Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / JFK Assassination - Ep. 277 - Overt & Covert...Files And Follies

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JFK Assassination - Ep. 277 - Overt & Covert...Files And Follies · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

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Here is movie and Joby Jobs and the movie famous for Me and Joby,
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the long dramas Why Dies, the Mom and Joby job and the Floras and
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Joby, the long dramas White guys in gramany years only thinking. The chair
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in the no comment sime gize and you we do because of the unfortunate incidents
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which occurred here during the visit of ambassador, students and people everywhere in the
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world would be hypercritical of by behavior. Nothing must occur that is disrespectful or
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degrading to the President of the United States, entitled to the highest respect of
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bottle and the law enforcement agencies in this area are going to do everything within
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their power to ensure that no on tooy accident or incident occurs. We would
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take immediate action if any suspicious conduct is observed. And we all saw heard
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all good citizens to be alert for such conduct. And here we go.
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What's up, everybody, Welcome to the show. This is episode number two
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hundred and seventy seven Overt and covert Files and Follies. And the voice you
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just heard was the voice of Chief of Police Jesse Curry and his plea to
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the citizens of Dallas before the president's arrival. I'm sure he wishes he could
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probably take a couple of those words back about the whole accidents and incidents thing,
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uh, because he didn't really fare too well there. But we'll get
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into it, I promise. Uh. So before we do, I just
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want to welcome my co host Joe. Good evening. Mm hmm joey uh
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side swite Berelli why sides, Oh I got it, scooters sky side.
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Yes he was. He was in a little bit of a bender bender today,
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but thankfully he is alive and well and unscathed relatively. Oh yeah,
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oh no, no scars to report. But thank you everyone for joining us
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on this Friday evening. Hopefully it is warmer where you are than about freezing
2:52
where I am up in the Northeast. All right, so Joe, before
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we get started today, let's say hello to all of our friends out here.
3:04
We want to thank John for his super chat. He can't join us
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tonight, but he's here in spirit. Colleen is in the house. South
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to West is in the house, Colleen South, Hello, mister Paul is
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in the house. Bungled is in the house. Ev is in the house,
3:24
and ev is cold and gosh, darn it. Thank you, Paul,
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you are the man. Earl Robert and smoking Joe. That's right,
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smoking Joe Frazier. Hopefully Joe hasn't been smoking this evening and can coherently put
3:43
some sentences together for everyone. Colleen said, it is wretched in Oregon.
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Joe, how what is the temperature in fahrenheit in Oregon where you are?
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And I would like to know what it is in Celsi it's Colleen, please
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m h. Yeah, we're getting a little rain here, Joe. It's
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a little rainy and cold and uh but hey, I'm inside, so it
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doesn't FaZe me. I can just hear tip tap tipper in on the window
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back there, and I like your JFK picture. You like that. I
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love it. Yeah, I'm smoking a big fat blunt or cigar, whatever
4:33
you want to call it. I think he was known to partake there every
4:39
once in a while with his side boo booze multimor booze plural. Yeah.
4:50
So I came across some interesting stuff Joe about Jesse Curry, so I wanted
4:57
to dive into him a little bit more because I realized that I really don't
5:00
know too much about the man himself, you know, he's often Yeah,
5:06
I mean, had he had a rough time there, man. I mean,
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you lose the president of the United States in your city, right,
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and then you let the suspect of the killer of the president in your city
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get shot in the basement of your building. I mean, it doesn't get
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any rougher than that, does It doesn't. No, not really, It's
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not something you want to brag about in your memoirs, in your autobiography.
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Yeah. Well, thankfully he didn't write one, but he did write a
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book about the jfk assassination files that he had, and there were some quite
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interesting things that showed up in that book that nobody had ever seen before.
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And that book may or may not have been added to our Secret Book Depository
5:59
over on local If you would like to access it and get a key to
6:05
get into building over there, feel free to run over there and become a
6:10
supporter and check out our TSBD. That's the Secret Book Depository over at Locals.
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And I believe we should probably tell him this off to jump Joe,
6:20
since they can make some plans. Immediately after this show, Joe and I
6:30
will be going over to Locals and doing a live stream and it is going
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to be sauce, if you know what I'm saying, because somebody went and
6:43
pissed me off again, and what I want to say I can't say here
6:49
or else. Yeah, let's just it wouldn't be good. So we're gonna
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immediately after the show, we are going to go over to locals and we
6:59
are going to do live stream over there, So please join us. You
7:02
don't have to be a supporter over there. It's gonna be free for everybody,
7:08
So please come over and check it out if you're interested. If not,
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we get it. It's something new that we wanted to try over there.
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We have enough bandwidth right now to do like one live stream a month,
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so we figured we've been wanting to do a show where we just murdered
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and ripped apart the new documentary jfk X, and we're going to be doing
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that as well over there this evening, among other things. So check it
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out if you would like. I just wanted to throw that out there so
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everybody can plan their evening accordingly. Yes, it should be fun and it
7:46
is definitely an experiment. It's gonna be our first time trying this, so
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there's your advance warning that technical difficulties might occur, they may ensue, probably
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will, but as usual we will. Yeah. Oh, Collegen's thirty seven
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degrees and atmospheric river. That doesn't sound good. I saw that thirty seven.
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Now that's you have to keep in mind. She's three hours. It's
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four o'clock there, right, it's not seven o'clock. I think it is
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here on the East coast. This is true, Joe. I'm glad you
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paid attention in school and learned the time zones for the United States. That's
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very good. Ev Have you any of you guys seen the Richard link Ladder
8:43
film from the early nineties called Slacker, one of the j one of the
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characters of the JFK Conspiracy Free. I have seen the movie, but it's
8:50
been a very long time, and I don't remember that. But maybe it
8:56
was Fred Litwin when he was a younger, dude. I have to check
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it out. Uh yeah, I remember that. Uh that was a pretty
9:05
good movie, probably back then along the lines of singles and uh some other
9:09
good stuff back in the early grunge days. Uh before my time. Yes,
9:18
bumble, somebody is getting it and uh h yeah, who We'll just
9:26
leave it there. Huh, who's that who We're going to do the live
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stream about after this? Oh okay, yeah, they're gonna get it better
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believe it. We're gonna bring the heat. He might know. Yeah,
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we uh we we didn't want to waste your time on jfk X because on
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YouTube. So it's just it's so ridiculous, Like seriously, it's the most
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ridiculous thing that I've ever we watched concerning the jfk assassination. And I've seen
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and heard a lot of dumb stuff, like just straight out stupid dumb stuff,
10:11
lies, you name it, but this one takes the cake. You're
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not gonna want to miss it, all right, So let's get right into
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Hey, what's up Jack? Jack is in the house. You're late,
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That's okay, we'll let you in. No late feed brother Wind's up in
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the house. What's up? One? Let's see the only uh yeah,
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a couple after the fact. They were in definitely in a cover cover your
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ass mode, shall we say. But we're gonna get into it, I
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promise, because Jesse Curry is a very interesting fellow, and you know,
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you think about who this dude was, and I can only imagine the kind
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of pressure that he was under that weekend. You know, as soon as
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this thing happened, it was it was on. You know, it was
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crazy. So I came across a very very long article all about Jesse Currybay
11:28
Robert Wilonski, and this is from nineteen ninety eight, and I'm not gonna
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read the whole thing. I do have stuff highlighted, I promise, But
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he was able to interview Jean Curry, who was Jesse Curry's son, who
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provided a lot of insight about his dad and his past and how he came
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to be in that position in Dallas that day. So it's very interesting stuff.
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So we'll start off with the stories would circulate later that when Chief Curry
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found out Ruby had gunned down Oswald in the basement of police headquarters, his
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headquarters, he broke down and cried and blamed himself and his men for the
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tragedy. In front of those reporters, he looked like a beaten man.
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And you know, if you go look up Jesse Currle on YouTube and watch
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some of his interviews after Oswald is killed, he does look freaking miserable and
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rob one second, Yeah, I just uh, I just want to show.
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Not every did you show up to show this, Not every DPD cop
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was corrupt. We are not saying that. Yeah, no, no,
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no, So we want to make that clear. We're a couple. I
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think it's probable, but there were some Judy Baker's on the police force,
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believe me. Yeah, and there and there's a you know, difference that
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being corrupt and making money after the fact, right, and also covering up
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your deficiencies after the fact, because they had some that weekend. So not
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long after Oswald's assassination, Curry was hospitalized because of stress, and in nineteen
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sixty six he took an early retirement from the police force under doctor's orders.
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He would go to his death in nineteen eighty insisting that he was a happy
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man, but one always haunted by the deaths of John Kennedy and Lee Harvey
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Oswald. So when I was talking about Gene his son Jean Curry, it
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says Gene never really kept any of his father's old letters or any other souvenirs
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related to Kennedy or Oswald, and he doesn't read assassination books. He only
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owns one video about the events of November sixty three, and that's a PBS
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series that features some footage of his father. He doesn't waste time reading books
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to deal with conspiracies, books to portray his father as the dotting local Yokul
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police chief who let the crime of the century collapse beneath his feet. No,
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no, no, that is not what Jane does. He keeps a
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scrap book. It's filled with photos of his father as a high school football
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hero, a pilot in the Army Air Corps, rookie cop, a plane
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clothes detective who looks as though he's just stepped off the silver screen. And
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this is the man that he chooses to remember as his father. So back
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in ninety eight, Gary Max said, you know, nobody ever asked about
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Chief Curry. He says, it's sad because nobody really cares about him.
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He's an important figure, but nobody seems to realize it. He's known as
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the police chief who let the President leave Dallas in a pine box, as
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the man who let Jack Ruby kill Oswald in his own building. And this
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is how most people remember Chief Curry. And according to James Hosty in his
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book Assignment Oswald, Hosty says that Curry and the Dallas police were so ashamed
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of the Oswald murder on their watch, that they decided to cover up the
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truth about how Ruby got into the basement. When we think about that,
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Joe, that's coming from Hosty host Hosty another CYA number one candidate. But
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oh yeah, you have to you know, and it's kind of impossible to
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tell, like what the relationship was between Hosty and Curry, say, because
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you know, he not good, right, he worked for the DPD.
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But at the end of the day, the FBI and you know, later
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Secret Service and other much bigger agents ease were pulling rank. So you gotta
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take statements against each other, but you know, with a little grain assault
16:10
in my opinion, and we'll get into that later because there's some correlation to
16:15
some of what we're both going to talk about. Yeah, so when it
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comes to the FBI, Curry did make statements two reporters and possibly even on
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television news about the FBI not letting him know about Oswald. He said if
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he would have known about Oswald and any other trouble makers that were in Dallas
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at the time, that he would have been sitting on their laps. But
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the FBI failed to notify the Dallas police about Oswald and several other people.
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So your service too. Yeah, a little bit about the man. Jesse
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Curry himself. He never wanted to be a cop, not on his purview,
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not on his list, and didn't want to be you know. It
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wasn't a little kid I said, when I grow up, I want to
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be a cop. No, that's not Jesse Curry. He was quite literally
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the son of a preacher man right. He moved to Dallas with his family
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a few months after Jesse was born on October third, nineteen and thirteen.
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His father actually served as a police officer, but his tenure was very short
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lived. He then entered the seminary and became an ordained Baptist minister. Baby
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for a while Baptist, Baptist. I just just said Baptist. I'm sorry,
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that's all right. For a while, young went Young Jesse. He
18:00
wanted to go into his uncle Roy's trucking business. Old uncle Roy. He
18:06
even dropped out of high school from Crozier Tech, who a lot of these
18:10
Dallas centric players went to to work for him. He did this despite the
18:15
fact that he was a football star in all district tackle who led his team
18:19
to the state finals. So dude was a beast on the field. Wow
18:26
and that three Oh, so that rules out him being mac Wallace's teammate and
18:33
on the football team. Yeah, probably so. But he wrecked one of
18:41
Roy's trucks, his son, Jean said, And my uncle always gave Dad
18:45
the worst jobs to encourage him to go back to school and discourage him from
18:52
being a truck driver. And it worked, okay. It was a Crozier
18:56
tech that Jesse met a woman who would eventually become his first wife and Jean's
19:03
mother. After graduating from high school in nineteen thirty three, Jesse briefly studied
19:08
optometry. Joe, he was I could have been an eye doctor, an
19:14
eye doctor. He then went into the dry cleaning business as a pants presser.
19:22
Gott to wrinkle in your pants, Jesse, Curry can get it out
19:26
for you. Need your pants extended for Jumbo, and just Curry can do
19:32
it for you. Hey, just just spread them, let me get your
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in seem Joe. It was a job he didn't much like, perhaps because
19:41
he was not very good at it. He just couldn't press those pants clean
19:47
enough. Doug Campbell would be highly disappointed. I would like everyone to know
19:52
Doug Campbell was a noted proprietor and supporter of ironing his T shirts. Folks,
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that's right, you heard it here first. Thank you, Colonel Rev.
20:07
Very much. Oh yes, thank you so. And yes he told
20:15
me that, and I told him I respect that a lot. Actually,
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yes, it's a very patient man who irons his T shirts, I tell
20:22
you, and boxer short and socks. But I digress. Okay uh.
20:33
In the spring of nineteen thirty six, he found out the Dallas Police were
20:36
hiring some temporary officers because of the one hundredth anniversary celebration of the Texas Centennial.
20:45
Okay so. In May one, nineteen thirty six, he joined the
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Forest as part of the so called Texas for which he drew a paycheck of
20:56
ninety dollars a month Joe wopping ninety dollars a month, which beat the hell
21:00
out of the money he was making it the dry cleaners, though he was
21:03
asked to steal on today. Huh, that's nine hundred a month today,
21:07
I mean nothing. Well, that's kind of something to sneeze that. That's
21:15
a little low for a police officer these days. Oh well, yeah,
21:18
I thought you said it was a side check. No, oh, that
21:22
was a game. Check Okay, yeah. He was asked to stay on
21:26
with the force after the centennial, though his son says that Jesse was not
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the kind of man who fantasized about wearing a gun and a badge. He
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joined the Force to earn a living, and then he kind of grew into
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it. Jesse became, in the end, a career cop not long after
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Jean was born, and in nineteen thirty seven, Jesse was assigned to the
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Motorcycle division, making a whopping one hundred and fifty a month. Joe,
21:51
he got a raise, and he got to ride a motorcycle, where he
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became known as something of a daredevil. In nineteen thirty nine, while answering
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a shooting call, Curry crashed his bike into the side of an escaping felon's
22:07
car, breaking a finger on his left hand and damaging his spinal column.
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One family member says to Curry, lying in the street, unable to get
22:22
up, bruised and bloodied, held his gun on the robbers until backup arrived.
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If you can picture that in your head, Wow, I didn't know
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you. Stay right there, boy, I'm telling you, don't I shoot
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you. I got one good finger. He never rode a motorcycle again.
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Oh no, no, no, he did not. Well, it's just
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you just hold on. We'll get too far ahead of me. There,
22:51
Joe's get there. We'll got there. He did, however, start rolling
22:56
in a car after this. Another time he chased a bank robber to his
23:00
second floor of a building and then jumped out the window to catch him,
23:06
and he ended up breaking both of his ankles. I mean, that's that's
23:14
rough man. He is worse luck than I do. I mean that that
23:18
puts you in a wheelchair for sure. I mean you can't walk with two
23:19
you can't even crutch it with two broken ankles. You're screwed. Yeah,
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you got no mobility. I can see him now in like an old ass
23:33
wooden wheelchair, all squeaky and squeaky. I haven't I can't testify for the
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ankle breaking, but a you probably don't know this. I did break my
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leg twice, same leg, once when I was shocked. Once when I
23:48
was six. So here's my shock's face. On September the ninth, nineteen
23:56
and forty two, in the midst of World War Two, Jesse Curry was
24:00
granted a leave of absence from the force to join the Army Air Corps as
24:04
an enlisted reserve, which Curry told the Warrant Commission in sixty four was open
24:10
to people who were over combat age to serve in the Air Force, but
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the Army disbanded the Air Corps less than a year after Curry joined, claiming
24:18
it had too many pilots. Curry flew and he loved it in fact,
24:25
but never got the chance to fly overseas, only getting as far as Meecham
24:29
Field in Fort Worth. The Army offered the members of the Air Corps the
24:34
chance to fight as foot soldiers or return to their previous jobs. Curry accepted
24:40
the latter, and in July of nineteen forty three, he received his honorable
24:44
discharge and returned to the Dallas Police Force. Good decision, yeah, and
24:51
not going either the Pacific or Normandy. Yeah, watch out for that bomb.
24:57
In August to forty five, two years later, Curry was sent by
25:02
the force to the prestigious Joe Northwestern University Traffic Institute in Evanston, Illinois.
25:12
This was a police college where the department's better men went to receive advanced training
25:21
in traffic control and accident prevention. It was here that he realized his police
25:30
job was no longer a temporary one. Return. Yeah, traffic, That
25:37
can't mean that, that's what it means. It actually means that, See,
25:44
Joe, back in the day, cops used to really be involved in
25:48
traffic and traffic control because I think a lot of these you know light I
25:52
don't think traffic lights were a big thing yet, and uh, you know,
25:57
signs were probably scared and a lot of you know cops come on,
26:03
Yeah, her a lot of that going on. I think, yeah,
26:10
Yeah, they didn't even outlaw drinking and driving until like the seventies or eighties.
26:14
And I saw that seat belts, yeah exactly. Everyone was pissed that
26:18
they like stopped letting him do that. So, yeah, can only imagine
26:23
sorry, right sor right. It was here that he realized his police job
26:29
was no longer a temporary one. Curry returned to Dallas as an invaluable officer,
26:33
somewhat educated in the ways of law enforcement. He also returned with a
26:40
boo, a new boo Joe Bessie B. Wilhelm, who worked at the
26:45
college and became the woman for whom he left his first wife. They just
26:51
fell in love, says Jeanne, who admits he was devastated by his father's
26:55
decision to divorce his mother. Then, in nineteen forty six, Curry advanced
27:00
to the rank of lieutenant. He assumed command. I'm sorry, I just
27:06
had an image pop in my head and from the movie Bad Lieutenant. No.
27:08
I was just I would just think I was just laughing because it's like
27:14
like get a gumar, which is the Italian word for mistress. Yes,
27:19
and then get promoted. Those were like back to back lot and divorce was
27:26
very frowned upon back then and rare. Yeah. I mean, I don't
27:30
know Baptist wise, but I'm guessing yeah, Daddy probably wouldn't happy, but
27:37
you know, let's see. Uh. Yeah. He advanced to the rank
27:45
of lieutenant, and then he assumed command of the Motorcycle Division Joe for less
27:52
than a year, and then he also worked as a plane clothes detective in
27:55
the vice squad. Gene recalls that he'd often go to work with his father,
28:03
especially on the weekends when Jesse had custody of his son. Jean talks
28:07
with great affection about the afternoons they spent together chasing bank robbers and bootleggers,
28:14
he said, nowadays that wouldn't be allowed. Can you imagine? And Jeane
28:17
laughs, But if I wanted to see him and he was working, that's
28:19
how it happened. That's great. So could you imagine toting your like ten
28:26
year old kid around chasing bank robbers and bootleggers hang on by? That's crazy.
28:33
It reminds me of a scene in the Wire close to your area where
28:41
McNulty brought in Omar and he's like, sorry, I have the kids tonight,
28:45
and like the kids were like looking each other, like what's going on
28:48
here, and like, yeah, it's absolutely crazy. So at different times,
28:55
sir, different Yeah, definitely different times. In nineteen forty eight,
28:59
Jesse was from moted to captain and reassigned to the Traffic Division shortly excuse me.
29:04
Shortly after that, he was moved to the dpd's training school, and
29:10
despite a degenerative back condition that caused him enormous pain, Curry continued in law
29:15
enforcement, and in nineteen fifty one was sent to Washington to attend the FBI's
29:22
National Academy, where he, in essence, learned how to become a leader,
29:27
but not how to keep his mouth shut. No Dallas police officer had
29:33
ever before been sent to both Northwestern and the FBI Academy, and what would
29:38
prove years later a most ironic footnote. FBI Director jay At Gore Hoover sent
29:42
Dallas Chief of current Dallas Chief of Police Carl Hanson a personal note upon Curry's
29:49
graduation from the FBI Academy on November sixteenth, nineteen fifty one, that concluded,
29:56
you may be assured that we were very pleased to have Captain Curry with
30:00
us. Twelve years later, however, Hoover would go out of his way
30:03
to make sure Curry paid for the sin of allowing Lee Harvey Oswald to be
30:08
murdered on his watch. But back to nineteen fifty one, Folks, Curry
30:15
was promoted to inspector and assigned to head the department's training facilities, and just
30:19
two years later, Hanson tapped him to become the assistant Chief of Police,
30:23
Hanson's quote right hand man as city manager Elgin Krule would later refer to him.
30:30
In seventeen years, Curry had gone from being a part timer in need
30:34
of a paycheck to part of Hanson's inner circle. When Hanson stepped down as
30:41
chief On January the twentieth, nineteen sixty after fifteen years in the position,
30:47
Curry was chosen as his success for Success for successor Success War. I don't
30:53
know where I get through an F in there, but good Lord out tied
31:00
Yeah say nothing. There was another T shirt something called karma. Yeah.
31:07
Curry grew more secure with his leadership role after September sixth, nineteen sixty one,
31:14
when Dallas Public schools were desegregated without a hint of violence. Indeed,
31:19
things went so well. President Kennedy called Dallas a dramatic demonstration of law and
31:26
order prevailing responsible, level headed leadership, welding a whole community together to solve
31:33
a difficult problem in race relations. In nineteen sixty two, Jesse Curry and
31:42
Glenn King, who served as Curry's administrative assistant and as Dallas Police chief from
31:48
seventy nine to eighty two, they wrote a book together Joe. It's called
31:52
Race, Tensions and Police. The book offered a blueprint on how law enforcement
31:57
agencies could prevent and disarm the quote racial strings that characterize America in its communities.
32:06
It was basically a book about how to de sagregate. You know your
32:09
schools and intermingle and all that. So that's pretty cool. You know that
32:15
they actually wrote a book about that in nineteen sixty two. I did not
32:19
know that. Did not know that. Neither did I, sir. And
32:24
of course everyone knows the story of Jesse Curry on November the twenty second,
32:29
nineteen sixty three, but if you don't, Jesse Curry was in the lead
32:35
car of the motorcade that day, right with Sheriff Bill Decker. I believe
32:43
who was it for Sorels and somebody else? I can't remember who. I'm
32:49
sure somebody will and what what? And what car the lead the lead car,
32:58
the car in front of everybody else can So they're in the car,
33:08
they're going through Dailey Plaza and Jesse Curry. The shooting happens, and Jesse
33:14
Curry gets on the police radio in the car, the league car, and
33:16
he says, get a man on top of that triple underpass and see what
33:21
happened up there. Once Kennedy's death was confirmed, Curry took personal charge of
33:30
Lendon Johnson's security, escorting the Vice President to love Field, where US District
33:35
Judge Sarah T. Hughes swore him in as President. Curry remained on board
33:39
Air Force one for the brief ceremony, but it was anxious to get back
33:43
to City Hall to see just what in God's name was going on, what
33:47
in tarnation's going on on here, because at that point he had heard that
33:52
JD. Tippett had been killed, Oswood had been caught, and all hell's
33:57
breaking loose. So yeah, very troubling times for mister Curry. And uh,
34:06
fun fact, Joe m h I loved I learned. I was today
34:12
years old when I learned that Jesse Curry kept John Connolly's blood covered hat,
34:23
stetson hat in his office on a coat rack to remind him of that day.
34:37
Okay, So that's interesting because if he had, say, you know,
34:45
some regret and how that day went down, was that something to remind
34:50
him of how he possibly screwed up to make him do better or that's the
34:55
idea was there was there a pride thing in it, like maybe Conna he
35:04
you know, Connely was the governor of Texas, right, and maybe,
35:07
as you pointed out during your long list of his accomplishments, I can guarantee
35:14
you they probably met a few times before that. Yeah, because I believe
35:20
when the Secret Service were kind of buttoning up the limousine, I think Connley
35:25
left his hat in the car and they handed it to one of the Dallas
35:30
police officers there and they didn't know what to do with it, so they
35:34
eventually worked his way up to Curry and he kept it in his office on
35:37
a code wreck crazy. It's a weird relic and I wonder if what Gene
35:44
has it now? Yeah. Well, also at the sixth Floor Museum they
35:50
have Jesse Curry's chief police badge from nineteen sixty three. You know, his
35:58
leather fold out whip him out bronze with his picture adde and everything on that.
36:02
That's pretty cool. Wow. Uh, Tiny Dancer says Hi and had
36:08
a question, Uh, once you throw it up on the screen, Joe,
36:15
I am, Well, first of all we had was a Buddy Walter
36:17
Walter and the other the other person in the follow up car, Uh,
36:23
it might have been I don't know. I think it might have been somebody
36:27
more important than Buddy Walter though. And there's a lot of swinging dicks in
36:30
that in their league car and Tiny Dancer ass have either of you seen Jude
36:38
Noswalt in the interview where she recalled federal agents accompanying them throughout their years.
36:45
This went all the way until their college years. That I have not seen
36:50
that that would be very interesting. You know, we've covered our previous episodes
36:57
how some of the protective custody, some of the surveillance on Marina, and
37:05
of course Bill Sippitch has wrote as a lawyer on how the case she probably
37:10
and her daughters probably still have against the FBI. So I don't know federal
37:19
agents. I don't know what you mean in terms of which agency, but
37:23
yeah, I could definitely see that being a conditioned I mean, you know,
37:31
at pease in a sense. Right, Yeah, it's not out of
37:36
the question to me. I have not seen it, but my initial thoughts.
37:43
And here is a typical letter that Jesse Curry would receive after the assassination
37:47
being chief of police. There was one in particular from Pennsylvania that he kept
37:54
and framed and it read, I wish you all to have the most pathetical
38:00
you can find. May your city start sinking in all directions, and may
38:04
they hate that spread ours our beloved President's blood on your dirty streets. Give
38:13
you all kinds of diseases and unhappiness, go to hell all of you.
38:22
Wow, well brutal, you're gonna get those uh those type of comments.
38:29
Right, oh yeah, but not only that, Joe, Listen to what
38:34
they did to the man. Shortly after Oswald's death, three French journalists broke
38:43
into Jesse Curry's home and threatened to beat him to death if he didn't tell
38:47
them everything he knew about the conspiracy to kill the president. Wait, you
38:53
said, journalists. Yeah, Three French journalists broke into Jesse Curry's house and
39:00
threatened to beat him to death if he didn't tell them everything he knew about
39:02
the conspiracy to kill the president. That sounds very journalistic. Like his son,
39:08
Jean says that he found out where the journalists were staying and took a
39:13
shotgun, went to their hotel room and raised hell, trying to get them
39:17
to come outside. He says, I was a little hot headed, recalls
39:22
Jane. I was too young to have any sense. I was in my
39:24
twenties. So he was gonna shoot him, shoot him up, Texas shotgun
39:31
style. Take that frenchy stick that in your croissant and smoke it. Quassant
39:40
quaissant. Gotta do it every time. Uh. Four months later, Curry
39:46
was admitted to the hospital for underclosed undisclosed tests attended. The distress of the
39:52
assassinations and the ensuing investigation had been too much into bear. Jean says his
39:59
father likely entered the hospital because of illness and exhaustion. He had high blood
40:02
pressure and diabetes, and Jesse Curry's father had died in an early age of
40:07
fifty three from some of the same diseases. But in August of sixty four,
40:14
Curry admitted to Jim Yule of The Morning News that I wake up every
40:19
now and then at two and three in the morning thinking about Kennedy, Oswald
40:22
and Ruby, and I can't go back to sleep, he says. I
40:27
suppose it will haunt me to my dying day. Brutal man. Yeah,
40:37
you got to think of the people it affected and their lives that were changed
40:44
forever because of those you know, a few seconds, right, and just
40:50
where they were during and what position they were holding during that period. And
41:00
it's a you know, I think he was definitely, especially if you consider
41:08
he did go to FBI training school, was you know, the investigation was
41:15
taken over by the FBI, right, So I guess he felt in some
41:22
way he couldn't do as much. But I mean that was after at that
41:28
point Oswald's diad, Tippets dead, Ruby's in custody. I mean, this
41:32
is what it is at that point. And one thing I found interesting I
41:37
wanted to add is as you were listing all of like his different he was
41:42
in the traffic division, he went to this school, he went to that
41:45
school, and like kept rising. Right. Yeah, a few episodes ago
41:51
we talked about JD. Tippett, who was in the force for what eleven
41:54
twelve years that around that time and not being promoted. And I think we
42:00
had a negative comment because we called them a dullard. But that's kind of
42:05
what we mean in terms of like if if you have a couple of brain
42:12
cells, you're gonna get promoted over those course of time, over that you
42:16
know, long of a time. And you know JD. Tippett was in
42:20
the airborne, right, we had talked about that, so you know,
42:24
they're very well could have been some screws loose and you know, and maybe
42:30
that would have been the perfect guy to you know, make the fall,
42:34
you know, have be the fall guy as compared to you know, someone
42:38
that is a rising star, so to say, right at least before sixty
42:44
three, so just love to Yeah. So let's move up to February seventeenth,
42:53
nineteen and sixty six, when Chief Curry wrote his letter of writing Nation
43:00
that he was leaving the force upon the advice of my physician. My doctor
43:05
informs me that the continued pressures and tensions of the office have caused my blood
43:08
pressure to be affected, and we can't have that. So I must extend
43:15
my deep appreciation from my staff and being so loyal and cooperative. In October
43:23
of sixty eight, he then took a full time position as headed security for
43:27
Texas Bank and Trust Company, which he held for another eight years, which
43:32
takes us to nineteen seventy six. Okay, Now, Curry died in nineteen
43:38
eighty, but the period from seventy five to eighty is kind of interesting,
43:45
as you will see coming up here in just a second. So in September
43:51
of seventy eight, not long after the House of Representatives opened to yet another
43:54
set of hearings about the Kennedy assassination, Jesse Curry was driving near Greenville Avenue
44:00
and Lover's Lane Joe when he suffered stroke. He suffered stroke, and he
44:07
crashed into a fire hydrant and a telephone pole, and his car tumbled and
44:14
toppled one hundred feet away in a parking lot. Damn, that's crucial.
44:24
He was going fast. Yeah, to go one hundred feet. I mean
44:29
you hit a fire hydrant and a telephone pole. You're getting pinballed around inside
44:34
that car like a mofo. I mean, yeah, you're coming to us
44:39
close to a dead stop. Wow. Uh man boy, His friends Fred
44:51
Hollis and Jim Mules said then, in the years after the assassinations until his
44:54
death, career had begun to drink heavily to excess, Hollis claims, though
45:00
Yule says that he masked it pretty well. Jeane says that this just isn't
45:05
true. Sure, his father became melancholy every now and then, but to
45:08
attribute that to the assassination or age, I don't know. Jesse Curry died
45:14
less than two years after the accident, on Jeane twenty third, nineteen eighty
45:17
and for a man who had been the center of such chaos, his was
45:21
a peaceful death. So how did Curry die? This is really weird,
45:29
Okay. The night he died was really strange. Jean recalled. He called
45:36
over to my house on the phone, and all the kids were there.
45:39
He talked to me, then my wife, and then my children one by
45:44
one on the phone. He never did that. Never he tells my wife
45:51
or he tells his wife b after the phone call that he's going in the
45:55
bedroom to work on a crossword puzzle. And he laid down on the bed
46:00
and died. Pretty weird, huh. It's almost like he had a premonition,
46:10
like he knew he was going to die. So he called his his
46:15
kid and his grandkids and talked to them, told his wife, Hey,
46:19
I'm going to work on a crossword puzzle, honey, I'll be in the
46:21
bedroom. And then just don't I'm not laughing at that. I was going
46:29
to make a joke, but I don't know if that many people would get
46:31
it. But maybe he got a download. Uh but uh that is yeah,
46:39
uh the amount. So he survived that crash, Oh yeah, yeah,
46:47
he survived the crash, lived another two years after the stroke and everything
46:52
else. But you know, apparently it took a toll on uh there in
46:55
his last two years. But for some he led such a crazy and chaotic
47:01
life to come to an endgies like that and be instantly peaceful. You know,
47:07
bam, It's pretty crazy. So, six months after Curry's death,
47:15
documents were released revealing the jag or Hoover never forgot Curry's allegations. Okay,
47:22
that the FBI knew about Oswald being in Dallas and did nothing to prevent him
47:27
from killing Kennedy. So that's what Jesse Curry said on live television. Hoover
47:34
was pissed. Hoover conducted a vendetta against the Dallas Police because of Curry's remarks,
47:39
disallowing any Dallas Police officers from attending the very same FBI training academy that
47:46
Curry himself had once attended. He wrote a letter to Special Agents Shanklin instructing
47:52
him to quote deal at arm's length with the Dallas Police Department personnel. So,
48:01
wow, talk to the hand DPD, Go f yourself, DPD.
48:07
We're the f freaking BI. Shanklin is coming up a lot in some of
48:15
my research, and that is, uh, that is very interesting. Wow.
48:22
Yeah, So now I'm gonna I'm going to read you not all,
48:29
but there's a BBC interview that I did not know he did. In March
48:34
of nineteen seventy five, Jesse Curry did with the bp B BBC right this
48:44
big Oh, I thought BBC stuff for something else. Anyway, it was
48:51
a show called Panorama, I believe it. Yeah, we'll hear more about
48:59
that on the later So the interviewer says, are you suggesting there is still
49:07
an attempt by the FBI and CIA to thwart the authorities and trying to find
49:13
out what actually happened? Gray says, it's difficult to say from which source
49:19
that these attempts to thwart arise. There is no doubt in my mind that
49:23
the agencies of the government were were it not limited to that, It's broader
49:31
than them. Sorry, it's very small type. I do not want an
49:37
investigation to proceed, not necessarily because they are involved in some way with the
49:42
assassination or but it was certainly suggested to me that there was involvement by people
49:51
agencies of government prior and after the assassination in a manner that, if its
49:55
surfaced, would perhaps show some dereliction of responsibility, some conduct that perhaps might
50:02
be hard to explain. For example, why was it that though an alleged
50:08
conversation that Oswald had in Mexico City, which was on tape, never surfaces,
50:15
the tape was destroyed, that it lately appeared that the tape was not
50:20
destroyed until after the assassination of President Kennedy. As those are areas that are
50:24
very delicate, and it doesn't mean an involvement in the assassination. It may
50:29
it may not, but it certainly suggests that something might surface that might be
50:32
too embarrassing for them. And for these reasons and no other, there were
50:37
attempts toward the investigation. So even Jesse Curry knows about the Oswald on tape
50:46
incident that Hoover told Johnson about that the CIA allegedly, you know, taped
50:53
Oswald down there and then somehow Hoover gets hold of the tapes. But he
50:59
said, he tells Johnson then it wasn't Oswald's voice on the tapes, and
51:02
then all of a sudden the tapes come up missing. CIA says they destroyed
51:08
him and taped over him. But that's definitely not the case. So some
51:13
fukery was definitely going on there, and Curry knew it. The interviewer says,
51:22
I wonder if we could perhaps talk about the episode when Oswald purportedly went
51:27
to Mexico. Can you tell me what you found out what happened. Well,
51:31
I think we have to understand it's significance first. Or there is some
51:36
indication that rather than being in Mexico City at a certain time, Oswald may
51:40
have been in Dallas and talking then about the assassination of President Kennedy, and
51:47
also some indication that perhaps he was in the company of a certain CIA agent.
51:53
That is disputed on the basis that Oswald could not have been there,
51:58
or he must have been in Mexico City. And part of the claim that
52:01
he must have been in Mexico City is based on the fact that he allegedly
52:05
had gone into the Cuban embassy and had called at the Russian embassy, and
52:10
there was a wiretap which Oswald picked up in that phone conversation, and that
52:15
become part of the proof showing Oswald could not have been in Dallas and therefore
52:22
was in Mexico City. However, the photographs allegedly of Oswald going into the
52:25
Cuban embassy, as we all know, in fact, were not photographs of
52:30
Oswald at all. Secondly, it turns out that these photographs, even if
52:36
they were of the wrong person. You would expect they would be of a
52:38
person entering the Cuban embassy, but it turns out their photographs of someone entering
52:44
the Russian embassy. And the question raises, how could they mix that up
52:46
so badly when they know what building we're talking about. In addition, when
52:52
we inquire where were the photographs you took of people who entered the Cuban embassy
52:58
on the day in question, we are told that the cameras were not working
53:01
that day. I want to talk to the camera people. I want to
53:07
find out is that true? And that's where we got stopped. In addition,
53:14
an the interviewer interrupts, he says, well, how'd you get stopped?
53:16
So it's interesting that Curry, let's out here that they were investigating whether
53:22
or not os Wald went to Mexico or he was in Dallas, and they're
53:28
trying to figure out and talk to the people in the Cuban embassy and they
53:31
were stopped. So the interviewer says, how did you get stopped? And
53:37
Curry says, well, I never got that far. All hell broke loose
53:43
and the issues got diverted. We had to defend ourselves in terms of attacks
53:49
by the Congress and the press to continue the investigation. But in addition,
53:53
for example, where was the tape conversation itself? Tapes were destroyed to see
53:59
how I said that they had reused that tape prior to the assassination of President
54:05
Kennedy. Yet the FBI has a document stating that some other agents listened to
54:09
the tape after the assassination of President Kennedy and the voice on it was not
54:14
Oswalt's. In addition, the CIA presented a transcript of the tape. We
54:19
had interviewed the typists who typed it up, who said that the transcript presented
54:23
was not in fact what was typed up by whoever it was who spoke on
54:29
that conversation. These are areas that I wanted to get into, and at
54:31
the time I did and started to make it clear that I was going to
54:36
demand the appearances with witnesses, I was going to get their documents. And
54:39
that's when the attacks really reached a crescendo in the Congress, and whatever was
54:44
left just spent really defending ourselves and just trying to get the investigation to continue.
54:52
Crazy stuff, but you know, it goes on and on for like
54:58
ten pages and I'm not gonna I'm not gonna read it all and bore y'all
55:01
to death. But I think it's interesting that this is in nineteen seventy five,
55:08
so this is about the time of the Church Committee. This is pre
55:10
HSCA stuff, right. And then let's fast forward a little bit, Joe
55:17
to nineteen seventy eight with Peter Dale Scott, and we're going to hear an
55:28
interview with Jesse Curry, and it's about a minute and a half long,
55:35
but listen closely. Curry was in the fatal motor key just ahead of the
55:40
President and cannot accept the Warren Commission view that the only shot came from behind.
55:45
I think there's a possibility that one could have come from the fronts.
55:51
We were never We've never been able to prove there, but just in my
55:54
mind and by the direction of a of the bud and bring from the President
56:01
from one of the shots, and it just seen that he would have to
56:07
be fired from the trunk rather than behind. I can't say that I could
56:13
swear that I believe there was one man and one man alone. I think
56:16
that there's a possibility that could have been another man. Curry was Dallas Police
56:21
Chief at the time of the assassination. The first shot approximately right along here.
56:28
Did you you didn't look back at that point, No, I looked
56:30
at her rear view Breau. I see, you've seen the securitior film that
56:36
was taken from up this hill. There's a very distinct head snap where the
56:39
president said his head backwards. It doesn't that suggest that the shot would have
56:45
come from well, wouldn't here to be so? And at the same we
56:50
also had a doctor Malcolm Perry at parked In Hospitals saying that he's out of
56:54
the loom in the President's throat, and there was an entrance to cans,
56:59
which would also suggests that the show had come from the money. I'm not
57:04
saying the shot was not fired from here. I'm saying we haven't found it
57:07
to buy it, we can connect with it. But it does suggest that
57:12
the evidence that we have it has been both cases rather strong evidence that there
57:15
was another assassinate calledge That's right, and that is the voice of Jesse Curry
57:24
pretty much admitting that he's a believer in a conspiracy and more than one shooter
57:30
to kill JFK that day. And this is the man who not only did
57:36
he write a book in nineteen sixty nine, like I mentioned before, but
57:40
you know he was in the know. I mean, this is the chief
57:45
of police at the time, and he had been around, you know,
57:52
police worked for thirty some years at this point when he's had a chief of
57:59
police, and I'm yeah, he knows what a homicide looks like. He
58:05
knows what a shot a victim of a shooting looks like. He knows blood
58:09
spatter patterns, yes, direction, and where bullets come from. And this
58:15
is what his analysis from seeing the limos, seeing his officers who were covered
58:21
in brains and blood, riding behind a limo, seeing this a Pruder film,
58:25
this is his analysis. So I think it's very important to pay attention
58:31
to what Jesse Curry was trying to tell us. And uh, you know
58:38
he was often ridiculed and you know, just held accountable because and blamed for,
58:49
you know, all this stuff happening in his city as he is the
58:52
chief of police. He was not present when Ruby shot Oswald, but Captain
59:00
Fritz was and they had Hoover had sent a memo to Curry, but he
59:06
ever never actually got it in time. And the memo was from Hoover stating
59:12
explicitly to make sure that Oswald nothing happens to Oswald while in their custody.
59:21
And I think that's what pissed off Jaeger Hoover the most, is that something
59:25
did happen to Oswald while in custody. But then again, you know,
59:31
you have the more conspiratorial side. It says everyone's better off if this guy
59:37
does not make it the trial. So that's it, Joe. That's all
59:43
I got about Chief Curry and his importance in this whole thing, and and
59:49
often overlooked in empathetic historical figure. Joe, Yes, definitely. And I
59:57
did not know a lot of a little tidbits, and some of those facts
1:00:02
you mentioned about Curry very interesting and not you know, quite sure where I
1:00:14
land on him, to be honestly, on his face well obviously, but
1:00:20
after after you know some of what you said, so you know, I'm
1:00:24
always keeping my mind open. And what was he put in an impossible situation?
1:00:31
Was he trying to try to redeem himself in some type of way later
1:00:37
in life? And you actually did the perfect segue, Rob because you mentioned
1:00:45
the Church committee, And when did you say he wrote he wrote his book
1:00:47
in seventy eight. No, he wrote his book A sixty nine nine,
1:00:52
yeah, my favorite number, Yes, nineteen sixty nine. Yes, And
1:00:59
so I am uh, I'm sorry going to talk a little bit about I
1:01:12
know the cop on right. No, No, I was pointing at the
1:01:15
comment, oh dead Oswald could yeah by the opto economist, that's a well
1:01:22
financial eye doctor. After the show, why was Hoover so upset or was
1:01:28
he pretending to be upset? This is a follow up question there. Well,
1:01:35
I think he I think Hoover wanted to be able to blame the Dallas
1:01:37
please for any flubbings that were going on here. He was already pissed at
1:01:43
Curry for opening his mouth saying that the FBI didn't let him know about Oswald.
1:01:46
So uh, it was the ship show all around basically. So when
1:01:54
you have books like Curry coming out, this is the perfect segue. You
1:01:59
set me up perfectly for it, even though you might not even have known
1:02:01
it. Rob When books are coming out coming out like that like Curry's,
1:02:07
when you're having the Church Committee, when you're having the HSCA, what do
1:02:15
you think and you're having all these negative articles about the overreaches of the ABC's
1:02:22
the intelligence community in all the newspapers. What do you think you're going to
1:02:27
do if you were, say involved, Well, you know, by the
1:02:37
time Curry started opening his mouth and talking, Hoover was dead. The intelligence
1:02:45
agencies they are getting roasted over the coals for their bull crap they were pulling.
1:02:51
Uh, the FBI, COTAEIL and co intel pro had been exposed from
1:02:54
and all the dirty tricks that they were doing. The CIA specifically, who
1:03:01
were bearing the brunt of a lot of these Oh yeah, yeah, for
1:03:06
sure. But but both both entities that that roasted Curry got their comeuppance eventually.
1:03:15
Mm hmm. You know, he's just a local Yoku chief police.
1:03:19
Couldn't couldn't keep a damn a prisoner alive. I mean, come on now,
1:03:25
m so, I was gonna let you keep going. That's so what
1:03:35
they what the c A does, is they of course form a propaganda operation
1:03:45
a siop, not of the nuclear origins, and you call on one of
1:03:53
your best propagandists, and that is someone by the name of David Attlee Phillips,
1:04:03
the Night Watch twenty five years of pecute, peculiar, your peculiar service,
1:04:13
and I have just started I know there's one. He uses so many
1:04:18
big words. I actually like to look up for this. The the name
1:04:21
of the book again, pecute, pecute, pacute? What is it?
1:04:27
Stop pecute? You're tongue tied and you're just fucking with me. So anyways,
1:04:35
so this book, this is actually a first edition copy that came out
1:04:40
in nineteen seventy seven. So you're thinking, right, you know, after
1:04:46
the after the Church Committee, as the HSCA is, you know, kind
1:04:53
of ramping up and getting started. And one of the greatest propagandists that the
1:05:05
CIA had was David Attlee Phillips, major suspect to many in the JFK assassination,
1:05:17
and he wrote this book in major read herring too many yes, and
1:05:27
before he wrote this book, Actually, how I got started on this was
1:05:31
because I had this book just on my bookshelf and I had never gotten the
1:05:35
chance to read it, right, because I know it's fictional, right,
1:05:39
fictional, But the best storytellers always have some threads of truth in the stories.
1:05:50
Yes, I believe I called it in the description Joe veiled hyperbole.
1:05:56
Yes, yes, And David Attlee Phillips was one of the best. And
1:06:03
not only did he write this book. He created the Association of Former Intelligence
1:06:15
Officers, a nonprofit foundation alumni association of intelligence officers from all services in it
1:06:33
was nineteen seventy five, right, so that's right around kind of Church Committee,
1:06:39
Territory and Joe. A little known fact about that association, yes,
1:06:45
is they would provide funds for lawyers to those former intelligence officers who got sued
1:06:57
for various things. Wow, you're just killing it on the segways because guess
1:07:04
what happened? And I can actually, I'll go, I'll step back a
1:07:11
second. The reason I picked up this book was because we had a question
1:07:16
when we were discussing the Tresconia Prison in Cuba a few episodes ago of when
1:07:25
did Attlee Phillips cover get blown and have to leave Cuba? And that was
1:07:30
in nineteen sixty actually, and that kind of started me down just the to
1:07:42
find the answer for that question because I didn't have it at the time.
1:07:45
And then I started reading this and it is the first of all. The
1:07:54
forward is written by William E. Colby and for two and a half decades,
1:08:01
David Attlee Phillips stood the Night Watch as an agent in the arcane profession
1:08:08
of espionage. As a CIA officer, he rose to become director of the
1:08:13
Western Hemisphere Division, a post he occupied at the time the Alande government was
1:08:21
overthrown in Chile. He was also involved in Guatemala with Morales as well,
1:08:32
and was also World War Two. Was Obamader was shot down and prisoned in
1:08:39
a pow camp and what did he do? He escaped, which was kind
1:08:44
of gangster, and then bought a newspaper in Chile. Interesting and essentially the
1:08:55
preface ends with I am talking about all the sometimes humorous, always fascinating implications
1:09:10
and stories, but you know they don't understand the company. And it really
1:09:19
kind of is a credible like argument of the CI's business may not be particularly
1:09:31
pretty, but it's necessary type of propaganda. And I think post Church committee
1:09:42
around the HSCA that makes a lot of sense. And and this is what
1:09:46
I was going to get to in nineteen Let me see in night real quick,
1:09:55
do why you look for that? Yep? Roger, our music producer,
1:09:59
ap the book. Any of you guys have it? Uh, yeah,
1:10:02
Roger, you might have missed it. At the beginning of the show.
1:10:04
We have it up at our secret book depository. Yeah, Joey's talking
1:10:12
about curry Nut. Oh, I'm sorry, that's okay. I was like,
1:10:17
uh, you know you're the music producer here at the lingam And podcast,
1:10:20
So I'll email you later, Bud, I got it. I got
1:10:26
you, Homie. He had a garage full when he died. Uh that
1:10:31
was like Jim D. Eugenio. Uh in his garage full of books.
1:10:38
But pray continue, I will and uh so uh, I was just laughing
1:10:45
at your comment in my head. And uh, well yeah, because every
1:10:49
time I hear that name. What's your name? What name? Huh John
1:10:58
D D D Angel Oh that guy got that guy? Yeah, his garage
1:11:06
full of books. Yes, yes. So in nineteen there was a nineteen
1:11:15
eighty book called Death in Washington, author by Donald Freed, and Fred Landis
1:11:21
charged that charge the CIA was involved in the nineteen seventy three Chilean coop Tata
1:11:30
and the seventy six assassination of Orlando Literrier Litterrier something like that, and the
1:11:41
author specifically named Phillips is being involved in a cover up of the assassination and
1:11:48
reiterated Phonsie's claim that Phillips served as Oswalt's case officer using the alias Maurice Bishop.
1:12:00
So what did David at least Phillips decided to do well. He decided
1:12:06
to file a lawsuit of two hundred and eighty million against the authors and drove
1:12:20
out a drug out the lawsuit from eighty two to eighty six. You have
1:12:26
to I think the intention there was to, you know, get them to
1:12:33
spend all their money on lawyer's fees, right, because to your point,
1:12:39
you just made probably five ten minutes ago, Rob who was funding a bunch
1:12:44
of these type of law firms, which his was represented by in DC,
1:12:50
the organization that he created that his nonprofit one of them as as a former
1:12:58
intelligence officer, we can hopefully soon and get two hundred and eighty million dollars
1:13:03
and make the fund even bigger. Yeah. And also famously the E.
1:13:14
Howard Hunt deathbed confession also named David attleet Phillips as well, and they were
1:13:25
made to redact and take that part out. So he has a lot of
1:13:36
sway. And like, I mean, two hundred and eighty million, I
1:13:42
mean this is in the eighties, you know what. Yeah, who's hoping
1:13:49
to get a decent settlement. They did settle, They did settle, but
1:13:54
you have to admit it after four years they're probably broke at that point.
1:13:58
They're probably broken mentally, like we're not. I don't know. I don't
1:14:01
know if the book was published or if they actually made that or if they
1:14:05
had to redact it. I'm not sure. But point is they had a
1:14:12
lot of money behind them to discredit any claims. And this goes around your
1:14:17
time period of the Church Committee in the HCA and and when some mister Curry
1:14:25
was making some of his claims right towards towards the end of his life.
1:14:30
This was Hunting. Hunt did the same thing with the funding against the Spotlight
1:14:34
for you know, them claiming he was in Dallas on November twenty second.
1:14:39
Mm hmm. So Hunt sued them using the retired uh intelligence officers fun so
1:14:47
yeah, yeah, and uh yeah no they uh I Apparently Hunt's suns weren't
1:14:56
the let's say cleanness of Fellows. That's just what I read. But that
1:15:14
so I'm going to go through this book because there are some very interesting things,
1:15:19
Like I know, he refers to a lot of people by their pseudonyms
1:15:24
and critonyms, and he even gives E. Howard Hunt credit for calling him
1:15:30
the Night, which was a very epic a pseudonym in the CIA that was
1:15:39
used by a former officer in his book, and he was very appreciative to
1:15:45
Hunt for doing that. So it's very interesting. And like I said before,
1:15:56
in the in the propaganda that is most leave this book, there are
1:16:00
some shreds of food I think in it. I have not read all of
1:16:04
it yet, but I am going to read it and will report back if
1:16:10
I could find anything cool cool deal. Yeah, I think. You know,
1:16:17
there's lots lots have been said about Phillips and Vesiana and that's all been
1:16:24
proven by John Newman to be horseshit. So there's been also been allegations from
1:16:31
like Wynn Johnson about seeing Phillips meet with Oswald in Dallas. And the only
1:16:41
other cooperating witness is Judy Baker, which is not a very good cooperating witness.
1:16:49
So yeah, there's lots of problems with how big of a spook or
1:16:56
how much involvement Phillips had in the Kennedy assassination. You know. But I'm
1:17:02
but I've heard a little bit about this book, and he does make some
1:17:08
veiled hyperbole, uh in the book, and uh, you know, I
1:17:15
believe he also made it like a deathbed call to his brother and supposedly confess
1:17:21
some things as well. But yeah, very interesting stuff, Joe for sure.
1:17:28
Yeah, it's just one of those books you know that you want to
1:17:32
get onto reading and you wish you could. It's pretty thick, and that's
1:17:39
what she said. Yeah, sure, you know, you're doing a lot
1:17:43
of research and it's tough to get to but I think, uh, it
1:17:47
could be a fun project to kind of go. You know. He has
1:17:50
a Chili chapter, Guatemala chapter, a Cuba chapter, a DC chapter,
1:17:59
time after a taco chapter. There was a really good one outside of Building
1:18:04
K which he mentions a few times, which for the people paying attention at
1:18:09
home might mean something to us. And uh yeah, and it is interesting
1:18:15
and I just kind of wanted to touch on on that kind of a cool
1:18:23
little continuation of things that were going around and in that timeframe from Robin Mine's
1:18:30
topics. Yeah, an asteroid that was not Hunt's son, it was Hemming's
1:18:38
son, and uh man, oh Edwin Kayser's son Scott arguing and throwing insults.
1:18:48
Uh yeah, that was quite the show, Just so flum mixed and
1:18:57
perplexed. Sitting in the middle of these two guys just going after each ow
1:19:00
his throats. I just kind of sit back and let him have at it,
1:19:05
you know what I mean? Just like it was a complete and utter
1:19:11
ship show that for sure. I have no idea what what was said.
1:19:16
I don't remember learning anything from it other than never to have those two guys
1:19:21
on the show at the same time ever again. But yeah, it was
1:19:27
fun times, fun times for sure. But that was a funny episode.
1:19:33
Y golly day, Hey Joe, here's a ship. Here is a comment
1:19:43
you may have missed her from sure I can yes here lovely tiny dancer.
1:19:50
Nice. Interesting that Reef paying feels the need for a private line. She
1:19:56
makes it convenient for the FBI to install one of those w h C an
1:20:00
P lines. And what she's referring to is the fact that Ruth's Payne in
1:20:08
her sixth Form Museum Interviewer stayed at the time with Jak's death, she had
1:20:11
a party line. She did she share with four other people, and she
1:20:15
had a private line installed not to not to inconvenience the others. So,
1:20:24
man, she sounds more and more like a swinger every day. A party
1:20:29
line. Why would you share a phone with four or five other people that
1:20:35
uh weird. So like you could be talking to somebody and any one of
1:20:42
those other four or five people that have access to that phone line can just
1:20:45
pick up and listen at any time because they want to. Hey, Ruth,
1:20:49
can you go off the damn phone You've been on like twenty minutes.
1:20:51
I need to call my mom that I am old enough to remember that happening.
1:20:58
So but yeah, I mean, a private line would be similar to
1:21:08
a type of wander years old folks. He just looks really goddamn good.
1:21:13
Yes, thank you. First compliment, you give me fifteen shows, well
1:21:18
for eighty three you do, I mean, you look really good for eighty
1:21:21
three. I will tell you that I talked too soon. But uh har,
1:21:27
why don't we end it rob and try our little experiment here. Yes,
1:21:33
folks, we've got something special for you. We're going to try it
1:21:36
tonight. Head over to the link that is in the description of this show.
1:21:42
Give us a little bit, give us like, what time is it.
1:21:45
It's eight twenty one. We're gonna shoot for eight. Well just turn
1:21:50
eight twenty two, so we're going to shoot for eight thirty over on our
1:21:54
locals page. Just follow the link that's in the description. You don't have
1:21:58
to be a paid supporter. I'm watching. If you want to come hang
1:22:01
out with us and hear us go ham want some folks, feel free to
1:22:08
join us. Thank you again to everybody that has showed up tonight and participated
1:22:14
in the chat and for the superstickers and super chats. We really appreciate it.
1:22:20
And we got something special for you next week. For sure, it's
1:22:26
gonna be ah. We're not gonna be live next week. We are going
1:22:31
to be recorded, but it's for a good reason, I promise, and
1:22:40
but we're gonna put it out next week, so be looking for that.
1:22:43
You're gonna love it, You're gonna enjoy it. It's gonna be crazy.
1:22:45
And yeah, that's right, Roger. I'm hugging or chugging. God damn,
1:22:53
I need glasses chugging a big ass bottle of water tonight, I am.
1:22:57
It was a big ass bottle of silter raspberry lime flavored Seltzer water because
1:23:02
I'm bougie like that. Well, thank you again everyone, and we hope
1:23:11
to see you over there a little in locals in a few minutes and we
1:23:16
will talk to you soon. That's right, folks, because they give us
1:23:23
about five minutes or so, and we will see you over on locals maybe
1:23:30
if we can get it to work. We're really gonna try. Just bear
1:23:35
bear with us, all right, folks, until next time, or see
1:23:44
you on locals in a little bit. Peace piece piece pop pop pop.
1:24:01
That's music's horrible, Roger. We need an outro, all right, Joe
1:24:08
Peace, Yes, Roger Peace. M m hm