don't go into history, no, no,
22:54
no, They're going to this book. I think we follow religion,
22:57
especially the sect that not just gives you a right to ask
23:02
questions, but to ask as a responsibility to elevate the
23:07
status of our faith. And I know myself what my
23:10
question is. If my question is mischievous
23:12
and I know if I have an answer I need to get to already, then
23:16
that kind of answers it for myself.
23:18
But we follow religion that actually encourages questions
23:21
and the beautiful story that comes to mind.
23:24
And again, I mean to quote a verse and I think it's it's
23:27
important for me to kind of give references because I know our
23:30
viewers in a topic known as critical thinking would like to
23:33
kind of go and verify information.
23:35
So, so in sort of two verse #260, a last one, I mentioned
23:39
the beautiful story of Prophet Ibrahim Alai Salaam.
23:42
For example, Ibrahim Alai Salaam, he was a free thinker,
23:46
right? Imam Hussein Alai Salaam is
23:48
known as Abal Ahrar in the Art of Warfa is Aslam Maliki Awarifa
23:51
Ibrahim, a Khalila, right, a inheritor of Ibrahim.
23:55
Now the beauty of Ibrahim Alehi Saddam is not only that be
23:59
Muslims following, but Jews and Christians follow me.
24:02
He's the father of monotheism, and he would ask people.
24:06
He would encourage others to think freely.
24:08
He'll go to his village, break all of the idols, give the axe
24:11
to the biggest idol. When the village comes back,
24:14
that's. The first thing that came to my
24:15
exactly right. And then they'll be like, why
24:17
ask ask the idol, right. And they like, no, we can't ask
24:21
the idol. Then Ibrahim will be like, well,
24:22
if someone can't defend themselves, how Can you believe
24:25
them? Or for example, he'd kind of
24:28
follow the people that follow the stars as gods and he'd be
24:32
like, yeah, well, OK, find the guide is in the night time, but
24:35
during the daytime, where are they?
24:36
Can they really guide us? So this is Ibrahim encouraging
24:39
others to critically think. But in answer to your question,
24:43
where can we draw the line if we go to that verse that I quoted
24:47
to 60 of Surat al Bakra Ibrahim? In order to elevate the status
24:51
of his own faith, his own certainty asks a lost panel to
24:55
other question. Or what?
24:57
How is it that you're going to bring the dead back to life?
25:01
Allah says Karla Olam Tomin, do you not have faith?
25:05
Ibrahim says no, no, no. I have faith, but I want to
25:07
increase in my certainty. I want to increase in the faith
25:11
that I already have in you in the Yapine that I have right.
25:15
This is Ibrahim Ali. He said I'm we're talking about
25:17
the father of monotheism. He has his yapine.
25:20
But to go it, to do it a little like to go up a notch.
25:24
He's asking the loss of Han Otala to help him elevate his
25:26
own faith. So as long as so, So this is
25:29
again a reflection that I'd make myself and advice to myself that
25:33
as long as my intentions are sincere, then whatever questions
25:38
that I will ask will only lead me to the truth.
25:41
Or I think we need to ensure we're asking the right
25:43
questions. Because I remember the time
25:45
where at the time of Imamani and Matalib alias Salaam.
25:48
You know, when he famously said ask me, ask me before you lose
25:50
me, someone asked me a question. How much hairs do I have on my
25:53
head? So we have to be clever on the
25:55
questions that we want to ask. And the Sharla, you know, being
25:58
Shia, being the followers of the Hell Bates, we have the Quran
26:00
and the hell Bates Sharla. All questions are answered in
26:04
both of them. It's easy to to fall into either
26:09
side or to fall into the trap of asking for the sake of not
26:12
knowing what that knowledge is gonna do for you, or whether
26:14
it's knowledge that you need or knowledge that can be acquired.
26:16
Like we'll hear about sometimes topics on the member or
26:19
sometimes things which are maybe not of benefit to the people,
26:22
maybe it's not of not, you know, people don't need to hear about.
26:26
Topics which have been, you know, in in in controversy and
26:31
dialogue for hundreds of years and now brought to the layman in
26:33
the 21st century because then it may spur on questions for an
26:38
audience which may not be prepared for that and may put an
26:40
example into doubt. Do I really need to get into
26:44
this? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
26:44
No, There are areas within religion which are contentious
26:48
theological matters. OK, filkey matters, whatever it
26:51
might be. But people will, for example
26:53
bring them up in my opinion sometimes.
26:55
Can't bring things up to an audience who hasn't studied.
26:59
And when I say study, I mean extensively for a period of
27:01
decades at times. And even then, what's the
27:05
purpose? What's the goal?
27:07
Do you know what I'm saying? So if you're gonna ask a
27:10
question, I hope that the one who's brought that to you to
27:13
then the kind of the instigator of that question.
27:16
Understands that sometimes questions can be from a place of
27:19
genuine curiosity and a yearning to learn, but sometimes can be a
27:21
result of manipulation of a topic or may may not be like a
27:25
correct introduction to a topic. And then, for example, outside
27:29
of that, when we talk about our belief today, we are born and
27:33
brought up with scholars that we listen to and speakers that we
27:35
listen to, cultural practices, practices in our local community
27:41
centers, our societies at large, which we should question.
27:46
I'm not saying culture is bad, but question your culture
27:49
question does this bring me close to, alas mandala?
27:52
Is it halala halan? Is it mubbah?
27:54
Maybe. And at times you may be
27:56
surprised the answer that you'll receive.
27:59
And by the end of the day Imam Ali says famously alay Salaam.
28:04
Look for the truth, then follow those who adhere to the truth.
28:07
Don't look for the people. And then does that, does that,
28:10
do they fit within my parameters and my definition of truth?
28:13
You won't. You'll stay restricted with your
28:16
limited ideology. So yeah, in Charlotte we can get
28:19
to that. But it it takes a very brave
28:21
person, like you said, whether it's a Reva or just anyone who's
28:24
on the journey of enlightenment to stand up and to say.
28:29
Am I doing the right thing? Am I am I praying the right way?
28:32
Do I believe in the true religion as this practice I do
28:35
in Muharram, or is this practice I do in Ramadan?
28:37
Or is this practice I do after my son out?
28:39
Whatever it is, is these correct things for me to do?
28:41
Will it bring me closer to God? Am I doing it with with actual
28:45
pure recognition of my and my actions or not?
28:48
So yeah, like when you apply it to today's day and age, it's
28:51
definitely hard, but it's definitely needed as well.
28:53
Absolutely. I couldn't agree with.
28:55
You isn't Isn't it the job of scholars to ask these questions?
28:59
To us to ask, questions to ask. For example, you gave the
29:02
example of, of course, listen sitting down under the pulpit.
29:05
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That.
29:06
Question what they're saying Let.
29:08
Me give you an example, if you don't mind me saying, yeah, I'm
29:10
not going to. If if I'm going to, what is
29:12
this? What is a jurist?
29:13
What is a scholar? There are people who have
29:15
specialized in a certain field of education or theory for
29:18
decades. Presumably you get to a certain
29:21
level specializing in the industry.
29:23
That's your field. OK.
29:24
In the same way if I'm studying under a lawyer or a judge.
29:28
If there's a usually you have a circle of judges who are
29:30
discussing high level contract law and constitutional rights
29:33
and this and that, things which are way above my understanding.
29:36
I might be a first year student of law.
29:38
We talked about law before the podcast, but I might be someone
29:41
who just got an interest in law In the same way a lot of us
29:44
haven't studied Islam but we have an interest in it.
29:47
Am I fit to sit in a room with judges who have studied a
29:50
certain text or a manual for decades?
29:53
And for them to bring something to my attention, which I don't
29:55
even know where to begin to understand this, it would just
29:57
bemuse me. Thinking kicks in, right?
29:57
It will baffle me. Yeah, I'm not in that position
30:00
if I'm a football fan. Yeah, and I think I'll we
30:04
should. Liverpool should spend 110
30:06
million on Kisedo and not 20 million on Endo like we did
30:09
because we're we're crazy run football club.
30:11
But nonetheless. Exactly.
30:15
Yeah. But then if I sit in a room of
30:17
of financial directors. I don't know the ins and outs,
30:21
the intricacies of details, so I do think it's the job of
30:23
scholars to ask questions, but within the right circles.
30:27
And I think our responsibility as listeners is to ask the right
30:30
questions to our scholars, questions that are relevant for
30:32
our youth and even for our elders.
30:35
Maybe I'm maybe I'm being unfair.
30:36
I don't know. No.
30:37
No, I like the example you gave. And I and I and I, and I think I
30:40
I would agree with it when it comes to, for example, you know,
30:43
history, things like that. That's when you can question
30:45
sort of things. But it's like I pay the things
30:47
like that. Yeah.
30:48
Who am I to question these things?
30:50
Yeah, if we have scholars and they've spent their life work
30:53
into this field, I think we should honor them and respect
30:56
them for the work they do. Probably the scholars.
30:58
I'm not saying we don't respect them in your example.
30:59
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't think we are in the
31:02
position. We're not ready.
31:05
I say this generally speaking, but maybe our community
31:08
generally we're not as advanced as we should be intellectually.
31:12
Maybe we need that intellectual advancement to get to a stage
31:14
where we can engage in such discussions.
31:18
But you know that comes only as a result.
31:20
Like a saying of critical analysis, critical thinking, Ask
31:23
the right questions will then be prepared for for more surprising
31:26
answers and more guiding answers.
31:28
Shall I tell you what is the last question?
31:30
In this day and age, God was a man and was a woman.
31:32
But that's a conversation for another day.
31:35
Do you get the drift? Yeah, yeah.
31:37
That's the sort of questions people ask.
31:38
And now. And he tells you where society
31:41
is heading if people are questioning these sort of
31:44
things. That's why I'm not related a bit
31:45
to people start questioning what is a man and what's a woman?
31:49
Or are you gonna end up? Going to places you don't want
31:52
to go because you're going to go against what society really is,
31:55
what a law's laws are. So I think we've got to be
31:57
careful. Yeah.
31:58
What do you think mom and daddy about this point?
32:00
No I I I think you started a very kind of interesting sub
32:04
discussion on on what happens when as listeners or as scholars
32:09
how how do we engage with the two And I think it I must admit
32:12
it's quite it's very important to understand the audience
32:16
that's sitting there first and foremost are very intellectual
32:19
in their own ways. You have loads of professionals
32:21
sitting there, many students of the religion, many wishing to
32:24
learn more of the religion. But at the same time you've
32:27
you've mentioned that a judge might discuss something he may
32:32
say a sentence but for the first year student he may not know
32:36
where to start. Yeah.
32:37
And. And scholars between themselves
32:39
would have disagreements. Yeah.
32:40
And that's where the critical thinking comes You was beautiful
32:43
and that's and that's and that's the beautiful thing because the
32:45
mental. Courage.
32:46
Is that what you're appearing to?
32:48
Well, absolutely. Like even if you take the sudok
32:50
Sheikh sudoks and and and Sheikh aradhi is and.
32:53
Between the cast classical scholars, it never ended
32:56
absolutely. That's gorgeous.
32:57
Yes, that allows progression and advancement of our exactly and
33:01
I'm getting closer and closer to the truth, so.
33:04
So the idea is that, yeah, obviously the the the audience
33:08
is quite intellectual, but as a scholar you kind of try and
33:11
understand at which level to pitch it and which format, as
33:15
well as a Q&A might be a better format sometimes in order to be
33:19
able to open that discussion where if I'm going to be adding
33:23
something that's quite contentious, then maybe your Q&A
33:26
forum will be a better suited forum where people can ask me at
33:29
lengths. So you've spoken to communities
33:32
in the East and the West, yes. And you've been lecturing now
33:34
for a few years. Martial law For those who don't
33:37
know, please tune into Mohammed Ali's lectures.
33:39
Martial law. He's one of the most exciting up
33:41
and coming speakers in the West and being too kind.
33:43
We're really honored. To you have a YouTube channel?
33:47
You will often. How can how can we find your
33:49
your lectures? I must admit I I when I was in
33:52
kind of college or something I I started a YouTube channel then
33:55
but I haven't. When you visit Community, OK,
34:06
you're going. I think I've lost my credentials
33:58
back then, but many of the communities that I lecture at,
34:01
they upload undermining so so so they they upload the.
34:07
You've spoken in India. If I'm not mistaken, I have
34:10
volunteered in India. OK, fine.
34:11
So you visited communities in the east and in the West?
34:14
Now, when you, when you visit such communities or let's say
34:17
you're speaking to an audience, what goes through your mind as
34:20
someone who then holds the key to the next hour of what these
34:24
people hear, dozens of people? What goes through your mind in
34:27
terms of preparation? So So there's two ways I
34:31
approach this. Firstly I try to do that with
34:35
with many of the communities I go to, especially from Muharram,
34:38
given that I understand that this is a community that I may
34:41
not have gone to before. So I'd asked the president I
34:44
asked the community member that what are the topics that are
34:47
really kind of needed needed right And and they kind of
34:52
suggest a couple and and from the experience that I'd come for
34:55
example of already visiting a couple of communities, I'd
34:58
realize that maybe these are also the topics that may be
35:01
quite relevant to discuss and I'd try and kind of match the
35:04
two together and come up with a topical kind of majalis and and
35:08
don't even get me started on preparations.
35:10
It starts well months, months, months, months before Muharram
35:13
for example. So.
35:15
So I think personally that's how I approach it and I and and
35:20
there's different scholars that approach in different ways a lot
35:22
more experienced scholars as well that they'll just know
35:25
exactly what the issues of the community of the society are.
35:30
And and from my side I try and kind of ask if I can get a game
35:35
AS2AS2 it is. Interesting.
35:38
And maybe like, I mean, do you feel that there's ever backlash?
35:42
So when you bring up something, a topic, or even an approach to
35:46
a topic, let's say you're talking about something basic.
35:48
Music has hung up, for example. It's actually not basic at all
35:51
when you think about it, because there's so many ways to
35:53
construct it. Let's say you're talking about
35:55
something basic prayer five times a day.
35:57
Right. But the way you encourage people
35:59
to critically analyze that topic, maybe in such a way where
36:01
people may take offense, I'm not mistaken.
36:04
Have you ever experienced that? And yeah, how do you deal with
36:07
it? Absolutely.
36:09
And why? And this is one of the reason I
36:11
kind of gave a disclaimer before mentioning that narration is in
36:17
in a modulus format. Sometimes when you mention
36:19
something, it's easy to make yourself available during the
36:22
Baruch, right. And and that's where the kind of
36:25
audience will come. And that's where the main
36:26
modulus happens, by the way, right.
36:29
And the main modulus happens after the main modulus and and
36:32
and and those are the discussions that actually enjoy
36:36
because then it actually makes you think as well from the
36:38
others perspective. And I'm not talking about Al
36:40
Qaeda but something completely something different where an
36:43
individual may have a different perspective of life and they'll
36:46
kind of come approach you. You don't know them they don't
36:48
know you and it'll be a very open-ended conversation and and
36:52
those kind of quite quite enjoy and quite nice.
36:55
And I'd encourage those that are kind of members in the community
36:59
if there's if there is a visiting speaker and definitely
37:02
approach them after Taborook and trying to kind of build a
37:06
relationship with them because on night one you might just be
37:09
able to say Sal answer them but by night five, night 6 you'll be
37:12
able to kind of make that relationship and be like you
37:14
know that point that you mentioned.
37:15
Could you tell me a little bit more and chances are those
37:18
conversations are so much more powerful.
37:21
I have a question for you, said Ali.
37:23
Do you think our communities generally should be more open
37:26
and encouraging for people to ask questions?
37:28
Because sometimes those who ask questions might be labeled as.
37:32
Becoming misguided or going down the wrong path, or do you know
37:35
what I mean? Dangerous.
37:36
I think community should be open to this and you mentioned Q&A is
37:39
a bit earlier on when I was young, believe or not I used to
37:42
love Q&A is more than the lecture because half the time
37:45
whoever lost the questions, the question I had you know because
37:48
you all like, you know similar thinking similar minds similar
37:51
bringing you know similar. I think everything we have the
37:54
same questions but sometimes we're just too shy.
37:56
And I think if a community facilitates the opportunity for
37:59
its, you know. Members who are present at the
38:02
measures to stay behind and have a Q&A.
38:04
While we will answer so much questions the community has,
38:07
because sometimes we may have a question with shy to ask our
38:10
parents. Sometimes we may have a question
38:12
we're shy to speak with our friends, our colleagues, whoever
38:14
is. But when you're in the right
38:15
place at the right time and that's in this.
38:17
In a mosque in the husseinia with an island, we also asked
38:21
questions. Yeah, you would learn so much.
38:23
Yeah. And gain so much and share so.
38:25
This usually that informal environments good.
38:27
That's why on the pod on the podcast we try and be.
38:30
Semi informal, semi formal. And those who've been following
38:35
us for a while will notice like we've we've had Marshall Law.
38:38
People have different ilks, different type.
38:39
And I mentioned to you before the podcast, right?
38:41
People have different ideological backgrounds,
38:43
different cultures, different age groups, personalities.
38:46
We've had Marshall Law or Lamar who studied for decades and
38:50
we've had some of the youth join us on the podcast.
38:52
But I think it's very important to have a diverse range of
38:57
experiences to contribute towards a communal discussion.
39:00
Only then can you progress as a community, because otherwise you
39:04
are not representative of of communities at large.
39:07
So maybe we're getting a bit way late, but I think it's very
39:10
important like to focus on the fact that we are all individual
39:14
human souls with ambitions and challenges and problems and
39:17
perceptions and experiences and like.
39:20
Community at large is trying to progress forward, so maybe we've
39:26
got we have to support each other and we have to educate one
39:28
another. How to do that is obviously the
39:30
hard part, so. Yeah, must be some good
39:34
questions people have asked you that.
39:36
You're like that question is kidding.
39:38
Yeah, you don't have to give me a moment and OK, let me think
39:42
I'm. Gonna ask you a question, then
39:43
say it was was I. Told you're the king of
39:45
questions. Yeah, yeah.
39:46
Well, I can shut them up. I can shut them up.
39:49
I've got a question for you. Yeah, On of course, Arbayan is
39:52
approaching and of course we remembering in this in this
39:54
season that we we reliving Yomal Ashur when Imam Hussain and his
39:59
Salaam and his companions and his family were were brutally
40:02
slaughtered, martyred on the plains of Karbala.
40:04
I want to ask you, you know, in that moment when?
40:09
The companions of the Imam were going out.
40:11
Is there a companion which comes to your mind as someone who
40:14
critically thought what happened around them, maybe thought about
40:17
what am I doing, am I doing the right thing?
40:20
And then made a decision to go forward and join Huck.
40:24
I love the question, but can I answer it differently?
40:26
Yeah, there is. There is a point.
40:29
There's a time in our shore up where I don't follow that bus
40:32
any of the salata was allowed. You know when he goes to the
40:34
water to the river. And when he picks up the water
40:36
in his hands and for that moment he thinks, you know, how can I
40:40
drink? And Hussein is personal, you
40:43
know, those sort of moments when you think or even, you know,
40:45
before. I think it was at the time where
40:48
Imam Hussein set camp, you know, in Karbala there was a time
40:53
where they had access to water before it was blocked off from
40:56
them, where Imam and Hussein actually went to the water with
41:00
his horse. He was about to drink.
41:02
And he was like, for a moment he thought he was like, my horse is
41:04
thirsty. Let my horns drink 1st and then
41:07
he then he'll drink the water. Yeah.
41:09
Those sort of moments from carabella is tells you you know
41:13
you gotta think you need to be in the right state of mind to
41:16
have those sort of sort of questions that come to your mind
41:19
because someone else would just drink it.
41:20
Who cares that you have to have and live like you know, you know
41:24
and feel your mom and her saying and learn from your mom and her
41:28
saying to start having these right critical thinking way of
41:30
mind. I think you might know what I'm
41:33
thinking of when we talked about companions, but the story of
41:37
hope, yeah, is something which really strikes me as a classical
41:40
example of. Critical in general of an army.
41:43
Yes, the general the commander of one of the flanks of would
41:46
have been sat on until I lay. And how in the in the build up
41:51
to the day of Ashrallah he blocked the Imam and he knew the
41:54
Imam his makam and he asked the Imam to lead Salah.
41:57
He knew this is the daughter. This is the son of Fatim Zara
42:00
Sala, Malaya. And when he sought forgiveness
42:03
from the Imam, he went through that that battle, the internal
42:06
battle, that jihad internally. And then, of course, we hear he
42:11
turned his armor around. He and he thought about that.
42:15
Why turn your armor around? Because then it's obvious your
42:17
front side is unprotected and you're heading towards the Imam.
42:19
You're saying if you want to attack me, attack me.
42:22
I'm not here to fight you. That's why I'm telling about the
42:25
white flag exactly. Example, Yeah.
42:27
He lowered his head. He approached the imam.
42:29
He said you are the son of Fatima Zahara like Oscar
42:31
figures. But he thought that that we talk
42:34
about courage in that moment. Like there was courage, pure
42:36
courage. And that's why your mom said
42:38
your mother named you free. You're a free man and it's it's.
42:41
I think that is a great example, something you know Hard was not
42:46
Marsoon. It was a powerful example in the
42:48
last moment. Yeah.
42:50
Yeah. And.
42:51
And that's just wow, Yeah. I was thinking it was gender or
42:54
not, you know, he saw himself. Between heaven and health, is
42:57
there any other examples that you can think of?
42:59
Anything that strikes you and. And and well, the point you
43:02
mentioned about horror, the beauty of the story of Karbala
43:06
is the entire journey of Imam Hussein Alissa and we're
43:09
obviously approaching his urbanein was one that encouraged
43:12
critical thinking. Right.
43:14
There's the people of Sham. Just just.
43:17
Agreed to whatever more Avia and Yazid of the time would say.
43:21
And then the Islam, Islam rising against the status quo, rise
43:24
against the type and yeah, and and and and even to the bill of
43:29
our. Should.
43:29
I not only would have negotiations with Omar bin Saad
43:32
etc, but on the day of our shoulder, before the battle
43:36
commences, he spends hours upon hours talking to the.
43:42
Army there and saying look and he asks them, and one of the
43:46
beautiful sermons of Mamsin Ali Salaam is that he asked the
43:49
people that do you know of anyone that is a grandson of the
43:52
Holy Prophet in the East or the West?
43:55
Think about what you're about to do.
43:57
Think of the pros and cons and he speaks.
44:00
To the people of Iraq specifically, it's not even
44:02
talking to the people of Sharma at that time.
44:03
He's saying to the people if you have just think about what
44:06
you're about to do. You're the ones who've invited
44:08
me. Have I ever killed anyone of
44:10
from your people and and towards the other famous line is.
44:15
If you don't have any religion, if you do not fear in the Day of
44:19
Resurrection, there at least be free men, right?
44:22
And and it's not just Janabi Horale Islam that converted to
44:25
the camp of Mammasinis and them so many other people that
44:28
converted and went to the camp of Mammasinale Islam.
44:31
And and and the beauty of the message from Mammasinis Islam is
44:34
that it continues to encourage us to critically think about our
44:39
status quo and about our minds is up until today.
44:43
I think that's the beauty of how, you know, I've seen a
44:45
little. I'm just propagated the way he
44:47
did and the mom and moms and Islam.
44:50
His initial mission from beginning until his final moment
44:54
was objective truth of Allah spawns Allah.
44:56
He talks about the Reformation of the Dean of his His
44:58
grandfather was Allah Muhammad Solalawa Ali who Ali Assalam and
45:02
when he talked about to Mohammed bin Hanafia, we talked about
45:05
this the beginning Marma, the encouragement.
45:09
He says. I'm not going to take up arms,
45:11
I'm not going for entertainment or play.
45:13
I'm going to reform the Dean of my grandfather and to reform the
45:17
community of my grandfather and imam.
45:21
His whole mission was that. And even when we talk about the
45:24
sermon of say the sermon of mom so John, both in Kufa and Sham
45:28
in both instances in both locations, you know these
45:32
sermons were given with the intention to allow reflection
45:35
for those around because people at the time didn't know what was
45:37
happening kind of blah. You know we're talking 2-3 days
45:40
after Asha RA they arrived in Kufa at that point you know
45:45
people and and they they're not going to know what's the latest
45:47
news a week or 10 days after that they were in Sham.
45:51
At that point people in Sham are not going to know.
45:52
And when he when the mom Sujad said we talked about this in the
45:55
mom sujad podcast and he says to the people who who are these
46:00
verses about versus will. I I thought here all of this
46:04
stuff he says I we are Ali Mohammed he's asking them
46:07
reflect on it. You know all the majalists that
46:10
began from Imam Sajadli Islam say the zenith and his Salaam
46:14
even Bibi almost Benin when she was afar she was still
46:17
conducting his majalists and the whole concept of the origin of
46:21
majalists was reflection and and also the emotion they go hand in
46:25
hand. In this season, Charlotte, we
46:27
can be amongst the followers or Hussein Les Salaman.
46:30
We can we can yearn to like find enlightenment through our
46:35
thought process as well as our action.
46:38
That's very important. Is anything you wanted to add
46:40
before we wrap up? Well, I I wanted to kind of go
46:42
back to you. So go back to your questions and
46:46
and we all love that's the community of Australia and it
46:48
kind of reminds me. A modulus that I recited and I
46:52
had actually mentioned the same narration that that I gave had
46:56
given so many disclaimers right at the beginning of of of our
47:00
kind of podcast which never. Removed the disclaimer.
47:06
And I think at that point the community kind of one or two
47:09
individuals came and and kind of gave me the examples of Saal
47:12
Kharasani, Mam Jafar, Sadik and kind of, But this is what we
47:15
have in our books and I had to kind of explain to them that we
47:17
also have this in our books that show the genius of the only
47:20
prophet. And kind of just how the Holy
47:23
Prophet brought people to the centrality of their faith,
47:25
sometimes taking people to the extreme and just getting them,
47:29
pushing them to think freely. What community was that in
47:32
Australia? The Sydney Community Imam Hassan
47:34
Center sound like very smart individuals.
47:37
Very, very smart individuals and stuff as.
47:39
Well, absolutely. May Allah continue to bless them
47:41
in all of the communities around the world.
47:43
I mean. I mean.
47:44
What's one question that comes to your mind?
47:47
Well, you know me, I've got questions and phone questions.
47:49
What do you mean the questions? Something that's critical, like
47:51
if you want that scenario, now I'm gonna give you a bad
47:54
scenario. Let's say you're sitting right
47:56
now beside them and say Alice is standing.
48:00
What is one question you will ask him?
48:01
We'll. Spend 115 minutes a day.
48:05
I'm not gonna ask him a football question for sure.
48:08
God, I really don't. Cuz when you're next to certain
48:10
personalities or certain environments, you have to ask
48:12
the right question, I think. I think, I think when you're
48:14
amongst, I mean to put me on the spot, it's hard saying I'd
48:17
probably need like a month to prepare.
48:19
No, no. Yeah, really.
48:20
I mean, probably I'd ask for advice.
48:23
I wouldn't probably. Ask you Yeah, yeah, What would
48:24
your question be? I wouldn't know because I mean
48:29
you could ask him anything, but what would be the point of
48:31
wasting a question like you said when the when the man told the
48:34
mom I leave? How many years before I got my
48:36
head? Bro, what's going through your
48:37
mind, you illiterate guy, like you know what I mean?
48:40
You'd ask the the say it respected, say it something
48:43
which is of value and potentially to be honest, you'd
48:45
ask him for it. I would ask him for advice and
48:47
let him say what he feels is best.
48:49
Maybe I'll tell him like about my my very very very brief
48:54
summary of me and what would you advise me, you know?
48:57
Advice for the aftermath of podcast Yeah, I have to be a
49:02
good father. How to be a good Motman.
49:03
How to be a good husband. How to be a good son.
49:05
That's nice. I mean, just advice.
49:06
Maybe I don't know what by you. I don't know, to be honest.
49:10
I don't know. I can't think on the spot.
49:11
We use one each. We'll share him.
49:13
Come back to me. Come back to me.
49:14
Come back to me. I think unless if I'm going
49:17
through at the moment, I think leaving it open, yeah, at that
49:20
instant leave it to him is the. Yeah, let him let my advisors
49:24
and. And generally when you go, it's
49:26
got so much wisdom and they'll say something and you'll be
49:29
like, you know what that actually relates.
49:30
Have you met? To my head I have, I have, I
49:33
have and. And every time you meet him, he
49:36
always gives the walls for the people living in the West and he
49:39
appreciates the challenges that people in the West face may not
49:43
be faced by people of the East. And he gives us loads of the
49:46
walls and I think that's that's really beautiful to see from him
49:50
and how he appreciates us holding onto our faith and our
49:54
religion. In in by leading the best.
49:57
Prolong his life, I mean. Thank you so much for joining us
50:03
and for blessing us with your wisdom.
50:05
Absolute pleasure. Thank you so much.
50:06
You proved you proved yourself wrong and you proved me right.
50:09
You are martial like eloquent. And you are well, you are.
50:13
You're an example of eloquence, Martial Law.
50:14
For you I. Think you're being too kind?
50:16
And not at all, but it's been a pleasure to come to the optimal
50:19
report cast. I think yourselves as the host,
50:21
but also the wider team. In the background of doing
50:24
amazing, amazing things and made long, continuing shows.
50:27
Up amazing guests that make it this.
50:29
Like, no, of course, no. I you have, you have amazing
50:31
guests as well. But of course it comes from the
50:34
organizers, the hosts, the producers of the show and a lot
50:37
of the work that goes in the background as well.
50:39
To shout, to shout out to everyone that contributes, like
50:42
I want to support the podcast. Anyone at home.
50:46
We are always here as well. We are continuing to try to work
50:50
hard and we are looking for your support.
50:53
It could be through your suggestions, it could be through
50:55
your support towards the cause and what we're trying to build
50:58
here as well. But whatever you in Sharla want
51:02
to engage with, we are all ears. And Sharla, we always have time
51:05
for you. But before we wrap up, I wanted
51:07
to thank you again me, I'll last ones, I continued.
51:08
You got grant, you knowledge, risk and the opportunity to
51:11
continue to visit communities to learn more and to also educate
51:14
more in Charla. Hopefully we'll have you on
51:17
again. I'm meaning Sharla.
51:18
Thank you, be an honor. Thank you so much, Senna.
51:21
Anything that? Nothing to add apart from I
51:23
think keep your thinking hats on.
51:25
You know, like be in that critical mindset and ask the
51:28
right questions and then Sharla, you get the right answers.
51:30
But I have a question for you wherever you're watching or
51:32
listening is have you booked your urban NZR tickets?
51:35
If not, and you haven't had the opportunity to do so, now is the
51:39
time and sha Allah and pray for us that we can all be there.
51:42
I thought you'd say have. Decided to shrine of the mother
51:44
for saying. But more importantly, do
51:47
subscribe to the podcast, give us a like sent and leave us a
51:49
comment. Us Salaamwalekum What?
51:51
Ahmat Allah here.